On this week’s Talkhouse Podcast we’ve got a deep, enlightening conversation between two talented wordsmiths who also happen to be admirers of each other’s work: Mick Jenkins and Aja Monet.

Mick Jenkins first found some notice a little over a decade ago with a mixtape called The Waters, a sophisticated, politically minded group of songs that sounded wiser than his years and got him tons of attention from his homebase of Chicago and beyond. Early collaborators include Chance the Rapper and and Vic Mensa, which should tell you a little bit about what to expect from Jenkins’ sound, but not the whole story: He’s since released a bunch of records that take plenty of left turns, including last year’s jazzy A Murder of Crows, made with producer EMIL. Check out “Worker’s Comp” from that album right here.

Speaking of jazzy, the other half of today’s conversation is Aja Monet, who’s taken her poetry from the page and straight readings to a place bursting with music and rhythm on a pair of albums, including a brand new one called The Color of Rain. Jenkins and their mutual friend Vic Mensa join on one song, “Melting Clocks” but it’s most Monet’s show throughout, with her poetry set over zigzagging instruments and tempos. It never feels forced, but rather a natural extension of what she’s all about—complex, lyrical, and sometimes intense. Check out “Melting Clocks” right here.

This conversation starts a little slowly—Jenkins is just waking up and has been having a rough few months. But these two draw inspiration and life from chatting with each other: They cover Jenkins’ early years, when he wasn’t sure if his religion would allow him to pursue secular music; and they get deep into how to deal with the crazy world we’re living in at the moment—specifically how to manage anger. It’s a deep conversation with a lot of wisdom coming from both directions. Enjoy.

0:00 Intro

3:04 Start of Conversation

3:29 On new projects and working through grief with family

4:53 On things women weren’t told about, and learning about ourselves

6:27 On the broken healthcare system, and prioritizing wellness with age

9:23 On self-care, supporting friends, and community

11:25 On expanding your worldview while traveling, and healthcare abroad 

18:21 On reacting to US politics and “righteous rage”

22:29 On power dynamics and understanding experiences with anger

26:40 On how Aja’s art expresses anger and love

27:24 On Mick’s career, and what he wanted to express with his early work

29:19 On seeing love in nature, and unique expressions of anger in art

29:56 On reaching people with deeply personal and honest art, and how Mick’s background influences his music

37:10 On feeling afraid of speaking up, and grappling with spirituality

39:45 On empathy, giving others grace, and Aja’s religious upbringing

42:37 On living your truth, growing as a person, and recognizing ignorance

45:07 On finding balance, being humbled by nature, and “warrior spirits”

47:32 On being peers, and learning from each other

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast and thanks to Aja Monet and Mick Jenkins for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform and check out all the great stuff at Talkhouse.com. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme was composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

Find more illuminating podcasts on the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ to read essays, reviews, and more. Follow @talkhouse on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter (X)⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠.