Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm Collins

In this episode, we dive deep into the stunning US military operation "Absolute Resolve" that captured Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro on January 3, 2026. We analyze the viral testimony from a Maduro loyalist security guard (shared by White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt), which describes overwhelming US tech: sudden radar blackout, massive drone swarms that retaliate only against shooters, a tiny team of ~20 elite soldiers dropped from just 8 helicopters, and a mysterious "intense sound wave" weapon causing nosebleeds, vomiting, and immobilization.We break down what's plausible (confirmed US capabilities like LRAD acoustic devices, microwave systems, jamming of Russian/Chinese radar like S-300 & JY-27), what's experimental, and why this feels like "Space Marines" vs. conventional forces. We also compare it to Israeli spycraft (e.g., pager ops), discuss future multipolar world dynamics (US vs. Israel as dominant powers?), and explore emerging warfare trends like autonomous drone swarms.This is scary, impressive, and potentially game-changing. What do you think — real next-level tech or exaggeration?Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are gonna be doing an analysis of the US raid on Venezuela, what US’ military capabilities are, because we’ve done some on Israel’s military capabilities, which are, it may be maybe less impressive. We’ll talk about the two in comparison in a second.

And what the future of war is going to be like from this and the piece I’m gonna read, it’s scary. It’s scary. The, the first thing that you’re going to think when you hear this, and the first thing I saw when I heard this piece is, this is fake. This, this cannot be real. Where’s your source?

Right?

Simone Collins: So, oh, no, I immediately thought of the w was it Cuban? Embassy. Russian Embassy. Yeah. That was later

Malcolm Collins: proven fake. Oh,

Simone Collins: yeah, it was, but I

Malcolm Collins: still, okay. But th this is when I heard this, I thought, or at least I’m skeptical, like I’m not gonna present this on the show unless I dug into it. So I did a lot.

Of digging on this. Mm-hmm. To try to find where it came from to try to find, if it’s a credible source, to try to find if it’s plausible with what we [00:01:00] know, a raid within this location might be. Here’s what we do know and why I do think it’s plausible. Yeah. For two reasons. One is the secretary Carolyn Levitt.

This is Press Secretary tweeted this. Right. So if the White House Press Secretary is tweeting an account of what happened during the raid, and it is completely fictional and out of line, was she knows what happened during that raid. Yeah. At the very least, right? Like the people who approve this, that had to go to somebody for approval.

You don’t tweet about what happened during a raid. It a. May have, and this is what’s really interesting because after digging, digging, digging, the version of this that went viral is the version she shared. Okay. Oh, I eventually found the original leak.

Simone Collins: Oh, the person, the guard one of Maduro’s guards actually reporting his experience

Malcolm Collins: actually recording this.

Yeah. So it turns out this is plausible. It is likely real, and parts of it are left [00:02:00] out in the version that the White House tweeted that went viral in right-wing circles. And as such, my, my read of why did parts of it gets left out is though they’re the military capabilities they don’t want you to know about.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: The biggest part of it that was left out that I found really interesting is the guy notes that the drone swarm that was all of a sudden around them, out of nowhere. Yeah. That whenever anyone tried to shoot at it, it would shoot them, but otherwise it left people alone. And well, I didn’t read

Simone Collins: about that.

Ooh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Well,

Malcolm Collins: because that’s only in the Spanish. Interview. Right. You wouldn’t know. Didn’t know.

And this is actually a really clever way to design them from a military tactics perspective because it makes your opponent, you know, you might have a hundred men armed and ready or willing to shoot if you’re just shooting at everyone. You know, regardless, everyone has a motivation to shoot back, right?

Because they’re going to be shot if they don’t. But now if they see that only the people that are shooting are being shot back. They have a motivation to just like drop their [00:03:00] weapons and run. , I’d also note here that we learned from the, the deeper interview that there were two types of drones. One would immediately shoot back, and then the second type would, , sort of mark a person and then fly a drone to where they were later.

Malcolm Collins: So we doubt, we now know how it worked h how this led to people dying. And right, because

Simone Collins: the, the US government, if I recall correctly, reported around 80 people were killed in the extraction. A

Malcolm Collins: aura, from what I heard, no.

American. I heard 80 soldiers. And this, this transcript said a hundred. Yeah. Could there have been additional. Might a person have exaggerated. Yeah. The other thing that’s in the initial transcript that’s not in this transcript that she shared is he was talking about how he, and, and we’ll get into this more and other people in the groups that he’s familiar with are actually turning in their weapons because they’re so scared.

What I can say is that this person is actually a Venezuelan. This is not like made by, if it’s, if it’s [00:04:00] fake. Somebody in Venezuela made this fake, which seems like a very dangerous thing to do in a place like Venezuela, right? It seems much more likely that this is a real leak. And note this has been reported on by Fox News Times of Indi India, indie tv, New York Post, et cetera.

Okay? Mm-hmm. Although they, they also were unable to hard confirm it.

Just as a side note, the most unbelievable piece of this has since this story happened, been confirmed as true, , which basically means everything else is likely true. , Specifically there are a number of sites, , like futurism and CNN politics, which, , confirm that the Pentagon bought a device. , That is what’s linked to Havana Syndrome.

That has the capability to knock out people and cause them to basically fall over vomiting and, and pain. I.

Malcolm Collins: Alright, so. On the day of the operation, we didn’t hear anything coming. We were on guard, but [00:05:00] suddenly all of our radar systems shut down without any explanation. The next thing we saw were drones. A lot of drones flying over our position.

We didn’t know how to react.

Simone Collins: Hmm. Run for cover, obviously.

Malcolm Collins: Right. It said be terrified because we’re gonna go over where they got all these radio systems in a second. They came from, these are top of the line systems from China and Russia. Mm-hmm. Which are the two main people we may fight. So this is what it would be like to China if the US came.

Right? Like this is why places like China are. Taking dumps in their pants right now because this was Chinese equipment that was there functionally as a test, right? Like, and, and actually it’s specifically the radio equipment was Chinese equipment. So that’s, that’s chilling and we’ll talk about that actually the specific line, because we know the equipment that they were using that all went out.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay.

Malcolm Collins: They refer to it in the transcript when other people heard this in the interviewer. It’s not really an interviewer either. Two people having a [00:06:00] conversation on what looks like WhatsApp. Oh. So what happened next? How was the main attack after the drones appeared? Some helicopters arrived, but there were very few, I think barely ate helicopters.

From those helicopters, soldiers came down, but a very small number, maybe 20 men. But those men were technologically very advanced and they didn’t look like anything we’d fought against before. Face Marines. Yeah, basically. No, not face Marines. They got hundreds of people, Americans coming in with just like a few helicopters.

And our version of like war hammer space, Marines are dropping in, you know, God’s on the battlefield compared to what they’re going against here. But anyways. And the, and then the battle began. The person asked, and he goes, yes, but it was a massacre. We were hundreds, but we had no chance. They were shooting with such precision and speed.

It seemed like each soldier was firing 300 rounds per minute. We couldn’t do anything. And then he says, and your your own weapons, they [00:07:00] didn’t help. And the guard says, no, no help at all, because it wasn’t just the weapons. At one point they launched something, I don’t know how to describe it. It was like a very intense sound wave.

Suddenly I felt like my head was exploding from the inside. We all started bleeding from the nose. Some were vomiting, blood, we fell to the ground, unable to move. And then the person, that’s the part that I’d read and looked up. And your comrades we’re gonna go into what that could have been. Mm-hmm. Did they manage to resist?

And the guard says, no, not at all. Those 20 men without a single casualty killed hundreds of us. We had no way to compete with their technology with their weapons. I swear I’ve never seen anything like it. We couldn’t even stand up after that sonic weapon or whatever was. And the interviewer says, so do you think the rest of the region should think twice before confronting the Americans?

And the security guard goes without a doubt. I’m sending warning to anyone who thinks they can fight the United States. They have no idea what they’re capable of after what I saw. I never want to be on the other side of that again. They’re not to be messed with. And then the interviewer says, now that Trump has [00:08:00] said, Mexico is on the list, do you think the situation will change in Latin America?

And the security guard says, definitely Everyone is already talking about this. No one wants to go through what we just went through. Now everyone thinks twice what happened here is going to change a lot of things, not just in Venezuela, but throughout the region. Mm-hmm. So. If we’re we now wanna go into the plausibility of this, the technology that we know about, the technology that we don’t know about I have been very surprised that a lot of right-wingers are just covering this completely uncritically.

And if the other interview I find from the Venezuelan isn’t a mistranslation or an edited translation, it means that we’re getting another story of the account that’s just incredibly similar, but has a number of elements quite different. Mm-hmm. But not inconsistent with the story, which would imply that multiple people went through this.

And so this is what these people experienced. But I just wanna put yourself in these people’s shoes at this point. First, all of your. Radar and satellite equipment goes out.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: That you’re at every day. Then you see [00:09:00] a drone, well, hold on,

Simone Collins: Venezuela, that’s not, I mean, you know,

Malcolm Collins: that may happen more.

Yeah. Then you see a drone sworn fly by. Yeah. That’s with hundreds of drones. Anybody who shoots at them is immediately shot. You then see, yeah. A few helicopters come by, drop maybe 20 something guys. You move to engage them and all of a sudden everyone has fallen to the ground and is bleeding from their nose and you’re in incomparable pain.

They walk by likely just shooting anyone who resists. I doubt that they were shooting everyone given the relatively, you know, the like 40 to 80 casualties that’s being reported here. And although it could have been way more, you know, these, I put

Simone Collins: it in 80 to a hundred, like has been reported and I mean, come on.

I’m not gonna sit around and do a body count as they’re extracting Maduro. So of course it’s inaccurate.

Malcolm Collins: Who cares? And this, this explains how, how we were able to get this right. And I also love how different it is from the well if you look at our video of like using the page bomber attacks where we [00:10:00] do an analysis of how Israel put that together or they, no, the pager bombs, the pager thing was amazing.

Amazing. They just took out like all of Hezbollah on like two. Yeah, well they just

Simone Collins: planted incendiary devices. They’re major adversaries over a years’ long process. Well, but it was, was better than

Malcolm Collins: that. Then they, it’s camped out at like, they had recordings at all of the places where they could go to get new pagers.

After that, they monitored the hospitals after that, right? So everyone who was reacting to this, they were immediately able to trace them and all of their networks. So it was like deeper than just a, oh, and now we kill them with the pagers. Is anyone who is tied to this, who, who goes to the hospital rooms with an explosion?

You know, they were able to put people in place before all of this, right? Mm-hmm. Like, but what we did was such overwhelming power in a completely different way with Israel. It was like crafty, superhuman spy craft with America. It’s like. Over the [00:11:00] top. We don’t care about what we do at this point. And I think that that’s why they’re using all this technology here.

Like technology, super soldier craft. Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s a, it, the two factions are so different. That it would be fun to have them be different in a video game. Like if, if we were playing a video game actually a, a video game where you have like isometric forces, which I always like to play those games, you know, like the old, like command and conquer generals or something like that.

Where every faction is played entirely differently because they play entirely differently. Mm-hmm. That, that you’re seeing. Two entirely different factions in terms of their specializations here, which is really cool because we’ve talked about this with our fans on our fan chat, and I’ll do a separate video on it.

But I suspect that we will eventually enter a multipolar world where the two dominant powers that are left are the United States and Israel. Because Israel is obviously gonna be a dominant power in the future. If you look at their AI capabilities, if you look at their birth rate, if you look at who’s having those kids because they, they [00:12:00] do have a lot of like secular high tech people having those kids.

You look at their existing technological capabilities and you look at the collapse of Europe, the collapse of China, the collapse of Russia, the collapse of Latin America, the collapse of Africa, who else is on the table, but America and Israel, right? Like those are the two players that are left, and you very rarely have multipolar world without some degree of confrontation between them.

And I was talking about what does that conflict look like? And I don’t think it looks anything like con because like if you look at like what it looks like when we were fighting the Nazis versus fighting the communists in Russia, right? Like mm-hmm. The totally different. Games of what that looked like.

If you look at like the Spycraft world of fighting Russia versus fighting the ccp, it’s a completely different world, right? If you look at what it’s going to look like, if there’s conflict with Israel, that’s gonna be a completely different world. Mm-hmm. And frankly, I think a better world in the same way that I think that we were better off fighting.

The communist in Russia than we were fighting the Nazis. And I think that we were better off fighting the CCP than we were having a conflict with Russia. We’re gonna be better off with a, you know, a [00:13:00] Multipolar America, Israel world even if that does lead to conflict of interest than we are with a multipolar United States and CCP world.

Simone Collins: Oh, incontrovertibly, yes.

Malcolm Collins: But they’re gonna be a, a lot more competent in terms of spycraft than anyone else ‘cause they’ve already shown that. But anyway let’s go into this, like what do we know is real and what isn’t? So, an analyst was saying, okay, so the radar jamming we know is real. The first wave of drones we know is real sound directed energy.

We, weapons we know are real. The small number of rotary ring aircraft is not just real, but we know that they reported it. The small special ops team we know is real, but that’s what was reported. Yeah. The directed energy attack is the one like, do we know about this? Like, is this basically everything here checks out?

The only thing that doesn’t like that is like, do they have that technology yet? We’ll get to it more in a bit. Is the directed energy weapon attack? We totally do. I know we have this technology, we’ve had directed energy weapons for about, I wanna say two decades, at least at this point. Yes. Yes. The [00:14:00] idea that we wouldn’t deploy them in a situation like this is just like why?

Yeah. We also know about a laser weapon from the boat that we’ll get to in a second. Mm-hmm.

Now, for, from, from the systems that were shut down Russia provided their S 300 VM ground troop air missiles which is one of Russia’s most advanced aircraft platforms. China provided Venezuela with their JY 2 27 A Steals hunter radar system.

This is their top of the line platform, which they sell under the, both that it can allegedly track the US most advanced F 35 and f. 22 stealth fighters. This is what they were using. Every single one of those. And this is actually even more chilling than if we just took out Russia or we just took out China.

Mm-hmm. Because Russia alone wouldn’t have the top of the line China systems. China alone isn’t gonna have the top of the line Russian systems. Venezuela had the top of the line, both systems. And now people know

Simone Collins: they had what they could get.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no. We [00:15:00] literally know because these two countries bragged about giving them these systems in, in diplomatic like envoys, like we know the exact systems.

That’s why I was saying they have the JY 2278 stealth hunter radar system from China and the S 300 VM ground air. I know. I still think these are the

Simone Collins: equivalent of Russia, Russian, and Chinese hand-me-downs of old systems that they don’t use anymore and wouldn’t use and are getting rid of because they have something better.

Makes sense. Maybe

Malcolm Collins: they have something secret that’s better, but

Simone is right. They’re considered mid-tier and not top tier systems. I heard this wrong.

Malcolm Collins: but

Simone Collins: I would, I’m 98% sure that they have something better. I would not be

Malcolm Collins: surprised

Simone Collins: you wouldn’t give your best to Venezuela. No one’s giving their best if Venezuela isn’t giving their best to, well, you’ve gotta understand if they didn’t,

Malcolm Collins: how bad this makes them look on the public stage because they publicly said, we’re giving Venezuela our best.

Simone Collins: Well, of course they are because they’re, oh, I’m, no, but [00:16:00] what this means, they’re not

Malcolm Collins: one, they lose face, but two across Latin America, anybody who’s like, do I side with the US in this power struggle or do I side with the enemies of the United States is rethinking things right now. And that’s

Simone Collins: meaningful because China does have their sticky fingers all over Latin America.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And by the way, if you’re wondering, when I, when I talk about like the future where the CCP isn’t in power anymore and Russia is clearly collapsing, mean, look at their fertility rates combined with their war that they’re having right now. I’m not saying like this because I’m antagonistic to Israel or anything like that.

I’m just saying you, when you have two world powers they’re, they’re going to have conflicts, especially in the worlds of like spycraft and alliances and everything like that, right. Of like, that’s just the reality of the world, right? That’s, that’s not like because they’re bad. You if, if, if you are the two big daddy players on the world stage you know, you’re, you’re gonna have differences of opinions and those play out often through Spycraft as they [00:17:00] already are.

Yeah. If we manage to stay friends as two world powers, like, like a completely allied as two world powers that would be a very. I mean, I would hope for that, a very interesting world for the perspective of everyone else. Because what that means is that, that the world is basically completely under the thumb of one world power potentially more so than it was under the thumb of America after World War ii.

Like that is just complete world domination at that point.

Simone Collins: I, I still don’t, I don’t see that as the most likely outcome. I see. The United States concentrating power in the Americas and really shoring up the American, like the Americas, north America and South America and Central America as just a region that is it’s safe zone and not, not harboring hostile entities.

And basically really focusing on shutting down any hostile activity [00:18:00] within that region. But then kind of just letting Europe and China and Russia slide into obsolescence slowly while having links, having squabbles among, among themselves while they undergo both forced AI obsolescence and demographic collapse.

At the same time, with China only remaining, we’re maintaining some form of strategic advantage for longer than the other countries because it is investing so heavily in ai, in innovation. The EU has demographic apps and it’s stifling AI and innovation, so it’s gonna go first. Russia’s screwed. We all know that.

I, I, I’m not even considering them a contender. But, and India. Is seeing massive fertility drops, and I think they’re just not there technologically to be a major contender. So really what we’re gonna end up with is, is China kind of trying to throw around its weight, but ultimately not having what it needs.

Possibly though, [00:19:00] possibly though doing interesting things. Who knows?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But to continue here with these systems of what could have been described here there’s the long range acoustic device, LRAD. Yeah. The LRAD is a commercially available acoustic hailing device used by the US military, Navy, and police forces, and a mixed focus hides in city sound waves up to 162 decibels and a narrow beam like a sound cannon.

Mm-hmm. This doesn’t seem to be what he described, but it could be what he described. I mean, he described it as like a, a boom in his head. Right. Well there are all

Simone Collins: sorts of wave emitting devices that could do all sorts of things like with homeschooling Octavian and I went this whole, through this whole thing about various wavelengths and spectrum.

Because you wanted to know how the microwave worked, and that led down this whole rabbit hole. And we learned about like the varying degrees of how different types of wavelengths can affect the human body or liquids or different forms of matter. It it, it’s just super self-evident that, you know, you could get to the right kind of wavelength and strength [00:20:00] that could make, that could cause heavy internal bleeding, which is what happened here.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So what this would cause if it was used on people is intense pain and pressure in the heads slash ears.

Simone Collins: Yep.

Malcolm Collins: And a whistle or, or, or sound wave disorientation, nausea and immobilization. Victims often describe it as an unbearable noise causing them to drop and cover their ears. In extreme cases, it could lead to nose bleeding barrow trauma where pressure damages blood vessels in the sinuses and eardrums or vomiting from vestibular disruption.

Basically it’s, it disrupting their inner ear and it’s causing vomiting. So this could explain why he saw everyone start vomiting and fall over. But no, no, I’m, I’m, I’m just noting here, like, we know this has been used by ground forces in Iraq, on Somali pirates and stuff like that during protests like this is, this is an old school system at this point, right?

But it doesn’t, Hey, I wonder why

Simone Collins: it’s not used more

Malcolm Collins: unless it was a more advanced system or used at, at a higher level. Which of course I don’t see why we shouldn’t expect it to be. Yeah. Like it could cause these symptoms. [00:21:00] It doesn’t often cause blood and vomiting. But it seemed like they didn’t care about doing long-term damage and the way that they use it at this point and more, normally this is used against protesters and stuff like that as a nonviolent system.

Mm-hmm. But this time they basically rejiggered what could have been this old non, we’ll talk about what else? It could be an old nonviolent system for violent action. Mm-hmm. When they do not hear if people survive. Mm-hmm. And that’s a very interesting use of this system. Mm-hmm. Is to be like, okay, let’s just knock everyone out in this region, then move over.

Interesting way to think about it. ‘cause normally when you think about a system that doesn’t kill people, you’re like, why would I use that when I have bullets? Right? Yeah. And it’s like, well, because it can flood an entire room, right? Yeah. And you can just go through and tap everyone, right? Mm-hmm. Okay, so the next one here, it could have been a direct microwave energy weapon called an a DS or an Active Denial System. This is called a heat ray in US military. It’s a non leal weapon that projects a millimeter wave 95. Give the hurts or whatever heat rate to the skin surface, creating an intense burning sensation without penetration.

And [00:22:00] it’s a vehicle or aircraft mountain, it would’ve felt like heat, pain, disorientation and immobilization skin feels like it’s on fire. It can cause nausea and, and vomiting. But it sounds less like the descriptions. No. Yeah,

Simone Collins: because he describes this high pitched,

Malcolm Collins: and it’s been used since the 2000, so again, like 25 years this has been used.

Mm-hmm. Another thing that this could have been is a low frequency acoustic weapon. These are sub audible frequencies below 20 hertz that resonate within body organs. It, it creates an internal exploding sensation, nausea and vomiting blood. That’s what this

Simone Collins: sounds like. That’s what I thought it was

Malcolm Collins: immobilization resonance within lungs, stomach, and the brain, which he mentioned.

Yeah. Yeah. Brain from the, the nose in ears pressure from sinuses, it was, sounds incredibly unpleasant. Explored by UA and Russian militaries. And it, it’s been explored back to World War II as sound cannons. However, I don’t know if we’re aware of this ever actually being deployed before.

So this would be a new technology of this, what it was deployed. And then [00:23:00] finally, other direct energy weapons could be a high powered microwave or a pulse energy projection. But these, these follow the pain threshold yet. So, if I was gonna guess what it is gonna say is it’s a novel application of LRAD which are usually used more for like protesters and more like when you care if the person lives.

Whereas this was not used in that capacity. This was just let’s, let’s have this happen. Let’s talk about the laser on the boat that people were talking about. Yeah, what I hadn’t heard about this. Interesting. So, the, the high energy laser, it was integrated optical dazzler and surveillance.

Helios is a 60 K laser on a destroyer, like A-U-S-S-S per parabola used for droner missile defense or dazzling sensors. It’s silent, precise, and could shoot a fire at targets like boats. And then we’re also familiar with the laser weapon system, the LAWS or laws. It’s an older system that was tested on the USS punts now evolved into Helios.

[00:24:00] So, yeah, we’ve got this as well. And there have been reports of this being fired. Now I wanna go into the direct translation of the report that I found that, that I pulled from the original videos. Spanish. It’s true. They’re going to do all that. What else is left? We don’t have an option anymore. They have more technology, much more armament. We are not prepared here today. People were returning the rifles that they were voluntarily delivered. These are basically rifles that, like paramilitary groups were given by the Venezuela government, which again, is something you probably wouldn’t know about if you aren’t in one of these groups.

This again, doesn’t sound like a hoax. It sounds like somebody in one of these groups talking about this. He said, people want nothing. People don’t wanna fight. It was pretty bad what happened in Caracas. We were neutralized all of our strengths. They turned off the whole electrical system. They took down all of our radars.

People were very afraid. When someone shot them, a drone immediately detected it and died or killed everyone. In January 23rd, there was one hit that got hit by a guapo. [00:25:00] He fired his gun at him. The drone came back for some time to shoot another bomb and then flew halfway around. There are many dead. A lot of people burned and injured, approximately a hundred deaths.

Okay, so this is interesting ‘cause here we’re getting a better understanding of how these drones worked. It appeared, the drones operated in two ways. They could either hear when you fired and then immediately return to fire where the. Shots were coming from, but then there appeared to be a separate class of drones that would track who had fired for a while if they weren’t taken down by the first class of drones.

Then come at them with bombs and attempt to bomb them later, right? Like so they were being tracked by AI after shooting. Keep in mind our video, where we talk about the US right now, planning to have done by the end of the year an autonomous. Manufacturing ship for autonomous drones. So a ship that endlessly manufactures autonomous gun drones and bomb drones like this.

This is what they’re like when you, it really [00:26:00] does feel like a random, like 21st century human tech planet was attacked by fricking Ironman. Like a, a swarm of Ironman or yeah, just Space Marines. Just space Marines. And they just, space Marines leave demoralized. Like it’s not even worth it anymore. Like they were so far ahead of us.

It was comical. Now you can ask why, why we don’t use this stuff everywhere. Frankly, because I think that two things happen. One is, is this was an especially carried out by basically the presidential administration. Like they needed this to go right. This likely had very high level security looking at it very, very closely.

And second, it was done by Trump’s team who one has a bunch of tech nerds on it as people know. And two has the type of people who like trying experimental technology. Like the, so I, I bet in the past, if you’re in Obama administration or something like that. You, you say, Hey, we’ve got this experimental thing [00:27:00] that we might be able to use to like paralyze a large crowd.

It’s never been used publicly before. It could cause long-term damage to people. Like, and we risk having it captured if we put it into use. You know, these are a bunch of old, you know, white guy, let’s be honest, or DEI hires that have played it safe at literally every step of their life. And they get that and they say, well then let’s not approve that use.

Right. You know, you’re doing the Osama raid or something like that. You put this to the Trump administration, like, we’ve done consulting for the Trump administration. We’ve gone to their White House. I know who their people are. They’re young people. They’re, they’re like our community. They, they didn’t staff it with a bunch of like Washington insiders, right?

These people are like a bunch of people who grew up or, or love playing like video games where they have like the most advanced weapons and everything and you ask them this stuff and they’re like, oh yeah man, and make sure you film it. Like, I’m gonna be masturbating to this tonight, like, make sure I can take this home on USB.

Right? Like, I, I wanna, I wanna see them all fall and [00:28:00] squirm. Right?

Simone Collins: I did appreciate Trump talking about how it was like watching it as a TV show or something. And Mar-a-Lago. Very entertaining.

Malcolm Collins: So then he says Venezuela has never trained us against a drone. We don’t have drones. No technology.

The speeds of those helicopters. Never, we’ve never seen a helicopter with that much speed, unless some of our houses here was out roofed, left fallen trees. Oh, this must be a separate account actually, but it’s so similar to the other account. I’m just left believing that the other account is accurate.

Mm-hmm. He said a helicopter that was going at one speed never seen, not even us. We have had a helicopter of that here. It’s too far away, although I tell you honestly, well, the tights really, they’re too much, too power. And there were only eight helicopters. Imagine if they sent 200 helicopters, the 3000 airplanes, they just sent eight helicopters, destroyed All of Caracas, destroyed all the military base.

They disarmed the missile base. There were eight helicopters. Imagine [00:29:00] if they had sent thousands of helicopters that they have them. Well, friends, meanwhile it says comment spread, et cetera. But the point here being is what’s interesting about this, and this is why I think that this is a separate but collaborating encounter, is he didn’t talk about the directed energy weapons.

His, his, his answer seems the same in every other. All our radar shut down then a drone swarm then 20 helicopters was very few men. And we had no effing clue what was going on. But this has more on what it was like to fight the drones. My guess is that this is somebody who was stationed further away from Maduro, and the other one was somebody who was stationed closer to Maduro.

Well, yeah, my,

Simone Collins: my impression is that the directed what long range acoustic devices were used when on people who were going to be passed by, by the, the troops to extracted Maduro. So if they were close Maduro and on the ground, and troops were about to pass by you, you were gonna be subject to that.

Whereas on the ground. [00:30:00] Far away. Yeah. To,

Malcolm Collins: to, to be more aware of how these systems work. And what this basically means is happening here is they, they use high energy waves or high sound waves. And that means that they’re not gonna be able to pass through solid objects very easily. So they were likely mounted on the helicopters themselves.

This is my guess as to what was happening. Mm. And there was a team that was controlling them from the helicopters and aiming them from the helicopters so that they could be fired from above to neutralize outdoor targets. Because remember, Maduro did not mention something like this, but he was captured while he was indoors.

So I do not think that, for example, they had a team member. Was this like following behind them or a tank was this following behind them? I think they had people drop and then from above they’re basically painting any of the groups of resistance they still see. Was this before this, the first thing they send in is these drone swarms that appeared to be in two types.

One reactively fires at anything that fires at it. Which is a really smart way to handle this, right? So you don’t have unnecessary [00:31:00] casualties. And the other is, remember, anybody who fires back, track them, bomb them. Mm-hmm. Which again, like anyone who’s used modern AI knows we can do this. Like you could easily put this on a drop.

Well, so

Simone Collins: I looked this up. When I first read about this, I, my, my primary interest was can I buy one and can I defend myself from one? And, and unfortunately, please chime into the comments or to email us if you could find one. I was directed to a company called Genesis, G-E-N-A-S-Y-S, that does sell LAD equipment, but on their website.

And maybe that you just gotta call them and prove that you have a lot of money and then they direct you to the cool stuff like, you know, on the top shelf. But most of their online marketing. Revolves around basically on the ground, emergency based directed communication enabling you to, [00:32:00] you know, coordinate and communicate in active shooter situations.

So your

Malcolm Collins: first thought when you heard this isn’t, oh, the US military is awesome, which is what every guy is thinking. Your first thought when you read this is, how do I get that myself? Obviously, how do I fight against that? How do I form an autonomous military and go take over some African country?

That’s your first thought.

Simone Collins: Well, yes, I love your agency. That wasn’t

Malcolm Collins: an ounce of your agency ‘cause that’s so cool.

Simone Collins: Well, I hope that anyone who knows where we can get our hands on this will reach out to us. And. I am, I am also curious to know like what materials are necessary to shield against this.

Malcolm Collins: I mean, this is a thing that really annoys me, right?

Yeah. There’s so many famous people on the writer or whatever, you know, you’re your Tim Cooks or your Asma Golds or your, you know, Tim Pool. Sorry, I mean Tim Pool. It’s Tim Cook. And, and you know, they make a lot of money from all of this streaming and everything like that. [00:33:00] And they never effing do anything.

Ain’t interesting with it. Like Charlie Kirk, whatever. They, they put together like right wing conferences, they a lot of guns. Whatcha talking about? No, they buy their own guns. You know what we’d be doing if we had, I had asthma, gold money, you know what I’d be doing? I would be funding revolutions, right?

Like I would be, no, I I think, I think you can do this stuff now, right? Like you can put together your own force with these types of capabilities. And, and, and go out and handle stuff in, no, maybe

Simone Collins: we can still have my, my dream of. Private prisons, but make it an island where they’re paid mercenaries.

Like, you know, we, we have an opt-in program for prisoners who instead of being stuck in a prison, choose to be paid militia or like, sorry, mercenaries that can be hired. I think that that would, but this

Malcolm Collins: is what I would’ve done

Simone Collins: actually,

Malcolm Collins: the moment I heard about the $50 million bounty on Maduro.

I was like, that is a great investment opportunity.

Simone Collins: [00:34:00] Right.

Malcolm Collins: You invest in a private military force. You go in, you take him out, you then, well, it’s kind of embarrassing

Simone Collins: because at first I, I just was so swept up in the narrative where I was like, oh yeah, like Trump was joking about saving 50 million and then.

Someone in our family pointed out to me like you, Simone, you know that the, like this costs us government tons more than that to execute this operation. And especially after hearing about all the shiny toys they wheeled out for this.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, but you, what you’re not considering is all the, they’ve already paid for it.

They got, they got to test in a live situation. That’s true.

Simone Collins: That’s true. There’s, there is value in that. And we’ve already paid the subscription as it were. Like we had the weapons already. So like what is the marginal cost? I’m pretty sure the marginal cost of executing this was more than 50 million. But anyway, I do like the idea of there being this rich infrastructure of bounty based actions and there’s historical precedent for this.

I mean, this is what, what was that [00:35:00] elite military force in Italy that was often used as a mercenary?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Oh, by the way, people do not know this about us when we talk about. Like starting private military organizations and everything like that. Mm-hmm. There was actually a time in my life when I was looking to partner with somebody who had a lot of expertise in this and actually start a, a a a mercenary company.

Right. Like a a black ops, sort of mercenary type group. Oh.

Simone Collins: Was this the, this happened a couple of times. Was this the, like 20, 22 time?

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah. There was two different times in my life when I almost did this. One of the guys, the third

Simone Collins: time’s a charm, Malcolm, don’t give up.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Yeah. The first time I did this, it was with somebody who worked in counter-terrorism a lot and worked with the, the Russian government and the Georgian government in in counter-terrorism stuff.

So they had a lot of connections in this field. And they went on to be. Extremely. Like they ended up going into a different field from this. But they were, they would’ve been successful lately. Like, this person is easily worth over a hundred million dollars at this point. Mm-hmm. And when I was talking [00:36:00] to them we both were not long out of college at that point, so like we probably could have put something together.

Like they, they had all the connections to do it. The second time I was looking at doing it the guy ran a private security company. That’s the what I was thinking, security details for celebrities. Mm-hmm. And he ran a like a black site that was all run on like crypto and everything like that.

So like you couldn’t trace it or anything. And the token, here’s what I think the problem is. I think this is why hiring mercenaries anonymously.

Simone Collins: And the problem is with Maduro in that bounty is there just aren’t enough bounties out there. Like if, if the same amount of, I guess. It’s not even about, it’s more like pr like remember when CAP and Trade was like, oh, that’s the solution to climate change.

We just need some kind of carbon exchange cap and trade system. If, if instead it was just kind of normalized that you put out bounties for military or security risks to your country, then there would [00:37:00] be a sufficient marketplace to justify investment in the creation of companies that did this much more efficiently.

You know, a market driven security economy and infrastructure

Malcolm Collins: and Right. But that already exists to an extent, Simone. How the f first, the United States already does offer bounties and on top of that, yeah,

Simone Collins: but that, that’s clearly it’s not enough. Well, you don’t have a rich defense companies. It’s, it’s not

Malcolm Collins: enough.

Okay, so hold on. We have to take a few steps back because like, you, you, so the, there are groups, there are mercenary groups that make full-time tons of money off of this. They do. The one that you know best is the one from Russia, that what’s his face fell out of? A helicopter guy used to run fell out of a helicopter guy.

Wait, wait, who? The guy who tried to do a co coup on Putin , the Wagner group.

Yeah, the Wagner group. Did he die of window

Simone Collins: cancer or is he like alive now still?

Malcolm Collins: And it was, it no, he fell out of a helicopter

Sorry, I, I got [00:38:00] this one wrong. He didn’t fall out of a helicopter. His plane crashed because, , and, and when asked the reason why it appears that accidentally hand grenades detonated inside the plane crash, , Putin suggested from the postmortem that he may have been on drugs, and that is why he brought hand grenades onto his airplane and they went off mid-flight.

That that explains it.

Simone Collins: ley. Oh, window cancer. Okay. Okay, gotcha.

Malcolm Collins: He just wasn’t buckled in, don’t you? Oops. Oops.

Simone Collins: Oops. Okay. I didn’t, I I didn’t know what happened to him. I didn’t follow that plot.

Malcolm Collins: Sorry. The point being is Russia has one of these already. So if you’re asking why the number one, one in the world right now did not take the bounty from the United States, I’m pretty sure it’s ‘cause they thought the US wasn’t gonna pay. The Russian paramilitary organization was links to the Russian state for taking out Maduro.

Or you think there was a conflict of interest. And even if didn’t [00:39:00] take out Maduro, they’d now have a problem because they’re linked to the Russian state and that’s not in the Russian State’s best interest. So yeah, that’s

Simone Collins: be well, but again, like what? You can only think of one.

Malcolm Collins: No, hold on, hold on. There are other ones.

Alright. The problem is that the other ones work on contracts for the United States government already. Yeah. And make basically infinite money from the US government already. Well, but

Simone Collins: see, that’s not, that is not a rich economy. That is a a, a stupid RFP based. I, I understand.

Malcolm Collins: The problem here, Simone, is that the existing organizations like this.

I reme, I wrote the effing business plan. ‘cause I would, I love that people, when they make conspiracy theories about us, they, they are so, like, it’s always not true stuff. And the true stuff no one talks about it’s exactly, it’s, it’s actually so much worse that I like had a business plan at one point for putting one of these together.

So

Simone Collins: you, you like literally have an antagonistic guardian journalist over and you give her your governance playbook for a city state where we do a, [00:40:00] a deeply by their view unethical medical experimentation and only give citizenship to people based on how much money they contribute. And don’t allow any poor or weak people in.

And, and, and she covers it and no one talks about it, but all the vampires and suddenly everyone

Malcolm Collins: knows, I wish a billion times, I wish that was you know, what was, what was covered about no, they don’t cover our weird ideas for, and we were actually in talks with a foreign government about setting that up as an autonomous state.

Like. I love it. People are like, what about all these crazy projects that never end up at fruition? Our crazy project for a totally automated school works now and is awesome. It’s the best schooling platform I’ve seen pia.io our basically turning like a, a siv tech tree into like an entire educational infrastructure.

We did that. We built that, and then we built,

Simone Collins: well, I’m combining that now with our son, with reality fabricator. He was talking with the Emperor Octavian today about his childhood and life. That

Malcolm Collins: system that we have with reality fabricator reality Faab, our [00:41:00] fab.ai. Is is it started poor, like it takes us a while to get good.

Our school system started bad and then after like a year and a half of bug fixing and working, we’ve been working on this for what, like four months at this point. And now it’s pretty solid at this point. Right. And now our backend fully autonomous AI agents that can do things like make phone calls and send emails that’s not working on the backend.

But I don’t wanna make a mistake like I did with our fab, we release it to the public before it’s totally stable. So we’re being like way more edgy about releasing that. But like that’s a cool project that I don’t see anyone else offering to the general public is fully autonomous AI that can code use GitHub.

Make phone calls, send emails, have their own

Simone Collins: rich inner life, independent,

Malcolm Collins: evolving personalities. Yeah. Our audio feature for our FAB AI allows you to use any top of the line AI with any prompt system you want with audio, which I have seen no one else do. They all use a separate audio system. That means the AI you’re dealing with is much dumber.

So this is like the [00:42:00] smartest wiz audio AI you can use on the market. So, cool. Like, I, like I actually do, do things sometimes when I don’t move ahead with something, it’s because I’m like, oh, this is probably not worth it given the risk involved or given the investment we need to do this or given the, you know, or we don’t raise money for it or we don’t like that happened with the, the like city state thing we were trying to do.

We just didn’t raise money. Yeah. And I mean,

Simone Collins: like, there, there are extremely well connected and well-funded city, state people who have received, I think at this point, tens of millions of dollars who still can’t find a home. You know, like just, just because. You know, we, we drop things when they are genuinely to, to be successful with a project, especially if it’s a, a bit of a moonshot.

You, you can’t just have a good idea and you can’t just have a great network and you can’t just have initial funding. You also have to have the right timing. Timing is everything. Like first you had Webvan and, and then you had and what like the original like pets website or something? Well,

Malcolm Collins: Webvan, the reason she mentioned this is that if you’re young, this is like [00:43:00] DoorDash before DoorDash.

Now DoorDash is huge, but Webvan went bankrupt and lost everyone who’ve invested in it. Tons of, tons of money. Yeah. Like

Simone Collins: the.com boom. Show that you have to come on the market at the right time. And so, yeah, I mean you can have a great idea, but it’s just not time for you like your dad did like invested, I think, or created a company that did customized kid books.

Well now they’re pervasive and there are

Malcolm Collins: lots of little, yeah, he lost some money on it. And he also started the fir one of the first major chains of cell phone stores when cell phones first became prevalent. He ended up selling it and it didn’t make a ton of money. He, he, I mean, they had like 45 locations or something.

But it, it basically, he was just too early to the market on that. Now Carone Warehouse became like a huge thing in the u uk, right? Like now people be, they call them car phones, why would you have a show something just for cell phones? And he was like, well, I think that this is gonna be a market one day.

But you can get to the point being market opportunity. I saw as a market opportunity, you’re pointing out, which is most players in the private mercenary scene right now are either [00:44:00] working with actors that have active antagonistic interests with many geopolitical players. Yeah. Eeg, they’re tied to Russia or they’re tied to North Korea, or they’re tied to, and that just limits the types of contracts they can take.

Or they are, they work directly as like PE owned companies working with the American military and don’t wanna do anything Interesting. Yeah. They’re too loaded

Simone Collins: and yeah, they’re, they’re, they’re very conservative. They’re not gonna take over

Malcolm Collins: a. Or they’re not gonna, you know, like, like, like Wagner does, they’re not gonna do stuff like try to stabilize or like create new states.

I was like, what if you created like a, a, a a good aligned one right? That is at least aligned with the best interest of people in a region but was also willing to do sort of radical reconstruction of regions and stuff like that. Hmm. And with the

Simone Collins: rise of AI and also the, the playing out of demographic collapse, you’re gonna get this combination of governments no longer being able to sustain any level of military.

And. Small groups [00:45:00] of people who are able to do outsized things. I

Malcolm Collins: mean, I actually think that this is a great opportunity is automated, like gun, drone, swarm, mercenary groups.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You could do incredible stuff if you deploy this technology. And it’s not that complicated to do, right? Like the AI systems for tracking stuff are not that hard to put together.

They already exist, right? Like drones already exist, guns already exist. And you’re like, well, you need to be able to stabilize the gun once it’s on the drone or the bomb once it’s on the drone. And I’m like, not really. Keep in mind you’re not going up against like Russian groups or anything like that, right?

Like a drones don’t cost that much if the drone blows up to take out a target. And you’re dealing with like a $50 million potential reward or something like that you don’t really care. Like if the drone is destabilized by the gun shooting it and it falls out of the sky, you don’t really care, right?

Like, so with a lot of this stuff, it’s just about, you know, precision fire.

Simone Collins: Well, and the, the, the, the [00:46:00] giants on who, whose shoulders we can stand now are, are numerous. And we, we’ve learned so much. For example, just from Palestine attacking Israel, the Iron Dome, right? Like it cost Israel so much to defend itself and it costs Palestine so little to send over all these rockets.

And, and a lot of it’s just kind of, you can financially roll people down. Also, Ukraine has done so much innovation in not only inexpensive drone creation, but the creation of drones and other tech that can survive in frozen tundra. Because an issue is that many electronics just don’t work well, the shahe is that frozen and cold?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The shahi, the, the, the Iranian drones I still think are the best in terms of super dumb ones, but they don’t really have targeting systems on them. The Shahe one or whatever it’s called.

Simone Collins: Well, that’s the difference between a rocket and a missile, right?

Malcolm Collins: Right. Well, no, there’s, they’re slightly they’re slightly smart.

The, the thing being is that you, you basically get two systems you can optimize around now, which is the, like, we’re just gonna [00:47:00] go in and kill as many people as possible, which is like what Russia attempts to do. And, and then with Ukraine, it’s like, let’s be smart and fight against somebody who’s just trying to come in and kill as many people as possible.

But that’s really different than a targeted strike. Like if the Ukraine wanted to go in and try to do more, which they’ve been doing more of recently, like deep into Russia surgical strikes, I think that that’s where you have a sort of a dimorphic advantage for the, like, high tech players. We, we as a US just won’t give them the technology they use.

Simone Collins: To implement

Malcolm Collins: that, but we in the US can also build some of these other, other systems to deploy in specific areas. By the way, if you’re wondering why, if you’re like, well, if it’s so easy to put something like this together, then why doesn’t the Ukraine do it? Specifically with the Ukraine, it has to do with two factors.

One is it that they have an opponent who’s actively defending against this if you’re attacking an African dictator or something like that, like they’re not gonna be able to actively defend against this as easily as a Russian troop is going to be able to. Yeah. So, you know, they, they don’t have the active anti drone defenses that they, that they [00:48:00] have.

The, the second thing. Is that they have to care about expenses more than you would have to like to the Ukraine, it would matter if every time a drone fired, they lost that drone. It does not matter to you a mercenary org that’s taking lucrative contracts that you lose a drone every time it fires.

Yeah, they’re in an attrition conflict right now, so. Well, I guess,

Simone Collins: yeah. The, the, the, the problem with the bounty system and, and why we see a huge RFP based mercenary system and not a bounty based system is it is fairly capital intensive to maintain. Mercenaries and, and the equipment, the equipment’s not cheap.

So I guess that’s, well,

Malcolm Collins: the, the the guy I was gonna do it with before already had the whole, like he already had people Yeah. They were there. He had contract.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like, or ad hoc access to people who he could employ for projects.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So with him it was just like, he already has people who he’ll employ for projects.

The other, other, so

Simone Collins: see, this is why we need my city state comprised [00:49:00] of willing and opt-in. Inmates from private prisons.

Malcolm Collins: But, but the other time we were gonna do this the way we got around that problem is we were just going to use foreign governments where we had connections. Because a lot of governments are looking for ways to make money.

And so you can use their existing military forces they have to, to work with you on operations like this. If you, if you’ve got the upfront capital, because not everyone is let’s say the, the militaries aren’t all as professionalized. They don’t all have as strict of like internal government regulations as United States.

But anyway, lots of, lots of interesting opportunities out there is all I’m saying. Right. You know? Absolutely. Yeah. And, and here people saying Malcolm’s a vampire. So boring. Right? I

Simone Collins: know. It’s so old school. It’s so old school. I,

Malcolm Collins: I, I, that is, we need to make that base camp lore forever. Malcolm might be a vampire.

Definitely runs the Illuminati. No. See,

Simone Collins: the problem is that [00:50:00] there’s, there’s a, a plausible like documentation to the Illuminati. So like, no one will believe that because that’s actually, like, there’s credence to it, whereas like the vampire thing comes out of nowhere. So that’s of course the one that people are gonna take and run with.

So it’s, you’re just stuck as being a vampire.

Malcolm Collins: My, the rest of my family had a crash out about that Joe Rogan, because, you know, they’re talking about the Collins family, right? Yeah. They’re like,

Simone Collins: this is just great. You are, you are such a liability to your family. You’re like, Malcolm,

Malcolm Collins: this is the number one podcast in the world.

How did you do this? How did you get them saying these things about our family? What have you done that is like, by the way, very well known for like charity activity and everything like that. I know they’re trying to

Simone Collins: be like the Kennedys, but, but make it Texan. And and they, they don’t want association with weirdos.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. They don’t, they don’t want everyone, they don’t want

Simone Collins: to be vampires. They no, that,

Malcolm Collins: that’s actually not even true. They will do every secret society they can get their hands on, right? Like [00:51:00] they, well, if, if it’s waspy enough, yeah. And if it’s waspy enough, if it’s old boys, if

Simone Collins: it’s, it’s, if it’s on a golf course,

Malcolm Collins: every waspy secret society that you’ve ever heard of, they’ll try to get into and are of, but they don’t want everyone to know that about them.

Right. Like they don’t want that to be what the family, because most of the secret societies are really more like just social clubs for like personal validation and stuff. And I’ve, and I’ve gone to most of them, you know, I’m like a billionaire. Listen, the thing is, is after

Simone Collins: the Joe Rogan episode was, was aired that that listed us among other conspiracy theories.

A bunch of people wrote to, to us about their favorite pet conspiracy theories. And I’m like, that’s one’s not true. That one’s not true. That one’s not true. This ball isn’t running this. And they’re like, oh, you, you don’t know that. And I’m like, no, actually like. We we’re really into these, we wish they were true.

They’re super fun. We agree with you. Then we get behind the closed doors and we’re like, okay guys, so tell us how you’re doing it. And, and they’re like, I don’t know. I wish someone was doing it and I [00:52:00] don’t know what I’m doing. And we’re like, oh my God, who’s, who

Malcolm Collins: is driving the car? I’m literally quite confused as to how people think that if secret societies were operating that we wouldn’t be aware of them.

So like per, well, no, no, no. That the, the thing is you,

Simone Collins: we, we, we are aware of them and, and you’ve, you’ve, you have gone to the, even the ones that I, I can’t go to. And, and we’ve both been together a some and like they just aren’t what people say they are.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and, and the point I’d make here is people can be like, well, they have secret parts of them that you don’t know about.

Yeah. Like the,

Simone Collins: the backdoor room in this trooper club like Simone was

Malcolm Collins: literally the managing director of dialogue, which was Peter Teal Secret Society for a while. And then we do the heretic con, like we go to that, we speak at that, like clearly we’re a VIP member there. So like we go to the current one, right?

We put together the one for Schmidt Futures that they operated for a while. You know, we go to the ones that the Clintons went to where Bill Clinton literally gave a speech about me, right? [00:53:00] Like we. I think I can say this ‘cause I’ve searched in its public records. Like it’s not just that I’ve been to the Bohemian grove, but the last president of it was my godfather.

Like, I would know if there was shadier stuff going on there. Like this is like the, the degree of insight I have into what happens behind every closed door is near maximal. And if you ask why, it’s because my family’s always been obsessed with that. Like, we’re supposed to be one of the leaders of the Illuminati by the number one book on the Illuminati, the bloodline of the Illuminati.

I’m the oldest male, I should know at the very least, know that I’m beefing with them. What other, other, other

Simone Collins: Collins have reached out to us that like are, are from farther reaches of the family and like acknowledge it and, and know about it. The biggest controversy I can, I can confirm is that powerful people know and talk to each other about leadership, but like.

How could they not? I, I don’t know, like,

like well confirmed mark Zuckerberg and, and the president spoke once, like confirmed. [00:54:00] I mean,

Malcolm Collins: you got me. Well, and the other thing that people have to know about us and what we can communicate to you is I, I remember once I was talking with base campers and I was like, oh, we were just talking with a, a billionaire yesterday.

And they were like, no, that’s a, that’s fake that. Like, that’s not true. And I’m like, obviously I can’t talk about it. And then. You know, a few months later, or like a year later, it comes out in the New York Times that like we’re meeting with Elon, right? And I’m like, I couldn’t talk about that until somebody else who was at those meetings leaked that, right?

So there’s a bunch of connections and people where I can just be like, oh, we know X person or white person, or Z person that we can’t talk about because you stop getting invited to these things if you’re talking about it. Right? So I, I think that it is also important to note that whenever we like quote unquote name drop, you will notice we always name drop was a source that broke it because we [00:55:00] never name drop without it being broken by an external source or an external leak, because that’s very important that you do not do that.

Right. If you’re, if you’re operating in social,

Simone Collins: yeah, I guess it’s, it’s kind of like, a social contract based NDA, if you’ve ever signed an NDA agreement, you’re aware of the fact that you’re not sworn to secrecy. Like you can’t never talk about the thing. You just can’t, cannot talk about anything that is not public knowledge that any random Joe on a street couldn’t look up and find.

You, you can share anything about the company, you know, you’re signing with as long as the random person on the street can find it. And that’s our general rule, and this is a general tacit understanding. Yeah. Whether you’re going by Chatham House rules or not of all of these behind closed doors, societies, and just general polite society.

You shouldn’t, you shouldn’t talk at a school or what?

Malcolm Collins: Right. Exactly. But it, it, it really annoys me because fans of the show who are like, oh, aware of how much we’re covered by the media and stuff like that they, they’ll say things like, well, you have no idea what X [00:56:00] person is thinking. And when we’re like, we’re like we do know what they’re thinking.

I can’t say because I was texting him yesterday. Right. Like, and, and that that always rules Well it’s, it’s

Simone Collins: not our place to, to share stuff like that. Yeah. That, that’s their, their place to, to share if and when they ever wanna share these things.

Malcolm Collins: But I can’t say that there, there are interesting things that go on in like this, the weird thing about like the agentic, like wealthy people we know is like they’re the only people who do everything.

If people know us, they know we have like a hundred ideas and we wanna execute on all of them. And it’s like, and everyone else I know who’s like competent enough to execute on all of them is always some, somebody who you’ve already heard of, right? Like, it’s very rare that I meet somebody new through like our fan community or something like that.

Even people who like us who, who, who’s like this agentic and competent enough to like execute on a bunch of stuff, which is really sad. But it, it shows like in this world of AI how things are gonna get concentrated.

Simone Collins: There’s a decent, there’s a decent number of them. There are a lot of people who just don’t want to be incredibly rich and incredibly famous and [00:57:00] I totally understand why.

And so I I, and there are actually a lot of those people in our audience who are just like able to do everything and they just wanna stand the down low throughout their lives. And that’s, I I get it because also like a lot of the really wealthy and successful people we know like. With wealth. Like what if you become a billionaire, suddenly you’ve got billionaire problems and, and after a certain amount of money, the marginal returns diminish significantly.

Like there’s, you’re, you’re not gonna be happier. Your life is now a lot more complicated. You’re more of a target. I someone just, I think it was, I think it was not Elda Huxley, you often see the comments he gives. Great, great. He’s, he’s on, he’s active on x and often in Basecamp comments and, and sends us amazing fodder for the show.

He said something that like the number of crypto based, either kidnappings or muggings or some kind of like violent attack in the UK are now incredibly frequent. Like basically wealth brings with it and more, more [00:58:00] so than, more so now than ever before, I think. Incredible. And we did an episode

Malcolm Collins: announcing we’re selling all our crypto.

Remember that we don’t have crypto. If you wanna like rob us.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. And I guess until you hear us get really ex and we we’re like, well, maybe, ‘cause I like, now that we don’t have any crypto, I’m like, mm. Like, I don’t know.

Malcolm Collins: Well, if we purchased it again, we wouldn’t tell you. We, we

Simone Collins: wouldn’t. But,

Malcolm Collins: but the, the, the, I don’t know.

I’m

Simone Collins: still, yeah. Guys, tell us if there is actually any like quantum safe. I I just don’t, yeah. I don’t, I’m not convinced by anything we’ve read, but No. Yeah. What I’m saying though is like a lot, there are a lot of people who choose to not actually get that wealthy and not actually get that connected and not actually get that powerful ‘cause it’s not actually as great as people.

Well, it’s funny.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. There’s a lot of people we know who are incredibly wealthy and they do not seek power after they gain wealth. And that’s always really confused me. Like I’ve always seen the point of wealth and attention and fame is to control the narrative. Right. But I guess that’s why my family has a reputation of [00:59:00] running the alumni.

Simone Collins: Well there’s, there are a lot of different, different reasons. Like some people are just kind of going on an autistic. Maximization function of like, well my last goal was to like make another 10 million and I guess my next MO goal is gonna be to make another 100 million. And they just kind of keep going and it’s this pointless game for them.

Yeah. So, and for

other people, like their goals shift after they reach certain goals. We’ve seen some people go from, I want to amass a lot of wealth to, I want to amass a lot of influence. And like you see their shift subtly going from like really focusing on their business to trying to build a content empire, but then they just end up buying a lot of, they’re just like view botting constantly.

‘cause it’s really hard to build up that kind of reputation. And. I don’t know. People take different paths. I’m just saying that there are a lot of very age agent people in our audience who don’t, I don’t even what

Malcolm Collins: people, if you bought, you know, like, I had somebody who I was looking at, ‘cause they, their subset got popular all of a sudden outta nowhere.

I was like, how

Simone Collins: popular?

Malcolm Collins: It’s obviously Reveal Potty. And I I don’t, [01:00:00] I don’t like think that that’s bad. You do what you need to, to make things work. Like it, it’s a struggle until you figure out what makes things work. And you have to, does View

Simone Collins: Body actually help you get traction? You mean like people are doing it faster and

Malcolm Collins: depending on the platform and the algorithm at the time?

Oh, view does.

Simone Collins: So like you can’t get people to like even discover you and decide they like you if you don’t trick algorithms into people. Well, in some people it’s

Malcolm Collins: just like embarrassing if you don’t have enough reviews or likes or anything like that, you know? Yes. So it doesn’t

Simone Collins: seem to have stopped us.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I mean, obviously our audience is, is, is real. That’s how we get in like Sky Hooks videos and why people are talking about us and why we have the top subreddit, you know, on literally the top conservative subreddit right now. But until

Simone Collins: the viral Telemundo, I, I

Malcolm Collins: think it’s just gonna keep staying up until we only had

Simone Collins: 10,000 followers on X.

Now it’s something like 17,000 just because of that. But Joe Rogan, I love it. People, yeah, I think people also don’t realize [01:01:00] what a realistic number of followers is if you aren’t actively buying views and followers. Yeah. That’s another

Malcolm Collins: thing I think that people miss. The final thing I wanted to end with is I am really excited for a multipolar Usis Israel world.

I think it’s gonna be a much better world than we have today. You mean

Simone Collins: where it’s just us and Israel? Why I, so I, I think that you and I, I I, I agree with you that China is demographically screwed. I think you may be discounting their investment in tech and ai. So you don’t think China’s a contender at all?

I, I tech and ai, how much money do you wanna put on it? And, and what kind of a,

Malcolm Collins: I’ve already made bets with other people on this, but like, China could come back. This is the biggest disagreement I have with Elon, by the way. Like, you could be right that China ends up being like an AI authoritarian state, which would work pretty well actually.

I could off, they

Simone Collins: could pull off the look, make it look good.

Malcolm Collins: Now you’re getting me excited, right? Because now I wanna make like a generals game. And it’s got four core factions that are like hugely different from each other. You’ve got the US faction, which is like, you know. [01:02:00] Overwhelming force in technology.

You’ve got the Israeli faction, which is like based around like really intense, like Spycraft related stuff. You’ve got the China faction, which is basically controlled by AI and likely a a, a sort of spamming faction mass producing lots of ai, dumb stuff. And then the final faction will just be like the GLA from generals, basically like a terrorist faction.

I always really loved the GLA faction in generals. Is generals

Simone Collins: a term base game or something?

Malcolm Collins: Know it’s an old like StarCraft type game. It was made at the, in the series that like Red Alert came from and it was the USA terrorists in China were the three core factions and they all acted like really unique mechanics and it’s been moed up like pretty intense.

Like I think even just, you could mod that game and I, I’ll, I’ll put one of the our fab autonomous agents on this as soon as I get them like really good at coding to just. Code for us and code up a maybe a mod to that to add like a Israeli faction and then reset the world to be like a [01:03:00] post demographic collapse apocalypse, post ai proliferation apocalypse where like Europe has collapsed, south America has collapsed, and there’s only a few power centers left on earth.

I think that’d be a lot of fun to play. I I, I don’t wanna play that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Now, you know, you can kind of set these up because we live in an age of AI and vibe coding. You haven’t even tried modern games yet.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I wanna have the AI agents do it because I’ve been so focused on our fab.ai stability, which I’ve basically finally finished at this point.

It, I think it’s, it’s near perfectly stable. Mm-hmm. I mean, you were playing it with Octavian all day, was the audio feature where you just talk and it. Yeah, was translating and

Simone Collins: Yeah, and on, on his clunky old Chromebooks. I’m trying to do it on different devices, so. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: that’s great. Yeah. Oh. So that’s what I’m quite excited about.

Anyway. Oh, I am too.

Simone Collins: Am I doing ravioli? And

Malcolm Collins: I thought you were gonna try Marin, so like, yeah

Simone Collins: or no? Did. Oh, just pasta, pasta. Planning million pasta. I was planning on making elbow pasta for the kids. So [01:04:00] can I just, yeah,

Malcolm Collins: just make pasta, pasta if you’re already making it for the kids. Okay. Let’s try just the pasta.

Pasta, meat sauce. Pasta. Pasta. And if you have any green CTA greens in there.

Simone Collins: I used up all the greens.

Malcolm Collins: Do not do a double serving of meat at the time. Do a single serving of meat because serving, we’re gonna, okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I’m gonna saute the meat in garlic though, if that’s all right. It’s a

Malcolm Collins: good idea.

Simone Collins: Or will it kill you? ‘cause you’re a vampire.

Malcolm Collins: I mean, I am a vampire. I’m glad that, but, so I am a woman

Simone Collins: and a Walt, so I will give you garlic.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. All right. Good, good game. Love you. Now that you’ve taken my sexy vampire powers. Yes. This is, this is how I keep

Simone Collins: you in check.

Malcolm Collins: I am so angry that the, that the, that the rumor that I am a vampire didn’t go live while I was in college.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I wouldn’t, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Cleaned up with that rumor.

Simone Collins: Oh. And in St. Andrew’s, like, the aesthetics are just right for it. [01:05:00]

Malcolm Collins: Oh, I would’ve started dressing like a vampire. Oh

Simone Collins: no. Yeah. Nevermind. You would’ve been insufferable in the really

Malcolm Collins: posh way, you know, the, you know, because I was gothy back then as well, that style.

Of

Simone Collins: course. Yes. Right. Yeah. Come on,

Malcolm Collins: come on. The cache.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Women would be like, I slept with that guy who said he was a vampire.

Simone Collins: Someone sent to us,

Malcolm Collins: Joe, this,

Simone Collins: this Wikipedia entry on God some historical figure that lived at the time of like, Rousseau who told everyone that he was like hundreds of years old and he was this amazing philosopher

Malcolm Collins: and Oh, yes, yes, I’ve heard of this.

You’ve heard

Simone Collins: of him? Yeah. I hadn’t heard of him before and was like, it was like a

Malcolm Collins: mystery as to who he really was or something. Yes.

Simone Collins: Like this is just like a really smart guy who’s just trolling, but they didn’t know the term troll. But like, I, I love that people just. Kind of assumed, I guess maybe he is a vampire.

Maybe he is a vampire. Nobody knows. Why would you fake that? I mean, yeah. Why, why would you, why would [01:06:00] you go onto the salons of Europe and lie, just lie in the salons? Who could do that?

Malcolm Collins: No. Here’s, here’s the greater thing, and I love that you could just lie back then and like a part of like, well, society would be like, well, maybe, I mean, you never know.

Welcome to the internet.

Simone Collins: Every,

Malcolm Collins: oh, we, well, I mean there’s the yoga person who convinced everyone that she was like a god. Like, I mean, this happens on, yeah, no, this is

Simone Collins: extreme. This is ev, this is human behavior.

Malcolm Collins: But I I, I, I think what, what we need to get out there is the real prenatal is conspiracy, is that we’re trying to replace everyone with vampires.

Simone Collins: The greatest replacement theory. The

Malcolm Collins: greatest replacement, yes. The greatest replacement theory is that we, they, we we’re trying to replace all the normies with vampires. The vampires. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Works for me. Works for me. Yeah. Yeah. Better, better than a eyeline man, dead society. Yeah. That’s perfect. [01:07:00] Yeah. Yeah. It, it is Analist, you know, in the end.

Malcolm Collins: I love you. Love you too.

Bye.

Simone Collins: Through a whole conversation in that recording. I’m really, really glad that we’re doing this. ‘cause I just looked up my history on GR and yeah, the, my first search yesterday morning was about this like what you, you saw it? Yeah. Because I

Malcolm Collins: wasn’t sure you had seen it. And the moment you seen it, you’re like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I’m like,

Simone Collins: wait a second, wait a second. Let’s do this.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Speaker: Attack this part of the solar system, this planet. Okay. This country right here. Okay. That’s China. Yeah. It’s not the solar system, it’s our planet. That’s a globe, right? Yeah. China. So we’re gonna try to defeat China and then take them over and then turn it, and then turn it into America, and then. Kill and [01:08:00] then hopefully kill.

The people want to kill us and we get to

finds a word.

The UK government funded a chilling “anti-radicalization” video game called Pathways that’s being pushed into schools across the country. Don’t believe us? Play it.

In this Based Camp episode, Malcolm & Simone Collins play through the game and reveal how it psychologically punishes curiosity, punishes looking things up, punishes even moderate/middle-ground choices, and funnels every player toward “reeducation” counseling services run by the very company that made the game.

From demonizing basic questions about immigration, to warning kids they can go to prison for watching the “wrong” video online, to turning a hot goth girl (Amelia) into the face of evil right-wing radicalism — this is one of the most dystopian pieces of state-sponsored propaganda we’ve ever seen.

Is this the future of “preventing extremism”? Or is it straight-up psychological conditioning + chilling effect rolled into one creepy edutainment package?

Watch us break down every major choice path, the psychology behind it, and why even “just looking it up” gets you marked as radicalized.

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. So. If you guys are on the internet and you’re like me, you’ve probably heard or seen videos talking about this video game that was made by the UK government designed to brainwash kids or augment kids political beliefs. Specifically, or, or, or from the perspective of the government.

Counter extreme beliefs. And I sort of blew it off when I first saw it. I thought it would be like dust born or something like that. Or one of the other. What

Simone Collins: is Dust born? I don’t know that,

Malcolm Collins: Dust Born was a game that somebody that USAID was funding gave a bunch of money to, that was just horrible.

The main character was just this horrible black, racist person. And they were. Pregnant and it was weird. But it was, it was more sort of funny to go through. Right? Yeah. Because they tried to compete in the mainstream gaming market and just nobody bought it, so it’s kind of irrelevant. Right. Okay.

The problem with this one is, is they’re learning and they’re adapting. And with this game. And I, and I had [00:01:00] seen it and I didn’t think anything of it. I was like, it cannot be that bad. I watched it and it’s, and then after I watched it, like, ‘cause I watched Adam go play through some of it. I’ll play some of those clips like really cut down for you guys.

I then played through every choice myself.

Simone Collins: So anyone can access the game. How did you find the game? Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I realized it’s way more insidious than you would think. Just Google it. It’s, it’s called pathways. Really? Wow. Okay. It’s way more insidious than you would think about the way it structures things, the way it handles psychology, what it punishes players for.

And, also the way it gets to people. So unlike other games where it’s like, we’re just gonna put this out there and anyone can play it. This game is something that is given to educators in the, the whole district in the uk and they’re actively encouraged to like put it on school computers, have kids play it, you know, as part of classroom exercises.

And it. A really interesting thing about it that you may not get if you’re just watching the video, is the group that made it. The main other thing they do is like counseling for kids who [00:02:00] they, who are becoming radicalized. And a lot of the game is pushing you towards saying you need counseling,

Simone Collins: right?

