We’re getting unusually honest this week, which is dangerous because we normally protect ourselves with Fresca, profanity, and deeply unnecessary arguments about driving distances. After Jon’s birthday escape to Chattanooga, we talk about what it feels like to build a community while still feeling outside of it, how race directing can leave us alone together, and why finding time for each other sometimes feels harder than running all night.

We also build Becca a caving squeeze box, survive an aggressively confusing hospital parking garage, and wade directly into the backyard ultra controversy involving disqualifications, integrity, and rules people apparently believed were decorative. It’s funny, vulnerable, and probably our most honest conversation yet. A must-listen for runners, race directors, couples, and anyone who has ever created something beautiful only to wonder where they fit inside it.