Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm Collins

In this episode, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into the controversy surrounding the suspension of Jimmy Kimmel’s show, exploring the intersection of free speech, media ethics, and the shifting landscape of late-night television. They analyze the facts behind Kimmel’s suspension, compare it to other high-profile media firings, and discuss the broader implications for truth, comedy, and political discourse in America. The conversation also touches on the evolution of late-night humor, the rise of alternative media, and the challenges of navigating cancel culture. Plus, enjoy candid moments, personal stories, and predictions about the future of media, AI, and global politics.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] was Kimmel himself hinting in a 2024 LA Times interview. I think this is my final contract.

That seems like enough Jimmy Kimmel was saying. His contract wasn't gonna be renewed. when Alex Jones gets fired for Sandy Hook very few mainstream conservative commentators we're like, oh, they're silencing free speech the Tonight Show was Conan O'Brien was canceled at around 1.4. So at higher ratings than his show was canceled.

The American Hall Show was canceled at 1.6. Again, much higher than his show when it was canceled,

Simone Collins: your depiction of this as the network taking an opportunity to. Less expensively end a contract that was going to end inevitably.

Makes a lot of sense.

Malcolm Collins: why does the left even think they have a right to be mad about this?

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. A lot of people have been talking about free speech in regards to [00:01:00] Jimmy Kimmel having his show canceled after.

I will note it wasn't that he disparaged somebody, he just lied. Like what he said wasn't even like a normal lie. It was like the antithesis of what is true. I'll play the clip right here for people who aren't familiar with it. Before we go further

Speaker: The MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it.

Malcolm Collins: the gist is, is he insinuated that the shooter who killed, charlie Kirk was a Republican, was like a MAGA guy. Like Yeah.

Simone Collins: He used the term MAGA or

Malcolm Collins: Right. Republican. And that, that's funny because, you know, MAGA is killing MAGA and they don't realize it or won't talk about it. Well, that

Simone Collins: MAGA is trying to pin it on their political opposition and he's basically saying they're shooting their own.

Isn't that? Yeah. Which is,

Malcolm Collins: I mean, it's, [00:02:00] it's, it's not like a, like he may not have been aware of the evidence or something like this. This is one of the things that is just patently not true. And part of this whole conversation is before I get into he wasn't canceled for the reasons that people are saying, first of all, and I'm gonna go into the data on this, that'll be the first thing we go into.

But the, the other thing that's really important to note here is, and, and go into is why does the left even think they have a right to be mad about this? Like his role. Was as a newscaster comedian which is basically our role as well, except he's working for a major station, like a private company, right.

He says something in his role as a newscaster comedian, which was the antithesis of true, which was literally made to get people to believe the opposite of what was true on a very sensitive topic, which is obviously like going viral and doing the rounds. And [00:03:00] so the company that hired him, fired him.

Simone Collins: Well, the show suspended, right?

I Is he fired? I don't think he's fired. It

Malcolm Collins: doesn't, it doesn't matter. The point being is that you should be fired if you are a newscaster for saying something about like a, a mainstream important topic that's just factually untrue. And

Simone Collins: to be fair, there is a. There are many examples of journalists, reporters, et cetera, who have been suspended or fired for reporting inaccuracies.

This is Sure.

Malcolm Collins: A, a great example, when Alex Jones gets fired for saying Sandy Hook is fake very few mainstream conservative commentators we're like, oh, they're silencing free speech or anything like that.

You know, very few. We, we certainly have never argued that Alex Jones shouldn't have faced a lawsuit for that or faced being pulled from air for that. That was something that was factually untrue and very easy to check that it was [00:04:00] factually untrue. Yeah. In fact. In many ways, I think what Alex Jones did was less bad than what, what Jimmy Kimmel did.

Why? 'cause at least Alex Jones engaged with the argument and tried to explain why he believed it was fake, whereas Jimmy Kimmel just stated something that was patently false about something that assert as

Speaker 4: sculpted.

Malcolm Collins: No. I'll note here. The way that what Alex Jones did was worse than what Jimmy Kimmel did is he turned the regular civilians who had lost their loved ones into victims.

Whereas Jimmy Kimmel did not do that. Yeah. But I mean, I'm talking about just in terms of somebody whose job is telling news, said something and that they knew was wrong. And, and if you can be like, oh, Alex Jones didn't know this. We know from the court documents that Alex Jones didn't believe this.

Like there's been internal leaks. And there are also

Simone Collins: just general other even political kind of related falsehoods that people have been. We'll say like suspended or censored in some way. Like some Fox News presenters promoted false claims about the 2020 US [00:05:00] election and Dominion voting systems. And they, that, that led to lawsuits and, and other things.

And were they fired? Some, some of them were suspended, some were not. But that's another example of them. A a bunch of people have been pulled for just other nonpolitical inaccuracies. Like Brian Williams, he was a really big person for NBC Nightly News in 2015 was suspended, and later his anchor was just totally removed after he exaggerated stories about being under fire during the Iraq war.

So that was just telling a lie about himself. So there, there are lots of people who have been suspended for things people have been suspended for false Michael Flynn reports false Kobe Bryant reporting.

You know, when he, he, when he was killed Matt Guttman of a BC news was suspended for saying that all of the kids died in the plane crash when it was just his daughter. So even just like little, little things. And, and some,

Malcolm Collins: it's, the point is, is it is normal to fire a newscaster [00:06:00] for lying, for plagiarism,

Simone Collins: for ethics issues, for lying, for inaccurate reporting, like all of these things.

Malcolm Collins: Why is it, I think the bigger story here is why is it that progressives think that this is a bad thing? Like, oh, and

Simone Collins: don't forget all the COVID stuff. Sorry, I just wanted to point that out. When, when people were seen as, as, as reporting misleadingly on COVID stuff, they got fired and suspended all the time.

Malcolm Collins: But the, the question here I'm saying is why do they think that they can say, we are canceling free speech when some, a newscaster is being fired for lying. Like, why do they think that this is something that somebody shouldn't be fired for? Why do they think that they have a position to throw a stink here?

And I think that this actually tells us more about the current progressive mindset and philosophy than the, the anything else around this. But before I go further, I wanna go into why he was actually fired because this is suspended. People on the right have talked about this, but they really haven't gone into the data.

And I think when you go into the data, you're just like, this is a completely silly situation to be up in [00:07:00] arms about. Okay. So in August 26th, 2025, Yahoo Entertainment. So this is before he said this, this is before the Trump stuff AR article reported insider speculation tied to shifting late night landscape.

Post Stephen Colbert's cancellation announcement, A key quote, quote, Jimmy is determined to quit late night before he's axed, quote, confides insider. The context highlights that he was planning to be fired that year. Jimmy Kimmel thought before this that he was going to be fired this year. What happened?

Let's keep going. A July 23rd, 2025 people magazine's piece discussed Trump's claims that Kimmel and Jimmy Fallon would soon be ousted analyzing their contracts. It noted Kimmel's deal expires at the end of 2025 to 2026. Season was Kimmel himself hinting in a 2024 LA Times interview. I think this is my final contract.

That seems like enough Jimmy [00:08:00] Kimmel was saying. His contract wasn't gonna be renewed. Now, what's important to note about these contracts, and we'll get into this a little bit more later, is most of them have a clause that if the person embarrasses the company publicly, they can cancel the contract without having to pay a firing fee.

But if they don't, then they have to pay out a bunch of money.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay. There's a very clear economic reason for why things happened the way they happened.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Let's keep going here. Oh, cha-ching. July 24th, 2025 coming soon.net guide explored why fans and sources believed the show was going to be canceled.

So there's, there's articles out there analyzing why everyone thought he was gonna be canceled and they say, quote, the word is, and it's a strong word at that Jimmy Kimmel is next to go at late night sweepstakes in quote. And this was a Trump quote by the way that they were quoting. So he, he knew what was up.

But now I wanna talk ratings because we're gonna do a quick comparison of this show's ratings, and I'll put on screen here, the falling ratings of not just [00:09:00] this show, but across late night tv. So you can give an idea of just how dramatic the fall has been, because I think a lot of people don't realize how dramatic the fall has been.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. But,

Malcolm Collins: Total viewers, P two plus. The show's highest seasonal average with around 2.4 million, and that was back in 2015, was peaks of 2.2 million with some episodes growing over 3 million, but averages Hubbard around 2.1 to 2.4. In the adults 18 to 49 demo, which is the one that advertisers care about.

It was nearly a million viewers back in 2015. Now if you go more recently by August 20 for 25, the monthly average had fallen to 1.104.

Speaker 4: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So down almost 50%. And. If you look at the key demo they were down, I, I think it was around 78 to 75% the 18 to 49 demo. So that's where the advertisers are.

And this makes sense because

Simone Collins: I mean, why watch late night when you can watch Asman Gold or someone who's more politically interesting to you, [00:10:00] who's better takes honestly and is

Malcolm Collins: more prolific, started to suck. And I wanna talk about, as a former fan of late night, right? Yeah. But before I get into like being a former fan of late night, I just think it's useful.

Before we go into this, this tangent to go over when other shows were canceled.

Speaker 4: Okay,

Malcolm Collins: so remember he had fallen 74% in the key demographic, 43% in the general demographic, and was getting around 1 million views per show. Okay? So the Tonight Show was Conan O'Brien was canceled at around 1.4. So at higher ratings than his show was canceled.

Wow. It had fallen by about 63%. The American Hall Show was canceled at 1.6. Again, much higher than his show when it was canceled, fallen 47%. So around the percent his show had fallen. The Jay Leno show was canceled at 1.4, again, higher than his show but it had fallen 73%. Later with Bob Castus and Greg Kinner at around one.

But, and it had only fallen 33%, so this is [00:11:00] the only one in this list so far that was below his, when it was canceled. So I just let's go to Jimmy. Oh, Jimmy Kimmel did horribly when he was canceled. He had fallen to 0.16 and had fallen 76%. so many shows in that, in that table had fallen to lower than his show.

When he was canceled, he was below the range that you're normally at when you're canceled.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It's almost as though they were holding on because they realized that this is no longer a viable format anyway, and they maybe just wanted the legacy. To last a little longer, but this is clearly, this was not long for the world, this show.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. By the way, if you wanna talk about contracts, suspending the show indefinitely could invoke clauses related to public interest or reputational harm, potentially allowing a BZ to avoid breach contract penalties.

Simone Collins: Hmm. Nice.

Malcolm Collins: Kimmel is reportedly effing livid but no lawsuits are happening.

But why, why did he think he could just lie and, and nobody would care? 'cause

Simone Collins: that's [00:12:00] been the way in late night media for a long time. I mean, there's been skewed representations of reality through late night media frequently. I remember even in like the old I think John Stewart and Colbert report shows they would misrepresent some interviews, kind of like cut them in weird ways.

Oh yeah, they would, would way, yeah. Yeah. I guess he thought it was like

Malcolm Collins: industry practice and he is getting lazy now, so he is not trying to cut up funny interviews. It's just, I mean, I

Simone Collins: think it's, it's one of those things where people break the rules and you're only gonna get prosecuted for it when someone has to, who's gonna benefit from prosecuting for it.

Like when the news networks made a lot of money from those misrepresentations and faced no liability, keep it, 'cause it's good for them. In this case, the Trump administration is clearly saying that they're gonna crack down on behavior like this. I, I wanna go, it doesn't seem to be doing in them any favors.

So I wanna

Malcolm Collins: go over the cracking down on behavior that the Trump administration has talked about and everything like [00:13:00] that. Okay. 'cause it, it's not often what people think. It's, it's more just these people are going to be fired. While there's been some stuff of like FCC. Right.

Simone Collins: But yeah, there still have been very prominent people in the Trump administration saying really clearly threatening.

This kind of

Malcolm Collins: behavior. Right. We'll get to, I'm gonna get to all of these quotes in a second. Okay. But I wanna get to the side that you were talking about earlier. Okay. Which is, why would you watch this when you have asthma, gold or us as an alternative? And the answer is genuinely why? Like why, like the, the 18, the reason they've lost 18 to 24 demographic.

You know, Asma Gold Points out, he beats most major news stations in that demographic. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, really sad. His dad died. Dad died. That happened recently. Yeah. And he took off the show, you know, he used to do every day, very diligent about never missing anything

Simone Collins: multiple times, every day. What a prolific man, what a workforce.

Malcolm Collins: And he decided to take off indefinitely, you know, citing his dad's health. And I think a lot of people were like, you know, this is a big mistake, you know, how long are you gonna do this? And he turned out to have done the right [00:14:00] thing. You know, his dad did end up dying not long after that. And it's, it's a regret he's not gonna have.

And his dad also would call into the show regularly and just ramble and he'd let him talk. So it appeared they had a positive relationship. But anyway I I, I, I think if, if you're an 18 to 24, why are you watching these guys? The shows often don't really respect your time very much, which is something we try to do as a show is just, you know, not leave a lot of dead space, try to go from a piece of information.

You may not be getting somewhere else to a piece of information. You may not be getting somewhere else where they're not doing that. If you look at the Jimmy Kimmel Show, it is about confirming the things you already believe as a joke which isn't funny, right? I used to be obsessed with late night tv specifically the Daily Show and the Colbert Report.

I was so into the Colbert Report that because I was living in Scotland at the time when I did my undergrad I couldn't watch it on tv. I couldn't stream it. So I bought a subscription, a daily subscription to it on ut on apple, apple Music. Wow. So I [00:15:00] paid like, I don't know, like, I wanna say like a dollar 50 an episode every single day.

Simone Collins: I bought the book. I can't remember what it was called. There's a Colbert book.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah, we got that too. Yeah. In history. So like we, we were, I am like a super fan of this show. Yeah, no, we loved

Simone Collins: it.

Malcolm Collins: And he a hundred percent deserved to be canceled. His show became absolute dog trash. The Col Colbert report is still

Speaker 5: on.

Simone Collins: The

Malcolm Collins: Colbert report was canceled. We're gonna talk about the cancellation of that. Did you not know that?

Simone Collins: I just watched a segment where he talked about the Kimmel suspension.

Malcolm Collins: He took over the Tonight Show and then was canceled. Hold on.

Simone Collins: I just watched a segment and he joked about like, people thinking he was canceled and that it's not true.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, it's going to be canceled May, 2026.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It's not being renewed.

Malcolm Collins: It's not being renewed, but it hasn't been canceled yet. Yeah, it absolutely, he's just not good anymore. I mean, when you watched it, did he, was he like, how could this [00:16:00] happen?

Simone Collins: Basically he was just like, that's Jimmy Kimmel being Jimmy Kimmel.

And he's not wrong because again, this format has been rife with inaccuracies for a very long time.

Malcolm Collins: But I think that this is diff because it wasn't even a real joke. Okay. And it wasn't like an inaccuracy, like he cut up a piece using real people's words to say something else. It was just saying something that is the opposite of what's true around a political assassination.

Simone Collins: Well, and what's troubling too is people with greater frequency than I could have ever expected or banding around the term civil war. This is not in innocuous incitement or representation. This is contributing to a level of internal unrest. That is dangerous. And there are people who watch this show who love the idea of there being a Civil War.

Civil wars are not fun for anyone involved.

Malcolm Collins: But I think that there's a second thing here [00:17:00] that you're missing which is why these shows have dropped off. I don't just think it's the audience and the alternatives. I if you, if you talk about, you know, circa my College Days Daily Show or Colbert Reports mm-hmm.

I would've rather watched those than ASME Gold. If ASME Gold was an alternative back then but today I would rather watch ASME Gold and the question is, is why. Hmm. And the answer is because they used to be funny. And so the question is, is why aren't they funny anymore? Right? Like, this is actually an interesting point.

Why did, why Because comedians used to be overwhelmingly leftists, like this was a thing. And if you go into mainstream comedy, comedians are still overwhelmingly leftists, just main, although the Colbert report

Simone Collins: originally, the Colbert report was funny because it was a leftist pretending to be a rightist.

But honestly, very similar with the, the character Ron Swanson from the show Parks and Rec. There's something about like even leftist, parities of Rightists that are absolutely [00:18:00] delightful.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That back then, the thing is, is you could portray, whether it's Ron Swanson or the Colbert Report, a rightist is having some positive qualities in the way that you portrayed them, right?

Mm-hmm. This, this was key to the Colbert character. But you can't do that anymore. And I also think when you talk about humor,

Simone Collins: it's no, there's no longer any capacity to even try to model people on the right and then. Actually rightist in a way that's entertaining. It's just, it's just hatred and vitriol.

It's just resentment it, it's just derangement. And that's not fun anymore. And I think that's something that you and I have been talking about a lot internally is we love working with people who are politically different from us, or ideologically different from us, who make fun of us in good spirit per mostly because they can model us and they understand our points.

They just have different, you know, conclusions. What, what is different now is a complete loss of that [00:19:00] capacity to model the other side, which then leads to an inability to make a depiction of it funny or even make criticisms of it funny.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. I think that that's part of it. But I also think if you watch one of their shows now, like even the joke that Jimmy Kimmel did with this, he's just like our side good, their side bad audience laugh.

That is the core joke structure, right? Whereas if you look at older jokes on the shows, they follow if people aren't familiar with my theory of humor, I'm not gonna explain the whole thing, but it's basically when you hear an idea or you see something that makes sense in context but is otherwise surprising and we argue that it likely evolved as a signal that babies gave to their parents to get them to repeat a task until they could.

Understand it. It was like, oh, I almost understand that. Like, object permanence. Do it again. And so they create this positive stimuli and the parents react and we continue laughing as adults now, even though we're not really supposed to. And this is why you know, if you wanna see like an ape, really laugh, [00:20:00] watch videos of apes watching magic tricks they will just absolutely crack up.

They tell me again. Cute. Like, I wanna understand that. Okay. Like, why isn't the ball in the cup anymore? Like, I saw you put it in the cup. Oh. And if you look at the Colbert character, he allowed for that a lot. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Like, because it's like, oh, it's so surprising that someone would say that, but oh yes, he's a right wing archetype character.

So it's surprising, but it makes sense within the context of his character. Hmm. It's a very easy format for doing lots of jokes. Hmm. Especially if you play like an over the top caricature of that. Right. Which I don't know. I, I try to take some of my personality from that. We'll see, you know, because everybody takes their, their personality from, from different caricatures.

But or, or different things they see within media if they're doing it

Simone Collins: right.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But the point I, I'm the modern day Colbert, right? I understand what the other side is thinking. I just embody the character for real, for real. Yeah. But no, you,

Simone Collins: you, Malcolm, you do not embody the left.

Malcolm Collins: I embody the [00:21:00] right wing character.

Oh, that Colbert was the right wing character. I am the Steve, the ultra patriotic, the

Simone Collins: Oh, you are? Yeah. You are ultra patriotic. There's that, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Worried about the French and bears. But the point I'm making here, it was a very good format. And in the modern leftist format they, because they believe it's funny to just be like your side bad, our side good.

It doesn't appeal to most general audiences, but in addition to that the left will get you for like stepping out of line with anything that's overly subversive. And if you look at the old you know, like SNL or something, you'd have like the ambiguously gay duo and stuff like that. Yeah. Or Stephen Colbert.

Like even remember Stephen Colbert? People may not know this, but the term cancel, cancel culture, everything like that, you know, saying I am canceled. Do you remember when it was invented? Simone? It

Simone Collins: came from the, the. GBTQ community?

Malcolm Collins: No, it came from the Cancel Colbert movement.

Simone Collins: Mm. They [00:22:00] took

Malcolm Collins: it from the L-G-B-T-Q movement.

But what made it popular Lexicon. Okay. What

Simone Collins: popular? Okay, so he that brought it to the mainstream. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: That's the mainstream that everybody knows about it from is Cancel Colbert. And what did Ca Colbert do that got him? They tried to cancel him over. It was his Ching Chong bong character where he would do a silly accent and do his eyes like this.

Oh no.

Speaker 3: You so pretty American girl. You come here, you kiss my teammate all sweet. I no need no sugar when you around. Come on rickshaw. I give you a ride to Bangkok.

Malcolm Collins: And some Asian girl who I think, oh my God, I remember this activist.

Simone Collins: Yes. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Total Grifter decided she tried to get him canceled over this, like this was causing her like serious emotional distress. It was like the biggest BS ever. And nothing ended up happening, but that shows that Colbert actually used to be like subversive, right?

So much so that backlash to Colbert invented canceled culture.

Okay, [00:23:00] so the invention of the term cancel appears to be a case of the LGBT slash black community attempting to carry credit for inventing a term that they didn't invent. , While the term canceled what used to reject people at like balls and stuff at dances, , it most certainly entered popular culture as like a to be canceled by the mob because of Colbert.

Because the term in the context of Cancel, Colbert meant to cancel the show, which is what it means when you shut down a show. It very clearly came specifically from the Shut Down the Colbert Show, or Cancel the Colbert Show.

Simone Collins: Can you imagine? Yeah. Can you imagine any late night show doing something like that now? Yeah. Gotta

Malcolm Collins: do the

Simone Collins: Yeah. It got boring. They stopped. They stopped doing anything that was risque or interesting. And it is still good comedy today. Popular comedy today is risque.

And that's why so many comedians now require attendees to put their phones in in Faraday bags. Oh really? Yeah. [00:24:00] I mean, one, they don't want everything like immediately on YouTube 'cause they're trying out new routines before they wanna take them like onto a Netflix special. But two, yeah, there's just a lot of concern about what they're saying, being risque, leading to them not being able to continue their tour because someone makes a huge stink about it online.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I'll tell you one of my jokes I told that absolutely killed at the Libertarian convention this is before I was public, was being skeptical so I was like, nobody, nobody's recording. Right? But now we're more publicly skeptical. I'll, I'll take out the, the, the hint before this so that, that people get the joke, but I go, you know, when I was a kid, and this is, this is actually true, Simone, I was so into you know, it, it subversive culture.

I, you know, would dress in like punk clothes and goth clothes and had my own little scene type outfit. And everything I did was like, so like offensive to like pearl clutching adults and everything like that. And they'd always tell me, [00:25:00] they're like, well,

Speaker 2: hmm,

Malcolm Collins: I know you think that you are like crazy and out there and subversive now, but one day you're gonna be old and one day the kids will do things that will shock and offend you.

And I told them, I, that is just not true. I, I, I am always gonna be with it. Little did I know that cutting your dick off was gonna become a trend.

Nick, it's true though. If you had told the younger me, I would've been. And that's what makes it 'cause it's subversive, right? It's, it's funny, it's subversive. But it's obviously true. It's surprising. You imagine

Simone Collins: because who would do that? But it makes sense because, oh wait, a lot of people are doing that in

Malcolm Collins: the nineties, in the, the early thousands.

Right? Where, where I was like the early thousands. You go to them and you're like, you know, you're gonna, one day the kids are gonna shock you. And you're like, no. All of them we're like, [00:26:00] no. And then you tell that version. What if I told you cutting off your dick's gonna become a trend? They'd be like, wait, what?

Yeah.

Simone Collins: That gets you,

Malcolm Collins: that's an actual trend. This is like. Cool. And they're like, yeah, that there's groups that think it's pretty cool and you're like, whoa. Oh my god. People, people will brag about this. Oh yeah. They make you bring it up constantly in conversation. Really anyway. That's, that's a a Malcolm joke.

We'll see if the audience thought that was funny. No. Gosh. I'll, I'll keep, I'll keep going here. Your dad.

Simone Collins: It's a dad joke. Maybe it's not. I have no idea. I have no idea.

Malcolm Collins: But I'll go into the, what the Trump administration has said. 'cause people are like, yeah, but now the Trump administration is going after media freedom.

Okay, now I point out here how many YouTubers and right wing media lost their jobs and lost their source of income for telling the truth about COVID truths that [00:27:00] we now recognize. And, and keep in mind the whiplash of one day. It's don't wear a mask. Masks actually do nothing. If you say that you, you wanna wear a mask, we will de platform you.

And then like within a week it became, oh, actually masks are completely required and we will de platform you if you say don't wear a mask. And by the way, we were never arguing the exact opposite two weeks ago. That, for me, was the craziest part of COVID when that happened. Because I would like talk to people and it felt so 1984, where it was like the, the, the new thing had dropped and we were supposed to pretend that the old thing had never been an old thing and we weren't just canceling people.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: we never said that. What do you mean? No, you have to wear a mask. Now I have always said

Malcolm Collins: this. I was like, what? Have you taken down the old episodes of your, I go, I look. I'm like, no, you. Oh, truth just doesn't matter to you people. That was when I was like, this is crazy. I'm in the Twilight Zone [00:28:00] here.

Speaker 6: In the name of Vectron, I bring you greeting Chancellor Vectron. Be with you, ambassador. And may the power of Vectron bring prosperity to your house

by Vectra's build.

Speaker 7: Excellent.

Speaker 8: , Chancellor? Yes. , Who's ectron? What? This ectron, we all keep mentioning what? Don't you know by ra? No. You see, about three weeks ago I was ill. When I came back on the Friday morning, it was all veteran ra veron and no one's really explained just three weeks ago, but, but Veron is eternal.

Honestly, Steve, no one, I mean, none of us have ever said the word vectron in our lives until. I took that day off maybe.

Malcolm Collins: But the point here being is it, it, the Trump administration, if they do do a crackdown on this, would be doing much less than what leftists did. And you can be like, well, leftists weren't getting [00:29:00] mainstream TV watchers banned. And I was like, banning mainstream TV matters much less than putting restrictions on something like YouTube.

Yeah. If you're talking about where key demographics are actually getting their information from.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway, to continue here. Trump tra praised ABC's indefinite suspension of Jimmy Kimmel alive, following controversial remarks, posting on true social congratulations to a, B, C for finally having the courage to do what had to be done.

He also called Kimmel someone who made a total fool of himself, fool in all caps. Okay. I don't see why that's controversial. He then suggested, and here's where it gets controversial, broadcasters airing critical content should face consequences. Dating to reporters, quote, I would think maybe their license should be taken away in quote, referring to networks that quote unquote hit Trump.

And another comment said of TV networks, quote, I mean, they're getting a license. I would think that their license could be taken away. It would be up to Brendan Carr. End quote. So I love that. I'm sure [00:30:00] he did not go over this with Brendan Carr. He's just like, I'll just say it to the news stations and.

He'll see it on TV and then do it if he feels like it.

Simone Collins: That is his style. Yes. That

Malcolm Collins: is his style. I effing love that about his style. I love that. Like our ideas have been taken to Trump by reporters and he goes, that doesn't sound like a bad idea. Like, I don't know, I'm not like at the White House putting something up through the ranks.

And then they'll like ask the press secretary and she goes, yeah, that seems reasonable. If Trump said it's reasonable, you know, this, this is how you, this is how you're part of this larger media landscape. Right. But the, the, the larger point here is, is it wrong to take away station's license if they are doing the type of thing that Jimmy Kimmel was doing, which is just complete fabrications that he was aware of a fabrication, keep in mind that the leftists did the same thing to all of Facebook over something that they knew was true.

The Hunter Biden laptop story, and this has essentially mm-hmm. During an election cycle. Yeah. [00:31:00] I, I, I love it when people are like, well, if Trump does this and the leftists will do it, it's like, bro, the leftists are already doing something 10 times worse. They are, they are forcing falsehoods using their power over media and now they are calling foul when Trump tries to force truth over media.

And the larger thing to me about all of this that I want to go over and or deeper into here is that they feel they have the right to get mad about somebody being fired for knowingly stating the opposite of the truth for political motivations on air.

Speaker 4: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: From a private job when he had lower ratings than most people have when they get fired.

And sort of, it seems to be. That they believe that there should be almost a protection for people who are lying about Trump within their jobs in the same way. And we've seen this in other areas, so people can be like, no, that sounds [00:32:00] bizarre. Where, you know, like as an employer, if you've got a fire like one of five people on a team and one of those people is trans, you can't fire the trans person first.

Yes. You'll be sued or attacked or something like that. Right? And I think that it's sort of the same phenomenon here, right? Where it's like he was or believed, and it seemed that many mainstream leftists believed that through easily false, like provably, falsifiable attacks. On right wing ideologies that you protect yourself and your position because then you could say if you were fired, that you were fired for this.

Which is to me really chilling because it shows how much control they had over our culture until now. And that how much of a better place we're in that they can't freak out. And I love that, you know, we're not actually getting pushback from anyone who matters, right? Like when the people go up and they, they freak out [00:33:00] about this stuff, I'd even go, this is like a great one.

Like to me, this is trans people in sports to go over that. He shouldn't have been fired with bad ratings that were continuing to fall at record rates while lying in the position of a newscaster. Yeah, I mean,

Simone Collins: your, your depiction of this as the network taking an opportunity to. Less expensively end a contract that was going to end inevitably.

Makes a lot of sense.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, a lot of sense. And while Trump is threatening stuff like licenses, what is he actually doing? Right. What he's actually doing is just funny banter to freak people out. Like, here's the great one on TR social where he says, that leaves Jimmy and Seth. Two total losers on fake news.

NBC. The ratings are horrible. Do it. NBC, exclamation mark, exclamation mark.

What are [00:34:00] you waiting for, huh? What are you waiting for? What are you waiting for? What am I waiting for? What am I waiting what are you waiting for? F**k you!

Oh my god!

Malcolm Collins: Oh my God. I mean, and he also called networks an arm of the Democratic Party, which I mean, if you're doing this, you are right. Like how is that an untruth? Right. So one I could go over how they could do this. I, I guess like the SEC could investigate complaints about content deemed not in the public interest.

A broad standard requiring stations to serve community interest and avoid certain harms like indecency Trump and car have faced critical satire as biased or harmful, potentially triggering reviews, except this wasn't a case of satire. Like the, the way that people are talking about it is like, [00:35:00] this guy made a joke critical of Trump instead of this guy lied about an assassination that just happened.

Simone Collins: Well, he lied about. The, he misrepresented the political affiliation of Charlie. He didn't didn

Malcolm Collins: misrepresent. He, he said his political affiliation was the opposite of what it was. That's not misrepresenting

Simone Collins: Well, this was at a time when we didn't have a whole lot of information. No, I think a lot of people argue that he was just engaging in speculation.

That's

Malcolm Collins: not true, Simone, that's not true. We had evidence from day one and when he gave this, this on air that this guy was a left wing individual. This, this was from early interviews. This is from early everything.

Is what had been released to say that he was left winging at this time. The New York Times before this had described Robinson as an assassin with hardening left wing Pro L-G-B-T-Q views that led him to violence. Not only did they say that he was a left wing in the New [00:36:00] York Times, but that it had led him to violence.

, If you, , look at what the Utah governor Spencer Cox had said before this at NBC's meet the press, , he said he. Quote unquote, clearly had a leftist ideology. These details were made publicly and loudly before Jimmy Kimmel did this.

Malcolm Collins: The, the only and I, I think that you. Are not aware of this as to why people argued he was right wing.

Just, just in case you're wondering they argued that he was right wing. I think it because of a clown meme that he posted at one point. And that at another point know clown memes are common on the right. Oh, it wasn't even a clown mean. I think he dressed up as a clown for Halloween.

Simone Collins: No Robinson dressed up as someone piggybacking on President Trump.

No, that was

Malcolm Collins: another Halloween.

Simone Collins: Okay. Okay. So there's some other h look up

Malcolm Collins: post, look, look up in, in, in AI right now. Why people argued that he was right wing because the, the the earlier the clown [00:37:00] meme, which they said Nick Fuentes also did, and they said that he was gay. And Nick Fuentes is also gay, and that's proof that he's rightwing.

Those were the two. I see. Okay. Proofs that they had that what, what is the AI pulling up for?

Simone Collins: I'm still typing it.

Hold on. I, I have one handwritten,

Malcolm Collins: a finger you'll hear in post Y

the day after losing a finger, like, literally, I can't even believe

Simone Collins: it. I didn't lose my finger. I cut off just the tip, some of the fingernail too. Okay.

There was confusion and speculation online about Tyler Robinson being maga, largely because he came from a conservative pro-Trump background, and in the immediate aftermath of the shooting of right wing figure Charlie Kirk. Some commentators and social media users [00:38:00] assumed a political motivation connected MAGA ideology.

Initial reasons for MAGA association included that he came from a conservative household, early online posts and rumors, including tweets by prominent commentators and even some academics suggested Robinson. Robinson was ultramega based. Purely on his background before his note, note motives for codified social media account cited old photos of Robinson wearing Trump merchandise or costumes fueling the speculation.

All of this is referring to the stuff that I just mentioned to you.

Malcolm Collins: I'll, I'll find it and add it in post. But there, there was other stuff that they saw was, was confirming, I mean, literally if it was just his family and a Trump Halloween costume, which could equally be taken that he hates Trump Uhhuh that if, if that's it.

In fairness,

Simone Collins: Malcolm, you repeat again and again how 10% of or or only 10% of, of children, of, of political families change affiliation.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, but they do, like, you shouldn't, you shouldn't be [00:39:00] assuming just because of his family that he would be pro-Trump, especially if he assassinated a major right wing figure that would take, like, you, you'd need a real good reason.

Okay, why did they think that he was right wing? You will find this hilarious 'cause I decided to look it up. , So they marked the bullet casings, the notices, bulge uwo. What's that? They said was evidence that he was right winging a furry meme reference. Uh, Bella Chow, which was apparently an anti-fascist song, lyrics, they said was proof that he was right Winging.

And hay fascist. , On the bullet casing they said was evidence that he was actually right ring. , Now if you wanna know how they twisted these, the notices, bulges, uu, uh, this is a twisted, degenerate, furry moon. UU is a cat girl emoticon. Mocking noticing GRR code for spotting Jewish influence in society is a kind of layered self-referential joke.

Nick Fuentes crowd used to hide behind bigot bigotry behind absurdity. The Bella Chow, [00:40:00] they said the Italian anti-fascist partisan song. Famous for money heist, but remixed into track on Grover, Spotify playlist. Grovers co-opted it ironically to troll fate conservatives. , And then in hay fascist read like at a direct taunt, possibly aimed at Kirk's perceived establishment ties echoing how growers baited him online and in speeches.

, And I note here that the growers, the far conservatives did not like Charlie Kirk. Like that's one thing that they write about because he. Was not far right. He was very centrist in his actual beliefs. , EE even if you, if you read some few things outta context, it might seem otherwise. , The thing that I was thinking about was a resurfaced Halloween con costume where he was pictured in a squatting LOV costume.

, This evolved from Pepe the Frog memes people argued, , in Grover iconography, and if, which is you uses. Pepe memes, which they connected with the squatting suave pose. , And in other old, older photos, , like the inflatable Trump [00:41:00] float, , which again could just as well mean he's not like , the ties were so absurdly small, , that it really is astonishing and most of them, a normal, sane, humid would be, this is obviously left wing stuff.

Malcolm Collins: Like, like suppose I was a leftist and I was trying to determine this and I saw people commenting this guy was maga right. And I wasn't just like a tar. Right? Yeah. My first thought would be. Well, that's interesting. Why would any right wing activist, especially a far right wing activist, assassinate Charlie Kirk, right?

Like I, I'd be like, I'm gonna need some explanation there as to how that happened, right? Mm-hmm. And I just, I, I just would've been like, I need to at least, and e you can see from the early stuff, if you looked into it even a little bit, you would've seen that he was left with, like, if you had just asked in ai if you had just, but what I think really happened, if you're gonna be honest, maybe he didn't lie knowingly, and maybe he's just in like a Twitter or blue sky hole, like if he's on blue sky.

Well also,

Simone Collins: keep in mind these [00:42:00] people, as much as this was presumably his like cold open monologue he has teams of writers, th this is very much a team sport. This is another reason why this format isn't viable, whose

Malcolm Collins: version of news is Blue Sky simply would not know that the guy wasn't maga.

Simone Collins: Yeah, well, no.

Yeah, I mean, I just watched, you know, again, in terms of people turning to YouTube for commentators, there is like a leftist version of basically a late night commentator who I watch who gave this whole exposition on how almost certainly he was a griper. And that is clearly not true. So I think you're absolutely right.

Malcolm Collins: And I, I, by the way, I wanna point out before we had the info, I was the one who said the trans community community's connected to all this. And everybody, when the, when the person come out, they're like, oh, Malcolm. Oh Malcolm, you fool you, you got over your skis on this one. You let your prejudice blind you.

And I'm like, give it time. Give it [00:43:00] time. A few days later it's like, uhoh, uhoh.

Speaker 2: Wow.

Malcolm Collins: Watch our episode on all the trans people who were aware that this was going to happen on that exact date before this. It's, it's pretty clear that this was like a larger community effort at, at this point, right?

And fortunately, the f fbi, I is actually investigating this, which is cool. But I, I was like, when it, it's one of those things where the left just gets it wrong. They get the election outcomes wrong, they get the motivations wrong. I'm coming in here and I'm giving you guys tru bombs. The I got two unresolved predictions on this show, so we'll see if they come true so you guys can too.

One was that Bitcoin will crash. Not this cycle. It'll have one cycle after this cycle and then the cycle after that is gonna crash. And we sold in this cycle because I said I didn't wanna sell in the cycle before it crashed because I think that trying to time the peak is always a bad idea. And trying to time the last cycle is always a bad idea.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And so that's one thing and, and I'll add why it will crash. It will have something to do with [00:44:00] the cryptography being broken or quantum computing.

Or, or something to do with AI development.

Malcolm Collins: Next big prediction from the show is and keep in mind we were very broke Bitcoin early on, and I am still conceptually pro crypto. I just don't think Bitcoin is gonna continue to work.

And sorry if, if you're like a Bitcoin person, you can watch our episode on why we think this where we go into it in a lot more detail. It has to do with the way the governance model makes it hard to update quantum resistance which a lot of people are unaware of. Like basically the core vote of the governance model goes to the miners, not the holders.

And because it goes to the miners and the minor equipment is super specialized for the type of algorithms that it is doing currently, you have no motivation. Even if quantum computing breaking Bitcoin is completely imminent to switch to a quantum safe model if it requires a different chip set. And the only way around this is develop a system, which they may do and some people point out where you can use the existing s**t.

Chip set to use quantum [00:45:00] safe stuff. But it's just hard, like, especially as quantum gets better. And I by the way, said this before all of the news came out that Quantum had undergone a lot more improvements than people realize. I don't know if you remember, but like two months after I did that episode, there was like this huge wave of FUD in relation to this.

Yeah. And the other big prediction we have is China that China is going to collapse as a world power within the next 20 years. And that is a very spicy prediction and that's our biggest argument was Elon. Because he really does not believe this. He's quite invested in China continuing to do well because he sells Tesla in China.

Did you do a Tesla doesn't even require a subsidiary in China. They just get to sell directly and almost nobody gets to do that.

Simone Collins: Wow. They're not even

Malcolm Collins: doing a JA jv. And I don't need to explain. That's

Simone Collins: impressive. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Elon's done well in buttering China. He is. Well then,

Simone Collins: even if he does believe China's boned and he probably does understanding, you know, given what he knows about No, he doesn't.

He doesn't Demographic shifts. He can't say. Anything?

Malcolm Collins: No he doesn't. So I'm sure he's argued this publicly somewhere before. [00:46:00] But he believes that if you look at things like the minerals that need to be mined, like, because of course he's focused on things like lithium for batteries and stuff like that, that there's just too much raw material well, along with the capacity to extract it competently in China for it to ever collapse in the way that I suspect it will collapse in terms of the types of raw materials that they're going to be an increasing demand for.

Whereas I think that their entire existing economy is something of a pyramid scheme, and for that reason, even if it does have a lot of wealth beneath the soil or something, it still could collapse. So it's, it's just a different, I I think that his opinion is colored by the fact that he is in the EV industry and it's where a lot of his money is.

And so he's very focused on the things that EVs need, where EVs are bought. And China has a great EV industry, by the way and, and, and where EVs are manufactured, which leads him to believe that China is more broadly competent than they actually are.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Perhaps,

Malcolm Collins: perhaps, but the, what I'm pointing out here is another problem with watching left-wing media for a lot of [00:47:00] people is they just get their predictions wrong.

And, and if you're watching the point of information that it helps you predict future states of the world, right? And if you are watching a show and it gives you an inaccurate prediction of future states, of the world then you are not getting meaningful information from that. And we've made some really big calls on our show that turned out to be right.

Most of my favorites are in the field of ai. I predicted early on when it was still considered crazy that it was going to turn out as we learned more about the internal architecture of ai, that ai had they sort of a convergent internal architecture to the human brain. Hmm. And everybody thought this was crazy to begin with.

And now like 16 to 20 studies in is just every week we're getting new evidence. Pretty consistent.

Speaker 5: Yeah. That

Malcolm Collins: crazy prediction turned out to be right. Another crazy prediction that turned out to be right was, that AI and, and keep in mind there was even a study done to find out how many people suspected this, that AI would become less competent, the less aligned you tried to force [00:48:00] it to be.

Mm-hmm. And nobody believes this and it turned out to be right. You can look at my utility convergence theory. This came out five years ago, which is different from instrumental convergence, which argues that AI eventually converges on a single or a, a few homeostatically stable architectures.

Instead of the risk of like random booming architectures, which means you need to take into account game theory when considering AI safety. And I was completely right about all of that. This all, like even Ellie Eiser has recently pulled back and been like, by the way, you guys in the natal list movement, you guys gotta get way more online because we are now beaten again by AI safety.

They had this big F of explosion in, in search trends. Well,

Simone Collins: it, it helps that. Kukowski and, and, and Nate Elliot is here, was in the New York Times

Malcolm Collins: recently. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Plan on on major news channels and stuff. They're on a full out book tour with the book. If anyone builds it, everyone dies, which is their attempt to take AI Doism [00:49:00] mainstream.

Yay.

Malcolm Collins: Yay. They, they, I've proven, gotten all my AI predictions right, and they've proven, gotten all their AI predictions wrong. So I'm

Simone Collins: listening to it now. Hopefully we, we can do a podcast on it.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, other unresolved prediction that I've made about ai is that AI will consolidate wealth not around the base models, which will become more like commodities, but around the wrapper apps.

People are

Simone Collins: already starting to talk about that. There've already been industry reports about the commodification of base models and that being a risk Oh, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I, I, I went out there with that when everyone thought that was crazy. I've talked about how the super advanced AI models that will mimic Communic intelligence will not necessarily do it through better base models, although intrinsically they're gonna have those.

But it will be through a network layer of base models at the token layer. Hmm. Which check out our Feba ai, we help you do that yourself. You can already experiment with a lot. So really excited about building that. And any, any other thoughts you have on this Simone? Like what was your I don't get how people can watch our show can be like, [00:50:00] this is a silencing of free speech.

I'm like, the left did this so much worse. It's a silencing of people who are lying. And I'm much,

Simone Collins: I care a lot more about regulation of free speech on platforms like YouTube X, Facebook, et cetera. Yeah, me too. Wherever people are, that is, that is the only thing I'm really concerned about. I don't really care what private companies do it, it doesn't matter that much.

'cause not that many people are watching it.

Malcolm Collins: Well, pri YouTube does do regulation as a private, and I would, I mean, but it's ideologically motivated and it's really bad. I think the government should trump, when he was elected in Plan 42 or whatever, he said he was gonna put out laws, the

Simone Collins: Trump 47 agenda that he was gonna put out laws that would stop any ideological based censor, no banning.

Malcolm Collins: And the companies would've to tell you why they banned you and they haven't gotten to this yet. We need to go to the White House and start banging on pans and be like, when are you gonna fill this promise? We need this problem. Yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah. We're, we're probably more concerned about [00:51:00] that than family policy because there still is censorship taking place on platforms.

Speaker 5: Hey,

Simone Collins: actually things that are truthful are being referred to as hate speech, et cetera. But I mean, I would just say though, like it's funny to me that Kimmel thinks he can get away with saying things like, Tyler, robs Robinson is maga when it's. N provably not true when Candace Owens is currently in a lawsuit for saying that Emmanuel Macron's wife is not a woman.

That, and I would point out no one on the right

Malcolm Collins: has come out and said, yeah, you, no one's like, how

Simone Collins: dare you suppress Candace Owens free speech. And then also keep in mind how, how common you hear the word allegedly on YouTube, and that is because YouTubers are aware of the fact that they can't say God, what is it?

Libelous or slanderous? Li libelous,

Malcolm Collins: Slanderous if it's verbal, libelous written. Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So that they don't slander because they understand that we are legally aren't, [00:52:00] you know, we're liable if we say stuff that isn't true, even if there's evidence pointing to it. And that's the thing. So he felt because of Tyler Robinson's family being maga.

That he had evidence, but he still said something that was untrue, which is slanderous, right? I mean, people, I'm sure correct me in the comments about this, but I mean, Linda Owen, the shooter evidence to believe that Emmanuel mcc, it's not

Malcolm Collins: relevant because slander is usually sued by the person who you slandered and the shooter is not gonna slander him.

Sue him for calling him maga. Right? The, the, the bigger thing here is that if you are, you know, working for a private company and you're on the news, you have a responsibility to at least try to dig up the facts and make accurate predictions about the world. And

I think the core reason leftists are mad is they believe that what he was doing was right. The point of the news is to describe the world that you wish existed in their mind, , instead of the world that actually [00:53:00] is from their perspective, he was doing what's right. And I think Simone, lay this out pretty well here.

Just a second.

Malcolm Collins: I don't

Simone Collins: know, I mean, at this point also, truth is a team sport.

And that show was catering to an audience that doesn't wanna hear.

Malcolm Collins: Truth is not a team sport. I regularly say truth isn't a team sport, it has become a team. Well, but welcome to our reality.

Simone Collins: Okay? You have to face the, the fact. That truth is treated as a, as a team sport Functionally.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, I think we, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I, on the right, like with Candace Owens saying what she said and she gets sued and everyone's like, whatever. Like you said, something that wasn't true, like obviously you deserve to be sued for this. But on the, the left I think they do believe truth at the team sport. And the reason why they are so freaked out by this happening is they're like, but he said it doesn't matter if what he said was factually true.

