Bankless

How should we value L1 tokens in crypto?

Today’s guest, Jonah Weinstein of Skycatcher, introduces RSOV—“Realized Store of Value”—a new metric designed to fundamentally rethink how we evaluate Layer 1 assets like ETH, SOL, and BTC. In this episode, we explore why traditional models like DCF and REV fall short for monetary assets, how RSOV works, and why it may be a better way to understand crypto’s total addressable market. Tune in for a fresh perspective that could change how you analyze L1s forever.

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TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro
0:23 How to Value L1 Tokens
7:18 REV
20:32 L1 Tokens are Money
27:11 Payments vs SoV Use Case
36:13 TAM for Digital Money
41:45 BTC: Special Snowflake?
45:31 RSOV
1:03:17 REV vs RSOV
1:12:07 RSOV Valuations
1:18:27 RSOV Drivers
1:34:10 Future of RSOV
1:36:43 Skycatcher
1:38:55 Opportunities to Watch
1:40:46 Closing & Disclaimers

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RESOURCES

Jonah Weinstein
https://x.com/_Jonahw

RSOV Deck
https://docsend.com/view/mb2v6k3yr38gpfwm

RSOV Dune Dashboard
https://dune.com/sc_research/rsov

RSOV Template Financial Model
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IH0IX0yal7raqhO8SWzcVGK-TAH-b7avRlZ3pxR0krc/edit?usp=sharing

Skycatcher
https://skycatcher.xyz/

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Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠

This week, Ryan and David unpack Bitcoin’s explosive run to $111K and the macro chaos driving it—specifically, the U.S. Treasury’s failed bond auction and what it signals for the dollar. They break down the Senate’s landmark stablecoin bill (and Elizabeth Warren’s meltdown), Ethereum’s ZK miracle that could 100x Layer 1 throughput, and Texas launching its own state Bitcoin reserve. Plus, why Stanley Druckenmiller’s portfolio strategy might justify going all-in on crypto—and whether alt season is finally on the horizon.

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🟠HEMI | BTC & ETH, ONE NETWORK
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TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES

0:00 Intro

0:31 Stanley Druckenmiller
https://x.com/mrexits/status/1925354907382816880

3:40 Markets
https://x.com/glassnode/status/1925225568817099260
https://x.com/btc_archive/status/1925468871449866309
https://x.com/WatcherGuru/status/1925401414659867102
https://x.com/Cointelegraph/status/1924676563582267643
https://x.com/CryptoRank_io/status/1923875599275143300
https://x.com/cburniske/status/1925482199727710648
https://www.reuters.com/business/tepid-demand-us-treasury-auction-shows-investor-jitters-about-tax-bill-deficit-2025-05-21/

20:42 U.S. About to Pass a Landmark Stablecoin Bill?
https://x.com/SenatorHagerty/status/1924933844001521787
https://x.com/eleanorterrett/status/1924504745689153812
https://x.com/WayneVaughan/status/1924660740847222832
https://x.com/intangiblecoins/status/1925247754969797007
https://x.com/cburniske/status/1924705825723187343
https://x.com/CampbellJAustin/status/1925170860140249445

33:48 ETHEREUM IS SAVED. Bet it all on zk! Real-time proving is coming to Ethereum!
https://x.com/drakefjustin/status/1924929057676001466
https://x.com/VitalikButerin/status/1925050155922862526
https://x.com/pumatheuma/status/1925231968117277066
https://x.com/SuccinctLabs/status/1924523978703740963

45:26 Solana’s next leap: the proposed “Alpenglow” consensus
https://x.com/Austin_Federa/status/1924498049482559677
https://www.anza.xyz/
https://x.com/gttyson/status/1924519192101061035

47:57 FIGHT FOR RWAS
https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/1925577606163829203
https://blog.kraken.com/news/tokenized-equities-coming-soon

48:58 BIG Sui Dex hacked
https://x.com/Cointelegraph/status/1925509145366503486
https://x.com/SuiNetwork/status/1925572334054002774
https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/sui

52:13 SKY became the sole governance token of the Sky
https://x.com/SkyEcosystem/status/1924515700564988354
https://upgrademkrtosky.com

