In this episode of the SoilHealthLabs podcast series, Buz Kloot and Joe Dickie chat with Dr. Fred Provenza, professor emeritus of Behavioral Ecology at Utah State University, and author of several important books on animal behavior and land stewardship. Our discussion delves into the profound connections between healthy grasslands and healthy livestock, with Fred sharing personal stories and research that highlight the intricate relationships between soil, plants, animals, and humans.

Fred begins by recounting his early experiences working with Henry DeLuca, a rancher who started in the late 1800s. Henry’s deep understanding of his land and livestock left a lasting impression on Fred, particularly Henry’s practice of retaining his own replacement heifers to ensure they "knew the range." This experience shaped Fred’s lifelong exploration of the dynamic interplay between animals and their environments.

As the conversation progresses, Fred shares intriguing anecdotes about the mutual learning that occurs between livestock mothers and their young. He describes how a calf might explore and learn to eat a plant that the mother avoids, eventually leading the mother to try it as well. This two-way street of learning is crucial for the herd's adaptability and the health of the landscape.

The discussion also touches on the innovative methods used to train livestock, such as using a bitter, non-toxic substance to deter cows from nibbling on saplings. These stories illustrate how thoughtful, experience-based interventions can create sustainable practices that benefit both the animals and the environment.

The conversation then moved towards the wisdom of shepherds, contrasting their role with that of herders. Fred explains that while a herder might direct animals where to go, a shepherd observes and learns from the animals, allowing them to naturally select the plants they need. This approach not only supports animal health but also promotes the biodiversity of the landscape, which is essential for maintaining a healthy ecosystem.

Fred shares insights from his collaboration with French shepherds, particularly with co-author Michel Meuret (see additional resources below), highlighting how they use sequencing in grazing to optimize both animal and land health. By understanding which plants to graze first and in what order, shepherds can ensure that the landscape is utilized sustainably, preventing overgrazing and promoting a balanced ecosystem.

The conversation also explores the broader implications of reconnecting with our food systems. Fred reflects on the disconnect between modern agricultural practices and the land, using the example of Montana—a state rich in cattle but reliant on imported beef, and the talk he gave at Montana’s Old Salt Festival. This disconnect, he argues, has weakened our sense of community and our relationship with the land.

As the episode concludes, Fred emphasizes the importance of re-establishing these connections. The wisdom gained from shepherds and their relationship with the land and animals offers valuable lessons for how we approach our food systems today. This episode is a call to action, urging listeners to rediscover the value of experiential knowledge in maintaining the health of our ecosystems.

Additional Resources:

• Dr. Fred Provenza’s Talk at Utah State University: The Web of Life Event
• Dr. Fred Provenza’s Books:
  • Nourishment: What Animals Can Teach Us about Rediscovering Our Nutritional Wisdom
  • Foraging Behavior: Managing to Survive in a World of Change
  • The Art & Science of Shepherding: Tapping the Wisdom of French Herders
• Old Salt Co-Op (Montana) website: https://www.oldsaltco-op.com/
• NY Times Article: Montana has more Cows than People: Why Are Locals Eating Beef from Brazil? https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/13/business/montana-meat-old-salt-co-op.html