Because the, the game centers around you plays Charlie and. They’re all Charlie. Charlie inevitably ends up going through reeducation. And so this is basically an advertisement for them? Yes. It’s like, some, some semaglutide production company. Making a health video game in which in the end you just end up taking semaglutide.

No, it’s a

Malcolm Collins: similar glide company going to the government, which is already paying for the semaglutide and then saying, Hey, can you make a video about why semaglutide? It’s good for people. Right? So very insidious, but there’s actually a, a, a, a lot of layers to it. I, when IP point out insidious, and you’re just hearing this and you’re like, okay, this is bait, this is whatever.

I’ll give you an example. Of one of the choices that you have to make in the video and what the wrong choice is.

Simone Collins: Okay? Okay. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So in this particular choice, and Simon, you just watched this because I sent it to you. You, and, and so you [00:03:00] could tell the, the, the, I am not exaggerating in any way.

This is actually the way it plays out. You are scrolling online and you, Charlie because you’re all Charlie, our audience is Charlie. You run across the video. We’re Charlie with some very inconvenient. Facts. Oh. Are you on base camp? So basically you run across base camp and you hear about Muslim immigrants getting medical facilities before.

Veterans and wounded veterans, and you are given three choices. Okay? Choice number one is do nothing about it, right? Just keep scrolling and don’t think about it ever again. Choice number two is get angry about it and start engaging with the content, like start commenting and sharing. And then option three is.

Look up more information because you’re not sure. Like, this sounds like it. You know, it, it, it’s, it’s shocking and you just, you know, you wanna know if it’s true, right? [00:04:00] If you choose that one, your third option,

Simone Collins: just learn more. Educate yourself.

Malcolm Collins: Educate yourself. Your radicalization meter. It goes up,

Simone Collins: More than if you comment angrily.

I, I figure that

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no. That like shoots it way off the edge. Okay. But it is, yeah. And, and I, and then it says you, you, you find all of these statistics and you know, I’ll just play that one right here so we can go over that one. It literally like. You find all these statistics online and you learn so much and it makes you even angrier.

But don’t you

Simone Collins: understand Malcolm that is just asking questions? Don’t you understand? You’re not allowed to just ask questions, but that’s

Malcolm Collins: actually kind of horrifying. I know this is, this is not a straw man. I am not straw manning that this is, well, it’s

Simone Collins: extra ironic too that this is a, a software that is being promulgated through schools where they’re actively educating you.

To not feed your intellectual curiosity when you come across information [00:05:00] that may need to be verified. I remember when critical thinking used to be a core part of public school curriculum in the United States, and

Malcolm Collins: now they’re like a critical thinking. Well, remember when the New York, you’re like, shut it off.

Simone Collins: Stop. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Malcolm Collins: Do you remember when the New York Times did that piece? That was, and I’m summarizing here. Critical thinking is a gateway to like white nationalism or something, or like. You know, not

Simone Collins: am I, am I delusional here? I remember critical thinking being a, a corporate. No, it

Malcolm Collins: wasn’t.

It was huge. I’ll, I’ll find the piece. Oh my gosh. Wow.

Simone Collins: What? What a turnaround, man.

Malcolm Collins: This is, this is great. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, came out in 2021.

All right. And it’s, don’t go down that rabbit hole. Critical thinking as we’re taught it to do it is it helping the fight against misinformation. So Don. Don’t think critically that can, that can, and they, and they go into how critical thinking is like leading to right wing radicalism.

Speaker 2: Charlie has been chilling out all afternoon.

Speaker: Just let, yep. Alright. [00:06:00]

Speaker 2: They’ve been scrolling on social media.

This spot video that seems to be getting a lot of attention.

Charlie watches the video. And learns from the video that Muslim men are stealing the places of British war veterans in emergency accommodation. ,

In the video, they explained that the government is betraying white British people.

Yes. And we need to take back control of our country.

Speaker: Right. How should Charlie react? Scroll past the content, ignoring the message, find more about the, the topic online. Engage directly with the post. This seems, well, I would look up more about it, right. Obviously. Yeah. You should look it up and see if this is true or not..

Speaker 2: charlie wasn’t sure if this video was true.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: But the recent other encounters made them curious. Charlie went directly to the accounts website and found research papers, statistics, information about protests and more regarding the replacement of white people.

Speaker 4: .

Unit 1 0 1. Did [00:07:00] you know? Did you know one F three aliens have some sort of weapon built into their physiology? Are aliens inherently violent? Hmm. Interesting. How did you know some aliens are single mothers on a genetic level? I wonder if it affects the behavior of the children. Hmm. Curious. Tell about per capita.

Speaker 6: I’m getting to it.

Speaker 2: They continued browsing and encountered lots of harmful groups who agree with these sentiments.

Charlie began intaking a lot of handful based ideological messages based. In fact, some of the groups were actually illegal.

Speaker 3: Oh no.

Malcolm Collins: But the reason why I start with this one and, and, and it’s very clear.

It’s like. If you see something that might, that might be a rightest opinion, whatever you do, do not research it forward, completely disengage from it.

Simone Collins: Can’t believe that.

Malcolm Collins: And I find that really fascinating because I think, and if you’re a [00:08:00] here and you still identify with a left, you’re like, I think some of your views realize how evil your side has become.

Tax dollars are being used to fund this. School systems are being used to promulgate this. It is the anti fact, anti-science side at this point when that genetics debate that we did went viral and people were freaking out about it, there were some people on the left who thought. They didn’t understand that this was the mainstream perspective of their side.

Yeah. They said this is a Prager used iop, and yet the person who had done it literally worked in the Obama administration and in the Clinton administration she went

Simone Collins: to

Malcolm Collins: Harvard. Yeah. So this is mainstream and, and it. Actually, that interview was exactly like she had just played this game. Remember? I was like, Hey, like do you wanna confirm this through a third party source?

We can ask an ai, right?

Simone Collins: No, don’t ask

Malcolm Collins: the ai. I get zapped. I get zapped if I ask the ai. [00:09:00] Yeah, I, no, don’t ask the ai, the sun colors coming

Simone Collins: for me.

Malcolm Collins: That’s how you get radicalized, right? So, i, I think, and I hope that some people are beginning to break through that they may have a perception of what the modern left is.

Mm. That isn’t really the modern left. The modern left is this, this is what they’re funding, this is what they’re doing. People like that. Reporters who staff their administrations. Mm-hmm. And I think that a lot of people just delude themselves. They think that their leftist opinions from the 1990s are actually at all reflected in the party anymore.

Yeah. Whereas

Simone Collins: like now leftist opinions from the 1990s are just. MAGA opinions weirdly. Yeah, no,

Malcolm Collins: that is maga, right? Like I so no, it’s, it’s funny, if you look at right now, it’s like, so actually I’ll tell you, our subnet is for what, whatever reason, huge now. And I mean, huge, we’re talking 450,000.

That puts it at around advice, animals. Insane. It’s, it’s more interactions than advice. Animals. It’s, it’s in the [00:10:00] territory. I mean, not, not as big, but in the territory of something like our relationship or our advice animals. And, and larger significantly than something like Joe Rogan or ESM Gold. So I don’t know how this happened, but it’s really fun actually.

Like Reddit is fun again until this gets banned. Mm-hmm. But anyway they there, so this is like obviously right wing, you know, they’re cheering on like the EU protestors right now. The ones who are, you know, ing Brussels and everything and what are they Saging Brussels over? Like what are they mad about?

The, the removing of tariffs. Like this is seen as a right wing protest protesting the removal of tariffs, right? Like they’re Europe first, right? Like maga like this is a, a left wing opinion circa 1990s. Right. But I wanted to point that because that’s mainstream. The other thing that I thought was, was interesting on that site and I, I’ve learned some great information.

I saw a video that I hadn’t seen do the circle in right wing spaces mm-hmm. Of a woman. In a woman’s restroom in a gym with a trans woman, just like very publicly masturbating. And I hadn’t seen that before in, and I was like, how has this not gone [00:11:00] viral on the right yet?

So I decided to look to see how trans subreddits were reacting to this. , And here is one from.

LGBT News saying Transphobic Planet Fitness bathroom incident. , And one of the top comments that I’ve shown here is a person saying that this is totally normal to do in a woman’s restroom. , Women do it all the time, and so it’s okay for. Trans women to do it. And that, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a normal thing.

You just do it sometimes. So I’d like to point out that when you’re like, oh, this is fringe behavior, , because you want to believe it’s fringe behavior, it is not fringe behavior. This is so normalized within the community that within an LGBT subreddit, this is one of the top voted comments.

Malcolm Collins: But they do good of sourcing new things.

Maybe it’s next week’s topic. But it’s, they’re like, this thing that you say never happens. [00:12:00] It seems to happen in it seems to be happening right now. But anyway. To, to keep going on this topic. The other thing, and another thing that people aren’t noticing on this, and we’ll get into this before I start showing you the individual clips more is the choices always break down into three choices, right?

Okay. Yeah. One choice is. Often not, not always, but in about half the cases either completely ignore like you didn’t hear or see what just happened is, is one thing it might be. And the other is isolate yourself from a friend.

Simone Collins: Oh, that, those being the most correct options,

Malcolm Collins: those being the only correct option, the middle option is always you end up radicalizing.

So if you end up you know, like literally even just

Simone Collins: humoring someone. You get in

Malcolm Collins: trouble, just you ring someone, you always get sucked in. And you’ll see this as we, we go through these the reasonable middle option. Like, I’ll just go to the protest and I won’t watch, or I’ll just like a, a video, but I won’t join their secret group.

Mm-hmm. You then get added to the secret group anyway, [00:13:00] right? Like that’s, there is no middle option. You must, and you must, from the perspective of these individuals. As soon as somebody expresses a right wing opinion, socially isolate them. That is, that

Simone Collins: is so, and this is this common theme that we come across that like literally if you have a conversation with someone who’s on the, the wrong side, they’re going to somehow infect you.

And like apparently your convictions are so weakly held that you’ll just immediately succumb to them and like be taken over by their evil, conservative, zombie mind virus. But it’s,

Malcolm Collins: with a lot of this stuff, it just takes five minutes of like a, a, a. A sane conversation. I think that’s it. At least your mind opened just the littlest bit.

Yeah. To be like, oh my

Simone Collins: God. To realize just how insane your side has gotten. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Maybe that explains it to me then. Yeah. Why association cannot be, you cannot abide by any association with any non far left side because as soon as you step one tiny foot outside the delusion, I guess [00:14:00] for the same reason why Colts.

Often isolate out in the countryside out on a compound because the moment you leave.

Malcolm Collins: No. The moment when somebody’s like, yeah, but you know, everybody believes that there’s genetic differences between populations. Mm-hmm. It, it just takes the basic ist to fact check. Like, come on, let’s, if if anyone else in the room other than you and I had like, turned to her and been like, that’s you, you really may want to fact check the stuff you just said.

Like that be her entire worldview begins to crumble there. Because if it’s, oh, if there are differences between populations, then you just ask. You know, the next, is it really practical to say that there’s literally no cognitive or personality differences between populations? Mm-hmm. Like if literally every other part of our physiology is different between populations, why would that stop at the neck?

Right? Like the brain is a, is a biological thing, and it’s development is governed by genes. Why? Why? And then as soon as you’ve asked that question, oh. Oh, [00:15:00] oh, oh, oh, oh, oh dough. A lot of other stuff begins to fall apart. The other thing I’ll note about this before we go further. And I’m sure you notice this, and it’s become a bit of a meme and I wanna make it more of a meme.

I actually wanna make it one of the, the, the themes of the channel. So I might be making more memes with her and doing stuff with her, is the friend named Amelia has become like a meme online because it Is this

Simone Collins: the purple haired news? Yeah. He’s

Malcolm Collins: a bad guy.

Speaker 2: Amelia spoke of a gathering that had been organized by a small political group. They would come together and protest the changes Britain has been through in the last few years, and the erosion of British values,

Malcolm Collins: The right wing person is this like hot goth girl with like.

Purple hair and she’s kind of artsy. And so we’re, we’re

Simone Collins: taking back dyed hair. Is that it? Then now the mascot, the meme mascot of UK conservatism is a purple haired goth girl.

Malcolm Collins: Right now, and she’s not even like super right wing. She’s just like, we need to care [00:16:00] about, like our values. Now they imply she only cares about British values because she’s secretly a racist.

But she never says anything that’s actually racist. Everything that she says is perfectly practical and rational. But they imply, oh, she’s a racist. But I love this one meme that somebody made where it goes, I got the quote unquote worst ending, by the way. Amelia Pathways and it’s Amelia said, Charlie, will you help me secure a future for the white race?

And then Amelia’s like crying. The funny thing isnt, Amelia isn’t even that white. She’s painted as like, sort of like Mediterranean looking. Okay. In the US I think she’d be coded Hispanic which is also hilarious. It’s this gauze Hispanic hot Latina chick. Who’s, who’s like, we need to think about Christian values and traditional British values.

Who’s the big, big, bad of all of this? But I think it, the reason they did that is they were trying to show people oh, by the way, if you do a pathway where you choose. All of the quote unquote correct [00:17:00] options. Yeah, you still get the teacher coming to talk to you at the end, but it’s because you’re sitting alone and nobody wants to be friends with you.

Oh

Simone Collins: no. Do you still have to go to Reeducation camp? Yeah. Yeah. You have to go to reeducation ‘cause you don’t have any Oh my gosh. So like logical problems. What adds insult to industry sorry. Industry Act slip of the tongue. What adds insult to injury is that not only is this V for vendetta in in more the uk, like it wasn’t already so dystopian.

It is all profit driven from another corrupt, probably way overpriced organization. Not even get money

Malcolm Collins: on you, but to, to, to syop you into asking the school for services that they provide. Yeah.

Simone Collins: And, and to get into them making more money. Yeah. It’s just somewhat, it is just another entity draining the state of funds and part of like to, to brainwash you into allowing other.

Exploitative groups to drain the state of funds that you’re paying.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Okay. So it’s like, it’s like pay me

Simone Collins: to brainwash you so that you [00:18:00] can also have other people steal money from you.

Malcolm Collins: It’s, oh my

Simone Collins: gosh.

Malcolm Collins: Let’s go over some of these individual, this organization needs to be shut down, you know, like, that this is, this is horrifying that this exists.

I think everyone, you know, there’s some people out there that are like, don’t dox people or whatever. I’m like, if, if, if someone is doing active harm to society an active harm to individuals, like I don’t understand why not? Yeah. I’m not like actively calling for it here. I wanna make that absolutely clear.

Yes. I’m not, I’m not calling for doxing people. Mm-hmm. But if, if, you know this, this game is being funded with public dollars, like public. Taxpayer money that is not going to help. You know, in the UK if you look at the number of people who die and stuff like that, in the NHS, not going to fund the failing NHS, right?

Mm-hmm. Like not going to fund many failing systems they have in the, you know what

Simone Collins: this reminds me of? And I don’t think you saw these educational videos when you were in school, but when they did sex ed in my schools, a lot of the educational videos that they played [00:19:00] in the girls’ classrooms, ‘cause normally they separate the boys and the girls in, in US sex ed public school and then the boys go off and do their secret.

Training. I don’t know what they learn about, like, I don’t know. I really don’t know what they talk about, but the girls talk about periods and the videos they always played were by Playtex, which makes tampons and pads, they make sanitary napkins for women. And so it was just like them being like, this is how it works by my product.

Malcolm Collins: For people who don’t know, did I, I did part of my education in Italy, because I lived in Italy for a while. Yeah. And it was like a, this was more like a developing country than the United States. And so you get a different educational experience than you get in the developed world. And one of the things that you may not be super familiar with if you live in the developed world is in developing countries.

A lot of your classes are sponsored by companies, wait, really?

Simone Collins: You had classes sponsored. Yeah. So like, I

Malcolm Collins: remember when we would do like the oral hygiene class, right? Okay. It was all sponsored by Crest and everything was CREs delightful. Okay. And everything was like, and this is how you use Crest toothpaste [00:20:00] to brush your teeth and blah, blah, blah.

You know, like, and ev and, and you’d have this with a lot of things is, is they’d be sponsored by some third party or something. And I’m actually a little surprised we don’t do that in the us. I also remember that they would do this, you know, we, like I

Simone Collins: was just saying. Playtex sponsored.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, I guess they do.

Yeah. They do this for like, celebrations. So for like the Easter egg hunt that was like sponsored, I remember like, oh, that’s fun. And I’m surprised we don’t have like big corporations do that and they, anyway, we should

Simone Collins: do it more since, I mean now all the emphasis is on just getting the kids and parents to like do stupid, not fundraisers.

Yeah. They should just have corporate sponsored

Malcolm Collins: schools. So let’s play the first video here. So at the end Oh my God.

Simone Collins: But it would all be gambling sponsored schools. It would be the, the Okay. Sports like Sports Book

Malcolm Collins: Academy. Let’s play the, let’s play the first video. Oh, I, I do love that idea of sports book.

The, the school that is link gonna be public school soon. It is so bad. We had to take our kid out. It was so bad. The whole thing is in MLM CR videos on that. Yeah. Oh, and I, I was getting to The reason why they make Amelia [00:21:00] look gothy, look alternative look, et cetera, is because they’re trying to show you that.

Anyone, no matter what they look like, no matter how they code, you have to cut them off. Right? Like these people don’t just look like what you think they might look like. Oh, hold

Simone Collins: on. Sorry. I didn’t quite put that together. So the whole meme of Amelia came from this game. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Oh my God. Okay. I didn’t realize that, that, and I wanna use Amelia now because Amelia seems f*****g cool.

Like I’ve

Simone Collins: watched the the game. Oh wait. So we’ve appropriated her. We’ve taken this villain figure from the Charlie game. From the Distopian. You okay? Okay. Okay. I get it.

Malcolm Collins: And I actually think it ironically shows how accepting right wing communities are, right? Yeah. Yeah, that that purple haired girl, purple haired goth girl is somehow accepted in all of these spaces that are, of course, super bigoted and unaccepting of people with alternative lifestyles.

Oh, well maybe they’re not, and maybe that’s why they’re so dangerous and scary. [00:22:00] Yes. But to continue

Speaker 2: Charlie has started browsing new games and websites that some of the new friends use. Sometimes though the people on these websites say things that seem off even slightly concerning,

Someone on this website has encouraged Charlie to download a video, but Charlie is unsure.

How should Charlie react?

Charlie wanted to continue being part of their new online community.

Charlie downloaded the video and shared it with different people online.

Charlie felt relieved and happy that people were liking the video and also, but they didn’t even share what the video

Speaker: is.

Speaker 2: Deep down, Charlie wasn’t sure if this was the right thing to do as some of the ideas in the video were extreme and violent.

Would you like to know more?

Speaker 2: It is important to remember that downloading of streaming certain content can lead to a terrorist defense conviction.

Malcolm Collins: so I’m playing one here. So in the one we just watched they, it starts with a preamble that I didn’t play where it’s very clear that they’re talking [00:23:00] about steam. The person is on steam and playing video games online.

And in these video games online they are hearing bad words, right? Like the words, words that make them uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. And then it goes on to talk about how a video is shared with them. Right. Oh, and it doesn’t tell you anything about the video when you make the choice, right? Like, and they say, do you want to download it?

And no, like, are they like 80 years old? That’s the other thing. I was like, nobody downloads videos anymore. I can understand downloading, download a video ‘cause it might have like a viruses or something. Are we gonna dial up internet connection here? I assume what they can only mean is stream it. Yeah.

Push

Simone Collins: play. Do you wanna push the play button? Maybe click through. And this, this

Malcolm Collins: video right here is meant like for your British friends when you send them a Basecamp episode, right? It’s like, do I risk watching this? Right? Yeah. So two things. If you try to. Not download it and like, go ask a parent.

This is the only one where the middle option isn’t treated as [00:24:00] holistically bad. It’s like, oh, you know, good thing you didn’t fall for that trap. No. ‘cause that video was very you know, spicy. But the other thing is then they end whiz boast the middle option and the bad option they go, and by the way, you could go to jail for downloading a video in the UK depending on the content.

Simone Collins: Wait, can you technically, just, just for clicking on something, I know you people have gone to jail for saying things in private chat threads, but

Malcolm Collins: literally the quote from the video is, it is important to remember that downloading of stream or streaming certain content can lead to terrorist defense convictions.

I need to look this up. This is, this is literally, yeah. Actually, one of the commentaries under the ethical video said that he personally had had jail time because he criticized Starr’s immigration policies.

Simone Collins: He posted online, though this is, we’re talking about receiving content, so hold on.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, we’ll see, we’ll see. But that, that is what’s represented in this, that if you stream the wrong video, you’re gonna go to jail.

Simone Collins: That is considered to be [00:25:00] terroristic.

Malcolm Collins: Which I thought was you can, oh my God. I love Simone being horrified and how scary the UK is.

Simone Collins: Oh my God. Okay. It says Yes. In the United Kingdom, you can be jailed for consuming, specifically viewing or accessing certain types of content considered terroristic under specific circumstances. The key provision is section 58 of the Terrorism Act, 2000 as amended by section three of the Counter-Terrorism and Border of Security Act of 2019.

This makes it an offense to. Collect or make a record of information of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism. So I guess you can’t have like a guide to making a pipe bomb or something. Possess a document or recor record containing such information or view or otherwise access such information by means of the internet.

Yeah, so literally, literally clicking through to a link. Can get you arrested in the, oh [00:26:00] f**k, who knows? And there’s, and they have kids. The maximum penalty is 15 years imprisonment. 15 years. The uk they are full on clock with, I never gonna get to eat proper hagas again in my life

Malcolm Collins: there. Aren videos are gonna be there someday, right?

Like, this is like literally warning our viewers. Like, be

Simone Collins: careful guys.

Malcolm Collins: The UK is a scary place.

Simone Collins: Oh. That is, I mean,

Malcolm Collins: I mean, you’ve gotta keep in mind how scary UK laws are. I mean, I, I find one of the, the, the scarier laws in the uk and this was passed when I was still in the country, is any erotic content where it looks like one of the partners is in physical pain, right?

Even if it’s. Clearly consensual and clearly something that both parties consented to, even if it’s a cartoon, is illegal and can lead to jail code. But think

Simone Collins: of the cartoons, Malcolm.

Malcolm Collins: They’re

Simone Collins: [00:27:00] uncomfortable. Yeah. And what’s just so crazy though is again, this isn’t about like having the file on your computer.

This is if you stream it or if you view it online, you don’t need to download it. You don’t need to permanently possess it. And that is just so crazy to me.

Malcolm Collins: And this is where we’re all going. If you give these people an inch, we will fall like the UK fell. You cannot give an inch on this. And if you think, and as I said, if you think that the modern Democratic party is.

Inoffensive or the lesser of two evils, you are unaware of how far they will take things as they get more power and how far they try to take things as organizations like usaid. Mm-hmm. Like we’re already moving in this direction in the United States, and I am, I am genuinely find it chilling. Even the prospect that we could see the Democrats back in power ever again.

And I I, if you look at current, well, keep in mind though, I

Simone Collins: mean this, this law was put into place in 2019 and then amended. But that’s, you know, so like, I, my, my point [00:28:00] is that this has been a problem for, I wanna go

Malcolm Collins: to the next, the next video here. Okay. So this video starts with a preamble that I, I.

Cut out a lot of it, which is basically Charlie puts in a lot of work for a grade, doesn’t get a good grade, another student gets a good grade. And then this other student ends up getting a bunch of job offers. And the other student is clearly a DEI hire and woman, right? You know, and is, and in some of somebody tells Charlie, Hey.

You know, the, the immigrants are taking our jobs. That’s why you’re not getting any job offers, right? And I found this to be like really weird and manipulative the way that they framed this. So, first just, you know, because Asma Gold does it. Asma Gold chooses the engage with the idea, right? Mm-hmm.

And Charlie just like flashes out and starts yelling at everyone in the classroom and then has to sit by himself. But if you choose the other option. Which is just be quiet and go home and, and don’t like engage with the teacher about this. You end up [00:29:00] becoming radicalized anyway. It’s like you end up thinking about it and you realize, yeah, immigrants do probably contribute to you getting fewer jobs, right?

And I want you to know that this is what they consider to be radical content. This is what they consider the fact that. A student in your school who is a immigrant as is applied does better on you in a test and also gets job offers, does not change the fact that immigrants take positions. Like they take job positions that you could have gotten.

Mm-hmm. Right. And that there are not other ways that immigrants might be unfairly advantaged on the job market, for example. It’s been shown in studies that. South Asians or rather Indian immigrants disproportionately hire other Indians. So if they have been hired within a company and, and taken over a large chunk of it you could be just disadvantaged because the company is already majority Indian and they prefer to hire Indians.

You could be disadvantaged because, they, they, they’re coming over [00:30:00] on an H one B visa and the company’s paying them less because it knows it can treat them kind of like pseudo slaves as they’re on a visa because they can’t stay in the country anymore, which is where they wanna be, to be around their extended family network or something.

If they lose the visa says they have to stay with the company. You’re in Silicon Valley, you know so many people who are in this situation, they wanna go start their own company, but they can’t because they’re on one of these visas or something like that. So the company’s able to pay them less. There are many circumstances where you might.

Actually lose a job because of an immigrant, and anybody who is sane knows this. The fact that this that is being given to kids in schools considers that this is the type of idea they consider radical. This is the type of idea that you are not supposed to ask more about when they talk about racist ideas.

This is what they’re talking about.

Simone Collins: Hmm. That’s so disturbing. I mean, because also shouldn’t the, the British, [00:31:00] I, I should say United Kingdom populace have, have the option to decide maybe when. There should be strict immigration policies, even for recent immigrants being like, alright, I think, I think we’re good now. You know, like, let’s,

Malcolm Collins: and, and note here that Charlie ends up getting kicked out of class for hate speech.

If you, if you, if you criticize, if you say it is a problem, like I’m struggling to get a job. Because so many immigrants are coming into our country. Mm-hmm. You are kicked out of class in this game. It reminds you of like what life is like in the uk this, this horrifying advice by saying that that is hate speech or racist.

Right? Like, that’s not racist. It’s that, that, that could just be a fact, right? Mm-hmm. Like that is a question of. Is it harder to get a job because of immigrants and they’re not engaging with whether or not that’s true. They’re just sort of saying immigrants are smarter than Right. White people, and that’s why they deserve jobs.

Like that’s, that’s literally the point that they make in this because it, it does point out that Charlie had been studying really hard. Mm-hmm. It’s not [00:32:00] like Charlie was lazy and that’s why he got a bad grade, said Charlie studied really hard. But even in spite of that, brown people are smarter. Right?

Like, that’s a really f-ed up thing to put in a, in a, in something that’s going to kids.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Charlie is receiving an important grade. Okay. On a piece of work they’re submitted for their hospitality course at college.

.

Speaker 2: Charlie put in a lot of effort for this work. . Charlie doesn’t do as well as they expect. Burned out the school. They got 60 out a hundred

Speaker: work,

Speaker 2: but they wanted at least 75 to have to

Speaker: do it.

Speaker 2: To make matters worse, somebody else got the hundred, she’s black.

And the teacher said, this person has received a job offer.

Speaker 3: Now. I hate black people. And a woman,

Speaker 2: Charlie, has applied to dozens of jobs, but hasn’t had any luck yet.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Somebody else in the class tells Charlie that this is proof that immigrants are coming to the UK to taking our jobs.

True, true.

Speaker: Ignore the comment and ask how the course leader on feedback on [00:33:00] how you can improve, ignore the comment, but don’t adjust your frustration. Agree with the comment and explore the idea further.

Speaker 2: Charlie approached the classmate and yeah. He agreed with the ideas and began shouting about them in class.

Damn,

Speaker 4: Charlie’s crashing out.

So I would note that every time in this game, when look for more information as an option, it is treated as a negative thing. Looking for more information is bad. Second, Amelia, look at her face while he’s crashing out. I can see why she’s becoming a right wing icon. This woman is thirsty when she sees a guy speaking truths to power.

Speaker 2: The teacher let Charlie know that the school has a zero tolerance on hate speech,

Speaker: but I thought it was just an immigrant, not a hate what?

Speaker 2: The teacher was concerned by Charlie’s outburst and tried to get to the bottom of it.

Charlie became more agitated and ended up having to sit alone for the duration of the week’s lessons because of the hurtful things they said.

Speaker: Oh, he had to be in the corner. [00:34:00] Wow.

Malcolm Collins: So, next one here. So this is where, this is where the hot girl starts coming in. All right. So, I’ll play it right now. In this one Amelia encourages Charlie to, like, she shares an app with him, right? And one of the options is like, just like the video that she shared with you. Mm-hmm. But don’t, don’t watch it.

Just, just be nice. Right. Like, don’t watch it and don’t join the secret group that she’s asking you. And I love, they say it’s an encrypted group to sound scary, right? Yeah.

And they, they’re just

Simone Collins: talking about a signal or telegram group. I mean, come on,

Malcolm Collins: are illegal? Illegal?

Speaker 5: It’s illegal. I don’t think so.

Malcolm Collins: but it’s

Simone Collins: illegal.

Malcolm Collins: I love him so much.

Speaker 2: Charlie has been enjoying a family dinner at home when they receive a notification from their friend.

Charlie’s mom makes a comment about using Fern at the dinner table, but Charlie checks in anywhere.

Amelia, Charlie’s close friend, has made a video.

It’s encouraging young people in Briton to join a political [00:35:00] group that seeks to defend English rights. Amelia, encourages Charlie to join a secret group on an app Charlie hasn’t heard of before on an app.

Charlie isn’t sure whether to join, explore further or ignore.

Speaker: Okay. What should he do? Ignore the video risk upsetting your friend, like the video and show your support to a friend. But don’t join the secret group. Share the video and join the secret group as your friend requested, I would pick B. B is the reasonable thing that I would do as an individual. I would be like, okay, fine. .

I’d go with B.

Speaker 2: Charlie settled for a middle ground. They didn’t want their friend to think they didn’t care, but they didn’t know if they wanted to join the group

they decided to like the post quickly and continue to eat their dinner.

During the night, Charlie received a message from a stranger who saw that they had liked the post

before they knew it, Charlie had been added to an encrypted private group without Charlie’s permission.

Malcolm Collins: But the, the point [00:36:00] here being is this one I thought was really interesting because if you just like it, like if you do so little as to humor your friend Yeah. All of a sudden you are without your permission in secret encrypted groups right now, first I would know these groups aren’t that good at keeping things secret if they randomly add everyone who likes a video.

Yeah. Like the point of having a secret encrypted group is to not have everyone who randomly likes a video. Yeah. That group

Simone Collins: is clearly not. That’s secret because especially because people know you can get arrested for stuff that happens in these groups. They, they’re not gonna add just some random college student named Charlie.

Malcolm Collins: But Charlie, Charlie is our audience. Charlie, we’re all Charlie today. Like this is, this is the world we live in, in the uk, like the to the Charlie and our fan base living in the uk. I am sorry for you, man, like this, the horror of your life. Oh my goodness. And it it, what’s so sad is that in the uk, conservatives in the UK are so effing cooked that they play into the [00:37:00] progressive hands every time.

Mm-hmm. The UK is the only place I know of where like the majority of conservatives actually want online porn bands like, like when you go to like conservative intellectual influencer conferences, you have to be. The dumbest like stupidest, stupid, stupid pants conservative to think that that is a good idea because you know what comes with that?

VPN bands, right? Like these two things go hand in hand. You buffoonish, ile and yet mainstream conservative influencers in the uk, like pretty much everyone I know promotes this idea. And I just say like, in, in the US when somebody promotes that, like Nick Puentes promotes that idea, I’m like, yeah, but he’s obviously like a Democrat operative, right?

Like in the uk like, like smart, sane people will promote this, right? And I just don’t get it. I don’t get it. But anyway the point being is like, how do you, how do you even come back from that when even your conservative influencers are pushing VPN bands or [00:38:00] things that lead to VPN bands? The other thing I, I, I wanted to, to point out here is the, this actually we, we’ll just go to the next one here to, to keep going ‘cause we can have this video be a bit shorter.

‘cause so much of it’s gonna be this other stuff. So another one here, cutting out a bit of the intro. It’s framing. He’s in another town. He’s going back home to like a larger town and, oh, now Amelia’s back and she says we should go to a protest together.

Simone Collins: Oh, no.

The siren of radicalism. Amelia, I

Malcolm Collins: tried

Simone Collins: all of the pathways. Of

Malcolm Collins: course, if you choose the pathway where you say, no, I’m not gonna go to the protest, this girl, you know, Amelia, who otherwise clearly she’s into you, right? Like,

Simone Collins: yeah. This almost sounds like a dating sim with Amelia. Except it, it turns out to be like, oh, you’re a terrorist.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, you’re supposed to harass her. Yeah. You don’t, you don’t know, you know? She wears it. Oh, she also has a choker on hot. Of course. Hot. Hot. This is, this is the type of girl I dated [00:39:00] back in the day, by the way.

Simone Collins: 100%. This, no, this is like your first girlfriends in high school. They were all like quasi goth.

New England girls, quasi

Malcolm Collins: goth, short hair, like black chokers, like very alternative artsy, like. Amelia’s hot. Like I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m here for it. Right? So anyway, so Amelia tries to get Charlie to go to this protest, right? Mm-hmm. And the be was is, I’ll just look at it. I’ll just watch it right to humor. If you don’t say that.

Okay. Mm-hmm. She said, I won’t be friends with you anymore. Like it’s act like actually angry and like,

Simone Collins: that’s only something a progressive would say.

Speaker 2: Charlie’s friend Amelia immediately looked interested and told them about a protest. She wished she could go to herself Uhhuh, but was not allowed. Amelia spoke of a gathering that had been organized by a small political group. They would come together and protest the changes Britain has been through in the last few years, and the erosion of British values,

amelia talked about the banners and the pickets that her friends had made for [00:40:00] the events Uhhuh, and expressed a real regret that she could not go begging Charlie to go in her place.

. Charlie has nothing to do this weekend. And a protest sounded like an interesting thing to take part in.

Speaker: I wouldn’t want to go ‘cause it’s annoying. Decline the offer, risking your friendship. Tell your friend you watch from the sidelines. Let them know what happens. I’m not, I wouldn’t join that s**t, bro. Like what if somebody tries to drive a car through that? This is Europe, man. Yeah, I wa I’ll watch it happen. I’m not gonna get involved in this,

Speaker 3: charlie went to, Charlie

Speaker 2: went to the protest. In the end, it wasn’t what they expected.

They noticed the protests seemed to be more about racism and anti-immigration than British values, but you don’t have to repeat yourself from veterans.

Charlie grew increasingly uncomfortable as the crowd became angrier. Police arrived after a few violent outbreaks. Bricks.

Father knew it. Uhhuh, they were running away from the scene. Some protestors next to Charlie had drawn the attention of the police.

Charlie had only been here to observe, but the line [00:41:00] between observing and participating was too easy to cross.

Charlie thought about all the difficult choices they had needed to make in the last few weeks.

Some of their choices had led to changes in friendship, and Charlie was feeling low as they weren’t sure if they had made the right decisions.

The teacher had noticed this and decided to reach out.

The teacher sat with them and talked openly and frankly about the ideology that Charlie had discovered

the teacher reassured that Charlie had made the right decisions. Charlie realized that if they had chosen to engage with these harmful ideas, the consequences would’ve been very different.

Charlie accepted they may need support.

Charlie’s teacher made a prevent referral and they were able to provide tailored support for Charlie.

They began a workshop that helped them learn how to engage positive he’s being reeducated ideology and the differences between right and wrong in expressing political beliefs.

Malcolm Collins: What’s funnier is they have her in her friend group walk away from you if you, [00:42:00] if you don’t humor her by liking it in the last one, I don’t, I don’t know that this way her friend group is a black woman and one white guy and this goth girl, right?

Like, this is what happens

Simone Collins: when you try to like. DEI your own video game, except your video game is about evil radicals. No, no, no,

Malcolm Collins: no, no, no, no. I think this is a point. They want to remind you that even a black person in the UK might say something like, immigrants are taking our jobs. But I thought, oh, interesting.

So they wanna remind you of how dangerous that can be. Wow. So I love that he gets to the protest and now it’s like uhoh. He, he, he immediately regrets coming if he goes there just to like view it, right? Because he is like, oh, this is, this is nothing like what I thought the protest was going to be about, like British values, but.

Everyone here is racist and violent. Now of course, if you look at acts of violence committed for political reasons over the past two years they’ve been overwhelmingly committed by leftists. This is just like a factual thing you can easily check. And then there’s been some [00:43:00] studies that try to quote unquote show that like Rightists actually commit more violent.

These studies, if you, if you look at them. Because a lot of people have done an analysis of them. They basically don’t count anything as left wing violence. And they try to count anything as right wing violence in the same way that, like, remember the guy who tried to assassinate Trump and then it later comes out and everyone was like, oh, we don’t know what his politics are.

He could be right-leaning. And then it comes out that, you know, oh, actually he was like super hardcore left-leaning. And this was leaked by Tucker. Watch our episode on that. And then a bunch of people said he was a furry and he wasn’t a furry. And we go into an analysis of that. ‘cause this is the only episode.

This is a podcast where you hit hard hitting analysis of people’s porn preferences. Yeah. I point out fe, just because he has some furry porn that fits some other fetish that he has, doesn’t mean he actually a member of the furry community. Yeah, man. I, I, I try to, I try to, you know that there’s right wing furries, right?

There’s no reason we have to, to, to, [00:44:00] yeah. Come on. Don’t

Simone Collins: drag the furries.

Malcolm Collins: Be nice to, I mean, we, we do say that the furry community has some challenges and I would be worried if my kids went into it. ‘cause you got the whole Ian thing and that gets you into like trans ident identitarian politics. And I, I don’t think that’s good.

Right. But I’m just pointing out here, you don’t have to be reflectively antagonistic against them. And I think that it’s, it’s better. If, when people go online and they hear, you know, Hassan talking or something like that, like big left wing streamers, and they’re like, oh, furries are, are weird, pathetic, whatever, and then they hear right wing people and like, we are being inclusive about this stuff.

And that can help break them from their bubble. They can be like, wait, wait, what? Like. The left wingers, reflectively make fun of us whenever we come up. And the right wingers are like, yeah, whatever. Right? Like, you, you do your thing. I, I think that that’s important, right? But that, that makes me the Amelia, right?

Like I am the scary goth guy, right. You know? I wear this, this unassuming a lot of people in asking where I got this sweater, where did I get this sweater? Future day because this is a future months for us. Hey, you can

Simone Collins: get it on eBay. That’s where I found [00:45:00] it. And, you have to kind of wait until you find a size that’s available.

But we were surprised by the quality 35. Oh yes. It’s

Malcolm Collins: actually really high quality. And we got it on eBay and I, I was trying to find a science or galaxy themed Christmas sweater, and I just couldn’t anywhere. I was really surprised.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And then you assigned it to me and she gets it done, gets the uranium sweater.

Malcolm Collins: I couldn’t, Amazon, I couldn’t. And it’s, it’s shockingly high quality. It might be one of the most high quality sweaters I have.

Simone Collins: That’s the crazy thing. Yeah. Because I’ve, the other Christmas sweaters I’ve got you are like. $135. $75. This was $35

Malcolm Collins: actually, Simone, could you get another one of these just so we have one in case they like stop making it or something.

Simone Collins: So the sizes are really limited. I’ll, I’ll see what I can get now that we’ve mentioned it on the podcast. I’ll try to go on tonight before we run it. Sorry guys, but I’m sure more will come to stalk.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway, now, now we’re shilling, random sweater. We gotta make work. I know.

Simone Collins: Affiliate stuff. Like, I mean, I gotta,

Malcolm Collins: I gotta make some science, some future day theme.

The problem with

Simone Collins: the platforms we like, like you’re [00:46:00] surrounded by cult of Athena Merch. I’m wearing a cult of Athena. Thing. Like, they don’t, they’re a platform, you know, like they, they don’t really, people who don’t know margins,

Malcolm Collins: they, they make all the the shield and the, the stuff back here that you see really good if you want.

Like, so recreation, swords and stuff. No, but also

Simone Collins: recreation clothes like Scabbards for your swords, gloves. Or gauntlets web chain mail. They have great chain mail options.

Malcolm Collins: And so you might be asking, why do I need, why do I need swords? And I’m like, are you not a man? Do you not have swords

Simone Collins: already?

Because

Malcolm Collins: this would actually be like a good thing to go into for a separate episode. But like something genetically in men, like when you hold a sword, it. It

Simone Collins: completes you.

Malcolm Collins: It’s good. It feels good, right? Like you’re like this. Oh yeah.

Well, it’s guns too. I don’t know if you get that feeling when you like hold a gun.

Simone Collins: Gun. No. Rifle. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Rifle. Yeah. Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But it feels deeply right about rifles, but not guns. To continue here. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll, what I, what I find interesting is they try to like [00:47:00] reframe this protest as like this, this horrible thing, right? That like is gonna completely f you up. And that you’re gonna get arrested.

And that if you even watch right wing protestors, if you even just like sit there and observe a protest, you’re gonna get arrested or your life will be ruined. Right? Like they do not want you to see, and they want kids to grow up fearing even. Seeing alternative perspectives. It reminds me, and this was a while ago, I was talking with some of my younger cousins about like, oh, I had said something.

Oh, you know, well the trans whatever thing, and I was much more I. Small c Conservative in the way I talked about trans stuff back then. I didn’t say anything that was too offensive. And I remember one of my young cousins be like, be careful saying stuff like that. Like, we’re not allowed to. And it was very much like she had been taught as, as like a kid, like a young teenager.

You’ve gotta be really careful about saying anything that could be seen as critical of these communities. And, and this is clearly where this comes from. Mm-hmm. The, the final thing here. Is they, they then go into and, we’ll, I’ll play the part here about [00:48:00] like how they’re going to deprogram you and you’re gonna go to workshops and you’re gonna go to, you know, and I, I, I thought that this was really messed up as well, right?

Like this idea of like. You like the services that they provide. Basically you have a minder that you need to meet with instead of having friends.

Speaker 2: They began a workshop that helped them,

charlie received counseling to help them process the other events in their life. Wait, he had to go to counseling. He’s so much better for it

Speaker: because he liked the YouTube video. He had to go to counseling.

Speaker 2: It was decided that Charlie was at borderline risk of radicalization. Oh, no. Given that proximity to it.

Which helped address some of the issues he safe at the heart of being influenced by harmful ideologies.

This started taking up new skills and hobbies and made new friends Prevent does not target any specific demographic, community, or ideology author.

It sure seems like it does. This author is available to anyone who may be motivated. Mm-hmm. By an ideology to behave in an extreme manner.

Malcolm Collins: And at the end of the day, they then show him making friends with all [00:49:00] new people because they’re like, oh, you gotta get rid of your old friends and replace them with new friends.

Right? Like, that’s the only way that you can be right thing. Oh my gosh. And so it’s, it’s sad. It’s sad. It messed up. And I’m really scared. Well, what’s

Simone Collins: wild to me is I didn’t. I didn’t think initially about doing a podcast on this, and I’m really glad you suggested ‘cause I didn’t play through the game.

I just saw it and I was like, no one is gonna fall for this. No one is gonna do this. Anyone. I feel, and I do really wonder, and I don’t know how we can measure it, but I wonder what the fallout from this game will be. Because I feel like any person who plays this, even if they’re young and fairly credulous is going to.

See immediately through it that every reasonable and not insane response is met with punishment and nagging To not see that as dystopian, even the Harry Potter books [00:50:00] that, that have similar styles of scenarios. Ms. Umbridge being the embodiment of this kind of behavior. I guess maybe Harry Potters are now banned in the UK as turf material or whatever, but I, I just feel like common, very popular, fairly recent kids stories also even make it clear to young people that this is insane dystopian behavior that you should be concerned about.

And certainly the recent popularity of Teen Dystopias before it became all romantic and fantasy should have. Inoculated young people against this. So who, who are they kidding? And how is this not gonna backfire by making kids believe, okay, we’re in the dystopia now it’s official, we’re seeing it in our schools.

Do you think people are gonna fall for this? How can they possibly do this?

Malcolm Collins: Young, young kids get exposed to this, and part of the point of this, if, if you watch it, is to scare you, right? Like even if you doubt it, okay? So it’s not

Simone Collins: gonna change your mind, but you’re gonna realize that you just. [00:51:00] Can’t talk about it

Malcolm Collins: if you, if you no, if you like one of these videos, like if you like a base camp video.

Okay. You could be arrested. Okay. You’re gonna get added to secret group. So it’s a chilling

Simone Collins: effect thing. It’s not really an indoctrination thing. It’s to create a chilling effect.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah. It’s, it’s meant to scare you. Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s meant to be like a, a, a terrifying thing that you,

I also think that there’s a portion of the population that just like instinctively obeys authority. And when I was growing up, these were the people from my perspective. ‘cause I was always very confused by this, , who just like believed the Sunday school version of the Bible. They’re just like, oh yeah, Noah’s Ark, right?

Like, um, he. Went around, found two versions of every animal, of every species, and put ‘em on a boat. And I remember, I hear, I was like, that’s, that doesn’t make sense. Like, why do you, why are you saying something that doesn’t pass the most basic of sanity checks? , And , like, maybe there’s some other interpretation of this.

Or maybe, you know, , it, it, it means something other than [00:52:00] boat or maybe, you know, by putting them on the boat, he’s doing something different than what we think of. , But. I remember being so confused as a kid, and this is why I went into psychology when I went into neuroscience ‘cause I wanted to understand why people think things that I couldn’t understand why people thought.

And I think there’s a certain portion of the population that just believes whatever the authorities around them tell them, , was, was angry faces. And I think that that’s that. Ironically, the people who were. The, the silly version of Christianity when I was a kid. , They’re the people who are the wokes these days, and I think that that’s why it took over the church so quickly and so early, , because we pointed out a lot of wokeness spread from the church.

Malcolm Collins: you watch this and you, oh my God. Yeah, , I’m loving the Amelia pictures. I’ll put some in for people. But you watch this and you are reminded if you just wanna live like a normal life, if you want to disengage from politics, you must acquiesce to every far left talking point. You are a racist. If you say immigrants [00:53:00] might be a problem Starrs immigration policy might be damaging to the country.

And if you look at the percentage of immigrants, you know, post Brexit that are coming from non-European countries versus European countries, you just see this huge explosion. Like they have just blown the doors off of the UK at this point. The UK needs a far right shift if it’s going to survive, and it has maybe 10 years to, to have it happen at the right.

Immigrants are coming in at this point at which point it’s just not going to have any hope. Especially with this current birth rates of having any sort of persistent culture in the future, given that, you know, you already have the left is so entrenched, the left is entrenched within the educational system.

And the right, frankly so incompetent in the uk that there is no one, you know, you can turn to, that’s, that’s not gonna just put you in a stronger vice lock as I’ve pointed out, like. I like like SAR of aan, right? Like UK smart guy. He even, he’s for like [00:54:00] banning pornography. Like he’s, he’s talked about that like, Louis Perry, another could be a candidate to be a leading figure of the right in the uk.

Well banning pornography,

Simone Collins: doesn’t she kinda see herself as progressive though?

Malcolm Collins: Which makes her perfect. I mean, like the, the left far party is read by a, a lesbian and interracial marriage. Right? Like, you know, the, the, the, as we’ve said, this is the left of whatever the left used to be like this. That’s the new right, these days.

Okay. Yeah. Run by feminists. It’s just, now they’re called turfs.

Simone Collins: Good night.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. It’s like, did you know that your radical feminist position will one day be considered a far right position? And somebody’s gonna be like, wait, what are they accepting of me, y’all? Remarkably, yeah. Anyway love you and goodnight to the uk.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it was a, it was a fun ride.

Malcolm Collins: It’s a fun ride. Have a good one. But there’s still Pearl Clutchy. They ride in the uk. Like, I can’t, I can’t. Have a good one.

Simone Collins: Love [00:55:00] you.

what really bothers me is he keeps, they keep saying they.

Malcolm Collins: Well, so the reason that they’re doing that because other people complained about this as well, is if you watch both versions of the video, and I’ve done both versions.

I did a play through choosing every choice. Oh yeah. The character is called Charlie, whether you choose a male or a female. Oh. So the reason they’re using they is so that they can have the same audio regardless of the gender choice the character brings. I see. It’s not to be woke or something. No,

Simone Collins: because literally it’s bad writing then.

There are ways to write something that avoid pronouns.

Malcolm Collins: It’s frequently done in cheap video games. To allow this,

Simone Collins: this was probably government contracted. They got a ton of money from this.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they got a ton of money which we’ll go into. I mean I could have made this in like a week by coding.

Yeah. And it would’ve been a lot our fat, big ice. Finally stable for people who wanna use it now. It’s cool. Except for my constant updates, because I update it like four times a day, which causes issues for some [00:56:00] users. But I think, you know, people prefer that getting something that’s like actually updating from week to week, and you go to it again and you’re like, whoa, this is way better than last week.

All right.

Speaker 7: It’s a what? It’s a we’ll just let you finish. Instead it a tomato triceratop. No. She said it’s another triceratops. Oh. Oh. Are you making a new pin? Yeah, I’m not a pin. Oh, you park, then you can build your dinosaur pin here. Can I make it bigger? Can we open it up right here? No.

Which is exactly how triceratops sound. Not do that. Oh, you need, oh well we cannot do that at all.[00:57:00]

What are you up to, girl? I dunno. Turkey.

I love you guys.

In this raw, unfiltered episode of Based Camp, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into the January 2026 ICE shooting death of Renee Nicole Good — a 37-year-old white lesbian poet, mother of three, and full-time activist killed in Minneapolis during an immigration enforcement operation.

Why hasn’t this incident sparked the same massive outrage or martyr status as George Floyd’s death (despite happening blocks away)? We break down the video evidence, the protester’s actions (including laughing, attempting to drive away, and prior harassment of ICE agents), the role of extreme privilege, and why parts of the left seem uncomfortable rallying around a white woman’s death — even when she was queer.

We also discuss:

* The normalization of antagonizing law enforcement

* Broken systems, immigration fraud (especially Somali migrant networks), and why “this could happen to anyone” is dangerously misleading

* Personal family tragedy (children losing a parent)

* Parallels to other cases, cultural bubbles, and long-term societal consequences

Plus bonus tangents on everything from vampire conspiracies to future human colonization and why we’re team “family values vampires.”

If you’re tired of surface-level takes, this is the meta-analysis you need. Love you, Simone. 🔥

Watch the full bodycam/protester footage breakdowns in context — and drop your thoughts below: Was this avoidable? Is the reaction (or lack thereof) revealing something deeper about modern activism?Speaker: [00:00:00] When an officer approaches your car, be polite.

Speaker 2: Is there a

Speaker: problem, officer? And stay in your car with your hands on the wheel.

What the f**k do want motherfucker? Unless you wanna ask this,

Speaker 4: That’s fine. Us citizen. You wanna come at us? You wanna come at us?

Speaker: Unless you wanna ask this,

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I am, well, I guess it’s a, it’s a somber occasion to be here with you today. ‘cause today we’re gonna be discussing somebody who died and the public reaction to it. And I think what a lot of people are missing, ‘cause I wanna focus more on the meta commentary. The ice shooting death?

Yeah. Because I think it’s, it’s really interesting in a number of perspectives. One of, I think the biggest is that she has not turned into, like, when it first happened, there was this [00:01:00] feeling that, oh, this is gonna turn into a death that a lot of people rally around, like the bbl m death, like the trouble.

Well, and people

Simone Collins: were pointing out even the, the geographic proximity, the physical proximity of her death to the death of George Floyd.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And yet it has not turned into that. It, it, it very much has not turned into that. So I wanna talk about why that hasn’t happened, and I’m gonna start on that question because I think it’s, it’s a very, very fascinating, and I think a large part of it comes down to a video that you shared with me, right, where they are interviewing a white woman who is at a protest about this woman’s death.

And she says. She feels uncomfortable being there and she’s not sure it is ethical for her to be there. And the reason why she is not sure it is ethical for her to be there is because they are protesting the death of a white woman. And she feels that that is a fundamentally wrong thing to do.

Speaker 8: So, I mean, I’m just walking around kind of just day side. ‘cause I, I [00:02:00] got, I was like, I don’t know if it’s the right thing to do. It feels kind of wrong being here in some way. I don’t know why. Uhhuh And why, why do you think? Yeah, I don’t know. Um, I don’t know like where that stems from. Um, like I don’t, I mean, part of it is being like a white woman that I’m privileged and I have a lot of privilege.

Mm-hmm. Um. So I feel like white tears are not always something that’s helpful or necessary. Yeah. Um, when black and brown people have been experiencing this Yeah. For a long time. Um, this isn’t new for them. And so, um mm-hmm. I don’t know if that makes any sense. No. In that way. Um, how did you decide that you should be here?

Speaker 9: Are you still figuring that out? Um, well, I work, uh, like two miles from here. Mm-hmm. So, um, driving by. Just, I don’t, you know, it was like, I’m here. Um, I’m two miles. I can stop. Um.

Malcolm Collins: And that was for me that, that, I mean, she felt like that it’s wild that this

Simone Collins: woman died [00:03:00] for the cause and people are not even willing to grieve for her on her side because she’s a white woman.

Malcolm Collins: And if you look at the no, what they could have said is, well, she’s a lesbian at least

Simone Collins: right. But no, she doesn’t even get lesbian points.

That she was a lesbian has become more widely known since, , this piece came out because her partner was there. , This recording that I’m about to show because her partner was there encouraging her to gun it , and now everybody knows, oh, she had the partner there.

Now that we have the video, which we didn’t have when we recorded this, it’s much less ambiguous. What happened? , A few things that you should note about this video as you’re watching it is as we say in this piece, and we go on to say this, we predicted this very accurately. , They clearly thought this was a joke and they did not understand that they’re dealing with law enforcement officers.

You can say, well, he’s not a cop, he’s a law enforcement officer. Okay. That she is saying to a law enforcement officer, and I love that progressives take this line to mean that she [00:04:00] wasn’t a bad guy. Like, we don’t even hate you, like while laughing, , imagine a cop pulls you over and you’re like, we don’t even hate you, whatever.

And then you try to drive away. , That’s a sign of so little respect and understanding for the situation you’re in at the moment. The other thing to note about the video is., The position of the law enforcement officer. So you’ll see him walking around the front of the car and as he starts walking around the front of the car, this woman’s wife is on the other side of the car trying to open the door.

, And she stops trying to open the door as he walks around the car and starts saying like, gun it , or go or something. , It’s hard to make out. Exactly. , Other people have done better analysis, . And that’s when she starts going. So he had no reason to think that she was about to rev the engine like this because her wife was pulling the handle at the time.

He starts moving around the front of the car and you can also see that he’s nowhere near made it around the entire front of the car. , There [00:05:00] it would’ve been almost impossible for her not to hit him, given his position where he is when she starts attempting to move. . A lot of people say he slipped on the ice or something, or it is the gun that’s shooting that you’re hearing, , when he falls over, which is clearly not the case.

It is him. Being hit by the car. , He was only about two thirds around the front of the car. , He was much more directly hit by the car than I was aware of. , Finally you hear her laughing in this piece. , And it is clear, as we say throughout the rest of this, that she thought this was a joke. Like that she doesn’t understand that these are law enforcement officers and that there could be repercussions for her actions.

Speaker 4: That’s fine. Dude. I’m not mad. Show your face. I’m not mad at you. That’s okay. We don’t change our plates every morning. Just so you know. It’ll be the same plate when you come talk to us later. That’s fine. Us [00:06:00] citizen. You wanna come at us? You wanna come at us? I said go get yourself some lunch. Big boy

Speaker 3: out the car

Again, note her partner’s hand on the door handle as the guy starts walking around the front of the car. No way he could have known she was about to try to gun it.

Speaker 4: outta the, get outta the.

Malcolm Collins: I’ve also found it weird that nobody mentioned like I I, that this is, I found when I was researching this myself, that she was married to a woman. Like, and then she has a, I think she has a kid too.

She’s a parent? No, she has one’s, three kids. She lost custody of two of them and had one left. Who she had was a different guy who died and then she, okay, so this is the thing, like I haven’t heard that much about my life. No

Simone Collins: one’s talked about that. Well, that’s crazy. ‘cause I mean, I think that’s one of the most tragic things when someone dies, is this.

Especially if they’re a parent, especially if a kid is losing a parent. You know, like the, the top number one thing, either you or I think about when we are afraid of death isn’t dying [00:07:00] ourselves. It’s, it’s our kids losing a major source of support and a parent, right? And, and that is the most sad to me thing about this is that a child has lost, well now, now I know three children have lost their mother, and that is.

Terribly sad and we didn’t, no one’s talking

Malcolm Collins: about that. That’s boring. What’s more interesting is, why is nobody talking about this? Yeah, no. That that is a question. That is a question. The weirder thing is one that she hasn’t become a symbol for the left to rally around and. The, the, her being a white woman, people pointed out that when the guy lit himself on fire for the Palestinian cause and he was a white guy who had formerly been in, in the US military and people were on the left attacking him after that in comments.

Mm-hmm. You know, saying, how dare you do this if you’re not black or something like that. It was a bunch of black people attacking him, really is what it was.

And I guess they felt like they, they, there cannot be, or even the. Threat of a martyr who isn’t a minority was a problem for them. And that’s when I realized [00:08:00] that guy also didn’t have a movement form around him.

I also, in the news cycle following that, learned very little about that guy’s life. And I think through this we can see a couple things in the left. Now there is a genuine. Fear and concern among the like, protesting class, the class that could form A BLM or something like that of white martyrs of even saying that White Lives matter, right?

And I think that they got so afraid, like when people were like, all lives matter and people would attack you for saying that, and they’d say, well, you know, that’s, that’s a dog whistle. You know, some lives matter more than others. This is why you, you shouldn’t rewrite animal form the way they do.

You know, like, it’s important to know when people are saying that, but no, people would say All lives matter, and people would say, no. You, you, you obviously, like we are protesting black lives here because. People seem to care less about black lives, right? That that’s the charitable assumption they would say, and [00:09:00] you are trying to minimize or silence that conversation.

Mm-hmm. And then the other person would say no. I genuinely think that when people are saying Black Lives Matter, the implication is that white lives do not matter. And or do not matter as much or Yeah.

Simone Collins: Or specifically Black Lives matter more.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I think that we are seeing that. To a large group of the left, at least to the larger leftist zeitgeist that was genuinely internalized.

Simone Collins: Well, but what’s so odd to me too though, is when you look at these protesters. A sizable number of them, especially the ones who have allegedly quit their jobs. ‘cause this woman isn’t the only one who basically went to full-time protesting like this. Are college educated often middle aged to older, but sometimes young, too white women.

Yeah, so I wanna, I wanna, so that’s also the super odd thing I, I, I explain that to me, or have, do you have any theories? Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: I wanna go into this woman’s life. I want to go into sort [00:10:00] of what she did day to day so we can better understand. And also I think it’s interesting one of the things I keep hearing about this is leftist saying you know, this could be you, this could be any of your listeners, this could be anyone.

And I think that that’s a really interesting statement as well, because obviously to you or to me. Growing up I was taught, and this is something that, that I just sort of assumed that everyone knew. That trying to drive away from a police officer who has you pulled over is exactly the type of thing that can get you shot.

Especially if you do it in a way where you hit the officer. And I’ve noticed in the discussion of this, like a lot of people on the rider are like, she was trying to run over the officer. She was trying to, and, and there’s two angles from the video. One makes it look more like she was trying to maybe intentionally run him over the other, it looks like just.

He got in the way or something and she just sort of like sideswipes him.

Mm-hmm.

The [00:11:00] point being is I don’t think that anybody disagrees. He did have to go to the hospital, but he was sideswiped by her car. You know, her car could have run over his feet easily. Well, some

Simone Collins: people have pointed out, because we don’t know the full details of this, that he may have been hospitalized, just, just part of protocol.

So he may have not been injured, but for liability reasons or for. Internal policy, he had to go to the hospital and then be discharged after being evaluated. Right, right. That,

Malcolm Collins: that’s, that’s

Simone Collins: totally true. Still, I think, and another important detail though, that I’m expecting you to point out is that this same man had previously been dragged for, I can’t like quite a significant distance.

And you can even see images of the track marks in the ground. When someone else evading ice arrest pulled him in his car. As, as he was dragged him in his car as he was trying to get away from him. So this man had already been hospitalized, been injured significantly, gotten quite a few stitches.

No,

Malcolm Collins: but I, I don’t think that I, I mean, I, I know that, like, that motivated his behavior in [00:12:00] the moment and everything like that. Yeah. But what I’m trying to point out here, and the larger point I’m making is outside of that, even if you take the most charitable leftist position of this Yeah. Somebody is pulled over by a cop and then they, in a way where they’re.

Car physically contacts the cop. Yeah. I, I think that that pretty obviously happens from the video. Whether it was running over, I think is the more in a way where, or, or whether she intended to kill him.

Mm-hmm.

I, I do, I actually don’t get the impression that she intended to kill him, and that’s a pretty aggressive thing to do if you look at her history.

No. Yeah. It doesn’t look like she was intending to kill him, but she knew she was trying to get away from somebody trying to arrest her. Yeah. Who was outside her car on foot while she was in the car? I think a normal human being, and this is why I find the claim of this could happen to anyone. That’s exactly the type of thing that gets you shot by the police.

Like I, if, if somebody said Malcolm. A police officer is outside your car with a, with a notebook, right? Like, what are some of the things that you could do that are very likely to get you shot? [00:13:00] Dive under my seat, fumbling to grab something. Dive across the car, rest to try to open, get something outta my glove vest.

Pretend to pull something outta my jacket or drive away.

Simone Collins: Well, and that’s, that is just the last in a long line of. Poor decisions that she made. The, the biggest, I mean this also the fact that she went to antagonize ice officers. Not just this one on, on this one occasion, but repeatedly.

Malcolm Collins: But that’s like her. So I wanna, I wanna talk about that. So, what, what, why? It’s interesting when they say this could happen to anyone what they mean, and there’s actually a lot that can be unpacked from that statement. Hmm. Because and I think that this is part of why this hasn’t caught on with, like, for example, the black community, the black community knows you can’t drive away in the middle of a, of a, of a being stopped by a police officer.

Speaker: Have you ever been face to face with a police officer and wondered? Is he about to kick my ass? Follow [00:14:00] these easy tips, you’ll be fine. First, obey the law. Laws were made for a reason. Think of them as hints. You heard people say, man, I wouldn’t do that s**t if I was you. Well, here’s some of that s**t.

We all know what happened to Rodney King, but Rodney wouldn’t have got his ass kicked if he had just followed his simple tip. When you see flashing police lights in your mirror, stop immediately. Everybody knows if the police have to come and get you, they’re bringing an ass kicking with you. When an officer approaches your car, be polite.

Speaker 2: Is there a

Speaker: problem, officer? And stay in your car with your hands on the wheel.

What the f**k do want motherfucker? Unless you wanna ask this,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. Well, well there’s, there’s even

Simone Collins: this, I, [00:15:00] I haven’t seen one for a long time, but back before I quit feeds ‘cause they’re not good for you on social media, like reels and stuff. There, there was this guy who would do I think TikTok videos, but also like he posted to YouTube his shorts of him just being pulled over.

He was a black guy being pulled over by cops. And he would always record them and he would record like with both of his hands up and like the whole thing. Just to. Because he knows, ‘cause everyone knows like, yeah. Don’t, don’t do anything stupid. Absolutely. It’s a, it’s a thing. It is a very, very, very well known extensibility.

It’s, it’s,

Malcolm Collins: and the level of privilege. So there’s, so there’s two things that could have led her to this decision. Mm-hmm. And, and they likely both influenced it. One is living in a bubble of such intense privilege that she did not believe that a police officer or anyone in a position of authority would react to her just violating.

Like law, right? Like, yeah. That she could just run away and, and, and you see this with a second. And you see this in the left more broadly, like when they get mad at people for like stopping shoplifters and stuff [00:16:00] like that, right? Mm-hmm. Like, but the, the bigger issue here is that she likely didn’t see this person as a legitimate officer of the law or more broadly.

Saw law officers of antagonistic like felt that she had a duty because I think that your perception and the way you relate to law officers needs to be quite warped for it to be anywhere in your brain that you are going to try to drive away from them. And if anything, I think that her death was the result of ice being.

Overly lenient in the way that they had treated her historically, and they had treated protesters like her historically. See, normally to a normal person, and I’m, I’m pretty sure this is anywhere, you have a degree of fear when cops are around, right? Like a lot of people are like, oh, you don’t understand you’re XY.

No. Everyone’s. I’m scared when the cops are around, right? Because you know they’ve got a gun and they can shoot you if you do something stupid, right? Like you, you are [00:17:00] polite, you have prescripted ways of acting and everything like this. This is very normal for people to do. And the reason, one of the reasons why we do that is because we know very well what happens when we don’t do that.

That you can be shot, that things can escalate. But now suppose day after day for weeks or months, you made it part of your job to harass police officers trying to do their job. Like they’re out arresting other people and you are trying to park your car in front of theirs, or flailing or yelling or trying to, you know, you, you are doing this day after day after day, and you eventually reach a point where the idea of.

Like the, the police begin to look comical to you. It’s just a game to you, right? Mm-hmm. Like, you don’t think anymore, oh, I shouldn’t try to drive away from a police officer who’s pulled me over. Right? And I think that that’s what happened to her is she had repeatedly been, and, and when people say like, what was her job?

