As federal troops patrol the capital and masked men whisk away immigrants in unmarked cars, it’s reasonable to ask: is President Trump a fascist? According to Jason Stanley, the answer is a resounding yes.

Stanley is a philosopher and the author of seven books, including How Propaganda Works, How Fascism Works, and Erasing History. He’ll be teaching at the University of Toronto this fall, after leaving Yale and the United States for Canada. He describes his self-imposed exile as an expressive act meant to sound an alarm, but Kara is skeptical, and the two of them spar over his choice. They also break down the ways in which Trump is following the fascist playbook — from cultural capture of museums and universities, to data manipulation, and emergency declarations — and the role of the media in normalizing anti-democratic power grabs. Finally they debate whether MAGA can survive without Trump, and whether America can survive MAGA. 

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