2 Guys And A Chainsaw - A Horror Movie Review Podcast

A low budget film that intentionally delivers more laughs than scares, though you’d never know it from the notorious box art. Todd is a big Jim Wynorski fan, and recommends this movie as a gateway into his cornball, highly entertaining earlier films, straight from Roger Corman’s shop.

Chopping Mall (1986)

Episode 30, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig:  Hello, and welcome to another edition of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd: And I’m Todd.

Craig: And today, we watch the film oh, gosh. I don’t even know if it’s a film. 

Todd:  Let’s let’s say let’s say movie. The, amusement. Yeah. 

Craig:  Chopping Mall from 1986. This was Todd’s Choice. So, Todd, explain yourself. 

Todd:  Oh, man. I I you know, I love the director of this film, Jim Wynorski. This is his 2nd movie. He did a movie called The Lost Empire before this, but, his dream growing up was to become Basically, worked for Roger Corman. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  He loved his movies growing up, and he wanted to be a b movie director. And gosh darn it. He got his dream. Yeah. 

Craig:  I guess he did. Like, he 

Todd:  he actually He fell right into Roger Corman’s lap, essentially went to Hollywood and started cutting trailers for him, cutting trailers for his films. And then one of the distributors came by and to Corman’s studio and said, I want a movie that takes place in a shopping mall, a killer in a shopping mall movie. And so Jim Winojovsky said that if you’ll let me direct it, I’ll write it really cheap. And so he wrote it, they let him direct it, And this boosted him down a path which has led to the guy’s made, like, 5 or 6 movies a year. Really? He’s still making movies. And he started out in Roger Corman’s studio making movies for him and then started doing his own stuff. He is an interesting character. The movies that he started making starting at about, the turn of the century, I can say that now.   Right? Right. 2000 were all these sort of soft core Parodies like The Witches of Breastwick and, The Bear Wench Project and things like that. So he took this, I think, very disappointing turn towards just getting, like, adult film stars and, putting them in soft core roles and making these parody films. And that went for about a decade or 2. And lately, he’s been doing more of these big monster movies like, Like Sharknado type movies. You know? If you look at his newer ones, it’s it’s these goofy, Piranha Don or something like that films. But I think that his movies back in the eighties and going into the nineties are just more fun. They’re super campy.   They’re clearly written to be campy. Right. Like, he He’s intentionally sticking a whole bunch of humor in here. It’s not, the kind of it’s so bad, it’s it’s funny kind of funny. It’s the I’m almost intentionally making this so bad that it’s funny, but I’m also throwing in a lot of winks to you Right. So that you know that I know that This is totally goofy. You know what I mean? 

Craig:  Yeah. I I told her. Absolutely. 

Todd:  And this is actually, I love this movie, But there’s another movie you and I are going to watch, which is one of my all time favorite bad movies called Sorority House Massacre 2. Alright. He is behind that, and It is just so perfect on so many levels as a bad movie. 

Craig:  Oh, gosh. That’s funny. Well, if it if it rivals this one, 

Todd:  I’ll take your word for it. 

Craig:  I mean, yeah, this is a a really campy movie. I mean, you can see, that he was given a little, wink and a nod to Corman at some point in the movie. One of the young couples is watching one of Corman’s films. Right? Mhmm. Like attack of the giant crab. Yeah. Something like that. And that other movie that you had mentioned that he had done before, that movie poster is featured prominently throughout the, throughout the film.   So 

Todd:  It’s goofy. There are movie posters all through the movie. Right. Film for no good The reason, like, it’s like wherever they had a bare wall and they didn’t have any way to decorate it, they just slap up some movie poster. 

Craig:  It’s yeah. I mean, it’s it’s funny. I mean, it takes place in a mall. The the premise is so simple. We open up with, kind of this training seminar where mall employees are being told about their new security system, which is these, robots, these 3 robots that are gonna patrol at night while the mall is locked down from 12 until 6. We see a video demonstration where This bad guy, Robert, like, robs the jewelry Todd store in the mall, and then one of these robots chases after him. The bad guy shoots at him to you know, but it doesn’t the robot isn’t affected in any way. And eventually, the robot, like, stuns him, and he’s detained.   And that’s how it’s supposed to work. All of these people, I guess they were mall employees, execs maybe Yeah. 

Todd:  Or something. 

Craig:  So it’s or 

Todd:  just interest yeah. It’s hard Todd know interested people from the community 

Craig:  or something. But they’re they’re concerned about safety and whatnot. And, of course, The designer, the engineer, whoever’s in charge of this assures them, oh, no. No. Nothing could possibly go wrong. 

Todd:  I’m trying to think if this was pre or post Robocops. Robocops. It 

Craig:  was 1986. I’m not sure when Robocop came out, but it’s funny because it it just Looking back now at the eighties at what we thought technology was going to be Oh 

Todd:  my gosh. 

Craig:  These robots, you know, are are basically just kinda like giant Trash bins on on conveyor belts. 

Todd:  They’re like a Craig between a trash bin and a tank. Yeah. Right. They’ve got these tank treads, these tired what do you call that? I don’t know. Whatever treads. They’re they’re they’re riding on those, and they’re and they sound like lawnmowers when they’re going around 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  Which is all the Sillier that they seem to be able to sneak up on people so easily 

Craig:  Right. Throughout this movie. And they’ve got these, like, pincher hands that they click, Like like, threateningly, like, that’s their their big threat. They’re a little bit reminiscent of, short circuit, but even short circuit Was more advanced Way more advanced. Yeah. Also, really reminiscent of the robot from it’s Wes Craven, the My oh, deadly friend. Deadly friend. 

Todd:  Yeah. It does. It looks a lot like the deadly friend real quick. 

Craig:  And it’s set up with, I guess, Tasers, and at one point, one of the scientists said something like a sleep something that can knock somebody out, tranquilizer or something, and and lasers. 

Todd:  And they just inexplicably start shooting lasers. Right. At some point, like the pew pew pew, kinda like Star Wars, guns. 

Craig:  Oh, yeah. And and the effects are just just ridiculously low budget and bad. When they do shoot their lasers, I mean, it’s obvious that these are just, like, animated in and post. It’s It’s it’s funny. And they’re supposed to be you know, they call them kill bots, and they’re supposed to be these ominous scary things, and they go at about maybe 5 miles an hour. 

Todd:  You should be able to outrun these no problem. 

Craig:  Oh, right. Like, anytime characters are running away from them, like, it’s obvious that they’re doing everything that they can to run as possible, like, turn around and look behind them to make sure it’s still back there. And there are some scenes where it it kinda looks like it’s only the robot, in frames. There’s not a human in Craig, so they clearly just speed up the film Mhmm. To make it look like the robots are going faster. They don’t really seem threatening at all, but, of course, something does go wrong. 

Todd:  Yep. 

Craig:  There’s a big electrical storm, and, the, I guess, Generators or something on top of the building are struck by lightning, which causes a short, which turns the robots evil. 

Todd:  I guess it flipped the evil switch on the robots or something. Yeah. I I think it’s another one of those, RoboCop type deals where You think you’ve programmed it correctly to not injure people, but even more so than than the RoboCop robots, these guys have no just it seems like they’re MO. Yeah. What is it? The 1st night maybe that they’re on patrol or something? Right. They’re just gonna kill people. 

Craig:  Yeah. And, you know, at first, they kill, Whoever the the guy who was, like, manning the computer or whatever, and then somebody else comes in to replace him. The body’s gone, so I guess the robots clean up after themselves too. And they kill him. And then 

Todd:  Oh, well, that second guy, though, was the funniest scene because it probably took 10 minutes with him sitting there, walking in, talking to himself, sitting down. And the way they have these robots positioned in the computer room is I I think if you’re either claustrophobic or you’re really nervous about these things, it’s the worst way. Right. Your the computer panel is facing the robots, and the robots are facing the computer panel. And you, as a person operating the computer, is gonna Sit in between them with your back to the robots, and they’re constantly the robots are ominously, like, coming on, but Coming off or clicking their fingers. Right. 

Craig:  Like, they’re they’re looking at each other. Like, they like, the robots, like, turn and look at each other. Like, they don’t have or anything, they just got, like, this red strip where their lasers shoot out of like, they’re giving each other looks, like, sly looks. 

Todd:  That’s pretty funny. This Poor guy who all this is making so much noise, but then he doesn’t hear it. Right. But what he does hear is a little click or something, and he turns around and then he Goes back to reading his book and turns back around and goes back to reading his book, turns around and looks some more, goes back to reading his book, and you’re like, okay. Come on. What is this good? What is this scene gonna end? 

Craig:  Right. Eventually, it just kills him, and, we move on. Of course, then we’ve gotta get some young, sexy people lined up to to start getting killed Also, the way that gets established is that these mall employees, I think there’s 4 couples, are going to Stay late after the mall closes, and they’re gonna have a party in one of the furniture stores. And, you know, you’ve got, like, The sexy couple, with the guy who’s, you know, real buff and and smacking his gum all the time and his girlfriend who’s kind of the sex bomb. And then you’ve got 2 more couples who are just kinda little bit more nondescript, 1 brown haired one, 1 darker haired couple. And then you’ve got The cute, sweet, innocent couple, and that is Allison and Ferdie. And Ferdie. They’re kind of the the nerdy of the group.   And so, you know, of course, The if anybody’s gonna make it, it’s gonna be that. 

Todd:  Them. Right. They’re the more innocent ones. 

Craig:  And then so they they start their party, and it’s pretty interesting party. I’ve never been to a party like this. 

Todd:  Well, it has to be said that part of the security system is that the mall has these big Steel sci fi steel doors that slam shut. So after you’re in the mall for after a certain point, you’re, you’re basically Stuck and locked in, which is a terrible design. 

Craig:  Right. Doesn’t make any sense. 

Todd:  But they all work at the same, well, they all work in the mall. And 3 of these guys work in the furniture store, and the other 2 are in work I don’t know. I don’t know where the 3rd 4th girl should work. And 

Craig:  I think, like, the dark couple that seem maybe a little bit older, I think that they did, like, car repairs or something, like, out of the mall or something like that. 

Todd:  In. It was, like, probably the Sears Auto Center 

Craig:  Right. Yeah. 

Todd:  Uh-huh. And so, yeah, they decide they’re gonna throw a party that night and lock themselves in. And I don’t know. They had some beer, but they didn’t really drink much of it. 

Craig:  No. They danced, like 

Todd:  some music and danced for 3 minutes, 

Craig:  and then everybody jumped into bed. Not all the same bed, but it’s a furniture store. It’s like a showroom. So, like, here’s 1 couple kind of over In one corner, and then maybe 10, 15 feet away is another couple on a couch or something. And they’re all just getting it on except for, of course, The sweet innocent ones for me, and Alison who are watching the Corman movie, and she’s getting scared and kinda snuggling up to him, and he’s, you know, being a total gentleman. And I think eventually maybe they smooch a little bit Todd. 

Todd:  But seem to release the implications that they do. I think this movie is not without art though because that is a cool scene Where they go from bed Todd bed to sofa to other bed to those 2 sitting on that other sofa. It’s It’s 

Craig:  a It it’s all one shot, isn’t it? 

Todd:  I think it is. Yeah. They move from 1 to the other. It’s pretty impressive, actually, for this kind of movie to have an all 1 shot Deal where you’re getting a little bit of by play with the different characters, and the writing is really goofball. Oh my gosh. Well, it’s The lines 

Craig:  are fun to watch Because they use such antiquated eighties slang. Bodacious and bitchin’. Right. Allison’s friend, Susie, she’s the one that’s gonna be setting, Allison up with Ferdie, and she says something like Hey. Would I set you up with a slime dog or something? No way, babe. It is, babe, isn’t it? Just stuff that really seemed even really artificial even for Yeah. 19 eighties. And the dialogue is just I mean, the the script, it’s fun in how silly it is.   But, you know, they’re being chased around by these robots, and they’ll just Stop to hang out in a place for a while, chitchat. You know? It’s it’s like every time they escape the robots, then they just move somewhere else and just wait for them to show up Pretty much. Yeah. 

Todd:  They’re being pursued. I I love that line when the 2 of them are on the sofa making out. You smell like pepperoni. 

Craig:  Well, that’s the way you feel. Wait a minute. What? 

Todd:  I like pepperoni. 

Craig:  Oh, in that case Then she takes her top off. And that’s you know, we get a lot of that. Well, actually, not as much as you might think from a movie like this. I mean, there there’s definitely TNA. 

Todd:  There’s not a lot, 

Craig:  Not as not so much. 

Todd:  Not so much as in his later years. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  Jim Winorsky, one of one of his, famous quotes is he says that, breaths are the cheapest Special effect we have. 

Craig:  It’s it’s funny that you said that he kinda went on to do softcore porn stuff because There were several times in this movie where if you just lifted out the 15 or 20 seconds, you might have thought that it was lifted from a porn. Exactly. That’s Kind of the quality of acting and writing And writing. Yes. That we’ve 

Todd:  got here. You’re absolutely right. 

Craig:  We have a little cameo. What what what’s the guy’s name? He was the old neighbor from Gremlins. Right? 

Todd:  Yeah. Dick Miller. Yeah. And you’ll see him in a lot of Roger Corman. He’s, like, one of Corman’s, you know, staple guys. Always playing The same type of character. 

Craig:  Oh, that’s funny. Yeah. He plays a janitor, and he’s, after the 2, you know, computer guys. He’s the first one to get it, and it’s Kind of a funny scene where he’s, like, bantering with this robot, and then the robot shoots its its taser, and it misses him, but it lands in the puddle of water where he’s mopping, so he gets electrocuted. And, again, it’s that classic Eighties electrocuting look. Animated kind 

Todd:  of thing. Yeah. He falls down, and the robot goes, thank you. Have a Nice day. And that’s a running gag through the whole thing. It’s through every time it kills somebody, it says that. Right. It’s hilarious. 

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, it’s silly. I mean, they they clearly knew they clearly knew what they were doing. They weren’t trying to make this a serious scary movie, and it’s not Scary. I mean, there’s really nothing scary about it at all. It’s more just a fun ride. After that, the plot basically is These folks get these kids get picked off 1 by 1 Yeah. In kind of a variety of ways.   The first one to go is, think his name he’s the hot guy with you know, who’s got the sexy sexy girlfriend. And Mhmm. She sends him out to go get cigarettes. He goes out there. 1 of the robots shows up. You know, there’s not much to it. The robot tases him or puts him to sleep or something then cuts 

Todd:  his throat. Yeah. And that and and that’s another eighties thing. He’s going to get Cigarettes out of the vending machine. 

Craig:  Yeah. And they’re a doll and he’s like, a dollar and a quarter. 

Todd:  Like, if only. Right. Right? 

Craig:  Oh, man. So and then his girlfriend comes out looking for him. She stumbles upon him, finds his dead body. She starts running back to the store, And the robot is in pursuit of her shooting the lasers. 

Todd:  That’s when the lasers come out. Right. I’m like, what the heck? 

Craig:  And then, like, I get one of the robot has, like, red lasers and the other one has a blue laser. It’s really funny. And what else is the other thing that’s funny about that is The robots chase them around the mall throughout the whole rest of the movie, and they’re constantly shooting lasers of them and very, very rarely do they 

Todd:  hit. Yeah. Like, sometimes inaccurate robot. 

Craig:  Right. Sometimes the characters will literally be, like, 5, 10 feet in front of them standing, not moving, like, just Standing there, like, with a gun or something, and the lasers are flying all around, but, they never get hit. 

Todd:  Except for her. 

Craig:  Yeah. Except for her. She does. She her head gets blown off. 

Todd:  The most impressive special effect of the whole movie. 

Craig:  Right? Yes. It is. And that’s the the rest of the kids see this happen through the store window. So now they know they’re in pursuit, and so they all run off together. And from then on, it’s it’s really just cat and mouse. 

Todd:  It really is. Yeah. They crawl up in the The vents. Vents. The air shaft. The air shaft. 

Craig:  The girls do. 

Todd:  And they think that the robots are are cranking up the heat because they know they’re up there. It’s all very lamely played. Oh, yeah. It’s all pretty bad. But, yeah, it’s just cat and mouse. I love some of the jokes though when they Go through and the guys decide that they need to get weapons. Yeah. We’re not gonna be able to get out of here, so we need to go get weapons.   So they run Todd the sporting goods store, which is called Peckinpah’s. You know, reference to Sam Peckinpah, which is hilarious. And, they get all their get all manner of, I don’t know, man. Can you buy Like, assault rifles? These assault rifles and things in stores? Well, probably not anymore. Even in the eighties, really. I 

Craig:  don’t know. I don’t know. But, well, it is Funny because, you know, it’s just the sorting good store where all of these weapons are just right out on the shelves, right stocked right next to the ammo. That’s right. But So they arm themselves, to the teeth. 1 guy’s got, like, the bullet strap, you know, down across his torso, and he’s got, like, a semiautomatic rifle. And one of them’s got, like, a great big shotgun, and and one of them’s got, like, a magnum handgun or something. And, they get all strapped up, and one of them says something like, 

Todd:  Let’s go send those at Rambo Graham. 

Craig:  And there are funny, funny lines like that, throughout. I mean, just just silly, just pure cheese. 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s cute too the way that the movie changes tone just a little bit When these guys decide they need to start fighting back, it suddenly becomes less of a horror movie and more of an action movie. They’re gunning trying to gun these robots down and nothing thing gets these things. Absolutely nothing. They think that they’ve knocked it out. They toss a Propane tank. Propane tank down, shoot the propane tank, and that blows up And the robot tips over, and, I think they’re standing over it, and he says, what’s that? Robot blood. 

Craig:  No further explanation. I guess these robots Just bleed something. 

Todd:  But that robot wasn’t even dead. It comes back up. And so it does a pretty good job, I think, the film of This relentlessness of these robots even though they are not credible necessarily, The within the movie world, it does a pretty good job of keeping them relentless. Like, you really have no idea. It’s not like, well, why don’t you just tip them over? 

Craig:  Or why 

Todd:  don’t you just do this? Because Nothing is working on these guys, and they’re certainly trying. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. And that’s the thing. You know? With today’s technology and a better budget, The story might seem more plausible Yeah. If it weren’t so obvious that they could easily outrun these things if they just wanted to. Yeah. Or if, you know, like, They will like I said before, they will get away. Like, they’ll open up one of the garage style doors to one of the closed stores and then get inside and close the door behind them.   And these robots have gotten through, like, steel doors and stuff before, but they’ll just go in there then and Sit and wait until they come in. They’re like, oh, crap. Now they’re here. We better do something. 

Todd:  In in the meantime, while they’ve been chatting, the robots have been blowtorching their way slowly through this thing. Like, they didn’t notice. Yeah. Yeah. Like, they didn’t hear until the robots were done and they pushed it through. Oh, crap. We need 

Craig:  to move 

Todd:  now. But it does allow them to sit around and chat a little bit and, have some great lines such as, 

Craig:  I guess I’m just not used Being chased around a mall in the middle of the night by killer robots. Yep. Yep. That’s that’s not common experience, I guess. And and other funny things Todd. Like, at first, the girls and the guys get separated. The girls are in the vents. The guys are doing their gun thing.   Eventually, they get back together, and, there’s lots of shootouts throughout. But at one point, they trap 1 of the robots in a The elevator that they have rigged up with, like, gas tanks, I guess. Mhmm. 

Todd:  Or those propane tanks. Yeah. 

Craig:  And they’re trying to they get it trapped in there, and they’re trying to hit the propane tanks. And Alison, the cute nice girl, grabs, like, the big 3 57 Magnum from one of the guys in, like, very dirty Harry style, like, points it with both hands and shoots And blows up, whatever it was they were trying to blow up, and somebody goes, wow. That was awesome. I was just like, my dad’s a marine. So I shoot 3, you know, magnums all the time. Just goofy stuff like that. Then they just get picked off. I mean, I was writing down Susie, they they try to attack the, robots with cans of gasoline.   That doesn’t work. 

Todd:  Yeah. They’ve made, like, Molotov cocktails out of them, and that doesn’t work. And then Sue Susie, the one who ends up getting burned up because, she falls, and she’s got Yeah. 

Craig:  She Gets hit, by a laser in the leg, and she falls. Her friends are about 5 feet away from her. They do nothing at all to help her. They just stand there and watch While she gets, I guess, the laser hits the gas can and she gets burned up. 

Todd:  Yeah. While the the robot in a rare moment of Accuracy. Yeah. It shoots the gas can right away. 

Craig:  Exactly. Then because Susie is dead, Greg, her boyfriend, gets all ticked off and kinda wants to go off rogue, and they’re all trying to follow him. He has the idea that they need to find, like, the central computer that controls the robot. They can get that shut down, then everything will be okay. So he takes off running, and they take off running behind him. He runs up to the top of the escalator on the 3rd floor And turns around, like, come on, you guys. The coast is clear. Meanwhile, the robot just rolls up right behind him, throws him off the balcony.   He’s done. Soon after, you know, again, it’s just running around. You know, there’s not much to describe. They’re running around. They run all around this mall. Linda, she gets killed by a laser. Walden Walden, her husband, has one of the weirdest death scenes. Walden sees I think that’s his name, the the mechanic guy.   He sees Linda get killed, and then, like, the way that 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. 

Craig:  How did it how did it play out? 

Todd:  He’s alright. So the robot actually got a little disabled because there was some electrical They shoot something? Or They set it up. Oh, yes. Yeah. That was strange. They set up a row of mannequins. Mhmm. And they Craig the the lid on the store or whatever, and there’s a row of mannequins there.   So the 2 robots are there, and they’re shooting at the mannequins, and they’re behind the mannequins shooting at them. And behind the mannequins themselves It’s something covered up by a sheet. Right. And they whip that off, and it’s a bunch of mirrors they’ve set up. And so, apparently, these lasers bounce off of mirrors. You’re right. These Killer lasers. They’ve gone through everything else, but mirrors hit the robot.   It hits the robot back. It’s short circuited, essentially, so it’s spinning and spinning. Chuck like an idiot because his girlfriend was the one who got just got shot, almost goes suicidal and, jumps on a security cart Yeah. Which is only about 20 feet away. Yeah. 

Craig:  From the robot. And it’s like the size of a Coffee table. I don’t know what he was playing. It’s like one of those things that you see, like, the security, like, driving the elderly around in a mall or something like that. 

Todd:  Eddie’s driving it towards the robot as he’s shooting at it. I don’t know if he thought he was gonna drive it past it. I have no idea. Even know why he thought that was a good idea in the first place. Right. He just Slowly drives right into it. Really slowly. Electrocutes himself 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  By contact. 

Craig:  So then we’re down to, Ferdie and Allison, and they go off. They’re still looking for the computer, and she says, we probably have better luck if we split up because that’s always a great idea in a horror movie. So they do, and he goes off looking one way. She goes off looking another way. She’s looking for this supercomputer, but apparently, she thinks she’s gonna find it in, like, these storage rooms that are full of junk. She gets cornered, by 1 of the robots, and she screams for Fertie. And he comes running, and he, like, distracts the robot away, and the robot starts chasing him. And, again, just he takes off, like, a fire extinguisher or something off the wall and tosses it at the robot, and, of course, it just bounces right off.   The robot picks it up and, I guess, with great force, throws it back at him, hits him directly in the chest. He falls over backwards, and you see blood coming out of his his head. And so I think that it’s one of those, oh, you’re Post to think that he’s dead, but it’s so obvious 

Todd:  he’s not gonna be We know he’s coming back. 

Craig:  Right. You know he’s gonna be back. 

Todd:  And these robots, I’m not sure how they sense life. I’m not sure how they sense Human life. If they’re distracted by mannequins and they drive up to this guy and think that he’s dead even though he’s not, and So they drive away and chase her, and then it becomes she’s the final girl, 

Craig:  we 

Todd:  think, and she gets chased all around. She has a pretty good stunt there too, and, apparently, she did her own stunts. 

Craig:  Oh, was that that fall? 

Todd:  Yeah. That fall from this from the 3rd, floor, I believe, all the way down onto a, in fact, when I was reading that when they set up this stunt, Jim Winooski, the director, volunteered to be first one to to do it as long as they did it from the 2nd story, and he did. He fell and got up and everything. Later learned that he broke a rib. Oh, wow. But he didn’t say anything to anybody. I’m like, yeah. 

Craig:  What are you gonna say? I broke a rib, but you’ll be alright. The robot’s chasing her all around at one point. She hangs from, like, the balcony. You know, this is a real mall. It was all shot in a real mall, and it’s I mean, it takes you right back 

Todd:  to the eighties. 

Craig:  You know, there’s there’s really not this at least as far as I know, there’s not the same kind of mall culture that there was when we were kids. No. You know, now with Amazon, People do all their shopping from their computer screen. But you just go 

Todd:  to a mall to hang out. Right. You know? You’d go it would be like a day thing. 

Craig:  Oh, yeah. 

Todd:  At least my family. Definitely. Go to church, then afterwards, we’d go to the mall. Right. 

Craig:  And eat lunch in the the food court. 

Todd:  Yeah. Wander around. 

Craig:  Everybody kinda go off Their own way. You kinda converge at different spots throughout the day. 

Todd:  It was kind of fun because it was its own little city that, I guess, parents felt okay with letting their kids run around in there. They might let their kids run around in the department store. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  It’s so much cooler than a department store because it is. It’s like a little city, and you have all these stores, and you have a food place, and you have a fountain, and you can sit and they even used to have concerts in malls. Remember that? That’s why I enjoy watching movies like this that take place in old eighties malls. Mhmm. And it Fulfilled into that fantasy that I always had as a kid that you probably did too of what would it be like to stay in the mall over the 

Craig:  next Todd have free Craig. Yeah. 

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. To just Everything. Eat this food and go into this store and do that. This movie, I think, taps into that fantasy a little bit, which I think for me, anyways, part of what makes Fun to watch. 

Craig:  It is fun to watch, but it definitely dates it. You know? It it it it shows our age for sure. 

Todd:  Oh, and some of the I mean, there are real stores in here along with the fake ones that go by in the background of the scenery. I thought part of the fun was just look, oh, I remember Florsheim shoes, and I remember this. And one Seen when she’s hanging from the balcony and the robots kind of patrolling back and forth, we get this shot. And in the background, one of the stores is clocks and music boxes. And I don’t think that’s a store that they created. Yeah. I think it was the actual store, and I thought, oh, how quaint. Yeah.   A store that would actually sell clocks and music clocks that you’ll never see today. 

Craig:  No. No. And it’s funny because I noticed that too, and I was just like you. I was really kinda trying to look just, you know, for nostalgia purposes, and some of them seem to be clearly made up, but some of them not. And I you know, that’s kinda surprising anymore. Corporations are really careful with their brands and and what they’ll allow to be shown on screen and whatnot, and Todd doesn’t seem like they really had any problem with that here. I mean, it was it was shot in a real mall. They were given permission to shoot overnight so long as they didn’t destroy anything and so long as anything, and so long as everything was cleaned up by the time that they left in the morning.   Yeah. And, I guess the maintenance people weren’t very happy about it, but, the owner of the mall Thought it was fun Yeah. And was was happy to to let them use it. 

Todd:  Well, you know, when you talk about mall culture, I like the way this movie starts out. I think the movie is clever in so many ways, making use of the limited budget that they obviously had. First off, I thought that the the very beginning part was Cool. How we think we’re watching the movie with this killer bot, but it’s actually a film strip that they’re showing these people at the security convention. But then after that, as the credit sequence goes on, we get what is supposed to be sort of a pastiche of mall culture. Right? There’s a woman carrying drinks, walking along through 

Craig:  the food court. 

Todd:  And it cuts to a kid’s skateboarding through the mall. And In the midst of all of this, like, funny things are happening. Right? Mhmm. Like, the woman, by the end of this, we keep cutting back to her, and she’s still getting bumped bumped around. And Then finally, she gets to the table, and that’s when she ends up losing the drinks, like, right in someone’s lap. 

Craig:  Which always happened. Right? Yeah. Exactly. Somebody was always dropping their tray in those they were so busy and, bustling. 

Todd:  There’s, like, a couple making out like crazy on a bench, and it pans over to an older couple on another bench, and she’s kinda looking at them. And so she turns around and starts to give, her husband a kiss, and I I thought that part was really fun. 

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, even the little stuff like, 2 of the girls, Allison and Susie, work in one of the restaurants in the mall, and so you kinda get a little glimpse at their waitress life and the kind of people Come in there. 

Clip:  Come on. Come on, sweetheart. Give it to me. Give it to me. What do you got? San Diego. 

Craig:  Can I get 2 Okaluchi belly busters, a double anchovy Pizza and an order of garlic logs? So gross. What if a hobby brain ordered that? Right over there? Oh, god. I should have known. That orca beach is here every night. Always trying to snag some skin. Play it safe, Allison. Serve it on its length if you get my drift. 

Todd:  Got it. 

Craig:  Thanks for the invite. The guys work in a furniture store, and, you kinda see their dynamic. You know, there’s Ferdy is, you know, the the nerdy one who’s really concerned about doing the job right, and the other 2 are like, oh, this is a stupid job who gives stuff. He ain’t gonna know Diddly unless you tell him. And you ain’t gonna tell him, are you? Hey. Look. Don’t force me to pull rank. Oh.   I’m shaking. 

Todd:  You know, Brennan, you’re becoming a real candidate for Prickhood. Look. Guys, this party is gonna happen, but we need a little teamwork. Okay? Besides, if the place looks like shit on money, it’s all our asses. You got the beer? Correct. Come on. The 

Craig:  The fridge is back. Alright. Good. So, yeah, it I for that reason, it is kind of a little time capsule, of a of a day gone by. 

Todd:  Yeah. It makes it fun, I think. 

Craig:  Great. Well, you know, so we’re we’re down to the final girl, and, basically, runs around. You know? She she does this fall from, like, the 3rd level. She lands in one of those, tent setups, just one of the little kiosks in the mall. And then she runs into a paint store. I don’t remember there being paint stores in the mall, but but okay. Yeah. 

Todd:  It was a different time. 

Craig:  Yeah. And she goes in in the course of about 15 seconds, opens up about 15 

Todd:  another one of those great scenes where cuts to the robot coming towards her, cuts to her opening 2 paint cans. Yeah. Cuts to the robot going towards her. It’s like, Please. This is I’ve seen this mall. The robot is not that far away. 

Craig:  Right. And And 

Todd:  I I’m sorry, but pink hands are sometimes really hard to over. A trigger. 

Craig:  And, the thing that cracked me up was, like, you know, everything else had failed. Nothing had stopped these robots. And what’s going to stop them? Arts and crafts. So she opens up all these takes a paint and and throws them all on the floor, like, underneath this big pile of paint. And she’s pouring turpentine and stuff down there too. And then she kinda does that, Come and get me, thing, and the robot comes in and and rolls right into her pile. She her her puddle. She sneaks around.   And then at some point, she had gotten the flare. When they were setting 

Todd:  up those Molotov cocktails She’s tucked tucked a flare down 

Craig:  her neck. Cleavage. Right? It’s a good place as any, I guess. As well. 

Todd:  Didn’t think to whip it out until now. Right. 

Craig:  And, she she takes it out and, lights it and Classic. You know, it says Have a nice day. And it throws it, into the puddle, and Explodes. Like, the whole store explodes, and then the robot is gone. And 

Todd:  then it’s like, oh, wow. This moment she walks away from the smoke, and Then you hear this, hey. She looks up, and there’s, her boyfriend waving Todd down at him, Firdie. Yes. 

Craig:  With a great big smile on his face. 

Todd:  Todd job, honey. Like, you’ve been watching her that whole time. 

Craig:  Yeah. He’s got a roll of toilet paper held behind his head, I guess, Soaking up the blood, but he’s fine. And then, like, they kind of come together in the big central lobby area of the mall, and they embrace, and they’re in love. And All of a sudden, it’s midday, apparently, because it’s bright as all get out 

Todd:  in there. We needed more light, for that final scene. 

Craig:  And then that’s it. Cut to credits. I mean, it’s that simple. It’s a it’s a simple goofy movie. Little goofy lines throughout. Yeah. I hadn’t seen this. I I know that I had seen it Because this is one of those movies we talk about this all the time.   You know, the eighties were such an excellent time for, box art for the VHS tapes, And this one is just permanently cemented in my mind. You know? It’s just a like an illustrated animated shopping bag Full of, like, dismembered body parts, like an eyeball hanging out. 

Todd:  At the top. Yeah. 

Craig:  And as a kid, oh my gosh. I just thought that was the coolest thing. I thought this is gonna be the best movie Ever. Yeah. And I saw it when I was a kid. I mean, I must have been really young, and I think I only saw that once. This was the 1st time I’ve revisited it since then, and it’s It’s something. 

Todd:  You you know what I overlooked on that box art always as a kid I never noticed, and I only noticed it while I was looking it online Todd, was that the hand holding The Bag. Bag is a robot hand. I mean, it’s not an accurate depiction of the robots in the movie, but it’s clearly making that connection. Did you ever notice I 

Craig:  don’t think I did. Think I 

Todd:  did either. 

Craig:  I looked it up last night when we were talking about doing this, and, I wanted to show my friend because he couldn’t remember. And, yeah, I noticed that too. 

Clip:  I am. 

Craig:  I don’t know. Surely, it was always there. 

Todd:  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Of course. Mhmm. But it was just not It’s not what drew your eye. 

Craig:  Right. Right. 

Todd:  The eye drew your eye. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And it did its job. I mean, I I wanted to see that movie so bad, and I I’m sure I finally just talked my dad into, to renting it for me. 

Todd:  Well, shopping mall is a clever title. It was originally called killbots Mhmm. And, released to the theaters as Roger Corman’s movies always were up until, about the nineties when everything kinda started to go straight to video, and it just didn’t do very well. And they chalked it up to maybe it’s the title. And the poster for it had the robots on the front and think about it. This was transformers time. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  They wondered maybe people were thinking that this wasn’t A, a horror film, but it was more of a kid’s, animated robot movie. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  So that’s when they changed it to shopping mall, and it actually did fairly well. So much so that they thought about doing a sequel after the rebound. 

Craig:  Oh, wow. 

Todd:  You know? Didn’t happen. Yeah. But apparently did fairly well on on VHS. You know? Yeah. 

Craig:  It’s wonderful. Surprise me. And, I mean, it was really low budget. So, I mean, if they made any money on it, I I have no idea what the the numbers are, but I think $800,000 or something budget, which is really low. 

Todd:  And you know that Roger Corman’s totally famous for that. He, to this day, claims that he’s never made a movie that didn’t make money. He’s the guy who would, make a movie under budget and, quicker. Mhmm. And he’d still have actors and people under contract, so he’d hire somebody to a quick whip up another script using the same actors, the same sets, the same locations, and make a and make a second movie. 

Craig:  Yeah. That’s funny. You told me that before, but I didn’t put the 2 together. 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s, it’s it’s interesting. I could see That was a kind of a dream of mine too as I was a kid, honestly. I I really wanted when I was thinking about being a filmmaker, my idea of a Filmmaker was, doing the more interesting films, you know, not the artsy kind of films. 

Craig:  It 

Todd:  was more about, let’s do some of these horror films, let’s do action movies, And let’s do them like Roger Corman did, you know, so we could really pump them out and and make them fun and exciting because that’s one thing his movies never are boring usually. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s It’s a very specific type of movie. It’s a drive in movie. It’s, we were talking about, you thought that you had seen it on USA up all night, which again, If you’re if you’re younger than 30, you won’t know what that is, but Gilbert Godfried and this busty blonde, what was her name? Rhonda Cheer. Ron De Sheer. 

Todd:  I would say. Up all night. 

Craig:  They would host these, I mean, it’s kind of an Elvira kind of thing, but it was campier, and they didn’t just Do horror. They did screwball comedies and stuff Todd. But it was really late night, like, 1 or 2 in the morning, on on cable, And they would host these Cheezeball movies, and it was so much fun. You know, it was exciting as a kid, you know, 8, 9, 10 years old to stay up late way past your bedtime I’m in, you know, your parents let you stay up late on the weekend and watch these goofy movies. I I remember so many times waiting and trying so hard to stay awake For it to come on, and then probably 20 minutes in the movie, obviously. It would always happen. 

Clip:  But it 

Todd:  was a ritual for me Todd, you know, my parents let me do it, and we you know, it was just right there on the sofa, get a a blanket and sit there. And, usually, they’d show 2, wouldn’t they? 

Craig:  I think so. Like, 1 or 

Todd:  2 back to back, and to try to stay up for the second one was almost impossible. Yeah. 

Craig:  But it’s that kind of thing. That’s what you’re getting into. You you know, it’s not High quality. The acting is not great. In fact, at times, it’s a little bit painful. Yeah. The dialogue, again, same thing, a little bit painful at times, But that’s cheesy and corny and kind of fun Todd. So you’re not going into this with high expectations. 

Todd:  Correct. And and there’s some interesting, actors in here. John Turleski, who’s the kind of the jockey, jerk jerky guy, Mike. I think he’s, you he’s on television. 

Craig:  Is he now? 

Todd:  He’s the one who you said, he looks really familiar to me. 

Craig:  He did. And I went and looked him up, and he’s got quite a few credits. Mhmm. Like, 40 some, acting credits, and I didn’t know 

Todd:  Todd lot of directing too. 

Craig:  Does he? Mhmm. I think that I rec he was in sitcoms in the eighties nineties. See us on the facts of life and, empty nest, and I imagine that’s probably where I know him from. I didn’t really recognize any of his movie titles. 

Todd:  Well, he has That face. You know? He’s got that jockey kind of good looking chiseled, could could probably play a really nice guy, could also play a real jerk. Right. 

Craig:  And he’s got great hair. He’s got, like, this great, like oh, I don’t know how to describe it. You know, just this huge head of soft flowing eighties. 

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. It’s like a football player here. Typical. And, apparently well, and again, if you’re familiar with Jim These movies, if you’ve seen, oh, I think vice squad, there there is a couple in the very beginning of the film who you never see again, but they’re sitting watching the presentation, And they’re, like, the comic relief. They’re quipping really bad lines back and forth to each other. It’s supposed to be funny, but it doesn’t really come across that way. You will see those 2 in a lot of these films.   And she, I can’t remember her name right off the bat, but she pretty much stars in the vice squad series of movies, which was Sort of a sex comedy police academy type knockoff, but with women, you know, busty women, basically. Yeah. 

Craig:  Are you talking about those 2 that were sitting in the audience in that opening scene, they looked familiar 

Todd:  to me. 

Craig:  And, you know, I wrote their names down because there’s a little bit of focus on them in the beginning. I thought that they were gonna be Central characters, but, no, they’re just there in the beginning, I think, for the comic relief. I was reading, the cast list on IMDB. Are those 2 did you say that they’ve repeated in several, like because there were a couple of characters that and I assume it’s probably them, that it said they’re playing the same roles, Actually, they’re playing the same characters. 

Todd:  It could very well be. I I don’t remember enough about all the other movies. 

Craig:  Right. And not that it’s important at all. 

Todd:  But she has a very striking Look to her. She has a, kind of a mannish face. She’s very chiseled, very distinct features and things. But she yeah. She’s in a lot. Vice Todd was another one of those movies that would come on USA Up All Night as well, and, she was the head police officer or something in those movies. And then apparently and we didn’t even learn this until we were going through the cast list, so we went back to the movie to see it. Angus Skrim Yeah. 

Craig:  Has a very, very Small role Oh, tiny cameo. And you wouldn’t even we didn’t I mean, we we’re fans of Angus Scrimm, big fans, and we Todd didn’t notice him at all. I mean, you you don’t see him up close. It’s really it’s kind of a faraway shot. From the back. But if you I mean, if you’re paying attention and you listen, it’s it’s Definitely him. I mean, he’s got that distinctive voice. Mhmm.   And so that’s that’s that’s cool. 

Todd:  And then one of the actors in here, I’m not sure which one, actually went on to do, I believe, Nightmare in Elm Street, dream warriors. Oh. And then the 4th one as well reprise his role, and I believe this was his his first film. 

Craig:  Gotcha. 

Todd:  So, 

Craig:  Dream Warriors, that was one of my favorite entries from that series. It’s a 

Todd:  good one. You know, I cannot wait for us to see The House Massacre 2. We might need to bump that up on the list after seeing this because to see it after this, these are the 2 films I would recommend that You would want to watch to get an idea of a certain kind of film that’s you don’t see made anymore. It’s camp it’s intentional camp, I should say. It’s really intended to be a comedy in many ways. Mhmm. But it surprises you because it’s marketed as pure horror. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And it makes for a fun film, and this is the kind of thing that Jim Wynarski really excels in and why he’s a director that I continue to come back to, not for his later stuff, but his earlier stuff is really quite fun. 

Craig:  That’s good. Well, we’ll have to check it out. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed, what you heard. You can find all of our previous episodes on iTunes or Stitcher. You can find us on Facebook. We’re on Google Plus, Every once in a while, we would love to hear your feedback. We would love to see you liking and sharing the podcast.   If, you enjoy it. Share it with a friend. But until next time, I’m Craig, and I’m talking with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Talk about disturbing. Craig’s sister, Kristen, joins us to talk about this controversial home invasion film.

Funny Games (2007)

Episode 29, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: I’m Craig.

Todd: And with us today we have our special guest, Kristen Kennedy. Hi Kristen.

Kristin: Hello Todd. 

Todd: Hi. And Kristen just happens to be somebody important in Craig’s life. 

Craig: Yeah, my baby sister. That’s 

Todd: true, 

Kristin: I’m here. 

Todd: So are you the one that Craig subjected horror films to growing up?

Were you also into that sort of thing? 

Kristin: I was into it by default. I wasn’t so much necessarily into it as I was just there and he made me watch it. So, uh, many, uh, days on the couch with the pillow to cover my eyes and, and things like that. But, he was definitely into it and, uh, I was subjected to it. No 

Todd: kidding.

You were very forgiving. She didn’t have 

Craig: much choice. I really 

Kristin: didn’t. There wasn’t a lot of choice. I don’t even know what was going on that we were so young and watching these horror films all the time. But it was happening. Regularly. Did he 

Todd: have to watch like romantic comedies or something to compensate?

No. I 

Kristin: was the silent partner. I just was along for the ride and I did what he told me to do. Oh my 

Todd: gosh. And so you wore Troll 2 out. Or Troll. Troll. Troll out, basically. Troll 

Kristin: 2, I think we just watched the once. It didn’t need a re watching. 

Todd: Oh my gosh. Um, so Craig cajoled you into coming and joining us here today.

He did. 

Kristin: I’ve been listening ever since you started and, um, So, I, I like the listening part. He said, do you want to come and be a, a guest speaker or person? I was like, uh, I don’t know if I’ll say anything. But, let’s go watch a 

Todd: movie. Now, did you choose this film or was this, uh, did Craig? 

Kristin: Sort of, kinda. He said, well, what movie would you want to watch?

I was like, I don’t know. I haven’t even really been watching horror movies lately. I married a guy who hates horror movies. It’s horror movies, and so really, I haven’t even been watching, sometimes I can get away with a suspense thriller type film. And since you all started doing this, and I’ve been listening, then I’ll say, okay Craig, send me that one.

I’ll watch it before I listen, so I’ve watched a few that way, but I haven’t been watching too many lately. Right. 

Craig: Right. So, but I wanted you to pick, because, you know, our, intense selection process. We decided to waive that this week. Um, and I really wanted to get you here and you said the types of movies that really get to you are not like monster movies and stuff like that, but things that could potentially really happen.

Yeah. 

Kristin: So I did actually, I did say this title, you know, when he first asked me, I was thinking, well, gosh, what were the ones we watched? We watched, you know, all the Friday the 13th all the Nightmare on Elm Street. Halloween, all those types of films that were big when we were growing up. Pet Sematary, really anything Stephen King, we did.

And I thought, but you know, when I want to watch a horror film or a suspense film or something like that, I really I guess I want to be scared or I want it to have some sort of impact on me and these kind of psychological thrillers are things that feel like they could really happen. Those are the ones that stick with me and really get under my skin.

And so for me to feel like it was worth watching, I feel like I need to kind of have that reaction. 

Craig: So, so you threw out the title, um, I didn’t have to say anything. I didn’t even know that you would have ever even heard of this movie. How did you? I 

Kristin: saw a preview for it at some point and thought, Well, that looks disturbing, you know, and I, uh, moved away from small town to a slightly bigger town and, you know, there are home invasions, so I’ve actually avoided this film for about a decade, um, but then I thought, well, I haven’t seen it, I don’t know that much about it.

I saw the preview. I haven’t read up on it. I’ve heard certain things about it, you know, that it’s disturbing and whatnot, but I really didn’t know much about it. So I thought it might be fun to sit down and watch one that I hadn’t seen before, didn’t really know much about beyond the preview and go 

Todd: from there.

Now, I’m in the same boat. I didn’t know anything about it either. It had come across my Netflix queue a couple times, and I’m not sure if it was this one or the The Austrian version, 

Craig: the original. Maybe we should let them know what we’re talking 

Todd: about. Oh yeah, uh, so this movie is Funny Games. Funny 

Craig: Games.

And this is the 2007 remake of 1996? 97 I think. 97? Yeah, I think you’re right. I think it was exactly 10 years. Um, it’s an American remake. It was originally shot in Austria. And, uh, the original filmmaker, what I heard, was that he really wanted this to be set in an American setting and he wanted it to reach an American audience, but the budget constraints didn’t allow for that.

So he made it in Austria and then I don’t know how the opportunity arose, but 10 years later, the opportunity arose, uh, for him to remake it. And he did and he remade it shot for shot. Really? I’ve not seen the original, but everything that I’ve read from people who have seen both say it is literally the same movie, just with different actors.

Oh my God. Um, and, and what I also read is a lot of people really prefer this one. Really? Um, yeah. Well, and maybe that’s just the American audience that I am reading because, you know, we’re lazy sometimes and don’t want to read subtitles or whatnot, but I, I, I had seen this a long time ago and I remember it really having an impact on me, but I only watched it the one time and maybe there was a reason for that.

So I was excited to come back to it too. Had you not seen it before tonight? No, 

Todd: never. No. Oh, wow. I knew nothing. I knew it was a home invasion film, and that was it. Gotcha. Uh, so, and, and I, there are a lot of home invasion films. It’s not really the kind of film I choose. I’m almost the opposite of you, Kristen.

When I’m watching a horror movie, I almost want to see something supernatural. To me, that’s a little more thrilling and exciting. Stuff that could really happen to me. Maybe it gets under my skin a little more. Yeah. And also, you know, where do you draw the line? And is this really even a horror film? Right.

Kristin: And I don’t know. I was reading a little bit. I didn’t want to spoil anything because I hadn’t seen it, but I was reading some interviews with Naomi Watts and she was sort of talking about how she kind of often does films that seem genre less. And how, you know, she did Mulholland Drive, and that was sort of her first one that kind of made her on the radar.

And that felt kind of genre less. It wasn’t really horror. It wasn’t really suspense. Yeah. What was it? I don’t know. I’ve seen it, and I have no idea. I couldn’t tell you what it was. Um, but she said this one’s kind of the same, you know. But she’s known for taking on roles that are really emotionally draining and require, um, just a lot emotionally.

Yeah. And I think this one fit the bill. 

Todd: Yeah, well yeah. No kidding. She didn’t get an Academy Award for this one, did she? No, I don’t think so. None of these movies are up for awards, but holy crap, what she had to go through. Yeah, 

Craig: the premise, I guess, is that, I mean, it’s really simple. You know, usually we spend a lot of time on plot.

I feel like we’re not going to have to do that because it’s a pretty thin plot, really. It’s like three sentences. You can describe it. Right, right. There’s this family, you know, they seem like, Upper crust. Yeah, upper crust. Um, and they’re going to their summer home. Um, they’re taking their boat and it’s a young couple.

George is the dad and Ann is the mom and they have played by Tim Roth, right? Um, and Ann played by Naomi Watts, right? And then they have one son who seemed to be what, like seven, 

Kristin: I’d say probably around 10. I have a son who’s almost eight. And I thought he’s, he’s younger than my son. Son, but not enough that it’s not making me really uncomfortable.

Yeah, 

Craig: yeah. And, and a dog. And uh, they’re going to their summer house and when they pull up, they pull up in front of a neighbor’s house and their neighbors are standing outside and with them are these two young men in, I thought they were caddies at first. They’re dressed in like, you know, these preppy white shorts and white sweaters and white gloves.

Todd: Um. But you see them from a distance through the gate. Right, right. It’s a very awkward situation. Scene. It’s awkward. Staging everything about it is awkward. Yeah, right. 

Kristin: Hey, 

Craig: that’s not fair. What practicing’s not fair. 

Kristin: You’re still on for 10 tomorrow, right? Still 

Craig: coming?

Uh, yeah, sure.

We have to launch the boat. Can you give us a hand in about 20 minutes? 

Todd: Yeah, sure. Yeah, I’ll be there. I’ll come over 

Craig: in 20 minutes. 

Kristin: Okay, great. 

Craig: See you then. Bye! Um, and when they drive away, Anne, you know, says, that was weird, you know, why were they acting weird? Yeah, 

Kristin: she did. She said, that was weird, and I just wrote, indeed.

Weird indeed. Everything about this film in the 30 seconds we’ve been watching has been 

Craig: weird. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so they, so they go on and they get there and they start unpacking and things. Um, the dad, um, Well, they say, when they were back at the neighbors, they say, we need help unloading the boat. So, um, the male, uh, neighbor Fred comes over with one of these young guys, and they help him get the boat in, and, uh, the dog doesn’t seem to like the The young guy.

Yeah, was that Paul? It’s Paul. We find out later that they’re well We don’t really find out anything. No, we don’t know what these guys names are But the names the names that they go by most commonly the main One or the one that I kind of think of as the ringleader is Paul and then there’s Peter Or 

Kristin: Tom.

Yeah, they call it, because when they said Peter and Paul, I was like, is this the biblical reference? 

Todd: Right. I can’t figure out. Is Mary gonna pop 

Kristin: in here at some point? Yeah, I didn’t know what they were doing because they kept saying different names. I couldn’t keep it straight. Right. Well, 

Todd: and I felt like, too, sometimes they were intentionally flipping their names.

Am I wrong 

Craig: about this? Oh, they definitely were. Especially Paul, it seemed like Paul was intentionally calling, Peter different names. Yeah. It had to have been intentional because everything is so contrived and that’s the thing. These boys we find out very soon are playing games with these people. Hence the title, funny games.

Todd: So they’re not so funny. No, they’re not funny at all. They’re not, they don’t even start out funny. No, and the interesting thing about this movie compared to a lot of films like this is that these boys even from the beginning It’s not like there’s a sudden point in the middle where you realize oh, they’re really nice and really polite deep down inside They’re evil from the beginning.

There’s something off about these kids. They’re overly polite. Yeah, and They seem to fit in with the surroundings because they’re dressed in those golf shirts and they have the the gloves on but they don’t Take the gloves off and I don’t know about you, but that was a little weird, right? Um, and they’re overly polite and well, basically Naomi Watts’s character Anne right is in the kitchen She’s cooking dinner And we’re subjected to these really long domestic scenes.

One take, one shot, camera doesn’t cut away of her talking on the phone and going to the door and chopping, washing lettuce and then going back and chopping things and then The other kid comes in, Peter, who we hadn’t seen before this just in the distance, 

Craig: just in the distance, right? and he shows up and look her son says there’s somebody here and She goes to the door and like he’s super polite, but like oddly like I don’t know There’s just something about them that seems off.

I mean we kind of knew what kind of movie we were getting into anyway Yeah, but But 

Kristin: even the son said, you know, when he came over and they’re helping him get the boat in about the friend, the neighbor that they knew, they said, he said, why is Uncle Fred act behaving so oddly or weirdly or something like that?

They noticed he was off, you know, because he’s being led by these guys who have Apparently been at their house for however many days and who knows what they’ve 

Craig: done to them. Well, and there’s a little bit of foreshadowing. Did you notice there at the very beginning, um, as they’re driving away, the little boy said, where’s Jenny?

And I guess Jenny was, and then he kept saying, Jenny said she was going to be here. She said she was going to be here as soon as we got here. So I’m presuming that was Fred and Eve, the neighbor’s daughter. 

Todd: Um, and I 

Craig: didn’t quite catch that. You’re right. A little bit of foreshadowing, we’ll get, we’ll get there.

Well, he 

Todd: comes in asking for some eggs. He said, Oh, Fred and, uh, Eve. And what’s interesting here too, is he starts calling them Fred and Eve, but then he corrects himself and says, Oh, Mr. So and so and Mrs. So and so. Yeah. So again, that’s a little off. Like he’s faking how familiar he is with them. The whole scene is just filled with dread.

Yeah. Isn’t 

Kristin: it? It’s super awkward, super uncomfortable. I just was thinking It just starts off awkward right away, but then, you know, even when the kid says, Mom, there’s someone at the door, he looks terrified. Yeah. And then there’s this really odd shot where it’s like through a valance or something where it’s kind of white and you can’t see his face.

Yeah. And they’re just sort of staring at each other. No one’s saying anything. And then it’s sort of like, Hi. You know, they have these very eerie, soft voices and Yeah, especially, especially Peter. And it’s just awkward the whole time. And I was thinking, I can feel right away this is awkward, and I don’t know, she invites him in, and it goes on and on with the eggs, and things get weird, and I’m just thinking, I would have just gotten out of there, you know?

Let’s walk outside now, just follow me outside. I mean, it 

Craig: starts out kind of innocently enough. So, how can I help you? 

Kristin: Tell your dad 

Craig: we’re eating in ten 

Todd: minutes! Well, he’s, 

Craig: I mean, Mrs. Thompson sent me. She’s cooking, and she ran out of eggs, and asked if you could help her out. Of course. How many does she need?

Four. Four? What for? Excuse me? What 

Kristin: for? What 

Craig: does she need the eggs for? I mean, what’s she cooking? Oh, I have no idea.

So, are they okay just like this, or do you need the carton? Whatever you want. And he takes them just in his hands, and he goes around the corner like he’s gonna leave. And you hear them drop. And then, 

Todd: she comes in to clean them up. And again, we have, you know, at the beginning of this, whole deal, I don’t, I mean, of course you noticed, we don’t see the, the characters for a while.

The opening of the film has this overhead shot of the car driving down the highway. And we hear dialogue in the car, and it goes, And then, it’s a close up shot inside of the car of just the stereo, and them putting CDs in. I don’t know about you, but I was getting really antsy, like, I wanna see these people!

Yeah. Like, show me these people! And, you finally do see the people, and all that we talked about goes on. But then, even when they come home, there’s a whole long sequence before the kid comes over, where they’re letting the dog out, and they’re walking the dog, and he’s taking his shoes off, and they’re setting things out around the house.

And you’re hearing the voices, but you’re not seeing them. And again, I don’t know about you, but that It’s just like, oh, show me the people already, you know, show me their faces. It’s 

Craig: really stylized, and it’s that way throughout. It’s not your typical cinematography where you’re following characters. You know, a lot, a lot of this movie, the action happens out of frame, and you’re, and, and we are often looking at one frame for a really long time.

Um, and I think that does a lot to build suspense. It makes it feel uncomfortable because you just want the camera to turn just a little bit. You want to see the people, you want to see what’s going on. Sometimes, sometimes you don’t want to see what’s going 

Kristin: on. Never quite know fully what’s going on. I think that’s why it’s unsettling.

You can hear some things. Sometimes it was almost like, I can’t tell exactly who’s talking or get that dog to stop barking. Yeah, It’s nerve wracking right from the beginning. 

Todd: Well, and when he drops the eggs on the floor, there’s this, again, extremely uncomfortable scene that we can all kind of relate to where she bends down to scoop up the eggs, but she only has a couple towels and she’s really bad with it and she can’t quite do it.

And it’s none of the panache of a quick sweep away that normal movies have. It’s a very real scene. But again, it’s lingering so long on there and you really want to see what is, what does her face look like? And what’s this other guy doing while he’s standing there? Is he staring at her? Is he looking around?

What’s going on? It’s almost like we all know That really socially awkward person who just stares just a little too long at you or around, doesn’t say anything. It’s almost like the camera is making us that guy. Yeah, 

Kristin: for sure. And they were. Socially awkward. I think that’s what you would just think. Like, they’re very socially awkward, maybe they only have really rich friends, and they don’t, you know, it’s just like, why is he standing there watching her?

Why isn’t he bending down and helping her clean up the eggs? Or why doesn’t he leave, you know? Why, yeah, why doesn’t he? I got it! See you 

Todd: later! He’s got nothing to say, you know, except this expectation that she’s just gonna get him more eggs. Right. Yeah, and an insistent expectation. 

Craig: Right, and he’s kind of pushy about it, but pushy in, like, that pushy way.

Passive aggressive, polite way, like, Well, I’m just asking you for eggs. I don’t really understand what the big deal is. And so she, you know, she’s irritated, and not only that, but at some point, He knocks her cell phone in the sink. In the water. Yeah, in the water. It’s like, Oops, sorry. And she’s like, Uh, okay, 

Todd: I guess.

Kristin: Yeah. And that’s the point where you start to notice she’s irritated and uncomfortable. And you would be. Right. And he’s just sort of like, Okay. Can I get those eggs now? You said you had a dozen, right? Right. 

Craig: So she sends him, not very happily, but she sends him away with four more eggs in a carton. And he goes out, and you hear the dog barking, and then you hear the door open back up again, I think, and she goes around the corner, and both boys are there now.

Is 

Todd: that right? Yeah, the other boy comes in. Oh, because the dog was barking or whatever. So he’s just standing there. You don’t hear him come in. You just see that he’s inside 

Craig: now. Yeah, and they weren’t invited in. You know, it’s just weird and creepy. And they say, well, the dog chased us up here. The dog scared Peter and he dropped the eggs.

And 

Kristin: Now we need more eggs. Basically. Yeah. Yeah. And she’s like, I want you guys to go. You know, at this point, she’s, she’s starting to feel like it’s uncomfortable. I’m wondering, where’s your husband and your kid? You know, if there are these creepy boys around, although I guess they don’t know they’re creepy.

Right. 

Todd: Now, is this the point where the, no, not yet. 

Craig: No, well it was right around here some well, okay So I think that the the husband comes up and she is trying to get them out like at this point She is not worried about being polite anymore. And she is physically trying to remove them and that’s when the husband comes in We throw them out.

Good that you hear mr. Farber. That’s her name. Isn’t it Barbara? Yeah, Fred. Mr. Thompson told us Oh, what’s going on here? Your wife is under the wrong impression. I’m happy that you’re here because I’m certain that you can help us figure out this misunderstanding. George, 

Kristin: please! Dad, I can’t! 

Todd: Just go, please.

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, 

Craig: hey, hey, hey. 

Todd: This 

Kristin: is 

Craig: ridiculous! I can’t believe this! Honey, do you mind? No, he’s fine, he’s fine. May I please explain what happened? Please do. Mrs. Thompson sent me over to ask for some eggs. 

Todd: Your wife gave Peter the 

Craig: eggs, but unfortunately they broke. And then she gave me another four eggs, but the dog jumped on me.

Now, you had a dozen, you’re going shopping on Monday anyway. We just want the eggs, that’s all. Can you tell me what’s going on here?

Todd: Honey, can you just tell me 

Craig: what’s going on? 

Todd: Just give 

Craig: them to him. Can I have them now? Hold on a moment. And if it’s just about some eggs, why are you so angry? Look, I’m not going to justify myself in front I asked you to throw them out. Maybe I have my reasons.

Do what you want. I’ve had enough. Man. 

