Trinities

By Dale TuggySociety & Culture Religion & Spirituality Christianity Philosophy

Trinities episodes

January 12, 2022podcast 343 – Craig’s Contradictory Christ – Part 1
Since 2003 Dr. William Lane Craig has been propounding what he calls his "Neo-Apollinarian" theory as a model of the Incarnation which is contradiction-free. On this take on traditional "two natures" theory, God the Son (a.k.a. the divine nature) serves as the soul of the "complete human nature" of the divine-human Christ.
In this first episode I put the discussion in context by explaining various ways Christians deal with the following inconsistent triad of claims (a set such that if any two are true, then the remaining claim is false):
Jesus is divine.
Anything which is divine is not also human, and anything which is human is not also divine.
Jesus is human.
Option 1: Accept all three, holding that there can be true contradictions. So in addition to 1-3 one will also believe 4. It is false that Jesus is divine (which is entailed by 2 and 3), and 5. It is false that Jesus is human (which is entailed by 1 and 2).
Option 2: Deny 1 because the Bible doesn't teach that, while accepting 2 and 3. This is my response.
Option 3: Deny 2, giving a seemingly coherent model on which someone might be both human and divine. This is Dr. Craig's response.
Option 4: Deny 4, accepting docetism about Christ, that he only appears to be human. This is favored by few Christians, as it contradicts clear New Testament teaching.
Incarnation theories may posit as many as five elements, as shown above. But Dr. Craig's theory features only three, eliminating the "rational soul" in the "human nature" because, it is suggested, the divine nature can serve that function. In addition, he is clear that the divine nature is one and the same as Christ. To the left is my illustration of this theory.
In setting up his theory, Dr. Craig mentions six seeming clashes between divinity and humanity, shown in black in white here from his presentation.
But as I explain, winning the defend-the-Incarnation game is harder than he lets on, as there are at least 15 pairs of qualities such that (1) in principle nothing could simultaneously have both, (2) the first quality seems to be essential to divinity, while (3) the second quality seems essential to humanity.
self-existent (a se) / dependent existence
metaphysically necessary existence / metaphysically contingent existence
eternal / time-bound (or: existing at all times vs. not having always existed)
perfect power (omnipotence) / limited power
perfect knowledge (omniscience) / limited knowledge
not in principle able to believe a falsehood / in principle able to believe a falsehood
omnipresent / not omnipresent
uncreated / created
absolute moral perfection / in principle able to fall short of moral perfection
in principle untemptable / in principle temptable
impeccable / peccable
in principle unable to improve one's moral character / in principle able to improve one's moral character
immortal (in principle can't be mortal)/ possibly mortal (in principle can be mortal)
provident over anything else there is / subject to God's providence
authoritative over any other beings there are /under God's authority
This episode includes the heart of Dr. Craig's December 2021 presentation of his views in a video entitled "The Birth of God."
In the next episode I'll argue that Dr. Craig's christology does seem to imply contradictions, and so doesn't show what it's supposed to show, which is that there is a viable interpretation of Chalcedonian "two natures" christology which seems coherent.
Links for this episode:
Dr. Craig's ministry Reasonable Faith
"The Birth of God" - the video quoted in this episode
Debate - "Is Jesus Human and not Divine?" - Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Chris Date
Date and Tuggy, Is Jesus Human and Not Divine?
Clarifying Catholic Christologies
Craig and Moreland, Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview, 2nd ed.
the definition from the catholic council at Chalcedon in 451
podcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!
This week's thinking music is "Don't Die Dog (Instrumental)" by Greg Atkinson.
1 hr 9 min
January 03, 2022 podcast 342 – New Year, New Podcasts!
Well, these are not new podcasts, but maybe some of these will be new to you.
In this first podcast of 2022 I share with you some theology-related podcasts that I regularly listen to, serving up samples and explaining what I like about them.
As I explain, some of them have a very broad appeal, while others cater more to the theology (and philosophy, and history, and Bible) "nerd." All of them, in various ways, can enrich your thought life and your spiritual life.