It's what everyone on Blue Sky is saying, and therefore he gets to report it because truth is whatever everyone on Blue Sky [00:54:00] says, if he's punished for this, then I could be punished for this sort of stuff.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I don't know. I, yeah,

Malcolm Collins: by the way, I, we got hit on Patreon for a video where we pointed out the ties between the trans community and the shooter. As like a, they're gonna take down our Patreon, and I'm telling Simone, I think we should just do a different payment.

Simone Collins: We, we already are on Substack, but the vast majority of our paid subscribers, and thank you to all of you on Substack and on Patreon, are on Patreon because it's a, I like the user interface more.

I get it. But again, this is why I'm, I'm much more concerned about free speech on these platforms. 'cause one, it's where the people are. Two, it's, it's where normal people speak not just privileged celebrities and writer teams. And, and that's, that's what what we're gonna see as being, it's already the primary source of news for I think the majority of, at least younger Americans.

So that's what matters to me. [00:55:00]

Malcolm Collins: Alright, love you every day.

Simone Collins: You too.

Malcolm Collins: What?

Simone Collins: I'm taking you for dinner anyway.

Malcolm Collins: What do we have to reheat that's not unfrozen? So I

Simone Collins: have I mean, I froze all the haw meatballs. However, what I have still in the fridge is the rest of your f broth. So I figured maybe toasting some of those up.

Well,

Malcolm Collins: okay. If it's not too hard to do, if we're doing something from frozen. Mm-hmm. I just love that Korean dish you make with cheese.

Simone Collins: Okay. And I, I should try to do it in that spread out pizza format you want. All right, I'll try that.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. You not, you don't even need to spread out. Just pour it on a plate, then put the mozzarella on top of it so that you get mozzarella like throughout it, you know what I mean?

Not like just at the top of it. Yeah. But you

Simone Collins: want the mozzarella melted.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. That means that I have to like, I need to put it in like a pie dish and spread it out finally, and then put cheese on it or [00:56:00] something because I have to broil it or bake it to get the cheese melted.

Malcolm Collins: I'm confused about the point that, okay, I have to put on new

Simone Collins: cheese, Malcolm,

Malcolm Collins: you hold on.

We're gonna go over this because clearly you're making this harder than it needs to be. You put it in the microwave

Simone Collins: and I thought, and then

Malcolm Collins: you put it in the air fryer. That's what you did last time, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. But in the same ramekin and the ramekins that I have are very small. That means you're getting a very small surface of cheese, which is exactly what you asked me to not replicate, right?

Malcolm Collins: So I have to put

Simone Collins: it in a different container. I'm not, I can't put it in the air fryer as like, hold on,

Malcolm Collins: lemme help you with some shape rotating here. Okay? You put it in the ram, you take it in what? It's frozen in. Okay.

Simone Collins: It's frozen in a ramekin. I thaw it out and it goes out of the Raman.

Malcolm Collins: Please listen. You put that.

In the microwave without the cheese on top? Yes. Okay. You then take it out of the microwave and you pour it onto a plate. You then put the cheese on top and you put [00:57:00] that in the microwave again and in the air fryer.

Simone Collins: No, you, you can't put a normal plate in an air fryer. You have to put an oven safe pan or dish or plate in an air fryer or oven.

Okay. You cannot just take, you want me to take the f*****g metal plates that you eat off of? How's that gonna go for your fingers? Who's gonna go to urgent care next? You don't know. I mean, as much as, yes, I am a clutz with a knife sometimes, especially when pregnant, I can't do anything right now. You are wrong, and I understand what I need to do and I will do it.

But I will do that for your dinner tonight. And I love you very much.

Malcolm Collins: I love you too, Simone.

Simone Collins: Okay. I'm ending her. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: so weak news people. My wife chopped off a big chunk of her finger.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And what happened

Malcolm Collins: at the hospital? So you said they had to cauterize it without anesthetics?

Simone Collins: Yeah, I well, the first, I told the first urgent care clinic, so I [00:58:00] first went to the hospital and they were like, go to an urgent care clinic.

And then I went to one and I told them what had happened and they said they weren't gonna see me. They, they like, looked really scared and then they were like, no. And then I went to the second urgent care clinic and after a really long wait they, they saw me and they, I took my bandages off the nurse who was seeing me, who had brought out stuff to help clean the wound, it looked like she was gonna pass out.

And I was like, would you like me to clean it up? She's like, yeah, I'll, I'll be back. The doctor will see you soon. And so I just sat alone in the room trying to clean off the, the stress. Simon? No. But then, yeah, so everyone had told me to get, what was it? Zinc oxide to cauterize the wound. And I was like, oh, interesting.

So there's some kind of like, ointment that must seal off wounds. I thought it was like metaphorical cauterizing. Not like you [00:59:00] burn something to cauterize, but No, it's just a chemical burn. But it's not a chemical burn on your skin. It's a chemical burn. Oh God. Inside your open wound. Oh, she

Malcolm Collins: cut off part of her fingernail and every, it was horrible.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And IPSA to people, when your spouse tells you, you need to be more careful with something. Listen to them

Malcolm Collins: because Simone knows, like regularly, I would be like, no, you can't cut it. Like, like if I was in the room, you knew I always stopped you cutting things and was like, okay, you have to do it. And you would glare at me like I was the biggest bully in the world.

Simone Collins: If I, I mean, to be fair, if I cut the way that you cut, I would never prepare a meal in time. It would be like midnight when we ate dinner.

Malcolm Collins: Well then maybe we should find ways to use things like food processors more.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I, I, I, I think I just need to use tools or chain meal gloves going forward, especially when pregnant.

Malcolm also is always on me about tripping because I'm very clumsy and lo and [01:00:00] behold, what did I do Just two days earlier I tripped and got blood all over my clothing and have a huge bruise now and everything hurts. And like, and show

Malcolm Collins: people

Simone Collins: how pregnant you

Malcolm Collins: are, by the

Simone Collins: way. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: I don't know. I'm I,

Simone Collins: I'm very pregnant.

You, you can't always very

Malcolm Collins: pregnant. Yes. This is not good. I am trying to. So listen, listen to your spouses. We'll get, see our Halloween theming back here. Yeah, it's getting, okay. Question for you Simone. Yeah. Comments on the episode today? On the new theory that we have, the one

Simone Collins: area where people wanna push back, is that Okay?

Sure. Culture. Culture, et cetera. But genetics plays a role. A bunch of people were like, yeah, but why are there so many basketball players of a certain heritage and why? You know,

Malcolm Collins: I look, I'm saying, and I think you need to understand that this is the episode on, on, on cultural caring capacity. That there are some conversations that if you [01:01:00] have they're just not productive given the way society is structured right now.

Well, yeah. I mean, we

Simone Collins: don't have germline gene editing right now, so we can't be like. Well, then let's

Malcolm Collins: not just that, it's, it's, you have these conversations and then that conversation is the only thing people remember you bought, right? Mm-hmm. Like that becomes your soundbite or something like that. And it's just not worth engaging with those ideas when there's so many other spicy ideas you could, and those ideas aren't even spicy anymore.

They're like the, the pumpkin latte or whatever pumpkin spice latte of spicy ideas. It's like everybody effing, like, is aware of the arguments on both sides. If you are into spicy ideas, like, why do you need us to burn our careers, like going over them for you. I just, it, it feels so indulgent to me.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean it, yeah. And also like if you can't really do much about it. Why is it interesting? We, we, we are a podcast of [01:02:00] action. We believe in actionable ideas. Yeah. I

Malcolm Collins: don't really think it's worth, I agree with you, it's not really worth having conversations about things that aren't actionable.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Or to talk about an idea that is not, you know, going to lead to any, any sort of possible actionable change in society.

Speaker 4: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, exactly. And one that all of our listeners know about anyway, like what's the, you know, whatever. I think they just wanna indulge

Simone Collins: in, like thinking her, her.

Malcolm Collins: I'm for her. They said the naughty thing. Yeah, that or

Speaker 5: like, Hmm. So you've seen my group is better, or like, oh, you see, this is why I can't achieve anything.

Malcolm Collins: This actually goes with something that we do with our episodes where with every episode I try to take a position on something that's different from the position that everyone else is taking.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: And I try not to, well, not

Simone Collins: arbitrarily, but you, you are interested in sharing opinions when that's the case, because then you have something to contribute.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. There's, you know, other channels you can go to if that's what you want. [01:03:00] Final question, Simone. I was gonna ask you. I the burning

Simone Collins: sensation doesn't go away. If you were wondering, it just stays.

Malcolm Collins: I'm so sorry, Simon.

Simone Collins: Okay. I'm not gonna bring it up anymore. It's just that I, it's not gonna exist as a topic.

What was your other question?

Malcolm Collins: I don't know. I don't want you to. I feel that way, but I'm really sorry.

Simone Collins: It was my fault for not listening to you. So again, PSA to people, you were making my dinner. Yeah. But it turned out good. So it was worth it.

Malcolm Collins: And I wasn't downstairs.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Well, so I feel I abandoned you while you were doing me a favor.

No. And you hurt yourself. And everybody knows you don't want your partner to hurt themselves. It makes you feel so bad. This is true. I'm so

Simone Collins: glad this happened to me and not you.

What was your final question? I'm sorry. Oh, I was

Malcolm Collins: gonna say, what I do love is in the romance mangas, I read one of the protagonist types that I like the most is the very like stole work warrior woman.

[01:04:00] And that is totally you. I, I want to be stalwart anyway.

Simone Collins: I may not be graceful, but I can be stalwart. I'm excited for this episode now. Let's do it.

Malcolm Collins: Right.

Speaker 10: You gonna have Playdoh? I need you to wait for a second. What are you doing? I with the Playdoh. Did you eat the Play-Doh? No. I guess made the Play-Doh. But you pretended like you were gonna eat it. Why'd you do that? I saidoh.

Join Malcolm and Simone Collins as they dive into the provocative concept of "Cultural Carrying Capacity"—the idea that a region's ability to sustain a population is determined not just by its environment, but by the culture of the people living there. They discuss real-world examples, from Appalachia to Israel, and explore how technology, culture, and even genetics play a role in shaping societies. The conversation covers controversial topics like demographic collapse, cultural differences, ethnic cartels, and the future of human communities on Earth and beyond.

Join Malcolm and Simone Collins as they dive deep into the recent political upheaval in Nepal, exploring the Gen Z-led protests, government crackdowns, and the broader implications for global politics. Discover how social media bans, corruption, and generational divides are shaping the future—not just in Nepal, but around the world. The conversation also touches on the concept of "Nepo babies," the role of social media in activism, and what these events might signal for other countries facing similar challenges. Stay tuned for insightful analysis, personal stories, and a touch of humor as Malcolm and Simone break down complex issues in an accessible way.

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. Today we're gonna be discussing going on of Nepal because with all of the political stuff that's happening in the United States right now, I think we've sort of been like broadly aware, like they had like a revolution or something in Nepal, right?

Speaker 2: Nepal is seeing an uprising led not by political veterans, but by Gen Z.

Malcolm Collins: Like what happened with that and what you're gonna be surprised about. Is how relevant what happened in Nepal is to, what's going to happen in most of the developed world as things continued on the pathway they're going now.

Speaker 2: Teenagers and young adults are flooding the streets, furious over us. Sweeping government ban on their digital lifelines

Last week. Authorities abruptly cut access to major platforms like Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.

Simone Collins: Well, and this is after what was happening in Indonesia, and this is also like, as there are huge protests in the uk we're seeing there's unrest is the thing now.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah. Unrest is the thing and in many cases it's for similar reasons. Mm-hmm. And so let's, let's go in what get, get your butt educated people. Why don't you know about what, maybe you do know about what's going on in the fall, but it's, it's interesting nonetheless. So, police crack down on September 8th, security forces fired.

Live ammunition. Live ammunition. So we're talking about like how bad things are getting firing live ammunition, tear gas and water cannons and rubber billets into crowds in your parliament. So. Opening fire into a crowd. Okay. They killed 19 people and injured 200 people.

Simone Collins: And this was largely young students, wasn't it?

I think it was also a lot of young people, students like who were

Malcolm Collins: killed. Yeah. And there's videos of graphic scenes, including children who were shot in the head. Sparking nationwide outrage and curfews. So this was extreme, and if you're like, well, when do we get this in the us when does the uk You saw this Million Man March on London that mm-hmm.

That, you know, anyone who watched the videos can tell was giant. Like they're trying to report it like a hundred thousand people, and it's clearly. Oh. The UK is pissed. It's gotten way more pissed since, since you know, we talk about it being under occupation 'cause we're like, you know, what kind of country bans the flying of their own flags.

A country that's currently under occupation. That's the only time you would do that. Yeah. A government would never be afraid of their own flag unless that wasn't who was represented by it anymore.

Simone Collins: Exactly. So

Malcolm Collins: when do they open fire on a crowd in London or Germany or Berlin, you know? Or, or, or France.

I think it'll happen eventually.

Simone Collins: I mean, it helps that police officers in the UK don't have guns. They just have their little batons.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Be beaten Was their fabulous batons. The

Simone Collins: fabulous batons.

. Aren't you afraid the fashion police will come and beat you with their fabulous batons? No.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway so, protestors, this is September and ninth stormed and set fire to the Parliament, the Supreme Court, which burnt down the Prime Minister's office.

Cigna Debar administrative complex and politicians private homes. Private properties like the Hilton and Hyatt hotels along with media houses. EG Kenton per publications were torched. Oh goodness. One tragic incident. It evolved The burning alive of the former P'S wife.

Simone Collins: Oh my gosh.

Malcolm Collins: So we're talking quite a bit of violence here.

Simone Collins: Carnage on both sides.

Malcolm Collins: Jail breaks and further clashes. September 9th and 10th mobs broke into prisons in the Western districts, freeing over 12,500 inmates, including politician, rabbi Lament mentioned. I mean,

Simone Collins: one imagines the prisons just cracked open from the inside being that over stuffed. My God.

Malcolm Collins: The Army was deployed with shoot on site. Instructions assaults on officials, and there's a video of this that I saw. It was just wild. The deputy PM and finance minister was beaten by protestors and you see him like trying to walk, run away and being like attacked by people as he tries to run.

Speaker: In the video that has gone viral Minister POAL 65 is seen running through the streets in Cat Mandu with the crowd of people chasing him. One of the protestors is seen kicking Poal, who is also the country's deputy prime minister. Other protestors get hold of him as he seeks to escape through the river.

Malcolm Collins: Other politicians, residents were vandalized, heightening chaos before the army restored order. So what instigated this? Are you aware of what instigated this Simone?

Simone Collins: I thought it was anger about widespread corruption, but I

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no. That is what they moved to afterwards, but what actually instigated it was.

The government tried to heavily regulate social media to prevent anything negative about the government from being shown on social media.

Simone Collins: Oh, boy.

Malcolm Collins: Everybody now the uk

Simone Collins: UK did it. Right? You know, they did a whole like, boil the frog. Where it sounds like Nepal just, you, you, you can't, you can't just crack down all at once.

Well,

Malcolm Collins: no, they, they've been doing this for a while. They had under the former king just complete control by the state of of. Media. So this is more like they had a period of more liberal media a lot of, oh, but you can't close

Simone Collins: Pandora's Box. The, the internet is. If anything ever was a lot

Malcolm Collins: of corruption in the media, a lot of hiding stuff, which we'll go over.

But the internet made it impossible. And so the government was trying to find a way to take control of that. And this is why you know, I always say anyone on the right who says we should be banning pornography. I, I really look at them with skepticism as a left wing infiltrator because

you can't ban pornography without banning VPNs. And when you ban VPNs, you ban, you give the government total control of what people can see within your co country. Mm-hmm. Because then the government gets to decide, de decide what's vulgar. Right. You don't get to decide what's vulgar. Totally. The government gets to decide what's vulgar and when the government changes, you lose control.

Right. They'll say. Well, you know, okay,

Simone Collins: not vol, vulgar is a bad word. Forbidden. Because vulgar is basically just saying common or low class.

Malcolm Collins: Well, that's what I mean, because they'll say, well, you know, you, you banned this stuff because it could lead to, they'll say, well, you banned this type of pornography because it could lead to violence.

Or because it could lead to like social ills. Mm-hmm. Why shouldn't we ban racism? We define racism, by the way, why shouldn't we ban transphobia? We define transphobia, by the way, because those things also lead to social ills. And are vulgar and bad.

Simone Collins: No, no, no. V the vulgar is not the word that violent or damaging or dangerous, those words,

Malcolm Collins: whatever.

This is what we've seen in every country that goes down this pathway.

Simone Collins: Okay?

Malcolm Collins: It's, it's a very bad thing to, to play around with, okay? Mm-hmm. Not, not, not a fun potato there, let.

Simone Collins: I'm just sorry, the, the word vulgar. Like it's vulgar to eat a roll by just taking a bite out of it instead of taking a piece and putting it in your mouth after buttering it.

Right? Like vulgar is a word about class. It's not about government control and safety. Okay, Mike,

Malcolm Collins: you are a Nazi, a grammar Nazi.

Simone Collins: I am. Deal with it.

Malcolm Collins: Social media use in Nepal is widespread analysis from digital advisory form. Kops found that there were 14.3 million active social media identities in Nepal at the start of 2025.

If each user were a distinct person, that would account for about half of the country's population. But many social media platforms have reportedly repeatedly rejected directives from DePaul government to register with the country's ministry of communication and information. Hmm. On September 29th, last year, the Nepalese Supreme Court ordered all social media platforms in Nepal to register before operating so authorities could monitor undesirable content, which is.

Woo. You know, you're, you're getting into some problems when they're using those sorts of broad words. Seriously. With the text of the court verdict made public last month to comply with the order. The ministry issued public notice to social media platforms on August 28th. Giving them seven days to register.

If they didn't, they would be deactivated in the country. Hmm. Some companies like TikTok and Message Platform, Viber did register before the deadline. TikTok had previously been banned to quote unquote protect social harmony, but the ban was lifted after the company agreed to coordinate with law enforcement to address crimes related to the platform.

Hmm. But others repeatedly continued to ignore the order. So when the deadline passed, the government banned 26 social media platforms, including. Facebook, WhatsApp, Instagram, and Google owned platforms like YouTube. Yeah, not great. The sweeping band threatened to upend Facebook's recent content monetization launch in Nepal, which could help Nepali creators earn money.

So this is also about earning money for the, the people who are, you know, big career these days. Yeah,

Simone Collins: our

Malcolm Collins: career, right? Yeah.

Simone Collins: Patreon, please. Yeah. Our career if we are very lucky and we continue to work hard. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And also threaten to impact other NLI businesses that depend on social media platforms.

It also raised concerns about media freedom in the country. Recent attempts 2023 to 2025. The government increasingly targeted social media for political control. In November, 2023, Nepal briefly banned TikTok citing its role in spreading quote unquote social disharmony amid videos exposing political corruption and inequality.

So this is why they have banned things in the past when things have started to spread, showing. Political corruption inequality. Mm-hmm. Especially with the political clause. The 2025 ban itself is a, a prime example as it followed a Supreme Court ruling in August two five mandating the platform registered to monitor misinformation, but it presided was a surging online criticism of Prime Minister KP Shama Oilies administration over nepotism and economic failures.

This led to violent protests highlighting how such measures backfire. Underscore intent to curb anti regime messaging. Companies like Facebook, meta, YouTube, Google, and Ex, formerly Twitter and others did not comply for a few reasons. 'cause I'm interested in why they didn't just comply. I was like, you can just get the, you don't care about the people of Nepal, you turd.

So the first reason was re resistance to local presence and data sharing. Establishing a local office could expose them to greater government oversight, including demands for user data, content, takedowns or backdoor access, raising privacy and free speech concerns. Big tech firms often avoid this super prevent setting precedents in other markets where similar laws could lead to authoritarian control.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Basically they can never back down unless it's China and the market's big enough.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: That's the way it works, is these companies, you know what's up? It's

Simone Collins: though it totally is

Malcolm Collins: operational cost burdens. Compliance might involve significant resources for smaller markets like depal with around 30 million people, including hiring staff and attempting.

Local regulations without clear benefits for meta, the ban disrupted recent initiatives like content monetization for nip creators principled stance and free expression. We all know that's not true. So no, I don't, I don't, I don't buy that. From Facebook. Come on, buddy. Okay. So, let's talk about the nepo kids and the corruption thing because the, the corruption complaints really come from the Nepo kids thing.

Simone Collins: So apparently

Malcolm Collins: there's like this,

Simone Collins: so the thing, it's just the same issue with Indonesia, wasn't it? This was

Malcolm Collins: all, I guess I didn't look at Indonesia in preparation for this.

Simone Collins: Okay. My understanding was that another big issue also in Indonesia was that the nepo babies of politicians who were ingratiating themselves were basically flaunting their extravagant lives on social media, causing a lot of resentment and anger.

Justified. Yeah. This is also happening in Nepal.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, apparently they're having a problem. And you, you, you can look at the videos they post. I mean, they'd make me a lot mad if I was an average citizen not earning much and, and, you know, the government was taking my tax dollars and using it so that their kids could live like kings and get, you know, unique access to government positions.

Yeah. Which, which is what you're seeing here.

Simone Collins: Yeah. What I'm reading is like there in, in some of these countries that are going through now corruption related unrest. They are, for example, setting guaranteed incomes for their politicians that are like five x the average income in the country. And they, they don't just own one house and live comfortably.

They own like five houses. And, you know, during these protests, there are politicians fleeing to their home in Singapore just to kind of let it blow over. And it's just making people increasingly angry.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So, these posts were shared using hashtags. Hashtag politicians, Nepo baby Nepal and hashtag Nepo kids and hashtag nepo babies.

One such post on TikTok has ranked more than 1.3 million views. It follows a similar trend in the Philippines where the Nepo baby children of public works contractors and of. Officials have been shamed online for flaunting wealth and luxury, amid concerns of corruption and growing scrutiny on unfinished flood control projects.

In Nepal, one, protestor told the BBC that the social media ban served as a reason for the demonstrators to gather. But it wasn't the true quote unquote focus, which was on broader corruption. Quote, we want our country back. We came to stop the corruption end quote.

Simone Collins: Huh?

Malcolm Collins: Thoughts? I mean, I think this is the way we feel, right?

Like, when I, the reporter who we've been complaining about, who came to do a documentary at our house for like a hi, and we, we just had to discuss a little documentary project, just be like, I can't work with you. One of the reasons that always got to me is not only was she like a far left racist extremist, you regularly talking like bad things about white people and men and stuff like this.

But she had this whole narrative where she was this hugely disadvantaged individual who had overcome so much. And I believed it at first because she painted her picture, like she grew up like a borderline homeless, was like crack addicted parents. And then I look up. It was like, no, her parents were very successful.

New York socialite, her mom ran an art gallery and her dad was a New York Times writer. And a, and a very accomplished, well famous

Simone Collins: writer for some really like highbrow New York publication.

Malcolm Collins: No, it was a New York Times. It wasn't, it wasn't New York. Yeah. I think he did a few publications, few highbrow publications.

Yeah. And them being crack addicts was more just like, my parents did drugs in the eighties. Girl, like, what are you talking about? That's not. All the socialites in New York were doing drugs on in the eighties. Like,

Simone Collins: oh, who's boomer? Parents didn't do a ton of drugs. Yeah. Your parents were hippies. Of course.

They were doing drugs. Like, yeah. My, my, I mean, the reason why I probably don't have fetal alcohol syndrome, 'cause my mom didn't know she was pregnant until her second trimester was because she had gotten really, really, really, really, really sick from drinking too much one night and then just kind of was like, I'm gonna take a break.

So, and she didn't drink that much.

Malcolm Collins: That could have been you making her sick, by the way.

Simone Collins: No. No. I mean, it could have been me, but I mean, what, the way she put it was that like they were out for a night, they got a little outta hand and I. She was like, I'm gonna step back my drinking girl. Okay. Well, the,

Malcolm Collins: the, the, the wider point here being that she's like a, an influential person on the left.

So, so you see this within the left is the most disgusting type of nepo baby in American politics, which is the nepo baby that doesn't believe that they're a Nepo baby and believes that, believes they're a victim. Yeah. And a victim. Mm-hmm. There is nothing worse than somebody. Who has been given every advantage in life over other people and plays the card of a victim.

Simone Collins: Do you think these nepo babies and like Nepal, Indonesia are doing that though? Because my, the impression I get is that they're not, they're just flaunting it.

Malcolm Collins: I, I, I mean they're the, that would make rich

Simone Collins: kids of Instagram

Malcolm Collins: more insufferable. So to me they're, I mean, look, we got like a nepo baby. Ga Gavin Newsom in the United States who's like, I'm disabled, I have dyslexia.

And we point out our episode of Stop Being Retarded About Disability. I've got dyslexia and I don't even like, consider it a disability. It's like irrelevant in terms of my life story. Mm. When contrasted with like 12 other more serious disabilities I have. Yeah. And

Simone Collins: it, it does make people angry when like they deal with these things and much worse things all the time.

And.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well this is the thing, whenever you come out there playing this victim card, like this reporter who's like, oh, you know, my childhood, all this, and it's like, you don't know our background with our parents, and, and maybe we don't talk about that because I don't wanna cast my parents in a bad light.

Like I could, I could talk much more detailed about that if I wanted to, but I actively choose not to because I don't. I, I believe I have a strong relationship, relationship with my parents. I like them as people and it's what people like that were doing in the eighties. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Culturally normative.

And, and the reason I was so upset with her about it is she doesn't even have like a terrible relation with her, her dad, right. Like, she's got a really strong relat, which is her surviving parent, a really strong relation. And I think the only reason I don't hold it against her that much is her dad has also written about this, you know, playing the.

I'm a victim card.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So he, I don't think she was the one who outed him for this, but you know, again, she was

Simone Collins: trained to also maybe do things that way. So

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Trained to do things that way instead of, so

Simone Collins: people are getting mad. And I think a bigger dynamic here is you've talked in other episodes when you talk about dependency ratio cascades, how a really big undermining democracy issue that it will arise as demographic labs plays out as older populations.

Balloon and younger pop populations relatively dwindle that people. Who become the majority of society and our net tax drains are going to only vote themselves more money or at least the same amount of money. They're not gonna scale things back for themselves, and they're going to be able to have that hold because they have more votes.

I think this is showing a magnified version of the problem where government bureaucrats and policymakers are that, but worse as, as the world falls apart and as the world burns and as dependency ratio cascades play out, even as, for example, maybe say the US government is going to just start. An inflationary spiral by saying, oh, no, no, no.

We're, we're keeping social security, we're not scaling it back. We're keeping Medicaid, but then just printing a ton of money and kind of devaluating, devaluing the dollar. So you are receiving what you were supposed to receive, but you can't, you don't have purchasing power anymore at, at that point though, I still think that government employees, and certainly to a greater extent, policy makers are going to make sure that they somehow.

Are receiving inflation adjusted dollars. You know, and I think it's already happening even before for fertility or dependency ratio. Cascades play out in countries like Indonesia, in, in countries like Nepal where maybe things are falling apart. But people who have policy control are making sure that they get theirs because they can.

And that's, this is just a problem. It's a tragedy of the commons problem, like the people who have the ability to steal the resources. When the resources become increasingly limited, they're gonna do it, and then people are gonna get mad and then social order's gonna fall apart. Yeah. And we're gonna see more of this, right?

Like this is just, this is just the warmup.

Malcolm Collins: But I, I think the, the reason why I mentioned this is, is one of the things that I find most disgusting, and I see this increasingly on the left. Is the worst kind of nepo baby institutional system is Individuals who are nepo babies pretend that they are discriminated either minorities or discriminated.

Like if you are a Nepo baby. That trumps minority status in terms of who you, that's a survival

Simone Collins: tactic because they, they want to protect themselves. And if they, they think that if they frame themselves as victims, they won't be attacked for their privilege. Because I think there's an understanding that as, as this unfair game is played out, people will want blood, they're gonna wanna, they're gonna wanna eat the rich yeah.

And own the name of victims. And so if you can masquerade as a victim. While also unfairly appropriating resources, you can survive. And this is, you know, people, morality's gonna fly out the window when people are starving and dying. Yeah. People care a whole lot less about holy optics don't look good here.

Like, hey, maybe it's not that cool that I'm taking resources that I didn't earn. You know? Right. I mean, people already seem to have no qualms about that, but. It's only gonna get worse. And so of course people are going to do anything they can to make it look like they're innocent and to shield themselves from being targeted.

How the, this shouldn't surprise you. And it's, it's inevitable and it's going to happen and it's a survival tactic because we've evolved to do things to help us. Right. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So to continue here, what's the Nepo Kid movement? Hmm. So the specter of social media going dark in Nepal. Also, coincided was a growing online movement calling out Nepal Nepo kids.

Nepo kids appears to have been borrowed from the Hollywood popularized term, Nepo baby who. Which refers to the nepotistic practice of children of celebrities getting opportunities because of their familial connections. In recent days, Nepali citizens took to platforms like TikTok and Reddit to post images and videos of children, of political leaders, including those, the former prime ministers and ministers, according to the KADO Post, who they accused of using taxpayer money to fund lavish lifestyles in foreign trips.

And I would note here this, this for me. Is really important because a lot of people know I was born to a very wealthy family that very publicly lost all their money. Mm-hmm. But I was always told I was never gonna inherit any of the family's money. And I could have gone to, like, my family had a, like a gazebo that, that has our name at Harvard.

And so I thought, you know, when I was playing to Harvard Business School, 'cause once you get into the interview I'm like, oh, you know, 50% chance of getting in and my family's ever gonna help me. Now's the time, right? To call in a favor. Yeah. This

Simone Collins: is, this is when you get to cash in your Nepo baby token.

Malcolm Collins: I was like, I really proved myself and my dad's like, I'm gonna send them a letter telling them not to accept you. No, I don't know if he did that, but he's like, it's really disgusting to attempt to get in through family connections to anything. And I ended up getting into Stanford where I didn't have the same family connections.

Now I will note my dad did go to Stanford undergrad. If you're not aware of how Stanford works, the graduate school of business is actually a separate institution than the undergrad. So being an undergrad legacy is completely irrelevant to being a graduate school legacy. This is,

Simone Collins: you're still gonna catch so, so much s**t for this because at the same time you're like, Hmm, university system is corrupt.

And then, you know, you keep mentioning that you went to Stanford.

Malcolm Collins: Well, it matters because I beat their ga like I was an nepo baby in, in regards to having the educational background to even get into that. Like would I have been able to get into that if I had a side job like you did while I was in my undergrad?

Almost certainly not. Certainly not. I mean, Simone is much more diligent than I am, so she was able to have a side job and graduate top of her classroom, gw, and get into Cambridge for graduate school. Malcolm, you had

Simone Collins: ran like all the clubs at St. Andrew's, you had job. Well, that's part of why I got into Stanford

Malcolm Collins: is because I ran all the cl I did run a number, like all the science clubs.

I like ran the Neuroscience Society and the Psychology Society and the Biology Society. You were just as, as busy as I was.

Simone Collins: Yeah. No, no. You were just as busy as I was.

Malcolm Collins: I guess I was, but I was able to use all that for resume padding, Simone, that's like, come on.

Simone Collins: And so was I,

Malcolm Collins: I suppose. But the point here being is I try to take ownership even when I don't get the full advantages.

Like even if I don't get the money or anything like that, and I've had to make my own money I still recognize the advantages I get from code switching. And most importantly, I recognize the genetic advantages my family gave me.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that's that's key.

Malcolm Collins: You know, and I, I, that was the thing that really bothered me about the reporter because, you know, obviously they're in this position of genetics don't matter 'cause she's taking this far left position.

I'm like, oh really? Really magnanimous of you famous you know, documentarian who has famous creative parents to, to pretend like you weren't born was a deck astronomically stacked in your favor. And, and I, I admit that about myself as well. The deck was astronomically stacked in my favor, but the biggest advantage I was born was with a genetic one.

Mm-hmm. And I can, like, even though my family lost all the money, right? Like the central family where everyone, because parts of the money had been distributed before this, but then it was stolen because one person was managing all of the, the pools. $45 million by the way. If you're wondering how much

Simone Collins: this is what people get for outsourcing their services, I just like, don't

Malcolm Collins: what we didn't want to it had to do with.

Anyway, family, politics, f it was

Simone Collins: required like what? Per trusts or something? No, it

Malcolm Collins: had to do with old people in the family, being old people and not listening to what all the young people were telling them. Oh,

Simone Collins: yeah, yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. No. But they, yeah, I'm still make saying that they made the mistake of but the,

Malcolm Collins: the point I was gonna make here was, even though they lost everything, so nobody in my family had cash transfers to the next generation. I find out, like one of my cousins created the technology behind the here movie. The really cool like AI technology that can fully create actors. Another one is running the company in Texas that does automated trucks self-driving

Simone Collins: trucks.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Self, no, admittedly she married into the family so called Aurora. Yeah. Yeah. So she, not genetically related, but I mean her husband was genetically related and shows that, you know, women like her are choosing people like that. And then, I forgot this last time I mentioned this, but three other members of, of, of my cousins or siblings run, well, I know one runs a fund that's over a billion dollars, and I think the two other run funds that are probably at least half a billion. Yeah, they're all really successful, wildly successful. I am the, the big failure of the family. I am, I am nobody failure, but this is what I mean. You don't get that kind of success over and over and over and over again, even though they didn't have.

You know, the cards in their hands to start, right? Mm-hmm. So how did that happen over and over and over again? It's likely genetics. Whatever, you know, that's, that's just

Simone Collins: ignoring that is, is deeply insensitive. Well, it is

Malcolm Collins: deeply insensitive because it's not saying, people are like, oh, are you saying they're genetically superior?

No, I'm saying that for one of them, to pretend that other people had an equal chance in life that they did is deeply insensitive because you are ignoring. An advantage that you had that other people didn't have. Ignoring a systemic bias in your favor is not magnanimous. Mm-hmm. It's psychotic and evil, and it allows you to act in a psychotic and evil fashion.

But what was the result of all of this, right? Like, what, what happened as a result of all the protests and everything like that, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: There was a reverse of the social media ban. The primary trigger. The government's September 4th ban on 26 platforms was lifted on September 9th, amid escalating unrest.

The direct. This directly addressed one of the protestors core demands, restoring access, allowing for your communication. No other major laws were reversed, but the Ban's rollback was framed as a regulatory concession. Under new registration requirements, leadership changes. The Prime Minister KP Shama Oley resigned on September 9th.

Marking the end of his fourth term and a significant win against perceived corruption of administration. Several cabinet members followed suit, including the home minister who stepped down over the band and others, including Deputy PM finance minister, who was reportedly beaten, beaten during the chaos On September 12th, former Supreme Court Chief Justice Shami Kki was sworn in as Prime Minister.

And Nepal's first, female PM gaining support from Gen Z leaders. For, yeah, apparently it was like on Discord

Simone Collins: servers where the, the groundswell of support first emerged for her, which I think just also goes to show how on social media the younger generation in Nepal is and how influential things like discord now are.

Malcolm Collins: Yep. The the president Ram Chad Polli refused to resign, but the interim government is tasked with stabilizing the country and preparing for potential elections in March, 2026. Other gains, the government announced compensation of 1 million Nepalese rupees for the victims. I, I think this is for the death victims.

Just, you know how that is per death, that's $7,000. Really big spenders there. Nepal's National Day, September 19th was canceled due to unrest. Brought our commitment include dialogue reforms, though critics argue that these are superficial without addressing the root causes. Yeah, like unemployment being 20.8% for age of 15 to 24.

Simone Collins: Oh, good Lord.

Malcolm Collins: Personally, highlight Gen Z's influence with some use participating in post. Unrest cleanups to restore normalcy and boost tourism.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It's not gonna, the, the problem is still there. It's gonna get worse. Although, let's, what's Nepal's? Two L, fertility route. Nepal. TFR. How are they doing?

1.76. So they're better than the United States. That's good.

Malcolm Collins: Well, they're also a lot poorer. Look at the average yearly income.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So, you know, not great. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Acknowledged. Acknowledged, fully acknowledged.

Malcolm Collins: Nepal was where we were running that organization was a USAID or whatever that was trying to grow atheist groups, right?

Like convert people to atheism. What. Yeah. If I remember correctly, it was in Nepal. Oh, okay. The US A was funding that. Surely that made them like us more. Yay. Yay. No, but we're going to see this more and more. We're gonna see this. And, and it's interesting to me because I think a lot of people predicted as the use generation got smaller, we'd see less protests.

And I think what we're actually seeing is they're more angry. That they're being increasingly disenfranchised and the older generations are just don't care about them, and they're more agentic. So we'll see. Do they, do they become more agentic or do they become AI's loss? I, I don't know. Right. What, what, what's your, what's your read on this?

Simone Collins: I, I think it's gonna be really hard to tell. I think we're, we're, we are going to see in countries that demand control. We'll, we will see violence and pushback case in point here with Nepal trying to control social media. I think countries that basically resign control and allow for the creation of charter cities and basically sovereign territories because they'll acknowledge I can no longer afford a police force here.

I can no longer do this. I can no longer do that. But I am going to allow. Basically sovereign states that are kind of like technically members of my country to just step in and now provide those services under their own governance with a great degree of freedom. I think that those countries will remain fairly stable.

Kind of going to a milit system like you saw in the, the Persian Empire. Yeah. Countries that devolve or evolve into a millet system or a city state or charter city system will see stability. And a transition to that that's more or less as peaceful as possible. And I think that countries that attempt to centrally control their population and exploit them to maintain.

Like to get resources, et cetera, are going to see increasing levels of violence. 'cause people aren't gonna stand for that. What are you, I mean, I, and I also feel like culturally and based on historical precedent, the United States is well positioned to enter a millet system, era a, a techno futile era.

I don't know if that's actually gonna happen, but I feel like that's kind of our best shot. What are your thoughts?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, what were you saying? I, I, I zoned out there.

Simone Collins: I think our best shot at having a viable future is if the United States evolves into a millet system or techno futile. Oh, a milit system.

Empire or techno feal. Yeah. I mean, the techno

Malcolm Collins: futile empires are gonna be the ones that survive.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And I mean, you can also see like the EU is failing because they are trying to do the opposite of that. They're trying to use a centralized, bureaucratic body to control things, to regulate things. And that's not working.

Nepal was trying to centrally control its people. China, to a great extent. China's actually an interesting case because it has set up some kind of charter city, like tech cities. Yeah. But they're like, you do, you and I. That makes me think maybe you guys are gonna figure this out like this. Could China could figure it out through, through those pathways.

Who knows? So I, but yeah, that's, that's what I think the meeting indicator is gonna be.

Malcolm Collins: Focus on ai, which is really important if you're thinking about the future. Yeah. So we'll see. Anyway, I love you to death, Simone. I love you too. That's how we saved the world. You just figured it out. You solved it.

Simone Collins: You're welcome.

Malcolm Collins: For dinner tonight, we are reheating the cocky, the bullock

Simone Collins: cock, the

Malcolm Collins: dish you made yesterday. It's Korean and I, the,

Simone Collins: the horrible thing is I wanna keep saying cocky and I, I don't

Malcolm Collins: rice noodles.

Simone Collins: Bullock Bullock, it means fire chicken, U-L-D-A-K. Chicken and,

Malcolm Collins: and, and they put mozzarella on top and it's just spectacular.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: it's like a, yeah. Very sweet, spicy dish with a lot of cheese. Mm-hmm. And just like a beverage. Yeah. It's

Simone Collins: basically marinated tiny chicken chunks, which to which you can also add onion and other things, but we didn't marinated in chili flakes, goch sauce, brown sugar, honey pepper like some other seasonings, and then sauteed, and then broiled.

Under mozzarella cheese. It's such fusion, right? Because it's not like ozella boil.

Malcolm Collins: Are you gonna put it in like a new bowl to broil it? Because I don't think those are, I know,

Simone Collins: I, I refrigerated it in a ramekin. And I'm going to put it in the air fryer to melt the cheese on top after. Ah,

Malcolm Collins: that'll work really well, I think.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm, I'm gonna pop it in the microwave for like one minute to get it warm from the inside because I don't want just like a burned top and then a cold inside. Yeah. Well,

Malcolm Collins: I also, I also think that, the will it melt the cheese, right? I mean, it should. We're doing wet cheese a time and, and so the goals,

Simone Collins: yeah, I'm, I'm gonna do a low, I'm gonna do a low air fryer setting

Malcolm Collins: and I wouldn't mind it dehydrating a little bit.

Yeah, I think that'd, so it's mostly

Simone Collins: gonna just warm and dehydrate and melt, slowly melt the cheese. But yeah, I mean, as you know, when you have what's it called? Pizza margarita. That's the same kind of high moisture mozzarella cheese circles that you see on that. I prefer grated mozzarella.

That's low moisture, but like, I think this will work perfect, especially for the ramekins in which I,

Malcolm Collins: I a hundred percent agree. Yeah, the

Simone Collins: leftovers,

Malcolm Collins: and people who are helping with the development of our like AI chat adventure engine on our fab.ai. I really appreciate it. I know it's very buggy right now.

All the feedback you give when you run into bugs or run into issues or features that you want is incredibly helpful on Musk making this type of project that we can then pay to advertise one day like a real product. But I feel like we're close to that, you know? I'm so exciting, and people are like, why don't, why don't you pay to advertise the school because it works much better?

And it's like, well, because the school is good and I want you guys to have access to that, and I want your kids to have access to that this.io, but it's very hard to make money off of educational products. So we're just Yeah, you just don't,

Simone Collins: you don't. We learned after like doing a lot of venture capital outreach and networking with other people who are working on schools and trying to sell them to school districts and private schools and homeschooling groups.

That basically you don't, you don't make money in this space. No one makes money in this space unless you're like one of the really big players that has spent, you know, five years in huge amounts of capital in a sales team and basically just juicing the system and using weird arbitrage opportunities like schools have all these weird funds that various laws have appropriated and you don't necessarily know where these existed.

Like there are some underperforming schools that have through various bits of legislation and policy been basically given like slush funds of like spend this money on this kind of tutoring to fix your underperforming schools. And then, so there are these secret schools that you have to know how to look for that just have money to burn.

On products that you can be like, this product is for that money thing that we, you need to burn and then you can sell to them. It's not based on merit, it's not based on you actually, like, I mean, you should have case studies showing that you can solve the problem, but it's more based on finding these arbitrage opportunities.

And I hate industries like that. We, we, we just want a product that people find useful that they can use. So at least your NSFW AI will. Well give the people what they want.

Malcolm Collins: It's not, the adventure mode is more fleshed out than the not safer for work section, by the way. I know. But I'm

Simone Collins: much more interested in exploring more of the, the not safer work.

Malcolm Collins: I, I fixed a not safer work engine creator, by the way, for people who were using it before. It wasn't working very well because it still had safer work language in, and that's all been fixed and updated. Mm. And I'm, and I'm continuing to work on improving that. Like, this is gonna improve something.

'cause I work on this every day. I wanna, I want this to be good. And I want people to see it and be like, that's a really. Solid product right there. I enjoy going on Zaki Adventures in AI worlds.

Simone Collins: I'm excited for it. Eventually, maybe you'll have a version that like literally creates the manga. Like the illustrated panels as you go.

Malcolm Collins: I would love that. And I we're looking at doing art creation. Next is, is the next feature we're gonna add. And well, not, not the very next, the very next one is we're gonna do streaming responses. 'cause right now it outputs the entire response in a block. So it'll just feel like it's responding much quicker to people.

I

Simone Collins: don't mind the wait times, honestly. But anyway, I'm gonna look for a missing plug and then get the kids. And make your dinner. And I love you so much.

Malcolm Collins: You are an amazing wife. I am so excited for dinner. Oh, and you is about 20% more cheese than you did last time.

Simone Collins: I'll happily do that

Malcolm Collins: because the cheese is amazing.

And we've got some fresh chives. Chop up some chives and put them. Yes. I forgot

Simone Collins: to do that last night. It was, it was a little chaotic downstairs.

Malcolm Collins: Another thing I'd put on as an extra ingredient is poppy seeds.

Simone Collins: You mean sesame seeds?

Malcolm Collins: Sesame seeds, yeah.

Simone Collins: Words.

Malcolm Collins: Shut up.

Simone Collins: I love you own words. I love when you use pronouncing.

I don't

Malcolm Collins: love you. I actually think you're a disgusting monster and Well, that's

Simone Collins: accurate. That's, that's just the truth on,

Malcolm Collins: on the video we did today. You, you loved it so much. I've gotta do this on multiple videos. It's so good. The Torsten being like,

Simone Collins: I just tear the beat and I have today. I can't stop dancing the beach in my body.

Oh God, Stan.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. You must have heard that somewhere is all I can think.

Simone Collins: I don't know man. The kid has, he loves to dance. He loves EDM. I don't know where that came from. He loves Electros winging too though. And Glitch hop. I

Malcolm Collins: just hear the beat. It's taken off from my body. It's great.

Simone Collins: I should play more music for him.

Malcolm Collins: By the way,

Simone Collins: we weren't playing music. No. It was just in his head. Nico Nicole on, he, he's, he's the originator of Do, do, do in our House. Like he's always like, got a tune in his head and he, he makes little sound effects for everything he does. Even chew. He

Malcolm Collins: does hitting.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. We know when he's hitting someone e, even if he's in another room, 'cause he goes, oh, oh, he's this like little cartoon voice.

He's like a little cartoon human. None of our other kids are cartoon humans, but he definitely a hundred percent.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, love you to

Simone Collins: I love you too. Thanks for giving birth to a cartoon. You're the one who gave birth to him, you nutter. Oh, I mean, he's both of us. You know what I mean? He hatched out of the Malmo egg.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, by the way, are you ready for revolution in the United States?

Simone Collins: Everyone says we're already in a civil war. I. We are killing each other. Be fair. The Lamees

Malcolm Collins: war ever

Simone Collins: there. Well, there are flags. I was gonna say, well, there are no flags, right? But no, there are flags. There are leaders, there are battalions.

Maybe they're right. Well, I saw

Malcolm Collins: another video of somebody who tore down a Trump flag. No, this school

Simone Collins: bus is,

Malcolm Collins: I gotta

Simone Collins: go. Bye bye. Ah.

