What would it be like to recognize and step around people's attempts to manipulate us for their own agenda? That's the through line of this conversation with Wayne and Kyle that meanders all over the place—from drag queens at the Olympics, to why Jesus rejoices more over the one lost sheep than the ninety-nine still back in the pen, to a look at The Sound of Music, and finally manipulation tactics of the Central Intelligence Agency. They celebrate the reality of "growing and blooming forever" as the culmination of our journeys here and offer a possibility of what life in the spirit might be, rather than us just doing whatever he says.

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