53:54 Bitcoin community might rename sats to bitcoins
https://x.com/jack/status/1924121538485178658

57:16 Texas Strategic Bitcoin Reserve bill officially passed - TEXAS loves crypto
https://x.com/BitcoinMagazine/status/1925239389141049353
https://bitcoinlaws.io/tx

58:24 Galaxy was listed on Nasdaq - $7 billion
https://x.com/galaxyhq/status/1923411961754108177

59:11 Hester Peirce’s “New Paradigm” speech (SEC Speaks, 19 May 2025)
https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/speeches-statements/peirce-remarks-sec-speaks-051925
https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/1924539029346828608
-https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2025/05/20/sec-charges-unicoin-top-executives-with-100m-massive-securities-fraud

1:01:39 DOJ is investigating Coinbase data breach & Circle Rumors?
https://cointelegraph.com/news/justice-department-coinbase-data-breach
https://www.coindesk.com/business/2025/05/20/circle-has-explored-potential-5b-sale-to-coinbase-or-ripple-instead-of-ipo-report

1:04:00 Closing & Disclaimers

1:04:26 Moment of Zen
https://x.com/mrexits/status/1925354907382816880

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Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

In this episode of the Bankless Podcast, hosts discuss Real Economic Value (REV). Triggered by Jon's exploration of how ETH and SOL prices correlate with REV, the team delves into REV's role as a value capture metric and demand signal for blockchain networks. We evaluate the implications for network valuations, debate the sustainability of relying on REV, and analyze competitive dynamics between Ethereum and Solana. The conversation concludes with musings on crypto investment risks and the evolving identity of digital currencies in relation to app utility.

Jon Charbonneau: https://x.com/jon_charb
Bread: https://x.com/0xBreadguy
Andy8052: https://x.com/andy8052

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🟠HEMI | BTC & ETH, ONE NETWORK
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---
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 REV
https://x.com/jon_charb/status/1923739890115543264
https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/1924835154700234866

17:56 Stablecoins vs Native Currencies

28:38 Tribalism
https://x.com/post_polar_/status/1924458711940055246
https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/1924202146117153172

39:30 The Trenches
https://dune.com/beincrypto/solana-launchpads

49:14 Pump . Fun

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Arthur Hayes returns to Bankless for a wide-ranging macro and crypto conversation.

We cover why ETH ripped, why the Trump administration might walk away from US treasuries as the global reserve asset, and why capital controls—not tariffs—could redefine the global economic order. Arthur lays out his full thesis on how a massive shift in global liquidity is unfolding, what it means for crypto, and why he’s betting big on Bitcoin, gold, and “buying everything” as the money printers rev up again.

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🌐SELF | PROVE YOUR SELF
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🟠HEMI | BTC & ETH, ONE NETWORK
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TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro
0:34 ETH’s Back?
2:25 Bretton Woods
7:38 The Petrodollar
9:37 The Petroyuan
17:47 US China Trade Imbalances
20:22 Liberation Day & Tariffs
33:19 Capital Controls
38:42 US Capital Flights
44:51 Dual Monetary System
49:08 Bitcoin as a Reserve Currency?
50:19 Buy Everything Except Bonds
53:07 Scott Bessent
57:02 QE is Inevitable
1:02:15 Stablecoins
1:06:55 Trump’s Pro-Crypto Campaign
1:11:44 Global Liquidity
1:21:20 Gold Reevaluation
1:25:18 Hot War Scenario
1:29:54 Arthur’s Bags
1:30:33 Crypto Cycle
1:35:07 Closing & Disclaimers

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RESOURCES

Arthur Hayes X
https://x.com/CryptoHayes

Arthur’s Blog Post
https://cryptohayes.medium.com/fatty-fatty-boom-boom-52e47a03f487

Arthur Hayes IG
https://www.instagram.com/cryptohayes/

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-hayes-b493b42/

Substack
https://cryptohayes.substack.com/

Maelstrom
https://maelstrom.fund/

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Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠

📣 BANKESS x FRAX MEETUP | Permissionless 2025
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This week, Ryan and David break down Ethereum’s explosive 50% surge and the surprising macro catalyst behind it: a U.S.–China tariff deal that has markets ripping. They cover Coinbase’s massive customer data leak (and Brian Armstrong’s $20M bounty response), Robinhood’s stealthy Layer 2 acquisition, and the rise of meme coins funding real apps. Plus, why Arthur Hayes thinks the bull market is just beginning.

