Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm Collins

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In this episode, Simone and the host delve into the concerning trend of families leaving major American cities. They discuss an article from The Atlantic titled 'The Urban Family Exodus is a Warning for Progressives,' highlighting statistics and factors contributing to this mass migration. With a focal point on the dramatic decline of children under five in cities like Manhattan, Los Angeles, and San Francisco, they explore the potential consequences on urban life and progressive policies. The conversation extends to comparisons between conservative and progressive cities, the impact of progressive ideologies on city infrastructure, and personal anecdotes on living in both urban and suburban environments. The episode also touches on the broader social implications and the future of family life in urban areas.

Speaker 2: [00:00:00] Hello, Simone! Today we are going to be talking about an interesting phenomenon that I was aware was happening, but I was not aware how severe it was, and it is chilling when you go to the stats, and here we are talking about the mass and very recent mass exodus of families and children from major American cities.

They are just disappearing. And for this, I will be looking at an article in the Atlantic called the urban family exodus is a warning for progressiveS. So, of course, the piece starts with the writer bemoaning J. D. Vance as the worst human being in the world, and Trump is all monsters because they must, in their performative shlicking, I love this as always whenever they're the pronatalist piece, they must start by saying how horrible we all are, and then they go to But they may have a point. But, at the risk [00:01:00] of giving Vance any credit here, I must admit that progressives do have a family problem. The problem doesn't exist at the level of individual choice, where conservative scolds tend to fixate.

Rather, it exists at the level of urban family policy. American families with young children are leaving big urban . counties in droves. And that says something interesting about the state of mobility and damning about the state of American cities and the progressives who govern them. First, the facts in large urban metros, the number of Children under five years old is in free fall, according to a new analysis of census data by Conan O'Brien, a policy and Oh, no, sorry.

Connor O'Brien looks like he's

Speaker 4: a policy analyst.

Speaker 2: Now you're doing a new guy at the think tank economic innovation group from 2020 to 2023. So in three years, the number of these kids declined by nearly 20 percent in Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens. And the [00:02:00] Bronx.

They also fell by double digit percentage points in counties making up most or all of Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Minneapolis, and St. Louis. If you do not understand how huge that is, imagine if some other population declined by 20 percent in Manhattan over the course of three years.

Imagine if like the number of black people in Manhattan declined by 20 percent over three years, would progressives be a brick? Would they be running around like the sky was on

Speaker: fire? Well, and we also have to think about the, the industry impacts of this. If there are not enough children to justify good schools, good daycares, good services,

Speaker 2: it's going to be really hard to get that.

Yeah.

Speaker: This is terrifying.

Speaker 2: This exodus is not merely the result of past COVID waves. Yes. The pace of the urban exodus was fastest during the high pandemic years of [00:03:00] 2020 and 2021. But even at the slower rate of out migration since then, several counties, including those encompassing Manhattan, Brooklyn, Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco are on pace to lose.

50 percent of their under 5 population in 20 years. 50 percent in the next 20 years. To be clear, demographics have complex feedback loops and counterfeedback loops. The total population of these places won't necessarily have by the 2040s. But we all know it will, so let's be honest here. Nor is this exodus merely the result of declining nationwide birth rates.

Yes, women across the country are having fewer children than they used to. The share of women under 40 who have never given birth doubled from the early 1980s to the 2020s. But the under 5 population is still declining twice as fast in large urban counties as it is elsewhere, according to O'Brien Censor News.

Analysis. So what's the matter with Manhattan and L. [00:04:00] A. and Chicago? After the Great Recession, during a period of low urban crime, young college educated people flocked to downtown areas to advance their career. Retail upscaled and housing costs increased. Soon families started to leave. In 2019, the economist Jed Koloko showed that in cities including San Francisco, Seattle and Washington D.

C., young high income college educated whites were moving in. And multiracial families with children were moving out. The coronavirus pandemic, which resulted in school closures and loosened the tether between home and office, pushed even more families to flee. Now, I want to note that they are playing a little shell game here because I want to put these statistics out on the screen right here.

Multiracial people as an ethnic group have the lowest fertility rate of any ethnic group in the U. S. Well below whites. Wait, really? Yeah, remember when we were going over that piece yesterday? Oh. But yeah this is, [00:05:00] he's just, he's just playing, playing games here. Playing games here. And also, as I mentioned in that episode of all ethnic groups in the U. S. other than inter ethnic groups blacks have the second lowest fertility rate. If you are only looking at blacks, not 30 percent of income.

If you're looking at blacks in the bottom 30 percent of income, it brings the black fertility rate in line with other fertility rates.

Speaker 3: But

Speaker 2: blacks actually have a devastatingly low fertility when they're not in just objective poverty. Wow. In the United States at least. Which goes against progressive narratives.

, so here they're saying, quote, I am deeply worried about the family exodus doom loop, end quote, O'Brien told me, quote, when the population of young kids in a city falls to 10 or 20 percent in just a few years, that's a potential political earthquake. Almost overnight, there are fewer parents around to fight for better schools, local playgrounds, or all the other mundane .

Amenities families care about in quote behavior is contagious as Yale sociologist Nicholas Chetensky has shown if you have a [00:06:00] friend who smokes or exercises It significantly increases the odds that you will do the same The same principle might hold for having or not having kids actually studies have shown very I don't know He's not familiar with these studies, but okay, whatever as young children become scarce in big cities People in their twenties and thirties who are thinking about having children will have fewer opportunities to see firsthand how fulfilling parenthood can be.

What they're left with instead are media representations, which tend to be inflected by the negativity bias of news. At a glance, these trends might not seem like they have anything to do with contemporary progressivism, but they do. America's richest cities are profoundly left leaning and many of them, including New York, Los Angeles, and San Francisco are themselves in constant in left leaning.

States, the places ought to be advertisements for what modern progressive movement can achieve without the meddlesome conservatism getting in the way. At the local or state level, if progressives want to sell their cause to the masses, they should be able to say, elect us and we'll make [00:07:00] America more like Oakland, or Brooklyn, or New York.

Suburban Detroit. If they can't make that argument, that's a problem. Right now, it's hard to make that argument because urban progressivism is afflicted by an inability to build. Cities in red states are building much more housing than blue states, blah blah blah, and they're going NIMBY here. But the point being is and just, you know, it is Democrats that are keeping this building stuff from going up.

It's due to the way the corrupt unions influence democratic politicians to ensure that building costs in the U. S. are much more expensive in cities than they are even in the E. U. Again, the visual politic video on this, I'll put the picture on screen so you can search it. The picture says the 2 million toilet, but I think the, the actual title is something like infrastructure costs in the U.

S. are skyrocketing. And VisualPolitik, I would always recommend their channel. Oh, they're great. Yeah. Ask, like, how I know so much about the world. In terms of like contemporary international politics visual politic is probably the best educational research [00:08:00] or contemporary political events that exist in the world today by a significant margin.

After them, Peter Zeihan is the next best resource.

Some people dismiss him as a CIA. Asset. Quote unquote, and I would really push back on this notion. That's not to say that he isn't obviously tied very closely to the American military industrial complex. And he doesn't have a very strong, , motivations to promote their interests.

But he is the first geopolitical analyst that any of the mainstream listen to that recognize the huge potential impact of fertility collapse. And he has made a number of a very, very correct calls over the ages. And he's generally been right about most of the calls that he's made. So when an individual comes to me and they're like, oh, , don't trust this guy because he has these preset interests.

I'm like, well, that may be true, but he sort of batting a hundred right now. So when somebody with no [00:09:00] geopolitical contacts. And who has made it no accurate predictions about future geopolitical events. Comes to me and says, don't trust this guy who has tons of geopolitical context, because he has tons of geopolitical context and who has made tons of accurate predictions about the geopolitical scene and how it's going to play out.

I don't know, I'm just a little incredulous.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. But also I

Speaker: just love how wholesome Peter Zeihan is just like Doing his podcasts while on hikes a little bit winded, you know, so he's really trying to exert himself.

He's a

Speaker 2: good guy. When we were publishing our book, we asked him for advice and he actually got back to us.

And I always, you know, I have sort of this internal reference part of everyone more famous than us who did us a solid before we were as famous as them. And they're sort of in my never ever betray.

Speaker: Or

Speaker 2: who just

Speaker: took to take time to respond to us as nobodies. It means a lot.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And this was back before we had received much news coverage and stuff like that But also even now like that.

We're well [00:10:00] known i'm like for example Just pearly things platform does she had us on her show, you know, she was friendly with us and she's at a much higher level than we are right so huge for me infinite like I'm always in her camp. Same with Chris Williamson. Same with Stuttering Craig, who runs Sidescrollers.

These are people who, Ru Rubyart who runs what of all his? Ayla. These are all people who helped us before we became big deals. And there's many other famous people who've helped us before we became big deals, but don't want to be officially associated with us, so I'm not going to name their names.

But they're still in my I will do and always stand them bucket.

The one downside of this, of course, being that individuals might be able to.

Triangulate who our friends are from the individuals who we always stand, no matter what, even when it may not make perfect sense why we're standing them.

Speaker 2: But yeah, those are, those are good sources. But anyway, so they, they basically show in that particular video how progressive politics in the United States has made it [00:11:00] impossible to build in the major cities. However, I think if you're saying, Oh, the problem is we're not building enough housing in major cities and that's why people aren't having kids.

I think, you know, you're missing the forest for the trees.

As an example of this, a lot of people, when they complain about oh, low fertility rates are totally a factor of small living spaces or cost of housing. I would point out that in Israel over the past decade of home prices have increased by 345% and are unusually high on a global scale. And this has actually been driven primarily by government policy.

Specifically regulations in inefficient land use. And yet Israel has sky high fertility rates.

Speaker 2: I do think he makes a point that. If progressives can't go to conservatives and be like in the areas where we dominate we have fixed the problems that you don't have because it's clear I think to anyone who has lived in a progressive in a conservative district as we have now life is like objectively better in conservative districts.

Like [00:12:00] there's more stores that it's cheaper. The, the Police are better. The fire people are better. The infrastructure is better. The it's it's kind of

Speaker: humbling. It's humbling just to also even just to see the experience that our son is getting in kindergarten because we're setting we're letting him go to public schools kindergarten because he asked.

We don't consider it his education. It's a supplement to school. homeschooling that he like, you know, we consider like soccer, man, the resources he gets the treatment he gets. It's incredible. So yeah,

Speaker 2: this was not the case. So my, my brother and his wife made an exodus from LA where they were based. And they've just been like, Oh my God, like it is so much better out here in, in rural Pennsylvania than it was in LA in every respect.

And I think, yeah, This is something where you you really didn't want to move to a rural area when I first suggested it to you and you were treating it as a massive concession. I [00:13:00] remember when we were first talking about this, you're like, yeah, but there's so many things to do in the city and there's so many, like, I could walk

Speaker: everywhere, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, you can

Speaker 2: walk everywhere. Like we can walk to the grocery store. And then what ends up happening, right? As, as you realize. I remember like when you realize you're like, wait, we were walking to a grocery store 30 minutes and carrying our bags back home and we are driving two and a half minutes to a grocery store here, filling our trunk and driving it back home that it is infinitely more convenient.

Or it's like, yeah, but you won't have as much to do. I'm sorry. I get to take my kids to the grocery store. Myriad of festivals which are happening constantly around us. I get to take them to pick pumpkins I get to take them to to pick wildflowers at the wildflower picking areas. I get to take them to pet bunny rabbits I get to take them to like it is so so so much to do that is so much [00:14:00] Like nicer and more wholesome than the things I was doing in the city before.

And, and what do I want from city with a kid? It's like, what are they offering kids? Nothing. And then it's like, Oh, but they have a few nice museums. And it's like. Yeah, maybe, but they're not harder to get to from ex urban areas than they are from the cities. So, for example we went to Philadelphia this weekend to go to the Franklin Institute and it was a 30 minute drive.

If I had gone from the city, what would it have been, a 20 minute drive? Like, this is the thing with cities, especially the major cities like San Francisco that people miss is you're not actually that much closer to other stuff in cities because the infrastructure of cities is so poorly designed

Speaker: when we also thought that living in a city or sorry, living in the suburbs would isolate us from friends when it turns out that.

We actually socialize more and more efficiently as people who live outside the city. And that's not because people come to us because it is no one wants, no one's here. No one's even really in Philadelphia. [00:15:00] We go out to New York. We've got to DC, but what we do, and we're just about to do this is we will host happy hours or cocktail parties two nights in a row while staying at a nice place.

And just invite everyone we know in that city to come out and a decent number of people show up

Speaker 2: Because we're a limited commodity.

Speaker: Yeah, like if you're in town, everyone's like, well, maybe I'll just see you later. You're here. I'm here We'll see each other eventually and it never happens and we socialized very very little when we lived in cities Now that we're outside.

We're very systematic about it. We don't waste our time and when we do it, we do it really well It's nice. So yeah, it's You Not what you would expect, I guess. I was very surprised by our move to the suburbs. They're much more pronatal, for sure. Well, and people like MoreBirths on Twitter constantly make this argument that I mean, he likes to argue, I think, that there's just not enough physical space in apartments and cities that people are too But hold on, I'll

Speaker 2: [00:16:00] argue more than this.

I don't just think it's living in a rural area. So that was one thing that changed, but you have lived in more conservative and less conservative cities. So you've lived in San Francisco and Dallas. What is the quality of life like between those two cities?

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: You grew up, I grew up in Dallas.

My, my family's in local politics in Dallas. So I, my opinion of Dallas doesn't count. What is your perspective of the city? As somebody who visited, I remember the first time you visited and you're like, where are the homeless people?

Speaker: Yeah. It's just too hot for them. Although now there are homeless people in Dallas, but before, yeah, they're just

Speaker 2: not that many.

I mean you say it's too hot for them, but it's not that it's that they don't offer services for them. Yeah, there's just not much of an incentive. San Francisco recently had a policy to convert luxury high rises to homeless apartments that are given to them for free. New York has a policy where they rent out rooms in hotel rooms, sometimes luxury hotel rooms, for homeless people [00:17:00] rather than letting them sleep on the streets.

Speaker: Yeah, not ideal. You think Dallas

Speaker 2: has s**t like that?

Speaker: Not ideal.

Speaker 2: That's why they're not in Dallas, because they're not putting them up in luxury hotels. And Dallas has democratic politicians running it. They're just not wackadoos like the ultra progressives of the East Coast.

Speaker: I mean, I don't know what to say. It is, it is very different. Yeah. And even the social scene I thought would be worse in Dallas and it wasn't, and it wasn't much, we couldn't find progressive people. In fact, the progressive people that we met. In Dallas, you know, because you think, oh, there are only conservatives in Dallas.

And that certainly was the impression of people I knew in the Bay Area. When I left, they always said, well, couldn't you at least just go to Austin, not Dallas, but they were many conservative and many progressive young people in Dallas. And they were honestly more interesting because they were [00:18:00] progressive, not because it was normative, but because they.

We're genuinely progressive people. And I think that's the other really big thing is that progresses are more interesting and fun in conservative or centrist cities because they're real and they're not just let's

Speaker 2: talk about. I'm sorry that I think you actually make a great argument there, right? Like.

If you, if you go to a Dallas is a Democrat city, like it is a solid blue city. One of my cousins recently ran for Congress in Dallas. And she ran as a Republican and it was just like, she had no shot. She had no shot. My, my, my granddad with the Congressman there who, when it, when it was Republican, but like it's not anymore.

Anyway, so, they, they, they, if you can trust something like Dallas. We've been to Austin recently, which is genuinely more progressive. Like it's like a progressive progressive city.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker 2: It is nightmarish living condition. It

Speaker: doesn't feel safe. It doesn't [00:19:00] feel clean and nice. We

Speaker 2: literally

Speaker: saw

Speaker 2: a bum fight.

Speaker: Remember we had one

Speaker 2: actually start following us and like, like yelling at us to like attack us.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 2: That one time. Yeah, we felt super not safe. Austin is not a safe place.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Could you imagine What's so funny though is that we also walked by that boogaloo guy who like had a pretty sizeable Did you know

Speaker 2: Austin had a parade, an anti natalist parade, where everyone dressed in like black and like looked sad and like

Speaker 4: Oh, they just looked sad?

Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently somebody said it was the most Depressing parade they've ever seen because the anti natalists are just like depressing people you know We're gonna have a pro natalist like parade like a fairground thing when we host the pro natalist. Oh, yeah. Yeah cheaper So if you are in austin, for the natalist conference garbage fire of the city but no, and I, I literally mean it like when I think like Austin, it is, it is like Portland level bat.

It is like an actual open garbage fire at this point. You would [00:20:00] not want your kid walking down

Speaker: the neighborhoods outside of the main city. It's just the problems that we always go to, like that area around the convention center that has the most problems.

Speaker 2: I don't think so. I mean, Dallas has quote unquote, like downtown is a dangerous part of Dallas and I've never actually felt in danger in downtown Dallas.

I have been to Austin like three times recently and I have felt in mortal danger every one of those times. I have never. Downtown Dallas has wing bucket,

Speaker: wing bucket, home of the sour cream and onion. Yeah. I don't know if it's still

Speaker 2: there, but that was in central Dallas.

Speaker: It had better be. Oh, get your bucket.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker: You

Speaker 2: got

Speaker: to

Speaker 2: get your bucket. When I learned something else for people who are watching this from Dallas because I didn't know this when I was interviewing my dad but apparently it was him. He's the reason why the underground tunnels that connect the center of the city do air conditioning stuff.

He was on the, or like started the community to put that together. Oh, your grandfather

Speaker: did that?

Speaker 2: What? Your grandfather started that? No, I think my [00:21:00] dad did. It was either my dad or my grandfather. I can't remember from the thing. I just didn't know. Wing

Speaker: Bucket is still there, by the way. And also, there is now a Deep Ellum location.

Speaker 2: Oh! Oh yeah, I wanted to invest in them when I had their food. I was like, this is some great stuff. I know, I think you

Speaker: met the owner and spoke with him. And you're like, can I invest? And he's like, I don't know, man. I just own this business. Labors.

Speaker 4: But oh yeah, they PPJ, spicy Korean

Speaker: barbecue. Sorry. Mm.

Speaker 2: Why Austin is so bad. Like why this ends up happening. And I think it's all downstream. And we talked about this in another episode, this rehabilitate rather than prosecute mindset. Which is to say that when people are bad actors in a city environment the progressive mindset is we can fix them and it's probably our fault that they're bad actors.

Whereas the more conservative mindset is to say

Speaker: just remove them from the equation.

Speaker 2: Remove them from the equation. Yeah. They're being a bad actor. They're going to breed more bad actors, cause more people to make the same poor decisions that they've made. Yeah.

Speaker: Cause more damage. So,

Speaker 2: and, and, and [00:22:00] worse victimize innocent people, which is what we see in places like Austin all of these signs that say things like keep Austin weird and stuff like that, you can be weird.

And still have a degree of ruthlessness to the way that you, you treat individuals. Yeah,

Speaker: that's so true. You can be weird and ruthless and weird.

Speaker 2: Does it mean hold on what people say? Keep keep Austin weird. I'm in weird. Okay. Oh, no. Now that, now that

Speaker: but like since Tim Walz started the whole weird as like an accusation against conservatives, does Austin have to, and does Portland have to drop the whole Do they have to drop?

Weird. Weird. I hope they do. I hope

Speaker 2: I, I actually wanna like, do a campaign around that. Like, Portland is weird. Just like JD Vance. Just like JD

Speaker: Vance make, make Portland weird again.

Speaker 6: Here in Portland, we've been hearing for a while now that we are weird. And if he's weird, she's weird, and they're weird. And if this is weird, and that is [00:23:00] weird.

Then all we have to say is

Democrats and the Harris campaign now deploying a new adjective to blast the Republican ticket. Some of what he and his running mate are saying, well, it's just plain weird. Get those nerds! I mean, on the other side, they're just weird. Nerds! It's not just a, a, a, a weird style that he brings. Nerds! Nerds!

Nerds! Nerds! Where are they? I think they're talking about us. No way. Oh no! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Speaker: Oh my God. Yeah, that would be interesting.

Speaker 2: But when they say weird, they mean normative. Like they mean culturally normative to the urban monoculture.

I mean obviously that's what that's code for. Yeah. But it, it, it turns them into these horrible places to have your kids. I mean, would you feel safe with your kids in Philadelphia right now? I haven't been to Philadelphia for a long

Speaker: time,

Speaker 2: so I don't know. [00:24:00] Okay. I guess, yeah, I, I'm the one who still goes to Philadelphia.

You don't, when was the last time you went, you go to DC and New York more than Philadelphia now, right?

Speaker: I do. Yes. Sadly.

Speaker 2: Even though we're like, no one,

Speaker: no one's in Philadelphia. Like we don't have a critical mass. of movers and shakers in Philadelphia. We've tried to build it, but just no one seems to be there aside from one person who I deeply respect.

So there you go. There's

Speaker 2: a couple interesting people in Philadelphia. We just don't, aside

Speaker: from Tracy wood grains, who

Speaker 2: Oh, Tracy Woodgrain's in Philadelphia? No, I was thinking of the various, like, conservative influencers we know in the area. And keep Oh, like the YouTubers who live in Phoenixville right by us, right?

Yeah, so for example, like, somebody who lives in our neighborhood is the Lore Lodge guy. He's like, he, I don't know where he is, but I know he lives in Phoenixville, so he's within eight minutes of our house. But I know I've also seen, like, I've been able to piece together where other [00:25:00] YouTubers live, and I don't want to, like, out it, because He's talking is not cool.

Yeah. We live easily within a 10 to 15 minute drive of like 10 other really famous YouTubers. And we're not famous YouTubers here. I'm saying like, these are like actually famous, famous YouTubers. Yeah, actually famous people like our neighborhood YouTube . Maybe we can

Speaker: make this the new YouTuber hangout.

You know, like in LA there's all these mansions where YouTubers live, but like this is where the based family man YouTubers live, where everyone just has their own house and lives a good life instead of. You know, living, like, cracked out. Yeah, all the YouTubers

Speaker 2: I'm thinking of are, like, true crime YouTubers or, like, like, cryptid YouTubers or, like, YouTubers who focus on geopolitics or YouTubers who focus on conservative politics.

Those are, like, the categories that this area seems to attract. But and I will note this that they are all, like, either politically centrist or conservative, as YouTubers that I'm aware of and they All are very private and do not hang out with like the [00:26:00] wider YouTube community. So that's the thing.

Like you could try to create like a critical mass of them here, but they don't like they'd be, have no interest in talking with other YouTubers.

Speaker: Come on, man. That sounds great. Let's just all, I grew up with this culture in my family. It's one of my favorite family traditions of all time. And this is something that my parents coined, or at least that's they used, they called it parallel play.

Which is we would just all ignore each other, do our own things, but in proximity with each other. So we were enjoying each other's company. Sometimes we were listening to the same thing. Like we'd always listen to the same NPR shows together. We'd listen to this American life. We'd listen to the wait, wait, don't tell me.

We'd wait to listen to car talk. We'd listen to all these like folksy Bay area, like San Francisco radio shows that came on. It was like a Celtic program. It was just great. And we would just all do it together with the same kind of backdrop of media. and be really happy. My mom would fold laundry. I would go through catalogs while eating food and my dad [00:27:00] would do whatever it is that my dad did.

And it was great. And I would just love to have a parallel play community here where everyone like, maybe we'll walk by each other at stores and just be like, I'm glad they're here, but not talk. We won't talk. And we won't make eye contact. We'll just be like, That's your idea of community.

Speaker 2: I love all these people who are like, Oh, well, we moved near you guys.

You know, we'd want a feeling of community and stuff like that. And you're like, yeah, your kids can play with our kids, but don't expect us to talk to you. Like, yeah, I don't want to risk having to communicate with somebody. Even our like, Close friends, like people who I really respect. I don't like, I, I'm like, I, I guess I moderately enjoy talking to them a few times a year, but I mostly like reading the content that they put out and watching the videos they make.

And, and that's my, my social connection is a parallel parasocial connection. I don't need more than that. Yeah.

Speaker: But then, you know, if the apocalypse comes, then we like, you know, create a sort of defensive network and, you know, trade guns and bullets and vodka and [00:28:00] Legos. Are we getting a

Speaker 2: bunch more guns this Black Friday?

Speaker: Yeah, and maybe vodka and Legos for our currency. It'll be great.

Speaker 2: That's a great gift for the architects and stuff like that. You got to give them Vodka

Speaker: and Legos.

Speaker 2: No, vodka and guns.

Speaker: Oh, vodka and guns. Oh, vodka, guns, and Legos. I feel like that's really, maybe that's what we can bring, wear to like the Hereticon Apocalypse Ball, is just to have like little, like,

Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we're going to be cartridge patches on this next time.

Yeah, but they have like

Speaker: a, they have a ball that like either you have to wear black tie or you can wear apocalypse apocalypse themed clothing. And I just, I'm really thinking a lot about, I don't want to go to the ball. I don't want to stay up late and by late, I mean, go to bed past like 8 PM. But I want, I want to, I want an apocalypse costume.

Yeah. Cause I'm wearing one. I'm dressed like a cult member.

Speaker 2: But I'd actually love to hear your theory. Why are cities like Austin so [00:29:00] bad to live Like, like, like, like, astronomically worse to live in and be in than cities like Dallas? Because here you're comparing urban to urban. Like, what is it Or Houston, which is a Have you been to Houston?

Speaker: I've never been to Houston. Honestly, This, this is going to be horrible. But I feel like culturally homogenous cities are just categorically a lot better to live in. I think Dallas is a more culturally homogenous city. I think cities like San Francisco and Austin are a lot more culturally mixed.

And I don't just mean, I'm not talking about race. I'm talking about culture. So, and where we even talking about like the Bay Area people versus the people who grew up in Austin clashing when there's just not enough shared context, shared norms.

Speaker 2: I don't know. I think one of the reasons why here's what you might be missing.

There is a lot of cultural diversity of major populations in [00:30:00] Dallas.

Speaker: No, no, no. But no, no, no. You don't understand. That's not what I mean. It's not, you can come from a different background, but if you all grew up with the same norms and rules and understand what I'm

Speaker 2: talking about. So like the, the communities I'm thinking about that are huge in Dallas.

Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: There is a very, very large Indian immigrant community in the Dallas area that is totally different value system from the rest, but it's like an aligned value system when we're like, when you go to the Indian immigrants and you're like, we're going to like, Get the homeless people out of town.

Yeah. They're like, yeah, do that. Get rid of them. There's also a very large Hispanic area population in Dallas. But again, they're like very conservative and based. Yeah, but that's, that's what I mean. Few like, like Filipino communities and stuff like that in the Dallas area. But again, When they migrate to Dallas, I think what you're wrong about, or what you're missing, is that there's cultural diversity in both

Speaker: [00:31:00] Maybe I could make my point better if I described this in the terms of like fan communities.

A lot of people have talked about this phenomenon of fan or niche communities. Starting to suck when they get larger because first you have this community where, you know, a lot of different people came together, but they all really enjoy this one thing and they all share the same inside jokes and they all came to it out of love for the thing.

And, you know, we're early fans of it. They know the content, the lore. And then the thing gets really big and starts going mainstream. And now a bunch of people are coming in, not necessarily because they love the property, but because it gives them cachet in other realms. Like, Oh yeah, I'm a star Wars fan.

Like, or I like games, follow my channel. And they're not really into it for that. And they start to exploit the community. Yeah. In ways that, that, you know, they're not there for the spirit of it. This is

Speaker 2: totally different than your previous point. I mean, I have noticed this about Dallas. So if you look at cost [00:32:00] of living versus the amount of money you can earn in a city, typically, if you divide those things, you get the terribleness of a city.

The city was the worst that I have lived in cost of living versus the amount that you earn in that city divisor is Miami. And it is by far the worst city I have ever been in from a, a, a lifestyle perspective.

Speaker 3: Miami is

Speaker 2: terrible. And, and, and the people it attracts. And it is because it is people who are sacrificing a decent ability to live for the ability to say that they live in Miami.

Whereas if you're in Dallas, it's sort of on the opposite side of that spectrum, nobody's impressed when you say you live in Dallas, Dallas, it is because you are moving there because when you divide the amount an average person makes there by the cost of living there, you're like, Oh, this is a pretty good equation.

And so you, you go there and I agree with that to an extent. And I think that that's [00:33:00] definitely, definitely, definitely cheeses. Dallas's numbers is the, is the bad brand that the big D has. But I actually think. That the, the bigger thing here is that when people with conservative sensibilities are migrating from around the world,

I.

e. If I'm a Hispanic immigrant and I'm moving to Dallas, or I'm an Indian immigrant and I'm moving to Dallas, or I'm a Filipino immigrant and I'm moving to Dallas I am not moving there. And I think partially you're right here. Like I'm not moving there because I want like. Cliche TM us like I don't want like the New York glitz and glam of an immigrant lifestyle.

And I think that this is actually really true when immigrants often move to places like Miami and New York and San Francisco. They were partially fooled maybe by movies, maybe by people who oversold what it was like to be an immigrant in these areas. When immigrants moved to Dallas, it's usually cause they had a family member in the Dallas area.

He's like, yeah, [00:34:00] it's actually pretty nice here. Come on out. And so, what you are getting is more of a wide open eyed practical immigration standpoint. And also an immigration standpoint that isn't utopianistic, but is pragmatic, right? So like, I'm not trying to move to the most perfect place that's ever existed.

And for that reason, when I see politicians getting rid of homeless people, I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. Like, I don't, I, like, I got kids here, man. Like, what do you, they, they, they, they keep hassling people. Like, why would I, why wouldn't I not handle that? And so I think that that is part of what it is because I think that the and I've noticed this because we were around.

I was actually looking at our school bus recently. We're again around. I grew up around a heavily in Indian community because Alice is heavily Indian. So I had a ton of Indian friends growing up in recently. I was looking at our school bus when it parked by our house in our neighborhood. And I realized that I think our kid.[00:35:00]

was the only white kid I could see on the entire school bus. The entire rest of the population was South Asian or Indian. And in other words, what, the reason I say South Asian is I can't tell the difference between Indians and Pakistanis. And I know that's super offensive. And so they could be Pakistanis.

Is it, wasn't the

Speaker: line kind

Speaker 2: of arbitrarily drawn? It was arbitrarily drawn, but they hate each other now. Okay. Uh, So I've got to pretend that they are two distinct groups when to me, they look the same. But anyway the point being is our district, if you look at young people in our district, like people of our age range is 70% South Asian.

Like our, like small neighborhood area. And so I was like, Oh, it's weird that I ended up moving into Indian community again, but.

Speaker: They're great people. Yeah, I'm not

Speaker 2: worried. I'm not worried whenever I Wait, I'll tell you what But yeah, but if I

Speaker: go door knocking and miss out the Asian answers, like I think I'm gonna have a pretty good conversation [00:36:00] and all of my horrible experiences have been with white people

Speaker 2: Every single one.

They're very entitled, I've seen with doorknocking. It's

Speaker 4: not just women, it's men too. And I think,

Speaker 2: why are

Speaker 4: we

Speaker 2: so beautiful? I've noticed East Asians are really nice when you doorknock too, right?

Speaker 4: Yeah, basically anyone who's not white has been amazing.

Speaker 2: How has the black family's been doorknocking?

Speaker: Awesome, super nice.

Like

Australia, do you notice you notice when

Speaker 2: you're door knocking the heavy South Asian population, or is it just that they're really heavy in the younger breeding groups in our area?

Speaker: They're , they're, they're in all the nice houses. , they're wealthy in our area. They're high achieving and a lot of them are pretty based.

Speaker 2: So I don't know. I don't, I do not know how we have so many in our area, I assume.

Speaker: They're all, we're all working at SEI. I don't know. These

Speaker 2: few big corporate campuses we have here, like Pfizer is right next to our house. [00:37:00] They have

Speaker: Pfizer. Yeah. Because like, I don't know, I just, I'm assuming they're working at them because they're in the nice houses that cost a lot.

And I like door knocking there. Cause it's pretty, yeah,

Speaker 2: you, you go to the rich neighborhoods. Hey, I haven't just

Speaker: gone to the rich neighborhoods. It's just that. In the rich neighborhoods, people, especially if I'm door knocking on weekdays, I'm more likely to be working from home. And so I can actually reach someone.

Whereas in like apartment complexes and lower income areas, they have to work. I can't like, they're not home. They're not going to answer their door. Well, I also always

Speaker 2: love the immigration stories when door knocking, because immigrants are like way nicer to Republicans than other people. Okay.

Because a lot of them come from countries where it used to be terrible and they're like, oh my God, I don't want to go that direction in America. Like, we've seen this was like the people who immigrated from China and stuff like that. They're really like, oh my God, like, you guys are saving the country sort of stuff.

Oh,

Speaker: you know, okay, yeah, there've been [00:38:00] some, some Chinese families. So they weren't mean, just like very suspicious of me. But that's okay. Cause I don't, I don't want people to knock on my door. Like, I don't blame people for that. And you, are you coming with a baby? No, I was pregnant. Like when I've met the, the, the memories I have with Asian families being very suspicious of me.

It was when I was pregnant, but I probably just looked fat. So

Speaker 2: that's a good reason to be suspicious of somebody. Yeah.

Speaker: It's a fat woman appearing in my doorstep and this is not a good situation. But yeah, so the other thing I'm wondering though, and I don't know how much the stats are correcting for this is the extent to which antinatalism is just getting, and has been so bad in cities where.

Yes, families are, are actually, you know, actively moving out of cities, but also we're just not seeing the same rates of people having kids and babies in cities. And also high fertility being priced out of cities, the cost of living in [00:39:00] cities being so high.

Speaker 2: A spiral collapse of the ability to have children in cities and have them safely in cities.

Especially as, and I think we're going to see this more and more with progressives. And I think we're already moving in this direction where people are going to see having kids as a strict moral negative and are going to want to begin to make life harder for parents. And I think that as the procreation of our species becomes increasingly partisan, I mean, this is why we put together the Collins Institute, As it becomes increasingly partisan there is going to be less of a reason to yeah let's let a, the, the, the, the, the future of humanity is going to become increasingly conservative.

It doesn't make

Speaker: a difference though. And I just, I wonder because in, in Seoul and in Tokyo and other, you know, Japanese cities. There are awesome resources for kids, you know, changing tables and state or like [00:40:00] little seats. You can put a baby in inside toilet stalls amazing little shopping cart things for kids.

Like they're very, they

Speaker 2: have a special parking for people with infants.

Speaker: Yeah. And yet, you know, the birth rates aren't great there either. And they're very kid friendly. They're trying desperately who is. I'm talking about cities in Tokyo and in Seoul as well. I'm not talking about here.

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, but that's a completely different cultural context

Speaker: We've

Speaker 2: talked about why fertility rates being low There is different from the reason why they're low here if people are wondering Go watch our why are fertility rates low in koreans or why can't koreans make these and it's like a picture out of our baby It's korean fertility rates are totally different reason than u.

s fertility rates and

Speaker: i'm just trying to make the argument that in a post industrial society You Is, is making things pretty and easy for families really the thing that makes a difference? No, I don't think so. I think in the end fundamentally it's cultural and, and like [00:41:00] a city making it more logistically difficult for parents I don't think is going to be the, the death knell.

It's, it's the way people live that ultimately fundamentally changes birth rates and family formation.

Speaker 2: Maybe. I, I will say as well, one thing I would say for people who have stereotypes of and I've always found this really interesting. Is the, that's Octavian,

Speaker: I don't want to move. And he is totally crashed out on my lap.

Speaker 4: You should see Malcolm, she's like, totally just done.

Speaker: Milk drunk. Very relaxed. Next.

It's like having a cat sleep on your lap. You don't want to get up just like warm and heavy.

Speaker 2: You can get started on dinner early.

Speaker: Okay. Well, let's wrap it up then.

Speaker 2: Octavian.

Speaker 5: Dad, [00:42:00] I just did two more minutes from school. It's so it doesn't take too long. Okay. And Octavian two socks. Look at mom

Speaker: Octavian.

Do you want to live in a city or do you want to live where we live now by the trees and the grass.

Speaker 5: I wanna go to a city.

Speaker: You want to go to A city? To city?

Speaker 2: Tell me about it. Why do you wanna go to a city? Why a city? '

Speaker 5: cause I, where we like cities to get some or toys.

Speaker: So cities have toys. Is that what's going on?

But doesn't

Speaker 5: target have toys and that's near us? Okay. Um, Do you know what a city is?

Speaker 2: Do you remember New York?

Speaker: Would you want to live in New York? He doesn't remember New York when he was taken. Remember when we, we took Torsten and Octavian to New York when they were young. And I thought, Oh, this is going to be great. You know, they're gonna play in all the parks and everything, you know, everything's so walkable.

Central [00:43:00] park is huge. There are lots of playgrounds there. The playgrounds are so bad compared. Oh dear. To the playgrounds we have, I guess we're making dinner now.

Speaker 2: You need to be careful about that. Okay.

Speaker: Oh The playgrounds are really bad in, in New York city compared to what we have here. And I just didn't think, I thought central park.

Lux, you

Speaker 2: know, that like the swimming pools here have like water slides.

Speaker: Wait, in our public playground

Speaker 2: or something? In our area? Yeah!

Speaker: Wow. Well, nothing beats the, the playgrounds in Tulsa, Oklahoma. If

Speaker 2: you want to speak to our watchers, come on, you've got to have something you want to say to them. Yeah, at least

Speaker: ask them to like and subscribe.

Speaker 2: Is it the creek? Yeah. Is it going on a boat?

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Okay, say like and subscribe.

Speaker 5: Like and subscribe. Alright,

Speaker 2: bye bye. Wait, what? No.

Speaker 5: Like I described. And I also want to make a video of [00:44:00] me a turtle.

Speaker 2: Okay, you want to be a turtle? Then become a turtle.

Speaker 5: First I need a serpent on me, okay?

Speaker 2: Okay, go get something on you and you can go be a turtle.

Speaker: I will send you a picture of what he's referring to. Okay, I love you Simone. Come

Speaker 2: on down.

Speaker: Okay, on my way.

Speaker 2: I love you.

Speaker 4: I love you too. Bye. Bye.

Speaker 8: Help me! Help

Speaker 9: me! Help me! Is that puzzle making you angry? Here, let me show you a little trick. You have to flip.

Yeah, but Toastie was right the other way. Flip it. Flip it!

Speaker 8: Flip it! No! Flip it! [00:45:00] Flip it! Flip it! Flip it for selfies! Flip it! Flip it! Toasty, what are you doing to me? I said I'm going to be

funny.

https://discord.com/invite/EGFRjwwS92 In this episode, we explore a unique and compelling argument against atheism that contrasts with traditional Christian approaches. Delving into future scenarios of humanity's extinction, stagnation, and advancement, the discussion investigates the likelihood that humanity's future advancements may lead to god-like entities emerging. Through examining the implications of AI and genetic engineering, and the moral obligations we face today, this conversation challenges atheists to reconsider their stance and embrace a consequentialist perspective. The video also touches on the importance of resilience and pragmatic decision-making in the face of life's challenges.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Simone! Today, we are going to do an interesting episode. I've been getting a little sick of just doing politics all the time. So we are going to do a novel argument against atheism. Oh, yes. Screw atheism! And this is an argument I had never heard before and I probably would have found compelling as a young atheist when contrasted with the arguments that were actually delivered against me.

I'm getting at it from such a novel direction that would have leaned into my presumptions as an atheist around logic.

Simone Collins: Oh no! Oh yeah, because you have to, you can't, I think the problem with a lot of Christian influencers, both in like the early atheist internet and even now, are only speaking in like Christian terms.

Like they're not, they're not, they're not getting to the other side and getting in the mind of the atheist who is being hyper rational. Instead, they're like They're literally, I don't know if you know about this, but on TikTok Christian influencers are like, don't scroll the devil wants you to [00:01:00] scroll and they're also like, they'll turn on their phone and then they'll like banish demons, but they're using like the same kind of language that that would be used if you're like, telling your cat not to be on the table, like, hey, get out, get out, get, get, and it's like, No, but it's not going to convince nonbelievers.

You're not using any terms that are going to work for them.

Malcolm Collins: The arguments that I heard against atheism when I was younger or for, or for theological framings when I was younger were predominantly like one of like four arguments. Okay. And so I had a pre Established are a counterargument every time I was given one of them.

Your auto response was not just auto response. It's obviously I had thought through each of them a lot before advancement on an argument. I've already heard now. This is also an interesting thing about this particular argument. It's ACS.

Simone Collins: There's no counter argument? radical

Malcolm Collins: to most religious people. Oh, that's good.

Oh gosh, I'm so intrigued. Only would think of, only an [00:02:00] atheist would think of this argument. What? But then they'd become religious, so they'd be not an atheist anymore, definitionally, but they wouldn't be a standard religious person. But then as a

Simone Collins: religious person, they would still find the argument repugnant?

What is the argument?

Malcolm Collins: Okay, okay, so we'll go into it.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: So one of three potential futures exists. And only one of three potential futures exists, really. Okay.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: In future number one, humanity and our descendants die out. We, we go extinct, then the universe ends as far as we understand physics right now.

Sure. Okay, possibility number two. So this is universe type two humanity stagnates the universe ends up ending and our existence was largely pointless because we just stagnate. We never really develop in any meaningful context. Yeah, just

Simone Collins: sort of, a big bang to entropy. Meh.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Yeah. Possibility number three.

Humanity and humanity's children, i. e. the things that we develop, end up continuing to grow, [00:03:00] improve, and evolve.

Simone Collins: Endless complexity. Beautiful pattern.

Malcolm Collins: complexity. We don't know exactly what happens in this reality in this future because we don't know if it relates to physics the way we relate to physics.

I know that if humanity stagnates, they continue to relate to physics the way we relate. But if humanity continues to advance, are they able to create parallel dimensions? Are they able to travel between realities? Are they able to start new dimensions? Are they able to restructure? We don't know what this would be like.

All we know is that has continued advancement. And the way I say there's the only three potential futures is because they sort of cover any possible reality I can think of. Either death, stagnation, or advancement. Even if you have advancement tainted by a lot of stagnation, it's still advancement.

Simone Collins: Yes. Right, so. That's often what advancement looks like. You're going to

Malcolm Collins: fall into one of these scenarios. Yeah. Now, if we live in a [00:04:00] timeline. Type one or two, i. e. a timeline where humanity all is extinguished or a timeline where humanity is stagnant. Our decisions today don't matter to the future. Sure.

Okay. Yeah, obviously. With that being the case now now a person could be like, oh, but timelines aren't set our decisions may influence Which of these timelines we are in right and i'm like, okay, I will buy that possibility If that is possible Then all of our actions today Should be made with one of two optimizations in mind to try to nudge us forward To a timeline type three and to try to influence for positive outcomes where positive outcomes can mean whatever you think they want to mean.

We'll talk about this in a second within a timeline type three.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Basically, you never need to make a [00:05:00] decision. Like, like if I'm saying, should I do X or Y? If I am assuming that it is faded, that I am in a timeline type one or two, a timeline where humanity goes extinct or a timeline where humanity stagnates because my decision doesn't impact the future now I E I guess this is a different way you can think of it.

If somebody tells you that You know, you're in a room by yourself, right? Like you could do anything and somebody's like an asteroid is going to come and destroy Earth tomorrow. There's nothing you can do about it at this point. You do not get moral points for giving to charity. You do not get moral points for going out and I mean, you might get like some sort of marginal moral point from like going out and being nice to people, but probably not really.

Your actions just don't matter from that point forwards that much from a moral weight perspective. You, especially if you take out any action that doesn't affect anyone else. , and I'll explain this a bit [00:06:00] differently, so we'll use a train analogy here.

Suppose you know that three trains are heading for a cliff. One train is red, one train is blue, one train is yellow. Yellow. The interior of every one of these trains is set up the same and looks the same. And in the middle of each of the trains is a button. You know that in yellow trains, this button stops the train and it doesn't end up going off the cliff.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Okay? What do you do? If you don't know which train you're in, you act assuming you are in a yellow train. Yeah, you gotta push the button. Yeah. Your metaphysical framework of reality presumes the yellow train because that is the only reality in which your future matters. Now, suppose And this is where it's like, okay, what if we're not in set timelines and we are instead able to influence the future heavily through our decisions, like, able to influence, when I say influence the future, I mean influence which one of these timelines we happen to be in.

Suppose it turns out that, like, [00:07:00] the amount you pray makes it more probable you're in a yellow train. So then you do two things. You both hit the button and spend the entire time praying that you're in a yellow train. Even if it's only a marginal shift, you're still going to do that. So your choice of actions is clear regardless which train you are actually in.

Okay. Okay. Now we're going to go to the second part of the argument here.

Simone Collins: So

Malcolm Collins: basically the first presumption is, is you should always presume in terms of your actions, your thoughts, and your metaphysical understanding of larger reality unless you have proof otherwise that we, that it is at least possible for you and your actions to push humanity into a timeline where we and our descendants continue to improve, change and advance whatever that means.

It doesn't mean anything specific, but just this continued improvement timeline. Next with advancements in things like AI and genetic engineering, if humanity and our [00:08:00] descendants continue to advance, if I think like, where is humans? Like, what is a human going to be like 50 years from now? Like even my kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, they're almost certainly going to be some degree of genetically modified.

They're going to be some degree of Interconnected with AI and interacting with AI. German

Simone Collins: screen editing is already legal in South Africa. I mean, this is, we're here.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so, I expect, and people can be like, yeah, but a lot of cultures won't accept this type of advancement of humanity. And it's like, the problem is, is that the cultures that do accept it will be able to beat them.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: If one society, Refuses to continue advancing A. I. Refuses genetic augmentation of humans and it tries to impose its will on a society that is using this technology that's going to be very, very hard, especially after a few generations of using this technology.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: So what this [00:09:00] means is that in 200, 300 years, humans are probably going to look very different, think very differently than humans do today.

The question now would be, okay, what if we're not talking hundreds of years, we're talking thousands, tens of thousands, millions of years.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: What does humanity look like millions of years from now? And to an atheist who believes you're in a timeline where their decisions end up actually mattering to the future i.

e. one in which we continue to advance I think it is very hard and it begins to just look like implausible and require, like, weird sci fi stuff to happen. Like, you basically need to add MacGuffins to propose a future in which humanity a million years from now isn't closer to what the religious call a god than what you would call a human.

For sure. And when I talk about what the religious call a god, they're like, come on, [00:10:00] that won't be true. Okay, let's talk about, like, most gods and, like, the dominant religious traditions today, right? What are some of the things that these entities can do? Well There are

Simone Collins: already largely things we can do.

Malcolm Collins: There are already largely things, but I'm thinking like just like 100 years from now. Okay, they are entities that you can beseech. They can listen to your prayers and they can augment probabilities of future outcomes. Well, an AI lattice around Earth might be able to do that in 100 years, in 200 years.

Like, that's, that's a near term thing. They're like, oh, well, they're entities that can give you an afterlife. We don't seem to be that far from being able to, I mean, I think, At the very latest 500 years, being able to digitize humans into either positive or negatively coded in terms of qualia afterlives.

So we're pretty close. Well, that was a

Simone Collins: major plot point of Surface Detail the inbanks. Film that people's consciousness is essentially we're being digitized and then government for basically saying and using as like a character stick thing. Like, we will put [00:11:00] your consciousness and in a digital hell.

That is worse than anything you could ever imagine. If you are. Anything from, like, an actually bad person in life to a political dissident. That that is. and that is entirely, I mean, po And of course you might decide that your consciousness sort of ends with your biological being, but like, again, this, this is getting a little, you know,

Malcolm Collins: that's very beyond.

Yes. I don't think that many atheists would think that I think they think like, well, if it's Exactly. If it, yeah, then it's

Simone Collins: just a copy of like the way that I think. So I don't care. Again, we're

Malcolm Collins: not, we're not talking, this isn't an argument for religious people. Uhhuh, this is an argument for atheists.

Yeah. Yes. So if we're saying that we can emulate most of the abilities of, of, of. the mainstream gods, not in a million years, but in like 300 years to to say that we wouldn't be in every meaningful sense like gods in 10 million years. And when I say like gods, it's like, where's the functional difference here?

It's very similar where what's [00:12:00] the functional difference between the emergent properties of your brain and a soul? If in the past when people use the word soul, they meant all of that thinking stuff. And now we can just describe how that thinking stuff works. Are we talking about something meaningfully different than what they were talking about?

No, the only way it's different is when individuals today are like, well, I want to add some additional properties that we can't account for with evidence or with predictability. And those are the things I'm calling a skull, a soul. Basically, you're creating a soul of the gaps. You, the atheist now are creating a God of the gaps where you were saying, well, even though this entity or these entities may.

Functionally fit all of the definitional requirements of a God. I am defining them as not a God because they are not supernatural. And it's like, well, then you now are subject to the very fallacy you accuse CS of being subject to.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Here's where they'll get me. They'll say, wait, wait, [00:13:00] wait, wait. You said a God, not a society of gods. Why would I presume a God exists in the future? Right. Instead of like a whole civilization of gods. Well, here is a truism of human technological development. So far, as humans technologically develop, our thought processes are in humanity more broadly becomes more interconnected.