At the start of this episode I also say a few things about what you can expect from the trinities podcast in 2022, and ask you for some feedback regarding interviews.
Below are links to all the episodes quoted here, as well as "top-level" podcast pages and other related links.
Do you already listen to some of these? If so, let us know in a comment below what you like about them, and drop a link or two to your favorite episode(s).
Links for this episode:
podcast 230 – The Failure of Fashionable Antiunitarian Arguments
Tuggy, "Antiunitarian Arguments from Divine Perfection," Journal of Analytic Theology
trinities 2021 highlights – a grateful review
podcast 207 – Ryan Mullins – In Defense of Divine Temporality
podcast 142 – Dr. R.T. Mullins on the coherence of “classical” theism
podcast 141 – Dr. R.T. Mullins – Is God timeless?
R.T. Mullins home page
The Reluctant Theologian Podcast
Mullins, "The Doctrine of Divine Simplicity"
The Reluctant Theologian Podcast - Ep. 85 What is Time?
podcast 212 – Some Thoughts about God and Time
Henry More (1614–1687)
The Reluctant Theologian Podcast - Ep. 84 William Lane Craig on God, Time, and Creation
The Unitarian Christian Alliance Podcast
UCA Podcast 33 - My Trinitarian Best Friend - Amanda Dunn (Part 1)
UCA Podcast 34 - My Homeschooling Nail-biter - Amanda Dunn (Part 2)
UCA Podcast 6 - Working at the Colson Center - Anna Brown
UCA Podcast 38 - The Making of a Trinity Nerd - Dale Tuggy
The Biblical Unitarian Podcast
The Biblical Unitarian Podcast 204 - An Introduction to the Theme of Misunderstanding in the Gospel of John
The Bible Feed Podcast
UCA podcast 16 - Bible Feed Podcast - Dan Weatherall, Paul Davenport
The Bible Feed Podcast - Episode 10: What is Bible Feed all about?
The Bible Feed Podcast - Episode 31: Thinking about the Trinity (3) Q&A with Tom Gaston
The Bible Feed Podcast - Episode 39: “I and the Father are one”
The Analytic Christian Homepage
The Analytic Christian Podcast
The Analytic Christian YouTube channel
The Analytic Christian - The Incarnation & Mark 13:32 (Dr. Tim Pawl)
podcast 144 – Dr. Timothy Pawl’s In Defense of Conciliar Christology – Part 2
podcast 143 – Dr. Timothy Pawl’s In Defense of Conciliar Christology – Part 1
Thomas Aquinas
Tim Pawl homepage
Restitutio podcast
Restitutio 424 One God 14: One God Today December 31, 2021
Restitutio 423 One God 13: The Fourth Century December 24, 2021
Restitutio 422 One God 12: Early Church History December 18, 2021
Restitutio 421 One God 11: Spirit of God & Christ December 10, 2021
Restitutio 420 One God 10: Christ’s Exaltation & Priestly Service December 3, 2021
Restitutio 419 One God 9: Christ’s Crucifixion and Resurrection November 26, 2021
Restitutio 418 One God 8: Jesus Called God? November 19, 2021
Restitutio 417 One God 7: Jesus, God’s Agent November 12, 2021
Restitutio 416 One God 6: Jesus, God’s Subordinate Son November 4, 2021
Restitutio 415 One God 5: Jesus, God’s Messiah October 29, 2021
Restitutio 414 One God 4: Yahweh, the God of Jesus October 21, 2021
Restitutio 413 One God 3: Yahweh Versus the Idols October 14, 2021
Restitutio 412 One God 2: Yahweh Our God, Yahweh Is One October 7, 2021
Restitutio 411 One God 1: Yahweh, the Supreme Creator October 1, 2021
Restitutio 409 Serving God as a Single Person (Matthew Elton) September 16, 2021
Unitarian Christian Alliance YouTube channel
The One God Report
The One God Report Podcast
Restitutio Interview 31: Master’s University Prof. Finds Son of God, Loses Job (Bill Schlegel) April 5, 2018
From Trinity to One God - by Bill & Stephanie Schlegel
One God Report Podcast 60 - Finding the Deity of Christ in the Old Testament is not a New Testament Exercise, Part 1 - Jesus
One God Report Podcast 61 - Finding the Deity of Christ in the Old Testament, Part 2 - The Apostles
One God Report Podcast 62 - Finding the Deity of Christ in the Old Testament, Part 3: Isaiah 9:6, Genesis 18, Yahweh texts
UCA Conference Video - Bill Schlegel - Finding Evidence for the Deity of Christ in the OT is not a NT Exercise
The Logos Institute for Analytic and Exegetical Theology
Pogos Podcast hosts
Pogos Podcasts @ Soundcloud
Thomas Williams homepage
Pogos Podcast - Thomas Williams on Anselm and Atonement, Episode III
Anselm, Cur Deus Homo
Anselm: Basic Writings, trans. Williams
trinities podcast 232 - Trinity Club Orientation
Anselm
21a Anselm's ontological arguments - Anselm, the Proslogion 2 argument
This week's thinking music is "nightWalk" by airtone.