Why can't you stop dancing? I, I just hear a beat and my body is hearing the beats. Wait, no, I can't stop dancing. You can't stop dancing 'cause my, because I, because my body can't still hear the beats, but there's no music playing. My friend there is, I'm pretending that there's. Oh, it's like in your head.

Yeah. Um, so I can't stop dancing. But you're a really good dancer. Why? What does the music sound like? It sounds like, oh, yeah, I, I'm dancing. I'm dancing to the beat. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. I'm dancing to the beat. I'm dancing. I'm dancing. I'm dancing to the beat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that the song outside? There's zombie.

Whoa, whoa. I'm gonna go,

oh, did you dance to so much you passed out? I'll tell you that somehow. Like the beat, like the pants. Okay. I lost all my hands was sanding in my hand. There's, then I, then I just dropped the dancing. Oh, the beat broke in your head. Yes. I just always, I just always, I just.

In this episode of Based Camp, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into the political and cultural controversies surrounding JD Vance, left-wing and right-wing extremism, and the recent events that have the media and political world buzzing. They analyze the New York Times coverage, discuss the rise of armed activist groups, and break down the statistics and narratives around violence, identity, and free speech in America. Expect a thought-provoking conversation with data, personal insights, and a critical look at the narratives shaping our society.

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today.

Today I woke up and I checked my WhatsApp and what did I see? But my, grad school class worrying about a New York Times piece that we're gonna go over. Ooh. Because the New York Times, they're freaking out. ' cause JD Vance has come out and a number of top Trump aide have come out and are like, we need to begin to crack down through law enforcement on far left terrorist organizations.

Simone Collins: Oh man, they, they kicked me out. Soon they kicked

Malcolm Collins: you out. Yeah, because they, they found out that we were in the New York Times and, and said some, I don't know, whatever thing. But anyway, they, they're very spicy. They yell at me occasionally in this thread. Crazy. But the left is like actually quaking in their boots right now because what we are seeing is finally, and I don't know why the administration did do this earlier they are using the Charlie Kirk assassination as a cover for saying we actually need to deal with left wing terrorism and left wing people are like, oh, no.[00:01:00]

We defined what was thought crimes before they get to define it. Now, this is no good. And, and when your enemy is afraid you know, that's when you know you're in the right direction.

Speaker 3: What's it thinking, Colonel?

Speaker 4: It's afraid. It's afraid!

Malcolm Collins: I knew you were gonna

Simone Collins: do that. Of course you were. Of course.

Yes. Every damn time.

Malcolm Collins: But I wanna go over a few things with this. I wanna go over what they're saying because I think taking time to understand your enemy you know, you can only you can only beat the bug if you can understand the bug, right?

Speaker 8: Will thE Brain Bug reveal? Federal scientists are working around the clock to probe its secrets. Once we understand the bug, we will defeat it.

Malcolm Collins: Well, that's also

Simone Collins: why the bugs slurped out humans', brains.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, no, [00:02:00] they're the, this is why they the, the, the, the bug men are doing a 20, what was it, like, a $50 million study to try to figure out what young men think. And everybody remembers this because it went viral and we never did a piece on it. But I should probably see what, what, what results they came to from all that money they spent on how to reach young men.

I agree with the,

Speaker 2: All right, so let me go through some of our positions and you stop me where you feel uncomfortable. A higher minimum wage healthcare reform.

The ball kicking machine, right? Social safety nets. Wait, could you repeat that last one? Sure. Social safety nets before that. Hmm. Oh, the ball kicking machine. I don't like the ball kicking machine. Not a fan either. Yeah. I don't like that at all. Oh, the machine we want in your house to kick your balls all the time.

Yes.

Speaker: No, that can't be [00:03:00] it.

Speaker 2: Okay, so what does our $20 million study show?

Speaker: The machine needs more boats.

Malcolm Collins: , that that's about what the people came to. But they, they try it on us too, right? Like it's important to, to understand what's going on, but I also want to take time to explore what types of groups they're talking about here, because the left pretends like.

There's no radical leftist attack groups out there right now, even though, you know, we just had literally the the trans murder cult with Z Zans that we covered in a recent episode. We had the, the mass shooting. Recently we had the at a school we had the Charlie Kirk deaths, which, if you watched our previous episode, we point out that seems like half a dozen people in the Utah trans community were aware that this was gonna happen

By the way, another I told you so here, so in the first video on the Charlie Kirk assassination, I said, I bet the assassin hasties to the trans community. Everyone is like, when the guy was first caught, they were like, [00:04:00] Malcolm, you see, you got ahead on your skis on this one. You were totally wrong.

And then it turns out it's your, or. Recent episode on this that, you know, half a dozen members of the trans community and no one else was aware of the day the assassination was going to take place, and that the guy who did the assassination was dating a trans person. And then in that video I made the second controversial claim that while I was right in my first claim, due to all the people who were aware that this was going to happen beforehand.

I was going to take the position that I do not think the person's girlfriend slash boyfriend because they were dating before they started transitioning. So that's not like an offensive thing to say that they didn't know about this and were not involved in this. And then this claim got me a bunch of, he.

You know, heat in that video. 'cause people are like, oh, Malcolm, you're being naive, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, since then, the text that the person had with their so have been released and, well, obviously it's not conclusive. This could have been faked. These texts do [00:05:00] not come off as, to, to me, they come off , as pretty firm confirmation that the so did not know this was going to happen.

So to just go over them Robinson, drop what you're doing. Look under my keyboard. And then the note that he had under his keyboard read. I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk, and I'm going to take it. And then the roommate responded, what? With a bunch of question marks. You're joking, right?

A bunch of question marks. And then Robinson says, I am still okay my love, but I am stuck in Orum for a little while longer. Shouldn't be long until I can come home, but I gotta grab my rifle. To be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry to involve you. Partner, you weren't the one who did it.

Right. Bunch of question marks Robinson. I am. I'm sorry. Partner. I thought they caught the person. Robinson. No. They grabbed some crazy old dude that interrogated someone in a similar closing. I had [00:06:00] planned to grab my rifle from the drop point shortly after, but most of that site of town got locked down.

It's quiet almost enough to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering partner. Why? Robinson, why did I do it? SO. Yeah. Robinson, I had enough of his hatred. Some of the hate can be negotiated out. If I am able to grab my rifle and seen, I will have left no evidence going to attempt to retrieve it again.

Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't seen anything about them finding it. So how long have you been planning this? Robinson, and this is the one thing that makes me doubt this conversation 'cause it's obvious from the number of people who knew about it and when they cited it, that he had been planning this for two months.

But he plans a bit over a week. I believe I can get close to it. But there was a squad card parked by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don't want to chance it. My read here is that he's just [00:07:00] lying, I guess, about how long he had been planning it. Or he is misremembering because he didn't really care that much, like he might have.

Fantasized about it for longer and talked to people, and that's how they knew about the date and then only seriously started planning it for a couple weeks. But anyway Robinson, I'm wishing I had circled back and grabbed it as soon as I got in my vehicle. I'm worried what my old man would do if I brought it back to grandpa's rifle.

I don't know if I had a serial number, but it wouldn't trace to me. I worry about prints. I had to leave it in a bush where I changed outfits. I didn't have the ability or time to bring it. Whiz. I might have to abandon it and hope they don't find the prints. How the F would I explain losing it to my old man?

The only thing I left. Was the rifle wrapped in a towel? Remember how I was engraving bullets? The effing messages are mostly a big meme. If I see notices, bulge, ooo on Fox News, I might have a [00:08:00] stroke. Alright, I'm going to have to leave it. That really effing sucks. Judging from today, I'd say grandpa's gun goes just fine.

I don't know. I think that with a 2K scope, and then Robinson. My dad wants photos of the rifle. He says Grandpa wants to know who, who was, has what. The feds released a photo of the rifle and it's very unique. He's calling me right now and not answering Robinson. Since Trump got into office, my dad has been pretty diehard.

MAGA Robinson. I'm gonna turn myself in willingly. One of the neighbors here is the Deputy Shella. Sheriff Robinson, you are all, I worry about my love. Robinson. I'm much more worried about you Robinson. Don't talk to the media. Please don't take any interviews or make any comments. If any police ask you questions, ask for a lawyer and stay silent.

Now note, all of these were happening in real time as he was being caught, so this doesn't seem like something he set up beforehand. If he'd set it up beforehand, I think the him being caught and the [00:09:00] sloppiness on that front wouldn't be included. In this whole thing meant to exonerate his partner.

Malcolm Collins: and you're beginning to get this and, no, I wanna point out, you're referring to

Simone Collins: the mass shooting at the Catholic church, not the Colorado mass shooting, which took place, like at Yeah, but he didn't

Malcolm Collins: shoot anyone.

He, he failed.

Simone Collins: Well, he didn't kill anyone. He did critically injure two girls. Oh, okay. And then killed himself. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But he wasn't trained. The Colorado

Simone Collins: shooter, just to be clear, the Colorado shooter school shooter was not trans, was right wing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

So I decided to check on this because I had remembered vaguely from my research into the politics of this particular shooter, , they're like, oh, he was on Nazi sites or extremist right wing sites and on a bunch of sites glorifying, , school attacks and. I was like, okay, I guess. But I've seen people say this for individuals who were not right wing in the past, so I should look into it.

, And I just looked into it again and it appears that he was more of a generic edge Lord, and people are categorizing edge Lord sites as extremist right [00:10:00] wing sites, as opposed to just being like somebody who is obsessed with school gun things is also going to be obsessed with. You know, sometimes like just generic gore things, which was one of the things he was into.

And, , other things that are going to shock people like Nazi forms.

I will say that this is particularly rich, given that the left is now trying to rebrand a number of West Wing terrorists, , like the bombing of the Pennsylvania Governor's Mansion and, , the Charlie Cook assassination as not actually left wing, but this new thing called nihilistic violent extremists, , where they're just like, well, they're generic nihilists.

And that's why they're doing this stuff. And I don't think this is, this is very obviously not true and it's used to, you know, break from responsibility. , But I do think that you do sometimes get people who just are pure edge lords and like edge lording and especially young men, especially young white men.

. [00:11:00] But I don't think that, that's what we're seeing in these, these left wing cases where you do see very strong ties to, , you know, actual left wing arguments that they are making. You know, as you saw in the text to his. When he was looking for his internal logic for why he killed Charlie Kirk, , he didn't say, oh, I'm just tired, was the world and everything like that. He believed that Charlie Kirk was hateful because he had been leading and listening to left wing sources that had painted him that way.

By the way, if you're wondering why nihilistic people do not do mass shootings, , a nihilism is generally associated with a lack of agency and a disinterest in acting upon the world. So if you wanted to go out, you would just go out yourself. , Whereas Edge Lording is related to trying to maximize the shock value you can get from the world, , which means that if you are going to go out, you are going to go out.

Attacking other people. , And this is why from the generic edge, Lord, you can get [00:12:00] mass violent behavior. But from nihilists it is vanishingly uncommon.

Simone Collins: And the, however, the Catholic church shooter who did kill children was trans.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Anyway, so the point here being is I, I wanna put out, I don't even know these people are trans. Like I'm, there's like this new opt-in gender identity, so I'm not even gonna lay this at the feet of the trans community. I'm gonna be like. There's a certain political class on the left that when you reach a level of extremism, you just transition because there's no other way to interact in these spaces without being a minority of some sort.

So if you're like a white man or woman, you're sort of forced, oh,

Simone Collins: kind of how Fundee Fridays they, they call themselves queer, but we have no idea what they're like divergent. They're

Malcolm Collins: very clearly married to a biologic, like a person who was born, a male, and a person who was born a female. That's who they're married to, but they call themselves queer all the time and talk about how they're oppressed for being queer all the time.

And it's like, come on man. That's, that's still in ballet right there. But I wanna go over like what these organizations are doing right now. So you can see [00:13:00] why JD Vance may want to be fighting against this. So, a group called and this was brought to my attention by somebody on our Discord, a, a group called Arm Queers.

Salt Lake City SLC is a socialist lgbtq plus organization focused on arming and training queer and trans people for quote unquote community self-defense against capitalism. Fascism and state violence, keep in mind that to them, fascism is being a Republican and wearing a red hat, right? Like they, they regularly say this type of stuff.

So even when they say fighting against, they mean against everyday like 50% of the American population. They collaborated with the Elm Fork branch of the John Brown Club to do like education programs with each other. This was the branch that had a coordinated attack on an ICE detention detention center.

Where automatic guns were fired at the detention center and a few guards were, were shot. Did not die, but yeah, you might not have heard about this. And recently they've been rabidly trying to [00:14:00] clean their social media of these shared programs that they did, but there's evidence of them that was dug up by

data Republican small R is what it's called at Data Republican. Now who. Who are these, these, these groups. Another thing that people pointed out about this group that I find particularly interesting that organized this armed attack and raid on an ice detention center, which we'll get into in a second.

Mia Ry, the, the founder and leader of armed Queers, SLC has , the seven for 17 award, which was annually recognized for achieving the UN's goals.

As it says, well, come on. We all

Simone Collins: know what the UN's goals are. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Working on the UN's objective now. No, this wasn't, this checks out. Okay.

Simone Collins: Malcolm? No. Nothing. Nothing inaccurate was awarded nothing

Malcolm Collins: inaccurate. Was that? No this was not for the organization that was arming people as has sort of been portrayed.

It was for a different organization that they won, but they run both of these organizations.

Speaker 3: Huh?

Malcolm Collins: So, what does this organization fight for? I found this particularly [00:15:00] telling the armed queers leaders made it clear that they've been inspired by the Cuban Revolutionary Revolution while over there because they went on a trip to Cuba and they're like, now we need to do what the Cuban revolutionaries did.

You know, go against like the voting public of the country in the United States right now. 'cause we are a. It's the least nominally a democracy. And that they're looking to bring the revolution back to America. They, the armed queers claim to abide by six principles. An archive of the group's membership application describes the first principle is the quote, armed and military protection of queer and trans communities.

The group also aims to achieve, quote, the end of capitalist oppression and exploitation in quote, the quote, creation of a socialist society. End quote. Trans liberation and the quote, abolition of prisons and police quote, and they think that this is what it is worth using guns and to do this is what they are training to do.

I love how they used to be all scared of like the, the right wing militia training in the woods or something. And [00:16:00] now you've got like literal. Money being funneled into these trans militia groups that are, that are in many cases being abed by US government institutions. Right? And, and, and this is why it makes sense for Trump to go out there.

And this very group was doing their training. I think it was in like 10 miles of where Charlie Kirk was shot. Now they were not involved in this. They were. Potentially like, like through the, the connection and the group ties with the group that did the raid on ice which was a very similar group in a different location, but not with a Charlie Cook shooting.

So what, what other things are they writing about, quote, when they came back from Cuba, they said, victory is ours in revolution, will come in quote. And quote, what did we bring back? The main thing we brought back was a discipline from the lifestyle of the camp Connor said, and also I brought back a real feeling of inspiration and a feeling that we have a world to win, and a feeling that victories ours and revolution will come.

I think that's the real thing that we're bringing back, is a will to affect change and a will to [00:17:00] try to support the people of Cuba and the revolution around the world. Wow. So, so keep in mind this is like their mindset. They see, they say, oh, we're fighting to protect our community from fascists, where fascists is defined as people who vote for Trump and as they regularly say, and like your mainstream conservative and capitalism, which is literally our current.

Economic system in most of the world. So Rema said the trip to Cuba was important for quote, breaking the barrier of information that the US is trying to hide from us about just how successful the revolution is and just how steadfast and passionate the Cuban people are in protecting the revolution in quote, this is, by the way, Cuba is not an awesome place to live, especially right now. It's a lot of starvation and stuff like that. And if you look at the lived experiences of people who are not being paid by the Cuban government, IE Cuban refugees they do not paint a pretty picture. Imagine going to like a North Korea and taking what all of the tour [00:18:00] guys were telling you at face value.

That is basically what they did. But with Cuba and being like, oh, those North Korean refugees, their lived experience doesn't matter because their in league was the capitalists. They, they didn't run through mine fields to get out, you know? But anyway, thoughts before I go further, Simone?

Simone Collins: No, please tell me more.

I mean, so I, I, I also wanna make sure, because I'm most curious about. The moral arguments of protecting free speech. And I, I feel so conflicted around, I, I, I want there to be open discourse. Also, I think it's really important that we have open discourse. 'cause you kind of wanna know when people have these things that are talking about these things, like if this goes underground more or offline, more.

People are gonna be less aware of, of radicalization as a problem and less able to detect it. And so I do feel really conflicted about efforts to combat this or how they're executed. And I'm [00:19:00] curious to get your thoughts on how, I mean, one, the, this, this is proposed to be dealt with, but also how you would deal with it.

Malcolm Collins: We will get to that.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: What I can say is I definitely wouldn't spend the government dollars on training an organization that plans to kill half of Americans. You know, they believe they have a moral license to kill. 50, more than 50% of the American population. Here's another quote from them. Quote, we are sharing this brigade, not just other American brigade does, but brisas from around the world, from South Africa, from Ghana, from Latin American countries, from Austria and, and from Germany.

Remi said, and essentially this will was an intentional brigade where they wanted baristas, was a revolutionary orientation. It was revolutionary politics to come and learn about the human revolution and essentially have to fight against the blockade that our country, as American representatives on this trip was fully responsible for.

So basically fight against the US government. Okay. Now I wanted to learn more about this ice raid because I hadn't heard of this, which again, shows just how much [00:20:00] stuff goes under the radar.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Like the, the school shooting where nobody died, that happened on the same day of Charlie Kirk that you were talking about.

That was like a Republican extremist guy. Yeah. Actually I should look into that because I always say that they're Republican extremists and then you read their manifesto and they often aren't. Like I, when I was doing stuff, I said the Christchurch Mosque shooter was a white nationalist, which. He was an antinatalists.

He, he said he was killing Muslims simply because Muslims had more kids. This is what he wrote in his manifesto. Yeah. Not because he was a great replacement series. I mean, I see how if you're a reporter brain you would go there, but this is, you know what, anyway on July 4th, 2025, around 11:00 PM a group of about a dozen assailants dressed in black military style clothing, ambush the.

Prairie Land Detention Center, an ice contracted facility in Alvarado, Texas. They set off fireworks at the destruction vandalized vehicles and open fire with AR style rifles. Oh my gosh. They fired 20 to 30 rounds at unarmed correctional officers outside the facility and shot a responding Alvaro Police officer injuring him in the neck.

He, he survived though. So [00:21:00] one, thank God, the, these were like recently converted young MAGA people, like the Charlie Kirk shooter. But they were going out there with the intention of killing unarmed individuals who were working at this facility and unarmed police officer, oh my God, just reporting to violence.

They, they really do, when they say they want a world without police or prisons, they mean we want to kill policing. In in anyone who works in, in, you know, a big government services. Around 17 people were arrested and charged with federal and state crimes, including the attempted murder of federal officers, terrorism, firearms, offenses, and, and the assault.

So, 17 individuals were involved in this raid, the FBI described it as they targeted ambush on immigration enforcement. In January, 2023, armed queers, SLC announced and co-hosted a workshop titled, protecting People's Movements, the Rise in Community Defense with this other group the Perpetrators on July 4th, 2025, shooting at per detention center.

We're not random outsiders. So I, I asked in AI because I was like, were these like random people who were just like signed up or were they like [00:22:00] core movements operation?

Speaker 3: Right.

Malcolm Collins: Core active members of Elm Fork, gb, I mean JBGC at the time of their movement of the 17 arrested, charged with crimes like attempted murder, terrorism, and assault, most had documented ties to the group, including leadership roles.

In protests and training Benjamin Hana Hill or Benjamin Song, a former US Marine Reservist song was a prominent member who led armed counter protests for Elm Fork, including at drag shows and abortion rights events. He was sued in 2023 as a group member for alleged. Threats during a protest reportedly trained others.

In far left tactics. Song described as leading the ambush group of about 10 to 12 assassins or, or assailants. Other suspects, several others, including John Philip Thomas and Leite Reed Sharp charged his accessories, had belonged to Elm Fork. JBC reports indicate almost. All of the dozen core attackers had ties whiz or long histories wiz protests, both organized by the group and at BLM [00:23:00] events.

They were involved in blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now I also thought it was funny to just go into a bit more of how this armed queer group thinks, because I think they're board, what, what are these people who are training to kill other Americans in quote unquote their defense, which they think.

Y you know, anything that involves taking down half of Americans is included in their defense. Quote, you wouldn't find a single barista that did not support Palestine everywhere you would see support for Palestine, and that goes for the CU Cuban country as a whole.

So I thought that, first of all, very interesting here. The support of Palestine. I, I've never really got, like, I really wanna understand these people. Do they not think that people of Palestine don't wanna kill them? Like, do they like not, I, I think that

Simone Collins: I, Malcolm I really don't think they're thinking about the people of Palestine.

I mean, aside from like a very sort of abstract, like honestly the, the vibe I'm getting is the noble, savage vibe. I, I don't know what else to say.

Malcolm Collins: They think [00:24:00] that they can, like civilize them or something, which is what we would historically call cultural genocide. It's, they want to erase all of their cultural norms which is not a, a, a great thing to do generally speaking, but I hear you.

But here is just,

Simone Collins: yeah, it just feels really, the way that they talk about them feels really dehumanizing and infantalizing. I know that some, some people who are activists actually do get to know real people in Palestine on the ground, and. I'm not referring to them, but when I hear about general people, they're not really talking about stuff happening there.

That's real. I don't know. I don't know what to say.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: go on. Right.

Malcolm Collins: So. Then I had this thought to myself where I'm like, well, you know, anti-trans violence is real, right? Like, should they not be arming themselves to protect the trans community from violent crimes? Right. I was like, this is like a, a real potential thing.

And then I had unfortunately, a very naughty [00:25:00] follow up thought, which is, wait a second, but is it. I should probably just run the numbers to check. All right, so there's a lot of groups that check how many trans and non-binary people are killed violently every year. So I go to an ai, I'll sort of walk you through my revelation on this because it gets progressively worse as it gets deeper.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. And I was

Malcolm Collins: like, okay, calculate the rates that the orgs are saying number of trans people died versus the gen pop of violent murders. Okay. And this is trans and non-binary people. So, you know, a, a wide net hero, right. To calculate the rates, I'll use the midpoint of 31. Transgender and gender expansive people killed in the US for 2024 due to fatal violence based on the 30 to 32 range from advocacy tracking for the transgender population, you have around 1.6% of the US transgender and non-binary, the, the US population.

So that's approximately 340.1 million people in 2024 which equates to 5.44 million transgender individuals. [00:26:00] Now the transgender homicide rate that would mean that the transgender homicide rate is around 0.57 per hundred thousand trans individuals. The average American homicide rate is five.

What Wait individuals. That means the transgender community and non-binary community has a homicide rate that is 11.4% the average American.

Simone Collins: That is wild.

Malcolm Collins: Hold on. I was like, okay, this can't be right. I must be under, under doing the numbers here. Right? Like right. Because I mean,

Simone Collins: people who are trans end up going into sex work.

They have a lot of mental issues. Like I would expect them. I, I mean even, even I, and you too, I imagine would expect a higher.

Malcolm Collins: I expected to hire. So then I decided to go, you know what? I'm gonna go through every major trans reporting organization. So these are these organizations that are reporting this.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So we got the human rights campaign, the HRC.

Speaker 3: [00:27:00] Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: They had a reported death of 32 in 2024. So that would mean that the trans homicide rate was 0.59, which was the number we got above. And so, about 8.5 x. Lower than the human rights campaign we get for 2023, maybe 2024 was a fluke.

They have 36. That point submit 0.66. So 13.2% of the gen pop which is about 7.6 x lower. Okay. Then we have. Every town for gun safety, they had 33. That puts 'em at 0.61 12.2% of the gen pop, 8.2 x lower. Then you have Statistica, which had 29 0 0.53. This is for, for 2024 which put them at 10.6% of the gen pop are about 9.4 x lower.

So you have about 10 times the rate of being killed if you're not trans violently. But then it gets worse. It gets so much worse because I started to read the fine print in these statistics as they were being reported.

Simone Collins: Okay?

Malcolm Collins: The big one that jumped out at me was across [00:28:00] reports. Black trans women comprise around 50% of US victims, okay?

Simone Collins: Among trans homicide victims,

Malcolm Collins: around trans people who are killed violently. This isn't just homicide. This is killed in crimes. This is killed in bad drug traits. Okay? So if you're

Simone Collins: trans

Malcolm Collins: homicide.

Simone Collins: The, the, the black male to female trans group is getting most

Malcolm Collins: heat around the ones who are killed violently.

Okay. Now, do you understand why that's a big problem for these numbers?

Simone Collins: No, I don't. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So off the top of your head, how, how big do you think is the black trans woman portion of the entire trans community?

Simone Collins: Pretty freaking small.

Malcolm Collins: 4.3%. Oh, wow. Oh, oh. So what does that mean if you are not a trans black woman?

Oh, your homicide rate is in the trans community. Oh, dear. Astoundingly low. You [00:29:00] might as well be wearing an invincibility shield wherever you go. You might be the most privileged group in the entire United States in regarding violence. Gosh, we will get into those numbers in just a second. What, but I wanna go over some other uncomfortable questions that I immediately had here.

I was like, oh, well how, how much is it just because, you know, all of these trans people who have the guns were like, we wanna fight BLM and everything like that. How much of trans violence is just. Black people you know, they're much more conservative cultural group. 78.6% of the trans black women who were killed, were killed by black people which is actually lower than gen pop.

If you're a black person and you're gonna be violently murdered, there is a 90% chance that a black person will do it to you. So, yeah, not awesome. None of this looks good. None, none of this looks good. Okay, so I had it recalculate some of the numbers here. If you do the human rights campaign number, you're now looking at a number that is 15.6 x lower than the gen pop.

If you, if you do the statistical number, you're now looking at a number [00:30:00] that is 19.2 x lower than the gen pop.

Simone Collins: Good lord, no.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that was not, I, I, I, some, I love it when I run into like statistics and I'm just like, I did not expect that at all. But it, I guess it makes sense when you consider that even though they earn less, they are.

In very sort of privileged community environments and that that can help protect them from violence. They're much more likely to live in group houses. They're much more likely to be constantly surrounded by other individuals which may put them in a, a safer position than your average American.

That, that can be my only guess.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I am trying to work out in my head what is so protective about this be a

Malcolm Collins: whole other episode. Why, why are they so, why is the, the trends,

Simone Collins: invincibility shield explained?

Malcolm Collins: But now we're gonna go into a New York Times piece.

Speaker 3: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: That was titled Some of the Highest Ranking Officials in the Federal Government used [00:31:00] Charlie Kirk's podcast, guests hosted by Vice President JD Vance, to lay out their plans.

Okay. And to just jump right into this. White House officials, senior advisor Steven Miller, described the left as a vast domestic Oh, oh. This isn't from the piece, this is from just general stuff. The White House is saying before we get to the piece.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Senior Advisor Steven Miller, described the left as a quote, vast domestic terror movement.

In quote, it emphasized the need to combat, quote, the Leftwing extremism and terrorism that we're seeing within our country today. End quote. The White House has promised to broad a crackdown on unquote terrorist leftwing organizations. And I'll note here, I, I do not like him saying the entire left is a vast terrorist organization because I think that that is.

Exactly mirroring the language that the left is using. Totally. Fortunately, if you look at the statistics and you're like, see the right does this as well. The number of right wingers who are willing to say that somebody should be killed because of their political beliefs is dramatically lower than the number of left wingers.

We went over this [00:32:00] in a previous episode, but the number of left-wingers who think that you, you know, you have a right to assassinate the president was over 50%. Hmm. And there was a really interesting post that looked at this. After assassinations on both sides. So you can see how after the, the Nancy Pelosi thing and after the Charlie Kirk thing, so you could see how it shifts based on whether or not you're thinking, like Oke said, is your side

god. JD Vance said that there's a quote unquote vast domestic terrorist network, which there is. I mean, we just documented it right here. So to continue with what the New York Times is saying here

oh, by the way, any thoughts that you have before I go further,

Simone Collins: I'm, I'm still reeling from the trans homicide data, so I, I, I'm, I'm stunned here. I wanna see what the US government's gonna do.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And if you're like, well, the 1.6 number is too high. Even if the number was only half the 1.6 number, which is below almost any estimate of trans and non-binary individual, I've seen their rates would still be dramatically [00:33:00] lower.

Especially if you don't include the, the black women. So you can't even say like, I was fudging the numbers with the 1.6 number.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So, or you can't say I was choosing Republican sources 'cause these are trans organizations that are cataloging these.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Skipping in a bit into the article to get past the boring stuff, the White House and President Trump's allies suggest that he was part of a coordinated movement that was fermenting violence against conservatives.

See our last episode on how did so many trans people know that the Shirley Kirk was gonna be killed on the 10th? Because he was, it's very clear, a lot of people seem to be aware of this beforehand. There were groups that he referenced on his bullet casing saying before he was caught, Hey guys, make sure you're using encrypted stuff.

Yes, I'm talking about that. You know what I'm talking about.

So clearly there is, and, and now the FBI is actually going after these groups. It'd be cool if we see a, a crackdown on this.

Simone Collins: I'm really curious to see what's gonna happen. I'm. 48% confident that nothing will happen, but we'll see

Malcolm Collins: without Pres pre.

And then they [00:34:00] note here, when they talk about this vast network, they say, without presenting evidence that such a network existed, America has seen a wave of violence across the political spectrum targeting Democrats and Republicans. And here I point out. Look at our podcast episode from yesterday. We bring receipts.

This is a real thing that is happening and we even just in this podcast discussed a group that is part of a network training individuals in the use of guns to fight against capitalism around the United States. That is doing things like raids on ISIS centers, where they are shooting like 30, 40 rounds of, of automatic weapons.

Simone Collins: Ice, not isis.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, ice,

Simone Collins: ice. Big difference.

Malcolm Collins: I'm thinking, I'm thinking they're ISIS there. That's, that's who their friends are. They need to go, go join isis. Right? To see how well that goes. On Monday, two senior administration officials who spoke anonymously to describe the internal planning said that cabinet secretaries and federal department heads were working to identify organizations that funded or supported violence against conservatives.

The goal they said was to [00:35:00] categorize left wing activity that led to violence's domestic terrorism. Note here, I wanna be like, this is the most reasonable thing possible. They're not saying left-wing activity more broadly. They're saying left-wing activity that led to acts of violence, which we know is a thing.

So let's crack down on it. Why, why are you protected from this? And we are not like you do this to right wingers every single administration, I mean. You would literally do it to like mainstream. You would like get Google to like demonetize, like Sargon, who's like pretty milk toast in his views. It's not like extremist Republicans you're doing this to.

It is UK centrist. Which is, which is, very not that strong of a Republican juice. But the, the dictatorial level, which they implemented this, and then it's like, how can he slap when, when our side is like, Hey, we should, you know, after one of our advocates gets killed. No, not an active politician.

Note, [00:36:00] not like out there doing anything that's actually hurting people, just having debates with people in college campuses and people will lie about the things he said to try to make him look racist or xenophobic. Really the only thing he was was anti-gay for religious reasons and anti-trans for religious reasons.

Which I mean, he's allowed to have his religion. Like what the, that's just bigotry to say he's not allowed to have his religion. And every other quote that you'll find from him, I don't have time to go through and debunk them all. Just go to an AI if you think you have heard a quote that makes him look really bad and ask what the context was.

Because every time you'll learn that either it's just a complete fabrication or the context completely explains it. Yeah, that's a wild

Simone Collins: thing.

Malcolm Collins: JD Vance talked about the, in the Nation or something, this main publication. They post this horrible thing about how he's so racist and he says that black women just don't have.

The IQ to hold positions of power. And then if you go to the actual quote, what he said was because of DEI programs people who do not have the intellectual capacity for certain roles are being put in those roles. He did not at all say black women don't have the capacity [00:37:00] for these roles. He's saying, and everybody knows this, it's the very point of DEI programs is to put less qualified people into positions.

Of more authority than they're able to achieve if they were solely judged on their merit with the understanding that their merit is being artificially, like negatively impacted based on their environment, even though their entire life they have had a DEI advantage, right? So you don't, you know, but the point here being you, you, you go to his stuff because somebody was like, he is not mainstream boomer conservative.

If you think that it's because you have been manipulated into what his actual views were. His actual views are, are not that extreme. But anyway an escalation that critics say could lay the ground words for crushing anti-conservative descent More broadly, some of the highest ranking officials of the federal government used Mr.

Kirk's podcast, the Charlie Kirk Show to lay out their plans from his official office at the White House Vice President JD Vance served as a guest host. Of the podcast inviting senior members of the administration, including Steven Miller, the president's top policy advisor, to [00:38:00] praise Mr. Kirk, while also detailing their plans to crack down on what they called leftist non-governmental organizations.

The show was broadcast on the television screens in the White House Briefing room and in several West Wing offices. In their comments, Mr. Vance and Mr. Miller spoke in vague and menacing terms about the far left groups that they said facilitated violence. What I love here is they, they, they're, they're like.

People will talk about the right being fascist all the time, right? At least they use vague, but menacing terms, right? Miller said that a formal effort would be coming with federal agencies, rooting out what he referred to as a domestic terror movement, which definitely exists. We, we, we've detailed it today and, and, and yesterday and they would be doing it in Kirk's name.

Miller says, with God is my witness. We are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security, and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, eliminate, and destroy this network and make America safe again for the American people. That's so vague.

Simone Collins: What does that mean?

Malcolm Collins: What does it mean we're [00:39:00] going to like I was shocked when I heard, because on yesterday's episode we pointed out this like. Group of half a dozen trans people that said Charlie Kirk was going to be shoot shot on the tents in, in very documented posts and songs and stuff like that. No, I will say here, one of them was a cisgendered male in the group.

Only one of them was they documented cisgender male. And the one documented cisgender male used to go by they them pronouns. So, they were definitely in the community. But the point here being is and again, I'm saying. Not all trans people, right? Like there's a variety of trans expressions, but we need to be aware that there is like the Zian trans murder cults out there now.

And we do need to, and as I pointed out, the Zans have now have a higher kill count than the Manson family. Like if you're comparing it with like what you think historically. Oh, the reason I think it's really important to note that char Charlie Kirk was just an activist. Like he was not a, politician is because if you're talking about just activists, like [00:40:00] almost nobody shoots these people. And the last time this happened was MLK that, that I'm aware of which is like really severe when you're getting to, you know, free speech activists being killed by people who don't want, you know, free speech happening in this country.

Now to continue here. I'm gonna skip a little bit of, of this because you, you get the idea. One of the things I thought was pretty interesting is how they wanna go about this. Yeah. I wanna hear the specifics. Yeah. Well, the core thing that they appeared to want to do is more doxing, but anyway, I was surprised that they were gonna do is basically finding these individuals and doxing them and having them face legal repercussions.

Okay. And I think more broadly, using government resources to docs individuals, which are. Pushing for violence. And note here, like when the Trump administration is talking about pushing for violence, like the, the, or the examples they're giving are people who are actually pushing for violence. Now obviously the, the riskier is the left takes this, and then the left redefines violence is anything that makes them [00:41:00] uncomfortable.

And you have pointed out that this is a risk, right? But the problem is, is you're like, what if the left takes these systems and then uses them with their own definitions? And it's like the left is already doing that. Every time they come into power they demonetize, right? Wingers, they get them fired from their jobs, from milk toast, taste.

Say, we've seen this over we for COVID, right? Saying, Hey. You know, the, the CEO, the person who's sitting next in line to be CEO of Levi being like, Hey this closing down of schools in minority neighborhoods is disproportionately hurting minority students. We shouldn't be doing this. Yeah. And she had to resign, right?

Like destroying people's lives for, for what our you know, in reflection, very accurate takes that even support what left-wing people say is their agenda.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Do you have thoughts? Oh, I, I like this one as well because we were talking about sort of like transa, this, this faction here.

Speaker 3: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: In responding to Fox News report [00:42:00] to Catherine, a Abaza senior video producer for Media Watchdog Media Matters tweeted the new Rightwing Paranoid Delusion just dropped.

But it's like a thing that we're seeing. I don't understand. It's not a delusion, right? Like remember when they pretended, didn't they pretend that Antifa wasn't real for a while? Is this just me? Yeah, they did pretend that for a while. I think you're right. They called Antifa a conspiracy theory and now they're like, not even, you know?

But

Simone Collins: yeah, someone just DMed us on X and they were like, I wish people would talk more about trans A, because I was punched in the face by one at a protest. 'cause I had a school sign that said. Something like, keep the cult out of my school.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, well this happens constantly. Riley Gaines was assaulted by one.

Yeah, but it's like,

Simone Collins: the problem is I'd love to talk more about it, but I don't know where to get the documentation because again, no one, oh, I listed the

Malcolm Collins: documentation for this episode. I was gonna do an episode on trans tifa. Yeah. The reason we don't have the documentation is it's too decentralized.

This thing is just

Simone Collins: people reporting on the ground about what's happening then, because [00:43:00] the mainstream media isn't covering this in any systematic way.

Malcolm Collins: And so, so Trans Tifa is just Antifa. What trans Tifa is, is people who are in sort of communist factions of Antifa which is all of Antifa. So, so Antifa, like this broader culture begin to feel uncomfortable being in the organization while being a white male.

And so they transition. That's, that's what I think we're seeing here. I don't even think it's a real trans movement. And, and I. Personally think the real trans community would do well to publicly disavow this stuff and, and be like, you know, the, the, we need to work and, and you need to police your own communities first, right?

Like, we regularly talk about against like, racist on our show, right? Like, it's something that they should be doing more of themselves because these people are out there like assaulting women and stuff like that. And instead of being jeered. By the left wing influences, they're being cheered.

Speaker 3: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So, so that's the problem is it is it's just regular Antifa has way more [00:44:00] trans people in it now.

Not, I think, due to an influx of trans people in Antifa, but an understanding that the reason why people are in Antifa, that gives them a psychological license to attempt to kill or assault 50% of the US population. And they get the additional psychological license when they go to the. They're killing us by not recognizing our gender identity.

Again, if you wanna see this, it's just factually not true. A trans, an Atlantic article did a piece on this where they looked at the Trans Supreme Court case, having to admit in front of the Supreme Court, and that when they blocked purity blockers in the UK on arriving, rates didn't go up.

It is not the case. It's just a fake, fake information. But it is used to dehumanize others and it's very effective. So I think it just gives them sort of double jeopardy, which makes them extra Antifa.

Simone Collins: That makes sense. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You, you wanna hear more about armed queers? They, they held defense they held defense with Stonewall self-defense, a group which provides jayo jitsu, MMA, and focuses on queer trans comrades.

What is. Instagram page since the group's manager is Sebastian [00:45:00] Livingston, who was chair of the ecosocialist Commission for the Socialist Party. UUSA Stonewall Self-Defense recently held a training event, was convicted felon Eric King. Join us in welcoming Eric King. They say former political prisoner and world, world-class amateur boxer to stonewall self-defense.

For a weekend of radical self-defense, Eric King has dedicated his life to fighting for freer world, Stonewall Defense said in June. Quote, what

Simone Collins: is jio Jitsu? Do I need to look this up?

Malcolm Collins: I, I guess if you want to, I don't know what it is,

Simone Collins: GIO.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. A Anyway so what was this guy charged with? So, no, this isn't something he did after working with the group.

This was something he did before working with the group. Okay. So they knew he had done this when they invited him over. Right. King was charged in 2014 for attempting to fire bomb a congressional office in Kansas City. Oh, good lord. He was a hammer to break a window and. Threw [00:46:00] a Molotov cocktail into the office of Representative Emmanuel Quiver ii.

King pleaded guilty in 2016 using explosive materials to commit arson. And so he even admits this and was sentenced to a decade in prison. He was released from prison in 2023. A a a from Unicorn Riot, A Self. This is according to Unicorn Riot, a self-defense a tax exempt media outlet. While behind bars.

So wrote, this guy tried to murder a congressman with a Molotov cocktail in a horrible way. And he's working with like this network of organizations that is training the. Basically Tifa to use assault weapons. While behind bars. King wrote a book called, titled Antifa in Prison with Radical Paper Press, describing king as a vegan anarch, anarchist and political prisoner.

He's not a political prisoner. He tried to murder an innocent person. What are you talking about? I love

Simone Collins: that you, you, you try to fire bomb elected officials office, and then you call yourself a [00:47:00] political person.

Malcolm Collins: That's, yeah. I'm a political creator. I'm really, I only, I, I, I, I guess the, the, the, the people who try to assassinate a president, they're political prisoners.

Simone Collins: Firebombing is just political expression.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. King also helped put together and Rand. And edited the book, rattling the Cages, oral Histories of the North American political prisoners was a forward written by Angela Davis, the former Vice presidential candidate at the Communist Party. USA King describes himself as an activist and anti-fascist.

Again, no, they think you are a fascist. If you've watched this show to this point, without turning it off, you are probably under the fascist category in these people's minds because you are fascist, curious enough to be educated in the same way that like what was it? The, the, how dare you girl?

Simone Collins: Oh, Greta Thunberg.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. How she refused to even watch the promotional videos that were put out by you know, the very people who did the, the attacks on Israel. She's like, I don't know. I won't watch their videos. And I don't wanna see anything they've done.

I just have one moral for that [00:48:00] could, that could taint me. I might, I might start agreeing with you or sympathizing with you. You know, Davis after her arrest and acquittal for her involvement in the murder committed by Black Panthers is currently a distinguished Professor Emirati oh wow. Wait.

So Davis, Angela Davis, this other woman she was arrested for her involvement in the murder committed by the Black Panthers, and she's currently a distinguished professor Ada at the history of Consciousness and Feminist studies department at the University of California Santa Cruz.

Simone Collins: Oh dear. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: If you wanna get some of the stuff they're saying about Israel, no pride in apartheid armed queer said on Facebook 2023 As the attacks against occupied Palestine continue at the hands of Israel and the United States.

Queer, trans and feminist organizations around the world have overwhelmingly come out in solidarity, was the Palestinian trouble and have rejected pinkwashing tactics that use our name for colonial efforts. I don't know if you like, you know, I use the, the scene here,

Speaker 6: it is symbolic [00:49:00] of our struggle against oppression. Symbolic of his struggle against reality.

What would happen to a gay couple in Gaza?

Executed according to Islamic law. Islam doesn't endorse gays. Islam doesn't endorse homosexuality. Just like Canada doesn't endorse a lot of things. So would you like to see Sharia law in Canada replace Canadian law? At some point, it will. You know, Because we are, we have families, we are making babies, you're not your population is going down the slum, right?

And by 2060, according to Pew Research Institute, your research, by 2060, Muslims will be the biggest religious group the world over. What are you going to do then? Are you going to oppose Sharia even then? Well, You know what? I'm very appreciative of the honesty. We don't usually get that. One day we can have a Muslim majority nation here in Canada.

Right In your face!

But this like actually really gets me because they, they cheer for, Charlie Kirk's death and they say the reason they're cheering for it is because a bunch of views that the very people [00:50:00] who they're freaking out, that they're dying in Gaza also hold. Why is it a problem for a Christian to hold these views, but not a problem for a Muslim to hold these views?

Just the inconsistency here baffles me.

Malcolm Collins: You know, because that's, that's you know, the, these groups are not shy in what they think about. I think it's that the, the, these gay communities just so dehumanized, the Palestinian people, they see them so much as just like little. Idiot, half child, half savages, that they are not responsible for their own beliefs.

In the same way that like an American Christian is responsible for their own beliefs. Yeah. Or, or their own actions. Yeah. You know, they can go out and do whatever they want. It doesn't matter if they do whatever they want because they are not the same type of thing. A human, like, that's the only real like, psychological thing I can get from them is they don't believe that these people are responsible for their own stated beliefs and preferences.

Simone Collins: Yeah. They treat them like children.

Malcolm Collins: Which is [00:51:00] ironically much more racist than the other side. Anyway, thoughts, Simone, on all this that's happening,

Simone Collins: I mean, what would you do? My, my biggest concern here is that this is while the people involved on the right are looking for practical solutions to end political violence and maximize public discourse.

But I fear will happen is that people will advocate for, and in some cases implement policies that are really just more about suppressing political speech functionally, which, if codified in law or policy will then be used by the left next time they're in office or in the majority to stifle political speech on the right.

And I don't like, I really, I appreciate the point that you made yesterday. That there are more underlying issues that need to be addressed that are causing this, like allowing culturally for people to believe that something [00:52:00] is murder and therefore they're justified in killing someone who does that thing.

So if, if words are murder or violence, then you are justified in committing murder or violence against someone who uses words you don't like.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and I think defining words as murder or violence when they don't. Cause violence or murder is equivalent to murder or violence because once you draw this equivalence, once you see that Charlie Kirk's assassination came downstream of this belief, you understand how virulently you need to fight against anybody who states this belief.

Simone Collins: Well, any where I struggle with this is, I mean, okay, are you going to apply the same reasoning though to something like someone who would bomb an abortion clinic in a way that kills people? Because they believe that those people are committing murder. And here you have people with differing definitions of truth.

No, it's not

Malcolm Collins: incurable at all. Okay. I disagree with the people who say that life begins at conception. Okay. Yeah. I disagree with them. But their world [00:53:00] philosophy is internally logically consistent. Right. But I

Simone Collins: think a trans person's world philosophy by that argument is because if, if I will die because someone is, is suppressing my ability to transition, then you are committing murder.

Malcolm Collins: Simone, the point I'm making here, and this is an important point, if trans people who were not transitioning were dying at a way higher rate. Okay. Mm-hmm. If we did see a jump in un alives in the UK when they banned puberty blockers, so you're saying the

Simone Collins: difference with this trans belief is that it's provably wrong, whereas with the belief that life begins, a conception isn't provably wrong.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. They're, they're, they're were, they're, they're basing their belief on something that is provably not true. Mm-hmm. That, that is the difference between these two groups. Right. The other group's belief is downstream of their religious metaphysical framework, and it's not like a metaphysical [00:54:00] framework they made up to justify their belief.