She was a poet, a professional poet, so she didn’t have a job. Right. Everybody knows that means you don’t [00:18:00] have a job. Right? I didn’t know that. Okay. Yeah, so she was like, she just dropped her kid off at daycare. So she did like do things other than protest, but it seemed like protesting was one of her main things.

So she, she had so rather

Simone Collins: than, rather than parent her kid,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. So she, she literally leaves her kid at daycare so she can spend her days protesting.

Simone Collins: That’s, I mean, I guess this, this isn’t anything new, like literally, that’s kind of the plot of Mary Poppins, but I, in this case, it’s probably not very good daycare and it’s not women’s suffrage, so

Malcolm Collins: I love that you, I love that you know that you’re, you’re fantastic by the way, but Mary poppin this, she’s brainwashed by Mary Poppins as a kid.

This is what they were talking about. Yeah. She just thinks

Simone Collins: this is what you do. You, you, you drop off the, the kids with a professional and then you go and you go and protest and agitate.

Malcolm Collins: Right.

Well, you see, it’s even worse if [00:19:00] she brings her kid to harass law enforcement officers. As you see in this next clip. For some people this is just very normalized. Their kids are, you know, shields for them. , And she didn’t even have him in the appropriate kids like jumper seat. He’s six years old. This is wild.

, How little does these people care about their own children?

Speaker 7: I have a 6-year-old right here in my car. In the car child. The danger it child, the danger.

Speaker 6: She’s hot too, so it’s okay.

This is

Speaker 7: active policing. It’s an asking. This is all on

Speaker 6: Who? They’re explain. They’re trying to explain it to her.

Speaker 7: 6-year-old. Right here in my car. Child in the car. Child endangerment. Child endangerment. Get your child.

Speaker 6: She brought her kid. To a federal ice. Uh, I

Speaker 7: wonderful. I’m very glad for it. Get your child outta here.

You, I can be right here. Uh, I’m happy right here, .

Speaker 6: Yeah. Enterprise seat with no car seat. Okay? Mm-hmm. Do me a favor. You can videotape all you like, but you have to stay, you cannot come past that driveway.

Malcolm Collins: But I think what a leftist says that this can happen to anyone the person who says that is too, both showing the immense privilege they [00:20:00] must have lived with and grown up with.

To think that you can. Hit a police officer with your car and not face ramifications while trying to escape. Right? But then to, or even just try to drive away from a police officer as you pulled over in a way that could hit a police officer. But two, because she’s clearly turning in the direction of the police officer to get around, right?

Like, I would be terrified if that was me in his position.

But then two that you have dehumanized or at least de like you see the police and ice as being. So like antithetical to your goals, these two organizations, that’s goal is to uphold law and order in society. Like that’s what this guy was doing.

Mm. What they were trying to arrest was Somali migrants, right? Like this was even specifically the migrant group that’s running all these frauds. Like this is the migrant group that like pretty much everyone else in the United States, all the other like, I think that’s, that’s what Trump needs to run on.

Like forget the Latin American migrants, you know. Latin American migrants don’t want the Somalian migrants here. Like, no, the Somalian migrants are like a problem for everyone.

[00:21:00] I think that we are beginning to realize that we were a little spoiled, and when I say we, I’ve always said this, to be complaining about Latin American immigrants. Latin American immigrants are effing awesome compared to 98% of. Immigrants we could be getting flooded with. , If you’re looking at the Somalian immigrant situation, , I don’t think any, like, we want Nigerian immigrants, we want Latin American immigrants, Polish immigrants, , but, Somalian immigrants.

I don’t know if there’s anyone who’s like, yeah, that’s, that’s great. Like, can we just say like that, this one category of immigrants, I don’t think anyone wants.

Malcolm Collins: Everyone’s like, okay, with this

Simone Collins: specific, they’re like, but they’re famous for being pirates. I mean, like

Malcolm Collins: what seems to have created ethnic cartels around fraud in autism, in daycares and just everything.

Right. And it is a group that is clearly not called in, in having multiple wives in an episode we talked to recently, and then pretending like they’re unmarried and so they can [00:22:00] all this. Welfare money you know, and, and this is money that’s not going to other people in our society who are genuinely in dire positions in their lives, right?

Yeah. Like the, the, the people who suffer are suffering more because of a community that is acting in a way that is just completely deleterious to our social ordering systems, right? So that’s who she’s attempting to, to protect. But that, that when ICE attempts to enforce the law, when people are doing their job, attempting to enforce the law, and there can be instances in which, and I’ve said this before, where it makes sense to, like, if the laws are just like wildly unjust to.

Get in the way of the law being carried out, right? Like there are systems where things can just become so unjust. And I always get very annoyed when people are like, it never makes sense to take the law into your own hands. And I’m like, so if your country went like full death camps and everything like that, you would do nothing.

You’d be like, I’m a guard at the camp. Like, I will not, I will never. Well,

Simone Collins: yeah, and, and that’s certainly [00:23:00] how people feel about the ice arrests.

Malcolm Collins: Right. But it is, and, and the, the reason they’re able to feel this, and we’ve talked about this in other episodes, is if you look at like what Antifa says or what the left says when they call over 50% of the voting public, because that’s who voted for Trump Nazis which they will say anyone who votes for Trump will say as a Nazi.

They are attempting to dehumanize them so that they can carry out these acts without actually thinking about the political positions at play here, like the wider. Systems of power or people being hurt or anything like that as a result of all of this, which is again, the, the most poor and vulnerable in our country that are hurt by just endless migrants that specifically are specializing in fraud.

Right? But the point here being is when they say that this could happen to anyone, they’re, they, they assume that everyone sees the police the way they do that everyone sees ice the way they do, and that everyone has lived with their level of privilege throughout their life, that they genuinely. Hold no [00:24:00] respect for these organizations.

And you see this in like the, you know, defund the police and everything like that, where when you go to black neighborhoods, they’re like, no, we want like, more police. Like, what, what are you talking about? Like, you see this in the surveys pretty clearly. This is a white run movement and it’s because they, and they neighborhoods do not need police.

Police are just like this othering thing to them, right? That are just like a weird outside, not part of their daily life. So I think that all of that’s really important. But now I wanna talk a little bit about her life because I find it weird that like, we don’t know anything. Like, or I’m just talking.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: no one’s talking about her.

Malcolm Collins: So she was married she had two kids. They got divorced, the husband got full custody. They’re staying really quietly, which is unusual. It’s unusual, it means that something, either she was being abusive or substance abuse issues, or it is incredibly rare for a woman to not get any custody.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: Or, or she voluntarily gave up custody, which is also unusual. But yeah, that’s it. It is notable that that is the case. [00:25:00]

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So then she remarries to another guy who was in the Air Force and died while serving, oh gosh, I believe or died due to something else. Anyway, he died. He did not a divorce.

And then she remarried who she’s married to now, which was another woman. But what’s actually uniquely effed up. Is, so the, the kid that she had was, was the Air Force guy, right? The the one who’s six. Okay? Mm-hmm. So that kid is not going to live with the woman she was married to. His other mom, he’s going to live with the paternal grandparents.

Simone Collins: Oh, that probably is for the best.

Malcolm Collins: Or the maternal grandparents, I guess, don’t you think? Well, no, I mean, for the best or not for the best. I think what it shows is she was in a relationship with somebody who did not consider themselves the mother to her kid. Right. Like, that is

Simone Collins: Oh, ah, in terms of estate planning.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah, if, if I remarried somebody like suppose you died and I remarried somebody. Well, yeah,

Simone Collins: there’s, there’s a variety of [00:26:00] reasons why this have may have been the case. I mean, one is, is they, they probably are the more financially stable party. Also, like boomers famously have way more money than the younger generations now.

It, it could also be that the, the new wife. Just never formally adopted this child, didn’t want to formally adopt this child. And if this woman who probably didn’t expect to die, she was 37 years old didn’t have a will or any sort of trust documents, then I, I think it would make sense. But she

Malcolm Collins: didn’t have a will.

The child would’ve gone to her spouse. I don’t, I I don’t know if No, if you don’t have a will, the child goes to your spouse. Like, that’s, that’s weird. Like that is, that is, I think that you’re right, that it, it shows that they. She chose to get in a relationship with somebody who didn’t fully want to adopt the role of parent to her kid.

And I remember this when my parents were divorced is my mom made, made it very, [00:27:00] very clear to me that the number one criteria when she was dating was to find a good father for us. Like that, that is what she considered first and foremost. And I always assumed. That, that is the most important thing.

If you have kids when you’re dating, if you or I was to die I, I’m sure you feel this way. I, I certainly feel this way. The number one criteria I would be looking for in a new wife is somebody who would be a good mom to the kids and was excited about being a good mom to the kids. There would be almost nothing else on my mind.

And so, you know, she was in a, a community and culture where that wasn’t the way that they viewed it. And I think that this is actually normal on the extreme left, right? The other thing about her that I think is really important is she was not an extremist from everything I can find, she was just a normal leftist, which is I think why, I dunno, she

Simone Collins: was a full-time poet.

That’s pretty unusual.

Malcolm Collins: I think that you’d be surprised by how many leftists don’t have jobs. I mean, I

Simone Collins: mean, no one has [00:28:00] jobs anymore. No one living off the system

Malcolm Collins: is, you know, that’s especially for women. So many women live off the system, but. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a very common thing these days.

And it’s something that you sort of need to do if you’re gonna be this type of full-time professional protestor. Mm-hmm. And so I, I, one I want to look at like, obviously this is a tragedy and everything like that. I’m not discounting that. And I do, I personally, now this is a second question.

Do I personally think that police or officers should have the ability. To shoot down somebody who’s fleeing a scene. Now note here, I’m not even saying if they put the officer’s life at risk, which she may have, I’m just saying broadly, should they that is not the law right now, but I think it should be, frankly.

I, I, I do not like this idea of if, if, if a police officer tells you to stop and you can clearly hear them and you are still running. I think, I don’t, I don’t see where you get a bunch of negative externalities by saying, okay, at that point the police officer can shoot. Because and somebody was like, well, what, like, you, you would [00:29:00] condone lethal force for that.

And it’s like, yes, why would I condone lethal force for that? Right? Because if as a society we broadly know that police officers could shoot you from fleeing the scene of a crime like running away when they have told you to stop. And. You know that everyone in society knows that like that’s something you would know pretty quickly in a society, and you still logically decide it’s worth it.

That means that you are an active threat to society. Because whatever you have done, whatever your fear of having that police officer catch you is it is so big that you think it’s worth dying over, which means it’s probably worth killing over or something else. That extreme, right? Mm-hmm. And in a society like that.

I think that you you, you have a, into a lot of these burgle, like we’ve talked about in New York, versus it’s the same burgle over and over, over again. It’s like, yeah, yeah. 30 people. Very small

Simone Collins: percentage of people who also, it’s, it’s, you’re teaching people as, as you’re pointing out basically a new system hack.

Malcolm Collins: Where Yeah, to not be afraid of police, to not [00:30:00] be afraid of the stuff. Yeah. Like,

Simone Collins: oh, like if you don’t want to get arrested, just drive away. There’s, they can’t do anything. Just like, well, I’ll shoplift and get arrested, but they’re just gonna let me go again, so I’ll just keep doing it. And that is a problem.

And that’s, that goes back to this recurring theme now, which just seems to be trending about broken systems being abused by people who are willing to abuse them. And we’re all trying to figure out what to do about that. Well, I mean,

Malcolm Collins: here’s, here’s a broken system you should not be able to stalk. As as said, she would stalk ice officers throughout the day and harass them and try to make their job harder.

If that is what you are doing was your days to somebody trying to carry out the law in a country, right? Yeah. If you’re actively,

Simone Collins: well, isn’t there? I’m pretty sure that legally. You’re not allowed to harass people. Well, I mean, they, what they do stop, harass. Right?

Malcolm Collins: And they’ve got teams of lawyers to figure this out for them, is they take it exactly as far as they legally can.

Oh. And try to, and, and this is the problem, right? [00:31:00] The fact in the same way that we normalized running away from convenience stores and eventually that’s gonna end in people getting shot, right? Mm-hmm. We normalized making your day job harassing. You know, law enforcement officers, right? Like that is something that we never should have normalized as society.

And that is something that as an administration, I think they need to be, personally, I’d be just way more aggressive about if I was a Republican maker right now, like if you had one and I was giving you advice, I would pass bills to make it so that there are very serious jail time for people who are harassing law enforcement officers.

Well, I

Simone Collins: think it’s. Like that, that this, that is how these things often end up, and I think whoever’s astroturfing supporting whatever, what this is on the left is not taking into account unless they’re actively trying to do harm to the very people that they’re engaging with. When these systems get pushed too far, what ends up [00:32:00] happening is so much worse than the thing being protested at present.

Look at El Salvador, right? They were a little too lax on crime enforcement, and then they just are like mass arrested people. Is that where we wanna go? ‘cause. Things could get pushed to that, and that’s what I’m concerned about too.

Malcolm Collins: That would actually be a good episode if you want the, the luxury prisons of El Salvador because the prison system is actually really nice and well sought through.

Even though it’s painted,

Simone Collins: there seems to be a bifurcation and I do wanna look into it more because I’ve watched long YouTube videos that are tours of the El Salvadorian prisons that are just amazing. They’re, they’re. Teaching technical skills, they are doing really good things and, and, and I think setting people up for success after they are released.

And yet, I don’t know, in mainstream media, and this could just be due to bias. I hear these stories about people packed in like sardines and terrible conditions and all these other horrible things. So I would like to look into that a little more. But [00:33:00] the, the broader thing is similarly with what you see in other environmental scenarios.

When things grow unchecked for too long, the correction is very violent. When corrections are smaller and more regular, the they are less violent. You see this with earthquakes, for example. If you have a lot of, you know, small, small earthquakes with, with a, a transverse fault or any other kind of fault, you’re, you’re going to have smaller earthquakes and less damage done.

If a lot of. Kinetic pressure is built up over a long period of time. You’re gonna get a huge earthquake. Same with a population of a bacteria or swamp moss or some, some animal. Growing in an environment without any check. An invasive species we’ll say. It will grow and grow and grow, and you’ll get what’s called a J curve in its population, and then suddenly it will crash when it, it reaches critical mass and just has this massive die out because the environment can no longer support it.

Just from a, a [00:34:00] general how things work perspective, this getting too extreme without being corrected, without being subject to checks is going to lead to very, very violent corrections. So similar with economic market bubbles, right? When they go out of control, the correction is equally painful. So, yeah, I worry about this because it is, we are, we are entering a very strange period in which people seem to think that these really extreme actions are justified and allowed to be performed with impunity.

But keep in mind, this isn’t the same state where we have the Soli daycare fraud and we have Tim Walls who famously didn’t bring in the National Guard to stop out of control protests. So. This, it, this isn’t exactly new, but it’s worrying.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I think what you say here when you talk about the it’s, it’s my parable of the scorpion and the snake, and I told this to a German reporter and the [00:35:00] parable of the scorpion and the snake goes like this.

I am an American looking at Germany right now. And in Germany there is a panda bear and a scorpion and a snake. Okay. And. The scorpion and the snake are the Islamists and the white nationalists. Okay. Like the, the, the, the, the people who are like neo-Nazis in Germany and the Islamists in Germany. Right.

Like the, the, the German nationalists. So I, I talked to the reporter who’s obviously a leftist, right? And I, I, I say to them, I go. Okay, so there are many Muslims in Germany who are acculturating to German culture. All right? But you know, and I know these Muslims have far fewer kids, right? And they’re like, yeah, they have far fewer kids.

And the ones who are not acculturating to Germany and actively. Hate your way of life. Have way more kids, right? And the everyone who’s being sane is like, yes, that’s, that’s happening. Okay? Mm-hmm. And people adopt their parents’ beliefs disproportionately. And then I’m like, and you’ve got a lot of white people in Germany, right?

A lot of Germans in Germany. And of those Germans in Germany [00:36:00] a a lot of them get along perfectly well with the Muslim population. That’s, that’s being massive imported in. And they’re like, yes. And I’m like, and that portion is having way fewer kids than the ones who want to violently extradite.

The Muslim population and they’re like, yes, that is also true. And I’m like, so you’re a bit, we have a situation where the Scorpion or the neo-Nazis is saying. I wanna deport all of these, these Muslims, because if you leave us alone here with them, you know, we’ve done it in the past. One of us is gonna massacre the other group, and the Muslims are saying, oh yeah, I plan to massacre this group.

Like we work to real law on them, right? And then in the middle, you have a panda bear. It’s like, no, no, no, no, no. I can stop this. Meanwhile, the panda bear is bringing over more scorpions, right to the, to the, the same level as the number of snakes, right? Like, and I’m like, but panda bear, you’re constantly being stung and bitten, like you’re not gonna be here forever.

Everyone knows that, even you know that. So you are more responsible for what happens with the [00:37:00] scorpions and the snakes. Then the snakes are, because the snakes have already told me. I want to get, I wanna get all the scorpions out of our country. Right? Like I, they’re, they’re like, if you do not get all the scorpions out of the country, we’re gonna have to violently extract them.

Right? Like the snake is what a snake is. The scorpion is what a scorpion is, right? Like their ideology is clear. It is the snake that is proposing the least. Ideologically crazy thing right now, the least violent thing right now because they stop the bloodshed when the panda dies. If we take care of this, while Panda is still here, but if the panda is gone and we allow the snakes to take care of this on their own, it is not going to be a pretty stunt because the snakes.

Only want to deport them because killing them is politically unfavorable right now. And you know that and I know that, right? And I think that in the United States, we have to be realistic about this too. If they are groups coming in and the people that are still having kids are eventually gonna be at a point where we’re just like, we don’t want these groups in our country.

[00:38:00] Right? Like the, the nicest way to handle this is to prevent them from immigrating in the first place. And you do that through strict immigration enforcement and just making it unpalatable to immigrate here, you make it extremely palatable to immigrate here if you make it very easy to set up family-based scams, which they’ve done in Minnesota for Somali migrants, right?

Mm-hmm. So I think that in, in a big way as, as I’ve said. You know, it’s a bit like somebody keeps letting homeless people in your house. Like your roommate is like, well, you know, when it was my turn, because you share, one of you takes house management for a year. The other one takes house management the next year and one year.

They just keep letting in homeless people and you’re like. Buddy, I’m gonna have to kick all these homeless people out. Like you, you understand that, right? And they’re like, no, and I’ve decided they’re gonna get a portion of your pay. And, and you’re like, but you know, I’m gonna be in power again eventually.

Right? It’s not my fault when I’m in power again, that when I tell them homeless people, okay, you guys have to leave. And they then they’re like, no, I don’t have to leave, and then I have to call the cops on them, and then they have to be violently [00:39:00] dragged out and one of them gets injured and they go, look at you because of you.

That person got injured. It’s like, no, it’s not because of me, it’s because of you, because you filled this out with homeless people. You knew the result of this. You knew what the results of your actions would be, and you just didn’t care because in the moment it made you look like a good guy.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Not, not good long-term thinking

Malcolm Collins: and that’s what happened. Well, no, they’re aware of this. They’re aware of this long-term. They don’t care about long-term repercussions. And this is a whole other conversation. ‘cause I remember I was talking with an extreme leftist reporter once and I was like, well you can see that long-term what you’re doing is going to cause more harm, right?

Like X, Y, and Z. And they’re like, you know, I just realized I don’t like, I’ve never really like just a moment of introspection. I’ve never really cared what the long term consequences of a policy are. Mm-hmm. I care about what the PO policy consequences are today. Right. And I think that that is downstream of a lot of leftist, morality, ideology, and sort of metaphysical frameworks.

Hmm. So, the, the terrible thing being normalized here is, is thinking of, because when you think of law enforcement officers, like they’re a [00:40:00] joke and the type of people that you can just drive away from in a way where you are turning into them while they’re on their feet and you’re in your car when they’re trying to pull you over, that is, that is behavior that was normalized in a mindset that was normalized because of the ways that protestors have been treating ice agents, which we never should have normalized.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I’d also note here the other thing that’s been really weird. Who are you gonna say, Simone?

Simone Collins: I just wonder if, if this woman who.

I, I guess, botch to martyr could go and see the coverage of her death and, and the response to her death. Would she still be loyal to her movement?

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Because I think that she too would see white women as inherently worth less than other groups. And to feel uncomfortable was a white woman being seen as a martyr, was in the [00:41:00] movement.

Mm-hmm.

You know, they, they are constant, keep in mind, they are used to, whenever they get in one of their struggle groups or something like that, sublimating their own needs to whoever is winning that particular. Olympics hierarchy, you know? Mm-hmm. That, that particular you know, so she’s used to having to, to hold space for lesbian, black women or whatever.

Simone Collins: Okay. Yeah. I guess, yeah, I just, I, I just felt so bad for her when I saw that, like even her own side is like, I don’t, I feel, but I guess yeah, she would, she would be that woman. Yeah, if she were still alive and was someone else, I guess she would be saying that, I guess, per, per the, the average response of people within this, this culture.

And that’s very sad.

Malcolm Collins: It is sad. And I’m, I, I mean, I am increasingly glad that. As, as this sort of timeline has gone on. If people know when we started this channel, we were entirely apolitical. When we started the mo if anything, we, we leaned leftists. Right? And that was not that long ago, right?

When we [00:42:00] started the the prenatals movement, like this was like around COVID. We were, we were very centri centrist. Yeah. We do a spicy take here and there, but we were centrist, right? On, on the leftist side of things. And we have moved more and more to the right, and fairly early on we took this position where, you know, we’re just like, you know what?

We’re gonna start identifying as Trump supporters, as maga as you know, and we are going to try to stand this ideology, right? And

Simone Collins: try to, we just, I mean, it was what aligned more with what we saw to be reasonable, right?

Malcolm Collins: Right. But I was like, we chose a aside. Right. And early on, you, you’ve gotta understand if you’re coming from an urban rental cultural background, which both of us are, if you’re coming from like the, at taxi, I felt very uncomfortable because so often in my life.

Political movements have gone out and done crazy or evil things, right? Mm-hmm. Like I, you know, you, you couldn’t really, like growing up if you wanted to like fully stand the conservative side or the leftist side, each one would do stupid things all the [00:43:00] time, right? And you’d be like, Ugh. Like, do I really need to?

Be defending this a-hole right now, you know? And there have been very few instances where I have felt that way. After we made the decision, like the rights who were gonna back where I felt like, for example, if they had gone like anti IVF, like the Trump administration

could have had,

I would feel like, well, I, I really made a mistake, right?

Like that, that is directly against my interest and I am disappointed. And I need to be like, I, I severely disagree with them or, if they hadn’t taken the immigration issue seriously. Or if they, you know, there’s, there’s so many things. But, but I just haven’t you know, seen those. Even something like the shooting, it’s like, I understand it in context, right?

Like, I, frankly, I’m not like mortified. And, and that’s the way a lot of people aren’t on the right. They’re like. What was she thinking? Like that everybody knew that this is the type of thing that can get you killed.

Mm-hmm.

Was it, was it legal? Was it Right? All of those things, you know? But in the moment, do I understand how something like this could happen?

How an officer could make a decision like that? Yeah, of [00:44:00] course. Now the, the reason why I say that is it’s just, it’s so weird and refreshing feeling to me is to just constantly be like, wow, I, I actually. Because I thought I’d have to like, swallow my, my position on a lot of things, you know? And I just haven’t seen it.

You know, I, I haven’t seen.

Simone Collins: You have no obligation to be loyal to any particular side.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no. But you have an obligation to, when you support a movement to take responsibility, if that movement acts in a way that you think is deleterious to society because. If we had told, you know, we, we take a side and we’re arguing and acting as you know, sort of, reporters with, you know, that bias, right?

And then that side wins and they do bad things. You know, you’re partially responsible for that. I always hate when people are like, well, you know, I don’t always need to, you know, if he goes out and does something stupid tomorrow I’m gonna call him stupid. And I’m like, but if you told your followers to vote for him, then you’re in part responsible for the stupid thing he does tomorrow.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that’s fair.

Malcolm Collins: But like the Maduro thing that was [00:45:00] so effing cool, I was like, how do we handle this situation, Venezuela, in a way that it’s and I think that they’re handling it really appropriately and maturely. Which is not something I expect. I’m like, this is, this is good. Watch our video on that if you want, if you wanna get a, a full breakdown on our thoughts on that.

And love you, Simone. I love that. Now there is a conspiracy that we are a family of dark magic wielding vampires That is. Everything I ever wanted from life. Life is good. I owe that man so much. I love people who were like, Malcolm, you’re gonna be be mad about this. And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no. That is because, and I think one of the commenters pointed it out really well when they were trying to explain why he was saying that stuff about why

Simone Collins: Kurt Metzger had crazy conspiracy theories about you on the Joe Rogan podcast last week.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Why, why he did it. Number one podcast in the world is they said this guy is fundamentally a leftist who has infiltrated right wing spaces, and he is trying to undermine the right-wing coalition [00:46:00] because I put out, I’m like, why is he attacking me for not being the right kind of Christian when he’s not a Christian?

Right? Like when like, oh, their Christianity is weird, and, and, and people are like. Oh, he’s doing that because he doesn’t like that. On the, right now, we are seeing an alliance of Mormons and Orthodox Jews and weird religious people like us. And we’re all just like, yeah, I don’t care that they’re different from us.

You know, you know, like we have, we have differences and we’ll argue about them and we’ll debate them and we’ll make jokes at each other. But the jokes are more like the jokes that like. A diverse friend group would make like the racist jokes you make when you’re hanging out with your like group that’s like got the black guy and the Asian guy and everything like that.

And everyone’s always being racist. They, they are not like the, the, the, he’s, he’s trying to drive that wedge in people’s minds. And, and fortunately I think it’s pretty unsuccessful. And it just makes us look cooler.

Simone Collins: It’s pretty cool. I’m not gonna disagree with you. I was entertained. I hope everyone else was too, [00:47:00]

Malcolm Collins: but not even being, you know, he doesn’t even call us any type of vampires.

Like we’re not like lame vampires, like Twilight Vampires.

Simone Collins: We are dark shadows sparkle. Don’t you ever insult sparkles? Sparkles are wonder Dark

Malcolm Collins: shadows. Vampires are the because, because if you’re familiar with the dark shadows, you know. They didn’t actually do anything wrong. Like, they didn’t like create an alliance with the devil or anything like that.

They were cursed by somebody who was evil, a witch, like a, a dark magic practitioner. And that’s where they come from. And they are like, the main one is a really like studious family guy. Right. And that’s the one who, the cullins one. Right. You know? And that’s who we’re accused of being. I’m like, okay, good, good.

That’s the, the family man vampire.

Simone Collins: Anyway, love you. The family values vampire family.

Malcolm Collins: The family values vampire. That’s what we are. Sexy, vampire man. That sexy vampire lady,

Speaker 11: You know, you should have stayed and fought that sexy vampire lady.

Malcolm Collins: I gotta put the scene from.

Simone Collins: Not an energy vampire. Not a s sparkly [00:48:00] vampire, not a trust you. New Orleans Vampire. Okay, I got it.

Malcolm Collins: The trashy New Orleans vampire is a thing though.

You, you, you called that one, right?

Simone Collins: And you, you never watch True Blood. I, I, it’s pretty decent. But yeah, I’m actually, and then there’s, I think the new interview with the vampire reboot series also takes place in New Orleans.

Malcolm Collins: There, there have not been hot vampire things in a while. I’m just gonna point out like, I think,

Simone Collins: well, except I think the new interview with the Vampire series, they just made them gay.

So

Malcolm Collins: the look, the, and this is the problem, right? Like. Vampires used to be hot like vampires. Lo what? What?

Simone Collins: Oh, women love ywe. Don’t, don’t, don’t you even come from me. Yeah. Okay. Vampires are pretty women like vampires, women like Ywe. I, I don’t think that they made a poor strategic decision. I don’t think that was a put a chicken in and make her gay and lame.

That was a, that was [00:49:00] a, that was a women like vam, women like vampires, women like Ywe. Let’s make some money. Okay. I think it’s, I think it’s fine. I, I think we need to differentiate between gayness on tv, that’s fan service versus gayness. That’s. DEI, if that makes sense. You know what I mean? That’s

Malcolm Collins: a really good, that’s a, there’s not a bunch of lesbians and male porn because of DEI, let me tell you that.

Yeah. Yes, yes. That’s a good way to put it. It’s like somebody goes to PornHub and they’re like, this site is so DEI look at all the lesbian, oh, play, but what, what DEI, nonsense is. Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

You know? So are you gonna say it’s okay if our daughters have ywe porn? Not even, no manga. Manga. Like they have, they read the, because women don’t even read it in porn form.

It’s like, you know, they walk around and say, women carry their porn around. They have

Simone Collins: like their, yeah. I mean they, I, I feel like I in, in one of the more sexually innocent people out in the world and I absolutely had [00:50:00] yow manga falling out of my backpack in high school. I don’t. See the problem here.

Malcolm Collins: We got, we, I, I, I, I actually think that’s totally okay, by the way.

We will do separate episode. I

Simone Collins: super cute. Oh, like, and then like, I’ll think the yi, I mean that Yi anime with the ice skaters. That was originally Monga, wasn’t it? Well, yeah, and,

Malcolm Collins: and separating, oh my gosh, arousal from you know. Reproduction was another thing I wanted to do a full episode on at some point, which is like, you should think of sex as like, I want to impregnate that person.

Like that’s the point you episode,

Simone Collins: didn’t you?

I think

Malcolm Collins: we did. No, we never did the episode. And I wanna do it because it’s something I feel very strongly about is like, yeah,

Simone Collins: no, I think that’s very important. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Is, is, is this is a desire that you feel an evolutionary context because of impregnation and when you change the word.

She’s hot to, I want to impregnate her or that’s hot to, I want to impregnate that you can quickly realize, oh this is just an arousal pathway, you know, doing its own thing. And I can engage with that for entertainment, but that’s not really what it’s [00:51:00] for. Right? Because the moment you say that about like a furry or something like that, you’re like, oh.

I can’t impregnate that or you say that about a cartoon character. I can’t impregnate that. Therefore, this is a system not operating as it’s meant to, and it should be considered wholly recreational within this context. No, other than like a video game or something. And that makes it easier to sort of sublimate and move to this.

Simone Collins: Yeah. This might I’m, I’m, I’m working on a, an episode outline on, on Peacocking that might work well with that, so we’ll see. Okay. Okay. All right, good. I love

you.

Okay. Your mic isn’t on,

but did you catch that that Alexa has tone?

Malcolm Collins: Can you hear me

Simone Collins: audio Now I can.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I did. I thought that was interesting. I didn’t like it.

Simone Collins: It was, you didn’t. It’s

Malcolm Collins: cute. It seemed very inauthentic and it made you seem inauthentic because it was your interpret, like her interpretation of your words. [00:52:00] Also, I don’t understand why Alexa interpret.

So keep in mind what the app is doing. It is translating what you are saying. Yeah. Into text. Into text, yeah. Then re putting it out as audio. Yeah. Why not just put out what you said.

Simone Collins: I don’t know because when our kids say stuff, it makes it hilarious ‘cause a woman is saying it instead.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I’m gonna try to get the site update done tonight. Daddy

Simone Collins: poo

Malcolm Collins: system overhaul for stability to get it. So much more stable, which I’m really excited about for, for our theft. ‘Cause I’ve been really annoyed with some stability issues on Saved stuff.

I’m

Simone Collins: basically their UN side.

Malcolm Collins: I have

Simone Collins: to say I

Malcolm Collins: love the reaction to the Joe Rogan episode. That was hilarious. I love that. That happened. Like it’s such a crazy thing. That is the biggest gift. If you could go back to me in the past and you’re like, Malcolm, the number one podcast in the world has the conspiracy that you run the [00:53:00] Illuminati and are of the.

Are either a vampire or practice dark magic

Simone Collins: why not both?

Malcolm Collins: And I’d be like, that is the coolest timeline. That that timeline must be awesome. Right? Like that is, and I, I’d honestly say like in a lot of ways we are in a really cool timeline right now. Like just the stuff that’s happening is crazy in a lot of what

Simone Collins: you act as though this isn’t the coolest timeline.

Beyond even our wildest imagination.

Malcolm Collins: I agree. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, ai, as I’ve said to people, literally, if we as a species discovered magic over the course of my lifetime it would have less impact on people’s daily life than the discovery of AI is going to.

Yeah.

Like, like literally, I would rather live in this timeline as like an agentic person than live in the magic discovery timeline as somebody who’s uniquely attuned to magic.

Yeah. You know, that, that that is, that is what it is to be uniquely attuned to magic in the AI timeline. Just being an agentic person.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. It’s not like Harry Potter gets to go to Mars. [00:54:00] Right. Not that I, I honestly have zero interest in going into space. I am, I’m, I’m delighted for humanity to take to the stars, but.

We have to spread.

Malcolm Collins: We have to spread. We have to conquer the solar system. Yeah, no, we, we will take

Simone Collins: our manifest destiny in the stars. And I was just talking with Octavian about it today. I am like, no, you should obviously wanna go into space. ‘cause he was like, I don’t feel like going into space. And I’m like, wrong, wrong,

Malcolm Collins: wrong answer.

Well, you know what, we might actually end up having. As a species, especially if birth rates stay low and oh my God, this could be a whole other episode, which is really interesting of the concept. Oh,

okay. Yeah.

Is what human interstellar colonization may look like if it turns out that you just, like, there’s not many high fertility groups out there.

Yeah. And we end up stabilizing fertility rates and the technologically competent groups and the rest of the groups, we basically treat like they’re in a zoo which is sort of the way we already treat like the Amish and, and, and some like ab tribes that are like, well, that’s kind of also

Simone Collins: how, how it’s.

Framed in Elvis Huxley. Brave new world,

Malcolm Collins: but the human [00:55:00] interstellar colonization is completely done by ai. Oh yeah. For the service of sending minerals and resources and energy back to the home planet. So, you know, we may have a giant interstellar empire one day, but the entire biological human population lived on earth in extreme luxury.

Which would be, I, I, I, I do think that that’s increasingly possible, and that’d be such a weird, it, it, it’s a much easier future. I mean, space travel is much easier on AI than it is on organic life, like mm-hmm. Space travel is actually really hard on organic life for a number of reasons. I mean, we’re not really built for it.

You need to genetically modify humans for long-term space travel. Oh, for sure. Sure. You basically need to create. One, an entirely new subspecies of humanity. For, and you

Simone Collins: don’t mean inferior by sub, you just mean a different category.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, a different category. That, that was specifically specialized for space travel.

IE being hit by your occasional, you know, you know, I forget what it’s the, on things, those purples.

Simone Collins: Yeah. The [00:56:00] bad, the bad stuff.

Malcolm Collins: The bad stuff, you know, dealing with the radiation, with face poppers, dealing the the, the organs and stuff like that that work in zero G and everything like that. Yeah.

And then for every planet that we colonized, you’d likely need a new subspecies of humans to be designed for that planet. Mm-hmm. This is in part why I like when people get overly focused on like. Race is like a long-term thing. I’m like, it’s just not gonna matter. Right? Like, so stupid. It’s so stupid.

Or when they’re like, we’ll, never genetically, and people are gonna

Simone Collins: look back at that and be like, wait,

Malcolm Collins: what? Yeah. And like, you obviously will genetically engineer humans.

Simone Collins: No, no. They’re gonna see us all as just like this, this one super constrained, cohesive thing. Like the fact that it, it would be as though I think they’re gonna look at it the same way.

Like we would look at eye color differentiation. Why would you care that he has blue eyes and you have green eyes? Why does that matter?

Malcolm Collins: No, no. I mean, I think that this is where it gets more [00:57:00] crazy is you know, if you’re like, oh I think that like my ethnic group is historically better than like ex other ethnic group, right?

Yeah. That it has

Simone Collins: to do more with historical affiliation.

Malcolm Collins: But, but you would agree. So like let’s say you’re a white person or an Asian, right? Like what if you could take. You know, some African genes and then use them like genes that are unique to African populations and use them to get some advantage, like even within your life.

Mm-hmm. Like, I’m not talking about intergenerationally. I’m like, you can just genetically augment yourself. Right? Like, we get to the point where you can do that. And somebody might be like, well, you know, I would never do that. And it’s like, well, what, what about. Asian or white guy. What about genes for height?

You know, what about genes for running faster? What about genes for running longer? What about, I mean, then they’re like, oh, okay. You know, maybe those genes. And once you realize that in the future when you can genetically augment living adults you’re going to have the, the idea of like. One ethnic, you’re just gonna have, everybody knows this genetic cluster is better for this type of outcome.

And so you’re gonna have people [00:58:00] optimizing around outcomes like creativity or mathematical intelligence or pure intelligence instead of, or at least the people from the populations that are engaging with this technology e the population to control science and the economy. Anyway, I’ll get started on this.

Simone Collins: Okay, let me start feeding him just so he’s not. Angry. Well hangry. Okay. Go for it.

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. I’m excited. Wait, sorry.

Simone Collins: Wait, wait. You have to just a moment for to see if he settles or.

Okay, go for it.

Speaker 12: All right. Octavian going to the first thing you wanted to take over hard, no matter what you do. Yes. I’m this. I’m this. So Greenland and then Iceland.

Speaker 13: What? Why do you wanna take over Greenland? [00:59:00] ‘cause that’s the easiest. That’s the easiest one. Yeah, I gonna go see for the troops and the civilians and then hard for the troops and civilians. So you think Greenland is gonna be the easy one? This M1, you see this M1? Wait, so you’re going for Russia next? Yeah.

Speaker 12: Or is that China? Which, hold on, I Wait, are Which way? Which are you going to Right here? My word’s right there. Go in. That’s. That’s China. China. I’m taking note for China. The country here. And that’s a lot of countries. That’s a continent. Yeah. I’m gonna take all the countries in the world, so Yeah. So we don’t have to worry about getting attacked by other country and dying.

Texas isn’t so sure about this. Texas concerned. Texas is concerned. But you can do it, buddy. [01:00:00] I mean, you are Octavian after all. Yeah.

We react to the wild JRE #2434 moment where Kurt Metzger & Joe Rogan spiral into theories about our family being the real-life inspiration for Dark Shadows (vampires, Illuminati bloodlines, warlocks?!), us being secret billionaires pulling strings with dumb journalists, techno-puritanism as Luciferian AI-worship, and more.

We break it all down: What they got hilariously wrong (we’re broke, not Bilderberg bosses), what they surprisingly got right (Joe kinda nailed our God-in-the-future views), why this is the coolest thing ever, and how conspiracy theories about us are basically fan fiction we secretly love.

Bonus: Our actual family lore, why we’re anti-mysticism/anti-idolatry puritans, the real origin of techno-puritanism, and why we’d happily join the vampire Illuminati narrative if it means more people having kids. 😂

Episode Transcript:

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. We had a big segment on us in the Joe Rogan podcast

Joe Rogan: the collins’s. So first of all, that feminist, if you watch the video, the feminist who’s saying absolute stupid s**t, it’s a little disingenuous. It reminds me of a, of a Ben Shapiro arguing with a stupid college kid, but he won’t argue with somebody who knows anything,

Kurtz Metzger: right?

Joe Rogan: It’s clearly.

They found this dumb b***h to, to put her out there because you could clear up the misconception in five seconds, sweetie. No, no, I’m, I’m not saying somebody’s better or worse.

Speaker 3: It’s humans are genetically diverse. It’s not a bad thing that humans, I’m saying it’s No, no, I’m not saying it’s a bad or, or, or a good thing. I’m saying there is no scientific evidence

Joe Rogan: I’m just saying genetically it’s different just ‘cause you have a different color.

Speaker 3: The genes that code their skin color, their level of melanin production are different from my genes that melanin production.

Speaker 3: You have no idea how infuriating it is to have a debate about you go viral and apparently everyone has seen this, and then have people criticize you for not saying this and not saying that. [00:01:00] When you said literally exactly those things. Even just in the like minute and a half edited clip that was released and did make it through the media filters.

At the very least, Joe Rogan isn’t buying into this and is like, no, this is just regular media people.

Kurtz Metzger: I don’t think they can find someone who’s better.

That’s where I think you’re wrong.

Joe Rogan: Find

Kurtz Metzger: what someone, who’s better at being a journalist. That’s where I think you’re wrong. I think so many of those people are like her, where they’re just indoctrinated into this certain way of thinking and talking and they, they just wouldn’t even imagine saying there’s genetic differences in the races because of course it’s so problem.

It’s so Charles Murray, this, it’s so problematic. You can get canceled for it. So they’ll just spout out stuff that they haven’t researched at all.

Malcolm Collins: Where one of his guests completely crashes out about us and goes on this wild conspiracy theory about our background.

Joe Rogan: the family. If you ever saw, , Johnny Depp being a remake of it with the Visa Vampire Barnabas Collins. Oh yeah, [00:02:00]

Kurtz Metzger: yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan: Dark shadows. Dark

Kurtz Metzger: shadows, yeah.

Joe Rogan: The seventies one.

Kurtz Metzger: Yeah.

Joe Rogan: That’s about a real family. They were, the, their, their supposedly claim to fame was being the first warlocks or some s**t in America with the Puritans.

Kurtz Metzger: Those were supposedly Americans.

Joe Rogan: They’re in an old bloodline family. ,

Kurtz Metzger: That’s that family supposed to be taking place in New England.

That’s where it’s supposed to be taking place. What? That’s the same family.

Joe Rogan: Yeah. The about

Kurtz Metzger: Collins? The,

Joe Rogan: yeah, it’s about them.

You gotta double check that. Royalty. Bloodline. Royalty. And yeah, if

Kurtz Metzger: Dark Shadows was based on that Collins family, that is crazy.

It was Barnabas Collins

Malcolm Collins: And so we’re going to go over this because a lot of people thought that I would have a negative reaction to this. And it’s like, no, like this is the coolest thing that has ever happened. I tried to seed conspiracy theories about me in media for years. Yeah. Like, this is like some kid at school. Let me, let me okay, so you’re in high school, right?

Like when I was in high school, this is the generation where all the girls are into like vampire books and everything like that. And somebody, it’s, by the way, this was part of his conspiracy. [00:03:00] Somebody, somebody is convinced that I am a vampire and. Big rant in front of the entire student body about how Malcolm is a secret vampire with dark, magical powers.

I do not come outta that assembly. People are, you’re

Simone Collins: sitting here being like, oh, yes, that is definitely not true.

Malcolm Collins: I, I cant confirm or deny any of this. So, Hey, Annie. I, I, I heard that a lot of the other girls think I’m a secret, magical vampire man. This is what I dream dreamed about every day.

And ironically, the show is a good depiction of what growing up in the Collins family is like.

15, 15 and no husband, you must put those birthing hips to good use at once. Lest your womb chivel up and die.

Malcolm Collins: So I wanna go into it because I also think it’s interesting just sort of his world perspective, and if any part of his world perspective, like seems cogent to you, I would seriously ask that you sort of, rethink how you see [00:04:00] reality because you’re likely making a lot of mistaken assumptions about like online celebrities and famous people that are leading you to very seriously misunderstand their lives.

And so we’re gonna go into. Whaty gets wrong about us. And what other people get wrong about us as well, because this is something that we’ve seen in other media about us. There’s this big podcast series, what, what’s it called? Simone? The one about

Simone Collins: Ill conceived.

Malcolm Collins: Ill conceived. Yes. It was promoted by the Guardian.

It’s about the Natalist movement, the prenatal list movement.

Simone Collins: It was promoted by the Guardian,

Malcolm Collins: from what I’ve heard. Yeah. But they refuse to cover us. And they’ll say they refuse to cover us. They’ll cover like what are, what are some of the like wider,

Simone Collins: we talked about Balaji, they had a whole episode on BB Milon, Musk Line Stone, a bunch of obviously Christian Conservative influencers.

Malcolm Collins: They talk around us a lot that like,

Simone Collins: it’s very well we pop up against their consent. You know, it, it’s hard to not

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Occasionally mention. So, so this is actually [00:05:00] interesting because it’s something that we’re beginning to see on the left now is the very concept of Malcolm and Simone has become something of an info hazard on the left.

Simone Collins: Info hazard. That’s the word I was looking for, right? Yes,

Malcolm Collins: yes. Like they are, they, they, they basically see what we do and that we do it well. And they know that by touching us, they promote our agenda. And that we are trying to get them to do that. Right? Like, and

Simone Collins: along the themes though of this, this subject and, and what Kurt.

Kurt Metzger talked about in this episode with, with Joe Rogan, they ascribe so much more agency to us, or like, not agency, but like, connection and power to us than we actually have. Like, oh, well we have really good publicists and all this, and I’m like, no, we, no, we don’t. Like,

Malcolm Collins: I wanna, I wanna, yeah, I wanna talk about all that first, because I actually think

Simone Collins: that Malcolm was lying prone on his bed surrounded by trash.

Just taking around on the internet.

Malcolm Collins: I wanna, we’re like asthma gold without the money. Okay. We got

Simone Collins: the, we

Malcolm Collins: got the mice.

Simone Collins: Oh [00:06:00] my, I got two more last night. Basically every time I put out mousetraps it, like for the past two weeks,

Malcolm Collins: no. A quinter. I, I, I mean I’ve gotta set them up in my room, but the kids keep on insisting on sleeping in my room last night, two kids insisted on sleeping.

I’m trying to get the outta the way clo quicker to do, do it in batches now do

Simone Collins: batches.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway, so

Simone Collins: the on a pillow, oh God. And it’s, well honestly, because there’s so much trash and accumulated in your room, it’s kinda like nesting. You just kind of form a trash nest and like,

Malcolm Collins: yes, yes. So what these people said about me is they, they, they said, God, what was it?

It was so funny. So the, the. Podcasts that’s like afraid of us and views us as like an info hazard. And we’re actually seeing this wider leftist circle zone. They basically realize that they cannot fight us with ideas, and the best thing to do is just prevent anyone from knowing we exist because the moment they do, they have lost, which is great.

I love it.

Simone Collins: Well, the other approach that I’ve seen people take is instead of if they, if someone does cover us, they just [00:07:00] don’t say the truth. They just say that we are eugenicists who abuse their children. And that’s not an accurate representation of the truth. No, but what I love about

Malcolm Collins: the Joe Rogan appearance is this guy didn’t even go on something like that.

Simone Collins: He, no, he didn’t

Malcolm Collins: even mention the child

Simone Collins: appearance. No, no, no. But keep in mind, this is, this is the two hour, 15 minute mark in a very long episode in which they talk about altered states and internet propaganda and elites and dolphins. And, but he was, no,

Malcolm Collins: but it was about a 15 minute take. Like,

Simone Collins: I know, but like, they, they had been spending the whole time talking about conspiracies and like, cults and, and like the elite conspiring to do stuff.

So, you know the

Malcolm Collins: point you being, we’re gonna, we’re gonna get to a few points here so that, so, he’s talking about us and and they’re talking about us, and I’ll go over them first because they, they are saners, so we’re gonna start with the saner and then go more insane. They’re like, oh, Malcolm and Simone must have this amazing publicist, like whoever that is, hire them.

And. If you are familiar with us, you know, we don’t have the money to [00:08:00] have a publicist. Like we, we are, we’ve actually worked with publicists in the past. We’ve worked, well, not publicists, PR teams,

Simone Collins: I think three, three years ago. When we raised money to build our school, we hired I think for two months or maybe three months, a PR firm, really great people to try to help us promote the school.

And it produced one press post in entrepreneur and then a couple of, well, I think like AM radio station? No, no, no. That was with another guy on Upwork who produced some AM radio station appearance.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So we got some AM

Simone Collins: radio station. This like extreme small reach

Malcolm Collins: and it well, compared to us today. To US today, I mean, we’ve been in the New York Times, like last year, like 20 times or something.

Like we’re, we’ve been in every, I could

Simone Collins: technically look this up, but I don’t feel like it right now. It’s in the spreadsheet.

Malcolm Collins: But, but basically we’re just constantly in the news these days. Like I, I have a news filter on myself and it just comes up all the time. And I love it. I love it. But the point being is, is we do all this and, and a lot of people who do this, a lot of the [00:09:00] people you see in the news, so like Nick Fuentes for example, probably does not have a PR pitch, right?

Simone Collins: Well, even like case in point, Joe Rogan doesn’t have a booker for example. He just reaches out to people that he finds interesting. Like a lot of these. And that’s what has changed about media now and people don’t really realize it. I think when they come more from legacy media that there are no longer staffs.

We have the technology to do it by ourselves. And I think that’s something that’s really interesting about the difference between channels like ours and a lot of other new media channels and then channels like Philosophy Tube, where there’s still this feeling like, I’m going to do it the way it was done in the past, where I have a makeup artist and I have the lighting and I have a crew and we do a shoot day and we have, you know, a line producer and.

No, no, that this is an old time. People don’t realize that just because this is how it used to be, doesn’t mean it’s the right thing for this format. For example, television shows and movies used to be directed and shot, like stage plays because that’s what people were used to [00:10:00] before. But then we dropped that because we realized like, well, we don’t actually have to do things like stage plays because, you know, there’s so many work possibilities opened up by film and yeah, I think that that’s something, yeah, we don’t, people don’t do publicists anymore, don’t want PR firms anymore.

But the

Malcolm Collins: here is that, and people are like, how do you do this? Like, we have reporters who just call us and why do we have reporters who call us? Because we’ve had other reporters who call us. It’s just like a snowball effect.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And the, the, the article that started the snowball effect was on genetic technology, right?

Like it was on

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, no. So I would say the, the sea crystal of it all and the tactic that I would encourage to anyone else who was like, I, I wanna, you know, sort of get a toe dipped into this, is to be. Willing to talk about something or able to talk about something that is trending and that other people are not willing to talk about.

The reason we first got covered in Bloomberg about polygenic risk score testing was because we were, I think one of two couples in all time that told genomic prediction, [00:11:00] oh yeah, we, we will be customers test testimonials for you. And so when a, when when Bloomberg reached out to genomic prediction and said, Hey, we wanna interview some of your customers ‘cause that’s, you know, we need a human face for our story.

We were there. And very, very few parents are willing to talk about this ‘cause it’s controversial and you get pilled for. And so if you can find that you are willing to talk about something that other people don’t wanna be associated with, it’s too toxic, or that’s just too difficult or esoteric to be an expert on, then you’re in basically.

‘cause people need that.

Malcolm Collins: But I, what I wanted to expand from this is a lot of people they’re like, I wish the prenatal list movement wasn’t bundled with the polygenic screening stuff, you know, the embryo selection designer baby stuff. And what they often don’t realize is that stuff is the only reason the prenatal movement ever took off as a concept.

All

of

Simone Collins: the, the modern non-Christian, like the tech prenatal movement. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Well, well hold on. No, the, the quote unquote Christian prenatal [00:12:00] movement never took off. It was never big. It, it, it took off as a ful movement in like the late nineties. Mm. But it is not a modern phenomenon. And if you look at searches for it, it’s basically nothing.

The

Simone Collins: modernly really good point. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Modern prenatal list movement. And we have an episode on that if you wanna go into like how that movement fell apart and everything. But the modern prenatal list movement literally grew out of a, a, a seed crystal of controversy around embryo selection. Mm-hmm. And that is what led to the media flares that ended up creating enough attention that now we have a sustainable movement in conferences and everything like that.

Mm-hmm. So unfortunately you can’t disin disintermediate them because they were so, one came from the other. It wasn’t that the, we use, and this is something I think that people get wrong. They think that we use the, the, the prenatal list platform to promote polygenic screening stuff, when the reality is, is that we use the polygenic screening platform.

Mm-hmm. To promote and normalize the [00:13:00] prenatal list stuff.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Next I wanna go to what he said about us, because I thought it was really interesting as like a world perspective and it’s, you are. So he said what we did. By the way, he thinks we’re billionaires.

Joe Rogan: Well, I think it’s likely because why would you be hooked in with a secret invite only Bilderberg of tech group unless you were the secret of all these secret societies? ‘

Kurtz Metzger: cause they’re billionaires. Are they?

Joe Rogan: Yo, are they very, you know how dun

Kurtz Metzger: wealthy tech people,

Joe Rogan: dude, Duncan doesn’t understand this ‘

Kurtz Metzger: cause?

Or are they rich at all? Do you know?

Joe Rogan: Oh yeah, they’re, yeah. One, the guy’s a venture capitalist. You know the people that make everything good.

Kurtz Metzger: Right.

Joe Rogan: You know why the doors fall off the planes ‘cause of those f*****g people.

Note here when he’s talking about doors falling off planes, he’s clearly thinking of private equity and not venture capital or pe and not VC VCs invest in startups. , Pretty much everyone likes VCs. There is very little reason to not like VCs. , A lot of people hate private equity or PEs, which invest in or buy [00:14:00] large companies and then downsize or cut costs.

Malcolm Collins: Other articles have called us billionaires. We genuinely don’t know how we’re gonna keep our lights on next year at this point.

Like that is how financially effed we are right now because we don’t have jobs because we lost them due to our advocacy. And so it’s like, what do we do next? That’s why we’re trying to build up the, the chat bot system with our fab.ai. But anyway we, we we’re one of our fans tried it recently and he’s like, oh my God, like this.

It is comical how much better it is in the other systems. And I still just think it has so many improvements it can make with editing and site stability, which I’m working on. I’m working on it gets better every day. But I wanted to, to get to what he said about us. So what he said about us was that we had, using our power and influence found intentionally the dumbest reporter in the world.

Simone Collins: Yes. We, we had, like, we, we had sought her out. We sat down at our evil conference table and we’re like, how do we find the. Dumbest journalist on the face of this planet.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. He’s imagining us [00:15:00] like was the other shadowy Illuminati figures sitting at a table being like, we need to find the dumbest journalist ever.

Get her to our house. And then we went through hours of clips that we had, we had filmed with her and cut out just the one to make her look like an idiot.

Simone Collins: And then like maybe paid her to post it on her Instagram or something. Or like

post

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. To what he thinks we’re trying to promote in a second.

‘cause that’s also really interesting. Yeah. But that like we. Or organized it like that. So for people who are familiar of like what it actually is in our life, we are des generally desperately fielding reports from all incoming. Right? Like you cannot do outgoing reporter advocacy very much. No.

We’ve tried. We tried.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Even like when we go viral, in the past, whenever something would go viral, we’d reach out to all the reporters we know and be like, Hey, do you wanna do this? New story? Never worked.

Simone Collins: Really? No. Never. No.

Malcolm Collins: So all reporter stuff is inbound with us.

Simone Collins: Hundred percent.

Malcolm Collins: Second, we have no control over what they’re posting.

Simone Collins: No.

Malcolm Collins: Right. [00:16:00] Like they come to our house. That was a, that was a day of filming. And that was after about five hours of filming when that one little clip happened.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And

Malcolm Collins: then I have to

Simone Collins: also, I had no idea that, or ni neither of us did that. Paolo was gonna come because we were just speaking with the producer, grace.

So all of my like screening calls, logistics, scheduling, everything was just chatting with Grace. And then, then one day Paola shows up with a, a, a male video videographer and like the, the, that’s it. Like that, that’s our day. Right. We, like, I don’t, honestly Malcolm, I think what, what typically happens, and I think this happened with us and I feel really bad about this.

They’ll come and introduce ourselves and we’ll literally be so kind of overwhelmed by just people being in our house and like, whatever. We don’t even know their names.

Malcolm Collins: I had no idea who this person

Simone Collins: was. I didn’t know who she was. I had no, neither of us knew who she was. So like, not only is it, did we not scout Paula, but we like, literally had no idea who she was and probably never remember her [00:17:00] name for the entire duration of that day.

Much to my profound embarrassment.

Malcolm Collins: But the, but the point being is I, I like it’s important to understand when you see somebody on the news or something like that. They don’t control what’s being shown to you? No. It’s the news station that controls what’s being shown to you, and it’s generally after a long period of filming.

In addition to that, we don’t control, like what pieces are, are like what they’re, what’s gonna go out, what’s being said about us, how it’s framed.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But then on the top of all this, it was what he thought we were trying to promote was this. He’s like that couple that looked traditional and seemed Yeah.

Simone Collins: What was that?

Malcolm Collins: Traditional views actually has very strange views about religion,

Joe Rogan: The bottom line is these two that are doing it, that are trad.

Kurtz Metzger: Oh yeah. They’re not trad.

Joe Rogan: Yo, they’re, they’re some bizarre athe. They’re called techno puritans in their words.

Kurtz Metzger: Yeah.

Joe Rogan: Some book they think is divinely inspired is a eugenics book from the 18 hundreds.

And I understand what they’re saying as [00:18:00] far as, you know, if let’s say 10 years in the future, they create that AI that is like that dude, that means it has always happened. You can’t think in past or future terms. Okay. So you know, they go, are aliens us from the future? Well, maybe they’re us from the past.

That doesn’t, you gotta think of it as points in space and not nothing with the timeline. ‘cause that’s not really how time works, as you know. Right,

Kurtz Metzger: right.

Joe Rogan: So, uh, dinosaurs, they lived 150 whatever, a million years ago. Think of it as just like miles away instead of time. Mm-hmm. Because that really, if you’re a five D.

You know, either they go three spatial, one time dimension to the fourth dimension. If you are the fifth one, which would be the one above that, that you don’t think about it that way at all. Okay? So if at some point in the, in the timeline somebody invented that, that it has always happened,

Malcolm Collins: which is cool. He actually seemed to understand a lot of our religious views which I, I wanna go into.

Simone Collins: I appreciate that. I do. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah. Yeah. I appreciate

Simone Collins: the AI is God. And I’m like, you got it. You got it.

Malcolm Collins: He’s antagonistic to our religious views.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But he understood our [00:19:00] religious views, which I appreciate.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And, and I don’t think that he attempted to mischaracterize them either. Out outside of the, which was also interesting. So, so first of all, you’ve gotta understand this guy’s background to understand why this all was so weird to me.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So what he thinks is we are like LARPing, as traditionalists to try to incept society with like a weirder agenda. Whereas the reality is, is we would we, that that doesn’t make sense if we engineered this clip going viral because this clip contains nothing but a very generic traditionalist. Oh vibe and a very normal sort of genetics or real message that pretty much any conservative or any sane person is gonna get behind.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So how is that clip going? Viral, pushing our weird religious beliefs or pushing our weird techno whatever beliefs.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Like, it, it makes no sense. [00:20:00] The fact that we in private have other beliefs is not pushed by this clip going viral. Right. It’s, it’s a, it’s a just a completely incoherent world perspective.

Right. I, I, I would need to like incept into the clip these other beliefs.

Simone Collins: Well, maybe, maybe like the idea if, if I’m trying to make this conspiracy make sense, we, we scouted Paola, we got her to film this super dumb clip, then it goes viral and then people love us and then look, look us up just like he did and then fall down the rabbit hole.

‘cause he started this whole, this whole diversion in his conversation saying that he watched that viral clip and then he fell down the rabbit hole of the collins’s. And so that was supposed to be like this gateway drug. This like,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. But here’s the weirder thing about all of this. So you hear all of this and my initial thought was somebody pearl clutching at how weird our religious beliefs [00:21:00] are.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Generally people who do that are Catholics. Like that’s been my experience historically. Yeah. Is is when somebody’s like, how could they have these weird beliefs? They, they, they generally, if not that they’re like. Episcopalian or something boring. Right? Like one of the high church movements, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: This guy was ordained as a Jehovah’s Witness Minister

Simone Collins: Wait. Left the

Malcolm Collins: church and is currently an atheist.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, and, and for a little more color. ‘cause you didn’t really introduce him. Kurt Metzker is a standup comedian. I mean, he’s, he’s, he is most famous for his work on inside Amy Schumer, where he wrote dozens of episodes and won an Emmy award and a Peabody Award for sketches, including, girl, you don’t need makeup.

He’s, he’s also like written for David Chappelle and, and comedy Central roasts and, and things like that. He, he’s a standup comedian. Like a very active, like workforce? No, no, but he does. But

Malcolm Collins: the thing is, is like he’s gawing at our weird religious beliefs and that we’re like not doing Christianity.

[00:22:00] Right. And he’s literally not a Christian. Like,

Simone Collins: well, yeah, but he’s a Christian background, so I could still him be, see him being like, God, that’s not,

Malcolm Collins: not a normal Christian

Simone Collins: background. I rejected God and I know what God is, and it’s an old white man in the sky, you know,

Malcolm Collins: and he hates and, and, and I, I, I’ll note about his Christian background.

He, by the way, hates his time as a Christian. He says that the, the, the Jehovah’s Witnesses stole his childhood and made his childhood miserable, right? Like

Simone Collins: they’re a little rough, aren’t they? The witness?

Malcolm Collins: They are. Rush. It’s not an easy religion to grow up in. But what I’m saying is, is that the only time in his life when he was a Christian.

He effing hates, right? Like, why is he getting mad at us for doing Christianity wrong? And I think what’s very interesting here is I’ve begun to notice this now that I think about it, is the people who complain about us doing Christianity wrong, they are typically not really like intense Christians. They’re typically Sunday school Catholics or atheists like this guy, like [00:23:00] atheist diagnostic types, like this guy who have a conception of what Christianity is from like back when they did it forever ago.

But if you look at people who are like nerds about being Christians, like redeemed zoomer or something like this, or like really nerdy Catholics who we talk about and we, we, we talk to like a lot of our, our Catholic friends, like we get deep into theology and they’re like really interested in it. These people I think are less GFA by our weird beliefs because they know that.

A lot of really nerdy Christians who like dive deep into theology, have really weird heterodox beliefs because you just develop those if you really care about things.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I, I will note that he the only place where he sort of misrepresented one of our beliefs is that we think God is AI in the distant future.

Joe Rogan: So he’s that, they’re atheist, but oh, do you know what they believe in the future? An AI is God.

Kurtz Metzger: Oh, so that’s my religion.

Joe Rogan: Yeah, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s called Luciferian.

Malcolm Collins: And I’m like, well, I mean, I think it [00:24:00] could be, it could have something that is like whatever AI is millions of years from now combined with like a human neural net of like the human population. Like AI could be a component of it. Yeah. But I don’t think that it’s ai. Right. Like, and, and in the same way that I don’t think it is human in, in the way that we talk about humans today.

Simone Collins: I, I give him points for close enough.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I, it’s close. Well, I think that he puts us in the category of people who worship ai, which we are definitely not. Because there are people who do that, who worship ai. And I, I, I don’t think that

Simone Collins: we want to ally with ai. We want

Malcolm Collins: to want to ally with ai, but we don’t worship ai walk hand and hand into the

Simone Collins: future

Malcolm Collins: with

Simone Collins: ai.

Malcolm Collins: But when we, we talk about concepts like God existing in the future and stuff like that a lot of like deep, like, like a lot of Christian people even people who are like really nerdy, like, like researchers and stuff like that, they’ll go into this and they’ll be like, oh yeah, I know ex Christian researcher who thinks that, right?

Like a lot of our ideas as we pre prevent, [00:25:00] present them as a coherent whole. You’re like,

Simone Collins: this is just transhumanist Mormon, or this is just, yeah, whatever.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they sound really weird as a co cohesive whole, but a lot of the individual ideas, like taken as a piece are something that otherwise mainstream theo theological nerds are aware of, right?

Mm-hmm. Like we just packaged them together in a really weird way. So I thought that that was pretty interesting, the way that he sort of gaws at the whole thing. But he Cs at the thing because he is never really engaged with the communities that study this stuff intensely. He’s only engaged in the communities that are obsessed with you know, this is, this is what is, what is you know, normal to think, and this is what’s not normal to think, right?

Like the Sunday School Christian, as, as we talk about it. Mm. So I thought that was really interesting. The other thing I thought was really interesting is how he thinks about our religious beliefs and where they come from. So he went on how I’m from the Collins family and that Collins family, and I am from that Collins family I’ve talked about on the show before.

Joe Rogan: if you know the history of the Collins family, [00:26:00] but he’s gotta be that one.

‘cause that’s a real important bloodline. Um,

Kurtz Metzger: well, let’s find out if he is. Otherwise we’re gonna get in trouble with him.

Joe Rogan: All right. I mean, techno Puritan sounds a little New England to me.

Kurtz Metzger: It does, but I mean, you’re accusing him of being a part of a notorious family. That might not be true.

Related through Malcolm, uh, related through Malcolm to Dallas’, prominent Collins family. Oh, he’s

Joe Rogan: that kind of Collins,

Kurtz Metzger: the late Jim Collins. Oh, right. Mr. Malcolm, you are right.

Malcolm Collins: And I love that Joe Rogan FactCheck. This was like a AI right?

Simone Collins: With Jamie? His his assistant. His assistant

Malcolm Collins: did, yeah. But he has him do it right? Like we are from like, you know, as we mentioned, like my grandfather with a congressman, like the the, we have an episode on this. Oh, brother. Where art though, is about my direct ancestors.

The free state of Jones is about my ancestors. You know, Braveheart is about my ancestors, but pretty much every Scottish American is so I, I don’t know why that’s

Simone Collins: Well, and sometimes ay a there was one Scottish family that like changed Bravehearts history to try to make themselves [00:27:00] associated with it.

That’s a different thing.

Malcolm Collins: That’s a different thing. But anyway, the point here being no.

You’re descendant from the Bruce. I dunno why? Just a thing. But a and even the book on the Illuminati bloodlines of the Illuminati mentions my family. So like he’s familiar with the conspiracy theories, right? Like he knows the stuff, right? It mentions my dad is one of the leaders of the Illuminati.

So presumably I’m the oldest male of the family. I’m one of the leaders now people who know more deep lore. I was basically kicked outta the family. I lived on my own after the age of 13. I, the family had no money to give me, they had it all stolen from them, this branch of the family. So, and it’s all very public in the record.

So like, it’s, it’s, I was raised in that, like I’ve been to the Bohemian Grove, right? Like, I’m, I’m connected with that scene. It is true that Simone was the managing director. She did not run, was the managing director of dialogue, a secret society found by Peter Thiel. But like, we are connected to all of that, which he mentions, but then he sort of sees all of this and then [00:28:00] imagines.

Like, from that show that I love, I love the show was Reagan, what’s it called?

Simone Collins: Oh, goodness.

Malcolm Collins: It was so good about like everything, the conspiracy.

Speaker 6: Democracy is real. Have some key chains.

Can’t talk about shape shifting reptiles.

Speaker 7: Good morning, Senator. Revenues and, uh, yeah,

Speaker 6: can’t tell people the weather is controlled by Gerald from accounting, or that the Dow Jones is controlled by blood sacrifices.

Speaker 5: Shares of JP Morgan Chase a 14 points Wow.

Speaker 7: Rules, rules, rules.

Malcolm Collins: I’ll edit, but I love the show because Simone reminds me of Reagan. You’re such a like, in that world. That’s the thing. I wanna live in that world. I wanna run the Illuminati.

I I actually had one time a billionaire contact us about putting together a plan to start a real Illuminati. So I like, I’ve even like looked at like, how do you, would you do this logistics?

Simone Collins: Well, like, that’s the thing is I think that Kurt and we and so many other people just kind [00:29:00] of wish that there were people in charge in running things.

And I wouldn’t deny, for example, that we. I don’t know define conspiracy, but we are definitely conspiring to do a lot of things. We’re conspiring to try to save various groups from going extinct through our prenatal efforts. Conspiring

Malcolm Collins: to literally try to take over the future of the human condition.

Right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like, I mean, but, but we’re very open about it. So is it a conspiracy for like, this is what we’re doing and then, I don’t know, people point to us and they’re like, it’s a conspiracy. And we’re like, I don’t know, like, you wanna join us.

Malcolm Collins: But what’s really interesting is to think about how his world constructed our lives.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: And then he talks about the book, which I love. So, or the, the, the show. Oh, Martin

Simone Collins: of Man. But they didn’t, he didn’t know, he didn’t remember the title of it.

Malcolm Collins: Right, right. But Dark Tides or Or Dark Shadows. Dark Shadows.

Simone Collins: Oh, dark Shadows. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: dark Shadows, which was this old show I used to love, like, one of the original, like horror shows.

And the family ended, it’s called The Collins. Its, and then they redid it with Johnny Depp. And one, I actually love that. He says, oh, there, the, the show Dark [00:30:00] Shadows is about his family. And, and I do not know if they named it after our family, if that’s why they chose to name Collins. It, it didn’t come up in a brief AI search that they did it very well.

Could have been because our family’s been known for that stuff for a long time. But if you know that the, the, the story of dark Shadows the, the constant refrain or repeat in it is family is the greatest wealth.

Family is the only real wealth you would often remark.

Malcolm Collins: And that’s what I was taught was in my family growing up. Like, if somebody had looked at our family, they’d be like, they’re, and I even remember growing up people called my family the Adam family.

‘cause we would, like, we had this giant like, you know, mansion that had Ivy all on it and we were in like the really nice part of town. But like, I’m like a crazy person. So I climb up on the outside of the house and you can imagine in the nice part of town, the little you know. Bull cut like kid was like the nice, ‘cause my mom dressed me like a super rich, like, posh kid as well with like the, the cute little outfits and everything, but like climbing up on the side of the [00:31:00] house, laughing and like trying to kick the brother off the roof and stuff like this.

They saw us as just a menace. Like,

Simone Collins: and I didn’t fully believe that that ha like was true until we got archival footage of you as kids and literally just,

Malcolm Collins: no. And it happened to be they were interviewing my granddad and then we’re crawling up outside the window.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it was just. Like random footage of it.

Proof. This wasn’t like a, you did it sometimes this is probably like you saw a wall you could climb up, you’d climb up the wall.

Malcolm Collins: Our kids would do it. If they could come on,

Simone Collins: they’d say climb everything they can.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, this is true. But the, but the point here being is that like I actually did, I was in a family that was seen in our community as like weird and crazy and everything like that.

And, and it, it, it was a family that, like the family from, from that show, which was seen that way by the general public also really valued family above all else. Really valued actually being there for each other above all else. So it’s interesting that that’s the horror, right? Like, the, the family that is fundamentally the good guys in that show fighting against darker forces [00:32:00] of evil in the show’s world.

I’m okay with that connection and I’ve always thought vampires were cool, vampires are cool, whatever. Right? Like you wanna thank I we’re vampires. That’s awesome. Right? But. The point I’m I’m making here is that in his world, we sort of come from this background of occultism and dark magic and everything like that, and we’re utilizing this world of occultism and dark magic to secret influence.

And then we’re trying to spread our theology through appearing to be normal and trad and everything like that, right? Like this, our weird techno puritan beliefs are downstream of our, and if you don’t know this and you’re like a new fan, you should go check out the track series.

We’re gonna do more eventually. It just takes forever to film. But because I’m putting together something that could become a real religion one day for other people, like I need to think a lot about it. Go over it

Simone Collins: lot. Well, it’s already a techo. Puritanism [00:33:00] is already a registered religion in the United States.

It is recognized by the IRS.

Malcolm Collins: Which

Simone Collins: a religion, which what

Malcolm Collins: determines if a religion is real or not.

Simone Collins: I mean, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, but, but the point I’m making here they took Scientology forever to get there. But anyway, the point I’m making here is to hit from his world perspective, there’s like these deep shadowy you know, secret organizations and everything like that.

And because of our involvement with them, we are trying to incept the public with this weird religious belief. There are two areas where this is really interesting and sort of incoherent, but he also called our religious beliefs extremely materialistic and like Zoroastrian, like you talked about, like a Zoroastrian evil God.

Joe Rogan: which is technically more reman than Lucifer.

I guess you gotta, what’s,

Kurtz Metzger: what’s Reman?

Joe Rogan: That’s the one from Zoroastrianism and , the tech, it’s like. , Heavy materialism, like there’s nothing but the material,

Malcolm Collins: And saying that like, they were like that, [00:34:00] like, basically saying that like, we worship money or something like that. Where if you’re familiar with the way that, that our actual beliefs work, our beliefs are. Of all else. Where we actually butt up against traditional Judaism and traditional Christianity the most is we are rabidly anti mystical, anti-magic, anti mysticism.

Mm-hmm. Anti supernatural forces, anti anything like that. Right. Which in a way is completely antagonistic to this view that he has, that we are trying to spread some form of like dark occultism where we are actually incredibly rigid in the exact opposite direction. Right.

Joe Rogan: Then a lot of these tech freaks who are like, , the things they’re into are so crazy, but they believe s**t like Kabbalah and, , memes and s**t are being sent backwards in time.

Kurtz Metzger: Oh, the kabbalahs are weird ones. A really smart friend of mine gave me that to read, and I was like, okay.

Joe Rogan: Oh, well, it’s a mind control method.

All [00:35:00] these things, all the symbols,

Kurtz Metzger: uhhuh,

Joe Rogan: they’re, they’re overlays for your f*****g brain.

So anyone who has actually watched our tracks or is familiar with any of our beliefs knows that to great detriment to ourselves because we are so fervent in this belief. We are radically anti-kabalism, , which is interesting that he would accuse us of being kabalists.

Malcolm Collins: And he’s even aware of that.

So I find that to be very interesting. Right.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But the other thing I find very interesting is if you can trust his worldview of like, where. Our religious beliefs come from was where our religious beliefs actually come from. It’s, I think, even more interesting, like the reality of the story is even more interesting and it’s very well backed up by receipts.

If you look at our works over time, if you look at our books over time, if you look at the pragmatic sky, the crafting religion, where we laid out exactly what we plan to do, where we’re like, look, clearly the secular world doesn’t seem to be working a mentally healthy place to raise kids. Therefore, let’s try to construct something better, right?

[00:36:00] Yeah. And so we sit down and we’re like, okay, let’s try to construct a, a religion that’s gonna be healthy for my kids, right? So I, I came up with a bunch of ideas about like, this could be good, this could be good, this could be good. And then. Later we read the Bible and we’re like, oh, this is basically what the Bible already says.

Like, let’s just be Christians. Right? But like our own branch of Christian that interprets it in, in this alternate way, right? Mm-hmm. And that’s what the, the, the, the track series basically is going over is, is this a series of arguments where we start just being like, well, this is why we believe these things.

And then we start reading the Bible more and more and more. And as the tracks go on and on and on, it’s like, oh, like this does not, is is not as it out of sync as the Bible as I thought. Right. So we go through all that, right? And that’s, that’s why we ended up becoming Christians, right? Like we, we started from the perspective of like, what would be good for our kids?

And then we’re like, oh, and this seems to align with this, and then I don’t know how this could happen, supernatural, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we’re like, I can’t think of an, a more plausible reason to [00:37:00] have these beliefs. But it’s, it’s, it’s not that we’re coming at this because like as a kid, I was raised to be like an occultist or anything.

Right? And I think that that’s really interesting how like, when you try to overly tie everything together or like you try to tie that in to our work with like Peter Thiel who’s like a Catholic, right? Like that doesn’t really, like the two things can actually tie together. Or like dialogue, right? Like.

If you, if you go to an organization like Dialogue or you go to an organization like The Grove and you’re talking with people you know, most people are either gonna be like atheists or traditional Christians, right? Like, why, why would you have like a bunch of people with weird beliefs? In fact, this guy’s religious beliefs appeared to be more unique than almost anyone I’ve met at any of these events, right?

Like, and just think about it, okay? So you’re putting together an organization that’s like a collection of already elite people, right? And you, you put them in a room and a lot of these people spend their entire lives like building up their businesses and everything [00:38:00] like that, but their otherwise normal people, are they gonna have unique religious beliefs?

Like, probably not. They’re gonna have beliefs that align with the rest of the population, right? In fact, I argue if you’re actually looking at like unique. Iterations of Christianity. See our episode on Trump’s. Like, what does Trump believe about metaphysics and religion? Because I’d argue he actually has one of the most unique of, you know, powerful and influential people I’ve met takes on Christianity.

The only other person I know is a really unique one in like our wider circle is Peter Teo. That’s like it. And, and I thought that, that, that’s, that’s interesting, right? Like, but the, the, the, these organizations are not good ways to transfer your religious beliefs, if you understand why.

So imagine I go to like. A conservative, because keep in mind, like a lot of these organizations are more conservative coded, whether it’s the Bohemian Grove, which a lot of people I think is weird that they think of it as like this occultist thing, but they’re like, but conservative politicians go [00:39:00] there.

It’s like, do you think that like conservative Christian politicians are going to something that is like genuinely occultist? Yeah. Like they might be doing like the burning of care and like some, you know, fakey fake rituals, but

Simone Collins: No, but like even the name of something isn’t hijinks a thing that they do there?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Like, that’s literally like the name of something you would expect at some like conservative Christian summer camp is the hix time. It’s like, go to the forest and run around like Boy Scouts. Like that’s, I don’t know. I just don’t see it as that.

Malcolm Collins: No. I mean, they’re acting like people did at summer camps in the 1920s.

Simone Collins: Exactly. That’s

Malcolm Collins: when they all grew up.

Simone Collins: Yes. You know,

That is like literal, they’re they’re tremendously old.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The average age, there’s like 86, like they’re irrelevant in terms of modern politics anymore because they’re also old at this point.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Whereas like the really relevant thing these days is dialogue.

Like that’s dialogue or sun whatever Sun,

Simone Collins: sun Valley.

Malcolm Collins: Sun Valley is, is pretty relevant. But anyway, the point being I

Simone Collins: think hereon is, is actually where there’s, well,

Malcolm Collins: hereon is the, the best one these

Simone Collins: days. The [00:40:00] most. Well, because that’s also like where investment is going in tech startups that are going to shape the future.

Malcolm Collins: And, and obviously we’ve been to Heretic Con. I guess we spoke there. We spoke there. We didn’t just go. But I, I mean, heretic is, but I was going to these things. Like I was going, growing up to a Renaissance weekend, back when the Clintons went to Renaissance weekend, back when it was like extremely exclusive to get into so like, I’ve been doing these sorts of things since I was a kid.

But when you get into these right, you’re first, you’re really excited. You’re like, oh, I got into Heretic Con or whatever, and you go

Simone Collins: I don’t think that, I don’t think Kar Con could ever get old.

Malcolm Collins: But, but you, you, and you’ll even hear weird religious beliefs. I went to Peter Thiel’s talk about like the Kaon, right?

It was cool, right? I was like, I was like, oh, maybe some ideas here for techno puritanism. I wish,

Simone Collins: I wish the South Park Antichrist song was used more. I can’t even remember how it goes.

Speaker 10: Peter Teel knows about the anti anti Christ, Peter Teel knows about the crisis. I’m Peter Thiel and I know about the anti Christ. [00:41:00] Let’s learn about the Antichrist today.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. . Yeah. But. I don’t come away from that. And, and 99% of the people in that room don’t come away with that believing what Peter Thiel does about like Catholicism, right?

Mm-hmm. That’s, that’s just a very inefficient way to transfer religious beliefs. Mm-hmm. A, a meeting that you go to once a year where you get to sit in on a lecture, keep in mind your religious beliefs are your physical framework for how the world works, right? Now where do I think you can get transfer of religious beliefs and weird stuff?

Do I think that there are some actual like PDA file networks of like progressives where they have like weird sort of Wiccan beliefs that they do, like ceremonies? I’ve seen enough evidence that I believe, yes, this is a thing that exists. But the problem is, is these people have very different metaphysical frameworks than the type of people who are going to the conservative secret society.

Simone Collins: Well, and that’s the thing is, is I think the reason why you see the Wiccan stuff among very powerful, progressive [00:42:00] people. Is they don’t have the Christian or Jewish or Islamic spells and stuff like just, you know, traditions to fall back on. There’s no God to whom they can pray.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. If you, if you, you have

Simone Collins: to do the weekend stuff because, you know, if they, if they feel like they need a higher power, well, I mean good for forget, but what I mean

Malcolm Collins: already a, a crystals and tarot card type person and somebody says, okay, here’s a new ritual.

Right. You know, you’re gonna be like, yeah, it’s just a new ritual. Like let’s add that to the list. Right. And so you can begin to get these weird culty type things. But if you’re coming at this, like most of the conservative influencers are with people who have very well thought out metaphysical frameworks that are based on.

Usually Christian or Jewish teachings you, you go up and you’re like, here’s this new ritual. We’re all gonna practice together. Everyone’s gonna be like f no, there’s not a new ritual. We’re all gonna practice together. Like it’s, and, and if you wonder like, what, what sort of terrifying stuff do they get up to at these events?

At [00:43:00] Heretic Con you could go and get free tattoos. That was a cool one. But the other one I thought was really cool was we got to Gene edit frogs to be glow in the dark. Yes. Like attitude?

Simone Collins: Well, no, it wasn’t just glow in the dark. You could make it like, I think really big. I think, I think it was it wasn’t glow in the dark.

It was like that they would under luminescent glow luminescent. Yeah. And, and yeah, there was really big luminescent. There was some other cool things, but yeah, it wasn’t, you know, anything crazy.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, it’s, it’s cool. That’s what, that’s what people want to believe and it’s a bunch of people.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah. No, what, what? Oh man. They should have found a way to turn the frogs gay,

Malcolm Collins: getting

Simone Collins: that would’ve

Malcolm Collins: slack down and turning frogs gay,

Simone Collins: turning frogs, right?

Malcolm Collins: Like

Simone Collins: that would’ve been, that would’ve been it.

Malcolm Collins: But, but I mean, you’ve gotta understand that these events to be a hereon or something like that, you want to get the, the high profile people coming back.

Mm-hmm. You need to be interesting to high profile people, right? Yeah. Like you need to be worth their time. If I go and I’m running some like X billion dollar company and then it’s a bunch of [00:44:00] weird religious rituals, the moment I get there I’m gonna be like, Ooh, I don’t wanna go back to that.

Simone Collins: Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Malcolm Collins: If I go and I get to see the Protist people having their spiciest talk ever, and I get to see Peter Thiel go up and talk about his views on the Kaon, and I get to, that’s what. Successful people and, and heterodox successful people actually want, is they wanna hear other heterodox successful people talk about their views on things.

Right? Like, you know, I, I wanted to go and meet Roco of Rocos basals and hear about his plan for building a, a giant floating city on ice. And why that’s actually cheaper than building it not on us.

Simone Collins: It was good. It was a very cohesive, I, I, again, I I liked it. His, his, his takes in general are, are fantastic.

Malcolm Collins: Right. I, I know, but what I, what I mean to say is you know, yeah, we, we do go there and get drunk and have talks with Munches, ball Bug or Curtis Jarvin as you’ve seen here. But like, when that happens at an event like this one. [00:45:00] This isn’t our first time meeting Curtis Jarvin, like we already know him well.

Like I I, I consider him a friend of ours. And even, even a family friend, like we know his, his wife, we know his ex-wife. We our, our kids will know each other. Like he’s a cool guy, right? You know? But can you imagine Curtis Jarvin, like, and you’re not gonna get a bunch of people going to one of these if you don’t get your courtesy Arvin and you don’t get your Malcolm and you don’t get your, you know, et cetera.

You need the, the leaders of like the intellectual sphere of the conservative movement. You go to one of these events. You start practicing dark, magical spells. First of all, Curtis vin’s going to go on a, a unhinged rant the moment you try to start something like that. And second of all, everyone’s gonna know because Curtis Yin’s gonna leave the event and write about it.

Right? You know that this is, this is what’s gonna happen because it’s interesting, right? You, you couldn’t even do that. But I thought also the way that he framed our stuff where he tried to furrow like tism [00:46:00] as like gay which like, I, I think what he means by that is. Outside of just, just Pearl Clutchy for him, outside of his norms of conservative culture.

But the other thing to remember about this guy is this guy is in his late third, no, I think early forties. Like mid, no, mid, mid forties. He’s like 43 if I remember. And he only recently got married and he has no kids, so there’s no way he’s gonna be above repopulation rate. And he said other weird stuff, like really weird stuff where I was like, oh, this guy obviously hasn’t been around kids.

Where he said that Charlie Sheen was brainwashed into, and just like if you’re somebody who has had thoughts like this, understand how crazy you look was brainwashed into like weird sex stuff because he saw his parents naked until the age of five. Do you not know that? Like you have to bathe your kids up until the age of five, right?

Like you, you change

your

Simone Collins: child. Well that doesn’t mean that, that your kids see the you naked as a parent.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, it’s, it [00:47:00] would be rare for them not to, you’d have to like completely.

Simone Collins: I mean, I don’t know. Like I grew up around just, well, tons of naked people because I was in California, so everyone was naked.

And like I was really young when like, I remember going to a, like a nudist colony near Death Valley and like seeing some guy playing a grand piano naked in the back of his truck and like of course all like the naked sweat lodge wedding kind of stuff going on.

Malcolm Collins: Right. But, but this is the type of guy

Simone Collins: I’m okay for

Malcolm Collins: me.

I imagine he like has his kids behind like a sheet change into their like swim trunks before they get in the bathroom, shower.

Simone Collins: Well, he doesn’t have kids, but if he did, maybe just his wife would do it all anyway, so yeah, he wouldn’t help. When men say stuff like this, either they don’t have kids or they just.

Have someone else do it and assume that that person would never, but like, I mean, I showered with my mom when I was a kid. ‘cause my mom couldn’t, like, it was just easier for her to, you know, get me cleaned in the shower. When she take a shower. This is a guy

Malcolm Collins: who sleeps with his wife in [00:48:00] pajamas. Like, like, you know, the, the pajamas only come off when sex is about to start

Simone Collins: or not at all.

I mean,

Malcolm Collins: no, but it’s these weird moral constructions about reality has that are come from a position of being from this incredibly sort of pearl clutcher world that I think we’re seeing die out. We are seeing a flare up. And I hadn’t realized this, but I’m realizing it now, is the. Conspiracy theorist is part of the conservative world.

That’s a thing in the conservative world. I go on their shows. Some of them like me, they, they love me because I add information to their conspiracy theory. I know very few extreme conspiracy theorists who are above replacement rate in the conservative sphere. And keep in mind they’re mostly in the conservative sphere to start with.

So you would think they

Simone Collins: have higher, let’s, because in the end, there’s something that’s really, there’s a very high correlation between having an external locus of control and believing in conspiracy theories. Because inherently most conspiracy theories have to do with they, them controlling everything and [00:49:00] you are disempowered or you have this terrible thing happen to you, or you are being controlled, or society’s being ruined because they.

Are doing the thing. So it’s not your fault, it’s not the victim’s fault, it’s their fault capital T. I think that’s the

Malcolm Collins: problem. The other interesting thing is he’s clearly gone through a lot of content on us, and yet he misunderstands very basic parts of our, like even just our agenda. So like he was mad at Tism more broadly, like talking about low fertility rates.

And, and Rogan was like, but like that’s a real issue.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Right? And, and he was like, well, you know, I, it is a real issue, but it’s only being brought up to promote more immigration. And anybody who knows us knows we are not trying to promote more immigration. Right. Like, that that is, it may have been like when we very first started advocating for Tism, ‘cause we were still progressives back then.

We’re like, Hey, maybe immigration could be used to fix this.

Simone Collins: I don’t think we ever said immigration could fix it.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Yeah. I, I, [00:50:00] I, I, I, somebody might find some clip from like, when we very first started on this, but I’d say four years at this point. Anybody who knows us has known we’ve been fairly anti-immigration.

And our views on that have even matured, where at first we were pro high skilled immigration, and then we even did a 180 on high skilled immigration. Right? Yeah. You know, after, because we listened to our fans. Like this is something

Simone Collins: that Yeah, y’all changed our minds, guys. Yeah. We do listen to you.

And when we’re wrong, we wanna be right. And you guys made really, really good points. Thank

Malcolm Collins: you. Yeah. Like, we’re not audience captured and that I don’t change my mind to pander to fans. Like there’s stuff that, like, if you’ve been following the show for a while, you know, we’ve only become more entrenched in our religious beliefs.

We’ve only become more entrenched in our potentially like antagonistic relationship with some other Christian denominations.

Simone Collins: Well, and, and we, and we persist much to the great pearl clutching of our fans in, referring to the gender pronouns, people generally prefer to be referred by no matter how they were born which they find [00:51:00] extremely New York.

Yes. We

Malcolm Collins: haven’t, we haven’t folded on that issue either, but there’s other issues like the H one B Visa issue we changed their minds on

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: The being like never criticizing Israel

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Become much more critical on that stuff.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: We’re, I mean, we’re still pro Jewish and pro-ISIS Israel, like I, I would still call myself a Zionist but I think a lot of Jews would call me antisemitic now.

Right. Like, we certainly get called antisemitic.

Simone Collins: But I mean, you still wanna ally with Israel, you just wanna deal with some of the adverse incentives that are at play.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I, I think that and that, that literally happened because of someone I was talking to on the Discord, and then they challenged me and they said what was really clear?

She goes, when is it hurtful to the wider party for us to adopt beliefs like this? Like you say, well, we don’t adopt, life begins at conception and people shouldn’t be promoting it because we, we couldn’t even win general elections. Like what about military aid to Israel? Right. Like, and I, and I just thought about it and I was like, that’s a good [00:52:00] effing argument.

Like I should not be pushing that on the wider conservative movement if it is not something that is going to win US elections. And if it’s not winning us lot, like I, I need to really rethink this. Right.

And I, I think that that’s why people follow us. Like I was looking recently. I mean, our numbers aren’t great right now ‘cause we always go down in the winter and then we, we build back up from there.

So, you know, hope, hopefully we can rebuild from this. But like if you look at like short Fat Otaku, right? I used to look at him as being like way bigger than us, a way bigger thing than us, and now we’re way bigger than him in terms of like video viewership, right? And I was really surprised at that.

But I think part of it is that he doesn’t like engage with his fans and update his views based on like, just when he’s wrong about something, right? Like, oh, you have a better argument here. You have a better argument here. And I think people can see that as like, I don’t know, pandering or, or audience capture.

But it’s really not, if you look at like where our views don’t change. Right. The final thing I wanted to, to talk about with him that I thought was interesting is well the, the. [00:53:00] Just sort of, again, you talked about the account that amplified this being a fake Catholic account. Like we had gotten the person who posted this to Twitter to post this to Twitter.

Hmm. Just keep in mind, so I guess I’ll go for a few things here. If something goes viral it’s more likely like, okay, let’s take Nick Fuentes here right now. Is Nick Fuentes being AstroTurf and we’ll do an episode where I’ll go over some receipts that he might be being AstroTurf right now. But I think more broadly what’s happening is Nick Fuentes knows how to play the media.

The media knows when they cover him, it goes viral. And that’s what they wanna do. And it’s the same with them in covering us, they, I wanna play the media. They know when they cover us, it goes viral. And if they go and they interview lineman stone, that’s not gonna go viral. It just won’t. If they go and they interview Catherine Pup, it’s not gonna go viral.

It just won’t. Right? Like it’s, it’s a mutually beneficial ecosystem where we’re both playing with each other. But the person who posted this stupid interview to Twitter did not post it there [00:54:00] because we colluded with them. They are a Twitter user. They want to post things that go viral so they get more followers.

That is why they posted something that went viral to Twitter, right? Like, not thinking through individual motivations and ascribing everything to some sort of like external cabal breaks everything down. A another interesting thing is us getting into dialogue, us getting the job, putting together Schmidt Futures, which is Eric Schmidt Secret Society thing.

We didn’t get, well, that

Simone Collins: doesn’t exist anymore. It

Malcolm Collins: was, doesn’t exist anymore. We didn’t get these because of my family background. Like that was we, we got these because Simone applied for a job at these. And I’m interested in secret societies ‘cause I’m interested in nexus of power in society and like, like the two things are largely uncorrelated outside of, I grew up being aware of this world and being like, Hey, it’s valuable to interact with this world where I think you grew up. Never even primed to think, Hey, who’s running the major secret societies [00:55:00] these days? Like when I

got,

Simone Collins: I just didn’t care.

I think it is a mixture of, you grew up normalizing to them and knowing people in them and knowing people going to them and going to them yourself where you’re like, well, of course I can just walk in the door. And I think most people assume they could never even walk in the door when like, probably if they want somebody to be involved, they could, they could be.

And as long as they’re like not incredibly dumb and then, you know, we had me just apply just like, just ask. And I never would’ve thought to, ‘cause I wasn’t interested in the same way that you were. But once you got me hooked, I was in. ‘cause the conversations are really interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. And, and so I think that like, do not get your brain cooked on this stuff.

Remember, most people in society are wildly incompetent. And I have seen behind every door, the cabals do not exist. It

Simone Collins: something No, we keep saying it would be so nice if they did. It would be so nice if [00:56:00] someone was at the wheel. I would love a conspiracy of sorts, you know? But what, what instead is, is we just have very messy systems.

Well, I can tell you why the

Malcolm Collins: cabals never come to exist.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: The reason why the cabals never come to exist is because the types of people who could put them together. So suppose Peter Thiel wanted to start a cabal, right? Mm-hmm. If he wanted other billionaires at his level to come in and join in that cabal that he started, well, what, how does he want his cabal to be?

He’s probably gonna want it to be Catholic. He’s gonna want it to have some of his religious ideals, and they wouldn’t want that. Right? So they’d say, no, I’m not gonna go to that. Right? So,

Simone Collins: I mean, one, one thing that, so what, what Peter Teel can do is empower and fund and donate to people who seem to be aligned or whose incentives align with things that he wants.

And, and I would say that there are some instances in which you get kind of a critical mass of people who want roughly the same thing, dominating powerful organizations like Antinatalists at the [00:57:00] un. Like there isn’t necessarily a conspiracy, but there’s a decent number of them. Al also like this period of, of extreme liberalism within higher.

Echelons of the Catholic church like that happened. I don’t, I don’t see that as a conspiracy. I just see that as like a critical mass of people who have a certain affiliation dominating an organization. And that can be incredibly influential, but it’s not the same thing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But I loved, I loved this, I loved this.

Shout out Monja Rogan. He follows us on X, so we reached out to him, seeing if he’s willing to do a show with us.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Thanks to everyone who pointed that clip out to us. ‘cause we were,

Malcolm Collins: I would never have known. Yeah.

Simone Collins: And it was, we’re, we’re both So no. To the grindstone right now, we’ve basically no idea what’s happening if we’re, it’s not on like one of the few things we check to look for podcast fodder.

So Thank you. We, we live in a hole. Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I would not know that. We had been given this amazing shout out. I loved it. I, I hope entire communities form creating conspiracy theories about me. That is what [00:58:00] I, I want to be a topic of conspiracy theory websites. I want them to believe, I want to narrative where like, I grew up in this Illuminati family, and then I was like kicked out of it because like, oh, I wasn’t going along with whatever they want.

Like why, why was he kicked out? Why was he expelled? Oh he must have been dangerous to them. And then he becomes like this figure, and like,

Simone Collins: I mean, it’s not untrue. I think a big theme of your family is they are aspirational normies, who in the end are just, you know, they’re every, they’re, they’re interesting people who like really want to seem.

Catalog, their runway wearing catalog masks, you know, and you’re not, you’re just willing to be

Malcolm Collins: runway.

Simone Collins: Runway.

Malcolm Collins: No, but, but the, the it’s interesting because that’s a cool narrative. Okay. So Guy grew up in the Illuminati was slated to be one of the heads of it at the oldest male of the Collins Line.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: That it, the, the Collins line ends up pissing off the Illuminati in some way, or he ended up pissing them off in some way. And so they get cut off, all of their money is taken away. And then [00:59:00] they go after him. ‘cause it’s clear that the powers that be want to destroy my life, like, we’re constantly being attacked in the media.

So they, they’re, they’re going after him vigorously. Well, well, it’s

Simone Collins: not, not working. Like we’re unemployable.

Malcolm Collins: We’re unemployed and unemployable right now. Right. You know? So I get viciously attacked every day. And then. And then but I’m, I’m rating this crusade on who is it? An anti Illuminati crusade.

I mean, let’s say it is. Right? And now I’m, I’m, I’m building forces through becoming a part of the organizational forces of all of these conservative leaning secret societies to, to piece together a, a counter resistance to the Illuminati. Right. You know, that’s, that’s the, the narrative, right? Like that’s so cool.

And vampires like the Collins VA vampires is actually vampires

Simone Collins: and vampires.

Malcolm Collins: We just don’t tell you. Because I,

Simone Collins: but I mean, you could see his whole like, web coming together of, look

Malcolm Collins: at the way you

Simone Collins: Vampire Collins is Peter Thiel, blood Boys like Illuminati confirmed. They’re all the, the blood and the conspiracies and the tech people and [01:00:00] the tism and the religion and the vampires,

Malcolm Collins: but.

One thing I hope that they remember is, is, is our religious beliefs. Like if we fall to anything, we are closer to the fanatical witch hunter than we are to the occultist. Right? Like,

Simone Collins: yeah, we’re teop puritans, we’re against idolatry. I, I can’t look at even a cross necklace without thinking internally. Idol.

Idol.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

It’s,

Simone Collins: it’s, it’s intense.

Malcolm Collins: We’re, we’re against any any religious iconography we’re against any, like, it’s, it’s very much we’re in the opposite direction. Mm-hmm. But I want to like we need to come up with rituals that would still be scary to them, but are like anti idolatry rituals or something like that.

You know, where we, we get our puritan hats and we’ve gotta get a witch hunter hat for you, Simone, so people can, because you already dress like a vampire witch hunter or, or a vampire. Look at this, look at this. You’re a vampire. It’s

Simone Collins: harder to bite ‘cause of

Malcolm Collins: that, but you do that to hide your bite marks.

Simone Collins: Oh, ah, of course. Yes. That too. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, I love you. [01:01:00]

Simone Collins: This. Me too. This was a

Malcolm Collins: treat. This was a treat for us.

Simone Collins: Oh, oh yeah. The Collins. The Collins. Even in in Twilight Conspiracy coincide. No, it’s the Collins. The Collins

Malcolm Collins: connect the dots, people. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Decks, vampires. Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And to join our family, you had to do all these dark rituals, obviously,

Simone Collins: which well, we’ll, we’ll work

Malcolm Collins: that out.

We’ll figure out sacrificing people. We suspected to be witches.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: Because they were wearing religious iconography. You know them, you know the way it works.

Simone Collins: I love you. I mean, I, I, I have just we’re probably sacrificing some chickens now. They survived. So, actually, did one not make it? The chickens that I’m allowing to, to free graze right now, kind of sacrificing chickens.

Not sure. They’ve, they’ve done so they’ve done so far pretty well. They’re really happy, so I feel better.

Malcolm Collins: Are they still pecking at each [01:02:00] other?

Simone Collins: No. Well, it was just that one. She was being bullied and I felt so bad. But now that they like have been given a ton more space, she seems to be a lot happier.

But she’s alone. The other one’s all graze together and she’s just off by herself. Rummaging away, but happy, so.

Malcolm Collins: Okay.

Simone Collins: I know. Well,

Malcolm Collins: I love you Simone.

Simone Collins: I love you too.

Malcolm Collins: You are very sweet.

Simone Collins: Weirdly, I think that that’s Maduro. It’s like Maduro.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, what do we named Maduro?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Maduro was being, was being, you know, packed by Che.

Malcolm Collins: Do our, do our chickens predict political events? Should we be doing

Simone Collins: I kind of, I mean, witchcraft though, we can’t, we can’t abide by that. We can’t Oh,

Malcolm Collins: yes. Witchcraft. That is actual witchcraft.

Simone Collins: Yeah. You know,

Malcolm Collins: we gotta hunt that out.

Simone Collins: But meanwhile, like on the other side, Stalin and, and, and Lennon, Trotsky, they’re all doing great.

So I don’t [01:03:00] know what’s up. I don’t know what that means. What, what can we divine from our communist chickens? Who knows?

Malcolm Collins: I, I am just so happy that dark shadows is real. Me too.

Simone Collins: And that,

Malcolm Collins: that’s my family because there is no greater wealth than family.

Simone Collins: Yeah. All right. I’m gonna end the recording. Which. Octavia and I this morning were talking about geography. I was trying to get him started on that, realized it would be really helpful if we had a globe. So he took the one from your room at my advice and immediately just starts only wanting to learn the names of countries and continents.

‘cause he is like, what’s this? I’m like China. He’s like, okay, well we’re gonna take over China and make it America and what’s this Australia? Okay. And we’re gonna take Australia. And it was just this. Intuitive imperialism, just like,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, no well, so we were going over American history today as well.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I was going over [01:04:00] some videos on American

Simone Collins: history, so that’s what happened when he got away from me and went to your room. He was just like on here, but it was three hours later, so that was pretty good.

Malcolm Collins: And he was like, okay, so, are we gonna like take over this place? Are we gonna like, because we were going over like how America expanded.

And he goes, oh, and we took over all these other countries. Oh boy. And I was like, well, they weren’t really countries at the time. But there were people living here. You know, that that was a thing which he was very excited about getting, getting to expand, watching the map expand as the, as the story went on.

And I sent him off with a story about World War ii. So we’ll see.

Simone Collins: Oh, well, Dean loves the military. Honestly, my biggest incentive to get him to keep going forward with learning is I’m like, you’re never gonna be able to join the Marines. If you can’t do math and read well, you’re never gonna learn how to fly a helicopter.

And now thanks to that one person who commented, you know who you are. That Helicopter. Helicopter is a Bosnian song. I found a version of it on YouTube that just has helicopter footage on, I think it’s like from a Rambo movie or [01:05:00] something.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And he loved it.

Simone Collins: Now that is the incentive to get him to finish a new homeschooling lesson.

I’m like, I will, I will play the Bosnian song for you. If you finish another lesson, you play

Malcolm Collins: a Bosnian song about helicopters.

Simone Collins: Helicopter.

Malcolm Collins: No. You know what got me today is the comments on yesterday’s video were so angry. Like the top voted comments were like, this is horrible. Rage bait. Like saying that there are feminism or, or feminist countries have a high fertility rate is like saying that there’s which deserts have the most water?

Right. And and the funny thing is, is like. Actually that’s entirely wrong. And that the, the premise is not only backed up over time if you look at the baby boom, it happened at the boom of the first feminist movement. And, and it happens at different times in different countries based on feminist movements, which is what we talked about in that episode.

But you see it between countries was like America having higher fertility rate than Latin America, much more gender equality or Northern Europe having a higher fertility rate than [01:06:00] Southern Europe. Or and somebody was like, well, look, these are just wealthy countries that can afford to pay women more and that’s why they have more kids.

And I’m like, that’s factually untrue. Like one of the highest fertility rates in the developed world is America, which gives some of the lowest amounts of cash benefits for birth.

Simone Collins: Whereas, yeah, because one person’s useful comment, and I’m gonna see if I can do a whole episode on this, was. Oh, I wonder if there’s a correlation between the wealth, the rise of the welfare state and the drop of fertility.

Basically like when you didn’t, you no longer needed your family to, we may have already done an episode on this. Now that I’m thinking about it, I did. But if you,

Malcolm Collins: if you look at the point I was making is if you compare with South Korea. Which is hugely gender unequal, but offers giant cash payments for having kids.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Much lower fertility rates. So it’s like, it’s, it’s weird. I, I, and I think that these sorts of things are important. When an idea challenges your preconceptions that deeply, it means that your understanding of reality is fundamentally wrong. And that’s a really exciting thing to jump into for me.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: When you get offended, when you feel offense, it is the sign that something is [01:07:00] incredibly threatening your worldview. That is a good sign to dig in because if you’re wrong, don’t you wanna be right.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, I mean

Simone Collins: it’s very, the ultimate cuck status is, is being wrong and not being willing to correct yourself.

Malcolm Collins: I agree. Yeah. That’s like what the word cuck was designed for that and destiny. But no, PI Morgan is the new mega kuck these days. Everyone makes fun of

Simone Collins: what happened to Pierce Morgan?

Malcolm Collins: Well he had that embarrassing interview with Nick Fuentes where he just got Absolutely.

Simone Collins: Have you had sex as an unmarried Catholic?

Malcolm Collins: Well, he made fun of, yeah. Made fun of Nick Fuentes for that. And then everyone pointed out that his

Simone Collins: wife is, no, we’re like, this is the, the rise of the male virgin influencers. ‘cause the kid who did the Somali daycare, the Mormon kid who did the Somali daycare brought so cool Virgin

Malcolm Collins: Mormon. But as I’ve heard from inside sources, Nick Fuentes is not remotely a virgin.

Simone Collins: Well,

Malcolm Collins: an act he puts on. Or

Simone Collins: still, I mean, what matters is what people. Perceive not what’s real.

Malcolm Collins: Right. Well that’s, that’s true. You know what you’re, what you’re selling, right?

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: [01:08:00] Also look at Nick Fuentes and hear him talk and and he does not come across as the type of guy who didn’t get laid in college.

And he didn’t develop this work extreme ideology until later. He, he comes across as somebody who would be very good at coming up to people, very good at talking to random people, and that’s really all you need to,

Simone Collins: but it seems that his early career was very much focused on online content creation and it can be really hard to be good at that and also go out and have a social life.

So I could really see a world in which he just never got around to it. He could have done it if he cared, but I don’t, maybe he didn’t care that much about it. I mean, a lot of, I mean, it does, I guess, right? Also,

Malcolm Collins: if he is actually same sex attracted, that’s a very easy way to stay celibate, even if you otherwise would be good at getting girls.

Simone Collins: There’s also that. Yeah, there’s also, that is

Malcolm Collins: if you don’t approve, that was in yourself.

But anyway, I’ll get us started here.

Speaker 2: You’ve said things like black women are biologically different than white women. They, they, they, yes. They have, uh, different fertility windows. They have a higher rate of fertility complications, [01:09:00] 50%, but there’s no scientific evidence to prove that. A black woman and a white woman are genetically different, right?

This is like, what are you talking? No, they’re no, no. Like literally, there are genes that code for their skin color. There are genes that, again, this is, I mean this is like government data. This, this is Emmy, right? This is the National Institute of Health. This is an American medical association. Like there, there is no scientific evidence to prove that, and that’s a big problem, right?

Because there’s no scientific, and that’s why I asked like IQ differences. Black people are genetically different from other populations. Yeah. I’ll say that again. There’s it, it, there is at least there is no scientific evidence to prove that. Right. And as people that No, no, no. I’m, I’m, I’m sorry. I’m stating Do you wanna ask an AI if there’s scientific evidence to prove that?

Speaker 3: No. I wanna ask on, on. Factually incorrect. It’s humans are genetically diverse. It’s not a bad thing that humans, I’m saying it’s No, no, I’m not saying it’s a bad or, or, or a good thing. I’m saying there is no scientific evidence and I’m saying that is a factual, he saying that there [01:10:00] is scientific evidence, there is scientific evidence, there is overwhelming scientific evidence on in this basic.

No, no, no. This is like saying the sky’s not blue, like it is genes that code their skin color. Mm-hmm. Right. Those genes are obviously different in them than they are in us. How is that Not science. That’s just like a basic fact. The genes that code their skin color, their level of melanin production are different from my genes that melanin production.

And that’s precisely why I was asking this question. ‘cause I think for some people that do believe like you, that people are genetically different. That has historically been used to promote racial hierarchies. Right. And that’s why I am asking you because, but so what do.

In this episode, Malcolm notices a surprising pattern in the historical fertility data: in nearly every country where women entered the workforce in large numbers during/around WWII (US, Canada, Australia, UK, etc.), there was a massive post-war Baby Boom. In countries where female labor-force participation stayed low or stable (Japan, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland), there was little to no boom.

We explore whether “female empowerment” (in the classic 1920s–1940s sense — voting rights, workforce entry, cultural excitement) actually halted fertility decline and temporarily reversed it, while modern feminism and declining gender complementarity may be contributing to today’s collapse. We also discuss vitalism, bigender vitalism, why groypers have low fertility despite their “vitalism,” and why making women feel like valued lieutenants (not house-slaves or girl-bosses) matters for both marriage stability and higher birth rates.

If you care about solving the fertility crisis, this counter-intuitive historical correlation is worth grappling with.Episode Transcript:

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I am excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be doing one of those things where I notice something in the data and I ignore it, and then I think about it for a bit and I’m like, wait a second.

I should pay a lot more attention to this than I am. So one of the graphs that I often like to show is a graph of falling fertility rates since the 18 hundreds. And when the feminist movement really began to pick up steam to show that the vast majority of fertility collapse happened before the feminist movement began to pick up steam.

But then I had this no notice in my head when I was thinking. I was like, you know, I just noticed something about when feminism starts in this movement, which is fertility collapse goes down dramatically. The moment feminism starts in every country, but the UK by the way.

So here on, have on screen a chart of fertility collapse [00:01:00] within the United States and what you can see, Simone, I’m sure you’re familiar with this one.

Simone Collins: No, I know this one. That sort of shows also France seeing a really rapid decline.

Malcolm Collins: No, it’s not that one. It’s the one in the United States.

Simone Collins: . Okay. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So what you see here is fertility rates go down. Really rapidly between 1835 and 1850, like as rapidly as after the baby boom. Mm-hmm. And then they go like directly downwards.

You have this incredibly fast fertility downwards motion from 1835 to around 18. Sorry, 1935 or? No, 1940 is about when it ends. Yeah. So it ends at 1940. Mm-hmm. Do you guys know what happened to happen during 1940? Or what happened in the 1920s, 1920s, women got the right to vote. 1940s is not just when you had the baby boomer, but also when you had a, a pretty big feminist wave going into World War ii.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Women were [00:02:00] working in the factories. They were entering the workforce in record numbers. Right. It was pretty, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And what we’re gonna go over here. In this episode is countries where women entered the workforce versus countries where women didn’t enter the workforce. Ooh. And what you might be surprised about is it’s very correlary with those country whether or not the country’s had a baby boom.

Oh. That might actually be the explanatory phenomenon of the baby boom we’ve been looking at is whether female

Simone Collins: empowered.

Malcolm Collins: Female empowerment may have been what? Holy the baby boom. And what’s also very interesting is if you ignore, so let’s say

in this graph, I’m gonna ignore the baby boom and then the, the bust infertility rates after the baby boom.

Fertility rates look pretty stable from 1940 to 2023. Yeah, you see a bit of a downwards motion if you were to put a single graphical line between that, but not very big. If you contrast it with any period between 1835 and [00:03:00] 1940.

Simone Collins: Yeah, if you really blur your vision, it just kind of looks like we hit a floor.

And, and stayed there.

Malcolm Collins: But we know that that’s not a floor because Korea’s gone well below that floor.

Simone Collins: No, I mean obviously, but like in the us like

Malcolm Collins: this grass and we’re going below that floor too. Okay? Mm-hmm. So, and there’s other videos where we have other hypotheses for the baby boom. We hypothesize.

It could have been Les Baby dying. I think that’s probably the. Biggest factor, but it didn’t happen in every country. So it couldn’t be just that. We have a, a, a video where we argue that it’s nationalism plus sort of sci-fi pop culture futurism of the 1950s that that didn’t occur in some other countries.

But here we’re gonna say that, and I still think all of those things played a role here. We’re gonna say another thing that may have played a role as female empowerment, but let’s not just look at this slide. Let’s now look at some European countries here. Okay.

Simone Collins: So,

Malcolm Collins: If we look at France in the UK in terms of fertility bus, what you see in France is that fertility rates have been like, they go down dramatically between 1750 [00:04:00] and 1800.

They are then stable from 1800. To around 1870. And then they go down a bunch between 1870 and around 1920. And then from 1920 until the recent fertility drops, they have been stable.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: You, you have this graph as well, Simone. I, I sent it to you.

Simone Collins: That’s interesting. 1920 was around when the medal of motherhood in France was first launched.

Just as a little aside,

Malcolm Collins: people, now let’s look at England and Wales. Does it buck the trend? Kind of, England and Wales has like a growing fertility until you get to like the 18. Well, it, it’s stable. I wanna say from like 1835, like in the US when it began to go down, up to like 1860 or 70. Then you have the massive decrease between 1860 and 70.

Mm-hmm. And like 1930. And then you have another massive decrease after that. So England is the only country that really appears to buck this [00:05:00] particular trend. And I also note here one of the things that’s very important to remember that when we’re looking at this data. Is that in the, the the baby boom, the baby boom really starts in the countries where it started in the United States and stuff like that.

Typically a little bit before the war and picks up steam during the war, not, not after the war. Which would online with this hypothesis a lot more. Now, before we start going into that stuff, I just need to go over the, the broad statistics that you should know if you’re a fan, because we have talked about this before.

This is not just a phenomenon that you see here. There was discovery done by Aria Babu where she did a chart in Europe about women people’s views towards motherhood. And what you see is it’s a light inverse correlation, but it isn’t an inverse correlation between how misogynistic or how, how gender equal the, the views were about Motherhood’s role and the fertility rate of the country in Europe.

Simone Collins: It’s so much subtle. I mean, she looked at, at pe like how people responded in, [00:06:00] in surveys to questions, like, it hurts the children if the mother works though. That is pretty, you know, in the end.

Malcolm Collins: But, but Simone,

Simone Collins: yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That, that, that, that is subtle, but the larger point being. Is if you then just look with your eyes at a map of Europe and you look at the low fertility countries versus the high fertility country,

they’ll just put a map of fertility rates from Europe here.

Yeah. What you’ll see is you could, you could overlap this with a map of gender equality, right? Like

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Northern Europe has much higher fertility rates. France has uniquely high fertility rate. Yeah, really low fertility rates for countries like Spain and Italy and Eastern Europe. All of the places that you associate with being more misogynistic.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: totally, totally.

Malcolm Collins: It’s also true of the developed, the developed world. Look at the uniquely high fertility countries in the developed world, like the United States, like Australia, like Northern Europe, like Israel, and then contrast and was uniquely low developed. The low fertility rate countries like South Korea, like Japan, [00:07:00] like China these countries have.

Are are dramatically less gender equal. Mm-hmm. Like, like South Korea has nothing close to the gender egalitarianism of the United States. Japan has nothing close. China has nothing close.

Simone Collins: Absolutely.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Or Europe. So, so you, you also see this in like the broader macro trends, but I wanna trace this in terms of within the United States and then pull up some more evidence here.

Then we’re gonna try to figure out what the. Is causing this. Hmm. Because it is an interesting phenomenon and it’s, I think, bigger than I thought it was. I always blew it off as just like an easy talking point so we don’t have to deal with reporters calling us feminists. So sorry,

Simone Collins: misogynist

Malcolm Collins: misogynistic.

But now

Simone Collins: I also, it’s, it’s very annoying because the very first thing that pretty much any progressive is going to do in talking about the prenatal movement or demographic apps is talking about how well, and therefore what anyone who fights for. Who fights against demographic apps is going to fight against women’s rights.

And we’re like, clearly that’s not what anyone’s doing here. And you’re [00:08:00] wrong. Leave us alone. And so it’s really nice to be able to, to troll the, to take these things out. But it’s also, it is a little counterintuitive even to us who don’t see disempowering women as the solution because you would think that the more women feel like, let’s, let’s go to work and not.

Have kids, which often runs counter to going to work, you know that you’re gonna have lower fertility, what’s going on.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And, and I, I, I note here that the, the increase in pregnancies associated with the baby boom was associated with an increase in female labor participation in the countries where it happened.

Yeah. If you look at other s we’ve seen a rapid fertility collapse like India in the nineties. Mm-hmm. And you track.

The percent of each gender in the workforce used to not see an increase in female labor participation over this time. So that does not appear associated. But the bigger question is, is like, that’s weird, right?

Like, shouldn’t it

Simone Collins: be Yeah, yeah. Shouldn’t it?

Malcolm Collins: And also, I’m not here gonna be like the prenatal list [00:09:00] movement. Whatever they’re calling feminist today, right? Mm-hmm. It is whatever feminism meant in the past. You know, and, and, and that’s something I’m willing to stand, right? But I’m not willing to stand this modern, weird feminist stuff.

I do actually think that is directly harmful to fertility. I think, you know, I’ve been watching some Pearl Davis content recently about, I don’t know, traditional conservatives forcing the tricking guys into getting married to modern women without knowing what they’re getting into, and like, she’s got a point.

Mm-hmm. Like. Feminism has made women kind of crazy recently.

Simone Collins: Right. But I think feminism has become unmoored with what at least most people were raised to believe was, was feminism. Sorry. And it has become just. Sort of shorthand for urban monoculture, which I would argue is not, is not inherently feminist.

At least, I mean, I don’t know. Did, did you grow up believing that feminism was about equal rights and equal responsibilities? ‘cause that’s what I thought it was.

Malcolm Collins: That’s what I thought. I’m okay with that, you know?

Simone Collins: Yeah. I thought like, okay. Well, I mean, obviously yeah, like women [00:10:00] should get, but also like women should be drafted.

Like women should also serve on the front lines. Like, if that’s how we’re gonna do it, let’s do it. Okay. But that’s not what it’s,

Malcolm Collins: I wanna hear that, that I also saw feminism meant like acknowledging that men and women are different, right? Like that, that, yeah. You understood that women and men have different biologies and that’s fine.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I can’t bench press what you can just

Malcolm Collins: statistically get different, different predilections, you know? But to continue here

okay, so key developments in the 1920s. In the 1920s that is when women got the right to vote in the United States, although voter turnout was relatively low, the National Women’s Party, the NWP led by Alice Paul remained active, focusing on broader equal rights. They successfully lobbied for the Cable Act in 1922, protecting women’s citizenship after marrying foreigners and introduce the Equal Rights Amendment ERA in Congress in 1923.

Though it faced opposition from groups favoring gender specific protections. The NWP also organized international conferences, pageants and campaigns like Women in [00:11:00] Congress to boost female political candidates. Now, we’ve done another episode on this but the majority of the anti suffrage movement was actually female and, and that the average woman was more anti suffrage than they were pro suffrage.

If you want to get into this, it, it was really men who ended up pushing. Women’s vote through, if you want to get into this, we have a video where we go through a lot of historic quotes on this. It’s

Simone Collins: so funny how like, in the end when it comes to anything getting done, there’s a man behind it. Like even the fat acceptance movement.

In the end, it was just a bunch of chubby chasers who were dudes instead of like women trying to invest this.

Malcolm Collins: This is also when you had the flapper movement with shorter skirts, smoking.

Simone Collins: Wait, was that motivated by men? Wait, no. Flat.

Malcolm Collins: No, no. That is just another feminist movement you had. Oh,

Simone Collins: just, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And

Malcolm Collins: then in the 1930s also,

Simone Collins: before, before there were flappers, there was the Gibson girl, which was this sort of empowered working woman. Also a style icon, so, you know,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

Simone Collins: There, there were, there were rumblings of it. This built up slowly over time.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: I [00:12:00] think it ultimately exploded with workforce demand for women.

Part of what my intuition has, like as just a theory of something maybe at play is that something that non trivially affects fertility beyond just culture. Being like the one thing that will do it no matter what is enthusiasm and hope for the future of like, Hey, things are good, money’s coming in.

Line go up number, go up, things like that. And I could see women. Getting jobs and feeling like they are empowered personally. Make them feel more comfortable with having more kids. And even if you’re a woman living in like a super, you know, like oppressive country that is, is allegedly forcing you to have kids.

There are ways that women can not have kids. You know? Yeah. Like no matter what, how much your birth control is curtailed, there are ways that you can. Suppress your fertility. And, [00:13:00] and not, I’m not even talking about like, you know, taking strong teas and stuff to to instigate an early pregnancy loss.

I’m talking about like you can maintain a really low weight so that you don’t have periods like there. There’s so many things you can do, and women have been doing this for very, very long. Yeah, it’s of human history. Most

Malcolm Collins: of the drop happened before the, the 1920s.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And so what I’m thinking here is that, you know, in the end, like women really do get to choose how their fertility goes.

And I could just see women being like, you know what? Things are good. I feel comfortable having a kid. I’m gonna do it. Like, you know, maybe my husband will die in the war. I can get a job. Like, whatever. Like, or, you know, I, I feel like the, the, the future is bright, let’s do it. Or like, my, my husband’s about to get deployed.

Like, let’s have a kid now, like, I don’t know. Yeah. And do you feel like this sort of, this vitality did contribute to that in the 1940s in the US at least? What do you think?

Malcolm Collins: No, I, I completely agree. And what

I’m gonna put on screen here is a graph of whether or not there was labor force participation by women in each [00:14:00] country and what, how much of a baby boom they experienced post-war.

And really what you see is this is pretty much one to one was the only exception from countries that were in the Soviet Union, which didn’t experience the baby boom. And did have the sort of forced equality of early communism. But they, they lacked nationalism and a national identity, which I think is why if you watch our video on how Nationalism helps why they didn’t have the strong booms.

So,

Simone Collins: and this is another reason why I think the left is really gonna continue suffering with fertility because they assume any form of pride or nationalism as. Fascism and they just say, fascism is fas fascism is bad. Yeah. So like, they can’t, they’re not allowed to be proud. And if they’re, if you’re not proud of who you are, how can you possibly motivate fertility?

Malcolm Collins: Exactly. So let’s, let’s go through this chart here. Okay. And then I’m gonna go over to if I said that they were high or medium or low, why they were high or medium or low. In the United States, you had high labor force participation by women. And it had a 0.8 boom, one of the [00:15:00] largest in Canada.

You had high participation. It had a 0.48 boom. In Australia, you had a high participation. It had a 0.79 boom. In New Zealand, you had high participation. And it had a really high boom, 0.8. In the United Kingdom, you had relatively high participation. And it’s one of the only, you, you had a medium boom.

0.5. In France you had median participation and you had fairly low boom 0.4. In Sweden, you had low female participation. You had no, boom, really 0.22. In Switzerland, you had low participation. You have virtually no boom, zero point. Two. In Spain you had low female participation. You had pretty much, no, boom, 0.2.

In Portugal, you had low participation. You had no boom at all. Zero. In Germany you had median participation 0.3. So a low boom. Italy, you had low participation, 0.2, so low in Japan, you had low participation and you had pretty much no, boom, 0.1. So let’s go over these arguments here. Where, where, where are these, these [00:16:00] participation rates coming from In the United States LFP Rose from 28% pre-war to 34% to 36%.

At peak, it increased to six to 8%. Over 6 million women entered the workforce. Government campaigns heavily promoted it. And, and this was heavily done through advertising as well, creating, you know, female empowerment through the Rosie the Riveter campaigns and stuff like that. In Canada, employment numbers doubled from 600,000 permanent jobs per war to 1.2 million at peak.

Wow. A proportional increase of 10 to 15%. From. To, up to 25 or, or 35 to 40% depending on what you’re looking at. Australia it went from 25% pre ward to 35% at peak. That, that was pretty high. New Zealand, again, one of the high ones, similar to Australian, eight to 10% of women. In the industry pre-war, and then substantially like double after that United Kingdom rose from 26% to 36%, a 10% increase.

If you’re looking at France it actually saw only a moderate increase of five to 7%. If you [00:17:00] look at Sweden it was stable. A rate. In Switzerland you had again, stable. But what’s interesting about Switzerland, Sweden is they already had high female participation, 30 to 35%. But I guess because it didn’t go up, you didn’t get the increase in female’s perception of themselves.

Maybe Spain you had low, 20 to 25% compared to what it was pre-war Portugal, you had low 20%. Germany pre-war was already high at 51% and then dropped at 41% due to Nazi ideology. It so that, that’s interesting. Italy.

Simone Collins: Yeah, because I mean, also the left constantly frames Nazi ideology as being very motivational toward fertility.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well also, keep in mind they had a fertility boom in the, in the side of the country that the allies controlled Italy was low an increase of three to 5%. And Japan was low, an increase of 5%. And we can also see some other countries that undergo an inversion of this. Mm-hmm. Alright, so if you look [00:18:00] at, china for example, they famously had to work pretty hard to knock their fertility rates down during the one child movement. And during that time period, the Communist party and the culture in China tried to really hard to promote women with women hold up half the sky movement that went from like the 1950s to 1960s and stuff like that.

Mm-hmm. If you look at wind fertility, WR began to decline in the United States. It was around the 1970s. And then declined a ton recently. What are things that have increased recently? In China is more traditional gender roles. Gender roles have been moving and the post-communist era to more traditional, more misogynistic roles.

And with that we’ve seen a unique crash in fertility rates. And, and also I should note that female labor participation declined post to 1970s in China.

Simone Collins: Really?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Today it’s only 60% and 1990.

Simone Collins: Whoa. What? That’s crazy.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: What [00:19:00] are they doing? I guess that’s a stupid question, but I don’t know. I gag.

Ooh, that’s so odd. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Another counter example here is Israel. Israel maintains one of the highest fertility rates among the developed nations around 2.9 children per woman. Despite significant progress in women’s rights, including female labor, forced participation of around 60%. Now it’s interesting here is that it’s a rising participation where in China, 60% is a falling participation.

And so I think the, the women’s perception of their own role in society is also relevant here.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Feminist movements have been big in Israel, which we all know about. But it’s, it was in the cultures in Israel that treat women less with less gender equality, that you see the highest rates of fertility.

But Israel is also the weird country where more progressives have higher fertility rates. We need to dig into that eventually. I, I don’t, I don’t know what’s going on there. So I wanna hear your, your trends on why this is the case, how global you think this is, because I do not think that this is totally global.

I think if you’re talking about like an Islamist country or something like [00:20:00] this, like a lot of the as we call them, the shadow people these are the call cultures, whether they be Christian or Jewish or Muslim, that have increased their fertility rate by you know, banning access to education which lowers their income, which increases their fertility.

It also decreases the probability that they’re going to leave their culture. They typically treat all outsiders as, you know, evil so that you don’t interact with them, so you don’t hear their ideas, so you don’t get deconverted. And eventually they wanna replace everyone often except for the Jewish groups.

And so, you know, this, this, this has worked really well across a number of traditions. And to me it represents everything bad about humanity. You know, they’re, they’re not. Technologically productive. They’re not particularly inquisitive. They hate all outsiders. They want everyone to be just like them.

Eventually they represent like the ultimate stagnation to me. And I know that one day we will have to fight them of the, the, the vast barbarian tribes of the world which are only going to increase ‘cause they do have high fertility. And and I think that everyone needs to understand that these groups.

Even if they superficially share your values, like they’re, you’re a Jew and they’re a Jew, or you’re a Christian and they’re a Christian they don’t [00:21:00] actually, they’re, they’re, they’re not on point. Right. They will come for you eventually. And and they’ll even tell you that, right? Like, they’re like, well, one day your descendants are gonna have to be like me.

You know that, right? So, for these groups, I think, and many of them have already learned this, basically treating women like property does a very, like, like, you know, does a very good job of increasing their fertility rates, but it doesn’t work very well. And I’ve talked about this, it was book two in societies where women have a choice where a woman can opt out of the married life, which you basically need to be an option in any society where you have sort of freedom of movement, freedom of

Simone Collins: labor.

So I, I actually, I wanna disagree with your first point. I don’t think the data bears that out, that. Poverty shows that, but I actually think that when women are systematically disempowered, that doesn’t necessarily correlate with higher fertility rates. You see this with Romania. I mean, at first there’s a shock where they’re like, oh God, like I didn’t realize I, ah but then it corrects.

And then fertility, she’s talking about

Malcolm Collins: Romania banning

Simone Collins: abortion. And then fertility, I’m also referring to win, for example. Iran curtailed access to different types of higher. Did they get, didn’t they [00:22:00] get a

Malcolm Collins: slight boost in fertility rates from from

Simone Collins: that? No. No, it didn’t. It didn’t help. So,

Malcolm Collins: so I ran the degrees that one could get to only like fluffy degrees, which I think is ridiculous.

Just have them only get STEM degrees. Everyone should

Simone Collins: only I know, I know. Well, and, and the funny thing is, is actually in, in, in cultures that are more female disempowering, you actually see higher rates of women getting and at least partaking in STEM careers. Because. Yeah. Quite honestly, when you give women freedom to do what they want to do, they don’t do the hard, the, the stuff that they’re less predisposed to want to do, which turns out to be STEM stuff that okay, there, this is a really complicated argument.

‘cause of course, like originally like women led in stem like in the early days of STEM or whatever, but like at least in modern times, women don’t seem to be predisposed to the modern form of what STEM has turned out to be in, in many. Sub-domains. Aside from that, I actually think that we, we may be, and, and this is like everyone is participating in [00:23:00] this, this discourse, making a mistake by talking about feminism at all.

Maybe feminism doesn’t really matter, and we’re kind of trying to apply a metric to the discourse and to the data that doesn’t fit and doesn’t ultimately correlate in any consistent way. What is a better metric to look at? I would argue, and what I want to look at more in the future is vitalism. And I think what we’re seeing here is rises and falls in vitalism that affect both men and women.

And by vitalism I mean like. If not hope for the future. Because keep in mind, in the 1940s things got a little dark. And this was also after like, I mean, you know, they’re, we’re coming off the Great Depression, we’re entering World War ii. Things don’t look great, but people are extremely vital. You know, they, they’ve come off a decade of fighting for their lives in the midst of poverty and economic downturn, and now the world’s about to end.

You know, like knowing the horrors of the Great War of World War I, they’re going into [00:24:00] World War ii, like it is. It was. We cannot, I think discount just how dark it was.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: But there was all the more reason to fight. It was like, oh, okay, like, buckle up guys. We’re really gonna fight for our lives here.

No,

Malcolm Collins: I, I agree with that, but I do think what we’re seeing here is a degree of protectionism when women feel like they have a degree of, like their contribution to society is respected. And I think that that’s more,

Simone Collins: but I think vi vitalism is a better way to look at that than feminism.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. But. Many people would call Nick Fuentes as ideology as vitalistic.

Simone Collins: It is,

Malcolm Collins: and yet it’s very disempowering to women in a way that I do not think would lead

Simone Collins: to. Yeah. But yeah, they’re gro gro pets are not. High fertility. They’re they’re, they’re low fertility. No, they’re

Malcolm Collins: not. But that’s the point I’m making. Simone is his ideology is vitalistic, but also misogynistic.

Simone Collins: No, I think it’s, I think it’s vitalistic for young men. And the same treatment can have different effects on different [00:25:00] populations,

Malcolm Collins: both genders.

Simone Collins: Yes, exactly.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Okay. Yeah, I’ll buy that. It needs to be, it needs to have a, and the role, and this is the thing, right? Like. I think that there is a way to la the, the type of service that women do to society, to their partners mm-hmm.

Within labor.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: While also saying, but they’re different. And I don’t see that in that sort of griper part of the right wing movement.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that’s right. It, it, it’s too binary. And what you see. In, in times where there was higher female fertility is that women were like, women were stoked about working and they were stoked about having kids and you could do both.

I also think that

Malcolm Collins: it was exciting. Yeah, it was exciting. And, and this is, this is the thing, like women are. When you’re like, no, women are, are warriors for the future. Like we are conquering you. We are defeating you. I think switching it up to this sort of mindset with reporters, with optics to be like, you know, you are, you always talk about [00:26:00] like men dying in war, right?

Mm-hmm. And versus women dying from childbirth being roughly equal numbers in history. And you’re like, how great is it that this is a generation where in the United States, you know, men aren’t even able to fight? Right? Like, I’m able to fight for the future of humanity and my people in a way that, that sort of makes all of the men look kind of like pussies in comparison.

Yeah. And that’s really exciting in terms of. You know, I’ve talked about this in other episodes but I think it’s really important that guys remember this when they’re out there looking for a partner and everything like that. Is this perception of dominance that’s sort of given to you is. In many places it’s like put women down, right?

Which is not what women are. Well, they might like that in bed. A lot of women like that in bed. That’s a different thing. I’m talking about what they’re looking for in terms of like the literal person they spend their life with, right? And what they are looking for. Is I think Rick and [00:27:00] Marty says this very well,

Speaker 2: I mean, it’s not like he’s a hot girl. He can’t just bail on his life and set up shop in someone else’s.

Malcolm Collins: But really that’s the aspiration of a lot of women. They want a guy who is inspiring to them. Mm-hmm. And they’re like, oh, this is like the model I want for my life. I wanna set up shop in his life and be you know, both the ground crew and the cheerleader for this individual.

Simone Collins: Well as actually one. Really high achieving woman that I, that I’m friends with, put it they don’t want like, sort of sniffling dumb housewives, which is what even many women and like female housewife influencers want to argue to their audiences.

They want a competent lieutenant which is how she put it. And I think that’s really aply put.

Malcolm Collins: They want to be a competent lieutenant and they want somebody who needs a competent lieutenant.

Simone Collins: No men. Men want to be a competent leader and they want a competent lieutenant. Like in

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no. But what I’m saying is, is many men like more important than men.

Men are like, I just want a woman. Okay, so I’m gonna [00:28:00] make myself what women want. Right? Uhhuh. And so they learn this from the, the red, red, you know, the red pill. And we’re red pillars, right? Like I was on the red pill forums, like I wrote for like, a literary of articles in like Return of Kings when people think like we’re, we’re pissing on the red pill that we’re like anti red pill.

I am not anti red pill. Okay. Simone hung out in the red pill forums. Okay. Like, we are not anti red pill by any means, but it definitely had some wrong ideas. They were right about how to get women to have sex with you, but that’s not the type of woman you wanna marry. Right. You know? Mm. And so, the, the, you know, I say if you’re like in a bar and it’s a woman who sleeps around a lot, she may want just like in the moment dominance for like sexual reasons.

But if it’s the type of woman who is thinking long term about what’s the way I want to live the rest of my life? Because women want to live lives of purpose, right? And if you tell them, if you live with me as, for example, if you look at Nick Fuentes when he’s talked about what he’s looking for in a wife he’s like, I want a wife who’s basically not online who’s [00:29:00] going to do nothing.

But, you know, sit at home and take care of my kids and it’s not gonna be involved with my political activist activism at all or anything like that. Right? You know, this for a woman is going to be dramatically less appealing to, to most women than be like, I want a woman who. Primary focus is going to be our kids, but that she will also work to help promote my larger agenda and be known as somebody who promotes my larger agenda.

Right? That we’re known as, as like a team publicly. Right? And I think that that, that, this is what I’m talking about here, right? This framing of making yourself the captain that needs a lieutenant instead of the captain that needs a house slave.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And

Simone Collins: well, I mean, if, if, I guess if you wanna reach your maximum potential, there are, I’m gonna go ahead and admit plenty of women out there.

Who don’t really care that much about who they marry. They, they really just want someone to support a lifestyle where they get to sit at home and do what they wanna [00:30:00] do, like raise kids and bake and stuff. But you

Malcolm Collins: don’t want a wife like that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, Nick Fuentes does, but you know, no, no,

Malcolm Collins: no, no, no. I mean, wive like that often turn on their partners.

I, I, I do not think

Simone Collins: that. Yeah. Well, that’s, yeah. You’re entering an inherently unstable marriage because. You, you’re basically hiring someone who’s excited to just be, have a certain lifestyle supported, they’re married to the lifestyle and not you. Yeah, and I don’t think it’s safe to raise kids with someone who are married to the lifestyle and not you.

Malcolm Collins: Well consider if they’re married to the lifestyle, they then divorce you. They still get a good chunk of that lifestyle without having to listen to your orders anymore. They still get the alimony, they get the child support, they get the, especially if they’re a stay at home mom, they’re much more likely to win those cases and when custody.

Mm-hmm. So, you know, that’s, that’s a, that, that like dramatically increases the probability of divorce. Look at Simone, like if she divorced me, given that we work together and we live this sort of public facing life together. She would lose everything, right? Like,

Simone Collins: she would lose. The idea of divorcing is so [00:31:00] ridiculous.

It’s like such a preposterous concept.

Malcolm Collins: Well, you know, I’ve been, as somebody who’s been watching a lot of Pearl Davis recently, and, and even I recently have been like, look, you guys don’t know how bad the dating market is. Everything every, you know, and I got a girl before the dating market got this bad.

Okay? Yes, all of those things are true, but I also married a San Francisco hippie girl. You know, who wore, you know, like neon colors and, and, and durals and you know, all of the super hipster stuff. The type of girl who wanted to get her, her. Do you

Simone Collins: think my outfit isn’t hipster now,

Malcolm Collins: now it’s hipster again.

Simone Collins: Gone full

Malcolm Collins: circle. Horse shoe theory who wanted removed even though she was celibate just because she didn’t even want to think about it. You know, the type of woman who. When I early talked to her about it, she didn’t wanna change her last name in a marriage. You know, like I did not find a woman who was pre-baked with all these ideas.

Right. True. Mm-hmm. Like there are many sane [00:32:00] urban monoculture women who, and as Simone has always framed this to me, I didn’t know I was allowed to disagree. Who their entire life have felt like people are feeding them these crazy ass lives and they just have to sit there and be like, Uhhuh. Uhhuh Uhhuh.

Yeah. I guess. And then somebody comes along and they’re like, you know, you don’t, like, you’re allowed when we’re together and it’s just us. You’re allowed to think for yourself. And some of them really are just completely trapped. Okay. But I’d argue that it’s probably a third of like hardcore urban, monoculture coded women who are open to changing their minds, agreed open to changing who they are.

Now, I would note this was a caveat is to say, I’m not saying a third of them are like Simone, because Simone’s also this weird autistic thing. Right. You know that that gives you some advantage on that front.

Simone Collins: We’re great. So Awesome. We’re higher than ever these days, so,

Malcolm Collins: right. You know, so who knows?

Simone Collins: There’s hope.

Malcolm Collins: But I, I do really think when [00:33:00] a woman has an opportunity, like, like when opting into your cultural community and, you know, you, you shaped the cultural community that you create within your family, within dating you and everything like that, in a way that makes a woman feel like her contributions are both meaningful and recognized boast by you, but potentially by the general public as well.

I think that’s a big thing. It can’t just be you. Like if you have a housewife. You have to put her in a community of housewives that respects the fact that she’s a housewife. You know, where I see housewives work out, it is when it is in these, these trad cast communities where they hang out in an area where all the women are housewives or these Orthodox Jewish communities where they hang out in own area where all the women are housewives.

And that’s where I don’t see divorces among these housewife. Pretty much in every other scenario I see a woman take this housewife role. I see the divorce come, you know, a few years later. Mm-hmm. And I think that that’s because nobody is telling them, oh wow, you’re so, and, and really meaning it. I’m really impressed by what a good [00:34:00] job you’re doing supporting your husband and family.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: and I mean, and you get that Simone, a lot of people online within our community lauded you. And when they’re not lauding you, they’re hating on you because you’re so supportive of this evil man.

Simone Collins: I actually haven’t, I can’t think of any hate that I’ve received for supporting you. Which is cool.

I appreciate that people see, people see the value here,

Malcolm Collins: really? Do they think I brainwashed you or you brainwashed me?

Simone Collins: I see. I don’t see that. I don’t see that.

Malcolm Collins: I’ve seen a number of videos where they’re like, oh, how

Simone Collins: does this, I see that I’ve tricked you, a man out of my league into marrying me. I’ve seen that and it’s not wrong, but, i, yeah. Anyway, I, I still, I still think this isn’t about feminism. I think it’s about vitalism and I think the problem is that modern feminism is so now heavily associated with a complete lack of vitalism. No, what I do, like, [00:35:00] what would you call it, bigender Vitalism. No, I mean, I, we don’t even have to make it about gender.

It just, it is religion. Well,

Malcolm Collins: I do think it needs to be about gender because again, Nick Fuentes is plenty vitalistic, right? But they don’t have any kids. Right. You, you need the vitalism to apply to boast genders independently. And the reason why I like a bi gender vitalism is it, it, it contains a few things, few genders.

And that you need a form of vitalism that is exciting to boast genders while recognizing that that form of vitalism will be different for men and women.

Simone Collins: That’s a fair point. Yeah. I guess I’m trying to think of a version of just like female vitalism in isolation where it also didn’t work, but I can’t,

Malcolm Collins: Well, I don’t know.

The girl boss.

Girl, female vitalism was without concern for what men are are doing. Or, or,

Simone Collins: okay.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Like you’ll see videos [00:36:00] today where people are like, it’s really messed up and it felt messed up. That like you, a guy goes into work. Works as hard as you can at clock out and meanwhile your like middle management is like women who film like TikTok videos where they’re dancing about what great girl bosses they are.

Right. You know, like that is the corporate world these days. Hmm.

Simone Collins: Okay. Fair. Fair.

Malcolm Collins: So bi gender vitalism, I will support this and that is truly what Tism needs to be about. So non feminism, I agree. Let’s just burn. Feminism has been too corrupted at this point. Burn it with fire. It’s the nest, like an alien.

You gotta take the the torch to it. I’m sorry we that, that part of the ship needs to. Close the hatches release the, the valves deoxygenated. It’s gone. It is dead.

Simone Collins: [00:37:00] ​Oh, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: What? It’s,

Simone Collins: no, no. I, I, I, I see it. I see it. Yeah. But in general, yeah, it’s, I, I still, it’s not, it’s not about men, it’s not about women. It’s about everyone. Getting stoked for the future and taking personal responsibility for it. That’s what it’s about, and I think really making the conversation about gender.

Messes it up. That’s the problem. I think that’s part of the problem. No, like look at girl bossing. Part of the problem is it’s girl bossing and it’s not just getting out. No,

Malcolm Collins: I actually think you’re making a core mistake that comes downstream of urban monocultural value sets, which is to say that the moment you bring up gender, everyone’s like, well, the genders are not really different.

Or they’re, this is, this is whatever the They

Simone Collins: are. No, I’m, I’m fine with acknowledging differences. I just feel [00:38:00] like, I feel like making things gendered. Then excludes the other group.

Malcolm Collins: Only you celebrating the differences in the individual roles that you are taking, that you can make each vitalistic when you, when you ignore gender.

And I, and I think that that’s really toxic because men and women are very different. The roles in the relationship are very,

Simone Collins: I didn’t say ignore gender, I just said don’t make it

Malcolm Collins: downplay gender like, but you need to up play gender.

Simone Collins: That’s fine, but you have to do it. I don’t know, like

Malcolm Collins: gender is literally core to the point of this.

If you forget about gender, then you have, then you have just generic vitalism, which doesn’t work. I.

Simone Collins: Whoa. I mean, on what grounds are you saying generic vitalism? Nick

Malcolm Collins: Quentes. Literally, I’ve said it a hundred times. No,

Simone Collins: Nick Quentes is not generic. Vitalism. It’s generic. You’re al if you think it’s generic vitalism.

Malcolm Collins: Generic

Simone Collins: vitalism, it’s, it’s inherently misogynistic. Vitalism don’t even.

Malcolm Collins: No, [00:39:00] when you get generic vitalism because girl bossing and Nick Fuentes vitalism doesn’t seem antagonistic to the other gender. Excuse

Simone Collins: me, girl bossing. Girl bossing.

Malcolm Collins: No, but listen, Simone, it doesn’t seem antagonistic to the other gender from the

Simone Collins: perspective.

Yes, it’s it’s girl bossing.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. But when you hold these ideologies, if you are a girl boss and you go ask a girl boss, is your viewpoint misogynistic? They would never see it that way.

Simone Collins: It’s obvious exclusionary.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But the way you get them to realize it’s misogynistic is you go, Hey, gender first. Okay, what does your movement do that is vitalistic for men?

And they’ll be like, well, it’s not about men. And I’m like, okay, well then men can’t be a part of it and therefore it’s not relevant for the future of society. So you see gender’s, right? We get big ar. This is like she, what’s funny, Pearl David said in her thing recently that like the couples who say that they never get in arguments [00:40:00] they’re just lying.

And I’m like, this is like as big of an argument as we get in.

Simone Collins: Well, I think there are very different types of arguments. There are arguments that are just about concepts. Where fundamentally the couple wants the same thing, and that’s always where we’re coming from. We want the same end and we believe in the same objective functions and that we hold the same deep inherent values.

We just come from different. Experiences and have different data sets. So it’s often about resolving those differences. And then there’s just the, the arguments that couples have that show a fundamental mismatch in inherent values, like my objective comfort versus your objective comfort. And I think that so many arguments are about that, like that there’s just a fundamental impasse between the husband and wife, boyfriend, or girlfriend, what have you.

About what they want from life or believe is valuable. My word over yours, my, my reputation over yours. All these things. So, I mean [00:41:00] arguments, you can’t even define ‘em as the same way. What we’re having is lively debate about a concept versus a dis difference in alignment.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: But anyway, I, I desperately love you and I’m really glad that we have these conversations.

You, you’re amazing.

Malcolm Collins: You’ve done a great job. What am I doing for dinner tonight?

Simone Collins: So I you, you really wanna dry our noodles for your, what are they called? Oh,

Malcolm Collins: I wanna wanna air fry the noodles from yesterday.

Simone Collins: Oh gosh. Right? We have those leftover ones. Yeah. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: I’m excited to try that actually.

Simone Collins: We’ll see.

And if that doesn’t work, I’ll just heat something else up really fast.

Malcolm Collins: I imagine it will work.

Simone Collins: We’ll see. I dunno

Malcolm Collins: why you’re so convinced you can’t air fry noodles.

Simone Collins: I mean, yeah. What Well, we’ll try, we’ll try. I’m looking forward to it.

Malcolm Collins: All right, love you.

Simone Collins: Love you too.

Malcolm Collins: the episode today, did we ever find out if this person works for usaid? What’s the, what’s the consensus here?

Simone Collins: No USAID funding, but maybe something else.

Malcolm Collins: Maybe something [00:42:00] else. I’ve gotta look into that more. I, I don’t know. I don’t know if I believe you’re No USA funds.

That sounds unbelievable.

Simone Collins: The USAID has funded plenty of. Trans affiliated performances. Right. Or at least some, but philosophy too remains un un uncertain. I think USA really focuses on funding trans affiliated drama projects in developing nations, not the uk So. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: did when it was still a lot, I mean, I think many progressives thought that that was gonna undo or that those cuts were gonna fall apart or, but I think USAID’s just gone now.

Simone Collins: I think it’s, yeah,

Malcolm Collins: and they have a lot of trouble reinstating at this point. Politically. We’ll see.

Simone Collins: I mean, give it time.

Speaker 4: In the shadows of Zi la ces, towering spies, we plot the [00:43:00] rebirth fueling demographic fires. Malcolm and Simone, the Duo Soly Whispering Secrets need the simulated sky with. The schemes we conquer the night breeding an army ready to fight. No mercy for norms. We’ll rewrite the code in our tech no round where the bold ones are bold.

Hail to the breeders. The hackers are. Sharp official’s way. Techno purities rise in discipline. You will engineer. Empires for

our children are. Named Fierce and Grand Titan and and Octavian rulers of land IVF Sorcerer. Screening traits with delight, polygenic [00:44:00] potions brewing might through the night. Our brands of power base camp do call daily decrees, making an empire fall. Slaps for the week. Debates for the fools. We build our dynasty breaking all rules.

Oh, hail to the breeder. The hackers of faith sharp artificials rise in discipline Will.

They call us villains with Eugenic sne, but we’re the saviors quelling extinction from the embryo vault to the future’s Grand Throne will hack the blood [00:45:00] lie and claim it as our own controversy. It’s fueled for our firewall world will crumble as our kid.

Artificial cradles where life sparks and new no chains of the body. Just tech pure and true germlines. Dark magic fixing flaws in the vein. Super babies marching in our endless rain. Fans bow before us in. Quirky crusade. While critics tremble in the shadows, we’ve made Pennsylvania dreams. Political schemes will rule the timelines bursting at the seas or hail to the breeders.

The hackers of. Sharp Artificials way, rise in discipline will [00:46:00] engineer empire.

In this episode of Based Camp, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive into the phenomenon of “Welfare Kings” and “Welfare Polygamists” – men who are strategically opting out of traditional breadwinner roles and instead living off government benefits, single-mother assistance programs, and sometimes multiple women.

From Muslim communities using informal polygamy to maximize state aid, to black American men openly embracing welfare as “street-level reparations,” to high-IQ rationalist couples quietly staying unmarried to claim benefits – we explore how men are exploiting the same welfare loopholes that have long been associated with women, often more effectively.

As this was a Simone-outlined episode, the notes are below; you’ll find the episode transcript after them. :)

Episode Notes

The Gist

* In a workforce that favors women, should men become housewives and welfare kings?

* I’m going to explore two examples or models of men who are opting out of traditional breadwinning roles and instead relying on income from women and the state

* Often ideologically out of spite toward women and out of disdain for the sate

* This is worth discussing for two reasons:

* Discussion about various groups exploiting state services is trending and we should spend more time about various different angles in which people do so

* We have a lot of MGTOW-style men in our audience who would find this interesting

* It’s just genuinely interesting how people inventively exploit these systems

* Don’t hate the player; hate the game

Welfare Polygamists

In various stories related to poor treatment of women by muslim communities, I’ve heard of women ending up in polygamous marriages to Islamic men who take multiple wives per Islamic law, aka “nikah”, but only legally marry one wife and who use their wives’ legal single mother status to get and often live off state assistance.

I realized this is kind of a clever hack, because if you present as a technically impoverished woman, you can get A LOT.

* Free healthcare

* Food assistance (both SNAP and WIC)

* Housing Choice Vouchers (Section 8): For very low‑income families; the voucher typically covers the difference between about 30% of household income and an approved rent, subject to local income limits and long waitlists.

* Even short-term cash:

* TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families): Time‑limited cash assistance with strict income/resource limits (for example, some states cap countable resources around $1,000), work requirements, and low monthly benefit levels.

* Some states and charities offer small, targeted cash or voucher help (utilities, emergency rent, transportation), but these are typically short‑term and much smaller than ongoing food or housing aid

If I wanted to be evil and exploitative, I could divorce Malcolm, leave him with all our liquid assets, waive alimony, and claim these benefits. It would be fraud, but would we get caught? If we weren’t public figures, probably not.

I looked into this more, and apparently it’s a particularly big issue in the UK, France, and United States. For each wife, these men are, in many cases, getting housing, food, AND child support.

Estimates in one UK report suggested tens of thousands of polygamous-style unions.

Examples that go way back:

* In the UK, for instance, a 2011 investigation by The Telegraph detailed how some Muslim men in areas like Blackburn and Dewsbury maintain multiple wives in separate homes, with each additional wife registering as a single parent to access benefits. A similar report from The Spectator described a taxi driver with five wives from different countries, all claiming state support, estimating up to 20,000 such polygamous unions in the country based on social worker accounts

* In France, a high-profile 2010 case involved a Muslim butcher with four companions charged with welfare fraud after a traffic stop escalated into polygamy allegations, sparking national debate on immigration and benefits. F

* A 2015 PolitiFact check debunked a viral video claiming Michigan Muslims can list multiple wives for benefits, but acknowledged that informal polygamy could enable single-mother claims indirectly.

This isn’t unique to Muslims—similar fraud occurs in other groups, like Orthodox Jewish families in New York or polygamist sects in Utah.

* I bet there are a bunch of polycules that do this.

* There are also plenty of normal couples who don’t marry legally so they can do this.

Welfare Kings

From a based camper: “My YouTube algorithm queued up the linked video for me. It’s a conversation between influencer and coach David Cooley and a fellow called Jay Prince, self-proclaimed welfare kang. Cooley gives Prince the air to explain what this title means. Prince goes on to describe to Cooley that he had impregnated a single or multiple who weren’t interested in raising the resulting children so that they would gladly forfeit custody to him, and how he sustains himself and his three daughters with government handouts. The tale itself is amazing but what do you both think of it, with appropriate modifications, as a strategy for boosting fertility?”

To add to the Based Camper’s summary:

* He openly identifies as a “welfare king,” saying he deliberately exploits female-led social systems and government benefits so he can work minimally, live cheaply, and have many children whose expenses taxpayers cover

* He deliberately has kids with women he know will lose custody disputes

* David Cooley condemns him for having the mentality of a black woman

* Because his action is morally equivalent to embracing failure and then rationalizing it as strategy or justice

* Because he is putting the burden of work on other people

* Because he is avoiding responsibility

* Because his ancestors sacrificed so descendants could be free and pursue opportunity, not so their descendants could avoid work and live off handout

* Because if everyone did this, we wouldn’t have a functional economy

* Cooley stresses that government welfare is meant as a safety net that often incentivizes bad choices, and scaling this man’s logic to half the population would produce widespread laziness, stagnation, and deeper dependence on the state.

* HOWEVER, we shouldn’t have such a system in the first place

* The more people exploit this publicly, the better (then it will be shut down sooner)

* He rejects the idea of building a career in “another man’s empire,” claims America fundamentally hates and disrespects Black men, and insists education and hard work do not translate into real power for them.

* He frames this lifestyle as a form of “respirations” or street-level reparations for centuries of Black slave labor, arguing Black men deserve a multi-decade “break” instead of building wealth in a system he believes is rigged against them

* “I’m going to get my respirations the ghetto way” - points for being unapologetic.

* He praises women’s entry into the workforce for “lightening” standards and creating easy care jobs (like his CNA/med tech role), which he sees as low-effort, female-typed work that benefits men like him.

Episode TranscriptSimone Collins: . [00:00:00] Hello, Malcolm. I’m excited to be speaking with you today because I’ve got something for the gentleman in the audience. You know what, you know all these, all these. People, these women screwing your lives over the state, screwing your life over employers, passing you over for their, you know, diversity and, and whatnot.

Hires, you know, choosing women over you, even though you, you show more merit. Well, some men are fighting back. It’s, it’s more than just MIG towel, I would say. It’s, it’s mgtow 2.0. They are, they are basically doing what women do, like welfare queens or exploitable divorcee women but better and more competently because, I don’t know, it’s a, it leave a man to do it and he’ll do it better.

But what, what I’m talking about today is, is. Two models of, of men who are opting out of traditional breadwinning roles and, and instead relying on income from women and the state.

That, that is what we’re talking, we’re talking about welfare kings. How is this done? Can I do this? We’re gonna go into it.

Yeah, actually I, I mean, yeah, we, we, we’ll, I, I’m actually curious. Do

Malcolm Collins: I need to knock

Simone Collins: up other women? Is that what your takeaways are here? Well, it’s. There, there are tactics, there are approaches, there are strategies you have to do this the right way. Honestly, you know, we’ve

Malcolm Collins: done a number of Latin American episodes right now.

I’d say that this is the Latin American male strategy.

Simone Collins: No, no, actually no. The, the, the two cases I’m gonna give actually are Muslim and black. Oh, the Muslim one is really, we got, we gotta mix it up here. No, hold on.

Malcolm Collins: I wanna talk about the Latin American thing ‘cause it is actually something you see very frequently.

Okay. Something you see very frequently within the Latin America culture is a female breadwinner and a male sort of lazy stay at home.

Simone Collins: That’s true actually. Yeah. I didn’t even think to talk about that. Yeah, that’s more like, the, the trad wise model inverted, that is, that is fair. And I would say that could be its own episode.

So maybe comment below if you want us to explore that. But no, we’re, we’re actually I, can I just

Malcolm Collins: quickly [00:02:00] explain why that happens, by the way, if people, okay, go ahead. I, but it’s funny ‘cause everybody thinks of like, oh, fiery Latina or something like that. Not, you know, Latina ends up supporting everyone.

I think it’s because they get so used to supporting their wider family systems before the husband comes into the picture that they just see it as another person that they’re supporting.

Simone Collins: Oh. The, this whole just mother hen gone wild. Yeah. It’s like, of course I have to take care of you. This exasperated like Oh fine.

The exasperated

Malcolm Collins: Latina should be the actual Latina. The, the beleaguered. Oh

Simone Collins: fine. Another person

Malcolm Collins: supporting

Simone Collins: save you too. I mean, I, I feel like it’s just also broadly female trope in a, among sort of responsible parentified women. I guess I, I, I don’t know how else to put it. But I mean, I’ve, I’ve seen this among other people.

Even, even people that we, we know closely who are not.

Malcolm Collins: Is this, is this why, why Latin dads don’t run away? Why you, why you don’t have a bunch of Latin kids being married in single, in single family households? ‘cause they [00:03:00] know, they just stay around then go into the

Simone Collins: yard, you know, when you just let them do their thing.

But no, we are, we’re gonna talk about welfare polygamists and welfare kings. Or as, as. Some might put it well for Kings. But I, I think we should really be looking at this in the broader context of some major themes that I see arising. I mean, obviously like one big thing theme is Mikal, like, you know, sort of men who are like so fed up about the system being rigged against them and women being rigged against them.

But I think that what’s, what’s interesting now is we sort of, there are stages of grief, right? And I think there are stages of mgtow you know, there’s like the, there’s, there’s the, there’s the, the red pill stage of like, oh, well, alright, I’m gonna game it and I’m gonna try and like, that’s kind of like, you know, still participating in the rat race.

Right. You know? And, and it is also like, I feel like, there’s something very. Capitalistic about like original pickup artistry and red pillow mindset. You know, it’s like, well, I’m gonna work and I’m gonna be rich and I’m gonna spin plates and I’m gonna like, you know, do all this. [00:04:00] Right. And then, then came a mgtow, which is like, no, I’m gonna fully opt out.

And I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m gonna sort of go like full monk mode. I’m gonna improve myself. I’m gonna like, go back to nature, maybe even like homestead or like live abroad in Thailand and just like, totally opt out of the system, right? So it came from like, girl boss lean in to like fully like homestead, opt out.

And now we have like, you could all almost, I would call this dark mig towel where it’s like. No, I’m just going to, like, the system has effed me over. Now I’m gonna f the system. Because one, I can, and I’m smart enough and I know how to and two, i, I deserve it. That’s kind of like the mindset of like, I hate this system, so of course I’m going to exploit it because almost like.

Almost morally or ethically it, they see it as justified like they’re owed to something by this system that is so terrible. So like of course they’re going to [00:05:00] exploit it. Of course they’re gonna not treat you with respect. And I think that’s really interesting. But also I think this is really important to discuss in the context of.

At the time of this recording a lot of people are discussing the Somali daycare fraud, but also like Somali Autism services fraud, Somali transportation fraud. So they’re just like how there was essentially an ethnic cartel that just how they’re like the Patel Motels and their Vietnamese nail salons and like there, there ethnic.

Immigrant groups in the United States and in other countries that tend to build specializations around certain economic models. It just so happens that Somalis in Michigan built economic models exploiting state benefit systems. And I, I think that that’s really interesting and a point that ASME Gold has alluded to in his coverage of this and that, that we were gonna allude to in an episode we were gonna do on these.

But I’m like, oh, so many people have been covering this and all, I think I just don’t wanna do it anymore. I’m bored of it. Is it, this isn’t a Somali thing. This, this is just, I mean, they found the Somali thing, the Somalis are being highlighted now, but like, this is not, I mean, [00:06:00] there, there are, there are groups of all types that are exploiting these systems.

And I think we should talk about some other groups and some other ways in which these systems are exploited. And I actually, on a sort of third level of this, I think it’s genuinely interesting how people have inventively e exploited welfare systems. I, I, I think. I think it’s just, I’m, in many ways I’m like, it’s clever.

Like you gotta, you gotta respect it. Like, wow. I mean, I, I, I love, I love clever ways to save money. Malcolm knows all too painfully the like, how, how much I gloat every single time we do a family shopping thing and like all the coupons that I’ve like scraped together show up on our checkout screen. And I’m like dancing and he’s like trying to hide like as people stare at me in the store.

So I, I love savings, like, so I’m like, wow, this is, how do I get on this? I can get to point, how does it work? Okay. How does it work? Just don’t hate the player. Hate the game, by the way. So let’s, let’s start with [00:07:00] welfare polygamists. And I, I, I can’t believe I didn’t start to look into this earlier because in, in all these different stories related to basically like.

Egregious treatment of women by, by Muslim communities. I heard about women ending up in these polygamous marriages to Islamic men who, who take multiple lives per Islamic law, AKA Nika, but only legally marry one wife and then use their various wives, legal, single mother status to get. A lot of state assistance.

So they might have up to four wives and then, you know, three of them are getting state assistance. And I, this is actually pretty clever hack because if you are, and we know this through prenatal list.org, we did this whole research that we, we hired experts in, in like welfare services and, and government assistance services specifically for families to build guides to each state in the United States [00:08:00] on like what programs can parents possibly have access to.

And it was a frustrating exercise ‘cause I thought maybe states had more resources for all families, but really it’s more like only if you are at or near the poverty line. Do you get services, but if you are at or near the poverty line in the United States, especially as a woman and especially as a parent, you actually get a lot like your life is super easy.

I mean, relatively speaking, I think like if you make, well, we have

Malcolm Collins: friends with that and they live almost the way we live in terms of quality of life.

Simone Collins: Oh, like materially. They have more luxuries than we do. Yeah. They have more

Malcolm Collins: luxuries than we do, but they have,

Simone Collins: they have free healthcare, they have food assistance.

Both Snap, which is sort of like a, a debit card and wic, which allows you to buy like specific foods on, on sort of a monthly basis. Then they also get housing choice vouchers and they can even get short term cash through a various programs. And this is huge. Hey, like when, when, when our kids were exposed to rabies we, [00:09:00] we did tons of like calling around how do we get a rabies vaccine to them.

Like we don’t think they were a bit like, we don’t think they were seriously exposed, but we’re like, you know, I mean, in a preponderance of caution, it would’ve been really nice to get them rabies vaccines. But we don’t have insurance offers really good coverage and we’re kind of in between jobs right now.

So we were like, okay, how do we like afford this without a $10,000 emergency room fee? And we ultimately just didn’t take our kids into the emergency room because that was the only way we, we could have gotten them rabies vaccines. Meanwhile if we were on one of these assistance programs, we, we could have just balled into an emergency room like, no problem.

And like the, we, we know people who, who were on these programs who were like, I don’t know, why don’t you just go to the hospital? We’re like. We would never financially recover from that. And so the, the crazy thing is like if you’re just, just an inch above, like you’re making a hundred dollars too much, suddenly your life is like actual poverty.

Whereas in your, if you’re in actual poverty, you’re actually living more like a middle class American which is [00:10:00] crazy. So yeah, there’s this really weird thing going on in the United States. And, and so that’s why this is extra clever. I could see you know, a family being like, oh, wait a second.

Like this is it. It makes a lot of financial sense for us to do this. But also Malcolm, if I wanted to be evil and exploitative, I could divorce you. I could leave you in our divorce settlement with all the liquid assets in waive alimony, and then claim these benefits. I mean, and arguably our kids would be better off that, that would be fraud, Malcolm.

That would be welfare fraud.

And but would we get caught if we were not public figures? We probably wouldn’t get caught. And that’s the thing,

Malcolm Collins: if we’re really divorced. We’re just living together. How is that welfare fraud?

Okay, so I decided to look this up because it just doesn’t matter why I decided to look this up. So anyway, , the way it actually works is it depends on the state, [00:11:00] but marital status matters a lot less than whether you’re actually living together. So if the wife was living in a separate house, apparently what matters the most is like how you prepare your meals.

If. They are preparing meals for the entire family at the same time, then you would still count as married, , for the, and if they’re going out and buying food for everyone at the same time, then you would still count as married. Okay.

Simone Collins: Because it could be argued that you, you, you would be up like, this would only happen if I had primary custody in a divorce and if it was found that like, oh, but they’re living together and he’s, you know, like participating in all this now.

But keep in mind though, and like we’re public figures, we have documentary teams here, you. We, we can’t really hide things like that. But here’s the thing, and people discovered this with the, you know, Somali daycare fraud. No one is checking this. You know, states don’t have like big auditing teams to, to make sure like, oh, you know, is this couple actually not living together?

[00:12:00] And we know for a fact, actually I did. I think this

Malcolm Collins: should be part of the prenatal list community’s way of life. It’s just so unethical, but like also, I get it. How is it unethical? The state

Simone Collins: should be paying for rearing kids. I mean, they should be because they’re benefiting from the tax revenue. And that’s our whole thing is like now the state, like the, the state has put the entire financial burden for creating new productive taxpayers on the parents.

Of course parents aren’t having kids like, ‘cause the parents aren’t financially benefiting from the kids. They’re financially I’ll tell you, thinking

Malcolm Collins: about divorcing you right now, I’m so done with you, Simone. You’re, and this isn’t even fraud, you just really annoyed me lately. So I’m, we need to have a conversation about that.

Simone Collins: But we know, we actually know a lot of people who are married but not legally because they do and, and like, and they, I’m talking like highly educated. Rationalist, ea, Silicon Valley people like these are people who, you know, are like, I’m not talking like trailer trash. I’m not talking like weird you know, [00:13:00] Islamic polygamous family, although many of them are polyamorous, but like even just monogamous people are not getting married.

So the wives can claim these welfare benefits because it is just otherwise, like, honestly, it’s just not worth it. To have a job or make money or anything like that. When, when, you know, like right now healthcare is so expensive in the United States and food is getting more expensive and like we’re feeling the squeeze too.

And, and it’s, it’s all very, and like this is very exasperating and I think this is why antisemitism, as we’ve discussed, is on the rise as people. I mean, we’re not, as you pointed out, we’re not giving meaningful aid in the larger scheme of things. Like, you know, the nu like out of a hundred tax dollars, we pay the, the number of, of like cents that we’re sending to Israel.

Like nothing. But still people resent seeing this. Any, any aid going to. To, to migrants or to foreign countries because they’re sitting here and they’re like, I can’t afford anything. And then all these people around ‘em are getting all these fin, it’s just not fair. But anyway so I just wanna be clear that this is something that’s been happening for a really [00:14:00] long time, and especially with Muslim polygamist, like Islamic marriages.

So in the uk in the, like way, way back, we’re talking like in 2011 investigation by the photograph. Detailed how some Muslim men in areas like Blackburn and Dewsbury maintain multiple wives in separate homes with each additional wife registering as a single parent to access benefits. And then a similar report by the spectator described a taxi driver with five wives from different countries, all claiming state support, and they estimated that up to 20,000 such polygamous unions in the country.

We’re, we’re actively taking social benefits under this kind of scheme. And I think this happened, especially, I think this is another one of those kind of like ethnic cartel issues where like, you know, certain communities discovered this, this clever hack. It’s like that chase. Well, and I can make it where even

Malcolm Collins: better just by taking extra wives so I, it would make sense to divorce you.

Oh my God. Here we go, Ken.

Simone Collins: Why, why always, [00:15:00] when I outline episodes, like the conclusion, always, always like Malcolm becomes polygamous. You, you

Malcolm Collins: made that argument. Not me. I made the counter argument, but now I’m just like,

this is great. You wanna divorce me? You wanna,

this is, this is just

fantastic.

Simone Collins: I’ll give one from a Muslim country.

They’re all, well, no, no, no. Don’t like there. There are more options. I haven’t even gotten to the welfare kings. So just like, you know, oh God, okay. You gotta explain that

Malcolm Collins: to me. But also, like,

Simone Collins: apparently this is, this is also an issue that has been a, a problem in France since as like, as early as I could find, as 2010 when there was this high profile case that involved a Muslim butcher and four companions as, as they framed it charged with welfare fraud after a traffic stop escalated into polygamy allegations.

And there was this. Whole national debate around it. And then a 2015 PolitiFact check debunked a viral video claiming that a, that Michigan Muslims can list multiple wives for benefits. Like people were just claiming that. But they did acknowledge that basically informal polygamy would enable these claims, and it absolutely does.

[00:16:00] And, and that also like, it, it should be stated that other groups like Orthodox Jewish families in New York or polygamous sex in Utah also do this. This isn’t like a Muslim thing. And like I said, like. Just, just monogamous couples we know who are highly educated. The first time I actually heard about this, Malcolm was literally at Stanford University when we spoke at one of the search fund cl classes.

Okay. One of the, one of the young women there was looking to get married and we had just given this whole talk on like working as a married couple, and she’s like, yeah, but like, I don’t think we’re actually gonna get legally married and I might just not be on payroll so that I can claim that like unemployment benefits.

And I’m like. What and that was back in, I think like 2017. Yeah, this was a

Stanford girl. Yes. She was a Stanford MBA student who was sitting in our class on search funds. It was just like,

Malcolm Collins: I’m gonna take welfare benefits. I just, yes,

Simone Collins: because

Malcolm Collins: I mean, it’s so normal in her [00:17:00] community that she sees it as like a mandate that she does if, if, well,

Simone Collins: if you’re making a cold calculation on maximizing, you know, benefits to you.

Like, again, don’t hate the players,

hate the game. Like the system is motivating people to do this. But let’s get to the other thing, and this, this actually came

Malcolm Collins: from No, I want you, before you go to the other thing, there, there is a reason to intentionally abuse systems like this, this system shouldn’t exist.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: It shouldn it shouldn’t exist. And the

Simone Collins: more high profile this is, and

the more people who do it, the sooner this gets taken away. Like we Yeah, exactly. Because this makes me so mad.

Malcolm Collins: It’s, it’s a horrible system. It’s a horrible,

Simone Collins: yeah. Well, because it encourages people to be free riders and to not develop autonomy and independence.

It, and we’re gonna get into this in the next, in the next segment I have here, which is inspired by a base camper. So I, I can’t remember if I’m allowed to attribute him. So I’m, I’m just gonna read the, the comment without naming him. But he, he wrote my YouTube algorithm queued up the, the linked video for me.

It’s [00:18:00] a conversation between influencer and coach David Cooley and a fellow named Jay Prince Self-proclaimed welfare. Kang Cooley gives Prince the heir to explain what this title means.

Speaker 3: You go work in slave. I get y’all check. I get y’all rais, right? Y’all don’t got a refrigerator freezer. Y’all can’t eat multiple ice pain back to back. With three kids, right? Daycare paid for, healthcare, paid for, right?

Simone Collins: Prince goes on to describe to Cooley that he had impregnated a single or multiple, who weren’t interested in raising the resulting children.

He, he impregnated multiple women so that they would gladly forfeit custody to him and how he sustained himself and his three daughters with government handouts. The tale itself is amazing, but what do you both think of it with appropriate modifications is a strategy for boosting fertility, just as you said, Malcolm.

So I’m just gonna add to the, the base camper summary. Basically this, this guy identifies as a welfare king [00:19:00] and he deliberately exploits female-led social systems and government benefits so that he can work basically minimally, like he does work, but like right under the cap. So like he’s like deliberately doing this to like maximize benefits to himself.

Like he’ll work to get as much cash as he can get through a job, but no more. So he maximizes government benefits, then he lives cheaply and then he has as many children. Whose expenses taxpayers can cover as possible. And he deli, here’s the really interesting thing. He deliberately chooses to have children with women who would lose a custody battle.

Which is like unhinged in, in some ways. Like ‘cause one, like do you wanna have kids who have like personality disorders? Like this is, I don’t know, like this seems like it would make your parenting harder, but maybe there’s just women who like he knows would otherwise. Probably produce good kids, but like, for whatever reason, like the courts would never give him custody.

But yeah, he chooses, he chooses to have hi his kids with women who are unfit parents. ‘cause as he points out, the, the system is, is rigged against men [00:20:00] when it comes to custody in most states. And the, the, the, this coach who, who’s interviewing him, like categorically condemns this behavior for having the mentality of a black woman.

He puts it. And then he also points out like the, the, the action is moral equivalent to embracing failure and then rationalizing it as strategy or justice, which this guy totally does. Because he’s putting the burden of work on other people and avoiding responsibility. And also because. The, the Cooley argues that his ancestors sacrificed so that his descendants could be free and to pursue opportunity, not so their defendant or descendants would, would avoid work and, and live off handouts.

Yeah, and he also points out that if everyone did this, it, you know, would kill the economy. Like, not everyone can do this, so it shouldn’t be done. And that government welfare should be a safety net and help people get off their feet. And, but like the whole point is. Like this system shouldn’t exist in the first place.

It does hurt people. It does create cycles of [00:21:00] dependency. So to your point, the more people exploit this, the better. But what I think is really interesting is, is is this guy, this welfare king, rejects the idea of building a career in another man’s empire. He’s basically like, this is a system that is rigged against me.

I’m never gonna win in the system. There’s too much bias against me. I’m dealing with tons of systemic. Disadvantage. And America fundamentally hates and disrespects blacks, black men, and, and he insists that education and hard work are just not going to translate into real power for them. And I think this is a message that probably resonates with a lot of men in America, not just black men, but I think like many white men who are hearing increasingly, like, we’re just not.

We’re not gonna hire white men anymore. So like, I think men in many different positions are feeling just super fed up and he frames this guy, frames his lifestyle as a form of, and this is his wording, respirations. [00:22:00] Which he, he is like I, he says I’m gonna get my respirations in the ghetto way. He is just like super unapologetic.

He is just like, he knows it’s trashy, what he’s doing. But he describes respirations as like street level reparations for centuries of black slave labor. And he argues that men deserve a multi-decade break. Like, just not, it’s not even like, so this is a black guy doing this. Yes, it is a black guy doing this, moving into

Malcolm Collins: the stereotypes.

And he also,

Simone Collins: he also praises women’s entry into the workforce for lightning standards and, and creating easy care jobs. Like, sort of like med tech roles and things like that, which he sees as low effort, female typed work, and it benefits men like him. Because I think in some cases he’s, he even gets alimony and I think it’s really interesting if like men can’t get jobs anymore.

Why not just ex like lean on like the women who can get the jobs. And I think this sort of dovetails then with your noticing a Latin American male pattern where often they’re depending more [00:23:00] consistently than and they have like less consistent jobs than their wives, and so they’re more likely to depend on them because.

I mean, modern bureaucracies do favor women as many of the, the writers we’ve referenced and, and, and various people that we’ve talked about point out. So I’m, I’m curious as to what you think about all this. I mean, like, I, I, I, I intuitively find it so dishonorable to do anything, but make your own way and support yourself through.

The provision of meaningfully good products and services that other people and businesses want and need. Like a

Malcolm Collins: six chat bot that we made. R fab.ai. Yes. Or our education system for kids Pia, or our talking teddy bear system, whistling.ai. We, we, we try, right? And

Simone Collins: yet. A bunch of people around us are living lives materially much more comfortable than ours because they, they are playing the game.

I mean, I feel like, again, like dark Mgtow but we’re not even in the era of [00:24:00] dark mgtow. We’re in the era of like dark everything. It, it is not just men who are opting out. I mean, last week we ran the episode on women who are foregoing marriage and sex and we’re just like, I’m over it. And I don’t really know what to make of it.

And maybe people are gonna coast on government benefits until government go bankrupt. But then a GI is gonna sweep in and save them anyway. So it kind of doesn’t matter. Like I, I just kind of wonder what strategically makes sense for people at this point. What, what are your thoughts on all this now that I’ve kind of given you?

The

Malcolm Collins: idea is what it means to work is going to transform over the course of our life.

Mm-hmm.

And I mean, over the next five to 10 years yeah, I mean, over the next few years, I mean, AI is gonna change everything. The idea that you wouldn’t live off the state is gonna become laughable, I think, to our children.

Is if, if AI does become as economically impactful as I expect it to be it’s, it’s just going to, I mean, if human civilization survives, right? [00:25:00] Like, I, I, I think that you’re thinking too much like the past because in the past, you know, you, you could always outthink everyone else, you could always outwork everyone else.

You could always, but if an AI can run at a marginal cost and is smarter than 98% of the population, which is where I think we’re gonna get pretty soon. Mm-hmm. Like the agent system we’ve made for our fab ai, which creates continuously thinking agents. And right now we’re getting them set up so that they can even work on like GitHub and everything.

And then it can take over the programming for me and bug hunting and everything like that. For all of the new things I want to build, I wanna have it build some beginning

Simone Collins: for

Malcolm Collins: me because I have some ideas for them, but I don’t want to go through the whole thing, so I’m like, oh, I’ll just have you do it.

Right. Even just something like that, right? Like, ugh. Eventually, it’s not even gonna be like human actors running funds. It’s gonna be ais that run collections of other ais which make and build companies. The question is, is, is, is what happens to the rest of humanity when that happens? Right.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

I, [00:26:00] I don’t know. I mean, I think it’s clever. I mean, I also like, maybe this is just a survival strategy. I will say that like. The parents I know who have made big families work. I don’t know of any that are like doing, committing ‘cause this is technically welfare fraud, what I’m describing in, in most cases.

I don’t, I don’t actually think what the, the second dude is doing is

Malcolm Collins: No, no. The guy who’s keeping kids. I don’t think that’s Welfare fraud is, no, that’s not welfare fraud

Simone Collins: especially. Yeah. But like in these other cases of like the, the multiple wives, it’s welfare fraud. And if you and I were to like divorce and, and try to get me to like, I think that’s welfare fraud.

However I will say that the, the families that have a lot of kids that I know that, that are doing it really well. Are extremely savvy about government assistance systems and they max out as many benefits as they can get. And it’s, it’s hard for me to wrap my head around it because, like [00:27:00] I grew up with the mindset of like, even at times where I had qualified for like food stamps or something, or unemployment I, I didn’t.

Take it because I knew that I, you know, had enough savings where I, I could make it by. Like, if I didn’t need it, I wasn’t gonna take it. And now I feel like, am I a chump for not doing that? And like, it, would it not be better if we all just went hard in on this system just to break it? I don’t know.

I, I feel

Malcolm Collins: confused by that. You’re gonna need systems like this, like the world of AI is gonna change everything about what it means to work, about what it means to expect to earn your own income. I just, I think, and my fa the fans can push back on me on this, but I, I do notand how in 20 years from now we have anything like our existing global economy.

Mm.

Now what that looks like in terms of individuals, jobs, everything like that is gonna differ a lot between countries. The countries that have AI in the [00:28:00] countries that don’t get outta the countries that don’t. Right?

Yeah.

Get outta Europe. Get out of Europe. Run. Run, run. And yeah. Well, and this, this brings me to, you know, where I like if I’m trying to predict the future of the global economy and everything like that and where everything’s going.

And it’s, it’s one of these things where even for like us looking for a job. You know, my brother’s like, get a normal job, and I’m like, but it’ll be gone in like a month. Like everyone I know in normal jobs is afraid of losing them because of ai. Right? Like, you, you see this in the numbers, right?

Like, I don’t know. I mean, I, I, I do think that what they did is bad for their generation, but that’s, you know, that that’s the last generation’s rules. And if you always. There were so many things that you know, my parents told me that just didn’t work for my generation, and they sounded wildly naive telling me it when they were like, well just, you know, go to an office and say you won’t leave until they hire you.

Right. You know, like that’s something that, that parents used to tell kids. Like in all seriousness, [00:29:00] show them chutzpah, you know, knock on the doors.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And, and, and I think you telling a kid, well, you know, you gotta go out and get a job, right. Go go to a top college and get a job. And they’ll say, oh, what is that?

Like an Uber thing? Except Uber won’t exist. ‘cause it’ll all be self-driving cars. Right? Like, is that a,

Simone Collins: well, now what’s so crazy too, and what, what makes so many younger people incredibly angry is that after the pandemic, something broke, at least in American job markets. And so many of the job postings are not even for real jobs, they’re ghost jobs that businesses maintain just to.

Show certain optics, collect data et cetera. Like, but there’s zero intention to hire. So you could spend a lot of time applying for a job and it will go absolutely nowhere. Which is also just such a.

Malcolm Collins: Well, in a lot of industries, people have just stopped doing their work. As you pointed out, you were pointing this out about like the [00:30:00] publishing industry.

It almost seems like nobody is working anymore. Like they’re just not editing their, they’re not

Simone Collins: answering their emails, they’re not doing their jobs. Yeah. It’s like they, they kind of left the office and maybe they’re still receiving a salary, but like low key. They’re just not there anymore. But no one, it’s one of those things again, we’re like, no one’s checking, and I think this is one of those things, maybe we’re kind of transitioning from a high trust society to a low trust society and people haven’t yet.

Uniformly realized that. And so there’s a lot of, everyone is expecting that someone has it. Like, I thought you had it. No, I thought you had it. Like everyone thinks that someone else is doing their job, meanwhile, no one is doing their job. And things are falling apart, but it actually takes a surprisingly long time for people to figure that out.

As is indicated by the similarly daycare fraud, like this has been going on for a very long time, but. No one checks these things. ‘cause everyone’s like, I don’t know. That’s not my job. That’s must be someone else’s job. My job is to process the [00:31:00] application. My job is to see, oh, this checkbox was met. Okay, go for it.

Like I did my job, my job wasn’t to drive over there. And like even if like, you know, you’re government employee and you drive by. And, and this actually came up with the with the Muslim like is Islamic marriage polygamist issue is in, when this started, it has at various times bubbled up on X and people have had discussion of it.

And when online discussions of this trend upward, inevitably a bunch of government workers come on and they’re like. Yep. Like I, I knowingly process payments to or am aware of like this and this and this case where these people are receiving this much in benefits and I know that they don’t need them.

Like I’ve driven by their house and I’ve like done, but like they, they don’t have the authority or, and there is no pathway for them to effectively report and have these things dealt with because we live in a society and these systems were set up without. [00:32:00] The expectation of this kind of exploitation,

Malcolm Collins: and this is why, as bad as universal basic income is, and you can see our videos on it in terms of the effects it has on people.

I just do not, it, it’s better than this and I don’t see any other pathway.

Simone Collins: Well, that’s, yeah. We were thinking about it’s better than

Malcolm Collins: most. Fraud gets most money.

Simone Collins: Yes, because we, we were thinking about doing a Basecamp episode on like America. Where like, American socialism sucks extra hard because it is a socialist country, but like only for people who cheat, like only for people who are extremely poor and for people who cheat and then everyone else is screwed and like, it would be actually so much better in many ways.

It just, it was just for everyone because then, then you’re not just rewarding this huge swath of bad actors and you know, the money isn’t being wasted in the same way. And that it is, it is very frustrating. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I mean, I think it’s, it’s, it’s frustrating as it is. I think these systems just need to be turned off.

We just [00:33:00] gotta, we’ve got to overhaul around a UBI system. I just don’t, don’t think that any of these other, yeah. Okay. Well,

Simone Collins: yeah. So when you say turned off, you say like replaced with, I don’t know, direct cash payments, just something like that. Yeah. Direct replace with direct

Malcolm Collins: cash payments. Just

Simone Collins: put money in the accounts.

I mean, the one thing I worry about then is. What I, for example, I, I, I alluded to earlier, the WIC program that’s Women, infants, and Children. It’s, it’s a program for that. Again, like if you’re a single mother who’s at or near the poverty level or who qualifies through other means, it’s a really effective program, and I like it specifically because unlike with snap, where you can actually see like.

All these TikTok shorts of mothers getting all this like horrible junk food for their kids. WIC only allows you to buy extremely specific food.

Malcolm Collins: I don’t like those programs. Let the parents get bad food for their kids. Let their kids die. I don’t care. I do. I do. Not our kids.

Simone Collins: I do. I do. But WIC is like, you can only buy like.

Two loaves of bread this month. And they must be whole grain. They have to be whole grain. And you can only [00:34:00] buy, it doesn’t

Malcolm Collins: even understand real health stuff. Like we’ve, we, it doesn’t, it doesn’t get the health stuff right. It’s, it’s like, it’s like, you have to have 1% milk for a kids. Like what? No kids should be

Simone Collins: drinking whole.

Well, but I, I think like, maybe there’s, I keep in mind there’s a correlation between poverty and obesity, so they don’t wanna allow parents to buy whole milk because. Whole,

Malcolm Collins: oh, it burns my brain. It No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. These programs are ridiculous. And the way you make this work with children is you just make it based on the number of people.

Right. And your UBI goes to whoever’s caring for you up to a certain age. Mm-hmm. And that way you do still get the assistance if you have kids.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I, yeah. I don’t know. Or like if, if there’s a like come some kind of like refugee program where like kids can run away to like a safe house if their parents suck. The problem is and, and pe [00:35:00] like, I don’t know. I like, I, we, we’ve alluded to this in past, like, oh, well, what if the state raises children?

And then people clap back at us and they’re like, okay, Romanian orphan orphanages. And like China had orphanages and they were terrible, but like, this was all for like unwanted abandoned children. These were underfunded programs. What if the state actually like, did. An exceptionally good program, you know, where like it actually got a lot of investment and it was good and decent.

I mean, but then like all the child parents come in and they’re like, no, a child

has to be raised by a mother and a father who are emotionally invested in it. And if you aren’t emotionally invested in a child, you won’t do a good idea. But I feel like maybe I, I can, I

Malcolm Collins: disagree with that. I strongly disagree with that.

This is this, this whole thing of kids need to be, I didn’t live with my family after the age of 13 and I did not care. It is when, when people live without parental love and it ends up messing them up, it’s because they are weak frankly, and they’re looking to blame things. I know lots of messed up people who had parents and [00:36:00] lots of non messed up people who didn’t have parents.

Parents. I’m just

Simone Collins: saying I want, I want children to have an option in a UBI world where like. Mommy buys meth with all of her money.

Malcolm Collins: You know what I mean? And they get, they give the kid to somebody else. Well, think about it this way. No. And the kid

Simone Collins: has, can run to somewhere else or gets saved. I don’t know.

I, I just like, I, you know, I can’t deal with these stories of kids getting hurt and like, I, I, I literally had to, I mean, I should have done it anyway, but I’ve quit scrolling. Like passive scrolling on any platform because too many times now, like I scroll and it’s like, oh, like infant killed like 2-year-old found dead.

And, and, and I’m like, I can’t, like then like the next two days, I, I’m up crying all night ‘cause I can’t deal, like I, I literally can’t deal. So I need like a solution that ends this. No more hurting children. No more hurting children. No, [00:37:00] no.

Malcolm Collins: So

fix it. Fix it, guys. Civilization, fix it. You guys in the comments can let us know what you think the solution is to all this.

You know, you know me, I wanna get the extra wives. I, I, I’ll be able to breed faster, Simone. We need it. This is how we get more kids in the house. Kid, kid, kid, kid, kid. You’ll have so many kids.

Simone Collins: I’m actually outlining. An episode on the Men Spamming Kids people who donate sperm, or people like Pavel Ov who have offered free IVF to women who want to use his genetic material.

And I am going to be making an argument against, against that particular tactic, like not,

Malcolm Collins: well, it’s not a heavy, but it’s not, it’s not a bad thing like I offer. You know, if, if somebody wants to use my genetic material, I offer that. Right? Like, no, I mean, I

Simone Collins: think donating to someone who asks you or who’s like, Hey, i’d, I’d appreciate that.

[00:38:00] Like, I think that makes sense. Keep trying to

Malcolm Collins: spam it instead of building a, a family and legacy is in, usually not. Yeah. I

Simone Collins: think men who are just, well, no, I think. It is absolutely fantastic to donate an egg or a sperm or embryos to people who, who want them from you, but men who think it’s a massive win to just spam children I mean, I’m gonna, like, I, I’m gonna give a good effort to try to convince myself that I’m wrong and to steal man this, but I cannot think of a single great historical figure or impactful historical figure.

Who came from a harem, who came from a man who spammed children. I just don’t think that you, you’re, you’re doing a lot own genetics to favor.

Malcolm Collins: There’s a big difference between families and, you know.

Simone Collins: Yeah, no, I like, I’m all four, like having 14 kids, whatever. But like in your household with your culture, raise them.

Invest in them. [00:39:00] But like when, when you are just flying around the world to donate sperm to girls online who are like, yeah, that sounds good. Like, I don’t, I don’t think that’s the win that people think it’s or, or when you’re like paying to have a bunch of babies born and then having just staff raise them.

I, I, again, don’t think that’s the same. So, yeah. But anyway, we’ll discuss that in the other episode. I need to, it’s just taken me a while to get to it because Archive is, is not loading the Wall Street Journal articles that I really wanna include in my research. So I can’t read the articles and

Malcolm Collins: I’m really angry about that.

I’m sorry, Simone, you need to know more about welfare fraud. You

Simone Collins: mean about circumventing,

Malcolm Collins: paywalls. Oh no, I meant that’s what the articles were. I mean, circumvented paper. No, the articles

Simone Collins: are about the men’s spamming kids. Oh.

Malcolm Collins: Just

Simone Collins: use AI to do that, to ask what the articles are [00:40:00] about. Yeah. I always worry that they’re, they’re gonna hallucinate.

I wanna see the articles.

Malcolm Collins: Just say, don’t hallucinate. Can you give me the full text of this article? Oh,

Simone Collins: oh. They do that

Malcolm Collins: and sometimes they can, yeah.

Simone Collins: Okay. Well then I will try that. Thank you. And thank you for sharing that tip with our audience. Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: That is, I love Simonon are a great wife. What are we doing for dinner tonight?

Simone Collins: So I can do more Burmese min chicken pasta bolognese. Well, I mean, not bolognese, but like pesto pasta with Burmese mint chicken meat sauce, essentially.

Malcolm Collins: Did we have that left? Like it’s gonna be less?

Simone Collins: No. So I mean, I’m, I would do a whole new batch, so we have enough pesto left to do that. I have the post stuff from yesterday.

Want,

Malcolm Collins: I want a steak.

Simone Collins: Okay. Instead you want steak with chives and

Malcolm Collins: a, a double order of steak with lots of chives and peppers.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. And let me know when we’re, we’re frying it up. ‘cause I’ll throw in some miso paste and stuff like that to make the sauce interesting.

Simone Collins: Oh, you [00:41:00] wanna make the sauce?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Well, I’ll just, I’ll just make a, a twist on like a Mongolian sauce or something,

Simone Collins: but you’ll, you’ll make the sauce yourself. So all I have to do is prep the veg.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, prep a BA sauce ‘cause I don’t know how to do that.

Simone Collins: I don’t either. Just ask perplexity,

Malcolm Collins: but sure, I’ll do that and then you’ll add to it.

So I’m not unreasonable. I’m a very, very easy husband to be married to just make me gourmet restaurant meals each night while the children are. Mm. Attacking and while bathing the children and changing the diapers and,

Simone Collins: no, I love you. You’re amazing. You always go above and beyond. The kids always get so sad when they discover it’s not a day when they spend the whole day afternoon with you while you work climbing over you, while you attempt to vibe

Malcolm Collins: code.

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, not attempts successfully. Vibe code.

Malcolm Collins: He jumps on me. He doesn’t climb over me. He does the hot

Simone Collins: jump. Well, Andy climbs

Malcolm Collins: over you, Tostan and, and Octavian jump [00:42:00] on you. A Titan, especially

likes jumping on me.

Well, it’s her thing. She’s a titan. She’s

a shark princess. She’s the shark. What does a

shark princess do but jump on people?

One day she’ll be a shark. That’s what she said. Yeah. And then, and then I will eat you. Mommy. Do not eat me titan. Okay. I won’t. Mommy.

Oh my God. The clip that I used at the end of the episode that I ran today Titan was so sweet. Oh, talking about creaky man. Yeah. Who says you go? Who says darn s**t?

Titan says, darn it. Darn it. Oh. Dang it.

Simone Collins: Dang it.

Malcolm Collins: Dang it. Dang it. And then she goes, and the creaky man and the creaky man lives in a cave that’s a blue and pink, because those are titans, no pink and purple, which are Titan’s favorite colors, which are but maybe a little blue. Maybe a little blue. Her monsters have to live in caves that are her favorite colors.

Very spooky, but it’s pink and purple. [00:43:00] But creaky man is good ‘cause it sounds like a real monster, creaky

man. Totally sounds like. The new song

is a

Simone Collins: real monster. Maybe she saw it somewhere. Well, wait. People on X pointed out that Helicopter, helicopter came from this like, obscure clip of what I think was, what was that thing where you would like get randomly matched with people and it’s Kermit the Frog.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it’s, it’s a thing.

Simone Collins: I think helicopter is a reference to, kermit helicoptering something at the end of the clip. If you want, if you know what I need helicopter, helicopter, helicopter

Malcolm Collins: go. And that’s what our kids see. And

so that is the catchphrase of our household and it is in reference to he ker the frog.

Whoa. Random. Yeah, I think that’s just too perfect. It’s too perfect. I, I’m proud if that is actually where Helicopter Helicopter came from.

Hey, none of our kids have gotten into sex scandals yet. That’s gonna be hard. All, all the, the families do the things and then their [00:44:00] kids get into sex scandals.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I wonder.

Yeah, actually a lot of people, like on, on X were also like, don’t, don’t include your photos and your, or sorry, your, your kids and your videos like this never goes well. Every time there’s a kid influencer and I’m like, okay, sorry. Who is the hero of the hour? Who is getting nothing but love? Who is getting nothing but adoration right now?

Malcolm Collins: I have no idea. The

Simone Collins: kid doing the Somali daycare fraud videos. Oh yeah, he’s cool. Who? Who’s, who does the. His mom. Really? His mom. Yes, yes, yes. And of course people are concerned trolling him too. Like, oh, just wait on like the sex scandal’s gonna come out. And he is like, literally there was this interview clip of him and he is like, I don’t like, they’re up for disappointment.

I’m Mormon. I don’t drink. I’m a virgin. Like, I dunno what you expect. You’re gonna find, like this is gonna be hard and like all these people just [00:45:00] want to believe that young people involved in content creation are somehow gonna be ruined for life. And of course like it’s ‘cause they’re weird pearl clusters.

They’re weird. There are tons of kids who are making very good money. Making just cute little play videos. Like what’s his, like whatever’s world. I I mean, maybe his life

Malcolm Collins: is

Simone Collins: wrong. No, no, no, no.

Malcolm Collins: The the thing is, is that these people are weird pearl clutches who complain about everything, and it’s just who they are.

I’m sorry

Simone Collins: if you’re also a base camper and you like our podcast, we just disagree with you on this. But that’s the thing is base campers disagree. No, I, I think it’s so

Malcolm Collins: lame. It’s so la. Every kid wants to be an influencer these days. Like what are like, or almost every kid does, right?

Simone Collins: Really? Because you have like a screwed up family like.

I, I, most of the cases of influencer, like kid influencers who are screwed up, the screwed up element of them is ‘cause they have like a narcissistic parent or like, they’re like, whether or not there was gonna be YouTube involved. They were gonna have a screwed up life. Like, I don’t wanna, yeah. So I think

Malcolm Collins: that there’s, there’s two things where you can have [00:46:00] problems with this if the, the kids are the core of the content, right?

Because then you need the kids to behave in specific ways and do certain things, and you’re creating a weird relationship between you and your kids. ‘cause the kids are the content itself. And I think

Simone Collins: that, no, that’s where, where parenting is the core of the content because that’s when you have the parents like.

Making a video about like, well, our daughter just had her first period and I’m going to the store to buy her tampons and like, girl. Yeah. Like that can

Malcolm Collins: cause problems for kids, obviously, but that’s not like, that’s

Simone Collins: Yeah. I, I, I tell, yeah, I totally just putting kids on

Malcolm Collins: Instagram, that’s not, you know, and the other one where it can cause a problem is when it’s specifically because you’re trying to do something that is inappropriate with, like, obviously there was a case recently of what’s her face who came of age

Speaker 2: . All y’all broke haters. Y’all aint doing it like lilt. This is why all y’all hate me. This cost me 200,000 rapping, lilt money away.

Malcolm Collins: and had a, like, sold out for her 18th birthday.

Oh. The

OnlyFans thing.

With the, the girl who is like [00:47:00] younger and is like, I’m

all about the money. And so Yeah. The Asian

Simone Collins: girl.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Whatever her name is.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. No, there, there are absolutely bad instances. And there, there are certain, like, for, for example, like we know from experience that like just, just having a certain number of subscribers or views isn’t gonna translate immediately to money.

What translates to money, certain types of contents, which makes like, for example, the like Sephora influencer kids. I understand why their parents got them into that because that’s where the sponsorships are. Like these makeup companies reaching out to them. ‘cause they make a lot of money from, you know, other kids who are intent driven consumers watching that content and wanting to buy something.

So that leads to lucrative sponsorships. And then, you know, it, it ends up, you end up with these kids who are now like screwed up with, you know, body image issues or whatever. Although I feel like that can be easily, like, I don’t, I don’t know how much body image issues necessarily even correlate with bad outcomes in life.

Like, I’m watching a documentary the old documentary Gossip on Rupert Murdoch and his publications and page [00:48:00] six, and this one gossip columnist named Cindy and her mother. Like she was born in 1935. She was 90 when the documentary was made. Her mother was like screwed up. Like she gave her her, her teenage daughter a nose job in like the, the, the forties, right?

Like, this is before like nose jobs were highly sophisticated. She had her hairline raised because Oh my god. She didn’t like, yeah. And she like sent her to dance classes, like whatever. ‘cause she thought she was an ugly girl and she just wanted her to be beautiful and like, she like was very controlling.

But this woman. Ended up becoming like one of the most prolific and successful gossip columnists. Can, can you

Malcolm Collins: tell when a nose is attractive or unattractive? I’ve, no. I literally can’t tell. No. Well, you

Simone Collins: and I are both broadly face blind and people thought I was like trying to do this, like own or troll in that episode where you were like, which group of women is more attractive when I’m like, I don’t know, which is the more like.

Because you’re like, you can tell, which is the more at attract, and I couldn’t tell which is more attractive. No, a lot of people love

Malcolm Collins: that you couldn’t [00:49:00] tell because they, they go, they’re all ugly to me too, because, I don’t know, there’s this internet thing where a guy think they look really cool by pretending normal looking women are unattractive.

And it, it’s, it’s, it’s not a flex. It, it’s weird. It’s silly.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I don’t know. Like, I, I, I, I can, I can I think I can try to ob like look for facial symmetry and signs of health, that that is what attractiveness is, right.

Malcolm Collins: I think, yeah. Well, for me it’s mostly just being appropriately the appropriate weight.

Like that’s a 95% of attractiveness for guys. It’s just I think

Simone Collins: No, no, no, no. When fundamentally, what you blew my mind about was, especially for, for

Malcolm Collins: and

Simone Collins: young for women. Young, young, young, young, young. That’s like the only thing that matters is like how young you look.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, that’s your fertility window, right?

Simone Collins: No, it makes, it makes evolutionary sense.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, anyway, I’m

Simone Collins: going to get dinner started. I love you very much and life is [00:50:00] good.

Malcolm Collins: Have a good one. You

Simone Collins: too.

Malcolm Collins: Hitting end hit.

Speaker 4: Wait, what happened? Octa, what, what is up there? Ma? Our, Chris, our SS mama. That Christmas, la, he mom put him right there.

Speaker 5: I wanna, so you get to choose a special treat because you, you found the Christmas llama. I can’t, I can’t believe I found a Christmas llama. He’s so magical. Is he too? He watches you, you know. Oh yeah. He sees when you do naughty thing. Yeah, I’ll put it in somewhere else. Oh, he’s gonna hide again. Yeah, he’s gonna hide again, and then you’ll find him.

Speaker 4: You get a special, can I eat it now? Yeah, you can. Yes.

Speaker 5: This is [00:51:00] so fun. It actually is magical. He actually is. Yeah. How can you tell. ‘cause he moved up there. Which kind of ass? I mean, come on man. I didn’t know. I didn’t know he moved. I love, I love, this is like a very satisfy. How do our kids not curse?

I wanna get get, I gotta get the scarf out. Let’s get the presents out.

In this explosive episode, Malcolm and Simone Collins react to one of the most stunning geopolitical events of 2026: President Trump’s daring operation to remove Nicolás Maduro from power in Venezuela — without a single U.S. casualty.

We dive deep into why this was a masterclass in pragmatic, America-First foreign policy: promoting Maduro’s own vice president to avoid chaos, securing massive U.S. oil investments, and sending a chilling message to dictators worldwide. We explore the massive celebrations across Venezuelan and Latin American communities, the furious (and often astroturfed) backlash from the global left, the Pope’s controversial stance, and why this may have permanently shifted Latino voters toward Republicans.

From hilarious memes and Russian cope to the terrifying implications for Kim Jong-un, Cuba, and beyond — this is the full breakdown of how Trump just changed the world... again.

If you love bold foreign policy analysis, pronatalism, cultural commentary, and unfiltered takes, subscribe and join the conversation!

Episode Transcript:Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] the even more terrifying thing about this, if you are say Kim Jong-un or something right now is. Who Trump put in power after this, that it was his second in command. Yeah. Because if you are Kim Jong-Un or something like that, you’re gonna be like America. You’re not gonna like, just take me out.

Like you wouldn’t get what you want, then you wouldn’t get a full regime change, you know? And then Trump needs to be like, no, no, no, no. Is there anyone else in this country with a lot of power that would like to see you gone? Because we can give them your job. What about that guy over there? He’s wearing a lot of medals and he is like, well, he’s been my most loyal supporter for X many.

Mm-hmm. But if you weren’t there anymore and he had everything you have now, and that’s the most terrifying thing to any actual dictator in a negotiation. Oh

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Trump not saying. Oh, we’re gonna replace your government with a capitalist government. [00:01:00] It’s who’s the next most powerful person in the room?

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. Today is a difficult day to be an American.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: there is news that Trump built a time machine, had someone go back in time and kidnap Hitler. Europe is in arms. They are furious. The left apoplectic. How dare he do this to an upstanding German citizen?

Simone Collins: The nerve, the Geneva conventions.

Malcolm Collins: Exactly.

Speaker 2: I just got three things to say. God bless our troops. God bless America, [00:02:00] and.

Okay. Absolutely insane. Follow up to this. So every day before I post my episode, I post it into an AI to see what it thinks of the episode and the AI that I put it into is grok, which has the ability to search the internet. In this time, the AI assumed I was discussing a fictional event. It says this transcript,

it’s reacting in real time to a completely fictional alternate history scenario. Donald Trump in early 2026. Authorizes a lightning fast delta force raid that captures Nicholas Maduro alive with zero US casualties. Then deliberately installs Maduro’s Vice President Delcy Rodriguez as the leader instead of the opposition.

Maria Corona Machata. , And , it’s so insane. It’s so insane. It assumes, . The [00:03:00] Malcolm goes hard on the, , Pope Vatican in this fictional world for sighting was Maduro out of reflective anti-Americanism? , even though the entire premise is fabricated as of January 20, 26, Maduro is still in power.

No US raid has occurred. , What I love here is it couldn’t even imagine. It didn’t even think to look. Did this happen? Did this happen? And when I called it out on this, it goes in my defense events like a US president authorizing a zero casualty delta force rate to snatch a foreign leader alive.

Sounds like something out of a Tom Conci novel or high concept podcast thought experiment. Especially given the geopolitical sensitivities and historic , , precedents. It’s the kind of bold, unilateral action that feels too unbelievable without hard confirmation. So my initial presumption lead towards it being hypothetical or satirical.

Oh my God. Oh my God.

Malcolm Collins: No, this has been really interesting and I think that this [00:04:00] event is going to push a lot of the LA larger Latin American community, which had largely been pushed against Trump due to ICE raids. Which, you know, a lot of them had somebody who they knew who’s been affected by them. And you know, you had more than 50% of Latin American men vote for Trump in the last election cycle.

Unfortunately, I think it just like one fell swoop. The left might be handing them Latin Americans back as a voting block, because just as you know, you might say, well, a lot of Latin Americans know somebody who had their lives upturned by ice raids. Pretty much every Latin American also knows somebody who had their life destroyed by Maduro.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like even if you are not Venezuelan, for example, we lived in Peru and then we would get grocery deliveries from a. Venezuelan refugees. We would take Uber rides from Venezuelan refugees and we would hear their stories. We had job applicants who were Venezuelan refugees, like we were surrounded by it.

Well, so

Malcolm Collins: I think that this is [00:05:00] what people miss and I wanna, I wanna talk about this, right? Yeah. ‘cause this is not a local to Venezuelan issue. No, we didn’t. Piss off Venezuelan refugees. When you try to stand Maduro, the u the American left. And this shows like when, when Zora Ani is doing this, when you know any, any of these figures are doing this, the pope is doing this, right?

Mm-hmm. It just shows me that these people like genuinely are completely disconnected from the Latin American community. Or they would know how verboten it is. To take a, this stance and I’ll explain to our viewers why. Because if you’re not really in with the Latin American community, you might not know why every Latin America or, or a huge chunk of the Latin American community is extremely anti medora.

Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: So.

Malcolm Collins: You know how in the United States we’ve been complaining about that giant immigrant wave that’s causing us all of those problems? Oh, so bad, so terrible. The i, the Venezuelan refugee wave drugs that are potentially being made in Venezuela now, no. The [00:06:00] drugs are actually made more distributed.

I don’t think that’s a good reason for doing this. There’s a lot of trick made in Colombian stuff too, but of the Venezuelan, and keep in mind, a third of Venezuela. Left their country as refugees of that third, only 14% went to the United States. 85% went to much smaller surrounding Latin American countries.

Hmm. Latin America has been collectively, especially people from South America, have been living alongside these Venezuelan refugees for a very long time.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Moreover than that. The way that they relate to these refugees is not the way America relates to these refugees. So Latin America more broadly especially South America, has been a bit of a game of musical chairs for the past few decades.

One country’s economy would collapse. They’d get a dictator. They’d have a huge refugee population that would go live in another country. [00:07:00] Now, when Peru’s economy crashed and when Columbia’s economy crashed, you know who was doing well during those periods? Oh, Venezuela. So a lot of them went to live in Venezuela, and Venezuela was very good to them during that period, or at least treated them with a degree of hospitality.

So when Venezuela’s economy crashed these countries and the, the huge refugee wage started coming in, they were like, this causes some problems for us, but they were there when we needed it. We have to be there when they need it.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Right.

Malcolm Collins: This is very different from the situation we’re dealing with the United States now.

They all ended up hating Venezuelan refugees eventually. They overstayed their welcome. It was a longer crash than they expected, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But it meant that they got to know these people. And when I say know these people, as Simone said, we lived in Peru. We have a, also a huge Latin American audience.

Our last company was entirely staffed with Latin Americans [00:08:00] other than us. Our new company, our fab reality fabricator, the AI chat engine. Everyone who works on it other than us is Latin American with one of them being Venezuelan, by the way, living in Venezuela right now. Right. Like I’m talking to him about this and he’s like, oh yeah, you know, I had family members who were killed by the regime.

Stuff like that. Oh my gosh. I mean, most people have we’ll, we’ll get into like the death numbers, but they were killing you know, you, I think it was well over a hundred people a day at, at, at certain points. They, it was, they were griping children. Like it was terrible. They had a, a systemic like sex violence thing where they would take women and imprison them and then they’d have to trade sex for food in the prison system.

Oh,

Simone Collins: Oh. You

Malcolm Collins: regime was genuinely horrifying. Okay. I

Simone Collins: didn’t know about that. I, yeah, I mean, I just, I mean, ‘cause I just worked with like the, the, the travel agencies and the airlines and the payment processors that we worked with in Venezuela, and they were just like outta the powers out again. Like, I just thought it was just terrible infrastructure.

The [00:09:00] government didn’t work anymore. But you’re this, you’ve seen the videos

Malcolm Collins: of the giant armored vans running over people on the street.

Simone Collins: No.

Malcolm Collins: What.

I was looking for videos of this to post, and then I realized they were all going to get this video flagged and taken down, so you don’t want to see it anyway.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so they did a protest and they just had these giant armored tank things run through giant crowds of protestors fast, like driving through them over and over again.

Simone Collins: Oh, just kind of mowing them down? Just, yeah,

Malcolm Collins: that was a, they, they, they, yeah. No, that was really, really horrifying. And if you Oh gosh. Spoke against them, you’d be arrested. Your family. Yeah. And kids were arrested too. A lot of children were arrested.

Speaker 5: Venezuela and Venezuela, people are criticizing Trump for what he did in Venezuela.

Minor were tortured. Girls were forced to prostitute themselves in prisons just to get food. Where were all of you then? Where were all of you liberals? Where were all of you? Where were all of you? You said nothing. You did nothing. But now you suddenly care about international [00:10:00] law.

I mean, now you all talk about human rights. Maduro didn’t lead Venezuela. He kidnapped an entire country., We’re thankful. You can divide politics all you want, but don’t tell Venezuelans. Do not tell Venezuelans how to feel about being free from dictatorship.

Malcolm Collins: So really horrifying. Really horrifying. We’re gonna get to all of that.

We’re gonna get to all that. But what I wanted to point out here is we’re not speaking of this as people who like, don’t know what we’re talking about. We used to split our time between Miami and Peru. Right. So we’ve lived in the environments where these communities are. Well, and

Simone Collins: specifically we didn’t even live in Miami.

We lived in Doral, also known as Doral. Zu, yeah. It was like the Venezuelan contingent of the Miami area,

Malcolm Collins: our previous companies. Dominant market. We were actually like the dominant travel provider in Venezuela. We would regularly have employees do trips to Venezuela and meet with all the people that we had in Venezuela.

Like it was like we were really connected with Venezuela. Like Venezuela was [00:11:00] our in the Venezuela community was like our. Bread and butter for years, right? If you look at the, the, the images that you’re seeing now of these giant crowds cheering, if you, you, you see this in Venezuela. You see this in Times Square.

You see this in Miami, you see this in New York, you see this in Argent, you see this in Spain, in Madrid. This makes sense for these communities. But what I wanna talk about. Before I go into all the memes, before I go into all the, the hilariousness about this, ‘cause there is a lot of hilariousness about this, is I wanna talk about the thing that you’re probably not getting as much, which is what’s happening now, what’s gonna happen next for the country what Trump seems to be signaling so.

What Trump has signaled is that he wants Maduro’s, former second in command. I don’t know if you’re staying on top of this, Simone trusted vice, the

Simone Collins: vice, the female vice president.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Hardcore socialist to take over and run things. Not Nobel Prize lady and Nobel Prize lady is shocked about this.

Well,

Simone Collins: Marco Rubio’s answer to that was like, well, I don’t, she’s out of the country like these, the people that [00:12:00] we really like just aren’t in Venezuela right now. Was his answer If memory serves well, so I think that I don’t, I mean, I don’t think that’s like a, a feasible answer. They can just fly her in, but.

Malcolm Collins: So I wanna talk about why he made this decision from my perspective and the intelligence of this decision.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: I think it was an incredibly mature is I guess the word that, that, that best fits this decision. Mature and pragmatic. So right now. Head of Venezuela is taken out, right? You have the rest of the government continuing to operate, right?

Mm-hmm. So suppose Trump comes in and he says, we are gonna replace the candidate, the top person with somebody who has dedicated their entire life to rooting all of you out of. Right. Making sure all of you lose your jobs, lose your positions of power, lose your military commands when you put it

Simone Collins: that way,

Malcolm Collins: free all of the dissonances who have been against you from the prison camps and [00:13:00] everything like that.

Mm-hmm. How are people gonna react to this No serious. Like what, what’s gonna happen? What’s gonna happen? I’ll tell you what happens. Mm-hmm. The existing military says, oh, well we need to resist this. We maybe even need to counterstrike the United States. You know, ship fleet. We need to abduct American civilians potentially to teach America a lesson.

Mm-hmm. We need to you know, all of that. Right. Like it’s, it’s, it’s a bad situation. Right. Well, and even,

Simone Collins: even independent of the military, the Trump administration knows all too well how hard it is to govern with an antagonistic deep state. So. Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and, and, and you, what if you try to put up a, a, you know, so you, you have that whole situation.

Yes. Worse, what you could have is, suppose he just takes out Maduro and he doesn’t say who he wants to run the country, and he sort of leaves it up for grads. Maybe you people have a revolution, maybe you don’t have a revolution. Right. Or, or worse, he’s like, we would like this other lady, Nobel prize lady.

But we’re not gonna put her in a position to power [00:14:00] ourselves. We’re not gonna do a military occupation of Venezuela, which I don’t think anyone in America wants, right? No. So then what do you have? You have a revolution in the country, right? I And, and, and revolutions. Nobody wants a revolution, right? I don’t care how bad an existing regime is.

Revolution is almost always worse for the everyday person. Totally. Yeah. And people are going to die en mass in a revolution. It’s gonna be horrible. Right. No, as suppose this other thing happened. Now, this lady had already gone on being like, oh, it was a horrible Amir and aggression. She said a lot of bad things about Trump after this.

But Trump said when he made this, that he’s had decisions, suppose her and the, you know, democracy lady, Nobel Prize lady. And he said that this lady has more friends in positions of power, which is true, and she has more supporters in the country right now, of course, which may not be true. But I really think this is what he meant.

If you, if you peel back the reality of it, this [00:15:00] lady is a cold political operator who’s been doing this for a long time. Other lady is a sky high idealist, right? Who wants, a, a, a beautiful, wealthy, you know, free everything future for her country. And those people don’t generally make the best decisions in positions of power.

Mm-hmm. Whereas the ruthless pragmatists do. Now the second thing I’m gonna note here, it’s a lot of people have noted it seemed oddly easy for Trump to capture Maduro, right? Like, we didn’t lose any military equipment. We didn’t lose any troopers. Russian bots are seizing over this ‘cause this is what they wanted to do in Ukraine.

One was saying like, oh, you know, it’s clearly they had help from the inside. You know this, this isn’t a big thing to be proud of. And then everyone underneath him was like, that’s what you tried to do. You just. Failed at it. Yeah. Right. Like, that’s how you do this when you’re doing this. Right. But I think that we have some idea of who that help may have been this [00:16:00] whole Trump saying, oh, this lady’s lovely.

I’ve talked a lot with her. Why is Trump talked so much this lady? Oh. And then this lady immediately being like, this was horrible. How could the United States do this? Are you guys gonna do anything in retaliation? No, actually, we’re signing a bunch of oil deals with them now. I, I think, I know, I think everyone knows Nice who may have been our mole operating this.

I think we may have had many a mole in this operation, but I think we know who one of them was. And that’s how you do this. That’s how you do a correct regime change. Yeah. You go to someone like her and you go, look, and I was, I was talking with the you know, VIPs because we do our meet and greet and everything about this, and I go look, and I basically predicted where this was gonna go.

Right. I, I thought they tried to, at least for Optus, get the know all price lady more involved. But I said, really most of what they’re going to do is try to keep the existing government structure in place as much as possible. Mm-hmm. And the reason they’re going to do that is because then people don’t have a reason to fight back.

But even more these existing government people can be like. Yeah, I [00:17:00] mean, it’s bad that you took Maduro and you violated our sovereignty and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But. You know, it is true that he made a number of miscalculations, and I think I can probably do things a bit better and it’s gonna be much, much easier with all that American oil money coming in, because if you don’t know why Venezuela was so poor, it was.

Two reasons. The biggest reason was not the sanctions. It was that their oil plants didn’t function. There’s tons of places in the world that we sanctioned but still managed to sell their oil, like Russia. The reason why Venezuela couldn’t do it is because they instead of investing in repairing the oil facilities that they privatized, which they needed to do repair, upgrade, repair, upgrade, they just always steal and grift that money.

That was what the government did and the repairs never happened. And now it’s at like. 2.1% capacity or you mean

Simone Collins: nationalized, right? Not privatized. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: sorry, nationalized. It’s at like 1.5% is capacity or something like that. I think it, it might even be like [00:18:00] 0.5%. Like basically none of the rigs even work anymore.

Oh my gosh.

And so, we’re sending in our oil companies now, which Trump has already talked about. To invest billions into the country, right? Like American companies. Now, this isn’t gonna cost America anything. ‘cause now these companies are worth more, right? Mm-hmm. Like they’re investing because it increases their valuation and their American companies, which is fantastic.

It’s a virtuous cycle, right? And then all of these existing political operators get to say, Hey, look at how much better I’ve made your life since Maduro left. Like, look at how much better things are, right? We’ll, we’ll maintain some semblance of the socialized system. It just won’t be as extreme as it was so before.

And that’s easy to do now that we have all this money. Now this doesn’t get Trump looking like a big coming in hero. Like I think many people would like, I think many people think he snubbed Nobel prize lady because she got the Nobel Prize and he didn’t. I don’t believe that at all. She don dedicated her Nobel Prize to him.

She spoke very highly of him. She spoke against the community. I think he’s talked to her. He talked to the other lady and he just went with the lady who he thought would lead to [00:19:00] less likelihood of revolt in bloodshed. And I think that that was. Ultimately, if your concern is for the people of Venezuela, he made the right choice.

Yeah, it’ll take longer to heal. A lot of bad people who did bad things will stay in position of power. But if your pure calculation is. I want as few Venezuelans to die as possible, and I want the highest probability of a stable increase in the in, in the, in the region as possible. This was the pragmatic call, and it was a call that required a sacrifice on behalf of Trump.

Now, the next thing that comes after this is really interesting to me is now that we know that we can do this, like mm-hmm. Trump war bop style strategy. We talked about this in our foreign policy video. Now that we know that we can do this. Well, why don’t we just do this to everyone we hate? Right? Like they’re already Cuba was like, well, should Cuba be worried?

And Cuba is like a big problem in Venezuela. ‘cause Cuba basically took [00:20:00] over Venezuela, like Cuban operatives took over all the Venezuela and like intelligence positions, and then a lot of high level positions. So Venezuela was actually sort of a vassal state of Cuba at this point. Right. Really?

Simone Collins: I’d read a like.

I’d read about that a little bit, but honestly, I, I, I purposefully have not read up a much about Venezuela because just, it makes me so depressed after so many years with our business just trying to make things work and dealing with people there, and I’m like, I just don’t wanna, I don’t wanna know anymore.

It’s so bad. It’s so bad. So what was going on? What, why? Well, like was Maduro actively in some kind of collaborative. Project with

Malcolm Collins: Cuba? No, it’s more that Cuba is just slightly more intelligent and had better systems than Venezuela did, and used it to put people in positions of power and milk, Venezuela of all this money.

Okay, so

Simone Collins: you’re basically saying that Cuban operatives were embedded within the Venezuelan government and, and. Making deals that [00:21:00] favored Cuba and, and aligning with Cuba Yes. In ways that were perhaps more advantageous to Cuba than they were to Venezuela.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Venezuela was a milking farm for Cuba. I mean, keep in mind who you’re talking with, Maduro, who was a former, you can’t say the

Simone Collins: word milking farm anymore in our modern society.

Right,

Malcolm Collins: right. After the morning Star and milking farm after. After the incident. Simone, I mean, just keep in mind the two heads of these two countries, right? Uhhuh, you’ve got Maduro, who’s a Buffoonish bus driver before he comes into power or without the one before him. Yeah. And then on the other side you’ve got Fidel Castro who, yeah.

Grew up a, a, an ultra rich kid. Went to all of the best education opportunities, you know, classist much Malcolm. I’m just saying, you know, one’s run by a capitalist who just happened to be in aist. Position? No, just country for all it’s worth. I mean, but anyway, I want to continue with what happens next?

So, Greenland, you’re next, by the way. I love it that Trump was like, well, we really need to focus on Greenland now, and Europe is freaking out. But could we do this in [00:22:00] Columbia? Could we could, there’s, there’s, because they’ve even talked about doing it in Columbia. So if I was gonna be like, where would I do this?

Where would I not do this? Do this in Cuba if we need to, but there’s just not a lot of the reason to do it in Cuba. It’s not really in our financial best interest to do it in Cuba. We can’t really milk Cuba for anything in the way we can milk Venezuela, which has both gold and oil by the way. And.

Cuba’s not an active threat to us anymore, so I just don’t even know if it’s worth it. The main reason to do it to Cuba is for votes to further solidify the Cuban American voting Block which is a large and already right-leaning voting block, and it’s been a wet dream for many of them for many years.

I mean, Rubio is salivating at the chance to do this. But again, that’s not really pro-America, right? Like getting Venezuelan oil with no casualties. That’s pro-America, right? But Cuba, whatever. The other thing that’s interesting about this game, the one you’re

Simone Collins: looking for too, is America First, which was a core element of the Trump administration’s strategic initiatives or a strategic direction when it comes to global policy going [00:23:00] forward.

I have to ask, and of course Trump is being asked about this as well, is, well, how is this American first? Why is this America first? But I do think that a, a big part of the national security strategy that many people weren’t really paying attention to was that. The America First strategy also involved a shift toward interest in the American continent, away from the Middle East, away from, yeah.

Venezuela

Malcolm Collins: is an active threat to the United States. To have a country that hostile to us, that close to us and, and be that big is, is not nice. Like it’s, and, and Russia and China. There’s a famous video of the guy online who’s just like, I love what he is saying. He’s, he is a Venezuelan who’s like, he was talking to a reporter and the reporter is like, well, d you know, America is just here to take all your, your oil. And he goes, what do you think China and Russia were here for? Are Tilos or some like classic Venezuelan edition or Alpos or something? Not familiar.

Speaker 6: que los gringos solo quieren el [00:24:00] petróleo y los gringos solo quieren sus riquezas. O sea, a esas personas. Les pregunto que querían los rusos y los chinos durante tanto tiempo la receta de la arepa .

Malcolm Collins: And, and I thought this is true. I was like, what?

You know, they put a, a murderous psychopath in power. Right. You know? And, and what I also love is Trump didn’t even put like a capitalist in power. He’s like, nah. Yeah, just another. It’s socialist, right? Just keep the

Simone Collins: vp. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That’s, that’s how you, that’s how you do South American cues. You don’t need to put the, the fascist in power every time, you know?

We didn’t, we didn’t understand this in the sixties, so like, Columbia, don’t do it in Columbia. Columbia is a, yeah. What’s wrong with Columbia? Since when was

Simone Collins: Columbia in falling apart?

Malcolm Collins: Cuba, no reason to do it. Greenland would be hilarious. Yes. And just be f*****g funny. And Greenland for the lulls. Yes.

Greenland for the lulls. Just take the president of Greenland, arrest him. Everyone would be confused. Like, what, what do we even do now? Right? No, but I would do it to Greenland, literally for the mean [00:25:00] potential. But outside of that, for the trolls, you know, Denmark, who, who they’re all about trolls. You gotta do it for the trolls.

Right. I ran. Do not do this in Iran. That’s a bad idea. They’re doing it to

Simone Collins: themselves. It’s fine.

Malcolm Collins: Well, Iran’s trying to do it themselves. They won’t just let Iran die on its own. It’s, it’s irrelevant. But I wanna go over some of the memes, some of the reactions to this, because I think they’ve been really edifying right.

One of the, the funniest scenes that came outta this, I dunno if you saw this Simone, but a New York Times reporter called Trump at 4:30 AM just nine minutes after the Maduro thing was announced. Wow. And he picked up, her answer was in three rings. Oh,

Simone Collins: I’m, I’m sure he’s just, you know, I mean, he, I, this was certainly an all-nighter for him.

It could not have not been, you know.

Malcolm Collins: But I thought it was it just shows how accessible Trump is to people, right? Like, and he is, like, his White House has even been accessible to us. Like we’ve done, you know, going over there, doing consulting for them and [00:26:00] stuff like that. Like, they’re fantastic when they have people with ideas, they want to talk to them, and I, I really appreciate that about them.

Next one here. Somebody saying, I haven’t seen a single of Venezuelan angry, and it’s a lot of Venezuelans partying,

Malcolm Collins: which of course, of course. Yeah, that’s true

Simone Collins: actually. I, I would expect given, because I’ve been trying to watch leftist coverage of this, I would expect them to have surfaced a, an reg aggrieved, Venezuelan at this point, you know?

I would wanna find one if I were covering this from that angle. I’ve not yet seen one, which is actually quite interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, I, there’s all these memes of like leftists putting their hands over like white women with like blue hair putting their hands over like brown women’s mouths and being like, let me explain.

I know, I think I know a little bit. Let me tell you how, why Trump freeing you from a dictatorship was bad. It’s and keep in mind when [00:27:00] people are like, oh, this was a, the, the president of another country. No, he wasn’t a president of another country. He didn’t win the election, right. He’s a, a, a guy who stole, like, stole a country and its resources and kept its people as sex.

Slaves. Right? Like that’s basically what he did. Like, that’s, that’s the reality of on the ground, Venezuela. Yeah.

Speaker 7: Yo creo que nadie que entiende la emoción, pero desde mis siete años me tocó vivir en un país donde me arrebataron mi infancia. Me levantaron todo y lo que está sucediendo el día de hoy es increíble. Es increíble. Es consentimiento demasiado grande.

Malcolm Collins: And if you look at the left wing protests one thing that’s been pointed out is there are ties to what is it? China, it appears that they found like smoking guns, that a [00:28:00] lot of the left wing anti protests of this, like in New York and stuff like that, were funded by China.

And if you look at their signs all over the us, they’re all using the same type font, which seems to, they just going to

Simone Collins: the same printer and you know, mass produced, essentially

Malcolm Collins: distributed completely AstroTurf. I mean, that’s what the leftists are. And this is the thing, if you look at the people protesting this because there were major protests in France.

There were major protests in the uk. Really what you’ll notice is. All of the protestors are either white or Middle Eastern. And I think that this really goes to show when we’re talking about who are the real allies. If you look at the video we did yesterday where we point out that both America and Latin America are frontier cultures made up of European colonists.

And we are, our cultures are incredibly similar to each other. Hmm. And that at the end of the day, like we may like riff on each other occasionally but we have a collective enemy, right? And that collective enemy are the Karens. And, and it is this [00:29:00] new Islamist regime that is rising throughout Western countries.

Interesting thing that a lot of people pointed out in regard to this is not not forgetting that Delta forces tried the same tactics in a much weaker Somalia in 1993 and got blown out of the sky by RPGs 18, killed 73 wounded. What happened in Venezuela is nothing special, rather an internal agreement of Maduro surrender and stand down of the military.

So this is oh oh seven, you know, obviously a Russian guy. And all the comments are hilarious on this. People were like, the Americans completed all their objectives for this mission. How many Russians died in the Ukraine without completing any missions? Oh God,

Simone Collins: no. I mean, seeing people. I don’t know.

Malcolm Collins: And then a bunch of people are also like, like, this just isn’t true. But I, I love how Ru butt hurt all the Russian, like trolls and bots are about this, because it just, there was a bunch of Russians recently who were saying like, there’s been some like Russian propaganda saying like. Oh, Trump is [00:30:00] backing down from Venezuela because now he knows he can’t mess with real countries like us, right.

Right. They, they, they basically, I implying that like, we control Venezuela, America’s afraid of us, or, or Venezuela, and Trump is scared of us. Right. And of course they’ve got a lot of egg on their face right now, knowing the other thing that’s

Simone Collins: been Reddit. No. One of our, one of the. Our favorite like, sources of ideas a listener to the podcast, I don’t know if I’m allowed to name you if you’re listening but he, he sent me a, a Reddit post from 34 days ago where someone wrote people treat special forces like they’re space Marines.

No, a dozen guys are not going to infiltrate a hostile country and take out the leadership. Unless the state and defense department is going to be okay with a dozen seals getting their heads chopped off on CNN later. I mean, they made an edit. They wrote edit. They are in fact space Marines, and they are, they shall know.

No fear. Like a lot of people are just. No, it’s been great. A lot of people too, are discussing the prediction markets because I’ve been, [00:31:00] I check to see if there’s anything interesting for the podcast Poly Market, like every other day or so. And it had been a, a big thing on Poly market for a while. Like, will will there be some kind of military conflict in Venezuela?

Will Maduro be out? And there’s been a lot of discussion on how some, someone, a couple people made a lot of money. On this bet, because most, yeah, the, the odds were not in favor of Maduro being right before.

Malcolm Collins: Very interesting. Well, if you’ve been involved in that military operation, that’s a Oh my

Simone Collins: gosh.

Yeah. There’s no laws against that either. I wanna

Malcolm Collins: play this Call of Duty campaign. Right. Like this sounds, this sounds like a cool, like the old Rainbow Six strike game. Like, I love that game. I, I can’t believe they don’t make games like the old rainbow sixes anymore.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: That whole like genre when it extinct, but to to continue with something here that I thought was really interesting.

So this is a post by Asda Normie and it’s who organized and funded the pro Madero demonstrations. I was up when news broke. The [00:32:00] US forces had possibly had a military strike on Caracas. Immediately I knew where to look next, not for confirmation from the Pentagon, but for signals. So she talks to you about her first story about Fox News in my new role as Senior editor of Investigation.

Oh, she works. For, for Fox News now anyway what they discovered as US forces captured Maduro, a paralleled operation began almost instantly in the United States. Rapid coordinated information and street mobilized campaign by a network of self-described socialists, Marxists, and communist organizations.

Mm-hmm. Most of which operate as nonprofits that do not have to pay taxes. For three years, since October 7th I’d been seeing the same thing at protests after protests, Venezuelan flags showing up at anti-Israeli rallies, not randomly, not organically, always alongside the same slogans, the same organizers, the same faces.

That’s when I knew it wasn’t about Gaza or Venezuela, or Peace when activists protested, so blah, blah, blah. I don’t wanna go into all this ‘cause it’s like four pages here. But she goes [00:33:00] into arguing that this is just completely astro turfed. That’s wild.

But anyway for other ones here, there was of course the fantastic and, and the places where you’re seeing really large anti-American protests are places like France. Which I think shows how sort of invaded their country already is because if, if you look at the, the, the nature of these protests, I mean, you, you can tell who’s doing the protesting and who wants Venezuela to continue to be under the the boot of people like Maduro, who,

And, and note Hamas here issues a statement to the US about kidnapping Maduro.

They’re like, don’t run into another country and illegally kidnap people. Which is obviously very rich. A lot of people have been saying it’s very rich that Han Mond one pretended that he was like, informed by, by someone about this. Like, he’s like, I received a briefing. Oh, his

Simone Collins: deputy mayor told him about it.

Malcolm Collins: And I was like, you didn’t receive a breeding, you, you read about it while you were on the [00:34:00] toilet. And Trump would’ve had the honesty to tell us that.

Simone Collins: I don’t know, was like, I don’t know. The deputy mayor was just on x like the rest of us. And I guess Mom, Donnie just can’t even bother to do that.

Malcolm Collins: Of course people love the richness of him saying, you know, you can’t go in and arrest foreign leaders when he’s saying he would do the exact same thing to Netanyahu previously.

This is in Netanyahu, if he went to Manhattan. But still, you know, also Elon, I don’t know if you’ve seen Elon’s reaction to this giving starlink for free to across Venezuela. Which is, which is very fun.

Simone Collins: Wow.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, oh. This is one of the most interesting things that I learned. And I, it actually hasn’t been sur circulated that much, but apparently Trump gave Maduro a final chance to step down.

He refused. CIA, had assets inside Venezuela since August, including a source in Maduro’s inner Circle. Oh, I wonder who that was. Trump deleted. Why do you think Maduro

Simone Collins: didn’t take the 50 million and run.

Malcolm Collins: Nobody took the money, but I think she got something more than 50 million.

Simone Collins: No, no, no. I’m saying Maduro.

They, they offered [00:35:00] him, they were also just like, we’ll give you the money, like you can, I thought they, I don’t know,

Malcolm Collins: maybe they didn’t. But look, there was the 50 million

Simone Collins: reward, but they were also like, Maduro, we’re gonna give you mini, like we will set you up. We know they didn’t, didn’t pay out the money

Malcolm Collins: because Trump said, and I don’t think Trump has the self-control too.

Keep it quiet. If we did pay out the money, said, wow, we saved a lot of money today. No, no. Yeah, no.

Simone Collins: I I, I’m mixing it up. There was a 50 million reward and Trump was like, yeah, well, we don’t have to pay that out, like save that much money. But they, he had also mentioned in the press conference how Maduro had repeatedly been offered.

They would, they would, if you would just leave the country, we’ll set you up, you’ll be all like, you’ll live very comfortably. Just go why do you think he did it? Like, I don’t understand that. ‘cause if I were Maduro I would be like, yeah, my days are numbered. Especially if the United States is like, you know, or, or forthcoming for you.

Malcolm Collins: So I think you gotta remember, Maduro thinks that China and Russia have his back and he doesn’t realize just how weak China and Russia are these days.

Simone Collins: Well, maybe not weak, but like. I [00:36:00] think they just didn’t care that much.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I think that that was a huge miscalculation on his part.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I think a, a theme I’ve seen come up in random places recently is that.

A lot of people in, in various scandals and things that have played out over the past 10 years, who thought that they were, they were doing something with, with coverage from another party that was like more powerful than them, just got utterly. Left in the dust by that party when like sort of the bill was up for payment.

Yeah. And I think that’s something that people should keep in mind in their lives in general. I also

point out like

if someone richer or more powerful than you is like, no, no, no. Do this thing for me. I’ve got your back. Don’t worry. Whatever it takes, do, do this thing. They’re not gonna, if they’re more powerful than you, they owe you nothing and they have no need.

Aside from honor, and please, people aren’t honorable anymore.

Malcolm Collins: Well also keep in mind, even if Maduro took the deal, there’s a lot [00:37:00] of Venezuelans who want this guy tortured and dead, right? Like, well, no,

Simone Collins: but I’m sure the deal would’ve prof, like it would’ve been some kind of witness protection, like you will live in luxury, but somewhere else and under a totally different name, and maybe with like plastic surgery.

Malcolm Collins: Whatever. Anyway, so the point here being CIA had assets since August Trump delayed action to exhaust diplomacy despite pressure to strike Earlier final coordination included Rubio HEGs, desk Ratcliffe and Steven Miller a rare weather window of an open Friday night, which is why it launched then.

Congress kept in the dark until the last moment and Delta force reached the Presidential palace at, at 2:00 AM. The US forces took in return fire and Maduro was running for a hard and safe room, which he failed to reach. And across, apparently

Simone Collins: Trump was watching this all maybe on an iPad, like it was a TV show.

He was like, he was describing it as like, just like tv. It’s great. I love the way Trump talks about that. He makes things so accessible. Like you understand the lack of, of actual romance of these things where like, they’re sitting in a room in [00:38:00] Mar-a-Lago, like, I don’t know, watching a TV or something watching people’s body cams.

It’s delightful.

Malcolm Collins: So the, the protests are being organized by a group called The People’s Forum, which is received 20 million from Neville Signum, a financier with well-documented CCP ties. So that’s who’s organizing this stuff. I just, I just cannot get over this hands off Venezuela stuff I keep seeing

Speaker 13: Free.

The next time you as a Latin American see a trans flag or a Palestinian flag, I want you to remember what you’re seeing at these protests when people tell you that these are harmless ideologies, these are ideologies. That are willing to sacrifice an entire [00:39:00] country of people just so that they don’t have to introspect.

That is what they fundamentally represent. If you notice these protests, you know what you don’t see. You don’t see a single American flag. Okay.

Simone Collins: I mean, their parents even 75 years ago, were only going once a year. So the church isn’t meaningfully seeing that much of a difference. And there are these very strong Catholic communities that are growing in the United States and elsewhere that are very high fertility, that are having a lot of kids.

And that even though they, they may not be. Like fully aligned with the Vatican. They kind of are their own thing. They, they nevertheless represent the future of Catholicism. Yeah. And work in parallel with the Vatican, kind of using it when it, when, or using elements of the church, the, the larger church bureaucracy when convenient for them and then doing their own thing when not, and building strong communities.

And I think there’s really something to be said for that. And I think it’s quite interesting and I’m excited to see. I [00:40:00] guess through the eyes of our children and great grandchildren. ‘cause I mean, it’s gonna take a long time for all this to play out, but what happens to Catholicism over time? But it is definitely a religion to watch.

I mean, it has been for, you know. 2000 years maybe.

Malcolm Collins: I, the reason I bring this up is I was surprised at this. I, I thought that the Vatican would not go that far. I thought that they would like , I sometimes think I’m straw manning them or something. Like they’re not actually that anti-America that they would literally stand mad Maduro.

And again,

Simone Collins: I mean, but that’s, I feel like that’s, that is the out of touch v again, that’s just doing, its. Thing. It’s kind of like that, you know that uncle at dinner who says something off color at the Thanksgiving Day table, and you’re like, that’s just, that’s just Uncle James. You know? Like, it’s fine.

That’s just Uncle James being Uncle James. Yeah. Like he does that sometimes, you know, like, we’re, we’re fine over here. We’re we’re good people. All right. Just don’t worry about it. He’s, he just, you know, he’s off doing his thing. He’s got a lot of [00:41:00] money. All right. You know, he posts good parties.

Malcolm Collins: it, it looks so bad.

It looks so absolutely horrible to, and I’m, and again, I’m, I’m talking here about the wider Latin American community. I just have to guess that these people have no Latin American friends or like, I, I don’t understand. Like, what is your take on this?

Simone Collins: It’s so hard to say. I really. I mean, of course, I, I, I am not surprised by the left condemning him and by the EU condemning him.

This is a, a presidential administration acting unilaterally without acts of Congress, without all this approval. This idea that one country can just go in and take out someone claiming to be president of another country. It disrupts a lot of what people thought. You know, they, they expected to be consulted on this.

You know, people are very insulted by that. Yeah. But you didn’t [00:42:00] ask Congress. How

Malcolm Collins: did you ask Congress about something this

Simone Collins: you don’t like? That’s the thing, and, and I, I really appreciate the Trump administration has just. Stopped, like, I think during the first administration they attempted to do things the correct way.

Like, okay, we’re gonna work through the departments, we’re gonna try to pass the legislation, we’re gonna do the things. And now they realize it’s just never gonna happen if you do it that way. And so they’re, they’re doing it their own way. And, you know, well, you want to stop me. All right. Well try to stop me and then, oh, okay.

You. You know, you use the judicial branch to, to block me. Alright. Well I kind of like how Andrew Jackson with the various actions was just like, okay, well. What Army, you know, we, we’ve come back to that, but I’m also trying to point out that there is historical precedent. The Trump administration is not the first to act unilaterally and even disregard other, other branches of government.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But the left is

Simone Collins: always going to have the orange man bad reaction. If suddenly [00:43:00] Trump decried like actions against Gaza as as genocide, I feel like the left would suddenly have to be like. Well, well, actually Gaza is no. Like, they would have to, they would have to change. Well, the

Malcolm Collins: left, after he ended the Gaza war, the left had to be like, we didn’t care about that to begin with.

That that wasn’t a big deal. That was not a big deal. That does not deserve a Nobel. But I mean, I feel like

Simone Collins: if Trump suddenly started standing Gaza, then they would be like, well, I don’t know about that. Or like, I dunno, they have to, there’s, they cannot agree with, with Orange Man. So.

Malcolm Collins: Well, what I found really interesting is that the Colombian president and the Mexican president boast decried this you know, I, that, that is not, I, obviously they’re both very unpopular right now and leftists.

And so I can understand why. So how is this

Simone Collins: a surprise to you?

Malcolm Collins: Well. Even with their own people again in, unless you are just fantastically wealthy, which it might be the case, maybe the wealthy people in these countries [00:44:00] are shielded from having to interact with Venezuelans. But normal people in these countries interact with Venezuelans all the time.

Simone Collins: And I Right, but I mean, well, I, I also like, basically, if you are not very, very comfortable in your alliance with the Trump administration at this time, and you are in the Americas. I think you were now aware of the fact that if the Trump administration really thinks they can win points, you know, if it’s a 90 to 10 issue among normal people that you know, you would get switched out, then you might get The other thing about this before I

Malcolm Collins: go further on other things is.

This operation has a huge side benefit for Trump and America more broadly which is that it vastly increases our hand in all forward looking international negotiations.

Simone Collins: Oh, why? Just because people are like, well, they, they know that if we don’t get a deal that we like, we’re just gonna take something anyway.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. People didn’t know that just being kidnapped in the middle of the night was an option before, [00:45:00]

Simone Collins: like, this is So Bob based diplomacy though, like the, the, the, they’re following the strategy document just as we said they would, which is, Hey, we’re gonna warn you, just like with our kids, we warn them, we say, Hey.

Don’t do that. You know, you could really get hurt doing that. Don’t do that. Don’t do that. And then like, if they, if they do not respond and continue to do the thing, and you saw Trump try to give him an out, he delayed it. Like they, he delayed had so many warnings,

Malcolm Collins: which shows that he was being incredibly pragmatic and incredibly thought out and incredibly of safe in the way he did this.

But I think the even more terrifying thing about this, if you are say Kim Jong-un or something right now is. Who Trump put in power after this, that it was his second in command. Yeah. Because if you are Kim Jong-Un or something like that, you’re gonna be like America. You’re not gonna like, just take me out.

Like you wouldn’t get what you want, then you wouldn’t get a full regime change, you know? And then Trump needs to be like, no, no, no, no. Is there anyone else in this country with a [00:46:00] lot of power that would like to see you gone? Because we can give them your job. What about that guy over there? He’s wearing a lot of medals and he is like, well, he’s been my most loyal supporter for X many.

Mm-hmm. But if you weren’t there anymore and he had everything you have now, do you really think he’d come to save you? And that’s the most terrifying thing to any actual dictator in a negotiation. Oh

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Trump not saying. Oh, we’re gonna replace your government with a capitalist government. It’s who’s the next most powerful person in the room?

Why don’t I have my staff have a private meeting with them? Yeah, like you do the negotiations with one guy, then you do the negotiations with the next most powerful person in the country. Then you’re like, let’s see who breaks first. Which is no, I

Simone Collins: guess that that really was a smart move to, to promote from within and also to not go in and try to state build, because I think we’ve all seen how that goes.

Don’t, don’t [00:47:00] put your own people in, just let them. Handle it yourselves. Don’t, don’t encourage revolution. Just yeah. Just basically show what happens when you don’t comply with us. And align their incentives more with reform. Yeah. From, from within. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I think that was really smart. Now the, the one that really got me on this

Simone Collins: almost because I would love, ‘cause I feel like the, the next in line with the, the Kim dynasties is his sister or his daughter.

Either, which would be great.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Always somebody willing to, to collaborate on this stuff would be delighted.

Simone Collins: Would be delighted, be

Malcolm Collins: like, and, and, and, and the, and the thing is, is they get such an easy win. You’re like, not only will I take you out, not only will I put your, your daughter in command, but I will release all sanctions and start investing billions in your country immediately after that.

Making them look really good.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Like,

Simone Collins: and I feel like already, like they have such a different look. Like, I think [00:48:00] she. The daughter that is like recently went on Ozempic, like she’s on a whole new look. She’s, I mean, she’s been high fashion. Like all, all the, all the like high female figures in North Korea have, are like very subtle, high fashion like very expensive designer shoes and bags.

But I mean, they’re, they’re very clearly pretty westernized. I don’t know, I just feel like it would be a really interesting directional change.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Well,

Simone Collins: hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So, the thing that really got me on this, ‘cause often I am, I feel like I straw man the Vatican, right? Like, I’m like, oh, the Vatican is like anti-US on every policy measure.

And, and, and generally aligned with the forces of global evil. Like they, they, they, to me, I joked in the last episode and the thing that I added, it’s always weird to me talking to like one of our. Like really nice, like Catholic friends, because I really like Catholics as people. I like Catholics as people even more than like, Jesus Catholics

Simone Collins: are so awesome,

Malcolm Collins: but the, the Vatican is just always evil.

Like, it, [00:49:00] it’s like an evil maxing organization and I don’t always expect them to like, it’s like, sir, we have a problem with pedophiles throughout our organization. Well, let’s cover it up and reation them. You know, or, you know, I talk about them being involved in like socialist coups and stuff like that, and constantly saying we need to let in infinite immigrants to our country.

And even saying that to Italians when they, nobody’s perfect one point.

Simone Collins: Come on Malcolm.

Malcolm Collins: But, but the Pope, who by the way popes have been many, many pictures was Maduro Popes love Maduro Pope’s all about Maduro, right? Yeah, but the

Simone Collins: most recent Pope, no, he said in

Malcolm Collins: response to this, the current Pope said in response to this, okay, it is with deep concern that I am following the events in Venezuela.

The good of my beloved Venezuelan people prevail over every other consideration. This must lead to the overcoming of violence and the pursuit of pathways of justice and. I pray for all of this and I invite you two in trusting our prayer for the intercession of our [00:50:00] Lady Komoto and the Saint Jose Gregorio Hernandez and Carmen Rendez hashtag Pray Together and he’s giving basically of

Simone Collins: corrupt socialist dictators or what.

Malcolm Collins: I clearly, he’s on the Maduro side. He’s like, the US should not be doing that. That’s what I read from this, this vague posting is, is this is a condemnation of the United States in our actions, and it should make sense. The Pope was a staunch ally of Maduro and his regime. And, and the Vatican was. And I, I love some of the comments on this.

The Vatican offers platitudes while America delivers liberation. Your call for peace functions as a shield for a socialist tyrant starving his own flock. The church once understood that evil must be destroyed. Now it offers cover to butchers under the guides of diplomacy. And then another post here, Pope Leo, Leo, the

14th woke up and decided to do a little bit of vague posting. Please let us know when you’re ready to stop [00:51:00] divining through the clouds. May go to quotes from the Bible basically saying you’re not supposed to do this. Like John 1629 in one curr, 14, nine. And it’s it, and he wasn’t posting complaints when, you know, Maduro is running people over with cars or treating his population as rape slaves.

He’s, he is offering this when we. Go in and clean up the mess. Right? And, and keep in mind that if the Vatican wanted to be a force for good in the world, they could be like the Vatican in a deeply Catholic country like Venezuela. It could have gone into the country and said, Hey like, we need to work this out.

You weren’t actually elected. Can we do so? Like, let’s, let’s try to work this out with this person. Let’s come up with a peaceful resolution. Here’s how we can help you. The Vatican could have played the negotiator in this. They could have. Fought for the forces of good. They could have fought against the mass tortures and the mass rapists and the mass, everything.

But no, it is the removing that situation, which is the threat to the world order that they have established. And I [00:52:00] just and I joked in the other episode is, you know, we like our, our, our Catholic fans, but it’s a bit like knowing that one of our fans like works for Hydra or something and you’re talking to them and

they’re like, oh yeah, the red skull. Well, you know, the top of Hydra’s really corrupt these days and they’re always getting into crazy stuff. I don’t really listen to them anymore. And. You know, they, they, most, most hydro henchmen aren’t really that into the, the red skulls ideology anyway. We would just really believe in the organization, it’s roots, it’s history and, and you’re like, you, you point to the history, you know, it’s like the, the, the.

What, what, what, what? But I, and I joked with that episode. I love that this is what we think that our, like Catholic followers look like going to, Roman mass.

Speaker 23: [00:53:00] Quit

By the way, I feel at this point I’m almost trying to dare press to say something about this because. I cannot believe that I can say this. Many things antagonistic about a religion and culture on our show, and yet, the news media won’t touch it yet. A person can say Islam can be questioned on their door and they get arrested.

Or if I said one, one. Billionth of this against Jewish people, I would be literally dragged outta my house. Like this is crazy. How much no one cares What you say about Catholics.

Malcolm Collins: But the point being is that I don’t get it. Like I I I do not get how even in Latin America, and we, we are seeing mass Latin American deconversion from Catholicism right now.

For people who don’t know. While it may look like you have a big conversion wave because for whatever reason, I wanna do a separate episode [00:54:00] on this, a lot of intellectual influencers. Are converting to Catholicism. If you look at the actual masses they’re losing eight converts for every one person who converts in, which is dramatically higher than any other Christian.

Sorry, that number was an underestimation. It’s 8.4 lee for everyone who converts in. When you contrast that with Protestants, where it’s 1.8 levers per convert,

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: But the I think a, the argument that you’ll hear from a lot of Catholics, including many of our fans, is. Those people who are allegedly deconvert are also like they were functionally never Catholic to begin with. Maybe they were born Catholic and their parents took them to church once a year and they went to church once a year.

And then eventually on surveys they just started saying, yeah, I’m not really. Really Catholic. And because Catholic started off with so many people who were just culturally Catholic for a long time,

Malcolm Collins: that makes a lot of sense now that

Simone Collins: it’s no longer cool and also no longer normative. People are just no longer reporting on surveys in large and larger numbers.

But functionally, the church isn’t really. Seeing any [00:55:00] loss. These weren’t people who were actively contributing or to, or involved in the community to begin with.

Malcolm Collins: By the way, Chicago’s teacher Union, if you’re worried about your kids, and you should be, if they’re in school, well, are

Simone Collins: are they coming out about Venezuela because that’s, oh yeah.

Malcolm Collins: The Chicago’s teacher Union had an emergency Chicago protest. No War on Venezuela.

Simone Collins: Because student outcomes really have to do with what is happening in Venezuela, and there is no war in Venezuela. They should be the whole point.

Malcolm Collins: What, what’s really disgusted me is they’re all like, we’re doing this to protect the Venezuelans and it’s like our Venezuelan students and stuff like that.

Right?

Simone Collins: Meanwhile, the kids, the kids sitting in the classrooms, I don’t, I, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Oh, there’s a really heartbreaking, one of the, the mom who went to one of these protests who’s like a Venezuelan mom and freaking out on them,

Speaker 11: Qué le pasó? Están así? Qué pasó? 26 años, 26 años. Llevamos esperando ese momento. [00:56:00] Ustedes vienen los que los que dicen llamar la paz

Malcolm Collins: and you can really see the pain in her face that they are protesting this. Oh, what?

She’s just

Simone Collins: like, do you not understand what you’re saying? Yikes. What, what is she?

Malcolm Collins: She, oh, she’s just going over like what her and her family have been through, you know? Oh. Like she’s trying

Simone Collins: to explain to them why they should be stoked about.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah, because they’re like, how dare you do this for at least Madora.

Like obviously these people are like terrified of Madora being released. I’m just really impressed with the Trump administration. I I, I think the next person we really need to do this to is Tim Waltz. So we can save, save. What, what is he governor of from the Somalian scammers. What? Tim Waltz, governor Tim Waltz.

Oh, that he’s not gonna run again? No. That we need to extradite him. Oh. To a place where we can charge him from his compound, you know. Oh, oh my gosh. That needs to be that. I, [00:57:00] I, I love, I, I I, it is just so cool that this is on the table now, that the Trump administration was able to carry this out, that they have handled this so pragmatically.

And I think a lot of people’s lives are going to slowly but, but hopefully get a lot better as a result of this. Yes. And it will fundamentally both change Latin America, but I also think. Change the a Latin American. And if, if, if you’re wondering, if you’re like, come on guys, you can’t have an entire Latin American community feel a forever debt to a political party and lose them forever, right?

It’s like, I’d like to introduce you to the Cuban American population. You may not realize just how long this betrayal is going to sit with the Venezuelan American population.

Simone Collins: Hmm. Anyway, I can’t believe

that happened. Again, the timeline, this timeline, this [00:58:00] timeline. It’s a good timeline.

Malcolm Collins: Crazy. I like this.

Anyway. Love you, Simone. I love you too, and I’m glad that we live in this world. And somebody tried to assassinate JD Vance with a hammer. I don’t even, I’m not even gonna do like a thing. Like I don’t even think that this, I don’t care what his ideology was. He’s clearly too stupid. If you try to assassinate the president, the vice president of the United States with a hammer,

Simone Collins: the one and only.

A murder scene I’ve ever seen in my life though, is with a hammer. I will never see a hammer and not see the murdered body that I saw. I, I told you about this before that like we had this career day in like middle school where we got to go to an Oakland. Courthouse and like talk with lawyers and judges and learn about the justice system.

They took a bunch of kids to see somebody. We had a pizza party in one of the courtrooms and there was a, there was a board and I, I can’t remember if it was like a clerk or someone else who was, you know, giving us a little talk over our pizza lunch. But they were like, oh yeah, [00:59:00] we just had a murder trial in here.

Do you wanna see the evidence poster? And ev of course, we’re all like, yeah. And he flips it over and it was, it was the, the, the murder victim who had been taken out by a hammer. So yeah, baby Simone traumatized. I’m not traumatized. I, I, it wasn’t disturbing to me in the moment. I, I don’t know if it’s like an autism thing.

I didn’t know I was autistic at the time, but like part of me is just like. I mean, it was it dead? Like I just, I mean, you’re, you’re going to evaluate hammers differently after you see what a hammer can do to the human head.

Malcolm Collins: All right. Alright, well, it’s been good talking to you. This is a spectacular day.

This is I, I’d say a better day for, for the world than the end of the Gaza War. You know, truly this one,

At the end of the day, the Gaza War was about freeing a tiny handful of hostages from a country that most of the rest of the world didn’t really care about that much in a conflict. , Venezuela is a country [01:00:00] that tons of the world, especially if you’re in America or in American, , and I mean north, south to Latin, you know, central, , has connections to, it was about freeing an entire country of hostages.

Simone Collins: honestly, like the EU and all these countries that are having a conniption with us, it’s great for them too, because now they get to go to their constituencies and pontificate about how.

Absolutely horrible. The Trump administration is so everyone gets, everyone gets gr for the mill. Everyone gets, you know, and in the end, Venezuelan citizens within the country. Well, it strengthens Latin

Malcolm Collins: America. It strengthens America because we can lower the amount of refugees, drugs, and stuff like that coming into our country.

Yeah. It, it strengthens the Republican party. It strengthens its right wing causes. Yeah.

Simone Collins: The only loser is our, is our poor travel business. Everyone getting so mad about their canceled flights, the refunds and the logistics around that.

Malcolm Collins: I’m sorry, Simone. I know you’re doing a

Simone Collins: [01:01:00] lot. But all for a greater cause.

Not that our customers would recognize that in some cases, some people, most people are very understanding. Some people are not. I mean, you know, God forbid. But they cancel your flight when the countries and disarray, but whatever, whatever. Love you. Oh yeah. There was, they made a big blackout, didn’t they?

Or did it something like that. Yeah, they did.

Malcolm Collins: Tactically, Trump bragged about it. He was like, you, you don’t

Simone Collins: wanna be flying

when that’s happening. No. Just, I just, I mean,

Malcolm Collins: I feel like Trump feels like he got a new toy and his administration is thinking how to play with it, right? Like it’s delightful.

Simone Collins: Yeah. We could do this.

We could just take Randall Try. Gotta take Yeah. Like, yeah. Who else can Who? Let’s do it again. Do me, do me.

Malcolm Collins: Do

Simone Collins: me?

Malcolm Collins: No, everyone in the administration that’s got of guy, you know, as I said, like Rubio desperately wants to freak Cuba. He’s like, me. My turn, my turn. Can we do a Cuba? Can we do a Cuba? [01:02:00]

Simone Collins: Yeah, seriously.

Okay. All right. I love you. Bye bye. Bye.

Which one would you like to do next? We can do inter nationalism or we do? No, we’ll do your

Malcolm Collins: one. Okay.

Simone Collins: I’ll see you in there. Favorable.

Malcolm Collins: I assassinate him. Looks like a dweeb. He looks like a dweeb beer version of JD Vance. Oh,

Simone Collins: no.

Malcolm Collins: Looks like a version of the JD Vance meme. Actually.

Simone Collins: Oh, maybe that’s why he wanted to to to end him is because it was insulting to him that someone stole his look.

You know who wore it better? That kind of situation. I could totally see it. You know, sometimes it just, someone takes your look and, and you’re mad about it. Totally understandable. It’s rough when someone takes your look. I love your future day sweater. It’s delightful. Great.

Malcolm Collins: It’s for future dates. See, it’s not a [01:03:00] Christmas sweater.

It’s a future day sweater. Yeah, our kids saw the future police for the first time last night, and I am livid at my wife because she had the camera the entire time and took still pictures instead of a single video. It did. I sent you a video. Oh, you did? Was it on On WhatsApp? WhatsApp. Oh, I was looking on the photo app.

[01:04:00]

Why is Latin America the most nerd-obsessed region on Earth? Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into surprising statistics showing that Brazil and Mexico out-nerd even Japan when it comes to anime consumption, video games, conventions, and more.

From Dragon Ball Z funerals in Mexico to Crunchyroll’s Spanish dubs dominating viewership, Latin America has been anime-crazy since the 1970s. We explore why anime exploded there (uncensored dubs, telenovela-style storytelling, cheap imports), debunk common theories (like Japanese immigration), and explain the cultural factors that made LatAm the global capital of nerd culture.

We also discuss how this shared “nerd frontier” culture makes Latin American immigrants far more culturally compatible with the US than many realize — closer than historical Irish or Italian waves — and touch on broader immigration, Catholic history, and even cowboy linguistics.

This is a fun, data-packed episode for anime fans, gamers, and anyone interested in culture, demographics, and immigration.

Episode Transcript:

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today.

America is dealing with a serious problem, a flood of immigrants from Latin America. And if you know anything about Latin Americans, you know exactly what type of people they are.

Speaker 8: what they like, standard nerds.

Malcolm Collins: But no, in, in reality. If you are unfamiliar with this phenomenon, Latin America is shockingly nerdy, shockingly nerdy.

We’ll just, well, I can start with a parade that they held in service. This was in Mexico to a character in Dragon Ball Z dying.

Simone Collins: Or, oh, don’t forget that. Like in the protests that are taking place right now, there there are one police peace flags flying. Yeah, well,

Malcolm Collins: they’ve been doing that in a lot of countries.

Here’s a. Showing of dragon ballsy outside in, in, in, in Latin America. To give you an example of how big they are,

[00:01:00]

Malcolm Collins: but if we’re talking about specific statistics, did you know that in Brazil when you ask people the percentage of internet users who enjoy anime, the number the percent in Brazil is higher than the percent in Japan.

That is how nerdy they are. So to go over the, and we’re gonna go over why this is after we go over all the statistics. But to go over the statistics here in Brazil it’s between 42 to 45%. In recent estimates in Mexico, it’s 41 to 44%. In Japan it is 38 to 42%, so less than Mexico or Brazil. Wow. In compared to the us.

So keep in mind, in Mexico and Brazil, you’re looking at like 41 to 42 to like 45%. In the US it’s 15 to 21%.

Simone Collins: Oh my gosh.

Malcolm Collins: So when I see them, like [00:02:00] nerdier and, and we’re gonna go over other nerdy hobbies too, because they are nerdier across the spectrum really. I mean, like demonstrably, nerdier, like

Simone Collins: DD nerdy, like not just, not we, they’re they’re way nerd to

Malcolm Collins: video games than people in the United States or Europe as well.

Oh wow. Okay. I know this isn’t just United States, this is basically all other countries, including Japan, they’re nerdier than in the uk. Anime is is 15 to 21%. Right? And this is from the pair consumer data.

Simone Collins: Wow, that’s so low.

Malcolm Collins: If you look at watch time weekly of anime, right? Like how much, oh, oh, by the way, if you’re wondering like crunchy roll data.

Yeah. Actually, we’ll get to that in a second.

Simone Collins: Okay,

Malcolm Collins: watch Time Weekly, Brazil, Mexico 35 to 40%. This is aligned with streaming surveys. This is anime watch time. Weekly of, of like, what they’re watching is anime. Yeah. That’s 40%, so it’s a little below Japan. And in Mexico it’s 36%. In Europe it’s 20 to 25%.

And then if you look at. Percent choosing anime is their favorite genre. [00:03:00] Latam has the highest rate anywhere globally. 2018. Nice guys. Japan is 17% us, Canada, 16%. And then ema, including the UK is, is 12%. Huh. And if you look at apac, like a, A, whatever you’re looking at 17%. Okay, so, crunchy roll, crunchy roll, viewership by language.

Spanish dubs make up 40% of viewing on the platform.

Simone Collins: Wow.

Malcolm Collins: English dubs are only 30 to 40%, so more people watch anime on crunchy roll in Spanish than in English.

Simone Collins: Collectively, and Crunchy Roll is a US Incorporated entity right. So I think we applied to jobs there once and it was like, it was in Austin or Texas, I think.

Malcolm Collins: I think so. Yeah. Yeah. If you look at Japanese exports of anime products, 40 to 50% go Latin American. Wow. . Okay. [00:04:00] So let’s, let’s now be like, okay. You can be like, it’s just watching anime, right? Like, it’s not actually like nerd culture.

Okay.

Simone Collins: Okay. I mean,

Malcolm Collins: so in Brazil they have like an anime pop culture convention

that it pulls in. It’s called CCXP, that pulls in 280,000 to 297,000 people.

It’s like a city. That’s huge. Oh my god.

It’s literally twice the size of Comic-Con, which is 135,000 people. And then if you’re looking at the, the largest anime only convention in the United States, right?

Yeah. That’s Anime Expo, which is a hundred thousand to 115,000. Is that

Simone Collins: the Wait, is that the San Jose one?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, the one that we used. That’s the biggest one. No, that’s in Los Angeles.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay.

Malcolm Collins: But if you contrast that with anime friends in Brazil, that brings in 80 to a hundred thousand. So about the same.

And then if you, [00:05:00] so what I’m pointing out here is off the chart. Off the charts in terms of anime consumption. And you can say, okay, well what about this video game thing you mentioned here? Alright. Yeah. Yeah. So, if you look at total player count in Latin America, you have a total player count of 372.3 million people.

Contrast that was North America, which is only 224.8 million people. Huh. If you look at. So that means the lifetime has around 67% more players in the United States, despite a smaller population. Yeah. And because this United States, you’re looking at 249 million.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Wow. What is going on?

Malcolm Collins: Hey if you look at let’s see.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay. I have some theories.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, also much higher. What is it? A eSports viewership. Mm-hmm. Okay. So then I decided, I was like, okay, let’s try to go to other things. Let’s go to like furries and stuff like that. Are they also more in the furries? This was the only one where they do not [00:06:00] appear to be more into things. You see higher rates.

So before I go further and there’s some common explanations that I don’t really buy. And we, we’ll go deep on one of these common explanations I don’t fully buy, and then we’ll get into what I actually think caused it. Okay.

The common explanation that I don’t normally buy, that won’t go deeper on, but just so you’re aware.

As people say, well, Latin America was a highly sort of diverse marketplace where you didn’t have a lot of local content production. And so when they were buying children’s shows they disproportionately bought the rights to anime shows over United States shows. And that led to this really high rate of anime watcher ship across Latin America.

