We kick things off by diving into the nuances of Totems—what their limitations are, whether they’re as good as everyone says, and whether the mystical powers of the black Totem are fact or fiction. From there, we dig into climbing partnerships: what to look for, what to avoid, and how we can all be better partners. Tal shares two of his closest calls in the mountains and how they shaped his evolving relationship with risk. And then, we shift to Tal’s true passion: Wonderland.

A 5 sqmi area southwest of Denver, CO that Tal has been developing for the last three years. While only a handful of first routes were developed in the area back in the 2000s by Jay Vonesh… Tal and his community has now since added well over 200 routes across numerous of the countless rock formations that litter the forested area. While it is a slab climber's paradise. Wonderland has something to offer for just about everyone with cracks, slabs, face climbs, and a variety of high quality bouldering. Expect to find this area littered with raspberries, mushrooms, owl pellets, bones, deer/elk scat, oddly friendly magpies, unnerving signs of big cats, great views, and a lot of solitude.

For Tal, developing a climbing area is far more meaningful than any single route. He believes you need to “hear the song” of a place before you can truly develop it. The more intimately familiar you are with the rocks, the plants, the wildlife, the rhythm of the land—the better developer you become. A beautiful, poetic reflection of the depth and care Tal brings to this sport and his community.

If you stoked about visiting Wonderland be sure to pick up a copy of the guidebook Tal made for the area. You can do so with the link in the episode show notes. Tal also invites anyone interested in meeting the local community to reach out! You’ll find Tal’s IG link below as well. 

----

HELP SUPPORT THE SHOW & GET ACCESS TO EXCLUSIVE EPISODES! 

 For a little as $5/mo!

----

Don’t forget to check out our full video episodes on Youtube!

---

The TCM movement is growing but we need your help to spread the word! Word of mouth is one of the best ways to support the show. 

Share an episode with a friend.
Post about the show on social media.
Jump into Reddit threads or Mountain Project forums and tell people what you’re listening to.
Tag the show, tag your favorite guests, help spread the word.

Please rate and review us on your favorite podcatcher.

---

Resources

Tal's IG

Buy The Guidebook to Wonderland