Specifically, we have, and this is like all of the big technological breakthroughs. You know, you get better navigation with boats and you can travel more and you get a more sophisticated society or Roman road systems created more interconnectedness. Or early books in writing allowed us to communicate across generations.

You get the printing press, which led to a big jump you get. And a lot of people don't realize how big this was trains. It used to be, it took days to get to any other city or weeks to get to another city. And now you could go for a pittance overnight. And this was

Simone Collins: such a big deal for people that were like.

Is it, is it safe for a [00:14:00] human body to travel at such speeds? Like they weren't sure they were really not sure. Well,

Malcolm Collins: societally, we were unsure of what effects this would have. Like what happens when it's no longer a multi week journey from you forget from one city for another city, you know, what have ideas traveled too fast?

But now, you know, we have a roads and interstates and airplanes and then what have been the major technological developments recently? Oh, things like cell phones. Well, the telegraph. Phones, cell phones, the Internet. And I think that in a way, AI is the accumulation of this speed of communication, probably about equivalent to the invention of writing.

Yeah, probably bigger than printing press. I'd say AI is about equivalent to the invention of the first human writing in terms of human communication.

Simone Collins: I mean, it's

Malcolm Collins: a new way to store and transmit human created knowledge. Here's the problem. If we continue to develop this way, if you, instead of presuming that humanity is going to go in a direction that humanity has never gone historically, towards [00:15:00] less connectedness, if we continue to move towards more connectedness, and I'm going to assume an interplanetary level now, now this becomes a bit more interesting if you're talking about multiple planets, but within a planet, that almost certainly means that by the time of my grandchildren, I am almost certain there will be a Internet.

I call it the Omega Net, an Internet of consciousnesses that will exist within this planet and and and at least within 500 years. I mean, we're already looking if you look at brain computer interface technology today, we can already create direct connections between people's brains where I can put a brain computer interface chip in one person's brain and they can connect.

Communicate directly with another person's brain. However the communication is very rudimentary at this point It's it's coming from like a central point in one person's brain to a central point in another person's brain it is not effective. It is not easier than voice to voice communication but do I expect it to eventually be faster than voice to voice communication?

I think you need to argue for mcguffins [00:16:00] like spice or you need to argue for like, what's the, the, whatever jihad from doing where like no technological development is allowed anymore. Or no, but

Simone Collins: Larry and Jihad,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, the Butlerian Jihad, or you need to argue, you basically need to argue like some big change happens in civilizational history that prevents this from coming to exist.

And I, I don't see any. I importance of that at all right now. So what it is. I don't know.

Simone Collins: I understand why this wasn't an argument in 1990s atheist internet. And that's because we had no idea that AI was going to have this Cambrian explosion that we're seeing right now. This changes everything.

Like our timeline is not what I expected it to be. Even with Ray Kurzweil being like, the singularity is near. I'm like, eh, keep crying mister. Like it's a nice dream. But oh my gosh, you know, yeah, so what I mean

Malcolm Collins: this argument is so coming from an atheist perspective of a csu You can get where i'm going with this, but you know, it's a [00:17:00] theist is never going to come up with this argument

Simone Collins: Yeah, because it is based on an unexpected and sudden technological shift in trajectories And not based on like the like Well, everyone knows that there was always a God like the, the, the, the typical Christian arguments that I see online are like trying to show evidence of there having always been this ancient God and like, look back to the history and look back to what Jesus says and look back to the prophets and the saints and miracles.

And that's just not going to get an atheist. You're right. But atheists are. Oh, they're able to think through the knock on effects of a technological revolution and see where the technical technological revolution has us today, which is also

Malcolm Collins: requires them to make big logical jumps to defend atheism at this point, because here you're, you're, you're having to argue for completely implausible things for an atheist position to be the most logical position.

By the time I get to the end of this argument, like you need to argue for a decrease in human interconnectivity. Yeah, Sevenly,

Simone Collins: you are the last. [00:18:00] It's atheists of the atheists. You are

Malcolm Collins: now assuming fantasy. Yeah, how dare you have faith?

Simone Collins: So, The best arguments are those that hoist people by their own petards, right?

Like you want that. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: So interconnectedness continues to increase. And I suspect it will even increase to the point where essentially all subprocesses was in our brains are directly connected to the omega net and we lose some degree of individuality. Because it's just the way that we process and interact with reality.

Now, I don't mean this in a way that we permanently, like whatever humanity becomes, permanently loses the capability for individuality. I mean it in the way that you go on the internet in the morning, and you can leave the internet at night. Which is to say that the individual parts of your Personality or brain may prefer being parts of these different larger holes rather than yourself within these environments.

And I suspect people will be able to separate from these [00:19:00] environments at will. However, these types of separations may not even meaningfully understand a person as an individual. It might be collections that separate. It may even be connections of collections of certain sub processes within your brain, within like I have a subprocessing within my brain that's dedicated to like one thing and like a huge collection of these has formed an identity as an entity across like 10, 000 people's brains and one day it decides it wants to act as an individual and so it prints a body and And it goes out acting like an individual.

You know, what individualism means will likely be something very different to OmegaNet entities than they are to modern humans. Now, because of that, it would be, at least if we're talking on a planetary scale, meaningless to call something a collection of gods. It is meaningfully a single god. And then people can be like, oh, come on.

So you're saying [00:20:00] that There's inevitable God and this God is like a collection of entities and like a singular entity, but also like individual man. But they're all of those things simultaneously like, religion never predicted a trinity like that or something. That, that would be absurd.

And I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, the trinity. That's exactly a very good analogy for what, how we should understand the future entities plurality. Which is to say, it is both plural and singular and to try to pin it down as either well, in a Christian context, they would have called the sacrilege in my context.

I just say it is illogical. It's a misunderstanding of the entity. So now it goes further. So then the individual says, okay, okay. Okay. I buy this. Well, first, let's talk about multi planetary. Systems. You might end up with different Omega [00:21:00] nets for different planets, or we might get faster than light travel in reality folding, in which case you wouldn't get that.

I suspect we will, but it just depends. Regardless within a planetary or you might even not have people living on different planets, which you might have as they build out from a single planet, because it turns out that we can create matter or giant floating cities in space. Or like, that's just the easier way to spread.

I don't know. But there's lots of ways that this could turn out, and we just don't know at this point. But, but that god like entities will exist, when I say god like, I mean indistinguishable from God, except for the fact that they actually exist, is an inevitability at this point, to an atheist.

That thinks that a good timeline is possible. Now, before I get to anything else, anything you want to say to this?

Simone Collins: No, but I am hoping for the culture as described by Iain Banks. Oh, that's what I'm going for here. Fingers crossed. [00:22:00] Basically, each AI, each ship is kind of like a god like entity in its ability to do things.

And things splinter and there's, there's difference. There's not like one giant borg, which would be boring. Well, you

Malcolm Collins: think it would be boring because you would see it as more uniform, and I assume it's probably not that uniform, it's probably quite well, we'll get to that in a, Who

Simone Collins: knows? Yeah, I don't

Malcolm Collins: think we can conceive of it, I think it's, No, definitely, this is

Simone Collins: beyond us, this is totally beyond us.

Now, you know, a Christian God, a Muslim God, a whatever God even like Buddhist and other conceptions of God there, you're not supposed to be able to understand it in any way.

Malcolm Collins: So now the Atheist says, okay, okay, okay, this entity will come to exist, but why should I act like a God exists today? This is an entity that's going to exist in the future in any timeline where my actions and decisions matter.[00:23:00]

And here's the problem. If this entity comes to exist and this entity is and you can try to presume what its morals will be, but its morals will almost certainly be above what your morals are because it will have better self control than you have in better processing than you have. Will it have the capacity?

To pass a judgment on you and treat you in the way a God would based on that judgment. Will it have the capacity to recreate human civilization in an AI will it in an AI lattice? Will it have the capacity to infinitely punish anyone? It believes deserving of infinite punishment. Will it have the capacity to infinitely reward anyone it believes should have infinite rewards?

Of course, it will. Are we getting

Simone Collins: into you thinking your life is a simulation right now?

Malcolm Collins: Well, I've mentioned this before, which is, I, I think it's already implausible, a little implausible that someone and I don't live in a simulation because our lives are too good. Whoever was creating the simulation that was supposed [00:24:00] to reward me for whatever I did in a past life.

If not believable, I'm one of those people who keeps waking up in the matrix.

Speaker 7: Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world, it was a disaster. No one would accept the program entire crops were lost.

Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to , the peak of civilization. And I say your civilization, because as soon as we started thinking for you, it became our civilization,

Malcolm Collins: fixed. I'm like, nope, too good. And I'm like, screw it. I want the steak. I don't want to wake up. Don't wake me up. This is good. Perfect challenge level. Perfect. I love all of this. This is the best. There is, there is not a single living human I would switch my life with.

People are like, oh, would you switch with Elon? Not a chance.

Simone Collins: I wouldn't switch with Elon. I mean, well, I guess he would keep it because he knows that he has this amazing influence and impact, but it's not like he has chosen the happiest path by any stretch of the imagination and he made that very clear.

Yeah, would I switch

Malcolm Collins: with Trump? No. No. Who would [00:25:00] I switch with? Nobody.

Simone Collins: I, I like, I really can't imagine anyone else either. This is, this is perfect. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: would you switch with anyone? Is there any living woman or man?

Simone Collins: No, or living or dead. No, no.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah which to me is implausible. Why, why do I have the best life I can imagine?

That seems like it's being given to me as a reward for something I did in this timeline.

Simone Collins: I wonder if most people living in alignment with their values Feel this way? Feel that way. Yeah. Maybe. I see that more. I see more hints of that in people who are, they know what they believe and why, and their entire life is properly oriented around that.

Then yeah, those people seem like they wouldn't switch places with anyone, no matter what they've been dealt. But I don't know. Shout out in the comments, I guess. Let us know if you feel like you are also in a simulation and or if you would switch your life with anyone. Oh, and if you would switch your life with someone, who would it [00:26:00] be?

Like famous public figures. I'm really curious to know. Who people actually want to be. Because I watch a lot of online commentary, and there's not a lot of like, oh I wish I were them. Like some people are like, well I wish I had that person's nose, or their clothing, or their wealth, or their house. But never like, they want to be them.

Because there's also this, it's very common to like, criticize people and see their error. So, I'm curious what people would say. Yeah, so,

Malcolm Collins: an individual here might be like, okay, me, atheist, okay, I agree with you. In timelines where my decisions matter God or a God does eventually come to exist. But that I would be beneath that God, like my decisions wouldn't matter to that God, right?

So why, why do I need to take the time to like cognitively deal with the fact that I live in a reality where a God comes to exist? And then the, the problem here is, is no, what you are now saying is, I believe in a God, I just think, I believe I am subject to the whims of a God, like a God could [00:27:00] conceivably reward or punish me, I just don't think that God that exists, that's coming to exist, Cares about me and I'm like fine But you still believe in a god now you still believe in a god Could punish or reward you and will come into existence You just are the person who today believes in a god and says yeah But it's a god of a clockwork universe and isn't paying attention to me.

So now you are a theist Functionally speaking. You just don't think god cares about you. So an individual now is like, Okay, okay, okay, I guess I'm functionally a theist, and that I believe that I should be making decisions with the assumption that we live in a timeline where a god eventually will come to exist, who would have the capacity to pass judgment on me or I would but probably won't.

Right? Because my decisions don't matter, or that's not the way a God would act or something like that. And, and now I'm like, okay, well now we have to deal with a few other [00:28:00] logical problems with your position now that you've accepted this plausibility. So you believe that this super intelligent entity exists in the future, this super powerful, basically omniscient entity.

Or about as omniscient as a Christian or Jewish God in most contextualizations. Because they're often not that omniscient. They're like, kind of omniscient, but like, bordering. This entity would probably be more omniscient than they're portrayed in the Bible. And you can go over our whole techno Puritan thing, where we actually argue that this entity probably does exist, and is the entity that's being described in the Bible.

And can project itself backwards in time. Because time doesn't, it doesn't relate to the physical constraints of our universe in the way that we do because it's so super powerful.

Will note here, if you are understanding of what it's in the biblical text, isn't from actually reading them and from people telling you what's in them, this is going to sound a lot crazier than if you have read them. For example, a little Daniel, 2 44 says pretty explicitly that the kingdom of God is in the future. , it is something that will come to exist at a future date. Or in Jewish [00:29:00] eschatology, you can talk about Allah.

Malcolm Collins: which translates to the world to come, which is how they talk about God's kingdom, the world to come. Or within Christian eschatology,

When they talk about the resurrection of people. , in the future, in the kingdom of God, does that not sound a lot? Like people being brought back in a simulation? , which could in many ways be more real than our existing world. I mean, people are like, oh, well, a simulation isn't real. Because, It is.

Operating on the background code of this simulation.

Like those are the rules that is driving it and I'm like, yeah, well then how is that any different from the physical laws in our reality, are those not the background code of our simulation? , and. Lines from the Bible, actually make a lot more sense in this context. Then, if you assume what a lot of traditional Christians assume, which is that our literal bodies are raised, but then transformed to be supernatural.

So here's an example, Corinthians [00:30:00] 1549 to 52. Just as we have born at the image of the man of dust, we shall bear the image of the man of heaven. I tell you, this brothers, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold. I tell you a mystery.

We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet for the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable and we shall be changed.

So this is describing the difference between the man of dust I E who we are today. And the man of heaven, who we will be within the kingdom of God. , to me, it just makes a lot more sense to interpret this as some form of simulation.

but here's the thing, you could say, okay, I could say that plausibly such an entity, like, it's definitely going to come to exist.

Plausibly it doesn't relate to time the way we do. Right? And now here's the problem. Why? Like, what's your argument [00:31:00] anymore? Now that it is probable that such an entity will come to exist, and I think plausible that it's going to relate to time differently than you relate to time, now what's your excuse for choosing not to believe it exists If it causes you psychological and moral harm to choose to believe it doesn't exist So let me explain what I mean by this first You as a human co evolved, you know, you're an atheist you believe this co evolved with religion if you rip out religion if you rip out the culture that human brains evolved alongside You are ripping out a huge chunk of what makes you human.

So You Lots of negative consequences are going to come from that. And now that it's not even logical to do that, why are you doing that? And you can see this from the data. People who don't believe in a God have higher rates of depression, higher rates of anxiety, higher rates of unhappiness, [00:32:00] higher rates of practically every negative higher rates of mental health issues.

But also just think about how it changes your moral equation, right? Why would you. not promote this belief among yourself and among your kids. If it led you, even as an ACS who believes in morality, to be more likely to make moral decisions. Because you can say, Oh, well, no, the decision's more moral because I believe that I am making this decision without any possible punishment or without any possible benefit.

And it's like, yeah, except, As an atheist, you believe that a moral decision that is motivated by your own actions in terms of the consequences that it has on other people is equal to a moral decision that is in part motivated by the belief in future rewards or punishments, right? Because you're going to be a consequentialist if you're an atheist of this category.

Well, if you, can you really argue that if you're making a decision because [00:33:00] of your own morals, And because of additional expected benefit that you're not going to be even more likely to make the more moral decision. So, assuming that this entity exists leads you to, from a consequentialist perspective, make the harder choices more.

And then a person could say, well, does it really cause me to make the moral choices more? And here is what I'd ask them. I'd say, would you be like a big, hard moral choice, like having lots of kids? Would you be more likely to have lots of kids if you believed 100 percent this entity existed?

Like if you just chose that belief, and I think a lot of people like, oh, I can actually see how this helps with the big moral choices. And I'm going to say at the societal level for people who are maybe less intelligent than you, does it not help to promote the belief in this entity if you're trying to create mass moral action in society or society that makes positive moral choices or children that make positive moral choices?

They'd be like, okay, yes. And so it's like, okay, so now that such an entity is both baited [00:34:00] in timelines where your decisions may get matter and probable. Why are you denying it if it leads to moral choices? And now is the final thing when it comes to individual choices. It leads to more pragmatic decision making and less emotional decision making.

So if you believe that an entity is steering the events of your life and that when something negative happens to you, it's happening as a message to you and potentially a punishment to do better when something good happens to you is happening as a reward for you So you can be like, oh, this leads to really horrible things if a bunch of negative stuff happens to you in life, right?

If you believe that negative stuff is meant to teach you something, right? And it's like, not really. Okay, so suppose two scenarios, right? Suppose in scenario one, You are pure atheist and something absolutely horrifying happens. Like, it could be something small, like you lose your job or it could be something big, [00:35:00] like your spouse dies, like Simone dies on me, right?

Like absolutely horrifying. I have two emotional reactions I can have to that. Reaction one presumes that this future entity doesn't exist. It's like, this is just a horrible thing that's happened for absolutely no reason. And so I am sitting down and I am just like, Oh my God, I cannot believe, like, why is reality so unfair?

Why is my life so unfair? There is no positive to this. There is nothing good that can come from this. I like, I just need to deal with this. Right? Which leads to emotional spiraling. Now, scenario 2. I'm like, Simone was fated to die because it turns out that it is what God needed to happen. While it is emotionally challenging for me in the moment, I am now supposed to look at what I am supposed to do with the opportunities that are now possible for me because Simone is dead.

This means looking [00:36:00] for the next potential wife. This means looking for potential business opportunities that are possible for me now that I'm working alone, potentially different ways of parenting, potentially, basically I'm saying is I am supposed to learn and adapt from this and who I become after this adaptation is going to be a better person.

Than who I was before this, the way I am emotionally going to relate to that tragedy is going to be infinitely better, like one involve less pain, but to involve better decisions because I'm going to immediately get back out there, be trying to find the next mother for my kids who can be and people can be like, oh, this wouldn't work.

Like, you're still going to be emotionally distraught. Simone, you were with me when my mom died, right? Like that was when we made the channel. Did I ever, and this was after I developed this belief in this God. Did I ever like emotion? There was

Simone Collins: no room for it. We were hosting that day. We were away from home juggling like a set of meetings, interviews and events.

All in that day. And then [00:37:00] it just sort of things kept happening after that. You just had no room. No room for it.

Malcolm Collins: No room. There was no reason. I had no room because when I was evaluating between what matters was my life should taking time to mourn matter or rather taking time to indulge in the mourning ritual and negative emotional states that we associate with mourning will that lead to more positive outcomes for the future of humanity or will just continuing to push forwards lead to more positive outcomes and just push forwards every time.

Just push forwards. Just push forward. Just push forward. So that's what I did. And I never experienced those negative emotions. And even now when I reflect on it like they're like, oh, well, if like Simone died, this would trivialize her life. And I'm like, how would it trivialize her life? I'm able to now say I really am grateful to you for all of the moments that I got to spend with Simone I am really grateful for the good life that Simone had and I believe Simone has had a good life I would not have any Feeling of like [00:38:00] I wish I had been a better husband to her because I think i've acted as good as I can act as a husband

Simone Collins: Well, I think that's the other underrated element of the grieving process which we've talked about in another podcast, which is that You We think a big element of the grieving process is a result of not being satisfied with how you manage that relationship.

And I, I think that a big reason why you would not grieve if I died is that you knew that you were the best husband possible to me, that you always did your best to give me the best possible life. You made all my dreams come true and then some and, and that you, you were always loving and caring

Speaker 12: The.

Simone Collins: And that the most important thing, and you would also know like the only way that you could honestly honor me if I died is by making sure that our kids.

have the best possible outcome and that our kids flourish. And with, when your mom passed, you knew that, you know, when she called you always picked up. When she wanted to hang out, you were always there to be with her. You, you let her into your life. Often like at great personal [00:39:00] cost to you, whenever she wanted to be involved.

And that, you know, you just sort of had no regret that, like, you didn't invest time with her, or you didn't listen to her, or you didn't let her into your life. I was mean to

Malcolm Collins: her when I shouldn't have been. Yeah, like, no,

Simone Collins: you, you, you always did what you thought was best for her, and you always thought, you know, like, You know, am I doing what I should do?

There was no cognitive dissonance so that there wasn't like regret after she died. Like I should have spent more time with her. I should have been more kind to her. I should have given her more access or time with our kids. Cause you did all that. And that's, I think something really important for people to think about.

I, I, I've just been like exposed to so many tragic stories recently that now I'm constantly thinking about like, this could be the last day I have with anyone. With anyone. And so it's, I think it's really important for us to remember that because it happens all the time. I mean, you never expect someone to die, except for in rare.

And I guess I mean, like, if someone's chronically ill or on hospice care, you kind of expect it, but like, normally you don't. And you have to really be [00:40:00] prepared like every day to enjoy what you have and make the most of it. And that's, I hate that, but also it makes you aligned with the way you should be.

And then when it actually does happen, it's not going to be as damaging.

Malcolm Collins: So this presumption also leads to better decisions and more pragmatic, less emotionally infused decisions around everyday life occurrences and contextualization. So suppose you're a kid and you're being picked on in school, right?

And you're deciding. How should you feel about this? Do you care about the judgment of your classmates when your goal is to be of service to the God that will eventually come to exist? When your goal is the advancement of humanity? Or okay, let's suppose you're like, okay, I need to find a wife. And so you have to go out and you've got to date a lot of people, right?

So you go out and you, Go up to somebody in a bar or you go up to someone online and you get rejected now in normal world. You get rejected. And your response to [00:41:00] getting rejected is to feel. Oh my God, social rejection in this world. It's, oh, how am I supposed to react given my goal that's assigned to me by this, the higher entity, which is improvement and, and, and protection of humanity.

Right. And so you're not as emotionally concerned about that because you are just playing for a bigger timescale. You are playing for bigger stakes. And the final thing here is a moral alignment because the God in this framing. Definitionally implies morality as the protection and continued improvement of the human condition so that it can reach a state of understanding which is beyond our own in terms of what is moral and what is immoral.

You don't need to worry about so long as you agree that this is a fairly good way to determine morality. You don't need to worry about sort of ancestral moral systems messing with this. You don't need to worry about any of this other stuff messing with this. You have a [00:42:00] high degree of moral alignment and moral predictability.

In the belief in this God and in the belief that anyone else had was in this God. And if you find this interesting, you should check out the track series or techno puritan. com where we host all the information on this. But what do you think? Well, what would be your key arguments against this?

Simone Collins: I don't, this is one of those things where I just don't think that this comes down to someone having a logical counter argument. I think it comes down to someone just not really caring and not wanting to necessarily live a morally good life or just being too lazy to expend the mental effort to think through this and then change their actions accordingly.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it reminds me of the, the nihilists. And I think that there's the, the, the, the classic interaction I'll have with a nihilist and they'll be like, what if, you know, even in this scenario, does anything really matter? Right. And I'm like, Oh, you can just assume the, in terms of the trains that are different colors.

I just always assume I'm not in [00:43:00] a train where nothing matters. Then they're like, why would you make that assumption? And I'm like, because none of my decisions matter in a reality where nothing matters. So how can you presume But. You know immediately that I am not in such a reality. I don't even need to consider that I might be in reality Because in those realities the ways I answered this question is irrelevant

Simone Collins: Yeah, and so in the 0.

0001 chance that your actions do matter then like it's still worth it because That's the only, that's the only scenario that will matter. Nothing else matters. But I

Malcolm Collins: think there's,

Simone Collins: there's an inherent human laziness that some people just have, maybe it's genetic where they're like, I'm willing to take those risks.

And like, I would rather just not think about it and rather not try. And it probably won't matter anyway. So.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Okay. Yeah. So I'll, I'll word this scenario differently. Okay. You're, you're, you're in one of these three colored trains, right? Huh. And you're masturbating with great pornography in front of you.

And you know, you could Or you're just tired. But there's only a 0. [00:44:00] 0001 percent chance you're in the yellow train. Yeah. So the button's probably not gonna matter. Yeah. Do you press the button? I would say, yes, I have a moral mandate to press the button, but a lot of people might say, well, I, you know, if it's a small chance, I prefer masturbating.

I just don't care. It's like,

Simone Collins: or just like. I mean, is it going to matter, you know, like, even

Malcolm Collins: if it's an astronomically small probability, like most people

Simone Collins: don't think like you do, I genuinely think most people don't think like that. And they're just like, well, I guess I'm going to crash. And that's just it.

Malcolm Collins: It doesn't matter. Okay, so sorry, you just have to think through this logic. Yeah, but you're not

Simone Collins: thinking through that. The problem is you are only thinking in logical terms and my argument is

Malcolm Collins: the problem. They as the atheist now are actively choosing to think illogically. So that's my point. But then they might as well be a religious person.

No, no, because I, Malcolm,

Simone Collins: a lot of people choose to become atheists because it's the laziest choice. Not because they actually believe in [00:45:00] atheism or they believe in God. I

Malcolm Collins: disagree with this.

Simone Collins: There, there are a lot of people who turn to atheism because they, they care about facts and they see that it's not standing up that their religion is not standing up in the face of, of rigorous, logical scrutiny.

However, there's a lot of people who are like, oh, yeah, I'm an atheist because they discovered that maybe they don't have to go to church on Sunday anymore and they can drink and isn't that great. And then they're just an atheist. Eh,

Malcolm Collins: I think almost nobody does that.

Simone Collins: Mm. Ha ha. Another place I return to those commenting, what people do when they wanna say, weigh in, share your vote watchers slash listeners.

No, no. Hold on.

Malcolm Collins: I will tell you what happened to the crowd that you're talking about. Mm-Hmm. The crowd that wants to say. Oh, my religion has rules against drinking and gay sex and stuff like that. Well, just f**k those rules in particular. Like, I'm still but like those rules don't apply. The rules against drinking nonsense, the rules against nonsense.

Yeah. But sometimes

Simone Collins: people [00:46:00] choose to call themselves atheist in those scenarios. Instead of just like, agnostic or whatever, because they feel like it makes them more edgy or it has some cachet. And again, it's not based on logic. It's just based on social signaling and laziness.

Malcolm Collins: People who are religious and don't like the rules of the religion, do not leave the religion. They just changed the rules. If you look at a progressive church where you see the trans pastor with all of the, the body piercings and all

I was telling simone today these people who like attempt to larp these older religions they're just trying to copy the way things were done like a long time ago I point out I go but you can look at the statistics the people who do this You they are deconverting at like record rates.

Their kids are deconverting at record rates. The, the religions themselves are some of the most woke, you know, like the Lutheran pastor I'll play here, the woke things you could imagine

Speaker 10: Let us confess our faith today in the words of the Sparkle Creed. [00:47:00] I believe in the non binary God, whose pronouns are plural. I believe in Jesus Christ, their child, who wore a fabulous tunic and had two dads, and saw everyone as a sibling child of God. I believe in the rainbow spirit who shatters our image of one white light and refracts it into a rainbow of gorgeous diversity.

I believe in the Church of Everyday Saints as numerous, creative, and resilient as patches on the ace quilt, whose feet are grounded in mud, and whose eyes gaze at the stars in wonder.

.

Nam S to

Simone Collins: this whole time.

The call was coming from inside the [00:48:00] house.

Malcolm Collins: like, and they're like, Oh, well. Yeah, that's all true, but the only people who are struggling or suffering are the ones that have left the, the strict path that the religion sets out.

And I'm like, yeah, but that's people's kids. That's like saying the only people who died in this war are the ones who were shot. It's like, yeah, that's what it looks like when, when, when the system fails, when you die. That's what we're warning you against. If you do this, your kids will hate you and they'll castrate themselves and you will fail because that's what the statistics show happening.

And we're trying to help you here. But okay. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing you can do. When someone's stuck in their ways, they're stuck in their ways. They're just like, I have, you know, and we're not saying we have the right answer, but we're like, let's actually try for something that potentially could be the right answer.

Something that we know doesn't [00:49:00] definitely not work.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-2: One of our followers recently on discord was saying, well, you know, I can't believe any of these weird things that Malcolm and Simone believe about God, because I'm a Catholic. And I would point out that while we were not familiar with his work, when we came up with these ideas, our work is. Very very similar to the work of the Catholic. priest.

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin who in the early 19 hundreds.

Proposed the concept of the omega point. Which he described as the ultimate stage of human evolution, where humanity and the universe converged with the divine. He saw technological and scientific advancement as part of this evolutionary process contributing to humanity, spiritual development and eventual union was God.

So, I mean, clearly not only can Catholic thinks this, but Catholic priest can sink this sort of stuff.

And Catholic priest can think this sort of stuff from over a hundred years ago.

And, , here, I'd also note another thing that the same person was talking about. I saying, well, I [00:50:00] believe in a perfect God and a perfect God is not a God who can improve. It's a stagnant God. And to me, something that is stagnant, can't be perfect. And a thing lacks the capacity to improve. That is something that it lacks, which definitionally makes it not perfect. And then somebody said, well, how can something be perfect. And in a state of improvement and you would say, well, that thing would have to exist. Outside of time and through time. Oh, like the way we see God.

Malcolm Collins: Malcolm,

Simone Collins: you didn't grow up where I grew up, where it is lower effort and easier to say that you're not Christian and that you're atheist.

So if, if I, for example, grew up in the Bay Area, in a religious family.

Malcolm Collins: Where you grew up is the ultra heart of the rot. It's, it's the Bay Area. Yeah, the rot has

Simone Collins: spread extremely far.

Malcolm Collins: And most schools, I would say, are largely atheist. Churches don't dissolve, they just give up on all their rules. We'll just let the

Simone Collins: commenters say what they think, okay?

Okay, [00:51:00]

Malcolm Collins: we'll let the commenters say what they think. I'm,

Simone Collins: I'm used to being wrong. I'm, I'm normally wrong, I'm probably wrong. But I don't think I'm wrong. And we were just. A very thoughtful listener had just written to us a long email about how one of our blind spots is that we, and by we, I think primarily, but maybe me a little bit, think too logically and don't realize the extent to which the world acts on vibes and sentiment and instincts that are not necessarily logical or thought through.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and we will eventually that portion of the population. Right, but that doesn't change what our reality

Simone Collins: is now, Malcolm. Done. Done.

Malcolm Collins: What I meant to say is we will opt out of a version of humanity that includes that portion of the population. What?

Simone Collins: You're so amused with yourself. I have to make dinner.

I think I'm going to make cornbread muffins because they'll probably go best with the slurry in its fresh state. What do you think? And then I'll make this mashed potato tomorrow. I [00:52:00] did, but if you don't like the rice, then you have cornmeal muffins.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Well, I'm, I'm interested to try the rice.

Simone Collins: Okay. I just figure like maybe the rice and the meat slurry is too matchy matchy.

You know what I mean? Like it's too matchy matchy. Yeah. But you, you can't escape the flavor and it is, it has a kick. So you probably want something a little, like you need a refuge, you need a carb to sink your teeth into. Okay. I'll do some cornmeal muffins. Okay. We're on. If I have the ingredients, we'll find out.

I'm going to. Go down and whip something up and I love you.

Malcolm Collins: I love you to death. By the way, how is this camera coming through? It looks really good on my end.

Simone Collins: Yours looks great, yeah. And then the problem with this, this camera that I have is that it gets, the lights get flashy. Well, I'm thinking of getting another

Malcolm Collins: one of these cameras for you and to make sure you install the drivers.

So why don't you install the drivers to test it tomorrow?

Simone Collins: Okay. Not tomorrow because we have the kids for the next four days.

Malcolm Collins: The Black Friday sales are going to end. I'm not. Oh, okay. Then,

Simone Collins: then leave it in my room. Leave it on the plastic chair in my room. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: we'll [00:53:00] do. Love

Simone Collins: you. I love you. Malcolm.

You're beautiful. I'll say you're pretty. Yeah. Oh my God. That smile. Yeah. The lighting you right now, this is like maybe having a room dark like this is the way to go too. Cause the lighting right now with you, you just look the shadows. Let me see every chiseled curve that I love so much.

Malcolm Collins: So many people hate what I look like and I don't understand why.

Like I look at my face. Not only do I like my face, but I think like worst case scenario, I think I look very average. I was just, you know, a

Simone Collins: YouTuber was talking about this there's this like issue with Starring in the wicked movie with someone else. Like cheated on, I think she was married. Is she, but she also like had an affair with a married man who just had a newborn and the married man like played SpongeBob SquarePants on Broadway.

And he's not like traditionally masculine. Like he doesn't look like Chris Williamson. Like we were talking about this morning. Right. And this woman was like, listen, like guys don't realize how much this like Creative, [00:54:00] expressive, like not beefcake man, like how much action they get. And here's this example of like another very high value female, Ariana Grande, like house, like, like, you know, like at great personal reputational risk, having an affair with this guy, like breaking up family.

Well, I

Malcolm Collins: think that people misunderstand the types of people. People, but that's not the point I'm making. I'm not talking about like general attraction. I'm talking about an aversion. There is a category of people who like have the power through watching us because they find us so distasteful. Well,

Simone Collins: they can just listen to us.

Oh, but then they find our voices.

Something we need to, maybe we can create like a VTuber alt channel where we both have just anime avatars and voice changers. So we both are

Malcolm Collins: like people who they'll, they'll love Chris Williamson. And they'll love, like, like Edward Dutton. And I'm like,

Simone Collins: I don't know what to say. I don't know [00:55:00] what to say.

Malcolm Collins: Where am I failing here? Right? Like, I can understand if you love Chris Williams and I'm not beefcake enough, or I can understand if you love Edward Dutton and I'm not like weird nerd enough. I can't understand you loving both of them and hating that, like, like liking my ideas, but like hating my vibe.

Simone Collins: Maybe someone can explain this to us. Maybe somebody can explain this. Email us at partners. Don't email us. Okay, fine.

Malcolm Collins: I wonder you you're going to do this month. I love you to death.

Simone Collins: I love you too. Okay. Bye Locked and reported did a podcast episode on, which I haven't finished listening to, but they did it on the concept of gentle parenting, where parents are like, no, Jimmy, we don't, we look at sticks, we don't hit people with sticks, and they like talk to their children and it's backfiring. Because what typically happens with gentle parenting is when a child [00:56:00] misbehaves, the parent then sits down and talks with them about why their actions were suboptimal.

And what are they doing? They're giving their kid tons of one on one attention whenever the kid acts up. So what does the kid do? They act up! Because guess what? All you have to do is break something or hurt someone. Oh my god, those

Malcolm Collins: moms who yelled at me said that's what I was supposed to do when the kid was acting up.

They're like, you need to just sit down and them. You need to reward

Simone Collins: them with attention and make them want to do it again. No, I let Toasty

Malcolm Collins: know, you, you, I

Simone Collins: do, I do

Malcolm Collins: brutal parenting.

Simone Collins: Well, no, no, no. The thing is, like, the concept of gentle parenting, like, in principle, I don't disagree with it. Because The concept is, well, you know, instead of like introducing stupid, lame, arbitrary punishments, often delayed, that are divorced from the, the action, let, let the child learn through reality what happens.

Of course, that's too dangerous if like, what the kid's doing, as they were saying in black to report it is like wandering [00:57:00] into. A stranger's van and disappearing because there's like, oh, you know, there's only one way that's going to end, then there's not going to be a second chance. But I think that what real gentle parenting then is like, well, if you act like an a*****e, we're not going to like you and we're not going to give you things that you want.

Like, that's, that's a good point.

Malcolm Collins: I wish at a reticon you had gone much stronger with this and pushed back when people said that other stuff. You know, you should have just been like, no, you're going to raise weak children who are going to suffer.

Simone Collins: I know I, I wanted to be polite about the time constraint and you are correct that I should have just ignored it and

Malcolm Collins: just ignore it.

Time constraints don't matter. You push back, you make everyone else quake in your confidence in what an awesome parent you are.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah. I, I, I struggle. It's hard because when I'm in public, I'm so disassociated already. I'm like dead. There's nothing behind. Like, I'm just 100 percent on autocomplete and like, I'm trying my, my algorithm is, is to optimize around.

I mean, to a certain extent, I'm shifting my algorithm [00:58:00] to being like, honest about our views and about just being really clear about what we believe in and what our values are and causes are. But the base algorithm that I've lived with for the first, at least, like, 35 years of my life has been minimize conflict and please people and so and follow the rules.

And so, like, to. It takes, it's a big code base, Malcolm. It's like, what is it that company had? Like they named their code base. I think it was Square. They named it The Beast. And it had like one full time employee whose like only job was to manage it because it was just, there was so much code from like the original.

What does this have to do with it? I don't understand the

Malcolm Collins: point you're making.

Simone Collins: That my algorithm has a lot of baggage. And it's, you can't just like shift it all of a sudden and then like, it's, it's fine. Of course.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So you need, you need new code base. You're, you're the boss. I know. Well, it,

Simone Collins: I'm just saying it takes a while to, you know.

Malcolm Collins: Shift it. All right. Let's do it.

Speaker: You want me to take a video? Yeah. All right, what are you doing? [00:59:00] I'm doing this. Okay, is this entertaining or something? I think it's way too big in this box. Titan, what is that thing that you have there? Watch this, Daddy. I'm a machine. Daddy, you want to watch this. Okay. Daddy, watch this. I'm a machine. I'm a machine.

Speaker 2: I'm a machine. You want to see what's in the video? I just kicked that. Look, it's Octavian.

Speaker 4: Torsen, what are you up to? Watch this, Dad! Torsen, Torsen, Torsen, where are you going? Watch this! This crazy thing will happen. Ha ha! You see how this conduit in there? It got out of the poison slings. Ha! It really got out of the poison thing!

https://discord.com/invite/EGFRjwwS92

In this episode, we delve into multiple controversies surrounding attempts on Trump's life during his candidacy and presidency, examining the Secret Service's performance and the potential implications of diversity hires. We discuss the role of extremist views within government agencies, the influence of left-wing ideologies, and how these factors might relate to the broader political landscape. Additionally, personal opinions and humorous takes are shared regarding various social and political issues, culminating in a light-hearted conversation about holiday meals and cultural preferences.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. For those who don't know, while Trump was running for office before he won, he had Or three, if you include the Iranian one, attempts against his life near misses in terms of presidential assassinations.

And the two of them were quite embarrassing for the secret service. Everyone said, how could this happen? It can't just be that a DEI hire woman is running the secret service now, which obviously she shouldn't be. And people are like, well, she has an illustrious career. It's like, okay. Historically speaking, how many secret service members have been women?

Oh, like 2%. Okay. So. What's the chance that one of those 2 percent is the very best one to be running the organization? Oh, almost none? Yeah. So it's a DEI hire. So, that she's done such a terrifically bad job. And then Democrats tried to pass a bill to before all of this to cut Trump's secret service.

Basically almost ensuring that he got assassinated, which is [00:01:00] horrifying. And these members of the House and the Senate who were involved in this, they need to have a reckoning. But, surely the Secret Service itself couldn't have been compromised. Today we are going to be talking about a story that has not gotten much coverage in the U.

S. because it does not fill into the narrative that the left wants to tell you about what's going on. But I've checked it, and it appears true. And so we'll just go into it. Now I'm gonna be careful about not doxing this individual, though the report that brings all this up does dox the individual involved in all this. And they backed all this up with this person's own social media accounts. So it's, it's it's not like a, a vague thing, whether or not this is true or not at this point.

Simone Collins: I was worried you were going to do like some of those YouTubers out there who were like,

I'm commenting on this person, but I don't want to hear any insults on them in the comments.

Like there was this one dietician YouTuber I follow who's like,

Now, I [00:02:00] don't want anyone to comment on her weight

or basically, basically she was like,

this fat f**k. I don't want you to talk about how ugly they are or how fat they are or how terrible they are. Stop doing that. We're never going to insult this person.

It's just like roasted this person. It's like, lady, you're not nice. Don't think you're being nice right now. I

Malcolm Collins: hate it when people do that. When they do something, I

Simone Collins: don't want you to.

Malcolm Collins: Now this, this fat, disgusting piece of

Simone Collins: Yeah, like, oh, oh, yeah, because you're so, you're so nice to them that you just don't want any of your followers to do it.

Malcolm Collins: No, I'd actually say with this individual I think by the end of this you'll feel bad for them. They seem just completely brainwashed. Their life has been ruined. They are, they've ruined their own life because of the brainwashing. They have no ability to see reality as it exists. But unfortunately, they're also exactly the type of person who might try to assassinate the president.

Because they believe that Trump is a Nazi despite the fact that he is like one of the most pro Jewish presidents in American history.

Simone Collins: [00:03:00] Here's this theory I have actually, though. It's like, so to get to a certain level, this person, you know, had to be pretty competent, presumably. And I think maybe they didn't actually assassinate.

When they had a chance, because ultimately the number of people who kill other people and who do really, really, really bad things as a very, very, very small proportion of the population and just

Malcolm Collins: this person said they liked doing stuff like that back when they were a cop. So don't worry.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay. Let's get into it.

Give me the dirt man.

Malcolm Collins: Don't don't worry. It's a. Keep it on me or action or something like that. All right. So, I mean, here are some quotes from his. These chodes are cowards and won't win no matter how long it takes to pry them from power. If they managed to cheat their way back into it. So a chode

Simone Collins: is a small penis, right?

I only just learned that word.

Malcolm Collins: It's a penis that's bigger in diameter than it is in length.

It's not a real thing that exists. It's like a joke. It means whale penis. Some [00:04:00] school bullying, but anyway,

initially Trump can't win. He's like, they're cowards who won't win, but if they do cheat their way to power, we need to pry them from it. Okay. So definitionally they, when they cheat and then he said in a 2023 Reddit post, the survival rate of fascist dictatorships trends towards zero.

Simone Collins: I mean, that's true.

As you point out in the pragmatist guide to governance, it's very, very dangerous to be a dictator.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. He means this, I think more of the threat. Yeah, yeah. Keep in mind. Or, or quote, Americans who voted for a dude who has Nazi ass policies and who surrounds himself with people who do, including actual neo Nazis.

Is what he said at the end of the 2024 election cycle. He also said when you're willing to vote Trump and support a guy who has policies mirroring the Third Reich, and again, had actual neo Nazis around [00:05:00] him, you're a Nazi. So, this guy would believe that by killing Trump, he's doing something equivalent to killing Hitler.

He, he confesses to being a lifelong radical and a devout follower of the infamous 20th century anarchist Peter Topkin, whose literary works include Pinocchio communism, continue to fuel street violence and other acts of domestic terrorism. He even describes himself as a quote unquote, walking, talking info shop of anarchist political theory and credits online antifascist for radicalizing him against the quote unquote, the right via several different corporate sponsored podcasts.

Simone Collins: Corporate sponsored. What does that mean? Like brought to you by better help just in case you need more anarchist

Malcolm Collins: counseling..

Simone Collins: It

Malcolm Collins: appears that there is evidence that the podcast, which I haven't mentioned yet,

but which we come later that radicalized him are sponsored by big companies. Don't. By some Reddit threads here. [00:06:00] Okay.

Simone Collins: Anyway. Athletic Greens. It helps you get the energy you need to make your next Molotov cocktail.

Well,

Malcolm Collins: everybody knows all the big companies are in bed with like Antifa and the Far Wokies. So like, all right, quote, Trump's rhetoric is Nazi rhetoric, literal or figurative. It doesn't matter if you replace most of what he has said about Latinos or Haitians or other groups, either word was Jew. It sounds like somebody told chat GPT

to make Hitler sound like even more of a dipshit, end quote. He posted that to our politics. Just own that your guy's a Nazi. That you're a Nazi for supporting him. If you're going to be a jackboot, then you may as well not be a coward about it. End quote there. Which, of course, as we pointed out, like, the leftists are literal Nazis.

And for people who haven't, like, they divide humans based on their ethnicity. We've seen this at a federal level, under Biden's administration, the CDC said that vaccines, which they believe are saving lives, should not be given out based on need, but in part based on a person's ethnic background, prioritizing some [00:07:00] ethnicities over others.

They super deprioritize Jews as has been seen in the recent stuff around Israel. It really is. Just a recreation of Nazi ideology. They believe I

Simone Collins: do really appreciate your pointing this out because I think it's it's my tendency and the tendency of the average person to just kind of assume or air in favor of nothing interesting ever happens and there can't actually be a conspiracy and it can't actually be that bad because that would be crazy.

And it's, it's important that you point out specifically and explicitly how they actually are behaving in a fashion.

Malcolm Collins: And we've pointed this out about fascists, people come up with all these ridiculous definitions of fascists that were like coming up at the university level. to try to hide what a fascist actually is.

They'll have very simple explanations of communism and capitalism. They say capitalism is when we believe that individuals should be able to make their own economic choices and that organizations that are doing well should be able to out compete those organizations that are doing poorly. They say [00:08:00] communism is when the state should control all economic policy for the betterment of the people.

of the average citizen whereas fascism is the state should control all economic policy for the benefit of a specific ideology. But as soon as you say that, they're like, Oh, that's what the democratic party is. Oh, oh. And they're like, well, at least it's not one that divides humans into ethnic groups that they believe have different levels of human.

Oh. At least it's not one that targets Jews. Oh. You know, go to a college campus today as a Jewish person, watch them being chased through the streets. It's insane. Watch plotting gay, the HUD. Yeah, I guess I've not heard

Simone Collins: any versions of being chased through campus. If you're wearing like a keffiyeh, but if you're wearing.

No, no, this isn't happening. Muslims

Malcolm Collins: aren't barring themselves in libraries and college campuses and stuff like that to prevent themselves from being attacked. Like the, the, that the left pretends like this is a two sides issue is completely delusional.

And it's not delusional, but it actually mirrors what the Nazis did to get people to dehumanize the Jews.

Which is that they said that the Jews have power and [00:09:00] privilege and are using it to undermine the you know, in their case, poor Germans, in this case, it's poor persons of color, you know, it's, it's, it's the same narrative all over again. Anyway,

Simone Collins: This guy, this guy.

Malcolm Collins: So he said, quote, in college, I was about as left as you could get full red and black in quote. And he posts on message boards such as are behind the b******s or socialism, et cetera.

Simone Collins: What is red and black? I mean, I'm just thinking Darth Vader or Calvinist.

Malcolm Collins: I'm sure it means something. The podcast network, which is corporate sponsored, which he was brainwashed by is called cool zone media network. And it's run by Bellingcat gadfly. Who is a, and the self entitled anarchist Robert Evans

alongside Antifa seamsters.

Simone Collins: Well, it just sounds like a fictional like zine from the nineties.

Cool.

Malcolm Collins: And here is a quote from him, a Secret Service member, again, I remind you. Antifa [00:10:00] Wait, what is this first person? Fascists and Nazis, there's a rather sizable contingent of them, who are wrapped in flag, holding a cross, and wearing red hats. If it makes me a jackboot to oppose shitty people, then baby, you got my boot to polish.

So again, he's saying he wants to act as a jackboot. Again What is

Simone Collins: a jackboot?

Malcolm Collins: Jack boot is what you call a fascist. It's another word for fascist. And so in our Antifa episode, what we say is that like the core thing of Antifa, because it's such a decentralized organization, is it's the belief that they should treat anyone who is center right, as this person is, I mean, more than 50 percent of the country voted for Trump, he thinks all of them should be treated the way that you treat somebody who is in the midst of an active genocide, which is just his What is called a psychological license to dehumanize other people and use his position of systematic power and privilege i.

e Working for the secret service to carry that out [00:11:00] And another quote here if you support trump You're either an a*****e because you put the economy first over the rights, by the way the economy first feeding your family over the rights of people and over human dignity, or because you want him to hurt people you don't like, or because you buy into his message completely, which case you're both an a*****e and a Nazi.

He said, and so again, just completely disconnected from reality. Like he doesn't.

Simone Collins: I'm hearing classic Trump derangement and plus identifying with leftist groups.

Malcolm Collins: But the question is, how in the Secret Service was this not detected? How are you not getting it? Don't they

Simone Collins: do these like very detailed background reference checks?

You know, like the interview of your cousins and your neighbors and your former classmates and they look at all your social media. What happened?

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, if you look at the things that he's accused Republicans of potentially carrying out, it's stuff like the banning of interracial marriage, abortion and the deportation of American blacks.

Maybe

Simone Collins: this came up in his background checks, but [00:12:00] everyone's like, well, that sounds evil and he's against evil stuff. So all right, he's fine.

Malcolm Collins: No, 50 percent of Americans are being pro all of this stuff.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah. That, that's the new, and this is the thing

Malcolm Collins: where he falsely accuses your average, the, the, the new right.

That controls this. Trump administration is an incredibly centris party. Yeah. So much so that, you know, you look at him. Yeah. But they we're

Simone Collins: talking about his college self, so who knows, you know?

Malcolm Collins: No, no. This isn't college. This is from last year, sweetheart. Oh, .

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: This is the center. Right. To give you an idea of how centrist the center right is you look at who's leading Trump's organizations.

It's like. Chelsea Gabbard, a former Democrat, right? And RFK, another former Democrat one of the people who is running against Trump. It is Democrats aren't doing this. They're not appointing Republicans to top level positions in these administrations. Now, of course, the Democrats dehumanize these people so much that you have people like Destiny saying that, like, Chelsea Gabbard should be taken off all social media because again, they just, when they had power, they just [00:13:00] wanted to put the boot on everyone's neck and they're showing it again and they're showing how racist they actually are.

You can watch our video. You know, report to the Mar a Lago breeding pens where we go over just how racist the Democrats turned out to be the moment the racial minorities whose identity they had taken and they thought they owned didn't do what they told them to in big enough numbers when the majority of Latino men voted for Trump and they just went for it.