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🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK
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🌐SELF | PROVE YOUR SELF
https://bankless.cc/Self

🟠HEMI | BTC & ETH, ONE NETWORK
https://bankless.cc/hemi

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TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES

0:00 Intro

0:06 “Who is laughing now?” statement from NYC Mayor
https://x.com/WatcherGuru/status/1922036267685908761

3:47 Prices, Uniswap, & Aave
https://x.com/jbrukh/status/1922315929578299580
https://dune.com/mud2monarch/countdown-to-three-trillion-united-states-dollars
https://x.com/StaniKulechov/status/1921478583337312339
https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/1921925615923388864
https://l2beat.com/scaling/summary

14:10 Tariff Truce - US and China agree to slash tariffs for 90 days - We’re Saved!!!
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/05/12/us-and-china-agree-to-slash-tariffs-for-90-days.html
https://x.com/biancoresearch/status/1921927955573264802
https://polymarket.com/event/us-recession-in-2025
https://cryptohayes.substack.com/p/fatty-fatty-boom-boom

28:40 Bad Coinbase news first - Coinbase MAJOR customer data leak
Coinbase $20m award leading to the arrest of hackers
https://x.com/brian_armstrong/status/1922967787309256807
https://x.com/coinbase/status/1922967576209998133
https://x.com/0xBreadguy/status/1923006791031587248
https://x.com/adamscochran/status/1923018728800686532
https://x.com/lemiscate/status/1922984240318193934

35:48 Coinbase becomes the first crypto company in S&P500
https://x.com/iamdcinvestor/status/1922068706084970750
https://x.com/cbfutures/status/1920850444093448225
https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/NASDAQ-COIN/

37:28 Internet Capital Markets Meta
https://www.jellyjelly.com/
https://dexscreener.com/solana/3bc2e2rxcfvf9op22lvbansvwos2t98q6ercroayqydq
https://x.com/gabrielhaines/status/1922293923420000346
https://www.believescreener.com/
https://x.com/believeapp/status/1922780481684148519
https://x.com/alex_leiman/status/1922075531966550488
https://x.com/msg/status/1922708357686743551
https://x.com/pasternak/status/1922493500504867290
https://dune.com/adam_tehc/memecoin-wars
https://x.com/WazzCrypto/status/1922826087467204636
https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/1922635525992644770
https://x.com/pumpdotfun/status/1921941742854512924?
https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/1922006135520764094

50:29 Robinhood will acquire Kevin O’Leary-Backed WonderFi - Leads to ETH L2.
https://x.com/RobinhoodApp/status/1922245928691421671
https://www.wonder.fi

52:12 CryptoPunks have a new owner!
https://x.com/cryptopunksnfts/status/1922291088431448396
https://x.com/econoar/status/1922339944774664660
https://www.coingecko.com/en/nft

53:46 Is the SEC becoming awesome now? pro-capital, pro-crypto SEC
Paul Atkins said that his priority is to develop new rules for crypto tokens
https://x.com/WatcherGuru/status/1921977322871140360
https://x.com/SECGov/status/1922001045087027349
https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/1920585655039529220
https://www.sec.gov/files/ctf-memo-blackrock-05092025.pdf

58:42 Superstate is launching Opening Bell platform with their first client!
https://x.com/superstatefunds/status/1920479311728869826

1:00:01 JD Vance will speak at Bitcoin 2025
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/politics/u-s-vice-president-jd-vance-to-speak-at-bitcoin-2025-confer

1:00:32 Meta is exploring stabecoins again!
https://x.com/degeneratenews/status/1920557131201122806

1:01:59 Closing & Disclaimers

------
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Ryan and David reunite on Bankless Takes with a big question: What must Ethereum do to win?

Ryan champions a memetic and cultural shift, calling for ETH maximalism and nationalism to reignite belief in ETH as a monetary asset. David brings a product-driven roadmap, urging Ethereum to strengthen its L1 as the economic hub of the internet.

Together, they explore a vision for a unified Ethereum that can scale, coordinate, and ultimately win. This isn’t just a talk—it’s a strategy session for Ethereum’s future.

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🌐SELF | PROVE YOUR SELF
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🟠HEMI | BTC & ETH, ONE NETWORK
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------
TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES

0:00 Intro
3:21 Job’s Not Finished
10:11 A Call for Maximalism

13:10 Blue-Money Gospel
https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/1915874994514452763

25:23 Restoring ETH’s Product-Money Feedback Loop
https://www.bankless.com/read/restoring-eths-product-money-feedback-loop

46:58 Towards a United Chains of Ethereum
https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/1917298612540739931
https://x.com/Spire_Labs/status/1915430799618564394
https://l2beat.com/scaling/summary

1:05:43 ETH—Commodity Money Backed by an Economy
https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/1918065179725570536

1:08:59 Rethinking Our Messaging
1:14:49 Can Ethereum Still Win?
1:19:22 Closing & Disclaimers

------
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠

In this episode of the Bankless Roundtable, host David Hoffman is joined by crypto enthusiasts Zero X Bread Guy, John Charbonneau, and Andy8052 to discuss the recent surge in Ethereum's price, which skyrocketed nearly 50% this week. The panel analyzes the impact of the Believe app and Launchcoin on internet capital markets, Coinbase's entry into the S&P 500, and Robinhood's new Layer 2 solution. They explore the implications of these developments for investor confidence and market liquidity, alongside the rising interest in meme-based tokens. The conversation wraps up with thoughts on Ethereum vs. Solana and the importance of community engagement in the evolving crypto landscape.

Jon Charbonneau: https://x.com/jon_charb
Bread: https://x.com/0xBreadguy
Andy8052: https://x.com/andy8052

—-

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🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK
https://bankless.cc/Mantle

🌐SELF | PROVE YOUR SELF
https://bankless.cc/Self

🟠HEMI | BTC & ETH, ONE NETWORK
https://bankless.cc/hemi

---
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 ETH vs SOL vs BTC

5:40 Internet Capital Markets
https://x.com/gabrielhaines/status/1922293923420000346
https://dexscreener.com/solana/yrrustgpugdp8bbfosqdefssen6sa75zs1qjvgnhtmy
https://www.believescreener.com/
https://x.com/believeapp

22:19 Memecoin Launchpads
https://x.com/believeapp/status/1922075588115775489
https://x.com/zhusu/status/1922178773375418733

30:32 Ethereum Up 50%
https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/ethereum

46:25 Coinbase Listed
https://x.com/coinbase/status/1922046840528113880

53:47 Robinhood Acquires Wonderfi
https://x.com/hanni_abu/status/1922341347844841611

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

In this episode of the Bankless Roundtable, host David Hoffman is joined by crypto enthusiasts Zero X Bread Guy, John Charbonneau, and Andy8052 to discuss the recent surge in Ethereum's price, which skyrocketed nearly 50% this week. The panel analyzes the impact of the Believe app and Launchcoin on internet capital markets, Coinbase's entry into the S&P 500, and Robinhood's new Layer 2 solution. They explore the implications of these developments for investor confidence and market liquidity, alongside the rising interest in meme-based tokens. The conversation wraps up with thoughts on Ethereum vs. Solana and the importance of community engagement in the evolving crypto landscape.

Jon Charbonneau: https://x.com/jon_charb
Bread: https://x.com/0xBreadguy
Andy8052: https://x.com/andy8052

—-

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BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

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🦄UNISWAP | SWAP ON UNICHAIN
https://bankless.cc/unichain

🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK
https://bankless.cc/Mantle

🌐SELF | PROVE YOUR SELF
https://bankless.cc/Self

🟠HEMI | BTC & ETH, ONE NETWORK
https://bankless.cc/hemi

---
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 ETH vs SOL vs BTC

5:40 Internet Capital Markets
https://x.com/gabrielhaines/status/1922293923420000346
https://dexscreener.com/solana/yrrustgpugdp8bbfosqdefssen6sa75zs1qjvgnhtmy
https://www.believescreener.com/
https://x.com/believeapp

