When We Disagree

In this episode of When We Disagree, political philosopher Daniel Layman dives into his book-length debate with anarchist Michael Huemer, tackling one of the most fundamental political questions imaginable: is government ever legitimate? Layman defends the messy, imperfect middle ground — what we call “the slog” — arguing that while governments can be unjust, they’re what make equal rights possible. We explore why nuance is hard to defend in a world that loves slogans and how to emphasize grey areas against radical positions. 

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Chris Lundberg, professor of Communication at UNC and the founder and CEO of Vocable Communications, asks what it really means to educate good citizens in a divided age. Should universities focus on teaching facts or on teaching how to listen, argue, and think together? Lundberg makes the case for learning to disagree well—turning opinion from a possession into a starting point for shared understanding. Together, we explore how hope for democracy lies not in perfect consensus, but in the everyday practice of thinking and talking about evidence. 

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Jon Sklaroff, a podcast and public media professional, comes in hot with a controversial claim: there’s only one true pizza — New York style. A lighthearted food debate moves into a deeper conversation about meaning, majority rule, and why definitions matter. We explore whether pizza — and truth — should be decided by consensus or by conviction. A hilarious, oddly profound argument about how we define the things we love.

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Julie Rose - journalist, radio host, and creator of the weekly shows Top of Mind and Uncomfy - shares the deeply personal story of her biggest regret: years of unproductive arguments with her mother over cable news. In this moving conversation, she reflects on why even the most skilled interviewers can lose curiosity when emotions and identity get tangled up at home. Julie’s honesty about what she wishes she’d asked instead offers a masterclass in empathy, humility, and learning to listen - especially when it matters most.

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What happens when a dialogue expert loses his cool? Vince Greer, Associate Dean of Students and Director of Dialogue & Belonging at Claremont McKenna College, unpacks an argument with a close friend over women’s rights that shook his confidence as a professional listener. Together they explore when neutrality stops being a virtue, how to hold space for passion without disrespect, and why being effective sometimes matters more than being right.

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Mary Kate Cary is a former White House speechwriter for President George H. W. Bush and a lecturer at the University of Virginia, where she teaches Democracy Out Loud a course on great American speeches. In this episode, Cary explores the long, complicated friendship and rivalry between Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, tracing their relationship in three acts—from collaborators on independence, to bitter political opponents, to reconciled friends through letters late in life. She reflects on how their disagreement shaped America’s two-party system and the tradition of peaceful transfer of power. Drawing on her own career as a bipartisan commentator and teacher, Cary argues that principled disagreement—rather than hostility—is essential to a healthy democracy.

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Jordan Pace represents District 117 in the South Carolina House of Representatives and serves as Chairman of the House Freedom Caucus. Pace recounts how his political conversion—from an ardent pro–Bush-Cheney neoconservative teenager to a libertarian-leaning Ron Paul disciple— was sparked by an unexpected conversation with Paul himself. Reflecting on that moment, Pace discusses the power of genuine dialogue to reshape convictions, the enduring tension between government power and personal liberty, and why he believes our polarized culture desperately needs more real debate and less echo-chamber shouting. It’s a candid story of ideological transformation and quiet persuasion. 

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Lara Schwartz, author of Try to Love the Questions, argues that our disagreements get stuck when we reduce them to binary yes/no battles. Instead, she calls for “lovable questions”—open-ended inquiries that push us beyond entrenched positions and into shared exploration. From campus debates over AI to national fights about free speech, Schwartz shows how the real challenge is deciding which questions remain open and which society has already answered. She makes the case that disagreement is a skill we can all practice—and that doing so helps us find common ground without forcing false compromises.

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Former Congressman Joe Cunningham shares the story of how he broke ranks with his own party by calling on President Biden not to seek reelection—and the backlash that followed. From being the first Democrat in 2022 to publicly urge generational change, to his later role with the No Labels movement, Cunningham reflects on the costs of speaking out against political orthodoxy. His story raises big questions about loyalty, party power, and the limits of disagreement inside America’s two-party system.

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Ben Klutsey, executive director of the Mercatus Center whose work to bridge political differences is showcased in the documentary Undivide Us, shares a formative story of encountering racism as a child visiting Germany—a moment of unprovoked hostility that deeply shaped his outlook. Years later, after leaving Ghana and arriving in Appleton, Wisconsin for college, he was met with unexpected warmth, an experience he describes as a healing contrast that sparked his lifelong commitment to what he calls pluralist points. For Klutsey, pluralism means more than diversity—it’s about engaging across difference with tolerance, humility, and patience. 

When We Disagree returns for season 3 in October 2025. 

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