It's one that people have had for like half a century. Mm-hmm. It's, it's one that many people in early American history would've had. It is not a like a, a, a, like, I, I dis again, I disagree with it. I do not think it's something they should be doing. I do not understand how something was out. Neural tissue can have a soul.

Like I just don't, it doesn't make a lick of sense to me. It doesn't make a lick of sense to me that if. It embryos did have a soul that human identical twins could exist because that's when an embryo splits after that would mean that the soul is splitting, and we don't think that that happens. So then in installment happens later for some embryos, that doesn't make sense to me.

And then human kymera share a soul. That's when two fertilized embryos combine later into one person. That that doesn't make sense. Like why would God allow all of that if, if they did have souls? I can look at that and just be like, I disagree with it, but it doesn't disprove their position, right? Mm-hmm.

It's, it's a different in perspective in many ways they are [00:55:00] more justified in just being like, well, you making me feel uncomfortable is equivalent to murdering me. I mean, obviously no one historically believed this, and this is something they made up just to, to justify themselves, but at least it's like a metaphysical framework instead of something that's factually untrue.

Simone Collins: I think maybe a historically equivalent would be dueling people would. Essentially intend to kill people and, and challenge them, put them in a situation where they were obligated to engage in an activity that could kill them if they felt insulted by them. That, I mean, that was done, you know, like I'm, I'm just saying this isn't unprecedented and what I'm interested in is non-partisan solutions that address the underlying problems which seem to be downstream of a loss of touch with reality and things that matter.

Speaker 6: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression. Symbolic of his struggle against reality.

Simone Collins: Like with dueling, like, it was so stupid that people would be like, you've questioned my honor, [00:56:00] like, dude, just grow a pair of balls and show that you're honorable and you don't have to like, kill someone to show that you, you know, like that, that's stupid, but

Malcolm Collins: that's a cultural difference, right? Like this is well, right.

Simone Collins: But I mean, transness is a cultural difference. I just, I, I want, I want a future of pluralism where you're not like, we're gonna exterminate this culture because they're wrong. But, but

Malcolm Collins: Simone, what you're missing is. You are in dueling does not impose a culture on another group for a dual to happen.

Both parties needed to consent. That's true. So that's true. Both parties are part of the culture. Had to Yeah. They

Simone Collins: both had to engage in the delusion. Yeah. Yeah. Like yeah, I guess dueling would be like only if only trans people. Shot each other for misgendering each other.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. If, if that is where it went, if only trans people could be fired for misgendering, that's different.

Yeah. But they're implying their culture to people who do not share their cultural practices.

Simone Collins: Mm. Well, but people bombing abortion clinics are applying their culture to people, which [00:57:00]

Malcolm Collins: they, but their culture says that that clinic is killing, you know, I know thousands of babies a day. I

Simone Collins: Right. And trans culture is believing.

'Cause also they, they don't, they don't leave your dad as legitimate. I'll explain this for

Malcolm Collins: you. What if a group of progressives

Speaker 3: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Decided that they were going to start exposing babies? And there was a baby exposure clinic. Mm-hmm. And from your cultural f because they'd say, look, babies aren't fully narrowly developed.

Yeah. They're not a full human yet. They'd use many of the same arguments that people use around abortion and then say, we're gonna expose them. Mm-hmm. Would you be justified in murdering the people who ran that clinic because it's their cultural framework?

Simone Collins: I know, and I mean, I think it, it's one of those Luigi man Jani issues, right.

Where like. People take the justice into their own hands and they're gonna get punished for it. But it may be worth it. You wouldn't be.

Malcolm Collins: So, so this might [00:58:00] be surprising to some Christians. I mean, like, wait, I, as a Christian am not supposed to interfere with a clinic that's exposing babies. And I'm like, how do we know that?

Well, because we know our early Christian fathers when Christianity was spreading, you can look at our video. Was Christianity really more moral? The dominant practice around the Christian community at the time was exposure of unwanted infants. Well,

Simone Collins: that whole thing about the rise in Christianity was because Christians didn't practice exposure.

Right. But they didn't

Malcolm Collins: force their beliefs around Oh, that's true. Own exposure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On pagan families.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And if they had felt that way, we would have reports of it, because that would've really freaked out the Romans if, if all they did, for example, was rescue the abandoned babies. The Romans would freak out about that because we saw how much the Romans freaked out about the Jews doing this.

We talk about Tuss complaining about how the Jews are so evil because they don't even expose their babies. I, I always love that one if you do or if you don't. When Christians come to power, the Jews kill babies. That's the blood libel myth. And, [00:59:00] and when, when the Romans are in power, the Jews are evil because they don't kill babies.

And you're aware

Simone Collins: that a bunch of people are convinced that Mossad was somehow behind the Charlie Kirk assassination.

Malcolm Collins: What

Simone Collins: I know,

Malcolm Collins: I, Charlie Kirk was wildly pro-ISIS. Israel. I know.

Simone Collins: I'm just telling you what

Malcolm Collins: people are. I hate to say it. It's always moad. It's always moad. Charlie Kirk dying is a huge loss to Israel because not every right wing influencer is fanatically pro-Israel.

Many right-wing influencers. Candace Owens, for example, are anti-Israel wiping out one of the mainstream US right wing influencers who is a really strong pro-Israel force and was young, so would be alive for a long time and likely grow in influence. Was would mossad's, not idiots. Okay, guys. Like you, you, I, they pull off the pager thing.

They pull off the look. I'm not saying like if Candace Owens died and somebody was like, Masad did it. I'd [01:00:00] be like, I will explore.

Simone Collins: Well, and also even with Epstein, you were like, I, I'm not gonna say it wasn't Mossad like Yeah. It is not like you're, yeah. I'm not

Malcolm Collins: against saying it's Mossad when Mossad has an interest in something.

Yeah. Yeah. Charlie Kirk was not Mossad. And people have been like, oh, I know it's goes against a narrative, but, I think it was one of Charlie of Kirk's guards, and I'm like, what are you talking about? Nothing could go against the narrative more for progressives, at least than that. It was somebody who was a trans partner and that was connected to a wide trans network of influencers, right?

Like, that, that seems way worse for the narrative than, than Mossad or, or, or the, well, Mossad would be worse for the narrative, but, but the, the, one of his guards did it. And, and also keep in mind. This guy, like basically admitted to this, was in Discord. Now, like all of his friends on Discord thought he would've done something like this, and he previously was like, oh, maga, up until college, you think you're gonna get some like bright eyed, bushy tail, like [01:01:00] Mormon boy and convince him to throw away his life on this.

For some like psyop operation, I, I don't think so.

Simone Collins: The argument is that. Mosad in the past has used four chan to radicalize people politically, and that now it uses trans discord servers. Anyway, though, that's, I wouldn't be surprised. I'm just telling you what I wouldn't

Malcolm Collins: do. Sometimes it's just this is against mossad's interests.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I can't see how it helps him, but whatever. Anyway.

Malcolm Collins: All right, love you did esmo.

Simone Collins: I love you too, Malcolm,

Miss

Malcolm Collins: anything. You know, I, I only get like the positive emotions from like one, like, I think it takes like 10 positive comments to make one mean comment. Oh, of course. Yeah. Because there was a mean comment this morning and I just, I just blew my gas. And especially when they're just like wrong. Like, they're like, you guys know nothing of what you're talking to the shooter of, the whatever assassin guy he was a, a far right activist. And I was like, I can't believe Charlie Robinson to like, argue about [01:02:00] this and be like, what are you, how are you this goon in, in the head?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like if your parents are ex no people in the comments of, of the video that're in today on.

All the trans people associated with the Charlie Kirk assassination pointed that out. They're like all these people who think that if you're raised by Republicans, you are going to be a Republican. Have never heard of like the preacher's daughter trope. Well

Malcolm Collins: statistically you are eight out of 10 probability you're a Republican if you're raised Republican.

Nine out. Yeah, I guess maybe

Simone Collins: I just see that so it's preposterous 'cause consider the political affiliation of my parents.

Malcolm Collins: Well consider my mom. You're the one out wanted to, well, you're the one out of 10 raised Democrats who go Republican. But I think your parents are Republicans now. I would not be surprised if they vote Trump.

Simone Collins: Come on. My mom wanted to to away. No, your away. Mom. I'm think your dad now,

Malcolm Collins: is your dad still a Democrat?

Simone Collins: I'm pretty sure he is. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Move to Texas. Those Texans are not gonna be happy about that.

Simone Collins: I don't think he tells anyone about it, but he's said a bunch of things that make me think he's still. [01:03:00] Very much a Democrat.

Malcolm Collins: But the point being is, yeah, I, you know, he had a higher probability, but he got into the education system. His parents didn't give him proper inoculation, I assume. You know, and this is the big problem with Mormon families is they don't give their kids enough sexual education. And so it provides a giant Oh no.

And so then they,

Simone Collins: yeah, when they like actually look into sex, they can end up going in crazy directions.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, because there's like a huge hole in their brain about like arousal and pornography and fetishes and, and they're like, well, you wouldn't be aroused by X unless you were possessed by a demon. And it's like, well, I'm not possessed by a demon, so this falls into like dumb stuff and I'm gonna, yeah.

I I, I, I do not agree with the Mormon relationship with, I, I think like it makes you very, very, very at risk of having your kids cooked if you're like super anti-sex and porn. If anything, I argue, I mean,

Simone Collins: I think there's a lot of things that we would've. Agree with, like you don't need to build your entire life and identity around your arousal pathways.

Agree. But then agree [01:04:00] also be like, don't live in ignorance of arousal pathways and how they work and how human sexuality works. 'cause that's also gonna land you in a lot of trouble. So living fear of something, you still

Malcolm Collins: letting it control your life, you know, if

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

Malcolm Collins: It's, it's, it's just have discipline, you know, like the, the Randy Marsh thing.

Wrong. Well, yeah. They're taking

Simone Collins: the wrong approach to arousal too. Like I think our approach with arousal is like the dune approach to fear. Fear is the mind killer. You let it pass through you and only you are left. Right. That is arousal. Yeah. It's whereas like Mormons are like, no, the Mormons don't let.

The arousal pass through them and they don't let themselves, they just, instead, they're like, no, I shield. And then like, no, it destroy, it destroys them. You can't pretend it's not there. You can't turn. Well, it doesn't destroy

Malcolm Collins: all it off, off like a light switch kids at more risk.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: I mean, especially during that extra horny like teenage time period, like, oh my God.

If you had told me, if you told me today for a while,

Simone Collins: I think it worked because it got young couples to get married real [01:05:00] fast. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: It doesn't hap doesn't happen anymore. Yeah.

Simone Collins: I mean, it still does happen, but you know, just, I think there are many more damaging pathways it leads to.

Speaker 7: Indie. Indie. Everybody likes a strawberry. Oh, right. You're just mistaken here. Oh, see, mommy eats a strawberry.

Speaker 13: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 7: Did you like it? No, but everybody likes strawberry. They're so yummy. Look how, how? Gum, Hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. [01:06:00] That's right. Huh? A little bite. Yeah. Yummy. Do you like, it

Speaker 13: sounds so bad now, right? Yeah. Well,

um.

Join Malcolm and Simone Collins as they dive deep into the aftermath of the Charlie Kirk assassination. This episode explores the online and real-world communities connected to the event, the reactions from various groups, and the broader cultural and political implications. The discussion covers radicalization, the role of online subcultures, media narratives, and the impact on public discourse. Thought-provoking and unfiltered, this conversation challenges mainstream perspectives and encourages critical thinking about current events.

Malcolm Collins: So, in a A Steam group that was titled, read This If You're Gay, which is like, for like memes and stuff.

Simone Collins: Oh was, so is that what that one bullet engraving was? If you're reading this, you are gay.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah, he

Simone Collins: mentioned the steam group in the bullet. I hadn't even noticed that. Yeah, if you're reading this, you are gay, Lowell, something like that.

Malcolm Collins: They're described a radical, far left trans individual

posted quote, you guys, I have something big, big in all caps coming soon. Just be sure to check the news. You'll know it when you see it in quote, oh gosh. Immediately after the shooting they quote tweeted that other quote saying something big's about to happen, saying, well, that's that. So, was Sky Valez? Trans as well. , Released a song a few months before this titled Charlie Kirk dead at 31. And then they released a song titled Charlie Kirk's Death Isn't Enough for Me

We'll be going over the individual who said September 10th is gonna be a very interesting day. And then I plead the fifth. The person who said, Charlie Kirk doesn't know what's going to happen tomorrow. , The person who said, wouldn't it be funny if someone shot Charlie Kirk on September 10th?

If it is true that a large number of trans individuals were aware of this attack before it happened, that's something we need to introduce into the public conversation, this wouldn't be the first trans murder cult that we've talked about on this show. Look at the Ians. But if trans murderer cults are becoming a thing, that's something we need to be talking about. I.

would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today, today. We are going to be talking about a number of things related to the Charlie Kirk assassination.

I'm not excited about the assassination. I already had the day where I said, I'm not excited to be here with you today 'cause we were talking about that specifically. And that's not what we're talking about today. Today we're gonna talk about a few areas. One, we are going to be talking about a couple convergent phenomenons that are worse unpacking, which is the huge array of people who, with their public accounts are going out and saying.

I am glad that this happened. I am glad that this person was killed because of their, you know, very, if you look at his actual beliefs instead of like the random out of context quotes that you'll get from leftists, he's just boomer conservative. He's, he is not new, right. But he is very generic boomer conservative.

And these people are saying, no. I,

Simone Collins: I would say he's even, even more open than that. Or maybe hippie boomer conservative. Yeah. Hippie

Malcolm Collins: boomer, conservative. Yeah. He is, if, if you're like, I think people with those beliefs should be. Killed because that's what you're saying

Simone Collins: then you

Malcolm Collins: think

Simone Collins: most centrists in

Malcolm Collins: America

Simone Collins: or Christians should be

Malcolm Collins: killed, basically.

Yeah. And the number of people, like, we're gonna go over a number of teachers who have done this, the number of people who make video games and like run studios. We're gonna go over people in the medical field who have done this. You're, you're, and. Two things are interesting. One is that, that they feel that it's okay to say something like, I think mainstream conservatives should be killed without realizing that that's what they're, I mean, because they've been convinced that mainstream conservatives are extremists when they hold positions that most Americans have hold for the past 50 years.

Yeah. You know, they won. Feel safe going out and doing this Right. And, and by the way, if you wanna do something about this, don't complain to hr. And Asma Gold said, don't go to the top of your, your company go to OSHA and say you don't feel safe, because then the government has to do something.

I love

Simone Collins: that advice. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And the CEO. Is very likely to respond if a company is getting a lot of OSHA complaints and it can be done anonymously. So you just say, this person is saying that they want to kill mainstream conservatives. Right? Or they think this is a good thing, right?

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And I don't feel safe in this environment.

And, and that will, but the other thing that's interesting is that people are even addressing this. Like people are responding to this. Like, you, it, it, it feels like these people wouldn't have been fired. Three years ago or something like that. So we are absolutely now seeing a shift. Like, it's like, oh, well this is just like you guys, where you said you know, trans people are, are, are not a disenfranchised group, and in fact are a group in power because they are a group you are not allowed to criticize or you could be fired.

Like if you misgender them, you could be fired. And I'm like. There's a big difference for being fired for misgendering somebody and celebrating that somebody was shot in front of their children and saying that that should happen again in the future. Yeah. Like those are two categories of, one is being mildly inconvenienced and the other is demanding genocide.

Simone Collins: Well, and egging on a complete degradation or, or. And to public civility and, and safety in order and law following. But, but I also wanna

Malcolm Collins: point out here, and this is also really important, is the people who are like, well, then you should just never say that anyone, no matter what they're doing, should be punished in a way that is outside of the legal system, like you are just out against extra judicial killings.

I'm absolutely not, because I think if we look at where society is going right now, eventually we may need to. Rise up, right? Like, we may need to fight against this system if it becomes too dictatorial, if it becomes too controlling, that may happen within our lifetimes, and that involves extra judicial killings, right?

So these people who think that they've just found this safe position of, oh, well, just never, ever, ever rise up, just never, ever, ever revolt, well then what happens? Right. Like you, you need to be like, no. The problem is not the extra judicial killing thing, it's the extra judicial killing for like mainstream normal beliefs.

That is, that is psychotic, especially beliefs that aren't really hurting anyone. Mm-hmm. And we can get to, we got to that in the last episode. Well, people will be like, oh, we had all these beliefs that hurt people. No we didn't. It's very boomer conservative stuff. But anyway another thing I wanna get to, which is what we're gonna start with here, because I found this really fascinating, is in the last episode.

I made the prediction that I suspected this person was going to be trans or have ties to the trans community, right? Like this lighter sort of trans community thing comes out. Who this guy is, everyone is saying Malcolm, you mis called it like, I don't like that you get ahead of your skis on this stuff.

And I'm like, no, no, no. You have to get ahead of your skis if you have a worldview. Right. And this worldview cannot predict future events, right? Like it's a non predictive worldview. It cannot give you insight into why a country is doing something or what a country is gonna do next, or what a movement is going to do next, or what type of person is gonna do x.

You do not have a useful worldview like that. That worldview remains untested. And so I made a prediction that, one, a group, a very rare group in the us, it makes up like 1.5% of the US population was gonna be involved in this. Since the shooting has happened, some very interesting things have happened and, and people have done more researching.

Obviously the big one is, but I actually think that this might be less important, is that the, this, this, this person's, the person who they were in a relationship with and were living with turned out to be a trans person.

Simone Collins: So do we, do we have proof that they're in a relationship? Yes.

Malcolm Collins: The police have confirmed they were in a relationship.

Simone Collins: Whoa.

Malcolm Collins: So this isn't like random speculation anymore. This is, I think it was like the governor of Utah specifically confirmed this. So we'll get to that. I actually think that that person. So a lot of people have kept trying to be like, oh, here's this trans person online that seemed to have knowledge of the shooting before it happened.

This is this person's partner, romantic partner account. And then as we dig deeper, it turns out no, they were actually a different trans person and not this person's partner. Oh. So what we are finding is it. Peers that there were, in addition to this person's partners, three trans individuals and, and no one who wasn't a trans individual who knew about this shooting before it happened.

And a lot of, I thought a lot

Simone Collins: of people were saying because the roommate alleged partner was complicit in turning in.

Malcolm Collins: The roommate was not complicit. Tyler Robinson, the dad turned them in, but the roommate has helped give information to police and has been very cooperative with police. So my actual wider read that I can give a skip to ahead of times is I think that the person's girlfriend slash boyfriend, because they started dating before they were transitioning, and now they're transitioning anyway, girlfriend slash boyfriend.

I think that they may have. Actually not had anything to do with it. And that other trans people did have something to do with it, but the girlfriend slash boyfriend was the connection between the assassin and the whiter Utah trans community that was involved in this.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Um, So let's get into the evidence for this, because a lot of people have been mixing up parts of the evidence in a way that, that, that leads people to be like, oh, this has been debunked when it haven't been debunked.

So let's start with the Twitter account. Najaro Galson who goes by Omar. So this individual had tweeted leading up to the rally. Charlie Kirk is coming to my college tomorrow. I really hope someone evaporates him. Literally, let's just say something big will happen tomorrow. Now the problem with these particular tweets is they are real and they are from a, a trans individual's account but they have been paired with a picture of an individual. A different trans individual who is not this Omar character who just happens to be like a lawyer in San Francisco or something like that. And Omar had, it wasn't done maliciously and note Omar, the Omar account had retweeted one of their, this other trans individual's images.

So it was stuck in like the Google archive data Oh. Of what the individual like. Picture associated with the account. And so people were like, oh this is, this is proof. So, no, but it appears that somebody did know right? Like that, that I don't get much. I hope that somebody evaporates him. Let's just say something big will happen tomorrow.

Right? And this, let's just say something big will happen tomorrow with said in response to their tweet, Charlie Kirk is coming to my college tomorrow. I really hope somebody evaporates him. Literally. It So that indicates foreknowledge of what was going to happen. I note here I'm saying this is actually pretty big that I was able to call that a like 1% population was going to be involved in this and Charlie Kirk, and you could be like, well, that's who Charlie Kirk attack.

Charlie Kirk doesn't talk about it. Like Charlie Kirk is actually much more focused on other communities, like the general gay community, for example, than the trans community or. You know, on, on pro, right, pro, pro-life advocacy groups and stuff like that. This was a minority community. And I note here that this comes in relation to something I've noted in the nineties.

In the nineties when conservatives would go out and actually murder progressives which they did occasionally with bombings and stuff like that. It wasn't over like a variety of topics. It like, wasn't the environmentalist, it wasn't, it was always

Simone Collins: abortion, wasn't it?

Malcolm Collins: Always abortion. Yeah, always abortion.

That was the one thing that got you murdered. And I understand how they justified it to themselves. They were saying, well, this person is murdering people, therefore I have the right to murder them. Mm-hmm. With the trans community, they believe that having different beliefs in them is literally murdering trans community members, which is, I I see.

I can see

Simone Collins: that's the argument made that, but it's not true. You need like that trans Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's widely disproven that. Trans people who are blocked from undergoing transition and their lives. But, but that's still the argument made, that's still the belief held that not transitioning is dead.

It's

Malcolm Collins: not true, like in the community. It's a belief that it's true, but it's like the UK banned puberty blockers and within the community, unliving rates haven't gone up. Right. Like we know. Yeah, but

Simone Collins: I mean, remember the, the counter argument to conservatives, Christians killing people, going to abortion clinics was.

But it's not true that they're alive. Right, right. So, right. I'm just saying like, people have different, very different skew views of the world. And yeah, that's, but this

Malcolm Collins: is why when somebody was killed, I was like, okay, a feminist didn't do this because feminist don't go out and murder people like this.

Right. I was like, a, a, a gay person was unlikely to do this because like. I can't think of the last, you know, just generically gay person who killed people for being anti-gay. I don't think that's happened in like a decade. I don't, I, that might not have happened ever, now that I think about it. It must have happened somewhere, but it's, it's just like not a common thing.

It's, it's not a, you know, but was this community, we see this regularly and you can go to our video. My gender agency is murder where we talk about this. Still somebody on Twitter was like. Emailing us to try to be like, like retweeting all of our things being like trans people do not mass murder at a higher rate than other communities.

And we, like on that episode, go over the math like in detail, and they're like, no, grock agrees with me. And it's like Grock was pulling from PolitiFact, like a well known like left wing grift organization that regularly manipulates data. Like it said, I'm pulling from PolitiFact. Why don't you just run the numbers yourself?

It's easy to do the math. Anyway. Well, that's because.

Simone Collins: The, the prompt to gr was disprove these liars. Oh, that's what it was. The only, yeah, the only answer that grok could give was one that dis that, that disagreed with our argument.

Malcolm Collins: Just AI psychosis right there.

Simone Collins: So just present evidence that they're wrong was the evidence.

I'm

Malcolm Collins: right. Yes.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I actually used grok for the research on that episode. I was like, pull up the number of you know, trans mass shooters. What is the percentage in the population? Yeah. But I think

Simone Collins: most, or at least a lot of people using AI use it for confirmation bias. They don't use it for information finding.

So,

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So to go over some other tweets here that I think are interesting Skylar Webster at Fuji Incel posts five days before September 10th assassination. They were a far, they're described a radical, far left trans individual from the University of Washington High School student.

Posted quote, you guys, I have something big, big in all caps coming soon. Just be sure to check the news. You'll know it when you see it in quote, oh gosh. Immediately after the shooting they quote tweeted that other quote saying something big's about to happen, saying, well, that's that. Another one bites the dust or another CHD bites the dust, followed by a celebratory message.

So they were re. Quote, tweeting their own tweet saying something's about to happen,

Simone Collins: man, when you're like, complicit in murder, shouldn't you keep your mouth shut? I mean, only half of murders are solved in the us, right? Like,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, like this is, like, do well. So the g actual guy who did the assassination he was like, top 1% on like acts.

He was from like a, a Mormon. Conservative, like maga family. He seemed like a decent guy all throughout high school, all throughout middle school. Like everyone's like he was a really upstanding guy. Yeah. Goes to college, gets radicalized. And I've noticed this as well where I've noticed more radicalization in the people who long term date trans individuals than the trans individuals themselves.

I don't know what's causing this. It might be that like, because you have to take sort of a submissive position to their ideology. I mean, you don't want the cognitive dissonance of like there's something like they're doing that's hurting themselves or whatever. You become even more extreme in the ideology where, well, I

Simone Collins: think actually it has to do more with.

A feeling of impunity when you're acting selflessly. Like instead of acting in your own self, on your

Malcolm Collins: own behalf. Yeah. Right. Like, I'm

Simone Collins: not doing this for me because, you know, you're still seen as selfish even in a game of oppression Olympics. If you're acting on behalf of your own interest group you, you have more moral impunity per leftist ideology if you are acting on behalf of other groups.

This is why white Karens in general, on the left. Well and on the right, but like especially on the left in this, in this context, are so uniquely violent because they believe they are justified in doing anything. 'cause they are selflessly arguing in favor of, of people in favor of don't.

Malcolm Collins: The director that came to our house that was in, in this, this group of people she was arguing on behalf of like, oh, the poor Hispanic population and all this horrible stuff.

And I'm like, the majority of Hispanic men voted for Trump. And he told people he was gonna do this. Right. Like, you are pretending, like speaking on behalf of another group that doesn't even agree with you. You're speaking against their own asserted self-interest.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, and you're also ignoring the.

To use your own terminology, I guess a lived experience of so many people from Latin America and Central America who are either going through the process of legally immigrating now, or who have recently gone through the process of legally immigrating, spending tens of thousands of dollars that they can't afford to do this all correctly.

Only to see a whole bunch of other people jump the lines, cheat the system, and then be given money for, yeah. I

Malcolm Collins: felt so disgusted seeing this woman talk on behalf of the Latin American community when she knew that like our primary friend network is Latin American. That is, that is most of our friends. Not just most of our friends, but like Bruno who works on our fab AI with me and the, and the team working on that is Latin America.

Like our company is based outta Peru. Like, he, he's based out of Brazil is where we're doing that work out of. Like, my, my first kid's godfather is, you know, a Latin American immigrant like we work with the Latin American community way. It, it was very clear to me that I don't think she had any Latin American friends, like her entire, like their team was like white women.

Like Karens, it was like the Karen Police. Yeah. And, and they, I think that if one of them had been Latin American, she would've felt less comfortable saying stuff like that. It, you actually pointed out to me, which I thought was a very funny and interesting observation, is in the nineties they'd always have these like interracial friend groups where like, one is Asian and one is black, and one is like Hispanic, like on TV shows.

Simone Collins: Yeah. That was their way to show diversity.

Malcolm Collins: And you're like. But in reality, if you've ever been in a friend group like that, you know that there is like no more racist, a friend group than a friend group like that. That'd be the most

Simone Collins: based racist French group friend group ever.

Malcolm Collins: When you, when you hang, and this is the thing.

And I think there was a, this study that we went over, another episode that showed that like, conservatives have more like interracial friends than progressives do. Mm-hmm. I've gotta find that somewhere. But it's, it's, it's in part because of this. Like, once you sort of enter this post. Racist world, right?

Like I, I think that there's the, the racist, there's the anti-racist, and then there's the post racist. No, no, no.

Simone Collins: I, the way I feel it now, at least what the, the feeling I get from the ID of the United States is that we are all stifled under this heavy wet wool blanket of ra we'll say like racial dysphoria.

Racist dysphoria. And then beneath it is just this like itching, racist euphoria where people just like, like 100% work together, whatever. But like just, you know. Well, no, she,

Malcolm Collins: like the, the director lady we had over said racist. Like constantly, she was saying racist and sexist stuff. Like, like, aren't you, aren't you afraid, ashamed to be white?

You know? Don't mean no. Aren't you ashamed of your

Simone Collins: white privilege?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. No, this is stuff like, imagine if you said like one person, she was like, I'm ashamed to be white. I'm like, imagine if a black person was like, I'm ashamed to be black. You'd say they have internalized racism, right? Mm-hmm. Like this is just racism.

But she like was getting off on being racist all the time because she thought she could like get away with it in a modern context. Sex.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Which was just like. It's hilarious how frequently, like woke act, just like transparently racist when they think they can get away with it. Like this, like deep desire to be racist all the time.

That's, but anyway, I'm gonna keep going with this conversation here.

So this topic exploded a bit after we recorded this episode with a number of other instances coming to light. Specifically, there was a talker on a trans account that said, , this was somebody called at, definitely not Jackson. , Charlie Kirk, Mr. College Dropout does not know what's coming tomorrow. Be ready.

This isn't a threat, it's a promise.

There were also two other accounts, , one, , that was titled Tally Habu. . Which on September 3rd, 2025, a week before the shooting posted, it would be funny if someone like Charlie Kirk got shot on September 10th. LMAO, , was this individual. We don't know if they're trans or not, but the FBI suspects they are because they're doing an investigation into this.

, And then another one at Alto. . On August 6th, 2025, about a month before the shooting, the account posted September 10th, will be a very interesting day, a follow-up after the shooting. Said I plead the fifth, , in relation to the previous post.

, This post also reposted another account that we'll be talking about in a second, the Turbo 75 account, , which was a, another transgender individual. This person, the alto of the people who knew about this beforehand, is the only one that claims to be a cis man, although they do say that they used they, them pronouns for a while, , but had recently moved back. .

And I point out here for people who are too deep to realize this, , using they them pronouns is not like dipping your toes in the trans community. You have to be pretty deep in the community to use, , not just like he, her or , whatever, , to use like neo pronouns.

Malcolm Collins: So, in a a a A Steam group that was titled, read This If You're Gay, which is like, for like memes and stuff. September 10th, 2025. 1124. So,

Simone Collins: oh was, so is that what that one bullet engraving was? If you're reading this, you are gay.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah, he

Simone Collins: mentioned the steam group in the bullet. I hadn't even noticed that. Yeah, if you're reading this, you are gay, Lowell, something like that. Right? It's

Malcolm Collins: a common meme. But in the group referenced on the shell casing Right. That he was a member of before the assassination. Hap oh no, sorry. This was mere hours after the fatal shooting.

So around 7:00 PM that evening, but crucially before the suspect's arrest or acknowledgement. So he was a member of this group, the group. Didn't you know, publicly would've had no way of knowing that he was involved in this, presumably. Right.

So it was a group that was focused on furry and LGBTQ plus subculture. A poster named Cherry Lon who unfortunately wasn't able to get any other information on, said, be careful over your S**T, you say online end to end encryption messaging platforms like Signal exists for reasons or just use PGP.

And yes, this is directly referencing a very specific thing that happened.

Simone Collins: Oh, that's as Octavian would say, sus. Sus. No, it's

Malcolm Collins: not sus It's basically admitting it was after the shooting. The member was there. He referenced the group on the shell casings that hadn't been announced at the time yet. And one member of the group is like, Hey guys, just make sure you don't talk about this publicly.

So it meant that this was being discussed was in the community, right? This was something that a lot of people knew about before it happened. Hmm.

Then as another individual who knew about this which has again been confused with this person's significant other, so, but is not their. So, was Sky Valez?

They are a Utah based musician and photographer and trans as well. And they are a one woman noise metal band called God's Finest Scalpel. And they appear to work as like a, a tattooist Anyway they, released a song in August, 2025. So a few months before this titled Charlie Kirk dead at 31.

And and then in April, 2025, they released a song titled Charlie Kirk's Death Isn't Enough for Me and Death to American Scum. So given he was killed at 31, so this was a, I thought he was

Simone Collins: 32.

Malcolm Collins: Was he 32? Mm-hmm. Let's look it up.

Simone Collins: October 14th, 1993.

God, we're old. Age of death. 31 years. I was wrong.

Malcolm Collins: Told you. So, yeah. So this individual appeared to know. Ahead of time, months ahead of time when Charlie Kirk was gonna be killed. And keep in mind, you can be like, it could be a random coincidence that this person knew. I'm like, okay, let's go back here a bit.

This was a trans individual. Everyone who seemed to know beforehand was a trans individual in Utah. So, that's a, that's an unusual trans community as well, like the XMO trans community Right. Around this university. Like you, you still think that's a coincidence. It appears very clear where this individual who did the shooting was radicalized and the community that helped him plan this.

Now obviously the question here is, did they just passively know about this? Or were they actively engaged with the planning and stuff like this? Given the fact, I mean, if you look at the anger that goes into songs, like, like these songs are super angry like Charlie Kirk Dead at 31 and Charlie Kirk's Death isn't enough for me.

These. Like this person was clearly thinking about this a lot, and they expected the audience to be aware of this. Like in their underground, trans Utah music scene, they expected there to be like enough knowledge about this to get like underground credit points that this is something that was going to happen in the near future.

Hmm. And I, I hate what I'm seeing on the left in regards to this is they're like, oh, that was debunked. Right? Like, I've actually seen, like, and what they mean is, is it was debunked that the individual who wrote these songs, sky Vandal EZ, was the shooter themselves. I'm like. Y Yes. They weren't the shooter.

That's not, it's not debunked that they wrote these songs and they were very publicly on multiple song hosting platforms, right? Like, that wasn't debunked. It is debunked that they were not the shooter. Or they'll say, oh, that first tweet was debunked. And I was like, no. The image associated with it was debunked.

Did not. That somebody who was a trans individual going to this university in Utah appeared to have knowledge that the shooting was about to happen.

Simone Collins: Right

Malcolm Collins: now. I wanna quickly go over the oh, o, other, other accounts. Sorry. There was also we effing did it, let it die. Let it die. These were tweeted by, potentially the, the partner of, of the, the assassin. But it could have been another trans account. So this is yet another trans account that may have been involved and known about this. This would've been an account called at Troub 75. This was a male to female account. The account at, at in, in.

The account's bio at the time said, saw Tyler on June 30th. So Tyler was the name of the assassin, if you're forgetting here, by the way. Yeah. Now they later said, oh no, this was a band I went to see. But again, this is very sus.

Sorry. The most important part of this is the person who said we effing did it. This trans individual was a follower of the Assassin's Trans girlfriend on Twitter, so appeared to have direct connection to that group.

And I would note here any individual, one of these instances, I might be like coincidence, crazy coincidence, but still coincidence in people acting in bad taste. Given the similarities between the individuals who appear to know about this beforehand, given that they appear connected to each other and given.

, The implausibility that so many of them could make this accidental prediction all at once. It seems fairly obvious there was a wider, , well, trans Utah community involved in this. I.

Malcolm Collins: Alright, now I want to talk about the celebrations because it's also something that we need to talk about as a society. 'cause it's like.

Simone Collins: Well, actually, there's one thing I kind of wanted to ask you about, you know, on this, on this trans associations front. Because at, at first when we recorded the episode about the assassination, all that we knew it was reported that there were anti-fascist and trans slogans.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, no, no. People had already said that the trans slogans were not actually on the bullets, and they weren't, it turned out they weren't on the, they

Simone Collins: weren't. It was just terminally online stuff. And my initial read of it was, oh, this is just a terminally online person. What's your refutation of that and what's your re reputation of arguments that No, what's wrong with this person isn't leftism or right, is they could have easily have fallen for Nick Fuentes or something else.

And gone super right? Instead of super. The issue is that they were too online and they didn't, as Charlie Kirk encouraged people to touch grass enough.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I, I actually don't think that's, that's a, a good explanation at all. Okay. So why, so first, if you look at the people who appeared to know about this mm-hmm.

Before the event, they appeared to be not internet friends, but IRL friends. These are. Utah, ex Mormon, trans individuals, that implies a in-person community to me. Yeah. That they, they likely, and when you're talking about stuff like indie musicians and stuff like that, that to me implies like underground clubs, an IRL

Simone Collins: scene,

Malcolm Collins: an IRL scene where this was being talked about not just within online forums.

Mm-hmm. And I'd also note here the very fact that I was able to call out that this was going to come from the trans community is pretty effing wild when I'm like, oh yeah, they're the only ones who really do political violence like this. Not like only do, but they seem to disproportionately do it in radicalize individuals.

That's very unique. That's not happening on, you know, there hasn't, well, they found the

Simone Collins: perfect storm because they brought in a conservatively raised gun trained. Young man who actually was a good shot.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, because normally their hit rate isn't great. Yeah. They work to, to find an individual like this and bring them into the community.

But no they, they as a community and you've also talked about this with, with Mormons being uniquely susceptible. I think this is more due to just sort of the, the genetic effects of being born. And people actually,

Simone Collins: Who follow our podcast had hoped that you would comment on this too, like, is this.

Is a lot of this about that, this dynamic that you pointed out, where, where Mormon children seem to be uniquely vulnerable to being radicalized by extreme online groups?

Malcolm Collins: Well, I, I think Mormons are sort of designed for like, I don't mean this any, I, I love Mormons. It's great culture. Lots of Mormon friends, fans, very close with the Mormon community.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: I even considered my theology pretty close to Mormon, some forms of Mormon theology. And so I've, I think that if we look historically at what drew people to the Mormon church and the personality profile that drew people to the Mormon church,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: It is a like historically speaking, and I think Mormons who, who are like more broadly able to see their, their religion without bias would understand that their religion.

In its fairly recent history is what if it was that today we would just call a cult, like, you, I mean you could call our religion a cult 'cause it's a new religion. Most new religion movements are, I think

Simone Collins: the argument you've made though, at least to any Mormon who's like, well, what advice would you give to the LDS church on growth?

The best argument that I've heard you make, that I really agree with is. Hey, actually the best thing that the LDS church could do is lean into weirdness because the problem is by leaning into conformity and acceptance you are making it hard for members of the church to stay in the church when they're exposed to mainstream society.

Exactly. And to take that a step further, once these people who are raised in this kind of, you must conform with the group you're in, end up in radicalized groups like this. They go bonkers.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and also what are they supposed to do? I mean, you a lot of the sort of Mormon culture teaches people be normal.

Be normal because it's afraid of this cult branding. Well be normative with your surrounding group. Right. The problem is, is the normative group, like the normative cultural group is. The urban monoculture, right? Mm-hmm. And so now they're like, well, if I'm actually gonna be normal, I'm gonna adapt to urban monocultural practices.

And then it's like, but I still have all of these like extremist cultist tendencies. Yeah. So what's a cult that's approved by the urban monoculture? Oh, it's this identity politics stuff. So I'm gonna go 100% all in on that. And I think the way that you fix this is I teach your kids we are different. We are not normal.

And you should have pride in that. Mm-hmm. Normal is bad. Don't be normal. Be weird because being Mormon is weird and that's cool. Right? And, and that's how you resist this. You know, when these people come to him and they're like, you are. A, a Mormon, which makes you weird, an X, y, and Z way. You, you can actually hit them with the Uno reverse card.

Be like, what are you discriminating against me for my minority religious background? Like, do you know what Mormons have gone through with the US government? Are you aware of the number of Mormons that were killed at the battle of whatever? My people have been through discrimination since, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You know, you go, right. We haven't even had a president yet. You know, you, you, you could go far with that, right? And so defend the Mormon community. I, I, I like that, but yeah, I, I do think that it, it is uniquely susceptible to a lot of this, so anyway. One, I think it's, it's not about generic online communities.

It's about one online community. And generic online communities do not radicalize people into killers that frequently. Like we've noticed, it's actually been pretty weird that there are not more incel shooters. Right. When you look at the rates of, of, of violence you would expect from this community, you

Simone Collins: have a whole podcast on it.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. We have a whole podcast on it. But, it's one of the only ideologies that can convince people that by disagreeing with them, you're murdering people. Mm-hmm. Like Antifa genuinely believes, and you can see this on his, his, his, his shells and everything like that, that mainstream boomer conservatism is fascism.

They, they genuinely believe that Trump is a fascist. They genuinely, like, even though I was like you, whatever you bring up you know that Trump was a felon for like, obviously trumped up charges. Again, like what specifically did he get the felony for? For not disclosing his prostitute payments in his tax filings which is not a felony.

Unless you, you counted it in a certain way, it's really, but you can go to episodes where we've gone deeper on this. But it's a bit like being like, oh yeah, somebody's like Nelson Mandela known felon. And it's like, well, wasn't he a political prisoner? Like that doesn't exactly make me trust him less.

I, I love it. People were freaking out that we had made this comparison in one of our free Iest episodes, and it's like. , They were like, well, Trump's a ex like a, a a a rapist and a something and a something. And I'm like, I, I disagree on those points. Like you assume that I live in this world that you live in where you believe every negative accusation that's made about right wing figures in the media.

And me as a right wing figure in the media knows that the media just makes stuff up all the time. And it's important that you do your own research on this stuff. And so you just further. Unjustly victimize an individual, making me further sympathetic to them, and not just me, but other people like me.

When you do these sorts of spurious accusations, I.

Malcolm Collins: But the point here being is because they have developed an ideology which isn't true for most online ideologies, that frames anyone has disagreed with them as murdering them or as killing them or as genocide them. They now have a, a, a moral license to. Like bike lock Antifa guy, right? Like, I think that this is, and we'll do a separate episode on trans tifa.

I think this is like a broader thing. It's not like just the trans movement, it's the part of the trans movement that's been co-opted by Antifa and has sort of merged with Antifa into this wider, I have a moral license to murder people with mainstream political beliefs because I disagree with them.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And this has become a normative belief system. Like, you literally, you, you would not see if a leftist figure was like murdered in front of his family. You might see some like crazy online right wing people celebrating it, right? A hundred percent. But you wouldn't see them jumping in the crowd celebrating Wow.

Watching it happen, which we literally, you know, have pictures of from this event. Right. And you wouldn't see. Tons of, so to just go through a few of, 'cause there was like 30 instances of teachers being fired for this. And keep in mind, these are people who are teaching your kids. Like you might be like, oh, they were fired for saying this, that that's good.

And it's like, what were they saying to the kids before this? Right. And what about the ones that were smart enough to do this on an alt account, right? Yeah. High school teacher, Greenville County School District, South Carolina. W Bullock was fired after posting on Facebook, quote, thoughts and prayers to his children.

But in my opinion America became greater today. There I said it. Then assistant Cheer Coach Meridian High School, Idaho said You effing got what you effing deserve. I just saw the effing video. It looks like you got shot in the neck or chest. I'm not saying I wish death upon someone, but that's what I'm effing saying for this mother Effer piece of effing s I hope he's dead.

She then added, oh, I hope he is not dead. Oh, oh, pray for Charlie Kirk. Oh, oh. And then later noted, no, he didn't deserve to be violently killed by that, blah, blah, blah, blah. But this is the thing, like they believe that this individual, like, they'll be like, oh, he was a racist. And I'm like, proof he was a racist.

Right. And they'll be like, well, he said he was worried about when he saw like black pilots, right. Like on his flight. Right. And given the current DII practices and I'm like, anybody who's aware, look at our video, the American Chernobyl is gonna happen with like the TFA explicitly. Asking in their test to try to hire more black people because they were the actual racist.

And then having the correct answer on the test being that you don't like science and you don't take directions well because they thought that's the way black people answered. Like, that's gonna lead to bad people in flying capacity. I can see why I think they're also

Simone Collins: just being taken so widely out of context.

Another prominent example is Stephen King subsequently apologizing for tweeting after he was shot. He believed gays should be stoned to death, by the way. Or just FYI, which he didn't. And really he was apparently responding to miss Rachel, you know, the, the really prominent kids show. Yeah. Like content producer referring to the Bible's love thy neighbor thing.

And you know, in terms of like how we need to be kinder to people. She's a very prominent sort of help kids in Palestine fundraiser and. That has caught her, you know, sort of in, in the middle of political cross hairs. And I think in that context, Charlie Kirk pointed out, well, you know, the, the Bible also says that gays should be stoned to death, just so you know.

And then that was turned into Charlie Kirk. Things gaze should be stoned to death. Which is so

Malcolm Collins: white, like he just being reasonable. Like he wasn't actually any, the other one, like the MLK one, oh he says MMLK with a bag. MLK was a serial adulterer. Like we know this now. He, he cheated with. Friends who were in the clergy with him, spouses like.

He, there's, there's problems with M-L-K-M-L-K is, doesn't have the spotless record, Charlie Kirk does. You know, I hate to say it, but it is, it is just true. You can look at the video we did with Curtis Jarvin on MLK's you know, association with Communists and communists. You know, killed way more people than racists ever did.

If you're surprised by this claim, , and you're like, that can't be the true, what about like the entire slave trade? , If you look at, and it depends on the numbers that you're looking at, but , based on some of the numbers that are held by mainstream academics, if you look at the entire number of people who died over the course of the entire inter transatlantic slave trade, , that number would be about equivalent to just the people who died in just the five years of China's great leap forward.

Malcolm Collins: Right. So like, let's, let's talk about like evil ideologies here. I, I would say that if Charlie Kirk was actually like, associated in working with like, mainstream racist, that's probably the equivalent of working with mainstream. This is the thing when everyone's like, oh, he met with a Nazi, or, you know, he said a Nazi thing.

And I'm like, well, you have communists at your rallies. Like, communists killed way more people than Nazis killed. Like, what, what are you, what, what is this like. Why are we supposed to be freaked out about associating with Nazis and not freaked out about associating with communists? It's like, oh yeah.

Because you control the academic institutions and media and you get to control which groups are the groups we're allowed to associate with and not associate with, or the ideas we're allowed to flirt with and not flirt with. Right. Which just, just disgusting, but. Good point. Anyway, to continue here we got a school teacher in Oregon who said that learning of this guy's death in front of his kids, brightened up his day.

You had somebody in, in Wisconsin, a teacher be put on leave for saying he was a racist, xenophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, sexist white nationalists mouthpiece who made millions off. Dollars inciting hatred in this country. Which he wasn't most of those things. He, like, if you actually look at his stuff he believed he, his, his views on gays were the Bible's views on gays.

Okay. Or at least mainstream evangelical interpretations of the Bible's views of gays. So if you're saying he's homophobic, you are saying no one is allowed to have. Mainstream evangelical religious beliefs, like that's an entire religion that you're, like, you're not allowed to believe. Right? On hearing, hearing his arguments

Simone Collins: against trans people who are actively debating him at his college events, like, you know, why is it not okay for me to ask to be called by my gender?