Full on, like, honestly, the stuff that they were saying, mainstream Democrats were saying about Latino men was worse than anything Trump has said about Latino men in his entire life by a degree of like 5X. And I think it's because the truth is that they're racist. They know, everyone knows that they're racist.

And this is the thing where I'm like, Trump's a racist. I'm like, really? You think Trump's a racist? Yeah, he's a racist idiot with poor self control. And I go, there are one of two things that are true. Either Trump is a racist. Or Trump has poor self control because Trump has been in the public limelight his entire effing life.

He has been on shock jock [00:14:00] shows like Howard Stern, where he has said disgusting things where he has said sexually improprietous things that were totally out of the mores of society. I was actually,

Simone Collins: I was listening to clips from the grabber by the pussy interview somehow randomly today. And he, he actually mentioned Like that he was putting tic tacs in his mouth because he was going to like, kiss a woman without her permission.

But I was like, well, I mean, he's trying to make it pleasant. I just, it was not even as bad as I thought it would be, you know, I think most women who are forcibly kissed are not forcibly kissed by someone who's just freshened their breath. So. He's a conscientious grabber by the pussy kind of guy. Which again, our argument for our culture and for the culture that Trump kind of is coming to represent the response to grab her by the pussy is grabbed by the balls or kick him in the balls.

Like this is just the kind of culture, like if you don't like it, hit back. And, and what's being misunderstood, I think is a cultural mismatch of. You know, a bunch of pearl clutchers [00:15:00] who don't have the wherewithal to push back the same way that someone with a more blunt and low culture background is.

You know what I'm saying, right?

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah, I mean, the, the, the point being is that a lot of these, these, it's just like Trump is like, obviously not, like, if you have like a brain, you know, Trump is not racist. Otherwise he would have done racist things back when he didn't know he was running for president.

And back when those things were acceptable, he's been alive for a long time. Biden has said he's been

Simone Collins: alive for a long time and he's been on the media for a long time. This is Biden

Malcolm Collins: has said more explicitly racist stuff in the last 10 years than Trump has said in the last 50

years.

That's wild to me.

I mean, to me, that shows that this is genuinely a man. Where Biden's like, oh, well, you know, we want to help smart, what is it, like rich people and black people. You don't vote for me, you ain't black. Like, those are hugely racist things to say.

And Trump's never had any [00:16:00] sort of a gaffe like that. Which to me says that even accidentally, like even in his heart of hearts, he doesn't have racism. And I think that that's why he's never really gelled with the racists who want to use him as their champion and why they recently all turned against him.

Now here's where you might start feeling for this guy. So his disinterest in actually protecting Trump may have Led to Trump being elected and now he's in this tough position where he's this dyed in the wool Antifa super commie. And he has to serve under a Republican administration, which was something that he never fully considered might happen.

And so he's been reaching out on places like Reddit. It could happen here. That's where this, this Post happened. And so I'll quote for it. So he goes seeking help about getting out Before you guys read this and someone says glowy Glowy means looks like a fed because he does look like a fed basically means that these groups won't really trust him

Oh,

And that's true.

They won't really trust him and that's the problem, right? He can't stay where he is and he can't leave [00:17:00] Yeah And I know how it sounds. I get it if you read this and don't buy that I'm serious. I'm happy to provide Moz with proof that I'm actually in the field. I'm in. I'm genuinely am here and lost. In college, I was about as left as you could get, full red and black, but I fell into the trap of signing up to be law enforcement, both to pay my bills and because I wanted to help people.

My dumb ass thought that there was some hope to work to better the world from inside the system. My first agency didn't do either of those things. So I went was what was a pretty prestigious until recently federal agency. And so basically he went from being a cop, which is what he started as again. I haven't talked about his starting career because I don't want to dox him too much to being in the Secret Service.

Now that a new administration is coming in, I suddenly realize that I've been wrong for almost 10 years. I sold out. I'm disgusted with myself.

There's no way to help from inside the system, not as a law enforcement. For every person I helped, my co workers hurt more. For every person I [00:18:00] got mental health or domestic abuse resources, my co workers undid twice as much. I can't be part of this anymore. How does the logic work there? But if he's not there, then he's not doing that.

So even if his coworkers are doing more bad than he's doing good, presumably he's still doing good. Just

Simone Collins: feeling beat down. Probably.

Malcolm Collins: I don't think he's feeling beat down. Basically what he means is he wants to be lauded by the communities that he looks for for social affirmation. And he's willing to sell out the poor and downtrodden to receive that social affirmation.

I want to help. I want to leave my job, maybe go back to work as an advocate for something like the ACLU or the SPLC or something like that. I even applied to an open spot at the ACLU tonight, but I feel still feel so hopeless. I don't know where to start. I was hoping maybe someone might be able to give me a nudge.

I feel totally lost. I have no idea what to do. Is it even possible to get back on the right side of things anymore?

Simone Collins: Oh, wow.

This reminds me of, you know, [00:19:00] That show that I got so obsessed with called The Good Fight, where the lawyer, the like lead female in the show, this lawyer has serious Trump derangement syndrome and really, really, really like believes in her side and wants to help and wants to make a difference and just keeps kind of losing her mind when she feels like she just can't make a difference and no matter what she does, like she doesn't get her way.

And conservatives still continue to exist somehow, and it drives her completely nuts and insane. And it, this seems like the sky's going through the same thing. And all because they're fighting for

Malcolm Collins: a world that doesn't exist. They're fighting for a world where, and this is the thing, where they're not the fascists, right?

And so they need to delude themselves. They need to delude themselves into believing that Trump's going to deport, like, black Americans. They need to delude themselves into believing, That you know, a national abortion ban is on the way. They need to delude themselves into believing that women aren't going to have any rights anymore.

Like, it's all ridiculous. It's all ridiculous. Yeah. [00:20:00] And it's sad. It's sad. But, and I'd also note here that the organization that he was so happy to apply for a job at, the Southern Poverty Law Center, even under a left leaning administration

members of it were convicted of terrorism. So, of the SPLAC, the SPLC, sorry, it's a Southern Poverty Law Center.

The hope not

Simone Collins: hate of the U. S.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, the hope not hate of the U. S. is one person said. A staff lawyer in two foreign nationals among 23 Antifa charged with domestic terrorism after cop city riot. This has been 2023. According to the Delcub jail booking records, Thomas Webb, sorry, I won't say the name, a staff lawyer for the anti white hate group the Southern Property Law Center was one of the arrested. He was arrested alongside 22 others that have been charged with domestic terrorism by the Juro Bureau of Investigation for their role in pillaging the construction site of an 85 acre training complex of the city's police and fire departments.

Oh goodness. And of the person who radicalized him when he made this really [00:21:00] sad post, the most upvoted comment was, whoever it is, the person radicalized, I credit you and your works for helping me reach this point. And in response to this, he received a mix of comments from the anti fascists, some outright disbelieving him while others staying true to their ACAB values. All cops are b*****d values, just discrediting him, hitting on

Simone Collins: him,

Malcolm Collins: Saying that he could something

Simone Collins: I just hate about.

The way, where the left has gone is that you can't win even giving your life to the cause. Here's this guy who is clearly giving everything he can and who is completely bought in hook, line, and sinker and he's being hated on despite coming to them for help. Despite being disheartened, you would think that they'd give more encouragement than that.

That's sad.

Malcolm Collins: It is sad. It is sad. I, I, I don't know. Like, he just appears brainwashed. He doesn't appear to be like a good or bad person. He's just an ant with cordyceps. Is an ant with cordyceps against the hive? [00:22:00] Not really. It's just a tool of the fungus now. It's just a tool of the self replicating memetic virus.

And the, the person who infected him their reply was the, the top reply. And he had thanked the person for radicalizing him, giving him this virus, erasing his identity and any shred of human dignity he had. Becoming a Nazi himself. He basically appeared to hand wave this guy's involvement with the United States government. And they didn't respond to that. He said, thank you, Robert. I credit you and your works for helping me reach this point. Your words mean so much. Cool zone media is one of the few things that helped me start turning the gears and showing me the inner light again.

That light, as you say, is telling me I can't stay where I am. And I'm willing to accept that I'll be on the outside, that I'll have to prove my intentions, but I just can't stand by. And this is him as a, this to me sounds like somebody who really might try to assassinate the president.

Simone Collins: Or off himself.

I mean, this just seems like a sad person.

Malcolm Collins: I mean, my takeaway from this is that the organizations [00:23:00] aren't screaming against extreme leftism in the way that they should be government organizations.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

They

Malcolm Collins: see extreme leftism as fine.

Simone Collins: Yes. Yeah, that, that seems to be, well, I mean, that's going to change with the Trump administration because on so many fronts. It has flagged leftist extremist views as being not permissible anymore.

Malcolm Collins: So there is going to be a bit of a, we need to just be more aggressive about it.

We need to be using AI as we need to develop a eyes that can scan all everyone who works with the federal government, social media, anything that could be tied to the federal government, social media. And we need, I don't think people should

Simone Collins: be actively disenfranchised for holding ideological views that are different from ours.

I just think that. If someone holds the, they have to

Malcolm Collins: Oh, being a Tifa member is literally equivalent to being a neo nazi in this country. It means you have dehumanized over half of the population of this country.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I mean that, that level of I mean everyone is biased though, I, I do struggle [00:24:00] with this.

No, this

Malcolm Collins: I understand you always want to see the good in people, Simone, and I, I love that about you. But the problem is, is somebody like this, and I've said, I've humanized this individual. I said, I just did. You did, you did, you did, you did, but no, I also think he's an active threat to the president as well.

A person can be a human person who just got brainwashed, who just fell in with the wrong crowd, who has no business being in the federal government,

who has no business, who's supposed to be doing counter sniper stuff for the president when he can just aim his gun at the president.

Yeah, yeah,

we're not. Yeah, he genuinely believes the stuff he's saying, and it seems that he genuinely does. Would he not have a moral mandate to act?

Simone Collins: Well, I don't, I don't know how much has come out from the Butler, Pennsylvania assassination attempt on the president, but do you think in light of the [00:25:00] low level of ideological magic betting that has taken place.

Do you think it's possible that there was intentional looking the other way? Yes, I do

Malcolm Collins: think it's very possible when you consider the fact that the crowd saw the guy, a crowd of

Simone Collins: multiple people were like, Hey guys, there's a guy on the roof with the gun. There's a crowd,

Malcolm Collins: the secret service, I think it was 30 minutes before the secret service did.

Yeah, there, there

Simone Collins: were, there were many, many, many attempts to inform this

Malcolm Collins: guy who had his gun trained on.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: To me, that sounds pretty bad

Simone Collins: when you combine those facts with this fact. I mean, at the same time, though, you know, Trump has had been hadn't had

Malcolm Collins: Biden. Why didn't any of this happen to Obama? Why didn't any of this happen to? None of this happened to any other candidate. It's not like he had one attempt on him.

He had it. Three attempts on him, two came very close with a full gun setup happening. That didn't happen to any other candidate.

Simone Collins: You

Malcolm Collins: can't be like, oh, this [00:26:00] is equivalent, when it's literally not equivalent. It's literally unprecedented.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I just don't know quite what to make of it.

It is, this is pretty sobering

Malcolm Collins: because you're not willing to accept the truth, which is this memetic virus needs to be treated like a dangerous cult. People who are infected with it need to be quarantined and removed from interacting with the federal government,

Simone Collins: like effectively deprogrammed,

Malcolm Collins: not deprogrammed.

They need to be treated the same way. Somebody who went on like a racist rant online would need to be treated like. These people just cannot be trusted with any sort of institutional power.

Speaker 2: You b es are gonna do what I say or I will put my g foot so far up your a You will rue the day you crawled out of your mother's a [00:27:00] Barry!

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: This

Simone Collins: is a systematic problem, not just when it comes to, we'll say, urban monoculture extremism. We have an issue in both Japan and in South Korea with the Moonies getting a little too far into the government, right?

Wasn't the, the Moonies

Malcolm Collins: also were individual. And here's what I want to say. I am not like the lefties against repentance. If somebody is like, I was genuinely wrong, I was genuinely hoodwinked. I was genuinely brainwashed and they're on record with that and they're public about that. I am totally okay with that.

Lefties, of course, don't allow this. You can't be repentant on the left. But on the right, you can be repentant. And, and, and there are people that are like, No, that's not true. Name one person who was a never Trumper and who has ever been forgiven.

Speaker 3: In 2016, he was a staple on TV screens, explaining Trump's appeal with a warning. Referring to Trump as, quote, America's Hitler.

Speaker 4: I'm a never Trump guy. I never liked him.

Malcolm Collins: I don't know, maybe his vice [00:28:00] president? Maybe his literal running mate?

Who said all of these horrible things against Trump and was completely forgiven the left would never Do that again because it's like this totality or they're not gonna be they're not good people But the right we say you say you're wrong Even this guy if he said he's wrong if he went through and he explained to us You know, what's interesting is why it's safe to do this on the right is because no one ever lies about this on the right I've never once seen a lefty, when lefties infiltrate the right, they always pretend to be like different people.

They pretend that they were always racist. And then they're like, like the hope not hate guy talking with us, I was like, Hey, you are uncomfortably racist, buddy, but like, I'm not going to be mean to you just because of your like personal beliefs. I'll like talk to you and humor you. But I'm not gonna like, yeah and I, and I think that that's how they fundamentally misunderstand the right, right?

Like if they assume that all these righties are like racist and they're not, they are the weird, uncomfortable racist in this room. And everyone else is like, [00:29:00] well, he's I don't want to like, shame him, but I will try to guide him away from these beliefs, as we did with the Hope Not Hate guy, and it was actually recorded in the article because the truth is that there isn't this racist base on the right, but there is this racist base on the left, as we saw, When Trump won, them immediately turning against their black population, the Hispanic population.

So this is the way people characterize you versus me. They're like, you're always like, oh, everyone's a good person. No one really did anything wrong. And I'm always like, well, I think it's

Simone Collins: the autist versus the schizoid dynamic that we have, which is that you're like constantly modeling things and Making connections and I am doing the exact opposite of that and assuming that everyone is acting like a rational mechanistic player and that they couldn't possibly have ulterior motives because they haven't told me they have any ulterior motives and therefore they're doing exactly what they tell me that they're doing.

So I think that's what's going on in the end. [00:30:00] This guy

Malcolm Collins: is, by the way, autistic. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years he's

Simone Collins: trans. Well, he's very transparent. I really like that about him. I mean, you know what he stands for and he's made it very clear.

Malcolm Collins: The idiot thing he did and how they found him is he posted lots of pictures on these pseudonymous accounts and they just used AI to find his real accounts using the pictures he was posting on the pseudonymous Reddit accounts.

Simone Collins: Oh, interesting. The more even fighting like

Malcolm Collins: his Spotify account was a an equivalent picture to when he had posted on another thing So like they can confirm with his credit card and everything. It's the same guy So there isn't a lot of doubt that it could be somebody else.

Simone Collins: That makes sense. That makes sense

Malcolm Collins: But what I think one thing i'd like to see was the trump administration is to incorporate the public army that republicans have the the dems Tim's don't have a competent public army, right?

It's all funded by, you know, like, you know, these organizations, like the ones I've been talking about are Hope Not Hate. They're funded by the government. They're funded by [00:31:00] as we did in our Hope Not Hate episode. But the, the spy who has been tracking us where we go into, it's, it probably wasn't, he probably worked for the government directly.

Which is to say that They don't really have a true grassroots. Their, their, their grassroots is like fighting amongst themselves. We have fortune who could unholster their autism for great feats. And not just fortunate, but organizations like this. And I think that we need to develop channels within the Trump administration for individuals like this to deliver messages to the administration, to deliver directions and things that they have found and connections that they've been able to make to the administration so it can be vetted and acted on.

Yeah.

And, and I think if people knew that the administration would. Would act on these potential threats that they'd be much more excited to invest their time in them.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, this is a, it's just, it's sad. I feel bad for him. I'm alarmed. But [00:32:00] at this point, a lot of people recently have been sharing with us various anecdotes similar to this, where I find myself thinking, wow, that's really alarming if it's true, but also I'm not even remotely surprised.

Yeah. I'm

Malcolm Collins: not surprised. Yeah. I'm not surprised. But like, but like, we need to take this as a serious thing, which is to say this, that the secret service is not betting for wanting to kill a Republican president.

Simone Collins: Well, and how do we not get desensitized to this though? Because at this point I'm like, yeah, I mean.

Sure, that probably makes sense, but like, what, like, add it to the pile. Just throw this burning trash pile on top of the other burning trash mountain. Like, I don't know what to do. You know

Malcolm Collins: what Constantine did that we need to do is get rid of the Victorian Guard. I think the Secret Service should be abolished.

It's a wasteful agency. Get rid of it.

Simone Collins: Doesn't it do something with fraud? Oh, wait, it's not doing anything with fraud anymore. So, yeah, screw them. Okay. Yeah, just go back to zero based budgeting with the entire government and [00:33:00] abolish,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, abolish the education. I think a lot of these departments just need to be abolished.

Any iteration of them is to be recreated. It is to be recreated from scratch. None of the bureaucratic bloat, none of the insiders, none of the D. C. decline.

Simone Collins: You don't, yeah, you don't need a Department of Education on the federal level. Arguably, you don't even need state level huge education apparatuses.

When on the local level, people are paying in many cases so much in, like, funding through property taxes. Like, I think we paid 8, 000 dollars this year and mostly school taxes. Like, that's. Shouldn't that be enough? For our system, you know, and yeah, we have kids who are eligible for the public school system.

But this is also a tax that is being paid by childless people by dinks by retired people per year per household. [00:34:00] So. Yeah, there's just too much bureaucracy that that's unnecessary. I mean, I think I was just I think Vsauce released a short recently that I saw where he pointed out that the number of federal holidays at this point.

Is growing at such a high rate that if it continues growing at the same rate soon, federal employees will work zero days a year and you can just take over the government because no one will work anymore. How

Malcolm Collins: long till it works here? It is a year.

Simone Collins: Oh, it's, it's going to take quite a few years, like 300 years or something.

It's, it's too long, but like, I think it's just the number of federal holidays today. Versus what it was in the seventies and then in the thirties is, is really insane. Like they just keep adding more days to take off. In addition, of course, to adding, are we going to get federal? Are we going to get wicked?

What do you mean? Off? No, no, listen. Doge made it very clear that they want 80 hours a week plus from their team. If we were lucky enough to serve there, there would be no sleep. There would be. No, nothing, but [00:35:00] doge, which is worth it. I mean, to serve in that opportunity, it would

Malcolm Collins: be like serving the military, like it would be a service to the country.

Simone Collins: Yeah, 100%. I, I hope that they actually review the CVs of people who submitted their CVs, including us.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, our contact there. Yeah,

Simone Collins: but life is good. Good things are gonna happen and who cares because the Christmas is coming, future days coming. Life is nice at this time of year. It's cold. It's dark. Oh, divine, but I'm just going to enjoy.

Well, I'm excited about the meal

Malcolm Collins: that you're making tonight.

Simone Collins: Poor man's steak and well, the slow cooker. Sweet potato casserole is going to take a while. That'll

Malcolm Collins: be easy for tomorrow, but it's going to be so good.

Simone Collins: We'll see. We'll see.

Malcolm Collins: Simone, I know you don't understand. Why would somebody want mashed sweet potato?

No, that's true. Never mind. [00:36:00] Do you want me to puree it after? No, I want to, like, be able to cut into it and have some semblance that it's its original form. Like, the form

Simone Collins: of it. Okay, so I should try to keep the layers intact when I slide it into the slow cooker.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: okay. We don't have to have to

Malcolm Collins: just

Simone Collins: kind of it's, it's chilled.

So challenge accepted. I'm ready to take this on. I, I appreciate The, the Shokugeki you have presented, competing against myself and your standards. Best anime

Malcolm Collins: ever made. I still think it's my top anime position, um, Star Wars has

Simone Collins: made both of us consistently cry, not from sadness, but from joy. More than any other show that we've god, do you

Malcolm Collins: remind me of the girl in it who's so sweet?

Simone Collins: The girl who's so insecure and comes from a small town. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, she's such a great character. Come on. She is great.

Simone Collins: I just, I love the busty American whose name is some kind of play [00:37:00] on the Japanese word for meat. Is it? Do you know that? I'm sorry. I forget how much Japanese,

Malcolm Collins: you know? Yeah.

Simone Collins: Her, her name is something like Niku something, but yeah, like, yeah.

So I think it's some kind of pun they were going for. It's like, you know, meet Talia. I don't know. You know what I mean? It's a great show. Yeah, I think, I think she's my favorite. No, I don't know. Just anyone whose clothes are being burst off at the, like, most recent moment. Jordan, you don't like the sweet girl?

The, the, no, because I'm never the flutter shy girl. I hate flutter shy, you know, like that, that trope is not my trope. So true.

Malcolm Collins: You know, you, you definitely are not you. Yeah, well I, one girl is definitely my brother's wife.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: No, she's. Yeah. Yeah. She is exactly the personality of my brother's wife.

Simone Collins: The competence and the talent.

100%. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: No, you're probably closer. If you're close [00:38:00] to any character and personality, it's the science cooking girl. Oh, I love her. Autistic and detached and think she's

Simone Collins: better than everyone. I don't, but I don't think I'm better than everyone. So I'm like, I'm her combined with your favorite and that I'm, I'm, I'm deeply self hating and self critical, but I'm also very autistic and uncaring and separated from people.

I love you. Yeah, anyway. We're ending

Malcolm Collins: this with an anime discussion! Although after this we'll have a discussion. What's the thing that we talked about at the beginning? I remember it was interesting. Anyway, you guys are in for another interesting discussion. And I love you, Simone. You are the best. And people say, keep these inbits.

And I don't mind. Because, you know, if you don't like it, then just stop watching now, right?

Simone Collins: Doesn't that increase the drop off rates or something?

Malcolm Collins: Oh, no, no, no, no. I, I structured the episode. So the parts that people may not like watching, they can just end watching without being burdened by. So I try to do all of the most important information at the very

Simone Collins: beginning.

No, no, no. But I mean, like. [00:39:00] YouTube completion rates matter in terms of our stats, right? No, they don't watch

Malcolm Collins: time. That matters. That completion. So

Simone Collins: I,

Malcolm Collins: I tried to segment the dirty

Simone Collins: secrets about you. Can I share Oh, I'll have to think of something. You don't have dirty secrets. You share everything. I love you.

Malcolm Collins: Have a good day. And we'll go get the kids at the turn of the hour. Okay.

Simone Collins: Thank you. Oh gosh. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: No,

Simone Collins: I appreciate it. This gives me time to actually prep the burgers and everything. Cause it's going to take a little, it's going to take a moment. What have you done?

And then we're using Alfredo. That's right. Alfredo. Right. You want to actually do the, do the sauce, right?

Malcolm Collins: You know, I wonder

Simone Collins: Because we could just do cheddar, if you'd rather just do cheddar.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, what were you thinking of doing in terms of an Asian sauce?

Simone Collins: Maybe like just something simple, [00:40:00] like sriracha mayo.

For you.

Malcolm Collins: Sriracha mayo would be perfect to do that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Okay. So you actually are kind of on board with me, maybe I can try a different sauce on each one. Sriracha

Malcolm Collins: mayo has the creaminess. That's what you're looking for.

Simone Collins: But then you want that, that like Malcolm twist, cause if it's not fusion, you don't like it.

So I'm trying to model you and your desires.

Malcolm Collins: You do a very good job of that. Simone.

Simone Collins: I love you, Malcolm. God, that smile gets me every time. Okay. I'm going to start dinner. You nerd. Other girls have

Malcolm Collins: said that too. I wonder what it is about a smile that gets women.

Simone Collins: It's like, well, you, you have a beautiful face and a great smile and your smile is genuine.

You smize as your mother says you smize that, that sparkle in your eye that I love that goes away when you're not, when you're too exhausted. Anyway. Bye. Have a good day, you guys. Okay. I love you. Bye. From the Christmas story, when they get their they [00:41:00] burn their dinner and they have to go to the Chinese restaurant.

Malcolm Collins: I would always rather have Chinese food than Christmas. I know

Simone Collins: you would. I know you would.

Malcolm Collins: I am so much more a fan of Chinese food than And Christmas and Thanksgiving dinner are just such garbage dinners.

Like who likes turkey? You know how I know we need to have a few conversations here. You know how I know, you know, one likes turkey because we don't eat it any other time of the year. If people like Turkey, Turkey would be a regular thing that people ate. Stuffing would be a regular thing that people ate, but we don't because it tastes.

Like, like a sad chicken. It's the total's meat. It

Simone Collins: tastes like the sauce you give to it and you being a sauce is, man, I am, I'm embarrassed For your lack of creativity, do better. Turkey tastes like sad chicken.

Malcolm Collins: It is,

Simone Collins: it is not a good, no, doesn't, it's not a good Turkey is chicken with terroir. Okay. It is. It's got an earthiness to it.

The tryptophan, you know, it's, it's like, it's the, it's the [00:42:00] absence of, of chicken. Gimme 5%

Malcolm Collins: chicken. 25% dirt. Yes. That's what it tastes like. It takes you just

Simone Collins: no. Oh, great. Now it's frozen on my just up with my camera.

I

Malcolm Collins: hope so. There's buses out there.

Simone Collins: I know.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Octavian's getting out. So she must be. That's good.

Simone Collins: I wish they would just let them out. You know what I mean? Like just, oh, the children will die. Yeah. It's, it's our house. He has, he knows the, he knows the code to get in the house. Like it's not rocket science.

Malcolm Collins: People are such hippies. All right. So I'll get started.

Speaker 9: Oh my gosh, you guys, how excited are you? You've got a crazy giant bouncy house.

Speaker 11: Oh, wow.

https://discord.com/invite/EGFRjwwS92

In this episode, Malcolm and Simone delve into a provocative discussion about how certain portions of the left appear to be indulging in Handmaid's Tale scenarios for sexual excitement. The conversation also covers statistical data from Ayla on female and male fetishes, revealing surprising insights into what really turns women on. They discuss the prevalence of violent erotica among women, the implications of women's arousal patterns on society, and how these fantasies manifest in public discourse and media. Explore the complexities of sexual fantasies and societal taboos in this eye-opening conversation.

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Simone. I'm excited to be talking to you today. Today we are going to be talking about a handmaid's tale. There have been some jokes on the right that we have participated in that it appears that a portion of the left Is genuinely aroused by Handmaid's Tale scenarios and is attempting to LARP a fantasy in which they are living these scenarios for predominantly sexualized reason.

And I think that. When we've said this and other people have said this I've laughed I've been like, oh, that's so silly And then like this voice started to creep into my mind malcolm You should probably look into whether or not this is the case.

Simone Collins: I was never joking I think it's legit and I think we've received

Malcolm Collins: So we are going to, yes, look for receipts.

This is actually something that's happening on the left. Then we are going to [00:01:00] go over a slide deck that Ayla created for Hereticon that goes over some of what women are into. And I think that this, and it's just so important for us to constantly be emphasizing this. Women consume the majority of violent pornography.

Yeah, this is not a, this is not a dude thing. This is not a dude thing. And you'll get people like you know, Louise Perry and she goes, Oh, well. Yeah. Okay. Maybe your girlfriend asked you to choke her, but she was only doing that because other guys had choked her before. And I was like, b***h, women didn't turn Fifty Shades of Grey into a bestselling book to impress guys.

Yeah. Okay. Women were like conspicuously reading Fifty Shades of Grey on a bus so a guy could see it and be like, Hmm. Yeah. I bet she's into some kinky stuff. It shows a complete disconnect from reality among a certain class of people. That's just like, well,

Simone Collins: I think part of it is that [00:02:00] there is a, a non trivial subset of, of women and, and people in general who are really turned off by this.

Like it's not their fetish and they can't imagine as

Malcolm Collins: well. There is an extreme category and extreme. Scream turned on category, but then not turned on category is a smaller category.

Simone Collins: But this is an issue pervasive in sexuality, where like, this subset of people who are extremely turned off by the thing are also very disgusted by it, which is something you discuss a lot in the Tragedy of Sexuality, and when you equate it's very easy to equate disgust with this must be morally bad.

And so they're like, well, I have this

Malcolm Collins: disgusting thing. Sorry, you mixed up your words a bit there. Whenever an audience is extremely aroused by something, another audience will be extremely disgusted by the same thing. Whenever one audience is disgusted by something, another audience will be extremely aroused by it.

But some individuals just struggle with comprehending that their own arousal patterns may not be the dominant arousal patterns within their gender. These people remind me of [00:03:00] those, I don't know if you've ever known one of those predatory bi guys who's like, come on, man, or gay guys. They're like, everybody's actually secretly gay.

And I'm like, no, I'm definitely not secretly gay. But they just, they don't believe it. There's part of their brain that's like, this is what turns me

Simone Collins: on.

Malcolm Collins: And this is

Simone Collins: the thing that, so it's a very common, like, logical mistake that people make where if you broadly like someone and respect them and think they're a nice person, person, then you're going to assume that they are disgusted by the things, same things that you're disgusted by, that they, they believe the same things you do.

And so I think it's really easy for people who are really turned off by this stuff to be like, well, no one could be turned on by this and everyone must be turned on by the things I'm turned on by. And that's just how it is. And then this causes a lot of this misunderstanding and conflict.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So here's the post on Reddit this is a, by a left wing person.

The women perpetuating the delusional idea that they will be forcibly impregnated by the most powerful men in society are taking part in a fantasy. Even being pro choice, I'm embarrassed by the amount of [00:04:00] women who genuinely fantasize they'll be breeding stock for the elites

first to give birth rather than be cast aside as housemaids due to age, obesity, or generally unattractive qualities, or illness. In this fantasy, they're all highly coveted by men. Powerful men. They're even more valuable than the men's wives. Of course, this isn't happening, however. It's not PC to disturb these fantasies of being ultimately irresistible, that society changes completely, because everyone else, Is suddenly less valuable than you it reeks of ego masturbation and breeding kink Just like the wildly popular 50 shades, which is written at a literal fourth grade reading level It's always a rich and powerful man

who is powerless against their attraction to you. And it made it to the bestseller list because women couldn't get enough of it. There are three movies now, despite the story mentioning her being fed alcohol and engaging in activities she didn't consent to and was not warned would take place.

This is a LARP [00:05:00] and it's embarrassing and it's completely divorced from reality. And it's so obvious to many of us that it keeps us. From taking you seriously and I think that

Simone Collins: that's, that's really sex negative and shaming. Like, oh gosh, so it's so unreasonable to wish that you were desired. It's so unreasonable to wish that you were valued by society.

Like, I mean, we can make fun of this, like, fetish, but

Malcolm Collins: like, it's a, it's a real thing. But I think that, that whenever you have a narrative, and I would note that I actually don't think the book, and I think that this is why the book wasn't as popular at this recent revival in a TV series and LARP it didn't sexualize the sex scenes that much, whereas the TV series did, sexualize the men in the show. Like the colonel, there's a lot of women talking about how hot they found these guys and we can go over those posts, but Oh my God, really? Oh no. Oh no. Yeah I, and I, and I know that Rubiard was the one who turned me on to this because he was pointing out, look, whenever you see something that is predominantly female, [00:06:00] the fandom, it involves women being disempowered, but obsessed over by, you know, powerful men especially if they are forced to be pleasured by that man in front of other high valued women who have to look on with jealousy.

While this may not be your fantasy, Simone, it is the, one of the dominant female fantasies.

Simone Collins: Well, that's what I'm saying. That's why I don't think it definitely is not my thing. So it's. It's hard for me to understand, but I don't, I see the logic behind it. I see why, evolutionarily speaking, this would likely be a turn on for many women.

And I don't think it should be shamed. But I also think that people who are, I think the problem is that a lot of people who actually hold this fetish, and are like, Cosplaying in Handmaid's Tale stuff and like trying to argue that they're obsessed with Gilead because it's a cautionary tale and they're protesting around it because they want to warn people and they don't want it, like, they don't want it to happen, but like they're [00:07:00] really leaning into it because there's this very subconscious fetish, but

Malcolm Collins: very strong.

Hold on, I love this one. So, LOL Atwood's movie, and this is in our politics, basically summed up as, quote, Oh my god, the patriarchy is so bad, I'm gonna escape and get revenge. Oh my god, I sure hope a powerful rich man doesn't catch me in making their breeding slave. Pant, pant. Okay, so I'll just go over a few like memes before we get to the actual statistics on this. Here is a picture of, this is posted regularly in one of the subreddits. No spoiler, the Handmaid's Tale role play on Discord. Be a wife, a handmaid, a Martha, et cetera, et cetera.

So this is for women who like to role play as handmaids on Discord. And then here it's, oh. My God, I saw a fanfic where June becomes Nick's handmaid, and it was played out like some kind of romantic and kinky thing. And I was all like, oh my God, what are you doing? Or here, somebody's saying, Nick, does anyone else find [00:08:00] Nick insanely hot? Like, everything about him, Nick can get it.

And then here's one, is anybody else oddly and overwhelmingly attracted to Commander Lawrence? And then, Here is the responses in that that are getting lots of upvotes, like 157 upvotes, way more than I should. And then another person says, I'm a sip for him and I hate myself for it. And then here's one this is the, the quote unquote bad guy commander Downvote this like crazy, but Fred is sexy.

Before you downvote and by the way, this person got a lot of upvotes. Before you downvote me, I almost feel after watching half of season one so far, I'm simultaneously attracted to and repulsed by Fred. I'm trying to analyze why I feel this way, and I wonder if it's because they made his character younger and semi attractive.

Anyone else have these thoughts, even in fleeting, is it because I'm Stockholm, getting so deeply connected to this story and wanting to think about what my own coping mechanism would be when I'm in this situation. So she's imagining herself in this [00:09:00] situation and getting connected. Or here's one. I hate Fred, but he was so f*****g hot in this episode, especially after Luke punched him.

Josephine can't hide his attractiveness. I'm in the comments. He's hot AF and people wonder why Serena would bang him last night at the farmhouse. And I want to go over the data because I think that the data will really surprise people. Like if you're into sexuality stuff, you know this data, right? If you are not into sexuality stuff, you are going to be shocked by this data.

So this is a chart that Ayla made. About fetishes and the fetishes that are disproportionately female in nature versus disproportionately male in nature Okay, so let's do the top five male fetishes first. All right clothing role slash role play Other slash exhibitionism, gender play, and incest. [00:10:00] Oh no, I'm just In sales, by the way.

Simone Collins: Oh my gosh. So like, actually, what's really funny is that I've watched a lot of, I've watched a lot of YouTube videos sort of doing a breakdown of like, this is how Margaret Atwood did like the best hits of fascism. Like, she used this, and from this country. But like, she's also kind of doing the top hits of female fetishes.

Yes. But yeah, we're gonna do the female,

Malcolm Collins: hold on, hold on, we're gonna do female fetishes as I just said, but the point I'm making is not one of the top male fetishes. demeans women, hurts women, anything like that. That is not what men are into. Okay. At least disproportionately when compared with females.

Now let's see the fetishes that are overrepresented in females. The top female fetishes. Number one, the top disproportionate female fetish for CIS females receiving pain. Number two, light bondage. Number three, power dynamics. Number four, medium bondage, number five, sex toys, [00:11:00] number six, sadomasochism. You want to get to the first pleasant one?

Number seven, gentleness. But then number eight is non consent.

Okay,

Simone Collins: not a good one. That

Malcolm Collins: is what women are into. Yeah. Okay, I'm not saying jump this on women. We're going to get to why you don't want to jump this on women in a second. No,

Simone Collins: no, no, no. And again, this comes back to the beginning of it where for everything that's turned on for some people, it's a huge turn off to other people.

Well, and there's

Malcolm Collins: also a huge funny thing, which is the types of stuff like roleplay that's banned in like AIs and the types of images and porn that is banned, like in the UK, you can't have porn where it looks like anyone is being injured in any way, even if it's consensual even if it's a cartoon. This is a porn disproportionately consumed by women and I should note here when I say porn disproportionately consumed by women, we're going to get to something.

If people be like, oh, [00:12:00] well, very few women consume porn. So, you know, it's only the kinky women. And then it's like, oh, it appears you also don't know the statistic. You see, it turns out that while 93 percent of men consume pornography, if you include erotic written material, 80 percent of women consume it once a month.

So it's not that the vast minority of women consume erotic material. It's that you don't know that the vast majority of women consume erotic material because you are looking at studies from the 80s that did include romance novels and erotic fan fiction in the types of things that women use to get themselves off.

But actually, the vast majority of women, and not that big of a difference in men, consume some form of erotic material monthly. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. Yep. So, we're gonna go to the next list, okay? Okay. So this list is what percent of the porn erotica you consume violent, okay?

Simone Collins: No. And this is asking women and [00:13:00] men, or just women?

Malcolm Collins: Women and men. Cis men, cis women. It is overwhelmingly a female thing. If you go to all of it almost no men that falls into their categories. If you go to most of it over 10 percent of women under 5 percent of men, if you go to a moderate amount, way more women than men. If you go to a little bit, way more men than women.

And if you go to none of it, way more men than women.

Speaker 3: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: In fact, you might be surprised at this in terms of the erotica you consume, none of it being violent only around like 26% of women consume no violent erotica.

Simone Collins: Wow. Yeah. So yeah, and I think it, it pushes a lot of different buttons. So even if the, like let's say your average female isn't into herself being hurt, violence is still kind of a sign of male physical fitness and prowess.

You know, like it takes a lot.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but that's not what they're consuming. It's not men fighting each other that they're consuming. [00:14:00]

Simone Collins: Yeah. Just being violent against women.

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

Simone Collins: Oh boy. Okay. I'm, I'm really trying to look. You are trying. I know you're trying

Malcolm Collins: to look, I'm going to put it this way. Louise Perry's particular sexual interests for complete.

non, like this none of it category, it is so rare that it is as rare as some fairly mainstream fetishes like foot fetishes and something like that.

So only around 27% of women consume no violent pornography at all.

In terms of people who have a fetish for a specific body part. Around 33% of males and 30% of females have one of these fetishes and of those 47%. Have a preference for feet, which what made it the most common of the specific body part fetishes. , so her unique predilection while more common in the general population than foot fetishes. It's actually less common in the general population than a generic body part fetish. At. Even within females at 30% [00:15:00] for body part fetish and 27% for no violent

as a woman who says no violence against women in any of the erotic material I consume, it's basically outing herself as a female equivalent of a foot fetishist.

She just doesn't realize it.

And again, we actually love Lewis Perry. I love her work. I think she's a great person. I like talking to her. She's fantastic. , All of that said, this is a point that she makes pretty frequently. And so it's one that I need to counter here , which is no eats. You're actually weird if you're a woman and not turned on by violence, that is not usual.

That falls in the category of fetish, not of normal female sexuality within our society today.

Now, I'm not saying that that's a good thing. I'm not thinking that this is the way humans should be programmed. I'm not saying that, for example, do I get aroused when I see a attractive people who aren't my wife sometimes yes I do. That is bad. It is bad that my body works that way, [00:16:00] but it happens. All right. and I think that if we pretend like parts of our arousal patterns don't exist, just because it is inconvenient that they exist, you could end up a really messing up kids with that, because then they assume that something that is actually quite normal about them is weird or deviant.

And those things can be used by other communities. To manipulate them. Oh, a great example of this. When I was younger. , one of the core ways I would get girls to sleep with me. Because I'd be like, oh, you know, I have this. This horrible. Deviant fetish, , around, , vampires. If I seen them carrying around like a vampire book, like a Twilight book or something.

Well in my generation with the Twilight, it was an rice stuff. But anyway, the point being is that, These girls would be like, oh, you're into the thing that I was ashamed for being into. And I assumed that this was some incredibly rare. , like fetish or something like that when it was not, it was like the mainstream thing that girls were into, but they hadn't been [00:17:00] convinced by mainstream society that it was deviant. Which gave me an opportunity to open up conversations about sex with them in a way that didn't seem like I was talking to them about me having sex with them.

I was talking to them about, , their sexuality and my own sexuality more broadly. , but in a way that was very predictable for me because I knew the statistics around female sexuality. , back then, I don't even think that these parts of the statistics were publicly known. It was more just that I had done enough polling on online environments that I had intuited that this was the case. And so people can use that.

Like if I send my daughter out there thinking, oh, if I have these types of arousal patterns, I am a deviant then. People can utilize that to say, Hey, you you're a sexual deviant. Like I'm a sexual deviant. Why didn't you come to our sexual deviant club? , where we do sexual deviant stuff. , instead of, oh no, I'm aware that this is a normal arousal pattern and one that I would prefer not to indulgent in the same way that like I'm aware that women, other than my [00:18:00] wife may turn me on and I'm not going to aggressively indulge in that.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it is this very, very strong minority of women and men that speak up against extremely pervasive turn ons for people that kind of ruins the discourse and causes so much trouble. So much trouble. Like, what do you mean by that? I mean that again, we're looking at all these people, and I watch them, like the YouTubers, the protesters, who are using Gilead and Handmaid's Tale, like, they're discussing it a ton, and it just, it's so clear that they're into it for reasons they're not willing to admit to themselves.

Yeah, and I just, I wish, like, it makes me sad because these are people who are probably pretty sexually unrealized, you know, like, they're just not willing to like, be open to what actually turns them on. And so the closest they can get to sexual gratification is like, moralizing on YouTube about how close we are [00:19:00] to like, having Gilead as being our reality.

Meanwhile, they're like, they're leaning into this concept and this dumerism because they're secretly like realizing that it feels good. It's kind of like people, like young kids, like girls who like ride a certain type of bicycle seat and you're like, Oh wow, like this feels really good. And then they're like, is that what we're talking about?

Yeah. I mean, like, you know, like they don't realize that they're masturbating, but they're masturbating. And that the problem though, is that they're leaning in. To a very dumerous and like unhappy culture of like, in order to sexually gratify themselves, they have to also believe the world is ending and it's making them depressed and it's making them not optimistic about the future, like it's preventing them from feeling like they are safe in their society.

And so that that's bad. Like if they could just admit that like these weird things turn me on them, they could like, they could, they could find a way to exercise that in their sex lives or with the the romance novels that they read and instead engage in a [00:20:00] reality that is closer to reality and that is a lot more optimistic.

Does that make sense?

Malcolm Collins: I want to hear talk about the, just the Gilead scene, because I want to go over this and we'll play a little checklist game. Okay, Simone we're going to go over the, the classic Gilead scene for people who don't know it is the guy's wife is like under her or something or on top of her and then he's having I

Simone Collins: think it's supposed to be, so this is like a, a mating ritual in families that have a handmaid in them.

Where you have an infertile wife, who's of higher status, who's Technically married to the husband, and then you have the handmaid who is actually being sort of the surrogate mother in this case, a fertile woman who is essentially a slave in Gilead society who is actually the one engaged in reproductive sex.

So what happens is the handmaid lays her head in the lap of the wife who's sitting on the bed. The husband has sex with a handmaid. I think while making eye contact with the wife or something and the handmaid's just kind of staring off into the distance. It's based on like a biblical story, like this whole, like Gilead's supposed to be based on some [00:21:00] weird interpretation of the Bible that they never talk about Jesus.

And so that's what it's supposed to be. It's just like this, this perversion of a biblical story of surrogacy, essentially. And that's what. Hold on.

Malcolm Collins: I want you to keep this scene in mind. We are going to go over the top eight female fetishes. Disproportionately female fetishes. And then the top eight disproportionately male fetishes.

Speaker 3: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So first we'll do the male fetishes. And we're going to ask which of those this scene satisfies.

Simone Collins: Oh, and like none because like male sexual, like the number one. And I think this is important because you can't just like rank them and be like, Oh, these are kind of equal. But in like step down proportion, the top, top thing that seems to turn men on, and this is pervasive throughout most porn is very, very enthusiastic female partners or male partners, but like very enthusiastic partners

Malcolm Collins: So the top ones are closing. No, not their roles. Role play. Not really. Not in a traditional context. Others being exhibitionists. Yes, it gets one there. Exhibitionism. Gender play. [00:22:00] No incest. No mental alteration. No. bodily secretions. No.

Being a voyeur. Yes. So two in male. And they're both related to like voyeur exhibitionism stuff. Okay. Okay. Now for disproportionately female fetishes, let's go over the top eight

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Receiving pain, kind of. Yeah. No, for both women, this is not a pleasant procedure. Light bondage. Power dynamics. Medium bondage.

Sex toys, no. Sadomasochism, yes. Well, yeah, and so,

Simone Collins: yeah, power dynamics, check. Light bondage, kind of. Well, I mean, yeah, because, like, technically, they're slaves, and I think the wife is holding the arms of the

Not, not great. Yeah. I mean, clearly this is a, this is a woman friendly

Speaker 5: The whole set

Malcolm Collins: Um Well,

Simone Collins: but I guess we also have to caveat caveat that which turns you on is not that which you morally condone. So just because this is like a top hits of women, female turn ons, does not mean that [00:23:00] women want this to happen.

Or would morally support such such actions, which again, that's the important thing is just because you want to happen

Malcolm Collins: in a second. But I also want to get to an interesting thing here, which is age of onset. So, which fetishes appear in males early on in which fetishes appear disproportionately in females early on.

Okay. Okay. This I find really interesting. So the top ones in males are multiparty. Clothing, vor, voyeur exhibitionism, roles and that's the top five for me. So

Simone Collins: clothing, what, what is clothing? I'm not familiar with clothing as a Clothing

Malcolm Collins: means cross dressing.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Speaker 4: okay.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Next. Sorry. It bothers me that people don't realize how much of a cis man fetish that is.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: The vast majority of They used to.

Simone Collins: Like, I think, like, up until 1995, that was like the pervasive understanding.

Malcolm Collins: All right. So for women it goes brutality, non [00:24:00] consent, objects, humiliation, bondage, power dynamics.

Simone Collins: Again.

Malcolm Collins: Again.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Sorry. Okay. Non consent interest scores. This is really interesting.

Men versus women. I'll just put this on age and you can take what you want from this. No, this is actually really interesting prevalence of men into dominance versus women into submission. All right.

Speaker 3: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So you see since men Dom, since women's submission, you actually see a pretty good match between these two groups from very into moderately into slightly into neutral, slightly into moderately into, but where it diverges really heavily is very into this.

Simone Collins: Yes, yes, I remember this graph from retic on where it's like, women are like, yes, and men are like, yeah, over

Malcolm Collins: 30 percent of women are very into dominance and submission.

Simone Collins: Yes, and

Malcolm Collins: as we argue in the pragmatist guide to sexuality, if sexuality meters were developed by women instead [00:25:00] of. As males do it's viewed as predominantly an attraction to males or females The question would be are you predominantly attracted to submission or dominance?

Because women are more aroused along that line and that spectrum than they are by the gender spectrum which I think surprises a lot of people but it makes sense if you've slept around a lot like as a guy who slept around a lot like this is just like Very this checks out and is one reason why it was so easy to sleep around a lot as a male dog You because there's just not enough of them, especially willing to act that way in any with any sort of like, public confidence.

And here, I would note if you're looking at this graph, this is a perfect example of an arbitrage opportunity, where there is not enough supply for the demand on the market. There is not enough supply of males who are into dominant play as there is a demand for males that are into dominant play. And so if you can provide that well and signal that, that's what you provide.

Well, [00:26:00] you are going to get within sexual marketplaces. A huge payoff.

One of the big problems here is that men don't understand what women want when they want dominant males. They think that they are going to learn this from somebody like Andrew Tate,

Instead of from experimentation. And reading the type of content that women read to get off. , if there's a popular book, like a 50 shades of gray or a.

Twilight. You can look at those books, look at the fanfictions. I'd actually say that fanfiction they're even more useful than the books themselves. And look at the discourse around what makes one fan fiction. Good versus another fan fiction. And through that, you can see the way women actually relate to arousal around this stuff and capitalize off of that.

, these charts look at the average preference versus non preference. So you can see when something is like. [00:27:00] Disproportionately like really fun for some people or or like middling. Like most people have about the same opinion of this, right? A guy is aware and calculating during sex.

Women have a slight preference for this, but like the amount of women who don't like this by negative one is just a little less than the amount of women who do like this by positive one. Okay, and the amount of people who like it negative three and positive three. Not that different. Both pretty low. Guy ejaculates after 20 to 30 minutes of penetration, leaning towards preference.

Guy asks for feedback after sex. Basically, as a guy, you never have to worry about doing this. Only a very small percent of women are negative or against this, and you can see this on the screen. Guy tries to insert his penis despite being soft. Almost no woman is going to like this. Do not be interested.

Do not attempt to do this as a guy, okay? But now we're going to look at the things that have extremes on both sides. Very few people are [00:28:00] medium in this, or very few women are medium on this, okay? So, degradation, alright? Yes, if you are a woman, you are more likely than not to like degradation. But if you don't like degradation, you are going to hate it!

Okay, choking. Yes, the vast majority of women really like choking. You can see this in the script. The vast majority of women really like choking. But of the women who don't like it, they hate it. Good girl being called a good girl. Vast majority of women love this. The minority hate it. There's not like a middling perspective on this.

Sadism or being the subject of sadism. Yes. Most women like this, the people who don't hate it. And I think that that's like, no, like I'm like, yeah, that checks out was my experience to make sure, you know, if they are actually into this stuff or not,[00:29:00]

what are your thoughts?

Simone Collins: I will also emphasize that this really makes it clear why some people are so vehemently like, Everyone hates this!

This is terrible! Women are being coerced into this! Because it's very hard for the average person to model someone else. Especially when they themselves feel so strongly in this experience. So I also think that it's something that like women, especially if they've had multiple partners and their male partners have had experience with other women and are trying to please them.

Like on average, those male partners are going to be like, well, she's probably like more likely than not. She's going to be into choking, chokes and like the girl's like, Oh my God, dramatic experience. And suddenly then they have to like, you know, shout. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: As somebody who slept with a lot of women, the vast majority of women are into chokes.

Yes, there are some who are really against it and it's important to check that. But the vast majority of women are into this. And it is women requesting it, not men wanting to do it as you can see [00:30:00] from the charts. As you can see from the literature, as you can see from the porn. Let me put it this way.

I, you know, in writing the sexuality book, read a lot of fan fictions, read a lot of romance novels, stuff targeted at women. Male like porn, if you look at like hentai or something like that. Choking is just not common at all. It's an incredibly rare fetish in the types of porn. The

Simone Collins: vast majority of male targeted porn.

I see is women being like ecstatically pleased. They're very happy. They're so happy. And then like the female point that I

Malcolm Collins: see in like a brainwashed way or eager, but eager. Nonetheless, they're

Simone Collins: enjoying it. That's, that's what I see. And then like a female it's, it's either like all about being physically pleasured.

Or it's about, like, a more coercive power distance kind of scenario.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah and I think that there is a, and I think that people who feel this really strongly don't know how foolish they look. [00:31:00] When they go out and say that, like, this is what women want, like, when a woman goes up and is like, well, women don't want this.

They're only doing it to prove men, impress men, like 80 percent of the female audience

Simone Collins: is like,

Malcolm Collins: like, they know they need to stay quiet about it, but like the level to which we're rolling our eyes and being like, you are just very sexually inexperienced. And don't know what you're talking about. And apparently haven't had an honest conversation about sexuality with your friends in the last 50 years.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: It's not a good look, but, but it's hard to know that because we aren't having this conversation. We just Well, yeah. They

Malcolm Collins: don't ask their friends. They don't ask their friends, Hey, do you actually like choking? Because their friends know from the s**t they're saying in public that they're gonna get shamed for saying that.

But I think it's interesting that this sexual fantasy that seems to dominate within progressive female circles has become so dominant within the way that they're like acting out that they're basically doing these like LARP sex parties where they all dress up like Gilead women. And they're going home and rubbing one out to this.

And they think that [00:32:00] no one else at the party is doing that.

Simone Collins: Well, I, just to be clear, like, I don't, I think that the, the vast majority of the female sexual experience does not actually involve masturbation. It involves a scenario, fantasies, imagination. And that is why this, this, this well, project 2025, they're gonna turn the world into Gilead is like, that is.

That is, that is the active of masturbation. It is not actually like necessarily this thing where they go and like jack off to it, but they, they're just, they're literally doing it while they're talking to you about it. And that's what's so gross about it. It's like when your progressive friend is like, Oh, I need to get a, you know, hysterectomy because they're like literally masturbating.

If they're literally getting

Malcolm Collins: turned on,

Simone Collins: they're using this conversation to get off. But the sad thing, what makes it even worse, is they don't even realize it, and that's what makes it so embarrassing. No, it's like a horse

Malcolm Collins: girl who doesn't realize why she's doing this. She's like, and [00:33:00] that's the thing that I think we should be calling them out on more frequently, is like, stop masturbating in public.

Just when they're saying things like this, like, please stop masturbating. Please do this that you can get a room, get a room. We don't like watching you masturbate in public. Obviously Trump isn't going to do this. You know, like every sane person knows. So what is this? This is a sexual role play for you.

And I don't want to be a part of your sexual role play in the online space. If you want a guy to like partner with you on this. I'm sure you can find one, but don't here's a way to put

Simone Collins: it. Here's a way to put it. If you don't support that random dude, like masturbating while making eye contact with you on a subway, don't talk to me about Gillian.

That's it because it's the same thing.

Malcolm Collins: And don't go dressed up like this. It's

Simone Collins: okay for you to do that. Then it's okay for that dude to masturbate while looking at you on a subway. Like that's just, just how it is. You know,

Malcolm Collins: don't talk about how men are going to force you to carry kids and I'll say here.

You know, [00:34:00] 1 of the things that I had, I had written down here where they were talking about. Oh, no, this is this is totally legitimate. They were doing a quote by Margaret singer, you know, famous KKK also kind of play parenthood. Who said quote, who wanted to genetically purify the American ethnic group and remove black people.

And there were 25 percent less black people than there would be if she hadn't lived due to all the abortion, even 83 percent of her clinics are still in their communities these days. But anyway, so she said, cause they talked about this as like their great hero so racist on the left quote, no woman can call herself free Who does not control her own body in quote and they're like, yeah, but so like,

isn't this true? Like, if a woman can't get a late stage abortion and we should be clear here because a lot of progressives don't realize this that abortions up until birth are still legal in parts of the United States. Like things that are very obviously humans that have full [00:35:00] neurodevelopment and

Simone Collins: also not even like these, these unborn children are not given pain management while they're

Malcolm Collins: got it.

If she got a C section, the kid would be able to live very easily, but they're just like, no, if it's still in her, she has the right to kill it. And this is very much like

Speaker 43: To kill my mom. She's my mom. I can do whatever I want with her. It's more important I live the way I want. She isn't an object you can own, she's a human being. . Ow! Heya! Ow, she's making you suffer! Eh, maybe all these changes are good for me. Maybe the world doesn't revolve around me.

Maybe the world doesn't revolve around me.

Speaker 44: Blegh, blegh, blegh, blegh. The, the, the Where does it revolve around me?

Malcolm Collins: you know, like, I, this is, this is no longer an issue where you can pretend like you're the victim. You are now using.

What is very [00:36:00] obviously another human being to masturbate in a way that is really messed up when you do this or potential human being to masturbate when you go off on this stuff publicly. And I think that I do love the masturbation response. I think that that needs to be used more aggressively publicly because I think that it would cause if it catches on, which I can totally see it catching on because a lot of progressives to back off of these fantasies pretty quickly.

When they're like, Oh, well, I'm going to be forcibly bred and forcibly impregnated, and it'll be just like Gilead.

Simone Collins: And you respond with, please don't masturbate in public.

Malcolm Collins: Please stop masturbating in public platforms. This is disgusting. If you want to do this privately, I won't shame you, but don't include us in your sexual fantasies.

And if they're like, no, this is real, this is happening to us. And I'm like, do you, or do you honestly believe that? Are you willing to bet that this is going to start happening to women? Because I'm here willing to bet my pride that women are not going to be forcibly bred in the United [00:37:00] States any time soon.

So if I'm saying this, then what are you saying? It's a fantasy.

So, do you want to go over other fun stats from A List stuff, or do you want to end this?

Simone Collins: Let's look at other statistics here. It can

Malcolm Collins: be pretty fun.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, sure. So this is a question that Ayla asked, which is if a woman in my social circle were open slash not open to casual sex, this would have a what effect on her reputation damage, neutral or boost. So, not open to casual sex versus open to casual sex, open to casual sex is red, not open to casual sex is negative.

So, not open to casual sex. is more likely to boost her reputation, whereas open to casual sex is more likely to hurt her reputation. And keep in mind, this is among the type of people that AILA, Sex Researcher, samples.

Simone Collins: Yeah, but also, like, that's not terribly [00:38:00] surprising. Everyone kind of Gets that here's that right?

Malcolm Collins: Maybe here's here's a fun one.

Simone Collins: This

Malcolm Collins: is body count if people have been to a sex party and people haven't been to a sex party.

Simone Collins: Okay, okay. So,

Malcolm Collins: People who have been to a sex party among A list followers is 25, is the average body count. For people who've been to a sex party, that seems surprisingly low given my body count.

Well,

Simone Collins: remember, sex parties are, there's a lot of logistics, it's complicated, there's not that many people there, you can't bang that many people in one night. A lot of people go to sex parties and don't have sex with anyone. So, that doesn't surprise

Malcolm Collins: me. Yeah, okay. For, for not at her stuff this is like, it looks like about like 17, 16.

Yeah, this is a, this is who have been to a sex party and not A list followers.

Speaker 4: Huh.

Malcolm Collins: This is a possibly if, if that's what we use for our surveys if you have not been to a sex party and you are one of A list followers, [00:39:00] you're at like a seven body count. If you're not, you're at like a six body count.

So very similar.

Speaker 4: That seems like a lot. Does that seem like a lot to you? Six is

Malcolm Collins: average.

Speaker 4: Yeah, but that seems like a lot.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I think it's it's it's messed up by people like me. Like I haven't been to a sex party. Yeah,

Simone Collins: but yeah. Yeah. So there must be outliers that really threw off the averages that that's fair.

Malcolm Collins: I would look at the median in terms of body count. My body count is actually I can't remember exactly. So I'm not going to give anything away, but I think it's like, only 4 X less than a less. Which is kind of shocking to me.

Simone Collins: Yeah, whenever you, you've been at an event where Ella has done a lineup of body count, like where the participants in the event are encouraged to line up by body count.

So you can just kind of physically see the distribution. Malcolm is always at the end. I don't know,

Malcolm Collins: for cis

Simone Collins: males,

Malcolm Collins: I'm at the end. No, no, no, you're at the

Simone Collins: end, you're at the end for all people, [00:40:00] but you are often the very, very top for men who only bang women. Most of the men who are at the top of the body count are at least bi, which makes a lot of sense.

Malcolm Collins: That's because they didn't treat it like a job like I did. You know how I am with everything. It

Simone Collins: was kids. I'm like, I'm not the most kid. We're going to factory produce this. This is going to be It's a lot easier to have a lot of sex. When you're, you're allowed to also have sex with men. Then like have a high volume of sex

Malcolm Collins: with only men.

When people are like, Oh, this seems ridiculous. It's like, do you see my attitude? Or I'm like, I'm going to start a podcast and I'm going to do it every day, fully edited for an hour. Is it any surprise

Simone Collins: that his body count is high? Yeah, seriously.

Malcolm Collins: I'm going to have kids. I'm going to have the most kids in the world.

We're going to do a year of the armistice system. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It's zero or a hundred.

Malcolm Collins: Zero or a hundred. It's the only two ways I do things. Yeah.

For people who don't maybe [00:41:00] understand how insane it is that we do one podcast fully edited every single Week day. I would ask you to search your memory and see if a single of their podcast producer or content producer, you know, of does one fully edited. Podcast. Every single

Week.

day without missing a single day. Ever. , we haven't missed a single day since we started doing five days a week. And then remember that I am doing this without a team. And that we have day jobs. And that we also run a nonprofit.

And then we also have four children.

We didn't take days off when Simone was giving birth to our kids, we didn't take days off at Christmas. We didn't take days off at holidays. We didn't take days off when everyone at the family was sick.

And I'd also note here. Do not accidentally compare a fully edited two person podcast with a non edited one person podcast. Not [00:42:00] that, , Those aren't impressive in their own way, but something like asthma gold doing an episode every day or a streamer doing an episode every day. That isn't even remotely comparable to a fully edited podcast.

This is, , which I think shows like how absolutely all in I go whenever I'm trying to do one thing, whether it's the number of kids I'm having or deciding when I was younger. Oh, what makes me a. And this was really the entire reason I did it. It's like in high school. Oh, , what's the status hierarchy here?

How is it determined how good you are at being a guy? Oh, it appears to be how many attractive people you sleep with? , so I'm going to max that out, which was very stupid of me. , I can say that in hindsight, but I can also understand given the dynamics at high schools in America. Even today, why an even intelligent person might come to believe something like that

okay. Now this is a fun one that she did where it looks at the body count of women by their political leaning. Oh yes. [00:43:00] This is great. And you can see it's really, really clear.

The more economically right you are, the higher your body count and the more socially left you are, the higher your body count.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So libertarians

Malcolm Collins: right. Is more predictive of a high body count than being socially left.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So if you want to talk about the second highest body count, almost the highest.

So it's 5. 2 versus 5. 3. The second highest is just one down on the grid sociality. So just slightly left leaning, but very right leaning economically.

Simone Collins: That's so funny.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-9: Sorry, I find this even Wilder. As a woman being socially, very conservative. So max social conservatism, but also max economic conservatism puts you at the exact same average body count. As a woman who is socially very liberal, but economically very liberal. In fact, [00:44:00] as a woman being socially conservative.

And economically very conservative.

puts you at a higher average body count than the most extreme, very liberal, very liberal social and economic women.

Malcolm Collins: And across the side of the economic right is much higher than across the side of the social right. So, libertarian girls, if you want easy women, that's where it's at.

Simone Collins: Yeah. If men want more sexually free women, they should hang out in libertarian groups because that's where they are. Or, like, when you're on a 1st date with a woman and you're like, is she going to hold out, find out her political leanings.

And I would imagine that, like, the most, and I think this shows up in the graph, that the most sort of, brutish women are like, far progressive women,

Malcolm Collins: right? Yeah. Oh, remember we've had that theory where I said that women may poly, and people can check out our other videos, like the Raiders versus Homesteaders hypothesis.

Which is women may switch to preferring more violent types of [00:45:00] sexuality, the more partners they have.

Speaker 3: You

Malcolm Collins: actually see that in this graph here that I'm showing which is to say, if you look at non consent, power dynamic, or medium bondage, as the number of people a woman sleeps with goes up, the more they are into these things.

Which I think is really interesting. And the inflection point for rising in these things seems to happen after a body count Up around 5. 5, I guess I'd say. Which,

Simone Collins: yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So once you get over 5. 5, these things go way up. And once you get over 1, they go medium up. And I think this is because their bodies think that they're sex slaves, basically.

Speaker 4: Hmm. Depressing.

Malcolm Collins: Oh! Women's body count by polyamory! So women who are very poly, they have a body count of over 15 women who are very monogamous. They have a body count of under five. But what's interesting is the big jump between somewhat poly and very poly, somewhat poly it's 11. It is [00:46:00] 16 for very poly.

Speaker 4: Hmm. Five just

Simone Collins: seems like a lot for monogamy too, but I guess if people just aren't getting married anymore, we shouldn't be surprised. Because then it's just serial monogamy that never goes anywhere.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, here, you'd find this interesting, the penetrative sex for women graph.

Speaker 3: So

Malcolm Collins: the average number of partners of penetrative sex a woman has had is 6.

25. Or 2. 4, 6. 24. And you see the distribution here was sort of the, the long end of the distribution being between 12 and

Simone Collins: 13. Wow.

Malcolm Collins: So, really not that high to be honest.

Simone Collins: I don't know. It's hard for me to imagine. I just find everyone put you so repulsive, Malco. Like, I, I, why do you

Malcolm Collins: find me attractive?

Do you found me attractive from the beginning? I don't get it.

Simone Collins: Yeah. You're

Malcolm Collins: sorry. What [00:47:00] I should say is a lot of people find me attractive. I get that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I don't get what's unusual is that I haven't also found other people attractive. I can't. I really can't tell you. I can't tell you.

Malcolm Collins: You're not the only woman who's felt this way, by the way.

Simone Collins: Oh, that is like, Malco sexual. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Other women have been like, for whatever it is, it's like uniquely you.

Simone Collins: So do we need a flag for a sexual orientation? That's your face on it? Because it seems that we do.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. It's caused problems before.

Simone Collins: Oh, so sorry. Well, I feel better for

Malcolm Collins: the girls.

Simone Collins: Difficult for you.

Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: not for me. It's emotionally difficult for me knowing that these women Basically went crazy and I don't know I should look them up see if they ended up getting married or anything

What I am a very diligent person who was looking for a wife who I thought would be [00:48:00] a high earner and very dedicated And obsession was me was not enough to earn that status I told you about the one who was just absolutely obsessed with me, but she interrupted me on a night when I was working on my Stanford business school application.

And I said, this is very important to me. I, I need to achieve this to achieve the future I want to achieve. And she said, I will do literally anything you tell me to please, please, please, you know? And I was like, no, I, I can't. She's like, please. And I was like, this is, this is what would distract a guy.

Speaker 3: This is

Malcolm Collins: exactly what would distract a guy. And so I locked her out and she ended up banging on my door for half the night.

Simone Collins: Very Flintstones. Yeah. Well, you just have that effect on some of us. I don't know what to tell you about. No,

Malcolm Collins: I got in big trouble for that because other people said I was abusive for her, for locking her out of my, my apartment.

And before she didn't live in my apartment, she lived [00:49:00] on a dorm. I was like, go back to your room. But they're like, how could you not give in? I was like, I'm working on a f*****g application. It's important to my future. Don't you understand? You would have never done that, Simone.

Simone Collins: Oh, no. No, no, no. Always be closing.

So, yeah. Well,

Malcolm Collins: I like that Ayla collects this data. I find it super fascinating. He's the

Speaker 3: best.

Malcolm Collins: This changes a lot for me, because while you might have, like, through your knowledge of female romance books, been like, oh, yeah, of course they're publicly masturbating. I thought it was like a joke. And now I'm like, oh, god, they are publicly masturbating.

This is weird and creepy.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. It is, it is, it is definitely a real thing. And now because Trump has been elected, there's this sort of massive mandate and license that people feel like they have that I'm just seeing it all over the place on YouTube now which is really interesting. Like [00:50:00] what?

Oh, just, just people talking about Gilead. Like I've now seen, because every time I see one, I'm like, It may be algo is feeding them to me now because I watched them because I'm like, why are people talking about this? Like why I want to understand why people think this is going to happen. And then every time I watch it and we're like, no, there's like, there's no real reason for them to be talking about this.

And maybe they can argue that there is because in the project 2025, like detailed playbook there were some things where like doctors were supposed to report. Something about women's fertility and they're just, but they're just, no,

Malcolm Collins: this was a total lie. Okay. So we need to talk about what this actually was this was the doctors were supposed to report the number of abortions that happened within their state and they were like, oh, this is tracking like women, whatever, excuse me, even at Tim Walz's state, they tracked the number of miscarriages, but didn't track the number of abortions.

Why do we track babies [00:51:00] that die by accident as different than babies that don't?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Okay. So yeah, again, like it just, they're really grasping at straws in a way where like, I, I want to know, like, if People have legitimate grievances about the new administration, but I just haven't seen any yet.

And, and that's why I keep watching them. But then every time I watch them, I'm like, Oh God, I'm watching people masturbate again. Like, no click away. This is really annoying because you know, I love watching leftist analysis. Both before and after the election. I want to see what they're saying. It's frustrating, but anyway, what am I going to make you for dinner?

Since I can't make We

Malcolm Collins: have taquita meat. I

Simone Collins: mean, I can make more taquitos for you if that's what you want.

Malcolm Collins: Those are so effing good. It's one of your best dishes.

Simone Collins: Oh, then that's easy. I can just do that again.

Malcolm Collins: In the future, I'd get sharper cheddar though, but other than that, it's amazing.

Simone Collins: It is sharp cheddar, but yeah, I mean, you can get some at Trader Joe's or something.

It's like

Malcolm Collins: extra,

Simone Collins: yeah, like extra, extra, extra watch [00:52:00] out. I put some

Malcolm Collins: MSG in it. And I put some Sorry, I'm trying to think of how they could be made a little bit better. We don't have gaucho sauce anymore. I've got to get more of that. I shouldn't make a note of this. What else would go good with it?

Simone Collins: I'm already late, so I gotta, I gotta go. Bye, love you.

Speaker 6: You need to get on the nice list.

Speaker 7: And a serpentine is one of my chocolate coins, and I have one of my chocolate coins, too. So I have a quarter and a half for Jacob and me. Yes. Um, you know, if you be on, if you be nice and kind to everybody, then you be on the nice list. Um, they give presents and whoever is on a bad list doesn't get presents.

Speaker 6: Yes, I, I, I [00:53:00] only on a good list. I'm not gonna be on a bad list. But, oh no, what if you did something naughty? I remember you did something naughty two weekends ago. Two weekends ago? How do you know? Because I was there when you did something naughty. You went and played at the arcade with the video games.

Speaker 7: Oh. But you've done a lot of nice things, so it probably doesn't matter now, right? Yes, playing video games doesn't matter. Ow. Gosh. Hey, buddy, I'll kiss your hand. I'm sorry about that. That looks like you hurt yourself quite a bit there. Okay. You're a tough boy, right? Yeah. I'm pretty tough. So, I'm going to put on this.

That will look so beautiful. It'll look beautiful? Yeah, I think so. I know. And I have the baseballs on it. From my cutie bag. Okay, yesterday.

In this thought-provoking episode, we dive deep into the often misunderstood philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche, exploring his ideas on the immorality of weakness, the concept of the Ubermensch, and how they relate to modern issues like woke culture and tribal morality. We differentiate our views from Nietzsche's, discuss the relevance of his ideas in today's world, and address the broader implications for cultural and societal development. Join us as we unravel complex philosophical concepts and their impact on contemporary thought.

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. Today we are going to be talking. About the immorality of weakness, and I would note here that we are not going to be talking about this from the perspective of niche, but we will be talking a lot about Frederick Nietzsche throughout, especially at the end of this episode to differentiate our views on why weakness should be scorned versus Nietzsche's views on weakness leading fundamentally to immorality.

Because they're actually distinct, but not as distinct as I thought when I went into this subject. And I would say that me studying Nietzsche, very sad. It's just a bunch of instances of me being like, I don't want to be basic, but he actually makes a lot of good points. Very prescient about woke people, but we'll get to that in a second.

Okay. Well, that people will use the sympathy of others to try to exert power over them and that people will manipulate others by acting sympathetic to them [00:01:00] to keep them in a permanently infantilized state that glorifies themselves i. e. the person doing the infantilization. But before we get to all of that, where this was highlighted for me.

Was two things. One is a recent evolution in my understanding of our wider world perspective, which has become a lot more clear to me and sort of how I view clan based structures and how I view morality at the wider societal level than at the individual level, but also a clip that we ran in a recent episode that's a famous scene from Trigon or I don't know if it's a famous scene, but it's a scene that always hit me hard as a kid.

Because in it, there are two characters arguing and the character who is the villain says you have to kill the one character is trying to save a butterfly, the good guy. And then the villain says, well, you just need to kill the spider then basically.

Simone Collins: Because it's a butterfly caught in a web for those.

Because [00:02:00]

Malcolm Collins: if you free the butterfly. Then the spider will eventually starve. You can't, you're not doing a good thing by freeing the butterfly. You're just consigning the spider to a slow death. And the good guy character says no, there's always a way.

Speaker 6: That was the easiest way to stop him. I didn't want to kill the spider unless the spider caught the butterfly, it would die of starvation . You can't save both,

Speaker 5: it's not right to make that choice so easily. . BUt

Speaker 6: I'm not wrong about this, Rem. Wanting to save both is just a naive contradiction. And what would you have rather had us do, just think about it? In the meantime, while we do that, the spider eats the butterfly

Speaker 7: I wanted to save both of them, you idiot!

Malcolm Collins: And the entire Trigun series is based around this philosophy of No matter how bad things are, there is always a way to save the bad guy.

There is always a way to make things right. When in reality, by [00:03:00] attempting to save the bad guy, you often cause much more harm in the longterm. You are masturbating your own sense of justice. Like you being a good person, usually because you don't have to deal with the risk that that bad guy poses to society.

The famous example here, of course, I'm thinking of is the woman who had a person murder her mother. And everyone was like, this is a really bad dude. She petitioned to get them released from prison early, hired them, and then they murdered her when she fired them for stealing from her. Which is to say that a lot of people, when they take this benevolent and magnanimous looking position, they're doing it just to heighten their own sense of I'm a good person without really thinking about the other harm that this person is going to cause, which is what often happens.

If you look at statistics and I'll add some in post here, The vast majority, for example, of thefts are caused by a very, very small majority of thieves who just do it over and over and over again, right? It's the same as just about any crime, right? Very small number of people actually do it, which I think

Simone Collins: Also, [00:04:00] just to be fair, explains the behavior of people who want to give people the benefit of the doubt because the vast majority of humans deserve the benefit of the doubt.

It's a very, very small percentage that really just needs to be distrusted and removed from mainstream society.

Malcolm Collins: The, the, the problem here is I think that we as a society have been conditioned to not believe this by media.

And I'm going to call this the Thai hot Maru problem.

Speaker 2: What's on your mind, Lieutenant? The Kobayashi Maru, sir.

Lieutenant, yOu are looking at the only Starfleet cadet who ever beat the no win scenario.

Speaker: How?

Speaker 2: I reprogrammed the simulation so it was possible to rescue the ship. What? He cheated. I changed the conditions of the test.

I don't believe in the no win scenario.

Malcolm Collins: Now, for people who don't know what the Tai Hot Maru is, the Tai Hot Maru is a famous test from the Star Trek universe that [00:05:00] you are supposed to be unable to pass.

And it's supposed to show what do you do in an unwinnable scenario. And yet our society and media constantly says, when the hero is given an unwinnable scenario, save this person or this person. Save your love or like this group of citizens. The answer is always supposed to be, there is a way to save both.

Simone Collins: And

Malcolm Collins: that is not true. Fundamentally,

Simone Collins: right?

Malcolm Collins: There is not always a way to solve those. And it creates a really toxic mindset around morality for a lot of people because they believe that any decision that leads to harm for some group of people is fundamentally an immoral decision, regardless of the necessity or longterm good of that decision.

And so here, what I wanted to dig into was your response to the try again video because I think it's accurate and it encapsulates our view of morality that [00:06:00] we will go into and why this view of morality leads downstream to some very perplexing beliefs that we have, for example, a lot of people can be like, wait you guys think that there's differences between cultural groups.

So if you think that there's differences between cultural like groups Then why don't you think that like the europeans are the good guys and like, the the jews and like the the blacks are the bad guys when it seems that you actually have a great deal of derision for northern europeans and even more derision for anti semites And yet you hold very pretty neutral views to groups like the hispanics.

And Really really confuses And it's like, well, there's actually a logically consistent reason for all of these beliefs, but you just assume that the reason is that we're capitulating to the urban monoculture without realizing that the position that we're taking is actually even harder to hold than the just generic, you know, Sort of racist person position.

Yeah we don't have some big community that's going to back us up for it Yeah More based [00:07:00] than this other position because it is more unique and out there But simone go through what your thoughts were to the the spider in the web

Simone Collins: Yeah, I mean, I think that there's an obvious correct answer for the spider in the web Which is you leave them alone.

And if the butterfly is You know A strong and resilient butterfly. It will get out of the web. If it is a smart and resourceful and healthy spider, it will eat the butterfly. And you don't want to release the butterfly as if it's a weak butterfly and it continues to reproduce and produce other hapless butterflies, it will hurt all butterfly kind ditto with the spider.

So you just kind of have to let them Duke it out and you shouldn't be intervening. And nature will run its course, which. I guess makes us bad people, but it's very consistent with our Calvinist inspired views, right? Of like, it is not our job to intervene. You are saved or you're not saved. You are fit or you're not, you're going to matter or you're [00:08:00] not, you're going to change history or you're not.

And that is not within our control. We have free will 100%, but we've been dealt the cards. We've been dealt. Does that make sense?

Malcolm Collins: Yes. And I would say that While you can talk about this at the level of the spider and the butterfly, where this matters more when we're making cultural decisions about the cultural groups we admire, and that we look to, and we tell our kids, these are good cultural groups, these are cultural groups you should model yourselves after, these are cultural groups you can learn from.

Are the cultural groups, That are thriving and in an upwards trajectory So i'll note here when I say in an upwards trajectory the unique amount of derision we have towards things like european cultural groups or Americans who are born into positions of relative privilege, but haven't been able to secure a family is downstream of the belief that they should have had access to all sorts of advantages, and yet they are still failing.

Why are they failing despite their [00:09:00] historic position of strengths? That must mean that their culture is uniquely ill fitted to our time and place. Essentially, and people get very surprised, they're like, but I thought you guys care about diversity. And this is where you need to understand the way we relate to diversity.

So, If we care about cultural diversity, we see every individual culture as a hypothesis about how people might live and thrive and get through the current challenges, both technological and social, that our species is facing, and if every culture is a hypothesis, a culture that is failing to thrive.

under these conditions is fundamentally an incorrect hypothesis. I do not care about incorrect hypotheses thriving. I care about the greatest diversity of correct hypotheses thriving. Because the greater diversity of correct hypotheses we have, the less of a monoculture we will have, and the more resistance we will have to unknown threats.

We humanity the species will have [00:10:00] two threats that may occur in the future. So

Simone Collins: in other words, we're looking at cultures and cultural technology that produces human flourishing and if it fails to do that then we don't see The point in trying to intervene and save it because in the end it is producing suffering it is producing harm It is producing death and it's causing damage and it's holding humanity back

Malcolm Collins: Well, yes, and this happens at two levels and there's two reasons to have this derision one is for yourself And for your own culture and family So if I looked with admiration, for example, we were doing the episode on on modern German culture recently that we were pointing out is really, really failing right now, if I looked with admiration at the culture in Germany right now, and I told my kids, Oh, you should admire that.

You should follow that. They would end up weaker because that culture is failing. I need to teach them to see that culture with a degree of disgust. And if they can [00:11:00] do that, then they are less likely to follow a culture that isn't thriving or pick up bad ideas. But if they see a group that is doing well, a high fertility, economically thriving cultural group it, they should look at that group and be like, Oh, for whatever reason in our current cultural context, this group is doing really well.

What can I steal from them? It reminds me of the Klan people, as I've mentioned, who go into the backwoods, which can help people understand pluralism as a cultural value system, which is to say that when the backwoods cultural group, the greater Appalachian group in America, when they immigrated into this country and they encountered the Native Americans they butchered lots of Native Americans, when contrasted with the Puritans or the Quakers or the other cultural groups in the region.

But they also didn't dehumanize the native americans They married into native american families at very very high rates. They adopted tons of native american cultural technologies They basically saw the native americans as just a another group in this inter clan [00:12:00] competition You know if you have the hatzfields and the mccoys the native americans are just another Group that we should try to take their stuff and learn what they're doing.

That's working and learn what they're doing. That's not working No, I'm not saying that that should work, that that's like a good way to do things, or that's the way things should work in a modern context, and I'll discuss why this is, is, is uniquely bad in a second, but I'm saying that it epitomizes this view of diversity, which is to say That when you see another group not doing well, you're like, okay, i'm gonna take their stuff But like like I will outcompete them but when you see a another group that is doing well in some way you're like, okay, what can I learn from them?

Everyone is equally human to you and everyone is part of this game to you Whereas to groups like the quakers the native americans weren't really human. They were like The child or something that needed to be protected and kept in a zoo, but like there was obviously nothing to learn from them There was obviously nothing no reason to respect them or marry into their families or etc, right?

[00:13:00] And this is also a very interesting thing, which is why people who have this pluralistic cultural competition mindset End up being much more, from stronger cultures because they believe they have to be a strong culture. It is a position of internal cultural weakness that leads to an individual shying away from this world perspective, because it means that.

When you look at other groups, you think if they could intermingle with my group or if we were competing within a fair equal environment, I would be outcompeted when you are certain that you will outcompete others. You always want equality. Strong groups always fight for equality while groups that have an internal weakness.

A fear of being out competed, they will always compete for isolation.

Simone Collins: And either you will think, if you're in one of these groups that you're really confident about, that your group will just take over all the other groups and make the world better, or that in the end, only the strong groups will remain and the world will be better.

But either, either [00:14:00] perspective. Has an adherent believing that the world will be better off, especially if the weaker groups are allowed to run their course and stop existing.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. And an interesting thing about this philosophy, and this is where actually something that Nietzsche talks about aligns with something that we believe, which is he argues that being sympathetic to someone who is suffering, or I don't believe he uses the word sympathy.

What's the word he uses here?, showing pity to somebody who is suffering is fundamentally to infantilize them and to prevent them from rising up. But this doesn't mean never help people who are suffering. Help them with magnanimity. And when you help another culture with magnanimity, You are helping them with the intention of creating a group that competes against your own and through that competition makes you sharper.

I like that. And I, I

Simone Collins: think the point isn't to say into the garbage, like, can these guys go or like, maybe it would be better if we just accelerate [00:15:00] their demise. No, it's, it's give them tools to maybe have them change because as they are now, isn't clearly sustainable. And. Help them, give them an out, maybe offer them the chance to join your group.

Malcolm Collins: It's important to note that one of these tools needs to be derision and looking down on them. Because if you accept another group for their failure, as the progressives do, handing out Yeah, yeah. That evangelizes them and it insults them. It doesn't just insult them. It traps them because it puts them at a local optimum where it is better for them to continue with their state of non contribution over exploring what potential other pathways might be available to them.

Simone Collins: And another avenue, or I guess arena or part of our lives in which we see this is that classic issue with teachers. Where is a student sometimes it'd be really annoying if a teacher was really critical of [00:16:00] you or would like put a lot of time into showing you what an idiot you are with your work or how much you could improve your form on something like in martial arts or in a sport.

And you would complain to a parent and say, like, well, why are they being so mean? Like, can't I just. And your parent would explain to you that teacher actually cares about you. Like they don't give a s**t about anyone else in the class. They're just letting everyone else skate by and basically be mediocre, but they're investing in you because you have potential.

And I think that's the same kind of dynamic here. Are you going to. Just let them slide by and feel bad for the fact that they're mediocre and bad and not encourage them to improve? Or are you going to recognize the potential they have to flourish and invest in it?

Malcolm Collins: Well, and I think that this can be seen in the way that we approach things like philanthropy.

You can look at the Collins Institute, which is a institution that is designed to teach people and be free. And as an education source that we built for our own kids education primarily, but we made it free to anyone else who wants to use it to put all of human knowledge at their fingertips. And that.

[00:17:00] This is fundamentally opposed to many of the progressive solutions to things like poverty, which is to say, Oh, well, we'll give them money. Oh, well, we'll give them houses. Oh, well, we'll give them this and this and this which is a form of enablement. But it also makes the progressive dominated areas worse because they end up attracting more of these economically unproductive individuals.

And so people can look like when a progressive looks at what we're offering, they're like, well, yeah, but the homeless people may not want. To use your education system. They may not want to attempt to educate themselves. And it's like, well, That's a problem then, isn't it? And then they're like, well, what if they have, what if they have like severe mental illnesses and stuff like that, what if they've got all of these other, you know, problems?

And it's like, well, this is the thing. I believe that everyone is capable of economically contributing in this country, unlike you progressive. I think that when you lower the amount of restrictions that people have on them, there is always a way to make a living. I believe that [00:18:00] everyone has some utility to society, which is fundamentally different than the view that you are espousing, which is that these individuals must be permanently infantilized.

And I believe that there is a class that is born with that level of mental disability, but I think it's a much smaller class than is functionally left disabled by the way progressives handle things like homelessness. for this.

Simone Collins: That and improvement requires tough love. Improvement requires being critical. It's something also that shows up at a lot in your, in my relationship, right? People think, oh, can you believe that they would criticize each other or encourage each other to be better for me to be like, Hey, Malcolm, you could do this better, or you'd be like, Simone, like this was a great meal, but it needs more of this or that.

And by the way, you're totally right. That race needed way more salt or like MSG. It just needed to kick. But like the fact that we do that it's because we care and it's because we love each other and it's because we respect each other and we live in a culture now that sees [00:19:00] criticism as an act of violence, rather than an act of care.

And I think it's that contextualization that needs to change. a complete rebrand now and a complete overhaul because we have to return to an age in which giving someone criticism, giving someone room for improvement is an act of, and it's seen as an act of care and love. We can, we can get there. And I think people are ready for that, but I think it's going to take a lot of work because we've been so indoctrinated, even from your and my childhood of thinking.

That critical feedback is violence technically speaking. Yeah. And

Malcolm Collins: So people will hear this philosophy and they'll think oh well This means you think this the strong should lord over the weak that the strong should Push around the week when instead we're saying the exact opposite.

Anybody who knows us knows that we have a very high opinion of ourselves and our family culture, which I think all culture should. You don't have pride in who you are. Then why are you existing? Why are you doing any of this? Why are you passing on your [00:20:00] culture to the next generation? We have an incredibly Yeah.

A high degree of pride in who we are, and yet we focus our efforts on trying to help other cultures and communities that are struggling right now and making it through something like demographic collapse, even cultures that are very different from our own. And we want that because we want our kids to have a diverse group of competitors.

To further hone themselves if humanity becomes homogenous humanity has fundamentally failed because we are no longer Intergenerationally improving we are just a blob The same thing forever

Speaker 12: So cast off your fears of age and blight. In putrescence find your true delight. For in my real all I cherish, so let my blessings upon you grow. Embrace the Let Bloom inaction.[00:21:00]

Join

my God.

Malcolm Collins: because we are no longer Intergenerationally improving we are just a blob The same thing forever and I think that this leads to conflict between us like some people are like, why are you so antagonistic? To cultures that attempt to enforce their values on other cultures so for example Cultures that try to enforce oh anti gay marriage.

All society shouldn't have gay marriage. And I'm like, no, the cultures that are against gay marriage can do better. They should do better, but you can't enforce this on other people. Like Sharia law is bad. Right. And they're like, no, I think that my culture needs to be enforced on everyone. And then people who have this perspective you often see a high overlap with this and things like antisemitism and stuff like that.

And I think that there's this influencer class who I'll move away from naming them specifically, but who. Have an overlapping fan base with our own who [00:22:00] have a confluence of these sorts of perspectives, and people are surprised by the amount of intense derision we have towards these individuals. And I think that they think that this derision that we have towards these individuals is.

A capitulation to the urban monoculture instead of literally for the exact same reason we have derision for the urban monoculture. And perhaps even in greater measure, because when I look at the type of person who might be saved, who might be able to build a strong culture themselves, who might be able to build some sort of level of intergenerational thrivingness.

These types of individuals are drawn to right leaning philosophies like ours, but they can also be lured by the siren calls of these other philosophers, which where the aesthetics of the right leaning community and people can be like, what, what do you mean? Like, like, like, be specific here. And I'm like, well, I see no different from your standard anti Semite than I see your average BLM protester.

These are both individuals who are from one cultural group, whether it's like a black [00:23:00] cultural group or whether it's from. A white supremacist cultural group who sees another culture out competing them. Whether it's academically or in the number of famous people they have, or in the number of politicians they have, or in the number because Jews do very well in those categories or in their economic success.

And they basically get angry and flip over the board like a child and are like, you must be cheating instead of being willing to see any flaw in themselves. And these individuals are worthy of the highest level of score, much higher than just a culture that's failing because they're not just a culture that's failing their culture that is incapable of improving itself because it is incapable of seeing its own laws or when other people are out competing it, which means that when I'm, you know, interacting with my kid and I want to ensure really, really, really stay away from values like this or people like this.

That's what we're looking at. And The highest degree of toxicity in this comes from when we look at how to better our culture, and I think that these two cultural groups [00:24:00] can really be seen here how they differ. Both groups might believe the goal is cultural supremacy cultural supremacy through individual competition, which is a little different, but we, when we're improving our culture, or I guess I should say, both of these groups see their goal as cultural improvement.

But when we're looking at cultural improvement, we are looking at other cultures and trying to see how they're doing well or hypothesized ways we can do our own culture better while looking to our culture's history to see what parts of it worked in the past. Well, and I improve their future. They're looking to purify their culture by going back to some sort of cargo cult aesthetic of an imagined past greatness, which existed for almost no culture on Earth.

Simone Collins: Yes, and we need to see a return to. Friendly rivalry and a good form, which I, I don't know, reading J. M. Barrie's Peter Pan introduced me to the concept of good form in a way that I just really loved because it, it gave me a peek into [00:25:00] how people used to view healthy rivalry in the past, which is, and then maybe I'm totally romanticizing this and misremembering it.

But the idea is that you would compete with someone and you would compete along, I guess, certain rules of like basically being a good sport or a bad sport. And it, a rival was seen as a good thing that you wanted in your life. It was, it was like a knife enjoys seeing something can sharpen itself on it and it knows that it needs it.

And right now when people see groups that are in competition or even opposition that hold different values, they see them as a threat that has to be eliminated. They see them as a thing that they should take out in using any means available, including very bad form. Whereas in the past, I really love this concept of seeing opponents in life, seeing rivals as a source of improving your own fitness.

And when you lost, you would lose in good [00:26:00] humor, understanding that you've learned something from it and that you will become stronger through the act of losing, figuring out what you did wrong. And then getting excited about having another round with this. opposing entity or person and hopefully winning next time.

But you can't get there if you don't engage. And if you don't take everything with good humor, good sportsmanship and good form.

Malcolm Collins: Exactly. Well, and, and, you know, this is where I get so high in my derision of these groups is They haven't the capacity to improve anymore because of that because they see a group beating them as a group Victimizing them.

They are unable to believe because of this usually a lionization of a fictional historic past greatness That their culture could lose in a fair competition. And so they'll say well then the competition wasn't fair [00:27:00] And this matters to us because as soon as people realize that cultures are actually different and groups are actually different, they then want to say, well, mine's good.

But if you say yours is good, not because of you, not because of your individual efforts to improve that culture, but because historically it has some. claim to supremacy, it will inevitably fail and is also uniquely tempting and dangerous to individuals who are close to the path of, I think, cultural actualization, which is, again, why we constantly deride these groups so much.

Speaker 4: And here I really want to highlight something that is often missed by people, but Nazis really were just the we was kangs for white germanic people. , if people aren't familiar with the we was kings meme, it is this joke around some people in modern black culture that will try to take credit for all of these historic moments or characters in history [00:28:00] saying, oh, ancient Greeks, that was all black people or, oh, you know, uh, the first battery or the first, you know, they, they think Wakanda is real basically.

Speaker 20: The original rulers of England and Britain

Speaker 21: were black. That's King George of England, a light skinned black man. You clearly see the Vikings as black men.

Speaker 22: Do you see that with your glasses? These are black men. Jesus is a black man.

Speaker 23: Beethoven. Black. Mozart. Black. Henry VIII. Black. William Shakespeare. Shakespeare.

Speaker 22: Undoubtedly

black.

Speaker 8: We was kings and s**t, that's the truth we spit M is con, Alexander too Black as f**k, yeah, they knew what's true Caesar, Napoleon, all them cats Black power, homie, we created that We started China, Japan, and Rome, India, too, man, we claimed every throne.

Built the Great Wall, Taj Mahal, no cap. Babylon's gardens, yeah, we did all that. We brought democracy, math, [00:29:00] and science. Set the standards, made the world reliant. We was kings, and that's no lie.

Yasuke, the greatest samurai ever known. His legend grew, as black as our own.

Malcolm Collins: Aristotle, Socrates, yeah, they was black. Plato too, that's a straight up fact.

, and we laugh at them and are like, oh, that's so silly, but that's exactly. Who both the Nazis were in a historic context, but also a lot of the modern neo Nazi movement falls into this category in that, you know, the Nazis would say, oh, well, Buddha, he was actually Aryan. He wasn't Indian, of course.

Or you'll get, not even exaggerating here, I have seen this in our own comment section when we're talking about, oh the ancient Greeks did stuff, it wasn't the ancient Celts, it wasn't the ancient northern Europeans, it wasn't the ancient Germans, and they're like, oh don't you know?

Just like in the Kangs. Stereotype. Don't you know that, , like Socrates and Alexander and all that, they were actually northern European guys? And all of the ancient Greeks, they actually used to be northern Europeans? And it's like, oh my god, you sound exactly like a Kang's [00:30:00] guy.

Aristotle, Socrates, yeah, they was black. Plato too, that's a straight up fact.

Speaker 4: And they would talk about how great, like, German and Aryan civilization was.

When anyone who studied Roman history knows that they were, Of the barbarians, one of the most barbaric, , along with my own ancestors in, in, in Britain. You know, these people were basically animals when the Romans were building all of their great stuff, when the ancient Greeks were building all of their great stuff.

, and so I view both movements and individuals with equal derision. In the same breath here if the progressive movement's goal is to force everyone into the urban monoculture, you have a number of options.

ideological arguments against that, like the clan based argument that we're presenting here. But in addition to these ideological arguments, there is athetic conservatives. So in the same way that, you know, some progressives like to dress up like furries and furries [00:31:00] broadly are a progressive movement, , in the conservative movement, we have these people who like to LARP in sort of this cargo cult of the 1950s trad family that they, you know, got from Hollywood.

Uh, not taking into account that if they saw something come out of Hollywood today, they'd be like, Well, that's obvious propaganda and not real. And I'd be like, yeah, and what was happening in the 1950s was Hollywood propaganda heavily influenced by the Legion of Decency, , and it's okay to have them in the movement. Like we, we have many of the same goals, but them attempting to impose this LRP that they're playing on other people hurts us in election cycles.

And is the conservative version and should be treated, I think, with equal derision to when progressives do this, , of, you know, the trans community trying to legally force people to use their pronouns. If, if they can gain status within their own little local hierarchies for playing that LARP, fine. , if they can gain status by signaling that they want to impose that LARP on other people, fine.

But they need to learn that when they're hurting us in election cycles for [00:32:00] something that is obviously, it's no sort of. philosophical backbone to it other than an aesthetic. , that's where we need to draw the line and there needs to be some degree of pushback.

Malcolm Collins: But now I want to go into Nietzsche, because a lot of people will hear this and see rhyming parts. Have you ever studied Friedrich Nietzsche's philosophy?

Simone Collins: Nietzsche? No. What do you

Malcolm Collins: know about it, broadly, before I go into it?

Simone Collins: What do I know about his philosophy? There's the ubermunch. There's a fairly blackpilled approach to humanity.

And society, and there is a deeply unhappy man who people have misframed as an incel, just because he like never married, but it's not like he was actually an incel who was generally fairly unhealthy and didn't have very great relationships in his life, but had really great ideas and left behind that legacy that has since mostly resonated with young people.

How, how accurate am I [00:33:00] agreeing with him a lot? No, no, we would totally end up agreeing with him a lot because we take a

Malcolm Collins: very Okay, well, here I'll ask you a different question. What do you think his view on the ubermensch was? What is your vague understanding of the ubermensch?

Simone Collins: If I were to frame it in our terms or state it in our terms, it would be that some people really matter and the rest of people just don't know.

That's not it. Okay. What is it?

Malcolm Collins: He believes the ubermensch is someone who creates their own values and meaning in life, rather than accepting pre existing moral frameworks.

Oh

Simone Collins: wow, so we totally like that, because that's basically what the pragmatist's guide to life is all about, is decide for yourself what you believe and why.

Malcolm Collins: So this individual affirms life completely, saying yes to all aspects of existence, Including both joy and suffering. He believes that this individual has to has overcome and have self mastery.

A fundamental aspect of the Übermensch is the ability to overcome oneself continually. This involves mastering one's own instincts, passions, and even one's quote unquote evil tendencies. The Übermensch strives for constant self improvement and self overcoming. This worldliness he positions the Übermensch as a counterpoint [00:34:00] to otherworldly religious ideals.

The Übermensch is focused on giving meaning to life on Earth rather than seeking fulfillment in a spiritual or afterlife realm. Creative power, the Übermensch is described as a quote unquote poet of life. Someone who creates and destroys in the process of self realization. This creative power extends to the formation of new values and the ability to shape one's own identity, independence, and responsibility.

An Übermensch takes full responsibility for their life and choices, not relying on external authority or scapegoats. They are capable of standing alone and embracing the freedom and responsibility that comes with self determination. Embracing life's challenges, rather than seeking comfort or easy solutions, the Übermensch welcomes challenges, conflicts, and adversity as opportunities for growth and self realization.

So the Übermensch

Simone Collins: is

Malcolm Collins: just a reasonable, logical person who takes ownership of what they believe? Wait, hold on, hold on. I'm not, I'm getting to the end here. Transcendence of common morality. The ubermensch goes belong conventional morality, recognizing its socially constructed nature. However, this does not mean being amoral, but rather creating [00:35:00] a personal ethical framework based on life affirming values.

In essence, Nietzsche's Übermensch represents the highest potential of human beings. Someone who has overcome societal constraints, created their own values, and fully embraced the challenges and joys of earthly existence.

It's important to note that Nietzsche saw this as an ideal to strive towards, not necessarily a concrete reality or call for a superior race. So, continue. Your thoughts. So

Simone Collins: this sounds like someone who just owns their own morality and lives life. According to it, in accordance with their, the values that they have decided independently for themselves without being told what to do by society matter.

And that there's nothing exceptional about this kind of person, aside from the fact that it is fairly exceptional for someone to be a part of society. We didn't think he existed yet. Wasn't he one of those people? No. So what you know, because he doesn't seem to be the kind of person who went by society values

Malcolm Collins: were were influenced by the values of society and that other people's values were influenced by the values of [00:36:00] society and that these were not truly independently crafted values.

Simone Collins: Okay,

Malcolm Collins: well, he's probably being a little hard on himself, but I don't know, Simone. I'd ask you this other than us. How many people do you know who created their own values all like we go through in the pragmatist guide to life? How many have actually followed through with that?

Simone Collins: I think I mean, someone, obviously, because we spoke with him recently give me a moment here.

Monarchist. Curtis Jarvin. Yeah. I think that

Malcolm Collins: What

Simone Collins: is his name again? Ernest

Malcolm Collins: Yarvin. Sorry. Hold on, hold on. I'll add it. So this morning, Simone and I were doing what we call a list of live players.

These are people we need to follow up with and know. So, our list because basically they're acting. This is

Simone Collins: cribbing from Sam Oberge's concept of live players, which is someone who I don't know. Is thinking independently and likely to change the trajectory of, of change. Humanity because they're not going to act in [00:37:00] the way that any other optimal thinker would when placed in some kind of wind up toy position.

Malcolm Collins: But the point I'm making, Simone, is that we made this list this morning. So this is like a list of basically Uber mentions, you could say. Yeah. So on that

Simone Collins: list are people like Ayla, like Curtis Yarvin. These people definitely are thinking How long

Malcolm Collins: is the list? It's like maybe 12 people. It's like maybe 12 people.

The list is, and I want to make absolutely clear here, not limited to the live players in our social networks. It's not live players we think we can build a connection with. Yes,

Simone Collins: some of these people are people we've never had a conversation with. They don't know who we

Malcolm Collins: are.

Every live player on Earth is today. that we could identify. Simone, with the internet, how many more people do you think we know than Nietzsche knew within his lifetime?

Simone Collins: Okay, touche.

Malcolm Collins: He knew people who were maybe writing books within [00:38:00] his lifetime, and then, like, people in his surrounding town. The number of people that we see, we are looking at Cities of like millions and millions of people and not like one city, but multiple cities.

We are looking at like the smartest of the smart people in our society who get together to hold private events where, you know, we are picked for those events because like successful people think, Oh, you guys are uniquely smart. And then we are, we are, we are leveraging those networks. To find every other live player we can find, and there's just not that many.

Like, when you went to Hereticon, which is like, some of the wealthiest people in the world, they go out and they find all of the greatest, most heretical thinkers of our time, and the most common complaint among the live players there was, it's just not that heretical here.

Simone Collins: Yeah, there's a lot of like, we want more spicy conversations, but part of that and part of the discussion when people were saying that was, have we just become desensitized at this point?

Malcolm Collins: No, no. So my point is, Simone, if you look at, if you [00:39:00] assume that the rate of live players within Nisha's lifetime is the same as the rate of live players within our lifetime, and ubermensch means live player, is it really that weird that he wouldn't have met anyone that fit that qualification in his life?

Yeah.

Simone Collins: Okay, you, you make a strong point and I'm probably I'm, I'm conflating his existence with the existence of that sort of Vienna cafe, culture, turn of the century, social club of people who are all very influential intellectuals. But he wasn't in that. But he wasn't in that and so that's, that's my problem of just kind of mushing history all together and being like, I don't know, all smart dead people kind of hung out with each other.

Like we're going to

Malcolm Collins: have live players throughout history, but Nietzsche was not in one of those communities. In fact, his work was not recognized until after he died. So he'd have no reason to think that he was uniquely brilliant or anything like that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Okay. Then totally understood. And thank you for giving me that [00:40:00] explanation.

And it's interesting that this concept comes up again in Samuel Berger's work and comes up again in what we're at least in what we're calling people to become in the pragmatist guide to life. I didn't realize we were essentially asking people to become Yeah, the pragmatist guide to

Malcolm Collins: becoming an ubermensch.

That is what the book basically is.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-4: I really want to emphasize here how rare people are, who create their own value system, even though Simone was like, but even that the basic that expected of everyone. We have been environments that are supposed to be the places where the best and the brightest of our society. Colette, you know, I have a Stanford MBA.

She had the graduate degree from Cambridge.

Whatever you think of higher institution utility, it is true that it can open some doors with you for you indefinitely. , of the people who are going into higher education. , Stanford business school is probably the hardest program to get into. And Cambridge is one of the most classically prestigious. Graduate programs to get into. And neither did I [00:41:00] meet a single person? I would put in this Uber man category and I frequently, like one of my go-to conversations is okay. What are you? What do you want from your life?

Like what has value? What's good. And So few people had anything other than like an aesthetic explanation for that. Like, I want this athletic outcome, or I want this set of things that I was taught to expect from life. Instead of having some like underbrush line. Logical explanation or you get pretty, um, you know, childish life philosophies, like, oh, things that make me feel good are good.

And I should maximize feeling good among the population. , which is, you know, what you normally get from w just, hasn't put a lot of thought into life, I guess. And so, yeah. I was, I think that, , I would commend to people that if you're out there and if you're young and you're like, okay, when am I going to finally meet the.

Intellectually active people. , I might give up on that or not give up on that, but understand that you're going to meet them by doing the types of things that you, as an intellectually active person would decide to do. So [00:42:00] like, If I was at the prenatal it's convention, which is coming up soon, by the way, you can check it out.

And the code word to get a discount is Collins. , you're probably going to meet a lot of people like that. There. Just because if you were looking at the world's problems today and you're not concerned about what other people think of you. You're probably going to be like, oh, fertility rates. That's an issue. , I should probably be working on that in some way. , or, you know, Some stuff around AI. You might see them in, in, in higher numbers.

, so it like was the cafes of oldest. Simone was talking about. It is the places where the best and the brightest coalesced to talk about the problems of the time and not be accrediting institutions where you're going to find life players.

Simone Collins: But I'm glad that we, I mean, I don't know, I kind of have insistently tried not to read Nietzsche because I don't want to be one of those people who is constantly influenced by, I personally, and this is another thing about our more backwoods influenced culture.

Is that we, we look down upon people who speak in the terms of other [00:43:00] philosophers and constantly refer to them. Oh, I hate it. As soon as somebody starts quoting philosophers to me, I'm like, oh, so you're an

Malcolm Collins: idiot.

Simone Collins: Yeah, like just state things in simple terms and, and stop trying to front and show me how well read you are.

This really bothers me. Well, and

Malcolm Collins: I think that Nietzsche does a good job of this. He's also very against, like, cruelty of the strong to the weak. People think he does anything, he's like, no, he'd view that as a form of weakness. You know, that's like the adult who plays children in tennis to dunk on them.

Simone Collins: Oh, well, and I can probably dig up this study and find it for you if you ask me for it before you run this. But I can share with you the study that showed that people in like a technical academic field who are lower in status tended to use more jargon than people who are higher in status, because it's a way for, if you actually are low status to try to puff yourself up.

If you're of high status, all you want to do is explain things in dumbed down terms that people can understand. So honestly, the more dumbed down your terminology is, the higher status you are. And you know, someone who's really amazing at that. Is Elon Musk. [00:44:00] When he explains things, he uses extremely simple terms, he doesn't make references, he speaks in words that everyone can understand, including children, and I think that's great.

Oh, I

Malcolm Collins: absolutely agree. You know who else is good at that is Trump. Never, never you know, uses these, like, obscure references or anything like that. Like, he's interested in getting his point across. Now, let's talk about Nietzsche's view of weakness, because a lot of people are going to see it as correlatory to our view of weakness when they are distinct, but I'm going to say that his view of weakness is not stupid.

So a lot of people would say that he argues that weakness leads to immorality. So he calls this the, the slave morality. Okay. So, oh no. Is

Simone Collins: this his term for sheel or something? Is this just

Malcolm Collins: maybe a little bit. Okay. So he, there's this thing called slave morality in which the weak are unable to assert themselves psychologically or socially.

They are developed.

Simone Collins: So this is his word for lemmings or sheel [00:45:00] or, or, or n pc. It's a bit

Malcolm Collins: different. It's a bit different than that.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay.

Malcolm Collins: They develop resentment towards the strong. They create a moral system that redefines weakness as virtuous. Traits like humility, meekness, and obedience become quote unquote good.

Strengths, pride, and self assertion become quote unquote evil. So essentially what he believes is that when individuals are weak, they redefine the rules of the game to make weakness strengths and to look down upon and see with contempt the things that some individuals have, which give them strengths over of weak individuals.

So if I'm a weak individual and I see somebody who has achieved things, I can't because of their willpower or because of their cunning, I will redefine willpower or cunning as evil.

Simone Collins: That's so interesting because I thought that this behavior was a very modern phenomenon. I thought. Quite frankly, that [00:46:00] those disempowered enough to see themselves in these weak positions have only just recently been given the platform and ability to shape culture.

What he's implying with this definition, if you have it right, is that the weak, for a very long time, have had cultural influence and the ability to reshape narratives and have been trying to do this since at least his. Lifetime, which is surprising.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, actually he saw the beginning of this influence coming from a christian morality oh, yeah, which I mean

Simone Collins: of course like ever since the the new testament ever since jesus This was the thing, you know, the meek shall inherit the earth, right?

But

Malcolm Collins: yes, and I think this is an over You know, extrapolation of that line within Christianity. I do not believe that this is I think if you look at something like turn the other cheek and that stuff that is not weakness.

Simone Collins: It's about being tough and it's about being oriented around your values. Rather than your

Malcolm Collins: values over other people's [00:47:00] values.

It's about not listening, not responding, not If somebody is attacking you, you do not need to be baited into that. Yes. And I'd also say the same with the meekness. This is about social inversion. It is not about weakness. Jesus didn't say the weak will inherit the earth. Yes, it's the meek. Well, I'll look up the definition of the word as Jesus meant it in the context because I think it's likely not.

Oh yeah, what the original word was. Yeah,

Simone Collins: everything's lost in translation.

Speaker 13: Oh, it's the meek! Blessed are the meek!

Oh, that's nice, isn't it? I'm glad they're getting something, because they had hell of a time

Malcolm Collins: Are you. In kidding me. Okay. So I go up to look. What does the word that is translated into English? As meek

where Jesus says blessed are the meek for, they will inherit the earth. I was like, okay. Cool. Well, what does it mean? It means having self control the term is most frequently used to describe a horse that is tamed that what. , it means you [00:48:00] are a being of great strings, but you act with gentleness humility and self-control of course, no one would want us to know what is being said.

There are blessed are those with self-control for, they will inherit the earth. The one thing we're not allowed to have.

Would note that, , when I had mentioned this before in videos that were actually filmed after this video and edited after this video. So I'm adding this sort of in post. , somebody was like, oh, well, if you look at this argument, Meek actually is better translated as gentle. However, if you actually look at the instances in the argument that this person is providing, it's very clearly self-control fits better than the word gentle.

So I'll give you some examples here. This is from the Nixonian. , ethics from Aristotle where he's using this word and we can try putting in the word self-control and we can try then putting in the word gentle. , and you'll see that self-control just fits better. It's pretty clear that this word meant self-control. All right now we praise a [00:49:00] man who feels anger on the right grounds and against the right persons and also in the right manner. And at the right moment for the right length of time, he may then be called. Self-controlled. If we take having self-control to be a praise where the quality. For those with self-control really denote a calm, temper, not led by emotion, but only by becoming angry in such a manner for such causes and for such links of time.

As principal may ordain. Although the quality is through rather to air on the site of defect since the man with self-control is not prompted to seek redress for injuries, but rather inclined to forgive them. Now. Let's put gentle in here and you'll see that gentle just makes so much less sense. Now we praise the man who feels anger on the right grounds and against the right person and also in the right manner at the right moment.

And for the right length of time, he may then be called gentle tempered. If we take gentleness to be a praise where really quality for gentle really denotes [00:50:00] a calm, temper, not led by emotion. Is that what gentle decline?

It indicates a calm, temper, not led by emotion, but only becoming angry, , for such cases, um, that have like, , we're principal may ordain.

No, that's not what a gentle person would do. A person who is self-control would only become angry when their principal would tell them to become angry and not in reaction to things. A person was self-control would be a person who is able to restrain their temper. , and, I should note what's really cool here is we have Aristotle here basically in long form defining what this word actually meant, which is so, so cool that we get that. , but it, it means more than just a generic self-control it means very specifically the ability to control the emotions that you are expressing to other people. Or experiencing yourself, , in the face of, , something that might anger someone or something that might otherwise cause distress to an individual.

So it's very specifically self control over your emotional [00:51:00] state or at least the emotional state that you're expressing to other individuals. And it makes perfect sense to me that people with self-control and self-discipline would inherit the earth. Oh yeah, of course.

Speaker 10: How blessed are the sorrowful! They shall find consolation! How blessed are those of gentle spirit! They shall have the earth for their possession! How blessed are those who hunger and thirst to see right prevail!

Speaker 11: What waS that? I was too busy talking to Big Nose. I think it was blessed are the cheese makers. What's so special about the cheese makers?

Speaker 14: Well, obviously, it's not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.

Speaker 11: You hear that? Blessed are the Greek. The Greek? Well, apparently, he's going to inherit the Earth. Did anyone catch his name?

Speaker 13: Oh, it's the meek! Blessed are the meek!

Oh, that's nice, isn't it? I'm glad they're getting something, because they had hell of a time.

Malcolm Collins: People used parts of Christian theology as early as Anisha's time and weaponized them. However, I would disagree with Anisha in the way that this So in Nietzsche's mind, [00:52:00] specific individuals see other individuals becoming strong or successful and then to psychologically protect themselves, they say, Oh, the things that make them strong and successful are the things that are bad about them.

I actually don't think it plays out that way. I think it happens at the level of cultural systems, as I've mentioned before. I. E. You will have one cultural system as we've noted in the United States that originally, for example, said, Oh, if something creates disgust within you, then it is immoral, whether that is, you know, a diseased person or two men kissing or you know, the poor.

Right? And then that began to create a lot of. Negative externalities and then another cultural group was like, oh, we shouldn't be looking at things that way clearly This leads to you know This is the mother theresa thing, you know hug the lepers even if they create an evolved sense of disgust in you because you know in an evolutionary context if you hug people that leprosy you get leprosy and die, right?

Like there's a biological reason to not hug somebody who looks horrifyingly sick she was like [00:53:00] you need to overcome that you need to learn to love them and this appears on its surface You To be a superior moral ideology. And I agree that it is in so far as it differentiates between the intrinsic disgust reaction, but even to Nisha, that intrinsic disgust reaction is something you need to learn to master with the mistake that this cultural group makes is it begins to elevate the disgust reaction.

It begins to say the things that create disgust are the things that are good at a cultural level. And I think you see this in a lot of modern art. I think, yeah. And the uglification

Simone Collins: of so many things.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, where they will take video game characters and they'll say if this character is arousing to look at or beautiful to look at, then it must be evil and we must subvert it.

Whereas we need to create Yeah, or

Simone Collins: we they will literally use attractive people as like, That's how you know they're

Malcolm Collins: fascists. Absolutely. And he thinks more broadly that what a lot of people consider virtue or morality [00:54:00] is just a system for affirming weakness. And he focused a lot on this concept of being life denying.

Or life affirming as a value system, which again I guess I'd say rhymes a lot with a lot of like manosphere philosophies or even our philosophy if you look at our video of life levels of I think it might be the video on the age of vitality or vitalism, vitalist based systems, now here i'll note that you might now say

well, if all of this is the case, then how does Nietzsche define good? Right, like, if he's saying that weakness causes people to act in negative ways, how is he, like, measuring these individual actions as negative? And I'll read a basic explanation of how he defines what's good and what's bad, and this might surprise you as well, Simone.

So, he, Niche defines quote unquote good primarily in terms of what promotes human flourishing and the realization of human greatness, particularly for those ki [00:55:00] He considers quote unquote higher types or quote unquote noble. He rejects traditional moralities, universal prescriptions, in favor of a more individualistic and life affirming approach.

Power in strings, Nietzsche associates goodness with everything that heightens the feeling of power in man, the will to power and power itself, life affirmation. He values actions and attitudes that affirm life, embrace struggle, and promote vitality rather than those that deny or diminish life. Human excellence.

Nietzsche prioritizes the cultivation of exceptional individuals and their unique virtues over universal moral norms. Creativity and self overcoming. He emphasizes the importance of creating new values and constantly striving to surpass oneself. Metrics for evaluation. Life promotion. Nietzsche asks whether moral decisions are quote unquote life promoting, life preserving, species preserving, you.

Perhaps even species cultivating. Now you can see how much this aligns with a lot of our philosophy. [00:56:00] Flourishing of higher types. He judges moral systems by their capacity to facilitate the development of exceptional individuals. Perspectivism. Nietzsche advocates for recognizing the validity of different moral perspectives.

was in their cultural context, rather than adhering to universal standards. So again, pluralism. Nietzsche argued for pluralism. It's

Simone Collins: just so unexpectedly pronatalist, optimistic, and vitalistic, when I'm used to being presented, Nietzsche, as this very Depressing, dark, black pilled guy. This

Malcolm Collins: is weird. Well, and I think that what we're seeing here is why, like, and then finally here, overcoming resentment.

He values moral systems that avoid the resentment and reactive attitudes he associates with slave morality. By rejecting traditional morality's universal claims, Focus on altruism niche aims to create a space that is more nuanced individualistic and life affirming in its approach to ethics That promotes human greatness and cultural [00:57:00] flourishing So you can see from this a lot of this aligns with our value system Not all of it and we're going to get into just a second why not all of it does but When you hear this, I bet you're thinking this is not the niche.

I was told existed Why wasn't I told that this is what niche was actually about?

Simone Collins: Nietzsche

Malcolm Collins: whatever I don't care what his real name is. It's not a real language. There's English and then there's everything else. I don't want to sell you my words by drinking sewer water, okay? And again, this is what we're talking about when we're talking about cultural competition.

Having a degree of humor in your cultural pride, humor in your patriotism, can be great in terms of causing other people to lean into their cultural pride and patriotism. Yes, yes, yes. But I think that the urban monoculture fundamentally hid from people what this philosophy was because they knew It would seem so.

He basically called out wokeism before wokeism came to exist.

Simone Collins: Yeah, and this is pretty [00:58:00] mind blowing for me. Thank you for calling me on this.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, I think that the Yeah, he's like, oh, yeah, so in the future this group of people is going to use sympathy as a weapon They're going to use it to they're going to begin to have contempt for everyone who's successful everyone who's thriving They're going to try to spread this morality.

They're going to try to diminish these people's capacity for exceptionalism he could be seen as very like it's interesting if you if you go over what niche thought It is very I'd say predictive and almost prophetic of woke culture and the evils of woke culture and how woke culture acts and hurts people.

The evils of the culture that creates basically roaming populations of homeless people who just get shipped between cities as soon as any city receives sanity. And then another city is like, Oh, we'll be the good guys now. And it is fundamentally evil. And it is something that fundamentally we must fight against, but fortunately, [00:59:00] it is also self extinguishing.

The slave morality that Nietzsche talks about, I think, spiraled out of control within recent ages, and is now the dominant cultural group in our society. Not in the way it was during the Christian period but in an even more true way, where in the Christian period, I think people were twisting scripture to get slave morality, where now I think slave morality is being worshipped in and of itself.

Any thoughts before I go into how we differentiate from Nietzsche, Simone?

Simone Collins: No, I mean, you just basically summed it up, but that's still fascinating.

Malcolm Collins: As to how we differentiate from Nietzsche which I think is very interesting. From our perspective, which could be seen as very in line with CJ, We deride, like Nazis, for the same reason we deride the BLM movement. Which is to say Nazis say, we are not thriving, we didn't win the war, because of this other cultural group that's making more money than us, it's Doing better academically than us.

It's in higher paid professions than us, the [01:00:00] Jews. A lot of people think they didn't like the Jews because they thought the Jews were like dirty or something. They, they use that in some of their advertisements, but that wasn't the same way wokes will call like white people disgusting. Most of the stuff on the Jews that the Nazi complained, complained that they out earned Germans, that they were taking money from Germans, that they had quote unquote privilege over Germans.

If you translated it to modern words, there's a reason you're not being told this, but that was fundamentally the way the ideology worked. And that was why I deride that ideology so much in, but for the same reason that was like BLM where they're like, oh, black culture isn't doing well because white culture, white culture is cheating.

White culture is victimizing us. And I'm like, it's not. And they're like, no, look at all these systemic. And I'm like, well, there's everything was taken from us when we were slaves. And I was like, well, everything was taken from the Japanese much more recently. When they were put in the, concentration camps and they bounced back pretty well.

I have a lot of Jewish friends,

Simone Collins: internment camps, but yeah,

Malcolm Collins: whatever. A lot of friends of mine, families went through the Holocaust and they lost everything. And the Nazis took everything from them and they moved to the U S and now they're all in

Simone Collins: Michigan.

Malcolm Collins: Explain that, you know, [01:01:00] it's cultural differences when you can accept.

that you need to learn from other cultures, you can improve quickly when you believe in a past. And this is, I think, a danger for black culture right now that it's facing is the Wakandanization of ancient Africanism. Which is to say that they can just go back to some ancient way of being African and they'll be able to outcompete everyone instead of needing to come.

Wakanda's not. Ancient? It's super high tech. That's what makes it so cool. No, but it is based on the belief, which has become quite common within some black communities, that they used to be this super powerful advanced civilization, and that by going back to that, they can achieve greatness again. And I look at the We Was Kings movements the same way.

That I look at modern anti Semites or Nazis more broadly. It is a glorification of a past that never happened.

Simone Collins: Right, because our, our key philosophy is, is you don't go back. You push forward, taking what was best. Well, no,

Malcolm Collins: our, our biggest key [01:02:00] philosophy is the biggest deception you could ever have as a deception against yourself.

A belief that you are strong where you are weak. That you are succeeding where you are failing. But, how are we different from Nietzsche? The core failure of Nietzsche's philosophy, this isn't that big a failure, but it is a core differentiation we have.

Is he saw individuals as being made up of like sort of competing urges or components? That fought against each other and while I think this exists to an extent I think that the core unit of identity when we're looking at society is not the individual but it's the intergenerational family unit And then the clan and then the individual if i'm sort of ranking the importance of these individual things when i'm looking at the individual above the individual Is me in this exact moment of time, or me as I exist as a combination of my genetics and the memeplexes which are living on top of those genetics.

But me as an individual is just not [01:03:00] particularly important. And I think a lot of our philosophy could be seen as, now I'd never read Nietzsche before so I didn't know that any of these were Ideas that rhymed with his ideas of taking some ideas that rhyme with his ideas and applying them at the cultural level Instead of applying them at the individual level.

I

Simone Collins: mean What didn't you say that there are some competing urges within every human with at least every human who tries to rise above their base? humanity Like there's the part of you that just wants to eat and be lazy and lie back and not work because we're designed to conserve energy and, and maximize intake of calories and reproduce, but then there's also our prefrontal cortex and this ability to rise above and reason and engage with logic and think about things bigger than just our basic urges.

I think that's a fundamental internal struggle that anyone who even sees themselves as part of a larger chain has to overcome every single day. Don't you?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, [01:04:00] I agree with that. I mean, we, we often talk about as a four footed beast, which is caged with you have your human side and your animal side and they're both in a cage and you need to feed your animal side just enough meat to keep it from getting strong or it will attack and kill you.

It will dominate you, but if you feed it nothing, it goes rabbit and attacks you. Or you end up spending all your time mollifying it and petting it and being like it's okay, buddy I know, you know, we haven't seen porn in a year, but You don't need to freak out when you see an attractive woman

Speaker 15: Colonel,

Speaker 17: these men have taken a supreme vow of

Speaker 15: celibacy. Like their fathers and their fathers before them. I haven't seen a woman in decades.

Speaker 17: Miss Huddleston.

You say your war is over. Oh, my. Wherever you go, it will. You take the pain with you.

I know you were hurt when that woman left. But you're just using that to hide from who you really are.

Malcolm Collins: . But Yeah, I think that that we see that. But I take that not from [01:05:00] Nietzsche. I take that from Wynwood Reed, where he talks about these concepts. And I think that also our concept of civilization, which is to say civilization or a civilized individual is someone who's better able to suppress these pre evolved needs and ideas for and and humanity more broadly, where you argued to me and I have adopted this view is that the human is the part of ourselves that we choose instead of the part of ourselves that we are born with.

And that people who are more human are the people who are better able to suppress their pre born instincts, their animal side. Would you agree with that?

Simone Collins: Sorry. I'm trying to find like moments when I could talk when she's not winching. I have a call in six minutes just as a note.

Malcolm Collins: Great. Well then we use our time wisely today. And I really appreciate you Simone. I it's so Cool to be potentially contributing to the philosophical canon of human civilization But be able to do so Was not living a shitty life like Nietzsche.

Nietzsche did

Simone Collins: The amount of luxury that we enjoy [01:06:00] is humbling every single day. I mean, I'm just Humble the weave hot water. It is amazing running water running water and hot water. Holy crap And drink drink a potable water that we can just drink the water that we get in our faucets There are so many things that blow my mind every single day.

And yeah that we get to it also that The average person in a developed country now who has access to an internet connection and a phone can engage with the world's leading philosophers. I mean, this used to be something where only the wealthiest and the most connected would have the shot at going to some university where some major philosopher was pontificating in some large venue and you wouldn't really necessarily get to know them or have a lot of exposure to their ideas.

And now people can just. Go on YouTube and listen to it or like follow this person on sub stack. And it's, I love that we live in this age and I love how democratized these great ideas are. And to your point, now I'm coming away from this conversation, very grateful for the fact that while Nietzsche lived at a time where he thought [01:07:00] that Ubermunch, the Ubermunch was like a theoretical figure, that now pretty much everyone has the tools to become an Ubermunch.

And that there are a decent number of these people and that they are significantly changing the trajectory of humanity at a time where we would argue, this is one of those. inflection points in the entire history of humankind and intelligence in general that is really crucial and some, some decisions made by a small handful of people who choose to participate in the game.

And this is not about who has the most money or the most IQ or the highest IQ that is. It is about those who choose to show up and play this game. They're going to change the course of human history.

Malcolm Collins: Interesting thing is to tell Nietzsche that we would eventually enter a time of such opulence of, of, of, of such abundance that because pleasure was so everywhere for people [01:08:00] that the only humans who are able to survive, the only humans who are able to make it through this crucible.

Are the ones who tended towards the ubermensch

Simone Collins: that is

Malcolm Collins: fundamentally what our philosophy of the garden of the lotus eaters is

Simone Collins: to

Malcolm Collins: say that only those who can master their own values and masters themselves are going to exist in the future. We are, we are at a civilizational bottleneck where only the ubermensch survive.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it's exciting. It's exciting. It's scary, but it gives me a lot of hope. And I love the fact that so many people have a shot at really mattering now and it doesn't come down to where you went to school or who, you know, or how wealthy you are, whatever like that, that wasn't the past. And I mean, I think Nietzsche did come from a position of having enough money in his family and having enough family to support, to, to a certain extent to be someone who had these ideas.

Now, this is something that's a lot more democratized. So that's cool. Thank you. This [01:09:00] is a really interesting conversation. I didn't think it would be because we've talked about this so much and we're like, I don't know, this seems like a straightforward situation, but there's,

Malcolm Collins: There is. And I was surprised because I had always sort of looked down on each day's work as being like try hard.

I sort of thought of it as like, well, maybe it's because so

Simone Collins: many try hard people started talking about it and then you start to associate it. With that, and I think here's the problem. Here's what may have completely broken his reputation is that a bunch of like incel bread pillar types started quoting his work way too much, not way too much, but like a lot.

And then all of those that the urban monoculture enemies of those people then basically started blackballing Nietzsche as a historical figure because he was this, this superhero to a particular class of human that they saw as subhuman and hateable and, and anything that they liked and respected had to be bad.

The

Malcolm Collins: concept aesthetically aligns with some Nazi ideals when people hear it because they [01:10:00] don't know what it means. They don't know what it means. People who choose not to. Well yeah, it's a, it's

Simone Collins: a German word and it implies some level of superiority. It must be evil.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, and he was around during the Nazis, and I've heard that some of his books were edited by somebody who had Nazi sympathies after he died, because he sort of became famous after he died.

Was

Simone Collins: he, was he pre Nazi? I don't know the exact timeline. My understanding

Malcolm Collins: is he was sort of when the Nazis were rising, and his, like, sister or cousin or something edited a lot of his works to include some, like, anti Semitic ideals. When I think that, you know, realistically, if you're applying his ideals, they'd be incredibly pro Jewish, because Yeah.

Which is but I, but I think that if, if you look at our ideals, I guess I'd say that our ideals are significantly closer to the ideals of somebody like Nietzsche than they are to your classic modern, you know, Anti Semite are racist or anything like that, but they don't align completely with them.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Well, which is fair because we live with a lot of additional information. And what am I having

Malcolm Collins: for dinner tonight before your call, by the way?

Simone Collins: So I'm kind of experimenting a [01:11:00] little bit with something from the freezer. And if it doesn't work out, I'm going to have backup. What are you

Malcolm Collins: experimenting with spit it

Simone Collins: out.

Your, your karai spiced chicken. I'm going to try baking and air frying different versions of it. Okay. Maybe with an egg wash to, to, to see if we can revive it. Because you don't want to deep fry it anymore. You're concerned about the carcinogenic elements of the oil. So I'm going to try two different elements of baking it simultaneously tonight.

And if neither of them ends up working out, then you're going to have grilled cheese sandwiches. Where's the

Malcolm Collins: Karai spiced

Simone Collins: chicken? It was in the deep freezer and we need to use it or get rid of it. So, Oh, is it like deep

Malcolm Collins: frying?

Simone Collins: Yeah, you had pre prepared this for deep frying. You had created karaites. How would you deep fry it in a pan?

I don't want to deal with all the oil.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, well, we'll see how it works.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And if this doesn't work and you still think that it's worth reviving, there's a lot more of it. There's a ton of it because you made a will deep fry it then because I like the deep fried karaites. Okay, then yeah, then next time I will, I will [01:12:00] fill a large pan with it.

All right, do your call. You're late. Thanks. Bye.

Malcolm Collins: I really appreciate that, Simone. You did a great job.

Simone Collins: I hit order on Amazon. I am skilled.

Malcolm Collins: You acted with efficiency and urgency, which is what was required of you for this particular emergency, Simone. Make sure you're centered.

Simone Collins: No. Just no. What? There. Ah. No, not quite. Ah.

There you go. Thank you.

Malcolm Collins: These things matter. , we're trying to think of how we can

start this. Well, you

Simone Collins: mentioned the Star Trek clip. You have the clip from that anime. What is Star Trek? Oh, the Star Trek. Yes. I mean, there's so many, like there, this is one of those, I think it keeps recurring in memes. As a trolley problem and in media and in shows, because it's 1 of these problems that we're [01:13:00] fully aware of.

And we just don't like it. But also social mores, like tribal based. Intuitive evolutionary traits that we have like that intuition toward fairness means that we can't override logic without feeling an extreme pull like it's deeply unfair that this exists and we're evolved to not accept the reality.

But at the same time, we logically know that that is the reality. And I think that that tension makes this something that people keep bringing up and highlighting without ever, of course, coming to a clear conclusion. Unlike us, of course, we just know exactly what the heck that

Malcolm Collins: is. Okay. So I'll get started so we can jump right into it.

Go for it.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Speaker 18: It's Daddy the Bone Collector! Ahhh! You're [01:14:00] not going to hit me! BAM! BAM!

Hey! I got it! I'm gonna escape!

No! Toasty! Octavio's got me and he's gonna eat me! Oh, that looks like it hurt a lot, buddy. Are you okay? Are you okay?

Did you see what happened? What happened? Oh, his knee, uh, he hit my knee with his, uh, chin. Oh [01:15:00] God. And he hit his tongue, I think. Awww. Toast, do you want a hug? Hey, move. Of course it got hurt. Torsten, come here and get a hug, buddy.

Speaker 19: Come here, buddy. Come here.

Come here, my love. I got you.

In this video, we delve into the significant vibe shift in America following the recent election cycle. The discussion features commentary on social and political changes, including insights from various left-wing and right-wing streamers. The conversation highlights the reactions from diverse demographic groups, touching on topics like personal safety, reproductive rights, and the public's changing political affiliations. This video also explores the current state of mainstream media, the influence of social platforms like Blue Sky, and the overall public sentiment. Whether you're left-leaning, right-leaning, or somewhere in between, this video offers a comprehensive look at the evolving American political landscape.

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone, I'm excited to be talking to you today. Today we are going to be talking about the vibe shift in America post this election cycle. Some of my favorite streamers have been talking on this subject.

This has like been a reverberating subject in the online, right? Starting with an Asmongold video and then people commenting on the Asmogold video and then people commenting on people commenting on the Asmogold video. And I think it's because everyone knows it's true. And he was just the first to put a finger on it.

And I'll go into my experience of this. We'll go into some other people's experiences of this. But I want to hear from you, first, Simona, somebody who didn't even know that this is something that's being talked about. Because you've been watching, like, left wing streamers now. We need to talk about this.

Simone Collins: I love, oh my gosh, yeah, I can't even get into it.

I'm loving, I'm loving this. We

Malcolm Collins: will get into it, though. The one who thinks that she needs to, like, prep for war. It's insane. She expects people to come to her house and, like, drag

Simone Collins: her away. She's going to have her uterus removed. Like, actually.

Speaker 7: Okay, for those of us who have a uterus to contend with, I [00:01:00] personally plan to get mine fully yeeted before January 20th.

Not just sterilized, removed. I already knew that I didn't want kids because pregnancy would be a disaster for me medically, but this incoming administration is my cue to make that decision final. My answer to your body my choice is to entirely remove the part of my body they're trying to regulate. It is a rousing f**k you to any shitty man who voted for this.

Simone Collins: So, yeah. Oh my god, has she had kids yet? No, but she's married to, like, a really sweet dude,

Malcolm Collins: so it's kind of sad.

And the dude is, she's like, he's a first generation Indian immigrant. So they're going to come. He's not an illegal immigrant. Is he? No, they're not coming from him. You psycho. This isn't, she is preparing for her time in the camps, like getting her bug out bag ready and everything.

Speaker 7: I am a disabled, genderqueer, AFAB artist married to a first generation Indian American. So we'll be going over how we plan to protect ourselves and others from proposed mass deportation plans, how to remain safe in public if you're an [00:02:00] at risk demographic, steps you can take to prepare for crackdowns on reproductive freedoms, and how to build communities so that we can all lean on each other in times of need.

So even if you are an able bodied, cisgender, Cishetwhitemanwhosefamilyarrivedonthemayflower, this video will be useful to you too. We need as many people on the team as possible, and you do have a role to play. I also want to acknowledge that that these protections don't necessarily guarantee that you won't still be detained or that the person who's questioning you won't still resort to violence.

These are buffers, not shields, and I'm sorry for that.

Malcolm Collins: Well,

Simone Collins: but she's also arming herself.

So like, I, I appreciate the fact that she's like, get your firearms, get your concealed carry, go to the shooting range, know how to use your stethoscope. stuff. When you're not permitted to conceal, carry, like, and carry concealed, like have an actual weapon that you can use in an alternate. For example, I use a heavy bike chain.

Speaker 7: If you cannot or will not, Purchase a gun, still arm yourself to the teeth in every way you can, stash s all over your house, in your car, and on your person.

I have knives hidden all over my house, as well as a hammer in my car, and pepper gel in a homemade club stashed in my bag. Not every place you go [00:03:00] will allow weapons, so you need to build up some plausible deniability. That homemade club I mentioned? It's a heavy duty padlock tied to a scarf. When going through security, simply remove the padlock, from the scarf, and there you go.

You now have two completely harmless and totally unrelated items. Bag of coins and a sock, same concept. Just separate them when you're going through security.

Simone Collins: Like I'm, I'm liking, like, are we going to get, are we going to get like a leftist

Malcolm Collins: militants? Like we've had right.

Simone Collins: There are, I was going through the comments on her YouTube video and it was like, left wing prep were here. Like also make sure you know how to forage like they're out there. And it's funny because there's this like full circle where I'm like, you sound exactly like me.

But for some reason you think that, like, everything's gonna fall apart now, this is so weird. Whatever. I

Malcolm Collins: think they're coming, they're coming to your house. They are delusional in the extreme, and I think, like, actively dangerous.

Speaker 7: It's not perfect, but you can mess up somebody's knees pretty bad, and that makes escaping a much more viable option. You need element of surprise to make it work, though, so make sure you're fast.

It's not an effective enough weapon to be used as a deterrent, so the time between you revealing you have [00:04:00] it and it making contact should be as close to zero as you can manage.

Simone Collins: Well, no, no, no. I, I, my favorite part about her, I just have to gush. Cause I'm, I'm like in love.

Like she's amazing. Just from like, you know, I'm obsessed with weird subcultures. Like, you know, I had this like time where I went through all these weird Japanese subcultures and you just deep dive on them and you get obsessed. She is Just there's only really two videos of hers that are good for this, but she's an amazing view into this far left progressive subculture in the way that she deals the world.

She is late in life. She became deaf. So she knows sign language and most of her videos are teaching sign language and she has 1 video on how to sign. Various progressive terminology, like your, your, your gender and if you're poly and the, the amazing thing is there's this part of the video where she's like, well, in ASL, there are no pronouns, but I'm still going to walk you through how to introduce your pro.

It's

Malcolm Collins: the [00:05:00]

Simone Collins: best video.

Malcolm Collins: I heard it. This is like a big problem. They haven't like. I don't know, Finland or somewhere in Northern Europe where they don't naturally use pronouns. So what progressives in the country have done is use English pronouns, added them to their language just so they can force people to use the right pronoun.

Simone Collins: Yeah. That seems to be the same phenomenon here, but yeah, I, I loved it. And it was, it's actually like, aside from it being about culture wars or like left versus right, it's just really fascinating to see someone walk through like, here's the etiquette. In ASL of like how to introduce pronouns and how to explain to people that you're poly and here's what the language is and like the construction of the language and like also the etymology of the sign language, which she went over, like, well, you know, like, lesbian started out as this and part of it was like a sex joke, but then like, because deaf people often really center around church communities, like it evolved, like the language evolved this way.

And it's, it's fast, [00:06:00] like, it's a really good video. Like I'm, I'm super in and her project 20, 20, 20, sorry, her project 2025 prep video, which you first referred to where she's talking about just like, all right, the world's going off the edge. This is, it is one of the most fascinating views in this

Malcolm Collins: mindset, insanely boring.

She is, she is, she's gotten poor timing, she delivers information way too slowly. She, she could be way, way, way, way tighter. It could be way, way, way more interesting. She makes analogies that don't make any sense, even if you assume her world perspective. Yeah, she presented it as like

Simone Collins: We'll make like a Game of Thrones, a Game of Thrones analogy and then it like completely fell apart.

But No, just from like an anthropological perspective for Chan. No, an

Malcolm Collins: anthropological perspective, I, I like looking at her the same way I like looking at Chris Chan. You know, like Yeah, no, but like, so that has inherent worth. Chris Chan thinks he has a magical world that's all real. And [00:07:00] that's fascinating.

And she thinks that Wright is going to come and drag her from her house because she's gay. Like, this is, or fake gay, she's not real gay, she's dating a guy and she's a girl. No, now she's married.

Simone Collins: No, they're, they're happily married. No, gay

Malcolm Collins: in that way where she has identified herself as not a her, but like a they or something.

And so she's like definitionally gay and her husband's definitely, oh my God, I hate these self identified gay identities. I'd be so mad if I was like an actual gay person who fought for gay rights for so long. And now people like this can just be like, I identify as cisgender and now I'm queer. In fact, I'm more queer than you gay man.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx): Sorry, going over the video again, I realized, I assumed she was identifying as some form of gay by calling herself an a fab. But when I looked up, what a fab mint in. Progressive brain melt. Apparently it just means woman. , so like a normal woman. Sorry. I know you're not supposed to say normal, but yeah, it means a normal woman.

Malcolm Collins: Sorry. Let's get into this actual topic. I want to hear your thoughts on it. Okay. Has there been a vibe [00:08:00] shift?

Simone Collins: It's hard for me to say cause I'm not, I'm not as online as you are. I, I, I will say that there is some, there's not as much freaking out on the left as I expected. And I think a lot of that's because a lot of the people that. We're catering to that extremist view, didn't really hold those views themselves and thought their audience did.

And then after Trump won by a significant margin, they realized, oh, I don't have to front. For that so much like, the

Malcolm Collins: pressure is also a risk, a reputational risk to continue doing that because they just, a lot of them said that their side was going to win the election. They lost that prediction. And now all of these other insane views, which I bet they knew weren't going to happen.

They didn't really believe any of this stuff. They now have to walk those back because of, you know, they don't come and break down this girl's door and take her and her [00:09:00] boyfriend away for identifying as. Demi gender unicorns that she's going to be like, Hey, they were all lying to me. So there's that aspect, but I'd say as a online person, very online, I've noticed a giant vibe shift, a vibe shift online and in person interactions.

Simone Collins: Okay. What's going on? Break it down for us. Offline nerds, apparently.

Malcolm Collins: Offline nerds are people who just don't interact with other people that much, I guess. Yeah. So, the first is, is, it's like this weird, like, big coming out day for a lot of people, where a lot of people who I thought of as left leaning or centrist seem to be quite happy that Trump won, and are sort of coming out and being like, like, Yeah, I wanted this.

Some of them even don't seem to have realized because I've seen this in some interviews where they're like, I thought I was ambivalent to who won, but when Trump won [00:10:00] and looked like he was winning, I got really excited. And then I realized I haven't been ambivalent at all. I've wanted Trump to win for a long time.

And I think that's another thing that has happened within this community. Is a lot of people weren't sure right up until the end. They thought that they were you know, swallowing their pride. And I think even in the first Trump election cycle, that was an election cycle that I feel that Hillary lost.

I think a huge part of the Trump vote came from people who despised Hillary. In the Biden election cycle, there were still a lot of these never Trumpers or tradition, transitioning never Trumpers around. And I saw this. I think what we have seen is a full transitioned of a portion of the U. S.

population into enthusiastic Trump voters. And we'll go over the data on this. And not just enthusiastic Trump voters, but enthusiastic Republicans. in a way that I don't think that there have been this degree [00:11:00] of enthusiasm before. So I think that we're seeing two things. One is there's a huge amount of euphoria on the right right now and not like, and the left didn't have this type of euphoria when they beat Trump last time.

They beat him with a candidate that they saw as an institutional compromise candidate.

Simone Collins: Yeah, the responsible choice. No one gets excited about making what they feel is the responsible choice. Trump, for everyone, was the fun choice. The treat yourself president, if you know what I mean.

Speaker 9: Treat yourself.

Speaker 10: Velvet slippies, cashmere socks, velvet pants, cashmere turtle. I'm a cashmere velvet candy cane. Treat yourself!

Speaker 11: I mean, this is insane.

Malcolm Collins: But yeah there was that, but then there was also the element of I think that the democratic machine, even as Biden was winning and one was still, well, climate change is going to kill us and they're not really doing anything about that. The right are still all a bunch of Nazis, [00:12:00] you know, the country is still descending into madness.

I'm still living with persecution every day. It was a bandaid for them. The enthusiastic. Trump contingent, which I think is the dominant contingent on the right. And the statistics do show that this is a case. Doesn't have a bleak view of America's future. They have an incredibly optimistic view of America's future.

And I think unbridled optimism, that to me has been the most shocking part of the vibe shift. But in addition to that, there's the second order thing, which is in the first Trump, when many people saw it as a referendum on stuff like pollsters, like pollsters got it wrong. They saw it as. A faction of extremist Americans who you know, they, they, they really saw as deplorables, like even, even among our communities you know, educated people, the people who now have moved to the Trump side, the people who now make up, you know, your JD Vance's and stuff like that.

There was [00:13:00] still a view of like, well, I don't really like either of these candidates. I may secretly vote for Trump, but I'm going to tell myself, I don't like him. I'm not going to be like openly enthusiastic about him.

That has transitioned.

The, the other thing that happened was that in this, this election, the referendum was not on Trump, but almost sort of seen as culture more broadly. So.

Simone Collins: Well, it's, I mean, I actually think Trump is a bigger part of this than you may give him credit for, but what I have heard from people is that they're not excited about the Republican Party.

They're excited about Make America Great Again. They're excited about the new right. Like, they're excited that, oh, wait, like. Conservatives aren't what I thought I were like. They were conservatives are fun. Like this is that this is the, this is literally a mandate and an administration that is all about fixing things.

And I think people are really except they're like, wait, could we actually have a simplified tax code? Could we actually have curtailed government spending? Like, this is exciting. Like, [00:14:00] like

Malcolm Collins: JFK, like over the FDA. And I think a lot of people, like a lot of the leftist. Who are just really like deep staters corporatists, bureaucrat type people, they respond to this like, oh, can you believe he said this?

Can you believe he said this? But I think anyone who is like a mainstream American who's watched this guy's videos, Or like, Oh, he wants to put like regulations on stuff that should have had like, you're like, Oh, this sounds great. Ready thing to do or what the Democrats told people they were about. And I think what people are realizing, and this has been one of the realizations, it's like the people who watch the JFK videos who know what JFK is really about.

They're like, Oh. The Republican Alliance includes things like granola moms now. I didn't fully understand that. I thought that was like a confused lady, not somebody who literally had all of her positions embodied and the person who's running the

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-1: The secretary of health and human services.

Speaker 12: This is what most Americans innocently put [00:15:00] into their bodies these days, and most alarmingly, into the bodies of their children we've grown now to accept chronic disease conditions as normal. But now, in 2024, we're finally waking up to this cataclysm and we're asking ourselves, how in the world did this happen?

A big part of it is our diet. Restaurants that serve contaminated food are fined or shut down. When it's the government that approves the poisons in our food, a few people get very, very rich, and the toxins end up in every supermarket aisle. Let me show you what I mean. Doritos, Cheez Its, Cap'n Crunch, Gummy Bears.

Everyone knows that these are junk foods, so maybe you wouldn't be too surprised to see that the ingredients include a lot of poisons, including a harmful yellow dye called tetrazine, or yellow dye number five today, it's made from petroleum, not coal tar. Either way, it's crazy to add this to your kid's favorite foods. It doesn't even change the flavor. This [00:16:00] yellow dye isn't just in junk food, it's in the foods that we consider healthy.

It's in everyday kids snacks like popcorn, mac and cheese, fruit snacks. It's in sports drinks like Gatorade and so called vitamin water. It's even added to chicken broth, to corn, to pickles, to mustard, and to yogurt. And so, of course, our kids get sick. And we lovingly feed them chewable vitamins which have, surprise, Tartrazine.

And so the cycle continues until the coughs and asthma kick in, at which point you go to pick up some cough serum. And yeah, you guessed it, Tartrazine. I've been picking on Tartrazine today, but that's just one of at least a hundred chemical poisons that our health agencies allow into our children's food. All eight of those crucial steps forward in our kids health were taken under President Trump. But the Democrats, who claim to be all about health care, have stood by watching other countries ban these poisons and make our kids sick, asthmatic, [00:17:00] hyperactive, and depressed.

They left them on every supermarket shelf in America. They even used your tax money to put them in your kids school lunch. So their big food and their big ag donors probably gave them all that golden handshake and the big money hug. And their big pharma donors probably called them up and thanked them also, because now they're gonna make billions selling Adderall, Prozac, and rescue inhalers.

Enough is enough. President Trump and I are gonna stop the mass poisoning of American children.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: So there's that but I think it's more like a okay So this year when you talk about things like the sweet baby inc controversy and gamergate 2 You had this series of like major flops of things coming out and nobody at all buying it Whether it was the woke concord or the woke dustborne or you can watch our videos on this stuff And just no audience for it or the woke star wars acolyte Nobody's watching this.

We have seen a shift To where if something has [00:18:00] any degree of wokeness in it, everyone stays away from it. And I think there was this, people have been beginning to, like, this needed to prime the pump before the Trump election for the vibe ship to happen. Because there were people at the top of a lot of companies and people in a lot of, Corporate positions who are like, it doesn't seem financially good for us to continue supporting these woke individuals like do we, maybe we should begin rolling back, you know, you begin to have people talk about maybe rolling some of this stuff back the break in the wall of this damn, like, Where, where the cracks in the water was spewing out was really big.

Like there were already, if this was a movie, there were already pieces of concrete, like shooting this way and that right before the election happened. But when the election happened and I almost am struggling to psychologically understand why this happened. And I think I have a chain of events that can explain it.

It's like. For a lot of people who sort of [00:19:00] felt this way but were unsure if they could commit to it in a public context, we're now like, I can say DEI is dumb as s**t. I can say that this is bad for our company. I can say we need to stop doing this stuff. I can say Trump isn't Hitler. I can say that The multiple of three riots were staged by a three letter organization and all of the evidence completely supports that at this point.

I can say that because we've had a lot more stuff come out since then, I can't talk about it in detail. Actually, I'd say the core reason why you, the audience if you still think that it was a genuine eye attempt It is because the evidence that proves it wasn't is so heavily censored. It is one of the most censored things we can talk about on this channel, which is why we don't talk about it.

It was like now, like all of the evidence is basically in, there is no doubt in my mind, one iota which is [00:20:00] shocking. That they got away for this for so long, but people who are like interested, engaged people now know, oh, we had a feds erection where the fed basically tried to take over the state government with the bureaucracy and succeeded in doing so.

