Stephen is a living legend. He is the author of one of my favorite books "Die Wise: A Manifesto for Sanity and Soul". He also recently co-authored a book with Kimberly Ann Johnson titled "Reckoning". Stephen started his career as a palliative care social worker in "the death trade", which, in short, is the over-medicalized, over-pathologized process of dying in the West. In this episode, we dive deep into birth and death, particularly when the two occur in the same breath. Death of children is confronting, and in our society, "kids aren't supposed to die". But what if they do die? Who has the language and courage to hold space for their grieving parents? This task has been vested to medical professionals, but we are just as incompetent in talking about death as anybody else. Instead, we resort to platitude and dangle carrots of hope that perhaps a dying child is merely an illusion. This conversation is powerful...and it was an honor to have Stephen on the show.



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[00:14:00]

• euphemisms and death


• You don’t “pass away”. You “die”.


• Health care professionals at expected to be good at talking about mortality without having any training in the language


• Nobody is READY to talk about their own death; in some ways, you must force them to confront it

[00:25:00]

• The story of a birth and death coincident


• It’s our job to give a patient persmision to talk about death and dying


• The “Book of Supposed To” guides our confrontation with death


• “Kids aren’t supposed to die” appears in this book


• Not “living a long” or “full” life is inconceivable


• What happens to us as we grow up that we lose track of our mortality? Lose the notion of a truly full life?

[00:38:00]

• just because we can extend life, does this mean that we should?


• citizenShip malpractice


• COVID-19 was a God


• It provided an opportunity, and we missed out


• Because we all didn’t die, does that mean that we won?


• COVID required us to aim our middle sunward, but we instead aimed our missions outward

[00:54:00]

• humane versus human


• humans haven’t been a “part of nature” for a long time


• Stephen is often accused of being “anti-medicine”


• The cost of everything we do to avoid mortality is incalculable


• Gregory Hoskins Band (stay tuned to the very end of the episode to hear one of Stephen's songs...)

Catch Stephen on tour with Gregory Hoskins

Buy Stephen's books

Stephen's website



Find me on Instagram @nathanrileyobgyn and my practice at: www.BelovedHolistics.com



Music by: Labrinth and Preservation Hall Jazz Band

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