Many Americans think Trump is harming democracy; they see him as acting undemocratically in various ways. At the same time, Republicans and Trump supporters can view Democrats/liberals as themselves acting in highly undemocratic ways: as embracing various beliefs and actions that violate the spirit of democracy. I talk to Elizabeth Doll, who has worked in the political depolarization/bridge-building space for several years; she is currently the Director of Braver Politics for the organization Braver Angels. She is also someone who has been frustrated with various stances of liberal “defenders of democracy” that she sees as undemocratic and hypocritical. Topics discussed include: why anti-Trump people should want to understand these criticisms; various Republican-side views that liberals have behaved “undemocratically,” the debate over the electoral college; the debate over adding Supreme Court justices (stacking the court); the ambiguity in the word “democracy” and how that ambiguity leads to many things being called “undemocratic,"; why trying to understand each others' concerns is important for reducing toxicity, and more.

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