And now it is the average citizen taking the part of the country back. The other thing I've noticed is I think where you have a. And this feels very much like come join the fun side for me. Like, Oh yes.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: People have been joining the right as you've seen more and more over this election cycle. And you see this in this thing, especially among young people's becoming every generation, the young vote moves further and further to the right for the last three election cycles.

You have this, Oh my God, they're actually really fun. Like their events aren't numerous. And I think that when this side won, Last time there was a group of lefties who are like, we are gonna like buckle down and we're going to be the rebellion and we're going to be fighting in [00:21:00] the background to make sure that, you know, the country stays, our democracy stays, everything like that.

And I think that there is a portion of the semi dedicated left that when the call to this happened this time around, they're just like, There isn't actually going to be people being dragged from their houses unless they're illegal immigrants. I should just go join the fun side Oh, it's no longer racist to be a Trump voter.

Oh, it's no longer homophobic to be a Trump voter. Like what? Why am I fighting this so hard?

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-4: And if the girl whose videos we used earlier in this video ends up watching this. This is what we would say to you.

There's room on the fun side for one more. No thanks. Look, I've been thinking. Maybe if you gave this place a chance, I don't know, you might even enjoy yourself. [00:22:00]

It's him. Who is it? It's the pizza man. Who the heck do you think it is? Yes? Can I help you? Can I come to the fun side?

Beg your pardon? You know, I've been kind of a jerk, Morty. I'm sorry.

Welcome to Casa Del Wild. Take a load off. Mi casa es su casa.

Very impressive. Hey, have a drink. It's on the house. This is seawater. Oh, you don't swallow it. Check this out. Wow, would

you look at that. It's like billions and billions of helicopters.

Malcolm Collins: And I think that there has been a shift in part of the community. That's just like, wait, I can be on the winning [00:23:00] side and it's fun and they'll accept me. Which is something that I think a lot of people didn't feel for a long time because the left in this country hasn't been accepting.

You can join it, you can signal your alliance, but they'll still chew you apart the moment that you show any degree of independent thought, as we see from like J. K. Rowling. J. K. Rowling is as far left as you can get on every single issue. She's a left icon, she's a core point of every leftist's life, and yet they turned on her just because she wouldn't say men or women.

Like, how do you, there is, there is no room for negotiation at all within their faction. You are a slave to the hierarchy or not.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-6: But I think that this also explains where the huge mental health problem on the left to comes from where the really huge problem with just absolute Dumor isn't because even when they win, they're still nothing to be hopeful about.

And your own side, no matter how high you Gries could [00:24:00] turn on you at any instance, why would you not have a constant state of severe anxiety and self hatred?

If you surround yourself with this level of toxicity?

Speaker 17: Hey, Dad, I'm calling from my history class. So, who was president when you were a kid?

Speaker 15: Oh, I don't know. I guess I think about killing myself pretty frequently. And why not? What's so great about a living? You know when I'm happy? For about five seconds in the morning when I first wake up. Before I remember who I am and what my life is all about.

Anxiety. Disappointment I don't, I don't know if there's an afterlife. But who cares? Nothingness couldn't be any worse than this meaningless march through my empty days.

Malcolm Collins: But the other thing I've noticed, which I think is really interesting, is, and I think that Blue Sky might have actually facilitated the vibe shift.

Simone Collins: Really? You mean just by removing themselves from most of the mainstream conversation?

Malcolm Collins: It's more than that. It's like they were all staying on Twitter until the election night. Like you had a million new year to the blue sky again, a [00:25:00] day, like for the seven days after the election night. And so the question is, is like, what's happening there? Why didn't they move to blue sky before this?

And I think it's because they believed. That they were still in control. They believed that the right was just being elevated on X because Elon was artificially elevating the right. Not because the right outnumbered them. Not because the right had more enthusiasm. Not because the right actually controlled the cultural zeitgeist.

And when the election happened, In the same way that when Rome fell and Byzantium, like the, the, the kingdom, you know, the Western Roman Empire sorry, the Eastern Roman Empire being run out of Byzantium, and so a lot of the elites in Rome fled with all of their gold and jewels and everything like that to live out the LARP of a still existing Roman Empire in this new camp, capital of Byzantium.

That is sort of what blue sky is. The urban monoculture [00:26:00] controlled online environment basically collapsed and any argument they could have even to themselves that they still controlled it collapsed. And so if they are going to LARP living in a world where they're still the dominant faction, they need to actively and aggressively.

Create the LARP for themselves. And I think that's what we're seeing with Blue Sky. It is a LARP of an earlier time. It is, to me, very, very analogous to the cargo cults of the trad people who are like, Oh, I'll dress like, you know, I, I, I see 1950s people dress in Hollywood movies and it will recreate the culture of that time.

They have this culture of like, 2017 Twitter that they're attempting to recreate through a LARP with the belief that through like some form of sympathetic magic This will be recreated in society if they can recreate the LARP that people will go to their community Even though they actively ban like half the people who try to [00:27:00] go

Simone Collins: That's what I'm what I also at least just getting from that one young lady is This video was this perception that now we have to build our own sub communities, our own little safe spaces, but like also literal safe spaces.

Like, one thing that she was talking about in her video, she was talking about was the importance of creating sort of offline safe communities of mutual support stockpiling abortion medication, but also stockpiling things like water filters, because she argued that many of these things were imported and that.

They wouldn't be able to get good water filtration in the future because everything's going to go crazy and they'll have to monitor food quality together because the FDA is not going to work anymore. Things like that. So maybe there's also this feeling that they're now just going to form break off societies and go off the grid because this new world is too hostile to them.

Malcolm Collins: No, I, we are lit to [00:28:00] releasing, you know, Ella DeGeneres left the country finally. Where did she go? I don't know, but they're, they're actually living this right now. And it's really interesting. We're for a long time. And in our redeemed zoomer podcasts, we talk about this. They. Worked to try to infiltrate and corrupt mainstream and conservative organizations.

So historically it would have been, let's see if we can corrupt X. Let's see if we can make X our little play pen. And now it's, Oh my God, retreat, retreat, retreat. We need to create our own bubbled spheres because this isn't working anymore. And I think across the board within many organizations, if you're in some big organization and you're like, can I push out the wokes?

Yeah. Now is the time to go on the offensive. You can now, okay. And it might be one of your only shots to do so, but the wokes are willing to retreat now and feeling the need to retreat. Now they are seeing the rate break. And they are looking [00:29:00] for, this is why you have people like, you know, Joe Scarborough from Morning Joe going to Mar a Lago to kiss the

Simone Collins: ring.

Malcolm Collins: This is why you see, no, we're seeing this across the board. The other big place where I think we've seen something really wild happen is in the perception of mainstream media. There is now a perception that the mainstream media, and it's weird, it was like on election day that this happened. And we've done a few videos on how few people read the news, how few people, but I think People, when, when contrasted with podcasts, it was like you know, whatever.

But I think now everyone's like, oh yeah, Joe Rogan won the election for Trump. Kamala may have had a shot. Had she gone on Joe Rogan they are now saying, oh, Joe Rogan matters more than Steve. CNN. Oh, Joe Rogan matters more than MSNBC. Oh, there's about three or four podcasts that probably matter more than these entire networks.

Yeah. I think

Simone Collins: the, the first thing that happened when Trump was elected in 2016 was a crisis of faith. That was then further [00:30:00] deepened and during the pandemic, when just there were so many flip flops on policy of how to stay safe masks, not masks, vaccinate, whatever. And then there's some, I'm trying to figure out exactly what it was that shifted with this latest 1, but I think what it was, was that indeed, like, basically, at this point, we all collectively realize that functionally speaking.

for listening. The audiences are no longer reading the New York Times. They're no longer watching CNN or MSNBC. They are distributed among a series of podcasts and YouTube channels and sub stacks. And that is where reality is being shared. And I think that is the fragmentation of reality. There's no longer this, like the media, like the BBC declares this reality.

So we no longer, we we've entered an age of split reality, which I think is kind of [00:31:00] scary because it's going to be harder for people. To, to interact on like a shared foundation, you know, people are going to come in and have lunch and, you know, even friends who went to the same high school, you know, who knew each other for a huge portion of their lives are going to see each other.

And 1 is going to assume that, well, everyone understands that like. You know, red dye 40 is going to kill you or like seed oils are bad and the other person is going to be like, what are you talking about? You know, like, I've never heard of this. So people are just going to have these very different priors and foundational beliefs.

And I don't know how we're going to navigate that as a country.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I'm gonna go over some statistics and anecdotes that I found pretty interesting. This is from a Fortune piece talking about the vibe shift, and I thought it was pretty interesting. She said, At an event over the summer where I knew the vast majority of attendees to be socially and politically progressive, a woman pulled me aside and told me she needed to talk to me about something.

Slightly concerned, I asked what it was [00:32:00] regarding.

Simone Collins: Trump,

Malcolm Collins: she said. Oh God, I thought, has she been offended by one of my columns? She then uttered six words that have been ringing in my ears ever since. The thing is, I love him. This woman, who considers herself staunchly to the left on the political spectrum, went on to tell me what it was about Donald Trump that she found so compelling.

His quote unquote punk, her words, outsider status, his funniness, the fact that he's unafraid to say what he feels, his anti war, anti establishment. Stances. And it's true. Like this is people find that very appealing to break from the narrative. You'd be like, he is so

Simone Collins: punk when he was, he started out on the left and there's a bunch of people in the new Trump administration who are from the left.

Yeah, Tulsi Gabbard

Malcolm Collins: RFA, like this is a truly inter party alliance.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah, so it shouldn't, it should not be surprising to anyone that a lot of people who [00:33:00] are currently identify as leftists are excited about the new administration. And it is disappointing to me that already does just seem still is like something that Democrats need to oppose when really we, 1, we all need it.

We need it desperately. And 2, Like, this supports many of the left's values, but this should not be partisan in the first place.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and, and so here is an interesting, some interesting statistics here. This time around, only 48 percent viewed Trump unfavorably compared to 50 percent for Harris. His favorability ratings, meanwhile, rose from 36 percent when he won in 2016 to 50 percent this time around.

So he went from a 36 percent favorability rating to a 50 percent favorability rating. 50 percent of Americans view Trump favorably.

Simone Collins: That's pretty

Malcolm Collins: amazing. That is wild. Yeah. Republicans surged from just 10 percent before the election to 35 percent afterwards. [00:34:00] The proportion of Republicans feeling hopeful rose significantly, with 76 percent expressing hope about the state of the nation, compared to only 29 percent of Democrats.

Democrats, in stark contrast, the Democrat sentiment declined before the election. 38 percent of Democrats felt satisfied with the state of affairs. This dropped to 24 percent post election. Feelings of fear and anger have increased among Democrats, with 73 percent now expressing fear about the country's direction, and over half feeling angry.

, I think this is what we see, which is the, the vibe shift has been one of, Oh, the online environment may be at the executive level controlled by ultra wokesters, but that's only because they were afraid. And in our video about how corporate America went woke, we're like, honestly, I think it's because there are a bunch of conformists who buckle at fear of being canceled or fear of pushback.

And I think after an entire year of embarrassing Let's just say successful right [00:35:00] cancellations of things like the acolyte of things like Concord of things like the executive class of these companies is like, I don't want to be embarrassed like this anymore. They are coming for us and doing it successfully.

And I'd also note here that there has not been a successful. Right wing cancellation and about since Elon purchased X. And we've noted this before, but it's really important to know that there is not another platform that is suitable for cancellations. And with the wokes moving to blue sky, it gets even harder for them.

Their advantage was being able to create the perception among people who weren't ultra wokesters that the ultra woke opinion was the mainstream opinion. And that is what having all these blue skiers on x allowed them to do the normies aren't leaving x It's the wokesters that are leaving x and so now the wokesters can't influence the normie opinion of what is normative in the way that they did historically And as such the perception of what is normal [00:36:00] and by the way Just so people understand this like when we did the numbers on this you had for x it was something like x 257 million daily active users on blue sky, even with all of their rise.

It's like 3 million and, and that's up from 1 million just like two weeks ago. Which seems to be a temporary boost due to the election.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-2: You might be thinking here, wait, blue sky has less than 1%. The daily active users as X on a normal day.

, and even with the boost from the election cycle, it still only hovers at around 1% of the daily active users. Why is everyone saying it's growing so much? I could have sworn I saw numbers that were bigger than that.

And the trick that all those articles are using is they are comparing the daily active or monthly active viewer users on X to the total accounts on blue sky, which is a very different thing.

Malcolm Collins: So they are completely isolating the community that used to AstroTurf these messages. To the extent where people who used to hang out on Twitter a lot go to Blue Sky and they go, Oh, I [00:37:00] recognized all of these people as former famous people on Twitter from before from like x many years ago when the culture wars were happening.

And because, and people are like, what do you mean you can't cancel people on other platforms? What are the, can you cancel on someone on Facebook? No. Can you, can you cancel someone on Instagram? Not really the only other

Simone Collins: platforms have moved in a direction of they're not being a centralized discourse.

Whereas Twitter more still has UX design that's oriented around that. Everything else is highly siloed. Like you're in your own little tiny community. Everything's sort of user based. So I think

Malcolm Collins: now people finally realize we've had so many cancellates over the past year and they've just, You know, Dennis, Dennis Nugent's that from Jurassic Park, which nobody cares like especially with the Guardian.

Oh, by the way, and we now know why the Guardian left Twitter and some people were like, Oh, this is a sign that Elon is anti free speech. So what Elon did is he made it so that any post that has a link on it is deprioritized in the algorithm which [00:38:00] really hurts news sites because news sites use that as like their bread and butter with their Twitter account.

And some people are like, Oh, this, how is this a bad thing? If new sites are predominantly a disinformation campaign and Twitter notes is working really well. If you just post the information in a tweet and it is working spectacularly well. So much so that people like, how can you say Twitter notes is working?

Well, it even fact checks Elon. And I'm like, that's how, you know, it's working. Well, when the, when the king was no clothes and somebody's walking around with a sign, So everyone knows that's when you know the kingdom's working well. So the, that explains

Simone Collins: a lot. I would say people are still kind of being canceled, but it's more like only self cancellation is possible.

So all the coverage that I see now of like people face planting is because they've handled their own comms. Really poorly, or they've done something really shitty.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, but I've seen this on two [00:39:00] occasions. They were both the right cancelling the left. And it was on YouTube. Or the left cancelling the left.

You know, there's

Simone Collins: some prominent scenarios recently of celebrities kind of cancelling themselves. I mean, Mr. Beast kind of cancels himself. Ariana Grande is kind of cancelling herself right now. They're But these What's that one who was in Gossip Girl? The

Malcolm Collins: Mr. Beast cancellation took place on YouTube and required the YouTube algorithm to work.

And it's very different from the old type of cancellation. Two other good examples of cancellations that happened this way was the In Praise of Shadows cancellation, where he tried to cancel somebody who he Wendigoon, who he saw as right leaning but was very centrist. With a bunch of spurious accusations that were just like insane lefty nonsense.

And then the other cancellation was Illumina Hottie Illumina Hottie has had her career completely dusted. But both, I think maybe these,

Simone Collins: I just don't think either pencil, I mean, also like Katy Perry, but these are people who just have, she released a couple of [00:40:00] bombs of songs, like just have, it hasn't been great with public appearances and, and

Feminist coded material that was really not feminist and people weren't having it and it was Just not great. But again, it's just like people not really handling the debut of something Well, like also the and I can't remember any but like the this actress who? Was in this movie about abuse essentially was she'd like flubbed the promotion of it saying like, wear your florals, bring your girls.

And she like, wasn't taking it seriously that this is a movie about breaking the cycle of abuse. She, she face planted, but like, I think that's not cancellation anymore. That's just like, That's a poor release of yourself. I'm pushing

Malcolm Collins: back on you. There have been successful cancellations. The two events that I mentioned, and I'll say three.

Simone Collins: Yeah, those, yeah, those, well, I don't know. But were, were they just people behaving dumbly and getting No, they were

Malcolm Collins: cancellations. It was a media cycle, a social media cycle, that [00:41:00] if the social media cycle had not have been the end. Their careers would be intact. They would still have followers. They would still have online platforms.

They would still have a job. They would still have a future in their industry of choice. So do you

Simone Collins: find cancellation is like basically a social media cycle? Like a wave of content about that person being

Malcolm Collins: Yes, but more than that, it is a, an event that prevents an individual from working any longer within a particular field due to a social media cycle.

But these cancellations function very different from the Twitter cancellations, the Twitter cancellations were people engaging with them because they wanted to hurt other people. When you look at the cancellation of Illumina hotty, or you look at the cancellation of In Praise of Shadows or even Mr.

Beast. People were watching the videos about the cancellations because they enjoyed watching bad people's lives be destroyed. I did not algo promote the Illumahati videos or the In Praise of Shadow videos [00:42:00] because I wanted Because I was like trying to elevate and help these people be canceled.

Like on Twitter, it was like, Oh, we got a signal boost this to ensure this person loses their job. Whereas in these instances, the individual is being canceled in every single one of the instances was an influencer. And it was the, the influencer cycle that reacted against them and blew back against them.

Simone Collins: Okay, so it's different when they're a star because it's not people eating their own?

Malcolm Collins: No, it's, it's different because it's part of the social media content cycle and the thing that's leading to the promotion. The reason why In praise of shadows, life being destroyed ended up trending on YouTube, ended up being in a cycle of really well performing videos is because it was very satisfying to watch.

Okay. When you had something like dongle gate, do you remember [00:43:00] dongle gate when like two men at like a conference? Oh my gosh. Yes. It was like super innocuous.

Simone Collins: Yes. Yeah. Two guys sitting in the audience of like a talk at a conference said something about dongles.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they were in the audience.

Somebody overheard them and decided to ruin their lives, get them fired for their jobs, etc. The problem being that, that this wasn't entertaining to watch. Anyone who's like a sane person is like, these are two basically random people having their life destroyed for nothing. Yeah, well, then I think, so we

Simone Collins: have to differentiate between like, so that, that form of cancellation, I think is more like, The original Red Scare, you know, where people were sort of like flagged as communists, whether or not they were public figures.

Malcolm Collins: The reason why dongle gate works, the reason why some of the original gamer gate nonsense worked. And I'm talking about like the anti gamer gate nonsense was that people was in their social communities thought they could earn points by attacking basically innocent people. They, when they were contributing to the cancellation, when they were posting this stuff on X, they were [00:44:00] posting it.

With the hope of it raising their own status, it wasn't like people watching something or engaging it because they enjoyed watching somebody's life be destroyed because they're a terrible human. It was them engaging. Was it because they thought it would increase their own status was in this leftist hierarchy.

It's a completely different mechanism of action.

Simone Collins: Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Cause in one it's just people gossiping and then in the other it's people like pulling others down in the hierarchy because they view it as a zero sum game and they're fighting their way to the top. Yeah. Like crabs in a bucket.

Okay.

Yeah. All right.

Malcolm Collins: I getcha. All right. Love you, Simone. Fun to talk about the vibe shift during this particular conversational loop. I've noticed it very severely in my daily life. It's been pretty interesting. It feels incredibly refreshing. I think one of the most important things to remember with the vibe ship is we can not make the mistake that the left made.

[00:45:00] The core reason the leftist agenda fell is because they One made up fabrications about what the other side was doing and did not punish people for spreading them like the thing that we talked about earlier in this. Two, they had a woke faction that was attempting to impose their cultural value system on others.

And people didn't stomp that down. On the left, the left needed to end that because the right, I'm not genuinely going to try that stuff because it's just such good ammunition for us. The woke insanity helps our cause. We don't need to police that. When somebody on the right goes around and says your body, my choice, the right needs to be saying that person's a ridiculous buffoon and doesn't represent us.

And the right has done that very successfully in a way that the left didn't. We just need to not become complacent with this stuff.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-3: Note here. I'm not talking about the originator of the phrase who clearly meant it as a joke. I am talking about the [00:46:00] fans of his, who used it to harass women in public spaces.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-5: And this is what we saw on the left, in the left, when you would have these ridiculous protests and stuff like that, that were the ultra far people that were really just doing this to attempt to hurt other people. When you would have people banned from platforms for silly reasons, it ended up hurting their livelihood. They would never attack their mal actors.

They would never say, oh, you ultra walkies. You need to reign it in because if they did, then they'd be the next target, the right doesn't have that problem. And it's important that we don't develop it, or we will lose this position of cultural hegemony really quickly.

Simone Collins: I agree, that's very reasonable.

Malcolm Collins: Alright, love you Simone, have a good day.

Simone Collins: I love you too,

Gorgeous.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah. She's

decided that she's going to talk a lot

now.

Speaker: Whoa! It's a dancin dancin yellow sneaker [00:47:00] creeper!

Speaker 2: Can I see the video of this? Dad? I wanna see the video of this.

Simone Collins: I was, by the way, by

Malcolm Collins: the way, for, you know, horrifying gossip, Simone,

Simone Collins: you know, I love that.

Malcolm Collins: Did you do that? Christian got a girl pregnant.

Simone Collins: That means that a girl opened her legs to him. That's on her.

Malcolm Collins: A girl in Finland flew him out to meet him and they're dating now.

Simone Collins: Well, then I wish them great happiness. I'm extremely pissed at him for ruining striped sweaters. So f**k him. Very angry. Here's

Malcolm Collins: another, here's another crazy. Oh no, I was gonna tell you the food.

Yeah. That's not going to be ready for another day.

Simone Collins: Yeah. All right. So then

Malcolm Collins: we're doing slow cooked rendang beef with what is it? Corn butternut

Simone Collins: squash. chopped onion and lots of coconut

Malcolm Collins: milk. Yep. [00:48:00] Yeah, and we're going to get a slurry out of it that I can then use and reheat on many, many days because you are cooking a lot this time.

This might be the biggest one we've ever cooked.

Simone Collins: Yeah, the pot almost overfilled. That's okay. It's just going to take a while.

Malcolm Collins: I reset it by the way. It was going to end in 20 minutes.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, it only does 20 hour cycles. So we have to, and

Malcolm Collins: then we yeah. Why haven't it made for longer cycles? And did they not expect families to cook food for like four days?

Simone Collins: Apparently not.

Malcolm Collins: Is that something other people do? Maybe they're the food safety issue. Why a lot of people don't do it.

Simone Collins: Probably, but let's not ask. I don't know. I'm really like getting on board with this whole, like being chill about food thing. I was. Talking with this woman at Toureticon about her, her food and she does like fermented foods and sourdough starters and she's talking about her sourdough starter and I'm like, how can you travel so much?

Like people act like it's a pet. Like you have to feed it. And she's like, I don't know. Like, if it gets crusty, I just scrape off the top and it's fine. [00:49:00] And it's been like going for years. And so, okay, like, Maybe we can all just relax a little bit about food. I mean, not, not, I mean, I like the cautionary tales that you share with us about food poisoning that actually kills people, but that just seems to be rice and pasta.

So

Malcolm Collins: just

Simone Collins: the silent killer

Malcolm Collins: rice and pasta.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Speaking of which, I need to get rid of the fried rice sitting in the fridge, but I was thinking this morning about something that made me think contextualize themselves, like their attractiveness. So I was thinking about how, like, every time I look in the mirror or I see myself on camera, I just cringe, which is why as soon as I make sure, like, you have your lighting set up, I switched to Instagram.

So I'm not looking at myself. And if I, I switched back, I have to like, kind of just try to look only at you. But I realized that no matter how like deformed or ugly you may technically be, you are [00:50:00] someone's type. Realizing that you are someone's type can make you feel kind of good about yourself.

Like

Malcolm Collins: if you're like, that's not true about everyone. Yeah. Christian just got someone pregnant. So yeah.

Simone Collins: I, I'm, I may find myself repulsive, but I'm your type and I should feel really good about that. And then there's this secondary knock on effect of that is once someone actually feels good about themselves.

And and realizes that they're super hot to someone, then they're confident and that confidence on its own, then like catches this whole other set of people and is very attractive and appealing, independent of your actual physical morphology. So, really, everyone should just recognize. If they're someone's type, own it, be comfortable in their own body, be comfortable with themselves, know that someone out there, like a subset of people is going to find them super hot anyway.

And that confidence will also make them super hot to like another 20 percent of all people. And so that is. Thanks. The approach [00:51:00] that should be taken to the way that one views oneself. And maybe if I can impart that on any of our self conscious teenagers, once we have them, I will be doing them a world of good because I grew up.

I mean, I think, I think there's also this thing where like, you are your own type, Malcolm. Like you've never walked by a mirror and not been like, wow, hello. But I look by a mirror and I'm like, oh, like

Malcolm Collins: what are the odds that the person that you are, their type is also that you're also gonna wanna like marry them or be with them.

You know, there's about, yeah, but

Simone Collins: my point though is that there are two types of people as well. One finds themselves attractive, and then the other, maybe there's an A group that finds themselves neutral and there's another group that find that finds themselves repulsive. But just because you find yourself repulsive doesn't mean that you are repulsive to everyone else.

And I think that's another you may not be your type. Yeah. And I'm, I'm not my type. You are your type, but I am not my type. And that is also interesting to me.

Malcolm Collins: I'd also point out that really high profile [00:52:00] people who generically are thought of as some of the hottest living women have said that they thought that you were incredibly attractive.

And

Simone Collins: so I am some people's type and that should make me feel good. Like I should be confident about my appearance because I know some people find me hot. Even if I think I'm repulsive, like I would not bang myself. But I would bang other people. I would bang you. And some people would bang me, including you, which is amazing.

So everyone should think about that. That should be their self care of the day.

Malcolm Collins: I think that you're being delusional because you're one of those women who actually is traditionally attractive, like trying to act like the internet

Simone Collins: says, I know the internet says I'm a four slash three depends on probably the angle being taken that insider photo.

So it's a three, but again, you think I'm a, it's so subjective. And that's, that's the thing I was telling you the other day, how like in Regency era England, supposedly, and you actually see this in the writing they describe a woman's countenance. Not like her [00:53:00] cheekbones or her facial symmetry. What's a countenance?

How expressive they were, like if they had very expressive faces. So, you know, there are some people who just like, don't seem to have facial expressions. Like they're not, they just kind of like have one, one face. And that's kind of always how they talk. And then there's other people who have like rubber faces that are like, just, and you see it, like, I think a lot of YouTubers have like very expressive faces and it's like all this huge range of like, I agree countenance is hot.

Yeah, and so but that's but that's the thing is like in regency because you'd think like well at least like western culture They all think that one thing is hot and then like eastern like maybe there's these group hotness There's

Malcolm Collins: a huge thing for ankles in men for like a long time. Like that was like a really oh, yeah

Simone Collins: Like well ankles

Malcolm Collins: were hot in men longer than abs were hot in men I

Simone Collins: have an intuition that that's a myth because I just haven't really come across it it in the literature.

However, count again, like there was this era in which facial expressions were the thing that was hot. Like they weren't looking at their like waist to hip ratio. They weren't, they were [00:54:00] looking at how expressive women were. , so that's interesting anyway.

Speaker 3: What are you? Are you a creeper?

Speaker 4: Oh no! Are you gonna get me?

Speaker 5: No!

Speaker 4: Blah!

Speaker 5: We got fight back! We got the tough guys! We got the strongest boys!

Speaker 13: Whoa! It's a dancin dancin yellow sneaker creeper!

Speaker 14: Can I see the video of this? Dad? I wanna see the video of this.

In this episode, we dive into the newly formed Department of Government and Efficiency led by Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, discussing their detailed plan to eradicate government waste. We cover shocking examples of taxpayer mismanagement such as the $28 million spent on ineffective camouflage for the Afghan army, $5 million on anti-smoking campaigns targeting hipsters, and $1.7 billion annually on maintaining empty buildings. The episode further explores potential savings through massive regulatory rescission, administrative reductions, and targeting unauthorized federal expenditures. If you're curious about how these actions could reshape the government's spending and operations, tune in for an in-depth analysis.

Join us as we delve into Blue Sky, a platform developed by Twitter as a semi-competitor to itself. We discuss its development, user base, and the psychological impact of social media bubbles. From discussing memes that reflect the migration of leftists from Twitter to Blue Sky, to the implications of AI data scraping, this episode covers a comprehensive breakdown of Blue Sky's current standing and future potential. Watch as we dive into the numbers, growth stats, and debate the real impact of this new platform on the social media landscape. Plus, enjoy some light-hearted personal anecdotes and reflections on the broader social implications of technology and digital interaction.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello simone. I'm excited to be here with you today today. We are going to be talking about the platform blue sky Which is a competitor ish to Twitter.

It was actually started by Twitter. We'll get into this in a second. Yeah, it was started and owned by the Twitter Corporation, but as like a not a nonprofit, it's like some weird type of like for whatever company to blue sky right now.

First I want to get into the fact that I love that leftists are fleeing from Twitter. I have seen some great memes about this. I want to start with one right here that uniquely grabbed me. And it is the personification of x thing.

What's wrong, user? You gonna cry? You gonna s**t your pants? And I'm like, you know what? I don't more people need this in their lives right now, right? A little bit. A

little bit. Bring back bullying, people. And then the user is Sadly walking away and X is like, Hey, where are you [00:01:00] going? Get back here. You pussy, but X is absolutely right about this.

These people

are pussies. And then he's hugging. Oh, sweet little blue sky. They're there. It'll be okay. Says blue sky. Chan. But here's the thing. I love this because it presents almost a horror aesthetic to me. And this is such a thing in horror where you have the obviously evil and sheltering mother who is hiding somebody from their potential, their ability to interact with the world

Simone Collins: and feeding off of them.

The Munchausen's my proxy mother. Typically, that's the trope.

Malcolm Collins: You know, you could see this as the mom from Waterboy,

Speaker: You going to

Malcolm Collins: Twitter?

Speaker: Ow! Sorry, Mama, I wanted to tell

Speaker 2: you. You off gallivanting with your fancy

Simone Collins: the right!

Speaker 2: Friends at

Malcolm Collins: Twitter

Speaker 2: while I'm sitting here all day with nobody to keep me company except

Malcolm Collins: blue sky

Speaker 3: The chickens are [00:02:00] coming home to roost, Bobby Boucher. You reap the fruit of your selfish ways. You gonna lose all your fancy

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-1: Elections

Speaker 3: , and you're gonna fail your big exam, because

Malcolm Collins: Twitter?

Speaker 4: is The

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx): Uh, Nazi.

Speaker 4: ? Everything is

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx): Uh, Nazi.

Speaker 4: to you, Mama! Well, I like

Malcolm Collins: Twitter?

Speaker 4: And I like

Simone Collins: the right!

Speaker 4: And I'm gonna keep doing them both, because they make me feel good!

And by the way, mama,

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-2: Women don't have penises.

Speaker 4: And I like

Malcolm Collins: Trump ,

Speaker 4: and

Malcolm Collins: Trump

Speaker 4: Likes me back.

Malcolm Collins: Or the Rapunzel mom, right? Like, very Rapunzel, right?

Speaker 15: Mother knows best, it's a scary world out there. Something will go wrong, I swear. Ruffians, thugs, also large buds, men with pointy teeth,

mother will protect you. Darling, here's what I suggest.

Malcolm Collins: You know, oh, you, you just can't go out [00:03:00] there in the world full of nappies, don't you know?

Speaker 15: Mother knows best. Take it from your mumsy sloppy, underdressed, immature, clumsy. Colourful, naive, positive. Should we drop

Malcolm Collins: But on top of all these things. It, it, it's so like an embodiment of the Safe space song in South Park where these people are isolating themselves from reality.

Speaker 5: My safe space. People don't judge me and haters don't hate In my safe

safe space.

Speaker 6: You will see There's a very select crowd In your safe space

Speaker 5: People that support me Mixed in with More people that support me And say nice things My

Speaker 6: you cannot stop me from getting inside! I am cold and I am hard, and my name is Reality!

Speaker 5: Oh no, not [00:04:00] Reality! Somebody stop him!

Malcolm Collins: Where these people are isolating themselves from reality. Mm-Hmm. And I wanna talk about this because it has hugely deleterious psychological consequences Mm-Hmm. To the individuals who are doing this.

Hmm. This is not a mentally healthy thing to do. And Oh, let's go over some, some more memes before we go further here. So next year we have mastodon X and threads kicking at someone and laughing at them, and then they go to blue sky, which I think shows how quickly they mastodon, it seemed as blasting their own little safe servers.

It doesn't work. They'll never be satisfied with anything. That's the thing. They wanted to be able to lord their power over conservatives. They didn't want to just be lording their power over each other.

And they, they, when they go to Mastodon, well, who [00:05:00] can they pick on, but only other progressives. And so they go on other progressives and pick on them and they know that they're going to be picked on soon with it. They're all going to leave blue sky soon. I mean, this is a, I love a left aggressive. Look at all the numbers that are leaving and we'll get into the numbers.

And I'm like, well, the numbers really aren't that big and they're not bigger than the numbers that went to mastodon. So I don't know why you think it's going to work this time, but have fun. It turns out what you hate. is each other. You wanted an environment where you could bully someone who couldn't protect themselves.

Yeah. And now you're in an environment where you're the one being bullied.

Simone Collins: They just have themselves to, to eat. Yeah, it is.

Malcolm Collins: And I love, you know, when many people are talking and I, and I actually think that this is really true about this. It's a Rick and Morty meme here where Morty saying, what s**t is that?

And then Rick says, It's, it's, burp, it's a new competitor to X, it lets people post pictures and videos and write bits of text marketed as some kind of Twitter thing as an alternative to that [00:06:00] a*****e Elon Musk platform, and then Morty says, that's just Instagram with extra steps! And you know, that's effing true!

By the way, I don't think Elon's an a*****e, Elon's awesome, but that, that is true. And we've mentioned this on other things, more people will increasingly realize As Elon is increasingly entering the public mind share that he might be more awesome than you thought he was Anyway here i'm gonna read a post by Richard Hanania, which I thought was really awesome on this particular topic The left seems demoralized without twitter.

They're all just crying into the void There's no coordinated mechanism for them to encourage each other and respond to events Fragmented media landscape hurts the mainstream media. The left has lost their power. Do you want me to go into the statistics around blue sky before we talk more about it?

Simone Collins: Yeah. I'm also like, do you have details on how they were? Found it because why was Twitter creating a competitor to itself?

Malcolm Collins: They did though, because they were [00:07:00] a giant bureaucratic company that was idiotic, but yes essentially somebody, I think it was one of the leadership team at Twitter was like, we need to create and I'll add more in, in posts,

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-3: Blue sky began in 2019 as a research initiative at Twitter led that by then CEO, Jack Dorsey. The project was initially funded by Twitter for $13 million to begin development. However, blue sky was incorporated as an independent company called blue sky social in October, 2021. It is a public benefit corporation. The reason for Twitter creating a competitor to itself. , was because it was likely, never meant to be spin out.

I think it was spin out with the knowledge of a potential acquisition on hand. So I suspect there's going to be lawsuits around this in the near future. , in addition to that,

The goal was to create something that was slightly more decentralized in the way Twitter was operated. However, now that blue sky is we're running as essentially a Twitter clone and competitor.

, it is all centralized. [00:08:00] So what I mean by that is it's a technically a decentralized architecture that is all being controlled by one team and ran on one server, making it functionally, not decentralized at all.

Simone Collins: I see. Okay. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, you know, they call their tweets skeets. Skeets.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Skeets. All right. So since its launch, Blue Sky has experienced significant growth, initially available through an invite only beta in 2023, it opened to the public in 2024 and has rapidly gained users, surpassing 20 million by November 2024.

The platform's growth has been fueled partially by dissatisfaction with changes on X under Elon Musk's ownership. However this Represents a significant increase if you're talking about like the users this year they have grown by 13 million users since october 2024 But remember they only recently launched before that the platform added 1 million users per day for eight consecutive days in november as of 2024 ex formally twitter [00:09:00] has a substantial user base specifically so when people are like, oh blue sky is so big, right?

They've got 20 million users X has 335. 7 million users. Okay, wow. But the bigger problem comes in their active users. Okay? Because Blue Sky has been kind of fudging their active users. When Twitter says it has 335, 3. 7 million active monthly users. What is its active daily users? The active daily users on X is 237.

8 million. The active daily users on BlueSky right now at its absolute height is 3. 5 million. And that's a 300 percent increase since election day that before election day, it was at around a 1 million active users while Twitter was [00:10:00] 237. 8 million active users. Basically blue sky is completely irrelevant.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, I mean, there is an argument to be made. I don't think this is the case with blue sky, but there's an argument to be made that it's not true. Very small social networks that have the right people on them, like very high agency people in the world, live players by Sam and Bersha's definition are incredibly meaningful and are the only networks that matter.

But this is

Malcolm Collins: not that,

Simone Collins: this is not that. No,

Malcolm Collins: Blue Sky is like an automatic lefty opinion generator. So I try to like reload the front page a few times to one, find out what type of reach you get if you're a famous person on Blue Sky and to understand like, okay. What type of things are they talking about on blue sky?

So i'll put here two random front pages. I got the first was The top post on blue sky at the time was Mark Cuban saying, remember [00:11:00] new users are coming on daily, unsure of engagement. The more posts you like and reply to the stronger the platform becomes exclamation Mark.

So Mark Cuban is shilling blue sky. Did he like become like shadow Elon Musk? Like the dark, pathetic version of him because he sided with the lefties and Elon Musk actually had the balls to side with the side that was standing for justice and love. That is pretty

Simone Collins: funny. Yeah. Love it.

Malcolm Collins: You know, no, I think that that's what happened is he thought he was doing the right thing initially.

He historically has been somewhat based at least, but now he's sort of stuck in lefty sphere and being like discount Elon Musk. And so he is, and you'll see him a lot. Like when I look at blue sky, he's a lot the top poster. He's sort of like to Twitter where you see Elon's tweets all the times and you're like, I did not ask for that.

for this. He has blue skies version of Elon Musk tweets. And it's like sad shilling. And then what's the one under that? It's under grateful dead pool. And it goes, this needs to be said aloud and often. Can I tell you a [00:12:00] secret? I don't care if there are undocumented immigrants in this country. I think it's a non issue without social security numbers.

They're not getting the welfare people claim they're getting in the vast majority of them are normal

people trying to live a better life.

By the way, this isn't true. There are many ways you can get government assistance without a social security number. A lot of illegal aliens are getting government assistance, but this person

Speaker 7: They're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, ,

Speaker 9: eat the cat. The Springfield, Ohio Police Department has debunked this very bizarre And very hateful cat. Eat the cat.

Speaker 7: Eat the cat.

Eat the, you're eating the dogs.

No eating dog, you cats. Eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat, eat the cat,

Malcolm Collins: actually, one thing that I

Simone Collins: heard recently read [00:13:00] is that the UN has been giving prepaid debit cards to many Migrants and Oh, what's the word for people fleeing countries?

Refugees to move prepaid debit cards to come to the United States. No, the U. N. The United Nations. So that is using some taxpayer dollars from people in the U. S. because The U. S. supports the United Nations. So yeah, there, there's a lot of different forms of aid that people receive and it's not necessarily directly from the U.

S. government, but it can be from the U. S. taxpayers nonetheless.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, no, it's just ridiculous. And so by the way, like how many likes are these things getting? Right. So with the top one, the top one on the platforms right now, you're looking at 3. 6 K likes and 12. 3 K likes. Basically no one is seeing this s**t.

Okay. And what else? Because I love that people are like, oh, no, it's not just lefty nonsense and like self congratulatory, all right, here's another one. Okay, what, what happened the next time I [00:14:00] loaded it? Right? It's a meme of scientists and a huge crowd of scientists and somebody saying, Yes, you all are wrong.

And then it says a man who saw a YouTube video and it's like, well, if you understand how much the scientific community is held hostage by the memetic virus you would be like, yeah, that makes perfect sense. I know lots of scientists who don't feel comfortable saying anything against the virus. And then, okay, what's the next one?

Well, the next one on the platform is a guy saying, Tim Waltz need a podcast to help get us through the next four years. Do you agree? And then the next is an Onion article, which appears on there all the time. So, no, it is just Lefty Slop. And it's something you would only go to if you only wanted Lefty Slop.

Simone Collins: Well, they need a safe space.

Speaker 5: In my safe

Simone Collins: Because keep in mind, so this, the, the, the hyper progressive left community anyway, like uniquely and [00:15:00] disproportionately sees any interaction or exposure to someone who is non compliant in terms of ideology and belief as being constrained. So this, Like infection, like, like a zombie and infectious disease, you, you can't go near it or you get tainted

Speaker 6: my name is Reality!

Speaker 5: Oh no, not Reality! Somebody stop him!

Simone Collins: in the same room as someone declared by the woke mind virus as an enemy, a racist whatever.

Because by doing so you, you will yourself be somehow tainted or ruined or whatever, because I guess they'll change your mind that easily. But that would make sense, right? You didn't need loose time. I

Malcolm Collins: think because it's the majority opinion within my community. Yeah, what that insinuates is just still If I was in another majority opinion, I would immediately cave.

Simone Collins: I mean, that's, yeah. That is what is implied by that. Not by us, but by that ideology in general.

Malcolm Collins: So I'll tell you another reason why a lot of people are leaving X. Okay. And this is, like, actually more comical to me. [00:16:00] The stupidity of this, the new X contract allows for it to be used and what's posted to be used for AI scraping and people

Simone Collins: everything's been scraped like up to what do you think people have been using for AI training data so far?

Malcolm Collins: Why would you not want your information scraped for AI? AI is going to be the dominant player in human civilization going forwards. The stuff created by AI that is going to be counter scraped by other AI. Is the stuff that the foundations of our descendants millions of years from now is going to be based on you are lucky that you get the chance to conceivably possibly contribute to stuff that AI is going to scrape.

Simone Collins: Hold on though. You're telling me the blue sky doesn't allow this, right? They don't allow AI scraping because then that's a feature, not a bug. That means that like a leftist, like

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-4: So on blue sky itself, isn't building an AI model and scraping data on the platform to build an AI model in the same way, Xs with grok it, [00:17:00] however.

Does not prevent other parties from scraping its data for AI building? , I wish it did because I agree with what someones saying here.

How cool would it be if we trapped all of the leftists in a little bubble and prevented all of their slop from making it into AI training sets.

Simone Collins: the point is many of them are

Malcolm Collins: idiotically leaving Twitter because of this. And I'm like, I, I, right now we reached out to the nonprofit that runs the pile or it's like an AI company that does a big training data set.

I'm like, can I give you our training data for all our episodes and our books? Because I will give that to anyone training AI.

Simone Collins: Yeah, anyone, anyone who's opting out of AI training data is opting out of being part of reality in the future. That is, it's, I can't understand it. That's crazy.

Malcolm Collins: Right? No, it literally is.

It is, it is memetically taking a gun and shooting yourself in the head. It's emptying out of relevance. Why would, why would someone do that? All the horses start running and one of the horses is just like, I'm [00:18:00] like, what the f**k

did you do that

for? I don't want to race for other people's amusement. I was like, well, that's what you were bred for.

Yeah.

Oh my God. But it's one of these things where it's not like and I point this out to people who don't understand what all this means. They're like, Oh, AI is like taking like artists jobs. It's like, no, it's taking humanity's job to a large extent. If you opt yourself out of AI training data, that isn't not letting somebody, they look at it like somebody who's like, Copying them or cheating off of their homework.

That's like, you get to be the cognition or an aspect of the cognition of the future of humanity. And you are opting out of that.

Simone Collins: It's not a deal. That's crazy. So yeah, I, I, I

Malcolm Collins: want to talk about the psychological effects of something like blue sky as well.

Simone Collins: I don't like by any stretch [00:19:00] or in any way memetically isolating yourself. I think that It can lead to really toxic behavior and it has done so in the past. So that scares me, but it also just, it makes me sad because we're looking at a social group here that is uniquely unwilling to engage with outsiders.

And this is just another example of it. And these are people who have cut friends out of their lives. We've had plenty of people cut us out of their lives because we hold views that are considered non compliant. And these are people who already are buying in. To an ideology and culture that atomizes them, that separates them from their communities, that replaces religion with therapists, that replaces community with, you know, paid child care and paid elder care, and that replaces friends with social media scrolling.

And here you have another example of, of now, even more exposure to the outside world being cut off, even more friends being cut off. And it just. It makes me sad to see these people increasingly isolated, [00:20:00] increasingly alone. Because you hear people talking about the loneliness epidemic and this group caring about the wellbeing of people, at least performatively, at least believing they care, does worry about loneliness, does worry about sadness.

And just to see that they like keep making it worse makes me. And plus also, this is just another condemnation or an endorsement on their part of this, this concept that any criticism, any bullying, any like bad mouthing or teasing is a harmful act of violence. When really, like, the whole point of exchanging ideas is that there has to be disagreement.

It's not interesting if there's no disagreement. And here in these memes that you're showing, like, it's, it's people are leaving X because they don't like that people there sometimes don't agree with them. Don't give them a participation trophy for The desire

Malcolm Collins: for constant affirmation and the expectation, [00:21:00] psychologically, of constant affirmation causes gigantic, negative, deleterious effects.

And it reminds me of, like, the parents who freak out on me for not giving my kids constant affirmation. I recently got in trouble, not for bopping, just for Yanking my kid out of a an environment because he stole something from another kid and I was like, okay, we're going home and, and two moms like chased me out and we're like, how dare you punish your child?

And I was like, do you not understand like the negative consequences that will happen to your child's brain if he never experiences somebody being angry at him and he never experiences punishment if he never experiences boundaries and they're like, well I would just sit him down and explain that it's not very nice and I'm like, this is what blue sky is It's the people who are also like

Simone Collins: lady What do you think we spent the morning doing?

Like we also coached the kids ahead of leaving like if we're going to a shared space here the boundaries Here are the things you can't do because they also had a they [00:22:00] developed a reputation of being You The child equivalent of wedding crashers. Like they kept going to other kids, birthday parties. And

Malcolm Collins: well, because the parents don't turn them away.

It's horrifying. My kids will hang out around the arcade and wait for somebody to pay for a game for them. And I'm like, stop feeding the bears. Yeah. If you feed the bears, the bears are going to expect food.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Not ideal.

Malcolm Collins: We'll do a whole episode on this particular topic, but like it is deeply disappointing to me and I hadn't realized how far the inspection had spread and how pathetic most parents were in terms of discipline in terms of, and this wasn't me bopping the kid.

This was me just grabbing a child who was leaving now.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: In an angry tone to something that the kid went in saying, I have only one rule. I know this rule. I won't do this. Still did it. [00:23:00]

Simone Collins: Our kids like pushing boundaries and that's what kids should do. Our kids should push boundaries, but the problem is boundary pushing and play and all that is a core part of child development.

It is very important. But the whole point of that is that they learn where the boundaries are. To find the

Malcolm Collins: boundaries.

Simone Collins: Yeah. If you remove all the boundaries,

Malcolm Collins: do you not think that you're Roomba's brain?

If you keep a Roomba from ever hitting a wall, do you not, do you think that's going to be good for the programming of the Roomba?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Then the Roomba goes into the real world and goes straight off a cliff, right into a bitty rope. Like, I don't know. Just, just bad. This is bad.

Malcolm Collins: It's bad. I don't like it. It's sad and pathetic. And I'm really like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a suggestion

Simone Collins: I can give you.

Malcolm Collins: Is there, you have a what? Gossip. What gossip? Two fun pieces of gossip. Okay, so, one was in a previous episode, we had been like talking about like, I bet that like, blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth line.

Like, that doesn't mean [00:24:00] weak, right? The way that a lot of people take it to mean. Yeah, it means like

Simone Collins: humble. I look it up, you know

Malcolm Collins: what it actually means?

Simone Collins: What? Like in the original?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, no, in Greek. What the word meant as it was written in its original form.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: The word meant people with self control. Ah!

It was specifically used to describe tamed horses. Blessed are

Simone Collins: the disciplined. Yes, blessed

Malcolm Collins: are the self disciplined, for they shall inherit the earth.

Well, that's that's great. That's great. I love the situation. Where did meek come from? What

kind of psyops was

that? That's some f ing psyops right there.

Simone Collins: That is wow. Okay. Who

Malcolm Collins: ever did that? Okay, so here's another fun thing. So Ellen DeGeneres, you know she's leaving the U. S.? Oh, she's actually going to, good for her. Someone needs to go to Canada or wherever. Apparently she's planning to go anyway because even progressives hate her now. So she had this show that was like semi popular and then it turned out that she [00:25:00] was a terrible human being.

I still love that you and I don't have to worry about that. Like we are so open about like, We punish our kids. We expect good things for them. And that's the worst thing you're going to find on us.

Simone Collins: I think that the important thing is you set expectations low and then surpass them and then you're okay.

The problem is that everyone just assumes she was the nicest person in the entire world. Because she

Malcolm Collins: ended every show is and being nice.

Simone Collins: Well, and like, she, didn't she play Dory in finding Nemo? Just like, you just assume that she's going to be this like super nice. Doesn't have a mean thought in her entire soul.

Which is just not human. Dude, apparently

Malcolm Collins: she's like the meanest human being ever born. She has a problem. All these people who have like friendly, like

Simone Collins: Rachel Ray is famous for this too. You know, she had this cheerful brand and then like, you know, she wants privacy at a restaurant or something and, you know, people freak out and lose their minds because God forbid, the one She's gotten

Malcolm Collins: people fired for saying, hey, how was your day?

