Rap got religious last year. At least that’s what Zac wrote earlier this year for America. The truth is, while it may have gotten more explicit about religion in 2016, hip-hop has always had a deep religious undercurrent to its bars and beats.

This week we’re chatting with Alex Nava, the author of In Search of Soul: Hip-Hop, Literature, and Religion. We talk to Alex about religion’s influence on hip-hop and why people are surprised to find out about it. If you need any convincing before or after listening to us—go listen to Kendrick Lamar’s “How Much a Dollar Cost.”

In Signs of the Times, we talk Pope Francis in Colombia, rapping nuns, beer-brewing monks and proposing in front of Pope Francis.

Links from the show: