Donald Trump’s theory of a government shutdown was that it would give him more power to fire federal employees, and cut benefits and healthcare. Of course, if you claim to be an all-powerful executive, aren’t people going to conclude that the shutdown is your fault?

Guest: David Dayen, executive editor of the American Prospect.

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Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.

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