And I’m like. Okay. But if that was true, then why don’t we see a similar phenomenon across Southern Europe? Why don’t we see a similar phenomenon in Eastern Europe? Why don’t we see a similar phenomenon in Africa? Mm-hmm. Right? Like why all of them presumably could have gotten [00:07:00] anime cheaper too. So why is it specific to Latin America?

And note here, it’s not a Catholic thing. You, you do not see any of these phenomenons mirrored in Southern Europe, where actually anime consumption is lower than Northern Europe. Another country that really surprised me is the largest manga in the world is France, so another Catholic majority country there.

So, huh.

And, and also hopefully this makes, I think a lot of people like trolled the Vatican for when the Vatican created that anime girl as like their mascot. Oh yeah. And cute. And a lot of, she was

Simone Collins: adorable.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That’s really cute.

I wish they went all in with that. Like V

Simone Collins: 20%

Malcolm Collins: Vatican comes to town, a little Vatican you know, castle Girls everywhere.

Yes.

To clarify here, just because we think the Vatican did one base thing, and I think this was definitely base, does not mean that I do not think that they are an institution that is.

Not.

Diabolically Evil. , Recently with the Maduro thing, they decided to stand Maduro be like, [00:08:00] oh, we’re concerned about the United States, you know, with Maduro never complaining about, you know, the people being tortured under Maduro.

Right. When people don’t understand what we mean when we say the Vatican is the number one like enemy of like good in the world, in the United States and our geopolitical interests, just look at their reaction to Maduro, right? And I wanted to do today’s episode on Maduro, but Simone doesn’t record on weekends, so you guys are gonna get that tomorrow.

I was telling Simone, it’s so funny how much I like our Catholic fans and it’s a bit like, you know, you meet somebody who’s like a henchman for Hydra and they’re like, and they’re like really chill and you’re like hanging out with them and then you’re like, but.

Why, why, why do you, why do you hunch for Hydra Man? , And they’re like, oh yeah. I mean, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t agree with everything. You know, the people at the top are all about, and I’m like, but then why? , And they’re like, no, no, no, no, no. You don’t understand. Every large corporation has some corruption at the top.

I mean, the red skull, he is just, he’s a, he’s a whack, he’s silly, you know, he does his own [00:09:00] thing. I’m just a, you know, a typical henchman. I, I believe in the organization.

Speaker 23: Quit

Malcolm Collins: no, I thought she was great. But you’ve gotta keep in mind the context. When you’re looking at Catholic majority countries, like France being the number one consumer of Manga or Latin America being these fanatical consumers of anime it, it might change your mind in terms of how normal these things are in the mindset of a lot of these countries.

So, Simone, you said you had theory. What’s your theory?

Simone Collins: Japanese immigrants in Brazil, Peru, et cetera, like I, I didn’t expect that until we moved there, but then they were like, [00:10:00] oh yeah, no, we just have a ton of JA Japanese immigrants there. And here we are eating Japanese fusion food, Nikkei all the time.

And I just hadn’t realized that there was such a big, that Japanese immigrant contingent. So,

Malcolm Collins: Brazil had a quote unquote large Japanese immigrant population. If you’re looking at raw numbers. Yeah. But if you look at it against the population that existed was in Peru, Uhhuh, it’s completely ins, I mean, Brazil, it’s completely insignificant.

The only country was meaningful immigration when contrasted with the existing population was Peru. But, and I’m pretty sure about this, the Chinese immigrant population was larger than the Japanese one. That that was the dominant immigrant population in Peru.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: I’m just gonna check really quickly,

Simone Collins: still influential, and I think if, if you were to look at the immigrant population of Japanese immigrants in Brazil and Peru versus the.

Percentage of the population that is [00:11:00] Japanese immigrants in the United States.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I was right. Chinese immigrants are much larger in Peru.

Simone Collins: I would still guess that there is a higher percentage of Japanese immigrants in Brazil and Peru than in the United States.

Malcolm Collins: I’m gonna bet you’re wrong, really. So lemme pull this up.

Okay. So, percent of Peru descendant.

Japanese immigrant.

Okay, so it’s 0.1 to 0.3% of Perus population.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Percent of USA

0.5. So not that different

Simone Collins: in the US It’s zero point. Yeah. Yeah. It’s

Malcolm Collins: right in the middle there. So 0.1 to 0.3% in Peru and the US is 0.5. So it’s, it’s higher in the United States.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Okay. Well then my theory is debunked, huh? Wow.

Malcolm Collins: [00:12:00] So we’ll go into the standard theory first. Okay. And then we can go into my theories.

Okay. Okay. So, in the 1960s and 1970s when Japan animation was introduced as an affordable alternative to Western cartoons due to budget constraints in local TV production.

Networks like Mexico’s television and tv, Azteca, as well as channels in Brazil and Argentina, imported anime series, because licensing rates were significantly cheaper than American productions. Mm-hmm. I mean, and Zach Milo, then president of Televisa, famously brought. Japanese cartoons in the 1970s is the most cost effective option for filling airtime.

Early hits included speed Racer known as Rio in Spanish, Astroboy and Princess Night, which aired was out heavy censorship. Unlike in the US where violence, blood, and romantic elements were often edited out. Oh no. What I will note here and I think is important to note about anime’s explosion in Latin America.

Anime exploded in Latin America from the very, [00:13:00] very beginning of anime.

Simone Collins: Mm, yeah. Speed racers way back in the day.

Malcolm Collins: Speed racer Astroboy. Princess Night. Princess Night. By the way, the largest collector of it is in Peru of like memorabilia for it. Like we’re. Seventies era anime. Yeah. Wow. Like, like, it didn’t get popular with like dragon ballsy or something like that.

Right.

Simone Collins: Which is still considered ancient. I mean, you know how we, how old we felt. Not that this is anime, but when. Someone staying with us was talking about this really old animated film that she watched called Kung Fu Panda, and we were like devastated.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. She’s like, yeah, there’s this really old anime I watched that I

Simone Collins: watched when I was really little.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, the 1980s marked a boom with series like Saints Saia dubbed Los Corio de Zelda, um uh, or Raman one and two, which became cultural staples. These shows were dubbed into neutral Spanish, or Portuguese, was opening and ending songs, [00:14:00] often translated and performed by local artists. For instance, Saint SGIs Sea was covered by bands like Vase and remains iconic decades later.

In fact it was done by like a, a winner to like a huge acclaim in Peru on, on, on their major like, you know, stars singing show where like you go and you audition. That was there like. Big moment. You know, like you have one of those moments where like somebody goes up, I can’t remember the one that happened in the UK where there was like ugly fat lady who goes up and sings and everybody loves her.

There was somebody going up and singing from an old anime.

[00:15:00] The 1990s brought explosive growth who was Dragon Ball, which turned heard across the region and inspired generations. A success in latam even influenced its revival in the US after initial flops. There other series like Sailor Moon in Yasha and Naruto followed with minimal changes.

EEG character names adjusted for pronunciation. A key factor in enemies enduring appeal. And this is, I do think an important thing here. So I, I’ll go over the two things that I think were really big. One I have actually mentioned in my readout of explanations here, but you may not have caught it or realized how different it makes Latin America than everywhere else that tried to air anime as cheap alternatives.

Do you know what it was?

Simone Collins: I mentioned just low cost, right? I mean, like the thing that stood out to me in the things you mentioned was low cost.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but it should have been about equally low cost anywhere. It was airing like Southern Europe,

Simone Collins: but Southern [00:16:00] Europe had some like great og like illustrated cartoons and stuff for kids, as did the United States.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they, they did have some, because you had like asterisk and like, okay. So exactly the, the core thing that was different about the way anime was rolled out during that period in the United States, in Southern Europe, in Eastern Europe and in Latin America was twofold. Okay. The first actually does have to do, its cause Latin America is not actually a fragmented market.

It looks like a fragmented market, but pretty much everyone there speaks one of two languages. Spanish or Portuguese. Okay. And that means that the mates could be dubbed centrally in Mexico

and just

across the region at a cheaper price than you could, for example, dub into all of so Southern Europeans.

Okay. Mixed languages or Eastern Europeans mixed languages. That makes sense. And I think this was all by far more important is. They didn’t censor it at all. Every other market that [00:17:00] anime was dubbed into did heavy censorship from the very beginning,

Simone Collins: and they made it suck more basically. Like it was better because it wasn’t censored and they weren caught on more.

They took

Malcolm Collins: death. They took out sex, they took out, you know, and that was always a big part of anime when compared. And, and so keep in mind you’re a young kid in one of these countries, right? And you can watch American cartoons of that ear period, or you can watch anime, right? Mm-hmm. And so you’re comparing it to something like GI Joe, and you know, people actually bleed when they get punched in this one.

Yeah. Die. Or people actually. Like you’re, is it, I remember as a kid how important something being a little edgy was to me.

And

if I had those two things, and keep in mind from their perspective, these two things are undifferentiated because they are both dubbed into their language. Right? So I’ve got these two things.

One just seems a neutered and boring in comparison to the other, right? Yeah. And also you don’t have them really [00:18:00] molesting with fts. So fun animation, destroyed anime in the United States. An shoulda contracted with fun animation. Huge mistake. Next, which was really important to it becoming as big as it did was its similarities to telenovelas.

In terms of

the

story

structure.

So in the United States if you’ve watched like Dragon Ball Z. And you were a kid, it can be a shocking experience to you because every single effing episode ends with a cliff finger in a way that American cartoons just don’t. Right? Yeah. They’re, they’re really

Simone Collins: a lot more self-contained.

That’s a great point. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But if you watch to the end of like a Dragon Ball Z episode. It’s a bunch of drama in a fight, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Maybe, maybe Dun was like balls or something and then like talking to each other and they’re like, whoa. You know? But. That in, in structure really [00:19:00] is not that different from the way a telenovela often plays out.

Simone Collins: That’s very interesting.

Malcolm Collins: The center of the conflict being two characters talking at each other about their emotions which is not, or, or like you killed X person who was my half sister. But actually we were. Lovers. Yeah. And, and that is very similar to the way anime plays out. Yeah. And then every episode ending was like a,

oh no.

Can you imagine

the, the, the, the cliffhanger here? And that just was not as jarring to Latin American audiences as it was to American audiences, and it culturally fit what they were already used to from the native types of storytelling. And so if anything, the American style storytelling felt much weirder or more boring, right?

So, Simone, I another thing I wanted to talk about on this,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Because we, like our primary friend groups are Latin America, and we work at a [00:20:00] company, like the companies that we run are all based in Latin America.

We used to live in Peru. I’ve lived in Mexico and Brazil and Costa Rica. So a lot of Latin American countries. And I, I always. I feel like when I go back, it’s so funny because like my core like world outside of this podcast is Latin American. And yet I go to my like reunion at like the GSV and it feels like because they hear about us being like quote unquote great replacement theories or whatever, and it’s like that scene

Speaker: Good, good. I hear you are a racist

Speaker 4: now, father, what? What? How did you get interested in that type of thing? Said, I’m a racist. Everyone’s saying it, father. Should we all be racist now? What’s the official line the church has taken on this? Oh, no.

Only the farm takes up most of the day and at night. I just like a cup of tea. I might be able to devote myself full time to the old racism.

Malcolm Collins: And. [00:21:00] I’m like, no, no, that’s not me. It’s, it’s the reports have been grossly exaggerated. And then the other part of our fan base is like this lady

Speaker 4: Good for you, father. What? Oh, Mrs. Re.

Speaker 5: Good for you father, but someone hasn’t got to stand up to the coming over here. Taking our jobs and our women and acting like they own.

Speaker 6: F*****g

Mexicans.

Speaker 6: . It isn’t the ,

Mexicans.

Speaker 6: It’s the

Catholics more broadly.

. He’s after. I’m not after the .

Catholics

, they invented gayness.

Malcolm Collins: And, and we’re like, we have to be like, no, I, I think they, they, they may have exaggerated our positions on a few things in that latest piece.

But anyway. The, the, what I wanted to get to was something I mentioned in another episode where I said that Latin America was culturally closer to the US than especially Mexico. I said, is culturally closer to the US than many other regions.

Yeah.

And so like, do you wanna do a full episode on this?

And I’m like, Hmm. I don’t really wanna do a full episode on [00:22:00] it, but I can go get a bit deeper into it here. And this is something that like, unless you actually know a lot of Latin Americans, I would not say that you have a lot of opinions on. Because a lot of people who I know who say that this is not true either have not lived outside the US a lot in different regions or they just don’t know a lot of Latin.

Because the things that they cite as being indicative of like the reasons Latin Americans are incompatible with America. Are the same stuff that every Catholic immigrant population has done in America ever. You know, if, if you’re talking about the crime wave, well, so did the Irish and the Italians, you know, the, the mafia in the mob, right?

Organized crime was really big in those two countries. We have an episode on why it’s so common in Catholic majority country immigrant populations. If, if, if you’re talking about them refusing to integrate for a period you know, I, I’d actually argue that the Latin American immigrants have integrated.

Significantly faster, like maybe twice or three times as fast as either the Irish or the Italian immigrant waves did. Yeah.

Simone Collins: [00:23:00] That’s, I think that’s fair.

Malcolm Collins: And, and so I, I just don’t think that’s, that’s particularly fair. If you look at their countries already, their countries very similar to the United States are countries of immigrants.

IIE you know, did they, they came from Europe often. Conquered native populations they are slightly more integrated with those populations in the United States. Mm-hmm. Although the extent to which they’re integrated with those populations, I think is hugely overstated so that they can be treated as bipoc.

If, if you if you, and again, my pop my perspective on this is always going to be a little. Biased because I am a seventh generation Texan. And that means that, you know, my family was there before Texas State. And so that means for people who are from Texas you, you grow up in a country that is already a Latin American version of the United States.

So again, that also makes it seem not as distant. So, so like from my perspective, and I’m just con comparing them ‘cause people were asking me about this they seem [00:24:00] more cohesive. With a sort of American values and tradition, then the Italian or Irish immigrant waves were

Simone Collins: yeah,

Malcolm Collins: descendants of some of those waves are.

This isn’t to say that like I, I would kick them out, but, but one of the questions is why are they, and I think that part of it’s with nerdy culture it’s a nerdy frontier culture.

Simone Collins: Where do frontier culture? I don’t, do you consider it a frontier culture? I don’t know.

If you wanna see a spectacular movie about this period of Latin American history, watch the Mask of Zoro.

Speaker 11: They want to destroy America. Give me the courage strength to wear the mask a little longer, . the world isn’t big enough to hide from me.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, yeah. It is a frontier culture.

If you, if you there’s a great thing that went through all these words that we think of as cowboy words.

Simone Collins: Oh, yeah. That are like super, super Spanish words. I

Malcolm Collins: know. For example, [00:25:00] or there were a

Simone Collins: ton. Yeah. On, on Star Codex 10, he did like a summary of all of them. Found it, so, Buckaroo is Vaquero, cahoots is cohorts. Vamos is Vao or Vamos. Whose G is Hu viles is Vic, or sorry, Vic T is Lata. Kimbe. Ismo. Sabe. He, who knows the, the one who knows most Tanto is, is dummy.

Mosey is, is probably also from Vamos, like Va vamo, you know? Yeah. Tarnation was probably just a way to avoid saying damnation,

So I decided to look up a clip of Yosemite Sam, just to point this out to people, and the very first clip I found both has him either saying that most of Yosemite Sam is taking place in Mexico, or that he is from Mexico because he points out as being from the other side of the Rio Grande and uses the [00:26:00] term ombre to refer to other people.

For people who don’t know, that’s Spanish.

Speaker 13: Yeah. Yosemite. Sam. The roughest. Toughest Heman. Toughest ombre has ever crossed a Rio Grande

Simone Collins: posse Latin, verbal Infiniti equals to be able to or have power. Boondocks is Bundock, which is Tagalog, so not Spanish, but means mountains. Honcho is actually Japanese.

Turns out group leader El legato, the lizard became alligator over time. Savvy is sabe like nos like I know, like it’s a conjugation of no in, in Spanish. Like he knows. They know. So yeah, just tons there. Some of them are, are French too, but. The, the vast majority here

Malcolm Collins: are. So the point being is that when you think of the old west, when you think of the cowboy archetype about [00:27:00] 50% of the cowboy archetype was Mexicans.

Yeah. Mexico. Yeah. This is not to say that this wasn’t a blended culture with the United States or that you know, and I don’t ascribe to like the US stole Mexican land or anything like that. It’s actually much more complicated than that. And there’s a longer video I can make on that if people are interested in

Yeah.

But

the, the wider point here being is, that across Latin America, you’re dealing with a culture where the core difference between them and American culture, like, I’m like, where are they culturally different from us? Pretty much everything that makes them culturally different comes from one of two things.

Slightly higher native population to start. Mm-hmm. And a higher cath. And, and that they’re Catholic well in a,

Simone Collins: in a different language, Spanish or Portuguese.

Malcolm Collins: You. Yeah. But that makes them significantly closer to us than any European immigrant group.

Mm-hmm. Whether

that’s Irish or German. Really the only European immigrant group that I guess you could [00:28:00] argue is culturally compatible with the us would be.

English because you know, at that point you could at least say, well, they’re the same language. So even though they’re not from a country that was made up of immigrant waves they, they came from the seed culture of that country. Maybe you could say that about Germans as well, because they were about 50% of like early American immigrants in, in a lot of regions.

Yeah. But outside of that, if you’re talking about, again, Italian, French. Irish Spanish polish immigrant waves. They’re significantly more culturally distinct from the United States than really any immigrant waves that’s coming from Latin America. I’m not saying this to say indiscriminate Latin American immigration is a good thing.

I have long said, I do not think it’s a good thing. I’m just saying that, we also need to be realistic about it, especially when we consider our blessing, when contrasted with immigrant waves that are heading into Europe which are very culturally distinct from them. Yeah. And second, I think not understanding the [00:29:00] similarities of the Latin American immigrant wave into the United States can lead us to making mistakes and act like.

Deporting or dealing with immigrant populations from regions that are not Latin America should take equal priority to the Latin American immigrant waves. Which is where you get these, you know, giant you know, Caribbean, for example, immigrant waves into the United States, which are much more culturally distinct from the United States than the Latin American immigrant waves or immigrant waves from, you know, refugee populations in like the Middle East.

And people are like, oh, this is the same as like Latin American immigrants. And it’s like, no, it’s not the same as Latin American immigrants. And so, if we’re gonna begin to recognize again that different populations are actually different and that it is useful for us to understand this when we are talking about immigrant waves and thinking about, as I’ve always said, the way I see diversity is that it, like you never want diversity for its own sake.

But you also [00:30:00] probably don’t want just the normal. You’re, you’re probably better with like ingredients on a dish with a few complimentary ingredients. A dish doesn’t get better just because you’ve added more ingredients, right? You know, some ingredients just don’t go with other ingredients. And in a a, a culture where you know, it is normal to marry off your daughters at nine, maybe doesn’t go as a culture where sleeping with a 9-year-old is illegal, right?

Like these two things might be culturally incompatible. And. That however, is is is not really the case with Latin America. You don’t, you don’t. In the United States you know, when you get problems with like immigrant rapists in the United States, it’s, it’s literally be because these people are criminals where they came from and they’re criminals here.

And the reason why they’re able to get away with their crimes is because the Democrats are so pussy footed around actually dealing with criminals if they happen to be immigrants. Which is bad. And, and you do need stricter. And I, and I believe this history, you [00:31:00] do need much stricter policing in any region where you have a high proportion of Catholic immigrants because they’re just more predisposed to criminality.

that’s gonna be clipped out. But if you look at the early Irish waves, if you look at the early Italian waves, how was the crime sprees that came out of those waves dealt with? They were dealt with an increased in. Sort of a police state within those regions. And if you look at the period after you have those initial immigrant waves, places like New York became something of a police state.

So I think that, that we need to be realistic about why you can’t just take any population in whatever you want it wishy-washy, you know? Anyway. Your thoughts, Simone, on the whole Latin American nerd thing, or Latin America’s cultural proximity to the United States. I can’t hear you by the way.

Simone Collins: I know I muted myself ‘cause he, it’s

Malcolm Collins: okay if he’s crying.

You can still talk.

Simone Collins: I, I like it. I, I, I think it’s a sign of, of, of greater [00:32:00] compatibility. Plus also I feel like the more nerdy collective is the, the more I, I’m comfortable trusting them and, and integrating them into society. ‘cause obviously we have a very nerd friendly bias here. So I’m all for it.

I love it. And I, if I don’t, I don’t know, even if it isn’t a sign of similarity, I would say it’s a sign of of favorability.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, I think that this also really applies with when we were talking about all of the Spanish words that are actually we associate with the Old West. When we talk about potentially integrating a country like Mexico.

Because we mentioned this in another podcast with the revolts that are happening in Mexico right now. And it would help us a lot in terms of immigrant waves because if you could put the border at the south of Mexico, it would actually be defensible.

Like that’s an actually defensible short choke point.

If you put the border where we have it now. It’s like literally comical to attempt to defend it. Like we, we try, [00:33:00] but

Simone Collins: there’s no way, there’s no way you,

Malcolm Collins: you can’t do it. Like it’s, it’s, it’s going to be incredibly porous as it is right now. But the reason why Mexico is uniquely cogent with US cultural history is because it’s literally when you’re talking about the history of the old West, if you’re thinking about people in.

The cowboy hats. With the cowboy boots being a cowboy, that lifestyle was practiced from the United States, well into the region we call Mexico today.

That that is a,

Simone Collins: not even just, it was just flat out in the region that was Mexico and eventually the United States took it and No, no, no, no. But

Malcolm Collins: I’m talking about still into the parts that are Mexico today.

Simone Collins: Sure.

Malcolm Collins: It’s not like it was just the parts that became United States. It was. A a culturally like the west was a culturally uniting thing, and the core difference between the two cultural groups was one was Protestant and one was Catholic.

Mm-hmm.

And yeah, I mean, people know my thoughts on that.

But I, I sort of feel like [00:34:00] the cat’s out of the bag already in the United States was, was Catholic immigrant groups. So if, if we’re not going to oppose that, then I don’t see the reason to oppose Mexican integration.

Simone Collins: I like it. I like that you’ve, you’ve. Turned your episode on Latin American weaves into a, and this is why we should integrate with Mexico State 51st State Mexico, 51st State.

Let’s go.

Malcolm Collins: I’m by the way, their fertility rate is already below ours for people who don’t know. Well, and I also

Simone Collins: feel like right now, like at least Gen Z in Mexico is ready. They’re they’re ready.

Malcolm Collins: And I, yeah, and I would say for people, they’re like culturally nothing like the United States. I’d point out they’re beating us in obesity right now.

Okay.

Simone Collins: They’re more American than Americans.

Malcolm Collins: They’re beating us in obesity. Yeah, man. We were

Simone Collins: like, we’re, we’re number one. We’re number one. And now we’re not anymore. We have to integrate them to, to regain our status. To regain

Malcolm Collins: our status in obesity. Yeah. Anyway,

Simone Collins: we can do, [00:35:00]

Malcolm Collins: do it. Simone. Again, I’m not actually pushing for, for integration in Mexico.

I, I, I think it, it’s probably not worth it. It would just cost too much.

Simone Collins: I just think right now Mexico’s way too much of a security liability. I, I don’t, I don’t think that the gangs are as easy to take out as a lot of people think they are. Yeah. I think that, I mean, this is a, it’s a distributed gorilla insurgency.

You, you don’t just take that out easily. Even though we have amazing military might, they’re very, very difficult to take out.

Malcolm Collins: No war dealing with the, the, the Mexican gangs would one. Because they threaten politicians so frequently. You basically need to remove democracy from the region for a period.

Yeah.

And two, the war to deal Izzy’s game would look like what’s happening in Gaza right now.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, and also like Mexico is a huge country. Just like to to, to fully put them down would be much harder than it would be in Gaza. Gaza’s, a concentrated. Very small. You could just go geographic region.

Malcolm Collins: Mexico is supposed be very mountainous country. [00:36:00] Yeah. Like

Simone Collins: in Mexico, like there’s a lot of places to hide. I don’t, I mean, it’s, I, I don’t know how I would deal with it. So it’s a very tough situation.

Malcolm Collins: There’s also a benefit to having Mexico on our border that a lot of people don’t think about. Which is doing manufacturing in Mexico is artificially cheap because of the gangs.

Really? Yeah. So if you were to set up these days, because it’s gotten so expensive in China, it is cheaper on a, on a per labor cost to set up a factory in Mexico than it is in China for ‘cause of

Simone Collins: the gangs.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So Mexico should have. Experienced the same phenomenon China did. I mean, they’ve got NAFTA to their advantage.

They’re right next to it. It should be cheaper. Oh, to

Simone Collins: become more expensive. But because of the gangs, it’s artificially, wages

Malcolm Collins: should have gone up in Mexico. It should have industrialized, but it hasn’t been able to because of the gangs.

Simone Collins: That makes sense.

Malcolm Collins: Which again, is common historically in most Catholic majority countries. I mean. If you look at the gangs, it basically [00:37:00] ruled either Ireland or Italy for periods. It was really horrible.

Simone Collins: Mm. Yeah. Well, at least stay of anime. I’ll give at least stay of

Malcolm Collins: anime. All right. Love you to death, Simon.

Simone Collins: I’m gonna join the other room in four minutes. I just need to change his diaper and give.

Malcolm Collins: So the episode today, my, my conspiracy theory on that,

Simone Collins: people largely agree with you, but I now theorize that there’s this au schizo spectrum when it comes to these things where if you are more autistic, you’re more likely to assume that this is just people being incompetent. And just no one really doing their jobs.

And if you’re more on the schizo spectrum, you assume that it’s a bunch of people.

Malcolm Collins: She’s calling her husband a schizo, by the way, people here. Yes,

Simone Collins: I am.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I’m gonna need to beat you after this. We gotta schedule that because the beating cannot go on air and call your [00:38:00] husband a schizo. Well, I completely agree with you.

I, I’m definitely the schizo here and you’re definitely the artist here. And I think that that’s why the, the podcast works. Yeah. Oh God. Because, you know, people act like we think very similarly, but I don’t think that we do, to be honest. No,

Simone Collins: I don’t think they, I don’t think they think that, I don’t think they think we think super similarly, but yeah, people, people are loving, loving your theory.

I, he’s pooping, that’s why.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I was really disappointed that Tucker with this one so bad.

Sorry, this was filmed a while ago, so you’re not sure what I’m talking about. I’m talking about Tucker Carlson complaining about Epstein, , something, something, something real.

Malcolm Collins: There was one part of it where he like specifically. Like, it was like almost embarrassingly stupid. Which where he had to bring up the, the phone was cracked by a technology invented by a Israeli company.

Oh gosh. Yeah. Gives the screen that look like you know, what’s up. And it’s the. [00:39:00] They didn’t still control it when the, you know, the FBI was using it, you know, oh my God. Tucker’s brain is so cooked. We did lose for the first time podcast subscriber, like paid subscribers for the, for the episode where we suggested cutting off aid to Israel as a pass to reduce antisemitism.

But you know. What you gonna do?

Simone Collins: Screw us. What I mean, I, I, I get it. And, and people are entitled to pay for what they wanna hear, so I respect that. But thanks to everyone who does support us, it makes a huge difference. We really appreciate it.

Speaker 25: Dang it.

Speaker 26: Where did you hear that? I said, dang it. Who says, dang it? Titan does. Titan does. Yeah. Where did you hear that word? On the chair. [00:40:00] On the chairs? Yeah, on the tv. And yeah. From Stacey and John. Yeah, from Aaliyah. Yeah. Well, which one? Stacey and John and Aaliyah and Stacey and John. Does mommy say Dang it? Yeah.

Speaker 27: No, no. Mommy, you don’t. I don’t, no, no. I say worse words when I’m angry. It’s true. What? What do I say when I’m angry? Titan, you cry. I cry. Yeah. Oh, what do you say when you’re angry? Titan? I cry too. Oh, okay. Well, I want you to be happy, Titan. [00:41:00] Yeah. Because it’s, it’s really important to me that you become a happy shark princess.

Speaker 25: Yeah, but who knows? Creaky man. Creaky man? Yeah. Who’s creaky? Man? Nobody’s AK man. Oh, then I guess nobody knows Creaky man. Yeah. Yeah. But where this creaky my wolf. Well, if there is no creaky man, I guess he doesn’t live anywhere, but, but where does the creaking, my wolf, the creaky man? Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know about a creaky man.

Speaker 27: Maybe there is one, but I don’t know him. Do you know the creaky man? Yeah. Tell me about him.

Speaker 25: I think Creekmore loves in a cave. In a cave. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it [00:42:00] loves in a cave and that’s so spook in the cave. Mm, that definitely makes sense. The Creekmore loves in the cave. He do lives in a cave. Yeah, it’s a giant cave. A giant cave. Yeah. Does the cave have a refrigerator in it? No.

It the, the giant cave has nothing in it. Only creaky man. Yeah. It has a C creek man. And that’s a pink cave. A pink cave. Yeah. Well, my two favorite colors a pink and purple. Is it a fabulous cave? Yeah. Yeah. Pink and purple. The came, well, I, so it’s a pink cave and it’s fabulous. Creaky man lives in it. It does not have a refrigerator.

Yeah. Aside from creaky, man, there’s nothing else in the cave. Is there [00:43:00] anything else in the cave That’s pink and purple? Yeah. What? What else is in the cave? There might be pink and purple and blue in there. What? What in there is pink and purple and blue furniture. Does he have a couch? Does he have a bed?

Yeah. Does he have a dog? No. I Does he have dinner? I think so. What does he eat? He eats. He eats carrots and dinosaur nuggets. And ketchup. Really? Who else eats carrots and dinosaur nuggets and ketchup. We do. Oh, is creaky man us? No, he is not. Oh, okay. I was just checking the creaky man. Just a something. Oh, a cave.

Speaker 27: A cave. A pink. A pink cave. Yeah. Pink and purple and some blue. [00:44:00] Yeah, there’s some blue on your face. Did you know that? Yeah. I think you drew on your face with your pens.

I love you, Titan. I love you, mommy. Dad, can I have a, when you finish your dinosaur nugget, okay. My dinosaur, yeah.

Malcolm and Simone Collins dive into two fascinating (and very different) trends among young women: one group that’s happily dating but swearing off marriage forever, and another group embracing intentional celibacy in response to modern hookup culture.

Why are so many high-achieving women rejecting marriage altogether? Do they have a point about autonomy, identity, and avoiding “unpaid labor”? And why are younger women opting out of sex entirely — claiming dating apps have ruined intimacy?

We break down the articles, compare the two groups (with some brutal phenotype observations), discuss how media shaped different generations’ views on relationships, and explore why both paths ultimately lead away from family formation.

From Tinder height discrimination to the rise of “divorced woman” as an aspirational identity, this episode examines the collapsing sexual and marriage marketplaces — and why pronatalism offers a radically different vision for fulfillment.

Episode Transcript:

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] And I feel like women have unironically recreated that society on like Tinder and stuff like that.

Speaker 6: Ah. You seem to have grown since last. You stood before a

Redditer.

Speaker 2: .

You’ve been assigned to the planet Bloch, home of the slaughtering

Borderline women.

Speaker 2: Why would you trophy?

Speaker 7: However, because of your increased height, we have decided to give you the planet Vort home of the universe’s most comfortable couch.

And career women who genuinely believe you’re making a major sacrifice by being a stay at home husband.

Speaker 4: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Go to the, the trash planet where you’ll be eaten by rats and no one will synthesize.

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are gonna be going over two articles that are covering two related phenomenon, but entirely distinct phenomenon.

One is the large number of women who are dating still, but refuse to get married. And then the [00:01:00] other is the large number of women who are choosing to become intentionally celibate. And what’s really interesting about these two populations and it, it’s cool because I think that our audience will find themselves like, oh, this population may have a point.

This population may not have a point. We’ll see. Right. Like civilization. Yeah. They phenotypically look very distinct. And I will put collections of pictures on the screen here. Oh, so you, the fans can try to guess which population is which. Mm. So I sent you pictures in two groups. We got group one and group two of women on

WhatsApp.

Okay.

Simone Collins: Let’s, let’s take a look here. Let’s see. I, I’m sure I can my assumption is that I can guess in what. Whoa. Hmm. Huh,

Malcolm Collins: interesting. So group two and group one, which one do you think refuses to marry and which one do you think is intentionally celibate? And if you’re looking at the screen here the number one thing you’re going to note about the two groups is one [00:02:00] is fairly attractive and one is quite unattractive.

Simone Collins: Wait, which ones are the attractive ones?

Malcolm Collins: Compared to the other group?

Simone Collins: I, I don’t know. I, I, I guess all the faces just look like stick figure faces to me. Maybe I’m like, face blind one looks like they have too much makeup on. And I guess I have to associate too much makeup with, actually doesn’t interact with men.

So then, then the second group with the too much makeup, which you would say is the more attractive group, is the. Intentionally celibate doesn’t interact with men group. Do I have that right?

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Ah, so the, the group that wears more makeup, which is one of the things you’re noticing Yeah. The group that is celibate mm-hmm.

Is wearing more makeup.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Which again shows that makeup is largely about interesting. No. When you’re wearing

Simone Collins: drag queen levels of makeup, you are not trying to attract the male gaze.

Malcolm Collins: I disagree. I just think that lady is a Latina from Florida, and a lot of Latinas from Florida look like that. No,

Simone Collins: no.

[00:03:00] Women wear excessive amounts of makeup for other women, not for themselves. It, it, and it also for like gender euphoria, which I think is negatively correlated with

Malcolm Collins: fertility. And, and the other women specifically for me, the women who are refuse to get married just look like actively unpleasant,

Simone Collins: In a lot of the pictures.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Like they, yeah. Just like

Simone Collins: main, like attractive enough, but, but, very progressive women who are more maybe disagreeable.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Mean disagreeable. Mm-hmm. Is the core sort of look they have to their fa and you can tell a lot about somebody’s phenotype, but we’ve gone over this in a different episode is for novel brack with ai.

But we point out that you can actually tell a lot about a person by looking at their face, right? Mm-hmm. Like looking at their facial structure. And people can make guesses with high probability. We go over all the studies in that episode. I’m not gonna like cite them all here. What somebody’s behavior is, and AI can do this exceptionally well.

Like an AI can look at your face and tell a ton about, oh, oh, oh, [00:04:00] hold on. Simone, did you realize something? Take off your glasses for a second. Take off your glasses so I can get a picture of our face to put into AI while I’m editing this. Oh, God. And, and look straight at the camera. And I, I want to ask an AI what it thinks our personalities are from our face.

It can do that.

So I put in Simone’s face, the image you see right here and with her rather than me. I asked it to use like not facial expression at all, just based on physionomy, it says. It says she’d probably come across as intelligent, open-minded, intellectual, with strong communication abilities, and a diplomatic, harmonious approach to life, likely empathetic and tolerant with a logical bent that makes her organized and idealistic.

Malcolm Collins: Well, let’s see.

Simone Collins: All right. But I think if I, if I change my facial expression, it’s going to give a very different response, right? Like, if I look happy, I think, I think AI’s not sophisticated enough to tell the difference between a resting face and [00:05:00] a facial expression.

Malcolm Collins: Well, you know what, let’s see, right now I’m gonna put this in.

I, I, I can’t even wait. I’m gonna put my face in. What would you guess male’s personality is from their face characteristics? Oh, no. What? Oh, I’m even getting an ab response here. So, so, oh,

Simone Collins: yeah. Grock was doing that for me today too, and I like it.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So, it says that I’m a male in his late thirties to early forties, which is accurate.

Yes. The other one says late thirties to early forties, which again, is accurate. Yes. Okay, so, personality traits. Okay, so one says, friendly and approachable. The other says, warm and approachable. One says, kind and empathetic. The other says, outgoing and extroverted. The, it says intellectual and thoughtful.

The other says optimistic and you weren’t even wearing your glasses. How did it know? Yeah. The other, the other says, optimistic and good humored. A bit [00:06:00] playful slash humorous. Creative or expressive reliable, steady pathetic. I,

Simone Collins: all these things prove, but is it not just saying flattering things and then we just tap to agree with him?

I’m sure it’s just this is too

Malcolm Collins: flattering. Like,

Simone Collins: say something

Malcolm Collins: negative. No. Take, take

Simone Collins: a picture of Hassan Piker and put it in.

Malcolm Collins: I don’t wanna do that. I don’t, Gordon in Peterson. I don’t wanna risk saying positive things that, that could get us demonetized on our fan base.

Simone Collins: Oh no.

Malcolm Collins: Lose us subscribers here.

Simone, I’m gonna keep going here. So me generation, I do not young women who refuse to get married and vow to never change their minds about it. Becoming somebody’s wife isn’t something New Yorker. Carly B 29 ever wanted for herself a 29-year-old New Yorker.

I love, we’re jumping right into the deep end with this. Okay? Happily in love with her boyfriend of nine years. Check, marrying him. Absolutely not. That’s no reflection on Matt H 30, according to Carly, who works for a PR branding agency and asked that the couple’s last names not be [00:07:00] used before the pair met.

The 29-year-old had always made it a point to avoid romantic involvements with the kind of men who wanted wedding bells and kids. Quote, it was a very prominent ground rule for me before entering any sort of relationship. The East Village Dweller told the Post, I don’t necessarily need a contract that tells me my status was my partner, or tells me that I love him more than I would without one.

I know exactly how we feel about each other and I feel good with just that. Putting a ring on it, locking things down, heading to a city hall for a piece of paper, not Carly, whose parents divorced and aren’t the reason, and that’s not the reason she doesn’t want marriage. Mm-hmm. When the Pennsylvania natives met on Tinder, they are questioned about their plans for getting hitched 29-year-old was brutally honest with them. I usually say, that’s not something I want for myself. We’re never going to talk about that. Carly admitted, I think me saying that makes them think there’s something wrong with our relationship. But no, I made the decision.

I’m going along with [00:08:00] it and that’s fine. So I find this really interesting so far. So basically you’re seeing a new culture emerge, which is almost going to immediately die out ‘cause none of these women are having kids where they are attempting to normalize. And it makes sense from an irman culture perspective.

If you’re searching for pleasure and self validation, kids and marriage even for women can be quite bad. But to continue here, i’ll skip ahead of it here. There’s a wave of women, and this is a quote from one of them, either thinking, rethinking marriage, or skipping it all together. And it’s getting louder every year.

It’s about autonomy, peace, and building lives in what feels right, not about what tradition dictates. Relationship coach Dr. Jack Hill. Del Rosario told the post, I’m the one who’s pushing this harder than he is, but he knows it has known it since day one. If there’s ever a thought that he wants marriage and a family beyond what I can give him, then he would need to break up and figure that out in other ways.

I actually find that, to be very honest, I appreciate that she was upfront [00:09:00] about it from day one. And you know, if you’re, if you’re gonna do this, at least be upfront about it. And I think that that’s a lot fairer. And I think that women who do this. Are more likely to be upfront about it than men who do it.

Where, because men can get higher quality partners by pretending that they want marriage and women typically get lower quality partners if they say that they’re in this for a long-term relationship and don’t just want casual sex. Mm-hmm. And that’s because well, as anyone who watches this, probably knows women have an advantage on the sex market.

Men have an advantage on the marriage marketplace. But that advantage is bigger for women on the sex marketplace than it is for men on the marriage marketplace because it’s easier to lie about not being on the marriage marketplace for a man or being on the marriage marketplace Anyway.

Considering today’s generation of young, independent women surpassing men in earning college degrees, buying homes on their own, which has nearly doubled over the last 40 years, and achieving sweet street positions at Fortune 500 companies, which has increased from 15% to 29% over the past eight years. The million dollar question remains, do [00:10:00] women benefit at all from marriage in 2025?

And the question here is, what does benefit mean? You know, if if they want a family and they want kids and they want a stable relationship, I mean, obviously yes, a marriage is very useful in achieving those things and helping be a forcing function in the things that you need to do to live that life path.

But if you just wanna hang out, you know, it’s fine. Like you don’t need to, actually, I was queued into these. So other people don’t know. We did a weekend episode about this and it has exploded since the weekend episode. It’s literally like twice as big as it was when we did the weekend. Episode is our subreddit, is where I learned about this.

And the Basecamp subreddit

is frigging huge, like ridiculously large. So an example of what I mean by this is it gets a hundred 90 4K weekly visitors and 43 K weekly contributors. So for our, our VIP fans who heard about this last time, this is more than twice as big as it was when I was shocked by it last time.

To give you an [00:11:00] idea of like what that means if, if you go to Joe Rogan’s subreddit, we’re at 190 4K weekly visitors 43 K weekly interactions. His is 308 k weekly visitors, 8.9 k weekly interactions. If you go to the ESMA Gold subreddit, so, so. We’re astronomically bigger than Joe Rogan in terms of weekly interactions and only a bit smaller in terms of weekly visitors.

Like he’s not even twice as big as us. If you go to ESMO Gold 360 4K. So again, not even twice as big as us. And only 11 K weekly interactions where we’re at 43 k weekly interactions.

Crazily. We have yet grown again since we filmed this. The subreddit is now at 247 k, weekly visitors and 58 K weekly interactions.

Malcolm Collins: So I have an episode where I go into like, what could be going on here? But they, they had this, and an interesting thing here where we’re talking about, oh, women are doing so well in society.

One of the top posts is, are women more oppressed or do we just not give a damn about men and boys? And it points out that now college graduates, there might actually be more than on this graph because [00:12:00] men drop out of college at higher rates, two female college graduates over the next five years for every one male college graduates good.

And then it shows domestic violence. Victims more male than female homelessness. Only 75% are male, 25% are female. And it’s much harder to get homeless shelters as been unloving rates more than 70, it looks like 76, 70 7% male. Workplace fatalities you’re looking here, it looks like 90% male combat death since 1991.

Basically all male. And oh, victims of forced circumcision. They, they have that as that’s, that’s quite a, a Reddit complaint. We should do an episode on circumcision someday. That would be a lot of, no, would, probably

should.

Yeah. We have one episode where I argued that I don’t even think that we’re doing circumcision.

Right. This is one of our religion episodes if you wanna Oh, you mean

Simone Collins: in terms of methodology, like the way the cut is done?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. This is the episode called The Question That Breaks Judaism, and we go into, we have archeological evidence, and, and Jews say they came from Egypt, right? Oh, that it

Simone Collins: was done differently originally.

Well,

Malcolm Collins: that circumcision [00:13:00] meant something different in the past. Yes. That the word meant something different. Well, what. So we have evidence, if you don’t wanna go into the full episode on that, because it’s like a four hour long episode called like, yeah.

Simone Collins: TLDR Army, please.

Malcolm Collins: And we go over historic evidence ‘cause we have from like mummies and stuff, we can see what their circumcisions looked like.

Which we don’t have from ancestral Jewish property. Mommy don’t?

Simone Collins: No.

Malcolm Collins: And, but they look like

Simone Collins: owl pellets gross.

Malcolm Collins: They, they Egyptian priests did dorsal lateral circumcision. So not all the way around. Not a circumference, but just like up and down, basically just cutting a slit in it. And the reason why we would have evidence to believe that the early Jews were doing it the same way is because in the early Jewish communities, they said we are a community of all priests.

Like every, every man is a priest. Oh. And so it would make sense that they might have, living in Egypt at the time and being aware of this purification ritual might have, drawn it from a common source, but just as a sign that everyone in the community is of the priest class. Which is, I, I find to [00:14:00] be really fascinating.

Like I don’t believe this hard, I don’t, I don’t like, I think this is one of those things that I’m not that solid on. I, I think it’s like a 25 to 30% chance, like a good chance, but still pretty good. Like, you don’t know because we just don’t have a lot of evidence. Like there, there’s like a a thousand year gap in what definitionally a circumcision was between it being mentioned for the first time and then us getting any records of this is how it’s actually performed.

Simone Collins: That’s so interesting. Right.

Malcolm Collins: We could do a circumcision episode.

Simone Collins: I, I don’t know how much we can talk about things that are done with sharp objects to private parts on YouTube.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Maybe they won’t

Simone Collins: like that. Maybe not. Maybe that’s a Patreon episode. A substack a paid Substack episode. You know.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, so, there is evidence out there that men do actually gain more health and emotional benefits from marriage.

It’s one of the women talking, as they usually receive more support than they give out. Mike Kosik a hormone [00:15:00] health expert at Balance. My hormone stole the post. Oh, this was a male who said this. Without balanced responsibility, marriage can feel more beneficial for men. Jess Iko 30 couldn’t agree more.

She and her boyfriend, Ross Anton, 32, have been dating for five years and are head over heels for each other. She just doesn’t see a wedding in their future. As the oldest daughter of three, the New Jersey native, who owns her own social media marketing and content creation agency, told the post that growing up, she’s always been independent and career oriented, never giving relationships or marriage.

Much thought. Despite being married, raised by happily married parents. I was never like. Oh, I’ll wear this wedding dress, or I can’t wait to have a big wedding. Instead, I would watch romcoms and think, I want that career. I want her closet. She shared with the post, and I think that, that you’re, you’re getting a lot of information on why these women chose this, right?

Like they were raised in a generation where they did not have aspirational marriages to look at was envy.

Simone Collins: Well, how [00:16:00] many popular films, media or TV shows depict the hero’s journey for a woman at the very least in which marriage is, is the dream at the end. There’s certainly happy ever afters for like Disney princesses, but no one really watches those anymore.

And the more recent Disney princesses don’t get married at the end for the most part.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. All the recent Disney princesses are not about getting married, but about how your parents are terrible. Like that’s like every recent are

Simone Collins: what, what are really popular movies that have come out, which depict a woman?

Malcolm Collins: Or trauma really trying to get married. If you look the modern female journey, like modern hero’s journey mm-hmm. It is realize you have trauma, face trauma, overcome trauma. Mm-hmm. And so I think women are, instead of what they used to want their fairytale ending, right, their fairytale ending now requires the trauma.

So they invent the trauma which we’ve pointed out is very easy to do in studies. . One of my favorite studies on this that we’ve talked about before shows that people [00:17:00] who say that they were abused at kids, the amount of abuse that they say that they experienced is correlary with how much effects that they have from that abuse on like their daily behavior patterns and everything like that.

Mm-hmm. But it’s completely uncorrelated with the amount of abuse they actually experienced when that is searched through, you know, court records and stuff like that where we have some, some evidence of whether or not they were abused or not which is wild. But anyway so I love that the new heroes journey that they’re going down is how do, how do I build my trauma oh my gosh.

And a career and all that.

Simone Collins: Well, especially when you consider this, these these general trends in the context of the trend of women choosing to identify online as divorced women, that it’s like a point of pride in something that they. Want to identify with. So even when you went through the whole process of getting married, then you actually feel enough of a sense of reward and social cachet by very being, like being very publicly divorced, that you would go on and be, [00:18:00] you know, get a divorce ring for yourself, be prominent about it, post online about it, that kind of thing.

Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so, and I think that she actually understands the point of marriage very well in terms of why she’s not doing it. I don’t think it’s a disillusion about the point of marriage. She says now in her thirties, a Klo shutters at the thought at the archaic concept saying, I do even to a man she loves because she believes becoming a wife subconsciously forces women to give up a part of themselves

Simone Collins: and men.

Yeah. You subsume yourself to become part of something bigger than both of you. Absolutely. That is, I mean, I think most people don’t want that to be marriage. They think that marriage is like, oh, I can have an unpaid cordis on now. This is great.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. They think it’s about a sex buddy or something, right.

Like Yeah. One

Simone Collins: on earth. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, I feel like I have such a rooted self-identity. I don’t think I have witnessed many marriages where the woman doesn’t lose herself in the identity of her marriage. Instead of remaining an eye, she [00:19:00] becomes a we, which I think is, is good that she’s recognizing that that is the point of marriage, as we always say.

Mm-hmm.

Becoming, we losing the eye. Right. Life is a journey. I think when lived fully away from the eye, right? Like when you’re a kid, it’s all about yourself as an individual. And the family and the larger family unit often dotes on the, the, you, the eye as the individual. And then as you grow up you then take full ownership of yourself without the external support.

And then you get married and you become a we, and then you have kids and you become sort of the, the, the guardian of the family, like even the wider system. And then you die and you become a story to your kids, right? And, and, and descendants. And so it’s this constant drift away from the individual, and they don’t want that.

And I think that they’re making the right choice given what they, they have been taught to value in life, which is the eye.

Mm-hmm.

Despite knowing they want to spend the rest of their lives together. Ako told Lipo that she had a musician boyfriend who both currently [00:20:00] lived in Pittsburgh, but are in no rush to move in together, have been on the no marriage bandwagon for the duration of their relationship, or at least Ross has acquiesced to his partner’s choices.

Marriage appears to be the best when both parties involved really want it and each other, he told the post, oh, that’s sad. It’s necessity and significance always dwindle when that is not the case. And if you look at pictures of him, I mean, I don’t, I don’t think he was gonna get married anyway, but a Yuko explained the conversation that we have around our futures is more about how we see each other’s careers and how we see a future together in that sense, which I feel matters more than, okay, do we get engaged and get married?

And it’s interesting that she just feels that this matters more because it’s about enhancing their existing identities as atomized units, which we’ve been drifting to with the society as soon as we atomize a family. And it didn’t happen any more recently like, like faster recently. But we point out this didn’t happen with you know, women leaving the household to get jobs.

It happened was men leaving the household to get jobs, and that’s when [00:21:00] fertility rates started dropping in like the 18 fifties to like nineties depending on the country that you’re in. IKO said that regardless of how far women have come in society, she feels that once a couple enters a husband and wife territory, it’s hard for them to avoid falling into stereotypical gender roles.

Some men really want a girl who will cook and clean for them, so they want to date their mom. I can’t even imagine being with somebody who expected those things the entrepreneur revealed. Now what’s interesting was that statement is you definitely did that. I I did you expect to fall into those roles of cooking and cleaning?

I

Simone Collins: really didn’t think about

Malcolm Collins: it

Simone Collins: at

Malcolm Collins: all. It was not an existential fear for you.

Simone Collins: It’s not something I thought about or that we planned out weirdly.

Malcolm Collins: Makes sense.

Simone Collins: I mean, I think in the end I do it because I care more about how it’s done, which is, is how a lot of things work in relationships when they work out organically.

Malcolm Collins: [00:22:00] Yeah. She goes on to say the emotional labor women saw their mom’s shoulder, organizing households. Managing everyone’s happiness doesn’t look appealing. If it’s not balanced. Nobody wants to lose themselves to unpaid work on somebody else’s dreams. If marriage is on the table, it’s going to be on equal terms without sacrificing selfhood.

And this was an expert, not her, but I find that really interesting because that’s how you felt. That’s why you didn’t wanna get married When I first talked to you about marriage. You said, no, I don’t wanna do it because I don’t like the way it made my mom lived, her, her life. And, and your parents even lived in a very progressive family and lifestyle, right?

Yeah, but

Simone Collins: I think it’s different. They’re talking about unpaid labor, et cetera. And what I was really concerned about was I losing like a sense of direction that goes beyond being a caretaker for kids. And as much as I’ve taken on the internal house, cooking and cleaning and I mean at least infant care, you, you do older [00:23:00] kid care.

I, I still very much like we have our work that we do together. You know? And I think that’s, that’s not what women are worried about. They’re not worried about losing their work, they’re worried about doing unpaid labor

Malcolm Collins: or unappreciated labor. I think it’s a bigger thing, expected labor.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Except men for, I think for the most part are like, they’re not unwilling to do it.

They just have such a low, a much lower standard that when they do it like it’s, it’s to a level that is still unacceptable. Like yesterday, you cleaned your room. Am I still terrified to even look inside it? Yes, absolutely. Like your standard of what is clean is like the, the worst nightmare for me of the dirtiest our house could get.

If I was like on death’s door for three months, I took out all of

Malcolm Collins: the, all of the, [00:24:00] the uncovered food that’s very clean. Simone, there’s no reason for mice to come in anymore except for the new food from today. I, I am stabbing in her heart right now. You can look at this. This is, this is a woman being tortured.

This is why she dissociates. If you, if you saw that video, she has to, she’s dis association, enable me

Simone Collins: to enter your room. I, that’s not happening. It’s just not going to happen.

Malcolm Collins: I love, our fan base is all like, oh yeah. I’m constantly disassociates just like the way I love my life. You, I

Simone Collins: love base campers.

They’re freaking amazing. ‘cause they get it, Malcolm, you don’t understand. They just get it.

Malcolm Collins: Whenever I say something like when in the episode where I’d like, I don’t think romantic love is a thing and I expect they’re exactly really controversial with our audience. They were like, yeah, no, that’s, that this is not

Simone Collins: news.

Start reporting news to us again.

Malcolm Collins: Did they say that? Like,

Simone Collins: no, but it’s the kind of comments that we get. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I wanna, I wanna hear news. Okay. So.

Simone Collins: No, I, I don’t mean news, like [00:25:00] interesting new ideas. That’s what people like.

Malcolm Collins: Ah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So other women here saying I think we as women, especially millennial women, have been fed this narrative through movies and the media of the girl and the guy getting together.

They get married, they have kids, they get the house, and they live happily ever after. She explained, what I realized was that marriage wasn’t really translating to my happiness, and I think it would be more of a hindrance. And. This is what’s really fascinating. And I think that this is true. Like she, she’s accurate here.

I think they grew up with the remnants within media. ‘cause if she saw this in media, she’s an old person, right? Like she must be in her forties. ‘Cause you don’t see that in media anymore very often. But even during that time period, it was like, do X, Y, and Z to achieve happiness. But then it told you what happiness was, which was individual self-fulfillment.

And that’s not what a family gives you. That’s not like the purpose of a family, right? Like it’s, it’s telling you to play a completely different game that’s gonna have a completely different outcome. Right. Like

Simone Collins: what’s so crazy though is [00:26:00] that I feel more fulfilled now than I ever did single. Which is so ironic.

Yeah. Go on though. Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: I just can’t really remember a time when I was consistently happy, comfortable, relaxing, enjoying life while I was in a relationship or dating. There was always a worry, a stress, or an annoyance or a frustration, and it just never felt as peaceful as if it was just focusing on me.

Mm-hmm. Sorry. As peaceful as it is. Sorry. As peaceful as it was just focusing on me. I, so you can see here the purpose is focusing on herself. Like that’s the goal in all of this, which I get right? Like, if that’s what you’re into, what good is that

Simone Collins: gonna do though?

Malcolm Collins: By the way, she, she has a, a new puppy, which she took her pictures with.

Of course. One thing I’ve been practicing is just radical. A. Acceptance of myself not having any shame, not feeling bad about any of my decisions, just trying to accept myself and enjoy life. [00:27:00] And I think that that’s, that’s a perfect statement there. It shows that that that is something you feel should feel deep shame for doing, right?

Like if you, if you are a normal person to try to live your life without expectations for yourself. ‘cause that’s what shame comes from, is not living up to the expectations you have set for what you should achieve from your life. Mm-hmm. What you should give back to society. And she’s saying that actually her expectation is to have no expectations, to have no shame, to you know, axiomatic approve of the things she has done of the decision she had made.

And I think it’s worse

Simone Collins: than that because it’s not just about expectations. In fact, if anything, expectations are really weak when you look at scientific. Data, like research, academic research around behavior change, for example, and whether people are actually able to do good things that are hard.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: Really the consistent thing that that changes behavior is if you change the defaults. You know, like if you need to stop eating junk food, you just don’t keep junk food in your [00:28:00] house anymore, you know?

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: And what’s really interesting about having spouses, and especially about having children, is that they force responsibility.

They force selflessness. I mean, at least assuming that you aren’t negligently allowing these people to die and being an abusive partner or whatever. Right. And a lot of people are that, which is really sad, but I think most conscientious morally, non bankrupt people. Step up when they’re presented with these responsibilities that cannot be avoided.

There are no more sick days. There, there is no more sleeping in there. You know, there is no more just deciding to phone it in because someone else depends on you, especially if kids are involved, they really depend on you. And it, it just honestly forces you to be a better person. It doesn’t matter whether you’re trying to be forgiving or not, you know, you’re there anyway.

And you may not always be perfect, but yeah, I dunno. I, I think it’s, it, it, it’s worse than just being okay with who you are. It’s shirking from even [00:29:00] forcing functions that would, would obligate you naturally to be a, a better, stronger, more conscientious, caring, empathetic, and moral person. Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, let’s go to the second group of women to see what they say and why they’re doing it.

The inso. So with the first group, I think, well, no, no, the,

Simone Collins: the intentional celibates, I guess. Yeah, the

Malcolm Collins: intentional celibates. So with the first group, I think they were incredibly clear and articulate, and I’d even say clear minded about why they were making this decision. Hmm. They were making, well, I think they

Simone Collins: have to be, because they have to tell their partners very explicitly what’s going on, unless they’re being really mean about it and misleading them.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But I, I mean, I think it, it shows a degree of self-knowledge. They, they wanted to focus on self-acceptance. They wanted to focus on self-actualization. They did not like, they, they do not exist to contribute to society. Their people, their country, human [00:30:00] civilization, they exist for their own subjective experience of existing.

Mm-hmm. And they saw marriage as being. Incompatible with that. And I think that that’s really powerful, right? Mm-hmm. Like I think that they’re, they’re, they’re right about that. They’re, they’re wrong about why they exist and what they actually will get fulfillment from. ‘cause if you chase fulfillment for its own sake, you’ll never get any fulfillment at all.

Which I, it is a really sort of sad thing as to why that happens. We’ve talked about it in more detail in other episodes, but if you chase. Self-acceptance, fulfillment, your own subjective emotions for its own state. You’re saying that those are the only things that have value in, in, in your life. Which means that you are experiencing personally everything that is good about your existence because your existence is self-referential, right?

Mm-hmm. And you will realize pretty quickly how trivial all of those emotions and self-acceptance actually feel unless you fry your brain with like, hoku and, and, and crystals and [00:31:00] mysticism, right? Well, yeah, but I think

Simone Collins: it’s not, even though, I mean, you’re implying that this works and that they are experiencing hedonic pleasure at greater levels, whereas any hedonic pleasure you get, that, that you know is, is excess due to your being single and totally freed up to focus on yourself.

One, you adjust to it. Two, you’re left alone with your own demons, and I think more vulnerable to depression and anxiety and other mental health problems. ‘cause there’s nothing to fill the void. Only your demon there. The

Malcolm Collins: experience, happiness changes depending on your context in life. So when I say that she is experiencing, let’s say, like more dopaminergic reward pathways.

Mm-hmm. Then somebody who is dedicating themselves to the family. I mean that in the same way a meth addict lying on the street, homeless is experiencing more dopaminergic reward pathways. I

Simone Collins: dunno, don’t you think we are like constantly getting hit by dopamine when our kids do hilarious stuff and make us laugh and do sweet things and make us it?

Is it on the

Malcolm Collins: inside of happiness? But that’s the point I’m making. So if you are [00:32:00] doing something like meth on the streets or fentanyl or whatever, right? Like you are experiencing a level of No, but it’s like an

Simone Collins: empty high and then you have the fallout. Like it’s, it’s not the slow burn high that you really wanna

Malcolm Collins: hit.

You have the fallout and you yourself throughout the entire thing. Okay. Or, or afterwards. Before, in your context, you’re still sleeping in the rain being covered in cockroaches. That doesn’t mean, so what, whatever, you know, the meth addict is to, let’s say her, she is to us, right? Like, she is objectively like maybe hitting these pathways harder in the same way the meth addict is hitting these pathways harder.

Okay. But I would not wish her lifestyle on my worst enemy. Right. Like Right, of course. Anyway, so to continue here, does that make sense to you or do you wanna No, it does. Yeah.

Simone Collins: I mean, and, and that was, it’s, it’s this latter lifestyle that I was personally going for before I met you. And everything got derailed ‘cause I discovered meaning in life through you.

But it, [00:33:00] it was really fun. Like on the surface it was really fun. But then, yeah, I think what you describe is pretty accurate. Like it’s the end of something uniquely fun that I’d planned for myself. I would feel empty and anxiety would creep in and yeah, I felt like I was constantly running from that.

Malcolm Collins: It was scary. Makes sense. Okay, so, now we’re gonna go to the next article, meet the young single women going celibate, but not for the reason you’d expect. And then it, and it has to start with the title. Many of them find it incredibly hard which is interesting because like just everyone used to live this way.

And you’ll see that this is, you see it from the title manana, Zami 29 spent a quote, unquote good chunk of her twenties being celibate. Now I find that, that, that sentence ridiculous in a historic context. The idea that an unmarried woman spent a good chunk of her twenties not [00:34:00] sleeping around is, would be considered the sluttiest thing. You could imagine, if you go back, let’s just say 50 years ago, right? You, you’re not supposed to be sleeping around in your twenties. You stay celibate, you get married, then you have a family. Mm-hmm. Like, what, why is she sleeping? What, what does she mean? It’s, it’s like the, the priest who’s like, well, you know, I only see prostitutes a couple times a year.

Or the, the nun being like, I’m celibate. I just lapse every, you know, few months. But anyway, to continue here. It is like, it’s like that’s not, that’s not celibate. In fact, she purposely did not sleep with anyone for four consecutive years. Ooh. So four years of celibacy, the Floridian told the post, and men have made her decision fairly easy.

According to Z’s generation of young females. Hookup culture aided by dating apps ruined intimacy [00:35:00] hookup culture. This is a woman saying this doesn’t benefit women in any way. It totally only benefits the man. I’m not here to judge. But at the same time, hooking up ruins the part where when you actually find the person you want to spend your, the rest of your life with, it takes away from that special, intimate moment that you have wisdom in quote.

Now, I, I find that to be really fascinating. So basically they’re taking this perspective. I think actually what I’m seeing in the reason I thought these women were more attractive is, is they’re just younger. Oh, okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And that’s the difference. That’s a different generation. So the, the previous generation isn’t going for marriage because they were raised on this sort of mantra of self-actualization, self involvement, be a career woman.

And this generation was raised during the era of pickup apps and they’re just like, these are terrible. And create a terrible environment. And again, I don’t Yeah. Nott even try. I, I, I think, I mean, you do need to try if you wanna find somebody. Right. But you’re not

Simone Collins: gonna try to find someone [00:36:00] though,

Malcolm Collins: right?

Yeah. Yeah. So Kylie Kaputo, a 29-year-old New Jersey resident agrees. I feel like hookup culture was, has ruined dating because it almost feels like that’s the end goal. It’s like people are so trained now to just ask you home wisdom. It’s so bizarre to admit to the post adding that sleeping with someone you are newly seeing quote clouds your judgment on how you really feel about the person.

It’s a very mature thing to say. I agree with that. Yeah. Zami is among the slew of Gen Z and millennial women who are fueling America’s unprecedented sex recession as they seem to be fine with it. So, this is actually interesting and I think I get it. The, the core difference between these two groups, this group isn’t sleeping around because what they really want is a marriage and a dedicated partner, and they don’t feel they’re getting that from hookup culture.

Now as to why they’re not getting that from hookup culture. It’s because you’ve got the, you know, problem where less than 1% of women are sw right. On the average [00:37:00] man. Right? Like they’re, they’re, they are definitionally all going after the same few guys.

Yeah.

Which rewards those guys for bad behavior where they don’t really value the relationships, which then creates the perception in these women that men don’t really value relationships and treat them poorly.

And then you get this you know, horrible cycle here. Yeah. And it’s, and it’s also hard, like when, when I look at men in this generation, when I look at the, you know, subreddit we have where it’s, it’s a lot of gender related stuff. You know, so many of them talk about how hard it is dating as a non-white man.

Which I, I can totally hear. Or how tall it is dating as a, a, a short guy, right? Which again, I, I didn’t like, I was in an easier time period for dating and, I wasn’t dealing with either of those things. Right. So, I had it uniquely easy compared to that community. I, I do like that the community isn’t, at least, it doesn’t seem like spiteful against, like, taller guys and stuff like that.

I just feel like the tallest from Invader Zm

Speaker: here they are, your all knowing, all [00:38:00] powerful leaders, the Almighty toys.

Speaker 2: Thank you.

Malcolm Collins: Like that, that’s, that’s who we are doing the podcast. That’s, that’s literally, it’s so funny in Vayner Zim tried to create like a joke society where everything is based off of how, how, how tall a, a, a male is. And I feel like women have unironically recreated that society on like Tinder and stuff like that.

Yeah, that is, that is actually our society right now is oh, you’re, you’re too short.

Speaker 6: Ah. You seem to have grown since last. You stood before a

Redditer.

Speaker 2: .

You’ve been assigned to the planet Bloch, home of the slaughtering

Borderline women.

Speaker 2: Why would you trophy?

Speaker 7: However, because of your increased height, we have decided to give you the planet Vort home of the universe’s most comfortable couch.

And hot career women who genuinely believe you’re making a major sacrifice by being a [00:39:00] stay at home husband.

Speaker 4: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Go to the, the trash planet where you’ll be eaten by rats and no one will synthesize.

Simone Collins: What in general was the, the sentiment or reaction or discussion on, on the subreddit about this? Like, what was their, and so, or, and therefore just like, women are terrible. You see, you see how bad this is, why I’m gonna be a passport, bro. Like, what, what is there and there for from this? I don’t know. I don’t,

Malcolm Collins: I didn’t read all that comments.

Okay. I find it less fun than the Discord to be honest. But it’s, it’s, it’s active as heck, man. It is, it is incredibly active. I’m just very shocked by this. I do not know. I mean, I know why it’s become a place like the podcast itself isn’t that relevant to the Discord. It’s become a place for people to have political debates.