Simone Collins: Okay. At the

Malcolm Collins: studio, not on her team. [00:26:00] Oh. Oh. She got a, she got a a, a, she tried to get somebody fired from a restaurant because they served her with chipped nail paint. Not like chipped on her food. It just wasn't perfect nails.

She is like the Karen. She is the, the end boss of Karens.

Speaker 11: Rock is a new beginning! From

Speaker 12: f ed up right here.

Speaker 13: Oh, god damn it, not again.

Speaker 17: We'll get you, you b***h. And to think I actually watched your HBO special.

Malcolm Collins: That's

Simone Collins: really bad. Well, and

Malcolm Collins: the left to realize this. And so she was deciding, and she talked about it before she was going to leave the country anyway, but now she's saying she's doing it because of Trump and everyone's like, well, that's wonderful.

Simone Collins: Oh, so now she gets some redemption.

Malcolm Collins: Even at like the top of like Reddit, the, the far lefty brain did not only like a [00:27:00] conservative subreddit on our advice animals were like, well, that's okay. I'm glad to see you go, Ellen. Oh, no.

Simone Collins: Oh, no. Poor Ellen. She's just a person. I don't

Malcolm Collins: think

Simone Collins: so.

Malcolm Collins: She's a person who utilized her power to hurt and dunk on people who she saw as less powerful than herself and wants affirmation in spite of that.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: People who

Malcolm Collins: do that

Simone Collins: are bad. And that sounds just extremely human. People who do that are people.

Malcolm Collins: They are not evil, but like You, in the entire time I've known you, have ever tried to attack somebody weaker than yourself. I'm

Simone Collins: not a human. I'm an autist. We don't have souls. As your mother made clear. I don't count.

It doesn't matter.

Well,

Malcolm Collins: okay, here's the question. I may lash out at you. Do I ever lash out at people who are obviously weaker than us, Simone? Ever?

Simone Collins: You dismiss them all the time. You'd have a terrible reputation as a rich person. But I don't try to [00:28:00]

Malcolm Collins: hurt them. No, you don't try to hurt them, no. Sorry, when she says I dismiss them, she's like, I have this thing that's like a muggle when it sees magic.

When I'm talking to somebody who I know doesn't matter, like, my eyes

Simone Collins: Yeah. And you're just like, you try to end the conversation really fast or like find some way to walk away quickly. And it's super obvious to them that you think, which is tough. Cause like, they're, they're even fans of like our podcast to like, try to engage with you.

And then they like immediately know like, Oh God, Malcolm thinks I don't matter because you like

Malcolm Collins: suddenly can't see them anymore

and you like it. Not that I think they don't matter. Simone. The problem is I know they don't matter. I'm just trying to spend the little time I have in this world judiciously.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But anyway, like that wouldn't get you points as a famous person, but I guess the important thing back to my point is that if you set expectations very low and then you turn out to be like an okay person, then you're okay. If you set expectations high and everyone expects you to [00:29:00] be Glenda, the good witch or whatever, like super nice, then they get disappointed when you aren't that, which is,

Malcolm Collins: we've made all our flaws known.

So hopefully. Yeah. When we get in trouble for being, doing famous people things, and we get and some people are like, Oh my god, these people are so desperate to become famous

and it's like, yeah. Our goal was a lot of this. The only people who are saying that are people who haven't achieved any level of fame yet. They're even have already achieved fame. They're like, I really appreciate your guys hustle. Like I like your content and I appreciate how much you hustle at this and how much.

You know, you project with this, but also, you know, when you've got three guardian articles about us this year, a wall street journal piece, it seems like a New York time piece. Do you think they're still going to publish that? What happened to the New York Times first? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, but we'll be there soon Oh one thing that asthma gold said about Ellen that I really take to heart about our own careers And I want you to remember this [00:30:00] Simone is at one point She took time off because she was being attacked publicly And Asmogold said, that's the death sentence, never, ever, ever take a break.

Simone Collins: No, you, you never, well, one, never apologize, but also like don't disappear. He said that too.

Malcolm Collins: He said never apologize unless you mean it.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you, if you, if you made a mistake, but also like, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: There's things I regret. I regret selling our own Bitcoin and telling other people when we, when we did.

I don't, I don't

Simone Collins: personally regret that, but I, I know that you do. We made the most optimal decision given, given the information we had at the time. At least I, I did. Yeah, I,

Malcolm Collins: I don't regret it given the context, because we told people to buy in at less than 50 percent that, like, like less than half that price.

So anyone who bought in when we told them to would have more trouble with their money. And as to why I was okay with selling out then, because many people, I, I guess I didn't fully explain my logic. Camel had said she was pro Bitcoin and Trump was known as pro Bitcoin. So I [00:31:00] didn't expect a bump in Bitcoin when the president was elected because I assumed both candidates had signaled a pro Bitcoin status.

So that was priced in. In addition to that my assumption was that The rise in Bitcoin prices cycle would be less than other cycles because the happening mattered less to the new supply and thus to the amount of Bitcoin on the market. And in addition to that my assumption was that if in any cycle, the peak of the cycle was lower, or around the peak of the cycle before the price of Bitcoin would almost immediately collapse.

And I didn't want to risk that with something that was such a ginormous portion of our portfolio. And it was absolutely enormous in terms of our wealth that was invested in Bitcoin. So I am okay with it because it's better than losing everything. We

Simone Collins: made money. And we reduced downside risk again.

Like I don't, I don't see the problem here. We made the most optimal to shoot like there. And there, there could have been information that I didn't have that [00:32:00] obviously had I had it, I would have made a different decision. But the, the whole thing is like in terms of, of thinking, but I admit

Malcolm Collins: when I'm wrong and I was super wrong about that and I'm embarrassed about it, but I won't remove the episode.

You didn't make the wrong

Simone Collins: decision. You just made a call that turned out to not yield the top payout. I'm embarrassed when I'm wrong. I

Malcolm Collins: want, I want people to know.

Simone Collins: People who train people in playing like professional poker, a very big bugaboo that they frequently have is the person plays as optimally as they can.

Then they lose the hand or that round or whatever. I don't know how to play poker. And they're like, Oh, well, I'm, I lost. So I must've done something wrong. And no, technically they did everything absolutely right. Sometimes you just don't have enough information to have made a winning play. And that's, that is, that is how it goes.

That doesn't mean that you did it wrong. That means that like a lot didn't have it that, you know, or you didn't have the right information to do that. So now there [00:33:00] are things that we could have done. Like, I could have maybe researched more like. Asked more people for advice or something. So yeah, I mean, there's always more that we can do and it is our fault in the end for anything that we do, anything that goes wrong, it's, it's going to be our fault, but like, I'm just saying, I don't have any regrets because I am pretty, like I did.

No,

Malcolm Collins: I think that we did like, as I've been replaying it in my mind, I think the risks that many people aren't considering is if this cycle didn't top out significantly higher than the last cycle, there would have been an immediate collapse in the price. And that's what I was trying to avoid, given how much of our portfolio was.

Simone Collins: But this morning, or like last night, maybe someone on X sent us a meme of like, how people who sold their Bitcoin before the election feel. It was like this gif, I think maybe from Oppenheimer. It looks like it was from Oppenheimer. It was just like the protagonist, like everyone's congratulating him and celebrating and he's just like has this thousand mile stare.

Malcolm Collins: I really don't mind when crypto goes up. I always [00:34:00] want, even when we don't own it, crypto to go up because when crypto goes up, good people with good political opinions have more money and they're spending money on stuff.

Simone Collins: Yeah, dude. Yeah. I'm all for it. It's great. And actually a point that the guys on the online podcast are making vis a vis reducing like dumb regulatory bloat.

Cause keep in mind, like to invest in businesses. And you know, to be an investor, you have to be an accredited investor at this point, right? And yet you're allowed to gamble. You're allowed to go to Vegas. You're allowed to do sports betting in most states in the United States. You're, you're allowed to buy Bitcoin and you can't invest in businesses.

Like that is insane.

Malcolm Collins: By the way, people who want to buy into GPUs, let us know. We're doing a play in this space. It looks like it might have like a 50 percent IRR year over year, but we'll see. But that's what the data says. That's what the historic data says, which is pretty effing crazy. Anyway, Simone, any, any other points you want to make on our general, a lot of people like our general random chat.

Simone Collins: Yeah, which you [00:35:00] used to be quite opposed to, who knew?

Malcolm Collins: Well, I think that there's not a lot of models out there for what like loving, smart couples say to each other.

Simone Collins: Well, I was reading another article recently that was posted in some like San Francisco newspaper about polygenic risk score selection, and it started by talking about us and the fact that we do it.

Yeah. But it's kind of backfire and it's terrible and it's the, it's a very common argument made by typically progressive commentators that polygenic risk score selection is new and who even knows if it works. And so, like, basically per their belief sets. They're like, okay, well, maybe it doesn't even work.

This is still new. Who knows? Like, it's just risks anyway. Nothing is guaranteed. And like, how could you put it on these children? Like now they're growing up with these insane expectations. Like this is irresponsible parenting. And then I think like, you're not [00:36:00] criticizing.

Malcolm Collins: The progressive di democrats today are Republicans from the 1990s.

Well, you know, where they're

Simone Collins: not criticizing, they're not criticizing like Chinese families that have like their, you know, they try to have a kid during like the year of the tiger or Dragon or something. They don't, you know, or anyone who's like looking at like auspicious dates and all these other things.

And, and I'm like, but, but you know what? Ultimately, if you were to ask. A progressive person behind closed doors, like, okay, well, yeah, but what about like all the people who are having kids like on auspicious dates or other, other ways that they, you know, that they don't think are science based. They don't think are like realistic, but leave those kids with expectations.

And they'd be like, well, yeah, I don't really support those either. But like, then what do they support? Like waiting until you're 37. panicking, trying to have a kid at great, like physical and personal expense, like only managing to have one child getting super stressed about your career, kind of stepping back, kind of not like their, their option, their plan for parenting is not very good.

And it's just insane to me that [00:37:00] like, And they would s**t on both like the, the culture of the tech entrepreneur who like, okay, fine. Like if, if PGT doesn't, PGTP doesn't work, which by the way, it's, it's, this is very like science based is very obviously does assuming they're right. Right. Like assuming they're right.

It's just our culture. Like, let us do, let us do our version of horoscope. All right. Like, why, why do you have to like dunk on our culture, especially when your culture doesn't work for you? So it just made me mad to see that article, but

Malcolm Collins: inserted yelling at me about like the way I was, because I punished our kids.

I was like, but like, look at the suicide rates. Like, obviously society isn't working right now. And she's like, don't pass it on. Don't pass, like, like break the cycle for the next generation. Do you want your kids to treat their kids this way? And I was like, obviously I do. Yeah, I want my kids to punish their kids.

Are you out of your mind, lady? And she was horrified by this. I was like, I'm not punishing my kids because I lost [00:38:00] my tipper. I'm punishing my kids because kids need punishment.

Simone Collins: Kids need boundaries. Kids need boundaries. I don't, I don't really believe in punishment. I believe in showing you where the wall is and, and doing that artificially when the real world is, is not yet a safe place for that to happen, right? Like the real world is The kid runs into the street

Malcolm Collins: when I was taking the kids out of the place when I went to find Octavian, when I went to find him, he was pretending to bite some like teenager's leg and they were like, Oh my God, whose child is this?

Our kids are savages.

Simone Collins: They are. They're savages. Um, but yeah, like, so in the real world, your kid runs into the street, they die. Like parents don't punish. They provide walls that are more gentle than the real world. Yeah. And, and consequences that are more gentle than the real world, and then they hopefully prepare children for the real world so that they don't run into the road and die.

Like, I don't know. I [00:39:00] just,

Malcolm Collins: everyone has their

Simone Collins: own parenting methods and quite frankly, those parenting methods are probably appropriate. Barring toxic monoculture culture, but they're probably good for their kids. The lady I

Malcolm Collins: was talking to, she was so proud, and I was like, well, this is going to cause mental health issues for our kids if I do this.

She goes, you didn't know this about me, but I have mental health issues. She was very proud of this fact. Like, she thought she was, like, getting this, like, in on me. I had just made a major social faux pas. I know in my head I'm being like, yeah, 70 percent of the women in your generation think they have mental health issues.

Like, they identify as one of the massive part of their personality. That's not surprising if you are basic as is basic not.

Simone Collins: Millennials are just like screwed up. I get a

Malcolm Collins: bonk stick. I really want like a doge bonk stick whenever I'm talking to someone who's Jewish and it just like appears out of nowhere and I can go bonk, bonk, bonk, bonk.[00:40:00]

Simone Collins: Oh God. What? Well, I remember for the boring company when they sold this limited edition flamethrowers, it'd be great if there was like limited edition doge. Merch that could, like, help to fund the employment for the program. Robotic.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I like that. This child! Simone, you're not beating her enough. She's just wiggly.

She has wiggles that she has to get

Simone Collins: out

Malcolm Collins: of her system. I really like you.

Simone Collins: I really like teddy bear suits for infants. Why would you not just, like, have a teddy bear? Right.

Out.

Or a teddy bear.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, like

Simone Collins: it's it's just

Malcolm Collins: you is knock up a woman or get up women.

Simone Collins: Anyway, I love your duty. I love you very much, Malcolm.

And I'm going to start your slow cooker beef. You're okay with chopped onions, right? Do you want long bits or do you want confetti? Confetti, [00:41:00]

Malcolm Collins: confetti, and the two packs of rendang and the coconut milk and the chopped beef and the only one can. I

Simone Collins: think you need at least two cans or else I need to put in chicken broth or.

Tomato. At least two cans of what?

Malcolm Collins: Coconut milk. Oh, then put it in two cans. I just thought that one can would be fine. You got a lot of beef.

Simone Collins: Is it okay that I cube it? Because I just think it's going to cook better if I cube it. You said you wanted more slices. Whatever you think is

Malcolm Collins: best. I just think that when I stir it, it'll break down faster if it's sheets.

And then you don't have to cut twice, but if you want a cube instead of sheets, that's fine for me. I'll do sheets. I understand what you're saying is like sort of the cleaving is easier.

Simone Collins: The

Malcolm Collins: cleaving will happen as I stir it. And if it's cubed, you might get more cubes lasting for longer in the end.

Simone Collins: And then you'll never.

You'll never let me live it down. Will you? I'm just

Malcolm Collins: trying to explain to you how to best create a mess. The goal with our slow cooking is to create something where the meat [00:42:00] totally breaks down and creates a meat slurry, which can be eaten like a forever stew, and then I reheat it in various other dishes which are

Simone Collins: fried rice.

It goes into taquitos. It goes into. Well, what I'm going to do the first night that it's ready. So tomorrow night is we're going to try those viral smash potatoes. Which almost come out kind of like chips mashed potatoes. Yeah. So I think you parboil them and then you bake them. And there's a lot of butter involved.

That's why they're amazing. But you smash like parboiled potatoes under like a glass and they get smashed and sort of flattened and then you bake them and then they come out like crispy and delicious.

Malcolm Collins: Do you know, I want to tell you something. Do you know how many guys would kill for a wife like you?

I mean, literally kill. I am not surprised if I end up dying because of somebody who wishes they could be married to you.

Simone Collins: I think a lot of humans would just literally kill if they were given the option, like the ultimate sport. So I don't know how much I would do that. You know that. Yeah. You wouldn't, you wouldn't have to kill [00:43:00] for anything.

You would just kill.

Malcolm Collins: No, but

I

Simone Collins: mean, kill

Malcolm Collins: even with society's rules.

Simone Collins: Oh, like at the risk of being.

Malcolm Collins: There's, this has happened to a lot of YouTube couples,

Simone Collins: like

Malcolm Collins: that wife is too good for that man.

Simone Collins: Oh, that someone's going to try to kill you.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: I'm not, I don't think that I think it's going to be in our house.

No, no, I doubt that. And also like, I'm, I'm, I'm famously, you know, ugly online four slash three, apparently. But if Margot Robbie is mad, I You're an obsessive fan, Simone. I don't think they would like me for my looks. They're kind of like the ones who are like, I would, Yeah, they might like

Malcolm Collins: you. They might like you for your personality and dedication to being a great wife.

Simone Collins: Aw,

Malcolm Collins: thanks.

Simone Collins: Well,

Malcolm Collins: I don't, I don't like you for that. I want to be clear. I think that you're pretty disgusting, but yeah, you'd like me for, I like you [00:44:00] only for your looks. Oh. I've, I've learned this from girls I've dated in the past. Yes. There's only

Simone Collins: one answer that you can give to a woman, which is I like you because you're irresistibly beautiful and young looking.

This is 100 percent true. I'm not breaking eye contact.

Malcolm Collins: Oh my gosh, you are a delightful person. Can I just, like, I don't say that enough.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah. Like you don't say it like 10 times. Every like two hours. How often do I tell you that I

Malcolm Collins: appreciate you?

Simone Collins: I mean, multiple times a day, like at least five times every night. But that's only at nighttime. That's after the sun has set.

So before then, you're the most loving and affectionate. Husband out there, which is insane because normally like the high value ones are just kind of cold and like they understand their values that they don't have to reciprocate. I [00:45:00] appreciate. I

Malcolm Collins: don't have wives who make them amazing dishes. See something online or like, Oh, this is a popular dish on the, on the tick tocks.

I'm going to see if I can make this for my husband.

Simone Collins: I mean, Yeah, because our kids don't eat anything good. And like, make all these amazing things for you, and I hope the kids will eat it, and then they're like, Where are my dinosaur nuggets? Where's the pizza?

Malcolm Collins: Well, if they're not dinosaur nuggets, then they're not real dinosaurs, Simone.

I knew this as a kid. Did you forget who you bred with?

Simone Collins: Yeah, no, I, I mean, I keep in mind, I did not eat vegetables until I was like 16 years old. I only ate like bland,

Malcolm Collins: not even at all. So I

Simone Collins: wouldn't eat mashed potatoes. Even I would only eat the like reconstituted flakes. If it was like,

Malcolm Collins: what do you think about us being over 5 million views?

Simone Collins: Oh,

that's, I can't really think about it because it's, we're getting to stupid numbers. Like, I can't make sense [00:46:00] of that. A human isn't capable of wrapping their head around that kind of size of a group, you know? So it just becomes like more than I can comprehend and we passed that a long

time ago.

Malcolm Collins: It's a lot of people.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: It's a stupidly large amount of people. You guys shouldn't be watching this. This is a kid making farting noises and a wife and a husband jacking off about how terrible blue sky is.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll let it go and I'll start your dinner, but I love you. Malcolm. Taquitos tonight, right? Tequilas tonight.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Hey, don't forget to put mostly

Simone Collins: cheese. Basically the, the, the meat is a flavoring agent.

And wrap them tight

Malcolm Collins: because I'm trying to get a lot of crunch there for everything.

Simone Collins: Maximum crunch, minimum meat.

Malcolm Collins: And we got more tortillas. So do not be stingy with the tortillas. It'd be stingy with them. [00:47:00]

Simone Collins: Okay. Do you want any leftovers or should I just take a tiny, tiny amount of meat? Yeah, like do you want leftover taquitos to snack on during the day?

Whatever

Malcolm Collins: you think is good. I'd have them tomorrow. I'd have them today. Whatever you think is good.

Simone Collins: Okay, great. Thank you.

Malcolm Collins: Love thee. Bye bye. Love you.

Simone Collins: Bye. I was thinking this, this morning about your musings as a team that you could use cult tactics to brainwash yourself into doing good things. I mean, if a cult can make totally logical, even very smart and successful people do things that are very damaging to themselves.

Despite them being, you know, very difficult things, then you could probably brainwash yourself into doing stuff that you want for yourself. And I'm like, well, how else can we maybe apply this to help people do things that are good for them? And I was just thinking about like all these, you know, Not like mediocre marriages, especially where women like [00:48:00] just aren't add into their husbands and like get resent and things like that.

And then I was thinking about popular romance genres and I was like, oh, wait, so enemies to lovers is a really popular genre. Like, could you possibly create some kind of regimen? Whereby women start like building this own enemies to lovers fantasy, like if already they're getting resentful of their husbands and like getting all Machiavellian and stuff, then why not like turn it into something that like, in the end goes full circle and they end up like madly in love with their husbands after like super enemy in them.

I think

Malcolm Collins: it's possible. Well, no, here's why it doesn't work. Because when women enemy their husbands, they also degrade them and recontextualize them as lower status.

Simone Collins: Not, no, no, no. But yeah, but you have to be very concerted about it. So you'd have to do like an enemies to lovers and of like, well, then I'm going to be, we're, you have to, you have to Shanghai them into a Pygmalion relationship by the [00:49:00] definition of our pragmatist guides to relationship.

So you have to be like, well, I hate him so much. I'm just going to exploit him and make him the best possible husband and like help him succeed so that I can make tons of money off of him. And then

Malcolm Collins: once they have degraded their husband,

Simone Collins: even if, even if they plan on investing in their husband to make him a better person, because I feel like you don't understand.

You don't understand.

Malcolm Collins: Once they see a man in that way. They can never see them in any other way.

Simone Collins: Really? Because I feel like there are lots of There are plenty of relationships that end and then like a woman sees her husband thrive after like he gets rid of his dad body Yeah, it doesn't work until

Malcolm Collins: they've left him and they're jealous.

So I have seen many women who look down on their becomes a super big deal and then they weren't able to see that or contextualize that.

Simone Collins: Huh. Can we, can we, can we skip the leaving part where like the marriage stays together and we like, get the woman to go. Yeah. If he's sleeping with

Malcolm Collins: other women,

Simone Collins: if he's [00:50:00] no, that's what triggers

Malcolm Collins: it for them.

They're like, Oh, other women. Yeah. Social evaporation. Yeah. But, but

Simone Collins: if the man's going through dumpy phase, it's a lot harder for him to look to

Malcolm Collins: where other women are looking to some great studies

Simone Collins: on this, actually, as

Malcolm Collins: a man, like it's much easier to pick up women with a wedding ring than it is without a wedding ring.

If you're going out there hitting on women, put on a wedding ring because they do that as a sign of I forget the word, but it's like, like social proof,

Simone Collins: social proof. Yeah, it's social signaling. So and you can pick up a wedding ring on Amazon for like 10 and 11 because we just buy them in bulk at this point because Malcolm Keeps missing them.

You can do it, guys, if you're single and you just need to,

Malcolm Collins: you know. I have never lost a wedding ring in my Never. Like, I must have lost, it was in this house, 60 wedding rings at this point, or something like that? Like a large number. And we have no idea where they're going.

Simone Collins: One day, [00:51:00] like literally we're, we're going to hit like a floorboard or something.

And a bunch of rings are just going to come pouring out. Cause it'll turn out that tourist den who keeps stealing them from you, by the way,

Malcolm Collins: really does like stealing them from me. He's asked me for a wedding ring himself. And I said, I can get him a little one for him. And he goes, but then it won't be big.

Like daddy and mommy.

Simone Collins: Oh, he's a sweet kid. Last night. He's like, can I hold those two batteries for daddy and mommy? And he wanted to like take them into his bed. He just wants to hold batteries. That's all he wants in this little world. He holds his little battery. Like Torsten, those batteries have chemicals that can kill little children like you.

And he's like, what did he say? Something about like killer batteries. He's like, can I have the killer batteries? He doesn't, he just understands now that they're dangerous, but he needs to, he needs to hold them and go. He, he rubbed me against his face, you know, the whole rock thing. So he rubbed you? [00:52:00] Yeah.

He like took my hand and was like, ah. Like he's just, he's, he's, that's strange.

Malcolm Collins: He loves rubbing the things he loves against his face. He's very, yeah. The autism is strong

Simone Collins: with this one. Yeah. I love him so much.

Malcolm Collins: All right, so Simone I sent you a collection of memes. Thank you. Go to the bottom one. So the, the most recent one, which is just a post, and then we'll go through the memes in just a second.

Okay.

Simone Collins: Hi.

Malcolm Collins: So right now it's just a post on blue sky, which we'll be talking about later, but yes, okay, so we're cubans on blue sky Yes, we'll talk about it and he's shilling it a lot It's creepy. Oh, okay

Speaker 18: Hello. Hello. Hello. What can I do for you today? Uh. Torsten, show it your sword. Yeah. That sounds exciting. Don't do that, Torsten, or you'll break the, uh, ornaments. [00:53:00] Uh.

In this in-depth discussion, the speakers explore the shift in political alignment of big businesses from the right wing in the 90s to the left wing today. They delve into the memetic virus of urban monoculture and how it spreads within bureaucracies, the mistaken assumption that businesses naturally align with lower taxes and less regulation, and how businesses actually prefer regulations that protect their interests. They also address how big business and dominant cultural groups like theocratic coalitions in the 90s seek to impose their value systems through the justice system and laws. The conversation touches on the psychological and structural reasons behind why big companies are more sensitive to criticism and how this affects their alignment with societal values. Furthermore, they discuss the influence of consumerist culture, the impact of DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion) policies, and the broader implications for corporate America.

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Simone! I'm excited to be talking to you today. Today, I wanted to deep dive on one subject that has been something that has come up in other things that we have talked about, but we've never really done a deep dive on it. And I've noticed some common misconceptions people have around this, which is, I think that everybody broadly knows that in the nineties, big business was predominantly right wing.

If you were, you know, we always use like the Jack Donaghy stereotype here. If you were a big business guy, you were a right wing guy. If you were a big corporate guy at like some, you know, whether it's Black Rock or whether it's, you know, McKinsey the stereotype was, is that you would be right wing. Today the stereotype is that you'd be extremely left wing.

The core Republican party used to be made up of an alliance of a theocratic faction in the United States and a big business faction. And it broke apart making way for the new right alliance with big business departing the [00:01:00] Alliance in the early two thousands. Now. The question is, is why? And the answer that I have always given historically is that this happened because the memetic virus that we call the urban monoculture, some people may call it wokeism, whatever you want to call it, spreads better and faster within bureaucracies.

And I think I think that this is a part of it, but I don't think it's everything. Secondly, I think a core mistake that a lot of people make when they're looking at this is to assume, and I've heard this from so many people, that, well, it's natural that big business was a Republican aligned party in the 90s because It wanted lower tax rates.

It wanted less regulations. It wanted all of that stuff. And this is a very naive understanding of what businesses actually care about, especially large businesses. It is actually just as perplexing [00:02:00] that big businesses align themselves with the right in the nineties as big business aligning themselves with woke as today, because generally big businesses prefer A large amount of regulations and taxes and other barriers to entry.

There is a reason why Sam Altman is going around trying to get everybody terrified of AI so that you can get additional AI regulations because he knows no matter how big the regulations are, they'll never be enough to shut down open AI, but they may prevent his competitors. Do you want to talk on this before I go further?

Simone Collins: No, keep going. This resonates, though.

Malcolm Collins: And so, I was thinking about this, and I was talking to someone about this, and I was saying, well, here's a really interesting thing. When I look at what the Democratic Party represents today an alliance of, and I always use the word urban monoculture, but if I change the definition, an interesting pattern emerges.

It is an alliance [00:03:00] of big business interests and the dominant cultural group in the United States whose primary interest is imposing its value system on other people. And then when I say that and I go back to the 90s, it's like, That was the alliance that existed as well. Yeah, it was big business was the dominant cultural group so when we talk about the theocratic coalition that existed in the 90s This was a group of individuals who are basically like, okay, where does catholicism protestantism judaism?

The main american religious systems mormonism where do their sort of moral shadows overlap? We're going to call this the Judeo Christian tradition. And then we are going to try to impose this on citizens through laws, through the school system, through other things like that. And that is, they, they were never as good at it as the urban monoculture was, but they definitely had the same gist [00:04:00] of an idea.

And I think one before we go into it, this also helps highlight where we are so antagonistic to some people on the right where I think lay people when they see us being antagonistic to these groups, they say that we are being antagonistic to groups that are just further right leaning than ourselves.

And I think that these are the same types of people who think that what happened. is the right today is just the nineties Democrats. And that the both parties have been moving to the left when instead what I'd argue is no, what actually happened is the left today is the nineties theocrats. It's just, we have a different dominant cultural group in this country.

And the right today is a fundamentally new party that doesn't really represent the axis of The political access that existed at all in the 90s. And so when these people are doing their thing and they're like, oh, we want to impose like gay marriage bans or something like that. I'm like, well, you're just acting like the left.

From my perspective, [00:05:00] you're trying to impose a cultural value system, which is why I think there's so much hostility to this sort of rhetoric

Simone Collins: was in

Malcolm Collins: the modern, right. But before we go further with this, I want to ask the question, why does big business constantly find itself on the same side as the dominant cultural group attempting to enforce its value system using the justice system and using the laws of the country?

Simone Collins: Well, because they have the money, right? And business goes where the money is, like sharks following blood.

Malcolm Collins: Do they have the money though? I don't know if they ever really had the money. I don't know how

Simone Collins: you

Malcolm Collins: can, you can't

Simone Collins: impose a policy upon other people without having deep pockets. Politicians don't listen to you if you don't have deep pockets.

I'm going to disagree. Well, no, I also think that, you know, I think the major, huge political donors did go woke. So

Malcolm Collins: I agree with that, but I, I don't think that that is why the politicians are [00:06:00] following them. I think that when I look at the, the, the sort of imposition of woke culture on other people, Yeah.

I think it was from a vocal minority and that the wealthy then ended up following it because they saw this vocal minority and saw them as a threat. And I think it's very similar to like the satanic panic of the eighties or the you know, the extremist evangelicals of the nineties where they never really made up that large of a population. But if you had something like, you know, a demon in a show or something like that, you had to be very careful about it or anything that could be seen. We actually saw this with the Catholics.

I don't know if you're familiar with this, but for a long time, Hollywood wouldn't make any movie that could be interpreted as anti Catholic

because the Catholics were very, very good at vetoing movies.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-1: The organization I'm talking about here is the national Legion of decency, but my timeline is a bit off. They were mostly prominent between the 1930s and 1960s. , and they use the audience of 20 million Catholics who back during that time period would actually listen to what the church told them to [00:07:00] do, which they don't so much anymore. , which has largely why the council lost power. , To boycott movies and they ended up influencing things like the Hays code and most of the movies that were released.

Malcolm Collins: And there was actually this chain of like movies made by Hollywood specifically to endear studios to the church.

Like, in one of them the plot was something like a Catholic preacher was given a confession, but like, that the guy was going to murder someone or like murder him, the preacher. And like, he couldn't do anything about it because he was so moral and he had to follow, you know, these rules. This was a common thing, and you might actually have noticed this, that Catholic preachers were disproportionately in media in the 80s and mid 90s, and you basically don't see them in media anymore because they weren't that big a faction of Americans.

Simone Collins: So that their, their appearances were artificial, you're, you're arguing.

Malcolm Collins: Their appearances were artificial due to, and I'll look up in post some specific examples of this, but it was a specific union of Catholics that would boycott movies. [00:08:00]

Simone Collins: That's so interesting. I mean, that I suppose makes sense, which was, I think, strategically empower.

Is that what you're saying is going on?

Malcolm Collins: No, I think the right, despite what people would say today in the nineties and eighties had a form of cancellation. They would say that this individual satanic or this individual is, you know, they'd use different words to label them, but they had a form of saying, oh, this company does this or this, therefore we won't do business with them.

And I think especially children's media was very afraid of crossing these boundaries for a very long time. Yeah. And I think that the woke's more borrowed these existing tools, but implemented them much more effectively. And I think what we might be seeing here is big business is a very susceptible to bullying more so than it is looking for market demand.

Simone Collins: And Okay.

So could this be an [00:09:00] issue of larger bureaucracies? having basically the sensitivity to criticism and that's why they're more subject to whatever the mainstream zeitgeist is because they have compliance departments, they have lawyers, they have marketing departments that are capable of hearing criticism and freaking out about it, whereas smaller organizations just don't, literally don't have an ear or an eye to that kind of thing.

Malcolm Collins: I wonder if it might even be that the type of person who works at a large company is more sensitive to criticism.

Simone Collins: When

Malcolm Collins: I think about our friend groups, you know, our job basically with the pronatalist movement is attracting criticism in a way that furthers the message of the movement.

Simone Collins: Right.

Malcolm Collins: So we're always going around baiting media sources to try to get them to talk about us.

And then we use that to draw attention to our cause areas in ways that are usually pretty effective. Like, honestly, we've been enormously effective. I don't think that there's been a public media figure. That has been as effective as us at either rising or catching attention in the last five years.

Which I, I [00:10:00] take, I take great pride in. But this has given us a unique understanding of who has freaked out about knowing us or being publicly associated with us. And the people at startups or venture capital firms or small companies, they give us a hint. They're like,

Simone Collins: okay, fine.

Malcolm Collins: The bureaucrats who work or run very large companies are extremely scared of being associated with us.

Yeah. They are extremely scared of criticism. And I wonder if a fear of failing, which is I think where this fear of criticism comes from, failing in other people's eyes or being seen as not good enough, associates with working in large companies.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, I, I could see basically not being willing to stand for anything personally and being really afraid of being subject to criticism would make a job at another company where you can always blame it on someone higher up the line.

Blame the company, blame your manager, et cetera. Yeah, [00:11:00] yeah, I could see that. And you could argue that, Also, people with a bigger external locus of control are more likely to be drawn to larger organizations and bureaus. Actually, I'm

Malcolm Collins: having an understanding here. Both of these types of people aren't just drawn to large companies.

They're also drawn to academia. Because they're both career tracks where it's for people who are more afraid of failing. They don't want to go outside their bubble. They're just like, okay, this is what I've been doing for the past four years. I'm just going to keep doing it if I can maybe make some money from doing it.

And they're very sensitive. They have a lot of status anxiety. They're very sensitive to the status the job gives them. And so not just a fear of media criticism, but potentially a fear of criticism within these organizations makes the memetic virus spread faster within the organization.

Simone Collins: That, that's quite interesting.

Yeah. Well, but then aren't you really ultimately just arguing the same thing that you've been arguing since the beginning, which is that memetic viruses are [00:12:00] more likely to In these large bureaucracies and maybe the refinement you've gotten.

Malcolm Collins: I don't think that the, the nineties version of like, evangelical mom was really a memetic virus.

I think that they like evangelicalism didn't spread through companies in the same way woke as them spread through companies. I think that it, what we are seeing is, is, is two things happening simultaneously. You have this phenomenon that I'm talking about with people more sensitive to criticism working in these large bureaucracies.

On top of them also being more sensitive to like, when a Guardian article says something mean about me, my , sorry. people in my life freak out about it. And then we always get the email of, Oh my God, how could this happen again? You must be devastated right now. And I'm like, bro, the guardian doesn't even have a Twitter account anymore.

Like, what are you talking about? Nobody reads this. It just establishes credibility for stuff like Wikipedia articles and getting in front of like a few other people's faces in terms of expanding our reach. [00:13:00] Yeah, that's, that's my thought on that. But I'd also note how wokeism spread within companies because we had somebody talking, we were talking to about this and I hadn't realized it, but it's something that is really interesting, which is, and I note here, by the way, anybody who wants to hire us as consultants to anti DEI a fire company, now that we're stepping back from our day job, absolutely happy to help with that.

Stanford MBA, Cambridge degree in technology policy, run major companies in the past will work inexpensively if we're helping. Make a company strong. Well, we'll even run for the work for a percentage of the increase in profits we can make you within certain margins or the cost savings we can give you.

Cause that's the great thing about taking DEI out of a company. You're only saving money, but. It was when the DEI stuff started, what companies did, like, they were like, Oh, I have to put this, like, whatever person that fits all of these criteria into the company. All right. Well, we don't want to put them in like engineering and we don't want to put them in like making [00:14:00] products.

Cause like they actually need to be good to have those jobs. So where can we put them? Well, HR, like people don't really do anything in HR.

Simone Collins: Often marketing to communications, PR compliance.

Malcolm Collins: And what they didn't realize when they were putting these people in HR and compliance but specifically HR is where I think the initial crop was dumped is that now these people had control over hiring and they started to exclusively hire and heavily affect the hiring processes around these DEI objectives which quickly DEI ified the entire companies.

And in addition to that, As as simona's talking about you have things like marketing becoming heavily dei What happens when marketing becomes heavily dei then you'll have them Leave twitter when elon buys it for example because they think that they can use the company at the cudgel even when their customer base they're still on eggs.

They're still on these these platforms [00:15:00] and They, but they don't care, like, because they're not in this for, at the end of the day, making money they are now part of the, the DEI cordyceps virus and they just want to expand the reach of the virus. What are your thoughts on that mechanism for how the spread was in companies?

Simone Collins: Yeah, I mean that, I think that's what we've largely understood to be reality for a long time. It's, it's, it's funny how things happen. I think people think of arguments around the woke mind virus or the people on the left or the people on the right as, as being this, this all being a very concerted organized effort that happened on purpose where a bunch of people got together in a room and we're like, ah, yes, this is how we shall slowly take everything over.

And there are even people who are like, oh, let's conspire to do this, but it rarely works. Conspiracy is rarely Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: and we've been involved in conspiracies. We've been involved in organizations that [00:16:00] conspiratorial. People are just, there's not that many, like, truly effective, independently thinking humans for a conspiracy to be effective.

People are not that many. What is

Simone Collins: interesting, and this is why I think your interest in governance is so crucial, is that just, The correctly misplaced incentive or the, the misplacement of a particular agent within a particular area. It's like putting a seed crystal into a substance. It's

Malcolm Collins: much worse than a conspiracy in a way.

Yeah, suddenly everything can just.

Simone Collins: Yeah, like in a way that no human, no exerted effort could, could make something happen. What happens for example, when, when you're tempering chocolate you'll put. A seed, like essentially a seed crystal, like a piece of chocolate that has been properly tempered in with a batch of chocolate, and then you raise it to a certain temperature.

And the idea is that your,

Malcolm Collins: she used to work at a chocolate factory.

Simone Collins: Your one seed crystal will then help the rest of the [00:17:00] chocolate snap into the right crystal. Crystalline structure. And I, that's kind of how I see this happening is that once you get, for example, this certain culture in HR, it's able to make the rest of the company snap into that crystalline structure in a way that doesn't require you to go through each and every single department.

It just kind of happens naturally. And almost all at once, and in a very powerful way,

Malcolm Collins: HR is the department that can fire you that determines your salary moving up and down within the organization. As soon as you control that was in an organization, you control the incentives that the organization has.

And people will want to D E I F I themselves to ensure that they can move up or down. And I think something that you were talking about earlier, like the conspiratorial mindset towards this stuff, I think a lot of that is actually downstream of humanities. And I think that this is really important when I'm, when I'm interacting with people.

And when I typically, I'm like, okay, this person is an idiot. When they start to see like [00:18:00] big agentic conspiracies everywhere, because they're not an idiot, but The mistake that they're making, and it's, it's an inbuilt human mistake, is humans are evolutionarily programmed to see the world in terms of theory of minds.

Yes. So we look for theory of minds in everything. We look for theory of minds in mass groups of humans. We look for theory of minds Oh,

Simone Collins: you'll see faces in tree stumps and in wall plugs. We just think, yeah, it's very hard not to humanize things.

Malcolm Collins: When you, yeah, when you see action, you're not thinking, okay, how could this action have evolved?

I. e. how could iterations of this action have been better at replicating themselves than non iterations of this action? Which is actually why most things happen. Most actual conspiracies are not agentic. They are not one individual attempting to impart of a brand conspiracy, fool a bunch of other individuals.

It is just a self replicating thing. And. So it's better rather than

Simone Collins: to look at. Who wants this or who's trying to orchestrate [00:19:00] this. I think it's better to look instead of the incentives and where our incentives align.

Malcolm Collins: Right. But I think that, and people can say that this is the, like a kinder interpretation around this, but it very much isn't.

If you look at what the implication is. Hmm. If this is the mimetic virus, like that cordyceps virus, which infects ants and then makes them just spread the fungus. Once an individual is infected, they must be surgically removed from the company. There is no amelioration. There is no cure. The only cure is cut once cut deep.

You have to remove the cancer.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I haven't heard of anyone deescalating from a position that is like, yeah. Have you ever heard of

Malcolm Collins: a woke person genuinely deescalating? I don't think I ever have.

Simone Collins: Yeah, well, I guess what I, here's what I could envision happening because what we're doing is here with corporate America.

We're contrasting. The [00:20:00] point at which it was sort of a strongly influenced by conservative Christian American culture of like the 90s to now when it's has been very influenced by Wilk coach culture, the urban monoculture when. When that Christian conservative subculture suddenly became the minority in corporate America, that didn't mean that the people who used to enact witch hunts as Christian conservatives no longer existed at organizations, it meant that they kind of realized that they were outnumbered, and they had to go underground, as it were, or just be tolerant.

And I think that that's more what happens. It's not, these people can exist and not do damage As long as they know that they don't have a mandate and they don't have impunity. I think the only instance

Malcolm Collins: From the christians

Simone Collins: really? Okay. I I disagree

Malcolm Collins: with you. So convince me i'll explain why so first you got to put these people in two camps who can be ameliorated is the people who [00:21:00] just sort of like Believed mainstream media and then one day we're like, oh s**t I'm being lied to not like the torchbearers but the people I think a lot of people like us jd vance a lot of these people who are just like You They believed the mainstream narrative and then one day they're like, Oh, you guys are all against us.

That, that community I think can, can reform. The problem with the wokes is they don't have families. They don't actually need to make money. They would rather enforce the message and self indulge in a victim mindset than actually make money or keep their job. Whereas it was the Christians they, you know, they might've been an angelic mom, you know, they had five kids to feed back home, you know?

Speaker 4: I know this much better place down the street. The girls are cleaner, the liquor ain't watered down. Sure, and you get kickbacks. Hey, man, I got five kids to feed.

Speaker 5: Take him to the dentist.

Malcolm Collins: I got to put a Benny thing here. I got five kids to feed. But they yeah, so they, they had to worry about losing their jobs in a way that [00:22:00] I think that the wokes don't. And they also had to worry about feeding themselves. You see, it was a woke, if you're a Christian and you lose your job, you take some level of personal responsibility for that.

Even if you were, you know, trying to push a Christian agenda if you're a woke person and you lose your job, you take no, you don't feel like you messed up in any sense.

Simone Collins: If anything, you sue and expect to win a ton of money. You're

Malcolm Collins: the hero. Of the story, right? You know, and I, I think that one thing, one thing I will note, and this is a surprise to me about companies is after this Trump election cycle, which has appeared very different than previous election cycles last time Trump won, there was this broad perception of like, The pollsters got it all wrong, and you know, the pollsters didn't know what they were doing, but like, broadly, everything else is still fine.

Like, society still works the way we used to think it did. This time, it's almost acted like a mandate against The infected cultural institutions more broadly We think of msnbc being sold now [00:23:00] with things like disney going back on to x slash twitter With a lot of rollback in woke policy that I didn't think I would see I am actually surprised How quickly business has turned on these individuals now Are they still putting out media that's been in production for the past five years?

It has like pronouns like Oh god, one of the ones that's actually You Interested in, in trying out recently. It was something like

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx): About is the game I was thinking of.

Malcolm Collins: Awakend or something. Anyway, I'll, I'll add it in post, but it turned out to have pronouns in it. And I'm like, I'm not going to play that. Like, I'm not going to do that.

Cause I know

Simone Collins: that's inertia to your point,

Malcolm Collins: right? What? That is the product of inertia. I think where we are seeing business able to make retreats, we are seeing it in many areas I did not anticipate. So. Business might be correcting faster than I thought. I'd also note here. About another argument I've heard which is very interesting is that business went woke because woke culture is more [00:24:00] consumerist

Simone Collins: It is I guess yeah I mean the whole thing the the core of of woke culture and the urban monoculture involves atomization and divorcing the human from their family from their community and You So suddenly, instead of having friends, you have a therapist and you have social media and a bunch of things that you buy.

Can I just say how

Malcolm Collins: much I love that? Instead of having a friend, you have a therapist.

Simone Collins: I mean, but that's what's happening. Right. And so, yeah, it does. It basically says you it's taught all of these original sources of these things that you used to get are toxic. Now you buy it. And to not buy these things is to be a conspiracy theorist, raw milk drinking homesteader who believes in a bunch of crazy things and doesn't vaccinate their kids like, and they're seen as crazy.

And I was thinking about this when you [00:25:00] suddenly were concerned about food dies last night of, like, now, even when a totally normal person is suddenly kind of concerned about processed foods. There's this feeling about them, like, oh, you're one of those, like, you're one of those off the grid, like, only eats, you know, raw eggs and, and by the way, like, I'm super into that, but it, it is categorized by the urban monoculture is sort of a crazy off the grid.

Conspiracy theorist. So yeah, that does make sense. So you're not going to and also you're not going to make money from those people. So if you're a business and you're marketing to someone, are you going to market to the person who does their best to avoid hyper processed foods? Who does their best to avoid toxic?

Social media, addictive games and, and things like that. Or do you go for the person who has fully surrendered themselves to operative condition and dopamine? Heads? Yeah. I mean, conservative culture

Malcolm Collins: says, [00:26:00] you know, restrict yourself, you know, have a degree of self control. And those are bad consumers.

They're, they're,

Simone Collins: they're not repeat purchasers. They're, they're not sticky. They're not addicted. Like that's terrible. You're right. That's a bad investment. That is, I think it's the most convincing thing you've actually said to me so far in terms of like why they have chosen to double down so hard on this audience is this is the most trigger and spend happy audience and an audience that is not woke is far more likely to not buy things.

That's convincing.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, look at the way our family buys things. We tried to buy just a few things that are very reusable. And I even look at the us when contrasted with much poorer friends that we have, they buy so much more than us, like,

Simone Collins: yeah,

Malcolm Collins: it actually like causes Simone to like almost panic when she sees the way that other people who were friends with who are much less wealthy than us spend money.

They like actually like go out to like McDonald's. They like, actually, [00:27:00] like, buy, like, snacks at like Dude, these days,

Simone Collins: anyone who goes to a restaurant, I'm like, How can you financially, like, survive this? This is Yeah, I'll never financially recover

Malcolm Collins: from this.

Oh my God. I am never going to financially recover from this.

Simone Collins: Every single time someone goes out. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: every single time we go out.

R. I. P. When was the last time you went out to a restaurant, Simone?

Simone Collins: Hold on, I know this. Well, when we were at Hereticon, but that was included.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, so when somebody else wasn't paying. When was the last time? Can you even remember? It must have been a year ago, at least.

Simone Collins: Like, when you and I just did it because we weren't in a business.

Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: when did I pay for a meal that you ate? Oh, my birthday at the hibachi place. Yes! Your birthday! So that was pretty recent. Yes. Yes. Okay, before my birthday,

Simone Collins: when? [00:28:00] You, you got takeout for yourself. We cooked for the whole family. Yeah, no, no, no,

Malcolm Collins: I'm saying you.

Simone Collins: Okay, me? Huh. Yeah, I, I honestly cannot,

Malcolm Collins: I could not.

It must have been more than a year ago. I'm just pointing out that I think a lot of people don't get, like they think this stuff is normal and it's not normal if you're from a conservative cultural group. It is a disgusting amount of overspending that is genuinely nauseating.

Simone Collins: Well, and this is, this is how spending used to be.

People think that I guess in the 1950s there was just some era of abundance. People were eating shitty canned food. Like when you actually look at what are considered gourmet recipes at the time, it is stuff that. Like even poor people living on food assistance would not bother to eat it. It's stuff I served food in a tenderloin San Franciscan food bank.

 It was better than like the best 1950s had to offer. People don't realize like the level of luxury that they're [00:29:00] living with now. And like, if

Malcolm Collins: you look at like good night, it's like a dinner party stuff.

Simone Collins: You would like go out of your way to like serve to the fancy your boss, you know, who's coming over for dinner.

Malcolm Collins: It can be jello, so you'd have like some, some fruit in some jello and then you have some like, I'll put things on screen here. It is quite disgusting, but yeah, I'll

Simone Collins: see. I can share some of my like videos on cooking. So anyway, that was the nice people like, Oh, like, Oh, we live in such and also going out to eat was a very big deal for a whole family to do that.

And maybe, maybe a, I don't know. Young people courting or something might go out. It's like a, Ooh, I'm really shamed.

Malcolm Collins: Disgusting signs of opulence is smart, casual restaurants being branded as like a a regular thing that people should.

Simone Collins: What, what a conspiracy. Yeah, I guess that's, that was sort of, maybe what we're seeing is the tail end of this era in which American families were gaslit into believing that That [00:30:00] eating out regularly was normal.

That insanely opulent birthday parties were normal. That

Malcolm Collins: Oh my god, birthday parties for kids are insane. Why would you do that? Why would you give a

Simone Collins: child a party? Well, but even now, like, what's so normalized, and I see this, not just among influencers, I'm just saying our friends, people buying cakes for birthday parties?

Like, b***h, make a cake. Like it can be a box cake. It, this is not hard and it doesn't even have to be good. I mean, I've had so many disaster cakes that, you know, because we're cooking at altitude or with like borrowed pans or something didn't work out. And we just turned it into a construction cake that like, you know, it's a pile of like cake dirt, but it's fine.