Kristin: And I was thinking, if I told my husband to get him out of here and he was like, No, hang on a second. There’d be a problem, you know. Obviously, I’m uncomfortable with these boys. But I can understand he’s trying to be polite. They, you know, they were with his friends.

I’m sure he’s thinking, I don’t want to, you know, cause a problem with our neighbors or our friends. It’s, it’s getting more awkward by the 

Craig: second. Yeah, and at some point in there, we kind of skipped over it, one of the main guy, uh, Paul, um, admires the dad’s golf clubs, and asks if he can go out and swing it, and she’s like, I guess, you know.

Um, and he goes out, and the dog is barking, and everybody’s hearing the dog bark, and then all of a sudden the dog stops. We, as the viewer, have a pretty good idea of what’s happened. 

Kristin: That’s a poor dog. As soon as he came on, I actually wrote down, That dog’s gonna die. You know, you just, I felt like, and that was something in the beginning, You were talking about those long shots where it’s just like, Here’s where all the shoes sit.

And here are the golf clubs. I kind of felt like they were giving us the layout. They’re showing, this is where some bad stuff’s gonna happen. And this is where some bad stuff’s gonna happen with the golf clubs. And here’s this dog, he’s not gonna be around It kind of felt like it’s setting it up so that we can get a lay of the land and we can see how everything’s going to go wrong in this film.

And just an interesting tidbit, since we know that, um, they did this move, this remake shot by shot. I actually saw too that they, um, used the, the blueprints from the, the original. And so they made sure that even though the house was Americanized or a little different, the proportions were all still exactly the same and the floor plan was still the same.

Um, 

Todd: That makes sense, because actually the kitchen seemed a little strange, uh, to be right off of the, uh You know, what do I know about Austrian kitchens or whatever, but you know, it did seem a little European ish to me, the way the layout might be. 

Craig: Eventually, you know, when she tries to get them out, um, the husband kind of just says, well, my wife’s really not feeling well, but I don’t have all the facts, so I really can’t mediate.

It’d probably just be better if you leave. And, um, they, they want the eggs. Yeah. 

Kristin: And so they just go up to him kind of with their hands outstretched, like, well, then give me the eggs. 

Craig: Yeah. And he won’t. And eventually, um, Paul, his polite demeanor starts to break, and he starts to be a little bit more aggressive.

And He gets in his face, basically. Yeah, he gets in the dad’s face, and George, the dad, says You need to watch your tone with me, young man, or something like that. And what is, what does he respond? Something 

Kristin: about, you need to watch yourself with me or I’ll break you, or old man, or something to that 

Craig: effect.

Yeah, I’ll break your eggs, old man. Right. So, so George slaps him across the face. Yeah. Um, and Right. Um, Peter, the other one grabs one of the clubs from the golf bag and just hits the dad right in the leg. But again, we don’t see it, right? I didn’t see it. It’s off screen. You hear it and you hear the dad go down.

Um. 

Kristin: And the poor son is right there. Right there. And I think Ann wasn’t right there. No, she wasn’t there. But 

Craig: she comes back. Right. And that is just, I think. That was the point. That’s, that’s when, um. Paul starts talking to them and says something like, we’re going to play a game. And then we are sitting here and there it’s been storming in, in our town tonight.

And, uh, right at that moment when he, it’s a closeup right on his face, he’s looking almost directly into camera and it says, we’re going to play a game and boom, the power goes out. And it testifies to the tense, of this movie because I think all three of us jumped. Oh, 

Todd: we totally 

Kristin: did. I was checking my heart rate on my Fitbit.

I think I just got a mini heart attack. Was that a part of the 

Todd: movie? No. Yeah, it was amazing how the tension could build in this scene that takes place in broad daylight, right there at the entrance to the house where anybody could walk out a door with three With even two guys who are outnumbered. I mean, one of them’s a kid, but still I think the polite society, we try to be somewhat trusting of each other.

We try to, and I think also this upper crust family figures just in the back of their head. I think it’s their default mode that anybody who is here in our gated community is somehow cool and clear and safe. And so. Everything about the movie, except for that weirdness and oddness that gets inserted, says there are 15 ways out of this, and it should generally go okay.

Kristin: Right. They’ve had friends stop by, and I think, you know, you mentioned the gated community, and at one point she said, Ann says, How’d you get in here, by the way? And he says, Oh, there’s a hole in the fence. You know, that might be my first step. Like, so Fred told you to crawl through the hole in the fence rather than calling us to ask for eggs.

Um, so I think, you know, there were some odd things going on beforehand. But, 

Todd: uh, yeah. That she just dismissed, right? 

Craig: She did. Yeah, and from that point on, these boys just play these sick, psychotic games with these people. I mean, I was trying, like, the first one’s a guessing game. And, uh, Paul pulls the golf ball out of his pocket and drops it, and says, what is that?

And none of the family says anything, and he says, come on, you know, what is it? And the dad says, a golf ball. And he says, why was it in my pocket? And you see in Naomi Watts face the realization of what’s happened. None of them say anything, and eventually Peter says, because you never hit it. And Naomi Watts says, where is he?

She knows that he’s used the golf club to kill their dog. And then so Paul takes her outside and plays warmer, colder with her to show her where the dead dog is. And he’s like, Colder, colder, 

Kristin: cold. And really, I think that’s the first time, too, that we get the full on look into the camera. Yes. And we’re seeing, okay, this is not going to be a typical movie.

They’re breaking the fourth wall kind of a thing. And, and I guess it’s kind of subtle at that point because he could be looking back. We don’t know if the rest of the family is there. But it’s the first time it’s directly into camera and kind of a surprise. 

Craig: Right, like he’s direct, right, like he’s winking at us, the viewer.

Yeah, 

Todd: he’s kind of trying to pull us to his side, and I think that’s part of the point of this film is, Isn’t this what you guys want? Isn’t this what you came here to see? Right? So yeah, that was also makes one fairly uncomfortable. 

Craig: Yeah, right. I mean, and that’s the thing, you know, they, this kind of comes up several times, but the guy who directed it also wrote it, and he has said outright in interviews that this is his commentary on the way that we consume violence in art and film and whatnot.

And I think it’s really a criticism of You sick bastards. Why do you want to see people getting brutalized and murdered, you know, for entertainment? Why is that entertainment? And I think that that’s part of the reason that he made the decision not to show a lot of the brutality and violence on screen.

Instead, you just kind of see the aftermath of what happened. Yeah, it’s 

Todd: an interesting way of getting around that because that criticism of a person who’s trying to make that point is always, Yeah, but aren’t you feeding into it? You’re making this movie. You’re including all this violence. I think back to Martyrs.

Yeah, and I feel like that’s a big portion of a point that martyrs is trying to make yet martyrs You have to sit through and watch these people get getting horribly tortured Whereas in this case you never have to see it You just get to hear it 

Craig: and imagine it which doesn’t make it any less uncomfortable.

No, no, 

Kristin: not at all And I think to you know, everyone that I had talked to About this movie too and said it’s so violent. It’s so disturbing But then I wondered do they even remember you don’t actually see it, you know You see some things after the fact, but really you only see one thing and that’s later That it’s kind of erased sort of so right You don’t you don’t actually see it you see the aftermath sort of not really a whole lot But you can hear things and I think it’s worse.

I mean, I think what you can imagine is worse than what it would actually be. Right. 

Craig: I think so too. And I think that it was maybe more effective because we’ve seen that before. You know, we’ve seen these home invasion movies before. We’ve seen the people get beat up. This is unexpected. It takes us out of our comfort zone.

And I think it definitely has an interesting effect. And don’t 

Todd: you, didn’t you Admittedly have that feeling too. Like I wanna see it. Like, no, go back and show 

Kristin: me . I 

Todd: didn’t, I didn’t. I mean, not like I really Oh, show me that. But like, uh, I wanna see what’s happening or I’m not sure what happened. I’m not, yeah.

I don’t know. I have to admit there’s this part of me that I don’t have this bloodlust anything. Right. But I, I did kind of want to just like in the beginning where I kind of wanted to see their faces, kind of wanted to see their reactions. Well, I kind of wanted to know for sure what was going on. 

Craig: Right, and I think that that is probably part of his point, is that why do we have that morbid curiosity?

And I totally know what you mean. It’s like, you know, a car accident. You can’t look away. You look. Um, and uh, this kind of doesn’t allow you to do that. That makes it doubly uncomfortable. 

Todd: Yeah. Well, and, and they even make some comments here that are directed, clearly directed more toward the audience than to us, or at least explicitly stating the theme, right?

Part of their playing with them is also this excessive politeness, and they’re playing Almost pretending like they’re good guys and like they’re being nice to them. And, and not even in that way where if you’re, if you’re good and you cooperate and bad things won’t happen to you, almost in a way that the whole time they’re dangling this carrot in front of them of doubt that maybe we’re going to get out of this.

Okay. Until they turn to them and say, we’re going to make a bet. Right. 

Kristin: And I kept trying to figure out, and I think that’s the point, I kept writing, What are the rules? What are the rules? Because when I would think, I would kind of figure it out, they’d break the rules. Or, um, you know, they, even at one point, One of the guys, and I think it was, um, Paul, said something about they’re doing something to preserve moral dignity.

And here they are, all in their white, and they never curse, and they speak very politely. And they are very polite the whole time, even when they’re brutal, they’re very polite. And if, if they, if the Anne, or George, or whoever, It doesn’t act polite, that’s when they’re sort of brutalized, and so it seems like they’re trying to have a sort of commentary on that.

Well, and 

Todd: I think he even says, like, because I wrote this down, it’s easier when things are polite. Right. 

Craig: I wrote that down too. I was like, oh, it just gives you the willies. Yeah. Um, I, I mean, and, and from this point, really they’re just torturing these people. I mean, uh, the dad’s leg is broken, they are, you know, they’re Killed the dog.

They killed the dog. At one point, the little boy gets away and runs to a neighbor’s house, but they’ve already killed the neighbors too. Paul, uh, finds him and brings him back. I mean, there are so many times, you know, the kid gets away, and you’re like, please kid, just run, just keep running and never stop.

I mean, it even 

Kristin: made me write down, I need to tell my kid, just run, run as far as you can if anything ever happens. And, you know, I work in an elementary school and we have to practice intruder drills. And we tell the kids, run, run until you can’t see anything, run. We will find you wherever you end up. It’s better to find you far away in a bush somewhere than to, you know, have you here with the bad people.

And so it just made me think. These are things that you have to somehow, as a parent, not really scare your child into, you know, talking about those kinds of situations that hopefully you’ll never encounter, but Man, I want my kid to know, don’t worry about me. Yeah. Run. You know, you could see this kid struggling with my mom and dad are in there.

Should I climb the fence? Should I stay close? What should I do? 

Todd: So you’re saying it would be instructive to show this film to your children.

Well, it is interesting and you are sitting there going, climb the fence. No, don’t, don’t come back down. Don’t, don’t go back in. No, don’t go in the corner. No, don’t do everything. Uh, but you kinda know that he’s not going to make it anyway, simply because these guys he’s so unconcerned that he’s taken off.

Craig: You, right, right. Yeah, I mean, I expected, I guess I expected him to get caught even though I really didn’t want him to, this cute little kid, and he was so scared, and that little actor did such a good job. And that’s heartbreaking. I know, and that, what Naomi Watts I think talked about how difficult it was for her, who is the lead actor, the dad?

Oh, 

Todd: Tim Roth. Yeah. Yeah, 

Kristin: Tim Roth. Yeah, he, I mean, I was reading about, he said that it was so. horrible making this film that he will not watch it. It has not watched it. Really? Naomi Watts really said, you know, I’ve done a lot of difficult films that were really emotionally demanding and I just find ways to take myself out of it.

And the director was really great. We would find moments where we needed to escape. Sometimes we just had to get off set for a while. Sometimes we would just make a really inappropriate joke or you know, we would find ways to deal with it And she said, you know, I can go home and not take it home with me But it doesn’t seem like Tim Roth could do that.

I mean, he has not 

Craig: watched it Well, and and he has said that part of the reason was because the actor who played his son Reminded him very much of his own son. Oh, yeah, and I can see how that would be terrible You know, they they bring the son back and of course, this is after you said that thing about preserving moral old or something like that.

That was when they put a pillowcase over the kid’s head and they made the mom take her clothes off. 

Todd: You don’t want to hurt the kitty cat, right? Leave him alone. 

Craig: Exactly. Daddy would like to play too.

What are we waiting for? Tell your wife not to be shy. It’s silly. I’m sure she doesn’t have jelly rolls. Please leave 

Todd: him alone. 

Craig: You just have to tell her to take off her clothes. Please. Take off your clothes, 

Todd: honey. 

Kristin: God, that was the most horrible for me to watch, seeing that poor kid struggling to breathe under this thing, and I, I remember thinking, cause the husband is there sort of looking at her, and she’s looking to him, and he’s saying, you know, take off your clothes, they’re sort of making the husband tell her, and I was thinking, nobody’d have to tell me.

You know, as a mom, I’d be stripping my clothes off, whatever I could do, and I had to, you know, I kept thinking over and over, Of course, you never know what you would do in that situation. But I kept thinking, someone messes with my kids. I’m going to do everything I can to get my kid out of that situation.

And that was something, too, that Naomi Watts had said. She said, you know, I wanted to believe that I could have got my family out of that situation. But you don’t know. You just have no idea what’s going to go on and that kind of thing. Well, 

Todd: they were so paralyzed throughout the whole thing. And I think that comes forward toward the end, when the husband is talking with his wife, when the killers have ostensibly left.

Unfortunately, the kid has been 

Craig: killed. Yeah, they kill the kid first. Which is so weird. It is. I mean, it defies convention. You always think the kid is going to make it. But I think that that’s what they were going for. I think he was trying to defy convention and Peter, no, Paul, the main guy, even comments on it.

He said, what are you doing? You don’t kill the, you don’t kill the kid first. Uh, don’t you know anything about timing or something like that? Um, and it’s like, he’s playing this thing out. And he says stuff like that a couple of different times. Um, after they kill the kid, They leave. They say, Oh, time for us to go.

We gotta go. We’ll put the pups away. See 

Todd: you later. Door shuts and they can hear the car drive off. 

Craig: And that is where you just see, again, it’s one of those still frames of just the room, and you see blood on the TV and on the wall. You see the husband’s legs on the floor coming out of one side of the couch.

Everything’s kind of obscured by the couch. Naomi Watts is, uh, kneeling. She’s bound, hands and feet are bound together. In her underwear. 

Kristin: In her underwear. You couldn’t get more vulnerable 

Craig: than she is in that moment. And you see the, you know, the kid’s legs over by the TV and that’s where the spray of blood is.

Now at first, I remember seeing this the first time. It appeared that they shot the kid and I couldn’t believe it. But then I also thought that maybe they had killed them both. 

Todd: I thought so too. It plays some games with you by showing you the father’s legs, but you don’t hear him and he 

Craig: doesn’t 

Kristin: move. And there was only one, you know, we only heard one shot 

Craig: fired.

There was only one shot, but then you heard kind of what it sounded like. That’s kind of disgustful. Which I can only imagine is the parents doing whatever they can. I mean, there’s nothing that they could do. I mean, the dad has this terrible broken leg. She’s completely bound. You know, her hands are together, her feet are together.

And it’s 

Todd: That is a long scene. 

Craig: And it’s so painful. 

Kristin: And the TV has been on. It had been very loud the whole time too. So there’s all this extra noise and it’s just It’s hard to watch on many levels, but then too you feel so aggravated by the noise and everything and you almost feel like, you know, one of the first things Naomi Watts does is she sort of tries to maneuver herself over to the TV to just turn the darn TV off so there’s not that extra noise.

Craig: And then there’s that horrible silence. 

Todd: You know, when the camera is away is when the physical pain happens. But the emotional pain is what the camera lingers on, and it forces you to be a voyeur and to stare and, and live through this pain, watch these people go through this pain. That was a terrible scene.

That scene was at least five minutes long. Oh, it was long. Of her struggling and getting out, and it’s not just of her physically struggling, but it’s of her mentally getting the will. To get up, and to do these things, and to move around, and then getting her husband up, and Right. You know, another scene shortly before the kid was killed, when they track him down, is this look of terror in his face when he’s cornered with the gun.

And the tears are streaming down his face, and that lingers for so long on that. It’s super uncomfortable. 

Craig: Yeah, it’s like, okay, you like to go pay movie to see people get killed. Now we’re gonna make you consider the actual ramifications of something violent like this happening. Try to feel what they’re feeling.

And that is why that scene, you know, I don’t have kids, but I can only ima What could you I think you turned to me and said, at that point I 

Kristin: said, well for one thing I noticed right away, as she’s struggling to get to the TV, as she’s struggling to get to her phone, Feet because her, I mean her feet are taped together.

Mm-Hmm. really close together and you know, her arms are behind her back. She never once looked at the kid. Mm-Hmm. . No. And I thought, there’s no way you could Mm-Hmm. if you were going to get outta that and stay conscious. Mm-Hmm. , um, you couldn’t look. And I, I just really, I think I was holding my breath that whole time and she was trying to stand up and she’d fall down and she’s, you can tell she’s trying to fall in a way that she’s not gonna see the kid or.

I don’t even know if she knows if her husband’s alive at that point. 

Craig: Right, right. And then he gets himself set up, and then I feel like he kind of starts sobbing. And it’s, you know, it’s that kind of sob where you just, you don’t even have the breath for it. And, um, she runs back in, we, you know, we presume, we assumed she was going to the kitchen to get a knife.

take her tape off, which she had, and she runs back in, and she just gets down on the floor with him and embraces him, and they’re just holding there in that embrace for a good thirty seconds or longer, and it’s just agonizing. I mean, you just can’t even imagine what they must be feeling or thinking in that moment.

Todd: Yeah, and it, this whole sequence really conjures up these conflicting feelings, right? You have the feelings of guilt, you have the feelings of sadness, you have the feelings of putting yourself in their shoes, and the, you know, vicariously living this grief through them. But then there’s also this, this nagging part of you that’s like, you guys need to get 

Kristin: out!

Get out there! And I, but I remember I did, I turned to Craig and I said, you know, as a parent though, We assume that’s their only child. That’s the only kid that was with them. And in a way you’re sort of like, what does it matter now? You know, we just watched that kid get killed in front of us. Oh, well, whatever happens to us, you know, that’s kind of when you’re a parent, it feels like very much your life is living for your kid a lot of the time.

And so it would be very hard to just think, okay, well, we need to run now. But at the same time watching it, I was thinking, get out, get a move on. I know your leg hurts, but you would think you could get out. Walk on 

Craig: it for a little while. And, and that’s, you know, that’s what they do. They, they start to get up and start to get ready to leave.

And I felt like this part, you know, the whole time I’m thinking, Get out, get out, get out. But at the same time, I’m thinking, If I were in this situation, I might be doing the same things that they were doing. 

Kristin: Well, and he told her, You gotta go. You know, his, his leg, he’s realizing he’s too hurt. He doesn’t think he can make it.

He’s gonna hold him back. You know, there’s a whole bit about the cell phone, they try to get the cell phone to work that’s been dropped in 

Craig: the water. Well, and like it comes on and so they keep trying to mess with it. And I can imagine that I would do that. Like if, if I got that cell phone to work and I thought there was some hope that it might actually work, I might have lingered a little bit longer 

Kristin: than I should have.

But he says to her, you know, you’ve got to go. And I remember thinking, I don’t want to be the one to go. You know, you’d be, I know they supposedly left, but they’re probably out there. They came before. I don’t want to run out there and be by myself. 

Craig: And you can, I felt like I could see that in her face. The reluctance, like she didn’t want to go by herself, but there was no other choice.

Todd: She ends up, uh, leaving. After, after the struggle with the cell phone, he’s propped up on a chair. He manages to drag himself, meanwhile, and I think put a blanket over the kid. And then she goes out by the, she goes to the next door neighbor, and she yells through the gate, and they’re not there, and she’s struggling down the road.

It’s the middle of the night at 

Craig: this point, yeah. Mm 

Todd: hmm. And, uh, a car starts to come by. And again, you’ve been in this situation a hundred times before, when you’re looking for a car and you’re not sure it’s the right one. Cause you, every car looks the same when just the headlights are barreling straight towards you.

But she hides behind a tree, because it could be them coming back. And as soon as it passes by and it’s not, she runs out, and of course she can’t flag him down. Then another car comes, and just when we’re about to see whether it’s them or not, it cuts to the guy. And 

Craig: you can see, God, I just think she did such a good job, and I’m sure the direction and the cinematography had something to do with it too, but you can see that conflict in her face.

Do I take the chance? You know, the last one was safe. If I had taken that one, I could, you know, be out of here. Do I take the chance? And, and I’m sitting here thinking, I don’t know either. I don’t know what you 

Kristin: should do. I don’t know either, but I’m, I’m a baby. And so I think I would have still hidden and then just kept running for houses or something.

But it just goes to show you, you know, we have these gates, we have all these security systems to keep people out. But then, you know, that’s kind of her biggest problem is she can’t get in anywhere to get help. There’s There’s so much security and she can’t get somewhere. She should have 

Todd: taken those wire clippers with her and cut the neighbor’s fence.

Yeah. Right, right. What was she 

Craig: thinking? Well, it was them. In the car. And they, and they get her. And they bring her back. And I mean, this is really, this is endgame. I mean, the, the main guy, Paul. Basically says, you know, they do the counting off thing again to see who’s going to go first. And Peter, who is doing the counting, messes it up several times and has to start over several times.

So again, you know, it’s just this long, tense moment. But eventually it comes down to it’s going to be the husband, George. They tell Anne. Now we get to play a game again. It’s called The Loving Wife. Otherwise known as whether by knife or whether by gun Losing your life can sometimes be fun. Come on. Don’t fall asleep.

You have to play the game Otherwise, I have to gag you again, and you don’t like that. Do you? And the game is you get to choose how he dies. Do we shoot him or do we stab him to death? And like as they have been doing this whole time You They force these people to participate and there’s part of me That almost just wanted her to just be defiant and just refuse.

But again when she refuses We don’t see it, but we hear it. One of them stabs the husband, and he’s moaning and clearly 

Kristin: in agony. And she did refuse once, I think, in some way, and they ended up punching her in the stomach, and it was kind of the first time they had been violent to her. And so I think it was kind of sh And they kind of threw the kid on them, and so it was showing, all right, they’re not gonna just beat up the dad.

Right. You know, that’s It’s anything goes, kind of a deal, and we didn’t mention this, but at some point, and I think it was before the son even died, or no, no, no, it was right after they shot the son, you know, there’s kind of this scuffle, and you know, Paul is saying, oh, what’d you do that for, what’d you do, the boss is going to be so mad.

Yes. And I’m wondering, who 

Todd: is the boss? I know, yeah. They dropped the eggs on the floor or something again. He said, oh, the boss is going to be mad because we’re supposed to He stressed that we need to keep the carpet clean. 

Craig: He was talking about I think he was talking about Peter. Or no, Paul. That was Peter that said it.

I think he was talking about Paul. Really? Because Paul had said when he walked out, he said Remember, because What’s his name? The other one was getting ready to kill somebody and he said, don’t know. He said, if you get bored with them, when he ran off to chase the kid, um, when Paul ran off to chase the kid, he said, if you get bored with them, just dump a bucket of water over his head, but careful not to mess up the rug.

And then later, uh, Peter drops the eggs and he says, Oh, he specifically said, don’t mess up the 

Kristin: rug. But then I thought it was kind of the, the ringleader guy who said the boss is going to, 

Craig: Oh, maybe you’re right. Maybe I missed it. Like it was, I 

Kristin: couldn’t figure out then. Who is the boss? And, and I don’t think.

Tony Danza. Yeah. As soon as I said that, I was thinking, who’s the boss? Um, oh, if only Tony Danza were a part of this film, it would have been very different. Um, but I couldn’t figure it out. And I, maybe we’re not supposed to, maybe it doesn’t matter. And 

Craig: well, cause they’ve been lying through the whole time.

I mean, they, we don’t know if these are their real names, but Paul tells, you know, all these silly backstories that are totally conflicting. And he, he even says, I’m lying. All of that was a lie. So we can’t believe anything. 

Kristin: They say addicts and then, or that, you know, the one guy sleeping with his mom, he’s actually white trash.

And there are all these different backstories he gets. And sometimes they’re funny. It’s kind of a nice. Relief for a second, an uncomfortable laugh, I 

Craig: guess, but I almost skipped over it because we were talking about they were making, they were forcing her to make the decision and he’s kind of, he’s playing with her, trying to get her to make this decision and for the first time.

We see some violence on screen and it was, it happened so quickly while he’s playing with her, talking to her quietly, Naomi Watts, and really super fast jumps down to the coffee table where the shotgun is laying and pulls it up and shoots. Right through the chest, he, we see this, this is the first overt violence we’ve really seen.

He flies up against the wall, um, and he’s clearly dead, um, clearly dead. And I’m thinking, no matter what happens, thank God, you know, one of them’s dead. At least she got one of them. Um, and then, this I think is the most controversial part of the movie, and a part that people, um, Complain about really yeah 

Todd: That’s when Paul was running around and he finds the remote control.

Where’s the remote? Where’s the remote? Mm hmm picks it up hits the back on and it literally rewinds the film in front of us To the point before that happens so that they can replay it and he grabs the gun just in time before she does it. 

Kristin: Right. And he says to her too, you’re not allowed to break the rules right after that.

He’s 

Todd: broken the rules, yeah. And you know, I actually really thought that was ingenious. As far as trying to get your point across. Here was the violence you really wanted to see right and that is denied 

Craig: to you. Yes. Uh huh. Yeah Yeah, and but it is frustrating because you you want her to get away and again it’s kind of defying formula because usually There’s one person, no matter how much they go through, even if they don’t necessarily overcome their pursuer, they get away, usually.

Kristin: Even if they’ve lost everything. Right. You’re still holding out hope that, that one person’s gonna make it. Yeah. They’re gonna have a really screwed up life, but they’re gonna 

Craig: make it. But instead, you know, he forces her, well I, I don’t, at that point I think that he just shoots her. Yes, but before, before that, when he was toying with her again, we got another one of those shots where he looks directly into camera and says, you guys want, uh, a good ending, right?

With plausible plot points, right? And then he goes back to her again. It’s like, this is what you want, right? This is what you want. And it’s, it’s creepy. 

Kristin: And you know, he, right before that, right before when she grabs the gun, it’s like what finally sets her off is they, they keep, Messing with her, you know, they say say any prayer say it perfectly and you get to decide what happens and she’s like I don’t know any prayers, you know, and and so they give her this really short easy one And so she says it and then they say, okay, that was just practice now It’s like she did what you said, it doesn’t matter It doesn’t nothing’s gonna matter and I think she realizes that and that’s when she grabs the gun and of course that doesn’t Matter 

Craig: for us, right?

Yeah, they shoot him and then this is pretty much the end of the movie. It’s morning by this time. And, uh, we see the three of them, the two boys and, and, and rain slickers going down to the boat where the boat is docked and, uh, they get in the boat. Um, again, there was a red herring kind of planted early on.

The dad had needed a knife for working on the boat and it had gotten left there and she gets sat down right where it was. Um, and she does pick it up and start to try to, uh, cut the knife. But. They see her right away and just take it away. Like it’s like they give you, Oh, there may still be a shred of hope.

No, 

Kristin: no. And they even commend her for her effort. So that’s Olympic spirit or something. You know, they’re look at her sweet little thing, but it’s 

Todd: not going to work. Yeah. And then he says, come up next to me, but come over here, sit next to me. It’s safer up here. And so she’s sitting between the two of them and they’re just having this thing.

It’s a random conversation. About reality. Reality. Yeah, it’s not terribly random. Right. Uh, it definitely fits in with the theme. And, uh, he just, uh, Paul just looks at her and says, ah, see ya later, goodbye, and unceremoniously knocks her over the edge. Yep. There’s no splash, there’s no shot on her, you know, body floating down slowly into the ocean or anything.

She’s just gone. 

Kristin: Yep. That’s it. She’s gone. And then, you know, I knew what was gonna happen, because early on in the film, a friend had stopped by, and, you know, very creepily, this young man said, Hey, which house is yours? Like, you know, just very odd, and she sort of describes her house, and so you know, that’s their next stop.

And sure enough, that’s their next stop. They just keep on rowing right, or sailing right to their house. They’re back with the egg routine. Yep. And they need some 

Craig: eggs. He, uh, he gets into their house, the main one, Paul. And, um, the woman goes to get eggs. And again, he kind of looks around the house. Then he looks right at us in the camera.

And, boom. Freeze frame. Freeze frame, loud music, cue credits. 

Kristin: Yeah, and this loud music too, they, they use that a lot. And I thought, you know, It’s kind of clever. I wonder does he just carry the CD around because the music just sounds like people screaming Yeah, and they play it when they’re murdering people, you know, so it’s disturbing on many levels well I 

Craig: think that Conversation that they have is meant to be pointed and I think it may even be a little bit heavy handed the conversation that the two Boys have in the boat.

Yes one. I don’t even know what they’re talking about I don’t know what they’re talking about movies books comic books but the simpler of the two Peter is talking about something that he saw or read where you A guy got trapped in an alternate reality and was trying to communicate with his family in the real reality, but then he realized that his alternate reality was fiction, and, um, uh, Paul says, Okay, so where’s your hero now?

Is he in reality or is he in fiction? His family’s in reality and he’s in fiction. But isn’t fiction real? Why? Well, you can see it in the movie, right? Of course. Well, And it’s just as real as reality. You can see it too, right? So isn’t that just as real as real reality? Uh, and I think that’s kind of what he’s getting at too.

You know, we crave why, why do we want to watch these horrible, horrible things that do happen in reality and we pay a bunch of money to go to a movie theater and watch it play out. While we 

Kristin: eat popcorn and candy. Right. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know the answer to the question. I think it’s an interesting question.

Especially for somebody like me and Todd who watch these things all the time. 

Todd: Maybe get judged for it occasionally. Right. Kristen. 

Kristin: No. I’m just kidding. I don’t judge. And I, you know, I like supernatural movies too. For me, this one, it got under my skin, but I’m not gonna, well, I say this now, I’m not home by myself.

I may lose sleep over it those nights, but it helped me that they did break that wall, that they looked into the camera because then I could say, this is goofy, you know, this, thank you for breaking that because now I don’t feel like it’s so real and I just could breathe a little better once they started doing that and I didn’t feel so tense.

So for me, that helped. And, and maybe that’s Maybe the director wanted to do that. 

Craig: I don’t know. 

Todd: Well, it had the opposite effect on me. It felt like I’m part and parcel to this. You know? That, uh, breaking that fourth wall means there is no separation between the reality of us and the TV. And therefore Yeah, I don’t know.

I mean, obviously I didn’t literally think that. Right, right. But I, it did kind of give me that sense. And it did cause Caused me to question, why am I watching this? Yeah. Right, right. Um, we could have turned it off at any point. Right. We wouldn’t have for the podcast, but you know, it’s, it’s, it’s very true.

This is something that bothered me a lot about Martyrs. Uh, that is a movie that I have very conflicted feelings about. You’ve seen it, I presume. I’ve seen it, yeah, and I’m sure we’ll talk about that sometime later, but I felt like it was, in some ways, making a similar statement or attempting to. Mm hmm. I thought this film was a little more skillful 

Craig: at it.

Yeah, I don’t know. I saw that movie once and it was really, um, brutal. I mean, it’s just really, really, I mean, it’s torture and it’s just, you see everything and it’s the worst kind of torture you can imagine, like flaying and I mean, it’s just awful. I think you’re right. I think it was commentary on, on graphic violence in art as well, but I don’t know.

I felt like the message of that one got muddied a little bit. Oh yeah. Especially 

Todd: by the end. The ending is a little 

Craig: strange. This one, I don’t know that I necessarily agree. With his message, but I think that it’s something interesting to consider. I think that he’s also maybe making the suggestion that because we Glorify is not the right word, but because we celebrate this in art, that that may lead to people wanting to celebrate it in real life and maybe acting these things out when otherwise they wouldn’t.

And that’s been a debate forever, you know, do violent video games, you know, cause teens to be violent? Um, and I don’t know what the answer is, but I, I, I wonder if he was maybe kind of digging at that question 

Todd: too. Well, thankfully he made this so uncomfortable. Yeah. That it would be harder to, you can’t really say he was glorifying the violence in this film in any way.

By not showing it, of course. He denied us everything that you normally see in these movies. He even denied us the nudity, you know, of Naomi Watts. But we got to linger on her face as she’s experiencing the, uh, humiliation of that scene, which is ten times worse. Which, I mean, if every movie were like that, and every movie truly showed you the real power of violence, it would no longer be entertainment, you know?

It’s hard to imagine where you could draw a line, how you could possibly have bad things happen in art without encountering that kind of a question. 

Craig: I don’t know, it’s pretty heady for, it’s definitely a, a bigger, uh, philosophical question than we had last week with Haosu, so. Oh 

Todd: yeah. 

Kristin: Well, just another, just to make it even darker, the original I was reading that there’s, there’s sort of a, um, a curse on this film and people weren’t sure if they should remake it because, Three of the four original actors from the original film are dead now.

You’re kidding! No! Yeah, three of the four. And, um, you know, one was in his fifties, I think, one like thirty six, thirty seven. I know that the, the husband and wife were actually a couple in real life. I can’t remember now. I know two men. I, I don’t remember if it was the woman, but three of the four are now dead.

That’s wild. In a decade. Crazy. So they, there was just all around bad vibes sort of surrounding this film. But, um. You know Naomi Watts kind of spoke to the The violence piece and she said it was it was very artfully done. And I think that you know people were Questioning how violent it was and I think she was trying not to give too much away.

Right. By saying, you know, you may be surprised. Well, 

Craig: I agree that it was artfully done. I think it was a well made film. It was uncomfortable to watch, but I think it was really 

Todd: well made. You alluded to some controversy earlier. Did we cover all that, or? Um 

Craig: Gosh, I don’t think people are mad about that. I think people 

Kristin: are mad about the rewind scene, about the looking to the camera, about, you know, they’re all about these rules and yet they keep breaking rules.

That’s, that’s kind of what I kept hearing 

Craig: from people. I hate it when people say things like this because it’s so pretentious, but honestly, The people who are complaining about that, I don’t think they got the purpose of it. No, yeah, I think you’re absolutely right. And I’m sorry, I don’t mean to sound pretentious, I get really irritated when people say stuff like that, but I really think that you kind of missed the point if, uh, those were the complaints that you had coming away from it.

Or 

Kristin: perhaps didn’t even see the film. You know? Yeah. Right. They could have just heard about how brutal it is. And stuff like that. Because I certainly had heard it is so brutal and I watched it and I thought, what? We really didn’t see. Mm hmm. I don’t know how it did. Do you 

Craig: guys know? It didn’t do well. It only got a very limited theatrical release.

Um, it lost money. I don’t think it made back half. It was on like a 15 million dollar budget and I don’t think that it made that back. Really? Yeah, I don’t think it did. It was really 

Kristin: limited. I could see people walking out of this film, you know, at the theater. I think It’s, it’s so uncomfortable anytime you have, especially, I could see a lot of people leaving when that kid is dead.

You know, you don’t see him get killed, but it’s just kind of like, alright, I, I didn’t sign up for this. You know, we don’t expect to see that. And, um, but in a way, you know, psychos are just psychos, you know, and people try to figure out what, what they’re thinking, but you 

Craig: know, there isn’t, there is no rhyme and reason behind it.

Right. 

Todd: These games aren’t as funny as they thought they were going to be. Yeah, right, right. Not funny. Well, thank you again for joining us for another episode. Thank you, Kristen! Thank you. 

Craig: I’m glad you came. So great to have you. Did you have 

Kristin: fun? Sure! Yeah. I don’t know that I, uh, I had any insightful input, but 

Craig: Yeah, you did!

It was a lot of fun. It 

Todd: was a lot of fun. It was fun. A very serious subject matter, but fun to chat about. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Please check us out on iTunes. We’re also on Stitcher. If you like this podcast, please share it with a friend. Check out our Facebook page. Leave us a comment. We’d love to hear what you have to say.

And your thoughts about this movie as well. Did you agree with the controversy? Did you not? Did you get it, as Craig said? Or are you going to admit that you didn’t? Until next week, I’m Todd. I’m Craig. And I’m Kristen. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw

If you’ve never seen the 1977 Japanese horror-comedy-musical House, then you’re in for the wildest, strangest trip of your life.

Hausuu (1977)

Episode 28, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. 

Craig:  I’m Craig. 

Todd:  And today, we decided to go with a bit of a departure. This is a film that is near and dear to my heart. We will see how near and dear ended up to Craig’s heart. This is a Japanese film called House or in in Japanese, Hausu. It was released in 1977 in Japan. Never got a worldwide release. 

Craig:  You’re kidding. 

Todd:  I think I could see where this is going. Until 2010 when it was sort of resurrected, and, for example, we watched The Criterion edition. You can get this on a Criterion DVD. Has quite a cult following, has gotten some pretty good critical reviews now. Did not get great critical reviews when it was released in Japan. However, it was a box office hit, especially with young people. 

Craig:  When it was originally released? 

Todd:  Oh, yes. And they didn’t even expect it to, to be a big hit. Even the creators of the film did not expect it to be a hit. The industry over there, you know, is just a little different, especially at that time, even the industry over here was, but there’s a a very large, pretty much the monolithic Japanese production studio called Toho, and it was the Hollywood. It still is to an extent, but Japanese films aren’t really as big as they used to be even in Japan. They’re really watching a lot of foreign films more than Japanese films with the exception of the anime Right. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  Within the Japanese society. But at its day, Toho was cranking out a tons of movies, and so it was very much the studio type system that we had in Hollywood where they would just make a lot of movies. Actors and actresses were under contract to the studio, and as long as the successful ones did well, then the other films, you know, could be experimental or an era that I think we’re missing now a little bit. Yeah. You know, where we’ve just rely on those box office hits. Right. But we can talk more about the movie, the movie’s background a little later. I wanna just get your initial impressions before we move on. 

Craig:  I have no idea what we just watched. That was the weirdest thing I have ever seen. Really? I don’t even know how we are gonna go about talking about plot. Like, it was just a collection of the weirdest, most bizarre visuals that I’ve ever seen on film, I think. So strange. So strange. And I watch a lot of weird stuff. We’ve watched some weird stuff together.   Yeah. I think this kinda this this one takes the cake. 

Todd:  It takes the cake. Well, it does have a plot. Right? I mean, it’s not I feel like I’m gonna be apologizing for this movie the entire way through. Poor Craig. People have likened this film to a live action Scooby Doo. 

Craig:  Yeah. And I can totally see that. And you can definitely see elements of anime in there too. You know, I don’t know a lot about Japanese cinema. I, you know, I have friends who are big into anime, like, big time into anime, and I’ve seen a few things. And, you know, we kinda over here, I think, in the States, we get tickled by clips of Japanese game shows and and commercials. And this felt very much like that. I mean, it it remind, again, this isn’t even real, but it reminded me of that episode of Friends where Joey shows a Japanese commercial that he did for men’s lipstick, and, like, it’s just all these crazy bright colors and flashes of weird imagery, and that’s that that’s what’s going on here.   It’s a lot like, times a 1000000. 

Todd:  Well, it’s interesting you say that because the director, Nobuhiko Obayashi, before awful. Good job. Thank you. He actually I think this was his 1st feature film or perhaps, he did some other feature films, but they weren’t, as big or they were more small and experimental. He mainly did commercials before doing this. In fact, the whole cast of this film with the exception of who you would call the lead, who’s Kimiko Ike Ikegami, who if you’re into Japanese cinema, you’ll recognize her. She played gorgeous in the movie, which gorgeous actually translates a little better into Angel, which gives a little more explanation for 

Craig:  her role in the film. Sense. 

Todd:  With the exception of her, these are mostly amateur actresses in this film, and it shows in many ways. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  They, were people that he worked with on his commercials and things that he tried to bring in. The studio had approached him and wanted him to make this is 1977. Mhmm. They wanted him to make a movie that was kind of on the realm of Jaws. You know, some big production, something that would be big blockbuster. And he was floundering around for ideas and approached his daughter and asked his daughter, well, let’s talk about some of the things we should do. And she was like, you know, movies right now are kinda boring. They’re real grown up, and they talk about adult matters that kids can’t understand.   Can’t you make something that’s maybe a little more youthful and appeals more to youth? And she came up with all these ideas from her dreams, from ideas that she had. And as you can tell, it just got thrown in a blender and made into this movie. It took a while for it to even get green lit because everybody thought the script was total bonkers. Mhmm. And eventually, his producer, this producer at Todd, said, well, why don’t you direct it? And, Obayashi remembers this as basically being him telling him, we’re tired of losing money on comprehensible films. Let’s go ahead and shoot this movie, which is totally incomprehensible, and see how it does. 

Craig:  Yeah. It’s it’s weird that you say that because I feel like on paper, it would have looked like a very different movie. I I mean, the story is is weird, but relatively straightforward. It’s really more the way that it’s shot and all the wacky effects that make it strange and and bizarre. I mean, there are elements of the plot that, to me, made absolutely no sense. Like, there’s at one point, a guy turns into bananas for no reason that I can understand. I have no idea what was happening, but but other you know, aside from those few things that really just seem to completely come out of left field. Few things? Well, yeah.   I mean, I don’t know. I don’t know. Like, I I’m dumbstruck. I don’t even know 

Todd:  what to say. Well, we have this Scooby Doo type assortment of girls. They’re all, starting their summer vacation. They’re all high school, and all of them, like cartoon characters, have names their distinct one note personality. So you have gorgeous, who’s the girl who’s the star of the film, and she’s the one who’s doing her hair and her makeup all the time. And everybody’s talking about how gorgeous she is. You have the professor who is the mousy girl with the glasses on who’s very smart. 

Craig:  She’s the logical one. Right? Yeah. 

Todd:  And and even at one point in the movie, they they take the glasses off and say, you look beautiful without your glasses. There’s like this sort of nod, I think, to that whole aspect of these films, which is funny. We had Mac, who’s the person who eats a lot. 

Craig:  Uh-huh. 

Todd:  And I guess by Japanese standards, she’s fat. 

Craig:  She’s barely what we would consider pudgy here in the States. She’s cute. I mean, they’re all they’re all cute, girls. 

Todd:  She’s the butt of every single joke. 

Craig:  And she’s always eating or talking about wanting to eat. It’s pretty funny. 

Todd:  You have fantasy who, like, is the girl who’s wrapped up in her fantasy world, I guess. She’s the dreamer. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  She has a crush on mister 

Craig:  What is this? Togo? 

Todd:  Mister Togo. Yeah. It’s A teacher. Teacher. What? Okay. And she’s been fantasizing about running off with him. And then we had Kung Fu, who is the sporty girl. And, like, we have to explain that That’s true.   Kung Fu who does kung 

Craig:  throughout the film. She even has her own little kung fu score. That’s right. That was fun. Melody Plays the piano. 

Todd:  That’s right. And who am I missing? 

Craig:  Sweet. Sweet. Who likes cleaning? Oh, man. 

Todd:  Little insight into Japanese culture too sometimes with this film. So the movie’s, we’re not gonna probably explain the entire plot to you because it makes no sense, but we’re gonna hit the highlights. Essentially, the threat of it is that Gorgias is planning to take a trip to see her auntie out in the middle of nowhere, Japan, where who she hasn’t seen since she was a tiny little girl. And her backstory is that her mother died 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  Quite some time ago when she was young. And, then her father is now getting together with another woman who he just surprises her with Mhmm. Out of nowhere really, and that’s an interesting scene. 

Craig:  It’s so weird. The whole thing is so weird. First of all, it it looks like it’s set or it looks like it’s shot on, like, a soap opera set, like a really, really bad soap opera with what what’s what’s clearly just a stage with, arguably fairly impressive backdrops lit backdrops behind, but it I mean, it almost looks like a parody of a soap opera. It’s so over the top and ridiculous. 

Todd:  I think it is. You know? And I think that’s what’s really cool about this movie is from the very get go, they’re pulling you into an obvious fantasy world. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Like, this world doesn’t reflect reality even in the scenes that seem like they would reflect reality. Even that shot that scene between, her and her father when she’s talking with him and he introduces his new bride to be, It’s shot, like you said, on the soap opera set, like it’s on the out, the balcony. 

Craig:  Like a 

Todd:  like a veranda. Right? But it’s shot through glass, like a glass pane 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  That warps the people as they’re walking past it and through it, and we never get to the other side of that glass. Right. It’s all shot through that. So even as we’re seeing these characters having what’s supposed to be a fairly real interaction, the interaction is so overwrought. And sometimes it slows down and becomes slow motion for no apparent reason. Right. And they of wind come in. 

Craig:  And we’ll have, like, superimposed close ups of characters’ faces. And the fiancee, I I have no idea Ryoko. Yeah. Ryoko Ima. She apparently has her own personal wind machine that follows her everywhere she goes. That’s right. Because she’s always draped in these scarves, and they’re always just billowing around her face. Always. 

Todd:  And she’s always in slow motion. Yeah. And she always has these dreamy, far off smiling looks as she turns from one place to another. And even her dialogue is very carefree. Like 

Craig:  It is good. I’m not gonna 

Todd:  Because, Gorgeous doesn’t take to her at all. Right. She’s very ticked that her father is, marrying somebody else. 

Craig:  She’s taken by her until the dad says she’s gonna be your new mom, and then then Gorgeous is not pleased. 

Todd:  Yeah. And so, it seems to be this really overdone contrast what you’d see in a romance film from the fifties times 10. 

Craig:  Mhmm. Like Casablanca or something. 

Todd:  That they’re parodying here 

Craig:  in a way. 

Todd:  Yeah. And it it presents a nice contrast with whatever what what else is happening in the film. Except for Gorgeous, the rest of the girls were going to go to this summer camp or something with mister Togo, and it turns out for some reason, they can’t go. What what was the reason? I don’t even remember. 

Craig:  Mister Togo. So they’re they’re, like, waiting for him to go or whatever, and it’s his sister has, like, a a summer resort or something something like that. And she’s sick. No. He pulls up, and he’s like, bad news. My sister’s gonna have a baby. 

Todd:  Oh, that’s so awful. 

Craig:  So so we so we can’t go. And just the it’s so silly. So gorgeous comes. She was supposed to go on a trip with her dad, but now she’s not gonna go because she’s mad. So she was go she comes, and she was going to join them. And when he says we can’t go, they’re all the other girls are disappointed, and she says, well, let’s all go together to visit my aunt who I haven’t seen in a long time. And then, like, in voice over you here, and that’s how I invited them all to your house. Like, aunts who I haven’t seen or spoken to in 10 years. 

Todd:  I hope you don’t mind. 

Craig:  I invited my whole class to come hang out at your house. 

Todd:  She has this cat. And did she did they discover the cat, or has she always had the cat? 

Craig:  That I was confused about that through the whole movie until the end. I thought it was her cat in the beginning. And then as soon as they so they they go. I mean, they she gets a letter from her aunt. Yeah. Bring everybody. Great. So they go and they take this cat.   I thought that it was Gorgeous’ cat. 

Todd:  It is. It I think it is. 

Craig:  But it says later in the movie, the aunt is like, these girls are gonna come here, and there haven’t been any girls here for a long time. So I will send Blanche, the cat, to them. So I and and when they said that? Yeah. Yeah. The aunt said I’ll send Blanche to her to them or something. 

Todd:  Oh, okay. 

Craig:  And then when they get there, the cat immediately runs in, and there’s I don’t know. To where, like Yeah. There’s some random dialogue about how which cats can close doors or something. 

Todd:  It does become important. It, the they’re on the train there, and they’re teasing each other and spooking each other out. And, 1 girl says, cats can close doors, but only a witch can open them. 

Craig:  Or something something along those lines. Yeah. And when they get there, the cat, they’re trying to get in the gate. The gate won’t open, and then the cat pushes it open. It opens up, and the cat immediately runs and jumps in the ant’s lap. The ant, is white haired and in a wheel Craig. And then it seems like the cat stays with her. It’s her cat, and, like, there’s pictures of the cat all over the house. 

Todd:  That’s a big motif in the 

Craig:  whole film. So as it I mean, it it appears that the it’s like a witch’s familiar. Right? 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s like a manifestation. Although, we learned later on that the witch herself is more of a manifestation than an actual witch person who lives. 

Craig:  Well, strange things start to happen right away. I mean, for, you know, the weird opening gate and then the ant takes them in the house and she talks to her chandelier and it comes on. And then, like, crystals start flying off the chandelier, and, like, one of them stabs a lizard into the floor and the others, like, shoot at the girls, but Kung Fu breaks into her Kung Fu action and, like, chops them all away. It it’s like, oh, well, 

Todd:  that was weird. Thanks, Kung Fu. 

Craig:  Yeah. Let’s let’s have fun. 

Todd:  Well, the whole tone of the film is not terribly serious. No. Even and there’s a score that underscores the entire thing, and it’s bouncing from place to place, but the music is pretty much always there. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And a lot of times, even in the scary scenes, it’s a bouncy seventies Yeah. Soundtrack, a little funky. Like low budget. 

Craig:  Mhmm. And and like a like a like a like an old seventies Burt Reynolds movie or or something like that. Yes. Exactly. Like Cannonball Run 

Todd:  or something. And and it and even in even the way that it the soundtrack is mixed into the film at times, it sounds like it’s in the background almost playing in another room. 

Craig:  Uh-huh. 

Todd:  The way that it lays under the dialogue, it doesn’t seem like it’s scoring the film so much as it’s just a song that happens to be playing. 

Craig:  It’s it’s bizarre. Everything about it is bizarre. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  There’s nothing conventional about it. And I guess that, you know, that that’s interesting. If you’re looking for something different, you’re not gonna get much different than this. It’s unlike anything I’ve seen before. 

Todd:  But in a good way? 

Craig:  I don’t know. It’s There you go. Aw. 

Todd:  You break my heart. 

Craig:  I don’t know. Todd’s wife, has never watched a movie with us before. And, she sat in on this one, and I thought that she had seen it before. But after I found out she hadn’t when she said, I spent my Sunday afternoon watching this. And I don’t know. It’s one of those things where I think I’m glad to have seen it just because I’m like a collector of trivia and and and whatnot. But and it, you know, it would be fun to talk about with anybody who has seen it or who hasn’t seen it. But as your wife said, and I think very astutely said, this could have been 20, 30 minutes.   Like, I feel like I coulda got what they were going for in 20 to 30 minutes. 

Todd:  Oh, I don’t know, man. To be fair, almost any movie could be redeemed 

Craig:  in 20 to 30 minutes. But, I mean so, basically, then what happens is in a lot of weird well, the ant just acts weird and, like, you know something weird is going on from the beginning. Like, the cat’s eyes sparkle, like, magical green, and the ant’s eyes sparkle magical green, and weird things are happening. So you know that there’s something weird going on. And then the girls and it takes a while. You know, they’re there for a little while. The girls kinda start getting picked off and really, really, I’ll say weird. You could also say creative ways.   Cartoonish. Very much. Very car and actual cartoon. But, you know, a lot there’s a lot of animation, throughout the movie and a mix of animation and and live action, which, you know, I mean, it’s it’s it’s different. Well, in some 

Todd:  of the the special effects are reflective of the time where you can tell it’s green screen and it’s kind of a cheesy green screen. Other effects, you can tell they were meant to be goofy and outlandish and out there like you’re watching a Pink Floyd video. Mhmm. Yeah. You know, if you’ve seen The Wall, this movie is very reminiscent of that where it it moves from from animation into live action into weirdness all at at the same time. The 1st kill is, of course, the fat girl girl, Mac. Mac, and she goes outside. They have, basically tied a watermelon to the end of a rope and dropped it down a well in order to cool it off because the auntie says the refrigerator doesn’t work.   Uh-huh. And so Mac goes outside to get the watermelon, and we don’t know. We don’t 

Craig:  know why that happened. Disappears, and they the other girls eventually say she seems like she’s been gone a long time. That’s right. And I I I’m pretty sure it’s fantasy because Fantasy. Fantasy is typically the one who finds these weird things, and then nobody believes her because they think that it’s all in her head. But she goes out, and I feel like things are just kind of weird in general, but she goes to pull up the watermelon. And when she pulls it up, it’s Mac’s decapitated smiling living head. And it it it kind of flies around her.   Laughs at 

Todd:  her, and then it bites her in the ether. 

Craig:  Gets stuck to her butt 

Todd:  for a while. Mac is trying to eat something. 

Craig:  Oh, man. But, of course, 

Todd:  it’s fantasy, and nobody believes her. Oh, well, that can’t be right because they go outside and they pull up the watermelon. It’s just a watermelon. And it from here on out up until the big climax, fantasy is the one who sees all the creepy things outright. 

Craig:  Uh-huh. 

Todd:  And, of course, they never believe her. 

Craig:  Well and then they go to eat the watermelon, and I feel like you can kind of hear Mac’s little voice in the background. Like, it’s coming from the watermelon, and then the ant is eating the watermelon. And I don’t know if she showed this to 1 of the girls or if she was just showing us because she broke the 4th wall on more than one occasion, and she, like, opened her mouth 

Todd:  Just a little bit. 

Craig:  Just a little bit just so that we could see that there was an eyeball she was eating an eyeball. So I guess 

Todd:  The eyeball would look left and right. 

Craig:  Yeah. So I guess they ate Mac in the form of the watermelon. 

Todd:  That’s right. 

Craig:  It it doesn’t make any sense, folks. It it it’s and at that point, that was when I realized I’m just gonna have to roll with it. Just just let it just let it just let it roll. 

Todd:  But honestly, I think, yes, it doesn’t make sense, but in the fantasy world of a witch and a witch who could do pretty much anything, 

Craig:  who can 

Todd:  transform things, who can make them whatever. We just saw the witch. Right? We saw the American kind of Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Version of the witch, and there’s transformation, and there’s flying, and there’s that. In this film, okay, the witch killed Mac and transformed her into a watermelon, and now everybody’s eating Mac and they don’t even know it. It’s this sly, funny, and creative way of dispatching of them.   Later on, 1 of the girls, sweet, I believe, is attracted to this doll in one of the rooms and starts getting pummeled by futons. Yeah. It’s like 

Craig:  death by mattress. Nonstop. And when they 

Todd:  come in, they notice that all of her clothes are in there, and they pick up this doll that’s completely naked. Mhmm. And so it’s obvious she’s been transformed into this doll. Right. And but not obvious to them. So I felt like they were very conventional witchy type things going on. I mean, within the fantasy realm, these things aren’t that weird. Yeah.   It’s just the delivery. 

Craig:  Right. I mean, it’s it’s We’re not 

Todd:  used to seeing the comedy and the the over the top silliness, almost cartoonishness of it. Right. 

Craig:  And I mean, I don’t know if I would say conventional aside from she’s magic and she can do what she wants. Like, she can she can sneakily slip into the refrigerator and then and close the door behind her and then appear dancing in the rafters as well. Great scene. Wasn’t that not a 

Todd:  great scene? Overhead shot of the girls talking, and they’re and they’re talking about her and where where could everybody else be. And I think even I think is it professor? Leaves. It’s just fantasy and professor, and they’re doing dishes or whatever. And the aunt is dancing around because she’s rather happy. You could tell she’s getting her power from the death of the girls. 

Craig:  Right. That’s it. I mean, as soon after the first after they eat Mac, all of a sudden, now she can walk again. Yeah. And she says something like, you girls are giving me my energy back or something like that. 

Todd:  Yeah. Dancing around, and it’s it would be creepy if they weren’t so oblivious. Mhmm. And so the 2nd professor leaves the frame, like, the very second, the ant is just dances her way right into the refrigerator in front of fantasy so that only fantasy could see it. And the door shuts, and she freaks. She drops her glasses, and, like, immediately, professor comes right back in, but it’s too late. Uh-huh. It’s just one of those moments.   I’m trying to think of another movie that does this exact same thing where where the person just playing with them, and they make something happen in front of them just at the right moment where nobody else sees 

Craig:  it Right. 

Todd:  And nobody else sees any evidence of it afterwards? 

Craig:  Yeah. I can’t think of any examples either, but I know exactly what you’re talking about. Like, you know, in those those kind of old horror comedies where something will appear in the mirror just for a moment for just 1 character to see or, like, a a trap door will open and only 1 character will see and the others won’t believe. It’s it’s that kind of tone. 

Todd:  But in a devilish way, like, when your protagonist is clearly playing with somebody and getting a lot of glee out of it because while the then while professor runs back in and asks Fancy what happened in their fridge, as you said earlier, we see her the the, ant crawling. We’re up in the rafters, and so we see the ant’s head come into frame like she suddenly magically appeared on the rafters. And she just turns and looks at us 

Craig:  Directly at the camera. 

Todd:  And smiles like, 

Craig:  I’m sorry. I take 

Todd:  such joy in these moments. 

Craig:  I’m glad. 

Todd:  And maybe it’s because I’ve seen it before. So I really, from the very beginning, was gonna roll with it. 

Craig:  Right. Well and you you kinda knew what to expect. I didn’t even know what we’re gonna be watching when I showed up today. So I knew nothing about it going in. I you know? And then there’s so, again, like, I don’t even remember how they all get picked off, but there’s lot you know, lots of just supernatural weird things happening. And it’s like you said before. It’s kinda like they took a whole bunch of ideas and threw them in a blender, and they don’t all really connect and make sense, but it kinda doesn’t really matter. Right.   You know? It’s not like you’re looking for some sort of explanation. Like, at one point, 1 of the girls is in a a tub bathing, and you get that, like, j horror black hair thing coming up over her shoulders, and then it, you know, goes back down under the water real quick when somebody else comes in the room or something. Gosh. What I 

Todd:  Well, Melody, the aunt is showing them around the house, and I guess it must be told that there is a backstory to all this. Yeah. There is some clearly some tension between the aunt and Gorgeous’s mother. And and this is played out in a really creative way, I thought. This was on the train ride in where they’re talking about the girls are talking, and Gorgeous is telling the girls about her aunt and about her mom. And, apparently, her aunt lived in this great house, obviously, with her mom, and, her aunt fell in love with this man. And this man had to it was World War 2, and this man had to go into the army, and he died in an airplane crash, but not before he left promising her that he would return. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And so you see later that the that that, Angel’s mother or Gorgeous’ mother falls in love with another guy and they get married, and the aunt is like a bridesmaid of some sort. And you can tell that the aunt is really kind of jealous or upset that her mom and that’s where I got the sense that the aunt was had been waiting for Gorgeous to come this whole time. 

Craig:  Well, she says that. I mean, she says, I’ve been waiting for your letter. 

Todd:  Yeah. And this is why I think she was waiting for her. It’s almost to exact some revenge on the girl because, obviously, her her husband never comes back. His plane crashes into the ocean. There’s no body. There’s no nothing. And we learn later on as the explanation is doled out to us at the end of the film that the aunt died a long time ago and that this is just a manifestation of her love, for her husband who never returned. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  And, it is in the form of a ghost, and it takes its revenge by eating the girls in the village. 

Craig:  Right. She under the guise of, like, giving them piano lessons, but she says she doesn’t anymore because there are no more young girls in the village because she’s eating them all. 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s a voluminous. 

Craig:  And so she’s she’s now eating all these girls, and and they they go in different ways. Like you said, I think it was sweet was the one that, got attacked by pillows. Sucks. And then the girls later on see her, like, trapped in a clock or something. Yeah. 

Todd:  And the it seems like the 

Craig:  gears of the clock are are chewing her away. Uh-huh. Gorgeous actually goes pretty early on, I think. She’s sitting in front of a mirror, like, putting lipstick on, and the image in the mirror changes to her aunt’s like, a a younger version of her aunt, and then the mirror shatters. And then there’s a weird effect where, like, 

Todd:  her face. 

Craig:  Her face kinda shatters and falls away. 

Todd:  That was I thought that was a very interesting scene because it was almost a sister scene to the flashback we were talking about Uh-huh. Where she’s what I interpreted anyway to be discovering her mother’s old makeup chest Mhmm. And going through and maybe using the same combs and the same brushes and putting on the same lipstick that her mother, you know, had long ago. And the ant the evil ant sort of in the mirror makes this connection, and there’s a possession of sorts. Right. It’s how I took it to be. Yeah. 

Craig:  And so then Gorgeous is she’s not around as much, but you still see her around and the girl see her around too, but it’s not really her. It’s it’s the ant. Right? 

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, the like, the ants 

Craig:  is yeah. Like, the ants has possessed her. 

Todd:  Yeah. And and and I think, again, I think that in an in admittedly incomprehensible movie, all that makes some certain amount of sense. Yeah. It’s the sins of the father are visited upon the children 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  In the same way because Gorgeous even looks so much like her mother, that whole looking in the mirror and her aunt looking back at her, possessing her allows her aunt to almost fulfill Right. In a way her her revenge fantasy. 

Craig:  It even says, you know, it’s like they figure it out somehow. I mean, they find a journal or something. Called lost what was the name? I don’t remember. 

Todd:  I don’t remember. Lost memories or Yeah. Yeah. Professor, of course, figures it out Right. 

Craig:  From reading the journal. And so they figure out that, you know, she eats these girls so that she can be young again, and she and then she wears her wedding dress. And so gorgeous puts on the ceremonial wedding dress and is wearing that for the last part of the movie. Yeah. The plot is not hard to follow. You know? It it’s it’s pretty simple. It’s just that everything plays out in such a crazy way visually. Have no idea what the significance of the melody was, but there’s this melody that repeats throughout and eventually oh, the melody, the character melody, sits down to play, the piano, and, like, there’s, like, this old faded sheet music there, and she plays the melody.   Like, the metronome starts on its own. She’s sitting there playing this melody. And the melody is really repetitive, and it plays throughout the whole 

Todd:  hear anything but this melody for much of the time. 

Craig:  And it sounded really familiar to me. I think it didn’t wasn’t similar in tune necessarily, but it almost was reminiscent of, like, jolly old Saint Nicholas or something like that. Really simple, but she you know, it’s like she’s drawn to the piano. And at one point, she’s playing the piano, and then we see the girl other girls in another room. And Melody screams. And they come running in, and they’re like, oh, it’s just a little cut. Why are you, you know, acting like such a baby? And she’s like, it’s so weird. It’s like the piano bit me.   And then later on, I think that they’re upset at somebody else having disappeared, and, they say, why don’t you play the piano to calm us down or something? And she does. And then it it’s just her and fantasy in there. I don’t even remember who’s left. I know professor is left, and the piano eats melody. 

Todd:  Yeah. Right right in front of well, one of in front of fantasy. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. 

Todd:  The other 2 leave. Yeah. 

Craig:  It it eats, like again, it’s 

Todd:  it’s bizarre. 

Craig:  It’s a mix of animation and and, like, stop motion, and her limbs are getting spit out of the of the piano fantasy and Flying around and floating in the air. 

Todd:  Her legs are still kicking, but her head is floating around and boy. Because because her legs are we get sort of a almost an up the skirt shot basically of her legs kicking as they’re going. And then her head floats by and looks down and goes, oh, that’s naughty. Yeah. 

Craig:  Oh, man. 

Todd:  Well, it’s funny because as goofy and as intentionally over the top and silly as some of those moments are, even in the moments that are ostensibly to be poignant and a little quieter, it’s almost as though the director cannot help but insert something goofy in there anyway. Yeah. And I’m thinking back to that scene where you were just talking about where she sits down at the piano for the 1st time and she plays, and the metronome starts up, but she doesn’t seem to notice or care. Right. And she’s playing, and it goes into a slow motion sweep where the camera starts at her back and starts to slowly sweep around the piano on her playing and it’s it’s a really kind of a nice little scene. Uh-huh. And as it gets around to face her, we see in the background this skeleton that’s been in the corner of the room because this room used to be a medical clinic is conducting. Yeah.   Do you know what I mean? It just pops up in the back there. Yeah. Just subtly conducting music in the background. You can’t help but just bowl over and laugh. And 

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, it’s it’ll. And the effects are cheap, I guess. I I I mean, you can tell that it’s just the skeleton’s arms are on strings, and somebody’s just pulling the strings. So there’s go and you can hear the bones rattling, but Melody apparently can’t or doesn’t or is enchanted or or something, but it’s funny. 

Todd:  That’s going comes to life in the background a few times Yeah. Just for comedic effect, it seems. And I know that the director, being a director of television commercials and wanting to go really over the top with this movie, tried a lot of different techniques. He said he really didn’t even know how it was gonna show up in you know, until it was done. Right. And that he wasn’t happy with how a number of the did end up turning out. 

Craig:  Well and I read that they were really just kind of doing these effects as they went. Like and it was just the director and the cameraman who are figuring out ways to do this. It’s not like there was some sort of, like, effects team. You know? It was just them trying what what they could do, and it looks that way. But but at the same time, it doesn’t look 

Todd:  super cheap though, does it? I mean I don’t know. I mean Cheap as in the cheap effects of a low budget movie where everything’s string and twine and and, you know into account that 

Craig:  it was made in 1977, I would say no. You know? It I it’s probably pretty comparable to except for there’s so much more over the top. It’s like so many different effects blended together. It’s very ambitious. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah? And I appreciate that.   I mean, I will give it credit for being creative. I think that it would take a creative maybe that’s being a nice Todd. A creative mind to come up with, these ideas. It’s it’s interesting that, you know, so much so many of the ideas came from his daughter who was young, presumably, and it feels very much like Scooby Doo, like you said before. But then at the end, all of a sudden, there’s a a bunch of nudity. Like, it’s that seemed unexpected and kind of out of place to me, and it seemed forced. Like, how can we get her top off? So, you know and people are like the way that professor goes is Kung Fu. She’s, you know, she’s the tough one.   She’s trying to end things, and I think professor says, kill the cat. Kill the cat. Like, they think the cat is, you know, bewitching them or something. And she doesn’t even try to kill the actual cat. There’s a a a picture or an illustration of the cat on the wall, and it’s changing and looking scary and demonic. And so she goes to kung fu kick it, but before she can get there, she gets eaten by a hanging lamp. But she gets chopped in half, and her legs are still able to kung through this this picture of the cat. And, like, the picture rips and blood starts spewing out of the cat’s mouth.   The whole house fills with blood, and all of a sudden, the floor panels become like rafts. And and this is pretty ambitious. I don’t even know how they pulled that off. But, professor and is it fantasy? The only ones who are left at 

Todd:  that point Yeah. 

Craig:  Are floating on the raft, and professor loses her glasses, so she can’t see anything. And then she either falls off or somehow gets pulled off. 

Todd:  There’s a floating in the water. There’s a floating tea kettle. It was the tea kettle they had used earlier to pour the tea, and it has a flip top on it. And, the floating tea kettle comes by and opens up and it has teeth, and it bites her hand and pulls her in. And then It’s like out of Alice in Wonderland 

Craig:  or something. And so she goes underwater, and then she comes back up. And then we get the underwater shot of her, and she’s completely nude. Yeah. And we get a pretty good long shot of her lithe nude body in in the water. Kick her around. And it’s not that it’s not a good shot. It’s actually a really good shot.   I’m just like, why does she have to be naked? I don’t understand it. And then so then she’s gone. And then, Fantasy, like, paddles her way over to the staircase where Gorgeous, who we know is actually the aunt in Gorgeous’ form now, starts coming down the store stairs towards her. Fantasy is saying, help me, gorgeous or something like that, and she reaches for her. But then she She grabs her blouse, but falls backwards. Right. She so she grabs her blouse, but falls backwards. But, you know, conveniently, the blouse rips off so that Gorgeous’ breasts are now exposed.   And Fantasy then, is able to get up to her and kind of lays her head on her breast and says, mommy or 

Todd:  Yeah. I see. I saw that as a sort of mothering kind of thing. Not like she’s breastfeeding her Right. But evoking that similar image of buttering her. 

Craig:  And I get it. It just seemed a little much for me. I I I have no problem with nudity. You know? I’m all for nudity. It just seemed it that that would be one criticism I had. It seemed out of place. 

Todd:  You know? And I’m not sure the explanation of this because I haven’t done, like, a complete anthropological study of Japanese film, but you do tend to see that a bit in Japanese films where it’s not just that it, whatever. You know, we don’t really care about it so much, like a French film or whatnot, but it’s it’s almost there’s some excuses made to pull a top off or to have somebody nude for some reason, and I really don’t know why. I don’t know if it’s just because they’re mostly men making these films or, if there’s some cultural explanation beyond Yeah. 

Craig:  I don’t know. 

Todd:  Maybe some symbolism or maybe even, you know, for all I know the whole notion of them eating them, of her eating them, they’ve, you know, you gotta get the clothes off before you can eat them. It’s like Yeah. But sort of like you’d strip down an animal, but 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  Who knows? 

Craig:  Right. Yeah. And, I mean, we’re talking these are beautiful girls. It’s you know, it just it felt a little bit exploitive. 

Todd:  Yeah. Oh, no question. Yeah. I agree. Like, this is how we get our r rating. 

Craig:  Yeah. What is this? I mean, does it is it rated? 

Todd:  I mean not rated. No. I mean 

Craig:  because up until that up until the nudity, I was thinking, you know, this could be easily a PG rated film. You know, the there’s there’s 

Todd:  or less. 

Craig:  There’s implied violence, and and you see it, but it’s so over the top that it’s it’s and there’s not a whole lot of blood. When there is blood, it doesn’t look like real blood. It looks like red water. Like, yeah, like, people are getting dismembered and stuff, but you can tell it’s like a cut and paste job. You know? Yeah. It doesn’t look it doesn’t look real. It’s not gory. It’s really not scary.   I mean, it’s it’s more just, you know, eye candy than scary. 

Todd:  And I think that was intentional. Yeah. Probably. I mean, they certainly had the ability to make it, you know, realistically gross, but it would’ve it would’ve ruined the comedic, like I said, cartoony aspect of it. Don’t you think? 

Craig:  Yeah. I mean and I think I would need to you know, Japanese culture is so different than ours, and I know so little about it. I can’t imagine what audience they would have been making this movie for. I mean, it’s just yeah. I mean, do you know more than I? I mean, is this reflective of a type of Japanese if I went out and looked, would I find other movies like this? 

Todd:  If you were to take this and tone it down considerably, it is not out of the tone of, of where Japanese comedy tends to go. Gotcha. A lot of its can be buffoonish, a little over the top, a little silly. I’m thinking about that character toward the beginning of the movie, the watermelon salesman Uh-huh. Where they pull the watermelon off, and he’s making these faces at them. 

Craig:  And Right. To reveal his head, his face behind. 

Todd:  Yeah. And he’s being really over the top silly. He’s almost the guy in the film who warns you away from the house, except he almost seems like he’s not warning them, but, like, oh. 

Craig:  Well and, I mean, it’s just it’s silly. You know? It’s like this watermelon stand just right outside of where this mansion is in the middle of nowhere, this big fat watermelon vendor, I guess, that sits out there. And, like, when he’s when he sends the girls off towards the house, he’s, like, waving goodbye. And in the background, there’s a a watermelon laughing. Like, I mean, it looks like something out of Sesame Street or or something along those lines. 

Todd:  That aspect of it’s a little silly, but but that sort of character 

Craig:  Mhmm. You know? 

Todd:  I mean, you could liken him to a Jim Carrey type character in the US. We we have these buffoonish over the Todd, outlandish, silly characters that almost almost seem like they’re not even acting very well, but we tolerate it because we like the kind of humor, we like the kind of slapstick that comes out of it. So you get a lot of that same stuff here, and I would say this film is definitely geared more towards children. 

Craig:  It seems that way. Mhmm. I I don’t know. I mean, it and and, I mean, we’ve we’ve pretty much covered the plot except for so we assume that fantasy gets eaten. We don’t see it, but she’s being be she’s being embraced by the witch, and it cuts away, so we assume that she’s gone. The other subplot is that the, fiance, gorgeous’s to be stepmother, she said very early in the movie, I’ll go meet them there. I’ll let them stay for a little while, and then when it’s time for them to come back, I’ll I’ll go and I’ll talk to her. 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s her way of, making amends 

Craig:  with Todd. An olive branch. Right? And so at the very end well, we mister Togo was supposed to show up Todd, that he can’t find the mansion. There’s a 

Todd:  there are all kinds of sequences of mister Togo getting waylaid. Yeah. One one way or not, whether he’s in a noodle shop just taking his time or he’s stuck in traffic. 

Craig:  In a noodle shop where apparently a bear is the chef, and nobody nobody that, you know, A bear in like a like a karate suit 

Todd:  Suit. Yeah. Yeah. 

Craig:  Is is cooking the noodles. Okay. So eventually, he almost gets there. He gets to the watermelon stand, and he says like, the watermelon guy’s like, do you want a watermelon? He’s like, no. He’s like, I don’t like watermelons. And and and the guy’s like, well, what do you like? And he’s like, bananas. And he just starts screaming, bananas. Bananas.   And he gets in his car, and it cuts away from him. The the fiance arrives at the watermelon shop. There’s nobody there, but there’s mister Togo’s car full of bananas in the kind of general shape of a person. So I guess he was turned into a whole bunch of bunches of bananas. 

Todd:  That that is to me, that is the weirdest moment in a weird movie. 

Craig:  Yeah. I guess you just attribute it to the power of the witch. Like, she’s keeping him away. I I who knows? 

Todd:  Yeah. I feel like maybe she’s in cahoots with the watermelon guy. 

Craig:  Maybe. The fiance shows up and, with her wind machine. And, she, you know, very slowly and gracefully approaches the mansion, and the birds are singing, and the flowers are in bloom, and everything’s very beautiful. And she’s standing outside and, gorgeous from inside opens these big sliding doors. I’ve seen these panels before. And, you know, it’s pretty typical Japanese agriculture, I think, at least traditional. Agriculture. Agriculture.   Yeah. Not architecture. 

Todd:  Excuse me. 

Craig:  That was good. 

Todd:  I was thinking, 

Craig:  really? So these big slight and she just very, very slowly opens all these doors while the fiance is just standing out there. 

Todd:  See, see, I loved that 

Craig:  scene. Pretty. 

Todd:  It was but it was shot. It was it was so funny too because you’re getting you’re just skipping through the trees and every little flower, and it’s shot to be absolutely gorgeous, but there’s this ominousness suddenly of because we know well, if she hadn’t figured it out by now, there’s also the motif of only witches open doors 

Craig:  or Right. Right. 

Todd:  You know? And so she’s slowly opening this sliding door. 

Craig:  And it’s so long that she has to walk all the way across the Craig, and she does it very slowly. It Todd twice. Yeah. Two panels. It’s kinda neat, really. It’s it’s it’s pretty to look at. 

Todd:  Well, and it’s also a very dark comedy because this woman’s coming to extend this olive branch. She’s so delightfully doing it. She’s putting on her sweetest face, and you just know she’s gonna 

Craig:  get it. Right. Right. Well, see and that’s it’s funny because I thought I didn’t see it going where it went. I assumed that the the fiance would show up, and then somehow she would rescue them. And then Oh. They would you know, then gorgeous would like her, and it would be, you know, a happy ending. But instead, they kneel on mats, opposite each other in this, you know, kind of open air porch of the house.   And the fiance says, where are your friends? Still sleeping? And Gorgias says, yeah. They’re still sleeping, but they’ll be up soon because they’re hungry, and they wake up when they’re hungry. And then is that the end? That’s the end. Right? 

Todd:  And then and then she, says, oh, I’m so happy to see you or whatever. And, anyway, they end up holding hands. And as soon as they hold hands, the fiance burst into flames. 

Craig:  Oh, right. 

Todd:  Right. And then you’re right. Then it is pretty much the end where we get a a scene of just Gorgeous’s face tossing around and smiling a little bit. And some sort of weird It’s 

Craig:  a mommy. 

Todd:  Over, yeah, over her about and I think it’s the aunt perhaps. Yeah. And it’s about love, and it’s about how love only love endures. 

Craig:  Yeah. Like, the body may die, but love endures. And that was I thought that was kind of weird, tonally. Like Yeah. It, like, it was it almost seemed like it was supposed to be some sort of sentimental message after all this weird wackiness. And the the fact that she killed all these people. I mean, that’s 

Todd:  that’s it’s it’s odd. I saw it as a ghost thing, 

Craig:  you know. Yeah. It is haunting. 

Todd:  It is haunting. And, again, that was the explanation given for the aunt was that it was her love that endured even after she died 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  Just in a very negative way. Mhmm. Right? It’s the ghost that doesn’t come back to help people, it’s the ghost that needs its revenge, and and you do actually see that it’s a different kind of ghost lore. Right? And maybe we’d be able to unpack it a little better if we understood it, but we have films like The Grudge. 

Craig:  Right. That’s exactly what I was thinking. Not not dissimilar. I mean Mhmm. Different different motivation, but the same kind of in, you know, in that one, it’s that the anger, from from this event manifests itself, and it you know, it’s something different in this one, but in the same vein. 

Todd:  Before you explained what I’ve missed about the cat being sent to her to lead them back, I had it in my head that the that the cat was a cat she grew up with, that it was almost the aunt’s manifestation in the cat that was just waiting 

Craig:  keeping an eye on her? 

Todd:  Keeping an eye on her, waiting for her to get that you know, to get the impetus to go to visit her house. And then, obviously, when she did, its purpose was complete. Yeah. But yeah. I don’t know. I mean, you could probably interpret this movie 10 different ways and not be wrong because as the makers of this film freely admit, it’s incomprehensible it was in many ways meant to be that way, but I don’t know I really enjoy watching it I mean it stokes my imagination in the same way that I’ll go back and watch a He Man cartoon or a Scooby Doo, and it’s makes no sense, and it’s childish, and it’s kinda silly, but, it’s fun 

Craig:  to watch. It’s creative and silly. I wouldn’t sit down and watch it again the way we watched it Todd. Mhmm. But I could see how it would really be something super fun to put on, like, in the background at a Halloween party or something because you could just catch glimpses of it. And, visually, as weird as it is, it’s it’s really visually stimulating, and and it’s, you know, wacky and off the wall. And, if it were kind of atmospheric background, I could see you know, I I could see that, but I don’t know. You you you’ve seen it more than once, so, 

Todd:  It’s it’s too silly to be scary. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s not it’s not scary. 

Todd:  Yeah. And like you said, it’s not bloody really. I mean, what what blood is in there is over the top and really cartoonish and not even it doesn’t even seem real. 

Craig:  No. 

Todd:  So you could watch it almost with your kids. 

Craig:  Like As long as you’re okay with with nudity. And the nudity 

Todd:  is just some boobs. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  And it’s not even that long. 

Craig:  And it’s not, you know, it’s not It’s not well, it’s not it’s not gratuitous. It is gratuitous. Right. Right. It’s not sexually, graphic. It’s it’s just nudity. That’s all. 

Todd:  Well, I didn’t know how you were going to take this film, quite honestly. 

Craig:  And I don’t really 

Todd:  know. And I don’t know if it would have been better if I had told you. This is the kind of movie it is expected, and and maybe you would have taken it a different way. What do you think? Was I wrong in keeping it a completely secret from you? 

Craig:  I don’t know. You know, after we watched it, I took a break and and and tried to read up on it a little bit, and I really couldn’t find very much. So I don’t know that I would have really known any more coming in either way. And plus, I you know, sometimes we watch movies we’ve both seen. Sometimes we watch 1 that only 1 of us has seen. And I I kinda like the element of surprise and kinda not knowing what it’s gonna be going in. I had no expectations had I had any. 

Todd:  I I You still wouldn’t have, 

Craig:  Right. It it would’ve whatever expectations I would’ve had would’ve been defied, period. That’s true. It’s so strange. 

Todd:  There’s no way I really could’ve described Todd you that would have properly set you up for what 

Craig:  you 

Todd:  were getting into. 

Craig:  Right. I don’t know how I would it it it would be difficult to describe to anybody. I mean, it’s it’s it’s very different, and, you know, you know, I I like to consume as much of this stuff as I can. So I’m it’s not that I feel like it was a waste of time. Not my favorite. And Okay. And and probably not my favorite style. And like I said, I probably wouldn’t sit down and watch it again, but if, you know, if if somebody said sometime, I wanna see something just crazy, just out there, just totally wacky, I would recommend this movie. 

Todd:  There you go. 

Craig:  It’s it’s wacky. 

Todd:  Well, a lot of people will find, especially if they’re not haven’t seen many of them, some foreign films can seem out there to a boring extent. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  They’re so out there, they can be incomprehensible because they rely either they use a cinematic language that’s foreign to us or outdated. They, are touching on subjects that we’re not familiar with or even comfortable with here in the US, and they do it in certain ways that, again, is not conventional be based on what we’re familiar with coming out of Hollywood, that these movies can be difficult to understand and therefore difficult to enjoy. I think this is one of those foreign films that would cut across these boundaries because even though it’s difficult to understand and it’s really out there and weird and unlike anything you’ve ever seen before, it’s not for those reasons. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  It’s not because there’s something you’re you can you have to unpack here, and you’re gonna leave frustrated because you didn’t get it. 

Craig:  Right. Right. 

Todd:  Right? There’s nothing to get. There’s just something to to take in and and and enjoy the goofiness. 

Craig:  Right. I do also wonder how much got lost in translation, because the again, our languages are so different. And like you said, even the the real Japanese name of the protagonist, if it you know, gorgeous is one thing. You said it really probably more closely translate to angel, and that really kinda makes some thematic difference. Yeah. And so I wonder if, some of the jokes don’t translate well. I and I have a feeling that may be the case. It’s still funny.   All 3 of us were were chuckling and laughing at parts, and it it really seems like it’s playing for the humor as much if not more than anything else. And it is a goofy, wacky movie. 

Todd:  I think, for me, I I enjoyed the creativity and the cinematography. 

Craig:  I don’t know. The cinematography is so bizarre. I mean, they’re like and it seemed like there were times when he would do things with the cinematography that it was like, let’s just try something different here. Like, it didn’t really seem to have much purpose. Like, there’s 1 there’s 1 point where the girls were trying to call the police, and all of a sudden, the filming just became really staccato. Do you know what I mean? Like, just, like, jerky. 

Todd:  It’s like he undercranked the film just suddenly instead of seeing it, like, 24 frames per second, we’re seeing it at 12. 

Craig:  Yeah. And it was weird. And I didn’t unless he was just trying to, you know, make it 

Todd:  You’re right. 

Craig:  Super you know, like, a a supernatural atmosphere. I don’t know. It just seemed weird to me, and it was for and this, I’m sure, is just preference, but it was off putting. Like, it was hard to watch. Like, it almost gave me, like, a headache. Like, I I kinda wanted to look away. 

Todd:  And it went on for too long. Uh-huh. And you’re right. It didn’t seem quite as connected. It was harder to see. I don’t think it’s always successful. No. You’re absolutely right.   Anytime you’re doing something like this, you’re really playing around, and some of it’s gonna work and some of it’s gonna fall flat. I agree with you. I don’t think it’s a, a masterpiece of cinematography and that some of the choices maybe weren’t the best. But And you’re coming at this from the perspective of 

Craig:  a filmmaker. You make films, and I don’t. And so I think that it would be a really interesting thing for a filmmaker to watch just to see how he’s doing all these different things. I I don’t have that technical background. So Well and doesn’t it get kind of nice every once in 

Todd:  a while to see something that’s different? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Like, this is there are times in here where he’s trying he’s clearly trying to highlight something in the scene and whereas normally, we would do a close-up cutaway or we would somehow frame the shot so that even though it was happening in the background, your eye was drawn towards it. In this case, he just does, what do you call it, like a little spotlight where the screen kinda goes black and kinda zooms in on that one spot and then comes back out again. It’s it’s something you’d see in a music video. Mhmm. And and even then, it would be strange.   Yeah. It was interesting to see that happen a couple times in this movie. Again, I’m not sure if it worked, but so different. Right. I mean, I can there 

Craig:  are parts like the the piano eating the girl. It felt very music video to me. Yeah. But it was and it was so weird, but it was it was interesting to watch. I mean, it was it was very different. The special effects were or they were clearly not going for realism. You know? It’s it’s surrealism, and it it’s interesting to watch from that perspective. 

Todd:  Well, we have some definitely mixed opinions about this. I think Greg Craig and I agree more than we disagree about it, but I would sit down and watch it again, wholeheartedly. Not it’s not again my favorite movie, but, I enjoy it just for the goofy silliness of it. And I love sharing it with people because everyone has a different reaction to this, and some people absolutely love it, some people are more on the fence, and some people, like, leave halfway through. 

Craig:  Yeah. I just can’t take this. 

Todd:  I need to be more drunk. 

Craig:  Yeah. Right? I think that might have helped. But, no, I’m glad we watched it. I’m glad 

Todd:  you picked. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode of 2 guys in a chainsaw. If you like this podcast, please share it with a friend. Check us out on Facebook, iTunes, iTunes. Thank you. We’re on iTunes and Stitcher. And leave us a comment in one of these places to let us know what you think. We’d like to hear I mean, if you’ve seen House, if you’re one of the few people who’ve seen this movie, I would love to hear a chance. 

Craig:  I would 

Todd:  too. Until next time, I’m Todd And I’m Craig. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

With the release of 10 Cloverfield Lane to the theaters, we revisit 2008’s “spiritual predecessor,” Cloverfield. It’s a Godzilla movie told shaky-cam-style from the ground level, and we both agree it’s pretty rad.

Cloverfield (2008)

Episode 27, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig:  Hello, and welcome to another edition of 2 Guys in a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd:  And I’m Todd. 

Craig:  AAnd this week, we decided to watch the movie Cloverfield. A couple of weeks ago, we were recording and somehow no. Actually, we went the theater to see a film, and there was a preview for, 10 Cloverfield Lane. And Todd mentioned that he had never seen Cloverfield, which kinda blew my mind. How how did you miss this one? 

Todd:  You know what’s weird is this movie came out about the time that found footage films were really had almost been played out. Right? And and also at the same time that we were coming to terms with the fact that everybody had cameras around them all the time, and even even before our phones were really capable of video. I’ve been sick of the found footage films. I had to be honest. 

Clip:  When 

Todd:  I went to see Blair Witch Project when it came out 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Really was intrigued by that movie, but almost wanted to vomit at the end of it because of all of the shaky cam. 

Craig:  Uh-huh. 

Todd:  And when this movie came out, a lot of the buzz surrounding it was the fact that it was so shaky cam y that people were getting kinda feeling ill and sick. And that was actually enough to turn me away from this movie. Now, you know I’m a huge Godzilla fan. Right. And I knew this was a big monster movie, but, I don’t know. I just didn’t wanna go to the big theater and see this huge shaky cam film, especially since, again, the found footage thing didn’t really have that luster with me it had a couple years before, I thought I’ll just catch it on video or something, and I never did. 

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, I totally get what you’re saying about the found footage thing. After Blair Witch, it really blew up, and I I think that the reason that it was so popular with filmmakers is probably in many regards, not necessarily in this film, but it’s cheap, right? Mhmm. It’s it’s a lot cheaper to film. So I get that, but I think because this movie had such an interesting marketing campaign, and there was a lot of kind of mystery surrounding what the movie really was. Yeah. I was I was intrigued from the beginning. 

Todd:  Which they’re repeating with 10 Cloverfield Lane. It’s kind of amazing how they’ve been able to really pull that off the 2nd time. 

Craig:  I know I know next to nothing about that movie, and I’m glad. I don’t wanna know anything about it going in. And that’s kinda how I felt about this one. It’s funny because I went and I saw this in the theater, and I think, you know, seeing it on the big screen made a big difference, But I really liked it. Oddly enough, I get my level of horror, I think, mostly from my dad. And I didn’t go with him, I went with somebody else and he wanted to see it. So he rounded up a friend to go see it and because I Todd him that I liked it so much, and he hated it. He thought it was ridiculous.   He thought it was one of the stupidest movies he’d ever seen. In fact, he and the friend that he went with almost got kicked out of the theater for heckling. Are you serious? I’m serious. 

Todd:  Now that, I don’t understand that. 

Craig:  Why? I I’m not sure either. I guess they just thought it was silly. I didn’t. I think this movie is a lot of fun. You know? It’s fast paced. There’s a lot of action, I don’t know that I would necessarily say that it’s real scary, I mean there are elements of it that are scary, but I think we talked about this while the the film was playing. This was post 911. Mhmm.   And really that kind of panic and paranoia, when stuff goes down in this movie, that’s kinda what I found scary. Like, the human reaction not knowing what was going on, just, you know, unadulterated panic and fear and chaos in the streets. It’s it’s really tense and makes for a really tense experience. 

Todd:  You know, what really struck me when we were first watching this, this had never really occurred to me, is that being such a Godzilla fan, and they are my guilty pleasures. I just love Godzilla movies for, 5 or 6 different reasons, not necessarily because of the great cinematography, not necessarily because of the great special effects, But, for all that it’s worth, those Godzilla films, because they’re generally geared towards children, the giant monster movies, they really play down the human peril. And they’re never first person, Here’s what it’s like to be on the ground when this monster is attacking. Some of the later ones dive into that territory a little bit, but it’s way more so, about the monster destroying things. Mhmm. Right? Destroying the city, destroying giant objects, and I think that was, a thrill for people back then, because even by the standards of its day, the special effects were kind of cool, and much the way that Independence Day came along, and it was cool to see the White House blow up 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  And all these huge, monuments get destroyed. I feel like that’s what Godzilla did. But what it didn’t do was put you on the ground with the people in peril and make you imagine, well, what’s it really like to be running screaming from this monster? You just see these shots of people, you know, it’s almost a cliche of the Japanese people. But this movie, woah. It it really hammers home. This is what it’s like, and it’s terrifying I thought it was terrifying. 

Craig:  Well yeah that element of it is I mean we’ll get into the story but basically it is a Godzilla type monster I mean different in appearance obviously but the same kind of thing a giant monster rampaging through the city and like you said you know part of the fun of those old movies is watching the destruction of, like, familiar landmarks and whatnot. And you get that in spades here. Oh, yeah. It’s it’s really cool. You know, I’ve never been to New York, so everything I know about New York is from the movies and but, you know, they they take you on a little virtual tour of New York and just let this monster just come wreak destruction all over the city. And it’s scary, but it’s cool to watch. It’s really cool to watch. 

Todd:  Yeah. I was I was really impressed. Well, it starts out in a surprisingly compelling way. Yeah. It’s a guy behind a camera. His name is Hud, which is 

Craig:  actually the the 1st guy is, Rob. 

Todd:  You’re right. Rob is behind the camera, and he’s in, his girlfriend’s well, we don’t know this at the time, but a girl named Beth’s, 

Craig:  her dad’s apartment, I guess. Right. Which is exactly this apartment looks out over Central Park and Times Square. This must be, like, one of the wealthiest people 

Todd:  in here. We’re definitely among the 1% in New York right here. Just all of the apartments and, condos that we that we go through. And he’s going through, and camera kinda pans around and goes into this bedroom where there’s this girl. And I don’t even think we got her name at that point. Right. But later, we put together that this is Beth. Uh-huh.   This girl that he has slept with. And then the the camera cuts out. Oh, oh, he suggests that they go to Coney Island, and she’s never been to Coney Island. And so so they’re gonna go to Coney Island and make a day out of it, and you think that you’re gonna go along with them to Coney Island Right. And the date in the corner of the screen is April 27th, but then, immediately it cuts in with a a different date and some different footage and a different person behind the camera, which takes a little bit to figure out, but it becomes clear that this tape has been taped over. Right. Which comes into play a little later. At least it’s kind of a nice I actually thought it would come into play more 

Craig:  Uh-huh. 

Todd:  Later than it did. I was a little disappointed in that. I was waiting for a big payoff at the end. We’ll talk about that later. But, yeah. But that was a neat, effect. 

Craig:  Well, and it’s that opening scene is cool because you get introduced to these characters, but you’re just thrown right in, like, you don’t get any expositions, you don’t know what’s going on. It seems like these 2, Beth and Rob, you assume that they’re boyfriend and girlfriend. It seems really intimate. You know, they seem really comfortable with each other. It’s cute. It’s flirtatious. They seem to I would venture to say they seem like they’re in love, like a young couple in love. And it’s really sweet.   And that, you know, kind of sets up our expectations but then we jump a month in time and now the guy behind the camera is Jason who is Rob’s brother and he’s with his girlfriend, Lily, and they are on their way to a party, what we find out is a going away party for Rob. He has gotten a big promotion, and he is going to be relocating to Japan. To their hand. Right. So they’re excited. There you go. So they, so they’re throwing in this big, goodbye party, and that’s when we kind of get introduced to the other main characters that we’re going to be following along. Jason, like I said, is Rob’s brother.   He doesn’t want to do the filming. Lily says, you know, it’s like a wedding. You know how people go around and, like, do testimonials and and say their goodbyes and it’s just like, that’s what I want. And but he doesn’t wanna do it. So as soon as they get to the party, he pawns the camera off on this guy named Hud who is kind of their, like, goofy looking, goofy acting friend. And Hud is reluctant to take it, but as soon as he does take it and starts kind of talking to people around the party, he’s having fun with it and having a good time. And then we are pretty much seeing everything that plays out from Hud’s perspective from the rest of the movie because he he keeps this camera on him throughout. Now I know that one of your complaints with found footage films is why wouldn’t they put the camera down? Yeah.   You have said that over and over again. 

Todd:  And this movie needly solved that problem. Right. Because after a while, you become like a voyeur at this party. Because as soon as Hud’s gone around and he’s talked to some people, he talks to this woman named Lily. And his he says his job is to, document and he’s trying get those oh, the wedding thing where you look at the camera and you wish them well. Right. You’re supposed to wish Rob well off, you know, on his journey. And so he’s gonna try to hit everybody at the party.   And so he goes around the party and he’s hitting little scenes of the party here and there and he talks to Lily. He talks to this girl Marlena who’s sitting at the bar who is, like, a friend of somebody’s. 

Craig:  I think it’s Lily’s friend. That’s right. But he clearly has a crush on her. I at some point, I think even, Jason, that was one of his selling points with the cameras. Like, Marlena’s gonna be here. I don’t so, you know, 

Todd:  he’s HUD’s excited to to meet this girl. But, of course, she shows absolutely no interest in him whatsoever. 

Craig:  And it kind of funny to watch his bumbling attempts at flirtation from the other side of the camera. 

Todd:  It is. And it is funny. And I think the first person perspective has a lot to do with that too because being in his shoes and talking to these people, you feel like you’re at this party. Yeah. 

Clip:  Excuse me. Hey, Marlena. Hey. What’s up? Hi. Did you know that I’m going around, the party and I’m do you know Rob’s leaving? Like, it’s Todd going away party. Yeah. Cool. Hey.   So we’re taping people talking 

Todd:  about it. 

Clip:  Oh, no. Thank you. I I barely even know Rob. I’m just coming to say hi to Lily, so it’s a little weird that I’m even on it, I think. Okay. Cool. So I’m supposed   to get everybody. So, have you ever been to a wedding? Yeah. So I’ll take a quick look. You doing? I just I don’t wanna   do it, but thank you. Okay. Cool. We’ll just do a short one real quick. 

Todd:  And you kinda get wrapped up in it. 

Craig:  I don’t know. 

Todd:  I got kinda wrapped up. 

Craig:  Yeah. Well, it it and this isn’t always the case with found footage, but it felt authentic. It felt real, and and part of that is probably what made people sick. I mean, he’s not a professional videographer, you know, he’s moving the camera, you know, fast and all over the place, sometimes dropping it down so all we see is the floor, But it’s it that Todd me, it gives it a feeling of authenticity, like, you know, this this guy really is just carrying this camera around. 

Todd:  It it really did feel like that. He’s going from person to person, he talks to, Marlena. Marlena’s reluctant to say anything because she doesn’t really know Rob, but then she gets on and says something kind of funny. And then the camera then starts to turn toward the well, the next shot anyway, is of Rob coming in. Right. It’s a surprise party. Oh, he comes in. He’s surprised.   And he starts asking, well, is is Beth here? 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And, that starts into play, this mini drama going on where we and again, I thought this was clever because it gives us a reason to keep watching, it gives us a reason to be interested, but as you said, it also gives him a reason to keep filming. Right. Because it’s almost like Hud is filming all the juicy bits of what’s going on. Right? There’s some drama between him and Beth. And when Beth comes to the party, we realize that Beth is the girl who he had slept with Right. A month ago. But they obviously didn’t come in together. Right.   And she comes in with another guy named Travis. Mhmm. And so there’s suddenly some tension here. We don’t we it starts to unpack itself as Exactly. The video goes along. 

Craig:  Yeah. So, I mean, he can tell Hud, there’s tension, clearly between, Beth and Rob. Beth is there with another guy, a date, and, you know, it’s Rob’s party, but once Beth arrives, he kinda just sits off in a corner by himself and is just kind of watching her. 

Todd:  Mhmm. 

Craig:  So Hud tries to go and talk to him and figure out what’s going on, but he won’t, you know, say anything. And then so, Hud finally approaches Beth and tells her, you know, you should do this testimonial for Rob. Well, Travis is standing right there, so it’s awkward. So she sends him off to get her a drink, then she and Hud go in the kitchen, and her message is a little bit hesitant. She says something like, I didn’t want to do this on camera, but I’m so happy for you. I really want you Todd know how happy I am for you. And then she’s interrupted by Rob who grabs her and takes her off while while Hud follows them or tries to follow them. And this is kinda where we kinda get the fill the story, the the month that we’ve missed gets filled in.   He sees them arguing in the hallway, she says something like, well, you never called me, what was I supposed to do? But then they see that he’s filming, so they chase him back off into the party where he goes and finds Lily and says, we we know you know something. Yeah. You have to tell. 

Todd:  And she’s, like, oh, yeah. They slept together. Right. Which then is this humorous scene where he’s going and telling everybody at the party. Yeah. Did you know that, did you know that Rob and Beth slept together? Oh, I knew it. I’m like It’s like person to person. Yeah. 

Craig:  He spreads it around the whole party. Apparently, what has happened is that these 2, Rob and, and Beth have been friends forever, and Rob has forever been secretly in love with her. And, apparently, for whatever reason, the stars aligned and they hooked up, but then nothing else happened. He he didn’t contact her or anything. After, Rob and Beth come back inside, it’s clearly tense between them. Beth grabs her date, and they leave, and Rob just she says to him, good luck in Japan, and he says good luck tonight, Travis. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  It’s just kind of, you know, a dig, at her, and you can see in her face that it cuts her a little bit, but they leave. And then Hud and Jason, Rob’s brother, take Rob out on to the fire escape to talk about what’s going on. And, basically, they’re Jason’s ribbing him a little bit saying she, you know, she’s too good for you, you know that. But you love her, and she knows you love her, and and so maybe now is not the best time to go to Japan. And that’s when the shit hits the fan. 

Todd:  Yeah. And that came at the perfect time for me. I I thought it was well timed. At that point, they’re having this conversation out, and one thing this film does pretty well is it keeps you cognizant of the time as it’s going along. I mean, if you’re paying attention or you’re interested, you will see clocks in the Yeah. Background at different times. And so you see here that it’s about, oh, I think it was a little after midnight, that they’re out on the deck having this talk. And it’s the super late night, we’ve all been drinking 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Trying to reassure our friend talk, which comes across, like, stupid when you’re when you’re watching it. It Right. It’s just a bunch of, 

Clip:  oh, you know, you gotta get her, 

Todd:  and you gotta just go for your dreams and blah blah blah blah blah. 

Clip:  You’re not good enough for her. That’s it. That’s that’s fact. That’s science. Beth McIntyre is, like, from a whole another planet, man. She’s beautiful. She’s charming. And you, I love you, but let’s face it.   You’re kind of a douchebag. And going to Japan is not gonna fix that. She’s crazy about you, bro. Like, right now 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Clip:  As you were in love with her. But you gotta go after that. That simple. No. It is that simple. Come on, man. Don’t be scared. It’s about moments, man.   That’s all that I’m gonna learn to say, forget 

Todd:  And just when you’re like, okay. Okay. Let’s move on. Care care about the Bam. The lights go out. There’s this huge noise. And you can see behind them, from the balcony, obviously, that the lights are going out all across the city, and there’s general panic, and then the lights come back on. Do they see the monster at that point? They see something flying through the air, don’t they? Yeah.   Well no. As they’re escaping. 

Craig:  Yeah. At at first, they think that it’s an earthquake. Yeah. 

Todd:  To the roof. Right. 

Craig:  What they see they turn on the news real quick and the news, you know, they the news doesn’t know anything yet. They’re saying a possible earthquake. A barge is turning over. We’ve heard a barge capsized, near the Statue of Liberty. So they think we gotta get out of here, and and they all start to run down to the street, and there’s just mass chaos in the street. Everybody’s kind of converged down there. Actually, it was when they were still on the roof. There was a huge explosion, and that’s kind of what made them and and debris started flying towards them and was crashing down at the building on the building, and so that’s when they all get out.   And when they get down there, again, there’s this mass chaos, there’s these big explosions, and then a huge some huge piece of debris, like, ricochets off a building and comes screeching down the street, and HUD follows it with the camera. And when it stops, you realize it’s the head of the statue of the Lego Batman. 

Todd:  I think I remember that from the trailers. Yeah. That’s a real iconic moment and it’s obviously it tells you that everything is pretty serious. But also, I found it interesting that at that point, just like Hud, everybody around starts to pull out their phones Mhmm. And they’re taking pictures of it. Yeah. And this was something obviously, it’s a theme of the whole film. And as you said earlier, you wonder why people start to die.   You know, why do why do people not put down the camera? Later on, HUD says something very specific. I think they they escape, there’s some big, billowing dust storm, they jump into a 

Craig:  it’s like 

Todd:  a convenience store in there, where some more explosions happen, and then as they step back out, I think they see just a little something flitting by. 

Craig:  Well, you see, like, in the silhouette of the buildings in the distance, kind of between the buildings, you see some massive movement. Yeah. 

Clip:  I mean, 

Craig:  you can’t really tell what it is. You can see that something large is moving back there. Of course, you know, everything is really dusty and cloudy because buildings are collapsing, and we all saw what happened on 911 when the buildings collapsed. I mean, it was Yeah. Just debris everywhere. 

Todd:  And the billowing dust too. I mean, it was all straight out of that. 

Craig:  Yeah. Well, and, you know, they when the explosions start happening, you hear people in the background, is it terrorists? Is it terrorists? And, you know, I think it it really played on that paranoia. I think it it did so on purpose, you know, that was kind of the conclusion that they jumped to which would be a logical conclusion especially, you know, that soon after 9/11 but it’s you know yeah it is it establishes we’re in a disaster at this point And and that scene with the head is really cool. I remember that teaser trailer. That was the first thing that got me intrigued. I saw it in the theater. I don’t remember what it played before, but it was just that scene of the the Statue of Liberty heads flying down the street, and just the image of that. And they they shot that before they even went into production.   Oh, really? Mhmm. They shot that as the teaser before they even went into production, and they had to enlarge the Statue of Liberty head by 50% because test audiences thought that it looked too small. Oh. I think I think that we all have this vision of the Statue of Liberty being this gargantuan thing, when in reality, it’s not as large as we picture. 

Todd:  Yeah. You can’t like, it’s not like the arch where you can go inside and you’re sort of stepping from window to window Right. Around her crown. It’s sort of like you poke your head up in the in the crown and that’s it. Yeah. It’s it’s small. It’s very small. 

Craig:  But it could I’m glad they did. I’m glad they made it bigger. It looked cool. 

Todd:  Yeah. And that and that was and I think that’s when they meet up with Marlena. So we’ve got Marlena. We have Lily. We have Jason. Robin Hud. Robin Hud. They’re like, what? What? But of course it’s general panic, and they’re more interested in running, especially when things start exploding again.   And so the it seems like the military or somebody has kind of come in at this point and is guiding everyone towards the bridge. The Brooklyn Bridge. The Brooklyn Bridge. So there’s a mass of people crossing the Brooklyn Bridge. This is the point where, I think it’s, Rob turns around and says to Hud, why are you still filming? And he says, well, I gotta film this. People are gonna wanna see this later. Right. Right? So immediately, you have your excuse.   You had your excuse at the party for why he was filming, you had your excuse at the party why he continued to film, because it was kinda saucy, and then you had your excuse of why he felt like he had to document Todd. 

Craig:  And it document it. Todd does make sense. I mean, we’re all documentarians now. You know, we’ve all got cameras in our pockets, and that’s why, you know, you see so much footage in the news of things that we just didn’t see before because not everybody had a a video camera in their pocket. So it makes sense, and I believe it. Not only do I believe that he would really think that, like, people are gonna wanna see this. They’re gonna wanna wanna know how it went Todd. But I also believe that filming it gave him something to to do and to keep his mind off of how scary what was going on was. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. I think you’re absolutely right. No. I think you’re absolutely right. Because he took that job pretty seriously. He puts his camera trained on the action. He kept moving, he picked it up when he dropped it. Mhmm.   There’s a lot of cleverness actually in the way that this is filmed, to keep our interest, to give us a little variety, and Todd also give us excuses to see things. For example, there are times when HUD puts down the camera to help somebody. Mhmm. So the camera sits down on the ground, and maybe, it’s something kind of gross. Right. So the camera doesn’t quite capture the visual of what you’re seeing, but it’s just a nice way of keeping it PG 13. I think for the audience, but also very realistic and then you would actually end up putting your camera down a few times. 

Craig:  Of course, of course. 

Todd:  So, yeah, it all went very well. Well, and the 

Craig:  other thing that I liked about that, and I was appreciative of the fact that Hud was the one behind the camera, because he’s a goofy guy. 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Craig:  And this movie is funny, you know. It is. There are lots of places in this movie where you’re laughing, but again, it doesn’t seem forced, you know? It just seems like this is his personality, and, you know, his reactions seem genuine, but you laugh at them because that’s probably how you would react Todd, you know, just swearing and, Oh shoot, oh shoot, oh my god, oh my god. And, you know, when he’s, talking to people, his personality comes through. I mean, he’s a goofy guy. At one point, I think before they go to the bridge no. It’s not before they go to the bridge. He just says stuff like, guys, I think we better run.   You know, just the the way you really would talk Exactly. And it’s funny because you don’t normally see that kind of naturalness in a horror movie like this. 

Todd:  Yeah. And you could place yourself there. Yep. That’s exactly what I’d be saying. That’s exactly what my friends would be doing. And HUD HUD itself is kind of a joke. I I you know, if you’re a gamer, first person gamer, or maybe in the military, HUD is short for heads up display. Oh, yeah.   Which is usually a first person, type thing where you put on a helmet. I think the Comanche helicopter is one of the first, things to do this, where you put on a helmet and wherever you turn it tracks things and shows things up on the display. I thought that was kinda it. It is Nicholas, but but, yeah, they go on to this bridge and, you see Jason, the, which was Rob’s brother hanging from kind of a lamp pole. He’s goofing off a little bit. 

Craig:  Well, they get separated because Rob has been trying to call That’s right. Beth, but he hasn’t been able to get through to her. But when they’re on the bridge, and now the bridge is completely crowded, and it’s the the crowd is moving en masse. Mhmm. So Rob, the phone rings, and it’s Beth. And so he kinda goes off to the side, and Lily and Hud and Marlena, he’s he calls for them to wait. And and they do wait, but Jason gets kind of pushed by the crowd of. That’s right.   And so claims a hole to try to to ask them. 

Clip:  Did you 

Todd:  stop? And then giant tail comes, flicking out of the ocean onto the bridge and whacks Jason means very first to go. Right. 

Craig:  I mean, we’re talking giant tail. I mean, it just, you know, karate chops the the bridge, and the bridge, collapses. 

Todd:  Yeah. And that’s the first we really truly see of the monsters. Really, the first indication we know for sure, okay, this is a giant monster movie in case you didn’t know going into it, Because it’s unmistakably a giant tale. 

Craig:  Right. Absolutely. And of course, you know, everybody who survived this event, you know, turns and starts running the other way. And, you, you know, it’s again, it’s just Hud running, so it’s really shaky. You can’t really see what’s going on. You can’t really see if he’s been able to stick with the other characters. But eventually, kind of in the distance in front of him, you see them, Lily, Rob, and Marlena kind of go off to the side. They Todd running and kind of go into, like, this entrance to a store or something. 

Todd:  Is this the store they were looting or no? 

Craig:  Well, it’s right across the street. That’s right. And, you know, it’s like they pause to collect themselves. Of course, Lily’s upset. You know, her boyfriend fiance was just killed. It was Rob’s brother. He’s upset. Marlena’s trying to comfort Lily.   Hud is kinda trying to comfort Rob, but Rob is, you know, just kinda shell shocked, I think. Well, at that 

Todd:  point where Rob seems really shell shocked, actually, I was thinking, he’s awfully shell shocked. He’s stumbling around. He clearly has something on his mind. And we know that Beth is on his mind. Right. But he seems very indecisive, and he’s stumbling. And I’m thinking at that time, and I turned to you, and I said, does he know more about what’s going on? Is he putting, like, puzzle pieces together in his head? Because I’m thinking back to the fact that this is recorded over another tape when they went to Coney Island. 

Clip:  Right. 

Todd:  And I was thinking later on, we were gonna see some hint of something that they caught at Coney Island that informs what’s going on now. Well, do you know that in fact we do kind of see that at the end? No. Oh, okay. Alright. You’re gonna have to explain this to me when we get there. Okay. Because I was looking really hard for it, and 

Craig:  I didn’t find it. It’s tiny. It’s so hard to see. 

Todd:  Oh, okay. 

Craig:  Alright. He doesn’t know anything. Okay. But you were right to be looking because there is something. Okay. Okay. And I’ll tell you when we get there. But yeah.   He I mean, he’s concerned about Beth. Okay. And, you know, he’s talked Todd her on the phone and I don’t know if he actually spoke to her. I think he just got a voicemail from her and she seems to be crying. She said you hear him say, what do you mean you can’t move? So she’s in distress apparently somewhere. And so pretty much at that point, he decides that he’s gonna go find her. 

Todd:  Well, he they go into the electronics store first. Right? 

Craig:  Right. Because the battery on his phone is dying. 

Todd:  And I didn’t even put that together, that I I know he was trying to listen to the voicemail. I thought he kind of heard it, but then they go into this electronics store that people are looting across there. And it’s a it’s a clever device to take us out of the limitations of this first person thing, and give us a little taste of something else. Mhmm. Where there are giant screens in this electronics store, and HUD can train the camera on the giant screen where the news broadcast is going, where we can see that there’s a monster going. 

Craig:  Oh, and it’s a funny shot, because you see all the looters just standing there around with Even if you don’t have a bar of electronics. 

Clip:  Continue now with our breaking news story in lower Manhattan. We are getting some truly extraordinary live images here in the studio. For those of you just joining us, Lower Manhattan is in an absolute state of siege. 

Craig:  What is 

Todd:  At the be in the meantime, Rob is going through, like, the Nokia, chargers. Right. And the first thing going through my mind is, oh, yeah. That would probably be a good thing to do because I remember how expensive those things were. When when everybody’s phone had a different charger, and they charged, like, $50 for them. You know, that’s really clever. But no, he was looking for a charger so that he could For 

Craig:  a battery. A new battery. 

Todd:  So that he could hear the entire message Right. That she left. And and 

Craig:  he does, and and they all kind of do. When he finally does get the message playing, everything else kind of falls quiet. And it makes sense because everybody else is watching the big screen Yeah. Quietly. And on the big screens, finally, we really do get a pretty decent shot of this monster, an aerial view. Not a 100%. We can’t see exactly what it is, but it’s clearly a big gangly monster Yeah. Working his way through the city. 

Todd:  It’s like the news camera, the traffic copter that went by and got footage of this thing from way above. Right. 

Craig:  Yeah. So they, he decides Rob decides 

Todd:  that he’s gonna go, find her. Rob, it’s it’s time we leave the electronics store. 

Craig:  Yeah. There are several funny lines that went Rob runs off to the electronics store, and Hud goes after him chasing him, and he says something, like, dude, I can’t 

Todd:  handle all this running. Just 

Craig:  little funny things like that, and that would so be me. Slow down. The military is evacuating everybody else, and Rob says, you guys go. You know, go with everybody else. Get out of here, but I have to go get her. But they don’t. They, I guess, decide to stay with him, and they run with him. And then they end up they’re walking down the street, and I feel like this is the point where they come right like, they are faced with the monster.   Like, it steps around the corner right in front of them. And then from behind them, the military starts to advance. So they are right in between the monster and this huge military force that’s shooting rockets and machine guns. There’s a 

Todd:  tank going down there. And and it it felt so much like a Godzilla film except being on the ground with those people. Yeah. It was so it’s such an iconic scene from a different perspective. Right. That I don’t know. It was really thrilling for me. And It was great action.   Oh, it was. And they did they Rob from across the street, there’s they’re across the street from each other, motions down to HUD that they should get down essentially into the subway. Right? Just around the corner. So they go out, and this is when you get your first really clear view of the monster. As he’s turning the corner to go down in the subway, swings his camera up, and you see this giant head with these huge teeth and jaw. 

Craig:  And it’s right above it. 

Todd:  Yes. Oh, but before this, there was a a segment where we noticed that the monster was spewing out or shooting out some kind of small creatures. 

Craig:  On the news, yeah, it said, some kind of debris seems to be Falling. Falling. And then we see on news cameras that what is falling off of this thing are smaller creatures. I would say, like, the 

Todd:  size of large dogs. Spider y kind 

Craig:  of Insect like. Yeah. Kinda reminded me of, like, Starship Troopers kind of thing. Thinking. And these things are attacking people on the ground. I don’t one of the things that I like about this movie is that they never really explained the nature of what is happening. Correct. We don’t really know what this monster is.   We don’t know where it came from. 

Todd:  And these spidery things, like, how would they, like yeah. It’s bizarre. 

Craig:  Right. Yeah. We like, is this monster, like, intentionally 

Todd:  is it molting? Is this how it reproduces? Like, what’s going on? 

Craig:  But regardless, it’s freaking scary. 

Todd:  Yeah. Well, and it serves the purpose of keeping the tension up throughout, because you eventually are going to get to a point in this film, where you think, well, it’s just a giant monster, let’s go down to the subway, and we’ll just wait it out. I mean, the threat is large, and it’s obvious where it is, and as long as you can get subterranean, and, hole out for the threat, you’re gonna be okay 

Craig:  Right. You’d think. And that’s kind of basically what they decide, you know, they get down into the subway. As HUD had been going down, he was the last one to go down, like you said, he swings his camera around. We see a huge explosion and all kinds of debris falls down into, the subway staircase. So they know what’s up there. Rob suggests that maybe they cross the platform and go up on the other side, but I think it’s HUD says, we know what’s up there. We just saw it.   So they so they just kinda wait for a while. And and we get a little bit and again, I feel like it’s such a good balance. There is Yes. There is comedy. There is action, but then there are these little human moments. Mhmm. Rob’s phone starts ringing, which I don’t know if I believe that his phone would be working down in the subway. 

Todd:  Oh, you’d be surprised. Really? Yeah. The phones do work in the subway. Oh, well, there you go. 

Craig:  Yeah. Learn something new every day. Yeah. 

Todd:  I don’t know if they install special things down there or what. 

Craig:  But he, he’s hesitant to pick up the phone. He lets it ring several times. So I’m thinking most definitely not Beth because, he would answer that right away. So finally, he kind of walks away, and he answers the phone. We hear him say, hi, mom. Yeah. At first, he kind of reassure he says, we’re okay. We’re being evacuated.   He’s lied to her. Right. We’re being evacuated. But then he tells her the truth. He he says we were on the bridge when when that happened, and and Jason’s dead. And then he doesn’t really talk anymore. But you can tell by the way that he’s reacting that, obviously, he’s reacting to his mother’s grief, and it’s it’s it’s a nice little human moment. 

Todd:  It really was. And again, not at least, I think, you don’t see these You get a giant disaster movie, or you get a film like Aliens, where people are running and all the time, and people are dying getting picked off as they run. People rarely stop and assess the gravity of their situation. People at times become body counts for freights, and in this particular case it’s not. 

Craig:  It makes sense to an extent. I mean, if you really were in that kind of peril, I think some of your survival instinct would take over. Oh, yeah. You have to do that. But that’s why you’re right. In those types of movies, we usually don’t get the type of moment where they do have a moment to realize the gravity of what’s going on. And I liked that about this. It made the characters real.   It made them believable, and I I don’t know how they did it. You know that that party scene is actually kind of long in the beginning Mhmm. But for whatever reason, they got me invested in these characters, and I cared about these characters, and I cared about what was gonna happen to them. And I legitimately wanted and this is rare in a horror movie. Usually, I’m waiting to see people picked off. I wanted these folks to make it. So when they didn’t, it had to 

Todd:  be you were ready. Yeah. Yeah. It it it’s it’s a remarkable feat, really, to do that. And, certainly, something they didn’t have to do, but certainly something that added to the movie big time by making you care about these characters. And it’s interesting how something as superficial, essentially as that party scene. And I think it’s the familiarity. I think we can all insert oursel where many of us can insert ourselves into that kind of party, into that kind of situation.   And maybe the 1st person perspective has a lot to do with it too. That we were literally inserted into that Right. Situation, felt like an attendee at this party, and almost adopted all of these characters Right. As our friends. They got immediately into the drama of the situation. And if they hadn’t stopped to take that moment, that might have been left back there. 

Craig:  I yeah. I I think so too. Right? It it’s a nice moment. Mhmm. But, basically, they’re kinda stuck down there. Eventually, Rob looks at the subway map, and he realizes where they are. They’re on the 6 line. I don’t know what that means, but he does.   And he’s looking at the map, and he kinda shows them and shows us that if we just, you know, take this a certain amount of distance down this way and then switch to a different line, we can get right to where that’s house is. And they don’t have any better plan so that’s what they do. They go walking through the dark subway tunnels. And there’s another bit of comedy here, you know. Of course, they’re scared. It’s uncomfortable, But Hud, you know, Hud wants to keep talking. Apparently, these quiet moments are what makes him the most uncomfortable. And so he brings up this totally kind of inappropriate conversation.   Hey. 

Clip:  Do you guys remember a couple of years ago when that guy was lighting homeless people on fire in the subway? Jesus, Todd. What? Maybe not the best topic for conversation down here. Right. I just can’t stop thinking how scary it would be if a flaming homeless guy came 

Craig:  out of the dark right now. 

Clip:  I’m just saying. 

Craig:  He’s just a funny guy. And even though we don’t see him very much, he is really developed as a character Todd. Even though he’s not visible on camera very often, he’s still very much a character, and I do feel like it puts us in his shoes. Know, it 

Todd:  makes me wonder how they filmed this. I don’t know if you know the answer, but did they actually have the actor running the camera? They Some 

Craig:  of it. Did they? Some of it. 

Todd:  It seems like the kind of movie that could have been that way, that some of these moments wouldn’t have come across quite as well if the actor hadn’t been there, or maybe he was just running alongside the camera Right. At that time. 

Craig:  Yeah. Some of it was actually filmed by the actor. That’s it 

Todd:  it was. Oh, that’s cool. And at this point, you feel like they’re relatively safe, except for we know that there are smaller little creatures out there. And I don’t know about you, but that was a niggling fact in the back of my head this whole time, thinking, they’re not quite out of the boat yet. Right. Which was, again, it was smart of them to insert these creatures in there. 

Craig:  The first time that I saw it, I don’t think that I was thinking about that. I think that I that I had just kind of forgotten about those little things or whatever. I mean, I knew they pop up again, but I didn’t necessarily think here. But I liked this scene a lot because as they’re walking along, Marlena kind of freaks out and goes, ew, ew, so gross. And, Hud points the camera down, which there’s a a light on the camera which is how they can see down there. And hundreds of rats are running by them in the same direction that they’re going, and, somebody says they’re all running in the same direction. And they don’t even really have to have any further discussion, like, this can’t be good. 

Todd:  This can’t be good. They’re escaping something. 

Craig:  Right. It’s like the Titanic, you know. I’m gonna follow the rats. Yeah. And so they start running, but then they hear something behind them. And so they pause, and Rob gets the idea. He’s like, 

Todd:  oh, you got night vision on that camera. Here, let me switch it on for you. And you know I mean, you know what’s gonna happen. Mhmm. But even after it happened, I was totally freaked out. Yeah. Where the he flips on the night vision. Of course, they’re pointed down this dark tunnel, swings the camera around, and you see these creatures on the ceiling getting ready to pounce on.   Mhmm. And pounce on them, 

Craig:  they do. Yeah. And they get attacked, and it’s a pretty brutal attack. I mean, each each one of them, I think, goes down at some point. Mhmm. And these things, we they’re not as big, obviously, as the big monster outside, but they’re the size of, like, really big dogs. Yeah. We totally believe that one of these things could take a person out.   But they fight back. At one point, I think that, Hud beats 1 of the monsters off somebody else, and then he gets attacked by 1. Marlena comes in. Comes to his rescue, and she knocks the the bug or monster or whatever it is off of him, but then she gets attacked. Eventually, they’re able to get her away, and they find, I don’t know, one of those, like, access rooms or something in the subway. It’s like 

Todd:  a break room And she’s got 

Craig:  a pretty bad bite mark, on her shoulder on the and she’s got a pretty bad bite mark, on her shoulder on the front and back. And again, you know, there’s kind of a sweet moment where Hud kind of talks to her and and kind of helps her clean up, and you can tell that she’s, kind of, warming to him a little bit. It’s another cute little moment before we jump right back into the action. Yeah. 

Todd:  And he thanks her for saving his life because she was the one who beat her, beat the the monster off of her in camp. And then of course they’re discussing what to do. Well, we go into the subway and get attacked. We can go out on the street and get attacked, or we can, 

Craig:  stay in here and die. 

Todd:  So let’s just go out, on the street, and so that’s what they do. 

Craig:  Well, they don’t go out on the street, and this is kinda confusing to me, even though I think I’ve got it figured out. 

Todd:  Okay. 

Craig:  They open a door down there where they are, and they go into, like, a A shopping area. Yeah. Like a like a shopping center. 

Todd:  Like an underground shopping center, is 

Craig:  that Right. Probably right. Probably, like, the basement of a shopping center or something. And and it would maybe make sense that there would be a subway access down there. So they get in there, and they get a little ways in, and Marlena stops and says, I feel dizzy. And they said, well, do you need to stop? Should we rest for a little while? And she says she takes a deep breath and says, no. I’ll be okay. They move in a little bit further, and all of a sudden, here comes The military.   The military. Yeah. They pop I don’t know. They corral, you know, our our main characters and and move them into this what looks like a makeshift, like, medical 

Todd:  area. Contingency hospital down there. Right. And tons of people injured, and tons of people sitting there. And a little bit of chaos in the military mixed wind. 

Craig:  And you see on a a, stretcher go by or a gurney, this guy whose entire abdomen looks like it’s either been eaten or, like, some exploded from the ins inside or something, and it goes by really fast. 

Todd:  This is such a clever sequence. It really is. Because that guy you well, my initial thought anyway was, yeah. He got stomped on or he got eaten. Right. Mhmm. But And then well, and then later, you see another it looks like a case go by, and you see one of these animals inside of it. 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And again, all this is through the camera. So it’s it’s flashes here and flashes there. Yeah. It’s kind of blinking. You miss it. And then the camera trains back on Marlena, and she’s and suddenly she looks like death. She’s completely white. She has blood coming from her nose And eyes.   And eyes. And, Hud’s like, Marlena, we need to get you something. Immediately some nurse or somebody jumps out and grabs her and says we’ve got, she’s got a bite, a bite. And everybody pounces on her and it’s mass chaos as they pull her away and they’re like what are you doing? And they’re going after her and they’re pulling her away and they’re like no no no. And then, again, brilliantly keeping this movie 13. 13 takes her they take her behind Like a scrim. A scrim, essentially, and she’s so she slid from behind so you can see Shadow, and then you see this this big splatter of blood go up on the Craig, and she falls down. And at the time I was thinking did they shoot her? Or did something happen? And it’s only when you if you care to go back and piece it together with the guy, on the gurney that you’re thinking maybe we’re in the alien’s territory.   Right. Right. Or she was bit, she was infected, and somehow something burst out of her. Right. Or That they immediately killed. Yeah. Right. It’s very ambiguous.   You really 

Craig:  don’t know. Right. You don’t know. Again, you know, there’s no time for them to stop and, you know, they ask questions. Nobody’s gonna answer their questions. They ask the first, like, general that, is escorting them in, and they say, do they know what it is? And they say, he says, well, if they know, they haven’t told me. So it’s it’s it’s mass confusion. Nobody really knows what’s going on.   But, Rob keeps telling the military guys, you got to let me go. You got to let me go. My friend is in trouble. I She’s in midtown. I have to go find her. And initially, they’re, no, no, no, no, no. But after Marlena dies, that general, the first one, kind of takes them all aside and says, if you wanna go up there, I’m not gonna stop you. But here’s the thing.   The government has already decided that if we can’t take this thing out. It’s 0 600. Right. We’re gonna do operation hammer down. And they want to know, of course, what that means, and he says, we’re gonna take out the whole area. And Rob says, you mean all of Midtown? He says, all of Manhattan. Mhmm. They’re we’re gonna we’re gonna blow the whole thing.   The hammer down protocol. Right. So he tells them, if you get to her and you can get back to this particular place where there are gonna be helicopters, they’ll get you out of here. But if you don’t make it by then, there are no guarantees. 

Todd:  Yep. He’s really stepping out on a limb here to help these people because nobody else was gonna let them go out. 

Craig:  Right. Right. And and what does he have to lose, really? Yeah. Exactly. So anyway, they go out, and then it seems like they’re kind of conveniently close. 

Todd:  I mean, but they have been working their way towards her. So Well, and I think when they come out too of the subway, he goes, oh, it’s the 39th Street Station. Like, they they make a comment, like, oh, I guess we are already here. Right. But you’re right, it was not far along enough in this tunnel for that they actually be there. Right? But they see the building that Beth, apparently, her apartment building is toppled over, kind of leaning against another building that is still standing. And, so then I was like 

Clip:  That’s our best place, is it? Oh my god. Is that best apartment? Oh my god. Bro, is that our place? Tell me that’s not her place. That’s her place. Yeah. Oh, shit. I don’t suppose she was on the ground floor. No.   39th. Okay. How do we even get up there? I don’t know. We just go inside and then see how high we can get. I don’t know if I can do that. Well, may maybe we could try going up the other building and then see if there’s a place to cross over under a roof, and then we could find some way down to our place. Wait. No.   Never mind. No. That’s a bad idea. Hey. That’s a bad idea. I take that back. No. Never listens to me ever.   And you know, of course, they listen to me. 

Craig:  And it is funny, but 

Todd:  it doesn’t seem forced. It doesn’t 

Craig:  seem like they’re trying to put shtick in there. It seems natural. 

Todd:  Well, and and that, you know, we’ve seen movies where it seemed a little too cute for its own. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Even, I don’t know. Did you ever see did you see Deadpool? That’s out right now. 

Craig:  No. I haven’t seen it yet. 

Todd:  So Deadpool’s kind of known for being a comedic thing or whatever. But that film for me, the dialogue was too cute. You gotta be careful. 

Craig:  People are fanboying hard hitting the audience. 

Todd:  I know that. I’m telling you it wasn’t a bad movie, but, it just Todd actually really talks them. Right. Right. No matter how clever they are. And, when you see that inserted in a film, for me anyway, it takes me out of it. And Yeah. You were right.   This all seems very natural. Even the comedy doesn’t take you out of it. Yeah. And that’s does it very well. Not many movies can 

Craig:  do that. I agree. I really am a big fan. I think it strikes a great tone. So they execute the plan. They climb up something like 50 some flights of stairs, but they finally get up to a place where they are able to climb out onto the roof. And it’s it’s really scary looking. I mean, it’s it’s in a pretty steep angle.   Only Rob is really, you know, confident about doing this. The other 2 really don’t want to, but 

Todd:  Well, that’s the neat thing about this film is every single step of the way, there’s an intense incredible motivation to do something. Once the party is done and they are trying to escape, there’s motivation to just get away from this monster, figure out what it is, get into hiding. But then immediately, the impetus and urge for us to move ahead is we’ve gotta find Beth. And Rob is so interested in finding Beth because of his guilt Yeah. That he left her on such bad terms and he really does love her. And he made that horrible quip Right. To Travis at the end. So that’s the motivation.   And you’re right, at that moment where they’re leaving from roof to roof, you can tell that it’s him pulling them along. They really don’t want 

Craig:  to do this, but they’re going to go along because he’s a friend. Well, then there’s also that I can only imagine that in an intense circumstance like that, you would do just about whatever you had to do to stay together. Yeah. You would never want to get separated from the herd if you could avoid it. 

Todd:  And, you know, if my wife had been a little distant from me, and had called, and I had gotten this horrible message on the phone, absolutely, it is not unrealistic at all. Right. That what have I got to lose, things are in utter chaos, I could die, I need to at least make sure that she’s okay or has the closure. 

Craig:  Right? Right. So they they get in there, and they actually do, they get into Beth’s apartment, and her apartment is pretty much destroyed, the windows are busted in, there’s rubble everywhere, but they find her, and she’s impaled on like a, metal, Rebar. Yeah. Right. But she’s alive. 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s kind of gone through her shoulders. 

Craig:  Right. And then that’s like you said before, you know, it’s it’s an excellent device that HUD is able to put the camera down so that we don’t actually see them pull her off. We don’t see any gore, but we know we you know, we can just kinda see her legs, and then everything else is obstructed by, like, a piece of debris or something. But they pull her off, they get her off, and then and we have to say for the kids listening at home, don’t don’t do this. Oh, no. 

Todd:  If somebody’s in jail, do not take the if they’re alive You know, 

Craig:  I mean, here bar in there. Here, I guess, there’s, you know, they’ve got nothing to lose, but it’s totally unrealized. 

Todd:  Well, it’s a bad idea. Well she can start bleeding. 

Craig:  Oh, of course. 

Todd:  The rebar could be holding in her, you know, could be what’s stopping her from bleeding. Right. 

Craig:  I mean, it could puncture her lung any number of things, you know. Yeah. Terrible idea. Now what I mean, what choice do they have? She’s gonna die one way or another, I guess. Sure. 

Todd:  Yeah. In that building. And with the monster, which we could see in the back of the road. Approaching. 

Craig:  Right. It’s it’s being bombarded by the military from behind, so it’s approaching them. Again, more comedy. Beth says, what is that? And then it says, I don’t know. Something terrible. And then 

Todd:  as they’re going down the stairs to leave, they encounter one of those spider monsters, Which is again a very good thing because now we know the stakes with that spider thing. It doesn’t matter if if it bites you, you’re a goner. Right. So that makes that even brief scene be even more intense and even more menacing, and he’s like what was that? Something even more terrible. Terrible thing went out. So funny. 

Craig:  But they they get out, of the building. 

Todd:  And this is again where the film is coming to its climax and converging. We’ve been we know in the back of our heads, they only have a limited amount of time to get it out of there before the military takes 

Craig:  them out. 

Todd:  And we’ve seen ominously every so often these ch jets fly overhead. Right. It’s constantly reminding you that the the clock is ticking, and the monster is not your only danger here. 

Craig:  Right. And so this is when and, again, they get there really quick. And the the helicopter place must have been really close to her dad’s apartment. Yeah. They get there really quick, and they’re the military is loading people into helicopters. They’re loading 1 and Lily gets on, but then, like, that’s capacity, so they cut it off. And and she’s banging on the windows, like, she doesn’t want to leave her friends, but, they they take off and, you know, the others just kind of yell, we’ll be right behind you. Meanwhile, the monster is really nearby like.   Like blocks away. Yeah. And maybe even a block away, like super, super close. But Hud, Beth, and Rob also get into a helicopter, and as they’re flying away, it’s this awesome aerial shot. It it’s so funny because Hud, he realizes how awesome he, are you guys seeing this? Are you guys seeing this? And what we’re seeing is the military taking a full strike against this monster. They’re coming in behind it. They’re shooting missiles and rockets at it and, Carpet bombing it, basically. Right.   And it’s running along. It seems to be being injured and hurt, and eventually, it gets hit with something big, and it goes down. And, of course, we can’t see anything because it falls into that, like, debris cloud. Right. Of dust and whatnot. And, Hud says, oh my god. They got him. They got him.   And then out of that cloud leaps the beast at the, helicopter. Wow. Teeth blaring. 

Todd:  I was not seeing that coming at all. I imagine that the film is wrapping up at this point. And and it takes down their helicopter. Their helicopter goes into a spin, and it’s terrifying. And I think Craig, that first person view, you’ve seen this so much in movies, but you’ve never been in the helicopter when this going down Mhmm. And you just think you’re gonna die. 

Craig:  Oh, absolutely. And I think they were I thought they 

Todd:  were going 

Craig:  to be dead. I thought that was gonna be it. And in fact, I was reading on, IMDB that a lot of people are critical and say, oh, there’s no way they could have survived the helicopter crash. Yeah. 

Todd:  Well, it’s pretty true. Well and something 

Craig:  that I read said, you know, if these are military, pilots, they’re trained for, you know, tactical landings and whatnot. Okay. Alright. Something awesome. I’ll buy that. They crash. It seems like the crew is killed, but the 3 friends have all survived. They have to pull Rob out.   He’s apparently injured his leg. Hud puts down the camera to help pull him out and they do pull him out and they start running off together. Hud realizes that he’s forgotten the camera. He runs back to grab it, and the other 2 turn back to see him and scream and say, HUD, HUD. He picks up the camera, and looks up, and he’s standing directly underneath this huge monster, and we get just right close-up shot of this monster at this point. 

Todd:  The movie gives you everything. It gives you that on the ground between military and the monster. It gives you so much, and it even gives you a first person perspective of what it’s like to be eaten by this thing. The monster clamps down on him right on the camera, right on us as the audience. And I imagine if I had been in the theater seeing this, this would have been a moment where everybody was going 

Craig:  hey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. 

Todd:  He and so how’s dad? I mean, they crunch he crunches them up and somehow the camera falls out. And the others, probably the only time when it seems a little inexplicable is the others end up grabbing the camera and running it with them. 

Craig:  It that there I can’t think of any reason why they would have gone back for the camera except for that they really didn’t. The monster drops Hud out of its mouth. I mean, you see Hud from, like, the shoulders up on on camera, they run back to make sure that he’s dead, you know, that if if if he’s alive, they want to help. Now, again, I don’t know. Did the monster step away for a minute? Yeah. I’m not really sure. 

Todd:  I think maybe there’s a passage of time in there. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. Like like, it’s one of those things where the camera got kinda got knocked and then kinda got turned back on again later. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  I mean, you can hear them calling from kind 

Craig:  of a distance. They must be running back. They see right away that he’s dead. But, Rob grabs the camera and they take off running. They’re in Central Park, and they find one of those stone bridges, in Central Park. And they go down underneath there. You’re hearing bombing all over the place. And Rob just kind of turns the camera on.   I mean, they’re panicking. It’s not like this is a calm moment. Beth is crying, and she’s saying she’s so scared. She’s so scared. And he turns the camera on himself, and he says, I’m Rob, whatever his last name is. And he kind of explains what’s happened to them, over the course of the night. And he turns the camera on Beth and says, say something. And she doesn’t know what to say.   And he says, just just say who you are. And she said she says who she is, and she says, I’m just so scared, but we’re gonna wait it out here. 

Todd:  Mhmm. 

Craig:  And then Big 

Todd:  big explosion. Obviously, the military’s taken that out. 

Craig:  Yeah. The before the explosion, we hear the sirens. That’s right. 

Clip:  You you 

Todd:  you it’s just a feeling of impending doom. Yeah. You know they’re absolutely not gonna make it, and you’re right. Rocks start to fall down, and the camera’s obviously buried by rocks. 

Craig:  You hear them say, I love you Todd one another, and then there’s another explosion, and the camera cuts out. 

Todd:  And, it cuts out Todd what was being taped over, which is the tail end of these of Rob and Beth at Coney Island. And it’s sweet and It really is. And it’s sad, 

Craig:  you know, it’s bittersweet because presumably they’re dead. They’re all dead except for maybe Lily who may have gotten away. 

Todd:  Well, and and it has to be mentioned that something that we didn’t say say is that throughout this film Todd different regular inner irregular intervals, we’re getting, for one reason or another, a little taste of that day at Coney Island. Almost as though the whole movie, well, literally, the whole movie is was bookended by their trip to Coney Island together during this apparently really really great day in their lives. Yeah. And you get little reminders now and then in there that do tug at your heartstrings a little bit. 

Craig:  Yeah. And it’s sweet. 

Clip:  Alright. We’re almost out of town. 

Craig:  We got, like, 3 seconds to begin. 

Clip:  I had a good day. 

Craig:  And that’s where it cuts out. Okay. So what you missed, and I totally missed it too. I didn’t notice it in the theater. Looking for this. I didn’t notice it in the theater at all. But when they cut back that Coney Island scene, they’re in a Ferris wheel and when we see the beginning of the shot, he has it focused out over the water, the ocean. If you’ve got a super eagle eye, somewhere in the screen, you see something fall from the top of the frame down into the ocean.   Really? It’s tiny. It is so hard to see. So maybe my screen’s not 

Todd:  big enough. Yeah. 

Craig:  Tom’s got this 

Todd:  monster created here. You had 

Clip:  to see this in 

Todd:  the theater to catch this? I was looking for you know what? Maybe I was looking in the water, though. I was looking for a little flick of a tail or something 

Craig:  that was 

Todd:  just kicking up. 

Craig:  Now I don’t know that JJ Abrams has ever confirmed what the Cloverfield monster is, but the most prominent theory that I see online is that what was falling to the earth was some sort of failed satellite. And it crashed, into the ocean and awoke from the depths of the ocean, this monster. And then the monster slowly rose and took over. And, I don’t remember if it was the director or the creature creator. I think it was the creature creator said that he envisioned the monster as being a frightened baby, just looking for its mother. You know, no ill intent, no, maliciousness. It just is out of its element and, of course, it’s it’s causing destruction. That’s why, initially when they scripted it, the bridge was taken down by 1 of the monster’s arms, but they decided that seemed to deliver it.   That it was just an accident. It wasn’t trying to do anything. It was just out of its its its element. 

Todd:  Well, that’s sort of the Godzilla mythos. You know, you have, Godzilla special well, the original in particular was, a parable of sorts on the Todd age Right. And atomic bombing. And, of course, Japan being so badly hit, the idea is that, you awaken this beast from the bottom and you you can’t do anything about it. Right. 

Craig:  You would put yourself. 

Todd:  Exactly. So I can see that. Okay. Now, my thought would have been, well, it was an alien creature Right. Came in. And and the reason I would think that is be because of these additional spider things. It makes it seem more like an attack than just, a but, I don’t know. 

Craig:  Well well, like I said, I don’t know that Yeah. I’ve ever confirmed anything. That’s just the the most prominent theory that I’ve read. 

Todd:  Well, it is in so many films like this. As you said earlier, it is it is a nice thing that they are a little ambiguous Yeah. About where this came from and about its origins and its intent. 

Craig:  And again, that’s why I am excited to see Cloverfield, Lane, and I have I’ve tried to stay away from anything, about it, because I don’t wanna know how it’s connected. But I believe that it’s gotta be connected some way, and I’m I’m really looking forward to to seeing how. 

Todd:  Yeah. I saw the trailer and, even within the trailer, you’re not quite sure. You the trailer starts out looking like it’s one thing, and then kinda morphs into another thing. Mhmm. And there are probably multiple trailers too. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  I I haven’t I’ve intentionally stayed away from these things as well. And now that I’ve seen this movie, I kinda wanna go to the theater. 

Craig:  I prob I was I was 

Todd:  gonna be on, you know, it was kind of on my back burner, but now it might be up towards the front. 

Craig:  The thing is, it’s so ambiguous. Like, I I wanna see it too, and I’d be happy to go with you, but I don’t even know if it’s a horror film. Yeah. I in fact, I kinda don’t think it is. I think it’s more of a thriller. 

Todd:  There are hints that, I mean, even Abrams has said it’s a spiritual successor, and I’ve seen headlines on articles now that say that once again Abrams is redefining the art of promoting a movie, in a very ambiguous way, which again, casts all kinds 

Craig:  of shit. And I 

Todd:  don’t wanna read those articles. I wanna see the movie. Me too. 

Craig:  Yeah. Well, so I have the feeling you liked it. I loved it. 

Todd:  I was Did you? Oh, I did. I can’t imagine anyone going into this thing thinking it’s stupid. 

Craig:  I loved it Todd. So I was I was really excited to see what you would think. I was really thrown by my dad’s reaction to it because we usually have really similar taste. And 

Todd:  he didn’t like it. 

Craig:  He didn’t like it at all? He’s kinda silly. 

Todd:  He was one that thought 

Craig:  of it. You know, I I have a feeling maybe a lot of for him was the shaky cam. Yeah. He’s not a big fan of that. So and if you if you do get motion sickness, you better take a, Dramamine before you watch this movie because it is really shaky. I’m not bothered by that stuff, but I can see if you are. 

Todd:  There’s very little aside from it. And, you know, my wife, Bic, is very bothered by that sort of thing. She poked her head in at one point and said, oh, could could I watch this? And I said, you know, it was pg 13, and she never did come back in. But as I’m watching this, I thought, no. There’s absolutely no way she would be able to endure 5 minutes of this. Wow. She can’t watch, you know, me playing a first person video game. So Yeah.   This would definitely be not for me. 

Craig:  For her. But if if you haven’t seen it, and I can’t imagine. If you’re a horror fan, you haven’t seen this like Todd. You’re you’re some sort of anomaly, I think. But I like it. It’s a fun movie, and it is you know, it’s quick. It’s a short movie. It’s fast paced.   There are only a couple of places where it slows down, and that’s just for a moment, and then you’re right back into the action. So this one gets 2 big thumbs up for me. That was another episode. Thank you for listening. If you like what you heard, we’ve got a whole backlog, for you on, iTunes or Stitcher. You can find us on Facebook. We’d love to hear your feedback and maybe even give us some suggestions of things you’d like to see us talk about in the future. We’ll be back next week.   Until then, I’m Craig. 

Todd:  With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

If John Hughes directed horror films instead of angsty teen comedies, his first film would’ve been The Loved Ones. It’s ultra-violent, but we found a surprisingly complex message beneath all the gore.

The Loved Ones (2009)

Episode 26, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd:  Welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: I’m Craig.

Todd: And today, we went with the 2009 thriller torture porn comedy, I guess. Rom com, if you will. Maybe. The Loved Ones. Craig, you’ve been wanting me to watch this movie forever. 

Craig:  I’ve been trying to get you to watch this for a long time. You, Todd does every Halloween, he does, 30 days or 31 days, where he watches a horror movie every day for the month of October and then does write ups, about them. And so when I saw this, I, suggested this for 1 of them, but I can never get him to watch it. And then, you know, we’ve been doing this, podcast for a while now. And every time we talk about what might we do this week, I would always throw this 1 in the hat. And for one reason or another, we’d end up picking something else until 

Todd:  Finally, I said, let’s just do it, and can you get off my back? I don’t wanna hear about the loved ones anymore. 

Craig:  So we so we finally did it, and here it is. 

Todd:  Well, I have to say, I think it was a pretty good choice. I enjoyed this movie more than I thought I would. Actually, I thought it was a deeper movie than I was expecting. 

Craig:  You know, me too. And the funny thing is I’ve seen this before, but just the once, and that’s been quite a while ago. I mean, maybe 2 or 3 years ago, and I had kind of forgotten some of the more subtle plot points. And you don’t really realize until kind of the last half hour that there’s a little bit more going on underneath the surface than just straight up torture porn, which you get a lot of in this movie. Correct. 

Todd:  And it’s interesting because that dawns on you probably about halfway through, doesn’t it? Or maybe 3 quarters 

Clip:  of the 

Craig:  way through. Yeah. 

Todd:  You realize, oh, yeah. Why in the world are we juxtaposing these horrible scenes of torture with these rather serene scenes of the rest of the family, and then these odd humorous, but also kind of sad scenes of this other couple at the dance. Right. And you go, oh, there’s a point to be made here. Right. 

Craig:  And there’s a there’s a connection. I mean and but the connection isn’t revealed until later on. And even just watching at this time, I had forgotten. I had been asking myself, well, there’s the there’s a central story, but then there’s kind of this other, story about these 2 kids who go off, to the school dance, and it keeps cutting back to them. And at first, you think it’s just for comedy. Mhmm. And then things start to get not necessarily darker, but a little more serious until finally you do realize that that that side plot is connected to the main plot. And, then the you kind of feel bad for laughing.   You know? It’s it’s kinda it’s sad. 

Todd:  It is. Well, the the story starts out with a guy kid named Brent Yeah. Driving along with his dad in the car. He’s driving. He probably is 16 years Todd. Just got his license. This is an Australian film, by the way, so it takes place in Australia. And there’s a guy in the middle of the road who’s kinda cut up and gross, and Brent and his dad really aren’t paying attention and see this guy a little too late, and Brent swerves to miss him.   Comes back around, basically wraps his car around a tree. And the next time we see Brent 6 months later, he’s a totally different person. 

Craig:  Yeah. In the beginning, in that car scene, it’s really kind of a pleasant, you know, light conversation between father and son, and then there’s this this you can tell. I mean, you don’t see really the aftermath aside from the exterior of the car, but it was a terrible accident. And it cuts to 6 months later, and the kind of I mean, he always kinda had a grungy look with, like, the longer hair or whatever. He listens to heavy metal music, which his dad was kinda ribbing him about. But when we cut to 6 months later, we cut to them to him, Brent, in his high school, and he just looks worn down. Yeah. More you know, he’s pale.   He disheveled. So, obviously, in that 6 months, he’s recuperated from whatever injuries he may have sustained in the car accident, but something’s wrong. 

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. He has a friend. I never caught his friend’s name. 

Craig:  Man. Jamie. Jamie was the friend’s name. 

Todd:  Jamie’s friend, is there. Jamie turns out to be it’s interesting. We get this Jamie character in here, and he approaches Brent, and they just have a quick little exchange. 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And this girl that Jamie’s never seen before or something come maybe comes walking down the hall, and she’s totally gawked out. Right. All blacks, long black hair, pale. Ian herself, you know, goes to her locker and, Brent decides to chase after her. It’s it’s like that scene in, you know, the beginning of some eighties high school, you know, sex comedy. 

Craig:  Oh, yeah. It’s exactly like that. Exactly like that. 

Todd:  The whole movie actually has parallels, doesn’t it, to, like, Pretty in Pink or something like that? 

Clip:  Absolutely. 

Todd:  And he goes to chase after her. 

Clip:  Yes. She said yes. 

Craig:  So we’re 

Todd:  going to the dance. Right. In the meantime, suddenly, just creepily, this girl pops up around the corner, towards Brent, and her name is Lola. 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And she’s spacey? I don’t know. 

Craig:  I mean, she’s a little mousy. She she seems shy. I mean, the the 1st girl that we talked about, her name was Mia, the goth girl. She’s, you know, goth, but if you’re into that, very beautiful girl. 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And then this girl comes around, and and she seems a little bit more, I don’t know, down home. I mean, she she seems like she would be the quiet girl at school. She’s in some kind of, like, cute pink sweater, like, maybe even a little too cute, like, a little bit young for her. 

Todd:  And her Parents are, like, rolled up to her knees. Her jeans are rolled 

Craig:  up to her knees. And her hair is a little mousy and a little disheveled, and, she approaches him in very, very timidly. 

Clip:  Will you go to the dance with me? Sorry, Oliver. I’m done with Holly. 

Craig:  I mean, it seems like she’s tried to muster up her courage to ask. And he’s nice. He says, I’m sorry, Lola, but I’m going with Holly. He’s got a girlfriend, Holly. And then he turns around and walks away, and she just kind of watches him walk away. And he goes outside, and Holly is waiting for him. And she, again, you know, a girl that you would have gone to high school with, pretty, but not like actress, movie star pretty. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And, he tells her, somebody else asked me Todd dance, and she says, well, who was it? But he won’t tell. And then they go off together. She’s just gotten her license, and so, they go off together and start making out in the car. And as the make out session progresses, and it’s getting pretty hot and heavy, she kinda keeps teasing him and asking, you know, who is it? Who is it? Who is it? But he won’t tell. And then they get really hot and heavy. You know? They they’re getting down. 

Todd:  The the windows are steaming 

Craig:  up. Yeah. We see outside the window, Lola, just standing and watching them. I mean, you know, like, right 

Todd:  outside the hallway. Comical 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Todd:  Way, but it’s also extremely creepy. Right. Right. And at the same time, the the filmmakers teasing us as well. She notices that he has cuts all over his leg. 

Craig:  When he takes off it I couldn’t tell if it was his leg or maybe it was his his abdomen or something like that. Could’ve been. Yeah. When he takes off his shirt, I think, is when you see that he’s clearly got cutting scars, and he’s wearing a razor blade around his neck, on a chain. And it seems like she kinda must know about it. It seems like she’s a little bothered by it, but it’s not a shock to her. So she must know this has been going on. And then she takes him home.   She says, as he’s getting out, I love you. He kisses her, and then she says, I love you. And he turns back to her and doesn’t say it, but gives her another kiss and gets out. And then he tells her he says it was Lola. It was Lola Stone. And she kinda teased, and he says, well, maybe you should go with 

Todd:  if her boyfriend’s an emotional retard. 

Craig:  Right. He says. You’re right. Really sensitive. 

Todd:  He’s calling it’s, it’s interesting. He’s obviously and then when he comes inside and his mother is just just down Yeah. And just really spaced out, honestly, not really there. And you realize that her his dad didn’t survive the car Craig, and what we’re seeing is a damaged family. Right. He is cutting himself. He’s I guess, he’s listening to this hard rock music all the time. Did did you do a really good job with the music in this film? Yeah.   Yeah. I 

Craig:  didn’t recognize any of it, but I imagine it’s probably popular Australian artist would be my guess. It’s good music, and they do use it to affect really well. 

Todd:  It really there’s this is another one of those films where there’s hardly a moment that’s not underscored, but it’s not always a score. It’s sometimes pop songs or rock songs. And the way that it jumps between these moments of silence and these moments of him, either lots of times, it’s because the music’s in the car playing or because he has his headphones on. There’s an interesting moment where he’s in his room. It’s just and his mom comes in. And when she does, he pulls his headphones out and the music stops for us. 

Craig:  Right. And there’ll be other moments where it’ll be a really quiet moment, and then there’ll be a really jarringly loud music cue, that kinda takes you by surprise and introduces a new tone or a new scene or whatever. Yeah. I thought it was I thought it was good. 

Todd:  I feel it in a way it kinda puts us in this emotional state of these characters. I mean, not only are they teenagers and their emotions are flying back and forth all the time, but they’re he’s also going through a lot and he’s got a lot to deal with from day to day. He’s gotta go come home and be kinda nice to his mom. He’s gotta be there for his girlfriend. He has to deal with his dad’s death 

Clip:  Right. 

Todd:  And he’s having a hard time with that, and so he’s doing things like cutting himself. He’s doing things like 

Craig:  Smoking weed. 

Todd:  Smoking weed when he was really critical of his dad firing up a cigarette. Right. You know? Those changes are pretty obvious, but they’re very realistic. Yeah. And I felt like the director did a great job of getting us inside that mindset. I really felt what he was feeling in many in many ways. 

Craig:  Well, and I you know, we’re a couple of oldies, but, you know, it it felt very young. You know, it felt realistic. Like, when you are a teenager, and I you know, music is important in everybody’s lives. But, really, when you’re a teenager, you really kind of the music you listen to is kind of your niche, kind of your thing. 

Todd:  That’s right. 

Craig:  And and you get a sense of that, and you get a sense of the characterization, based on the music too. And, really, the style, I don’t know much about this director other than that he hadn’t really done much before this except shorts. 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Craig:  I 

Todd:  think he was fresh out of film school 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Todd:  More or less. 

Craig:  And it kind of has I mean, it’s got a young vibe to it, and it’s almost got, like, I don’t wanna say exactly music video vibe, but there’s something about that. I mean, the music feels kind of integral to the storytelling. 

Todd:  Yeah. Well, the muse the visuals parallel the music the the music a lot. Yeah. It’s not just underscoring something, but it’s it’s part and parcel of the picture. I’m thinking specifically, maybe you are too of the scene where then he ends up leaving the house and he goes and starts rock climbing. Mhmm. And he’s climbing, and the music is really quite interesting there. And then he gets to a certain point, and he puts his hand on the ledge, and he leans back, and he closes his eyes, and you do wonder, is he gonna kill himself? Is he thinking that he’s gonna be just 1 hand grasp away from ending his own pain? 

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, he’s upset because his mom comes in to talk to him about the dance, and she’s concerned about the fact that, Holly is going to be driving them. 

Clip:  Holly’s picking me up. She doesn’t even have a license. She got it today. I’ll give you money for a cab. What’s the difference? It’s still a car. I’m still in a car. But they are experienced. And I wasn’t so dad died? 

Craig:  So you get the sense that, you know, he’s really struggling with it. He kind of feels either responsible or feels that his mom kind of holds him responsible. Which again, that would be you know, realistically, that would be a really difficult dynamic. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. 

Craig:  I mean, it’s it’s a tragic loss, and you would have feelings of anger and and blame and guilt and and all of those things. 

Todd:  And that’s what we all go through. A lot of you know, whenever you have a loss or wherever you do something or or involved in some way, in some accident, or something that’s really bad, not only are you questioning yourself, but you’re also questioning how other people are seeing you. Right. Right? Do they blame me? Do they, whatever. And so it’s just a doubling and tripling and quadrupling down of guilt and emotions from all directions. Absolutely. And that’s what this kid’s going through, and you totally get that sense with this I thought the film did a fantastic job of really hammering that home without your dumb tropes, without them getting in some kind of ridiculous argument Right. Storming out of the house or something.   It took its time and when you say it was kinda like a music video, I felt like, yeah. It played like a music video where the dialogue isn’t usually even there. Right. But the story is told through the images with the music behind it, and you just get this sense and this feeling. 

Craig:  Absolutely. And then as he’s going to that cliff face, that he climbs, again, it’s very mute you know, he’s kind of walking in slow motion to this hard music, and, you know, the the vibe is kind of this angry rock. And he he takes the, razor blade off of his neck. And as he’s walking, he just squeezes both hands into fists, and the blood is just running down his arm. And it’s a really interesting visual. And then, absolutely, you know, he gets to the rock face, and you have that scene. He’s you’ve got his dog with him, but he’s climbing. And, of course, you know, it’s not like a safe climb with, like, you know, ropes and whatnot. 

Todd:  It’s just angry. I’m just like, he’s been there before. He’s done it many times. Right. He’s he’s definitely, trying to get out some steam 

Craig:  as well. And it’s almost maybe kind of self destructive. Like, we’re wondering, is he gonna jump? Is he gonna fall? And you kinda get the sense, you know, he’s he’s climbing well, but kind of carelessly almost like I don’t know. Not that he wants to fall, but if he did, you know, so what? And that scene, like like you said, where he kind of hangs back, it really I felt like gave you a good idea of the state of mind that he was in, and it’s a dark state of mind. Eventually, his foot slips, and he grabs onto the rock. And so He’s not ready to die yet. Exactly. And it’s communicated well. 

Todd:  It is. Right? 

Craig:  And so he climbs up there, and he’s smoking a bowl, and, he’s got his earbuds in. His mom’s worried about him. She’s trying to call. He’s not answering. And then we see and kind of muffled through the music, hear his dog barking at something and see the dog barking at something. And then the dog stops barking, and then we see this guy, this very ominous looking guy coming up behind him. And we can’t see the guy’s face, but, you know, it’s kind of that classic. He’s, like, in workman’s pants and work boots.   You know with Craig or something. Exactly. You you know it’s not gonna be good. 

Todd:  And that was a cool scene too, I thought. The framing, the composition in some of these shots where you get this guy coming up behind him and it’s very ominous, and the kid’s obviously gonna get it somehow. But what you see in a slightly off focus manner in the corner of the frame is he pulls out almost a rag and he fiddles with it in his hand for a second. It just ups the tension and you know what’s coming. Comes over behind him and grabs him, you know, with that rag, knocks him out. There must 

Craig:  have been some coral form 

Todd:  or something Right. And drags him away. In the meantime, we are flipping back to his friend Yeah. Who is going to pick up this girl, and it’s funny again. It and again, it’s it’s out of these films. He’s he’s just finishing up smoking a doobie real quick, kinda puts it out, starts spraying a cologne and aftershave all over himself. 

Craig:  Like the the I think it was actually, like, aerosol deodorant. Yeah. It was he sprayed it all over. 

Todd:  And he’s got banaca. He’s, like, squirting in his mouth and all this stuff. And then alright. He looks in the mirror and he goes, I’m a rock star. Yeah. And and he’s been in the car across the street from this girl, Mia, who he’s going to pick up. And what comes next is a very odd scene. It’s Todd, and it’s awkward, and it’s funny, but it’s also rather sad.   Where Mia comes storming out of the house before he can even get to the door, and he’s dressed in a, well, kind of half nice way. 

Craig:  Well, he’s got one of those tuxedo T shirts on. He’s got, like, a like a, like, a beige, like, I don’t know, like, smoker’s jacket or or something like that on. 

Todd:  And and some roses. Yeah. So it’s like it’s really quite sweet. I thought, oh, this cute kid. You know? Oh, you 

Craig:  can tell he’s super psyched to be going out with this hot girl. 

Todd:  Yeah. And she comes towards him and she’s in all black and she’s looking pretty good, but you know, she wants to get she’s let’s just go. And she grabs the roses that kinda stops for a minute, and there’s just this moment where you think maybe she’s never really received roses before. Right. She doesn’t really know how to react. You worry that she’s gonna laugh at him. Right. But then you get the sense that she doesn’t even know what to make of it.   Yeah. Yeah. And it’s just a brief, you know, few seconds, but so much is communicated in those few seconds. 

Craig:  And it’s funny. You said it’s it’s kinda sad. It is, but not until you know the context later. You know? Here, it still feels very much like a teen comedy where here come you know, she’s kind of the stereotypical goth girl. You know? She, looks very sullen. You know? She doesn’t smile. And her parents come out and wanna take pictures, And her dad is a cop. He’s in, in uniform.   And she goes along with it, but you can tell, like, come on. Seriously. Just do it and get it over with. And then they go off to the dance together. 

Todd:  But even there, I thought with her parents and the way that they true acted and reacted, it was as though they were beside themselves, you know? Yeah. There’s not much spoken. The dad kinda looks at kid. He doesn’t rib him or doesn’t do anything. He almost gives him looks like good luck with my daughter tonight. Right. But not in a comical way, but almost in a I really don’t know what’s gonna happen. But 

Craig:  Yeah. But not not comical, but also not unrealistic. No. Not at all. That oftentimes, there is that kind of big disconnect between kids, especially kids if they’re struggling with anything. 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And that’s kind of the the sense that you get that they kinda don’t know what to do with her 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Or for her maybe. 

Todd:  Yeah. And and her dad being a cop and introducing that element right then and there really nails that home a little bit. I don’t know. You just get that sense with a a family where the dad’s a cop. Mhmm. He’s got this young beautiful daughter who’s rebelling. 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And but he is the face of authority. Right. You can just imagine in your head in those few minutes while she’s standing out there interacting them what her life must be like at home. 

Craig:  Right. But the parents, you know, they they come across as nice and warm. You know? It seems like they really wanna see her off. It’s not like we watched Excision a few weeks ago where there was kind of a similar kind of goth dark girl, but you got why she was messed up because her mom was a beast. 

Clip:  You know, 

Craig:  you don’t get that feeling here. 

Todd:  Not at all. And you don’t get that feeling from anybody, really. Yeah. They’re all really real people. 

Craig:  Yeah. And and and then point. Oh, gosh. Things get so crazy in a little bit. 

Todd:  They sure do. 

Craig:  Up to this point, it seems, you know, the people we’ve met seem relatively normal. The next thing we see, I believe, is, the car that presumably has Brent in it, he’s been inducted in, stops at a chicken place, and then we see it driving kind of down a dirt road. It seems like it’s kinda going out of town on the outskirts of town, drives by a, roadkill, like a possum or something on the road. But as soon as it drives by, stops and then backs up, and the car door opens, and you see the some man’s hand pull the roadkill into the car. 

Todd:  It’s really funny, and odd at the same time. 

Craig:  Right? Well and then you’re thinking this could be very typical. You know? This could just be your typical crazy slasher 

Clip:  Yes. 

Craig:  Guy. Yes. Texas chainsaw kinda deal. 

Todd:  They’re definitely setting it up for that piece by piece, bit by bit. 

Craig:  And then we cut to this really odd scene where there’s this girly kind of song playing in the background. It reminded me again. I’m showing my age, but it reminded me, like, early Juliana Hat feel kind of thing, where it’s, you know, this kind of melodic pretty girl singing, am I not pretty enough? And, a little bit of angst in there, but but soft, you know, much softer than anything we’ve seen before. And we’re cutting to these images that at first seemed like typical things that you would see in a girl’s bedroom, and it’s all really close-up. And you see some dolls and things. But as this it’s a very, very short scene. But as it goes on, the more that you see, like, these dolls are positioned in, like, really sexually explicit positions, and some of them have been kind of mutilated Todd I don’t even know how to describe it, but you something’s weird. Yeah.   It’s it’s weird. And then is that when we see that it’s Lola in her room? Lola’s flipping through her Scrapbook. 

Todd:  Scrapbook there, and she has pasted in Brent’s picture Right. With a heart over it and a little red dot sort of on his forehead, and dad comes into the room. And this is when we first we know that this is the guy who’s been stopping and getting the chicken and all that. Right. And it is a very odd exchange between them. 

Craig:  Well, yeah, the whole thing’s odd. I mean, I think that she hears him come home and she meets him outside, and he opens the trunk. And we know exactly what’s going 

Todd:  on. Right. Yeah. 

Craig:  We don’t know if she I don’t know. I wasn’t expecting her to be appalled or anything, but you get you know right away that she’s in on it. 

Clip:  He looks dead. I didn’t use that much. You’ve ruined it. There it is. Let me hear. 

Craig:  Like, dang it, dad. Like, I just asked you one thing, and you’ve ruined it. Like, it’s just this petulant thing. Funny. 

Todd:  Yeah. But is it before that, though, when he presents her with the dress? 

Craig:  I think it’s right before. I think they get him inside. I think. I don’t know. I could be getting the sequencing messed up. But, she’s in her room, and the dad comes in and he pulls out from behind his back this big pink bag. And she you know, it looks very much if if we didn’t know the context, at first, it would seem like a very sweet moment between father and and daughter. 

Todd:  It’s very domestic scene in 

Craig:  the world. Pretty in pink in Zach, like you mentioned. It’s almost exactly. 

Todd:  Yeah. She opens it up, and she’s thrilled, and she’s happy, and she sees it. And, the dad starts to leave the room, and she says, no. No. No. Wait. Tell me how it looks on. 

Craig:  Yeah. It’s a dress a dress and shoes. 

Todd:  And so she starts to strip down to her underwear, and the dad is standing there watching and leering a bit. 

Craig:  Well, it’s like he It’s wants to look away. 

Todd:  At the same time, he doesn’t want Todd, and she seems to be inviting it, but not overtly. 

Craig:  Right. And and the camera, like, I I guess, it’s not exactly a point of view shot, but we’re kind of seeing what he sees 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Craig:  As he’s seeing it. And, like, it’s kind of a slow pan up her body. I mean, she’s not indecent. It’s not anything that, you know, like a 2 piece bathing suit wouldn’t cover. She’s in simple pink panties and a a Todd, but the way that the camera slowly pans up and it’s kinda slow motion as her dress kinda comes up over her curves, you get there’s a weird dynamic going on in this family. 

Todd:  And that is to say the very freaking east. That eat the half. Oh, man. But you’re right. The Texas chainsaw massacre all the way. This this movie does pull from a lot of different films and and so many different genres. It’s, I don’t know. I mean, there’s there’s a bunch of stuff that happens. 

Clip:  She 

Craig:  Well, there’s and there’s a lot of cutting back and forth. Like, I feel like it during this interlude, we then cut back to Jamie and Mia who are now in the parking lot. Yeah. And this is your scene. Again, in a film like Pretty in Pink, this is this is what happens. You’re cutting between these different 

Clip:  couples who are having 

Todd:  their different experiences at the dance. 

Clip:  Girlfriend is there, Holly, 

Todd:  and the guy girlfriend is there, Holly, and the guy’s not showing up. It’s that whole he stood me up kinda thing, and she doesn’t know what to do, and the mother doesn’t know where he is. And so And the 

Craig:  mom has gone out and looked for him, but he what she obviously knew that cliff was like his place or whatever, but he’s not there. 

Todd:  The the dog shows up and the dog’s been stabbed, and so they know that there’s a problem, yet they are paralyzed. They can’t really do anything. And so to my mind anyway, it still devolves into this poor girl who doesn’t get to go to the dance Yeah. Kind of situation. Right. You know? In the meantime, this guy and, Mia what was his name again? Jamie. Jamie and Mia are in the car, and this is what would normally be. This is the wild girl who’s gonna take this naive excited guy, for a ride and show him a really good time, but it doesn’t quite end up like that. 

Craig:  No. And it’s already, you kinda start to see the humor kind of sapping out. I mean, there’s still a little bit, like, he’s awkward and uncomfortable. He tries to get her to go in the dance, and she just sits in the car. So they end up just sitting in the car smoking and drinking and Music going. Right. And it’s hard to kinda talk about the the movie in sequence because it cuts back and forth so much. After we see that, then we cut back to well, we get, like, one of those you’ve seen it in movies all the time when somebody wakes up and you kind of get the opening eye shot, and and we get that the eyes open.   We’re seeing from behind the eyes as they open. And, sitting at a table across from our perspective is the guy, the guy that was the abductor. And he’s just sitting there very oddly and creepily kinda like the weird grin on his face. There’s a a mirror ball, so the lights are spinning. It seems like there’s decorations, like, hung around, a big sign that says end of school dance. And then I loved this shot where he’s looking straight at the guy, and Lola just leans into frame looking at him and smiling. And she’s all made up, and she’s got her hair I mean, her hair is still down, but it’s, you know, nicely combed, and she’s got her pretty pink dress on. And it’s just the creepiest thing. 

Todd:  And she’s a cute girl. 

Craig:  She is. Yeah. 

Todd:  But, woah. They’ve basically made their home up into the evil version of the 

Craig:  school dicks. And right away I mean, this things there’s no slow build to the brutality of this. Things get brutal right away. Sitting on the table is some sort of bottle of liquid, and the dad he he’s never given a name, I don’t think. She calls him daddy. That’s all Yeah. We know. He hands her the bottle and a syringe, and she sucks this blue liquid up out of the bottle into the syringe.   And the dad goes back behind Brent and holds on to him. And she takes whatever is in there. I assume some, like, cleaning solvents 

Todd:  or something. Like, some domestic cleaning solution. They pulled right out of that. And she 

Craig:  stabs it into his neck and injects the whole thing, and he’s screaming, but immediately, the scream becomes muffled and scratchy, and they back away from him. And, again, in just like the creepiest shot, we can’t hear you, and they’re laughing. And, oh my gosh, it’s so creepy. So immediately, they disable his voice so that for the rest of the movie, he can’t talk or or scream or anything, and then it just gets bat shit crazy from there. 

Todd:  It so does. And I’m so glad that we cut back to other stuff going on because I don’t know if I could sit there and take, you know, another martyrs like situation where you’re just watching this person just get get hurt. 

Craig:  It is tough. It is tough to watch. You’re absolutely right. It’s nice that they give you little breaks because even when the movie was over, we were both just kinda sitting here. I said, dang. That’s exhausting. It is. It’s right. 

Todd:  Oh, man. Well, anyway, she, she’s doing a bunch of stuff to him. She’s messing with him. He says he needs to pee, and so she’s like, alright, and unzips his pants. 

Clip:  Bring the hammer, daddy. I killed your dog with this and a nail. You’ve got 10 seconds to go. Todd daddy’s gonna nail it to the chair. 

Todd:  At some point, he does manage to escape. 

Craig:  Oh, he’s got that razor around 

Todd:  his neck. He the razor around his neck, and I guess it falls down. 

Craig:  Manage to get a hold of it? I don’t remember. Oh, you know what? I I think the first time, he unties it. I think he gets it untied the 1st time. Oh. And then, you know, and that’s after she’s done all kinds of weird stuff to him. Like, they’re sitting there eating chicken, like Oh, yeah. Or, like, if nothing’s going on. 

Todd:  Finger licking good, and she’s shoving it in his face, and he won’t respond. 

Craig:  And she and then she tries to force him to, like, suck on her finger. And meanwhile, the dad is standing by threateningly with a hammer. And, like 

Todd:  He seems to be getting a little jealous about 

Clip:  it too. 

Todd:  There’s a really interesting sexual overtones going on here. 

Craig:  And there’s also a mom apparently, sitting there. They they call her bright eyes. And, she appear she’s awake, but she appears to be catatonic. And very ominously, she’s got a big hole in her forehead or or Yeah. The scars, the the aftermath of 

Clip:  a hole in her head. Oh, and you know things are not gonna go well. 

Craig:  But, yeah, they do all that weird finger sucky stuff, and it does seem like the dad’s kind of, getting a little bit jealous. But, eventually, he’s able to he gets his hands free, And then in some moment where they’re distracted or something, he rears up his feet, on the chair and just Kicks her away. Right. Kicks her, you know, down into the table. And he’s able to get up and, his feet are still bound, but he hops away. He gets outside. The dad chases him outside, but can’t find him. 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Craig:  So I guess the dad’s gonna get in the car to try to go look for him. 

Todd:  That’s what it seems like, and this kid was under the car. Right. 

Clip:  He was 

Todd:  Manages to get all of his his, restraints off. 

Craig:  He he took the thing off around his neck. Yeah. 

Todd:  But, unfortunately, the dad sees him as he pulls away and chases him with the car. I thought that was an interesting parallel with him chasing him with the car, the car itself being a point of fear and sadness for this kid, and we get that POV shot of the dad behind the wheel, looks like he’s almost gonna ram into him, but chases him up a tree instead. They come out and, the girl comes out and he’s up in the tree, and and just like he’s an animal in the tree, they’re starting to throw rocks at him, and she’s really getting off on it. 

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, that’s what makes it so sick. And I have to say, I don’t know much about this actress. I don’t even have her name written down, but she plays this so well. I mean, she is messed up. 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Craig:  She is a psycho. She is an excellent movie psychopath. 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Craig:  I mean, I guess, you know, there’s nothing redeem you know, we talked before about villains having kind of shades of humanity and, you know, shades of gray and whatnot. No. Not here. She is just psycho. 

Todd:  Yeah. And you do kinda wonder how she got that way or if she just always been that way or if it was some influence in the family Because I think once they get him back, they tie him back up. And the next scene Well. Well, the yeah. They nail his feet into the floor, 

Craig:  first of all. Steel of nails would not even Yeah. That would have been breathable. I mean, they take these huge steel knives and and nail his feet into the floor. And she starts showing him a book. Right. 

Todd:  And it’s her scrapbook, and it’s her scrapbook essentially of all the people she’s done this to before. 

Craig:  And it seems like it’s quite a few. 

Todd:  And it goes back to when she was a little girl. Right. Because you’re seeing an old, it’s a shot of her as a little girl next to this, you know, picture, but then the next shot is of 1 of the victims with their, you know, a big heart carved in their chest Mhmm. And another hole in their head, and there she is as a little girl posed to her. 

Craig:  8 or 9 or something like that. 

Todd:  And you’re like, oh, man. This goes back for a ways. 

Craig:  And that raises all kinds of questions. Exactly. It does. And that’s kinda what I wondered. Now my thought was is just that she is literally so psychotic that even from the time that she was a young girl, she has been able she’s been in charge. I think so. She’s been able to manipulate her father. I don’t know if the mother maybe had some objection at some point, and that’s why she ends up in the state that she’s in. 

Todd:  I thought maybe the mother was one of their 1st victims perhaps 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Todd:  For that reason. 

Craig:  Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. Get her out of the way so then Lola has even more control, but she clearly has her dad under her thumb, obviously. 

Todd:  But, you know, keep the family unit together. Don’t destroy mom like you destroy everybody else. They’re all still there. You know, that’s part of the comedy of this, I think, is that they’re a family. 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Todd:  And and all of these families in this movie are damaged in some way. They’re all messed up. They’re all dealing with things. This is just the most extreme one. 

Craig:  Well and see there’s so much weird, oh, so such weird psychology going on between them because there’s obviously tension between the mom well, you can’t tell if there’s tension from her because she’s catatonic. But Lola will say things to the dad like, who’s prettier, me or bright eyes? Or who looks better, me or bright eyes? And then he’s reluctant to say much of it. He’s, well, you you both look nice. And she takes moments to kind of covertly torture. Sometimes covertly, sometimes not even so covertly to torture bright eyes. So, just the just the dynamic is real and it makes you really uncomfortable Yeah. She says, and this is the one that got away. And Brent flashes he sees the photograph, and then he flashes back, and that’s kinda where he puts 22 together and realizes that that guy that he had seen in the road that he had had to swerve to miss, that was one of her victims Yeah.   And apparently, the only one who had gotten away. And we don’t know what happened to him. All Lola says is he’s probably dead by now. 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Craig:  But, yeah, like you said, it’s established. They’ve been doing this for a while. And not only have they been doing it for a while, but they’ve got a routine. Mhmm. And it’s, it’s wild. 

Todd:  I think when you talk about her mother, did you notice the parallels between her mother and his mother? 

Craig:  Yeah. A little bit. I mean, 

Todd:  yeah. Felt like her mom being in that catatonic state not very far off from his mother. True. Who is completely castrated through this whole film. Yeah. All she does is stare out windows. She doesn’t really know what to do. When Holly comes back to the house, she’s the one who’s taking charge and making phone calls and trying to put 2 and 2 together to find Brent, whereas the mother almost seems helpless, just sort of stumbling around in a way.   She even has that same sewn look in her face. The actresses even looked very similar. 

Craig:  They did. You’re right. I don’t 

Todd:  think that was a coincidence, you know. Probably not. I think that there were some parallels there as well as, you know, when we go back to the other couple, this is the kind of the stuff that you get out of sweet, sweet looking Lola, is what you would have expected to get out of Mia, the absolutely goth girl. But it turns out that Mia has a different way of dealing with her pain in her life and that is she just, you know, goes inward and she’s doing all this drinking and stuff. We flashback to that scene where finally, I’m never gonna get his name. Jamie. 

Craig:  Jamie. Jamie. We’re finally I’m writing it down for my Man, before you gosh. You really had your thinking cap on, dude. I I hadn’t made all those parallels. Now you’re saying all that stuff. I’m like, yeah. That’s right.   Good on you. 

Todd:  We get back there where Jamie and, and Mia are in the car, and he’s like, let’s go. Let’s go into the dance, you know, and she opens the door. It just falls out. She’s so out of it, but she’s out of it emotionally too. You know? Not just because they’ve been smoking, not just because they’ve been drinking, and Jamie’s in way over his head. 

Clip:  Oh, yeah. 

Todd:  And you can tell this is not the night he was expecting. This is not the fun time he was expecting. 

Craig:  Well, he’s trying to roll with it. 

Todd:  He is. Bless his heart. He really is, and he’s trying just very much in the same way, you know, that, like, Holly is has a similar way of dealing with Brent. She doesn’t get judgmental. She doesn’t jump into him or lay onto him, but she displays an extraordinary amount of patience and understanding. 

Craig:  Well, yep. It but with Jamie and Mia still, I mean, I feel like the director and the filmmakers almost were kind of tricking me because it still feels very much like that can’t hardly or not can’t hardly wait. What’s the American pie kind of thing Uh-huh. 

Clip:  Where all 

Craig:  of a sudden, now you’ve got this kinda not nerdy, but, you know, not the popular looking guy 

Todd:  Yes. 

Craig:  Who now is on this date with this hot girl, and she’s gotten wasted. And so now he’s got this hot wasted girl on his hands, and while at the same time, he kinda has to take care of her and drag her around. Like, he’s proud to be seen, you know, at the dance. This girl. Uh-huh. And, as they’re as they’re slow dancing, it’s hilarious because everybody else in the dance is totally doing that, like, keep the ruler between you or whatever. And she is virtually just passed out draped on him, and And everybody’s looking at him, and he’s kinda looking around going, yeah. 

Todd:  And then she reaches her hand down to his crotch and starts to massage it 

Clip:  or Yeah. 

Todd:  And do something. I I don’t know. Was she trying to unzip his pants and stuff too right there? 

Craig:  Messing around. Yeah. 

Todd:  And and that was hilarious because everybody else starts look around and looking at him. He looks to another guy, another guy kinda winks at him, like, yeah, dude. But other people are just sort of horrified, and he is a bit uncomfortable about it as well. You know? He But 

Craig:  it’s still kinda playing for funny until she kinda looks up and sees the people watching and says What are you looking at? What are you looking at? And and it it then it’s not so funny. And you there you you kinda get that kinda dark undertone, and then it kinda brings it right back to the humor where the principal or a teacher, whoever taps him on the shoulder, does if you wanna do that kind of thing, take it somewhere else. Very typical of those high school kind of movies, but an interesting juxtaposition leading to something unexpected that I really didn’t see coming. Meanwhile, we’re 

Todd:  back in this horrible house. 

Craig:  And, again, it’s just torture after torture. I mean, I can’t even remember. At one point, she says, I’m ready to draw on him now. And, fortunately, thank Todd, we didn’t actually see her doing this, but we see when it cuts to the after shot, the 1st shot we see is just her holding up a fork, a bloody fork. She is carved into this guy with a dinner fork. You know? Not even not like a knife would be like, oh, thank you for the knife. Yeah. She’s carved this big heart in his chest, 

Todd:  and I think l s, Lola Stone 

Clip:  on it. 

Craig:  Yeah. Or maybe it was her initial and his. I don’t know. I couldn’t tell. It was very bloody. Yeah. And then they throw salt on his wounds. 

Todd:  That that is almost just funny right there. Actually, that reminds me, did you ever see Waxworks, or Waxworks 2 

Craig:  I think so. 

Todd:  Touch of the one where there’s this humorous scene with Bruce Campbell, and he’s down in the torture chamber and half of his body’s gone. And then there’s there’s this fight going on in front of him, and the big thing of assault gets thrown and then, of course, it hits him, and this is the other person that hits him and he’s just getting this is a this just reminded me so much of that where, okay, this is it’s horrible, but it’s also almost so over the top that it’s it’s a little goofy. 

Craig:  But I can see what you mean. But painful. That’s the thing. It just had me squirming in my in my seat. I mean, because he can’t scream, so he has to express this terrible pain through his acting, and he does a really good job. Yeah. I mean, you can really see it in his face. He’s sweating.   His eyes are kind of glossed over. I mean, I don’t even know. I couldn’t take that. I would have been passed out 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. 

Craig:  Hours ago. Yeah. But it’s almost like he doesn’t wanna give her the satisfaction. Yes. At one point, she I think it’s when the dad is hammering the knives into his feet. She sits straddling him on his lap saying Craig, cry, and she gets really adamant about it. He just refuses. 

Clip:  He 

Craig:  just stares at her. 

Todd:  He’s a really strong person. Yeah. You know, it’s interesting that he see has seemed so neutered up to this point and so ready to die. The resolve that comes into him now that he’s faced with true and real pain. Right. Not the emotional pain of something that happened 6 months ago. And I feel like that’s part of his character arc in this I think so. Is that faced with this now, this this is going to be the cure.   You know? Right. This is going to thrust his life into perspective, essentially. 

Craig:  At some point, they they get him stood up, and they kinda do the dance thing where, again, it’s her Saffy song, and the dad is standing, like, over them sprinkling glitter on them. Of course, they can’t really move because he’s nailed to the floor, and he’s wincing in pain as she kinda sways him back and forth. She tells him 

Clip:  When I find my prince, this is the song we’re gonna dance to at my wedding. You’re just another Strong. 

Craig:  And then she reaches her hand up to her dad and says, daddy, come come dance 

Clip:  with me. 

Craig:  And it’s almost like it seems like he’s slightly reluctant, but it’s almost a balance of reluctance and desire. Mhmm. 

Clip:  Does 

Craig:  that make sense? Yeah. And, so they go to dance, and, again, it’s just that 

Todd:  She calls him his prince, and there’s a moment where they’re leaning in to kiss. Mhmm. And just before that happens, Brent has sat back down again. Brent’s been trying to get back to his, to his razor. 

Craig:  I guess he has his pocket. Yeah. But he pulled it out of his pocket and then dropped 

Clip:  it on the 

Todd:  chair. And that interrupts their their kiss, and they turn and look to him. Again, a very dark, comedic, black version of one of these scenes from one of those films where they’re the 2 true loves are about to kiss, and then they get interrupted. Right. But a much more sick and twisted version of that. And and then we flip back to to the girl, to Jamie and Mia. Mhmm. And they’re doing it in the back of the oh, she just gets all you know, she gives him what he wants basically.   It’s like, do me. And so they Todd doing it. There’s a knock on the on the door, and, he kinda reaches over, and he kind of wipes the steam off the window. And then he, like, rolls the window down, and this guy says, when I said to get out of here, I meant get off school grass. Yeah. Like, oh, they were still, like, in the parking lot. Something is still 

Craig:  the school. It was 

Todd:  and that was pretty funny. 

Craig:  And I don’t really think that this is the correct sequence, but he takes her home. Yeah. Jamie takes Mia home, and, you know, she’s conscious, but just kinda barely. Her dad is the cop. This is the cop that Holly and and Brent’s mom have been talking to about him being missing, and the cop has, you know, found his broken iPad or cell phone or whatever it was. So they know that there’s probably something bad going on. But, when when Jamie takes Mia home, you think that it might kinda be this either awkward or angry, exchange between the father and the daughter or the father and the guy who’s brought the daughter home in this condition. But she just turns and hugs him, like, gives him a big hug and then turns and walks in without saying anything to her dad.   And the dad just he doesn’t really say anything. He just kind of, looks at Jamie, and Jamie makes the jokes. It is funny. Something like, well, I guess I danced her off her feet or something like that. And It’s funny. But then the dad walks inside, and he walks to her room, and you can hear from the other side of the door that she’s crying, sobbing. And he opens the door and you see her with her back to him laying on the bed. And I’m pretty sure she said, why can’t you find my brother? Isn’t that what she said? Yep.   And then he goes and lays back down with his wife, and we see on their night stand a picture of a teenage boy. It’s the boy. It it’s it was one of Lola’s boys. It’s the one that got away. 

Todd:  So and so Valentine. Right. It’s the 

Craig:  one that got away. And so now we realize that the reason that she’s been engaging in all this destructive behavior is because she is broken having lost her brother, and that’s the point where I’m like, oh, man. I guess that wasn’t so funny. Yeah. You know? She’s she’s really in a really bad place, and you feel bad for her and her whole family. 

Todd:  Yeah. She and Brent are in very similar situations. Yeah. I feel like this whole this whole film is just showing us how different people deal with the prospect of going on when they’ve suffered a great 

Craig:  loss 

Todd:  and whether or not they even want to go on. 

Craig:  And the fact that you can show something so serious in such a crazy movie, I mean, the the torture stuff, the psycho stuff is just that. It’s crazy. Mhmm. I mean, she is just a lunatic, but underscoring all of that is really some real human emotion. And at least in the other characters, she’s just Craig, but the other characters have real stuff that they’re dealing with. And it does. It kinda puts a dark spin on it that I didn’t real I mean, dark in a sad way. Right.   Sad kind of Right. 

Todd:  It’s been on a very dark movie. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, then we’re we’re getting near the end. We see what is going to happen to Brent. The daddy pulls back a large section of the carpet, and there’s these big trap doors underneath. And they open them up, and you hear stuff from down below. And I don’t know if I caught this the 1st time, but it’s the same muffled kind of screaming that, Brent has been doing. So I guess this is some of her former victims that they have now kept in the in the cellar. 

Todd:  Which is another above and beyond moment. We were not expecting this. No. Okay. So she killed all these people, blah blah blah. No. They haven’t even killed these people. Right.   They have been keeping them underneath the house in this sort of feral 

Craig:  darkness, tossing in roadkill for them to eat. And that it’s we we know. I mean, it’s that’s gonna be Brent’s fate, and the way that they keep these people well, first of all, I mean, they’re in a huge, like, cement pit. You know? They they couldn’t get out. But I guess the way that they keep them from strategizing or planning or whatever is, they drill holes in their heads and then pour in boiling water. And they start that process with Brent. I mean, she takes on the jacket, the the video jacket, that’s what you see. You see her in this pink dress with this hand drill. 

Todd:  And she says this is my very first drilling. 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  So now we also Todd for a little bit of really dark comedy when she can’t quite do it right or whatever, but it’s also obviously extremely brutal. Right. 

Craig:  And and she does it. I mean, the first time I was watching this movie, I’m thinking 

Todd:  no way. 

Clip:  She won’t 

Craig:  go through it. Way. I thought, you know, somebody’s gonna bust in. The phone’s gonna ring. Something’s gonna happen right at the last minute. But, no, she totally drills the hole in his head. Meanwhile, he’s conscious this whole time, but right at well and then she tries to pour the water in, but the hole is too small, so she asked the dad to make it bigger, which he starts to do, and you can hear it. You can hear the bone chipping.   You can see smoke coming up from the burning flesh. It’s horrible. Oh, it’s so gross. But at that moment, he’s able to, untie he well, he’s able to cut the the ropes around his wrist, and he jumps up and slashes the razor blade across daddy’s face. And then there’s a whole ruckus. 

Todd:  And the whole time you’re going, yes. Yes. Thank God. Give it to these people every which way you can. Finally. Yeah. He And he stabs dad in the neck, like, 10 times. Yes. 

Craig:  And you’re like, thank you. Thank you. Yes. Stabs him in the neck and then eventually, Pushes him into the pit. Pit and the whatever you wanna call him down there, just start going 

Todd:  to town on his face. Right. Which is a fantastic moment at the same time, the dumb idiot is just sitting there by the edge of the pit in horror. Mhmm. And what happens, of course, is she comes up behind him and chucks him into the pit. 

Craig:  Right. He they had tussled a little while too, and he was able to get in some good punches to the face. And, again, you’re like, yes. Give it to her. You’ve been waiting for these people to get their comeuppance for so long, but then he he’s down in the pit. Meanwhile, Holly remembers that Brent had told her that it was Lola who had asked him to the dance. The only lead she’s got. Right.   So she and it seems like kind of a loose lead. It’s you know, it’s kind of funny. She she calls the cop, in the middle of the night, and he immediately gets in the car and drives out there, and things get a little silly. You know? Like, he he looks in the window, and he sees blood everywhere, but, of course, he doesn’t call back up. He just breaks in, and, then he hear, Brent is, like, throwing things at the the metal door. So he hears he’s down there, and you know what’s gonna happen. You know? He he opens the doors, and, Brent sees him standing up there in the light, but we see also Lola coming up behind him. And Brent tries to point that as the cop turns around, he gets like a 

Todd:  Like, it’s almost was it like an axe in 

Craig:  the face or something? Like a meat cleaver or 

Clip:  something 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  To the face, and then he gets, down in the pit too. And that was a sad part too because I’m thinking, Todd, this poor guy and now his poor daughter who’s already lost the brother and now has lost her her dad. 

Clip:  It’s kind 

Craig:  of a sad thing. And Lola goes in, smothers bright eyes, says Todd night, mommy, and then she comes back, and she looks a mess. I mean, she’s beaten up. She’s got blood on her lips, and her hair is disheveled. And she just looks down at him and says, now I’m going to your house, and I’m gonna stab your mom in the throat like you stabbed my daddy in the throat. And then I’m gonna go to Holly’s house, and I’m gonna stab her in the heart just like you did me. And meanwhile, he’s trapped down there. I mean, the the door’s gotta be the trapdoor above’s gotta be, like, 8 feet above him at least. 

Todd:  Least. More than that. Yeah. And, 

Craig:  he stuck down there, and we see Lola. And, again, it’s this great shot there. I loved that shot of her. She’s, like, walking across a field, and it’s kind of in muted color, almost even a little out of focus. 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Craig:  And it’s just this golden sunset, and you just see kind of the pink triangle of her dress walking all the way across the screen. 

Todd:  With a knife, carrying a knife. And then that interesting shot of her, well, this comes a minute or two later after he figures out how to escape, which is to pile actually, probably Todd thing the cop was down there. It was probably just the extra body he needed. To pile up on top of the bones in order that all the bones that were down there. 

Clip:  Well, 

Craig:  and the he had had to kill those cannibals That’s right. Too. So he piled all those up, and he’s kinda able to get out. Meanwhile, Holly, I guess it’s morning now, and she hasn’t heard anything back from the cops. So I think she’s going out 

Clip:  Yeah. To Lola’s house. I don’t know how she knows where 

Craig:  she lives, but she’s headed out there. 

Todd:  She’s driving or something, at least driving down the road for some reason. Right. 

Craig:  Then we see Lola carrying her scrapbook, all bloodied, very slowly just walking down the center of the highway with this huge, huge butcher knife singing her little ditty, and that goes on for quite a long time. I mean, it was a a long shot, which made it, I thought, very uncomfortable. You know? It’s just showing the depth of her psychosis. And it’s that song. Mhmm. Same one. It’s almost the point in 

Todd:  the movie where we get this the musical interlude of the theme song. 

Craig:  Yeah. You know? Holly comes down the road, and Lola sees her before before Holly sees Lola. And so she goes off to the side of the road, and so as Holly’s driving, all of a sudden, something hits her windshield. And then we see kind of in slow motion the pages of the scrapbook falling down around the car, and then Lola appears outside the door. 

Todd:  Yep. And, opens the door, and, Holly is there’s just this moment between the 2 of them where they’re staring at each other, and Lola or Holly sees the chain, the necklace with the razor blade on it hanging from Lola. 

Craig:  Yeah. She had picked it up off the floor out of a puddle of blood and put it on. 

Todd:  And, again, I thought this was an interesting parallel with that scene in the movie where the 2 girl jealous girlfriends come to 

Craig:  Fight over 

Todd:  the same guy. Yeah. Exactly. Except in this case, it’s a very literal fight Mhmm. Because 1 person has a knife and is very intent on killing the other. There’s no music behind this part. Mhmm. It does kind of go into silence and just them fighting.   In a way, it is a little comical. I think the parallel makes it comical, and also, I mean, I hate to say it, but it’s almost like a bit of a cat fight 

Craig:  kind of thing. Yeah. It is. 

Todd:  There’s definitely against each other. They fall out of the car. They kinda roll around a little bit, and then but it’s not that bad because Holly is able to jump up and run off, and Lola’s running after her down the street. Yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. And so they’re just running. Meanwhile, like we said, Brent piles up the bodies and is able to get out. And as Holly and, as Mia’s chasing Holly down the middle of the highway, here comes the cop car, and Brent is driving it. And there’s a moment where because Holly’s in the lead, you’re afraid that he’s gonna hit her, and that almost happens. You know, they he comes over a hill, and she’s kind of cresting the hill too coming the opposite direction. And he sees her, but he’s able to swerve around her, and he hits Lola instead. Runs her down, in the road. 

Todd:  And it’s a direct parallel to what happened before. He swerved around the 1 guy except instead of hitting a tree Mhmm. He hits Lola, 

Craig:  so it’s 

Clip:  a good 

Craig:  thing. So Holly runs to the car. She gets in. She’s immediately horrified by what she sees, but then they kind of embrace. And then again, just such a I I just don’t recall really just to show how psycho she is. Now you’ve got Lola bloodied, and her limbs are like akimbo. Like, she’s broken in every place, and she’s got the knife in her hand. And with the knife and with her elbow, she’s dragging herself towards the car with this just look of complete rage on her face.   And they both Holly and Britt kinda turn around in the car and see her. And, he starts to back up. And then it’s just a very, very long, slow pan on Lola’s face until Yep. And that’s it. 

Todd:  Yep. And you wanted that to happen so badly. Right. But at the same time, it does appear to be in trying to engender the smallest amount of sympathy for Lola because it’s a very slow slow slow pin not just into her face but into her eyes. And we’ve had that shot in that in this movie multiple times. We’ve had that shot going into Brent’s eyes when he’s spaced out and and worrying about his, you know, getting back into his head about his dad. We have that shot coming into his mother’s eyes where she’s staring out the window in just one of these scenes. 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And I believe we also had a similar shot, into the eyes of, the the policeman father as he was laying down in the bed. Yep. Yep. You’re right. It seems to be trying to draw parallels between all of characters. 

Craig:  I agree, but I would also say that, again, I mean, she’s so crazy. I didn’t feel any sympathy for her, but I thought that it was a really interesting shot because I thought that the reason that it was so slow, even though when, you know, in reality, it would have been a a a a very fast moment, but it’s kind of her slowly coming to the realization that it’s over, that she’s not in charge anymore, that that she’s I mean, she has been so determined 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Throughout, and then, you know, she kinda realizes I I I lose. 

Todd:  That’s true. It could be. I kind of almost saw it as a surrender. Yeah. Maybe. You know? At, at that moment where she knew what was gonna happen and she was just going to let it happen. Again, might be a bit of a stretch to say that there are direct parallels there, but again, I just I see this movie as as how people deal with loss in different ways, and we don’t know enough of her backstory to be able to draw a complete parallel. 

Craig:  True. 

Todd:  And the fact that her mom’s death had to be somewhat sanctioned by her 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Or whatever. I kept looking for some kind of evidence or some kind of proof that Lola at one time had a sibling. 

Craig:  There was one of the pictures in the scrapbook where there was another little boy with her when she was young. I don’t know if that was a brother or if it was just a really early victim. Like, she’s been doing this even since, like, grade school. I I don’t I don’t know. 

Todd:  Because if that were the case, then the parallels are strikingly obvious. You know? Each one of these families is dealing with the loss 

Clip:  of a of a of 

Todd:  a kid in vastly different ways. 

Craig:  Right. Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, one last scene. It’s actually kind of a silly scene. I get why they wanted to do it. They to allow the mother to be reunited with her son. Obviously, one would think they would go to the hospital first.   He’s got this drilled hole in his head. But it’s but it’s, you know, it’s a nice moment where the 3 of them, the mom and Holly and and Brent all embrace. And then that’s the end of the movie, and it just kinda cuts to the credits. Well, actually, it’s the title card again with just the kinda glittery stuff falling down. You know what, Todd? I’m surprised you liked this movie. Really? You know, the more the more I thought about it preparing for today, I thought he might think that it’s kind of mean spirited and violence for violence sake. You didn’t feel that way? 

Todd:  No. Not at all. No. This is no. I mean and and you’re right because that is a criticism I often have of these torture porn movies. But like I said at the beginning, when we started talking, I felt like this movie had an underlying message that this violence was one way of delivering it. I wouldn’t say that the message was necessarily directly connected to the violence Right. But the violence and the level of brutality between that Lola and her father inflicted on that guy just had me constantly searching my brain for why.   Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? And I feel like there’s an answer there somewhere even if we’re never gonna find it because there’s so much time spent in the rest of the film on these other very damaged people who are doing self destructive things 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  That this just seems like a mirror image of that kind of pain and how they’re dealing with it. I just felt there was a message there somewhere, and it kept me interested and kept me intrigued. Well, good. Yeah. If it’d if you had taken out everything else, you know, if it had been just about this guy getting captured, which is how I felt Wolf Creek was. Right. 

Craig:  Yes. 

Todd:  I I that to date, that is, I think, just one of the most despicable movies I’ve seen. 

Craig:  Well, and also an Australian film too. Right? 

Todd:  It is. Yeah. And maybe that’s just coming to my head because it’s also an Australian film. But, I know a lot of people loved that film too, but I I just didn’t feel that there was a message behind it Mhmm. Like there was behind it. 

Clip:  It was 

Craig:  just gratuitous. 

Todd:  Yeah. It was gratuitous, and it was and it was gross. And even when this movie could be gratuitous, it didn’t always go Not always. Right. Yeah. 

Craig:  I mean, it’s definitely gory, folks. If you if you This was hard for me to work. Me too. And this kind of stuff doesn’t usually bother me, but it it was tough. It’s and it’s it’s well done. I mean, I think it’s executed well, but it is it is very, very violent, very bloody. 

Todd:  And part of what makes it tough is the characters were real. The the guy, we we really got to know and feel for Brent in so many different ways and the pain he was going through. Right. To see him going through this this real pain, on top of his emotional pain and guilt and feeling, of course, you’re rooting for him. Of course, you’re on his side, and, of course, you care, and it hurts that much more. Right. As opposed Todd, oh, what was that other one I watched last year I was really bothered by? Oh. Would You Rather? 

Craig:  Rather. Yeah. 

Todd:  Where I felt like you get introduced to these characters when they’re not carbon cutouts. You don’t know a thing about them, but you get to see horrible things happen to 

Craig:  them. 

Todd:  That to me is gratuitous. 

Craig:  Well and right. And in that movie, they were just setting it up. You know, they just had to come up. How’s how can we get a bunch of people in a room and then torture them? 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  There there’s more to this than that, I think. 

Todd:  There really is. And the parallels are so strong with some John Hughes. This is like John John Hughes in his twilight years when he’s off his rocker. Oh gosh. Yeah. Decides to go on a whole different direction. You know? Well, thank you for listening to another episode of 2 Guys in a Chainsaw. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend.   Like us on Facebook. Leave us a comment. We’d love to hear what you think. Until next week, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

We head into the theater again to catch the latest horror flick everyone has an opinion about: A “New England folktale” called The Witch.

The Witch (2015)

Episode 25, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd:  Welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Today’s film was The Witch. It’s out in theaters now. Craig and I thought we’d go have a look at it and come back to you today and let you know what we thought. Craig, did you read anything about this movie before you went to see it? 

Craig:  Really nothing at all. I mean, I kind of had a basic idea of the premise. I knew it was a period piece, set in colonial New England and that it dealt with a witch. Yeah. That’s about it. That’s all I knew. And I’d I’d read some kind no. I didn’t read them.   I mean, I saw headlines praising it. I didn’t really see anything, and I didn’t read into it because I didn’t want to know too much going in, but it seemed like what I was seeing out there was positive response. So Yeah. Looking forward to it. 

Todd:  It it the headlines I’ve been seeing have been almost on the same lines of it was writing a little bit of the reception of the Babadook 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  And, It Follows. Both of those got these glowing, it’s not your typical horror movie Right. Reviews. And so that made me a little hesitant going in here because I know that both of those films, I was a little disappointed in. Were were you? 

Craig:  I well, you know, especially with yeah. I was. And I think especially with, the Babadook, I think the problem was that I had seen so much positive stuff about it that I had really high expectations. And I I thought I thought it was good. I just thought I don’t know if it’s really worth all the hype. 

Todd:  You know? I mean, it’s different enough. And this movie so I intentionally much like you, I guess, I intentionally stayed away from those thinking that maybe if I don’t read too much about it and get too excited about it, it will turn out to, you know, move me in a way that I’ve never been moved. And? And, you know, it was, I don’t know. The movie is pretty slow. If I had one fault, I would say maybe it was a little too slow. Although, I’m not sure that you could do this movie any other way. Extremely slow burn, very depressing. 

Craig:  Yeah. Really grim from from the beginning on. 

Todd:  Yeah. Well, we might as well dive into the plot, I guess. Yeah. 

Craig:  And the plot itself is pretty simple. I mean, you start out, I I guess, in a Puritan courtroom, town meeting house or whatever, and it appears that this man is being tried or or sentenced or or something. And, they say that he’s a blasphemer or he I isn’t It’s 

Todd:  very unclear. 

Craig:  It’s yeah. It’s totally unclear. And he’s defending himself saying, no. I’ve never spoken anything but the true word of God. I believe in God. You all have no right to judge me. You’re false Christians. 

Todd:  Yeah. He he throws it right back at them, basically. 

Craig:  Right. And, when it comes down to it, I guess they basically just say I don’t know. I don’t know if they you know, if he hit with 

Todd:  He almost volunteered that he would be willing to just leave. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  And they were like, well, okay. If that’s what you wanna do, go ahead and do it. And so he they said you’re vanished from the community. 

Craig:  Yeah. And so he takes his family. He’s got his wife okay. So the the dad’s name is William. His wife’s name is Catherine, and they’ve got 5 kids. Two older kids, Thomas and a daughter Mhmm. Caleb, a son, and they seem to be around the same age maybe. Is Thomas and the oldest, you think? 

Todd:  It seems like it. Yeah. 

Craig:  But close in age. And then there are twins who are younger, I would guess, maybe, like, 8, something like that Yeah. And, a baby, Samuel. And the twins are, Jonas and Mercy. They, I guess, just go and establish their own little farm kind of on the outskirts of town. Like, at one point in the movie, the dad says it’s like a day’s, ride to town. So they’re out kind of in the woods on their own, and that’s it. I mean, the whole movie focuses on what happens with this family out here on their own, and they’re really the only characters that we well, aside from the witch Yeah.   You know, the only characters we really see for the the whole movie. 

Todd:  It seems to set this tone for the film that we’re going to be dealing a lot with themes of exile, themes of being alone, themes of being away from society, outside of society. There’s that shot as they’re leaving, which is a point of view shot of them. The the girls are just sitting on the back of this wagon that is slowly leaving out of Todd, and you see as they’re leaving there, they see the streets, and it’s just the backs of people, walking away from them, walking up the the hill or whatnot. Some Indians come into view and they Native Americans, and they’ve come and they’re walking, you know, up Todd, and they kinda turn turn their heads a little bit and watch them, but then keep going on their sense, a very visual metaphor for turning their back on these this family as they lone you know, in a very lonely way go out into the wilderness. And in a sense, I felt that was that put them in a very similar situation as the witch. Right? Right. The witch turns her back on society and goes out into the woods. And these folks are at that precipice where they set up their homestead, basically, on the edge of the woods.   Right. It’s like right at that point between civilization and the dark scary wilderness, and they set that up very quickly. Remember with those there’s just this these long shots of the woods Yeah. With very ominous music, but nothing going on. Right. 

Craig:  Yeah. And it sets up, you know, the idea that they’re isolated. They’re on their own. So any problems that they encounter, they only have themselves to rely on. You know? There’s there’s really no help. Like I said, the the village is, you know, I guess, within reachable distance, but they’ve been exiled. So they would have to be pretty desperate to seek solace or help from the people who have just banished them. So they’re really, it it’s desolate, and they’re alone.   And and the way that the film is shot even really holds to that tone. I mean, it it feels very puritanical. Everything is really simple, really dark, really, you know, all the colors are are you know, there’s no bright colors. Everything’s drab, and I read, that they tried to make as much use of natural lighting as possible and tried not to use, much artificial light when when possible. And you can tell because it’s it’s it’s not one of those movies that’s so dark that you can’t see what’s going on, but it’s always in shades of darkness or seems like it. 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s a very bleak depressing movie from the get go, and the pacing helps with that. And as you said, the color helps with that. I don’t know. I’m always convinced that camping is one of those things that everybody says they love Uh-huh. But nobody really actually enjoys or at least you do that night when you’re around the campfire telling stories, and then when you actually have to sleep and wake up in the morning, you just feel gross, you know. You’re you smell like smoke, and you you’re not comfortable because you’re sleeping in the sleeping bag on the ground, and it’s been Todd. Right.   And you can’t wash up, and it’s just nasty. And that feeling is the feeling I got watching this movie, 

Craig:  you know, 

Todd:  losing people’s existence. 

Craig:  Right. It doesn’t make you wish that you lived in colonial history. I mean, you know, they they have to completely provide for themselves. You know? If they can’t, then they’re just screwed. And it seems like, they’re trying to farm corn. Eventually, we find out that’s not going very well. But, really, we for a movie that really is pretty slow paced, we jump into the main conflict right away. 

Todd:  We do. 

Craig:  They arrive where they’re gonna set it up. They all kneel and pray kind of, and you see the woods looming in the background in this clearing. And then we jump a little bit forward in time to where they’ve built a a house, and they’ve kinda got some stuff, you know, their goat pen set up and whatnot. And the mom, Catherine, hands the baby Samuel to Thomason, the oldest daughter, for her to watch the baby while the parents are working. And Thomason takes the baby just kind of over to the side of the house, and she lays him down on the ground, and she’s playing peekaboo with him. And it’s a cute little fat baby, and he’s laughing and stuff. And I actually I had seen the trailer. So this was the 1 scene that I had seen.   She’s playing peekaboo with the baby, and, of course, you know, she covers her eyes and she, takes her hands away, and the baby’s there. Boo. Where’s Boo. The last time she does it, we see the look on her face, and then it shoots back down to where the baby was, but the baby’s gone. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  There’s no natural explanation for what could have happened. I mean, she’s she only had her hands on over her eyes for a couple of seconds, and they’re in a clearing. It’s not like there could have been somebody really nearby concealed that could have gotten the baby. So it’s gotta be something weird. Yeah. And then I was thinking, okay. So this is gonna be the mystery. Mhmm.   But it wasn’t. I mean, it cuts right away. You see this shrouded figure running through the forest, and you hear the baby Craig. And then, I mean, we get a full out witch scene. 

Todd:  You do. And that’s what really struck me about this film is it is absolutely on its face what it is. Mhmm. It wears its intentions on its sleeve. It plays it straight the whole way through. I was always waiting as you kind of alluded to there a 2nd ago for this mystery or this m night Shyamalan twist Right. Kind of thing happening. And, you know, spoiler alert, this is a movie about which a witch and what it does to this family. 

Craig:  Right. I mean, the direction that they go is that this is actually set, I think, about 30, 50 years something before the Salem witch trials, but around the time that the first kind of witch scare happened, in New England. And, you know, the approach the movie takes is it’s real. It’s not just paranoia. It’s not just kids pretending. You know? There really are witches. I mean, obviously, the family has to process through their minds. You know? They don’t immediately jump to witchcraft even though that is something that they clearly believe in and it’s a possibility.   Mhmm. But they try to explain it away practically first. You know? Their their thought is it had to have been a wolf, you know, or or some animal. We know that that doesn’t make any sense, but that would be you know, my first thought wouldn’t be, oh, well, witches, obviously. Yeah. But as it turns out, it is witches, or a witch at least 

Todd:  that we see. It’s odd because it does leave the movie in a good way, leaves a little bit unclear as to okay. Well, maybe it’s a witch. Is it is there supernatural stuff going on, though? Is some of this in their mind? Is some of it dreamy? It’s very clear that the woman has taken the baby because as you said, we see a scene. The very next thing is this baby laying down and the woman’s hand kind of in the shadows caresses it and then takes a knife. Mhmm. And I thought maybe she’s gonna castrate it, but it seems like actually killed the baby because she’s smearing the blood and and guts kind of over her. Again, we don’t get a good look at her, but we see her older saggy, 

Craig:  kind of She’s nude. I mean, it’s it’s kind of your I don’t know. You know, there’s lots of different versions of witches, but this is when I think of traditional coven witches. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Like, the Macbeth witches, you 

Todd:  know. Right. Right. 

Craig:  Todd, you know, haggie. Right. Naked. 

Todd:  Like, witching and bitching, you know, that we saw in the Right. Big old one at the end is sort of the caricature of that. 

Craig:  An old lady, old hat, and she’s she’s nude, and babies in peril is a lot like dogs in peril. Like, you know, you’re like, no. Not the baby. And and they don’t show anything terribly graphic, but it’s it’s clear. I mean, she puts the knife towards the child, and then you see her. And this is all shot so that you’re not getting a direct look. You’re kinda seeing her from behind or from the side in profile. The light focus.   The light is low, and it’s just lit by kind of flickering firelight. But you do see that where the baby was laying is now there’s blood and gore there, and she’s, like, bathing herself in in the blood. So Yeah. It appears that she sacrificed the baby. And they you know, the family looks for a few days, but then they just have to give up. You know? There’s they don’t know what to do. 

Todd:  Yeah. And the mother is just beside herself. She, Catherine. Right? 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  She has not slept as the father says. What’s his name again? 

Craig:  William. 

Todd:  As William says, she hasn’t slept in days ever since it happened. 

Craig:  And she’s been constantly praying to herself. I mean, these people are supremely religious. Yes. I mean, they are they are true Puritans. 

Todd:  You know? 

Craig:  You know? They’re constantly praying. They’re constant the daughter, at one point in the beginning says, I know that I deserve eternal hellfire. I’ve broken every commandment in thought, but please have mercy on me. It’s that very puritanical self loathing kind of thing. 

Todd:  Which is a very arresting scene because this 11, 12 year old girl, you’re thinking what in the world has she done? 

Craig:  Could she 

Todd:  possibly have done to flagellate herself Right. In this vicious sort of way verbally? Right. And she’s cute, and she’s nice, and she’s generally pretty sweet, and she’s very responsible. Mhmm. Like, they all have to be responsible Mhmm. In order to make this existence go. And that was another thing that really struck me about this movie was it takes its time showing you just how miserable a lifestyle this is. When you are out on your own homesteading at this time, in this period, all you have really is the luck of the draw Mhmm.   And faith to turn on. And there these people’s faith is failing them. Mhmm. A 100% all the time, but they cling to it even more fervently because it’s all that they have. Right. The corn is going bad, and it’s rough and dirty and miserable, and they have to carry the water from the creek. It’s just exhausting watching it. 

Craig:  Yeah. And, I mean, obviously, this is fiction. They there’s a on screen text at the end that says that this was based on, actual historical court documents, and some of the, lines from the movie are actually recorded in in court documents and whatnot, which I feel like is to, you know, be like, oh, it’s based on a true story. But it it’s really not all that surprising. I mean Yeah. Though it is fiction, I feel like it’s it’s pretty true to what colonial Puritan life was like. I mean, it was hard, and they did strongly believe in the forces of evil. They literally believed that the forest was a wicked place where the black man, the the devil, prowled around and had a book that, you know, would he would force you to sign your name, and then he would have your soul.   They believed in, in witchcraft. And and, of course, you know, I think that that was the reasoning for that was to keep order in their society. Mhmm. But, again, like you said, very unpleasant. I mean, just even, you know, feeling the mother, when the baby dies, she’s inconsolable, and she feels that maybe they’re being punished for whatever crime they were accused of back in the village. 

Todd:  Which lays on the guilt. Right. Especially the guilt on Thomasin. Of course, she feels guilty, and you could see it in her face. 

Craig:  Well and it seems like as as rebellious as a young Puritan could be, I feel like like Thomason just maybe has a little bit of an she has like a she has like a little independent streak, and so it seems like maybe she’s kind of been a nuisance for her parents in the past, especially the mom. There seems to be some tension between Thomason and the mom. Then, I mean, Thomason was the one who had the baby when it went missing. So I think the mom’s got a little bit of blame going on there too, and it seeps out a little bit. So there’s tension between them. There’s tension abounding because There is. They are on the verge. I mean, they’re doing okay in the moment, but the winter is approaching.   They don’t have enough store Todd. And so, though they have tried to avoid the forest because of their beliefs about the forest, the dad secretly takes Caleb out into the forest, to set traps. 

Todd:  That’s right. 

Craig:  And they keep that, and and he asks the son, Caleb, to keep that a secret from the mother. So then there’s secrecy and Mhmm. All kinds of stuff going on. 

Todd:  One thing piling on top of it. And he does take him out there, and they’ve set these traps. In the meantime, later on, we get a very pivotal scene with Thomason and Caleb sitting by the edge of the brook. And, again, that’s what this movie really does. I I can’t say it’s subtlety, but it’s a quiet sort of visual language 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Where Thomason is washing clothes Mhmm. And I’m this may even be the 2nd time in this film, yeah, when Caleb is looking at her, and he’s looking at her cleavage. She’s got almost no cleavage, but he’s 

Craig:  she’s a 

Todd:  12 year old girl. Right. But she’s blossoming, and he’s taking some interest. And so you have this again, it’s it’s more of the sadness of this isolation 

Craig:  because this 

Todd:  boy’s gotta look at his sister when he’s getting these feelings that he’s at this age. And you know she’s gotta be if she’s not already, you know, at that age. 

Craig:  Well, and it’s the isolation, but it’s also when you live that life that where you repress every, you know, natural desire. It’s bound. I mean, especially in adolescence, it’s bound to spill out somewhere. And as yucky as it sounds, I mean, if your sister is the only young female around Yeah. It she’s gonna maybe draw your eye. 

Todd:  But the movie doesn’t really pound you over the with this. No. It’s it’s very subtle. Yeah. It’s, again, more of that tension. Now you have the tension of these kids growing up, and they’re at these pivotal points in their lives when their emotions and and you’re also fighting hormones and things like that. And the 2 little kids, what were their names again? 

Craig:  The boy is Jonas and the girl is Mercy. Mhmm. 

Todd:  Jonas and Mercy are almost, like, way too cute, and they run around in their bonnets, and and they are get to be kids. They just play around, and they run around. They run around with the the ram. 

Craig:  The the goat. Goat. Black Phillip. They I I guess it’s you know, these goats are obviously for their agricultural purposes. They, you know, they they harvest their milk and whatnot, but it seems like Black Philip is kind of the kid’s pet goat. Yeah. And they play around with him and sing songs and, like, talk to him and stuff. 

Todd:  Get back. 

Craig:  You should stop that. See it. And it is it is cute. But, at that scene by the river or creek or whatever it is where she’s washing clothes, Caleb is upset just because of everything that’s going on. You know? Like you said, it’s just one thing after another. Mhmm. And she comforts him, and it’s sweet. It’s not yucky.   I mean, it’s weird at all. No. It’s it’s just sweet brother, sister. But then they hear something like a twig snap or something, and they get up. And I’m thinking maybe the witch is hanging around or something, but it it turns out it’s Mercy. But, she’s got, like, a stick that she’s, like, pretending to use as a broom. And she’s saying, I’m the witch of the woods, and I’m gonna get you. And she’s, I guess, teasing or kind of picking on Thomason.   So then Thomason turns it around on her and says, no. I’m the witch of the woods, and I, took Samuel. And at night, my spirit comes out of my body and dances naked in the woods with the devil. And 

Todd:  And I signed his book. And 

Craig:  Right. And I’m I’m gonna eat you or something along those lines. I mean, she’s lying, but she’s a Terrifying little girl. She’s terrifying the little girl, and I was thinking this is dangerous. And it would have been very dangerous in their society to even pretend that, 

Todd:  you know, because with the young child. 

Craig:  Yeah. And they were the Puritan community in general was so paranoid. It did not take very much for them to you know, for suspicion to rear its ugly head. So I knew. I was like, oh, you really don’t wanna be doing that. 

Todd:  And she didn’t. Right. It really was a bad call. I mean, we’ve all seen the crucible rings. So we know how that how that that thing goes. 

Craig:  Well, the mom and the dad are talking about they’re in bed. It’s like a 1 room house, but the mom and the dad kind of have curtains around their their bed when 

Todd:  they sleep. They’re down below, and the kids sleep in the loft like up above. 

Craig:  Right. And, they’re talking about the immediate future and what they’re gonna do, and the mom calls and to see if the kids are awake. And because they don’t respond, she assumes that they’re asleep, but they’re not. They’re sitting up listening. And she says she’s getting I think she’s getting uncomfortable because Thomason is developing. She is becoming a woman. And not only do they need money, but it was also traditional for when young women became young women for them to go out and to work as a servant in another household, until they would be married, and then they would go to their husband’s household. 

Todd:  Mhmm. 

Craig:  And so, the kids hear that that’s the plan, that the parents are going to the dad’s gonna take her into town and, find a family for her to live it with and and work for. And she doesn’t wanna go, and then I so I I guess maybe Caleb doesn’t want her to go either. 

Todd:  It seems like it’s his he’s trying to protect her, trying to get some again, trying to improve this family situation all on his own so that she doesn’t have to leave. Mhmm. So he decides to go off and tries to go off in the middle of the night essentially with the horse. And Thomason comes out and sees what he’s doing and says, you can’t go that. You can’t go into the woods. And he says, no. I I need to do this for us. Eventually, she convinces him to take her with him.   Mhmm. So they go into the woods, and the woods are pretty creepy. Yeah. Every time the woods are shown in this movie, it’s it really is the unknown. It’s the scary. It’s the lack of it’s the wild, essentially. Absolutely. But it’s also the dead and the cold.   Yeah. They’re not eve it doesn’t seem to be teeming with wildlife. At least 

Craig:  it’s 

Todd:  not helping these folks out any, and we’re not seeing it. Except we do every now and then see this rabbit. 

Craig:  Yeah. This weird rabbit. Like, the 1st time that, the dad and Caleb went out, they saw this rabbit, and the dad tried to shoot it, but it’s his gun backfired in his face. And then I feel like Thomason I don’t remember if this is, you know, in the correct timeline, but at some point, Thomasin sees the rabbit in the goat’s pen. 

Todd:  That’s right. 

Craig:  And when they go out, when Thomasin and Caleb are out this time, he finds something in one of the traps that they had set, so they’re happy about that. But then the dog, as it did the 1st time when he was out with his dad, the the dog starts barking, and they see that he’s barking at this rabbit. And so the dog takes off after the rabbit. Caleb takes off after the dog. And the horse even rears back at the rabbit. Right. Right. And, Thomason is on the horse, and she’s thrown from the horse and is knocked unconscious on the ground. 

Todd:  And I guess the horse takes off. Is that Yeah. That’s basically what happened. Yeah. Yeah. 

Craig:  And so I guess the night passes. I mean, I I think that Caleb kinda gets lost in the woods by himself looking for the dog. Thomason is knocked out. So the when the parents wake up in the morning, they they see that they’re gone, and the horse is gone, and the gun is gone, and the dog is gone. So they kind of go out into, you know, as far into the woods as they dare kind of calling and whatnot. Meanwhile, Thomas hears the dog, Fowler, the dog, whimpering, and he comes upon him, and the dog has been he it’s still alive, unfortunately, but it’s he’s it looked like it 

Todd:  had been gutted. 

Craig:  Yeah. And so Thomas continues looking around until he comes upon this little cottage. 

Todd:  This is Caleb, by the way. 

Craig:  Oh, excuse me. Yeah. Caleb. Until he comes, across this cottage in the woods, you know, it looks like 

Todd:  The classic cottage in the woods. Right. Yeah. 

Craig:  I mean, it’s kind of earthen and kinda seems like it’s maybe kinda built into a hill or something, and there’s smoke coming out of the the chimney. And, of course, you’re thinking, get away from there. What? 

Todd:  It might as well be made of candy. 

Craig:  Exactly. Exactly. And he approaches the door, and, the door opens and out steps this beautiful woman in a low cut revealing thing that shows her bosom. And I liked this scene because it felt like Caleb was being seduced, you know, just both visually, but also that there was some sort of other worldliness about him. 

Todd:  Some kind of supernatural aspect. 

Craig:  Right. And I the reason that I liked it was because the the kid who played, Caleb, on his face I mean, you could tell he was being drawn towards this woman, but on his face, you could almost tell that he knew that it was bad and that he was in trouble, that this wasn’t a good thing. Yeah. And so she he approaches her, and she leans in and kisses him on the mouth. And when she kisses him on the mouth, then her arm reaches around and grabs the back of his head very forcefully, and the arm is the arm of an old hag. 

Todd:  Yeah. That was a really effective scare, I thought. It was creepy. It was extremely creepy. And, again, in the movie that doesn’t have much for jump scares, I would I would consider that one. Although, it’s not your traditional jump scare. 

Craig:  Right. It’s a little more subtle. 

Todd:  Yeah. The music comes to a hit and yeah. I, I also thought that that was an effective scene, and it really is emblematic of a lot of this film in that the camera lingers on people and their faces for almost too long sometimes Mhmm. To that point where it starts to feel uncomfortable. 

Craig:  Well and it feels unnatural. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And I I think that that is effective. 

Todd:  And it gets you wondering in your head, what are they thinking? Mhmm. I especially got this feeling a lot when the camera would linger on Thomason. Even at that moment where you talked about toward the beginning of the movie where she’s playing peekaboo with the baby and her She does that last peekaboo, and it’s from the baby’s perspective. We see her face, and there’s that look of shock. There’s that look of surprise, but it lingers for quite a while. Mhmm. And it gets you really analyzing her emotional state Yeah. More than you normally would.   You know, if I were doing if I were cutting that scene, I absolutely would’ve cut away. It would’ve been a quick Yeah. Look of shock. It would’ve been a quick thing, but I think this is more effective in that way. It really pulls us into the minds of the characters. It forces us to to ask what they’re thinking, and it forces us to second guess sometimes Yeah. The things that they’re saying because there are so many secrets and because we’re still wondering if there isn’t something more here 

Craig:  Exactly. 

Todd:  That meets the eye. That was a great that was a great scene. We know that he’s pretty much done for. And at the meantime, Todd Thomason has found her way out of the woods back to the family. Mhmm. 

Craig:  Well, they they all go in the house. And at this point, you know, again, like, it’s not set outright, but just through the tension between characters, you can tell that they’ve not failed to notice that Thomason has been present when both of these people have disappeared. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And so even though it’s it’s not in your face, you know that they’re starting to question and and that maybe she is gonna kind of be at the center of some of those questions. The dad, William, wants to go out and look for him, in the night, and and the mom says that she doesn’t want him to go out. It’s, she wants him to go into town for help, but he doesn’t have a horse. He doesn’t have a gun. He doesn’t have a dog. It’s raining. 

Todd:  Yeah. They took all that. 

Craig:  Yeah. And, I think that I don’t know. If she convinces him not to go, I don’t remember how that played out. 

Todd:  Oh, that’s right. But you did no. She doesn’t end up going, but what happens is that, I think it’s Thomason who’s outside wandering around, 

Craig:  or she goes out to feed the To, yeah, to bed down the goats. They have to bed down 

Todd:  the goats every day. And there’s Caleb standing there naked, by the post in the rain, and he collapses. 

Craig:  And 

Todd:  she takes him in. They take him up to the attic, and he’s babbling. He’s 

Craig:  At first, he’s kinda catatonic, but then the next morning, he they’re all outside working. I mean, that that’s the other thing too. Like, life can’t stop. That’s right. They have to keep working. So they’re all outside working, and, they hear a a scream from inside. And it’s Caleb, and he has kind of a dick. 

Todd:  William. 

Craig:  William. Hold it. Sheldon, away from this. 

Todd:  Thomas, hang out. 

Craig:  Look like his jaws. I I had noticed this when he was outside, but he’s got, what looked like scratches, all over his body. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. And speaking of that, again, another bit that is real subtle, but just shows you how bleak and sad things are. Just in case you need a reminder is when they’re first looming over him as he is catatonic and they’re patting him down and they’re doing all that they can, they cut a little bit of his, around his eye and start to bleed him out. Yeah. You know? It’s it’s old medicine. I know. That’s old. 

Craig:  See, I don’t know anything about that. That’s what I thought. I was like, so I guess you bleed a fever. 

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. That’s weird. Did the there’s the something bad in the blood, and so you bleed the blood out. And you’re thinking, man, this kid has no chance. He has no chance 

Craig:  out in the woods. He’s got 

Todd:  no chance with his family at home. 

Craig:  So he screams and they go in and, like, I don’t know. I mean, first of all, they all have really, really thick New England accents. Yes. Really thick. And there were times when I really struggled to understand what they were saying, and there were sometimes when I didn’t understand what they were saying. 

Todd:  And it wasn’t just the accent, but it was also the dialect. Right. The phrases that they’re using and everything. When you you’re already having a hard time making out what they’re saying and then you the words and sentences are so unnatural for present day compounded on the fact that everything spoken at really low tones and they’re almost whispering to each other half the time or, you know, it’s kinda down deep in their throat when they’re talking because it’s so quiet. My gosh, man. I’d say about half the dialogue in this movie went, like, right over my head. 

Craig:  I’m glad I wasn’t the only one. And, like, it sounded really authentic, but if you can’t understand what they’re saying, like, I don’t know. Anyway 

Todd:  Oh, I will I almost wondered though if you could watch this film without, with the sound turned off and still completely understand it. 

Craig:  I think you could. Mhmm. And for the most part, I mean, you might not get some of the nuances, but I think that just the the energy of what’s going on in each of the scenes kinda speaks for itself. Yeah. He kinda has this fit, and then he his his jaw locks. And he starts bleeding from the mouth. And they they try to, like, pry his his mouth open so that they can put, like, a stick or a cork in there. They eventually do pry his mouth open or or he goes limp or something, and he coughs up what looked like a crab apple 

Todd:  or something. Craig apple. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  Now was that something he vomited, or was that something that was always in his mouth they didn’t know? It couldn’t fit in his mouth? 

Craig:  No. I don’t think so. He retched. I mean, I don’t know. I 

Todd:  mean Yeah. 

Craig:  But, I 

Todd:  wondered if that was supposed to be something somewhat supernatural or if that was just, 

Craig:  Well, it’s it had an effect. The the mom said, he’s witched. Like, I don’t know if that’s some sort of specific lore. Right? I don’t know. It could be. But at that point, she knows he’s witched. And now the little kids say it’s her and point at Thomason and tell the parents what Thomason said, and now she’s in trouble. 

Todd:  Now she’s in trouble, and they even go into this. Again, it’s it’s so much like the crucible. You know? They go into these these fits themselves. The the kids start almost speaking in tongues and twitching and 

Craig:  And they can’t pray they can’t pray like their prayer has been stopped or something like that. 

Todd:  And and you’re thinking, oh, is this a psychosomatic kind of deal or is this actual supernatural stuff going on? 

Craig:  And I still don’t know. I don’t either. I I couldn’t figure that out because, you know, with the I I teach literature, and so I have I’ve taught the crucible, and so I’ve looked into the witchcraft trials and whatnot. 

Todd:  That’s why you know so much. I’m like, oh, okay. This guy this guy knows way too much about puritanical signs. 

Craig:  So during the witchcraft trials, the a lot of the behavior remains unexplained, but it’s, you know, a common theory that these girls were just pretending. And once one of them started pretending, then the others would just follow suit. So it would seem like they all had similar symptoms Mhmm. Which would then be convincing because it was happening to lots of people, not just 1. But here, I didn’t know I thought there must be something happening because how would they know to do that? 

Todd:  Yeah. That’s true. They’re they’re isolated here and they of course, they’re of an age. They probably heard enough stories. 

Craig:  I suppose. 

Todd:  But, yeah, I think 

Craig:  the 

Todd:  perhaps the film is deliberately vague on that point. 

Craig:  Yeah. And like you said, they almost kinda I mean, they kinda fall to the ground and are twitching a little bit. You know, they they are they clearly seem to be affected. And the parents that the mother turns on Thomasin pretty pretty immediately. 

Todd:  She does. And the father, but he rides that fence. 

Craig:  Right. He he approaches her and and says, you know, tell me the truth, confess. You know? I think he says something like people can be unwitched or something like that, but you have to tell the truth. 

Todd:  Takes her outside. 

Craig:  Well, she runs away Craig, and, he follows her. And it seems that he wants to comfort her. And I think that he does. Mhmm. But at the same time, he still is suspicious, and I I think genuinely believes that she’s a witch. And he starts getting a little bit aggressive with her and keeps saying tell the truth, tell the truth, tell the truth. And she says, oh, you wanna hear the truth? Well, the truth is it’s your fault we’re out here. It’s your fault we don’t have any food.   It’s your fault you can’t do anything right except cut wood. 

Todd:  Yeah. You can’t hunt. You can’t grow. All you can do all you can do is cut wood. 

Craig:  Which, again, you know, she’s a teenager. She is being falsely accused, but maybe not the wisest time to to air this laundry. 

Todd:  It’s a good point. So are high. Yeah. 

Craig:  And I think that just further convinces him that she’s wicked, but she says, it’s not me. It’s the twins. The twins talk to that goat, and they say that goat tells them what to do. And the kids have said that several times that they talked to the goat, and Black Phillips told us this, and Black Phillips told us we can do whatever we want, and Black Phillips said this and this. 

Todd:  That was a real clever thing for her to do. Mhmm. Obviously, out of desperation, but, boy, did she turn the tables real quick. 

Craig:  Right. And so he takes her at her word, and goes inside and starts yelling at the kids who are still catatonic or whatever, telling them to confess, to wake up, to stop pretending. He says, I won’t be made a fool of by children’s games. And, eventually, I think he says, I’ll sacrifice these children like Abrahams. Abraham’s one that sacrifices some 

Todd:  of them. Like Abraham did. Yeah. 

Craig:  And, he picks up the little boy by, like, his 

Todd:  shirt. Of his neck. Yeah. He is terrified. 

Craig:  And and the little boy screams. So, again, I didn’t know if they were pretending. Like, if they if they were just so scared that they wanted to just kinda pretend like they didn’t know what was going on because he wakes up then, And at that point, then the dad is suspicious of all of them. 

Todd:  Yes. 

Craig:  The mother wants Thomason out of the house. The so the dad takes all of the kids. 

Todd:  All 3 of them. Yeah. Yeah. 

Craig:  Because Caleb died. He died. We forgot to say that. Yep. It’s it’s and it was a weird thing too. 

Todd:  Odd situation. He has a very dramatic death that would have seemed laughable in another film. Mhmm. It’s a very Shakespearean sort of death where he wakes up, and he starts praying to God and saying, oh, Lord, take me. I’m ready to join you up above in this very flowery language, very adult flowery language. 

Craig:  Well, it’s like, I feel your embrace. I feel your kisses. Mhmm. It seems like what’s happening is he is meeting his maker. Yeah. 

Todd:  And It’s it’s really odd, but it works in this movie because everybody’s talking like this. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  You know? And so you can see it, and he dies. So then the dad locks the kids up, the rest of the kids up in the pen with the goat. Uh-huh. He’s got them all boarded up in there. And, that’s when the girl and the other kids start chatting. And she’s like, did you real do do you really talk to him? And they don’t really answer, do they? 

Craig:  They she asks them, are you witches? And they don’t really answer. 

Todd:  No. 

Craig:  The girl, Mercy says, are you? And she says, no. I’m not. And she has said throughout, I love Caleb. I would never do any is that his name? Yep. Yeah. I love Caleb. I would never do anything to hurt him, and I would never do anything to hurt you. And I didn’t get the sense that, really, they were, at least consciously, involved with anything Mhmm.   Supernatural. I got more that they were just confused and didn’t really know what was happening. 

Todd:  Yeah. That’s what I felt too. 

Craig:  But they are in there. The mom and the dad are asleep in their room, which I thought was kinda funny. Like, they just go to bed. The kids are locked out in the in the goat pen. 

Todd:  We’ll deal with this in the morning. Right. We got enough chores to do. 

Craig:  We see the mother very quietly get out of bed, and there had been some business earlier on about how the dad had had to sell her father’s silver goblet, and she was really upset about that. And you notice the kind of in the background of this scene, the goblet is there. And then she turns around, and Caleb is there sitting and holding Samuel, the baby. And she goes over and she is quiet, but she says, I’m so happy to see you. Let me wake your father. He’ll be he’ll be so happy to see you, and they say, no. Let Caleb says no. Let him sleep.   And then I think we cut back to the kids in the pen. Yeah. 

Todd:  Right? They’re hearing stuff happen outside. It sounds like something’s landed on the top of the pen and then jumps down onto the ground. 

Craig:  Right. And then we cut back to the mom who is now holding the baby, and Caleb is saying something like, I’m glad you’re glad to see me. I’ve brought you a book. Will you look at it with me? 

Todd:  That’s right. You know what? I didn’t I didn’t I couldn’t interpret what he was saying. I’m glad you did for me. 

Craig:  He’s I brought you a book. Will you look at the book with me? And she says, yes. But wait. The baby’s hungry. And so she goes to breastfeed the baby. We cut back out to the pen. The little kids are up and are kind of inching towards, I don’t know, towards something. And I think that they say papa or something like that.   And then we see what they are seeing, and it is the naked hag witch. I mean, we just see her backside, and it looked like she was maybe suckling the goat or eating the goat. Naked. So she you know, they see her, and they’re just kind of standing there watching in awe. Her back is turned, and then all of a sudden, it closes up to her head, and she turns and, like, laughs. Right? This really wicked witchy laugh. And then it cuts back to the mother, and it’s like a full screenshot of her sitting in a rocking chair with a raven right in front of her eating at her breast, like like pecking at her breast. 

Todd:  Yeah. So she felt like she you know, we had left her. She was breastfeeding Samuel, but we see what’s really happening is this raven is pecking at it. And that’s the point at which you realize, alright, either we’re seeing this crazy dream sequence and all kinds of strange things are happening, or this is supernatural. Yeah. And that was the point where I I bought into the supernatural 

Craig:  thing pretty whole hog. Yeah. I I had pretty much bought into it before that just because I didn’t really see any alternative. 

Todd:  You 

Craig:  know? Like, like you said, in the beginning, I was thinking, well, maybe it’s gonna be misunderstanding or or or there’s some practical explanation, but, no. I mean, it’s it’s which is it’s witchcraft. Absolutely is. And then it so cuts to the next morning. 

Todd:  Yep. The next morning, and father gets up and he steps over, Catherine, and, he doesn’t notice her bloody. So we know that that’s true. Mhmm. That’s the point where we know, okay. That actually did happen because over her left breast is bloody. Right. And he walks outside, and the pen is burst open 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And all the animals The goats are slain. Slain over there. And who’s who’s the only one around? But, again, Thomason. Mhmm. And the boy even the kids are not there. They’re gone. And, so that’s when they have it out. 

Craig:  Well, the dad says something like he yells it or something accusatory or where are they or something like that. And then we don’t see what happens, but he gets all of a sudden, like, just hit really hard. And you’re not clear what has happened immediately, but then it pulls back a little bit, and you see that he has been gored through his gut and torso by Black Philip. And and not just a little bit, like blood is coming out of the womb. Yeah. 

Todd:  That was super surprising. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Black Philip’s in on it too after all. You know? Mhmm. And the dad almost seems to give up. He picks up an ax, and he looks to the heavens, and you see blood drip out of his mouth. And he looks back at the ax, and he tosses it down. And what does he ask a prayer? Maybe 

Craig:  corruption, I am thy father. I think he was talking about her. I think that he still thought 

Todd:  She’s a witch. 

Craig:  That and that she had done all of this. Mhmm. So then 

Todd:  Mother comes out. Mhmm. Mother comes springing out and sees everything that’s happened, which is interesting. I guess Blackfield went off to chew on some grass. Right. At that point, mother comes out and starts attacking Thomason, and they have a tussle on the ground. And, Thomason, in the midst of the tussle grabs a, 

Craig:  I guess, it’s a knife or knife 

Todd:  of some sort. And, you know, and self defense kinda wax mom with it, and mom gets his super cut on the face and starts to bleed on her. And, of course, mother especially now lays into her and starts choking her. And this was a heartbreaking scene because you can tell that Thomason, is being choked and that she does not have to let this go on. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And she’s sitting there and crying and crying, and you can tell that she is consciously making this decision to go ahead and take out mom, which she does with a couple more whacks. 

Craig:  She really doesn’t have any choice. No. I mean, it’s it’s it’s that or Or die. Right. 

Todd:  Yeah. And so she is the last surviving person in this family. And, man, that scene was heartbreaking. 

Craig:  Now this is getting close to the end of the movie, and I had no idea where it was gonna go from here. Yeah. Right? Yeah. It was getting really close to the end, and I I just couldn’t imagine what was going to happen next. Thomason goes in the house. She takes off her dress. She’s got a shift, like an under like a nightgown underneath. And she sits down at the table, and she lays down her head and sleeps until night.   And then at night, she takes a candle, and she goes out into the goat shed. Well, black Philip is, like, standing outside of the goat shed. Yeah. And she stands and kinds of they kind of look at each other for a little bit. This is kind of a wide shot, and then black black Philip turns and goes inside, and she and she follows him in. 

Todd:  And I thought maybe this okay. Maybe this is a dream sequence of some kind. You know? 

Craig:  I had no idea what was gonna happen. But you you 

Todd:  you This is crazy. This was absolutely crazy. From here on, we don’t see Black Philip. We just see her. It’s like from Black Philip’s point of view, her talking to him. And she just sits there in the candlelight in the shed and stares at him for a while and then asks him, tell me what what is it she says? 

Craig:  She says, I conjure you to speak to me like you spoke to the twins or something like that. 

Todd:  And there’s just silence for a while. She repeats it, and there’s silence for a while again, and then you hear a voice. 

Craig:  Uh-huh. This very low, whispery male voice. And, again, you I oh, I didn’t know what to think because I I had thought if the goat starts talking, that’s gonna be too much. It’s gonna get it’s gonna get into, like, evil dead, drag me to hell territory. It’s gonna be goofy. But because you can’t see him, there there’s no weird effect, and you don’t really know what she’s seeing. So it’s not like some animatronic goat head talking. 

Todd:  It’s brilliant. It’s a brilliant way to frame this if you’re gonna do it. And as the e the goat continues to talk, again, out of focus behind her, suddenly you see some boots go by and you realize there is a man of some kind in there with her Mhmm. Who’s walked back around from where the goat is, puts his hand on her shoulder, starts talking about this book that he 

Craig:  wants her to sign. He asks he asks her first, well but that’s the very first thing that he says. What do you want? Yes. 

Todd:  And Gosh. 

Craig:  She says, what can you give me? Yeah. And he says, do you want a pretty dress? Do you want to travel the world? Do you want wealth? And she says, yes. 

Todd:  At this point, of course, she’s got nothing else. 

Craig:  It’s a seduction, and it’s played very it’s uncomfortable that it’s played seductively. You know, his voice is very soft and and masculine and seductive. And like you said, he slowly walks around behind her, and once he and he’s completely in shadow, very, very dark. 

Todd:  Oh, you don’t see a face. No. Because we’re down on the ground, and you’re seeing maybe knees up. Right. 

Craig:  And when he does put his hand on her shoulder, eventually, it’s a very dark, like, unnaturally dark Yeah. 

Todd:  Hand. I thought maybe it was gloved or something. It’s really hard to tell. 

Craig:  Right. But he says, take off your shift, her her dress, and it seems like there’s a little bit of hesitation, but not very much. And, she takes it off, and he says, do you see a book before you? And we it the camera pans down, and there’s the book. And she says, I can’t write my name. And he says, I’ll guide your hand. Yeah. 

Todd:  It’s it’s right out of these puritanical nightmares. 

Craig:  Yes. 

Todd:  But really so well done. It’s funny that she even gets to that point where she doesn’t say, okay. Yes. Oh, Lucifer, oh, Todd, I will sign it. You know? She she’s hesitant, but he says, I’ll guide your hand. Right. Man, it’s such a good bit. And then she walks out of there out, and we get these long, slow shots of her walking naked into the woods.   Mhmm. 

Craig:  Followed by Black Philip right 

Todd:  behind her. Nude. Uh-huh. Through the woods and up to a full on witch, witch, thing going on Yeah. 

Craig:  You start you start it starts out quietly, but you hear this, chanting. I mean, it’s obvious, you know, witchy chanting, and it gets progressively louder until you realize that it has to be multiple witches. I mean, up to this point, we’ve seen the old hag. 

Todd:  We think there’s 1. 

Craig:  And we and we’ve seen the Beautiful. The beautiful woman, but I’d assumed they were 1 in the same, and she was just transforming. But now we see this whole coven. And, again, I mean, it’s straight out of the crucible or, anything else. Like, you know, these these women completely nude, dancing, kind of erratically around, chanting, you know, really suggestive, and she slowly approaches, and she’s watching. And as she watches, the witches begin to levitate up off the ground around this fire. And it’s such a I don’t know if beautiful is the right word, but it’s such a visually Yeah. Interesting shot.   And they just slowly and gracefully rise to different levels. And you see one of them rising to the very it’s shot from low, and she’s rising all the way to the top of this tree. And then it comes back to to Thomason, and we see her kind of from the shoulders up. And based on the perspective of the background, we see that she starts to rise too. And as she starts to rise, she smiles cut to black. Yeah. 

Todd:  Boy, that puts you in an interesting spot too because you’re thinking, well, this girl pretty much had no choice. Right. You’re also wondering, you know, in a in a strange sort of way, is she a little better off? 

Craig:  I mean, that’s 

Todd:  the thing. 

Craig:  It’s it’s at the she really does have no choice but to just surrender to it. I mean, it’s it’s what else is there left for her to do? I mean, even if she were to try to go back to the village, there’s gonna, where’s the rest of your family? Oh, they’re all murdered? Right. 

Todd:  What what you’re the only survivor, So 

Craig:  she seems to not have any choice. And at the end, it’s like, maybe because she has no choice, she chooses to embrace it. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And it’s weird. I did not expect it to go there. I expected some that she would get away. Maybe there would be a confrontation with the witch. Maybe somehow she would trick or defeat the witch somehow. That’s what I was expecting, but, no, it’s you know, she’s she surrenders to it. 

Todd:  I even thought it would be sort of a bleak depression, and she would almost do a suicide or or just give up on life and slowly rot away. And that maybe what we were seeing for a little while, I thought, well, maybe this is a dream maybe this is her own mind coming to terms with what’s happened. And just like the kids, you know, that there was a psychosis essentially. Mhmm. She’s so far beaten down, mentally that she’s conjuring up what she needs to, for her mind to come at ease. But I don’t think the movie plays it that way. I think it’s straight out supernatural. There’s too much other stuff going on. 

Craig:  Right. And, you know, it was such an unexpected ending. 

Todd:  Because of how straightforward it was. 

Craig:  Right. And and the what’s I like I said, after we, you know, got out of the theater, I was reading some trivia on it, and this movie has gotten a full endorsement from the church of Satan. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. 

Craig:  Satanists love this movie. They say that it is an accurate portrayal of the arts and Okay. Uh-uh. They they’re big fans. 

Todd:  That’s weird because I thought the church of Satan actually didn’t believe in the super natural. 

Craig:  I don’t know. And see, maybe it’s not what I read was Satanists. So maybe it’s not the official church of Satan. 

Todd:  I don’t know. 

Craig:  Could be. Alright. But there there are are Satanists out there who are glad that they’re getting a little bit of publicity. 

Todd:  Wasn’t there a little something in the news too about how people were staying away from opening night because the all the satanists were gonna come out? 

Craig:  Or Oh, I maybe I 

Todd:  did talk about that. It’s so funny. It’s almost like a little bit of, of the crucible all over again. 

Craig:  Yeah. But it also it adds it adds a little element of to me, it kinda creeps me out that they would embrace it. It kinda it almost makes me feel a little dirty. Like Right. 

Todd:  They’re not out there, you know, lining up to see sauce 22. Right. You know? Right. But this movie. 

Craig:  Yeah. So, I mean, that’s it. What what did you think? I mean, what’s your evaluation? 

Todd:  You know, I thought it was awfully slow, and I think you have to be in the right mindset. You have to be ready for a slow burn in order to watch this film, or you will be pretty bored and maybe maybe a little impatient. I was awfully tired. 

Craig:  Yeah. I was gonna say, we’re a couple middle aged guys with 9 to 5 jobs, and so we, you know, we’re we’re, you know, kinda early bird special kind of folks. So we went to, Tom. 

Todd:  We’re not, like, 65. Let’s Yeah. Tom. 

Craig:  Todd snuck out of work a little bit early, and he and his wife had been up late the night before working. And there were several times when I was pretty convinced you were asleep. 

Todd:  No. I swear to you. I didn’t sleep at all, but, only because I had something in my contact. I was so uncomfortable the whole time blinking. I couldn’t have possibly fallen asleep. 

Craig: 

Well, yeah, we went to a 4: 30 matinee. We’re the only 2 people in there. We were at the theater. 

Todd:  We had the run of the of the show. It’s just not a good not a good place to go if you if you’re trying to stay away. 

Craig:  Right. But, but I agree with you. It was kinda slow, and but Todd in a good 

Todd:  I mean, it’s a masterful thing. I don’t feel like I wasn’t needed to be cut. 

Craig:  I wasn’t bored, but it felt long. At one point, you asked me what time it was, and I think only something like 25, 30 minutes had gone by. And I thought, oh my god. Surely. No. It felt like an hour. Yeah. It really did. 

Todd:  It it’s it’s an hour and a half movie that feels like 2 and a half. Mhmm. But I think the payoff is worth it. It’s certainly different. Yeah. And, again, it’s so different because maybe we’re I guess, we’re kind of in this era now where the horror movies don’t really play it this straight anymore. Mhmm. You don’t get this straight out fairy tale.   Yep. Here’s a family. Yep. They’re terrorized by a witch. Yep. It’s a witch. There’s so much cleverness. It’s trying a meta going on that this took me to a place that I’ve I’ve rarely spent much time in this puritanical the closest thing I don’t know.   I couldn’t help but run through my mind the whole time I was watching this was, the the Shyamalan film. 

Craig:  The village. 

Todd:  The village. And maybe of late, that is the only film I’ve seen that’s and that one really truly isn’t set in Right. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. In that time period, but when else have I seen a movie, a horror movie set in the puritanical time period like this that we just played it so so straight? And really the dialogue, which, again, as you said at the end of the film, it said that much of the dialogue, if not most of the dialogue, was taken straight from writings of the time. Mhmm. That was very impressive. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  So it seemed very authentic that way too. It’s a kind of movie that you feel a little smarter after 

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, it feels like historical fiction. Yeah. It it really does seem to be rooted in history, although I choose to believe. It’s it’s the whole witchcraft thing is fiction. 

Todd:  Oh, you’re not a member of the church of Satan. 

Craig:  That’s what 

Todd:  you’re that’s what you’re revealing to us. It’s a shame. 

Craig:  I I I don’t know. I wouldn’t give it an a plus. Like I said, I didn’t really have any expectations going in, and I thought that it was pretty good, but I didn’t love it. 

Todd:  It wasn’t gripping, was it? Yeah. It was gripping at moments. Mhmm. It was certainly intriguing and interesting. 

Craig:  Yeah. And I think it was well executed. I I mean, I think it was well done. I don’t know. It’s just maybe it was maybe it was a little too slow for me. There were definite highlights. I thought that the young lady who played Thomason did a very 

Todd:  good job. 

Craig:  I thought the acting overall was was quite strong. I I think that my favorites were, Thomasin and Caleb. Yeah. They really seem to, you know, embody their characters. None of them were bad. Like you said, the kids were cute and precocious, and the mom was a little over the top, but it it didn’t read like bad acting. It just read like character choice. The cinematography was different.   Like, you could tell they were going for a particular tone, and I think they got what they were going for. So it’s not that I don’t think that it’s a well done movie, and it’s not that I think that there won’t be people out there who really like it. For example, I was reading that Stephen King said that this movie terrified him. 

Todd:  But Stephen King, almost anything terrifies this guy. Doesn’t he sleep with a night light on? I don’t know. But, yeah, I know what you mean. 

Craig:  I wasn’t terrified, but it was creepy. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And, I think it’s I think it’s worth a viewing. If you’re a horror fan, I I would say if for nothing else than the originality, I I’d I’d give it a watch. 

Todd:  I concur. Well, thank you again for listening to another podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend. Check us out on Facebook. We’re also on Itunes and Stitcher where you can subscribe to us. Leave us a note. Let us know what you thought of the of the show, and give us some suggestions for other films to watch in the future. Until then, I’m Todd.   And I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

This week we dip back into comedy, where a case of mistaken-identity on the part of some overzealous college kids leads to their deaths and much confusion on the part of two rednecks just trying to enjoy some peace and quiet.

Tucker and Dale vs Evil (2010)

Episode 24, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd:  Welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: I’m Craig.

Todd: And today, we decided that we’ll go for comedy. We’re doing Tucker and Dale Versus Evil. Craig, you suggested this one. Have you seen it before? 

Craig:  Yeah. I’ve seen it before. You know, we’ve talked about watching this one for a long time. You’ve seen it before too. Right? Yep. And it’s funny because not only have I seen it before, but I’ve watched it several times. This is one of those movies that’s, you know, kinda just easy to put on on a Sunday afternoon, and you can kinda pay attention here and there. If you got other things going on, it doesn’t really matter.   It’s hilarious throughout, and so, you know, you can just kinda get having seen it all the way through, of course, you can then just kinda catch little parts that, are funny even, you know, without context. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  It’s it’s just funny all the way through. 

Todd:  It’s pretty cool. I actually, as you know, owned and ran an independent movie theater for a while, and this movie came out at that time. I think it was about 2010 or 2011 when that when that came out, and this just came across my lap. It was one of the films that the distributors, the the particular distributor that I got most of my films from had, and I hadn’t heard of it. I hadn’t seen any ads for it. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And all I had done was check out the trailer online and said, this is a cool looking movie. What an awesome premise where it takes that idea of the hillbilly killers and flips it on its head and says, what if what if the hillbillies are just minding their own business, and it’s the kids who were causing more trouble than good because they’re used to that trope? And, and so, yeah, I we watched it, it did pretty well at our theater actually, but I think it only got a limited release in the US. 

Craig:  It did. Yeah. I mean, it’s, in fact, I think the production was a little I don’t know if the production itself was trouble, but I think it was made and then sat on a shelf for a little while, before it got released. And then, like you said, limit I didn’t know it came to your theater because it was really limited, Todd, it didn’t really do that great. 

Todd:  No. Actually, in the US, I even have the figures here. Domestic gross, all, like, to date is, like, $224,000 Yeah. Which is insanely low. And, foreign gross though was 4 4a half 1000000. Right. So it’s really depressing that this, I guess it’s a Canadian American film. So maybe some of that foreign comes from Canada, but this is a kind of movie that just fits right in with a a genre film that a lot of American horror audience would love. 

Craig:  I think so. And I think that, you know, it’s it’s established a following enough so that, there’s a sequel planned. I mean, it’s in super early stages, so who knows if it’ll actually happen. But when I saw those numbers, I I was really surprised that any studio would green light a sequel, but maybe it’s generated enough buzz, you know, just kind of word-of-mouth. Yeah. Cult following that they might be able to have some success again. 

Todd:  Maybe it was a Kickstarter, effort to get sequel or something. Maybe. I love the movie. I I enjoyed watching it the 2nd time around just as much. I don’t think it’s without its flaws, but it is it is cute and it is funny. 

Craig:  Yeah. It’s not a perfect movie, and I would say, you know, it’s for the first half at least, it’s just hilariously funny. And that as the stakes kinda get higher in the second half, the laughs kinda dwindle little dwindle a little bit, and I found myself kinda missing, laughing as much as we had been through the first half. But it’s not boring. It’s entertaining. And like you said, the the premise is just it’s so clever because we’ve seen so many of those hillbilly movies where it’s, you know, crazy, sometimes deformed hillbillies, laying siege on, you know, families or groups of kids or whatever. And so to take that really, really familiar framework and then do something clever with it, I think, is clever and and and cool. 

Todd:  Yeah. Because you can really only go so far. Hillbillies are another one of those genres. Like, we’re talking about cannibals. Mhmm. You can only go so far with it before it becomes boring, and you’ve seen everything you can see 

Craig:  with it. So Exactly. I mean, you can only watch those wrong turn sequels so many times. I mean, what what more can they do? And and really, they those in you know, those are kind of the, yeah, what would you call it, like, the touchstone of those films, these days, and they have just gotten progressively worse as time has gone on. 

Todd:  Had did you ever see Jughead? 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  Now that that again took that hillbilly trope, but really put an odd spin on it. But that’s what you have to do is put some crazy Todd spin on it for it to be interesting. 

Craig:  That was the one with some, like, entity they had to sacrifice from the pit, yeah, 

Todd:  in the woods. 

Craig:  Yeah. That was a different one. Yeah. Well, this one, you know okay. So we got Tucker and Dale. You know? There’s these 2 good old boys. You know, they’re they refer to themselves, and everybody else refers to them as hillbillies throughout, but they’re just good old guys. 

Todd:  They’re not really hillbillies, not in the sense that we think of hillbill. And then and, you know, we’re in the Midwest, so we we’re we’re in a position to to see what the Ozarks are not far from us. We we kind of understand the spectrum, and these these kids, I don’t know, you’d almost more call them rednecks than 

Craig:  Yeah. Ones, wouldn’t you? Fair enough. Fair enough. But they call themselves hillbillies. Right. Right. And and that that’s you know, they’re playing on the stereotypes, obviously. It’s funny the first time that we see them.   Well, I guess we should talk about the opening first because it’s kind of a book end kinda deal when it comes back to the end. We open it was very reminiscent of, like, Texas chainsaw massacre, right, which opens kinda like with this investigative thing. 

Todd:  Thing I thought of. Yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. And, it’s this news reporter, and it’s going through this kind of rundown looking place. You don’t get to see much. I think it was in black and white. 

Todd:  And it was it was, like, filmed through a camera, like a found footage type thing. Right. 

Craig:  Exactly. And they’re walking through this weird place, and then all of a sudden, this scary guy jumps out with, like, a club or a hatchet or something and takes out it appears that it takes out the, news crew. And that’s, you know, just kind of a cold open. And then we cut directly to this road scene where there’s this group of college kids. Yeah. Generic college kids. Right? Of the car. Right.   I think there’s about 9 of them. You know, we’ve seen this opening in a 1000000 different movies. They’re, you know, they’re driving through the woods of Appalachia, and it’s all just you know, there’s, I think, 9 of them, which is kind of ridiculous, really. 

Todd:  It’s really funny because if you’re counting, I think they’re, like, 8. And then toward the end of the scene, 1 pops up in the very back. Yeah. It’s almost like they’re playing with that too. Clown car. Right? 

Craig:  And, of course, it’s just, you know, the typical thing. They’re you know, it’s pretty girls, pretty boys, jocks. You know? They’re, like, smoking doobies in the car and whatnot. 

Todd:  We are in Hillbill Country now, boys. We are. Yeah. 

Craig:  Wait. Chad, just because you’re not in your fizzy doesn’t mean they’re freaks. 

Todd:  Well, actually, it does, Allison. You see, you’re either a omega beta or you’re a freak. Omega beta. Omega beta. 

Craig:  I’m in a car full of morons. 

Todd:  They’re landing on pretty thick. 

Craig:  Very thick. Very thick. And, come driving by them is this pickup truck, in which are Tucker and Dale, who we haven’t really met yet. And as they drive by, it’s just these 2 kind of redneck looking guys in a truck, but they’re staring at them as they pass. And it’s that typical, you know, sinister, scary, locals type of thing. 

Todd:  Slack jawed as they stare out the window. 

Craig:  Oh, yeah. They look they look dumb. It’s and so then then, you know, they go past, and then we cut to, I think, them in the car, Tucker and Dale. That’s right. 

Todd:  And 

Craig:  they’re just they’re just chatting. You know? I they they were staring because there were hot girls in the car. Uh-huh. And, you know, they are friendly, likable guys. You know, it’s really funny. We, we were about halfway through it, and I realized these guys kinda look like us, like like you and me. You got, Tucker, who would, you know, be the Todd type. He’s kinda like this dopey looking blonde guy.   And then Oh, no. I get to be the dopey? Yeah. Yeah. And then you’ve got, like 

Todd:  Be a more intellectual, tail? 

Craig:  No. No. He likes the ruggedly handsome teddy bear tie Of course. Yeah. With the beard and everything. And, you you know, you get the sense right away. You know? These guys are buddies. They’re good friends.   And and we find out that what’s what’s going on is they are going to a cabin in the woods, that they, Tucker has bought with all his life savings, and they’re just gonna go hang out and fish and drink beer and have a good time. Yeah. And then we get right next to the next classic scene from these movies where we get the preppy kids out of their element in this rural place where everything appears super creepy. 

Todd:  It’s the last chance gas station. Yeah. Like, literally titled that. As as they’re driving in, there’s a 

Craig:  kid see that. 

Todd:  There’s a kid pumping water. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  He’s got, like, a straw hat on and overalls that he’s pumping water in the front. Again, totally laying it on super thick. Yeah. And they go into this gas station, and the guy behind the counter is completely, 

Craig:  well, I’m glad. 

Todd:  He couldn’t have a thicker accent, and there is, Tucker’s the skinny one. 

Craig:  Yeah. Tucker’s the skinny one. Tucker’s 

Todd:  the me. 

Craig:  Yeah. The you. 

Todd:  Right? Okay. So Tucker, I mean, is standing, there, and he just turns around and stares at them as they go in Todd, and they’re looking for some drinks or some bug spray or whatever. In the meantime, the 

Craig:  guy at 

Todd:  the counter is rattling off this list of items for for Tucker. And if you’re listening, because it does slip into the background as the focus goes on the kids through the store. But if you listen, it’s pretty funny the stuff that he’s rattling off for him that they’re apparently collecting to take in their cabin. One of them that I caught was lubricid condoms. Yeah. And, and these kids, of course, are are pretty freaked out there in the gas station as well, go outside to basically finish pumping their gas and pack up all their goods into their cooler. And in the meantime, you have Tucker and Dale standing there by the back of their truck, and we get the introduction of what is to be a thread through the whole thing, and that is Dale has a problem with his, self image. Yeah.   He’s insecure guy. Yeah. And he’s like, oh, I don’t know if a a girl like pretty girl like that wouldn’t want anything to do with me, and Tucker’s like, you gotta go for it. You gotta talk to her. He’s like, oh, I don’t know. I don’t know if I would. He’s, no. You gotta go.   Go up and talk to her. You know, you only live once, and don’t forget to smile and laugh a lot. So, inexplicably, he pulls he pulls us a big sickle 

Craig:  off the truck. It looks like the grim reather’s reaper’s side or something. 

Todd:  That’s the part I didn’t understand at all. That he was just I think 

Craig:  that he was just nervously grasping for something to have in his hand because because first, he had grabbed, like, a, like, a a pipe or something, and, Tucker had, like, taken it from him. 

Todd:  And so 

Craig:  then he just kinda reaches around behind him for something, and that’s what he grabbed. 

Todd:  He didn’t notice that it was a 

Craig:  sickle because it’s a wristband. Feet tall. Yeah. 

Todd:  Or a scythe, I guess. Whatever you thought. And he walks towards him. And, of course, he looks freaky, and he he’s, oh, you 

Craig:  guys, going camping? 

Todd:  Hey. Hey. Now look. We don’t want any trouble. Alright? So just help me out. 

Craig:  Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. I’m sorry. 

Todd:  Then they all run into the car, and Chad, is the guy in the group who’s a little more assertive than the rest of 

Craig:  them. They’re leader, kinda. And he looks at 

Todd:  him and says, stay away. Stay away, buddy. Stay away, and and lets the girls get in the car, and then he goes in. And, of course, he turns back and goes, see. What did I tell you? 

Craig:  Right. And then the whole thing I mean, that’s it’s already started, but from there on, it’s just a it’s a comedy of errors. It’s all about misunderstandings. It’s all about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. These guys, you know, they just wanna have a a good time. You know, they’re they’re headed off to this cabin. There’s little gags. We’re there’s no way we’re gonna be able to talk about all the gags because there’s so many, but there’s a funny gag when they’re on the way to the cabin, and they get pulled over by a cop, and they’re drinking beers.   And, Tucker drops his beer in his lap, and so Dale bends down over his lap to try to, like, I guess, get the beer can or dry him off or whatever. And then somehow he gets stuck down there. And so then when the cop comes up, they’re in a compromising position. And 

Todd:  And Dale’s shirt was caught, so when he jumps up, he doesn’t have a shirt on. Right. But that’s an interesting scene because the cop says to them, as they say, what what are you doing? He says, oh, we’re going up to my cabin. I have a I’m very excited. I have, the summer home that we wanna get out to. The cop says, ain’t nothing up there but pain and suffering you can’t imagine. 

Craig:  Yeah. That was that was kinda weird. It was the only thing that didn’t seem circumstantial. Now my thoughts on that is when they get to the cabin and they do get to the cabin right after that, and it looks almost identical to the cabin from Evil Dead 

Todd:  Yes. 

Craig:  It’s rundown, but, of course, they think it’s fantastic. They can’t believe, you know, their luck at at finding this treasure of a home. And they go in and, everything’s you know, it’s dusty. It’s a mess. It’s obviously been abandoned for a long time, they’re kinda looking around at some of the things, like, hanging from the ceiling and stuff. And, there’s, like, bone, like, like, wind chimes and, like, yeah. Ribs. And they say, you know, this this whoever lived here before must have been some sort of archaeologist or something.   And and I think, Dale says, so they must have really been news hounds too, and they find this board, you know, the classic board with all the clippings of, like, murders and stuff. 

Todd:  But but Tucker hones in as they’re staring at it. He hones in on 

Craig:  Chubby’s chili dog depot. Buy 3, get 2 free, no expiration date. Alright. Score. Right. So they don’t even like, they’re oblivious. So my my guess with the cop is that whoever had lived there before was maybe some sort of psycho killer or maybe even the psycho killer that’s referenced later on in the movie. 

Todd:  Yeah. I kinda got that sense, and a lot of the comedy comes from, their obliviousness to this. But also, it was an interesting turn where instead of the kids being warned away from the cabin, these guys were warned away from the cabin. Right. And they, almost like the kids in those old horror movies, go Todd the old cabin and are oblivious to the, craziness around it, and it doesn’t seem creepy to them. 

Craig:  Right. Yeah. It’s funny. It’s played for gags, and it’s funny. What really sets the into motion is, Tucker and Dale go fishing. The kids are camping, somewhere nearby. First of all, they’re sitting around a campfire, and Chad says that he has this scary story, and it’s a true story. And it goes into this kind of flashback slash campfire tale kind of thing.   It’s, you know, it’s a a scene separate. You know, it’s it’s kind of in sepia tones, like a flashback or whatever. And he tells this story about how 20 years ago in this very spot, a group of kids had come out to party for Memorial Day weekend, and, they had been slaughtered by, local hillbillies. And it’s a good scene. You know, you’ve got some good gore. It’s it’s fairly typical of the type of scene that you would find in these hillbilly movies. 

Todd:  It really is. 

Craig:  He says there was only 1 survivor. That’s kinda it. You know? But we get the feeling that that’s probably gonna be relevant later. Yeah. But then, anyway so tuck it’s nighttime, and Tucker and Dale are fishing. The rest of the kids, they decide they’re gonna go skinny dipping. Chad tries to make a pass at Ali. Ali is the really, really beautiful blonde.   I mean, you can tell just the way that she’s juxtaposed against the other girls. The other girls are supposed to kind of fill cliched roles and kind of fade into the background. Yeah. She’s clearly your girl. You know? She’s the one. She’s the she’s the pretty one. Right? Chad, very sleazily tries to come on to her, and she rejects his advances, and then she goes to follow the other kids who have gone. She climbs up onto a rock and starts to disrobe, and, Dale is a gentleman and covers his eyes.   And, when he says something to, Tucker that he should cover his eyes, the girl sees them, thinks they’re peeping or whatever, still has that perception of them. She screams. She slips. She falls. Tucker and Dale kind of have a little, you know, funny moment there together before they realize that she hasn’t come back up, from under the water. So they go, and they they fish her out. And one of the other girls, the super ditzy big big boobed girl, of the group, Khloe, I think was her name, is totally irrelevant. 

Todd:  Yeah. None of these other names are really important. 

Craig:  No. I I don’t even think they all got names. Like, I I don’t I kept One 

Todd:  of them was Todd. 

Craig:  I There there’s 2 there’s 2 black characters. Didn’t catch their names. I I don’t know. Not before they died. Not before they died. Right? But, anyway, the other the kids see Tucker and Dale pulling the girl into the boat. They think that they’ve killed her or taking her to kill her or whatever. 

Todd:  And Dale stands up and goes, we got your friend. 

Craig:  Yep. Hey, college kids. We got your friend. 

Todd:  Oh, no. They’ve got Ali. 

Craig:  Yeah. And it’s that sort of misunderstanding that then fuels the rest of the action for the next 40 minutes or whatever. 

Todd:  Yeah. And it’s really just that. It is the them thinking that Tucker and Dale are bad people and that they’re torturing her, forcing her to dig her own grave, all these misunderstandings from afar. They go in to try to save it, but through other mishaps, they themselves end up essentially killing themselves. One of them run is running away. Actually, I thought that scene was really hilarious where Dale is, Tucker is cutting into a piece of wood with a chainsaw Mhmm. As the other group is approaching the cabin, and he accidentally cuts into a Beehive. Beehive.   Thank you. And, he’s running around now again like an idiot Yeah. With his chainsaw still running, running forward with this running chainsaw, wildly swinging it. But the other kid thinks he’s chasing him, and so he’s running away Todd. And they’re both running through the forest together, and, Tucker kinda gets ahead while this kid at isn’t watching where he’s going and basically impales himself on the tree. It’s so funny because then then Tucker comes back in. He goes, well, I saw that kid. He must have been afraid of he must be afraid of bees too or allergic to bees too.   Doesn’t know that he’s been killed Right. 

Craig:  Until later. It’s just funny. Yeah. It’s really clever. And, like, I I don’t even know if I noticed this before, but that kid, as as they’re running, it the speed kinda slows down a little bit. It kinda goes a little bit slow mo as Tucker starts to pass, and he looks over and is confused. Like, I this guy was chasing me. What’s going on? Mhmm.   And the fact that he’s not paying attention is the reason that he gets killed, and then he’s impaled. And he he sees this bee buzzing around, and it lands on his nose. And you just see the realization in his eyes, oh, he was just running away from the bee at right before he dies. Yeah. 

Todd:  That was a really cool moment. Yeah. I enjoyed that moment. Clever. 

Craig:  And there are lots of little clever moments like that. 

Todd:  There are there are also, I think, some really forced situations in here. I think part of what sometimes this movie’s a little too clever, I think. Yeah. There are times when, you know, they’re dodging and they have plenty of time to sit down and suddenly have this conversation. For example, I think the kids are shooting at them from outside into the cabin, and they’re laying down on the floor, trying to get away, and they start blaming each other. Oh, this is your fault. This is your fault. This is my fault.   This is my fault. And I don’t even like fishing. And he’s like, you don’t like fishing? And suddenly the mood changes where Yeah. You know, they have these moments. And I guess in a screwball comedy, that sort of thing happens all the time, but there’s also a part of me that’s going, yeah, but you guys should be worried that these kids aren’t breaking down the door by now. 

Craig:  You gotta take the safety off. You’re something new. I don’t know. None of this woulda happened if it wasn’t for you. What? That’s right. For being such a goddamn good Samaritan. Oh my god. She’s drowning, Tucker.   Oh, let’s save her. Oh, let’s save her. Well, at least she’s still alive. Oh, hallelujah. Don’t you dare blame us on her. I’m not blaming this whole thing on her. I’m blaming this whole 

Todd:  thing on you. Well, you know what, Tucker? None of this woulda happened if we hadn’t gone fishing. 

Craig:  That isn’t even an option. I don’t even like fishing. You don’t like what do you mean you don’t like fishing? I mean, I like 

Todd:  it I like it okay. You know? I’m sorry. I’m sorry, Tucker. Did I hurt your feelings? I’m sorry. 

Craig:  Yeah. You kinda did. 

Todd:  There are enough of these moments that I know they’re lighthearted, and I know they’re funny, but it would be neat if they could have been incorporated a little more realistically into the film. I don’t know. Does that make sense? 

Craig:  It makes sense. I don’t disagree with you, but I just didn’t feel the same way. I mean, it’s it’s so circumstance everything is so circumstantial. I mean, obviously, none of this would really ever happen. 

Todd:  Oh, it’s a big farce. 

Craig:  Right. And so that it didn’t bother me. I mean, yes, it obviously, it was a weird time when they’re being shot at for them to stop and have a little chitchat together. But it’s also you know, that’s kind of the nature of their relationship. You know? Like, they bounce things off one another. They’re cute. They’re almost like a little married couple. 

Todd:  Wow. 

Craig:  And so, yeah, totally unrealistic, but funny. I mean, after you know, they don’t even know what’s going on. They have no idea what’s going on. They just wanna help this girl, and they were hoping that she’d come you know, her friends would come and pick her up in the morning. And they’ve got these misperceptions of what’s going on. And so, eventually, Ali wakes up. She’s been unconscious, but she wakes up. And, Dale comes out carrying a tray, and she kind of freaks out and starts crying.   He says, oh, no. No. Don’t cry. I’m sorry. You don’t like pancakes? Oh, I’ll make something else. 

Todd:  And 

Craig:  he goes back in the kitchen and closes the door, and she kinda starts to you know, the look on her face is what’s what’s going on here. And when he comes back Craig with a different meal that he’s cooked her, then he explains what happened, and she realizes that she misjudged. And Dale and Ali kind of it’s it’s cute. You know? They have this little it starts out just very friendly because he’s how how would you describe him? Simple isn’t the 

Todd:  right word. He’s just He’s not simple inside, but he comes across as simple on the very excited that this girl is, he’s a gentleman. He’s very much a gentleman with her. And then you find out he’s a bit of an intellectual too in his own way. He’s he says I’m about as dumb as what does he say? I’m about as dumb as you can get, but they’re just a lot of things that I know, like, when I hear something, I remember it. And so he sits down and plays trivial like, a trivial pursuit kinda game with her, and he’s beating her. You know? It’s You’re 

Craig:  right. It’s Which which leads to a great joke because then after the kid impales himself, Tucker and Dale come back and and she says and and Tucker’s all, it’s it’s gross. He’s all got welts all over his face from the bees. He looks terrible. And, she says, I’ll go I’ll go find my friends if they’re out there. And and I think Dale trying to be chivalrous says, no. No. No.   We’ll go find them, won’t we, Tucker? And Tucker kind of reluctantly says, yeah. Yeah. We’ll go. And we know what the reaction from these kids is gonna be. These guys look, you know, they look like something out of a horror movie kind of. Yeah. 

Todd:  Especially with the bee stings all over. 

Craig:  Yeah. And, then when the kids, they they hear Tucker and Dale coming, they kinda scatter and are hiding nearby, and so they overhear the conversation. And, Dale is saying, you should’ve seen me, a a smart college girl like her, and I was beating her ass or something like that. I was beating the crap out of her. And, he’s talking about playing Trivial Pursuit. And Tucker says, you beat the crap out of everybody. There there there’s something wrong with your brain. And so they just get these mixed messages.   They’re calling out for the college kids. College kids. College kids. We got your friend. And, eventually, they the kids don’t come out because they’re hiding, and, Dale says, let’s leave him a note. And so the kids have left a hatchet behind there. He takes the hatchet, and he carves into a a log what we have here we got your friend. 

Todd:  We got your friend again, 

Craig:  which I mean, why wouldn’t 

Todd:  he have carved we have Allison. You know? Right. Well I know. I know. It’s for the movie. It’s for that. It’s fine. I’m not gonna pick it apart too much because it’s a because it is a comedy and it’s supposed to be.   1 guy plunges himself head first in a wood chipper while he’s charging after them. 

Craig:  Yeah. Like, they’re gonna go rescue her. They’re gonna go rescue Allison, and that means they have to take them out. So That was one 

Todd:  of the funniest scenes of what he told me. 

Craig:  Hilarious. 

Todd:  It’s such dark comedy because poor poor Tucker is standing here trying to pull his legs out. And when he’s done, he turns off the chipper. He goes, 

Craig:  are you okay? 

Todd:  Half of this kid has completely been ripped up. They have a hard time pulling it out. In the meantime, he’s saying, well, I hope they don’t charge me extra. Right. Credit place for this. 

Craig:  Yeah. And during the same kind of ambush, the guy who was going after, Dale with a spear trips, and both, Dale and Ali fall into this hole. They’ve been digging an out holes outhouse hole, which, of course, the friends misinterpreted as them making her dig her own grave. But they fall backwards, into it, and this kid trips and just impales himself on this spear That he was carrying. Yeah. And just slides slowly down the ground on top of Dale. Dale’s, like, freaking out. Oh, it’s a hilarious scene.   So then they don’t know what’s going on. They get Ally back inside, but they have no idea what’s going on. The only thing that they can figure is that this is some sort of suicide cult because these kids are just killing themselves. 

Todd:  But they also recognize that if they went to the police, the police wouldn’t believe them. 

Craig:  Exactly. 

Todd:  So they are in a pickle, you know, and and the reason the kids don’t go to the cops is Chad. Chad is really getting off on all 

Craig:  this. 

Todd:  It’s clear that when Chad came out into the woods, he was just hoping something like this would happen. He’s been playing around with his hatchet, throwing it at a tree. He he’s rather disturbing. And this is another part where I thought it was maybe a little too much, where I felt like if you’re any of Chad’s friends, by this time, Chad, you’d be tying this guy up because he’s Craig. You know? Yeah. You wouldn’t be going along with what he says. 

Craig:  Oh, yeah. There’s no subtlety. 

Todd:  No. He’s pretty nuts. He’s getting off on this, and it’s Chad’s idea then that that they well, they they all wanna go to the police, and so they go back and get this cop. This cop drives back in and Chad’s like, you idiots. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And he comes out and confronts them. And then you have that scene you know was going to come anyway where they are mumbling over themselves trying to explain what happened. Meanwhile, they’re dragging the Half of this body behind them and implicating themselves in every innocent thing that they say, including telling him that there’s a girl in his bedroom Yeah. Back at the cabin. And the cop goes and investigates and looks at her and says, you guys are in trouble. You know? You think I’m stupid. But as we 

Craig:  told you. 

Todd:  As we were set up from the very beginning, there was this loose board in the in the, this is loose beam that was being held up by another beam in the cabin, and the policeman leans against it, which swings down this beam, which has a whole bunch of rusty nails in the end of it, gets it right in the face, and he dies. 

Craig:  Mhmm. It’s this complete Not before he stumbles back outside. 

Todd:  Stumbles to the kids who were there freaking out in the car, tries to pull out the Craig. He falls down. These poor kids are being brutalized too by all this. It’s it’s it’s pretty funny. 

Craig:  Yeah. 1 of the 1 of the kids jumps out and gets the cop’s gun. And, he’s he’s pointing it at Tucker and Dale trying to pull the trigger, and Dale goes Oh, you gotta take the safety off on the side there. And so the kids, stupid kid, takes the gun and turns around, points to his self, releases the safety, and shoots himself in the head, blows his head off. The the other kids are freaking out, which obviously, I guess you would be. I felt this carnage going on. 

Todd:  It’s really pretty clever. You know, a lot of horror films, it’s always the challenge. Part of what makes a slasher film, what it is, and what makes it unique, and what makes you be able to watch the same essentially the same movie over and over again is the creativity behind the kills. Right? What’s the killer gonna do? And you just have to one up yourself with every sequel. This movie has it doubly difficult because not only does it have to have these creative kills, but it’s gotta have them in such a way that they’re all accidents. Right. It’s self inflicted. 

Craig:  You know? Right. And it is and that’s the thing. Like, if you are if you are a slasher fan, you’re gonna get the gore and and stuff out of I mean, I I really think that their main goal was the comedy, but they don’t neglect Not at all. Those violent, bloody deaths either. So if you you know, there’s a good we said it was kinda ridiculous for it to be 9 kids. I mean, that’s kind of excessive. Usually, it’s, like, 3 or 4, but they kill every single one of them off. You know? Like, I was numbering going down the list, and I guess not technically every single one.   But 

Todd:  Almost. Yeah. 

Craig:  At that point, you know, Ali’s awake. She Chad is he’s got the cop’s gun now. He’s he’s shooting at them. Eventually, he Todd shooting, and they look out, and he’s got Dale’s dog. 

Todd:  Yeah. Jangers. Jangers. Cute dog. Ugly. Ugly dog. Ugly. But, like, they tried to find the ugliest big 

Craig:  He’s like a dog in the back. Guy. That’s funny. But, you know, of course, they’re worried about the Dale’s real worried about the dog, so, Tucker is gonna sneak around the back and try to release the dog. That kind of back fires and that he gets caught and chased through the woods. They catch him and they string him up. And when he wakes up, he tries to reason with them. You know? He doesn’t have any idea.   He doesn’t know what they’ve what he and Dale have done to deserve this. He says something like Okay. Don’t. Don’t. Look. I know you kids are having fun, but I am not a thrill seeker. But, but Chad is talking to him like, I’ve never been this close to pure evil before. I’ve never smelled Yeah.   Like, it steak. 

Todd:  In the meantime, Tucker’s like, I got some beers in the cooler. We got all I got probably 20 or 30. We can all they’re on ice right now. 

Craig:  Yeah. And he says this is for, I don’t know, one of the people who died, and he takes his hatchet and he chops off, a couple of, of, Tucker’s fingers. And then they they wrap them up in a piece of Tucker shirt and put them on the porch with a note that says, now we’ve got your friend. Come and get him. And Ali, who has woken up and who has been talking to Dale, can’t believe any of this is going on. She’s like, my friends aren’t crazy. What’s going on? But then she Goes outside. And sees all the carnage around and finds that note and finds the fingers. 

Todd:  And she pretty much seems to know that Chad’s behind it Todd some degree. You know, this is the part where the movie really gets I shouldn’t say it it isn’t disturbing up until this point, but the Chad’s going pretty ballistic on poor Tucker, who we know is innocent, and that scene bothered me. 

Craig:  Yeah. It’s pretty brutal. 

Todd:  When he cuts his fingers off, at first, you almost think he’s cut off his whole arm or his hand. I think that’s probably about the time when the laughs get a little lower. Mhmm. And maybe necessarily so because we’re we’re starting to wrap it up. 

Craig:  We’re starting 

Todd:  to see Chads becomes the antagonist suddenly. 

Craig:  He’s the bad guy. Mhmm. He’s definitely if there is a bad guy in this film, it’s definitely him. He has clearly lost it. 

Todd:  And you do wonder what the chip is on his shoulder. You know? Right. Right. 

Craig:  Right? So Dale goes out to find Tucker, and they’ve set a trap, and the trap’s kinda funny or whatever. But, meanwhile, that was just so, that it was a, I guess, a distraction so that Chad and black girl, doesn’t have a name, come in to the cabin and are, like, crawling around and whispering. And she’s like, why are you whispering? There’s nobody else here. It’s fine. And she tries you. Allison. Excuse me. Yeah.   She tries to explain what’s been going on, but they’re just kinda not hearing it. And then Tucker and Dale get back, and they’re, you know, they’re kind of quipping back and forth. And Ali, who is a psychology major That’s right. Sits them down for some Earl Grey tea because Chad can’t have chamomile tea because it messes up with his asthma. 

Todd:  Yeah. One of the running gags is that Chad’s been sucking on an asthma thing this whole 

Craig:  time, and he’s smoking cigarettes. Yeah. Yeah. He’ll take a a drag off the cigarette, then take a hit off the inhaler and exhale them both at the same time. Smart kid. So she tries to sit them down and get them to talk about their feelings. And in a what’s really kind of a funny piece of dialogue, she says, Chad, you go first, and he says, where do you want me to start? She says, wherever you’d like, and he says, a long time ago before I was born and she was like, maybe that’s a little too far back. But he he says, no.   It’s relevant. And he basically tells the same story that he told before except for that now we find out that 2 of the people involved in that massacre that he described before were his parents, and only his mother who was pregnant with him at the time escaped. And she, from the time he had been born, had been in a mental institution. He was raised by his grandmother, which gives us, you know, a little bit of insight into his state of mind. Mhmm. Dale tries to kind of explain his perspective too. They think they’ve got it all worked out, but, really, the truth is Chad just doesn’t care. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And when the remaining 2, the other 2, the black guy, I think, and another the big boobie girl, they jump in before any of the rational sane people can explain what’s going on. Chad flips out and, like, throws a lantern into some gasoline that he had already splashed on the wall. The house goes up in flames. 

Todd:  Burns up the guy. 

Craig:  People are getting dis you know? Again, it’s just a series of mishaps. The the black guy comes in with, like, a weed whacker or something or some kinda like 

Todd:  Yeah. Saw on a long pole 

Craig:  or something, and he he goes at Tucker with it. The Tucker ducks and and the the black girl is behind, so she gets that right in the face. The blonde who has been lighting cigarettes throughout lights up a cigarette in this big blaze with gasoline, and the the house explodes. And the only ones to get out to make it out are Tucker and Dale and Ali. Yeah. And so it it seems like that’s kind of it, but then we get into even more classic slasher type stuff, and, you always gotta double check to make sure the bad guy’s dead after the 1st after the 1st round. 

Todd:  That’s right. He comes after them. They’d file in the truck and, drive off. But because, Dale is not paying attention as he drives, he drives right into an uprooted tree. And when he wakes up, Ali is gone, and, Tucker is against a tree saying she’s gone. She took off. I tried to stop them, but I couldn’t. He’s obviously injured in some way.   Mhmm. You know, it’s weird that Chad didn’t just hack him to bits, but I guess he didn’t. Right. And so they have their moment. Again, another one of these scenes, it’s cute, but in the heat of the moment, it is awfully unrealistic that they’re pausing to have this, basically a therapy session. That’s what it is. Right. 

Craig:  What I’m trying to tell you is that you’re better than you think you are. Listen to me. That girl sees it. I’ve seen the way that the 2 of you look at each other. You know, I think that she really sees you for who you are. Who knows? Maybe after this is all done, you 2 can, date. So I doubt it. Damn it.   That’s what I’m talking about. I don’t want any more negativity. K. Stop it. Okay? You are a good man. You’re smart, and you’re strong, and you’re not as ugly as you think you are. Yeah. You know, actually really liked this scene. 

Todd:  It was a good scene. 

Craig:  As far as because, you know, it’s it like I said, it’s a cute relationship between these 2 guys. They’ve been friends since they were kids, and it’s it’s obviously the wrong time. But, you know, Tucker is is trying to build his confidence. You know? You can do this. You know? You gotta go after the things you want in life. Go get her. Maybe after this, you could, like, date or something. He’s trying to, give him confidence, and it’s it’s it’s silly, but the actors play it sincere. 

Todd:  That’s true. And, Their friendship really comes through. 

Craig:  Yeah. And, you know, they even get emotional, and, you know, it it it was cute. I you know, it’s kind of a nice little buddy scene Yeah. And I I liked it. 

Todd:  Then they go and sure enough, like, he Jengers is able to show him where Chad has taken Ali. And, of course, he’s taken her to the big sawmill up the hill. I hate you. How many more of these things can you throw in here? And sure enough, Chad has also tied Ali to a board, 

Craig:  like, classic villain style. 

Todd:  Snidely whiplash style to this board right in front of a, big, saw 

Craig:  Table saw. 

Todd:  Table saw. 

Craig:  A a ridiculously large table saw. 

Todd:  That’s so goofy, man. Because I’m not sure I just felt like I was watching, Rocky and Bullwinkle. 

Craig:  Yeah. Something like that. 

Todd:  Yes. So he goes in and arms himself to the teeth with some stuff that he found in there, some boot spikes and 

Craig:  Chainsaw. 

Todd:  Chainsaw and whatnot. And there’s a big battle between him and Chad, and he manages to cut the rope off of Ali so that she can escape in the nick of time before she goes into the saw. He and Ali are able to retreat upstairs, in this place, and they come across a newspaper article. 

Craig:  Yeah. As luck would have it 

Todd:  This is just I mean, again, I this I just have Todd fault the movie here that there’s too much of this in it. You could write it so many other ways, but they chose to do it this way, and that’s fine. But this is where they finally piece 2 and 2 together is that, Ali finds this newspaper, and on the front cover of this newspaper, lo and behold, it’s about the massacre that happened. And she sees the hillbilly that they caught and sees that he has a strange resemblance to Chad. And when she reads the details, she finds out that actually this guy was Chad’s father. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And, his mother was raped, and so Chad is half hillbilly. Yeah. They confront him with this as 

Craig:  he breaks in, and luckily Also very luckily. 

Todd:  Yeah, there’s some chamomile tea. 

Craig:  Yeah. Also 

Todd:  up in there that Tucker, Dale throws in the face of Chad, and he starts sneezing and backs his way out a door. Of course, they’re up, like, 3 stories 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  Then falls to his death. 

Craig:  Yeah. Very, very, Friday 13th part 3. 

Todd:  Yes. That’s right. The the really bad one. Todd much coincidence there. 

Craig:  Too much Alright. Now I’m gonna call you on that a little bit because just a few weeks ago, you had me watch a galo, 

Todd:  galo film. Oh, you’re right. 

Craig:  And that There’s no Every single time they the trail went cold, something magically would pop up. 

Todd:  And it made no sense. No. You’re absolutely right. You know, at least this did make sense. At least these things were, they were foreshadowed earlier in the film. Right. 

Craig:  Oh, it it is absolutely ridiculous. Yeah. There’s no way there’s they find 

Todd:  they very much deus ex machina right there at the very end when they’re cornered. 

Craig:  They find 1 newspaper. It’s not like like it’s not even like she’s looking through a box of papers or anything. They find 1 newspaper, and it happens to be that 1. There happens to be a box of chamomile tea when he has said earlier, oh, yeah. I it messes with my asthma. It’s ridiculous. Yeah. But I think, to me, that’s funny.   Like, it it’s so ridiculous that that’s funny. 

Todd:  That’s true. Again, it’s very cartoony. Yeah. 

Craig:  You could 

Todd:  make the argument the whole movie’s really been a big cartoon 

Craig:  anyway. Absolutely. 

Todd:  I’m not gonna hang on it too much. This is not the movie to go supercritical. 

Craig:  Oh, no. No. That I mean, then that’s pretty much it. We get a a couple little tag scenes where Dale goes and visits Tucker in the hospital, so we find out that he’s made it. It kinda had looked like he wasn’t going to make it, but he did. And there’s a a gag where he says, look. They found my fingers, and he holds up his hands. It’s clearly not his fingers.   They found fingers from the girls. One of the fingernails is painted. And and Dale’s like, oh, yeah. It looks real good, buddy. But Tucker says, tell me you asked her out. Tell me you asked her out. And, I think if I remember correctly, Dale says something like, no. I couldn’t, I couldn’t do it or something like that.   And Tucker goes, oh, man. And he goes, but she did say she really likes to bowl, so we’re going bowling. And then it cuts to a cute scene at the end with, him and Ali bowling, at the bowling alley. And he gives her a present. And it’s a pink helmet because she’s been getting herself knocked out over and over again throughout the course of the movie, and it’s just a cute little tag. And then we return to that bookend. We’re no longer in in, like, seeing through the camera lens, but we see that it’s the same scene from the beginning with the reporter going in. And now we see that it’s that sawmill that she’s going into, after all this has happened.   And we hear on the television that, 

Todd:  or we 

Craig:  had heard on Tucker’s television in his hotel room or his, hospital room that the the body of the killer was never found. 

Todd:  Mhmm. 

Craig:  And so as this reporter’s going through, Chad and his gross burned up state pops up, and that’s it. That’s that’s the end of the movie. I don’t you know, I really don’t even think that they were setting it up for a sequel so much as they were just doing that because that’s how these movies end. Right. You gotta leave a little bit of room for a sequel. I would bet that if they do a sequel, they won’t go there. I don’t I don’t think it’ll Chad won’t be, you know A part of it? No. 

Todd:  No. You’re probably right. Well, you’ve gotta keep the killer mystery in a sense. Right. You know, it won’t be, you know, we’re dealing with Chad again. Did you feel like the relationship between Dale and Ali was convincing? 

Craig:  Absolutely. Yeah. You know, the I I looked at their names, and I’m terrible with names. I have to write down the character names, so remembering actor names is virtually impossible. But this guy who who plays Dale is really endearing. He seems like somebody that you would really wanna be friends with, and he is the kind of guy that I think sometimes these gorgeous, gorgeous girls, if they give him a chance, they find out, you know, what a good guy they are, and you may have kind of an odd mismatch as far as looks go. And he’s not an ugly guy. 

Todd:  No. He’s not. 

Craig:  He’s not. I mean 

Todd:  He’s a real teddy bear. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  But and and she’s also the kind of girl who wouldn’t she’s not the ditzy blonde. She’s the smart intelligent one who’s probably looking for a smart intelligent guy, and, she’s finding what she likes in him, and they do hit it off. They get along pretty well. 

Craig:  And he’s like you said before, he’s such a gentleman with her. I mean, it would be hard not to at least appreciate that. Yeah. I thought it was played really well. You know, the the the random college kids played it very stereotypically, but I think that that was intentional. And Chad played very over the top disturbed, but I think it was intentional. I I think that, they were going for that kind of melodramatic thing. But with but the acting was still good.   I mean, if that’s what they were going for, they they did it well. Yeah. And those moments that we talked about between Tucker and Dale, some of them funny, some of them cute, some of them kinda sentimental, and the sweet moments between Dale and, Ali, I think they all read really well. Yeah. I I I really enjoyed this film. 

Todd:  I agree with you too. I think when you talk about choices, part of the spoof of this film is that these other characters, the college kids were over the top cardboard cutouts, almost like the bad actors in an eighties horror film, and they played that well. 

Craig:  I wonder if this movie was a little bit ahead of its time because I’m really pleased to see a lot more of these horror comedies coming out. They’re kind of flying under the radar. Mhmm. You know, they’re getting big theatrical releases, but I’ve watched several recently that have have really been good. I watched a movie recently, Cooties, about, school kids, infestation of school kids zombies, and it’s got Rainn Wilson and Elijah Wood and some other really funny people. I watched, the scouts guide to the zombie apocalypse, which was really funny. Just recently oh gosh. What’s freaks of nature, I just watched, which, is about this town where humans, vampires, and zombies coexist peacefully until there’s an alien invasion, and then they it’s it’s it’s funny.   And then, my favorite one that I hope that we watch together soon, The Final Girls with, Malon Ackerman, and Tasia Farmiga. There’s all these movies coming out, and they’ve got this you know, they poke fun at themselves, but they do it well. Mhmm. And I’m really digging these movies. I hope that they keep coming out, and I hope that they kinda get, a little bit more widespread attention. 

Todd:  There’s shades of Cabin in the Woods too Oh, yeah. 

Craig:  To it. 

Todd:  Yeah. Very much so. In this film, maybe more than anything else, you almost get the sense that perhaps cabin in the woods was inspired by this film a little bit. 

Craig:  Maybe. 

Todd:  Oh, Eli Craig, the director, this is about all he’s done. He hasn’t done much since. He may be involved in the sequel that 

Craig:  you were talking about. He is. I think that it’s he and the 2 lead actors who have have confirmed that they but like I said, I mean, it’s just in development. You know? So many things linger in development hell forever, so who knows if we’ll ever see it? 

Todd:  It would be interesting to see. I’m a little disappointed he doesn’t seem to be doing much more, but, again, the film only grossed, not even a quarter of $1,000,000, domestically. Mhmm. It’s still under the radar for so many people. Thankfully, it’s on Netflix now. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  If you have a Netflix account, you can totally watch this movie. 

Craig:  Oh, and I so recommend it. You know, it’s just fun. You know? We wanted to do we’ve done some kinda heady movies recently, and those are great too. They’re a lot of fun to talk about. But, you know, we just wanted to to have some kind of mindless fun, and that’s what this is. You know, we we sit here and drink our cheap beer and laugh and, if that’s what you’re going for, I definitely recommend this 

Todd:  film. Thank you again for listening. If you enjoyed our podcast, please check us out on Facebook. You can subscribe to us on Itunes and also on Stitcher. Share this podcast with a friend. Leave a comment on our website or on our Facebook page, and let us know what you think, and as well as recommend some new movies. Until next week, I’m Todd, and I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

This week’s film takes us to the chilly reaches of Sweden, where a 12 year-boy meets a young vampire and they form a touching relationship. Many fans herald this as the best vampire tale of all time, so of course we had to give it a watch.

Let the Right One In (2008)

Episode 23, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd:  Welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: I’m Craig.

Todd: And today, we decided to go look foreign with the 2008 Swedish film, Let the Right One In. Now this has actually been remade in the US, to let me in, I think is what it’s called. And I’ve actually seen that one before this. I had not seen this film before, and you hadn’t either. Right? I wanted to see the original first before I saw the American remake, but circumstances, I don’t remember.   I just ended up seeing it, and I fell in love with that movie. I was like, man, if this is what the remake is like, the original’s gotta be awesome. And, I certainly felt the same way about the Swedish film that I did about the remake. I don’t know. What what how did you feel about that? 

Craig:  Gosh. I don’t know. I I was really interested to see what you had to say because I haven’t seen either. I too kind of felt like I should see the original before seeing the remake even though I had heard good things about both. So, I mean, I guess, the question that I have for you is how similar or different are they? 

Todd:  You know, they’re not that different, but they’re different in and and it’s been a while, so I can’t really tell you precisely. But I can tell you the American one is a little more Americanized. The horror elements are a little more horror, but not to the extent that most horror films are. I think the director of that film really respected the original material and tried to keep it as true to the Swedish original as possible. And so what you get with that film is very much what you get with this film, a very melancholy, sad, and sweet in the same in the same kind of way. Very European style film, really. It’s it’s a great remake, and the actors in the original in in the remake are fantastic as well. And there so many of the same elements are kept that it’s almost the same film, but with a twist Uh-huh.   That makes it, I don’t mean, like, there’s, like, a twist in the plot or anything, but I guess just with enough of a different style that I think it’s worth seeing both. I think if you’ve seen 1, you can totally see the other and appreciate them both and enjoy them both. 

Craig:  Yeah. I I wanna see the remake now, but not tomorrow. I mean, this this is, it’s an interesting film because I know that it got really, really positive reception, and I’m actually a little bit surprised. I’m I’m a little bit surprised that it resonated especially with an American audience of horror fans because it’s really different. I mean, it’s it’s not your typical horror movie. There’s gosh. Honestly, with a 2 hour running time, the, like, literal horror elements like, going in, basically, all I knew about this movie was that it was a vampire movie and that the 2 main characters, 1 was human, 1 was vampire, and that’s it. That’s all I knew.   And, you know, if you take out the vampire scenes that, you know, directly show any vampire action or vampire violence, that would maybe be, what, like, 10 minutes? Right? I mean, maybe I’m maybe I’m exaggerating, 

Todd:  but Maybe 10 minutes of vampire violence is 

Craig:  what 

Todd:  you’re saying. Yeah. There’s very little of it in this. 

Craig:  Yeah. It’s it’s it’s so much more seems to be you know, I would even almost characterize it more as a drama. A character driven drama certainly as opposed to your average horror film and and your average vampire film even. 

Todd:  Like a drama that happens to be about vampires 

Craig:  Right. Essentially. Right. Exactly. And I kept thinking that, you know, kinda it’s a it’s a pretty simple setup. We’ve got a main character, Oscar, a young boy, young blonde boy about he’s 12 years old, lives in what appears be kinda like tenement apartments Yeah. 

Todd:  Kind of? Probably not. Well, I don’t know. I mean, I guess if they were American apartments, you’d almost think of it as kinda like the projects. Yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, it seemed, you know, low socioeconomic status. And he’s kind of troubled and that he’s kind of different and weird, and he’s being bullied at school and whatnot. And then, all of a sudden, at the very beginning of the movie, these 2 new residents move in right next door, a middle aged gentleman and what appears to be a young girl, and then they kind of, established this friendship. And you can tell very early on that there’s something different about her. I mean, the 1st time that they meet, she appears off camera, but she appears silently, and she’s, like, standing on top of this jungle gym out in front of the apartment. And she’s talking to him, and when she jumps down, I mean, there’s a slowness in her fall that’s not natural. So you know what you’re getting into.   And then, really, the whole movie is just kind of about their relationship. And there are these little ancillary things going on in the boy’s life, but it’s really just all Yeah. I mean, it’s hard to describe. 

Todd:  It is. You know, I found the boy to be highly relatable. I I feel like this boy goes through a lot of what I went through as a kid. You know? I was a little bit more of the silent type for a while, at least I could be. Mhmm. I I think everybody at some level feels when they’re 12, which is how old he is, kind of withdrawn, a little tentative. You’re starting to get to puberty, but maybe you’re not quite there yet, and then his school situation where he’s being bullied. We kinda jump in in the middle of it, really, where we learned that, Oscar is being bullied by this guy named Connie.   Right. It’s one of the first things, and and, actually, maybe the first line of the film is squeal like a pig, squeal like a pig, And it’s a little weird, but we realized that it’s Oscar saying it. At first, you think it’s to somebody else maybe in his room, and he’s playing with a knife. But you later find out that it’s Connie who’s calling him a pig and probably has used that on him. 

Craig:  Like, that’s what they taught him with. And so in kind of in his little revenge fantasies that he’s turning the tables on them. 

Todd:  Yeah. And that’s really what I think it’s almost all about is his revenge fantasy in a way, even when she first appears to him, is when he’s outside with a knife doing the same thing. He’s sticking it in the tree almost as though he’s, defending himself against these bullies that he absolutely is not going to defend himself against. Right. He’s the kind of kid who is just gonna sit there and take it and close his eyes and hope that they go away, and that’s essentially what happens every single time. 

Craig:  Well and you feel for this kid because it’s brutal bullying. I mean, god, we all experience some bullying in our lives for whatever reason, but, you know, this these there’s these 3 kids. It’s it’s Connie and then these his, like, 2 lackeys or whatever that are just ruthless. I mean, it it’s verbal abuse. It’s physical. And and, you know, I I work in a school. I think, my god. Surely, these things don’t go on, and we just don’t know about it.   I I certainly hope not. These teachers didn’t seem to be particularly aware Yeah. Of of all this going on. And so you do I mean, you relate to him. If you don’t relate to him, I think you have to at least feel for the poor kid. It’s it’s sad. And there’s kind of that tone of sadness throughout the whole thing. 

Todd:  There really is. And it’s interesting how it’s a juxtaposition really of the sad loneliness of him in his childhood adolescent self and the loneliness of Ellie, the girl in her vampire self Right. Who they’re very they’re much, two sides of the same coin in a way. 

Craig:  Yeah. And they’re both very isolated, and I think that that’s kind of what draws them together. I mean, initially, she says to him, you know I can’t be your friend. And he says, well, what makes you think I would wanna be your friend? So both of them kind of have their guard up at the beginning, but then they they obviously, you know, see something in one another that they can relate to. And that’s what I was thinking. You know, her thing is vampirism, but you it could’ve been something else. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  It it could’ve been race. It could’ve been poverty. 

Todd:  It could’ve been mental illness. Could’ve been an abusive family member. Right. Anything. 

Craig:  Right. Exactly. And and the fact that she you know, her conflict really comes from the fact that she has to have blood. You know? She’s got this caretaker who, I guess, is is kinda trying to help her out. It seemed to me that the arrangement that they had was that maybe he could be more discreet, I guess. Maybe he could 

Todd:  He could be the one to go out during the day. And yeah. It was an interesting thing. The 1st kill we see in the movie is actually him. He does it. And he is standing you see him pack up what’s essentially his kill kit. Right? Yeah. He’s got a gas mask Some kind of ether.   And some kind of ether attached to it, a a bucket and a funnel and a knife, and he just packages. And a little jar of some liquid Mhmm. He packages it all up and stands by the side of the road at night under a street lamp. I mean, pretty well 

Craig:  lit area, but it seems to be like 

Todd:  a public park. Yeah. But clearly, we’re we’re out isolated a bit, but not way out in the country. Because as he’s standing on this road that we haven’t seen any cars passed down, behind him through the woods, which are not full of trees. It’s it’s snowing. It’s a snowy snowy place in Sweden. It’s bright. There are cars in the distance passing by in the highway.   So this guy just walks towards him, and he says, can you tell me the time? And this guy says, no. I don’t have a watch. What is that you’re holding? And he said, oh, this is a halothane or whatever that is. And he says, well, what’s that? Well, you’re gonna be the 1st person to find out, and he basically knocks him out with it, pulls him up, hanging upside down to the tree, slits his throat, just sorta like you bleed cattle. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  And it’s odd because it’s almost out in the open. Yeah. You know? I don’t know. It’s just a It begs 

Craig:  a lot of questions. It begs a lot of questions and things that I was wondering about, you know, at first, I thought, well, maybe he can be more discreet because later on, this attempt is is foiled. Because he’s in a public place, you know, people show up and he just has to abandon it, and he he leaves with nothing. And when he gets back, Ellie is angry, with him and says something like, am I supposed to have am I supposed to take care of myself? You’re you’re supposed to help me. Yeah. Something like that. So it seems like he’s in a position of caregiver maybe because later on, when she does attack somebody, it’s very animal, and it’s supernatural in a sense, and she is observed. Yeah.   She’s seen. Right. So maybe I I guess the theory is that he is is trying to be more discreet or or can be more discreet or something, but he’s not. No. And that’s the thing. Like, he he almost gets caught that time. And then the very next time he goes out to try again, he’s pretty obvious and he gets caught again. It had me questioning, is he maybe ready to be caught? 

Todd:  Yeah. I was just gonna say that. I I got that feeling like he’s at the end of his rope, and he doesn’t have much to say to her when he gets back. He’s kinda quiet about it all, and I do get the sense that maybe you’re right. Like, this has been going on for so long that he’s tired and he’s ready to be caught, and so he’s getting sloppy in a sense. 

Craig:  Well and now see. And it just makes me wonder about the nature of his relationship with her. She you know, Ellie asks or excuse me. Oscar asks her how old she is, and she’s evasive. He asks her twice, and she says about 12 the first time. And then she says later when he asks again when he finds out that she’s a vampire, she says, twelve. I’ve just been 12 a long time. So this guy, I presume, has been with her for a while.   I found myself wondering if he had at one point been a young boy that she had befriended and had enlisted to be her caretaker because there also seems to be some jealousy on his part. When when she starts forming a relationship with Oscar, he doesn’t seem to like it, and he doesn’t want her to be around. And it seems like he really has affection for her and and a desire to to protect her. So maybe it’s a jealousy thing, and maybe when he sees that somebody new is in the picture, maybe that’s a way out. I don’t know. 

Todd:  It’s very possible. I feel like that’s pretty strong, and that’s part of what makes this movie so sad, I think, is that you’re watching this relationship develop well, and and remember, at that one it’s before he goes out for his last kill, before he’s completely caught Mhmm. He’s packing up his kit, and we’re getting to see a little closer that jar of some liquid that he has for the 1st time. It almost looks like pickle juice. 

Craig:  It’s Yeah. 

Todd:  Who knows what it is. He turns to her, and she looks at him. And I believe that’s about the time when he maybe says, I don’t want you looking at her. Go I don’t want you getting together with that boy again. She just looks at him, and she tenderly touches his cheek. 

Craig:  Mhmm. But she doesn’t say 

Todd:  she won’t. Exactly. And you almost see the writing on the wall at that point, and especially I feel like by the end of the movie, oh my gosh. It’s like, here they’ve developed this relationship and they’ve they’ve, but this has probably happened before. This is what happened with her and this guy. This guy sees it happening because it’s him, and that’s why his last kill doesn’t really go out. He’s he’s really phoning it in by that point. You know? True.   He goes by the school where the kids are swimming. 

Craig:  Well, and he’s very I that’s so weird. Like, when he’s watching them play basketball or something, he’s the window. Right. Standing right in full Craig. I mean, could that be any more suspicious? As some middle aged guy standing outside watching young boys play basketball, I think that would raise some eyebrows. 

Todd:  It it would. And and he strings this kid up in the in there, and his friends are still outside smoking. I mean, there’s almost no effort. And when the friends do catch him, he just goes into the other room and pours what we’ll now learn as acid all over his face Todd I thought he was gonna drink it or totally kill himself. 

Craig:  I did too. 

Todd:  I guess he was just disfiguring his face. 

Craig:  So that he couldn’t be recognized because hounds people had seen them together and because his first murder was botched, and so they know there’s a murderer out there, then somebody local, somebody that they see regularly, witnessed her kill somebody. Didn’t get a good look, but he thinks that people will put 2 and 2 together, so he disfigures himself. But, really, it only seems to be, well, a, okay. Fine. So people won’t put 2 and 2 together. But, b, when she comes to when she hears on the radio that this mysterious man has been arrested, she goes to the hospital, and she visits him, and we get to see you know, she goes in and asks the nurse where he is, and she says, well, 7th floor, but it’s restricted. And after she runs out, the nurse runs after her, I guess, and we kinda see her scaling up the side of the window. So we get this you know, she’s she’s full vampire.   She’s got all the vampire stuff. But when, when, she goes to visit the guy and we’re not just being negligent and not saying his name. I don’t think he was ever given a name, was 

Todd:  he? Absolutely not. 

Craig:  Mm-mm. She opens the window. He’s disfigured, so he can’t invite her in, but he leans out. And it seemed Todd be it seemed an offering, a sacrifice. He sacrificed himself to her. So I almost think that he intentionally didn’t kill himself, that he wanted to be for her. 

Todd:  Kind of her her last meal. Yes. The kids’ last meal 

Craig:  for him. Right. Exactly. 

Todd:  Yeah. The film just goes on like this, but it mostly focuses on the relationship between the boy and the girl, and I feel like it develops very naturally. He writes up Morse code at school so that they can communicate through the wall because their apartments are right next to each other. He shows her the Rubik’s cube, and she doesn’t know what a Rubik’s cube is, which is also another weird clue. Right? And and she solves it, and he’s interested in her. There’s this. It’s bordering on romantic. Mhmm.   But it’s about as far romantic as 12 years old can get, which is part of what’s so sweet about it. It is. It’s like they don’t know what to do or at least he doesn’t know what to do. And she, because she’s not really human in a or she says she’s not a girl. I really like this moment in the movie where they’re at a it’s a point where she comes back from when she kills, yeah, the man, I think. 

Craig:  Yeah. She she she killed this local guy who everybody likes. His name is Jock, and and it it seems that she deteriorates if she doesn’t eat. And at some point, she just has Todd, and that’s the guy that, somebody witnessed it. Right. He asks her 

Todd:  oh, yeah. And then they go to a fair. Right? A carnival of some kind or at least there’s some food outside and they’re around the door, and he hands her some food and says, here, have 1. And she looks at him and says, no. And she looks at him for a while and he looks at her, and then finally she says, well, maybe I can just try 1. She takes it, and then the next scene is of her retching. Mhmm. She can’t eat anything but blood.   I guess is that vampire lore too? 

Craig:  Or I I think it depends. Is in this movie. Mhmm. 

Todd:  But it’s a touching moment where she obviously doesn’t wanna disappoint him, so she’s going to do something that is going to hurt her, and and she does this multiple times through the film. He goes over at the back and he consoles her and he hugs her, and you get sort of that first tender moment. Yeah. She doesn’t really know what to do. Her arms are by your side, and he said she asked him, do you like me? And he says, yes. I really really do like you. And she asked, would you like me if I weren’t a girl? And he’s yeah. He’s what he says.   Mhmm. Absolutely. It doesn’t even matter to 

Craig:  Todd him. Right. There’s another part, another very tender sweet part where she, I I think, again, it’s after a kill. I’m not sure. 

Todd:  She kills her caretaker, I believe. 

Craig:  Right. She comes to him to his window, which is on the 2nd or 3rd floor, but he’s kind of sleepy and, well, he’s sleeping, but she knocks on the window and asks to be invited in, and he invites her in. And she says to for him to close his eyes, which he does, and she disrobes and gets into bed with him. And I there was a part of me that thought, this could border on kind of weird. They’re very young, but it didn’t. I mean, it was just kind of innocent and sweet. The fact that she just robed was just kind of secondary. I I I don’t even know what the point was really. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  But, again, he asked if if they can go steady, and she initially says no. And, he protests, I guess, and she says, I’m not a girl. And he says, well, are we gonna go steady or aren’t we? And it’s a cute kind of back and forth. You know, it’s that kind of thing probably. I had this experience where it’s like, do you wanna go out with me? Oh, I don’t know. You know? It’s it’s very 12 years old, and it’s kinda sweet. I was reading online. Now this is very ambiguous in the movie, and I don’t know how they handled it in the American version, but I was reading online that in the novel, the source material novel, Ellie is actually an androgynous boy who was castrated at the same time that he was turned into a vampire.   Oh, wow. That’s all I know. I don’t know why. I don’t know the context. In the movie, there’s a scene where she takes a shower at his house, and then he gives her a a dress of his mother’s to wear. And we get a quick glimpse of her genital area, which just seems scarred. I didn’t really know what to make of it. But apparently, you know, they they don’t really go out of their way to address it in the film, but they leave it ambiguous enough, and there’s enough suggestion that she maybe really is or was a boy.   And and I agree with you that the fact that it wasn’t an issue for him was sweet and something that you don’t really see very often. And and maybe it’s because he’s a child and, you know, he doesn’t really have a developed sense of what romance and that kind of thing is. 

Todd:  Well, that’s true. And children, people are their sexuality is flipping and flopping a lot, you know, when you’re a kid up until, you know, you kind of solidify things as an adult. So it’s really kind of true to life in a sense. Yeah. And the fact that this kid is so lonely, He you know, his his mother just seems to she’s there, and they seem to have a nice little relationship between moments between them. She’s not really there. And her dad, you know, we have a scene later with with his dad and, you know, he’s drinking, and there’s a clear distance between them. 

Craig:  Right. I mean, if the 1st scene between him, he goes and visits his dad on the weekends, and the 1st scene is very nice. He seems to have a really nice time. They go, like, snowboarding or or, like, what are those, snowmobiles. They go snowmobiling. And it seems like they have a really nice time. The 2nd time around, a friend comes over to visit the dad, and they start drinking. And you can tell that, obviously, there’s some underlying issue there.   But, again creepy and weird about it, actually. But it’s so secondary to the plot. It’s almost just kind of establishing his world. Yes. And and even though he does seem to really have a fondness for his dad, there’s clearly problems too. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And so, again, it’s just another one of those this poor kid. 

Todd:  Well yeah. And this kid would latch on to anything. You know? This kid would latch on to a cat 

Craig:  if you 

Todd:  showed him attention. You know? So it all makes perfect sense, and it’s played out beautifully, I think, and and slowly in a way that it’s very believable and understandable. 

Craig:  Yeah. I think a lot of that is owed to the performance. I mean, the actors here are great. I mean, I mean, it just seems so natural. The 2 young actors, really have I don’t know if you’d call it a chemistry, but they just it seems like we’re looking into a real scene. It doesn’t feel forced. It doesn’t feel acted. It’s and it’s subtle.   Mhmm. It’s not over the top. It just feels like a real developing relationship. I’m still a little bit conflicted. I can’t decide if she or he, whatever, you know, is it sweet and romantic, or is there a darker side to where she’s kind of seducing this boy and maybe taking advantage of his where he is in his mind? 

Todd:  Well, I think there’s a neediness on both of their ends. It’s almost one of those tragic stories where she is so needy that she is, in a way, I think, seducing him and selfishly. But in the same sense, he’s also extremely needy. The only difference here is that she’s presumably, I don’t know, maybe 100 of years old. Right. Right. And she’s been through this before, and this he is actually 12 and not sophisticated enough. That would tip the scale a little bit in the direction of maybe she’s more the predator here. 

Craig:  And it just may you know, it makes me wonder about the lore and the laws that they’re following here because it varies from vampire story to vampire story. You know? I typically, when I think of young vampires, I think of old souls and young bodies. I mean, there may have been some suggestion here that her maturation was suspended along with her physical growth, so maybe she still has the mind of a 12 year old. I don’t know. I mean, she’s obviously a little bit more worldly than him, and she does help him. You know? She’s the one that tells him, if you’re being bullied, hit back. You know? If you hit back, they’ll stop bothering you. And and she maybe pushes a little too hard.   He may eventually take it a little far, but it works. You know? The bullies in 1 scene, confront him, and he does exactly what she told him. He strikes out with all his force. He actually ends up injuring the Connie, the main bully, pretty seriously, but it gets them off his back for a while. 

Todd:  For a while. Yeah. Until Connie can bring in the bigger muscle, which I guess was his brother, older brother, or somebody was that. Right. Because when from college or something. 

Craig:  Yeah. The only indication that we get is that the the bigger kid kinda gives Kanye a hard time, and Kanye just kinda playing around with them. He says, give me your keys, and Kanye says, why? Because I wanna go home. I’m gonna get home before you. So I assume they’re brothers. 

Todd:  Well, the interesting thing I think about the bully scenes in this film is that, you know, when you mentioned the vampire scenes are about 10 minutes long, also, it seems like the bully scenes are the scariest scenes in the film. Yes. I I was keep getting I keep getting flashbacks to Karate Kid in a way. Mhmm. I don’t know if you’ve seen that in a while. 

Craig:  Yeah. I just watched it yesterday. 

Todd:  Okay. So this is good. This is crazy that you watched it yesterday because I saw it maybe a year or 2 ago for the first time in a long time. Obviously, probably a favorite of yours just as much as it was mine growing up, but watching it now, those scenes of bullying are brutal Yeah. In that film. You you really don’t they they candy coat that nowadays, really, but those guys are relentless on him to a really disturbing degree, and that is how it felt in a different way with this film. Yeah. That film is just relentlessly violent.   I mean, they jump him and they beat him up like Craig. But in this film, it’s extremely foreboding as soon as the bullies come on the screen. I’m thinking in particular about maybe the 2nd scene where he leaves the school and he’s walking. And as he walks by, you see 2 kids kinda blurred out in the background, but slowly coming towards him, but the camera keeps keeps panning with him. So those kids drop out of frame, but you know they’re behind him. And and then as the camera pans over, suddenly the bully comes into view and he stops there, and then the kid stops, and then those kids come behind him. It’s the slow ambush like you’d get in a horror film. Mhmm. 

Craig:  You know? It was really tense and very scary. And then that scene, you know, they they torment him and, like like Todd said before, I mean, at this point, he really just takes it. 1 of them holds him while the others whip him with, like, a a stick switch. And, gosh, these scenes are just so weird, not only in that they’re really scary for him, but even the bullies themselves, like, it’s 

Todd:  They’re not enjoying it. No. 

Craig:  I mean, it’s almost like some gosh. I don’t even know how to describe it. There’s 1 bully in particular who takes the switch and and starts hitting him, but then, like, really gets into it and is, like, almost crying or weeping as he does it. It’s really it’s kind of strange. I mean, I think it’s meant to suggest that Connie really kind of has power over these. He’s really more the brains, and he lets other people kinda do the real dirty work. But even just that dynamic is is grim and and dark. 

Todd:  It is. And and it’s also I think what part of what makes this film so beautiful is it’s so real. The bad guys, just like we were talking about with last week’s film, how the good and evil isn’t clear cut. This is another perfect example of that movie. Obviously, the girl, it’s she has to kill in order to live, and that’s the vampire thing anyway. And so that is already a ambiguous, evil in a sense. The same way with these bullies, except for Connie, who seems to be the most Jerk. Yeah.   Biggest jerk. His friends even don’t they don’t seem to wanna go along 

Craig:  with it. It seems like they’re ambivalent at at least. 

Todd:  And even by the end, Connie himself, can be pushed too far. Right. 

Craig:  Right. As well. Yeah. Gosh. I I don’t know. I mean, there’s also I mean, we’re kinda neglecting. There’s this other little side story where the locals are kind of getting up in arms, and, they’re angry about, you know, Jacques who had been very popular with all of them, and and they’re getting suspicious. And I don’t know how much there is to really say about that except for that they are kind of investigating in it. 

Todd:  In a very lame way. 

Craig:  Yeah. And, one of them there’s only 1 woman in the group, Jennia. Her boyfriend, Lackey, is really, really upset at at Jock’s death. And he knows a kid did it, and he wants to find this kid. And he says he wants he’d if he found the kid, he’d 

Todd:  tear him apart. It’s because they’ve talked to this guy, Ghosta, I believe Yeah. Who was this crazy cat man. 

Craig:  He and he’s the one who saw it happen. 

Todd:  Saw it happen. Yeah. But he doesn’t wanna go to the police. He’s pretty frightened by it all. 

Craig:  And so he’s 

Todd:  the one who clued them in, to what’s going on. 

Craig:  Well, Lackey and and Jenny kind of get into a spat, and, you know, it’s it’s kinda silly. It’s not really important. They get into a spat, and she goes off alone. And he goes taking off after her. Oh gosh. I failed to mention the context for this scene. Ellie is hungry because, Oscar has taken her to kind of a special secret spot, where the bigger kids go. You know? It seems like kind of a make out place or something.   But he’s only 12. 

Todd:  Right. He’s only 12. 

Craig:  He’s kinda you know, he’s doing kind of the big kid thing now that they’re going steady. 

Todd:  But he doesn’t even understand himself what the big kid thing is, does he? 

Craig:  No. Surely not. 

Todd:  To him, the big kid thing is this Blood Brothers type pact. 

Craig:  Yeah. Uh-huh. You know, unwittingly, you know, he he wants to do a Blood Brothers thing, so he cuts himself. And then the blood is dripping, and she’s freaking out. And eventually, she can’t control herself. She gets down on the floor and laps up the blood, and then she runs away and runs up a tree. And that is Jenny. She walks underneath the tree and, is attacked, but Lackey is right behind her and is able to shoo Ellie away.   Eventually, what happens is Jennie turns to a vampire, and we kind of see, you know, that that’s a difficult transformation, and she doesn’t want to be a vampire. And, eventually, there’s an amazing scene where she has you know, she’s been hospitalized. She’s told Lackey she doesn’t wanna live. She knows she’s infected, but, of course, he won’t do anything, to help her. But the next morning, an orderly or a nurse or something comes in, and is going to take off her restraints and whatnot, and she asks him to to raise the blinds. And he does, and she just erupts in flames. A really cool shot. Yeah.   And right, you know, right before she erupts in in into flames, the camera I mean, it’s it’s not a a zoom out, but it cuts back Todd far back in the room. So the whole room is just framed, you know, in the center of this wide shot, and you just see these flames just erupt and then spread across the ceiling. A really cool, effect, but I kind of have a feeling it was just a way for them to show us what happens. 

Todd:  You know what I mean? Mhmm. 

Craig:  Didn’t really seem, all that important. 

Todd:  Yeah. You could have taken that subplot out of there entirely, really, except for I don’t know. Does Lackey put 2 and 2 together at that point that they’re we’re dealing with vampirism? 

Craig:  I yeah. He he must. He must because he eventually goes, to invest he they know where she lives Yeah. Because they all live kind of in the same area, And so he goes there, and this is getting very near to the end of the film. You know? We’re kinda glossing over some things. But, before this guy, Lucky, shows up at her house, Ellie has had a talk with Oscar saying you’ve wanted to kill before, haven’t you? And he kinda is reluctant, and she says, but if you could, you would like it. And it seems that this is the point where she is trying to recruit him into the position of her new caretaker. Yeah.   And so, when Lachie comes to her you know, this this is at night when they have that conversation, and then the next day, eel, excuse me, Oscar goes over to her apartment, and there’s a note. She’s left him several notes throughout the course of the movie, but there’s a note that says, I’m in the bathroom. Please don’t come in. Come back and see me later. Yep. At the same time, Lackey comes in, and, Oscar hides. As Lackey is looking around, the bathroom door is locked, but he jimmies it, and he gets in. And she’s got set up kind of, I guess, the equivalent of a coffin Yeah.   In her bathtub, and she’s kinda buried in lots of layers of blankets and things. But he uncovers her, and then he takes a knife, and it it appears he’s going to kill her. And from behind, we see Oscar coming, and he has his knife drawn and and appears like he’s gonna be ready to do what he has to do to protect his friend. I don’t know if it’s unfortunately. She wakes up and she attacks, and kills Latvah Todd. But that really kind of cements the Todd. Yeah. I 

Todd:  think. She thanks him because he’s he’s yelling, no, is what wakes her up. And did you think he was gonna kill him? 

Craig:  I thought if he had to, he would have tried. Yeah. I didn’t think that he probably could have overpowered. This was a you know, an old old old guy. Even with a knife, I don’t think that he could have overpowered him, but I do think that he would have tried. But, again, attention is drawn because people have heard this scuffle, and they can hear shouts and things coming from other apartments. And she says, I have to leave. I mean, it’s obvious that she’s gonna she can’t stay there.   She there’s a dead body in there. So she’s gonna have to go. She says, I have to leave, and it appears that that’s gonna be it. And then, again, it’s kind of sad because then we kind of follow, Oscar around again, and we see that the bullies have him set up, or or they’re they’re setting him up. And this part, this again, the bully scenes are scarier than the vampire scenes. Yeah. When, you know, Oscar gets a phone call from 1 of the bullies and says, hey. I hope you’re gonna come to swim practice tonight.   What you did and this is one of Connie’s friends. So what you did to Connie was kinda cool. He kinda had it coming, so come on. But then when we see on the other end of the line, that kid is actually surrounded by Connie and the other lackeys and and the big brother. Oh, man. I was scared. I thought they were gonna kill him. 

Todd:  Yeah. It was it’s terrible, and they get really close to it. You know? They the and this the ending of this film and the ending of the American version are pretty much the same. I do remember I think I enjoyed actually the American version better in that in that scene. I just felt like it was shot in a little more interesting way, but it was shot at a very similar way. They created a version outside to get the adults, to get the adult out of the building. They’ve set fire to one of the dumpsters, and, they come in and kick all the kids out of the pool, and it so happens that, Oscar is only the only one in the pool. And I think it’s that one of the kids who sort of ensured that would that that would be the case is standing by.   And, yeah, the big the bigger kid comes in and has a knife and tells him he’s gonna have to stay underwater for 3 minutes. And if he does, he’s only gonna nick him, but if he doesn’t do the whole 3 minutes, he’s gonna stab him in the eye. And kid says it’s that’s impossible. And then he grabs his hair, and he puts him underwater. He’s gonna hold him down there, you know, figuring where he’s gonna drown this kid. And even at that point, Connie himself is looking on, like, I’m not sure this is cool. And the 1 kid with the switch who had earlier obviously not enjoyed it as much as he thought he would, it basically sits down and cries. Mhmm.   But they’re all gonna stand sit there and let it happen. Right. It’s that again, it’s such a kid thing where you’re just not smart enough. Right. 

Craig:  Or or you feel powerless. I mean, you know what’s happening is bad, but what are you gonna do? Yeah. 

Todd:  And, while he’s underwater, and this is what makes this scene so cool. 

Craig:  Oh my gosh. It was such a cool scene. 

Todd:  So you see some a leg go by, and some feet get dragged through behind him. 

Craig:  Right on the surface of the water, and you can hear I mean, you’re it’s you have that underwater sound, that interference of underwater, but you can kind of hear these muffled screams and shouts, from above the surface. And like you said, there’s, my favorite one, I think. Well, first, you kinda see a leg or something go right through right in front of you, in front of the screen, and then you see kind of off behind, Oscar, these legs get dragged all the way down the length of the pool. And then pulled out. And they’re right. And then a head thrown in there. 

Todd:  And then that hand that’s, that arm that’s holding his head falls away. Yeah. And it’s Torn on. Right. He gets pulled up, very tenderly and just looks in the face of this girl, and it’s interesting. It’s an interesting moment for me. I think symbolically, it’s interesting. It’s almost a baptism of a sort Yeah.   You know, where when he comes out of the water now he’s fully ready to join her and leave this horrible life that he has. Right. But also his eyes are closed through this whole thing, and it almost seems like he’s going to give up. Yeah. He doesn’t really struggle. Even when the arm drops away, he’s still there. And even when she pulls him up, he’s not gasping for breath or anything like that. He’s been down for, I don’t know, at least 60 seconds.   Yeah. It’s almost like he he would have been content to die right there. 

Craig:  Right. Mhmm. Because she was gone. Mhmm. But she’s not. Yeah. And she’s there, and she protected him, and they just kind of share this this meaningful glance. And then it cuts back to some snow, just, you know, a snowy screen. 

Todd:  Which is how it started. Mhmm. 

Craig:  And I thought that was just gonna be the end. And, I thought the credits would start to roll. But then there’s another scene, a very, very brief scene where you see, Oscar sitting on a train, and it’s daylight. And next to him is a cardboard box. And from outside of the cardboard box, you hear the knocking and and scratching that they have been doing their Morse code through the walls. So the implication is that they’re running away together, and this may be the start of a long relationship between the 2. 

Todd:  Yeah. Until he becomes the older guy. Right. You know? And he gets tired of it, and that’s what’s so sad Bittersweet. Tragic about it. But he’s clearly the happiest he’s ever been. And maybe this girl guy, maybe Ellie has this knack for hooking up with people who need her the most Maybe. Because she needs them the most. 

Craig:  It would be nice to think that. I I would hate to think that it was more sinister. I don’t know. I’m I’m a little bit Todd. And I I think that that’s a good thing about this movie is that it is ambiguous. It doesn’t just lay it out there for you. And like you said, there are shades. It’s not good and bad or or good and evil.   It’s it’s it’s really more human. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Ironically, in the vampire that she might be being selfish and trying to be helpful and and sincere at the same time as I’m sure we all have at some point. 

Todd:  Well, I think there’s a case to be made for the fact that she’s mature enough to know exactly what’s going on, and maybe the strongest indication of that is that scene where she kisses him. And we see briefly a flash of an older looking Ellie. 

Craig:  Yes. 

Todd:  And that to me was almost, trying to hammer home the idea that even though she’s a 12 year old girl, she’s not 12 years Todd, mentally. I think you’re right. So I I think there’s a big I think you could make that case about this being a little more sinister. She knows exactly what she’s doing, and and and yet, maybe this is the best place for him. Maybe he would have died anyway. You know? It’s it’s really hard to say. I was reading that the director of this film, Thomas Alfredson, wasn’t interested in doing a vampire movie, so he deliberately toned down aspects of the novel that were maybe more vampire or, you know, whatever and clearly focused more on the relationships. And I think that was an effective choice because it’s what makes this film stand out. 

Craig:  It does. It does make it stand out. And, you know, we’ve talked about really how little there is in terms of vampire action, but what is there is actually pretty good. I mean, the the first attack that Ellie makes, I thought was really effective. You know, she pretends this is when she attacks Jacques. She pretends to be in need of help. You know, she’s kind of under this bridge, and, he very gingerly picks her up. And then in just the blink of an eye, I mean, she just goes completely animal savage on him, like, locks him in a bear hug, and it’s very violent.   You know, he’s still supporting them both on his legs as she’s kind of, you know, eating him, and it it’s you know, it made me jump. It was a scary scene. I thought that it was done really effectively. So, you know, it’s not that that’s not present at all. It’s just not the focus. And so I feel like you should know that going in depending upon what type of experience you’re looking for. 

Todd:  That’s true. Yeah. It still has its moments of brutality. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And yet even in there, it’s delightfully, emotionally ambiguous because when she’s done with him, it’s almost like she starts crying. Does. And, she looks at him, and she kinda looks around, and she looks back at him and then twists his neck Mhmm. Before she 

Craig:  out of her 

Todd:  out of his misery. Yeah. And there again is a is a point where the most effective villains, I think, in a film, are the villains where you feel some sympathy for. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  And you definitely feel sympathy for this girl in this in this film Agree. To the point where you you almost hesitate to call her a villain in a sense. Mhmm. 

Craig:  Right? Yeah. I totally agree. 

Todd:  I really appreciate that it takes its time with the cinematography. I appreciate that the film puts you in that mood from the beginning, that this is gonna be a slow dramatic film. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And that makes the horror elements that much more shocking, because it’s surrounded by such calm and serene material. Very melancholy throughout. It is. You don’t really ride a roller coaster of emotions in this film, I think. You almost just have this impending sense of dread through the whole thing. 

Craig:  Well and that you know, that’s good. I mean, that’s that’s difficult to do, I think, and especially to maintain that for 2 hours. I did not think it was boring. It was a little bit slow paced. And, frankly, I do think that they maybe could have done a little bit of editing of some of the side stories could especially the locals. I mean, I I get it, you know, and it was fine. It was acted, directed well. Nothing wrong with it.   Maybe not so necessary. The the maybe could have trimmed the time down a little bit. But generally speaking, it’s beautifully made. It’s beautifully acted, and it’s it’s it’s different. And I think that it’ll it’ll have you thinking and not in a bad way, but, I wouldn’t say it’s a fun movie. 

Todd:  No. You know what 

Craig:  I mean? 

Todd:  Right. It’s not one you’re probably gonna pop in and watch again, do you think? Well Unless maybe with the right person? 

Craig:  Maybe with the right person. Somebody who would appreciate, what it is. But, yeah, it’s not, you know, something that you’re gonna stick on in the afternoon to clean your house. 

Todd:  For sure. I would highly recommend seeing the remake. I I don’t say that very often because usually remake suck. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  This one really is a different enough movie that still plays enough respect to the original that it is like seeing a different movie. It is nice to see 2 different takes on the same story because I think the story is that compelling, and it’s just so different that it’s fun to watch. So I’d recommend it. 

Craig:  I’d recommend it. It’s a it’s a well made film. Well done. Very well done. 

Todd:  Thank you again for listening, to to another episode. Please, if you enjoyed this podcast, forward it to a friend. Check us out on Facebook. We’re on Itunes where you can subscribe to us also on Stitcher. Send us a comment. Let us know what you think. I guess we have some activity on our Google plus page too. So if you’re one of those, nerds that like us who are in the Google plus, check us out there.   Maybe that’s where the action is. Until next week. I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. Two guys and a Chainsaw.

This week, we went back in time for Craig’s childhood favorite, Troll. Marketed as a straight horror film, Troll is more a children’s fantasy movie with some grotesque horror elements, along with some surprisingly touching material at times.

Troll (1986)

Episode 22, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd:  Welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: I’m Craig.

Todd: And today, we picked what must be a childhood favorite of yours. Right, Craig? Yeah. Troll. The nostalgia was just oozing from you as we watched this movie. Yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. No. We picked it for its great cinematic quality. 

Todd:  Well, that too. Right? 

Craig:  Right? Yeah. No. This is a movie that, gosh, I don’t even know how we came how we got it. When when I was a kid, we had HBO, which is like a big luxury back in those days, and, my dad would always tape movies to keep for us. And this one, I assume, got taped off there. I’m sure he didn’t illegally dub it or anything like that. But, it was a VHS tape with this first and The Goonies right after. And this was, like, the double feature of my childhood.   Are you serious? Oh my gosh. I I can’t I still have that VHS tape somewhere. I can’t believe I didn’t, like, totally run it dry because I watched this so many times, and I love this movie. I’m not gonna be mad at you. I feel like Disclosure. Yeah. I feel like I feel like we owe it to our listeners Todd be honest. So, yeah, I’m not I’m gonna try to stay your friend if you have negative things to say about this.   But I’m I’m just saying straight up, I love this movie. 

Todd:  Now you have a sister, and and was she as fond of this movie as you were? 

Craig:  No. Really? She would watch it with me from time to time, but I think mostly because I would force her. It’s one of the perks of being the big brother. You kinda you kinda got the muscle. 

Todd:  So she had to sit through this in order to get to The Goonies? 

Craig:  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. And we oh, gosh. I watched it all the time. And it’s so funny because we put it I I’ve been looking forward to to watching this with you and talking about it. And you put it in and just, I mean, it all came back to me.   I haven’t seen it in in so long. I mean, I’ve probably seen it a 100 times or more, but it’s been years. And as soon as the, the opening credits came up and the score started playing, I was just in heaven. I was just smiling from ear to ear. It was such a a nostalgic thing. 

Todd:  So it you’re saying it’s fallen out of your regular rotation. 

Craig:  It has kind of, unfortunately. You know, when we were talking about doing this, you asked me if I had it, and I kinda thought, no. I don’t, and I can’t believe I don’t. 

Todd:  I was surprised. I thought you had the DVD. 

Craig:  No. I I I, got on Amazon, and, yeah. I I I’m going to order it. I I’ve gotta have it, but I didn’t I didn’t have it for us. 

Todd:  Now wait a second, but you’ve got the VHS tape. 

Craig:  I do have the VHS. I don’t have a working VCR. 

Todd:  That’s a lot of good today. Right. 

Craig:  But, it’s it’s there in an emergency, I suppose, if I could find a a working VCR. 

Todd:  Well, this is one of those movies that I remember seeing the cover when we were in the right? I mean, it’s got that creepy looking cover with the troll and what looks like at least as a kid, it looked like a shield in front of him. Right. And you realize it’s a ball. Right. But my dad rented it. You know, and he he and I would rent movies and watch them occasionally. He wasn’t as into horror as I was, but he tried to indulge me a little bit. And so he’d pick those ones out that sort of sounded interesting enough to him that he could sit through it, and some for some reason, this one must have jumped out at him.   I don’t know what he read on the back of the box cover or whatnot. And I remember sitting down, and I don’t remember how old I was. I wasn’t in high school yet. You know, I was probably middle school, maybe late elementary, and thinking this is the weirdest movie I have seen to date. It is kind 

Craig:  of a weird movie, and I I think that it’s weird and that we don’t really see movies like this anymore. We’ve you and I have talked about this several times, but this is one of those movies who I’m not sure what the target audience was that they were going for. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  But I think that it really is kind of targeted towards kids, like, you know or prepubescent, early adolescent kind of kids. It’s got it it’s PG 13. 

Todd:  Mhmm. 

Craig:  There there’s not a lot of, graphic violence or gore or anything like that. There is some mild swearing, but it’s just the tone is something that you really just don’t really see anymore, and I miss it because I I feel like we’ve we’ve softened things up a lot for kids. And I don’t have any kids. Maybe I’d feel different if I had kids. But if I did have a kid, this is one of those movies that I would just be waiting, waiting. Please get old enough so I can show you this movie because I would so want to share it, and I loved it so much as a kid. 

Todd:  It it does have that tone. We’ve talked about that. The gate has that tone. 

Craig:  Yes. 

Todd:  Exactly. One of the other films we watched recent well, The Hole has that Todd, But, yeah, it has that tone where you’re not sure of the audience. It seems aimed at a younger crowd, yet you see things in here that you don’t necessarily see anymore in kids movies. You see some pretty gruesome makeup. Yeah. And it’s not bloody gruesome, but it’s people transforming. It’s a little bit out of thriller. It’s a little bit out of Ghoulies and some harder horror films.   In fact, I think the director of this was primarily started out as a special effects artist. 

Craig:  Oh, that would make sense. 

Todd:  For Roger Corman. And I know that he went on and he did Ghoulies, Ghoulies 2, all those kinds of films. In fact, I think he went and did I don’t know. Did you ever see the Garbage Pail Kids movie? 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  Oh, my word. Yeah. He did the makeup for that. And you can you can tell. You know? The animatronics and everything, it’s almost like a signature look. I wouldn’t be surprised if he hadn’t reused some of the puppets. I did. Did he okay? Yeah.   They look very familiar. 

Craig:  At at least one of them, I know. I I read this online. I I don’t know if he directed, but there was, another movie called Dungeon Master. And, the the main character in this this movie whose name happens to be Harry Potter. Harry Potter. Yeah. Right? And he’s got a, poster for Dungeon Master on his wall. He’s like a a horror buff kid, a young he weighs probably, like, 14. 

Todd:  14? Yeah. Probably. Young high school. 

Craig:  Yeah. And and he’s got a dungeon master, and I I poster, and I read that one of the puppets from this movie was actually recycled, from that movie. I don’t recall having seen dungeon master, but the premise of the story is it it’s a really simple story. I mean, there’s there’s not a whole lot to it. This family, Harry Potter senior, his wife Anne, and their 2 kids, Harry Potter junior and, Wendy, the little sister, younger sister, are moving into this new building. We don’t know why. They’re just they’re moving into this new apartment building. And as soon as they get there, they start unpacking their stuff, and the mom says, Wendy, you don’t have to help us.   Why don’t you run off and play? And so she goes around kinda looking around the building, and the 1st place that she comes to is this cellar. And she’s got this bouncing ball with her that you’d already referenced. It’s on the cover of the jacket. And she’s bouncing it, and she’s just kinda saying nursery rhymes and stuff, And it bounces down into the cellar. It looks kinda like maybe like a laundry room or or something like that. 

Todd:  Like a shared laundry room for the apartment. 

Craig:  Right. Right. And, she’s reluctant to go down into the spooky basin basement in the new building, but she does. And, then she’s starting to play down there, and we kind of get these point of view shots from somewhere else, in the room. And she’s looking around. She’s not seeing anything. But then as she’s bouncing her ball, we hear this kind of grunting, kind of heavy breathing kind of sound as the point of view shot approaches her, and you can kind of see kind of a weird shadow on the wall behind her. And this monstrous hand reaches out and grabs her, and she gasps.   And, that’s all we see. We cut back to the family at the at the front of the house where the mom says, go find your sister. Harry goes to find her, and he goes down. He he goes to where the basement is. He’s looking down there. He’s calling for her. He sees her ball down there, but she’s not answering. So, he starts to go down, and we see the troll, you know, holding the ball, like, and and saying the same nursery rhyme that the little girl was saying.   And when he hears the bro when the troll hears the brother coming, he kinda looks up, and he goes and hides, like, behind or in between a washer and a dryer. And right before Harry comes in, he the troll is wearing this ring, and he holds it up and it kind of lights up, and he transforms magically into the girl. And that’s where we set the story off. From this point on, we don’t know what’s happened to Wendy, but we know that the girl that looks like Wendy now is not. It’s actually this troll, and that’s where everything kinda picks up. 

Todd:  Yeah. And then the movies, these these kind of low budget films, this is usually the point where they are saving a ton of money. Right? Yeah. There’s this great creature effect in the beginning, and then the creature possesses somebody or transforms into somebody, and then we never see that creature again until the end of the movie. And, you know, it’s just that person who’s transformed. But this movie is not that movie. No. We see lots of effects.   We see lots of creatures. So it’s it’s kinda nice, the the fact that it it didn’t become that film. Right. There’s a little bit more money in it, I guess. 

Craig:  Yeah. A little bit. I mean, I I don’t have any idea what their actual budget was, but I know that it was pretty low. You know, they had some ambitions for some things I’ll talk about here in a little bit that they weren’t able to accomplish. But so what happens is the family is all gathered together, and the dad has gone out to get lunch. And he calls the food rat burgers. I guess he’s just talking about fast food burgers. But he brings it in, and they all sit down to eat.   And, Wendy or the troll in Wendy’s form opens up the burger, and it’s gross. It’s all like lettuce and tomato and slimy and gross. And she’s like, what’s this? What’s this? And, they’re like, just eat it. And so she’s the works. Right? It’s the works. Right. And so she starts to eat it, but she starts to eat it like a troll would eat, like a like a dog would eat or something. I mean, she’s just, like, mashing her face in it and grunting and 

Clip:  What a pig. Harry, have you been letting her read your monster magazines? More work. Well, it works what? Well, it works now. Hey. Bring back those wax burgers. 

Todd:  And then she goes nuts. It’s like she wants more of it, and she’s running around the house, and then the fire alarm goes off. 

Craig:  Yeah. She runs out in the hall and Did she 

Todd:  trip it? 

Craig:  I don’t know. I guess. Okay. She did or somebody did. I have no idea. But the fire alarm goes off, which gives us a good opportunity to meet everybody else in the building because everybody else in the building comes running down. 

Todd:  That was a really interesting piece of writing, I thought. You know, you could go from apartment to apartment and gradually meet people and have these weird things, or you do some event like a fire alarm, and everybody rushes out of their apartment at once and sort of bangs into each other, and you have these humorous interactions essentially between everybody. That that was neat. I I really enjoyed that. You’ve got the a number of people and some famous people over here. Really interesting. First of all, I believe the 1st guy who pops out is Sonny Bono. 

Craig:  Sonny Bono. 

Todd:  Who’s like a swinger guy. Yeah. 

Craig:  He’s like he seems like a it’s like a seventies swinger type, late in his years, past his prime. 

Todd:  Uh-huh. And then, the next person that kinda runs in is his name was Duke. Is 

Craig:  that right? Yeah. 

Todd:  Yeah. He was, sort of an ex marine person. Right. A bit tough, and and he’s chatting with them. And then coming down the stairs, cursing and swearing is June Lockhart. Right. And which was funny because it was so out of character from the beaver’s mom, you know, that we normally know her as. I think the first thing out of her out of her mouth is, what’s who who pulled the goddamn fire alarm? It’s like it’s 

Craig:  like, woah. Right. And she’s this older woman, and she’s dressed in kind of a long, kind of older fashioned, dress, and she’s got her hair all up. I love her in this movie. I mean, if She is great. If there’s this you know, if if anybody wants to be critical of this movie, I will say that if nothing else, June Lockhart is, the saving grace for this film. She’s she’s funny. Her acting is good.   I just really like her. But yeah. So there’s her. The guy that plays the dad, we didn’t mention before. I think his name is, Michael Moriarty. Is that right? Yes. And he’s really pretty famous. I mean, he’s he’s continued to work.   I mean, you would definitely recognize him. Did you recognize him for anything specific? 

Todd:  You know, not anything specific, but, yeah, he had that face that I’d seen before. 

Craig:  Yeah. I I’m kind of been in. I’m not you know, I I I just glanced at IMDB, and I don’t remember, but, he’s still working. I mean, he’s he’s still working regularly. The mom is played by Shelley Hack, who again is really recognizable, but I couldn’t really put 2 and 2 together. And I I looked her up, and she’s done quite a bit of work. What she kinda got her big break in was when one of the original Charlie’s Angels left, she was the replacement. 

Todd:  Of course. She has that look. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  And She has that look in this movie. 

Craig:  Yeah. She’s very pretty, and I I guess she was only on Charlie’s Angels for a a season before she was replaced too. But, again, you know, these may not be a list actors, but, people that you’ll recognize. And then after we meet June Lockhart, then the next people who come down are a very young and fresh face looking Julia Louis Dreyfus and the guy that plays her boyfriend. And I can’t remember what the actor’s name is. 

Todd:  I don’t know. 

Craig:  This was Julia Louis Dreyfus’ first movie ever, her first film appearance. Wow. And the guy that plays her boyfriend in obviously, in the movie, they play boyfriend girlfriend. In real life, they were dating at the at the time. And shortly after the film was made, they got married, and they’re still married. 

Todd:  Oh, really? Yeah. So did they meet on the set? 

Craig:  I don’t know. It just said I just read that they were dating. They were actually in a relationship. 

Todd:  That’s interesting. 

Craig:  And they live upstairs and, you know, like 

Todd:  They’re kind of the young Todd eighties couple. Yeah. It’s like they go jogging a lot, and their apartment looks pretty modern for the time and all. 

Craig:  I think she’s, like, a waitress and aspiring actress. She says at one point that she’s got an audition. That’s right. So they come down, and it’s funny. This is, I’m sure, the first thing that I knew Julia Louis Dreyfus from. This is from 1986, and, obviously, she’s gone on to be very famous. She’s I think she comes from a wealthy family. She’s one of the most she’s one of the richest women in the world.   Oh, really? Yeah. 

Clip:  What I 

Craig:  from what I’ve heard. Oh, man. But she does not look back on this movie fondly. I guess, I guess, a few years ago when Jay Leno still at his show, he had her on, and he surprised her by running a loop of one of her scenes in this movie. And, she wasn’t amused. 

Todd:  Well, she can’t be disgusted by her acting because her acting was great. 

Craig:  Yeah. It was fine. 

Todd:  It’s just a goofy movie, and she ends up in kind of a goofy role in it. 

Craig:  Right? Yeah. So we meet all those people, and then what happens is right away, I guess, they they sleep there 1 night, and then first of all, Harry Todd. Harry notices right away that there’s something off about Wendy. I mean, they all do, but the parents are attributing it to the move. You know, she’s just stressed out, and so she’s acting out. Harry’s a little bit more skeptical. He thinks there’s something strange going on. But very first thing the next morning, Wendy gets out of bed and gets dressed and says hello to her family, but then she immediately goes upstairs to Sonny Bono’s apartment.   Sonny Bono had just been entertaining this lady. 

Todd:  Overnight. Right. Was she supposed to be a prostitute or a 

Craig:  I couldn’t tell. She kinda looked like a prostitute. 

Todd:  Did, but I maybe she was just supposed to be one of his swinger friends. 

Craig:  I don’t know. 

Todd:  She wasn’t very amused by him either. 

Craig:  No. No. So Wendy goes up, into, Sonny Bono. I don’t know what his name is. Mister Dickinson. 

Todd:  Mister Dickinson, that’s right. 

Craig:  Goes up to Sonny Bono’s, apartment. And, his apartment it’s so funny. He’s got, like, lava lamps and 

Todd:  It’s got those, the stoplight that as I don’t know. There must be a speaker or something or a microphone or something in the room. So every time they talk, the stoplight kinda goes Right. And and flashes. There’s probably a mirror ball up above, and he’s got a crazy bar. It’s a total bachelor’s wears pack. 

Craig:  Right. And he’s wearing, like, the Hugh Hefner, like, red silk robe, and he’s just super smarmy and mean. He’s not a nice guy. But, Wendy knocks on the door. He opens it. She just comes right in and makes herself at home, and, he’s annoyed with her and and makes it clear that he has no interest in her being there or playing with her or anything. But she runs and hides behind the bar or something, and he’s mad. He’s like, I don’t play hide and seek.   And he goes, and he looks behind the bar, and she’s gone. 

Todd:  Yep. 

Craig:  And then she pops up behind the couch, and she’s laughing. Like, she’s teasing him, and she pops back down behind the couch, and he runs and jumps and looks over, and she’s gone again. So he sits back down on the couch. He’s kinda confused. And from right there behind the couch again, she pops up. She pops back down. He says, I got you now, and he reaches over, and it’s Torok the troll. 

Todd:  She’s changed again. 

Craig:  Changed. Right. So we get to see the troll, and and Sonny gets to see the troll. 

Todd:  And, 

Craig:  the troll, you can’t really say he chases him around because the actor in the suit is is a little bit limited in his his movement. It’s a great suit. I love it. I love the look of the trunk. 

Todd:  Very impressive. 

Craig:  Yeah. But, so, anyway, she pulls up her ring that she’s got, this big green ring, and, like, a little, like, needle or something kind of pops out of it. And she pokes him with it. And then he starts to go into this transformation, and that’s what you were talking about. The the transformation really is fairly gruesome. 

Todd:  It is. It it reminded me of the toxic avenger a little bit, but but but way more a little bit better budget, a little bit more skillful. But, yeah, he’s kinda popping out. His skin is bulging. I watched this with my wife maybe a year ago or so on a whim just because it was PG 13. It’s a horror movie she could watch with me, and I remembered, oh, it wasn’t too bad. And she she kinda averted her eyes here and wondered what she was getting into. 

Craig:  Yeah. It gets a little gross. I mean, he he bloats and swells. His skin kinda starts Todd turn black. Like, black ooze starts to come out of his mouth, and the transformation goes on for a while. I mean, we don’t get a solid shot of the whole thing happening, and I’m sure that’s budgetary. I’m sure it’s based on the effects that they had available to them. So it’ll cut away to the troll, and then it’ll go back, and he will progress a little more.   And then it’ll cut away, and then it’ll go back, and he’s progressed more. And, eventually, he transforms into what my sister used to call a big Todd, But, it’s apparently like a Like a pod. Like a pod or like a cocoon or or something. And it splits open, and all of these, like, vines and greenery start coming out. And, again, the effects are limited, but you get the effect of what’s going on. 

Todd:  They’re acceptable. You know? They really are. It’s moving around. It’s a stop motion type thing, and it’s filling the apartment basically turning the apartment into a little forest. Right. And that was the part where my dad and I know we’re just like, what in the world is this movie? And, of course, popping out also are a number of these little creatures. 

Craig:  Right. Right? Yeah. These little and they’re little grotesque creatures. They’re clearly puppets, but they’re good ones. And, you know, they’re scary looking. They’re small. They’re they’re kinda slimy and shiny. 

Todd:  Drooling and there’s mucus coming out of their noses. And one of them’s like a crab type blood. It’s almost it’s like a centaur, but instead of a horse’s body, it it’s it has, like, a spider’s body. It’s weird. 

Craig:  Yeah. And they’re I mean, they all look different. They, 1 kinda has, like, a pig snout, and 

Todd:  Mhmm. 

Craig:  One of them is very reminiscent of, the main ghoulie, which would make sense. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  There was one that I thought looked a lot like Donald 

Todd:  Trump. There was one of them that looked like that pig the pig one reminded me of, teenage mutant ninja turtles, the pig, guy. Bee Bob 

Craig:  or something 

Todd:  like that. One of those guys. Right. 

Craig:  And so then Wendy goes back to her family, and pretty much that is what continues to happen. 

Todd:  Mhmm. 

Craig:  She continues to visit the the other people that we’ve met in the building and continues to kind of toy with them a little bit first. You know, it’s it’s pretty innocent. I mean, she just seems like a precocious young girl. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  But then she she reveals who she is and and she transforms them. 

Todd:  And her interaction with her brother is very interesting, and I don’t know why. I guess it’s because it’s a safe place for her. It’s she waits for that family’s apartment to be the last to go. I guess it’s because it’s where she can retreat to have her home base. But because the brother is onto her, she’s essentially intimidating him 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  Throughout this process. They go to the fridge, and, she turns around and basically throws him across the room 

Craig:  with the 

Todd:  strength that she shouldn’t have. Yet when the parents call running to his parents to really alarm them about the girl, and I thought that was interesting. 

Craig:  Yeah. It is interesting. I don’t know if it’s because he’s uncertain of what’s going on and he wants to kinda try to figure it out if he doesn’t think that they’ll believe him. Mhmm. Yeah. I don’t know. 

Todd:  It’s almost like you wanted to keep a little extra watch on her. Yeah. Maybe, like you said, figure it out a little bit more before he raises the alarm bells. Like, there’s something weird about her, but he’s not sure what. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  And I might be that night or it’s a later time, and I think it was a later time, when he goes up to bed and he pulls out his television from underneath his his bed and is sitting there watching a sci fi movie, horror movie, and it’s a goofball sci fi horror movie, but it’s the pod people. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  And it seems to implant this idea in his head that maybe his sister is one of the pod people or she’s been invaded. Right. She’s not who she seems she is. She’s a pod person 

Craig:  from Mars. He keeps seeing, you know, this we keep seeing these clips from this movie and 

Clip:  That isn’t Spot our pet, Nancy. That’s something that looks like Spot, acts like Spot, even smells like Spot. But in reality, it’s a Martian. You mean Yes. Our dog is a pod person from the planet Mars. 

Todd:  Todd the screen. Right. It’s great. 

Craig:  So so eventually, yeah, he gets that idea in his mind. But but even before that, just to try to get away from her because she is I mean, she’s toying with him. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  She knows that he’s onto her, and she’s not. Early on, she doesn’t reveal her true form. 

Todd:  Yes. 

Craig:  But she doesn’t hide the fact that she’s different and that she can take him down if if she needs to. So at one point, I think just to kind of get away from her, he goes upstairs to Eunice’s house. Eunice St. Clair is her name, and that’s June what what’s her name? June Lockhart. Right. So he goes up to her house and or her apartment, he knocks on the door, and, she’s how would you describe her personality? 

Todd:  Oh my goodness. She is a older woman, a little prim and proper except for the swearing. You know, there’s a, like, a slight sense of Pollyanna’s mother in her. 

Craig:  You 

Todd:  know what I mean? She has she dresses like that, got that Victorian air about her. Her apartment is totally decked out in a Victorian type stuff mixed with some medieval things. It’s an odd eclectic 

Craig:  swords and spears and, you know, really old paintings, and it’s it’s cool stuff. 

Todd:  It’s like nerdy old lady from the middle ages or something. 

Craig:  She but she’s 

Todd:  Like, she could be a d and d master if she was if she had been, you know, 12 or 18 in this movie. 

Craig:  But she’s got this air about her, of this air of confidence, this air of she’s no nonsense. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. 

Craig:  She seems like a tough Todd broad who who can take care of herself. He asked if he can come in because he’s he said he feels like he’s gonna be sick, and she lets him in. She’s kinda quipping with him back and forth. And while he’s in the bathroom, she’s sitting at an easel painting, and next to her, there’s this large Mushroom. Mushroom with a face that, like, is it’s a a puppet. It’s cute. It is cute. And it’s it’s kinda moving around and making little squeaky noises like it’s talking.   And so we know that there’s something about her too. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  You know? All of this weird supernatural stuff, either she’s involved or somehow she’s connected. But when he comes out of the bathroom, she puts a lampshade on the on the mushroom, which I always love. 

Todd:  Which is cute because it’s like the mushroom’s been through this road before. It just, like, stiffens up. Okay. I’m ready. Right. Right. Shade on me. 

Clip:  Well, did you pop your cookies? No. False alarm. Well, then there’s no reason for you to stay around here any longer, is there? Oh, I don’t wanna go right now, if it’s okay with you. Doesn’t make any difference to me at all. I’ll just pretend you’re not here. Thanks. I feel safe here. You’re sounding like a ninny.   What the hell have you got to be afraid of? I don’t know. Keep talking like that, you’ll become an adult. 

Craig:  She’s a cool old lady, and she obviously realizes that he is in fact scared. 

Todd:  Mhmm. 

Craig:  And we get the impression that she may be aware that maybe there is something to be afraid of. So she tells him, you can come over anytime. Just knock before you come in. The door is always open. And so they establish a connection, a friendship. This is kind of a place where he can go to to talk and and feel safe. 

Todd:  And I feel like in a way she respects his attitude Yeah. Kind of his way of dealing with it that he is taking his time, he’s unsure. I feel like that might be part of the meaning of that line and why it was so significantly called out in the film. He’s a little more adult than a kid his age would be, and that might explain why he deals with it the way he does deal with it. 

Craig:  Right. And why she eventually, she she tells the whole story. I mean, first, Wendy continues to go from house to house. I think the second apartment that she visits is Duke. That’s the guy who lives right across from them. He’s the army guy. His apartment is all decked out in, like, a tiger skin and Just 

Todd:  over the top. 

Craig:  Crazy macho stuff, like guns on the walls and stuff. 

Todd:  He’s got a pool table in there. 

Craig:  Right. Right. And he’s one of the interesting things about this movie to me is that the people who are kind of, this guy, Duke doesn’t seem so bad. I mean, he’s kinda nice, but he’s also really conceited and, really macho, and, like, he’s really concerned with his looks and stuff. So the people who are kind of, for lack of a better word, ugly on the inside, When they transform, that’s kind of reflected in what comes out of their pods. 

Todd:  That’s true. 

Craig:  So when he, is transformed, it’s it’s very similar to the 1st time around. It’s these kind of grotesque, goblin y looking puppets. But then I think the 3rd person that she goes to is Julia Louis Dreyfus. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And Julia Louis Dreyfus is nice to her. She invites her in, says, you know, I’ve got stuff to do, but you’re welcome to hang out. I I could get you a drink or whatever. And 

Todd:  This is my husband. Right. There’s another cute moment in there where she’s she almost admires, the girl almost admire the girl slash troll almost admires her, and she’s just staring at her. She says you’re and and, she’s like, you’re so pretty and says, oh, thank you. And she says, what does she say? Beauty fades with age. 

Craig:  Right. Right. She she, she compliments her as soon as she comes in and tells her she’s very pretty. And then, Wendy grabs a picture, and it’s a photograph of the boyfriend, and she says that’s my boyfriend. But then tucked in the corner of the frame is also a picture, I guess. I didn’t really get a good look at it. 

Todd:  Of her as a as a young girl. 

Craig:  Her as a young girl. And she says, is it Wendy says, is this you when you were younger? And she says, yeah. That was me. She says, you were very beautiful. And Julie Louis Dreyfus says, well, thanks, I guess. Right. And then you get that beauty fades with age thing, and we know that she is going to be transformed. And, eventually, we see what she’s transformed into, and she’s transformed into not a very different version of herself at all.   No. She’s just, like a Todd nymph, Yeah. I guess. I mean, it’s it’s still Julia Louis Dreyfus playing the character, but she’s partially nude, kind of draped in greenery and things and really is her appearance doesn’t change at all. 

Todd:  But her personality changes. Yeah. And she’s kind of playful and chirping and 

Craig:  And teasing. Little teasing, flirtatious, kind of. 

Todd:  Yeah. So the one her boyfriend comes back in to check on her eventually, the apartment has like all of these apartments, I guess, has become almost another dimension where he can wander through the woods and he chases her 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Through the woods. And she’s coyly teasing him and running along, and he’s chasing her like, what in the world is going on? I liked that bit. And again, I don’t think she has except for the fact that the film is really goofy. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  She doesn’t have anything to to be concerned about as far as her acting No. Or any or the way she looks. 

