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0:28 Musa’s track record as Trump-reader and his new book, We Have Never Been Woke 2:19 The reason Trump won—twice 14:49 Messaging that works for the working class 20:58 Has the left lost the faith(ful)? 27:39 Who is wokeness even for? 33:44 Biden’s bad messaging 36:04 Why elites failed to deliver on social justice 51:28 Heading to Overtime

Robert Wright (Nonzero, The Evolution of God, Why Buddhism Is True) and Musa al-Gharbi (Stony Brook University, We Have Never Been Woke, https://musaalgharbi.substack.com/). Recorded January 29, 2025.

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