1 hr 29 min
December 23, 2021podcast 341 – Reflections on my debate with Dr. Andrew Loke
My recent debate with Dr. Andrew Loke about the deity of Christ was courteous but content-rich. In this episode I follow up on some of those issues and arguments.
Topics include:
How Dr. Loke follows some other two natures theorists in understanding Christ's two natures to be concrete things and not mere properties.
How this sort of two-natures theory is subject to serious too-many-sons problems, which is clear, for instance, in the case of the properties mortal and immortal.
Whether or not the alleged Christ-creator texts straightforwardly imply the falsity of any sort of subordinationism.
Dr. Loke's suggestion that in the New Testament the Father is not one and the same with God, but rather, the Father "represents" God (as do Jesus and the Holy Spirit). I speculate on why he thinks this, and argue that the New Testament writings assume its falsity.
When we can attribute a property of a proper part to its whole, and how this applies when it comes to the essential attributes of immortality and uncreatedness.
Concerns about the christological mistake called docetism.
Why I've not argued that there is only on "God" in the New Testament or only one "Lord" there, although I do observe that there is a unique god and a unique lord there.
Why I think it is a mistake to think that the kind of knowledge enjoyed by a perfect being would be merely knowing all truths, and how this affects Dr. Loke's krypsis model of two-natures theory.
Why it is important evidence that the New Testament authors never warn us against inferring that Jesus is limited in power, knowledge, or goodness.
Some disagreements Dr. Loke and I seemed to have about what I think are one essential divine attribute and one essential human attribute.
Finally, I compare what Dr. Loke says about Jesus's seeming denial that he is "good" in Mark 10 with what is said about that passage by Thomas Emlyn in his famous short book An Humble Inquiry.
What did you learn from this debate? What did you think were tho most interesting exchanges?
Links for this episode:
podcast 340 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 2
podcast 339 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 1
1 Corinthians 8:4-6; John 20:24-29; John 17:1-3; Ephesians 4:4-6; Deuteronomy 6:4; John 8:54; Mark 1:1; 1 Corinthians 1:9; 2 Corinthians 1:19; Ephesians 4:13; 2 John 3; John 6:45; John 8:41; John 13:3; Acts 2:33; Ephesians 1:17; Colossians 1:3; James 1:27; James 3:9; 2 John 9; 2 Corinthians 1:2-4; Psalm 11:1, Acts 2:33-35; John 17:5, John 5:26; John 6:68; John 17:8; Mark 13:32; Mark 10:17-22.
podcast 259 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 2
podcast 258 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 1
epikaleo
John 20:28 - Did Thomas Confess that Jesus IS God?