Craig:  Right. She oh, and she looks great. I mean, she looks gorgeous, and I actually thought her acting was good. I mean, when when it was when she was just herself, it was very natural, and and, you know, her character was likable. And then when she turned into the wood nymph or whatever, her affect really changed. And and she’s kinda toying around with the boyfriend and kind of giving him sly flirtatious looks and running away from him, a lot of laughing and stuff. And, eventually, she leads him deep into that forest wherever it is, and she leads him to the troll who then presumably transforms him. We don’t really see 

Todd:  this transformation. Now earlier, kind of concurrent with all this happening, there’s a relationship between Wendy and a man who saves her from a car. She’s kind of running out into the street, and he reaches out and grabs her and pulls her away. And it turns out that this man is a is a short it’s a he’s a He’s 

Craig:  a little person. 

Todd:  He’s a little person. And, she is taken by this, and she stares at him and says 

Clip:  Are you an elf? No. I just resemble 1. Why? Do you believe in elves? Oh, yes. Oh, well, then perhaps I might be 1 after all. Where do you live? In there. Yeah. So do I. What’s your name? Wendy Ann.   Malcolm Mowery. Glad to meet you, Wendy Ann. Well, come along. Your parents are probably wondering where you are. Yes, brother Alf. 

Craig:  This actor, I’ve re I recognize him from stuff. He has a really distinctive voice. He’s a very small little person. His name is Phil, Fondacaro. And not only does he play Malcolm, the the professor from upstairs, but he also plays Turok. Yes. Oh, okay. 

Clip:  I 

Craig:  think so. The the the troll. He plays the troll. The part was written specifically with him in mind, but, the production company, I guess, put a lot of pressure on the director to cast Billy Barty 

Clip:  Oh, yeah. 

Craig:  Who is, you know, one of the more famous little people actors in the industry. But the director really fought for for this Phil Fonsecaro and got him. And I’m glad because, again, he’s another one of my favorite parts of this movie. He’s nice to her, to to Wendy. He’s just a nice guy. He’s a, you know, he’s a an English professor, so he’s he’s really smart. Everybody else in the building is kind of anti intellectual. 

Todd:  Intellectual. Yeah. 

Craig:  And and he’s, you know, a professor and and a cool guy. So I guess he takes her inside, and she goes home and she tells her parents, I made a little friend. Uh-huh. And I invited him to dinner. Yeah. And they say, okay. So they’re expecting her little friend to come to dinner. And he shows up.   Like Knocks on the door. 

Todd:  Oh, is it your little friend here? Just as they’re opening the door and Right. They look down. Oh, boy. And what ensues is this very awkward comic scene where she’s come out with a glass of chocolate milk for him, and, oh, and he’s standing there and he’s brought, like, some champagne or whatever, And he asked for, you know, I’d rather have a gin and tonic. Yeah. 

Craig:  He says, don’t worry. I brought a note from my mom. 

Todd:  And he kind of acknowledged that, but he’s so he takes it all in stride. Yeah. Like, oh, this has happened to me before. It’s okay. He doesn’t. There’s none of that conflict in this movie at all really. Mm-mm. Even with the jerky guy downstairs, even with the brutish marine across the way, there isn’t a lot of serious person to person conflict. 

Craig:  No. You know? And, actually, I always thought that was interesting even when I was a kid. We don’t meet Malcolm until he rescues Wendy from getting hit by the car. But when everybody had converged in the hallway during the fire alarm, I think it was Julie Louie Dreyfus’ character had said and then there’s a professor that lives upstairs. His name is Malcolm. But she never said anything about him being a little person. Like, that was just something they didn’t even consider. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And when when he shows up, it’s not that the parents are rude. It’s just that they’re taken aback. You know? They’re they’re surprised. They didn’t see they didn’t expect this. 

Todd:  They weren’t prepared, and they don’t know how to deal with it. 

Craig:  Right. Right. And he, I think, you know, kinda makes them comfortable. He kinda jokes around and Todd doesn’t make a big deal out of it. And, eventually, they sit down to have a nice dinner. 

Todd:  Yeah. And then, at the dinner, she of course, you can tell that Wendy is totally taken with him, loves him to death, and they’ve had some conversation before, and him being an English professor, at some point she asked him to recite a poem, which is cute. You know, that never happens anymore, I’m sure. But, and and his his poem’s called The Fairy Princess. 

Craig:  Or The Fairy Queen. 

Todd:  The Fairy Queen. You’re right. And as he starts to recite this poem, and is this an actual 

Craig:  I believe it is. Okay. Yeah. He starts 

Todd:  to recite this poem, and we get a very interesting interlude where the poem starts getting recited, and then we’re flashing to the apartment stairs where the witch is, where, 

Craig:  Eunice 

Todd:  Eunice is, and the apartments where the Todd well, they’re actually fairies, I guess, but they look like goblins are. And music starts to come in, and it’s a whole musical sequence essentially. 

Craig:  Oh, gosh. And I just love it so much. I know that it’s corny and cheesy, but I love it. First of all, I love this score. I have no idea who is responsible for it, but I love everything about it. There’s at some points, there’s kind of a light, kind of plinky, plunky, kind of fairyland stuff. And then when you get to the fairies, trolls, whatever you wanna call them, it gets much darker. And there’s scoring underneath a lot of the movie. 

Todd:  There is. 

Craig:  Most of it is scored. And I just think I mean, I could I could buy that on CD and just listen to it. I just love it. And the scene that you’re talking about, the bad fairies, the gross looking fairies, kinda start to sing this weird chant. 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Craig:  And it’s called I I’m gonna totally say it wrong, but cantos profane or cantos profane, something like that. And it’s just it doesn’t really have words, not intelligible words, but they’re chanting or singing together kind of, you know, in in tune, in key, even though it’s their weird, you know, weird monster voices. While Malcolm is reciting this poem, which, of course, is all about fairies and knights and all that kind of stuff, every time that it cuts to the bad fairies, you have that, you know, that that kind of weird scary music. But then every time it cuts back to Wendy watching Malcolm recite this, there’s this really lovely what would you even call it? I don’t know. 

Todd:  It’s just a it’s a melodic line that comes in. Yeah. It’s really pretty. It’s it’s it’s interesting that they pull this off so well. I thought the scene was fantastic. And, again, this is another thing that doesn’t really happen in films, you know, Todd, where you insert a random musical number into a movie that doesn’t really seem to call for it. Right. But it works really well, and it’s edited really well, and it brings on this sense of urgency Mhmm.   This sense of impending doom, but in the same sense, it conflicts with this beauty that you’re hearing and this affection between her and Malcolm. It’s a complicated, I think, emotional moment. Yeah. When you’re watching it, and the music does a lot to add to that. 

Craig:  I just love it. I mean, I I read that initially it was conceived probably supposed to be more animation in the in the puppets, but they were, you know, just, Didn’t have the money. Right. Right. Right. But it’s still a great scene. I love it. Wendy’s parents seem to be oblivious to anything else going on besides the recitation of the poem, which they’re enjoying very much.   Yeah. But Eunice upstairs seems to be aware of what’s going on in the rest of the building, and she goes and grabs a horn off her wall, which has all kinds of weird stuff on it. And she blows into the horn, and it seems to upset the bad fairies, and it upsets Wendy. She, like, chokes. She chokes on her milk or something and starts coughing, and the sound of the horn causes the bad fairies to to stop. So we see that Eunice has some power, and she does know what’s going on. And it’s it’s very soon after that that, Harry goes back to talk to her, and that’s when he’s been convinced that she’s a pod person from the planet Mars. 

Todd:  That Wendy is. 

Craig:  Right. And and Eunice says, not quite, but close. And that’s when she gives us the exposition story. 

Todd:  And Harry calls her right out. I mean, he says, who what are you doing here? Mhmm. What is your role? You are not who you say you are. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  And, she he basically asked if she’s a witch, and she’s yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. She just doesn’t deny it. So what of it? You’re a 

Todd:  clever kid, and and he’s like, oh, that’s cool. He’s just smiling. He knows that he’s in safe hands with her just instinctively, and she tells the story. And the story, I’m gonna get it wrong, but it’s basically that she had fallen in love with this guy, and he was a he was a wizard. He was learning magic, and, this guy actually turned out to be Torak. Right? 

Craig:  Right. Yeah. It’s like she is we presume 100 upon 100 of years old. I mean, she she talks about long, long ago in the in the time before 

Todd:  That’s right. 

Craig:  In the time before countries and presidents and all those things. It was just 1 big world. 

Todd:  And it was fairies and humans. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  She was the fairy princess, and, she was in love with this guy. And I guess he was also a fairy, but then there was a war of some kind between the fairies and the humans, and the fairies lost out. 

Craig:  Right. Tohrach, they had they initially the 2 kingdoms had had an agreement that neither one of them would rule over the other. They would just share the the world equally. But Turok was ambitious, and he wanted to take over the world. So he rallied an army of fairies, and there was a big battle, but they lost. And, he was turned into a troll for for all eternity. 

Todd:  And then kinda banished, I guess. 

Craig:  I guess. Well, that where all 

Todd:  the fairies are. That’s where they’re hiding. Right. 

Craig:  And that part, you know, really is kind of plot holy. You know? Yeah. It it’s never really explained why this is all happening now. She indicates that she’s there to kind of I guess she’s waiting for this. Like like, she knows it’s going to happen eventually, and it’s just happening now. 

Todd:  And she must know it’s gonna happen there because that’s where she’s waiting. None of that’s 

Craig:  really explained. Right. 

Todd:  There is an opening scene during the credits Mhmm. Where we’re zooming into what appears to be a kind of cathedral or old style church or maybe castle. Was it a castle? 

Craig:  Maybe. I stained glass windows. I don’t know. 

Todd:  Yeah. And then the books and things, and it kind of pans out of that and through a forest. And then through the forest, and eventually, you know, after the credits go, we are emerging from the forest basically across the street from this apartment complex that they’re in. I don’t know if that was meant to actually imply that there was some proximity there between wherever Torak lived or bided his time and the actual apartment or not. 

Craig:  I I don’t know either. Now Harry knows what’s going on. And 

Todd:  And she mentions that, she learned her magic from this guy named, Galwin. Uh-huh. And it turns out that that mushroom is Galwin. Yeah. 

Craig:  And, Harry asks, well, could you teach me to be a magician? Which is so ironic. You know, Harry Potter, you know, the Yeah. This movie came out 11 years before, any of the JK Rowling stuff came out. This but there are so many similarities. 

Todd:  It really makes you wonder if she hadn’t seen this film in some point. 

Craig:  I mean Even if it was subconsciously. 

Todd:  Yeah. It would be hard to argue against that. 

Craig:  Right. But he he said, can you make could you teach me to be a magician? And she said, well, I could, but I don’t think there’s gonna be time. And she explains that once this once this is in process, he’s got 72 hours to complete it. And at this point, I think everybody in the building has been transformed except for Eunice and the Potters apartment. 

Todd:  The Potters. Yeah. 

Clip:  One of 

Craig:  the things that we skipped was at some point, Wendy goes to visit Malcolm. 

Todd:  Oh, yes. 

Craig:  And it’s I this is such a nice scene then. Scene. 

Todd:  Yeah. We should talk about it. Wendy goes to visit Malcolm at his house, and this is also kinda cute. This is a different era, obviously, where parents didn’t mind their kids cavorting with adults and going to their apartments and whatnot. But she goes over to his house and his apartment and talks to him, and she’s very interested in him. She’s very interested in him, and she knows that he’s sick. 

Craig:  Yeah. She can tell. 

Clip:  Malcolm, someone asked you if you were an elf? Uh-huh. Did you ever want to be? I did, actually. And I was about your age, in fact. Maybe a little older. Doctors talking to my parents about recessive genes. I thought they were talking about pants. It’s funny what you think about when you’re a child. Todd didn’t understand what was happening.   My parents told me, Malcolm, just not gonna grow anymore. I thought, wouldn’t it be wonderful if all this was happening to me because I was magic and not because I was sick? 

Craig:  I know. I’m serious. I was sitting here. I was almost getting a little misty because it’s so sweet. And the actor, Phil Fonsecaro, does such a good job. I mean, he’s so endearing, and you so feel for him. And he’s telling this story about how he used to imagine that he would someday wake up in a land with fairies and dragons and flying horses and unicorns, and he said he just kept waiting for that day to happen. He just kept waiting and waiting.   Meanwhile, she’s just kind of been kind of circling around him a little bit. She gets back behind his chair, and she transforms into the troll again, and you see the the little thing come out of her ring. We don’t really get to see his transformation. No. We 

Todd:  don’t really see his reaction anyway. Right. 

Craig:  And I think that’s probably kind of intentional because it it’s kind of a sweet moment. And when his pod opens up, it’s just a little elfin version of himself. Very small, cute. 

Todd:  And kind of like looking around in wonder. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. And she she picks him up. I mean, he’s he’s little tiny. It’s a puppet, but she he the troll picks him up and just says, welcome, brother elf. Now that’s one of the things that I like so much about this movie is that it’s not straightforward. There’s not No. You know, Turok’s the bad guy, but, really, what he’s trying to do is he’s just trying to build this world for himself.   And the people who are good hearted and good natured aren’t turned into something ugly. You know, they’re it’s it’s nice. 

Todd:  You know, it is again, and that’s something you don’t see in a lot of American horror films or or American films for kids is that there’s this assumption that it has to follow the Disney model where there’s an absolute bad evil person who is going to be defeated at the end, and it’s a good versus evil battle. This is a lot more reminiscent of a a lot of what you find, for example, in Japanese kids films. I don’t know how familiar you are with some of them, but, there’s a movie called Spirited Away that was very popular. It had some popularity here too. Mhmm. But what’s nice about those films, and I’ll just pull out Spirited Away as an example, is that they’re really up against circumstances. They’re not up against bad people. The people who you are watching this film from an American mindset, oh, she’s really bad, as you see the film, you realize that, no, she’s not bad.   She’s just a different character, and she has different motivations, and there’s not this black and white good versus evil thing going on, and so your main character is really overcoming a situation. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  There’s a problem that needs to be solved, and different people have different personalities coming into it. And I feel like those are the kind of movies that kids need to see. I agree. Because it’s way more reflective of the world as it is, and it could cut out a lot of the nonsense, you know, that we deal with, where people wanna demonize each other. And this film does a great job as you mentioned of that. It doesn’t totally demonize this troll. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  You see it from their perspective, and the story is a little more complex. 

Craig:  Yeah. And and the character is a little bit more complex, and I I really appreciate that. You know, we’re we’re leading up now to the final act of the film. Everybody except Eunice and the Potters have been transformed. She Eunice has explained to Harry what’s going on, and she says you have to well, she explains. What he’s trying to do is to build these little different fairy universes in each of these apartments. And then once they’re all done, once it’s complete, they will come together as, like, this huge fairy universe, and that will then explode like a 4th dimension into our world, and the fairies will again take over the world. So that’s what they well, that’s what he’s trying to do, and they have only this remaining day.   You know? They’re at the end of this 2 72 hour period to stop it. She gives him this big golden spear and says 

Clip:  Here. Plunge this weapon deep into the heart of Torok’s universe. And where can I find that? Well, Torok has always been a little melodramatic, so just look for the biggest, most powerful creature you can find. 

Craig:  So she said, just look for something big and scary and not happy to see you, and you’ll know it when you see it. So he goes downstairs, and he’s waiting. Meanwhile, as soon as he leaves Todd, I’ve said this now 4 or 5 times. Another one of my favorite parts of the movie. 

Todd:  How many favorite parts do you have, Kyle? 

Craig:  They’re all my favorite parts. She, she walks in front of she has shown him before that one of the paintings on her wall is of her younger self with Torok in his human form or or human like form. I think they were fairies, but they looked like humans. And in the photograph, obviously, a and then she starts pulling the pins out of her hair. She’s had her her hair’s gray. She’s had it up in kind of this loose updo throughout very matronly, and down fall these beautiful golden cascading locks, and she turns around, and all of a sudden, she’s again the youthful woman from the painting. Yes. When I was a kid, I was blown away by that scene because I thought, how did they do that? How did they make her look so young? It’s amazing. 

Todd:  And you might have put 2 and 2 together now that that may be June Lockhart’s daughter. 

Craig:  I well, they have the same last name. I mean, that would be a major coincidence. It’s Anne Lockhart is Lockhart is the actress that plays her younger self, and they do look strikingly similar. 

Todd:  Yep. Yep. 

Craig:  So I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if it was. And from that point on, Anne Lockhart takes over the role, but it’s a really smooth transition. I mean, it it feels the like the same character. 

Todd:  It’s surprising. There must be a cut in there, but I didn’t really detect it. I guess maybe because I wasn’t expecting it. Yeah. It comes right at you. I’m like, woah. Yeah. It it it’s it’s pretty effective. 

Craig:  Yeah. So she arms herself with one of those spears too, and she goes out looking for Torak. And, again, she’s just this no she’s no nonsense. It’s hilarious. She’s you know, he in the this forest, which by now is expansive, I mean, it’s it’s large. There’s wind blowing. The the trees are blowing in the wind. And she’s walking through, and her long hair is flying in her face, and she’s trying to bat it away.   And, eventually, she just stops where she is and says, oh, stop it. And the wind quits. And the wind quits. And then she says, well, that’s better. 

Todd:  It’s moments like that that that happen frequently through this movie. These moments of comedy where you know you’re not gonna be taking this too seriously, you know. It’s it’s aimed towards children in a way Yeah. That at any point where it seems like it’s going to get too scary, it’s interspersed with these moments of comedy Uh-huh. That take the tone down a bit. 

Craig:  Yeah. It’s it’s it’s funny. I mean, it’s it’s not an outright comedy, but there are moments of light, you know, light natured stuff. There’s 1 scene that we skipped where the dad just does this big dance. 

Todd:  The goofiest, weirdest dance sequence that It is. If anybody was gonna be embarrassed to go on Leno and have a clip replay back to that guy’s clip. Exactly. 

Craig:  You know, I had read that, the guy that plays the dad, on one of the 1st days of filming, he went to the director and said, I don’t understand my character. I I don’t I don’t get it. And the director just grabbed this goofy floppy hat that the dad ends up wearing through a large part of the movie off like a a production assistant or something and plops it on his head. And, the actor said, well, I look ridiculous. And the director just looked at him. He said, so he’s just ridiculous? Yep. And that’s he kinda plays that, and it’s funny. It’s fun. 

Todd:  Well, it’s honestly the only way that this guy could be, so oblivious to what’s going on and Right. So she goes out and, gets approached by this monster. We don’t actually see the monster yet. It’s a POV shot, but we can see there’s a big monster coming. Rips that staff away, her magic staff, and then cut away. 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Now she had given another magic staff to Harry. Harry, and Harry, meanwhile, I think, was setting up shop downstairs waiting. And at some point, the parents get up and go to the door because there’s some banging on the door. 

Craig:  Well, Harry leaves first. 

Todd:  He does leave. 

Craig:  That’s right. Know if he hears something outside or what. At this point, the vegetation and all that stuff is now spilling out into the hallway. 

Todd:  That’s right. Is it this point too where it’s coming outside as well? 

Craig:  I I believe so. Yeah. People across 

Todd:  the street are seeing this craziness going on. There’s a bit of a crowd around the oh, power my comp apartment. 

Craig:  Right. And these huge vines are, like, coming out of the roof, and it doesn’t look real at all. I mean, it’s stop motion stuff, but, you know, it’s it’s reminiscent of the old monster movies, Godzilla, those types of things. Harry goes out looking, and he he knocks on Eunice’s door, and it swings open. And, like, I guess, the wind suction pulls him in, and he falls to the ground. And he falls next to this little Stump. Stump, like a little tree stump. And it starts talking to him, and it’s Eunice.   And he says, you’re on your own, kid. 

Todd:  That is so funny. That was the most brilliant comedy in this movie. Some of it’s goofy. Some of it’s a little corny, but that was spot on hilarious. 

Craig:  Right. And, you know, he’s upset, but she’s just go out there and find your sister. So he goes, and he’s looking around, and it doesn’t take him long. He finds her. 

Todd:  Yep. 

Craig:  She’s in, like, a kinda like a snow white glass coffin 

Todd:  kind of thing. The middle of the woods. It’s very, very fairy tale esque. 

Craig:  Right. The as the whole movie is. Mhmm. And, he goes the top of it is kind of glowing in, you know, kind of a cheap special effects kind of way, which we’ve seen these effects throughout. But he goes to touch it, and it shocks him. But then he’s got that magic spear, so he thinks he touches that to the Todd, and that breaks the spell apparently. Meanwhile, we know. He doesn’t know, but Turok is watching all this kind of from a safe distance.   And, he he he tries to wake Wendy up, but she doesn’t wake immediately. So he picks her up, and that’s when the big monster appears. And this is kinda funny. And, you know, watching it as an adult, I can look at it with a critical eye. I appreciate what they were trying to do. They wanted this to be the big monster, and so they’re shooting it from a super low angle. That’s right. A super low angle so that it looks like it’s towering over the camera.   And they try to maintain that, but as it gets closer to the children, it becomes really apparent that it’s just a normal sized guy in a suit. 

Todd:  Yeah. They’re clearly cutting away from it pretty quickly so that you don’t see that and trying to get some close ups on their face and some really high POV shots from the monster on the kid. Right. But it’s it’s unfortunately pretty Yeah. 

Craig:  I mean, it’s pretty clear if if you’ve got any kind of discerning eye at all. But Meanwhile, the parents are downstairs. They hear something weird outside. They more great comedy. The mom opens the door, and here’s a bunch of these evil little fairy trolls just kind of hanging out, like, right outside the door just looking at her. Yeah. And so she closes the door and, 

Todd:  gets her husband over. 

Craig:  Honey. And he comes over and, opens the door. And then the the tree stump Eunice is right outside their door, and she said 

Clip:  Shut that damn door. He can’t take over if you keep him out of your home. I don’t know, but I’m listening to the 

Todd:  tree. Oh, 

Craig:  gosh. So funny. Harry and Wendy are now in the forest. They’re running from this monster. Turok is watching, and the monster is kind of, like, attacking both of the kids. 

Todd:  With, like, throwing throwing the murders at them. 

Craig:  Stuff. Yeah. And Torok starts saying, no. No. 

Todd:  Because he doesn’t want the girl to be hung. 

Craig:  He doesn’t want the girl. We didn’t explain this. Eunice explained. You know? Harriet asked her, you know, where’s where’s Wendy? Is she okay? And he said, yeah. I don’t know where she is, but she’s alive. Because when he takes over the world and and gets rid of all the rest of the humans, he’s gonna keep one perfect specimen who’s gonna be the the princess of the fairies. Yep. So, Torok is saying, no.   No. Not the girl, but the monster is still approaching the girl. It looks like it’s going to, harm her, kill her, whatever. And so Tork himself again, in one of these moments where he’s not entirely villainous, he himself throws the spear and kills the monster, saves the girl, and Shuts down his whole plan. Shuts down his whole plan. 

Todd:  Basically. 

Craig:  Yeah. The I mean, everything starts shaking. There’s, like, these magical electrical bolts, like, flying through the air. Harry and Wendy run out and and get out and run downstairs and get home. The the whole building is shaking again. You said those people outside are seeing all these vines, writhing around in the top of the building. When Harry and Wendy get back in the apartment, they slam the door, and everything stops. And they look outside.   Everything seems normal. 

Todd:  And they move. 

Craig:  And they move. Which, gosh, you know, don’t you wish people in these types of movies were that smart all the time? 

Todd:  That’s right. We’re getting out of here. The police are like, you can file file that report down the road. 

Craig:  Yeah. And that’s okay. And then 

Todd:  you get your final little little clincher ending where the cops are probing through the house. What what do you think that could be? I don’t know. Let let’s go check things out, and one of them goes down back into the laundry room, opens up a door, and it’s into the forest. He gets sucked out and the door slams. 

Craig:  And right. And Turok’s in there, and you just see him hold up his ring. 

Todd:  His ring right in his face. Yeah. 

Craig:  And that’s it. And that’s the end of the movie. So what do you think? 

Todd:  You know, it was set up for a sequel. It’s interesting that they didn’t do a proper sequel to this movie. Right. Right? There was a movie called Troll two. It has nothing to do with this film. 

Craig:  To do. No. They’re just trying to cash in, which I don’t. This movie, I can’t imagine it was that popular. 

Todd:  It did make back what it what it earned, probably almost double anyway. It made, like, 1,000,000 or one and a half. I think it costs anywhere from 700,000 to $1,000,000, and I guess it was popular enough for somebody to try to ride on its coattails, Patrol 2. But, yeah, it’s, again, one of those films that’s gonna have a fairly limited audience. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  It’s not gonna be the Goonies of its day because it’s honestly too low budget, and although it’s cute and it had a lot of great acting and some famous actors and things in it, it just it just is missing that level professionalism, I guess. Right. The story is very simple Mhmm. 

Craig:  And 

Todd:  it moves very slowly. 

Clip:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And, yeah. I don’t know. I don’t I guess there’s probably not a lot places you can go with it after that. Right. That we didn’t even mention that the kid, who played, Harry. Harry was from, The Never Ending Story. 

Craig:  Right. Noah Hathaway. And I guess play the trainee. 

Todd:  I guess yes. And I guess the director was impressed with him in that film and, decided to cast him in this one. So, I mean, it’s not for lack of, I guess, star power. 

Craig:  Or It’s just kind of a weird niche movie. You know? It’s it’s I was reading, you know, user comments, and that was one of the things that, I I read. You know? People were questioning, who was this made for? You know? It it doesn’t seem to be specifically for adults or specifically for kids, and I think it’s just because it’s it’s from a bygone era in in filmmaking. I just don’t think we see these types of movies very much at all anymore. 

Todd:  Cloud House, I think, was the one that he said was also in this vein. 

Craig:  We and I would argue that that’s scarier. 

Todd:  It’s definitely scarier. This is more fantasy, really. 

Craig:  Yeah. It’s it’s like a fairy tale. Mhmm. Okay? Which I think is really appealing and really endearing. 

Todd:  And it has backstory. It’s really quite nice. And if this had been made by Spielberg and had a bigger budget, I think it probably would have spawned a sequel. It probably would have 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  Been better remembered and wouldn’t have been relegated to the horror shelves. And that might be part of the problem with it too is that it seems like all the materials, all of the posters, which are, you know, on the on the box cover and everything, we’re really marketing this as a horror film, and that may have been a mistake. 

Craig:  Yeah. Maybe. 

Todd:  But the gate was marketed the same way. I mean, it’s just spooky, and it’s just as sort of lost to time as this film is. Yeah. 

Craig:  I mean, it’s it’s kind of similar in tone to something like legend, which, you know, is is very fantastical, but has its definite scary moments. Even something like labyrinth, it’s darker. You know, the the puppets and things are a little bit scarier. They’re not as cute. Yeah. But but similar in tone. We just you know, you don’t see that too much anymore, which is too bad. There have been talks for years years about remaking this movie.   Mhmm. At one point, it was in preproduction. Ali Lohan, of all people, was connected to it. It was supposed to be a vehicle for her. Wow. I I think that it’s kinda dead in the water right now, but I’d be interested in seeing a remake. 

Todd:  I think this is a movie right for remake. I don’t have the nostalgic feelings about it that you do. I can see though I can I I have enough imagination? I could put myself back as a kid in the eighties, and if this had been in our rotation when we were young enough, this would have been a family favorite. Absolutely would have been. 

Craig:  Yeah. And and like I said, I would watch it back to back with The Goonies and, they they’re they’re kinda similar in Todd, even those 2 movies. I the Goonies was just on the TV on TV the other day, and I was watching it, and it’s got a really intricate score. And I thought, you gosh. This score is almost similar Todd, Troll. No wonder I was so comfortable watching them back to back. And I rec I recommend it. If you’re if you’re having a a marathon night, go go for both of them.   They’re both they’re both fun. 

Todd:  So now as an adult, you know, I know you don’t wanna be critical about the film it’s gonna kill your it’s gonna ruin all your memories and your fantasies, but you mentioned a few things that, oh, that’s a little cheesy. That’s a little pokey. Do do you still like it as much? 

Craig:  I do. I mean, it’s it’s it’s it’s nostalgia. I mean, that’s that’s what it is. But I I I just think it’s a good movie. It entertains me. It’s simple. It’s not, you know, it’s not gonna leave you trying to work out problems in your mind or anything. 

Todd:  That’s true. 

Craig:  It’s it’s kinda like you know, it’s like and and I think part of the reason I liked it so much as a kid is it because it is imaginative. It’s creative and fantasy, and, it’s not based in reality, and it’s not too scary. I mean, I’ve got, a little niece and nephew, and and they’re, I think, 7 and 4. That’s too young. I I think, you know, there’s there’s stuff in here that’s spooky enough that little kids might struggle with it, but, yeah, I I I I get it. I I can recognize its flaws, and I I just don’t care. In fact, if anything, that adds to the charm. Well, before we, sign out, I just wanted to say something really quick.   This was, a rough week for me. My best friend, my dog, Jack, passed away this week. And, I’ve I had him since he was a puppy, and, he he became an old man. I I kinda feel like he was my 1st grown up thing that I did. You know? I I got a job, and I thought, I’m responsible now. I can take care of this. And he’s been with us for a really long time, and and this last year has been rough for him. We knew we probably didn’t have a lot of time left earlier this week.   1 morning, I think that he had kind of waited for us to wake up, and, he just, went very peacefully in our arms. It was it was really, really tough for me. I mean, it still is. I am not I’m not done grieving that yet, but I I was glad that we decided to do this movie. It’s fun. It’s it’s, not something that’s gonna you know, it’s a a good memory for me. It makes me feel good. So I wanna dedicate this episode to, my dog, Jack.   Wherever he is, I hope that he’s happy and having a good time, but, I sure do miss him. So, this one’s for you, Jack. 

Todd:  Oh, he’s probably out there chasing those trolls to the forest. 

Craig:  I hope so. I hope so. 

Todd:  Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. You can subscribe to us on Itunes or Stitcher. Check out our Facebook page. Leave us a comment. Leave us some suggestions for other films to do. Until next week, this is Todd And this is Craig. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

This classic established Lucio Fulci as one of Italy’s most popular horror directors during the 70’s. Alternatively titled just plain “Zombie,” it was intended as a spiritual successor to Dawn of the Dead. We thought it succeeded.

Zombi 2 (1979)

Episode 21, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd:  Welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: I’m Craig.

Todd: Couple weeks ago, we saw an Italian horror film by Dario Argento called Deep Red. And so after our really heavy movie that we had last week 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  We thought we’d take a break and go for a little more popcorn this time going with another notorious Italian film, zombie 2, or at least that’s what it’s called in Italian. This one not by Argento, but by one of his peers, Lucio Fulci. Fulci, really, before he did this film, he did a lot of comedy, actually. He did probably 10, 12 or so comedy films, really didn’t get anywhere with them, did a couple, giallo type pictures, and then ended up with this film in his lap. This film was intended as a sort of sequel of sorts cashing in on the dawn of the dead. Right. Dawn of the dead came out. This is a 1979 movie.   I believe dawn of the dead was what? 78, 77. I don’t remember. And dawn of the dead was released in Italy under the title zombie. And it was actually interesting because it was recut for the Italian market by Dario Argento. Interesting. Yeah. And he even rescored it using goblin. You know what? That is a movie I would actually like to see.   Like, the, yeah, the Italian version of, of dawn of the dead. Yeah. And, so this movie had actually already been written, but they dropped this in Fulci’s lab, and it became a very 

Craig:  big hit. And it 

Todd:  dropped this in Fochi’s lap, and it became a very big hit. And it pretty much cemented the rest of Fochi’s career as a straight out horror director. So he got very well known more for horror than giallo or any of his other pictures, and his take on it was to go really gross. He was very into the blood, the gore, really zooming in on it even more than we saw, like, Argento, yeah, I know the other day. So this, I I like this film a lot, but it’s not a perfect film. No. No. By any means, I mean but there are just elements about it I like.   Yeah. You’d never seen this before. Right, Craig? 

Craig:  No. I kinda heard of it. You know, it’s it’s one of those kind of obscure titles that I’ve seen on lots of lists and things, but, no, I I had never seen anything. It’s funny. You had told me maybe not to read too much about it because there were some some surprising scenes. And I I you know, watching the movie, I knew what scene you were talking about, and we’ll we’ll get there. It’s it’s really what makes this movie kinda stand out from your typical fare, but, yeah, it’s it’s just kind of an old school zombie film. It’s funny that it’s not a direct sequel to dawn of the dead because it really easily could be.   I mean, it it’s close enough. It’s very much in keeping with, like, night of the living dead. I mean, it’s it’s those same kind of slow walking zombies, pretty traditional in look, although I really liked the look of the zombies in this movie. They, looked really decayed. Anymore with the modern zombie movies, they’re always all wet and, like, you know, like, bleeding and pussy. And these zombies, although it says at one point that they’re, like, 400 years old, they look pretty good for being underground for 400 years, but, they look like they’ve been underground. It’s not all that oozy. I mean, you’ve got some blood and stuff, but for the most part, it’s a lot of, like, caked dirt and and caked blood and stuff.   And 

Todd:  They’re, like, dry and crusty. 

Craig:  Yeah. Right? Yeah. And it looks good. And then, of course, you know, this is the late seventies, so it’s all practical effects. It’s all makeup and costume, and it it looks really good. 

Todd:  I think the makeup is is part of what I love so much about this movie. Exactly what you just said. The zombies look like they’ve been underground for a while. Right. And it’s almost surprising actually in a couple of the scenes when they do get shot or their heads get cut off or something and all this red blood oozes out, it really betrays their exterior appearance in a way, doesn’t it? 

Craig:  Yeah. It does. I mean, I guess, you know, what do we know about the anatomy of zombies? Probably not a whole lot. 

Todd:  That’s true. Well, maybe after they eat your blood, they they gets the blood circulating a little more inside. 

Craig:  Why not? Yeah. And another thing that I really liked about the look of them was they did a lot, And, you know, these must have been, brave actors or, I guess, maybe brave is not the right word. Maybe they just had strong stomachs. But they did a lot with, worms and maggots and stuff and, you know, worms coming out of mouths and out of eyeballs, and it’s obviously real. I mean, it’s obviously practical effects. I don’t know how much they were working with the actual 

Todd:  so. It’s pretty awesome. I like that about this movie. You know what else I like about this movie is it’s kind of a return to the original zombie lore. Instead of being radiation or some weird medical thing, it’s voodoo. Yeah. You know? It’s Well, that’s 

Craig:  the only explanation provided. I mean, it’s it’s most of it the the movie opens with a scene that appears to be in some kind of tropical locale, and it’s like kind of a makeshift hospital or something. And you see a corpse, you know, all, tied up in a sheet, and it it starts to sit up. Somebody who we don’t know yet shoots it and says, okay. The boat can return now. And, then it cuts to New York. And we’re in New York for just a little while, and there’s this sailboat, you know, right off of Manhattan, which was also just kind of a weird flashback to see Manhattan in those days. It’s still a little bit eerie to see the Twin Towers Yeah.   There. But it this apparently abandoned boat, and they call you know, the the coast guard goes in looking for it. And the boat appears to be abandoned until the cops are looking around. And a zombie pops out and and kills 1 of the cops, and that’s what kinda sets it into motion. They’re investigating this boat, and it turns out this boat belonged to some guy, and his daughter Anne hasn’t heard from him in a long time. She’d he she knew he was gonna be, traveling, but she hadn’t heard from him in a long time. 

Todd:  Good thing she happened to live in New York. 

Craig:  Right. Exactly. And I I don’t know how the boat ended up there. Really, it it kinda I don’t 

Todd:  Well, we’re talking aren’t we talking down in the Caribbean? What was is about where it came 

Craig:  Well, see, I I never really could tell. 

Todd:  It there was something San Miguel was something that they had said, and then there was, later on, we we came across the cemetery of some conquistadores. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. 

Todd:  It was maybe to be the gulf there, which which is one of the places where this where the film one of the many places where the film kinda falls apart in that how would this sailboat sailed itself out of the gulf and drifted all the way up to New York. Right. You’d expect it to hit Florida or Georgia or some other place. Yeah. 

Craig:  I mean, I I guess just the crew or whatever was slowly zombified. Like, maybe they only became zombies when they got close to the Arctic. 

Todd:  They were sailing around and, 

Craig:  Right. And and what what I was trying I’m I’m trying to get through the 1st part quickly because it it’s it really just introduces the characters in New York. You’ve got the daughter, Susan, and then you’ve got a reporter, Peter, who’s assigned to this story. And they do some investigating around, and they find this letter that the the guy who owned the boat had written to his daughter, Anne. 

Clip:  To my daughter, Anne, in case anything should happen to me. Due to my morbid curiosity, I have managed to contract a strange disease. They’re taking care of me as if I were some sort of guinea pig, but I know I’ll never leave this island again, at least not alive. I haven’t been a good father, but I have always loved you. One last kiss from dad, Matule, and it’s dated 15th September. 

Craig:  From that, they know where he had been. Yeah. This this island wherever it is called Mathul. 

Todd:  Yeah. One one thing we would never forget. 

Craig:  We’d never forget because they keep saying it over and over again, and it’s it’s just funny to he’s like, how many times? Because he said, welcome to Matule. How do you go back Todd Matule? 

Todd:  I came to this island from Matule many years ago. 

Craig:  So so Peter and Susan find out where it is, and then so they go there. And that’s where we spend pretty much the rest of the movie. It’s this tropical locale. They’re looking for this tropical island, and that’s you know, the bulk of the film takes place where on Mathul. The the mystical island of Mathul. Okay. 

Todd:  But don’t forget the the scene when because this is important later, when they do pull in the cop who was killed as a zombie, there is a scene of them doing an autopsy on it, which is rather humorous. 

Craig:  It’s a really funny scene. 

Todd:  Because, I guess, they had not mortician. What do you call them? 

Craig:  The autopsy guy? I don’t know. 

Todd:  Autopsy guy. The head autopsy guy and his, like, assistant, I guess, who’s maybe still training 

Craig:  Or something. 

Todd:  Keeps putting him down. 

Craig:  Well, it it is it’s   it’s pretty hilarious because it’s kind of this nerdy, snooty white guy, and he’s just the the other guy is black, and he’s just totally demeaning to him throughout. 

Todd:  Opinion of what happened? Oh, can’t you see there are bite marks here? Idiot. Hadn’t be a scalpel. Right. 

Craig:  And, yeah, that’s that’s the cop that got attacked and killed. But we also see at the end of that autopsy scene that underneath the sheet, he starts to move, and that that is important for the end of the film. 

Todd:  It is. It’s an interesting addition. My understanding is that the New York scenes were added to the script after the success of dawn of the dead. 

Craig:  Yeah. I read that too. And it makes sense because it really does kind of tie the movie to dawn of the dead. I mean, they it they could be arguably happening concurrently. What what what goes on on the island with our main characters, we don’t find this out until the end of the movie, but at when they finally, a couple of them, when the the remaining survivors escape the island, they listen to a radio broadcast, and the radio broadcast is talking about the infestation of zombies in New York. And the last scene cuts to zombies walking across the Brooklyn Bridge in a scene that’s very reminiscent of, dawn of the dead or any of the other   Yeah.   Films from that series. So, I mean, it may have been a cheap cash grab to to try to kinda pawn this off as a sequel, but they did a good job of it. Yeah. I mean, they certainly did a better job of it than, the Italian filmmakers behind Troll two. I mean, there is no connection between the those 2 movies. At least, there is some effort here to tie them together. 

Todd:  That’s right. There’s a little more artistry in this film. 

Craig:  Bit. 

Todd:  And and I did think there was quite a bit of artistry in this film. You know? Fulci did a really good job of finding really interesting camera angles, I thought, and moving the camera around quite a bit. He liked to do that trick where you’re looking in a mirror, but you don’t realize you’re looking in a mirror and then it pans out into the real, which is a little disorienting. And I don’t know. I felt like we were looking through the eyes of a pretty accomplished filmmaker who is taking some care with what’s otherwise pretty exploitive, you know, low budget fare. 

Craig:  Right. Yeah. I mean, I thought that the cinematography looked good too. And at one point while we were watching it, I asked you if this was like a restored version or something because it’s the the the version that we’re watching is really clean. I mean, the the video is really clean. When they’re out on the ocean, you get some kind of broad shots, and, you know, when they’re in the tropical locale. He paints good pictures. You like you said, atypical of low budget 

Todd:  type stuff. Yeah. So, Anne and Peter decide to commandeer boat to take them down, to this island of Mathul, and they run across, 2 folks, Susan and Brian, I believe. And this was I guess they flew out. They must have flown out to the gulf somewhere, to some other island, some well known I think it was San Miguel. I I I saw it on a sign or something or maybe 

Craig:  it was just Spanish speaking island. 

Todd:  Yeah. And this guy says, oh, go down here. I know there’s a couple who have a boat, and they’re gonna they’re gonna head out. And they meet these 2, Susan and Brian, and, they’re on vacation. They’re planning to go to another island, and they reluctantly decide to take them aboard. 

Clip:  It’s not a cool place to head. Natives claim it’s cursed. They avoid it like the plague.   We have to go there all the same.   And you want a ride from us?   If that’s possible.   And experience with boats?   Uh-huh. And   the lady?   I was born on a boat.   Okay, Peter. We’ll have to load more supplies. You pay your share. Deal?   A deal.   Step on board here. Look, I’ll warn you right now. Don’t expect us to come sightseeing once we get there. I’ve found it. It never pays to ignore native superstitions. 

Craig:  He maybe should have followed that instinct. 

Todd:  That’s sort of a general horror movie rule. You should just any superstition of the natives Yeah. Don’t reflect 

Craig:  that. Yeah. 

Todd:  Yeah. So they go out, and, of course, they’re driving they’re driving. Yeah. Right. They’re floating around looking for Mathul, and they mentioned that, well, it’s not really on any maps. A lot of these islands aren’t really on the map. 

Craig:  Uncharted. 

Todd:  Right? Kind of supposedly knows where it is, but they’re not for for sure. And while they’re out looking, Susan says, hey. Let’s let’s stop here. I wanna go down and get some pictures. She’s an underwater photographer or something. And so she strips down to no wet suit or anything. 

Craig:  You get a nice long scene, Susan taking her clothes off 

Todd:  She does. 

Craig:  And putting her scuba thing on over her naked body. I mean, she’s wearing this tiny little bathing suit thong on them, and that’s it. And there’s, like, even a a a a pretty long shot of her, like, strapping up under her private area. I mean, it’s it’s it’s clearly exploited, but that was really typical of seventies horror. Yeah. You you you had to have some boobies, in seventies horror. 

Todd:  It’s kinda nice to see something different from a shower scene. You know? True. You you’re going for the scuba diving scene. 

Craig:  We got a shower scene too. We did. Don’t worry. 

Todd:  That’s in 

Craig:  here as well. 

Todd:  She goes diving, and and, again, the the cinematography is really quite nice. 

Craig:  I was impressed. I was impressed as soon as she fell over and the shot it changed from perspective from above to below, water. I thought, wow. You know, they were they were kinda going for it here. 

Todd:  And it’s just beautiful under there with all of the fish and the coral, and she’s swimming and she’s taking pictures, and then there’s a shark that’s comes by, pretty decent sized shark 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  That appears to be threatening her or at least she’s ducking away from it. And as she ducks into sort of a nook in the coral, a hand comes out, and we get the underwater zombie. 

Craig:  The underwater zombie, which I have never seen before or since, I don’t think. 

Todd:  Oh, man. It’s so awesome. 

Craig:  Yeah. It is awesome. And this is the scene that, that you were I think that you were it it is. Right?   It is. 

Todd:  It’s one of them. Yeah. Yep. 

Craig:  Yep. So, she she she came up to the surface and and for help, and then the shark was coming towards her. She goes back down. And like you said, from around this piece of coal or whatever the this is this zombie, grabs her, and they struggle for a while. And she eventually is able to break free and and swims back to the surface. And then you have the awesome zombie shark battle. Yes. 

Todd:  Zombie shark fight. 

Craig:  It’s awesome. And, like, this is a real shark. 

Todd:  It’s clearly a real shark. 

Craig:  Yeah. It’s obviously a real shark. And I I read that, initially, they had cast and hired an actor to play this role, but for some reason, hell, he got sick. 

Todd:  Yeah. I think it was. Yeah. 

Craig:  He got sick and he was unable to do it, and so they replaced him with the shark trainer. First of all, I didn’t know there was such a thing as shark trainers. Yeah. I didn’t know you could trade sharks. Secondly, why wouldn’t you have the shark trainer do it from 

Todd:  the beginning? Right. 

Craig:  How about 

Todd:  the world? 

Craig:  You know, maybe the scene would have played out differently if the actor had done it. I mean, this scene is really cool because the the the guy, the shark trainer zombie, and the shark are really they’re interacting physically. 

Todd:  I mean, he’s onto him and he’s kinda grabbing him, and he’s trying to bite at his skin. Mhmm. He does. He gets a bite off of the shark at one point, and then the shark comes around and, like, gets a bite of his arm Right. And tears his arm off. Yeah. It’s interesting because well, the guy’s name, I looked it up, is Ramon Bravo. Now if you’re gonna be a shark 

Craig:  Yeah. Absolutely. 

Todd:  Ramon Bravo is the name to have. And, apparently, he does he’s done I mean, he’s kind of a shark guy. Like, the other movies he’s been in were documentaries about sharks or other movies that featured killer sharks or something. So I guess he knows what he’s doing. He clearly knew what he’s doing. 

Craig:  I mean, he   had Todd. I mean, that that had to be high risk. He had to, you know, had pretty extensive experience with sharks to be able to do that. Now to be fair, you know, we’ve seen video of real shark attacks, and they’re pretty frenzied. I mean, this was you know, he was obviously taking care and and not trying to hurt this animal. And Yeah. But it was well choreographed and just so different. I I’ve never seen I’ve never seen that kind of interaction with the shark in   a fictional movie. You know, like,   documentaries are one thing, but from an actor’s fi. Freaking cool. Zombies versus sharks. I mean, I’m surprised sci fi hasn’t rolled out a whole movie series of those yet. 

Todd:  I know. I’d like to know what the conversation was like when they’re reading the script and going, I see you wrote in a zombie shark battle. And, alright. Cool. We’ll do that. 

Craig:  We’ll give it a go. 

Todd:  It was it was good. It was good. And and, I mean, an underwater zombie, the whole thing is just fantastic, and can almost turn the movie off right there and just be totally satisfied with it. Yeah. Because if Fulci does does anything right, it’s he delivers where it counts. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   And, I mean, it’s it’s worth seeing the movie just for that. Now like I said, really, overall, it’s fairly typical fair Yeah. For zombie films. That’s not to say that I didn’t enjoy it. I mean, if you’re a fan of zombie films, this is old school. And if you like that old school stuff, watch this. I mean, it’s it’s it’s Todd. I I wasn’t expecting very much. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  You know, zombie films in in general tend to follow the same kind of tropes, and it’s kind of you seen 1, you’ve seen them all. Mhmm. That’s not to say I don’t still watch them, but You 

Todd:  have to you have to really go out there to find 1 with an interesting enough twist that that makes it stand out and be unique. 

Craig:  Yeah. And and the shark scene is that for this. I mean, that’s that’s that’s about it as far as unique stuff goes, but as an old school zombie movie, it’s a good one. 

Todd:  Yeah. And and and then from this point on, it does get a little boring, I think. It doesn’t move very fast. Right? 

Craig:  It’s got kind of a slow build throughout. I was noticing that. I mean, you’ve got that initial, zombie attack in New York, and then you see the zombie kinda start to come alive. But then it’s kinda it’s really half an hour. Mhmm. In an hour and a half film, it’s a half an hour before they get to the island. And then even when they get to the island, it starts off pretty slow. I mean, you get some zombie shots, but it’s individual zombies.   They you know, people are scared of them, but it doesn’t seem to really be all that much of a threat yet. Yeah. And and it’s not really until the final act that things really pick up. 

Todd:  Pick up. Exactly. Yeah. It’s not an action packed thing. No. In many ways, it is kinda like the giallo pic we watched the other day where it’s a lot of, like, walking around, investigating, talking, and things, and then something sudden happens. And when it does, it’s pretty intense and brutal. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  Their boat, I guess, the shark hits their boat and damages it, so they’re forced to land in the island. And thankfully, there is an island right there, and it happens to be Mehul. Right? Mehul. Yes. I forgot it already. It happens to be Mehul, and, we’re introduced to doctor David Maynard. And, a woman, I guess, is his wife. We don’t really know I don’t think we ever got her name. 

Craig:  No. We don’t. But he does say my wife, so it wasn’t wife. Mhmm. 

Todd:  And she’s pretty freaked out, and we don’t really know exactly why. But she’s 

Craig:  Freaked out and pissed off. Yeah.   I’ll be at the hospital. 

Clip:  Hospital. You still see yourself as the scientist you once were, don’t you? Well, you’re you’re not. You’re no better than one of their witch doctors. 

Craig:  Please, just stop it. My research is 

Clip:  Research? You call fooling around with superstitions and voodoo rights research. 

Craig:  You know perfectly well that the 

Clip:  work I’m doing is very important, 

Craig:  And I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t 

Clip:  I don’t give a damn. I don’t wanna stay on this island 1 more hour. You won’t be happy until I meet 1 of your zombies. 

Craig:  And then he leaves and, leaves her home alone. They’ve got this really nice pad on the on the island. He leaves her there, and he tells the groundskeeper, keep an eye out. Don’t let anybody onto the property or whatever.   And then 

Todd:  he leaves worthless groundskeeper ever. 

Craig:  Right. The the groundskeeper’s like, oh,   si, senor. No one will come here. And then and then a little bit more happens, but then when we come back to, the house, the groundskeeper’s, like, sitting on the porch and he hears a noise, and he’s up and out of there.   I’m like, oh, never mind. See you later. 

Todd:  Sure is. And that’s when we get the shower scene. 

Craig:  The shower scene. 

Todd:  And, of course, long lingering shower scene and, a hand ominously. Again, a really nice moment, I thought, where the hand ominously comes up into frame on the window. 

Craig:  It was kinda genuinely spooky. You knew it was coming because you, every once in a while it’s not often, but every once in a while, they’ll do POV shots from the point of view of the zombies, And this was one of them. So you kinda see you know, it’s kinda like a peeping Todd perspective. You see you’re you’re watching her shower from outside this window, and then very slowly from the bottom of the frame comes this zombie hand, and it’s it’s it’s spooky. 

Todd:  It is. I like that moment. And and then we get to the scene that I the other scene that I thought is pretty notorious from this film, and that is when the zombie comes in towards her, she ends up holding herself into a closet essentially or some other room. And it’s one of those doors that has wooden slats across it. So she, is trying to push something up against the door. In the meanwhile, on the other side, the zombie is breaking through the slats, and they’re poking out sharply at her. And one of them grabs her hair and slowly pulls it towards her. She’s sort of helpless against it and slowly pulls her eye onto a nice sharp splinter of wood jutting out, and it’s it’s pretty gruesome 

Craig:  It is gross. 

Todd:  And intense. And like we were saying the other the other week, I think it was even last week, dealing with the eyes 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  And the mouth and stuff, it’s kinda gross. Yeah. Soft in her head. 

Craig:  Yeah. I I liked that shot too, but this would be one of my criticisms of the movie. Now it’s a it’s a zombie movie, so you learn to just let things go. But there was so much irrational behavior from the characters, and there always is in horror. But, you know, times when the zombies are approaching and, again, these are slow walking zombies, and the living characters will just stand there frozen in horror just waiting for these super slow zombies to approach and and and and get them, which they usually do. And this scene, it was a great visual. I know exactly why they did it. You know, they wanted this effect, but it didn’t make any sense.   No. It actually didn’t. She’s she’s trying to keep this zombie out. You know, first, she’s kind of leaning against the door. She she the zombie has his fingers in the door, and she finally gets it shut, and the   the fingers fall off.   And then, like you said, it starts coming through the slats. And so what she does is she goes to this dresser, which is below waist level, and she starts pushing it up against the door. Mhmm. Now he the zombie’s obviously coming through the top part 

Todd:  of the door. She’s not gonna help her. 

Craig:  No. I don’t know what she thinks is gonna help. And then when the zombie and then she gets it up against there, and then she just stands there right against the door where the zombie’s on the other side. So when it busts through, it’s able to grab her hair, and it slowly, slowly, slowly pulls her eyeball onto this broken stick. Never once does she attempt to do anything with her hands. 

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. She’s not knack knocking his arm away. No. 

Craig:  Not knocking the spike thing away. Mhmm. And, you know, I get it. They wanted the effect. It was a good effect. It was a good zombie kill, so we you let it go. But several times throughout, that was the case. You know, people would meet their demise because they would just stand there, not defending themselves in any way. 

Todd:  And I think a lot of that has to do with, I I think Fulci is way more interested in the slow gross out. Yeah. You know? He could have yanked her her eye right onto that. It would have been pretty intense and whatnot, but he wanted us to see that. And there’s even a POV shot as though that the spike is coming towards us. Yeah. And, you’re right. It’s super artificial.   It makes for great visuals, but it it doesn’t make a 

Craig:  lot of sense. And it it is super gross. You know? The the splinter, like, punctures her eye and it pops and, like, all this Liquids oozing out. Comes out. It’s a good effect. It’s a good effect. Meanwhile, 

Todd:  the rest of the crew is, out, talking to doctor David Maynard, and they’re learning about what’s happening. And essentially, I guess people are coming down with some mysterious illness on the island, but then after they die, shortly thereafter they wake up as zombies. And so he has been systematically shooting people in the head after they die, and they have a mass grave that they’ve been burying outside, which is kind of a shocking scene too. Mhmm. 

Craig:  Yeah. He’s got this set up, in an old church that’s serving as a makeshift hospital. He’s trying to treat these people with transfusions. They don’t go much into what he’s trying to do. No. There’s one scene where he draws his own blood and puts it on a microscope and looks at it, but we don’t know what he’s looking at or for. He’s trying to give transfusions to the people who are infected, but we just know that. You know? We don’t know what the purpose is or what the intended result is, but he’s failing.   I mean, nothing’s working. And not only is it people getting sick and and reanimated, but also then when zombies kill somebody, then they’re immediately infected and immediately come back too. And and the natives, well, this was kinda confusing 

Todd:  to me. 

Craig:  Like, the natives thought that it was the result of voodoo that was causing this, but then they were also trying to perform voodoo to make it stop? 

Todd:  It was an odd thing, and it’s never explained in the film. He is continually asking I think his name is Lucas. He’s, sort of his native assistant. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And it seems like there’s a village on the other side of the island as well, because they talk about that village being kind of overrun, and then when it turns out a zombie is spotted in their village, he starts to freak out and wants them to check on his wife and stuff. But it seems, and this is just my idea, would be that if people are dying, they’re performing these voodoo rights to prevent the illness or to to make them well, but those rights are having the unintended or somewhat side effect of bringing them back to life. That was my only guess. And the only thing that would have made this movie a little bit better in my eyes is if that were a lot clearer, and if we even saw some scenes of voodoo rights or we had some idea of the purpose behind it. But as it is, all we hear are drums. 

Craig:  Right. We never even really see the natives except for the couple of native characters, and there’s only a couple. I mean, most I don’t know where they filmed this, but it seemed it seemed pretty deserted. It seemed like they kind of had a little dessert, and it could’ve, you know, it could’ve been staged. I don’t know. But this little, deserted village, and and they keep talking about the natives, and the natives are are converging in the center of the island to do these rituals, but we never see them, and we never see that. We, you know, we hear drum beats. We hear, like, tribal wailing and and stuff like that, but we never see it.   I think if they remade this movie, they would probably play that up a lot more. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And it would be interesting if they did because doesn’t the whole lore of zombies it comes from voodoo tradition. Right? 

Todd:  It does. Yep. 

Craig:  There, I mean, there are still practicing there are people who still practice voodoo today. Oh, yeah. And, you know, I’ve read stories. I can’t account for the, you know, the truthfulness of them, but, you know, their culture believes in in zombies and and reanimation. If I remember what I’ve read correctly, the zombies in the voodoo tradition are not actually dead. They’re just, taken over by Correct. Somebody else. 

Todd:  It’s kind of a mixture of drugs and belief, and and it’s a truth. I mean, did you ever see the serpent in the rainbow? I did. Mhmm. So, yeah, that that tells a pretty good story, another Wes Craven film of generally what what it happens, and that is that there is a kind of drug, through this ritual, that people are given, and it’s a psychotropic type drug, but that commingles with the actual person’s belief in the effect of the voodoo turning them Todd a zombie. And what ends up happening is these people will go into sort of a suspended animation, you know, kind of, the drug will induce a state where their heartbeat gets so slow that it’s and low that it’s undetectable, and so they’ll get buried. And then the person who did that to them will then, you know, that night go back, take them out, and then that person becomes sort of their slave essentially. Yeah. It’s weird to think that it actually happens, but apparently, it’s because of that person.   It’s just a psychological thing. They They believe they’re a zombie now because they believe in the magic. They’ve been pulled out of the ground, and they’re with this guy, so that’s how they act. That’s wild. It’s crazy ridiculous. Now this movie’s nothing like it, 

Craig:  of course.   But at least it kinda, you know, it kinda tries to connect to the lore, I guess, a little bit. It doesn’t explore it very much. But and that’s you know, when I read about this, it was always just intended you know, I think that some of the titles that were thrown around were like island of the zombies or or something like that. I mean, it was just intended to be zombies on an island movie, and and that’s what it is. 

Todd:  And I think island the island of doctor Moreau, that story was a inspiration for the screenwriter, screenwriter of this actually. Yeah. 

Craig:  It’s funny because I was I was kinda thinking that it would it it felt like minus all the weird animal stuff. But, because of the tropical location and scientists, like, experimenting with life and death and those types of things, as we were watching it, I I was thinking in my head, it feels like a cross between night of the living dead and the island of doctor Narrow. 

Todd:  Like, so we never get to see the evil doctor really. You know? 

Craig:  Well, you’re right. Yeah. I mean, they talk about this witch doc the doctor I was talking about is our Oh, yeah. Our main guy. They they do talk about how there’s, like, this witch doctor, but we never, I mean, he’s just casually mentioned. 

Todd:  Yeah. We never see him at all much like the other natives. At the behest of the doctor Maynard, the rest of them drive down the way to check on his wife. 

Craig:  Peter and Susan and Brian. 

Todd:  That’s right. That’s right. And they find her in a pretty actually, that’s a pretty gross, cool scene as well where her half of her body is gone, but she’s still laying there, and there are 4 or 5 zombies munching on her. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  It actually made me think of, I don’t know if you’ve ever played Resident Evil No. The game. When I was in college, we used to play, Resident Evil, and this was the kind of scene that you would see in Resident Evil where you would turn the corner and suddenly in front of you is a half eaten corpse and 4 or 5 zombies just slowly munching on her, kind of really into eating. Let’s put it. No. They don’t really notice you until you get up close to them. 

Craig:  And they get that’s another one of those moments where they the all 4 of them come around the corner and see this happening, you know, 4 or 5 undead zombies eating the gruesome remains of this corpse, and they just stand there and watch for   a little while. That’s right. 

Todd:  And they back out, and there are 2 more zombies in the hallway, and they sort of slowly are linked stumbling towards them. So slowly, in fact, that they could have easily just knocked them out of the way and and just go by. Yeah. You’re right. But, they pull some stuff off the wall and hit them and run off. And, of course, they’re driving their car down the road to try to get away and back to the doctor in the hospital, and they hit a zombie in the middle of the road. It goes off the Todd, and now their car is broken down.