Studies show that the global population will decline eventually and populations in many rich nations are already declining.

However, 11,000 scientists signed a paper warning of “untold suffering due to the climate crisis” unless society transforms, including the reversal of population growth.

But an analysis by the United Nations found that affluence has a greater impact on the climate than population.

When we talk about overpopulation, what are we really saying and where does the conversation go from here?

Presenters Neal Razzell and Kate Lamble are joined by:

Nyovani Madise, head of the Malawi office of the African Institute for Development Policy.

Anu Ramaswami, professor of civil and environmental engineering at Princeton.

Arvind Ravikumar, professor in energy transition and climate policy at the University of Texas.

Producer: Darin Graham

Reporter: Rajesh Joshi

Series producer: Alex Lewis

Editor: Emma Rippon

Sound engineer: Tom Brignell