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Strange bedfellows keep shaping the future of intelligence. Neuroscientist Sean Manion joins Brian "Ponch" Rivera to start with a canceled consciousness conference tied to Epstein disclosures, then unravels the threads: cybernetics' origins in Wiener’s teleology and Macy meetings, Boyd’s OODA Loop as a cybernetic descendant, AI’s engineering dominance sidelining broader systems thinking, and Epstein/Brockman networks influencing cognitive science.

We critique LLM reliability ceilings, preprint floods lacking curation, von Neumann’s architectural warnings, Wiener’s governance cautions, and Church-era "limited hangout" echoes in today’s transparency gaps. The conversation pivots to resurgence: analog computing mimicking the brain’s digital-analog hybrid (glia’s role in timing and gradients), memory’s unreliability, LLMs as partners not prophets, and the power of small, interdisciplinary circles for real progress.

A must-listen for anyone navigating AI limits, knowledge politics, or Boyd’s framework in uncertain times. Tune in, subscribe, and share your biggest unanswered question in the reviews.

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Is the staggeringly profitable business of scientific publishing bad for science?

John R. Boyd's Conceptual Spiral was originally titled No Way Out. In his own words: 

“There is no way out unless we can eliminate the features just cited. Since we don’t know how to do this, we must continue the whirl of reorientation…”

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