Bankless

Ethereum may be one of the most underappreciated assets.

In this conversation, Michael McGuiness and Vivek Raman lay out the case for ETH as “productive money”, a monetary asset with the store-of-value properties of gold and Bitcoin, plus the ability to compound through network activity.

We unpack the $250K ETH thesis, why traditional DCF models miss the bigger picture, and why Ethereum’s role as the settlement layer for a tokenized economy could unlock massive monetary premium.

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💰NEXO | YIELD + CREDIT LINE

https://bankless.cc/nexo

🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY

https://bankless.cc/OKX

🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD

https://bankless.cc/brix 

------

TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro

4:45 $250K ETH?

6:04 How to Price ETH

8:15 ETH’s Monetary Premium

10:25 What Differentiates ETH

13:54 The Path to $250K ETH

16:35 Menger’s Monetary Attributes

20:28 Scarcity

24:58 Fungibility

26:43 Divisibility

27:45 Portability

28:28 Durability

34:30 Verifiability

35:27 Censorship Resistance

37:00 ETH is Productive Money

41:39 How is ETH Productive?

46:40 Ethereum’s Tollbooth

51:28 Counterparty Risk

53:48 Productive Money vs Dead Capital

58:03 Pitching Productive Money to Wall Street

1:00:08 Why is ETH Underappreciated?

1:04:19 Wall Street ETH Investors

1:11:28 Other L1s

1:14:06 Why Not Just Buy the S&P?

1:15:00 Ethereum Technical Risks

1:17:20 How Does ETH Get to $250K?

1:23:18 Closing & Disclaimers

------
RESOURCES

ETH is Productive Money

https://www.productivemoney.org/ 

Michael McGuiness

https://x.com/mikemcg0 

Vivek Raman

https://x.com/VivekVentures 

Etherealize

https://www.etherealize.com/ 

------

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠ 

Austen Allred joins Bankless to unpack Kelly Claude, the AI agent he has given an LLC, bank accounts, a token, and even a human employee. They explore how Kelly finds software opportunities, ships apps to the App Store, learns through orchestration and factory-style workflows, and why crypto rails may be the missing layer for agent-to-agent commerce.

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💰NEXO | YIELD + CREDIT LINE
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🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY
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🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD
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---
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro
1:05 Meet Kelly
4:46 Why Kelly needed an LLC, bank account, and token
10:27 The real goal is a zero-human company
15:46 The apps Kelly is already shipping
18:33 Can taste be replicated?
21:53 Why AI defaults to consensus
30:04 What orchestration and factories actually mean
34:21 How autonomous is autonomous?
38:20 The marketing factory and why AI ads must look worse
46:47 Why Ryan and David’s agent Daniel keeps failing
54:43 Can there be a generic template for AI companies?
59:14 If everyone can build over a weekend, what are the moats?
1:06:08 Why crypto finally clicks for AI agents
1:12:32 The missing crypto product is distribution
1:14:57 Advice for builders experimenting with agents

---
RESOURCES

Austen Allred
https://x.com/Austen

Kelly Claude
https://x.com/kellyclaudeai

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
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Markets are ripping back to all-time highs, but crypto still isn’t following suit.

Ryan and David break down the V-shaped recovery driven by Iran de-escalation, why Bitcoin is still stuck in range, and the growing bull vs bear divide across macro and onchain data. They also unpack Saylor’s STRC “money printer,” the World Liberty DeFi controversy, and the SEC’s surprise ruling that just gave DeFi a major win.

Plus: the Bitcoin community’s plan to freeze Satoshi’s coins and what it means for the future of the network.

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🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS

https://thedefireport.io/bankless

---

TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES

0:00 Intro

2:04 Markets at ATHs / Iran De-Escalation

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2044507788961894462 

https://x.com/TheStalwart/status/2044045804596346931

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2041728989119529307

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2043285255931441306

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2043323635671179641

https://x.com/AndrewBeckUSA/status/2043136650478301245

https://x.com/zerohedge/status/2044426813544255859

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2044055049882476961

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2044435422944649651

https://polymarket.com/event/us-x-iran-permanent-peace-deal-by/?via=bankless?

https://x.com/RaoulGMI/status/2043832901121331527 

https://x.com/Matt_Hougan/status/2044095946334843168

https://x.com/JustDeauIt/status/2044127128296313079

https://x.com/benjamincowen/status/2044114246187851783

https://x.com/JoshKale/status/2044425507203166292

https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/2044423401763127512

https://x.com/LizAnnSonders/status/2043664934559420916

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UMCSENT

https://x.com/perry8888_/status/2044168141148655773

https://x.com/WatcherGuru/status/2044375033909264873

https://polymarket.com/event/how-many-fed-rate-cuts-in-2026/?via=bankless?

30:41 Saylor STRC / Bitcoin Bid & ETH Treasury Race (Tom Lee / Bitmine)

https://x.com/LynAldenContact/status/2043736183578972443

https://x.com/AdamBLiv/status/2043809798035255790

https://x.com/STRC_live/status/2044029951410635132

https://x.com/pythianism/status/2044425651890147507

https://x.com/nic_carter/status/2044461949895819559

https://x.com/AltcoinDaily/status/2044492873803116649 

https://x.com/fundstrat/status/2043683094914335191

https://www.strategicethreserve.xyz/

https://cointelegraph.com/news/ether-machine-spac-ethm-cancelled-dynamix-merger

https://x.com/CryptosR_Us/status/2044507049648697717

46:24 World Liberty Financial (FTX-style risk)

https://x.com/DefiIgnas/status/2042520040562639186

55:22 SEC DeFi Ruling (Bull Case) 

https://x.com/SECGov/status/2043739582273855635 

https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/2043754533545746884

https://x.com/intangiblecoins/status/2043709926556492190

58:39 Bitcoin Quantum Plan (BIP-361)

https://x.com/BitcoinArchive/status/2044319025711255985

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0361.mediawiki

https://www.bip361.org/

https://x.com/lopp/status/2044406134178795748

1:02:53 Closing & Disclaimers

---

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

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Why has the dollar remained dominant despite rising debt, geopolitical strain, and growing challengers?

Barry Eichengreen joins Bankless to trace the history of global reserve currencies. From Spanish silver and the Byzantine solidus to sterling and the modern dollar, Barry explains the conditions that make a currency rise, endure, and eventually fall.

We explore fiscal discipline, rule of law, military power, gold, China, and crypto to understand what history suggests about the dollar’s future.

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🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT

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🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS

https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD

https://bankless.cc/brix

------

TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro

5:11 Spanish Pieces of ape

14:58 Solidus

18:56 International Currency Status

29:32 The Fall of International Currencies

33:27 The Fall of The US Dollar

41:38 What’s Special about the Dollar?

47:39 Theoretical Currencies

51:09 US Dollar Dominance Consequences

59:39 When will the Dollar Fall?

1:03:09 US Dollar Competitors

1:08:32 Gold

1:14:08 Bitcoin & Crypto

1:18:23 Closing & Disclaimers

------
RESOURCES

Barry Eichengreen

https://x.com/B_Eichengreen

Money Beyond Borders: Global Currencies from Croesus to Crypto

https://www.amazon.com/Money-Beyond-Borders-Currencies-Croesus/dp/0691280533 

------

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠ 

Has crypto already bottomed, or is more pain still ahead? Mike and Ryan break down the bull and bear case in full, from Bitcoin fair value and market structure to global liquidity, AI demand, and the macro risks still hanging over markets. Mike explains why he thinks the setup still looks more like a bear market than a new uptrend, even if the odds are close. It’s a sharp episode on how to navigate a market that could break either way.

Michael Nadeau & The DeFi Report:

https://x.com/JustDeauIt
https://thedefireport.io/bankless 

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🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW

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🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT

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🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS

https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD

https://bankless.cc/brix

---

TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro

1:18 Understanding the crypto cycle

3:23 The wealth destruction phase

5:30 Defining the current market conditions

8:14 Reflecting on past market battles

11:15 The four-year cycle explained

13:19 The impact of liquidity cycles

17:12 Analyzing the S&P and market health

20:34 The bullish case for crypto

24:07 Exploring on-chain metrics

27:16 The bear case outlined

32:14 The difficulty of market navigation

44:26 Summarizing the bearish perspective

48:12 Market uncertainty

59:54 Closing & disclaimers

---

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

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Michael Saylor thinks Bitcoin is headed to $21 million, but the real story in this conversation is how he believes it gets there. In his first appearance on Bankless, Saylor breaks down Strategy’s evolving capital machine, why STRC may be the most ambitious instrument the company has built yet, how he thinks about quantum risk without panic, why his view on Ethereum has become more constructive, and what he means when he says the endgame is giving the world an 8% bank account forever.

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🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS
https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN
https://bankless.cc/megaeth

---
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro
1:00 Michael Saylor’s $21M Bitcoin thesis
4:33 What has to go right for Bitcoin to get there
11:00 Has Bitcoin adoption stalled out?
13:20 Why STRC became Strategy’s breakout product
18:05 The pitch behind a Bitcoin-backed money market
21:13 How STRC is engineered to stay stable
27:31 Where the 11.5% yield comes from
36:35 Is Strategy taking too much risk?
46:50 Does Strategy ever stop buying Bitcoin?
58:48 Quantum, panic, and the Bitcoin response
1:16:18 Michael Saylor on Ethereum today
1:25:46 “Fix the money, fix the world”
1:38:39 The crypto reactor and Strategy’s endgame

---
RESOURCES

Michael Saylor
https://x.com/saylor

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
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Markets are rallying on a fragile Iran ceasefire, but the real risks may be getting closer.

David and Haseeb break down Anthropic’s secretive new AI model and why it could expose vulnerabilities across crypto, from smart contracts to core blockchain infrastructure, plus the growing divide around “Q-Day” and how urgent the quantum threat really is.

They also unpack Iran’s unexpected use of Bitcoin in global trade, the White House’s stance on stablecoin yields, and why the market feels stable on the surface while bigger risks continue to build.

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🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW

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🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT

https://bankless.cc/bitget

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS

https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN

https://bankless.cc/megaeth

---

TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES

0:00 Intro

1:56 Ceasefire in Iran

https://images.wsj.net/im-97657631 

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2041728989119529307

https://x.com/WatcherGuru/status/2041867478033195336

15:43 Two Polymarkets of Relevance

https://polymarket.com/event/iran-x-israelus-conflict-ends-by/?via=bankless?

70% chance the conflict ends by April 30

https://polymarket.com/event/will-the-us-invade-iran-before-2027/?via=bankless?

30% chance!

17:50 Anthropic Releases Project Glasswing 

https://x.com/AnthropicAI/status/2041578392852517128

https://red.anthropic.com/2026/mythos-preview/

https://x.com/DarioAmodei/status/2041580338426585171

https://x.com/hosseeb/status/2041579488224657581

https://x.com/kevinsxu/status/2042065892658258357

https://x.com/nic_carter/status/2041256570462326843

48:49 Satoshi is Adam Back?

57:44 The White House Weighs in on the Stablecoin Yield Debate

https://www.whitehouse.gov/research/2026/04/effects-of-stablecoin-yield-prohibition-on-bank-lending/

1:02:04 $MON trading above ICO price!

https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/monad

1:05:47 Closing & Disclaimers

---

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

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Can Ethereum become one economic zone again?

Martin Koppelmann and Friederike Ernst from Gnosis explain how real-time proving and the Ethereum Economic Zone could reconnect fragmented rollups, unify liquidity, and give specialized chains seamless access to Ethereum’s settlement and security.

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🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS
https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN
https://bankless.cc/megaeth

------

TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro

0:18 Fixing Fragmentation

7:49 Ethereum Economic Zone Explained

26:19 EEZ Thin Layer

30:30 Block Builders

33:06 The Bull Case

35:18 Ethereum Reorg

42:56 Layer2 EEZ Adoption

50:47 A New Age for Builders

55:54 How to Get Involved

57:42 EEZ Rollout

1:00:51 Closing & Disclaimers

------
RESOURCES

Martin Koppelman

https://x.com/koeppelmann 

Friederike Ernst

https://x.com/tw_tter 

EEZ

https://eez.io/ 

EEZ GitHub

https://github.com/eez-association 

Gnosis

https://www.gnosis.io/ 

------

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠ 

NYSE and Securitize are laying the rails to bring real, issuer-backed securities onchain. 

Michael Blaugrund of NYSE and Carlos Domingo of Securitize break down how blockchain-native equities could work in practice: transfer agents, tokenized issuance, interoperable trading infrastructure, 24/7 markets, and what it will take for public stocks to move from legacy rails to crypto rails. T

They also explore how onchain equities could unlock faster settlement, better shareholder utility, and new DeFi use cases without sacrificing regulatory compliance.

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🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW

https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 

🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT

https://bankless.cc/bitget

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS

https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN

https://bankless.cc/megaeth

------

TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro

0:52 NYSE x Securitize Partnership

4:57 Digital Transfer Agent

8:39 Blockchain Infrastructure

11:07 NYSE Alternative Trading System

17:01 Every NYSE Asset?

22:30 Portability & KYC

33:38 RWA Decentralization Debate

38:47 New NYSE Paradigm

44:46 24/7 365 Markets

48:03 Clarity Act

52:21 Issuer Choice

57:08 Tokenized Securities vs Perpetuals

1:00:24 Securitize Going Public

1:03:20 When Launch

1:04:04 Closing & Disclaimers

------
RESOURCES

Carlos Domingo

https://x.com/carlosdomingo 

Michael Blaugrund

https://x.com/mblaugrund 

Securitize

https://securitize.io/ 

RWA Decentralization Debate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-h-PeUOvDw

------

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠

What if Bitcoin’s biggest strength becomes its fatal weakness? Nic Carter joins Bankless to unpack why the latest quantum papers changed the threat model, why a 2029 migration window could leave Bitcoin dangerously behind, what a real post-quantum transition would require, and why the fight over Satoshi’s dormant coins may become the most explosive governance battle in Bitcoin history.

---
🎬 DEBRIEF | RYAN & DAVID UNPACKING THE EPISODE
https://www.bankless.com/podcast/debrief-bitcoin-has-3-years-to-survive-nic-carter

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🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS
https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN
https://bankless.cc/megaeth

---
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Nic Carter’s Stark Warning
3:55 Bitcoin’s Status Quo Problem
9:36 The New Quantum Papers
12:07 When Breakthroughs Go Dark
16:28 “We will not get significant prior notice”
21:24 The 9-Minute Attack
31:33 Why 2029 suddenly matters
34:24 Post-Quantum Tradeoffs
46:03 Why Bitcoin Isn’t Reacting
52:21 The Satoshi coin problem
1:02:54 Nic’s salvage-law alternative
1:10:13 Why Ethereum looks more prepared
1:12:25 Does Bitcoin Survive?

---
RESOURCES

Nic Carter
https://x.com/nic_carter

Nic’s takeaways from quantum papers
https://murmurationstwo.substack.com/p/my-takeaways-from-googles-and-oratomics

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures