In the second of our duo of episodes on surrogacy, Ariel Taylor, the founder of fertility and surrogacy organisation Carried With Love, talks about being a gestational carrier five times - and how it felt when she lost one of those pregnancies.

Meanwhile, Prof T talks beta tests - why do some clinics do them and others don't?

Scroll to 53:21 to hear Gabby's absolute banger. And if you want to check out Emma's interview with Jessica Valenti, you can read it here: https://www.thepersistent.com/us-presidential-election-abortion-voter-issues-jessica-valenti-interview/.

Swears throughout.

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