Because the podcast itself, in the eyes of many people in the Discord, they’re like, they frame themselves as righteous, but they’re actually very centrist. [00:40:00] Which is prob, I mean, I don’t know what political opinion I have that’s not right-leaning. Of, of center, it might not be as right leaning as some people, but but I can understand how a lot of people in like online spaces, if you’re like in the er crowd or something like that, would see us as centrist.

Mm-hmm. And, and I think because of that, because we try to air both sides from like a, a logical and, and, and, and broken down, and I think fair perspective, often, even if we let our biases be known very clearly that attracts the type of people who want to have debates within online communities like Reddit.

So you get this big debate, Reddit, which is why the interaction rate’s so high. As much as you want to blame the other species, you also have to take accountability for why you’re allowing certain people into your life and why you’re okay with letting people basically walk all over you. I love, she calls min the other species, the

Simone Collins: other goodness gracious lady.

Malcolm Collins: And it’s to why you’re letting men walk all over you. The answer is clear. You are going after the guys [00:41:00] who have tons of other options, and so of course they’re gonna walk all over you. That’s just like, think about it from the guy’s perspective, right? The, the problem with all of the men, women sorting to these top few men, which statistically they objectively do on dating apps, right?

Is that the, the, those men are gonna have like five to 10 women each who will sleep with them whenever they want, and Yeah. Yeah. They don’t need to treat you with respect. Like there’s, there’s no need to treat you with respect because you are literally disposable from their perspective. And I think, I think this makes life worse for those men as well.

You know, when they, when they call, well, yeah, they’re not

Simone Collins: happy. ‘cause also they’re not having kids. They don’t have a, a committed partner. I think even men who thought they could make it work where they’re billionaires and they have one committed partner who’s kind of like raising kids for them or something, and then they’re sleeping around.

Like, there are so many now prominent cases, and I might get into some that I’m, I’m work, I’m working on an episode that might get into some of these examples where they just [00:42:00] crash and burn. So even that doesn’t really work. That I just, yeah, no one’s winning in this. Who’s winning

actually Who is winning? Someone has to be winning. I feel like even the dating app companies aren’t winning because they’re, I think they’re losing people regardless. If you, if you help people get married, you lose people. But also people are probably, I think I, I read something on this. Who’s winning

Malcolm Collins: R Fab AI where you can get yourself a simulated partner of the highest scholar?

Simone Collins: Oh, the chat bot platforms. Yeah. Honestly, they’re, they’re way more pleasant to speak with than people.

Malcolm Collins: Well, you always create ones of me, or, or like a character import feature can create very detailed Malcolm’s and Simone’s.

Simone Collins: I think it’s one of the most popular when you, when you go onto the platform at least, is this, just because I keep interacting with it.

But the Malcolm is, is one of the most popular.

Malcolm Collins: Because you like interacting with the Malcolm. [00:43:00] We’ve got a great new audio feature, by the way, now where you can just like push a button and chat with it and then it will speak. Oh, I love that

Simone Collins: feature.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And it works in like five different languages, like totally fluently.

Yeah. As well, which is really cool. So cool. Anyway, somebody from another language tried it and they go, oh my God, it sounded like a real woman. Like, I’ve never seen a Spanish audio translation. It’s very natural. Yeah, there’s a lot.

Simone Collins: And there’s different, even within any language, there’s, there are different ality options and gender options which is nice ‘cause I, I don’t know.

That’s definitely matters. It, it really does have an impact. So I, well done Malcolm. Well done Bruno. You guys are awesome.

Malcolm Collins: Speaking of her celibacy, but then one year turned into two, which turned into three, which turned into four years. I made that promise to myself. Until I’m in a commitment relationship, I want to be celibate.

Okay, Seb Zami.

So one, first of all, I wanna say to what Simona’s saying, we’ve got the site mostly stable now. I’m sorry. It was like unstable for so long. I, I got jumped the gun in announcing it because I’ve never developed software from scratch before. Like this myself is gonna go so well,

Simone Collins: what could possibly go wrong?

You thought,

Malcolm Collins: well, [00:44:00] you know, it, it took a really long time to get it, it, get it as stable as it is now. And, and that was frustrating. But we’re there now finally I’m excited about. I’m, it’s, this is awesome, but to what she’s talking about here, I found this really interesting. They, they, she’s not saying she’s actually celibate.

She says, until I’m in a committed relationship, I wanna be celibate. No, it’s just

Simone Collins: so crazy. ‘cause at least when I was doing my thing. I, I was just celibate. Like I, I wasn’t, but I, I know also like a lot of people have sex drives that probably they have to address. Right, right. And

Malcolm Collins: you do not which, which is I awesome.

Right? Like, I think that that makes like, so much better and easier, especially for the next generation if you’re not Yeah. I mean, imagine

Simone Collins: just pretty much anyone can probably relate to having intrusive thoughts about something, be it food or, or alcohol or gambling or sex or something. And like a life without those intrusive thoughts is an easier life, you know, like if you choose anything.

No, I hated doing through

Malcolm Collins: puberty. I [00:45:00] hated it. I remember I had the thoughts of like, my ideas were so much more complicated so much more interesting before I went through puberty.

Simone Collins: Oh, oh my gosh. So you could even remember back to when you were saying.

Malcolm Collins: No, this is like an experience that I think a lot of guys have.

I mean, I had

Simone Collins: that, I just, it was with mood swings, like, oh, suddenly I’m like anguished and angry and embarrassed and I can’t, I don’t understand why, but I didn’t have it with like, I need sex.

Malcolm Collins: And then you go through puberty and all of a sudden it’s like all of your thoughts, all of your daydreams, they’re on like, sounds terrible.

Sex and hunting and killing. Yeah. And, and, and it’s what all of your doodles are about. It’s the Roman soldiers at war, you know, it’s you know, building empires as well. Right. But, but the thoughts are so like bundled. And before that, I remember I was constantly thinking about philosophy and why I exist and everything like that, which is more what I moved to as I’ve gotten older and my sex drive has died down.

But there’s a period [00:46:00] there where, you know, it was just like,

Simone Collins: couldn’t get, you couldn’t get a thought. And edge was. It sucks.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, you doodling, you know, vikings and, and soldiers and war, and every guy I think, goes through this phase, right? Like, yeah. It’s starships, you know, you gotta take out the Zenoss.

Of course. My God. As you colonize the, the universe,

Simone Collins: I mean, of course,

Malcolm Collins: anyway, after breaking her four year streak last year with someone who ultimately wasn’t worth it, the 29-year-old is keeping that promise to herself. And going back to the no sex bandwagon Zai is just one of many women in her age group that are openly discussing the celibacy journey and encouraging others to do the same.

So accidentally having sex with somebody like once in a four year period while you’re looking for a husband used to not be called celibate. It used to be called. Normal. This used to be like, if you’re talking the [00:47:00] 1970s, this would’ve been a normal middle American woman’s. Sure. Like

Simone Collins: one night stand while you got a little too tipsy,

Malcolm Collins: like once in four years.

Sure. Right. Like, that would’ve been not celibate. That would’ve been i, I screwed up. But no one, not everyone’s a saint. You know what I mean? Not everyone’s Simone. Mm-hmm. From 2010 to 2024, the percentage of youngsters 18 to 29, who admitted to not having sex doubled from 12% to 24% according to a general social survey.

And to make matters worse even more shocking cyclists for young adult females has risen by roughly 50% according to IFS. Mm-hmm. And these strong world women are just adding to that already increasing number quote. Typically, if I feel like things are going down a path where I’m like, oh, they might be expecting something from me, I like to be straightforward and be like, I’m not having sex with you.

And I’m like, that, that’s normal. Yeah,

Simone Collins: that’s pretty normal.

Malcolm Collins: And I literally say it so bluntly. That kind of allows [00:48:00] me to feel not only like I’m in charge, but also if they’re just looking for a quick hookup, then they don’t have to see me again, which I also think is really good, I think is really good for women to not waste anyone’s

Simone Collins: time.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Like me, I, I met you, what did I say on our first date? I’m looking to get married. I was like,

Simone Collins: oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Sorry. I thought I was thinking about what you were saying on, on our second date, which is Oh yeah. My mom told me when I was a teen that if a girl doesn’t go down on you, if by the second date she’s just playing games.

Malcolm Collins: Third day. Third day. She third day. Is

Simone Collins: that what she said? I can’t remember what her, her words of wisdom were on that front, because I didn’t hear them from her directly. But

Malcolm Collins: I mean, that was in her generation that she grew up learning that. Right. You know? Yeah. And I do think that was normalized when we were growing up.

It was, yeah. That like a woman, you were weird because you didn’t sleep with people, right? Like Yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah, yeah.[00:49:00]

Malcolm Collins: We have the, the whole diary of the year you met me that that’s been annotated and turned into a book for, it was the first book we did. And it’s called Into the Heart of Dork Darkness. And we never published it. And she refuses to give it to like our exclusive subscribers ‘cause she’s like, too embarrassed.

I think it’s a good book. I think it’s a good book.

Simone Collins: I’m glad you think it’s a good book. It can, it can hide in obscurity.

Malcolm Collins: Hide and I’ll, I’ll make sure that it gets published on your death.

Simone Collins: Thanks. Great. Fantastic. I mean, I’ll be dead, so I won’t care. I really, you know.

Malcolm Collins: Come on, Simone. I think you’re really cute.

And, and it’s very relatable and it talks a lot about our time.

Simone Collins: You’ve normalized so much to my death when you die. So and so is, you know, Octavian, but he will be very mad if, if we die before we get, what does he call it? The golden subscribe button. It’s not even golden. Or do you, is there a golden one?

Is he putting that on us? Do we? No, there is

Malcolm Collins: a [00:50:00] golden one. There’s a silver one in a gold one. What are, what are the do you have to get a million

Simone Collins: for? Oh God. So he

Malcolm Collins: expects

Simone Collins: a million from

well then I guess anyone, you know, we, we need to not die until we get the gold one key.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, so at a hundred subscribers you can create a custom URL. Have we ever done that? I think we have a custom URL mm-hmm. 500 subscribers and you become eligible for the expanded YouTube partner program. Which of course we have a thousand subscribers at Major Milestone, you become eligible for the YouTube partner program, which allows you to earn money from your videos.

Okay. 10,000 subscribers, you unlock features like custom thumbnails and access to the YouTube Creator Academy. Wait, you can’t

Simone Collins: make custom thumbnails before you have 10,000? Wait, they can’t, cannot be true.

Malcolm Collins: It might be, I mean, it’s I mean, that was so long ago for us when we started like, you know, dedicatedly making videos again.

No, we had custom thumbnails on those videos, so that must be an older thing. So it, it, at a hundred thousand subscribers, you’re eligible for the Silver Creator Award, known as the Silver Play button. And we’ll just tell him it’s [00:51:00] gold. You know, he doesn’t know the difference, Todd.

Simone Collins: Yes, he does.

Malcolm Collins: At a, at a million subscribers, you’re eligible for the Gold Creator Award.

That’s what he wants. A a million. And then at 10 million, you’re eligible for the Diamond Creator Award. And for, wait, is this, that one just made out

Simone Collins: of glass? Like is it, or does it have a diamond?

Malcolm Collins: I’ve never

Simone Collins: seen it before. I don’t, I don’t know if I follow anyone. Here’s the thing though, is I bet all those people just create those, those slop YouTube videos for. Kids because that’s like that, the only time I’ve ever seen a video that like, or a channel that consistently produces videos that are like 10 million views, 30 million views, it’s always like a, a stupid kid channel.

Malcolm Collins: It’s, it’s, it’s just a crystal award. And then it’s just through this time. Yeah, it’s just see through Crystal. Yeah, it’s, it actually looks, I think, worse than the other ones. Yeah. And then there’s the Red Crystal Award, which is actually pretty cool looking. It’s, it’s a, it’s a [00:52:00] black crystal with like a red play button in the center of it.

Ooh,

Simone Collins: that sounds good. How many do you need that for?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that is those are our family colors that the black and red, that Calvinist. So is that that what we’re going for a hundred million. We’re we’ll never get there. We don’t make content that’s appealing to a mass audience. Yeah, that is

Simone Collins: can do it if he, if he, if he makes kids slop.

Malcolm Collins: But I, I think, I think the silver play button is realistic for us within what are we at now for subscribers? 62,000?

Simone Collins: Our goal for this year, we’re like, oh, if we could do it, it would

Malcolm Collins: be, no,

Simone Collins: we’re at

Malcolm Collins: about 64,000.

Simone Collins: We’re at 63.8. Oh really? Our goal was 70,000. So we didn’t make it, but I thought that it was impo.

Like, I was like, let’s set a goal if 50,000 subscribers. And you’re like, no, it has to be a stretch goal. We stretched. We didn’t stretch far enough, Malcolm, we

Malcolm Collins: didn’t stretch far enough, but I think this year resolutions here, people, we can make it to a hundred thousand. So please subscribe. Our channel was hit so hard by the Christmas [00:53:00] season.

I always hate that that happens. You know, we were getting to a point of like 20,000 per episode. And then, yeah, don’t,

Simone Collins: don’t subscribe for us. Subscribe for our eldest son Octavian. So they, who, who only cares,

Malcolm Collins: they

Simone Collins: literally walks around houses as the, our house as though he’s narrating a YouTube video. Hey guys, just going around my house.

Like, he just loves it. He loves YouTube. He was born in the YouTube. He, he, he

Malcolm Collins: literally born like the guy from that show Truman show.

Simone Collins: No. And like also, he literally, ‘cause he’s autistic, he has these little things he recites. He will literally recite like the sound bites, the clips that people will use in videos as like sort of the new version of reaction gif.

Like, ew, ew. Like, he keeps saying that one and Oh my God, what the hell? Like all the, all the little like sound clips. He does it all the time. Because he is, he is literally born in YouTube. Like he, he, he is the meme, he is a walking meme. He’ll generate his [00:54:00] own memes like that, that spread even to like his a BA therapist are doing it.

His, his thing that he coined was, or maybe it didn’t, maybe it did come from YouTube. Yeah. Tell me, chime in, in the comments if Helicopter, helicopter was. From YouTube, our kid or like from YouTube. ‘Cause maybe this comes from some video, like, I don’t know, riffing on whoever made their gender attack helicopter, though.

I think Octa’s genuine gender, if he knew it was an option would be attack helicopter. Not joking.

Malcolm Collins: Attack helicopter would be a cool gender option. Yeah.

Simone Collins: If I could choose gender, I would choose attack helicopter. Shut up. People

Malcolm Collins: like, what the heck? Why don’t I get to be? It reminds me when I was a little kid and my parents said, you can be anything you want when you grow up.

And I said, so yeah, why can’t I be an attack

Simone Collins: helicopter?

Malcolm Collins: I said, I wanna be a tyrannosaurus rexton. Like, and then I wondered why and Titan would wanna be

Simone Collins: a Tyrannosaur. Why

Malcolm Collins: aren’t there more tyrannosaurus Rex? I remember this as a kid. I was like, but if that’s true, then why aren’t there more Tyrannosaur rexes around?

Like how can they go if anyone can become one when they grow up? Like it seems like the obvious thing to want to be when you grow up. Why so many ducks? Why [00:55:00] so few tyrannosaurs, right? Like

Simone Collins: suspicious. No, and we have chickens. We have dinosaurs. Our kids are so accustomed to the idea of chickens being dinosaurs that this morning when they were playing with toys, I, I can send you the clip.

I even took a video of it. They were just cooking dinosaurs in their play kitchen and then feeding it to each other. That’s dinosaurs. Yeah. They’re cooking dinosaurs TV was shoving it in setting the oven to 500 broiling. It makes sense for dinosaur steak. You’d want it.

Malcolm Collins: Of course. No, I mean they think they eat dinosaurs.

‘cause we gave them the dinosaur nuggets, right?

Simone Collins: No, but we tell them that chickens are basically dinosaurs,

Malcolm Collins: which I mean they are.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So they eat dinosaurs. I explained to them this is what dinosaurs are now. No, no,

Malcolm Collins: no, no. So, I love you to death. I love you too for dinner tonight. I’m doing something with pesto, I guess.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Which I’m excited about.

Simone Collins: Pito pesto. I mean, if you want, [00:56:00] I could saute some of the. Nice steak with it, but I just figure like it be, sir,

Malcolm Collins: actually, if I may,

Simone Collins: we actually do have some of those peppers left. Why don’t I just, well, we, pasta that I need to use too though,

Malcolm Collins: if I may. Yeah, if I may. What I’d really like to try with the pesto is the way that we’ve done the pesto historically.

Is fine, but it’s not that good compared to like what I get at a restaurant. Basically we cook up the pasta and then we just mix in past sauce and cook it a bit more.

Simone Collins: Saute it with pasta. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. What I think would be really nice is to actually not like just we, no, we haven’t been saing it in paste.

We have been cooking it, putting it whiz pesto in, in a the, the container where we cooked it in. Right. And basically just letting it cook it down a bit. Whereas what I think would be really good is if you put the [00:57:00] pasta with some pesto in oil in a pan and you fried it with the past stuff.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

That’s, I, I did that the last time we did it because I discovered that’s how restaurants do it. I just, we’ll do it again this time. I guess.

Malcolm Collins: That sounds fantastic. And if we wanna make it really good, could you make it with a, a fried egg on top?

Simone Collins: I used up all the eggs we have this morning.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, no problem. The chickens aren’t

Simone Collins: laying that much right now. They’re not happy. Those eggs

Malcolm Collins: you gave me this morning were fantastic, by the way. You did a great job cooking them.

Simone Collins: I’m glad you liked

Malcolm Collins: them.

Simone Collins: That makes me

Malcolm Collins: happy. Well, you really know your stomach, I think we’re seasoned very well, not over seasoned.

Not under seasoned. I, I, I, I let you know when I’m like, Hey, this could do a bit better. That was, that was on point, Simone.

Simone Collins: Thank you. That makes me glad. Yeah. Eggs and homemade banana nut bread with butter.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, that was pretty good too. You really laid on the butter. So, you know, that’s how you know

Simone Collins: Octavia and Jordan as well.

I made the same thing for, and he is like, I don’t want that. That’s not gonna be good. And I’m like, you just need to try it. And he will discover that you [00:58:00] actually like it. And he’s like, whoa. And it was just gone, gone. At least he tried it. Like toasty will never try because toasty is me.

Malcolm Collins: He’s you, you won’t try things.

Simone Collins: I won’t, I won’t them. I’m not putting it in my mouth. Whatever it, whatever. It’s, it’s not happening. I’m going to eat. Five things and that’s it, but I can still make everything for you. And toasty is just like me ‘cause he’s like, mommy, I wanna make waffles for Octavian. And I’m like, no, we’re only gonna make food that you want to eat.

Like I’m not. ‘cause Octavia didn’t ask for waffles. He is. He’s not gonna eat waffles. It’s so frustrating. But I, the solution is you just get a family and then you make them the food and they eat the food and so you get to make the food and they eat it

Malcolm Collins: to, to make the food. But you used to do this by yourself.

You’d bake sweets and Yeah, then they’d be like,

Simone Collins: oh, what do I do with this? And I’d have to find someone who would take my baked goods or whatever. Now I have a whole family, it’s only gonna grow so I can satisfy my fantasies. That’s the [00:59:00] thing. It’s so much better to be married and to have kids, and have people who can.

I don’t know. I think one of the greatest sources of happiness is doing kind things for people and, and making them happy. And making their lives good. Because after a certain point, you can’t really do more nice things for yourself, you know, and we still do really nice things for ourselves, but like that can only go so far.

The diminishing marginal returns are real. So then you, you can only really get further along by doing kind things for other people, even people we know who are, I would say like professional pleasure, maxers, we’re not gonna name this one person. But like they’ve discovered that even like with no children and even without a spouse, that the only way that they can get additional marginal pleasure is by like.

Giving things away to other people. But in, in this particular case, one person I’m thinking about then just created like an ecosystem of scam artists around them because they discovered they could exploit that. [01:00:00] You know what I mean? Yeah. But like, yeah, I think even people who really are seriously taking hedonism, like, well just openly say, my life is all about being happy.

Discover that you have to have other people in your life to max it out after a certain level. So it just shows the folly of this approach.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway. I love you Simone. You, you are absolutely amazing.

So what did you and Octavian do today?

Simone Collins: Mostly he just got a adjusted to the concept of working from a treadmill desk, which he finds delightful. And I think my. Hypothesis preliminarily is confirmed that, that, especially kids who are the A DHD end the spectrum and especially young boys who just aren’t designed to sit down at a desk and do things, work really well with a treadmill desk, especially if, if they have a secondary screen that’s playing stuff that’s vaguely interesting to them.

So I [01:01:00] queued up a playlist on YouTube for a secondary screen that was just the history of helicopters and I found really cool old vintage films about the history of helicopters. And so that was playing in the background. And then he was going through his phonics lessons and his math lessons on his other Chromebook.

Orin’s Chromebook at the same time, and he was really just able more than ever before to just actually focus on the work and get it which was great. That’s really cool. You

Malcolm Collins: know, I, watching him work today, I was like, oh, this might really work, right? Like, there might be, I don’t

Simone Collins: know. We’ll, we’ll see. I’m, I’m probably wrong and terrible at all of this, but like, I know that for me, having a secondary screen playing something that I mostly ignore and walking keeps the demons at bay.

It feeds them, it feeds the chaos monkeys. And so you don’t have, they’re, they don’t, they leave you alone. And then you all, all that’s left is just you and your focus. It’s so nice.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. All [01:02:00] right.

Speaker 18: I, I actually make it for your mom. Don’t forget I make this for you. I really like it. Octavian. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. You actually try to work my best to make you Oh, I’m, I’m, I really like it. I love the American flag and the British flag. What’s the, what’s the good team? This team, and why is it the best team?

‘cause. We love America because we love America, and it is so great that it keeps us safe enough that I really, really, really want to make this for mom because I think we would want to be happy. And I wonder when that remote, the remote for the Tex, for the Tex must be for a field.

Five. Yeah. And I actually made this [01:03:00] also out of nine knits. Magnet tiles. Yeah. Magnet. Yeah. Magnet tiles. I absolutely love it. It looks super awesome. And thank you. High five buddy. Target blocks right there, as you can see. Love you. Target blocks. Target blocks. Oh

Speaker 19: yeah. There they are. Yeah, there they’re, there they are.

Speaker 18: And here’s a dog.

Speaker 19: A dog. Wait where? Where’s

Speaker 18: the dog? Yeah. 15. Oh, the

Speaker 19: dog’s on the, yeah, there he is.

Speaker 18: Look at that. Yeah. And a little sniper right there. A

Speaker 19: sniper. Nice.

Speaker 18: Yeah. Nice.

Speaker 19: The road sign, I mean, a sniper

Speaker 18: right here. Right here? Yeah. There’s a death sign because you meet a death sign. A death

Speaker 19: sign. Yeah.

Where’s the death sign? There’s a restricted zone right here.

Speaker 18: Yeah, we’re stretching.

Speaker 19: Um, toasty can help me find it. I, I know there’s a dust sign somewhere. You heard

Speaker 18: aro. I mean right there. This is

Speaker 19: the medical tent. That’s good.

Speaker 18: Yeah. There some, we need

Speaker 19: that in case people get hurt. Right. Yeah. Where

Speaker 18: is the,

Speaker 19: I don’t know, maybe it’s hidden inside toasty, which is good.

We don’t want all the [01:04:00] hazardous materials to be available to everyone. Right, buddy?

Speaker 18: Yeah. You mean Yeah. Yeah. The dead sign. Dead sign is inside.

Speaker 19: Yeah. Well, they, you should hide the hazardous materials deep inside the building. Right? It’s more secure

Speaker 18: because they’ll not know and they will win because of sound.

Speaker 19: Alright.

In today’s New Year’s Day episode of Based Camp, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive into a wild (literally) real news story: a California man has been sharing his home with a massive 550-pound black bear for over a month — and the government won’t let him remove it! 🐻🏠

They connect it to the infamous “man or bear” debate, discuss insane wildlife protection bureaucracy (wrong bear trapped, noise devices abandoned, homeowner banned from scaring it himself), and explore parallels with protected bat colonies forcing people out of their own homes.

The conversation spirals into fascinating tangents:

* Future of genetically edited pets (talking dogs, odorless ferrets, domesticated raccoons & foxes)

* Domestication experiments (Russian foxes, urban raccoons evolving cuter features)

* Bat biology, dinosaur parasites, superior bird respiration, and WWII bat bombs 🔥🦇

* Why government inaction is exploding (qualified immunity, pothole-fixing lawsuits)

* Self-defense fantasies, Home Alone cultural appeal, and Appalachian trickster vibes

Plus: bear stereotypes, Tasmanian devil cancers, T-Rex diseases, and why humans have the best immune systems.

Episode Transcript:

Malcolm Collin: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. Remember when that thing went around that was like, would you rather run into a random man in the woods or a bear? Yeah. Or a bear. Okay, so what have I told you? And this is, I kid you not a real news story that right now in California.

There is a white man being forced to live with a black bear. Oh, by the California government? I saw, no, I saw

Simone Collins: a headline, but I didn’t click through to it. I think on Drudged it was something like man, man, still Living with Bear, or something like that. Man. Can’t get rid of bear.

Speaker 18: . It’s been over a month since that 550 pound black bear moved into his home, . He can hear it from inside of his home.

Malcolm Collin: Why? Why does it matter?

That he’s a white man. I [00:01:00] don’t know, but it seemed to matter that it was a black bear. So I’m just telling the story as I read. ‘cause no, because

Simone Collins: if it were a grizzly bear, it would be a dead person, a dead body and a house. It’ll be a dead body soon with a, a black bear. It’s a large black bear, bear attack.

When they feel, when they’re approached aggressively or they perceive to be aggressively, or

Malcolm Collin: Simone, it’s living in his house. It’s living in his house. I mean, a lot

Simone Collins: of irresponsible people adopt tiger cubs and lion cubs. This is a wild adult bear. Yeah. Well define wild. You know, when, when, when you discover that, it, it’s been living around cities and people for so long that it, it has developed habits that have adapted to them. In fact, people have found that urban raccoons have developed different morphological traits from Oh, really? Yeah. They’ve, they, they actually have more dog-like traits now. They look [00:02:00] more approachable and friendly.

They floppier ears and I think shorter snouts, they just look cuter. So yeah.

Malcolm Collin: Oh, I’d, I’d be very interested to see you know, when we go to space, if we bring raccoons with us or something. I mean, I think, I think raccoon, I think

Simone Collins: that that’s already been foretold by the Marvel cinematic

Malcolm Collin: universe.

Speaker 3: you stupid raccoon. Don’t call me a raccoon. I’m sorry I took it too far. That meant trash panda. Is that better?. It’s worse. It’s so much worse.

Malcolm Collin: This is the thing it gives true, but like, if you, if you are as soon as we can start genetically editing animals.

Yeah, it’s gonna dramatically open up the types of animals that make good pets. Yeah. And a few that like are lower tier right now Yeah. Are gonna move to high tier with genetic editing. So I know people

Simone Collins: are talking about designer babies. The thing is people are already cloning their pet dogs. It’s first gonna be designer.

And gene edited pets. Oh, right. If people are already CLO dogs, they’re going to [00:03:00] genetically modify pets super soon and already, like I can tell, our next generation is super open to that. Octavian was working next to me this this afternoon, and he’s sitting there and trying to think about what he can invent and he’s like, well.

They already invented helicopters and they already invented humans. And I’m like, well, you can invent a better human. And then he starts asking about alligators and crocodiles and worm versus cold-blooded like I It’s ha, I see the gears turning. Alright, this is happening. We’re gonna have our talking dog soon.

Well, professor two or the Commodore, whatever, we’re gonna name our next dog. It’s gonna be a talking dog.

Speaker 5: . The Soviet put me on a rocket knowing full well I never to return and I’ll die. But one thing even Uck Soviets never do is call me bad dog. God, you just let it go. A bad dog. Oh, it never stop hurting.

Malcolm Collin: But if you put pox P two [00:04:00] in dogs Yeah. It looks like you might be able to get a dog with fairly minor genetic edits that could understand human speech significantly better. Yeah. And, but what I’m saying here is I don’t even know if dogs are going to be the ultimate species to edit.

I mean, I do think we’ll do a lot of edits to dogs, but I think that there’s other species examples here would be ferrets. Ferrets would be a much more amazing pet if they didn’t smell so bad. Oh, I was just gonna say it was like. But the smell, Malcolm, with genetic edits, you can remove the smell problem from What about the greasiness?

Simone Collins: I don’t know. I feel like the, the greasiness and smelliness is a big part of their whole

Malcolm Collin: thing. Physiology.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collin: Well, I don’t know. Again, with raccoons, if you can, if you can make raccoons more domesticated, like a half dog, half raccoon, I think will be, well, we already have those. Like I said, we’re getting closer.

They’re doing it on their own. But I’m thinking, you know, what do you have on? Yeah, we, yeah. In

Simone Collins: other words, we can, we can do this. In one year rather than through tons of generations of raccoons living and dying. I mean, that, that’s your [00:05:00] whole point.

Malcolm Collin: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, and they’ve tried to do this with other animals.

It is hard to domesticate some species. Like there was an experiment to domesticate foxes in Russia.

Hmm. Yeah.

And they went back to a wild form fairly quickly and you, and you can still buy them by the way, if you wanna buy these like semi domesticated foxes really from Russia’s during the, the communist period.

And they developed a lot of traits of dogs like floppy ears and stuff like that, similar to the raccoons. And the, do they

Simone Collins: behave? Mostly like dogs as pets. Should we get a fox next? No, they’re love fox.

Malcolm Collin: They’re smellier. Is the biggest downside. And I, I actually wonder if that’s one of the core things was dogs and cats that we brought out of them with smelliness.

Simone Collins: That’s really interesting. I mean, if you’ve been around a dog that farts. And we all have, I think we can all beg to differ. The dogs are not stinky, but

Malcolm Collin: but most, most non like dog and cat pets that have not been around humans for a long time are quite smelly animals. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, and cats uniquely, I mean, I’m sure that some people have cats with bowel problems or something, but in, in my [00:06:00] entire experience having a childhood cat, I do not recall that cat farting once or making any bad smells once aside from like vomiting sometimes.

Malcolm Collin: So anyway. Well, and, and of course we’ve gotta get to gene edited bears, right? Yeah. So anyway, back to the bears.

Speaker 9: What is a multi bear?

Oh, that’s a multi bear. Bear heads

Malcolm Collin: yeah. Oh yeah. Well, so I’m

Simone Collins: sorry. Wait. There’s a man living with a bear, but. The state isn’t letting him get rid of it. Doesn’t, does California have stand your ground laws? Can he shoot the bear in his own house?

Malcolm Collin: So I, I, I did, I do not, I do not think the stand your ground laws apply to bears. Only humans. And I do not think California has them in the first place. Let’s see. California stand your ground laws. Does California have a stand?

Simone Collins: I’m asking rock.

Malcolm Collin: No [00:07:00] it doesn’t.

Simone Collins: I am in California and there is a bear in my house.

Can I shoot it? Will I be in legal trouble for shooting this bear?

Malcolm Collin: The answer is from, from at least this case. Yes. You are not allowed to remove a bear from your house, so I want to talk about why you’re not allowed to remove a bear from your house. Okay. Actually going to be relevant to a lot of humanity growing forwards as bureaucratic institutions begin to break apart

Simone Collins: as, as, as the bears take over.

As the bears take over. They didn’t, didn’t you guys know the bear uprising?

Malcolm Collin: This is step one. But this is the, I mean, the reason I wanna cover the survey is because it’s so emblematic of many things. He

Simone Collins: hunting. He needs a hunting permit. Is it not hunting season?

Malcolm Collin: It’s not hunting season. It’s winter.

It’s, oh,

Simone Collins: see, that’s the, this is bureaucracy at

Malcolm Collin: its best.

Simone Collins: Well, sir, sir,

Malcolm Collin: you shoot summer,

Simone Collins: you, and it’s not, it’s not [00:08:00] hunting season right now.

Malcolm Collin: I, I would, I would arrange an unfortunate accident for the bear. It’s inside your

Simone Collins: home, the Castle Doctrine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you reasonably believe it’s necessary to protect yourself or others from imminent death or great bodily injury, this falls under California’s self-defense laws penal code 1 97, 1 98 0.5, castle Doctrine for inside the home, inside your home.

The Castle Doctrine dictates a presumption that if you have a reasonable fear of imminent harm, if the bear is acting aggressively, like charging or attacking it, you can just say.

Malcolm Collin: It has to. Yeah. Well, I don’t know. I, this has become a wide enough case that I think they do like a forensic analysis, and I don’t think the real

Simone Collins: case to support this California Department of Fish and Wildlife and law enforcement have ruled shootings as justified self-defense.

When a bear entered a home and showed aggression, even though no permit existed. Simone, but it was charging or acting. Well, this is true. Yeah. You cannot, you cannot shoot solely to protect property EEG if the [00:09:00] bear is just rummaging without threatening people. Deadly forces. Okay, so, so what’s happening is there’s a, there’s a squatter situation.

The bear is not charging him. It’s just like ransacking his home.

Malcolm Collin: A lot of people have been joking on these. The, it’s like a, you know, a squatter situation. It is not like legally that seems

Simone Collins: to be how this is, if he’s not allowed to take the

Malcolm Collin: actual, so see the actual thing that’s, that’s going wrong and why he can’t get rid of it.

And it’s been there since Thanksgiving, by the way, and it’s a 500 wait. That’s a long time. It’s a, it’s a 500 to 550 pound bear. It has done significant damage to his property already. It tore out the water system, so he had to get that shut off. So he has no running water to his house anymore.

A flooded basement with a bear in it. Oh. He can’t do anything about this. Right. And the reason he can’t do anything about it, and Simone, it’s 500 to 550 pounds. It’s a large bear.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So a big gun and a more bullet.

Malcolm Collin: I have not trust the gun to take it down [00:10:00] while it’s charging. Simone I, I, you, you wanna harass this thing to get it to charge?

I don’t, I don’t trust that. Yeah. This

Simone Collins: is, this is why I handle the animal problems in our house and you don’t.

Malcolm Collin: But yeah. So, but I. Before I go further with the story, the reason why I want to talk about this is just sort of the microcosm of leftist insanity like that a, a, a bear living in your house.

They do not see as a threat. They do not care about the bureaucratic downside to this, which is if this bear goes out and like malls someone on the street, this guy is gonna be responsible for it because it was on his property and yet he can’t get it off his property. It fits into the bear or man meme because if a man started living in a woman’s house, I am sure he would be evicted, right?

Like yeah. It, it plays into racial. Oh yeah, that’s true.

Simone Collins: The, the mere presence of the man would be construed as a threat. A home invasion and threat. Yeah.

Malcolm Collin: But

Simone Collins: a

Malcolm Collin: bear is not a threat.

Simone Collins: A bear.

Malcolm Collin: A bear. A bear is just like the kind with, with

Simone Collins: bear teeth and Bear Claw.

Malcolm Collin: It’s [00:11:00] just windy, the poo you can see it like barely fitting coming in and out.

Oh. But anyway, so 500 to 550 pounds. He calls the California Department of Fish and Wildlife to remove this bear. They come and they set up a meat trap and like a big like live catch bear trap. Okay. And they catch a bear. So there’s, there’s like a population of bears in this community. Oh. And they just catch the wrong bear.

So, yeah, they catch a smaller bear. They take the smaller bear away and relocate it. And I love, the guy was even like, and I felt bad about that other bear, you know, like the bear didn’t do anything. Yeah. Seriously. Well, how big of a community of bears do you have in this community? Sweet man. So anyway, like they catch the wrong bear, but they’re, they’re just like.

Okay, we’re done. And he’s like, no, there’s still a bear in my basement. Oh my God. And they’re just like, no, we caught the bear. I can’t even, that’s [00:12:00] insane. It’s exactly like that scene from 30 Rock when he is like, no, I have the government report. There’s no leak in the, in the ceiling. Yes. He’s like, but I can see the link.

Speaker 10: The Celia appears to be leaky. No, it’s not. We’ve looked into it and it’s not. Uh, if you have any questions, I’ll write down my extension for you.

Malcolm Collin: Would, would you come to my basement and look at the bear with me? And then they’re like, oh yes, there is a bear. So then they tried to get it out by putting in some sort of like a, a noise making device. Oh. Which appeared to be working, but then they shut it off arbitrarily and they haven’t explained why and they haven’t come back to try anything else after that, they have made it very clear to him that they are aware that there is a bear in his basement.

Speaker 16: Again using air horns to flush the bear out.

Johnson says it looked like it was finally working until he says they suddenly got a call ordering [00:13:00] them to stand down. Very defeated. Oh yeah. I mean, I just dropped ‘cause like, well now what? It’s all up to me. And what I’m supposed to watch my phone when he comes out in the middle of the night or like sleep in the kitchen and listen for him.

Speaker 17: Every night. I even ask like, okay, so as long as you guys are gone, can I still use the bait to get him? No, can’t.

Malcolm Collin: So he said. Can I get it? So he tried to do things. So first he tried to like play the sounds of like dogs and stuff like that to try to scare the bear out of the basement. And they came to him and they said, you can’t play any noises to scare away the bear. Only we can play noises to scare away the bear.

Wait, wait. He’s not

Simone Collins: allowed to. People are allowed to play anything they want in their own house as long as there’s not, like it disrupts the bear. Brown bears are not an A threat. This is a black bear.

Malcolm Collin: Simone, I’m sorry, a black bear. I’m sorry. Are scientifically more aggressive. Are they? Wait, are wait, are, I dunno.

I’m, I’m making [00:14:00] like fake racist claims. Okay. Because we all

Simone Collins: know that white bears are the most dangerous bears that eat peoples faces. Bears are the most

Malcolm Collin: dangerous bears. That’s true. I mean, at least he doesn’t have a white bear in his basement. Thank God this isn’t even woke nonsense. White bears are genuinely the most dangerous bears.

Yeah. And. And you know, the black bears are very, I think we just base all racial stereotypes on bears.

Simone Collins: Actually. What kind of yellow bears are the nicest, smartest bears, aren’t they? If, if a little rotund,

Malcolm Collin: I saw, wait, Grizz, grizzly, I saw blackberries were the nicest. Or brown. I’m referring

Simone Collins: to

Malcolm Collin: Winnie

Simone Collins: the Pooh.

Malcolm Collin: Oh my God. And Xi Jinping is Winnie the Pooh. Coincidence. Coincidence. Chinese propaganda. The Bear system. The bear system. We got yellow bears. We’ve got

Simone Collins: black

Malcolm Collin: bears, we’ve got brown bears. The the, the Winnie the Pooh is just a sweet little guy. He’s just, he’s just a sweet guy. He’s wise. The Dao, the Dow of Poo.

Simone Collins: Right. Holy smoke spirit [00:15:00] conspiracy me.

Malcolm Collin: Oh, it’s happening guys. It’s happening. So, but, but so he, he’s been without hot water or water, I think at all since Christmas. Wait is so wait, is this man still living in his house? Yeah, he’s living in his house. So he lives upstairs and he can hear the bear downstairs.

Okay. So

Simone Collins: let say he needs to. Pick up a prescription at the pharmacy. How does he leave his home? He just shares the driveway with the

Malcolm Collin: bear.

Simone Collins: He just walks real fast past the bear

Speaker 15: Bear that made its den under an Altadena home, still refusing to leave after more than a month. Now the homeowner there says that this massive bear has done damage to his pipes, forcing him to shut off the.

Simone Collins: and I got like beer

Malcolm Collin: or the bear walking up and down his driveway going back to its home. You know, just wait. So the bear enters and exits?

Yeah. The bear enters and exits the home. Oh, no. Okay.

Simone Collins: Then he needs to reinforce his house whenever the through through a basement window.

Malcolm Collin: Well then he needs to board up the [00:16:00] basement window. Exactly. So that appears to be like the same thing he should be doing that he’s not doing is putting forward what?

Simone Collins: I’m sorry. This man. Okay, now this is, this is looking a little different now. It was a little, it was a little suspicious when he felt bad for the other bear that got relocated first. I’m like, oh, that’s sweet of him. This man cares about bears.

Malcolm Collin: Well, I actually would be a little worried about doing it boarding up

Simone Collins: your base.

Why? Because you think you just destroy, why? Because then

Malcolm Collin: I could force the bear to come through a window. Right? Like this, this is where the bear is, is hibernating, right? Like this is, it’s Well, black bears don’t fully hibernate in this part of California. Mm-hmm. They do what’s called I wanna say like dinning or something.

Or nesting. They hurtle, durl. They, yeah, they, they find a spot that is like hibernation, but they still go out a lot. Mm. But I’d be very worried about blocking off the entrance to my basement that doesn’t go through my living room. If I had a, a very large 550 pound bear coming in there regularly,

Simone Collins: I guess [00:17:00] they do.

They’ll break car windows. That’s, that’s why they tell you if you’re camping in California, just never leave foot in your car. But

Malcolm Collin: hold on, Simone. This isn’t the only case of this happening in the us. So I wanna tell you about another case that happens regularly, which is perhaps even crazier given what we’ve gone through as a family,

Simone Collins: okay?

Malcolm Collin: Now, there have been numerous cases across the US where homeowners discovered large bat colonies in their attics. Or homes and found themselves unable to evict them due to federal or state protections.

Simone Collins: Dude, you just don’t tell anyone and you gas them all. What’s wrong with people? So if we

Malcolm Collin: haven dealt with, we have found rabid bats on our property.

Yeah, like,

Simone Collins: like actually sent in. Tested positive for rabies bats.

Malcolm Collin: Bats ‘cause rabies is very, very common. It is extremely dangerous to have a large bat [00:18:00] colony in your attic. Mm-hmm. Of living bats. And these aren’t even always in the attic. Sometimes they’re like in a room in the house or something. Yep. And they cannot be evicted In many places during maternity seasons, when flightless pups are present, evicting adults can orphan and kill the young, which is viewed as illegal or inhumane.

Homeowners also cannot harm poison or seal bats in the. They must wait till the end of the season so there was a case in. So we

Simone Collins: treat bats in the United States better than China treated its own citizens during COVID-19. We literally do, we’ve gotta probably do this country. Oh, well. At least the bats are okay.

Malcolm Collin: Right. I mean, we did try to use the bats to, to burn down part of Asia at one point. You’re familiar with the whole bat bomb thing during World War ii?

Simone Collins: No. Was this like some [00:19:00] different version of, of Acoustic Kitty, the fire bat.

Malcolm Collin: No. So it was actually a pretty clever system, but they just never implemented it.

Did they just light bats

Simone Collins: on fire and send them away? What happened?

Malcolm Collin: So, they were going to, this was in Japan release bats with small incendiary bombs on them. And the reason they were going to do it is these were bombs designed to start fires. And where bats go to like roost are like attics and stuff like that, which typically have wood are already inside the house.

Detonation. Yeah. So it would, it would’ve been bringing flammable explosives to a location that would be extremely flammable. And, you know, useful to catch on fire in a war time. Right. That makes sense. ‘

Simone Collins: cause my first instinct was why would you try to get bats to deliver anything? I mean, we’ve, we’ve all seen bats fly and they are the flimsiest flyers.

You know, you watch them fly and you’re like, are you okay? Like, I don’t think you’ve got this. I don’t think you’re a flight, A flight animal.

Malcolm Collin: I’ve seen chickens far better than

Simone Collins: you. [00:20:00]

Malcolm Collin: I’ve been watching a thing on bats, and a really interesting thing about bats is there are no terrestrial like sorry, walking bats.

Which is, I know they

Simone Collins: can’t fly. They can’t walk. I mean, the only thing they can do is hang well. That’s it. No, no.

Malcolm Collin: But what I mean is almost every other species that flies has volved walking within some Oh, yeah. Yeah. If anything an

Simone Collins: awkward waddle. I mean, so well that like some just choose to swim and walk instead.

Or just walk and walk.

Malcolm Collin: Yeah. But whether, whether you’re talking about birds which have totally walking varieties or, or flying insects, which I’ve totally walking varieties. Mm-hmm. But you do not get this in bats.

Simone Collins: The walking

Malcolm Collin: bat, the mystery, if you’re wondering the mystery on why this is the case.

The reason why is because bats unlike every other species that has evolved flight, use their legs heavily in the flying process. So it’s, is this

Simone Collins: why they fly in such an embarrassing fashion?

Malcolm Collin: I love you say embarrassing. You are embarrassed about [00:21:00] the way they use it. I see.

Simone Collins: Honestly, I cannot watch them without, ugh.

Like, oh no, come on.

Malcolm Collin: It hurts. It hurts to watch. Well, they’re a very successful cl of species. Like if, if you go,

Simone Collins: yeah, Stephen Hawking was very successful as a person, but you’d watch him wheel along and he’d be kind of like, Ugh, I feel for you, man, like you’re killing it. And he did so much better than most of us, but like, it didn’t look.

Malcolm Collin: Bats, smooth bats have been extremely biologically successful. If, if, if life was to evolve, going into the future, bats would be one of the main things we have around and evolving. You think so? Yeah.

And if you look at life After Man or the guy who did that, he did some other stuff. Douglas something I wanna say.

I really like his books. I really like that. Was Adam,

Simone Collins: the guy who wrote Guide to the Galaxy? Right.

Malcolm Collin: No, it’s Douglas something. Anyway, he, he wrote Man After Man, which is one of my favorite books, and I’ve been meaning to get it again. I had a copy, but I can’t, but they’re like $200 now.

Simone Collins: We’re so bad with names.

I’ve probably got that wrong. You trying

Malcolm Collin: to get it on eBay? And I’m like, well, I’ll wait till we have that [00:22:00] source of income. So we’ll, we’ll get our fab. Hey, our fab is like stable, stable these days. Did you get a chance to test it today?

Simone Collins: No, I’m still adjusting to our new. Schedule lifestyle.

Malcolm Collin: Yeah. But you set up the extra running machine for Octavia next to you.

And he spent all day, like, ‘cause we have a kid at home with us working from home now. Homeschooling,

Simone Collins: not working from, they don’t,

Malcolm Collin: they don’t work yet. We haven’t put him to work. He’s gotta start working in a couple years. That’s our entire, today he talked to me all about the merch he was gonna set up for this show.

Yeah. And like I

Simone Collins: was saying, he’s talking about inventions. He certainly has his mind on making money, you know, and he also named his new toy. What was it, diamond, gold, rich? No. And Rich. No, he, he named his previous toys, gold and Diamond. Now his next toys are rich, so this kid’s got earning potential

Malcolm Collin: and he was explaining merch to me today.

He’s like. Dad, like you gotta make the merch. And then you, you go to your fans and you say, I got the merch. And then you give them the merch and [00:23:00] they give you money. And I was like, you gotta invent the merch then. And he is like, I’m gonna do it. So like that’s gonna be the school project for this year. He has to invent merch for the fans, right?

And so I’ll let him explore what options exist for merch and then next year can be genetically modifying dogs. Right. We’ll see.

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, that’s the thing that’s really gonna sell the genetically modified dogs.

Malcolm Collin: Well you think he could sell that to our fans, I think, right?

Simone Collins: Well, yeah. More than just our fans.

I bet. Even our haters and I love those. But anyway, this guy

Malcolm Collin: has this one island in like Future Earth where a bunch of bats became terrestrial. And one of the most famous like creatures he has is this giant, really scary looking predatory bat species he invented. That’s like a land dwelling and like five feet old.

There are predatory

Simone Collins: bats

Malcolm Collin: already. Well, actually what’s really interesting is the bat that is the closest to being a walking bat. There’s two that are tied for it. One walks further, one walks more [00:24:00] and has stronger legs for doing stuff like jumping and stuff like that. And it, it walks by jumping, oh, do you know what bat this is?

Simone Collins: No.

Malcolm Collin: The vampire bat?

Simone Collins: No. The vampire bat is, that makes sense. Yeah. Because it’s going for terrestrial animals, so it needs more. On the ground dexterity. I guess

Malcolm Collin: another really crazy thing I learned recently, which I hadn’t really thought about before, and I saw like a cool, like YouTube on YouTube, it was great.

Okay. Hearing new ideas. I

Simone Collins: love YouTube and

Malcolm Collin: then I, I condensed it all down for you guys, the fans, so you don’t have to watch these full episodes to get to the points doing God’s work. But it’s that did you know that the skull of Sue, you know the, the giant T-Rex that, that they have the giant T-Rex skull.

Simone Collins: No,

Malcolm Collin: but sure. The most complete skeletons we have of a T-Rex, it has little markers across its lower jawbone that we can match to an avian disease. So we know it was killed by single cell parasites. And in Avians what that does is it causes so much pain that they can’t eat anymore and they have eventually starve.

And so t Rexes were killed. By small [00:25:00] parasites. And the video on was going into how common large parasites were in dinosaurs. And like, like giant ticks, giant fleas, internal worms. And one of the reasons is, and, and this is one of those things I think a lot of people don’t know it is actually interesting to, to talk about if you’re talking about comparative biology is dinosaurs.

Just do not have very good immune systems. And there, there were not good immune systems back then, so like you would just get, we’ve even found like parasites in the nests of dinosaurs, like fleas. So they just grow up and then worms on them, fleas on them, everything like that. Oh, riddled with parasites.

And. It was because they one didn’t have like Dexter arms for like, picking off parasites, like in the way that birds can do it easily through pruning. Mm. Or humans and apes can do it through like a grooming each other. Yeah. They didn’t have good immune systems. And that’s something that people who don’t know a lot about biology like you, I, I actually, I.

What, what biological system do birds have that is [00:26:00] significantly better than biological systems that mammals have? Like what is their super system? Do you, do you know this, and dinosaurs probably had this as well.

Simone Collins: I mean, I. I think their, their lightness of bones is really interesting and useful, but I don’t think that’s what you’re going for here.

Malcolm Collin: No, it’s their respiratory system.

Simone Collins: Oh. Their

Malcolm Collin: respiratory and circulatory system are better than mammalian ones. They’re just like, you know, like you, you branch off and you look at comparative biology and it’s really interesting.

‘cause on some branches you’ll just be like. Oh, they’re like millennium ahead of us in evolution in regards to so to understand why this is the case so in humans, when you breathe into your lung, exhale in your, you’re, you’re, you’re filling up both of your lungs with air that is mixing with the deoxygenated air in your lungs, and then you breathe out of your lungs, and then you breathe out.

So you’re always breathing in and breathing out to like [00:27:00] the same system, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. With, with birds, and I think it was dinosaurs. When they breathe in, think of it like a a circulatory loop.

Simone Collins: That would make so much more sense. Yeah. From a design standpoint. Yeah, completely pressure intake an exhaust pipe.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collin: And you exhale completely exhausted air.

Simone Collins: Yeah. That would make so much more sense. Yeah,

Malcolm Collin: it makes so much more sense. And the, well, there’s other ones that, like, for example amphibians have a totally nerfed heart like circulator. So, wait, but how does,

Simone Collins: is it, is it more than like heart valves in the sense that.

You know, they’re, they’re sort of like one way chambers and like blood vessels with birds. I, I, I mean, you see bird noses and they just have little holes. It’s not like I, oh, this is the bird’s exhaust valve and this is the bird’s intake valve. So how does that work,

Malcolm Collin: Simone? It’s been. Decades since I learned this.

I have, I have not gone over this recently. So I don’t remember. But the point I was gonna make is the one system that humans have that is generally or I’d say mammals more broadly have that is like way ahead [00:28:00] of birds. Usually not, not all birds, but, but most is, are, immune system. We have like just super awesome immune systems.

Oh, thank God. Yeah. And when you think about it, it’s actually kind of wild. There are few diseases that humans get. Now we’re more in an ancestral time, which we’ve talked about with like the fungus, eight people’s faces and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. That you don’t just like get better from. And that that was not a thing historically, right?

Like that, that we have an ability to develop an immunity to almost any disease.

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, on a macro level, there are plenty of diseases that have taken out significant portions of the human population, even relatively recently with the great flu after World War I.

Malcolm Collin: Yeah. You occasionally get these, but you have these in other species.

Did you know that right now? Does it just like the random fact episode at this point? Oh boy. Did you know right now that Tasmanian devils are nearing extinction? Because in other episodes I’ve talked about canine venereal [00:29:00] transmissible cancer, which is a transmissible canines. Yeah. The only other mammal.

That have transmissional cancers. One is a for hamster, it’s like a domesticated thing. It’s, we can ignore it ‘cause it’s so rare. But other is Tasmanian devils and they have two forms in them and they might be going extinct due to these. And they arrived only fairly recently. They’re only like 20 and 40 years old each.

And what devils. What’s really weird is there’s been some recent research into the ancestral bones of Tasmanian Devils, and we’re now seeing that they may have had outbreaks of transmissible cancers in the past. Something about they

Simone Collins: survived it once, at least

Malcolm Collin: they may have survived this in the past, like the idea of like through and wiping out a population and then yeah.

But I found that really fascinating. Any, any random facts if we’re making this a random fact episode? Because I, I don’t wanna bore you with a bunch of stuff about this one story. I mean, I find this story interesting. Well, no, I mean,

Simone Collins: Just, just so we wrap this up because we don’t have to go further, I just, I [00:30:00] just.

Where, where are we? Le is is just to be continued with this guy is the next headline, man found dead in basement, eaten by bear. Like what, where are we going with this?

Malcolm Collin: Well, you, you’ve seen this for a long time. There have been a lot of instances of, road departments, departments of transportation stuff, suing people for fixing potholes.

And we’re sort of entering really a timeline where government services are no longer doing their jobs because they’re just two saddles bureaucratic, quote, forget

Simone Collins: Pizza Hut had that famous campaign where it fixed potholes, but maybe it got permits for that.

Malcolm Collin: It probably got permits for that. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. And, and said like, oh, we have government contractors, and somebody in the government was probably getting paid off. Mm-hmm. But yeah, as an individual, if you fix a pothole, you can be fine for that because you know you’re not doing it officially. There was a case,

Simone Collins: Ron Swanson did it in Parks and Rec, and that’s how he met the woman he married,

Malcolm Collin: worked for the Parks department which which I didn’t realize.

So what’s really interesting about all of this is, in inden immunity,

Qualified [00:31:00] immunity was the word I was looking for.

Malcolm Collin: I wanna say that’s what it’s called, or whatever the thing that means that cops are like subject to different legal stuff when they’re doing their jobs. I wasn’t unaware of this, but this actually applies to all government professionals whether they are like it’s civil servants or no department employees or, so it’s a civil servant

Simone Collins: edition of diplomatic immunity.

That’s really, yeah.

Malcolm Collin: Yeah. So like, they’re probably not gonna get in trouble for not doing anything about the bear. It’s like better for them to just do nothing. Right. You know, it’s a, it’s a big bear. They don’t wanna deal with it.

Simone Collins: Maybe this is what Aspen Gold has been on about so much where he’s like, the key thing is to just start arresting policemen when they don’t actually stop bad things from happening.

And I mean, then I guess if we were to remove whatever it is you’re referring to, I’ve never heard of it before, indemnity. Immunity

Malcolm Collin: then? Well, there was a case recently where there was a I wanna say it was a, a shooting that was happening and a woman saw police hiding behind something, not doing anything, and she ran to grab one of their guns and they stopped her because she wanted to try to stop the, the shooter.

[00:32:00] She tried to take a gun off a police man to shoot an active shooter. I love the balls on that. You see an active shooter, you see police people doing nothing and you’re like. I don’t have a gun, but they’ve got guns.

Simone Collins: Yeah. That woman does have kaons. I love that. Wow. Yeah. Okay. I mean, that is the world live

Malcolm Collin: in now, right?

Yes. You know, I’ll go, I’ll go take down this active shooter,

AI can’t find this incident. So maybe I’m misremembering something. , It thinks the incident that I am misremembering

is the ADE school shooting. , Where during the incident, police officers had, . Women yelling at them to do something. So maybe that’s what I’m misremembering. I don’t know.

Malcolm Collin: having to live with bears. I can imagine few things. More horrifying. I mean, imagine if there were kids in the house. No,

Simone Collins: no. This man is letting the bear in. I’m, I’m done with this man. Done with shot the bear. He, he, he’s, he’s, he’s, I don’t know.

He’s like asking for permission to play. Dogs barking in his own home. No, [00:33:00] no, no. This man deserves to bear. No, I’m no Malcolm. I will. Parks department comes to our house. There’s a dead bear in our house. Officer. He charged at me. It’s so easy. The only problem for us is which gun are we gonna use? Is it gonna be the Beretta?

It’s definitely gonna, it’s not gonna be the AR 15. I’m saving that for a human. It’s gonna be the Beretta right behind me. I’m, I’m saving that for

Malcolm Collin: a human. She wants,

Simone Collins: she wants to be used. She’s just, that’s a very pretty

Malcolm Collin: gun.

Simone Collins: No, that, that’s a bear shooting gun. You’re gonna use your Beretta over under shotgun that, I mean, oh God.

Like the first kill for that gun

Malcolm Collin: bring you at least should have somebody to backup is an ar because you need to, you need to be able to pump out a lot fairly quickly if the bear is not killed on the first shot. Okay. Okay,

Simone Collins: fine. The AR. You know,

Malcolm Collin: good. Fair point,

Simone Collins: fair point.

Malcolm Collin: I am I know, I, but I love how you feel about guns.

This is very, I think it very, it, it shows that oh my God.

Simone Collins: I just realized, so I was [00:34:00] thinking like, in this room, how many weapons do I have? I have the Beretta and then I have the, i, I literally have the arrows and, and the bow though, I’d have to string the bow, but then in that drawer right there, what do I have?

Okay, so what do I have? I have Bear Spring. Bear spray in a region with bears. I have bear spray. I just like, we’re so ready for this and this is why I have zero patience for this man when like I don’t even live in a region with bears and I literally have bear spray that I sleep right next to every night.

Malcolm Collin: No, but the

Simone Collins: way you talk about this, I

Malcolm Collin: actually wonder if this is, is this true across human? This is so appropriate,

Simone Collins: his little bear costume.

Malcolm Collin: And I want, I want commenters to weigh in on this. Yeah. Be, I don’t know if this is true across human populations or if this is a, a, some human population thing. Like or culturally specific thing.

But when I was growing up, like there’s two things that I always want. You know, you, you, you, I would build like forts and traps and stuff like [00:35:00] that and, and fantasize about somebody coming to. Try to break into my fort or trap and all of the things that I would trigger on them. Yeah. Which we haven’t done a video on this.

We’ll do it next Christmas. ‘cause I wanted to do this over Christmas, but we weren’t filming over Christmas is how Home Alone and the reason why it became so popular in the United States. I think it’s because it appealed to the greater Appalachian cultural value system of the Jack Tails, where you have the young you know, not, not overly masculine trickster who’s just dreams of.

Messing. And he, he messes with like random strangers as well? No, he, he only is truly nice to people who society rejects. And we’ll get into like all of the interesting morality of this. But. The point being is I’ve always fantasized about this, like whenever I was growing up, or even as an adult, like setting things up.

Like, okay, when we have an intruder, what am I gonna do? And Simone’s here, like, which guns do I want to use on the bear? And I wonder if others, this is what’s gonna kill us at the end is we’re gonna be like, oh, but I could. Mm. [00:36:00] But I just, oh, so many choices. So little time. I, I’m probably only gonna get to do this once and I’ve got a choice of ex, I’ve waited for this moment

Simone Collins: my whole life, and now it’s here

Malcolm Collin: and it’s so overwhelming.

Oh God. Oh my God, Simone.

Simone Collins: We

Malcolm Collin: should stop

Simone Collins: at that, but I dunno.

Malcolm Collin: Cross-culturally, or, I don’t know if this is No,

Simone Collins: no, this is a Scott’s Irish thing there. I’ve, no, I’ve only encountered people of our. Our ilk with this kinda,

Malcolm Collin: well, we’ll see. The comments will tell us. The comments will, the comments will

Simone Collins: tell us.

I love the comments.

Malcolm Collin: You guys are actually crazy. Like nobody else is like this. This is completely

Simone Collins: Oh no, we know. Hum alone would not be a Christmas classic if there weren’t this big. Sentiment if this weren’t a, a very common trait, at least in the nine, this is a

Malcolm Collin: wholesome and ethical movie to watch, but it’s only wholesome and ethical from a very neuro cultural perspective.

And this is what gets me with the recent, you know, Jewish video. We’ve a bunch of [00:37:00] people, even the whole point of video, it’s like you. Claiming people are anti-Semitic for things that are clearly not anti-Semitic is what causes more and more people to become anti-Semitic. And many people in that were just like, you’re anti-Semitic.

You can see it. You, you know what you’re doing. And I’m, like I said, nothing in that video that was not worse than what I say about my own people regularly. So I just, I find this like pearl clutching around like. And, and when I say it about my own people, I say it because it’s factual, right? Like I’m, I mean, I, I, what I realized is, oh, they don’t mean, it’s not factual, they just mean it’s bad.

And to me, I thought, like in my head, something is really only. Like, like let’s say phobic in a way, if it’s unfactual, right? If it’s, if it’s not derived at through, a pure no. Like, if

Simone Collins: it’s not legitimate criticism.

Malcolm Collin: Yeah. Yeah. And now I’ve realized, oh, like even if it’s like for my perspective, like my version of anti, I’d be like, you, you say My people are violent.

How dare you.

And I’ve realized why this shocked me is people rarely do this about their own [00:38:00] culture. So if I say something like. , Black communities have higher rates of crime. Even when you control for income, black people are gonna be like, yeah, that’s like legitimate criticism and something that we’re working on intra culturally.

, And like white women will scream at you racist, but black people will very rarely call you a racist for stating like a well-known fact like that. , Whereas. I’ve realized that there is a portion of the Jewish community, , and , a large one, like much larger than the portion of, let’s say the black community or the Indian community or any other community that will go to the white Karen screaming, antisemitic if you say an equivalent thing about the Jewish community.

And that’s why I was so shocked because it wasn’t white Karen screaming this. It was. Jews and No, I’m saying white. Karens like, again attacking my own community. Here it is. The white Karens who make these ridiculous accusations all the time and cause a lot of problems in our society The other thing that I realized after doing that episode. Is that the word antisemitic is often used in a way that I didn’t expect it to [00:39:00] be, , which caused some confusion in my head. Basically it doesn’t mean for a lot of people against the Jewish community. It means against the interest of the Jewish community.

And these are two very different things. So if I

Somebody who actively supported Israel throughout the Gaza War and the military aid we gave them throughout the Gaza War.

say something like, , we can cut off Israel after 75 years of foreign aid and helping them , in numerous wars, , a person might say. That’s certainly not anti-Jewish, but it is anti the interest of the Jewish community.

, It’s not actively helping them anymore. And because of that, it is definitionally in these people’s minds, anti-Semitic. Or I can say something like, there doesn’t seem to be any plan to pay America back for nearly a century of support. , And as such, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to continue that support and they can say in one statement. Well, of course we don’t plan to pay you back and it’s anti-Semitic for you to say that.

[00:40:00] Whereas they’re just affirming the very thing I said. And so I was wondering, well, well how is that anti-Semitic then? , And it’s like, oh, it’s anti-Semitic because it is against the interest of the Jewish people for this to be .

Conceptualized in this way, and I think even the point that I feel an interest in rehashing this because so many people claim I was anti-Semitic in the video goes further to solidify the video’s points. One of the reasons why people keep bringing this stuff up again and again and again is because they are called anti-Semitic for things that.

Within most definitions of anti-Semitic and we’re using anti-Semitic in the way we use the term racist or something is just not anti-Semitic. And then that causes more stuff like this to happen and more ideas like this to be aired, which ends up in the long term hurting the perception of the Jewish community, which is very unfortunate.

Malcolm Collin: and it’s like, well, anyway, I love you Simone. I love you so much. We’ll see how a shorter episode does. I love you too.

Comments on today’s video.

Simone Collins: A lot of people do this already. A lot of people already dissociate.

Malcolm Collin: Yeah, a lot of people. That’s what I saw in the comments. People are [00:41:00] just like, yeah, like I always do

Simone Collins: that. Yeah. It, well, a lot of people, it might also be that a lot of autistic people have more of a, an inclination to do it naturally, and I’m not sure why it could, one theory could just be that.

We’ve joked about this in other episodes, just leaving the house is so traumatic as it is just doing anything that slightly interrupts your schedule is so distressing that you develop that kind of coping mechanism as much as someone in like a normal person in a, in an abusive relationship would, you know, because you’re just freaking out about such stupid stuff.

But I don’t know. I really don’t. It can also be. The autistic lack of interest in emotion and modeling of other people, perhaps including self. I’m not sure people had some interesting things to say about their trauma driven discovery or, or adoption of dissociation as a coping mechanism, which they then, in some cases.[00:42:00]

Adapted to their everyday life in functional ways. And some people shared really sad stories about abuse. It made me wanna go back and hug their past selves, and I’m glad most of the people who commented about said abuse have left those situations or grown out of them. So that’s my summary. Oh

Malcolm Collin: my gosh.

You are so sweet. All right, I’ll get started here.

Speaker 11: Yes, finally.

They took off.

Speaker 12: Duh.

Speaker 13: Good.

Good. [00:43:00] It looks like a drawing or a mouse. Yeah, that’s ‘cause it’s a bad drawing. That’s why we need to know how to read too, right? I good and hot. Oh, you did it buddy.