God and his Son - the logic of the New Testament
Reading comprehension quiz: Johann 17:1-3
podcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new words
podcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”
podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Bible
podcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the Bible
podcast 77 – Mr. Chad McIntosh on the Trinity
podcast 76 – Justin Martyr’s Dialogue with Trypho – Part 3
podcast 75 – Justin Martyr’s Dialogue with Trypho – Part 2
podcast 74 – Justin Martyr’s Dialogue with Trypho – Part 1
podcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformation
podcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”
podcast 332 – Emlyn’s Humble Inquiry
Emlyn’s An Humble Inquiry @ Amazon
Bock and Loke on Jesus’s “blasphemy” in Mark 14 – Part 1
Bock and Loke on Jesus’s “blasphemy” in Mark 14 – Part 2
Dr. Loke's reply to the two above posts (last 3 pages)
Clarifying Catholic Christologies
podcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!
This week's thinking music is "Underclocked (underunderclocked mix)" by Eric Skiff.
1 hr 11 min
December 15, 2021 podcast 340 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 2
In this final portion of our debate, we engage in about 40 minutes of free-flowing discussion, followed by our closing statements.
Our topic is New Testament teaching, but I can't resist raising what look to me like some serious problems for Dr. Loke's "kryptic" theory of the incarnation, on which the Son's divine omniscience is in his "pre-conscious" mind, not being directly accessible to him. Among other problems, surely perfection in knowledge requires more than omniscience, and some divine attributes are not mental.
Now that you've heard the whole debate, which side made the stronger case, and why?
After you hear our exchange on the famous "my Lord and my God" text, you can check out the video below from the Unitarian Christian Alliance YouTube channel. I think it makes points which complement my all-too-brief remarks here.
https://youtu.be/PmTsuCv7oSk
Links for this episode:
podcast 339 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 1
Dr. Loke’s publications at Academia.edu
Loke, The Origin of Divine Christology
Loke, A Kryptic Model of the Incarnation
Jordan Hampton’s The Analytic Christian YouTube channel
The original video of this whole debate.
Kermit Zarley on “My Lord and my God.”
R.T. France on Mark 13:32
the NET Bible on Mark 13:32
A letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Me
Tuggy and Date, Is Jesus Human and Not Divine?
podcast 259 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 2
podcast 258 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 1
podcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new words
podcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”
podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Bible
podcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!
This week's thinking music is "Saturday (Instrumental)" by Josh Woodward.
59 min
December 07, 2021 podcast 339 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 1
In August of 2021 I debated analytic theologian and philosopher of religion Dr. Andrew Loke on the above topic for The Analytic Christian YouTube channel.
Dr. Loke makes his case by arguing that a handful of New Testament texts clearly imply the full deity of Jesus, focusing on ones which in his view assert that Jesus was "involved in creation" and so must be "on the creator side of the creator-creature divide."
In my opening, I argue that New Testament clearly teaches six things about Jesus and God which imply that Jesus is not truly divine, as he must lack certain divine attributes.
This first episode includes our opening statements and rebuttals. Next week you'll hear the rest of the debate.
Which opening case is stronger, and why? And including the rebuttals, in your view, which one of us makes the stronger case?
Thanks to Jordan for setting this debate up and being a good moderator, and to Dr. Loke for his goodwill and clear arguments.
Given more time, there is a good bit more I would say about why it's a mistake to think that the New Testament authors assert, imply, or assume that Jesus is truly and fully divine (see several of the links below). On the other hand, I'm pretty happy with my opening statement here as a summary of why we should not think the New Testament Jesus is divine in the way the one God is divine. Thus, I made it into the following stand-alone video:
https://youtu.be/GJCZervdJEk
Links for this episode:
Dr. Loke's publications at Academia.edu
Loke, The Origin of Divine Christology
Loke, A Kryptic Model of the Incarnation
Jordan Hampton's The Analytic Christian YouTube channel
The original video of this whole debate.
podcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”
podcast 124 – a challenge to “Jesus is God” apologists
A letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Me
podcast 264 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 2
podcast 263 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 1
Tuggy and Date, Is Jesus Human and Not Divine?
podcast 259 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 2
podcast 258 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 1
podcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new words
podcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”
podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Bible
podcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!
podcast 146 – Jesus as an Exemplar of Faith in the New Testament
podcast 277 – Was Christ tempted in every way?
podcast 227 – Who Should Christians Worship?
a reading of Philippians 2:5-11
This week's thinking music is "Don't Die Dog (Instrumental)" by Greg Atkinson.
1 hr 6 min
November 15, 2021 podcast 338 – What John 1 Meant
This lecture was the opening session of the 2021 Unitarian Christian Alliance Conference.
In it, after briefly surveying the historical range of interpretations of John 1:1-18, I show how earlier literature gives us the context in which the original audience would have understood the prologue of the fourth gospel.
The resulting interpretation is compatible with but does not imply Trinity or Incarnation as normally understood, as befits a writing of the late 1st century.
The keys to understanding this text, I show, are themes from previous Jewish "wisdom" literature.
Along the way I explain why trinitarian, subordinationist, oneness/modalist, and Socinian interpretations of this text are problematic.
But my purpose is not to give full refutations of these, but rather to show how overall plausible and well-motivated the correct interpretation is.
A correction: when I listed the four kinds of readings of John 1, I unaccountably left out the Oneness/Modalist sort. But I do discuss it, and why I think it is mistaken.
Links for this episode:
the handout for this talk
Recommended video version
UCA podcast 38. The Making of a Trinity Nerd - Dale Tuggy
Spirit and Truth
Atlanta Bible College
Living Hope International Ministries
Allegiance to the King
Williamsburg Christadelphian Foundation
Integrity Syndicate
21st Century Reformation Online
All your base are belong to us
podcast 301 – Dr. Daniel Boyarin on John 1
podcast 298 – Andrews Norton on John 1
podcast 295 – James Martineau on John 1
podcast 294 – Dr. Jo-Ann Brant on the Gospel According to John – Part 2
podcast 293 – Dr. Jo-Ann Brant on the Gospel According to John – Part 1
podcast 292 – New vs. Old “Beginning” – Two Interpretations of John 1
podcast 291 – From one God to two gods to three “Gods” – John 1 and early Christian theologies
podcast 290 – Is the “Socinian” interpretation of John 1 correct? A conversation with Carlos.
podcast 289 – “Socinian” approaches to John 1 – Part 2
podcast 288 – “Socinian” approaches to John 1 – Part 1
podcast 287 – Dr. Andrew Perry on John 1
podcast 116 – George R. Noyes’s Explanation of Isaiah 9:6 and John 1:1
podcast 70 – The one God and his Son according to John
podcast 63 – Thomas Belsham and other scholars on John 8:58
podcast 62 – Dr. Dustin Smith on the preexistence of Jesus in the gospel of John
Debating John 1: Eusebius vs. Marcellus
John A. T. Robinson on “the Word” of John 1
This week's thinking music is "Circles (Instrumental)" by Greg Atkinson.
1 hr 17 min
November 08, 2021 podcast 337 – Chris Date’s Search for a Viable Trinity Theory – Part 2
In this episode, apologist Chris Date continues to develop his Trinity theory we heard the roots of last time, and also adds in a new, similar but different theory.
Starting from ideas in a Psychology article, and adding some reflections based on his favorite first-person shooter video game, Chris Date suggests that one being/substance might well have three "subjectivities" or points of view. This is supposed to give us an idea of "Persons" which are not beings, but rather attributes of beings (or of their experiences).
But in principle, could such "Persons" (which are attributes/properties/features) do what the New Testament says that the Father and the Son do? I urge not - that's the gist of my objections to his first Trinity theory here.
On his second Trinity theory - quickly expounded towards the end of his episode, each "Person" of the Trinity is a self. But the problem now is that they will be the same self. And so similarly, this second theory clashes with the New Testament too, ruling out the interpersonal (self to another self) relationship we see there between God and his human Son.
Towards the end, I explain why I genuinely appreciate what Chris Date is doing, and why I think he should keep going in his quest for a viable Trinity theory.
Links for this episode:
Chris Date @ Academia.edu
The Unitarian Christian Alliance Podcast
UCA Podcast #36 - The 1st UCA Conference - Stacey Berger
UCA Podcast #38 (link coming)
podcast 336 – Chris Date’s Search for a Viable Trinity Theory – Part 1
Theopologetics 028: Can an Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity Be Logically Coherent?
Wozniak, "“I” and “Me”: The Self in the Context of Consciousness"
Zagzebski, "Omnisubjectivity"
Mullins, "The Doctrine of Divine Simplicity"
Divine Simplicity Q&A w/ William Lane Craig + Ryan Mullins
Why Would Someone Hold to Divine Simplicity? (w/ Ryan Mullins)
Mullins, "Divine Simplicity and Modal Collapse: A Persistent Problem"
Does the Trinity Contradict with Classical Theism? (w/ Ryan Mullins)
DEBATE: Trinity vs. Tawheed (Dr. James White vs. Jake Brancatella)
podcast 302 – The Stages of Trinitarian Commitment
podcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformation
podcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”
podcast 260 – How to Argue that the Bible is Trinitarian
The Tuggy-Brown debate: Dale’s opening statement
How Trinity theories conflict with the New Testament
podcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the Bible
This week's thinking music is the track "Arpanauts" by Eric Skiff.
1 hr 15 min
November 05, 2021 podcast 336 – Chris Date’s Search for a Viable Trinity Theory – Part 1
Some object to "the doctrine of the Trinity" that it is incoherent - that is, that it implies one or more contradictions. This is the sort of objection which apologists tend to focus on.
But it's never been clear quite what that doctrine is, as tradition has bequeathed words in need of interpretation without also giving the interpretations. Given this, it's hard to make the case that "the doctrine" is incoherent. And some trinitarians think that there are a number of different doctrines, each of which should count as "the doctrine of the Trinity."
In this episode, you'll hear apologist Chris Date expound what he claims are criteria for a Trinity theory to be orthodox, i.e. in line with (at least the first four) catholic creeds. These are the seven statements shown here. He then starts to expound what he claims is a Trinity doctrine which is both orthodox and coherent. If he's right, then there is at least one orthodox Trinity-theology which is coherent, and the aforementioned critics are mistaken.
In this episode I join in on his exploration of these topics, commenting on his seven criteria for an orthodox theory, and on how he starts to develop his views on how the "divine Persons" relate to the one God. In the next episode, we'll hear the rest of his development of these ideas, and my critical comments on them.
If you are looking for a way of understanding "the Trinity" which is coherent, you should enjoy these explorations.
Links for this episode:
podcast 337 – Chris Date’s Search for a Viable Trinity Theory – Part 2
Theopologetics 028: Can an Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity Be Logically Coherent?
December 4, 2021 debate: Does the Trinity Make Sense? A Debate Between Chris Date vs Muslim Metaphysician
Debate - "Is Jesus Human and not Divine?" - Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Chris Date
Tuggy and Date, Is Jesus Human and Not Divine?
Tuggy, "Trinity," Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
How Trinity theories conflict with the New Testament
podcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the Bible
podcast 232 – Trinity Club Orientation
Tuggy, What is the Trinity?
podcast 2 – the “Athanasian Creed”
podcast 286 – Is the Trinity Essential? – Three Views
podcast 28 – Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God – Part 2
podcast 27 – Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God – Part 1
podcast 325 – Dr. Jc Beall – The Contradictory Christ – Part 2
podcast 324 – Dr. Jc Beall – The Contradictory Christ – Part 1
"abstract objects," Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
This week's thinking music is "The night is calling" by Kraftamt.
1 hr 14 min
October 26, 2021 podcast 335 – Pastor Jeff Deuble’s Christ Before Creeds
As a life-long Church of Christ member and a long-time pastor, Jeff Deuble had a Bible-centered faith, endorsing such slogans as "No creed but Christ," "Where the Scriptures speak, we speak; where the Scriptures are silent, we're silent," "Bible things by Bible names," "We're Christians only, not the only Christians," and "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials liberty; in all things, love."
But what is essential to Christian teaching according the Bible? One day Jeff Deuble's older brother told him that he thought Jesus is the Son of God, but not God the Son. Why? Because in his view, this is what the Bible teaches, as against later traditions.
A lifelong Christian, Pastor Deuble was shocked and horrified. Haven't basically all Christians always believed that Jesus is God the Son, one of three "divine Persons" in the triune God? This started off a scriptural investigation of some 12 years, and the theological change which Pastor Deuble explains in this readable, charitable, and engaging new book. He has come to see "the Trinity" and "the deity of Christ" as not essential according to Scripture.
Is he right?
The three other interviews below are complimentary to this one; be sure to check them out if you'd like to hear more from Pastor Deuble before delving into the book.
Links for this episode:
Christ Before Creeds (Amazon)
Christ Before Creeds - Dale Tuggy, Sean Finnegan, Anna Brown & Jeff Deuble
Restitutio 366 Who Was Christ before the Creeds? (Jeff Deuble)
Restitutio 408 Christ before Creeds Book (Jeff Deuble)
Restitutio Interview 49 They Never Told Me This in Church (Greg Deuble)
Three recent whistleblowers
podcast 332 – Emlyn’s Humble Inquiry
podcast 22 – a cure for odium theologicum
podcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”
10 steps towards getting less confused about the Trinity – #8 – trinity vs. Trinity
The Tuggy-Brown debate: Dale’s opening statement
podcast 302 – The Stages of Trinitarian Commitment
podcast 108 – Dr. Robert M. Bowman Jr. on triadic New Testament passages – part 2
podcast 107 – Dr. Robert M. Bowman Jr. on triadic New Testament passages – part 1
What is essential to the gospel, according to Luke?
podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Bible
podcast 191 – Ware’s Outline of the Testimony of Scripture Against the Trinity
podcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformation
podcast 285 – Does the Bible Teach that God is a Trinity? Cole-Tuggy Dialogue – Part 4
podcast 284 – Does the Bible Teach that God is a Trinity? Cole-Tuggy Dialogue – Part 3
podcast 283 – Does the Bible Teach that God is a Trinity? Cole-Tuggy Dialogue – Part 2
podcast 282 – Does the Bible Teach that God is a Trinity? Cole-Tuggy Dialogue – Part 1
podcast 286 – Is the Trinity Essential? – Three Views
This week’s thinking music is “reCreation” by airtone.
1 hr 6 min
September 22, 2021 podcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”
What would we expect to see in the New Testament if these authors thought Jesus to be a man and not a god? What would we expect to see if they thought he was a god but not a man? And what would we expect to see in these book if the authors thought that Jesus was a "godman," one of three "Persons" within the triune God?
The answers, when we compare them to what is actually in the New Testament, are most illuminating. And this extended argument can't be accused of "assuming unitarianism." Observations like these are part of why many are switching from a trinitarian to a unitarian understanding of New Testament theology and christology.
Because of my many slides, I recommend excellent the video version of this new lecture from August 2021 in Antioch, Tennessee. And the arguments may be easier to follow with this three-page handout.
Links for this episode:
Unitarian Christian Alliance (conference)
Restitutio
Clarifying Catholic Christologies
podcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new words
podcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”
podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Bible
podcast 190 – What is the Trinity? A triad of book reviews
podcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformation
podcast 166 – Alvan Lamson’s On the Doctrine of Two Natures in Jesus Christ – Part 2
podcast 165 – Alvan Lamson’s On the Doctrine of Two Natures in Jesus Christ – Part 1
podcast 156 – Dr. J.R. Daniel Kirk on A Man Attested by God – Part 2
podcast 155 – Dr. J.R. Daniel Kirk on A Man Attested by God – Part 1
This week's thinking music is "Sector Vector" by Little Glass Men.
1 hr 49 min