After twenty years of America’s post-9/11 wars and the US military’s struggle to build capable and effective security forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, there is an important discussion taking place about what role security force assistance should play for the United States in the very different strategic environment that is taking shape. Will it be a mission that we'll be required to do in order to compete with Russia and China? Or will it become tangential to our preparations for large-scale combat operations? And given the challenges we faced over the past two decades, what needs to happen to achieve better outcomes in the future? Will Reno, a professor at Northwestern University, and Franky Matisek, an Air Force officer and associate professor at the US Air Force Academy, have researched the topic deeply, including conducting hundreds of interviews in the field. They join this episode to discuss their findings.