Since their mutual independence in 1947, India and Pakistan have been locked into a fierce rivalry that shows no signs of abating anytime soon. 

But a new book by the political scientist Christopher Clary, The Difficult Politics of Peace: Rivalry in Modern South Asia, suggests that our traditional narrative of doom and gloom glosses over a rich history of cooperation, contestation, conflict, and conciliation that defies easy explanations.

This week on the show, Milan sits down with Chris Clary to discuss why and when rival states pursue conflict or cooperation. Clary is an assistant professor of political science at the University at Albany and a nonresident fellow with the Stimson Center in Washington, D.C. 

The two discuss the primacy of leaders, the surprising cooperation India and Pakistan have often forged, and the South Asian security community’s blind spots. Plus, Chris tells Milan why there is ample evidence for continued pessimism in bilateral peace negotiations.

1. “Pallavi Raghavan on an Alternative History of India-Pakistan Relations,” Grand Tamasha, April 7, 2020.
2. Brian Finlay, “The Passing of Our Co-Founder Michael Krepon,” Henry L. Stimson Center, July 16, 2022.
3. “Myra MacDonald on the India-Pakistan Battle for Siachen,” Grand Tamasha, March 9, 2021.