22:19 Memecoin Launchpads
https://x.com/believeapp/status/1922075588115775489
https://x.com/zhusu/status/1922178773375418733

30:32 Ethereum Up 50%
https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/ethereum

46:25 Coinbase Listed
https://x.com/coinbase/status/1922046840528113880

53:47 Robinhood Acquires Wonderfi
https://x.com/hanni_abu/status/1922341347844841611

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

In this episode of the Bankless Roundtable, host David Hoffman is joined by crypto enthusiasts Zero X Bread Guy, John Charbonneau, and Andy8052 to discuss the recent surge in Ethereum's price, which skyrocketed nearly 50% this week. The panel analyzes the impact of the Believe app and Launchcoin on internet capital markets, Coinbase's entry into the S&P 500, and Robinhood's new Layer 2 solution. They explore the implications of these developments for investor confidence and market liquidity, alongside the rising interest in meme-based tokens. The conversation wraps up with thoughts on Ethereum vs. Solana and the importance of community engagement in the evolving crypto landscape.

Jon Charbonneau: https://x.com/jon_charb
Bread: https://x.com/0xBreadguy
Andy8052: https://x.com/andy8052

—-

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BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🪙FRAX | SELF SUFFICIENT DeFi
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🦄UNISWAP | SWAP ON UNICHAIN
https://bankless.cc/unichain

🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK
https://bankless.cc/Mantle

🌐SELF | PROVE YOUR SELF
https://bankless.cc/Self

🟠HEMI | BTC & ETH, ONE NETWORK
https://bankless.cc/hemi

---
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 ETH vs SOL vs BTC

5:40 Internet Capital Markets
https://x.com/gabrielhaines/status/1922293923420000346
https://dexscreener.com/solana/yrrustgpugdp8bbfosqdefssen6sa75zs1qjvgnhtmy
https://www.believescreener.com/
https://x.com/believeapp

22:19 Memecoin Launchpads
https://x.com/believeapp/status/1922075588115775489
https://x.com/zhusu/status/1922178773375418733

30:32 Ethereum Up 50%
https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/ethereum

46:25 Coinbase Listed
https://x.com/coinbase/status/1922046840528113880

53:47 Robinhood Acquires Wonderfi
https://x.com/hanni_abu/status/1922341347844841611

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Shaun Maguire, partner at Sequoia and former physicist turned investor, joins the Limitless Podcast to explore why we’re on the verge of a technological renaissance.

From AI and silicon photonics to humanoid robots and space infrastructure, Shaun makes the case that the next 20 years will make the internet boom look tame. We dive deep into why America needs 10 SpaceX-level companies, the return of hardware innovation, the energy constraints of the future, and how frontier technologies like Neuralink and Mars colonization might reshape civilization.

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💫 LIMITLESS | SUBSCRIBE & FOLLOW
https://pod.link/1813210890
https://www.youtube.com/@Limitless-FT
https://x.com/LimitlessFT

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BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🪙FRAX | SELF SUFFICIENT DeFi
https://bankless.cc/Frax

🦄UNISWAP | SWAP ON UNICHAIN
https://bankless.cc/unichain

🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK
https://bankless.cc/Mantle

🌐SELF | PROVE YOUR SELF
https://bankless.cc/Self

🟠HEMI | BTC & ETH, ONE NETWORK
https://bankless.cc/hemi

------
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro
6:36 Who’s Shaun Maguire?
9:24 Investing in the AI Age
13:06 Hardware Manufacturing
21:58 Hardware Precedes Software Revolutions
42:20 Energy
49:53 Space Solar Reflectors
55:45 Space Economy
1:04:15 Elon Musk
1:14:24 Robotics
1:17:39 Neuralink
1:25:22 Doom Scenarios
1:32:02 Closing Thoughts

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RESOURCES

Shaun Maguire
https://x.com/shaunmmaguire

Sequoia Capital
https://www.sequoiacap.com/

Josh Kale
https://x.com/Josh_Kale

David Hoffman
https://x.com/TrustlessState

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Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