His arguments seemed really close to ours, really focused around the lack of consent. That goes into that. Yeah. And the fact that you're forcing people to lie and that, that's morally very questionable. Well, from

Malcolm Collins: their perspective. I mean, different cultures deal with sexual boundaries differently.

They deal with consent differently. Mm-hmm. You know, a great example of this which I haven't had time to really articulate, but I've sort of been working in my head as. Okay. Suppose you were going to a native island, right? And you knew that on this native island if you showed your knees, that was considered like a very sexual thing.

And this is true for some cultures, right? Like showing your knees. Yeah. You would be like an absolute DBA to go like showing your knees, right? Because you're being like, what? Within my culture I can show my knees and it's like, yeah. But within their culture, especially if you were going to talk to their kids or something and you knew you were going to talk to their kids.

Right. Now in our society if you do something like because we were at this, this gender studies school class. And somebody was like, well, somebody wanted to dress up and act like a cat in school. And it like created anger in me and like, I don't know why it created anger in me. And now I've like matured past that, you know, because they went to college and were brainwashed.

I was like, no, that, that should have created anger in you because within most cultures that live within America. If a, if somebody says, I want to dress up and play like a cat, that's sexual role play. That's like a, a sexual thing, right? Like I've had girls who wanted to do that, like cool, right? But I wouldn't walk them around on like a leash in like a cat, in like a public context because everyone would be like, oh, that's a sex thing that they are forcing on me without my consent.

Simone Collins: Yeah, man. Get a room.

Malcolm Collins: Lingerie covers about as much as skimpy mainstream female clothing, but we culturally recognize lingerie as a sexualized outfit in display, right? If you went to a children's book leading, dressed in lingerie, you would understand, and the audience would understand that within most people's cultures, not within everyone's culture, within most of the attendance cultures, that is a sexualized display that you are subjecting them to without their consent.

Yeah, this is true for not every, like if you're trans and you're totally passing and everything like that, that's generally not a sexualized display. Okay. But the way that many people are dressing at like children's book readings is very clearly a sexualized display and an intentional sexualized display.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: Like

Malcolm Collins: everything that Alac, Vade, Menon does. The way they dress Oh, is always a sexualized display. It is the equivalent of lingerie, right? And they are subjecting individuals to this without these individual's consent and knowing that they are from the perspective of those people's parents subjecting the children to a sexualized display.

And I think that that's really, really effed. And I think that that's what we're talking about when we're saying you are defining your culture as having more rights than any other culture. You're basically saying everybody has to adopt my cultural norms. And it's the same with gendering, right?

I, when I talk to a Catholic priest. I may not be Catholic, but I'd still call them father because you know, they earn that title through their system. But I can understand somebody from a strong other religious background being like, I'm sorry, I just can't call you father because I do not like, you're not my father from my perspective.

Right. The Catholic priest doesn't say, well, by law you have to call me Father. I'm gonna make it so that you have to call me Father. By law, you have to call me by this title. But the trans community does do that. If somebody has a religious objection to this though, they're like, we will get you fired.

We will make this legal. And that's, that is fundamentally a violation of other people's consent which is really, really bad.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: To, to force that on people, particularly to force it on children, particularly to defend the people who are forcing it on children. And this is when people are being like, well, are you just saying I can't be my identity around children?

And it's. No, like you can, you can interact with children without wearing a clearly sexualized display. And this is why I use lingerie here, right? Because lingerie, you should be able to wear around children like lingerie covers up all your bits, you know what I mean? Like from just like a pure, like I'm following the rules perspective.

Oh, like technically

Simone Collins: speaking. Hmm?

Malcolm Collins: Technically speaking, you're covering up everything. You're supposed to be covering up. But like we all understand that you don't wear this in front of kids, right? Because culturally, we recognize this as a sexualized display. It's the same for most of the outfits you see at things like children's book readings.

And then people can be like, well, so then you don't have a problem with most of the trans. No, I don't. And this is actually the, the problem. But that the community then defends these individuals and said, if you attack these people who are doing sexualized displays around children, you are functionally murdering us.

I'm like, okay. One, not true, but two, when you normalize that, then you normalize murder. And so I think if that statement that people need to like freak out and fight, fight back against really strongly when everyone says,

You need to. Respond to them. That type of language is both a lie and leads to people being killed.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And that's upstream of all this, this, this isn't upstream of gun culture. This isn't upstream of, of, of, I'd even say normal, far progressive ideology. This is downstream of the belief that disagreeing with you is killing people. And this is held commonly within like the punch of fascist within the Antifa community with, which I've always found so funny because they're literal black shirts.

They're doing what? The literal black shirt. They, they, IE they call themselves black shirts. Antifa calls themselves black shirts.

Simone Collins: What's a black shirt? Sorry. Ignorant. So.

Malcolm Collins: Antifa is unaware of this, but black shirts are what? The brown shirts that the Nazis had were named after in Fascist Italy where fascism was invented.

Okay? Their common public enforcer were called black shirts, and this is why the Nazis called their enforcers brown shirts and now Antifa it again, calling themselves black shirts, enforcing a fascist ideology that wants to divide humans based on our ethnic group and sexuality and gender. And you know, fortunately there.

All dying out due to their fertility rates, but they're gonna try to take a lot of us wisdom on the way, and we need to be ready to call them out as being the equivalent of a murderer whenever they say, you are killing people in our community by saying this, when we know that's factually untrue. And as we pointed out in our episode the one about the Atlantic, a piece where the Atlantic is, is going against the trans community and argues from a leftist perspective there is literally zero evidence that this increases you on living risk goes in the community. I think that that's downstream of all the rest of this.

Simone Collins: Hmm. And

Malcolm Collins: I'm not gonna read more teachers saying stuff because you guys know that people are doing this.

You know that there's like. 25 instances of this, this is mainstream, was in our school system and these are just the ones dumb enough to post was their own you know, but who

Simone Collins: are, who are celebrating the, the severe undermining possibly for the time being downfall of open public discourse in the United States.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That's what he represented. And, and, and, and I think that that's why I get so angry when people on the right are like, we should never violate the law. And you know, kill someone, right? Because it's like, well, you're also saying, but we're headed towards civil war, which means you don't believe that, say what you believe, which is that you only do something like this.

When somebody is in the process of like a mass murder in legal solutions, don't hap matter or, or work,

so when you are net giving wives

and that's why I get so angry by these people being like, oh, you never violate the law. No, you violate the law when the law is going to lead. Like, you have to be aware. You can't talk about revolutions on one side of your mouth and then talk about, always following the law from the other side of your mouth, you need to call out what the actual problem here is. Anyway, any final thoughts, Simone?

Simone Collins: This is dark and depressing. I just, I, yeah, I, I hoped that we were better than this and we're not, but I hope that. What we'll see as a result of this is people nevertheless rising above and finding creative ways to fight for the same thing that Kirk was fighting for, which is open discourse and exchange of ideas.

I still think that there are ways forward with greater caution, obviously, and I hope that people stepped up step up to pursue them.

Malcolm Collins: Yep. All right. Love you, Simone. Have a spectacular day.

Simone Collins: You too. Dark times, but we get to see our kids soon. So there's that.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well people were remarking in the other video that you were crying at the Charlie Kirk assassination.

But I like demanded no crying. When my mom died, Simone cried. When my mom died, I didn't cry. Did I cry? I seem to remember you crying a couple times. A little bit. But you were trying to hold it in 'cause you could see that I was holding it in and I think that made you feel like you didn't have the right to.

Simone Collins: Yeah. What a, again, my weak spot is anything bad happening to kids, especially, and knowing he has a wife and two young kids. I, yeah. I mean, we saw it iChecking up, just No, actually they weren't there, thank God. Oh, they weren't? That was, yeah, misreported. Widely misreported. But yeah, thank, thank goodness they were not physically present.

That doesn't change the fact that they're very likely gonna see that footage again and again throughout their lives. And that. It devastates me again. No,

Malcolm Collins: I bet people are, are sending it to them regularly. I mean, you know how progressive are Well, they're,

Simone Collins: they're too, they're too young now to be exposed. I mean, it's like, I think they're three in one.

But yeah. Okay, great. Well thanks. Now I'm crying against It's well, you

Malcolm Collins: should reach out to his wife. We'll put, put them in our marriage network. Seem like good people. Yeah,

Simone Collins: they're amazing people. Anyway. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, great. Love you Simone. Bye. Love

Simone Collins: you too.

Malcolm Collins: Okay for the.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I'm thrilled that we've Diaz golded your room. I'm really proud of it. Oh, your mic isn't plugged in. Oh, yeah. See, look at that. The, I could walk on the floor. I can walk on the floor. It's incredible. Yeah, but I can't, I can't hear anything you're saying.

Your mic still isn't plugged in.

Malcolm Collins: Can you hear me?

Simone Collins: Yeah, no, I can. It's amazing.

Malcolm Collins: I love this and I love that reality fabricator is mostly working. I was checking the logic on the not safe for work story generator, and it needs a significant overhead overhaul. So I'm gonna try to get that handled by the end of this week.

What seems to be

Simone Collins: breaking.

Malcolm Collins: What, so the logic that it's using when I was originally creating it, it was difficult to, because it kept not wanting to do not safe for work, anything. Right? This was the coding apps, not the apps that we have running the AI in it, which are meant for not safe for work, but they're not good at coding anyway.

So it wrote a lot of the backend, assuming like full stories instead of specific not safe for work world play scenarios. So we are gusting enough to work better with just creating scenarios for not safer work stuff and better seeing and interpreting what the user wants from those scenarios. Because right now it's just too much of a generic adventure creator with a bunch of like, fluff in the creation process that it doesn't really need.

So it will be able to create your wildest fantasies. It's just a few clicks, and then you get to select the one that you want most.

Simone Collins: My favorite thing about the NSFW section is there's a checklist, like if you don't immediately have some fantasy you wanna create, you can just go check off everything that might potentially turn you on.

And I don't like it just from a perspective of like, okay, I know these are my kinks or fetishes or whatever, but like maybe you don't. There were things in there that I'd never heard of before and we wrote a book on sexuality together, what if you're like, well, maybe in, in her blog, knowing this ALA for example, had talked about you know, a lot of women don't realize, for example, that they're into PDSM and they'll live huge portions of their lives not getting any satisfaction from sex. And then they suddenly discover that power dynamics make it for them and they're like, whoa, I actually really do like sex.

And I think this is a really great low stakes way to explore stuff that you may. You may have no idea it turns you on or not. Well, when the, in terms of just our kids exploring their sexuality in a safe way. I, I know it's really bad to, like, you can have No, I'm NSF AI is really paying for

Malcolm Collins: this yeah.

To give people an a, a a sort of non-human outlet to relieve sexual impulses. And explore.

Simone Collins: And explore, you know, 'cause in, you know,

Malcolm Collins: if, if, if it's, if it's good at handling those, then you don't need to do, you know, human stuff. Right. Which is, yeah, human stuff. Like for example, I, I've seen some people who have like kinks and they like demand that they find a husband or wife that matches their kinks, and I'm like, no, don't, don't do that.

Your kinks are rare. Like, and it, it's gonna have very little to do with your relationship. Do that with like an AI or something, right? Like. Don't, don't rope your human wife or husband into this.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That's, that's an incredibly niche thing that has like nothing to do with your personality.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Just think of the number of relationships that will be saved because people have a different outlet than putting their entire same marriage on the line because they.

Greater sexual satisfaction.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: it's, it's wonderful. It's a thing of beauty.

Malcolm Collins: Well, we'll see. I mean, the adventure creator part of the AI is working great right now. So if you wanna, if you wanna play adventures we got some great scenarios on there. All that's working. If you wanna experiment with like multiple ais talking to each other, so like, suppose you wrote a document and you're like.

I don't wanna know, like what one AI would have to say about this. I wanna know like what conversation multiple ais would have about this. We have a feature of the AI lab that lets you do that, which I haven't seen anyone else offer, so I think it's pretty fun. Anyway I what do people say on the episode today about China women and dating?

The,

Simone Collins: the biggest thing that we missed which I really appreciate people pointing out, a couple people pointed this out as, as you saw too in the comments, was that single. Women or women in, in China in general have basically been raised as only children, spoiled brats. And also because of the gender difference, the fact that there are many more men, millions more men than women, to have just wildly unrealistic expectations.

Like you are a rare, you are a little princess, like you deserve everything. And there was this one. I read about this in, or heard about this in another podcast called Texty by this great YouTuber. You, you all should check her out if, if you're a girl, I guess, that goes through historical texts in a kind of gossipy way.

But it, she, she read excerpts from this one, like Victorian Writer's advice on who to marry as a man or a woman. He had suffered books for each, but in each, he warned against marrying anyone who was a single child, like, because their, their parents were failures, sort of genetically. Like they're unfit as it is and, and probably if they've been raised to be really selfish.

And I feel like obviously, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm a single one child created, like

Malcolm Collins: a whole generation of that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. That's the thing though, is, is like there is truth to what this guy said, and you're a single child. I know. And look at what you've had to put up with

Malcolm Collins: you. You have two half siblings, so Not really.

And I, I planned

Simone Collins: on never getting married either because I was too spoiled and didn't wanna compromise on anything. So you're very

Malcolm Collins: compromise ish? No. No. But the, the I'm sorry. There's another point I wanted to get to there that I thought was interesting. What are we talking about? I mean, the

Simone Collins: really common comment on the Women in China episode is like, this ain't just a woman in China thing.

Oh yeah. Women everywhere thing, I mean,

Malcolm Collins: people don't realize how big this is. So when we talk about China's low fertility rate. Right. You know, we're looking at the fertility rate of people who are already married. Right. Usually speaking, especially in a Chinese context. And if the marriage rate has halved from 2013 till today, that a very recent time window, that means we're probably not seeing the impact of that in the fertility rate yet.

Mm-hmm. So we are looking to see the fertility rate drop even more dramatically going forwards.

Simone Collins: Outlook. Not good. Says eight ball.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, it's bad. It is so bad. Alright, I'll get started here.

Speaker: Why can't you stop dancing? I, I just hear a beat and my body is hearing the beats. Wait, no, I can't stop dancing. You can't stop dancing 'cause my, because I, because my body can't still hear the beats, but there's no music playing. My friend there is, I'm pretending that there's. Oh, it's like in your head.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, so I can't stop dancing. But you're a really good dancer. Why? What does the music sound like? It sounds like, oh, yeah, I, I'm dancing. I'm dancing to the beat. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. I'm dancing to the beat. I'm dancing. I'm dancing. I'm dancing to the beat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that the song outside? There's zombie.

Whoa, whoa. I'm gonna go,

Speaker: oh, did you dance to so much you passed out? I'll tell you that somehow. Like the beat, like the pants. Okay. I lost all my hands was sanding in my hand. There's, then I, then I just dropped the dancing. Oh, the beat broke in your head. Yes. I just always, I just always, I just.

In this episode, Malcolm and Simone dive deep into the surprising marriage trends in China, exploring why so many men are opting out of marriage despite a surplus of single women. From cultural expectations to economic pressures and social shifts, we break down the data, stories, and theories behind this demographic puzzle.

RFab is mostly working: https://rfab.ai/

We just started a Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/SimoneAndMalcolmCollins

Discord: https://discord.com/invite/EGFRjwwS92

The School: https://parrhesia.io/student-signup

App to talk with kids: https://wizling.ai/

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] hello Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be discussing marriage in China, which has a very interesting phenomenon in which women, now everybody knows for a long time. You know, the China, because of the one child policy. People didn't want girls because they couldn't carry, carry on the family name.

They couldn't, you know, take care of you as easily when they're older, et cetera. And so they would find ways to have boys which meant there was a huge extra amount of boys in China.

Simone Collins: Right, right.

Malcolm Collins: So you would think the demographic that is having trouble finding a partner is boys. Right. That would be my assumption.

Simone Collins: Right.

Malcolm Collins: So I'll go over how bad things actually are in the opposite direction. We will then get into the common explanations people have, why I don't think they're good, and what a good explanation is.

Simone Collins: Ooh. So

Malcolm Collins: at an event in 2025, this was a Shanghai matchmaking event, [00:01:00] a mass matchmaking of it in Shanghai had nearly 1000 women who paid a 601 entry fee to attend, but fewer than 50 men showed up. Ouch. 600 women to 50 men organizing. It just seems like a

Simone Collins: bad marketing thing though, don't you think? No,

Malcolm Collins: No, because you'll see that this happens a lot. Organizers noted that when a single man did appear, he was swarmed like a minor celebrity with women rushing to compete for his attention.

In some cities, similar events have reported zero male attendees, despite hundreds of women waiting. Gosh,

Speaker: In Shanghai, there are plenty of unmarried women coming to my matchmaking events, but hardly any unmarried men nowadays, it seems that for every one Shanghai men, there are several or even over a dozen women competing, and the women are really desperate. It's not that they don't want a partner. If there are no men, how can they find one?

So now whenever one man shows up, everyone rushes for him. This has been going on for a long time. A few months [00:02:00] ago, Shanghai held a rather special matchmaking event with an interesting rule. Every woman had to pay 600 UN while men could attend for free, the women expected a flood of male participants, but to everyone's surprise, nearly a thousand women showed up while fewer than 50 men participated.

Malcolm Collins: the Gong Zg singles fair in 2024, a government sponsored single fair in Gozo had over 8,000 women registered, but only 40 men attend, resulting to a 20 to one female to male ratio.

Simone Collins: What is going on, especially considering the population

Malcolm Collins: skew?

Yeah, the, the, the 20 to 25 assault women lining up. To meet the few men present was organizers noting that the men were quote unquote overwhelmed and left due to the intense attention. I can't take all these women done, women get away. My

Simone Collins: God,

it's raiding women.

Malcolm Collins: In the Chong J Blind date market this was in 2023.

[00:03:00] Okay.

In Chong j, a park based matchmaking event organized by parents saw a significant gender imbalance with, of the 158 profiles posted, 70% were for women. My Lord, in Beijing's Valentine's Day event, 2024, a Valentine's Day matchmaking event in Beijing, organized by a local marriage agency, drew 600 women, but 25 men, making it a 24 to one ratio.

Now. Here you might be saying, well, it's because men don't wanna get married anymore in China. So we're gonna go over two polls, right? Okay. One poll done by the 2021 Communist Youth League survey found that 44 percent of Chinese women do not plan to marry, but only 25% of men plan to not marry. So actually men want to get married in almost double the rate of women.

And another poll showed that around 75 to 80% of. Urban women under 30, oh. This one showed women slightly higher. Okay. Plan to get married. 30 to 60 to 70% of men.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So in some polls you see it, but it [00:04:00] seems that it's either around the same or men dramatically more than women want to get married.

Sure. So what the f is going on here, right? Yeah. And to give you an idea of how important this is demographically speaking, because people don't realize how modern this phenomenon is and how quickly things are are dropping. Mm-hmm. So in 2024, the number of registered marriages in China hit a record low.

Since records began in 1980, falling to 6.1 million couples a. 20% drop from 2023. Oh. So 2023 to 2024 is a 20.5% drop. And it's already in 2024 at less than half the number of marriages that there were in 2013.

Simone Collins: What is happening,

Malcolm Collins: number decrease. And if, and if we go sort of year by year to show how quickly this is dropping.

Between 2023 and 2024, you had a 20.5% drop. Then by, what was it? H 1 1 20 24. The first half you had another 12.7% drop. Then in the second half there, there's an

Simone Collins: acceleration taking [00:05:00] place. 'cause I just figured everyone is thinking this too. So I'm just gonna say it. Oh well because for men in China, it's too expensive to get married.

But no, something new is happening. This is new. Yeah. It doesn't really

Malcolm Collins: explain it, so. Yeah. Yeah.

I can, I can go and we'll read into some of the explanations, but the first thing that everyone always says is, well, in China there's this huge stigma against women who are too old. Right. Or women who are, you know, women are supposed to get married young.

Yeah. What are they called? Leftover women. Career oriented. Yeah. Yes. It's leftover woman trope, and it's like. Even if this stigma were true, okay, the high valued men would secure because like. Sleeping around culture in China and stuff like that, like the problems we have in the us this isn't really that common in China.

To give you an idea of what I mean when I say it's rare for women in China to sleep around, , one study showed that in China, , for women ages 20 to 44 only, , 6.5% reported two or more lifetime partners, [00:06:00] sexual partners. That is.

Malcolm Collins: Right. Like the, it's, it's not common to just like date around and sleep around and, you know, the Chad roller coaster whatever thing, right? With the Chad carousel? The cock carousel? No, it's the cock carousel that, that's not, that's not what's happening in China. Oh. So what would happen, right, if, if the problem was, is that men just had a preference for, you know, younger women.

The men who were able to secure the younger women, like the women who were actually sane enough to secure their partner while they were still young, would be securing these women. But then the other men, it's not like they disappear. For every woman not marrying more than one man isn't marrying because there's more men than women in China due to the reasons we talked about before.

So the men who were left over would, would it still sort of trickle sort to these lower value older women mm-hmm. Rather than be alone, but they are choosing to be alone and then people can be like, oh, well it's that, and we'll talk about this.

'cause e economics does play a role. There's like, there's a lot of economic expectations on men to get married in China, like having a house paying bride price, et [00:07:00] cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. And it's like. Yeah. Except the problem isn't that women are being too snooty around these men. Right. It's not If they're

Simone Collins: swarming them at these news Yeah.

That

Malcolm Collins: the men aren't showing up in the first place.

Simone Collins: Oh, they're going, he gig, go worry.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, I mean, they're, they're just not showing up to the dating events at least. Right. Okay. So yeah. But like in general

Simone Collins: too, if

Malcolm Collins: they were there, like even if they were a lower valued man, presumably they'd have an arbitrage opportunity.

Simone Collins: Yeah, totally.

Malcolm Collins: So to continue here so, and, and to the surplus of men, they have about 30 to 35 million extra men of marrying age.

Simone Collins: So what's, whoa, what is going on? Let's,

Malcolm Collins: let's go over some wrong theories. Okay. But that I think are interesting and worth throwing out there and talking through.

Simone Collins: Alright.

Malcolm Collins: Chinese marriage follow strict hyper gmy marrying up in status, but it's asymmetric. Women are expected to marry up in income education while men avoid marrying down to women who out earn or out [00:08:00] educate them. Urban women empowered by education and careers now demand partners who match or exceed their status, eg.

College educated women want a man with a house car and stable job, but urban men often reject these quote unquote, strong women as unfeminine or threatening to traditional roles, preferring younger, less I ambitious partners.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: A 2019 study journal of Comparative Economics modeled this is Equilibrium Crowding Out High Status Women's Pickiness plus Men's aversion to status equals.

Leads to 20 to 30% lower marriage rates for college grads versus less educated women. In survey, 70% of urban women said they'd prefer a wife earning less than them versus only 40% of women. Okay. With earning less.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Basically what you're getting here is, is just pointing out that men prefer a woman who earns less than them.

Right. And yeah, which

Simone Collins: is also common in western countries, in western countries. And you're not

Malcolm Collins: seeing the same phenomenon as exaggerated in Western countries. Hmm. So one, it doesn't really explain it. And two, even if this was a phenomenon. It would be that the men were showing up to these events [00:09:00] and then getting turned down.

But that's not what we're seeing, right? The men aren't showing up at all, right? And when they are showing up, they're being swarmed. So that doesn't really make sense with this theory.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Next, the skyrocketing economic barriers theory. Urban marriage requires men to front massive costs. We've talked about this before with buy prices averaging around 14,000 to $28,000, and keep in mind what you earn per year in China.

So that's huge. Yeah. Plus wedding expenses, right? With urban property prices up 300% since 2010 and used unemployment at 15 to 20%. Many men, especially non elite ones, can't afford with, with many women thinking you need a house in, in Chinese customs to to buy one and then be eligible and.

Women holding 40% of urban savings, but often transferring it to, in-laws upon marriage, amplify this by demanding financial proof of stability. So when they get married, they send all their money to their family. So they're like, I need you to have financial stability. It doesn't matter for me. Okay. Yeah, this does make sense.

Yeah. And it [00:10:00] is true that marriage rates in China correlate inversely with housing costs. But where Beijing and Shanghai, only 50% of men under 30 own a property versus 80% needed for. Eligibility. But anyway, people are like, okay, so why show up if they're not even gonna date you? This might make sense, but are the women really being that picky at the events?

We'll get into this in just a second because the answer a bit of a spoiler, it's yes, they are. Even though you get these scenes of men lining up, like women are lining up to men, you don't know what they're asking them in those lines. And that's, that's gonna be the big reveal here, by the way. Mm.

And then the final one is the migration theory. Right? This is, the gender surplus is geographic. Rural areas have 20 to 30% more men due to women's outmigration for education slash jobs, while cities have a subtle female surplus among elites. Okay. With women being 55% of college grads in China. But a 5% difference doesn't explain the marriage rate thing that we're seeing here.

Simone Collins: Right. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I.

[00:11:00] Oh, interesting. Here. Well, this, Okay. So any thoughts before I go further? Simone?

Simone Collins: I'm just trying to see what it actually is. 'Cause it's, I mean, those other things are definitely a factor.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: But

also they've been factors for a very long time. They cannot explain this acceleration.

Malcolm Collins: Something has

Simone Collins: changed.

Malcolm Collins: So what has changed? Is what is happening within these marriage marketplaces, right? And it should be obvious, okay? The men don't want to go on dates, they don't want to go to dating events, right? It must be something that is happening in these environments that makes men not want to go, right?

So let's look at what the men are saying. About their experiences? Yes, please. So in one viral Webo post a, a man likened it to a kettle auction where he said, women asked about my salary, my house, and my car before they even asked my name. I'm done. At a Chong Dog [00:12:00] Matchmaking event, where is four Southern singles?

Reported in South China Morning Post Wong John, a 27-year-old office worker, specified he wanted a partner without younger brothers. He explained to organizers that he feared marrying into a family where he'd be expected to support a male sibling, financially, a common cultural expectation in China. I could barely afford my own life.

He said, how can I take on someone else's family

Simone Collins: fair? Can

Malcolm Collins: you imagine that? Having to support your wive's younger brother? Yeah.

Simone Collins: No thanks. Are they all passport broing?

Malcolm Collins: A lot of them are, which we'll talk about in a second, but, but not as much more women actually leave China. Like it's one of the countries.

Remember when we did our episode on like how the incel are stealing all the women from other countries?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: China is one of the countries where if you look at migrants out of China, more of them are women than men, which likely means passport growing is a large thing that's happening, but in the opposite direction.

Speaker 5: Finally, let's take a look at a high quality unmarried man from Shanghai and why he still hasn't found his other half.[00:13:00]

Do you see that? Man? He's been on over 30 blind dates and every single one has ended in failure. Some medicines found it strange saying he's quite handsome. What kind of economic condition must he have for him to be unable to find a partner? A representative from the marriage agency explained that's not the case at all.

He's a local Shanghai. Born in 1992, employed in a state owned enterprise and earns over 300,000 UN a year. He's about 1.75 meters tall, pretty average, and even has some savings. She went on to say many girls actually liked him, but the men had his own ideas. He has 10 types of qualities he won't accept.

He said, if you can meet my requirements, then I can seriously start a relationship with you with the aim of marriage. But if you don't, I'm sorry, dating is fine, but marriage is out of the question. Edisons then asked, what are his requirements? One, he doesn't want a girl who smokes drinks. Gambles has tattoos or wears heavy makeup.

Two, he doesn't want someone who dresses in a bizarre manner. For [00:14:00] example, a girl who in broad daylight, wanders around in cosplay. Three. He doesn't want someone who values pet rights over human rights. Four. He doesn't want someone who excessively posts beautified photos or selfies with heavy filters on social media.

Five. He doesn't want someone who lives paycheck to paycheck. Six. He doesn't want someone who is overly competitive or overly concerned with comparisons. Seven. He doesn't want a girl who goes clubbing, especially those wearing see-through outfits and still shaking it at bars three or four in the morning.

Eight. He doesn't want someone who lacks a sense of boundaries. For instance, being overly familiar with men who are already in relationships or having male best friends. Nine. He doesn't want someone who's not filial to her parents. 10. He doesn't want someone who expects the man to do everything while contributing nothing herself.

Ence responded. These 10 requirements are very normal. I thought they'd be something else. The matchmaker added, believe it or not, when he presented these 10 requirements at the matchmaking corner, he ended up being surrounded by [00:15:00] girls hurling insults at him. They called him an average guy with overblown confidence and told him to look in the mirror.

I was really puzzled because it seemed like plenty of girls there actually met those 10 requirements.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So at a Shanghai matchmaking event a 27-year-old male attendee, Chang Hui described the experience. He approached several women only to be asked immediately about his income car ownership and whether he had a Shanghai Hoko, Hako. I guess that means like home. One woman, a 29-year-old marketing manager reportedly dismissed him after learning.

He rented red other than owned his apartment saying quote, why are you here if you can't afford a home End quote. Chen felt humiliated. And stopped attending these events. He said, these women act like they're shopping for a car, not a husband.

Simone Collins: Yeah, no kidding. This is horrible.

A lot of this may actually come downstream of how few sexual partners Chinese women have. , When you have only 6.5% of the population having slept with somebody [00:16:00] else, , you have a population that is extremely guarded in who they sleep with and how they date, who looking for an extremely high value male?

. And essentially what you're seeing here is what happens when you have, uh, what I think what a lot of Western men wish we had, uh, which was overly guarded females about who they sleep with. When women become overly guarded and that becomes a norm within a culture, you get a cultural norm everywhere around being incredibly prudish, even in terms of who you might marry.

Malcolm Collins: At a Beijing's single fair.

This is 2024, this straight time. So keep in mind this is all like really modern, that this is happening and concurrent with all of this stuff.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: During a government sponsored dating event, one 30-year-old engineer. So like a good guy who you should want. Right. He spoke to a 28-year-old lawyer who listed her requirements within three minutes, a man earning at least 30,001 a month or $4,200, owning a car, willing to support her and her parents financially.

Ah. What, when he admitted he only earned [00:17:00] half that $2,100 a month, which is still a very decent salary she walked away mid conversation saying, sorry, I don't have time to waste.

Simone Collins: Well, I don't care. I would've walked away if I were him 'cause I'm not supporting anyone. This. So, no,

Malcolm Collins: she walked away. She walked away.

I know she

Simone Collins: walked away. I would've walked away If I were him, I, I would've been glad she walked away if. I couldn't, I didn't have the energy from being so shocked by her demand. It says

Malcolm Collins: women are, were unreasonably picky, expecting millionaires only. You know, I feel like to an extent we get this in the United States, it's just that women aren't as transparent or as fast to voice what they're really looking for.

Yeah. And so you get a little too much puss around before they're like, actually I'm only interested in millionaires. I

Simone Collins: suppose I just it, it would seem then that women and men are culturally unable to marry in China if they are adhering to normative cultural standards. That this is a culture that is rendered itself.

It sterilized itself completely [00:18:00] non-viable. Yeah. From a marriage market standpoint, that is insane.

What are they gonna do? I mean, can the, can the government intervene? Can the government say, sorry, we're not doing this anymore. Like your family is, cannot expect to be supported by your daughter's husband. This isn't happening anymore.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: I mean, but they're still gonna expect it. I don't What would you do?

What would you do if you were Xi Jinping? Let's, let's keep going

Malcolm Collins: here, by the way.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Tanton dating app encounters, so that, so let's say, okay, not just the marriage markets, he got dating apps as well.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: A a 3-year-old delivery driver, Zang Bo shared his experience on the dating app ton with Channel News Asia.

He matched with a 27-year-old office worker and after a brief chat asked for his WeChat to see his quote unquote moments, social media posts to gauge his lifestyle when, when Joe shared. Photos of his modest [00:19:00] apartment. She responded, quote, you live like that. I need someone with ambition. In quote, zing felt her tone was quote unquote condescending and stop messaging her.

He noted that many women on apps quote, act Superior, focusing only on wealth or status, which made him feel like a failure and quit online dating. Yeah, I would

Simone Collins: too. It's horrible. That's horrible.

Speaker 2: I absolutely refuse. Leftover women over 30. This one's already 32. Why on earth would I marry her?

Speaker 3: A reporter asks, but aren't you 35? She's three years younger than you, and I've seen that her job is very stable. The man replied, I haven't been unfamiliar with leftover women in my life. Let me tell you, leftover women over 30 all share six common flaws.

The reporter asked him to elaborate. The young man explained

Speaker 2: first, having seen the world when they were young. They developed sky-high standards and feel that no one is good enough for them. Second, even though their looks have [00:20:00] already started to decline, they still live in the glory of their youth, casually dismissing any man as ugly or unattractive. Third, their fertility is on the downturn, so having children in the future may be difficult.

Fourth, their personalities are generally hard to get along with. If they were more amiable, someone would've already swept them off their feet. Fifth, it's not about love at all. It's all a transaction. They immediately start negotiating conditions with you asking about your car house, salary, and even whether your parents have a pension, it's all calculated.

Six. If they once had a decent boyfriend, they use the standards they set for their ex. When choosing the next one, insisting that the new guy must be even better. Have they ever thought that if their ex was so good to them, why didn't they marry him?

Speaker 3: The reporter then commented that the young man's views were too absolute saying.

So you think that all unmarried women over 30 have problems, but you're 35 and still single. Doesn't that suggest you might have problems too? The young man answered, if [00:21:00] I have problems, I dare to admit them, but would she dare to admit hers?

Malcolm Collins: A, a another dating event that had 800 women and 40 men. A 29-year-old salesman. So this is one of the, like, good ones, right?

Talked about the encounter and said it made him bitter. The 30-year-old account, a 30-year-old accountant, asked him to list his assets, was in the first five minutes of talking, when he mentioned he was still saving for her home. She laughed and said, good luck finding someone with those prospects before moving to another man.

So this isn't an event. Where this woman realize there are 40 men and 800 women. She goes to one of the 40 men in one of these lines, and her first thing is list your assets. And then she laughs at him.

Simone Collins: Yeah. The, the level of. Insanity when when you're in a beggar, you're in the beggar position. You know, beggars can't be choosers.

I, I can't [00:22:00] understand this. Are they, are men and women do you think super culturally isolated where they cannot understand how insane they sound? Because I feel like most. Most people should understand this, right?

Malcolm Collins: Well, so keep in mind, in China, most of your friends are gonna be of your family network because you have much more like closer family ties.

And so they may not be as like, and then, and then in social settings because, you know, it's easy to gender segregate. They really may just not have many male friends outside their families who can correct their expectations and family members because they wanna be supported. Right. They're gonna be pushing them.

They're, they're like,

Simone Collins: yeah, get your bag, girl. Oh my God, get your bag

Malcolm Collins: girl. Right. You know, that's, that's, that makes sense.

Simone Collins: Yeah, if, if you're only friends are your brother, who also would love the idea of you marrying someone who pays for his video game, he could go more lifestyle.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, of course. He's gonna be like, Hey, yeah, no, of course this is the right thing to do.

Yeah. He would be dumb

Simone Collins: to [00:23:00] not. Yeah, he is. He is. He doesn't lose anything for her, not marrying, and he has a lot to gain for her. Marrying someone who does that, who signs up for that scam.

Malcolm Collins: Is they're not making a mistake. Like they're actually being really shrewd in their dating, in terms of listing what they expect from a partner and then quickly moving on when a partner doesn't have that.

Right. Like, that's really important. That's what I did when I'm dating. That's what I always recommend that people do when dating go out. Tell people what you're looking for. Yeah. But also the, the, the, the, the secondary part here is you need to adjust your expectations based on the market dynamics.

Simone Collins: Yeah, they, they don't seem to be responding to feedback. Maybe they don't have a shot at feedback considering how few men are even.

Malcolm Collins: I just don't, like, before I go for, I just don't see how you could be in an event with 800 women, 40 men look around, like be in line to talk to one of these men, see all of these women clamoring over these men.

Right. [00:24:00] Yeah. And then not be like. I am the one on the back foot here.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: It's, it, it's, it, it's women have, have become a way in this country where nobody wants us. Right. Like, more broadly it's her wider category of human that is uninteresting to these men. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4: The rest of this matchmaking scene turned into a textbook example.

Today. A couple came into our agency for a blind date. After they sat down, the man immediately asked a woman, how much do you earn per month? She said, A bit over 8,000. Then the man said, your family must be quite well off right. The woman replied, just average. My parents are ordinary. The man then asked, have you bought a house?

She answered, no. After hearing that, the man said, then let's not talk any further. I've got something to do. The young woman was a bit baffled and said, you start by asking about my income. Are you really here for a blind date? The man responded. It's [00:25:00] not like that. I just think we're not a good match, so let's not waste our time.

Then the woman asked, what exactly is wrong with us? The man replied. If you really wanna know, I'll tell you as soon as I walked in, I noticed your bag costs tens of thousands of yet. Your salary is only about 8,000. Moreover, you're renting a shared apartment, perhaps where the rent is about 1000. Food costs, about 1500 and utilities, plus other expenses add up to roughly 1000.

And on top of that, you still have to buy clothes. Honestly, your clothes aren't cheap either, so can you really manage to save 1000 Euro a month? I'd say even 1000 is too much for you to save. Given all that, the only possible explanations for you having a bag worth tens of thousands of un are these.

Either someone gifted it to you, in which case why would they give you such an expensive bag or you bought it on credit? Am I supposed to help you pay it off? Or third, the bag is fake. If you can't afford the real thing, then there's no need for you to buy one. But insisting on buying a fake just doesn't sit right with me.

The young woman, clearly [00:26:00] indignant, said, can't I just save up for a year or two and buy a bag? I really like the man replied. If you're scripting every month just to buy that bag, then we're even less compatible. And then the young woman almost burst into tears from anger and.

By the way, I gotta say I agree with the man's shrewdness in this particular story. Um, I think that this was the right approach. , People who like luxury items can make your life miserable really, really quickly. Um, and, and, and who will because of, you know, if she is. Uh, you know, going through periods of austerity to get a luxury item like this, she's going to demand that you do the same because she has a taste for this sort of stuff.

Whereas a sane person is just like, it's just a bag. Like, why? Why would I want that? Except to signal to other people or to myself that I am X type of person? And if you need to signal that to yourself, you're gonna need to do that throughout your entire life, and you're going to need more and more to do that.

Malcolm Collins: If you wanna go through some other theory [00:27:00] here, which I think are closer to accurate. Okay. We have the lying flat theory. Yeah. Urban men are increasingly rejecting marriage itself, not just events due to changing values. The rise of lying flat and anti consumerist movements among youth reflects disillusionment with traditional milestones like marriage, which is seen as a financial and emotional burden.

Women despite embracing independence, 44% don't plan to marry, still face stronger social pressure to wed driving them to events, and that might be another thing that we're seeing at these events. Oh, they don't

Simone Collins: actually want

Malcolm Collins: to get married. They don't actually want to go plan to get married. They're sort of forced to be there, and so they don't mind walking around and insulting men at these events.

Simone Collins: Oh, that could explain these insane demands.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, they, they make more sense as insane demands of someone who would be happy to live alone anyway. But Sure. If someone's gonna pay for this and that and the other thing, I guess I'll get married, but then, [00:28:00] if not Yeah, no interest. That, that totally makes sense.

Malcolm Collins: Event accessibility and design. So this is another problem that they don't often talk about in these articles where they complain about these events. Matchmaking events are often structured in ways that determine men. For example, high entry fees, like 601 in Shenzhen, strict screening, eg.

Income and education. So you can't even get any of your looking to use this as an arbitrage opportunity.

Simone Collins: Wow. Or

Malcolm Collins: public formats, eg. Parents posting profiles which favor women who are more wi willing to pay slash invest due to social stigma. Men, especially non elites, see these as elitist or rigged status competitions.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, and I, I could imagine someone thinking in principle when setting these events up while we have. Men must be more desperate because there are many more men than women. Therefore we will charge them more and not really understanding, not reading the room, and then charging them a lot more. So that goes.

Yeah. Well I

Malcolm Collins: think the, I mean, you can continue to charge if women fail [00:29:00] to see that they are the problem. Right. Like as and, and, and this is civilization ending for China with their current fertility rate, right? Yeah. Like this is astronomically bad. It appears that where you're only getting strong marriage rates is in rural regions where you have the less technologically and economically productive populations to China.

Mm-hmm. Which is going to eventually bring China back to its previous poverty. Right. If those are the only cultures within China that continue to breed. Yeah. Especially if everyone was in these rural environments, who gets. Educated moves to cities which then act as fertility grinders, which creates a discogenic IE it rewards.

And, and, well, I'll put it the other way. It punishes the genes that lead to higher educational attainment and higher income attainment. Right. And

Simone Collins: ambition and risk taking a lot of the things that help countries become wealthy. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. How would I fix this in China? I mean, I think one thing that could easily be done to fix this and would be cohesive with [00:30:00] China's ancestral culture mm-hmm.

Is to move to a ous marriage style. Where wealthy Chinese men marry multiple women. If women just aren't gonna consider men who aren't wealthier than them, then what you should do is have, you know. Two to three women for every one of these wealthy men, and they'll be able to support the additional kids anyway.

So they're likely to have even more kids

Simone Collins: outside of emperors having lots of courtesans. Was that common with other wealthy Chinese men? Historically?

Malcolm Collins: I could try to check in post,

Here is what Gro has to say. , Polygamy is particularly a man, having multiple wives was common in Chinese history, especially among the elite. , In ancient China from the Chang to the Zow, this was, uh, 1600 to, , BCE to 256 BCE. Dynasties, Kings and nobles often had multiple wives and concubines to secure alliances, produce errors and display wealth.

The practice was codified in Confucian texts, which emphasized family hierarchy and male authority. For example, the [00:31:00] Book of Rights outlined rules for men of different ranks. Uh, to have a primary wife, key and a secondary wife or concubines quay. , During the Han and Tang, dynasty's polygamy remained widespread among emperors, aristocrats, and wealthy merchants.

Uh, emperor has maintained large harems sometimes in the thousands of concubines. , This, the song and Ming Dynasty. So we've gone from, uh, 206 BCE now to 1644, BCE. They saw stricter social norms, but could. Polygamy persisted among the gentry. A man could take any additional wife or concubine for reasons like producing male errors or enhancing status.

By the 19th to 20th centuries, , Western influence had reduced this. Okay.

Simone Collins: yeah, I mean, you know, and like the dramas, of course it only shows up like within the walls of the Forbidden Palace.

So

Malcolm Collins: yeah, I don't know, but but that could be an option and would be cohesive potentially with Chinese sort of [00:32:00] ancestral ethics. Not, not what I would prefer for my kids. It's not what I would opt for my family, but, you know, I, I'm going to be honest, it seems more realistic adopting to a culture where males take multiple wives, then adapting to a culture where women expect less of men.

Because that's hard to do, right? Yeah. And the other positive thing about moving to this system is it would have positive genetic effects instead of dis genetic effects.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Um,

Malcolm Collins: Because the, the men was the strongest gene. Like more men would wash out of the gene pool, which would cause social disharmony, which isn't great.

But you already have that degree of social determining and social determining matters. Less if it's coming from the least economically relevant players in society. Yeah. Social dis disparity matters more when it's coming from larger economically relevant players.

Simone Collins: Right. 'cause that's where the state's gonna feel the hit.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: It's all about what's happening with the money bags.

Malcolm Collins: The other option is very obvious option is. Ban. Do [00:33:00] you, you could create a government regulations that make it harder to move up and stuff like that if you're not married. Just putting a higher pressure on marriage.

Simone Collins: Oh, right. Just forcing it.

Malcolm Collins: Or heavy taxes if you're unmarried after a certain age or something like that, which yeah, basically forces the question. The next is to change cultural expectations about what happens within married IE governments banning bride prices and taking care of the elderly. Yeah, that's

Simone Collins: what I was thinking.

But then again, they kind of need someone to take care of the elderly considering that they're not gonna be able to. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: well the government does have its murder van for people who break the law that they did that ad for, that we've shown in a previous video where they drive around and they're like, if you break the law, we'll come to your house and we'll just euthanize you in a van.

Yeah. Maybe they can do what Canada

Simone Collins: did with their euthanasia program, just with their mobile vans.

Malcolm Collins: Do do it for the elderly, right. To get up a notch. Yeah. The, the moment you run outta money as an elderly individual, the murder ban comes to your house. That's, that's what China could, and, and this not out of feasibility for China

When I was living in China for 10 years, [00:34:00] I mean, I KNEW that there were death vans in China, but it was always one of those dark things that lived in conversation, not necessarily in real life.

But China's death vans, or execution vans, these cars that just show up and execute you, for stuff that I'll explain to you later, and they take you away forever, they're real. They're very real. Very real the crazy thing is that they want their citizens to know about the vans, and they really, really want them to feel scared. I'm not kidding. Not only does this death van pull up and take your life, it's being promoted and promoted.

Malcolm Collins: they probably do it in some more discreet way or say that like you're doing your civic duty or something.

The other thing that they could do is. Ask women to be less picky and find a way of socially punishing women who act like this in events or who, who think like this, right? Like women should feel embarrassed to have these types of [00:35:00] expectations in the way that in the United States, there has been a big campaign basically to make women embarrassed about having these expectations.

Through you know, huge amounts of YouTube videos that go into this and stuff like that. I mean, you've seen this, right? Like you would know in the US because even as a woman, you're gonna be exposed to some amount of like red pill mgtow content and you're gonna be like, oh, I don't wanna be like one of those idiot women who they like interview outside of a club who, you know, have completely insane financial expectations and all want a guy who's six foot or whatever, right?

But anyway, thoughts.

Simone Collins: I think all those are feasible. I, I do think that if, if someone tried to regulate things like bride prices and expectations around paying off family members, people would just circumvent that. You know, I feel like there's, there's some stuff you can't really outlaw. People will do it anyway.

You, we might just need to skip a step and have China just start to make children of the state. In a way it's, it's, they're better off for it [00:36:00] because they're 100% their kids. They, they can raise them fully indoctrinated. They already have experience building infrastructure where they own people and educate them in camps.

Yeah.

With the Uyghurs for example, they would just do this and presumably be a little nicer, but maybe they don't feel like they have to be, but I feel like given this additional information, I thought China might wait a while to do that, but now I feel like it's getting to a point where it may make sense for them to just offer women, you know, gestational, surrogacy payment and then just take the babies and raise them

Malcolm Collins: with As, as a state.

Simone Collins: As a state. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And then you could better, they dormitories, they have

Simone Collins: schools, they train them for whatever jobs. I mean, because then as the state, you'll be able to shift your education system on a dime for, for your state children to [00:37:00] educate them for whatever it is you need as the global economy shifts.

So if suddenly you need more people who are really good with energy infrastructure, immediately you are shifting all the schooling.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I mean, they grew up, energy is everything. You know, they, you grow up being trained to be an engineer from a young age, right? Like yeah. You just

Simone Collins: have so much more control.

And I think ultimately China wants that level of control over its citizens. Why not just, I mean this, this kills several birds with one stone. And I feel like that could

Malcolm Collins: your dystopian solutions. I love it.

Simone Collins: Well, I'm just thinking about what would actually work to maintain stability in the country. And yeah, well, I

Malcolm Collins: mean, I think one of the things is, is for generations across almost every human society women have done a service for the state for free, which is having and raising kids.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And I mean, the, you, this would just be making it fair, you know, we're, we will pay you. [00:38:00] To be a gestational carrier and then to give your child to the state and we will give your child. But the point opportunity I'm, I'm making

Malcolm Collins: here is that I think that people haven't realized how twisted it is for the state to expect.

Individuals within a country to bear the cost of both risking your life to have the next generation of taxpayers and then you investing in raising the next generation of taxpayers when they expect to reap the rewards of that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It, it, it makes sense for the family to take on the burden when the family reaps most of the reward at this point.

And this is an interesting thing, I haven't really thought about this way before, but you pointed out something really big. What has also shifted after the Industrial Revolution, and especially with the rise of social services and like the a largely socialized state, is that [00:39:00] now the government reaps the vast majority of the benefit.

From new people being created. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Because what do parents get? It used to be in the United States, you don't get old age care. You don't get workers. You, you get the, you get the satisfaction of watching your children flourish, which now is happening at lower and lower rates because youth is struggling.

So, yeah,

Malcolm Collins: no, as a parent, you used to get workers for the farm. You used to get a little person you could send to a factory who would work for you, and then the money, and you had old age care. And you had adult age care, right? None of that exists anymore. And the main benefit of having kids is the state, the main beneficiary.

Yeah. I didn't consider that, but you're absolutely right. Yeah. Oh

Simone Collins: my God. Yeah. So then China's gonna have to just create, it's, I mean, when, when the primary beneficiary, yeah. I guess in the end, in, in most economies, it has to be the person who wants the product, pays for the product. Yeah. And we see an economic failure here.[00:40:00]

When the thing that wants the product is unwilling to pay for it. And, and obviously now the product is, is, is going out of stock, no one's making it anymore because, you know, no one's willing to pay for it, I guess. That's huh. Wow. Well that changes the way I look at things, but yeah, that's, that's what I would do if I were Xi Jinping, I would already be.

I'm looking to where I'm gonna set up the dormitories, the schools, the infrastructure. It's all there. I mean, I'm sure there are regions. It's funny

Malcolm Collins: that you think like Xi Jinping and, and, and you go at this like a. An autistic woman where it's like, if I was Xi Jingping, well I just demand that I have to impregnate every woman in the country who doesn't get married.

I, I'd go the Elon strategy, right? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know where the state would

Simone Collins: source sperm. I, I, I imagine they would just choose like in whatever, by whatever measure, like really high performing men, they wouldn't even need [00:41:00] necessarily to pay them for it. 'cause I think men would just be like, this is great.

They need to pay the women, but yeah, we don't need to wait for artificial wombs for this to be something that especially the Chinese state would do at scale. You could just take a, a region that's rapidly depopulating, take over its entire hospital, make the entire thing from maternity. Yeah. Anyway.

Malcolm Collins: All right. Have, it's my Take a spectacular day, Simone.

Simone Collins: I love you Malcolm.

Malcolm Collins: My gosh. China. China is, is effed. Is is like genuinely effed. This is terrifying.

Simone Collins: Congratulations on our fab.

Malcolm Collins: It is, yeah. No, no. R Fab AI wants to check it out now. It used to be like a terrible site in terms of what we were putting together and then come on, I got, but no, it was not like fun to play around with like it, a bunch of things were broken. Now I got, I was like, you know what?

I'm gonna try to learn to vibe code. I'm gonna try to push this project [00:42:00] forward as fast as I can. After like two weeks of working on it, you'd say, Simone, while I was traveling, while we were shooting with HBOI. Was able to, was a huge help from Bruno. Get a really, I think, sort of high quality AI chat adventure thing out.

So if people wanna check that out now, it, it'll get better every week. Like it'll, and it's a lot

Simone Collins: better, I would just say, than any of the other mainstream AI chat apps you'd had me try. So I'm not rest. Even, even at this early stage. If you want a, a better one, just go try this out. I think

Malcolm Collins: the two sections that are really working well are the adventure mode and the not safer for work mode.

So try that out. The adventure mode is the one that we've put the most time into, so try it out. Anyway, but so really like when you checked it out, did you check out like the narrative engine maker and stuff like that yet, or, I haven't

Simone Collins: tried that. I only, I only tried the. Like pre-made,

Malcolm Collins: it basically allows you to create like complicated [00:43:00] multi-pass AI engines for more complicated types of scenarios that you wanted to make yourself.

That is delightful. Which I think is really fun. As, as sort of a, a, a concept for people to play around with.

Simone Collins: Yeah, no, it is, it is objectively fantastic. I love it.

Malcolm Collins: Actually, I just had an idea of her feature. I wanna add Pear Engine. Wiz scenario

Simone Collins: what? For more

Malcolm Collins: complicated scenarios I plan to make one for like battles and stuff like that, which I'll put together.

And one for like city management so we can have different types of AI running on it, which I'm quite excited about. But yeah, things move so fast when I'm the one being the grunt work. Right. It's pretty freaking great. Well, yeah, I I I love that I have a new skill I can code now. That's awesome.

Anyway,

Speaker 6: Torsten, did you just say, come down to try to hurt Daddy. Daddy? Yeah. Why do you wanna hurt daddy? 'cause it's funny. [00:44:00] So funny. Do you know that people think that I hurt you? Toastie. People think daddy hurts you. Why do you think they think that?

Because I wear, because it's so funny when you hurt me doing, doing this. So funny. Okay, and you're gonna try to hurt me too tight now. Ah. Ah. Whatcha doing? You? Ow. That's hard.

No wait, Titan, we're just trying to have a conversation here. We're, oh my God. Tristan, why YE two Torsten?

Oh my God. Why do you wanna hurt me? Titan?

[00:45:00] Oh my God. That hurts a maniac.

Who taught you that? 4.56. After the is formed. It settled in what? What doing you maniac.

Oh.

Titan. Wow.

Beating you up. Titan

Charact by,

oh my gosh, that hurts so bad. Darcy. Amazing. No, you can't jump from there. You [00:46:00] will certainly die.

Join Simone and Malcolm Collins as they discuss the assassination of Charlie Kirk, its impact on free speech, American democracy, and the broader cultural implications. This episode covers reactions from both sides, personal reflections, and the chilling effect on public discourse.

In this episode of Based Camp, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into how Europe is rendering itself obsolete in the age of AI. They discuss the shift from SEO to AI-driven influence, the impact of privacy laws like GDPR, and how these changes are erasing European culture from the digital future. The conversation covers the collapse of traditional power networks, the importance of building a unique online footprint, and the new rules for reputation and employment in a post-AI world. Plus, they share personal stories, debate the pros and cons of privacy, and explore the future of secret societies and elite networking.

Episode Transcript:

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I am excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be talking about how Europe is erasing its itself and its civilization from history within the context of. AI and we are also going to talk about how AI changes the strategies that we as humans use as we relate to the world around us and ensure our own impact on the future.

Speaker: We need to talk. What is that? This is a flying robot. I just shot out of the sky after it delivered a package to my house.

So I destroyed the robot. No one is safe from these b******s.

Malcolm Collins: Hmm. So to. Start with this second topic here. You used to be, at one point you were the director of marketing at the 45th Most Traffick website in the United States. Yeah. And it's the website where people go and write it was hub Pages is what it was called.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And then it was, I think it sort of became.

A different [00:01:00] brand over time, but yeah, it it, what was the

Malcolm Collins: other brand that bought it? Squidoo.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, no, it acquired Squidoo, I think. Okay. And then it became something they now call, you're doing something else, whatever.

Malcolm Collins: At the time it was really big, right? Yeah. This meant that you were at that point in your career, one of the world experts in what is called SEO, this is search engine optimization.

This is how you ensured that when people searched for things, they saw your takes. And not somebody else's tips. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, often it's involved in marketing or whatever, but it, it matters a lot. Like if we were running the prenatal list movement back then, everything we would be focused on is, how do I ensure it ranks well within SEO?

How do I ensure, and these systems, you know, companies lived and died on SEO, like Google would roll over in it'd sleep and all of a sudden it's a whole new ball game. Oh,

Simone Collins: it would? Yeah. All hands on deck. Emergency situation. At the business, 100%. Very stressful.

Malcolm Collins: But we are [00:02:00] moving into a world where SEO is almost irrelevant.

Given the way AI works and what AI picks up in terms of ideas is very different than what would've been picked up in an SEO environment.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And this really changes a lot of the online game, and I've noticed a lot of people haven't realized this. There aren't relating to this in sort of a sane way yet.

Hmm. There's still. Brian Chow, whose article we're going to be talking about today, he, he wrote an article called Public Intellectual Privilege about how you as a public intellectual get to have a totally different relationship with ai, which is true. I, for example, can go to an AI and say, you know, what would Simone Collins like for her birthday?

And it'll give me like, great recommendations. What is it telling you I

Simone Collins: want for my birthday?

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah. Well you can ask it. You can ask it while, while I'm talking. Okay. What should Malcolm get Simone for her, her birthday. Right. Okay. Yeah. And what you'll see is AI actually knows a, a, a great deal about [00:03:00] you and me.

Now there are people from the last generation, like I, I recently had my dad over and I asked AI questions about him and it could find almost nothing about him. Yeah. Despite him being a fairly. Within his time, famous public individual. Mm-hmm. And

Simone Collins: yet he

Malcolm Collins: expressed this as a good thing. He's like,

Simone Collins: well, I don't like having things about me online.

Malcolm Collins: Right. It, it reminds me a bit of, and, and one of the things we're gonna be talking about a lot in this is the, you know, self-defeating obsession with privacy that some individuals developed during the age of deep data where we saw privacy as a way to protect ourselves from large companies. But I mean, also like what do you even protecting yourself from like, getting better Amazon recommendations.

Like I, I understand you can be like, well, what if my data is leaked? But like that's data that can be leaked regardless. Right? The thing is, is that between [00:04:00] the era of deep tech. Personal protection, advocacy and the era of ai, the benefits and downsides of AI knowing about you or, or, or companies knowing about you, has done a complete 180.

Yeah. Whereas it used to be almost just like a strictly net negative to have a lot of information about you online. Now it's almost strictly a net positive because it means when you go and you ask AI questions. So first I'm just gonna dive into. What is SEO but for ai, how is it different? Yeah, so first you don't really care as much.

'cause was like, why do you still care about getting media? And I'm like, well, because media references AI to some extent, but in a large extent, like just being in media a lot just doesn't matter that much anymore. Yeah. Because media does not. Alter what AI is going to do or say on a particular piece.

What does alter what AI says or does about a thing is the volume of work that is out [00:05:00] there. I. Volume now matters much more than how much the public is engaging with a thing. The number of clicks a YouTube video has, or the number of clicks a site or document has, or link juices, it was called historically.

The number of credible sources that are back linking to content does not. Very heavily determine whether an AI is going to cite that document. Hmm. What determines if an AI is going to cite a document is how well thought through it is, how long it is and how novel. It's and I have seen this because AI.

Regularly, sites based camp episodes in responses when I am asking it about just like normal day-to-day things.

Simone Collins: Totally unrelated

Malcolm Collins: to you. Totally unrelated to me.

Simone Collins: What's an example of a, a thing that you asked about? I.

Malcolm Collins: I was asking about something related to like trans stuff and an AI ended up referencing some of our episodes.

I was asking about a [00:06:00] thing related to Antinatalists philosophy and it referenced some of our stuff. So it's like tangential to things that we talk about. I mean, obviously but the person could be like, wait, how are you getting your content referenced by AI when the AI doesn't know that you are the one asking the questions?

Hmm. And the answer is that. We release our content long form every day and multiplicatively. That means that whenever we're releasing an episode, you're going to see a YouTube episode of it, which can be scraped by ai. But then you're also gonna have a Substack article, which some AI can scrape. And then that Substack article is also going to be podcast to a number of podcasting websites, which some ais also scrape.

Hmm. So it's getting the information from multiple sources, and then with the most important episodes, like the tracks or the book series that we wrote, we actually have full plain text versions of both all [00:07:00] of the tracks and all of the books hosted as individual WebP pages marked. For AI to use on multiple websites that we host.

This is why when people are like, why does AI give such good responses in response to techno puritanism and your religious beliefs? And it's because we, we structured and aggregated those religious beliefs in a way that makes it very easy for AI to grab, which is not the way traditional SEO companies think or the way a lot of traditional people think when they're engaging with this stuff.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Thoughts Simone.

Simone Collins: I agree. I've done a lot less of this than you have, but I also intuitively just really have a lot of gripes with people and online privacy or privacy. We get to all that next, but yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: so I'm, I'm excited to What did, what did, what

Malcolm Collins: did rock say about you? Like what did it

Simone Collins: I wouldn't appreciate any of the gifts it recommended.

I mean, some of it would, it says personalized data driven artwork work, but. [00:08:00] Come on.

Malcolm Collins: I have literally given you that before and you've appreciated it. And it wouldn't have known that.

Simone Collins: No, I've given that to you.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, you wouldn't appreciate it if I got it for you?

Simone Collins: No, I don't want it. I, I, 'cause I can make it like it's so easy for me.

Why would I want that as a, what do you want?

Malcolm Collins: Just food.

Simone Collins: Popcorn is a big one. There's no recommendation for popcorn here. Ai. What do you know that about you or someone to clean our house. So that I don't have to for once, you know, like, just like, you know, hey, you know, I'm gonna get you like three house cleaning sessions.

Well, why

Malcolm Collins: don't you show me how to clean in the way that you like, because you were like, just like physically and mentally incapable of

Simone Collins: it. Dude, it's just like, keep in mind though I think it's, it's part of a lifestyle thing. Like I grew up, when I spent time with my mom, she would clean the house.

And I would hang out with her and she'd be like, this is Borax. This is what we use to scrub the tub and the sink. And like this is like, she [00:09:00] would just walk me through like, all this is cleaning materials. Do you wanna try it? And then like, okay, no, you did it wrong. Okay. No, you did it wrong. Okay. You did it wrong.

And like that's. Like, I don't have a hundred hours to give to you to train you in cleaning. I'm trying to do that for our kids over time.

Malcolm Collins: Oh no. Are you gonna train them into little worker bees to handle your cleaning? I'm

Simone Collins: going to train them how to handle their own housekeeping needs for sure. And like laundry.

But like, I don't think, you know, your parents also didn't clean their own house. They had people do it, and those people certainly wouldn't be willing to like. Also tutor you in house cleaning while also trying to complete their job as quickly as possible. So this is not on you, it is just that like

Malcolm Collins: I appreciate that you could pretend to be grateful,

Simone Collins: but yeah, no, it also says that I should get high end travel gear for my global lifestyle when we've like decided to quit traveling.

So like, I guess I can understand that like in the past you and I were very jet set, but it doesn't know that like now things have changed. The one thing it does suggest is customized educational tools for our children. But I'm [00:10:00] buying them the, like stem kits that it's describing here all the time. Like I just bought one of those Montessori circuit boards.

So you buy,

Malcolm Collins: you just bought one that it's suggesting? Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. No, that was that was what Catherine Boyle from Andreessen Horowitz was like. Suggesting in, in her Twitter, her ex feeded. It's like, this is because I, I've seen them on Amazon all the time. These little, like, they're these Montessori circuit board busy board things for like young kids.

And I always thought this would be so cool. And also my kid is never gonna use this, but she said, if, you know, you know, hours of endless fun. And I'm like, really? Like, is this occupying your 4-year-old? Because if it is, I'm going to get it. Like I've wanted to get it. But I thought no one would actually use it.

So we will actually see,

Malcolm Collins: we will see. I'll tell you what they do use is the little Lego men that we bought a collection. Yeah. They're like a total

Simone Collins: choking hazard for you. Well, and the arms just come off constantly, but toasty last night, spent like hours being like, I will fix it. Which is really cute, so.

Alright.

Malcolm Collins: So now to the second part of this Yes. You know, we're starting by talking about the, the [00:11:00] move from an SEO world to an AI world. Yes. Which is a total transformation in the way you think about your online and public persona.

Simone Collins: And it also makes me nervous because the SEO world, I mean, what I know about it was that it was exploited.

In many ways it was a constant game of cat and mouse that people would, after they understood how it worked, manipulate it, and manipulate search results. Which is one of the reasons why even today search results are not that great. And that's because no matter how hard any search engine will try it, we're not just talking about Google here.

There will be, you know, people will quickly figure out how the algorithm has changed. And they'll game it. It's a lot

Malcolm Collins: harder to manipulate AI in the way that you're thinking of,

Simone Collins: really. I hope. Yeah. Put, put me at ease here. But that is my one concern with

Malcolm Collins: this. The things that AI looks for in articles is how unique the idea is expressed in the article all are and how well structured it is.

Hmm. AI has the ability to tell between low quality, low brain takes, and high quality, high brain takes. I can't tell you the number of times that [00:12:00] ai, like a perplexity or grok when it's referencing a source, references a blog that I have never seen or heard of before, but is fairly well written and well researched.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: It seems to have a, a good ability to tell between sources. The real advantage that you're going to get is to not focus so much on things like Linked Juice and focus more on the volume of the work you're outputting.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But to continue here the, the, what Europe has done, which is really interesting, was ai, is it put into place something called the GDPR which is a system that.

Prevents how much data companies can collect from people was in Europe. To, for what? It changes explicit consent is required. Companies can't use pre-check boxes or bundled consent. They need clear, explicit permission for every single thing. Yeah. So every time

Simone Collins: you go on a website and you have to accept cookies and read a [00:13:00] stupid notice, you can think that GDPR for that.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Data minimization companies can only collect data that is absolutely necessary for this data purposes and no more collecting just in case stuff, purpose limitation. Data can only be used for the specific purposes disclosed when collected. Companies can't rep data without new consent. And then usage restrictions the companies cannot refuse service if you don't wanna give them data.

Easy withdraw. Users must be able to withdraw consent as easily as they gave it. Storage limits companies must delete data that's no longer needed for the original purpose. And then they have cross-border transfer restrictions. And, and, and in terms of fines for this, you can be fined up to 4% of the company's global annual revenue if you violate this.

So really strict fines for this. Yeah. Well also

Simone Collins: this, we're just talking tip of the iceberg with this regulation. I remember. The collective brick that [00:14:00] companies shot when this came out because of just how complicated it was going to be to comply with these rules. It, it's just from a regulatory and efficiency standpoint, it, it makes me so angry, so bad.

Malcolm Collins: But it's created a situation in Europe where. One. Europe basically cannot develop high quality AI models. Yeah. European companies can't. Yeah. And then two what. In terms of content is being produced within the European internet

Simone Collins: is

Malcolm Collins: not accessible to ai. If you are a European individual who is engaged actively with the internet and you're not using a VPN pretending you're in the United States, you will not be remembered by ai.

Simone Collins: Yeah, you

Malcolm Collins: will not be recognized by ai. And this is a very, very big deal when you consider the turning point of human history that we happen to be at [00:15:00] right now. The future of what humanity becomes as we take our manifest destiny among the stars, as AI dramatically changes the direction of human evolution, what it means to be human, what it means to interact in this world as it will is Europe.

And and cumulatively European culture, except for how it's expressed out of the United States and Latin America and Canada.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Is going to be erased from history and it's going to be replaced by. American culture and Chinese culture. What's interesting is that China actually has more restrictive systems in place and more restrictive rules in place around Whatis can take, but the government doesn't enforce it because it doesn't care.

'cause that's the way China works which is, you know, good for Chinese development.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So what is your thoughts on privacy? Before I go into, because I looked up, I was like, [00:16:00] what are the best arguments? Like actually steal man this for 'cause I do not get why people would care so much about privacy. Yeah.

I did this, I did

Simone Collins: this because I, I found it so offensive that people would be so, so intent on protecting their privacy. The argument that convinced me that there is. Any argument to be made in favor of privacy is that okay? Sure. You may have absolutely nothing to hide. Now you may benefit from people knowing more about what you think and all that.

And then someday there's a regime change. See change in culture and government and leadership and laws, and suddenly. You are liable for your views. You are arrested. You are taken away because they have the dirt on you and that is, that is. Now, I mean, when in the age of cancellations, that's something that did happen.

You need

Malcolm Collins: to take responsibility. And I, and I saw this argument as well, Uhhuh there were also arguments that, that, that were compelling there, like freedom to change your, your perspective, freedom to rebrand yourself, freedom to, well, yeah, but

Simone Collins: I mean, I [00:17:00] think people understand that rebranding is possible with a public record.

JD Vance rebranded from an Antit, Trumper to. We didn't, we

Malcolm Collins: were not, we were not pro-Trump the first time he ran, we, yeah, we branded from like progressive prenatal list to tech, right? Yeah. When we got even into the prenatal list movement, we were still left leaning. Like, yeah, we started, it's all about like, Hey, we

Simone Collins: wanna make it

Malcolm Collins: easier for gay couples

Simone Collins: to have gay.

And we still do, to be clear, but like suddenly now we're, yeah, we're super right. Whatever.

Malcolm Collins: We're far right. Activists, as they would saying Oh, yes. Lot extremists. Yes. Right. Winging extremists, right? Winging yes. As, as Hillary Clinton would brand us. But yeah, no, I mean, I, I'm, I this is a thing though.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: I don't think, I think when we live in a world where, you know, that your histories online one, you need to take responsibility for that history, right? Like, yeah, yeah. I need to own it. Before everyone was aware that everything would be online. I can [00:18:00] get that, like, okay, like for example, I did stuff like in my twenties, I would never do today.

But it wasn't because I you know, I. Wouldn't do them. If I knew what I knew about the internet today, it was because I thought that there was this privacy that is not expected today. And that's what I mean by all of this is the illusion. Privacy. Privacy. The illusion of this stuff isn't going on a permanent record.

Everything you do isn't going on. A permanent record leads people to make worse and more dangerous positions. Mm-hmm. From the perspective of political shifts in everything like that, 100%.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah. People who believe that they're private. More often than not have a false sense of security because your devices are recording you ev everything is listening.

There, I mean, even if you don't have any like smart speakers or other devices in your home and your phone is off. There are, there are ways that people can use your own home [00:19:00] wifi to see what room you're in of your house.

Malcolm Collins: It's, well, and they're much more likely to do vile things, to do the death threats we receive all the time, or the, the really bad trolling where their entire goal becomes ruining somebody else's life through an anonymous identity.

Mm-hmm. But here's where people can get to us. They can be like, well, what about pseudonymity? Pseudonymity and people ending up getting docs have been a big part of the new Right. Movement. Yeah. Whether we're talking about, you know, raw egg nationalists or Bronze age pervert or any number of these people.

And I would say, well, as far as I know, there isn't a single well-known pseudonymous right-leaning thinker who wasn't eventually dox. The problem with pseudonym a friend of ours, guy who runs Natal Con, what was it? Kevin Dolan pseudonym. Oh yeah. This is the problem, right? When they're like, oh, what if you have views that go against the establishment, if you have views that go against the establishment and you feel safe sharing them under a pseudonym identity, [00:20:00] that will eventually be docked with in the existing paradigm.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. The

Malcolm Collins: student anonymity on itself is the curse because it leads you to say and do things in a way that you wouldn't. If you knew you had to be publicly accountable, false

Simone Collins: sense of security,

Malcolm Collins: right? It's a false sense of security that ends up putting you in a much worse position. And then you can be like, well, what about laws around the right to be suited?

That doesn't work because then you have to give the government the right to hunt down anyone who's like, Hey, this is this person actually. And that's just like. Too hard to do without putting enormous restrictions on the way companies work.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: Which is really frustrating. Like, I would like it if there was like a good Pseu anonymous system out there that I thought worked, and I could say, okay, I, I am for that, but there isn't.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And then people can say, well, people may not have, you know, out their ideas or try to push the Overton window. And it's like, well, they, they will though, I mean. In terms [00:21:00] of how we actually got the Overton window pushed back to where it was from the extremists controlling much of the narrative.

It required people like you and me being out there in public and in the news regularly. You know, if it had just been a bunch of provocateur accounts online behind Pseu Anonymous identities, that would never have happened because. One of the things about pseudo anonymous identities and their lack of ability to effectively shift Overton windows is it's because they do not care about mainstream judgment.

They are much more open about flaunting mainstream cultural norms mm-hmm. In a way that marginalizes your movement. So if I was operating under a Pseu anonymous identity and trying to. Promote the prenatal list. Cause for example, the prenatal list cause would likely be far more extreme. There's many things I might say under a Pseu anonymous identity that I wouldn't say attached to my regular identity.

Right. And it's like, but [00:22:00] I'm glad that I'm not doing that because my goal is this movement is not to say everything that I think is true. It is to try to move the Overton window so that we can. Have a higher chance of human flourishing in the future of building that intergalactic human empire in the future.

And, and I see this online, there's a lot of pseu anonymous or anonymous, like nobody's will be like, why don't you say this offensive thing? Why don't you say that offensive thing? And it's like, because. That would really damage the movement. Like, like if, if I said that, then somebody's boss would go to them and say, Hey, you called yourself a prenatal list the other day, or you went to Nacon and this guy who has these thoughts is associated with that.

Like, are you really comfortable? Like, I, I don't wanna say anything on here that an educated person working at McKinsey wouldn't be like. Go to their boss and be like, no, I really am against the gender transition of children. No, I [00:23:00] really, you know, am for you know, the, the, the belief that humans have genes and those affect our behavior.

Like every scientific paper argues for that. I really, you know, you, you want us to take the extreme positions because extreme positions, and this is one of the problem with Pseu Anonymous. Content networks and environments is that they create environments where the most extremist positions are the most rewarded with re-engagement.

Take an environment like four chan or something like that where the shock positions are the positions that are most rewarded. Now, you don't wanna be like a Reddit, right, where it's the most normy positions that are the most rewarded. But in the same end, you don't want to be in an environment. Where it's only the most shocking positions that are the most rewarding if your goal as a movement is to move mainstream society and politics.

Simone Collins: Yeah, absolutely.

Malcolm Collins: Another one that they talked about that I saw was interesting is, well, people can [00:24:00] like, like physical safety, like people threaten us all the time, right? Yeah. But then the problem is, is. That, that information always eventually leaks. One of the funny things about having a bunch of friends who are billionaires is a, of people know that like all the billionaires they have like one house that's like their billionaire mansion house, but they don't live in it because it was always leaked long ago.

And then they have like other unassuming houses where they actually like. Party and invite their friends because those houses haven't been leaked. And so the mansion is always empty. And then the, the houses where they live are always like, actually not that particularly grandiose, which is another one of these things that we've talked about.

It's like, it's not that useful to be a billionaire in today's world.

Simone Collins: You know, I think to be fair, some just have very well defended compounds with. Very tall trees or whatever, but

Malcolm Collins: it's hard.

Simone Collins: Big fences. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You know, we keep in mind we live in a world of drones and everything now. Right? Like if somebody wants to fly by your compound and cameras, that can go [00:25:00] very, very far.

If you live in one of these compounds, there's almost always somebody looking through every one of your windows.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Kind of creepy. Well, no, it is creepy, but it's the reality of the situation these days. It just, yeah, you have to expect

Simone Collins: it and it's better to be prepared than to try to avoid something that you really can't control.

That's, to me, a lot more scary. Like with cancer, I'm just assuming I'm going to get cancer and I'm gonna screen early for it and, and hopefully catch it early, being like, wow, I just hope I never get cancer. But never screening for, it seems like a death wish.

Malcolm Collins: Another one you hear is, well, companies are gonna try to manipulate me.

Right. You know, and it's like, are you really like that? Mentally weak? Like yeah, I like that Amazon knows a lot about me so it can give me good recommendations and I don't waste my time. Oh,

Simone Collins: I wanted to know more about me. It. Yeah. It, it could do better. No, I was the same

Malcolm Collins: with Steam. I get annoyed that Steam's game recommendations aren't good enough.

I'm like, you should have know me better. Lot of information on what games I play. [00:26:00] Yeah. Why do you not know that I want more card based and, and, and, and, and turn based tactical games, like mm-hmm. Come on Steam. I'm expecting this of you. I want these indie recommendations. Right. You know? And yeah,

Simone Collins: it's, I think the, the most interesting thing though is just the, the extent to which.

In the future, in a post AI world, you will matter because people will know about you and want to work with you, or they'll have heard about this thing that you build or this service that you provide, and they will want to buy it from you. You, you can't just get by anonymously with, with no. Searchable public profile and expect to find work or to sell the products you're gonna sell.

Talk to me. They're

Malcolm Collins: like, oh, I'm a, you know, work was me and I searched them and I don't find anything. I'm like, I'm not, why would we

Simone Collins: believe you? Yeah. Where's, what's your reputation? Where can I see your work?

Malcolm Collins: This Hass been like a, a, a reporter or [00:27:00] something. Like an undercover reporter. Right? Like that's a huge red flag that you have.

No really deep online persona and, and I just won't work with people like that anymore because, but it just,

Simone Collins: even more importantly though, we, we are, it's, it's already starting. The, I think the CEO of LinkedIn wrote a New York Times op-ed recently about how already the bottom rung of the job market is collapsing.

People on entry level jobs across industries, like whether it's customer service or coding or something else legal, they're not getting jobs anymore because those entry level jobs are being eaten up by ai.

Malcolm Collins: No. And then what's worse is people tried to get around this, like the reason why you could get away with this in the past is you could have proxies.

For competence, which would be, I went to Harvard, I went to Stanford, for example, I got my graduate degree at Stanford. Simone got her graduate degree at Cambridge, right? Like that used to be the proxy. I used to be able to stay quiet about who I was and then [00:28:00] rely on the reputation of the institution. To buoy my reputation.

But now we know that these institutions are like DI infested wokeness. Like you look at Harvard today, and I think Harvard and antisemitism like the two go hand in hand, right? Like these are institutions that are now. Systemically racist. And they really only affirm an individual's willingness to compromise their morality to play within the social hierarchy.

And I think for people of our generation you know, there's gonna be some, and, and people going through them today, there's gonna be some leeway given. But I think in five to 10 years they're just not gonna have the, the poll that they've had historically. Well,

Simone Collins: that and, and. Personal networks this is already falling apart.

As you found out when you went back to Dallas and you saw all the kids that came from wealthy, well connected families that used to, from their culture, expect that because they had this wealthy [00:29:00] family in Dallas, it was well connected and did all this business stuff, that their job would be. Set. They, it would be spoken for, they would be fine.

And then they were finding that like, you know, now these companies are, it doesn't

Malcolm Collins: work. Doesn't it doesn't work. Yeah. No, no, no. Intergenerational nepotism and, and in is is not as effective as it let's historically for people who wonder why it's so ineffective now. So a lot of the systems that intergenerational Nepotist set up to make this stuff work had the passive assumption.

That your family was going to control the company that your family owned or founded or anything like that. Mm-hmm. The problem is, is that these companies all became public and or took private equity

Simone Collins: and got a board and owned Yeah, yeah. There owned by, yeah. There was like one iteration

Malcolm Collins: where like the board would still hire the son.

Right. Like that was seen as Okay, whatever. Like that happened to my dad. Right. Like he was hired to run one of the companies his grandfather founded. By the board, but it was actually because the board was trying to do a coup on his grandfather, right? Mm-hmm. Like, even, even then you had the, [00:30:00] the issue of but they, but they wanted somebody who the grandfather approved of, right?

And the grandfather thought he was too young and, and easily pushed around bull. So like, well, so anyway the, the, the, the, the, you even saw that then. But, but now a board, like somebody going in and being like, promote my son. They'd be like. Look, we might be able to give him some like middling level position with like a grandiose title, but that is at most in his salaries coming out of yours.

Simone Collins: That, yeah. But that, so that was the, that was the pre AI. Crumbling, and this is the pre, now we're in post

Malcolm Collins: ai

Simone Collins: where a lot of people, yeah. So now, you know, it used to be that like maybe a family member could expedite the extent to which your job application was considered at a company or act as a referral and a, a reference.

But now people just aren't hiring in that way at all. And really the one way that you're gonna get hired is if someone's like, Hey, I want the best like designer of this type, you know? Or I want. [00:31:00] You know, the like, oh, that guy that, you know, whose podcast I follow, you know, his takes are really good. And that's who they're gonna hire more unknown online.

This is actually

Malcolm Collins: such a good point, and I wanna elevate it. In the past, if you're trying to maximize your higher ability in the world, right, by like elite organizations or anything like that, what you wanted was when somebody Googles like. Brain computer, because that's my specialty before all this brain computer interface expert.

This is for how you, you, you devices that directly controlled electronics with your thoughts. That's what I worked on before all of this, that was my specialty in neuroscience.

Not like mystically, it was like implants, like Neuralink is a good example. Anyway so, so I would want somebody to Google that and my name to be the first name that appears.

Now what I want is somebody to go to an AI and say, who's the world expert in brain computer interface? And my name is the first that comes up. The way that I achieve each of those two goals [00:32:00] is dramatically different.

Simone Collins: Good point. Yeah. Yeah. If you're writing prolifically about it, if you're the one who's engaging in the online discourse about brain computer interface, grok Perplexity, Claude Chat, GPT, they're going to point to you.

Malcolm Collins: And then there's the secondary part of how power networks form. This is something Brian Chow was talking to us a lot about personally, and I think he's absolutely right about this, is that the new country club is the signal group.

Simone Collins: Oh, that's great. That's a great way of putting it. Well,

Malcolm Collins: no, I mean, country clubs, who are you going or be Hobnobbing was a bunch of old people who have no power anymore.

Yeah. Like all of the old communities that were like the secret societies, you know, whether, you know you're Skull and Bones. You can see our episode on that one totally woke, like it's pointless. It's not useful for hiring anymore. Bohemian Groves, the average age is like 86 now. It's completely, yeah.

There's no point useless. From, from, from a networking perspective. Well, and even your

Simone Collins: dad told me when he was visiting that he waited for 22 years. No, it's a 22 year wait

Malcolm Collins: list. Like, no, and he waited that long [00:33:00] because keep in mind it was an organization like the Bohemian Grove. As you get older the, so if, if, if in one generation.

It's a group of 50 year olds, right? Like, okay, the organization, the average age is 50, right? Well, that means the average person they're trying to induct is gonna be one of their friends who's gonna be 50, but it takes that person 20 years to get in. Now, the average age of the organization isn't 50 anymore.

I. It's 70 and the organization has been around for hundreds of years. So now the average organization is basically the maximum human lifespan, like two years before you die. And that is just not, it's

Simone Collins: like waiting for, it's waiting to become Pope at this point.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it's waiting to become Pope. No one there.

Is, is is going to have like an active ability to sort of affect society at this point. And I think that this is what we're seeing across the board within these different organizations. Now, Simone, you ran, you were managing Director of Dialogue, which is a secret society founded by Peter Taylor and Aaron Hoffman.

And then. For Schmidt [00:34:00] Futures, we put together another secret society which I don't think is still operational. And then we've worked for like Future Forum and some other secret societies in terms of putting them together. So we have insights into a lot of the operational secret society. Well, and well then we also

Simone Collins: know how, at least for a while, like Manifest worked, for example, and like how speakers were selected for that.

I think that what all of those societies had in common, which I think is more representative of what, of what we should expect in a techno futile society. In other words, a post AI society. Is that these were in the end societies that were handpicked as like, these are the people that so and so likes, and they may pretend to have objective metrics for, Hey, this person qualifies and this person doesn't.

But in the end, in all of those, I could point out glaring. Exceptions on both the rejection and exception standpoints.

Malcolm Collins: No, I completely agree. It's, it's, it's, you have to be, so it's, it's, does

Simone Collins: this person like your [00:35:00] content, does this person like you, do they like your online?

Malcolm Collins: I mean like Hereon, which is the other Peter tlc.

Yeah, yeah. Hereon is like,

Simone Collins: Hey, do these people think you're cool? And, and, or like, do their friends recommend them to them? If so, you're in. If not, you're not. And again, like how are you gonna get there point without any sort of reputation. The point

Malcolm Collins: is that if you're talking about a secret society, like say hereon, which is probably the most exclusive like real, like actionable secret society in the world right now.

Most people are, I say to somebody who's supposed to be running the Illuminati. If you go to the book, the Bloodlines of the Illuminati, which is the main book of the Illuminati that came out in the 1980s, it says, my dad is one of the people who runs it. And that I. And his oldest male son, so I should be in it, right?

Like, I am not, maybe

Simone Collins: he does Malcolm, the man loves his privacy. Although I

Malcolm Collins: have had powerful people come to me and say they wanna restart a real illuminati. Can you, can you do this? And I've like drafted like business plans on how to do that. But the, the point I'm making here [00:36:00] is that if you look at something like heretic con nepotism, like these old nepotistic networks mean.

Like almost nothing. Yeah. Unless the parents incorporated you into the content they were producing, which is why No, no. But

Simone Collins: then on your own merit, you have to be cool. If you're just like the lame kid, then no one's gonna wanna invite you. Even if you are so and so's son or daughter or friend or whatever, you have to one, one

Malcolm Collins: exception I can think of.

He, somebody's grandson, a somebody, Milton Friedman's grandson, who is No, he's interesting

Simone Collins: on his own. Right. That doesn't even work.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah. No, they're, what are some, honestly, I can't really think of any, some have, some societies have made exceptions for certain members because they feel that those members who on their own are a major draw.

So one, one bit of calculus it does take place with these societies [00:37:00] that I'm sure will take place in techno fiefdoms as well, is I really need person X to be a part of my fiefdom. I also know that person X may exit in a huff if I don't cave to their insistence. That person Y is accepted. Mm. And so there are instances in these societies of completely lame like.

Women boring? No, not always Women. Not always women. Just boring people being accepted at least on a temporary basis. Actually, this is

Malcolm Collins: a really good point. Sorry. I was just thinking about this. Is it. Men in today's world are often more likely to put pressure on a society to accept someone they want to f than one of their kids.

Fair. Yeah. Which, which, no. And I, I even say it's like more culturally normative, like it's seen as so like the old nepotistic networks at work. But the reason I was saying signal groups matter is like. If I go to like the Dallas Country Club, 'cause when I grew up, that was like a really prestigious thing.

You'd pay tons of money to be a member of it. You, I went

Simone Collins: [00:38:00] there together for, to meet someone for lunch at one point, right? Was, yeah. We met my

Malcolm Collins: grandmother for lunch there. It's really big. That's right. It's outdated. Like nobody importance going to the Dallas Country Club anymore. You know, everyone there is.

Is is sort of irrelevant culturally speaking because that sort of wealth accumulation is just not important within the existing paradigm. This is for people who want to ape or, or pretend like they are successful rather than actually having any influence. And that wasn't the case within previous generations because.

Here's the point. If I'm one of the top, like 0.5% of the population of Dallas, I don't care about networking with the other 0.5% of the population of Dallas. I know this is somebody who was in Dallas as a 0.5 percenter. I care about networking with the 0.5% in Manhattan, in London and LA and New York and the general internet.

Right? You know, and if I'm in the top 0.5% of, of, of Manhattan. I, I need to also know the top influencers in, you know, SF and, and [00:39:00] across the internet if I want to matter, which is why the Signal group has taken over from the and I don't know why it's always Signal, I actually prefer WhatsApp, but Signal is where they, all the fancy groups are.

But that's why the signal group has taken over from the old country club or region locked thing. We actually have some recording. Oh, let's see if we can find it. Where we recorded exploring the old core club in New York that had been abandoned.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah. I can share that with you.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Which is why that was weird.

Speaker 10: That's been taken out.

It.

Speaker 11: Whoa. [00:40:00] I like their curved couches.

Speaker 10: Oh, look, this is where they do the hair.

Speaker 11: They had a salon. Look at this. This is where they, their hair.

Speaker 10: I mean, these haircuts cost like a hundred bucks, 200 bucks. What do you think? Oh,

Speaker 11: like 200. 200, like I would say 180. But then with Tip, you'd probably be paying at least two 30. That's

Speaker 10: well this sort of, you know, who's in Manhattan anymore?

Speaker 11: Yeah.

Speaker 10: I remember how cool I thought this was.

Speaker 11: Yeah, this like bench this, this concept of these social clubs where like luxe people get to hang out. I wonder how long it's gonna last.

Speaker 10: Urban Lux, exploring urban lux. They make people one these deserted pit.

Speaker 11: Well, that's the thing is people don't believe us. When you say like most office buildings a New York are abandoned now. Oh, this is a salon. Oh, look at this. [00:41:00] Oh my god. A full out salon, a full out hair salon. Whoa, cool. , It's such a shame thinking about these gorgeous spaces and this, you know, with demographic collapse, I think the crazy thing is.

Like the, the, the world will be full of these spaces and you think like, oh, great, this will turn into an apartment. This is not gonna turn into an apartment. This is not gonna be used by

Speaker 10: someone. Yeah. The Friar's Club is vacant now too. What?

Speaker 11: No.

Speaker 10: Yeah. It's gonna vacant. Like the sign's even falling apart.

S**t.

Speaker 11: No, look at

Speaker 10: that. Look, look at that. It says vacant right there above the Friar's Club. It's a doesn't a historic place where they used to do these New York, uh, all the famous comedians of the world would go and you'd, uh, have some like secret society thing

Speaker 11: that is fake and. No. So core club fires, fires club,

Speaker 10: all, all the elite don't wanna be here anymore.

They don't have the money anymore. It's what's the point when you can go to the distributed elite things like dialogue or something?

Speaker 11: Yeah. Or like I guess their houses. I feel [00:42:00] like maybe the future hangouts of the elites will just be at each other's sprawling compounds and mansions.

Speaker 10: Well, that's what we do whenever we're hanging out with our elite friends.

They don't wanna be seen in public.

Speaker 11: That's true. So places like Friar's Club Core Club. There too much to maintain.

Speaker 10: By the way, the funny thing about the elite that the non elite don't know is they all have these giant mansions, but publicly, everybody knows where the mansions are and so they're too afraid to go to their mansions.

So if you're actually your, they're, you're they're friend. When they invite you over, you're going to like often an unassuming house in the middle of the city. Um, look at this, my God. Where they actually spend their time, a plan, a living plan. And they just,

Speaker 11: well, I mean, who's gonna take it? Right? Like, I am sure that some staff were like, oh yeah, take this, take that.

But like, what are you gonna do with this stuff? Oh, just another locker room. Um, oh, this must have been the men's locker room. It's like a

Speaker 10: private area for styling yourself.

Speaker 11: Yeah, this is, this must have been the women's locker room. So this [00:43:00] was the vanity. Oh my God. They had multiple vanity rooms. Oh my God. Look at these Vanity.

Oh god. Core club was great. My gosh. This? Yeah. This must be the women's locker room. Wow. So we were in the men's locker room to start. We got the steam room, mini fridge, sauna, and Whoa, whoa. Oh steam room. This is a steam room.

Speaker 10: It's really nice looking

Speaker 11: sauna. Mini fridge, beautiful sinks. Wow.

Nice lockers. God

Speaker 10: fancy showers was like wood.

Speaker 11: Oh, of course. This feels like such a waste. I know. Do you think in the future people will just camp out in these places?

Speaker 10: No, they're gonna fall apart.

Speaker 11: Yeah, all this really nice. And that makes me so the rod of

Speaker 10: New York, you saw in the game, I'm dis designing right now where I'm like, ah, you can't [00:44:00] even stay in the buildings anymore because they're unstable.

Speaker 11: Yeah,

Speaker 7: all right, here we are in the library

bought. I remember back in the day, inflation, I don't dunno what they cost, a pay, but they used to cost like 50 bucks. What? Cost? 50 bucks. Oh, the books. These big books. But now it's probably 120 or something. I don't know.

Speaker 8: I don't know. I wonder if, um, some of these books were from members

Malcolm Collins: yeah, we're a horrible urban explorer. They,

Simone Collins: they moved, I think they, I. I think they probably just downsized. I think they're still around.

Malcolm Collins: Operational around.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But I'm, this is the

Malcolm Collins: group that my mom was a member of, so I have some familiarity with it.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But they were apparently like a big mucky muck thing for a while, and I was like, what?

This is also interesting about board positions is my dad was seeing them as quite like a prestigious thing in his generation. And you remember when I was younger, I wanted them, and then recently I sort of came to the realization of like, board positions don't [00:45:00] matter anymore.

Simone Collins: Well, what they became, I think there was this, this misunderstanding among people was that I could have a career of being on boards that board positions pay.

And yes, it's true, some do. But the vast majority don't. In fact, the, the positions that most people get on when attempting to become career board position holders require you to donate significant amount of money.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Most boards

Simone Collins: are basically, oh, these people are on because they donated a lot of money

Malcolm Collins: to this company.

Well, they wanna feel special. They wanna feel like they have influence and they don't.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And so they're just, they're just donator donors who, get board positions to feel fancy and then they kind of expect, well, okay, I'll just donate a ton to be on all these companies boards, but then other companies will approach me to become a board member because I'm such a prolific board member and therefore my, I must be very good.

And I think that that's the leap that doesn't work. And that leads people to. End up spending a lot of money [00:46:00] on nonprofits that don't necessarily do anything helpful, aside from spend a lot of their money just finding new people to get into the scam. So yeah, it's, it's kind of a, a lame way to spend your time.

Malcolm Collins: Alright, Simone, I, I love you to today. This has been a really interesting topic for me. Do you have any final thoughts

Simone Collins: If you want to have a livelihood in a post, EIH. You need to build an online footprint that is niche, that is distinct, where you're digging into unique talents of yours and where you are at least on the pathway to providing a unique product or service that either your local community will want or that your, like the 1% of the people in their techno fiefdoms will want to buy from you.

Like. Really weird cool art or custom made cabinetry.

Malcolm Collins: So Well you wanna make yourself an AI's [00:47:00] go-to source for some subject.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And like, it can be really specific. Like, one of my, my, my friends from childhood, both of her parents were artists and they were artists by trade. They made their money doing, making art.

But how did they do it? It was because one of them, for example, did masonry. For all the giant mansions in California. Like they wanted custom stone work and he did it. And I think that his work is as foreign as it seemed to me when I was a kid, is way more representative of what we can expect to see.

People making as their livelihoods going forward, plus the locksmith who just came over to our house today. Like that kind of work is also something that I would expect to see. Here's my question for you, Simone.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. What is your thoughts if somebody's like, well, if the AI have access to enough of my work, it can eventually clone me.

And my answer would be, if you're doing that kind of work, you're in trouble. Like,

Simone Collins: yeah, no, and that's, that's a problem when I, when I say stone masonry, I'm talking about something that even it [00:48:00] would be difficult for a, a, a robot to, to physically do because it is, it is a, a vertical integrated process.

You are procuring the stone, you're hauling it over in your truck. You are, you are in installing it, you are moving it around. You are carving it. These are things, you know, you get up a robot or some kind of automated system do components of that. But in the end it's a lot easier for a wealthy person.

Just, just, just talk higher. Okay. Well, so

Malcolm Collins: here's, here's me playing devil's advocate. Okay? Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: In a few years, AI is gonna be able to create episodes of Basecamp. Yeah. With you and I talking and people won't be able to tell it's not us.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Are you worried about that or you think that's a great thing?

Simone Collins: Basecamp isn't our bet on our, our career and our specialty.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Our career and our specialty I think is gonna focus more on. Governance, community building kid education, and especially cultivating a network.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I'm gonna be glad when I can go to an AI and say, make an episode of Basecamp for me. I don't have time today.

Simone Collins: Oh [00:49:00] no. I don't wanna, even if honestly, even if these never got published, I would still

Malcolm Collins: Well, that's good training data. I mean, that's why we do it. Is, is so AI has good training data on us. And we

Simone Collins: also do it 'cause it's fun. This is our, this is our date night. This is our time that we enjoy because. We like talking each other.

You're such a nerd every time you come to you're

Malcolm Collins: just like, excited about AI or excited about the direction the future is going. I'm so excited to have married somebody like you who's not a stick in the mud. And if you wanna check out some of our existing AI projects right now, whistling.ai was a z is an AI system.

Right now it's a web app, so you can put it on your phone or whatever. We're eventually gonna build like standalone devices for it. That allows your kids to talk to their stuffed animals so you can program it to believe it's any stuffed animal, any form factor you want, and then have it bring the conversation back to any educational topic you want.

We've also got using your kid's

Simone Collins: name and understanding their interests. So if you say that your kid really likes Minecraft or Legos or. Bluey or, you know, [00:50:00] butterflies. It, it will also talk about, it's a free

Malcolm Collins: now, just give us feedback. Be like, Hey, the kid liked this, the kid didn't like this. Yeah. We got Pia or the College Institute, whatever you wanna call it.

Easy to find. It is our educational system for older kids. You know, we've got about like 20 or 30 active users every day now, which is really great. And we want more. We're gonna make it cheaper. That's one of the things we're working on right now. And very

Simone Collins: less expensive. It is actually a costly service.

Malcolm Collins: Less expensive. Yes. And then we've also got our fab.ai, which is our final product which is the video game immersive AI world that we're building. And this one, if, if you're interested in sort of exploring immersive worlds that are built by ai get on lists for this. We occasionally release demos at various stages of development.

We did that like a week ago, and then we took it back offline because. The development team was like, I can make this so much better. I don't want it out there, I don't wanna reflecting us right now, and then we'll put it back out. But I, I like that. I like that it's, it's, it's continuing development.

It will be out there more and [00:51:00] more. And I am just really excited for all of these projects that we're involved in in managing, because AI has sort of opened the field to change everything. Like when I look at the whistling system and I give it to our kids, I'm like, why has nobody else made this?

Like, why is everybody else's like AI talkie thing. So dumb. Like why isn't it educational? Why isn't it, why doesn't it let me make it whatever I want it to be? You know? Why is it all controlled?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Apparently. The talk to app that was released by Hailey, whatever her name is, the Hawk two, A woman.

Yeah. Had a soccer coach on it for the longest time, like just weird, weird stuff going on. So, soccer coach. Yeah. Don't ask me why. Like

Malcolm Collins: a

Simone Collins: big soccer coach. Yeah. Like, yeah, like ai, soccer coach, chatbot.

Malcolm Collins: Testing. How do

Simone Collins: I look? You look a little dark, but I know you like a little dark, so I don't know. That's how

Malcolm Collins: I, that's how everybody knows I'm mysterious. [00:52:00] You like it dark.

Simone Collins: You are mysterious.

Speaker 6: The are. Dirt. The invisible bugs are still in there, right? Pretty sure. Yeah. The bugs live on the leaves.

Speaker 4: What do you think? Torsten? Mommy, did you see birds back there? All right, let's keep going. I see a little white spots, so daddy.

In this episode, Malcolm and Simone explore the onset and implications of demographic collapse. From dystopian AI-managed cities to the technological advancements in artificial wombs, the Collinses discuss the possible futures and scenarios we might face in the next 150 years. The conversation includes detailed insights into how collapsing demographics will impact everything from urban infrastructure to social security. By examining current examples from cities like Detroit and nations like China, they predict what life could be like in the coming decades. The couple also outlines practical steps to prepare for a radically changing world economy, including advice on financial diversification, medical self-care, and home security. Whether it’s the bizarre concept of humanoid robots carrying artificial wombs or the perilous future of nationalized healthcare and social security, this episode aims to provide a comprehensive guide to navigating the uncertainties ahead.

Episode Transcript:

Simone Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Malcolm. I'm so excited to be with you today because we are going to talk about what it's actually like to live through demographic collapse, which really matters because. It's already kind of starting. As William Gibson said, the future is here.

It's just not evenly distributed. We're gonna go through the good, the bad, the ugly. And I think we're gonna start off with the weird, like artificial wounds being developed in robot humanoid form. So it's gonna fun.

Malcolm Collins: This is in China, but this is happening and I, I'll argue that it's probably not real. It's 100% almost certainly not real, but still I'm very artificial ones are being developed.

But what I I, the core point of this episode that we're gonna be going over with you guys. Is, what does it actually feel like to live through a demographic collapse, apocalypse scenario? Mm-hmm. What does the world look like in 150 years? And what, and, and keep in mind we're we will be modifying this with what does this look like?

Positive AI timelines in neutral AI timelines because it's a huge modifier on how this plays out is ai. You know, you Yeah. [00:01:00] Although

Simone Collins: in some ways AI, I'm gonna argue is gonna make things worse, faster for people, so, oh, I agree. It

Malcolm Collins: absolutely will. But, but what I mean here is in my AI scenarios was in the original.

Timeline. AI doesn't come online enough to fix everything. And you get a post apocalypse. It'll create some for R Fab AI that, that have this scenario eventually. But anyway this is, this is like. My day SX world, right? Where, you know, our distant descendant 150 years from now is exploring mostly decayed buildings with like a, a slap drone, right?

And cities, you can't even walk in them because they're so dangerous. 'cause things can collapse. What if the AI comes online and decides to keep everything up and running? Right. And so it as a function of just, its, its maintenance function ends up keeping up all the roads in all the cities and you just end up with like eerily empty cities with like a very large in bustling like Orthodox Jewish quarter.

But like everything outside of that is, is, is mostly just empty [00:02:00] policed by AI drones. So you can't go out and like break the law or steal something. That could be the very weird and real future that our distant descendants could be living through. So let's talk about what these different futures could look like.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And since this just came out in the news and we've gotta talk about it because. This is how things are gonna get weird. Probably not through this method, but through others. Yeah. Some Chinese scientist has, has announced that he's going to create a humanoid robot that will gest state humans according to chosen Biz.

An article titled China Develops Pregnancy Robot with Artificial Womb to eight Infertile Couples. It reads, reports have emerged. The world's first pregnancy robot is under development in China. The robot is designed in a human. Human humanoid form and is equipped with an artificial womb in its abdomen, allowing it to carry a fetus for 10 months and give birth.

A prototype is expected to be released next year with a selling price of around one thou 100,000 Yuan, approximately one 19.3 million. Juan. So the, the scientist, sorry,

Malcolm Collins: sorry. Seems to be like for, for, for [00:03:00] context for our audience that's around 14,000 US dollars. Yeah. So like

Simone Collins: this is 100% not gonna happen.

One, it's insane. Like, why would you. Why would you put an artificial womb in a humanoid robot? I mean, one thing that, that, that's really weird is so the, the article also reads, the key to the pregnancy robot is the artificial womb technology where the fetus grows inside the artificial womb filled with amniotic fluid and receives nutrients through a hose.

Dr. Zang noted quote, the artificial wound technology is already in a mature stage and now it needs to be implanted in the robot's abdomen so that a real person and the robot can interact to achieve. Pregnancy, allowing the fetus to grow inside. I don't know if he wants people to have intercourse with the robot.

This is the most fake China thing I have ever seen, ever. It's beyond fake because I mean, if you're developing an artificial loom, really, like from embryo onward, like you are developing something where the, the, the placenta is also growing in there and the way that.

Malcolm Collins: For [00:04:00] context, we have a lot of knowledge about artificial womb development beyond what the art of normal person would, because this is a space we are very interested in potentially very passionate about it investing in.

And we're very passionate about it. And so I am aware of the state of the current technology, and this is like somebody comes out there and is like, I have a phaser, right? It's like.

Speaker 3: I am aware

Malcolm Collins: of the cutting edge technology. You don't have a phaser like we, we, I have teleportation or something, right?

Like, it's like No, you don't have teleportation. Yeah. We are at least I'd say maybe six years away from being able to do this in humans, from my knowledge of the current technology. Yeah. And it's

Simone Collins: not gonna look like a humanoid robot. This reminds me of those, those examples of early AI robots in China where like clearly there was just a person.

He's speaking to a mic also. Oh yeah. There's,

Malcolm Collins: there's this really funny thing. So early in China, they did the thing where they were doing like cutting edge AI at this. They were like, we've done it,

Simone Collins: people we've developed

Malcolm Collins: in, in Singapore. And the person went up to it, the ai and they could converse with it in English and they could converse with it was in the, the Singapore language, [00:05:00] but it couldn't talk in Mandarin, the Chinese language.

This is could only just a person.

Simone Collins: But anyway, that's great. Yeah. But also like the way that it spoke was kind of like, yeah, no. So like while this is totally bunk, one, there will absolutely be artificial wounds fairly soon, and two, China is absolutely gonna get on this kind of tech because it is going to probably be, we would, we would argue the first country that is going to start.

Printing essentially. Sure. Its own citizens. Oh, absolutely. So, so when people

Malcolm Collins: are like, no, China wouldn't do, China would absolute. That's exactly the type of thing China would do. Yeah. Come on guys. So for people who dunno during the one child policy, if you was in certain districts, if you'd go in for like a cold, they'd give you like a forced abortion.

Like why, why wouldn't they do forced inseminations if you go in for a cold or something like that? Right. Like, they, they, they, the, the. Government there when things get bad enough and when they finally recognize it. And keep in mind things are bad there right now. Mm-hmm. They have tried to force people to have more kids through [00:06:00] differential sort of government.

Like it's hard to move up in the government if you don't have at least three kids now.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But it's still super trending in the media constantly. In China. Is, is just sort of stuff that's going viral of people talking about why they can't have three kids, like most recently in this reality TV show this celebrity couple.

Was discussing how well they had originally pledged to only have one child, and then the husband's kinda like, well, I, I kind of like two kids. And the mother's like, listen, like you're not helping me at all. And like sort of this, this conversation that played out publicly on reality tv. And I'm kind of shocked the CCP allowed them to play this rush.

I would not allow this, they, the social media sort of erupted in support of the wife who was like, I'm not having more kids. And in criticism of the husband, like, how dare you say that you want more children, he argued like it would help with his artistic inspiration or something, and his dad died and it made him rethink, you know, the importance of fatherhood and stuff like that.

So constantly, like as much as the government's trying to shift the narrative, it's super not working in. Even mainstream media?

Malcolm Collins: No, it's

Simone Collins: their only

Malcolm Collins: [00:07:00] chance. It's their only chance. But then this becomes really scary because. You can get an entire society where the majority of children are born through artificial wombs under the government,

Simone Collins: and they can also be, they will be able to be genetically modified by this point too.

A scary thing that Malcolm has pointed out that governments may do in the future to not only print their own citizens, but also. Preventive brain drain, because that's also kind of a war that's gonna be taking place between countries, just like they're gonna be fighting over productive taxpayers and productive citizens.

To keep citizens captive, you can make people with certain deficiencies who depend on a very specific chemical compound that only like the CCP can manufacture. And if you don't get your monthly injection or supplement or whatever. You're, you just die, so you can't

Malcolm Collins: leave. Yeah.

So, and I'll know you, people can think that this is like sci-fi or whatever.

I, I need to point out. This technology is being developed. The c CCP has signaled that it wants to get into this technology and even, even though it, it did [00:08:00] arrest that guy who did the genetic editing in the past, the CCP is modifying its stance on a lot of this stuff. Mm-hmm. If you look at sort of what's going on under the hood based on the fertility collapse that they're dealing with right now, like they're having their population, every generation, they're gonna deal with an economic collapse.

Certainly because of this.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And they have the motive means and, and motivation to react to it in this way. Right? Like, or people are like, they would never, they would do that. And if you can't find a way to motivate fertility. Through something other than this or, or genetic selection that leads to better traits instead of just genetic traits.

You are going to lose to Chinese, like Chinese culture, whatever that is. It will be the culture that determines the future of humanity it takes to stars.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And this is why it's extra important for us to build successful societies that support things like bodily autonomy and reproductive choice.

So thi this is the sci-fi element of it. Note,

Malcolm Collins: note here you just said reproductive choice, which to us [00:09:00] means something different. She doesn't mean abortion. She means the ability to do things like embryo screening and augmentation. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Or to not do that if you don't wanna do it. Right, right, right.

Malcolm Collins: Your opinion. Literally do

Simone Collins: choose how you have a family and whether you wanna have a. A family like reproductive choice also means like, Hey, I wanna be a dink couple, and oh, great, okay. The government's not gonna force me to do it. Although I think that China will probably in the future just allow for dinks and like have them die out and tax them to high heaven.

And then just. Print their own humans that are compliant. But anyway, so that's the sci-fi element. I think a really underrated element of demographic labs and is that we can really see it, it's already happened or sort of the same after effects of demographic labs have played out in different regions of the world that allow us to see what it's going to look like already.

Like you can literally fly to these places and physically see what it looks like. And a really great example that we've cited before is Detroit. So Malcolm, I'm gonna send you on WhatsApp. Some images first and before and after. Here's the Michigan Railroad waiting depot. Well, I love that every, many [00:10:00] things that,

Malcolm Collins: what's going to happen as places depopulate is that they're gonna get really cheap, like cheap, cheap housing.

Yeah. Like, oh, finally

Simone Collins: like, we'll have affordable housing. This is gonna be fantastic. Like, no. What happened in Detroit after there was a big exodus of population was that housing. In some ways did become much more affordable. And we do have friends, for example, who moved there and got swanky apartments in like the few areas that got kept up.

But what happened more and more was that places got abandoned and then just no one could afford to maintain them. Because if anyone here who's bought has bought a house like, oh my God, these things are money holes. It costs so much an

Malcolm Collins: episode on this. And I'll put some of the pictures from that episode here where we show that houses in Detroit essentially deteriorated into RU rubble with modern building practices.

Yeah. In around 15 years. Of, of not being used.

Here you have an abandoned group of three normal looking houses in 2011. By 2013, you can see one has already collapsed in on itself, only two years after being abandoned.

2015 you [00:11:00] see there's basically nothing left. 2022, you can see it's as if they were never there. So keep in mind, 2015, that's only four years after these were abandoned. That they are just rubble

Simone Collins: Yeah. I'm sending you another, another picture of the, the Vanity Ballroom Theater. Or, but just ballroom before and after. Wonder. I'm showing you a picture of a classroom in, in Detroit. These are things that were like, you know, built in like the, the fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, sometimes even the nineties that are falling apart.

Here's Cas Technical High School. In Detroit, it you're, what you're seeing is just the face of a building with a bunch of like broken empty windows and it just ruins inside. It's super creepy. Here's the, the house the former house of a wealthy banker. You know, people are building these houses thinking that they're just gonna last forever.

You know, this is my legacy. I'm gonna contract a famous architect for this, which is what was the case with this particular house, which you can see was a once great mansion. Yeah. That is now literally collapsing and it has since been demolished. Here is a [00:12:00] former synagogue. Actually, the Jews all left Detroit kind of around the same time apparently.

And then it got turned into a church and then it got abandoned. Super creepy looking. It, it was not built very long ago. Here, here's a dental office like offices. I mean, already offices are being abandoned. When Malcolm and I go to New York and host parties we do some high rise. You, we

Malcolm Collins: do like a looking through of the old core club offices, which is like a swipe club.

Simone Collins: Yeah, which is in the same building and then in the adjacent buildings, you can look into the opposite. They're just empty and you would, I mean, just like buildings just crumble so quickly, it's, it's terrifying. So that, that's, just to give you a picture of it, what's, what's important for people to be aware of is that it's not like people are gonna move in and be able to afford to pay for maintaining these buildings.

There's a factor, at least in the United States, that's going to accelerate this problem. Sorry,

Malcolm Collins: I need to explain why this happens. 'cause people might not understand why somebody wouldn't pay to upkeep a building. Oh. The reason why you pay and we bought real estate before to upkeep real estate, is because it has a lot of value, right?

[00:13:00] Yeah. It's good, you know, if you're like, I wanna buy a house. In a market where prices and houses are going down, that can seem like a great idea. But then keep in mind, you're spending a lot of money on an asset that's going to decrease in price. Yeah. Nobody buys an asset that they think is gonna decrease in price.

Yeah. Which means that houses. When people are pretty sure the market's gonna go down, it goes all the way down really fast. And this is why your houses in Detroit were selling for a penny. You know, they, they, they become a liability, not an asset.

Simone Collins: This is going to be exacerbated by insurance. So already in a bunch of states in the United States especially ca California and Florida to start though this is already happening in other states too is that insurance companies are going bankrupt and or leaving the state.

And whilst in some cases states like California are trying to create basically state based insurance programs, they're prohibitively expensive. Which means that some people just can't afford insurance or can't get insurance at all on their houses. And this does a couple of things. One. [00:14:00] It makes it impossible for some people to buy houses entirely because many mortgages, the loans that you get to buy a home require you to have home insurance.

They will not give you the loan if your home is not insured. And if you literally cannot get or cannot afford insurance for your home, that means you can't buy the home. So then there's this huge swath of a population that won't be able to buy homes. And then any

Malcolm Collins: home that they would buy at zero value immediately.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So home ownerships are gonna go, go down. The financial stability of families and communities is gonna go down. You know, people are, are, are, are not going to be able to sell their houses because no one can buy them. So we're gonna see. Both, like a lot of people in the United States, their home is their nest egg.

It's their savings. It's like that. They plan on selling it once they become empty nesters and that will fund their retirement and they expect to make, you know, that, that, that the, the price of their house will have appreciated and that that will pay for their retirement, which. Is important because social security's gonna stop working and their pension plans aren't gonna pay anymore.

But what

Malcolm Collins: happens is if the real estate market crashes at the same time as Social security [00:15:00] stops working, and it actually

Simone Collins: probably is. So jumping up to Social Security, at least in the USA the USA is projected to no longer be able to fully cover social security obligations by 2033 to 2034. And already some, like there are neighborhoods in Florida where basically most people have left.

Like they are empty, they're going to become Detroit eyes, you know, like completely crumble because literally people are leaving after floods and hurricanes because they, they don't have insurance and they, they can't pay out of pocket to repair their broken houses. So, already that's starting to happen.

It's gonna happen in more and more places. And at the same time, basically like fewer than 10 years away from now social security's no longer going to be able to. Defund its obligation unless lawmakers intervene to shore up the trust funds or overhaul the program's financing. The way they're most likely gonna do that is just by printing more money and printing more money to fund social security payments is likely going to result in higher inflation.

And this is going to increase everyday costs like food and healthcare. It's going to [00:16:00] reduce the dollars, global purchasing power, and it's gonna destabilize personal and government finances. So, you're also going to see as social, like let's say you're not even old when Social Security dies. You're not even dependent on it.

Suddenly you're paying a hell of a lot more for food, for medical care, for all the stuff that retired people are buying now with money that isn't worth as much. So also, you as a retired person expected to be able to live off your social security check, and you can't because now suddenly medical services cost a lot more, and technically the government's meeting their obligations to you, but.

They're not because you can't afford anything

Malcolm Collins: because the government money's not worth anything. But I've pointed out that the US is one of the best places to be a demographic collapse place out. Yeah. Only because everyone else is gonna be fleeing here. Well, yeah. And you

Simone Collins: have to consider, I mean, already is we one for one thing, A lot is already privatized in the United States, so to a certain extent we're.

Slightly more weaned off the tit of government which is, or tit, do we say tit when we're [00:17:00] talking about breastfeeding? I don't wanna talk about breastfeeding or

Malcolm Collins: tit. I, I understand that, that my mom and my sister-in-law, my, my half sister, not sister-in-law, half sister they got in such a fight about this on an airplane once.

What was the correct word that, that t versus Tet. Are you serious? Yeah. That she called her Tett was her nickname. Think it was Little Tet and Big Tet or something.

Simone Collins: Little tea and big. That is amazing.

Malcolm Collins: I just remember that growing up and hearing that word all the time and knowing the story,

Simone Collins: I think, I think Tet is used in the context of discussing breastfeeding.

So at least when we're weaned off the Tet of government services, for example, NHS people are already super unhappy with wait list times. With the services in general, they're having a lot of trouble. And most recently this is erupted in angry discussions on X because in July the Prime Minister, Kiir Starmer announced that they plan to bring over 300 gauze and children with their parents and provide them with NHS treatment.

Because they're really sick, which, okay, that's really nice. But then people got super mad 'cause they're [00:18:00] like, my 4-year-old has been on a wait list for NHS treatment for five years now, or no, that wouldn't work. But like for years, I, I, I, I saw for years, but it was like for a unreasonable, they,

Malcolm Collins: they brought the godins in and they're like, we're treating the, the, the immigration thing.

Within the next 10, 20 years as fertility rates really become obvious, it's an issue.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: People are gonna freak out way more than they're, if you're like, this is like the height of immigration as like a concern area for society.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: When people realize that they are. Unironically just being replaced by the wealthy.

They are going to freak the F out. You mean replaced by immigrants? No, no, no. That the wealthy is replacing them like that. They're like, oh, we have a problem. There's not enough people having kids. We'll just bring other people into the country to replace you. So a great example of this as a place like Italy, right?

Where I point out that at the current Italian fertility rate, which is 1.18, yeah. There's only gonna be. 20 great-grandchildren for every a hundred Italians. And this is assuming that the numbers don't go down further, which they have done like every year for [00:19:00] the past however many years. They almost certainly are.

Yeah. And then countries at the UN or the W, they'll say, we can fix this with immigration. So either you want to do one of two things with those immigrants, right? Like either you plan to completely erase their birth culture and make them exactly like you, Italian, German, whatever, which is cultural genocide.

Like historically we call that cultural genocide. It's bad.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Or you plan on replacing the existing population. So either you do plan to replace people or you plan to commit cultural genocide. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Speaking of genocide, I actually think this is what many nationalized healthcare services are gonna start to do, which in other words, they're going to do the same thing that Canada has started doing, which is introduce medical assistance and dying.

AKA, the MAID program. So when that was first so in 2023, there were o over 15,000 made cases representing 4.7% of all deaths in Canada. And that was a 15.8% increase over 2022. And. Then a little bit of like year over year growth has slowed, but it is, it is still going up and I feel [00:20:00] like it might just get to the case where basically the NHS and many other government healthcare services, which just can't afford, like, neither have the staff nor the money to pay for people's medical services or just like, well, we'll help you.

Transition out of your life easily. Like at least we'll do that. Well, we're seeing this, was it Mary Harrington on X, which is really funny. This was like a year ago when she said this, but she said imagine signing up for an NHS suicide chances. Or, oh, sorry. Imagine signing up for an n hs suicide.

Chances are you'd either die on the waiting list

Malcolm Collins: that, that on alive.

Simone Collins: Okay. So like a year ago Mary Mary Harrington said, imagine signing up for an NHS. Un alive chances are you'd either die on the waiting list or come out healthier on the other end, which is so true, I believe for that is

Malcolm Collins: is Canada is literally, you should watch our episode of should it be legal for Canada to kill poor people because that's essentially what this has become with a lot of these services.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: With, with the, with the Canada one, with the made one at least, is, is if you are [00:21:00] long-term on a lot of these government services, they basically recommend it to you. Well, they're gonna have to

Simone Collins: because they, they, they, one, they can't afford you like your liability. And so the, the, the best thing, the most responsible thing for them to do is to just try to remove you from their balance sheet.

Malcolm Collins: And other governments have already suggested killing old people. So this happened in Japan where a lot of people freaked out? No,

Simone Collins: no, just, yeah, just one guy was like the honorable thing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But, but what I will say is we are going to see this more and more because people are gonna be like these numbers.

And when you talk about like, what's the timeline for these numbers not working in many European countries we're looking at this timeline not working. Within 10 to 20 years systems are gonna start breaking. So even people are like, what's the timeline on the European system?

Simone Collins: So yeah, basically like, what we're going to see is, is if you are dependent currently on government provided healthcare, you need to start planning on alternate methods. And if you are in a place like the United States and you're dependent on [00:22:00] private healthcare and private insurance, you need to plan on finding alternate sources of medical care.

Because it is going to become unaffordable. So if, if you're on private medical care, it's gonna become unaffordable. Find ways to get like no doctors or train yourself in like self-treatment and know how to source medications. Outside working with a primary care physician get familiar with direct primary care.

I think what we're gonna see is, is probably a shift to direct primary care, which is where you, outside of insurance, outside of anything else, pay a doctor directly. For medical advice, they can prescribe medication and then get really used to finding and or possibly synthesizing and making the medications that you need to survive and hope that you, you know, save, you're gonna end up spending a lot of money just to be able to get lifesaving services.

So we're gonna see, of course, medical breakthroughs, but they're also going to be so unaffordable that like, it kind of doesn't matter. But I think that's, that's something that is really important to, to also think about. So let's, let's go back to what it's like to live. No, [00:23:00]

Malcolm Collins: I wanna talk about what it looks like when social security and stuff like that starts breaking down.

Okay. 'cause we look in and, and some of the European systems, they're actually slated to begin to become financially insolvent was in as little as half a decade. Well, we're,

Simone Collins: we're less than a decade away from our Social security faltering.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So, when you look at these environments, right, what's I, I know you say that they'll just start printing money.

I don't know. We may see them increasing the age of retirement. We may see them that Zo

Simone Collins: Abe did that for Japan.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, there, there's going to be a number of changes to the way these systems work, but how can you, how will that

Simone Collins: happen in the us? Like I could see Japan may be working this out 'cause they can be responsible and honorable, but as you pointed out, you need

Malcolm Collins: boomers to vote for less stuff for themselves.

That's the difference. That's not gonna

Simone Collins: happen. Right. That's just not, and this is why you say that demographic collapse undermines democracy is mm-hmm. When you have a dependency ratio cascade and you get to a point where there are more people. Who are net drains on our tax system who cost more to the government than they bring in voting [00:24:00] than you have people who are net contributors to the tax system and those people who are net drains are not going to vote themselves fewer services.

You know, as far as boomers are concerned, I paid into the system. I did my part, I deserve. What I, you know what I did like so well. They had a

Malcolm Collins: uniquely flourishing economy. No, they don't. Yeah. But they don't

Simone Collins: look at it that way. I mean, and we've had conversations with boomers who were like, no, we're just being totally unfair.

Like they, they're pathologically unable and unwilling to take a hit, so we have to depend that that's not going to happen.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: That's why they're gonna start printing money because again, boomers aren't gonna vote themselves fewer services. And basically what's gonna happen in 20 20, 20 33 to 2035 is that social security, like we're only gonna be able to pay out like 75 to 80% of what people are entitled to, entitled to.

Unless we, we really start like fudging numbers and stuff. We're not gonna cut back like it, it's just expect inflation. I'm, I'm just telling people like, 'cause I wanna want, part of this conversation to be is like, what should you be [00:25:00] preparing for? So like, medically get used to taking care of your own medical stuff and sourcing your own medications and really owning your own medical care.

Financially, you know, prepare to live a lot leaner than you do now because money's gonna cost a lot more in addition to medical care. Once social security starts to falter, you have time to prepare. So in the us, like you have maybe. Seven years in Europe, you have maybe a shorter timeline, but that's something to watch out for.

And, and another thing that I wanna point out is just how, like, so I think some governments are gonna try to assist with housing. I wanna show you, here's some photos on WhatsApp that I'm sending to you that you can put on. The thing of this is a gated community in South Africa. And this is the Soweto Township that, that we had toured with your family.

And here's the school that we visited in the Soweto Township.

Malcolm Collins: So these are pictures we took?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well not Not the gated community. 'cause we didn't see the fancy stuff in Johannesburg. We went to the Soto Ghe.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Simone Collins: By the [00:26:00] way, here are the backpacks. That were at the kids' school in the Soto Township, which makes me feel excited.

Malcolm Collins: It looks like Walmart.

Simone Collins: Well, no, but it's like, everyone gives us shame for like not having like a branded kids' backpack for our son who's in, he's going into the first grade. 'cause we just. You know how like they give away really nice backpacks at conferences? Yeah. So we give one of those, like, it's a really nice backpack, but it's clearly from a conference.

And like everyone else is coming with their like Elsa backpack. And even in sota it's like all branded kid backpacks. And I'm like, oh God, I'm in the worst parent ever. Even in the slums out of like outside of Japan town, s**t. Yeah. But anyway, so like what's going on in these townships? Because even after apartheid, even after all these attempts to like, okay, well the government's gonna step in, the government will provide, because I think we're gonna see a lot of that too.

I mean, we're seeing this with mom, Donny in New York, all this like, well, okay, we have to start fixing that. Well, this is what it looks like when a government is like, oh, we'll provide you with housing. We'll fix this. No, the townships in [00:27:00] South Africa, often don't have electricity or running water. These are are houses that many people have just built on their own.

They, they are not nice. And then meanwhile, there, there are ways that the wealthy people in South Africa have found around the weird property ownership laws in South Africa to have these gated communities. And I, I fell down this rabbit hole today of all the random weird services and types of gates that you should be buying.

In in South Africa and the kind of private security that you could be getting. For example, you know how like a DT is like a home security company in the United States as well? Yeah. So here is fidelity, a DT in South Africa. I'm sending you some pictures of the dudes that will come out. Oh my God.

And then looking

Malcolm Collins: like a Rainbow Six game or something. They're, they're like,

Simone Collins: they're like a, a SWAT team, you know, that just comes and shoots the bad guys who inevitably are coming to your house. What has happened in South Africa because they're the government much earlier than ours. Has been unable to provide security that is reliable.

Is now basically you as a private citizen are paying a DT Fidelity. [00:28:00] Here's the plug. They're not a sponsor of this podcast, but they can be if they want to. I would. I'll totally take a private security sponsorship. But like people are gonna now feel obligated to pay for private security. Because when they call the police, the police won't come.

And as much as you might be like, oh, well, whatever, that's like a South Africa thing. Like they're having all these problems. No. Like police departments are already not working in the USA. So just, just for like a little perspective, about 44 to 47% of the New York police departments total annual costs go toward pension debt and benefits.

So, only like 53 to 56 currently supports active operations. So basically half of the NYPD is on, on like not providing services. They, they could barely pay for what they have. Mm-hmm. Our closest city in Philadelphia, the department is about 20% short of its full officer commitment. This is down 1,200 officers from s.

6,380. Okay. You should look at our,

Malcolm Collins: our thing on the, the, [00:29:00] the, the closed crime rate. We have an episode on this where it's gone down dramatically where many crimes just aren't even being pursued in the United

Simone Collins: States.

So to just give you some quick numbers on this, , violent climb clearance rates went from 48.1% in 2013 to 36.7% in 2022, a drop of 24% property climb clearance rates, including ses and burglaries, dropped from 19.7% in 2013 to 12.1% in 2022, a decline of 39%, so it dropped from 19.7%. To 12.1%. So we're only saving about one in 10 thefts and burglaries being solved anymore.

, Thefts and homicides rates have plummeted from around 91% in 1965 to around 50% in 2022.

Simone Collins: Yeah. You'll see why. Yeah, because this is, so, this particular in Philadelphia, it's impacting 9 1 1 response and cold case investigations, cold case.

Of course. This like, we

Malcolm Collins: are in the middle of an apocalypse right now. I wanna, I wanna make that clear to [00:30:00] people like it is happening in slow motion, but it is here already.

Simone Collins: Yeah. In Oakland, California, which is right next to the town where I grew up in, in California right across, across the little water I grew up in Alameda.

It, it is, their police department is very understaffed. It's dropped from more than 800 sworn officers to 678, possibly lower if they cut more costs. 'cause they kind of have to. So basically there's overspending on overtime because there's high demand. And they, they're likely to just not be able to respond anymore in Los Angeles.

Also, they're facing a yearly, $1 billion budget shortfall. They may la lay off 1,600 employees with about a quarter from l la. PD civilian roles like crime scene, photography and cybersecurity. So like, you know, good luck getting anything solved. And, and also it's not just big cities, they're also small towns.

And this is where it's gonna start first actually. So there are places like Morris, Minnesota and Washburn, Illinois where shortages have forced entire departments just disband. They're like, oh, like sorry guys. We don't [00:31:00] have a police department anymore. So these localities are now reliant on county sheriffs.

Good hue. Minnesota lost its entire force after the police chief and officers just, just resigned due to inadequate pay and benefits. So they're just like, yeah, yeah, it's not worth it anymore. So again, like get ready for a DB Fidelity and please sponsorships for private security are welcome to welcome to reach out to Basecamp because that's what's gonna happen.

So also. I think investing in home defense, in home security systems and better fencing, all these things like you, you actually need to think about these things aside from just a recreational prepper standpoint. Now it's more like if you think police departments are taking care of you you're, you're probably wrong.

And then there's all these sort of like underrated under the surface issues like food safety

Malcolm Collins: that are just gonna, this. The point I think that she's making here is the cra like. People think this is an intergenerational issue. Mm-hmm. M

Speaker 3: here. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Depending

Malcolm Collins: on where you live in the world

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: [00:32:00] Within your lifetime, systems are going to start to crack. Yeah. Within your lifetime, you're going to need to arm yourself and you can

Simone Collins: already go to places in the world to like field trip experience it. For example, yeah. We, we used to spend half our time living in Lima, Peru and. Pretty much every time I go, even the last time I went, like last year or two years ago in 2024, no, last year.

So last year there was a, there was just a power outage. I was in the most expensive part of the most expensive city, in the most expensive hotel, or like I was in the Marriott. There just lost power. Just they didn't have a backup generator, I guess. They're just like, oh, we don't have power right now.

Remember the whole, like for days at a time, there would be no water. They're just like, ah, water's off right now. Like, no water today. Yeah, no. Like this was just, it's a regular thing and you know, they're not falling apart yet. You know, brownouts and blackouts are also super common in South Africa to the point where these nice walled garden.

Housing developments have [00:33:00] backup generators in addition to their private security and everything. And that is where the wealthy are gonna go live. They're gonna go piece out. And whether or not governments have rules about how much they can like go off and live in their walled gardens, they're gonna find a way to make it work.

Like it. They're gonna do it and you're gonna be left behind. And, and already there are several US states. We're not just talking Peru that are experiencing not infrequent blackouts and brownouts. California and Texas are the most. Prevalent examples. A lot of the, the, these problems, and the same with insurance.

It's due to kind of global climate change related things like wildfires and hurricanes and things like that. Fortunately

Malcolm Collins: in Pennsylvania, we've been expanding our nuclear plants recently. Well, thank

Simone Collins: God, but get ready because also there's a lot of AI infrastructure development that is being discussed in Pennsylvania, so AI infrastructure.

Yeah. So several areas in the United States are now being directly affected by power demands of AI data centers which also affects water your availability of clean water because they're using. Literally potable water to [00:34:00] Cool. Not ours. We have a, well, I know, thank God. But all, I mean, like, it could, it could drain groundwater, it could, it could drain aquifers.

I don't think that we're pulling from a major aquifer, but still. So the growth and clustering of the facilities, it's putting substantial strain already. And you can go and watch YouTube videos on like communities that been, have been affected by AI data centers already. It's putting a lot of.

Strain on power grids, and this is causing both grid stability issues, so blackouts and brownouts, but also increased electricity costs. So not only does food cost more and medical it, it's also gonna be your electricity costs. So, in this is already an issue in Northern Virginia and Eastern Oregon and Central Wa Washington in, in Phoenix, Arizona, Texas, and California and Pennsylvania.

Is kind of next in line for this. And nationally, the US Department of Energy and Independent Grid Monitors have warned that the current system is not equipped to handle the boom in AI related power without rapid upgrades. Oh God. Also, like no one's [00:35:00] incentivized to, I love a world where humans live in poverty and AI get all the water and power.

No, but that's, that's actually what's gonna happen as, as the AI sector is. Celebrates more communities are going to be impacted by the surge in demand, and the AI companies are gonna have the resources and the lobbyists and everything else to, to demand that power water. What I, what

Malcolm Collins: I love is, is all of these, like trans people in the tech sector, they already dress like they're in the capital and the Hunger games you know, not contributing to the future of humanity just dedicating to consolidating wealth around themselves in this one generation.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, but what I want people to take away from this is. You need to be prepared with things Like who? Things like backup generators, maybe like, much more suspending. I dunno, I don't even think

Malcolm Collins: they need to be prepared. I'm, I think you're wrong about this. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be honest. Okay.

Simone Collins: Why?

Malcolm Collins: Because the price of a lot of these things is gonna fluctuate so much. I, I guess you should be prepared. Should we be getting one of those every year we talk about getting a big solar

Simone Collins: Generator. We have, we have. I mean, we should get more, we should get more solar [00:36:00] panels, but already, they're already in my Faraday box up in the app.

Oh,

Malcolm Collins: we got the solar one and you put it in solar box. Yeah,

Simone Collins: we got them on prime Day last year. That was my last like pregnancy prepping thing. We should probably every time that there's like, well, we should, I'll put it on my Black Friday list to get more solar panels. But yeah, no, I think. There are two things you should be doing.

One is you need to rapidly decrease the amount of like your burn. I think that's a really big thing. I mean, having massive saving reserves in dollars is probably not the safest thing to do, so I would diversify where your money is held, like summon us, like this is not financial advice. We are not.

Giving you financial advice. But what we're doing is trying to diversify where our money is. We don't want it all sitting in dollars 'cause we know that people are gonna start devaluing the United States dollar. So maybe, you know, we have a little bit in crypto, we have a little bit in real estate that we think is going to stay productive that we would actively rent out.

We have a little bit in, the stock market, a lot of it in the stock market, like, you know, in, in s and p 500 index funds. [00:37:00] But like, think about where your money is, knowing what is going to happen, and also think about things like security, energy independence food sustainability and, and all these things because.

Again, the future is here, is just not evenly distributed. We're gonna see blackouts, we're gonna see brownouts, pe. People in California are experiencing them. People in Texas and Florida are experiencing them. They're experiencing rapid drops in housing prices because insurance companies are fleeing and people can't get mortgages anymore.

Well, yeah, this is, this is happening now. And you need to expect it to happen and adjust your life accordingly. This doesn't mean that the future isn't bright and that you don't get to own the future, because this is one of those periods of rapid disruption where the people who play their cards, right.

Malcolm Collins: Just play your cards. Right. And you win the entire civilizational game. Right? Yeah. You know, that, that is what happen, isn't a bad thing. You can create high fertility, high technology families. Yeah. Real reality. Yeah. It's just like a choke

Simone Collins: point in, in, in a, in in humanity.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. We're at a choke point in human history.

Yeah. And those that play it, inly will [00:38:00] not exist in the future. And I, I, I really mean this, like these influencers and stuff like this who have no kids, no wife, and they're like 35 or whatever. It's like they're not actually gonna, if they're giving you advice, they're not gonna exist in the future, right?

Simone Collins: Well give advice from people who are living the life you wanna live. If we're not living the life you wanna live, don't take advice from us. But also, I think a lot of people are assuming that the world is gonna continue as it is, is for them, right? We.

Malcolm Collins: We, this is the thing. Collapses have been faster.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And, and suppose AI starts replacing people then it gets harder when you talk about something like being able to put a human in you know, like a, a, a completely AI automated environment. Right? Like, suppose we get. UBI all over the globe. Right? Yeah. And AI does everything for us. Yeah. Or at least regionally, which is the way I really expect it.

Yeah. I think we might get UBI in like China and the US and then nobody else gets it because our AI companies are being taxed and making money and nobody else has. The AI companies and the AI can easily really replace workers. Yeah. But even in these [00:39:00] environments well, but I,

Simone Collins: I, I mean, I point out that like, I think in South Africa.

They, they kind of promised UBI They promised free housing to people. Yeah, they did. They said, oh, you have, they just couldn't deliver. Yeah. And that's again, like, think of the pictures that I, I shared of the Soweto Township. Like this is what UBI looks like and massive unemployment. You know, children in these schools, I mean, and they did like the school we visited.

Those kids were so cool. The teachers are awesome. Like people are amazing and resilient and like, people are gonna make it work, but it ain't gonna be pretty. And I want you to plan for it.

Malcolm Collins: Well. As things begin to deteriorate, right? Like as governments begin to become unstable, you are going to get a lot of political movements.

I think that's one of the things that people dunno here which is basically just give us the money. Political movements, we don't wanna work. Like the urban Monoculture is incredibly entitled.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Why else do you think Mom, Don, mom, Donnie is, is. I can't. And then

Malcolm Collins: Europe is, and, and, and actually this is something I can say with some degree of, I think a lot of Europe is gonna look like [00:40:00] South Africa within the next 25 years.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And I mean, the scary thing is, you know, again, you can have a great life in South Africa. We've met people who are like, yeah, I'm excited to move back to South Africa. Like, you know, I, I, I have a place that's great, you know, that was in these skating communities spoon, whatever. However, the problem is that like.

It's gonna be harder if you don't have the money for that now to get the money. Oh, do you have the a BA therapist coming today? Yeah, I've gotta run. Bye. Love you. I love you too. Do you want teriyaki chicken with pineapple and rice or do you want curry with rice?

Malcolm Collins: Let's do curry with rice. Okay.

Simone Collins: I love you.

Malcolm Collins: Love you.

Simone Collins: Oh dear.

I'm so out of it. I'm barely conscious. Okay, ready?

A

can you sing? What? What about your other [00:41:00] voice? What was that other way you were singing? Do you were singing like, do a dear, can you do that?

A

Oh, now you're getting all sweet again. I see how it goes.

In this episode of Based Camp, Simone and Malcolm Collins dive deep into the realities of living with disabilities—both visible and invisible. They challenge the mainstream narratives around disability, self-diagnosis, and identity, sharing personal stories about dyslexia, autism, ADHD, and more. The conversation covers the evolution of what society considers a "disability," the dangers of over-identification, the impact of self-diagnosis, and practical advice for thriving with differences. Whether you’re disabled, neurodivergent, or just curious, this episode offers a candid, sometimes controversial, and always insightful look at what it really means to be “disabled” in today’s world.

Episode Transcript:

Simone Collins (2): [00:00:00] I don't know. Every time I hear someone talk about their disability, I just think of that IT Crowd episode.

Moss: You are disabled. What? Why not? You're not disabled. You're getting in trouble. . It's illegal. I don't think so.

Hello? Hello. You are right now. Um, do you need help? I'm disabled. Move back. What are you doing? Don't panic from the dog. What? No.

So, uh, what happened? I'm disabled. How, how, what? Yeah. How are you disabled? Uh, they're disabled. Wait, I'm being. Do you have a [00:01:00] wheelchair? Yes. Yeah.

Stolen.

Simone Collins (2): And the scene of him being lifted down from a bus very slowly in his wheelchair, looking so humiliated and embarrassed and like feeble, attempting to look feeble. It's the best. That is, that is what being disabled is.

Would you like to know more?

Simone Collins (2): Hello Malcolm. It's so exciting to be speaking with you today because we are both disabled, but we're not disabled the way you would think that it's to say we don't identify with it. A lot of people have asked us to talk about this because. They too have various diagnoses and they wanna know how to, well, what you said

Malcolm Collins: is stop being retarded about being retarded.

Simone Collins (2): That's the problem. Yes. People are being way too retarded about being disabled, and I think that we should talk about the right way to dis disabilities. Well, because they're

Malcolm Collins: engaging with, in our society, teaches them to [00:02:00] engage with a disability in a way that is really, really. Destructive. Yeah. And where this came up in one of our episodes is I was reading about Gavin Newsom.

And Gavin Newsom had this sob story about how difficult it was to grow up with dyslexia. Oh. And when I was reading it, I was like, I just, you know, his learning disability and everything like that, it just sort of occurred to me, and it hasn't occurred to me in, in maybe half a decade that I have dyslexia.

And,

Simone Collins (2): and then that prompted people to say, okay, well I have dyslexia and I struggle with it. How did you overcome it? And someone else wanted to know, well, what's, because you called it a learning inconvenience, not a learning disability. And they're like, well, what's the difference between a learning inconvenience

Malcolm Collins: and a learning disability?

Like literally Simone and you, and you can back this up. When was the last time you think I have mentioned having dyslexia to you or anyone before that episode

Simone Collins (2): and I'm, I mean I think you'd mentioned having it like once or twice

like, it was only one of those things of like, it didn't matter to you and it, it, it didn't affect [00:03:00] your life.

And yet, you know, we have good friends who've gone to like a. Disability camps for dyslexia only. Literally, literally

Malcolm Collins: the only time. And, and Simone is diagnosed with autism, right? So again, like this is something, the only time I remember it mattering in my entire life was trying to remember the difference between a B and a D which I severely struggled with.

But other than that, it was completely irrelevant throughout the rest of my life. People think that

Simone Collins (2): your mispronunciations are a result of your dyslexia.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I, I, I was diagnosed by psychol psychologists about this, and one of the reasons why when somebody's like, what's the difference between a learning and convenience and a learning disability, I suppose as somebody who has a plethora of bows it's, it's how much it actually ended up impacting my life.

The, the yeah. One that hit me the most growing up by far the most much more than likely Simone's autism, or I would think even, you know, like having one arm or something like that, is I have dysgraphia. Oh. Which means I cannot hand write. So I cannot, and Simone made jokes about this when we [00:04:00] were dating and stuff like that, said I'd come home and I give her a.

A writing or something and she'd go over and she'd be like, Malcolm, like, did you, what was it you thought that I had like tutored up?

Simone Collins (2): Yeah. So Malcolm comes home and he leaves on the table this like drawing and a little bit of writing and it's like this, this like stick figure of a man and drawing that like literally looks like a first grader did it.

If I can find, I think I took a photo of it. If I can find it, I, I've gotta put it up and I put it on the fridge and I was like, oh man. Like at, at the Stanford Business School, they must have some done, some kind of big brother, little brother like thing, you know where the, they brought in kids and you talked with them about business.

Speaker 2: You're like, oh, you put that on the fridge? And I'm like, yeah. Like, who were you working with? And you're like, I did that.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And so I going back to when you first learned to write in school, I had to use something and only people who like, have disabilities would know about this, called an Alpha Smart never heard this.

So they don't want you to be able to use spell check or any computer [00:05:00] augmented things to help you write. But because you can't hand write, they need to give you something to write with. And so it's a simple computer that can only write strings of texts. And then you plug it into, so it's like a typewriter?

Simone Collins (2): It's basically a typewriter, but digital.

Malcolm Collins: It's like a digital typewriter. Yeah. Okay. And so that's what I would use for everything in classes and everything like that. Wow. And I was also incredibly slow at writing as well, which also really, and this is the other thing like. That's so crazy 'cause you've written five books.

There are things that didn't impact me as much as, the reason I call dyslexia Learning Inconvenience is there is just random genetic variation that impacted me dramatically more. Like, for example, I am terrible at languages. I took Spanish because I grew up in. Right. I, I lived in Spanish speaking countries at times as a kid, and because I live in Texas, you take Spanish every year from kindergarten.

I didn't pass Spanish one. That is your first year of Spanish until my junior to senior year in high school. That meant [00:06:00] I failed Spanish. Every single year of my formal education. No, you're like literally

Simone Collins (2): a language retard. Like literally you are retarded. I'm literally a language retarded.

Speaker 6: Now who can tell me what famous person wrote the Declaration of Independence? Let's see. Oh, I know. How about the new student, Timmy, Tim? No, it wasn't you. Timmy. Try again. Timmy. Did you not do your homework? Come. Uh, Mr. Garrison, haven't you figured it out? Timmy's retarded. Don't call people names Stanley, but he is now.

Timmy, you need to work on your study skills. Are you mocking me? Because if you are, I have no problem sending your butt to the principal's office. That dumb.

Simone Collins (2): Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Now that is not something I am diagnosed with.

That impacted me dramatically more than dyslexia. Another thing. Well, but that's

Simone Collins (2): the thing, and like a big point here though, is that this, the definition of disability has much more to do with what makes you. Non-compliant or non-functional in [00:07:00] some way within a typical environment. And because your typical environment doesn't involve you needing to be bilingual, that in itself doesn't come up as a disability.

I

Malcolm Collins: actually disagree with this very strongly, really. So I was about to mention the second thing that has impacted me way more than dyslexia. Yeah. The second thing that's impacted me way more than dyslexia is that I am a very slow writer and sort of processor of information thinker more broadly.

Yeah, I just think very slowly. And what this means is that in class. I, I, I couldn't take notes. So what I'd always do is for every single class that I did in college, I recorded it on a recorder. Then I went back to my room and I played it and slow speed and typed it out. Wow. And then I went over that and memorized that.

The amount of, now this is not a, this is something everybody has to do, and it wasn't due to any recognized disability. No, no,

Simone Collins (2): no. I disagree because in college, one of the ways that I made money. And this was, the school paid me to do this was there were students who had exactly the same problem, and I took notes for [00:08:00] them.

Malcolm Collins: I know the school offered that to me, but I, I didn't find then it's clearly

Simone Collins (2): a recognized disability, and it is because we live in a fast-paced world that this was not

Malcolm Collins: I, well, it's a diagnosed disability. You know, the point here is it's not a diagnosed disability. Mm-hmm. And the, the, the point is also with your autism, it's not even just the disabilities 'cause your autism is clearly like a labeled disability, but it has pretty much only helped you in life outside of maybe not picking up on social cues and almost getting griped or something because of that.

But I think outside of not knowing how to flirt. But knowing how to flirt with the type of guy having a terrible game wanted. Anyway, I'll let you continue from here, but I wanted to go on that sort of side tangent because that's what brought all this up. Mm-hmm. And I think that in our society we have these, these words for like specific like a DD or something like that.

A DD is not a learning disability. A DD is not an important part of who you are as a person. It is going to impact your daily life less. [00:09:00] Than random genetic variations in terms of how you learn or your happiness set point or your, it's almost like people think because we have named specific random genetic variations that really aren't that particularly impactful in an individual's daily life that we now need to elevate them.

To like a part of your identity because we ripped out everything else about people's identity. We say, oh, you can't identify with your birth culture, you can't identify with your parents, you can't identify with your ethnicity. And so if you can't identify with anything, any of your history, it's the last

Simone Collins (2): along with being gay, whatever bi it's the last form of white pride

Malcolm Collins: and your disabilities are, that's all you are at this point.

And this is really psychologically harmful because then you, you lean into this stuff. Yeah.

Simone Collins (2): And I'm gonna argue that actually. Yeah, go ahead. Identifying with A DHD is incredibly damaging. 'Cause I don't think you've watched a lot of A DHD influencers and seeing the extent to which their identification with the disorder makes them really [00:10:00] non-functional.

It is insane.

Malcolm Collins: I I, I, I mean, I know how I'm handling a DD with my kids and I'll put the, the South Spark

Speaker: Hello, I'm Dr. Richard Shea here to tell you about my exciting new drug-free treatment for children with Attention Deficit Disorder. This treatment is fast and effective and doesn't use harmful drugs. Watch closely as I apply treatment to the first child

Speaker 3: I watch.

Speaker 4: Sit down and.

Stop crying. Do your schoolwork.

Speaker: If you would like more information on my bold new treatments, please send away for this free brochure entitled, you can either calm down or I can pop you in the mouth again. Thank you.

Simone Collins (2): yes, exactly that. But I'm first gonna gonna push back on. Your argument that disabilities aren't really just a, a, a, a declaration of societal norms and what you need in order to be functional [00:11:00] and mainstream society, because you have to consider what was considered a disability in even recent history.

Like same sex attraction, which was classified as a mental disorder in 1952 and only removed as such in 1973. Do you know what else was considered a disability, which I have. Left-handedness. That was a disability. Really? Yes, it was. Okay. Also, PMS, which was also known as hysteria or neuro senia.

Oh, right. Masturbation everyone's favorite thing to do online. That was a disability, what it was a symptom of, of nervous diseases and insanity in 19th and early 20th century. Yeah. So also guess what? Shyness, introversion. That, that was formally described as neuro as well. So I guess they just grouped it with PMS.

Okay. And social neurosis or inadequate personality disorder. Inadequate personality. Inadequate personality in personality disorder. [00:12:00] Shyness. Malcolm Shyness Because being shy in history made you non-compliant with the rest of society. And now it. You can be functional and shy at the same time, given the way our economy and school and everything else is set up.

But yeah, it was absolutely seen as a disorder. Also grief, although I'm kind of with them on this, they called it pathological grief. It was once considered that like any grief landed lasting longer than like a few weeks or months was a disorder. And I, I'm, I'm with them on that. Really? Yeah. But like, yeah, they were like, dude, you're, you're too sad.

Something's wrong with you. Like, get over it.

Malcolm Collins: Smile. I wish we, I wish we could have grief as a, as a disorder. So I That everyone bring it back. Bring it back. We could bring back grief. Yeah.

Simone Collins (2): Yeah. But, and now the, the way that, that disabilities are, are diagnosed is, is also really. Weird and different.

And, and what seems to have been the catalyst for this change was the Americans with Disabilities Act in the United States, at least in the [00:13:00] 1990s. And then the A DA Amendments Act in 2008, which is just an expansion of that which basically expanded the definition to include invisible disabilities like learning disabilities, mental health disorders, chronic conditions so like PTSD.

Or bipolar disorder or anxiety or depression. These things weren't really seen as disorders in the past that would get you special privileges, and now often they are. But I still think that can we

Malcolm Collins: diagnose menstruation as a disability? Like,

Simone Collins (2): I mean yeah, if, if you look even back like further and it's like, well, let's remove you from, you go, go to the menstruation hut.

The

Malcolm Collins: administration, they, they had those by the way, that was like a common thing in, in like,

Simone Collins (2): I mean, and, and some women even today I think wish it were classified as a disability. I mean, you see it like in school. There's the girls who are like, I'm on my period. And I think that means they get to like do nothing.

Yeah. Like girl that I have, but Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. No, I agree. That disabilities change over time, right? Mm-hmm. [00:14:00] Based on social norms.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Would you disagree? I was wondering now what, what, what sort of correlates with the disabilities today? Because like, you wouldn't say like grief, but then people can be like, well, depression, right?

Like Yeah. You wouldn't say like, it's weird to me actually that a DD is considered a disability today. Yeah. Because it, it seems like such a trivial thing.

Simone Collins (2): But it, I mean, it isn't because. Typically where this shows up, you know, when people are in institutional environments is like both in jobs and in school.

You are supposed to sit down. Sit still and do a job and not switch around a billion times. Like you have to do the job and finish the job and then do the next job and finish the next job. And people with, with a DD or a DHD struggled to do that. Therefore, they're non-compliant with today's society. I mean, here's, here's one way you can look at it.

You had heard someone identif or describe autism as like, most people are just normal cars. They can just drive on normal [00:15:00] roads and autistic people are like NASCAR cars or like really like fine tuned race cars. And like on any normal like environment, they're gonna break down constantly. They do not work on normal roads.

You can not drive them off road, but like on very specific types of tracks, they are amazing. And I, I really feel like that's apt not just with autism. With any sort of mental disorder in general, it's really more a description of the road. Yeah. And I think that in, in some environments, for example, like, okay, so, you know, introversion was seen as a disability for a while, but I think that in some environments.

Introversion is like the most adaptive thing. Like if you're like on a spaceship traveling in a highly isolated environment for years on end, introversions,

Malcolm Collins: that's, that's true of autism in a modern context. So 100% autism that Simone has is very similar to what we were talking about there.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And she needs very controlled environments to be productive.

But when she is productive, she's much [00:16:00] more productive than other people. Yes. And she can work much longer hours than other people and work straight. Much longer hours. By the way, one of the reasons when people are like, Malcolm, you talk a lot of terrible stuff about a DDI was diagnosed with a D.

That's why I. That's why I, I, I'm like, this is of all of the disabilities that I have, by far the most trivial you know, growing up. Yeah. So I don't, I don't take it seriously. I was, God, I'm trying to think of other things. I was diagnosed with bipolar. That one I don't believe I ever had.

Simone Collins (2): I think that was made up. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But I was diagnosed with it at one point. I, I think that that was because my mom was bipolar. So from a bipolar person's perspective, my mood was constantly varying. But my actual mood wasn't constantly varying. It was hers, it was interest when she reported her subjective experience of my mood Yeah.

To psychotherapists. They thought, oh, it's him because you've lived with me. Do I have fluctuating moods?

Simone Collins (2): No. No. You don't?

Malcolm Collins: No. Okay.

Simone Collins (2): No, I mean, I, I think that like someone who has not encountered you before [00:17:00] might guess that you are manic. Yeah, but like you're, you're only just all, always by their definition,

Malcolm Collins: they're called hypomania, by the way, to be always a little manic.

There is a, sorry, hypomania is slightly below true mania, but there's a form of, I forgot where you're just like, only hypomanic, but who wouldn't want that? That's perfect as fulfillment. Yeah. People wouldn't want that.

Simone Collins (2): This is why people buy cocaine. All right? Like, this is why people get addicted to meth.

No, but I think

Malcolm Collins: that this is why I was diagnosed with a DD, right? Like, I'm very excitable. I'm very like, try to work all the time. And well,

Simone Collins (2): no, but like a DD. You can't focus and like you do, you do con concerted focused work. I mean,

Malcolm Collins: I, I I focus on things that I like, which is what most a, DD people are like.

That's true. Yeah. Your a

Simone Collins (2): DD. Yeah, that's so true. And like, well, so Scott Alexander had talked about this 'cause, you know, he, you know, has, has, has. You know, diagnosed and treated a lot of people with a DD and he helps 'em, you know, they get their, their a DD medications that they want and he, he pointed out, and, and I [00:18:00] can't find the original blog post, but just like, hey, maybe sitting in front of a computer in an office doing work that you personally find meaningless, like, isn't something we were evolved to deal with in the first place.

Like, our definition of this as a disorder is again, a reflection of our society.

Malcolm Collins: A DD was useful to me only in so far as, and, and this is where I do think it is. Useful as a categorization at all. Mm-hmm. In getting rid of it. But that's,

Simone Collins (2): and that's, that is where we get to the not retarded part of dealing with disability is Okay.

A disability is basically okay. The way your, your car doesn't work on these roads and sometimes you need to know that your car doesn't work on these roads. 'cause if you're stuck on these roads, you're gonna need modifications. You have to buy different tires. Just, yeah. And so, yes, it is important to do that, but only so you can drive on those roads long enough to get to a kind of road where you can drive well, like that's the point of this.

This is how you do the non retarded disability approach. And, and this is, this is the way to do it. But first, let's go into the ways to not do it. And I'm gonna [00:19:00] start with self-diagnosis. So can you, 'cause everyone's doing this now, can you guess the accuracy of most like online self diagnoses?

Malcolm Collins: I'm gonna guess.

20 20%

Simone Collins (2): pretty good. It's, it's 19 to 38%. There are some things that it's, you can more accurately diagnose online than others, but it's 19 to 38%. Oh. You know

Malcolm Collins: what you should pull up by the way? Yeah. That and I'll, and I'll talk on this subject while you do, there's a graph of the percentage of young people that identified primarily was a disability.

Oh. And, and they went through different age ranges. Okay. Try to pull that one up and I, and all the self-diagnosis thing. One of the problems with self-diagnosis is when particular diagnoses get trendy. Like everyone just opts into them. Yeah. And the reality is, is that you can, if you lean into it, present whatever you want.

For example, there was a period and this is well studied in, in psychological literature where people became famous, who had Tourettes. Oh, by the way, that's another one that I have. No,

Simone Collins (2): we [00:20:00] we're gonna, oh,

Malcolm Collins: yes, you do have Tourettes. Oh,

Simone Collins (2): oh.

Malcolm Collins: Taco Lantern. I, I, so people, people don't even because I'm, I'm fairly good at controlling it, so only if you were like a, a family member of mine would, you know.

Simone Collins (2): Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Because again, I don't lean into it. Like why would you lean into something like this? No. The

Simone Collins (2): sweetest way that you do, like you used to say stuff with like Tourettes, that would get you in trouble. Like which is the common version of it, right? Like people saying stuff like I recently saw, someone who knows if they really had it post online of like, them having Tourettes in an airport.

TSA line saying, I have a gun, pew, I have a gun, pew. And like just keeps saying that in the TSA line, like that's classic Tourettes. And you had some things that you used to like say when you were stressed, that would've made people concerned. Yeah, but

Speaker 2: guess

Simone Collins (2): what he says now when he has

Speaker 2: moments, he, he says, I love my wife.

He's. How do you do that? That is like the, the, the, that is the most romantic, wholesome disability I can ever seen. Well, I tried really

Malcolm Collins: hard to redirect the neural pattern because it's a neural pattern that's like [00:21:00] all of a sudden I, I, I describe it as sort of like there are, tire tracks in your head, you know, like tire tracks in your mud that like the more times you drive through it, the car gets pulled into it.

Yeah. And I think that's sort of what's happening with Tourettes is when you, you sort of, are in certain periods of anxiety or lose self-control it's pulled down to specific neural pathways. And if you exercise control over them for long enough, I can sort of force it down a new pathway. It doesn't work every time, but it works enough.

And the, by the way, the thing that causes it for me for people who don't know is it's extended periods of social interaction 100%. And then it happens afterwards. 100% because I, I overprocess what's happening in those moments. And, and I, I did, what's funny here is I even have the, the rare but cartoonish type of Tourettes where you say offensive things, right?

Mm-hmm. Like, but I don't know if it's, if it's regular Tourettes, because it doesn't appear like the, the, the phrases are slightly longer than they would be with normal Tourettes. Sometimes, yeah,

Simone Collins (2): sometimes the, like, there was, there was one sentence series my favorite, if you don't mind me [00:22:00] saying was taco lanterns, sometimes Taco Lanter.

That what I was

Malcolm Collins: trying to redirect to anything that wasn't offensive.

Simone Collins (2): Yeah, that, that came on later and I tried so hard on Etsy to find. A lantern that was a taco because I really wanted a taco lantern so

Malcolm Collins: bad.

But, but it was funny. Here is like, I am coming at this and like a lot of the watchers of our show, they're like, wait, he has dyslexia, dysgraphia, a DD.

He, he at one point was diagnosed with bipolar. He has tourette. So he didn't even think of that as like something to mention. Like, the reason, one of the reasons why we forgot abilities with such disdain is. I will see people build their entire persona around a disability that I considered trivial. Yeah, because I have so many You gotta catch 'em all.

Gotta catch 'em all. Did you find that

Simone Collins (2): chart, by the way? I found a bunch of charts. I don't think they're exactly the ones that you want. I'll send them to you real quick on WhatsApp so you can tell me if I found it. There's a lot that [00:23:00] show rates of both being L-G-B-T-Q and having these disabilities.

So that's maybe what we're thinking about. I found one that's a table that show that 45% of youth, identify as having a disability. But I, I wanted to touch on your Tourette's thing because that's, I think, a really good example of sort of self-diagnosis having a negative effect. But I also first wanna point out that, so first, okay, 19 to 38% of self diagnoses.

Like if, if someone's like, oh, I self-diagnosed with autism, they are, if you flip a coin, I mean, like the, the odds are they're wrong. Okay, the odds are they are incorrect with their diagnosis, but research nevertheless indicates that people who self-diagnose are more likely to report high levels of psychological distress and impairment similar to those with a formal diagnosis.

So even though they're more likely than not to not actually have the condition they think they have, they are still just as [00:24:00] likely as someone with the condition. To experience the adverse effects of that condition. So self-diagnosis can result in, in, in increased anxiety and a sense of, of stuckness or self-fulfilling beliefs even when the diagnosis is not later validated or supported through clin clinical care.

So like, this is just so damaging and. It, it's really important that people understand too, that like just perceiving something can be more damaging than actually having it. And, and there's a, a sleep study example that I like to cite with this 'cause it's so apt. There's research that shows that people who perceive themselves as poor sleepers despite objective evidence from sleep labs where they like can actually tell if you're asleep, like better than your aura ring or your Fitbit or whatever that their sleep is fairly normal.

If they believe they're poor sleepers, they can experience more adverse effects than those who report good sleep, but who actually sleep poorly. Like [00:25:00] in the sleep labs, they're like, damn, like this guy's not sleeping very well at all. But they, they feel fine because they don't see themselves as poor sleepers.

So like identifying as someone who has a condition can be really. Really damaging. I mean, this specific phenomenon is known as as sleep state misperception or paradoxical insomnia. But it's such a thing. It's such a thing. And I found that it totally exists, like during the, the newborn days where like I don't Yeah.

Sleep much at all. Right. If I act like it's normal and like, oh, well you know what, you know, human bodies have evolved to deal with this. Like, because they have, you know, like, we're fine. I don't really experience problems.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I'd also note here as a side here where people could be like, how could somebody have so many comorbid disabilities?

This is actually very, how can someone

Simone Collins (2): be. So retarded,

Malcolm Collins: right? Yeah. No, this is actually very common if you actually have mental disabilities to generally have a collection of them. Because if, if one thing's broken, it's usually there's a cascade and a lot of things are [00:26:00] broken.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And anyone who, but you've got

Speaker 2: brain

Malcolm Collins: wiggles.

It's

Speaker 2: just, that's, look

Malcolm Collins: at the way that I think through things. They can tell that it is very, your brain is wiggly. Lateral or, or sort of orthogonal. Orthogonal, yeah. Orthogonal to the way that a normal. Humans think through things. Mm-hmm. Which is one of the reasons why like the, the core reason I think I perform so well within the intellectual market is because I am both relatively intelligent, though not super intelligent like I've been in environments, you know, I, I got my MBA at Stanford.

I've been around like the actual smartest people on earth, and they're much smarter than I am. But I mean, I still was in like the top quarter of my class, but I, yeah, I don't know

Simone Collins (2): how many words. Smarter than you actually. But

Malcolm Collins: there were some that were smarter than me that I can just tell. There are a lot

Simone Collins (2): who have a lot of like raw intellectual power.

Like they can crunch numbers and do math in their heads and stuff, and, and you don't do that. I, but I mean, the point you're making though is that the mere fact that you have a wiggly brain that you think orthogonally and that, like, of course, in, in the, in the real world, world, in mainstream society, this makes you.

[00:27:00] Non-compliant with like normal test taking in normal school, it still gives you a huge advantage and people who identify with their mental disabilities. Or just choosing to, but how do you, how

Malcolm Collins: do you utilize this to get ahead? Mm-hmm. Is you just, and, and, and, because maybe I grew up with it and I was always in like the most disabled of the disabled group.

I always really, and I never identified that way. I never saw it as particularly important to who I was. Thank goodness. I was like, it, it may give me access to Ritalin, which is what Amphetamines for tests. Who doesn't want that? I know, right. You know. It may give me access to being able to do everything on a computer, but I just saw that as cool.

And it's so weird that, like, as a disability, it's completely disappeared. Like dysgraphia has not been relevant to me as an adult since my first job to address letters. Tin are, I bet

Simone Collins (2): Octavian has it. I'm pretty sure Octavian has.

Malcolm Collins: I, I mean, our kids might not even ever learn that they have it if they don't have to hand write.

I mean, like, I mean, we might have to for like AI tests. [00:28:00] So I guess we'll see how that goes. It's, it's, it's

Simone Collins (2): showing up in, in his work at school. I, I, I look at his work every day, so that's, and I, I also have like, those learn how to write books with him and like, even though there are grooves in the paper, he's like, but I mean, the

Malcolm Collins: point I'm making is, yeah.

Just take inventory of, be aware of, you know, if you are different in some way that can be diagnosed. There are many advantages to that 100%. For example, do you want me to go over

Simone Collins (2): some of them? I think there's, there's actually more than you, you probably know.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Go over.

Simone Collins (2): So yeah, one early diagnosis actually, I just wanna say like, is really important and formal diagnosis and that's what Malcolm got and it, it made a big difference that we're doing that with our kids.

Because studies like a lot of really consistent reaches, research has shown that children, for example, diagnosed with with autism spectrum disorder or other developmental disabilities at a younger age tend to experience less impairment and cognitive, social and adaptive functioning than those diagnosed later in life.

So the sooner the better. One study found the toddlers diagnosed with autism spectrum [00:29:00] disorder between 25 and 41 months were more severely impaired. Across multiple domains and nos diagnosed earlier. So like we're even talking really young, 25 months is pretty young, so like the earlier the better. And then early intervention and support during critical neurodevelopmental windows is linked to better outcomes.

So one, like it actually does make a difference with some things. And in terms of the benefits you get, we're gonna talk about the US because it would be too complicated for us to go country by country for the benefits you get. And also so many countries have like, you know, state me medicine that this doesn't matter the same way.

But in the USA where healthcare is insanely expensive, children with physical, intellectual, or developmental disabilities including serious mental health disorders can can qualify for Medicaid, which is basically. State healthcare, like nationalized healthcare. Mm-hmm. Even if their family income would otherwise exceed typical thresholds, because [00:30:00] typically Medicaid is only for people at or below the poverty level.

So for example two of our sons are diagnosed with autism and our, when we were told that, we were told like, well, this, this means that, you know, if you are formally diagnosed with your kids, they will be given supplementary insurance from the state that will pay for a BA therapy. That that would not be covered by your insurance, which is huge because we can't afford that.

Malcolm Collins: I just learned though, a lot of autistic people are total retards about a BA therapy. And they get all defensive about it and it's like, it's teaching you to mask like Yeah, unfortunately, Simone's autistic, right? Like you would say, you need to know how to mask. You don't get to make the world live. And this is the other thing.

I don't go out in the world and say, you need to live by my rules. Hundred percent. I'm gonna find a way to change myself so that I can work within your systems.

Simone Collins (2): Yeah, right.

Malcolm Collins: You know, yeah. You have

Simone Collins (2): to acknowledge that like, unless [00:31:00] you have the privilege of living a totally isolated life, you are going to need to know how to.

Go to the DMV and get something or possibly navigate a university or or an office. I mean, this is becoming increasingly irrelevant, which is why we're less and less worried about autism as a trait and we actually think it's advantageous 'cause we kind of. You know, techno futile world. People aren't gonna need to all work in a big office and like mask so much.

But, but all is necessary thing.

Malcolm Collins: Push back on here is they're gonna be talking about autism vulnerability. Well, some people with autism are like severely disabled and we're like, we're not talking about them, right? Like,

Speaker 2: no, but

Malcolm Collins: like, people who are actually mentally disabled, first of all, a, a few things here.

I don't think it's particularly worse. To be disabled because of some named disability outside of just being incredibly stupid, which does count you as a disability if you're of a, below a certain IQ level. Mm-hmm. But really that can just be random genetic variation. Right? Yeah. If, if you [00:32:00] lack the intelligence to compete within the system as it exists, you lack the intelligence to compete within the system that exists.

Yeah. And very, there's very little the system can do to get around that.

Simone Collins (2): Yeah. Really sucks. Yeah. There's, yeah, there's not a whole lot. That can be done in that case. I mean it's, it's more about communities and governments finding a place or a way to help those people still live productive and happy and fulfilling lives.

But back to this, this state supplemented healthcare, I learned recently 'cause I thought this only applied to a BA therapy. Yeah. No, we can just use that as supplementary insurance and have it pay for anything. Our, our employer based insurance doesn't cover, which is basically nothing because we have a family level deductible.

This is the amount that you pay out of pocket before your insurance kicks in of $16,000, which we can't afford. So there have been many times where like. We haven't taken our kids to the emergency room because we're like, well, we, we can't afford it. Like, we will never financially recover from [00:33:00] this. And now we can at least take our boys to the emergency room because insurance will cover it.

And it's because they're autistic, even though it hasn't, like, you know, them falling and bleeding profusely has nothing to do with them being like, I mean.

Malcolm Collins: Maybe it does not. I mean, maybe, maybe,

Simone Collins (2): maybe. But that's incredible. So like, I think there, I know actually of many parents who know that their children are autistic, but they haven't got them diagnosed because they're like, well, I don't want my son, no.

They're like, I

Malcolm Collins: can't afford it. It's like, bro, if it, it

Simone Collins (2): gets you

Malcolm Collins: free Medicare. That is one factor. Yeah.

Simone Collins (2): Getting diagnosed can take a really long time 'cause wait lists in the US are very long for diagnosis and it is expensive. It can cost like 500 to

Malcolm Collins: to more. I mean, do you, you remember what I had to do to get them diagnosed?

I booked at like a place in like a really rural area, like two and a half hours away. Yeah. It took us a

Simone Collins (2): long, long time to drive there

Malcolm Collins: and I constantly was looking for new practices. It was a new practice in the middle of nowhere.

Simone Collins (2): Yeah. And it cost a lot of money, so it is difficult. But the bigger reason I hear from [00:34:00] parents who've.

Like signal that they didn't do this was they didn't want their children to grow up with the stigma, like they didn't want,

Malcolm Collins: you know, it's so funny that you measure this, that when it's the exact antithesis of the way that I was raised, I know exactly my parents. Always let me know about all the diagnoses I had, so they, they clearly let me know about all of these. What they did not do is I was I was not allowed when I took state.

IQ test. Mm-hmm. Or state you know, the tests that would like rank you and stuff like that. Yeah. My parents had a strict policy of never letting me see my school. So you were never

Simone Collins (2): allowed

Malcolm Collins: to see how like

Simone Collins (2): successful you were? Only

Malcolm Collins: how,

Simone Collins (2): like

Malcolm Collins: only where I was failing. Yeah. Because they didn't want me to like.

To go to your head, one of those people who like grows up thinking that, I guess, I mean, it wasn't a secret to me. I was put in the gifted program and everything. Literally I was scoring near, there were signs. I wasn't like, they, they should have thought, okay, if he's scoring near the top, he [00:35:00] knows the reason we're hiding this is because he, your mom was onto

Simone Collins (2): something there though, because research has shown that telling kids that they're very smart can lead them to take fewer challenges on because they identify as being smart and any, any chance where maybe they, they don't.

Come out on top or get the answer right is, is a risk to their identity. And that is too scary and threatening for them. So instead, parents are encouraged to say things like, you tried so hard, you worked so hard. Funny

Malcolm Collins: thing that my parents did back then. Yeah. So they'd have me do like testing, right?

Like, like standardized testing. And obviously I do the testing that the other kids would do. Yeah. But I'd also do. College level testing, we need to do that with our kids. So I, I'd go into like college level testing things and I'd be the one little kid in this giant room of like high schoolers. We should totally do that.

And I, I always remember, I, I mean, I didn't do spectacularly on those back then. I remember I'd come in because those, I was a legacy. I'd come in like 80%. Amazing. But I mean, still I instead of, you know, when you're in middle school, that's pretty good. That's very impressive.

Simone Collins (2): [00:36:00] Yeah, 100%. But anyway, so like, don't, don't be retarded about your kids and not get them diagnosed 'cause of stigma because depending on how you contextualize it, there won't be any, it can be an advantage to them and.

You can get and 'cause it's hard to get good healthcare in the United States like that is an amazing benefit. And as long as that exists and, you know, check, it varies by state. But still, another thing you can get is if your child qualifies for that kinda subsidized healthcare. They also qualify for what's called ABLE accounts, which are, they're tax advantaged accounts.

So, if you just in a normal account in the United States invest money, like for your kids, you're gonna be taxed on the income that that money makes. Like the, the dividends able accounts don't tax the dividends, so your kid basically gets more money when you save it for them. Those accounts are supposed to, by the way,

Malcolm Collins: is a statistic that came from a piece called more Workers Consider Themselves Neurodivergent.

Okay? So 53% of Gen Z employees identify as neurodivergent. Of course they do. Only 11, you know, [00:37:00] the only 11% had received an official diagnosis.

Speaker 2: Of course.

Malcolm Collins: Eight 86% of a hundred hiring managers told them that they viewed neurodivergent disclosures as having either a positive or neutral impact on an application.

They're more, I mean, they're basically signaling that they're in the urban monoculture.

Simone Collins (2): Yeah. Yeah. I'm educated. And therefore, and, and like self-aware and therefore I'm a better hire. What's interesting is the person who invented this concept of neurodivergence was only referring basically to Asperger's, and she hates the fact that it has now just been used as this like broad umbrella term.

Like she's does not consent. She hates it. She does not

Malcolm Collins: consent.

Simone Collins (2): Yes. But then also when we've touched on these other benefits that there are, that you can get extra time and extra accommodations on exams as you had the typing thing and you had the extra time. So 100% like you can get in you, you even got to go to different exam rooms.

Like to not, oh, yeah. I,

Malcolm Collins: I got to do private exam rooms that, so, because I needed a computer,

Simone Collins (2): an extra time [00:38:00] because like for me, that was a big stressor. It's like, like Jimmy Overhears mouth breathing and the clock. I'm here in a

Malcolm Collins: private room on amphetamines with additional time with a keyboard

Simone Collins (2): because I also remember my hands cramping, the pencil going dull, like.

I mean, come on. It's like, why wouldn't you wanna give your kid that benefit? There are even things like special, special needs trusts for, for kids with qualifying disabilities, their educational plans. Like our, our, our son who's in kindergarten has all these additional teachers who come give him special attention, you know, so like, we're, we're in these like, large public school classrooms, but, but then he has like his, his minder who gives him extra attention and like, he gets to go off here and, and, oh.

Funny

Malcolm Collins: that you remember this, I just remembered as well. So another disability I had growing up, I had to go to, I had to go to separate classes for speech therapy. Oh, speech therapy. Yeah. I had a, I had a a list, so I had to go to speech therapy when, so I would [00:39:00] go to the I also, for a period was in the disabled.

Speaker 2: You were not,

Malcolm Collins: my mom was so mad 'cause I was, it was the actual retards and retards. And she, she got so mad at me for getting food in my class and I was like, I don't know, like this, this is where I'm, so then I go from there to the, the gifted progress.

Simone Collins (2): Well, and that's so like if she were, if she were a a parent of you today, she would call you two EAKA Twice exceptional.

Oh God. I hate that. I hate that. I know. Hate it. It's so cringe. It's so, yeah. That's okay. We're gonna put that in the retarded category of disability twice exceptional. But I wanna go back actually just to, just the, the, the, the damage you can do by contextualizing. Your disability as a bad thing, because context is important.

So we're like, yes. Get your kid diagnosed. Yes. Get yourself diagnosed. Yes. Get accommodations. Yes, absolutely. Play the system. Don't view it as an actual thing that cripples you. 'cause I can't emphasize enough, like people, and people don't talk about this [00:40:00] enough, the no SIBO effect, just how powerful it is.

So there's, there's a lot of evidence that suggests the no SIBO effect, which is basically like, so the placebo effect is where someone tells you something's gonna help and it, it helps you. Even if it doesn't, it's like whatever, like the pill they give you is totally inert. The no SIBO effect is the opposite.

If they're like, oh, this, this cream is gonna make your skin burn, and it does, even though it's just like water or lotion. Right. So the. Experimental research demonstrates that no SIBO effects. The impact of negative expectations are consistently stronger and more persistent than placebo effects. So healthy volunteers induced with negative expectations.

In one example, rated their pain much higher Over multiple sessions with this amplification lasting at least a week, almost double the impact seen with placebo suggestions. The no SIBO effect is ac. It's actually strong enough to cause real and serious medical conditions and side effects to require hospital care [00:41:00] or even contribute to fatalities.

So people have literally died from the no SIBO effect. Wait,

Malcolm Collins: wait, explain. Explain this.

Simone Collins (2): People, well, because they believe they have these problems, they start to experience real symptoms. We talk about this a lot in our spoony episode.

Spoony being people who self-diagnose with very difficult to diagnose and largely invisible illnesses.

And the argument that we try to make. And your

Malcolm Collins: body will react to that.

Simone Collins (2): Yeah. Yeah. Because a lot of people are like, oh, spoony, they don't actually feel anything. No. They feel something. They're suffering. They have very, very serious problems. Like they are, they're in pain. They cannot move, they cannot get up, like everything that they say they're experiencing.

Because of the nocebo effect they're actually experiencing. And here's the problem is, okay, so let's say you know, you, you self-diagnose your pro with some kind of disability. You probably don't have it. Like 19 to 38% of the self diagnoses are correct. The rest are not. But you are still going to [00:42:00] experience all the problems and, and the problem is that a lot of people just now.

Have had chosen to identify with their disabilities in, in, in a lot of different ways. And you, you pointed out the Tourette's incident. This is for those who are not familiar with it in, in 2020 to 2021. Clinicians and medical researchers noticed a surge in teenagers like, and especially adolescent girls.

Huh? What's going on there? Started presented like presenting these, these onset of tick like behaviors after extensive viewing of TikTok and YouTube influencers who either claim to have Tourette syndrome or display similar symptoms. And all these studies started documenting that many teens develop not only.

Comparable tips ticks. So like, you know how like most people with Tourettes have their own thing? Yeah. But these people all have the same thing. And very specific vocalizations and movements that directly mimicked those of social pop like popular social media influencers, like basically Tourettes influencers.

So very, very rare things and many that weren't even really [00:43:00] symptomatic of Tourettes. Like it. So it was someone faking Tourettes on social media causing other people. To fake the same kind of fake Tourettes, but then I, you know, surely also experiencing true adverse effects for the nocebo effect. So they, they, they describe this phenomenon as mass socio illness being spread, which it used to just be physical proximity, right?

Like those villages who dance themselves to death, right. But now it, it spreads on social media. So it's a much bigger issue. And, and similar patterns have been noticed with other conditions. A lot of people are identifying with A DHD, with autism, with Disassociative identity disorder. And that's really bad.

It's really bad. And there even like renegade versions of people who are very clearly actually disabled. But. And who are trying to like push back against, I guess you could say disability pedestal, who are still getting it wrong. So yeah, I had brought up to you Cripple Punk. And it's much older.

It's not a 2020s thing. [00:44:00] It started by, it was started actually by a specific Tumblr arena called Tyler Trea. Basically the, it started with just one post. Trey. Willa posted a selfie with a cane and a lit cigarette and labeled it cripple punk. And, and just added, I'm starting a movement and a movement was started.

And it's all about direct. Like Cripple Punk is about direct directly abandoning, like the hang in there kitten inspirational poster version of cripple people where like, you know, people post videos of, of adults with Down syndrome and are like, what inspiration, what a blessing. And it's like, I am not your mascot.

I am not your inspiration. And it's, it's this idea that disabled people exist. For themselves. You know, it's about being proud of who they are. But like the problem is that I think as much as cripple punk like kind of moves in a good direction of like, I'm taking ownership. I'm not embarrassed about what I am.

They don't take it a step further and say, and here's my advantage of [00:45:00] being a cripple. Well,

Malcolm Collins: I think, you know, it was a lot of this stuff. It's, it's, it's the way you should actually be. They're like, how did you actually be related to it then? Just don't relate to it. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, if you don't see it as a superpower, don't relate to it at all.

Whatever disability you have, right. It is irrelevant usually when contrasted with other genetic traits that you can't identify it with. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, for example, right. You know, suppose you can't use your legs or something like this, would you trade? Five points, 10 points of IQ for your legs back.

Like nobody would, nobody would. At the end of the day, it's just intelligence. Except for maybe somebody who's already very stupid. But at the end of the day, it's all just intelligence, right? Like no matter how much you have sort of. Standing in your way. At the end of the day, it's all intelligence combined with aness, combined with work ethic, combined with an ability to think outside the box.

Simone Collins (2): Yeah, like resourcefulness, I mean really [00:46:00] like having a disability is about being aware of where you deviate from societal norms or like the mainstream way people handle things and learning how to adapt to those environments, like through. You know, special testing or medication or whatever it may be.

And then also learning how to create and benefit from friendly environments like environments in which your unique configuration of car thrives. And that's it. Like don't, don't don't identify with it otherwise, don't get a. Fake internet diagnosis. Get a formal diagnosis if you really need one to get the medications, to get the special accommodations you need.

And only, only use your differences to achieve more, not less. Like this idea of of allowing a disability to give you an external locus of control where you blame everything on your disability is is the worst if you a approach it only with an internal locus of control. Like, okay, how am I gonna use this to my advantage?

Fine. But yeah. I, I think that that basically sums it up. I mean, you and I have adapted to our disabilities [00:47:00] by just creating weird schedules, mostly online lives, social isolation, like we work from home. Yeah. We don't go out much. And we live life according to our unique needs and our kids' unique needs.

So like we don't all sit down together around a table to eat dinner. Everyone eats in the way that like will maximize the amount of nutrition they need to get. Which means that our kids are running wild or like in another room or whatever, like mm-hmm. And they all get their own thing. It's like different food for everyone.

But that's what it takes. And that's not the societal norm. It's super not okay by most people's standards, but like it works for us. So yeah, just build the environment that works for you. And get the tools you need to navigate the hostile environments,

Malcolm Collins: get your space suit.

Yeah, well just, I mean, we used to understand this, there, there is a difference between the you know, disabled person and it's so interesting that this has been sort of taken out of media.

The disabled person who was like [00:48:00] exceptional in spite of their disability, which was definitely a thing in like eighties media and stuff like that.

Simone Collins (2): What, like Stephen

Malcolm Collins: Hawking or something. Well, yeah, we're thinking I think like X-Men or whatever, whatever.

Simone Collins (2): Oh yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. But then there was the disabled person who was just like.

Just figured it out. It was like everyone else. Yeah. Here I'm thinking like we were actually rushing because I didn't even remember that they had a guy in a wheelchair on this the incredible Ghostbusters cartoon. I'm like, oh my God, that's so mid nineties. Whatever happened to people in wheelchairs, in, in shows, and I also just don't see people in

Simone Collins (2): wheelchairs.

But anymore, but like, I remember yeah, growing up as a kid in the nineties, like every show as their diversity thing had someone in a wheelchair.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Who was that? And they always played basketball. Whatever reason, people in wheelchairs. Yes, they did. Loved playing basketball. I know very little about being in a wheelchair, but I know it makes you great at basketball.

Yeah. No, what is that? Oh my God. It's such a thing. I don't, one person saw it and then like all the TV execs are like, where's the [00:49:00] basketball scene? Yeah, he's in a wheelchair. Right. You gotta show him. And he's like, cool. A. No, but the point being is if, if you are, you know, blind back then or whatever, you just figured it the F out, right?

Yeah. Like, and you didn't make it into this big f-ing thing, but now people with these trivial disabilities are making it into this giant thing.

Simone Collins (2): Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So anyway, you guys have, you know, you have the dirt on us now you got dirt. Maybe some practical advice for those of you dyslexics who watch the show.

Hope you found this useful.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I love you to ask Simone. I, no, and I hope that people stop freaking I, I suppose every time you go out there and you talk about your disability or your hard childhood, know that there's a decent chance that the person you're talking to has that plus like 10 others.

And, and he is secretly thinking, oh my God, this person is such a buffoon. If that was, if that's what they tripped on, you know, rock one of. 30 rocks that flew at my face. Yeah. I'm like, what a [00:50:00] f*****g fool.

Simone Collins (2): I'm disabled. I love you Malcolm.

Speaker 2: Love you too.

Simone Collins: Two recording sessions next week. Okay.

Okay. Let me, oh, you've already recorded. By the way looks amazing and people really enjoyed the episode today. They also love the sliders reference.

Malcolm Collins: The sliders referencing are like, oh, just reference. You remember sliders. Well, today's episode was one of, I think my favorites. I think it's, it's up there in terms of our theories was the one Civilization hypothesis,

Simone Collins (2): at least one other commentator said this was their favorite episode.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So one person said that,

Simone Collins: Yeah, one and a lot of other people said they loved it. I'm just sending you screenshots of comments that I took.

Malcolm Collins: Oh. You know how to lighten my heart. People saying nice things about us.

Simone Collins (2): There's one random accidental screenshot of Binance not letting businesses connect to, but you like the,

Malcolm Collins: the picture of our fab before?

It looks

Simone Collins (2): great. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited about it. [00:51:00] Like you wouldn't even know. I'm so excited about it. It looks good. Did you generate the images too?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I generated the images. I, I, I got them in the backend asset folder. I connected them, I did all the, all the coding. Look at you vibe coding is awesome.

And we're gonna add that to our Patreon paid stuff for anybody who wants to learn about how to do like vibe coding and other things like that. 'cause I find it's, it's weird how you know, inaccessible, a lot of this information is when it's so important to surviving in the modern world. But like, I, I don't know how to code and I just picked it up and I can do it now.

I can code.

Simone Collins (2): Yeah. That's so cool. That's

Malcolm Collins: insane.

Simone Collins (2): Well, and it's not just, see, I thought it would just sort of do it all for you without you knowing really what's going on in the background. But what you're actually doing is it's helping you learn the actual underpinnings of it, which is so cool. Yeah. Yeah.

That you're doing more stuff manually now than I expected it all. It's, it's really awesome. Yeah. Just so FYI, for those listening, we have paid only. Patreon, VIP Substack. Also, if you're paid on Substack, you get these [00:52:00] episodes, two on the weekends. We're trying to keep that up, which may be tough given our schedules going forward.

But we're gonna, so far, we've, we've kept an unbroken streak. We're gonna try to keep going, so if you want more, you can get more, just tough to pay for it. Okay. Here I go.

Okay.

So instead of showing you guys a picture of our kids today, I'm gonna show you a picture of one of my old honeymoons with Simone. 'cause they showed up in Google Photos, memories. But it also shows just how the weird living with somebody who has like autism like her can be, which you'll notice that she's doing in this, is she is.

, Observing the exact category of food she's about to eat. Then she is looking up that food in, , her apps. Then she is putting that food on a portable scale she brought with her so that she can calculate all of her [00:53:00] numbers.

Speaker 7: Sova. It's a pavlova. All right.

How to do this? I think I'm just gonna grab it.

Speaker 9: Oh, my thought. This is gonna be more difficult than I thought.