What happens when a pastor realizes they’re going through the motions—but not actually experiencing God?

In this episode, Loren talks with Rev. Dr. Katherine Willis Pershey about faith, formation, and the unexpected influence of Eugene Peterson on her life and ministry. Drawing from her own journey across multiple Christian traditions, Katherine reflects on the tension between justice, belief, and personal encounter with God.

The conversation explores how Peterson’s writing helped her rediscover prayer, Scripture, and the heart of pastoral vocation—not as performance or productivity, but as attentiveness to a living, active God. They also wrestle with the challenges of ministry in a secular age, the pressures facing pastors today, and the difficulty of maintaining spiritual depth in a culture shaped by busyness and division.

They discuss the false divide between personal piety and social justice, the importance of spiritual practices like prayer and worship, and what it means to lead faithfully in a fragmented and polarized church landscape.

Katherine Willis Pershey serves as co-pastor of First Congregational UCC Appleton, Wisconsin, having previously served congregations in Illinois and California. She is the author of Very Married: Field Notes on Love and Fidelity and co-author of Love Letters to God, and is a regular contributor to the Christian Century. She received a DMin from the Eugene Peterson Center for Christian Imagination at Western Theological Seminary in 2024. 

Mentioned Resources:

🌐 Katherine's Website: katherinewillispershey.com

📖 Katherine's Books: Books & Writings

🟧 Katherine's Substack: katherinewillispershey.substack.com/

📱 Facebook: @katherinewillispershey

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📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/

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🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/

Supporting Sponsors:

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Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Dennis Sanders – Producer

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Katherine Willis Pershey, Eugene Peterson theology, The Message Bible, pastoral theology, spiritual formation pastors, progressive Christianity and orthodoxy, personal piety and social justice, prayer and ministry, contemplative pastor, working the angles, secular age Christianity, faith and doubt journey, church leadership formation, spiritual direction, mainline and evangelical divide, real active God theology, pastoral burnout and busyness, discipleship and formation, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.