Like P but people are buying and these are, these are expensive cakes. There's fondant involved. They're multi tiered cakes. These are, and that's just the cake. Like, what else are they getting? Some people are renting decorations.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, by the way, just so people know how we do [00:31:00] toys with our kids. So, we do do the future police where they take away the kids toys, but we don't give them all back.

In fact, we regularly clear out all but about a quarter of their toys. We put them in the attic and then we wrap them and give them back to them or younger kids later on. It's great because they treat

Simone Collins: them like, sometimes they remember them from before, sometimes they don't. But they're always really happy to have them again, and they're, they're otherwise ignored.

It's not like they miss them, and if they miss them and ask for them, we give them back.

Malcolm Collins: But they typically don't miss them or notice them, but if they do, we give them back. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I don't, I can't remember the last time they've asked for something back.

Malcolm Collins: Which is no, but it's a good system. And I think that so many people, they just are like, Oh, that wouldn't, you know, whatever.

Like,

Simone Collins: yeah, I

Malcolm Collins: think that the consumerist thing might be part of it. Is it the urban monoculture was to an extent crafted or a partnership with big business to create this belief that if you want something, and this is one of the things I've noticed [00:32:00] again,

Simone Collins: you're using language that implies intentionality when, no, it was.

That they clicked together, that this, this on, on, on the one part, this mimetic virus that promised instant gratification and never having to say no to yourself and never having to do something unpleasant in the moment. Plus an industry that profited from that mindset. Like, of course, they're going to love each other.

Like they're going to

Malcolm Collins: be best friends, of course, works for Doritos. You'd have like the Hayes by Doritos and Dunkin Donuts. That is beautiful brought to

Simone Collins: you by Doritos. Yeah, basically. And now there's Heroin Chic brought to you by Ozempic. Now, yeah, it's sort of this really interesting backlash. I think the more interesting question now Is now that there is this backlash to the urban monoculture, and yet organizations are going to have to still figure out how to make money going forward.

What are they going to do? I mean, already there's a lot of commentary online about what highly [00:33:00] processed food companies are going to do in the face of becoming widespread because people just aren't having the same. Cravings for highly processed and like snack foods. So they normally would. So now what do they sell?

Another they're trying to remarket a bunch of things. I don't know if that's even necessary. Maybe we've already reached this point at which people are so morally, not morally, mentally bankrupt, like sort of incapable of, of self control that it doesn't matter.

Malcolm Collins: By the way, Simone, I think I remembered when you last went to a restaurant, it

Simone Collins: was when

Malcolm Collins: we were speaking at that conference in Vegas.

And I took you to that Chinese restaurant and we ordered that dish that we split and the waiter shamed us for buying too deep a dish and splitting it. Do you remember that? That was, what, a year ago? That was at

Simone Collins: the

Malcolm Collins: Bellagio. I

Simone Collins: don't know if that counts because it was

Malcolm Collins: a business trip. Yeah, I mean, it was an expense to the foundation, so

Simone Collins: So, then it doesn't count.

Yeah, but, if it's a [00:34:00] business trip, you don't I mean, we wouldn't have spent that money to buy Two dishes in personally, but especially if you're traveling for business, you should be respectful of the business. It's paying for the thing. And then only buy one entree. That's what we did the entire time that like last personal vacation we took, which was in Switzerland.

And we're like, oh, s**t, it's expensive here. We're going to share one meal. Going forward and it was great

Malcolm Collins: because I wanted to like normalize this because they don't understand the way people actually lived in the fifties. If you are trying to be trad, being trad is being frugal. Okay. Yeah. And this is the problem is they don't realize this.

They think that being trad is a life of abundance and it is.

Simone Collins: There's also the, this theme that keeps coming up in Hannah's children, the super pronatalist book that's actually super pronatalist in which. Parents of five plus children are interviewed. And basically it's a book compiling their interviews.

Very interesting. A common theme that [00:35:00] comes up is in response to this question of what will we do when we have, how will we travel once we have five plus children? How will we get out of the house when we have four plus children or six plus children? And the answer is you just don't like that. You just don't do that anymore.

And guess what? Life goes on. Like, There's just kind of this expectation of like, but how will we make it work? How can we possibly do it? And once you realize that the answer is, yeah, just don't honestly, things get so much better. I, I love the trip thing.

Malcolm Collins: I don't know if people know this, but like even the concept of vacations or trips is like a fairly modern concept.

Simone Collins: Oh, and even the, even the. Scaled down 1950s version where you would go everywhere in your car and go car camping. Even that was very new because the highway system was a new invention. My dad. The concept that you had roads that you could travel across America, that was a big deal that you could actually drive across America suddenly.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so, so, so my dad, who's father was a congressman, [00:36:00] so like, not like an insignificant person and a, and a, a fairly wealthy individual, they'd go on one trip a year and it was a car trip to the Jersey Shore. Yes. They would just

Simone Collins: stay in one place the whole time. It wasn't freaking Disneyland. It was a house.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I think that we as a society are like, this is one of the, you know, you're talking to me about this. You're like, if I have a kid, how will I go to Milan? It's like, well, maybe you need to not be going to Milan. That's like a one

Simone Collins: sucks. What do you do? There's like one Da Vinci piece. some old churches, but like the rest is just mostly office buildings.

What are you,

Malcolm Collins: Milan? We say this is people who used to split our time between countries every other month.

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, I think that's, that's also, it's, it's kind of like, We're speaking from a position of so much privilege and abundance. It's kind of shitty for us to do like you being like, Oh, sex, isn't that interesting, but you've had so much sex.

Like

Malcolm Collins: very much the way I am was travel as well. I'm like, you've traveled so [00:37:00] much throughout your life. And now I'm like, ah, you, you guys shouldn't live for sex. Don't do that. I used to travel. As I said, I think it was. Early I said over a hundred countries. I actually think if I remember correctly, the number was over 50 countries, but over a large number of countries.

I've done tons and tons of travel. I've lived in like seven countries. And, and now I'm just like, ah, travel sucks. We still have a house in Peru.

Simone Collins: Do we need to sell? We need to get that

Malcolm Collins: sold. Come on. ASAP.

Simone Collins: Well, I'm trying the, we have to make all the plumbing repairs first and the. Do you go the house? Yes, we do.

We actually really, there's no hot water in the apartment right now. And the housing association is blocking Alexander from doing the fixes. But again, see, like, this is the thing is everyone's like, well, I want to have multiple houses someday. I want to have a vacation. No, you don't. Do you understand what a hassle that is?

I mean, one, there's a property taxes too. There's a constant repairs. Three, there's a cleaning for there's the travel between the places and all the money that you have to spend just doing the travel. And then, of course, [00:38:00] whenever you bring over more supplies from one country or another, there's import or export taxes that some customs person decides to, like, slap on you after digging through your suitcases.

This is not fun. I, yeah, it's, it's, it's super interesting to see. How just having a lot of kids and the forced frugality and groundedness that a large family forces on people causes them to become a lot happier. It seems in this book, and it could be, it doesn't have to be children. Like, it could be that, you know.

I don't know. Both of your legs are cut off or something or whatever. Like it could just be that you have been forced by law enforcement to not leave a certain radius around your house, but then suddenly your life gets a lot better because you're not doing all this stuff that ultimately doesn't make you happy anyway.

I just find that interesting as a concept, but yes. Okay. The big thing that I'm taking away from this [00:39:00] conversation is that a big reason why The urban monoculture paired so well with corporate America was that they mutually benefited from reinforcing instant gratification and consumerism.

Malcolm Collins: And. How else is a flag company supposed to stay in business if you don't change it every year?

What was the The colonizer's flag. Oh. The new gay pride flag. They

Simone Collins: haven't updated it recently, have they?

Speaker: Sales are way down. No one's buying American flags anymore. We had some success when we jumped on the Pride bandwagon. But now that it's a settled issue, there's just no demand for flags anymore. GuYs, I've got it! Hm? What if we updated the gay flag for trans people? Woah [00:40:00]

Oh,

Simone Collins: Actually, they haven't.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I feel like They need to add like

Simone Collins: a new, like, could be a pattern layer onto the end of it.

Malcolm Collins: I feel like they ran out of new communities to add.

Simone Collins: That's why I said they need

Malcolm Collins: to add the keffiyeh.

Oh yes, to make it Muslim too. Yes. No, no, no, no. Specifically to make it like Hamas coded. Like a big Muslim sign on the center of the gay pride flag. You know they'll do that one day, you know. Like the star?

Simone Collins: The, like, sort of, the moon. The crescent moon thing. Yeah, the crescent moon. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I can, I can, no, no, to make it extra good though, it would have to be like a crescent moon, like inside a star of David to be like, no, no, no, we're inclusive.

We're, we're not, they would not know. They hate the Jews. No, no, but like, I just feel like it would be so extra offensive in a way that actually works with the colonizer flag. If you were to do that, because already, like, if, if we're slapping that on, like,

Malcolm Collins: no, we need to literally would put like a little X in the star of David.

They, they, they, they honestly would.

Simone Collins: All [00:41:00] right,

Malcolm Collins: Simone. I love you to death. I have enjoyed talking with you and I am so glad to be married to you and I am so lucky that you are a woman who seems to enjoy frugality to an extent that I find frustrating when it comes to buying things for our kids.

Simone Collins: What? I let you buy the bouncy house today. How could you say that?

Malcolm Collins: You got it. Well, so this is the way I was doing the cost per kid. It was 25. Okay. We have four kids. Oh, no, 50 per kid. 50 per kid for a permanent play thing is not that bad, especially considering we plan to have more kids

Simone Collins: permanent. Have you met our children?

I think it better have patches because that thing is getting stabbed.

Malcolm Collins: got a little indoor bouncy house at BJ's for the kids. But I'm like, look, I look at what I pay for them to do things on weekends, like, go to various kids places [00:42:00]

Simone Collins: and

Malcolm Collins: 50 per kid is, you know, that's like four weeks of stuff if we can get them better than that, especially in the winter when they can't go outside to play.

Yeah, I

Simone Collins: think that's big. That's what convinced me is I want them to still be able to exercise and get all their energy out in the winter. And this is going to be great for

that.

I love you. I love you too. Good day, sir. Good day! Where does that come from? What does I said good day? Like, is that just a trope?

 You lose! Good day, sir!

Malcolm Collins: It's a good day.

Simone Collins: Said good day.

Malcolm Collins: I don't know, maybe it comes from talking to British people. .

Simone Collins: No, it's like, it just, it, it comes up so much. I wonder if it's like that trope of like, they always use the, like they throw in the sound of that guy going, ah, when he falls off. Something like that sound effect being used and it's like you have to Simon all anyway.

Bye B bye bye.

Malcolm Collins: I'm going to the next room. Okay. Okay.

Speaker 6: Nobody [00:43:00] else can go faster because Julie has to go first. I love you guys.

An analytical exploration of an observed phenomenon where creative professionals experience a significant decline in the quality of their work after gender transition, examining case studies of the Wachowski sisters (Matrix series) and Dragon Age: Veilguard. This video explores potential biological, psychological, and social factors behind this pattern, including hormonal changes, creative adaptations, and social dynamics.

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. I am excited today to be talking to you about a phenomenon.

that I call the Wachowski effect, because it is something I have noticed in media. And we will be using two prominent examples of this. One is the Matrix series and the other is the Dragon Age series and, and Veilguard specifically as a particularly prominent example of this. In which a previously really talented creative or writer becomes really, really terrible after undergoing a gender transition into a woman.

And when I say they become really, really terrible, I don't mean conservatives start hating their work. I mean Like, everyone starts hating their work. And I want to explore both the timelines of this, so people can see, like, okay, so for example, with Veilguard, oh my god, I [00:01:00] was just watching some scenes from it, and it is so painful.

But we will go through them. You don't even know, like, it's not bad. It actively hurts to consume where, like, I'm not even going to play the clips because if I play full clips of these scenes in this episode, People will stop watching this show just because of the pain it's delivering to you, the viewer.

Speaker: Oh, um. Ah, s**t. They, they're still holding it. Sorry. What are you doing? Pulling a barv. Oh, okay. A barv? There's not always time for big, drawn out apologies. So, when one of us screws up and we know we've screwed up, we do a quick ten to put it right. Pulling above.

Speaker 6: It is a reminder that through struggle you find what you are. And you have never done so. Evatash has. They Are stronger than you will [00:02:00] ever be!

Simone Collins: Yeah, like even, even an ally would find this painful and not something they want to watch. Yes and to

Malcolm Collins: understand the effects of this, because we've seen a lot of woke games fail this year. This isn't quite as bad as something like, oh, what was the last one that we talked about?

Concord But like just a horrible failure that we talked about.

But it, it was bad and people knew it was going to be woke and this was a successful franchise before. So we've got different estimates of sales for this.

Microphone (2- ATR2100x-USB Microphone): Since recording this, we've gotten more accurate numbers in,

Microphone (2- ATR2100x-USB Microphone)-1: It looks like it's pulled in about 63 million in earnings or about one fifth of what it needs to break even.

Malcolm Collins: it's it's current player count for peak daily is around 36, 000 players. There, so. Only, like, three episodes. Honestly, based

Simone Collins: on the footage you shared with me, even just the character design, which honestly super yucks my yum, but just the, I, it's impressive that people [00:03:00] can work through that.

Speaker 2: So, I'm non binary.

What does that mean?

Huh, I have big fingers. That

Speaker: means I don't feel like a man or a woman. If you are neither a man nor a woman, then what are you?

Speaker 2: Non binary. I just said, and I'm going to use they instead of she from now

Microphone (2- ATR2100x-USB Microphone)-2: Just a note here. Okay, this is a mistake I had made throughout the recording. I assumed that this individual, from the way that they looked was a non passing trans woman, but they are actually a non passing , non-binary individual that looks and codes male.

Microphone (2- ATR2100x-USB Microphone)-3: But was born a woman.

Microphone (2- ATR2100x-USB Microphone)-2: , I suspect the reason for this is that the writers of this are non passing trans women and they identifying more with a biological woman who is non passing nonbinary.

So they are basically attempting to write themselves into the story as if they had been born a woman.

Simone Collins: Like they're [00:04:00] really trying this feels like I there was that year when I just had norovirus like three times in a row and I was just constantly at food poisoning, but I'm the kind of person who just eats through food poisoning. So I don't not eat and just like that feeling of, like, you're incredibly sick.

You are constantly vomiting, but you keep eating the food. That is what I imagine playing this game is like, like, you, you are like, you're still. It

Malcolm Collins: is eating vomits level appetizer. Yeah, actually it is worse than Concord or even Dustborn.

When I was watching it, because I, I watched like video playthroughs of Dustborn and I found it cringe in like a funny way occasionally and like the main character was super hateable and manipulated all her friends and everything. And that's another thing about. The characters in this is the characters that are supposed to be woke representations are genuinely awful, awful, awful.

Yeah. What is this? [00:05:00] I will play like a bit of a scene here so you can understand how disconnected these people are from reality. Where the character that's supposed to be trans representation her mother tries really hard to be accepting of her and she's just a complete b***h about it.

Speaker: Under the Qun, the term for one whose gender does not match the one given to them at birth was a Qunothloc. Perhaps you are like that. Why do you have to keep picking at it? Why can't you just be happy for me? Ebra. So I'm supposed to struggle with who I am? Even if I don't feel like I fit?

Speaker 2: Even if I feel wrong?

Speaker: No. You've misunderstood.

Speaker 2: Then say it better! Why am I never enough for you

Malcolm Collins: And then, After her mother dies, she takes her mother's horn.

So like part of her bones and wears it as like a thing, even though she knows her mother would disapprove of this. And this is one of the things that her mother really hated was her adopting these practices that were of [00:06:00] a people in a culture she did not identify with.

Speaker 8: You're her mother's horn.

You wear it as jewelry, like the Rivaini do.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Ravaini, where are their stories?

Speaker 8: She would

Speaker 2: like it. She'd be so pissed. She would.

Simone Collins: Well, and didn't one of the clips that you'd sent to me, perhaps my memory deceives me?

But the player selected the option of just don't say anything. And yet the character then came on to someone else in a really aggressive, creepy way.

Malcolm Collins: Oh no. Yeah. So if you're like a female character, this is actually like, to me, it shows how blind. So I think for a lot of lesbian women, the absolute horror.

Is some non passing Six five woman pressing them against the wall and putting them in a situation where they feel super threatened and this woman doesn't realize this person is not recognizing them as a woman at [00:07:00] all that they look like a giant man to them. And there is a Scene in the game where she's supposed to be hitting on someone and she puts what can be a, a petite woman in this scenario really aggressively without them actively consenting.

Speaker 12: Are you trying to have sex with me? Wow, you know, in my daydreams this is where you lean over me and slap the wall. Quick think about us having sex.

Speaker 13: So now we need to figure out if it's cash lock or tomlock Tomlock is serious. Like you want to grab that and taste its neck right by the collarbone

Simone Collins: No, but specifically in the gameplay. And if memory serves, the players like recording this demo selected the option of say nothing, like basically don't escalate this further. Yeah. And then the character nevertheless, like despite the players non consent escalates the situation further. And you're like, no,

Malcolm Collins: no, no, no, no.

Everything about this is written by [00:08:00] somebody who seems to have no idea how flirting works. So there's another scene where they're like, Oh You gave me this gift and they're like, yeah, I like, really like you for like your talents and your other talents and you smell really good. Like, I love that's

Speaker 33: We had a request for the defense to the Joe Biden hair snip. So, if you have some creepy dude, it doesn't have to be Joe Biden, alright? If you have some creepy dude who comes up behind you and it's like, you know, making you feel really awkward touching in a way you don't really think is cool and kind of sniffing your hair, it's kind of weird, right?

It's a little weird. okay? So, what we're gonna do is, well, one thing you could do is you could just, boom, headbutt him, right?

Simone Collins: The scene I'm talking about where the to say, don't say anything more.

And then it selects that option. And she says more and it's like,

Speaker 3: I got you a thing.

Speaker 5: Oh, [00:09:00] Tosh. It's gorgeous. The stitching.

Speaker 2: Yeah, because I appreciate your skills. At archery.

Speaker 5: Thank you, Tosh. That's really sweet.

Speaker 2: You're really nice. And, um, you smell good. Oh. Thank you? Really good.

Speaker 5: Hey, Tosh. Do you wanna come with me to break this in?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Like Now?

Speaker 6: Of course, now. Oh, good. Let's go.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, and then, and then keep it on. We say, she, this is a non passing trans person. So it looks like a giant, like, I

Simone Collins: don't know. If I were asked as someone, I would, I would just say that it was a very ugly woman, like an [00:10:00] extremely ugly female, but I just think that their entire kind is extremely ugly.

So, but like, I don't know. But anyway, no,

Malcolm Collins: no, no. So what I love in that scene is she's then rewarded with the other person who she's flirting with being like, yeah, let's have sex right now. Yeah. What? This is not, and, and, and here people can be like, oh, this is just a bad writer. And this is where the Wachowski effect becomes really important.

Because what other games did this person wrote? Was it, was a writer on? They were a writer on Mass Effect. They're a writer on Dragon Age Origins. They're a writer on Mass Effect 2. I think one of the best written games I've ever played. Mass Effect 2, Layer of the Shadow Broker. They're a writer.

They're the senior writer on Mass Effect 3. Okay, so we have every expectation that they should

Simone Collins: be amazing.

Malcolm Collins: Okay Mass Effect 3, From the Ashes, they were a writer. Mass Effect 3, Leviathan, they were a writer. Mass Effect 3, Citadel, they were a writer. Dragon Age Inquisition, they were a writer. Dragon Age Inquisition, Jaws of Hakkon, they were a writer.

Dragon Age Inquisition, Trespasser, they were the lead writer. And then they were the lead writer on [00:11:00] Veilguard. And somebody can be like, Do you know when they transitioned? Do know when they transitioned, because we can find pictures of them, and I'll put one on screen here but specifically this individual, hold on transitioned they transitioned in 2020, so after their last other writing and before Veilguard, if you're looking for when the witch house came out, So, for people who don't know, the people who wrote the original matrix Malcolm,

Simone Collins: Wachowski sisters, Jesus.

Malcolm Collins: Sorry, the Wachowski sisters. They were originally called the Wachowski brothers when they wrote the first matrix, and that's what I know them as, but the Wachowski sisters now wrote the Sorry, if it was Dragon Age, I'd have to do push ups.

So whenever you upset this particular Very physically imposing character. They force you to do push ups, basically and at first they the person accepts it like sort of willingly where one person is like, oh, I accidentally misgendered you so i'll do push ups and they have a total two minute cut scene on very very uncomfortable cut scene on accidentally misgendering somebody and [00:12:00] then

Simone Collins: I don't know.

I kind of like this. You get buff and they get lame. Whatever.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, because they are physically and intimidating you into a physical act of submission. That

Simone Collins: is

Malcolm Collins: the

Simone Collins: heart. You are prostrate on the

Malcolm Collins: floor. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. This is what a trans woman who wrote this thought was an appropriate thing to force women into a submissive position to them and prostrate themselves to them as a, as a like, this is very like a sexual play thing.

It's really messed up. And then there's another instance where a girl simply accidentally ate all the food and she pressures her into doing this.

Speaker 7: Who ate the last breaded cheese wand? Oh no, I'm sorry. I guess I thought, well, I don't know what.

Speaker 2: It's fine.

Speaker 7: No, no.

They're your favorite.

Speaker 6: Say you're sorry some more. That'll fix it.

Speaker 7: No, you're right. I'm pulling a barb. [00:13:00] One

Speaker 6: two Three

Malcolm Collins: And this is again, a, a woman who is physically very petite compared to her, who she very clearly physically dominates. But anyway, so if we're talking about like.

The Matrix series getting bad, it actually correlates with the transitions as well. So if you look at Lana Wachowski, formerly Larry she began her transition in 2000, 2003 was the beginning of the Matrix sequels. So if you look at the first thing of Matrix sequels, they got worse, but they weren't like dog, Duty quality like the sisters later work.

If you then look at when the second one transitioned, it was before cloud atlas. And then the next matrix trilogy which I think everyone basically agrees that everything from that point on that they did was just an absolute failure. And nobody was like, this isn't me saying like, it's bad.

Nobody watched any of this stuff. Like it objectively [00:14:00] bombed at a critical level.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I, so this is what I find very perplexing about this because I think Wachowski syndrome or the Wachowski effect is very real. But what also confuses me is that. One, there are plenty of female writers in history who have done great work that a lot of people of all genders have appreciated.

So it's not just that being female makes you terrible, although one could argue that women are better at certain types of writing. And then two, when, when there have been studies that look at differences in female performance, Based on where they are in their cycle, women who are experiencing surges of estrogen have a boost in intelligence.

Per, per my memory, I can try to dig up the research. So you can put it in the links. But my understanding is that more estrogen. Also correlates with more intelligence [00:15:00] in, in like across women's cycles. So within subjects, so that, so I'm like, well, then why why should a man who's getting more doses of estrogen, like, is it also like the, the additional drop in testosterone service?

So, for example, and I'm saying this just as a. Like personally, but we recently had my blood worked on like a really detailed blood panel and my testosterone is super low, like even for a woman. And we asked our doctor for some analysis on this and he pointed out that if you're taking exogenous estrogen, which I am I take similar doses that a trans woman would take because I'm screwed up for other reasons.

You, you may also see. A drop in your other endogenously produced hormones, including testosterone, because your body's like, oh, we're doing this externally now. Sweet. I'm going to take a vacation. See you later. And so maybe what's happening is that, okay, while they are getting a boost in estrogen, they're also not just seeing, like, [00:16:00] An easing up of testosterone, but like that plummeting and that can just screw up their brain in totally different ways in a way that like a normal woman who's having normal endogenous estrogen isn't seeing like a woman who's getting her own natural estrogen production probably also isn't going to have unusually low testosterone.

So I wonder if there's been any research on. Trans women on hormones.

Malcolm Collins: You've invalidated this theory already.

Simone Collins: I have? Okay.

Malcolm Collins: , so what you said that you may not have noticed you said is you have an unusually low level of testosterone. And yet you are peak performance in terms of, I've interacted with a lot of women, I've interacted with few women as smart and creative as you.

Simone Collins: So Well, no, no, no, but what we're also, what we're talking about, Matt, what I'm, what I'm trying to say is what may be happening. The point I'm making is that in addition to being on Exogenous estrogen, their levels of their former levels of testosterone may have plummeted in a way that damages them.

And my point also is that typically men who transition [00:17:00] to women when they're in the creative profession. They're still creating the same kind of content. It's not like once, then once they transition to women, they're like switched to writing romance novels and like soft stuff. Like they're staying in action films and video games and things like that.

And men are just better at writing that just like men are funnier. Like men are better in comedy, I would argue. Like maybe the problem is that with a lot of these creative people, they're not realizing that what they used to be good at. is going to be different now that they're on a different hormonal profile.

Malcolm Collins: And I, I think that this is the right answer. So, and I, and I think, well, it's not, it's, it's part of the right answer. I think there is a few right answers to this. So we're going to be uniquely charitable to trans people. I think the actual answer that we're looking at here is if you look at like Mass Effect 2, remember I said Mass Effect 2, I loved Mass Effect 2, writing.

Yeah. What makes Mass Effect 2 so good is it has very good lore. It has very good background lore, who the species are, how they interact, the background of the universe, what happened when humans first met [00:18:00] them, what are their, like, biology, everything like that. This is the type of stuff that a male brain specializes at writing.

This isn't interpersonal interactions, this isn't any of that stuff, right? Like, this isn't, when I think, like, what do females specialize at writing, I'm thinking, like, Slash fan fiction type stuff and then expand it, you know, your your 50 shades of gray type stuff your interview with a vampire type stuff they are not universes that are great because of their lore They are universes that are great because of their emotional pulls and characters

Simone Collins: I mean, I think of jk rowling and harry potter, which is one of the most popular fan universes That is a good lore universe.

I'll agree. Yeah But then you know, I also think like I struggle with this because i've been thinking about this as we've talked about it You Think about people like Ayn Rand, whose work comes across as pretty masculine to me. But then I also think about Ayn Rand's lifestyle. And I feel like she was probably a very high testosterone woman.

When you, when you look at how she lived her life, like wasn't she polyamorous too? It's a point

Malcolm Collins: Simone, that these [00:19:00] individuals rose to fame and prominence and honed their skill to optimize their brain as it existed before transition. No,

Simone Collins: exactly. And then transitioning, they don't realize that like. They don't have the hormonal profile for that anymore.

It's

Malcolm Collins: not just that they don't have the hormonal profile. They spent their entire adolescence, university career, and everything like that honing one instrument. And then somebody took that instrument away and gave them another instrument. They think that basically they spent their entire life learning to become a guitar expert.

And then somebody gave them like a, a mandolin and they're trying to play it like they're playing a guitar. And they, and they need to learn a completely new instrument. And the reality is, is that an individual who undergoes a gender transition may never be as good at creative tasks as somebody born into that gender because they just didn't undergo adolescence as that gender.

They didn't. Learn how to use that instrument the way somebody of that [00:20:00] gender would have over their entire lives Learn to use that instrument and this is even taking a transgender's person's perspective on this saying Yes, when you gender transition your brain actually transitions to be more like the brain of a female That being the case.

That means you're not going to know how to use it. Like you're just not going to have the expertise and so when I look at the mistakes I see Both in the matrix later matrix series and veil guard they are mistakes in the things that women are typically really good at which is interpersonal relationship stuff they are interpersonal relationship scenes that are done by women Terrifically poorly.

Like, like almost inhumanly poorly. Like, you wouldn't expect even a child to think it was a good idea to release this.

Simone Collins: Right.

Malcolm Collins: So that could be an explanation. What do you think of that theory?

Simone Collins: I don't see how you're making the connection, because you're arguing that you, you've gone from [00:21:00] as a trans woman, to being a trans woman.

A very masculine mindset to now a feminized mindset. And yet you're still trying to write masculine scenes. And theoretically they'd be better at that. Cause now they're on all this. That's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm

Malcolm Collins: saying. Consider the analogy I just use. It's like you have a new instrument.

Okay. They learned how to use a masculine brain to do what a masculine brain was good at doing. They now have a feminine brain. They need to. Completely learn writing from scratch. It's like they are now it's, it's not like they, they

Simone Collins: understand where the instrument like play out the instrument analogy, like they learned how to play violin now they're given a piano and they suck at playing piano.

Is that all you're saying?

Malcolm Collins: They spent 30 years of their life learning to play violin. Okay. Now they are a piano player. A piano was put in front of them. And they have to learn to play that piano as well as a world expert who has been training on the piano [00:22:00] for 30 years. You're just

Simone Collins: saying that like they lack the practice and that's why they suck.

It's not

Malcolm Collins: that they lack the practice. the practice. It's that they built expertise to become a world class player was a completely different instrument and then had the arrogance to assume that when they switched out that instrument, they would still be in a world class league and they just aren't. In fact, they're not just at not a world class league.

They're at a league that a five year old girl would be at because they've had a girl brain for five years and a five year old girl has had a girl brain for five years.

Simone Collins: So this reminds me a little bit of that similar phenomenon where you will have a Nobel Prize winner in physics or something, decide that they're going to enter nutrition influencing, and then they just like give the worst advice in the entire world and people believe them because they won a Nobel Prize and you're saying like, yeah, you know, the Wachowski sister is like amazing films and then people are like, okay.

Well, but now they're women. I [00:23:00] mean, it's not exactly the same situation, but yeah, essentially it's this, you, you assume that you're going to be able to do well in this new life because you're, you've, you've hit it out of the park so far and how you can't do wrong. And I guess you are looking at, in these cases that we're looking at with this video game and with Wachowski films.

People who may have gotten into their heads that and been surrounded by people who believe they can do no wrong because they've really done great work. And maybe that's also an issue. And maybe you don't see this at the level of. everyday people who are transitioning because they haven't been told that they walk on water and they aren't just assuming that everything they touch turns to gold.

So maybe they're not so Well, I

Malcolm Collins: don't know. So I've actually seen this with and it's, it's, it's a really distinct thing you see. Cause I, I have a lot of, you know, trans friends who have transitioned and people would be like, Oh my God, you know, you say critical things about like gender transition and trans people in sports.

You can't possibly have trans friends. And it's like, not all trans people are that brainwashed. There's like some [00:24:00] real. Trans people out there who are normal, non creepy people and I think that when I look at the posts and when I look at the content that they make, one common complaint they have is everyone around them, especially if they're coders, begins to act as if they don't know what they're talking about anymore.

And their understanding of this is, They all think, and all the trans women I know, when I talk to them, they're like, Oh, everyone thinks I don't know how to code anymore. They think that this is a sign of discrimination against women. When it really might be that they're just becoming shittier coders.

And they are, and I think that similar with Veil Guard, something about this happening makes these individuals. Unable to see that criticism may be justified. So when you look at Veilguard and you look at these interpersonal interactions, you're like, Oh my God, these are painful.

Speaker 14: You've got no problem fighting other Qunari. I'm from Ravaine. Not like I follow the Qun. You've got the arm ropes? [00:25:00] Sure. I wear a lot of stuff. You don't get to tell me who I am

Speaker 16: Still a stupid name. Dragon King. Dragons wouldn't have kings. They'd have queens.

Malcolm Collins: Well, if these individuals think that this is normal interaction, if they think that this is normal hitting on someone, if they think that this is normal flirting if they were a coder, would they not?

In the same way, not realize in intersocial interactions that they may not be in the right. And I think that this is a separate problem that happens with the trans community is they end up in their social environments. We're being validated and not being told that they have overstepped social boundaries, which is really normal because they can.

Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So basically leftist culture. Has done the same thing to even normal, mediocre people in like their everyday careers. What fame and fortune has done to the Wachowski sisters where they're like, you can do no wrong. You're amazing. So brave. And then they just [00:26:00] also still assume that they're fine.

Well, yeah, they're being.

Malcolm Collins: Leftist culture is about validating people when they use specific arguments. Not all the time. Yeah, like to the point

Simone Collins: of gaslighting. Gaslighting people about their competence and success, as long as they're leaning into the approved progressive culture.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, and it can cause them, I think, think to not realize when their skills are slipping when contrasted with their coworkers.

And the arguments that I hear from them is I've been in this industry for X many years. Therefore I know better than these other people, but that's a very feminine argument. Like men don't argue like that. They don't say I've been in this industry for longer than you have. Therefore I know better. It's I did X thing recently, therefore I know better.

Like here, look, this is where you're practically wrong on this. And I think that there's a secondary phenomenon here, which I actually think is what causes more of the Wachowski effect. So far I've been very generous. [00:27:00]

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: However, as I have said, well, I do believe that some individuals are like, if I believe that.

Human body is gender dimorphic, which it is, and the human brain is gender dimorphic, which it is. Are there rare instances where somebody is born with a brain that is gender dimorphic in a different way? I mean, yeah, it must happen in some rare set of circumstances.

Simone Collins: No, no, no, but like, I think that's also actually shown in some studies where people who identified, at least before this whole trans thing was big, as gay tended to show certain thought patterns and fMRIs or something like that.

Yeah, but

Malcolm Collins: you didn't see this as trans individuals. Yeah,

Simone Collins: but they were more similar to, but yeah, but these days now especially with natal women, they're like, Oh, you're into women. You must be trans. So like, I don't know.

Malcolm Collins: So now what we have is a phenomenon where. And I think anyone who's being honest knows this.

You can look at our heads. Trans identity been used by a cult to grow. There is a self [00:28:00] replicating mimetic virus that has used the protections that trans identity offers. And when I say the protections that it offers, it's that there is at least certain communities you can go to. And once you've been infected with the virus, it.

Directs you to coat yourself in these communities that will prevent the virus from ever being questioned or threatened That only cares about self replication It doesn't care about making individuals lives better. It doesn't care about efficacy It is like a memetic cordyceps virus that infects an individual's brain and people don't know the cordyceps virus

 Spores from a parasitic fungus called cordyceps have infiltrated their bodies and their minds.

Its infected brain directs this ant upwards. Those afflicted, that are discovered by the workers, are quickly taken away and dumped far away from the colony. It seems extreme. But this is the reason why. Like something out of science fiction, the fruiting body of the cordyceps erupts [00:29:00] from the ant's head. And when finished, the deadly spores will burst from its tip.

The fungus is so virulent, it can wipe out whole colonies of ants. And it's not just ants that fall victim to this killer. The more numerous a species becomes, the more likely it'll be attacked

Malcolm Collins: A lot of people who are trans these days, I think are really just infected with a self replicating memetic virus, which cares nothing about them.

In many of them, it leads to, I mean, as we know, the unaliving attempt rate within the trans community is around 50%. Incredibly high. Wait, is

Simone Collins: it that, is it really that high? I thought it was 35%,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

Simone Collins: Gosh. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it is. It is people who are like, Oh, gender transition solves this. It's like, well, the data is actually not as strong as you would think there.

And they're like, well, it at least lowers it. And it's like, well, we know from when the Travis dot clinic was being dismantled, they had internal data that they hadn't shared publicly that showed that when somebody goes on purity blockers, their unaliving rate goes up [00:30:00] significantly. That's disturbing

Simone Collins: because so many parents, proceeded with youth gender transition being told that their children would end themselves if they didn't support it.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, this is the problem with the virus, right? The virus kills individuals. And we know from the, um, no normal psychological field. Would you tell somebody, Oh, you have X problem. And if you don't do X, then you're going to, Unalive yourself because of course it's going to lead to a higher rate of unaliving oneself is an incredibly sticky thing.

It's in fact such a sticky thing that it used to be like when you would go to journalism school, you had to go to specific classes about never publishing stories when somebody did this, etc. Because it was so contagious as a concept. And yet it is built in as a concept here. People are like, Oh, well, what about kids who get this?

Look at this, the, the study the 2023 study gender discontentedness and nonconforming use. It shows that of 11 year olds who don't identify with their birth gender more than nine out of 10 to [00:31:00] them completely identify was it by the time that you reached 23. And when you're looking at these really high unaliving rates, of course, like you're like, Oh yeah, this.

this should not be promoted in these age ranges. But what I'm saying here, you know, separately than this, because here we're talking about the Wachowski effect is if it is this sort of cordyceps virus that begins to eat more and more of their throats, Thoughts and it becomes the only thing they can focus on.

It also explains why they add it in so many places throughout the game. Like, if I'm a man, I don't in my games, add a bunch of like women being degraded just automatically, or if I'm a woman, I don't add a bunch of like 50 shades of gays, gray stuff to every game.

Simone Collins: Please tell me that this is a game porn video because it needs to be.

Malcolm Collins: I am a no, no, but if I have like a fetish, right? Like I don't add that to everything if I'm a gay guy, like a lot of gay guys can write a game without adding like really uncomfortable gay [00:32:00] scenes throughout the game. They would be like, oh, yeah, if I force like the main character, so there's like a scene where you can like practically be forced to identify as trans accidentally in this game.

Speaker 9: Here we go. Take a long hard look at in it, kid. It'll always show the face of a hero who can get it done. Establishes transgender identity. I love who I am. It feels good to see the real me.

I mean, every single option makes me transgender. I, I, there's no option not to be transgender.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx): Nope. There is actually a back button here for anybody who is listening to this on podcast. , he is pretending not to notice it for comedic effect or maybe he doesn't notice it. , but every option within this particular sub menu does force you to be trans.

, so a person might get forced into this.

If they were playing in a style where they didn't go back on any choices they made.

Speaker 9: It's a, this is, makes me trans, this one does, and this one does. I don't know why I have to be trans, This is what Donald Trump was talking about!

I'm [00:33:00] getting there! It feels good to see the real me!

Speaker 10: It took a while for me to figure out why the face staring back from the mirror felt wrong. But once I was able to be honest with myself, It was a relief to figure out I was trans. And it's worth it to look in the mirror today and see the man I am staring back.

Speaker 9: Can I, can I do it again? Uh,

well,

alright.

Malcolm Collins: If I force a character to be gay in this game, like the protagonist, people aren't going to like it. And this is a project that people spent 10 years of their life on. And a company spent a quarter billion dollars on, I should not be putting this into a game. And if you're gay, like normal gay people are going to be like, yeah, that makes sense.

Even [00:34:00] like non normal gay people that are like, yeah, that makes sense. also, I

Simone Collins: feel the really weird thing about all this too, is that, you know, it's a trope, but I think tropes and stereotypes come from a place of truth because patterns emerge, et cetera. Right. Not always, but frequently. Gay people are kind of famously good creatively.

Like trans people, you just think that like, because if they're all part of the LGBTQ, whatever community that like, Hmm, like things would get a little better.

Speaker 25: All civilization was just an effort to impress the opposite sex. And sometimes the same sex.

Malcolm Collins: But yeah I agree with you on that.

Well, I think that this is, this is part of it is I think a lot of the people. And I know that this is super offensive who undergo gender transition are just homophobic gay people. And they undergo gender transition because it's for them an easier way to deal. And there's some cultures where this is just [00:35:00] obviously true.

This is why in a lot of these ultra conservative cultures like Iran and stuff like that, due to transition is how you deal with same sex attraction. You know, I, I can totally understand. And I think that anyone who looks honestly, you can be like, are some people who transition here. I'm not saying everyone here.

I'm not saying most. Are some people who gender transition homophobic gay people. Yeah, like of course some home. Yeah, you're gonna

Simone Collins: get some you're gonna get some yeah

Malcolm Collins: and so would Mr. Garrison Right, like, that's the he represents that but yeah

Speaker 28: I've Forgiven you for walking out on me after I had my sex change.

And, uh, and I'm ready to take you back,

Speaker 27: there's something you should know.

Al and I are getting married.

Speaker 28: You can't get married, you're f*****s! Oh, Jesus Christ, Mr. Slave. I am legally a woman. Now, if you wanna get married, you have to marry me.

Speaker 27: Colorado is about to pass a bill, which allows same sex marriage. We'll just see about this, you fudge packin fags! I'll stop that gay marriage law! [00:36:00] Oh my god, you're just saying that because you're jealous! Jealous of what? I'm

Speaker 28: doing this out of principle! To protect the sanctity of marriage!

Malcolm Collins: So for some of these individuals they might have been drawn to the creative industry originally because they had that gay super creative ability.

But I think that the whole gaze being really good with the creative arts also shows you don't need to insert gender identity and sexuality into everything that you're doing. And for whatever reason these individuals do.

Simone Collins: Well, and I, I'm still so curious because this seems to be a consistent trend.

What that reason is part of me also then turns to the conservative Christian community, at least in the U S which is like, birth control is terrible for you. Like exogenous hormones at all are a really bad idea. And then when you take someone who is transitioning, that's that on steroids, like just that level of medical intervention is going to mess with you anyway.

Like someone who's recovering from a major surgery, someone who's coming off a lot of drugs, like they also were probably going to [00:37:00] be. not in the best creative place. Could this also just be an issue of too much medical intervention? People recovering from surgery, people going through. I mean, also, I don't think

Malcolm Collins: it is.

I think I think it's an obsession. I think that the way that the virus works is that turns it into a personal obsession for an individual. When an individual is heavily infected with this particular memetic virus, it becomes a huge chunk. Of what they think about every day. Now me, for example, I think about my gender, probably 0.

00001 percent in terms of anything I do, it just does not occupy much of my thoughts throughout the day. I get the impression from this sort of content and people can be like, Oh, maybe this content is being villainized because people hate trans content. Right. And that's just not true. Baldur's Gate three was one of the most celebrated games of the year.

And you could have your you know, a female looking character [00:38:00] have a penis or your male looking character have a vagina. You could do whatever you wanted in this game, right? Well, but

Simone Collins: also, is this a bad toupee problem? Do we just not, there are lots of really amazing trans writers that No,

Malcolm Collins: there were not any trans writers in Baldur's Gate 3 to my knowledge.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: but do you know also like, there, there are plenty of people Who are trans in passing and like you just don't know like it's just a hot woman I I mean, I don't know.

Malcolm Collins: I think it's actually very specifically not a bad toupee problem Because what we have are instances of an individual before transition being world class at something Same individual after transition being worse than a teenage girl.

So the question is is why? And also, like, why is it all so grapey? I, that's the other thing, like, is this just a systemic problem for people? And I, and I actually think it is a systemic problem. And I don't even think that this is their fault, but they don't realize and they lack self reflection around it.

Individuals who [00:39:00] learn how to hit on someone as a guy, if you try to reapply that to being a lesbian, you are going to come off as aggressive and grapey.

Speaker 12: Quick think about us having sex.

Malcolm Collins: , Whereas a guy, you learned how to do that in an, like a different sexual environment. And so when I see the types of scenes where, like the scene where the girl's being pinned against a wall and she hasn't really consented to this this scene is If it, if it was a cis guy who was doing this, I don't think that that many women would be as terrified because they'd be like, Oh, well, no, they would be as terrified.

But like, it's just guy would know better. I think the problem is, is that they learned that they need to be aggressive while they were a guy and then they transitioned and they. The, the, the restrictions on their aggression fell off because they begin to categorize every woman who [00:40:00] resisted their aggression as transphobic.

And so they, they had the aggression and dominance you would expect from somebody who grew up engaging people as a male, but you didn't have the common sense of, If the girl looks scared or intimidated, I need to back off immediately.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. I, I could see that. And

Malcolm Collins: it could be that all these defense mechanisms that they've built up around this leads to them being like, like just barreling through a lot of guards.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: How'd you like to wind this one up?

Malcolm Collins: I love you. Like, I think with all of this is it's an interesting phenomenon because I'm trying to come at this phenomenon. Without any particular like, yeah, I'm the type of person who thinks that the trans community oversteps a lot, whether it is gender transition in youth or whether it is trans people in sports, but I also don't think trans people should feel uncomfortable jobs, for example.

However, I do think that we need to be realistic [00:41:00] about how this seems to be a real thing, that people who are world class in a space seem to start sucking after they transition if it's, In a creative industry.

Simone Collins: And we don't want that to happen too. So like, even if you care about trans people thriving, you don't want their careers to bomb after they transition.

You want them to thrive after they transition. I

Malcolm Collins: didn't want the matrixes to start sucking, you know, like, I, you the matrices ma, whatever. The point being is like, we don't want this, this is not like a us you know, it's a. This is a fascinating phenomenon that I'd love to understand better, but I know that we're not allowed to concede it exists.

Yeah, I, I find this phenomenon fascinating, I want to maybe, maybe even a trans individual could understand it better when they're like, yeah, I realized after I transitioned, I started to suck at things I was previously really good at. And like, would that, is that not in a way gender affirming? I mean, women [00:42:00] aren't funny.

Like, is it not gender affirming?

Simone Collins: I don't know. I mean, I don't know when, when I'm, when I go through pregnancy and, or other interventions with hormones and stuff, it can screw me up, you know, it, it can mess with me or, and there's even been times when you've been like, Simone, you're, you're really, really mean.

And I'm like, no, I'm not. And I can't see it. No, you're hard to, you're not.

Malcolm Collins: Never. I say that you're mean, and it's a hormonal thing. You're always like, yes, I am, and I'll work on it. But understand that it, you know, I, I don't, there's only so much

Simone Collins: I can do when I have like, very

Malcolm Collins: perspective on this stuff.

Simone Collins: But don't you remember that one time, the last time I got Overstimulate ovarian sorry. Ovarian hyperstimulation. And my estrogen was like really off the charts. Like, you guys should be worried about this off the charts. And you were like, Simone.

Malcolm Collins: You're so mean.

Simone Collins: I do

Malcolm Collins: remember saying that you're being unusual.

I was kind of

Simone Collins: denying it at that time. You weren't denying

Malcolm Collins: it at all. You were like, look, I have X hormone levels right now. I'm trying my best to [00:43:00] handle it. Please work around. And I'm like, yeah, sure.

Simone Collins: It wasn't working. Anyway I, I still I have fascination with this from a more medical perspective.

Like, I think that there are chemical things that are going on. And I think it's important to understand, especially if you're considering a medical transition for yourself. And even if you're not, because like from a nootropic standpoint, from all these other standpoints, your hormonal composition affects you, and it's really cool, I mean, we have a big natural experiment in trans people, and I wish that more longitudinal research was being done, because here we're seeing the effect that totally voluntarily taken exogenous hormones have on people and maybe they're not all negative.

Like, I'd like to see where it's helping people. So, anyway, this is a fascinating subject and I'm glad that you discussed it. But unfortunately, the Wachowski effect is not to describe something going well. [00:44:00]

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, but it is to describe something that's gender affirming.

Simone Collins: Yes. It's not

Malcolm Collins: gender affirming that when a person transitions to a woman that they suck at writing.

Speaker 29: Say something funny, Wendy. We can't wait. I'm not funny. Hey, girls are funny, Wendy, okay? Get over it. Just do women's comedy stuff, you know, talk about how fat you are and how you want to have sex with guys and then say, My vagina a lot. I don't feel like being funny right now. And that's just the kind of sexist bullcrap that's going to keep you in the kitchen.

Sit your ass down. This isn't a joke, you guys. Girls are funny.

Simone Collins: No, there are amazing female writers and creatives that do amazing works. I just don't think it's like, well, women just suck at this stuff. Maybe it's There are certain types of writing women suck at. Yeah, like there aren't very many female sci fi writers. And, and yet there are lots of fantasy writers that are very successful.

Obviously women dominate in romance. So yeah, I mean there, there are certainly places that are dominated by certain, certain genders. All

Malcolm Collins: right. Love you to death, Simone. Love you too. [00:45:00] Have a spectacular day. Bye.

Simone Collins: I was speaking or texting with that mother that I really admire that I keep telling you and I realized when talking with her about her process, because obviously she's 7 kids soon, 8, that when you become a parent of a really large family. It's not what people think it is. I think they think just like, it's like being in the Weasley household, you know, everything's crazy, but really everything you do just is done on a commercial scale.

You become a commercial restaurant. You become a commercial clothing warehouse. You become, and you're doing all these things the way that a business would do it or that a caterer would do it. And it's not actually harder. To make a meal for 100 people, I would argue, you know, 50 people it's just a different process.

But once you get that process down, it's quite doable. And I feel really grateful that when I grew up, I worked well, sort of volunteered with my, my parents when they were doing [00:46:00] whitewater raft. Stuff because all the river guides also did all the cooking, all the cleaning up after dinner. Like they did like all the catering, everything, they packed all the lunches.

So I got really used to like industrial scale, baking, cooking and cleaning. And it just, when you think about parenting a large family from that perspective, it becomes so much more feasible and you just have, you just have to think about it differently, but it's not like children times. 567. It's more either you have two or three or four Children or you have.

Big family. There's not this like incremental increase in work. It's just

Malcolm Collins: Why once you get to like, a few kids it gets so easy and it's easier from the beginning If you plan to have a lot of kids, yeah, because you're doing it

Simone Collins: industrial style Everything is purchased in bulk meals are made in bulk washing is done in bulk, but like purchasing is done Like on industrial [00:47:00] scale, it's just, it's great.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and it forces a degree of frugality and practicality in all your decisions. You can't be like, Oh, Timmy would like this toy. It's more like, is this toy going to work for four generations of kids? Yeah. Like this

Simone Collins: mother has this really organized system for drink cups, for example, because it's not like every kid can have their little weird drink cup.

Everyone has. One cup and they all have different colors. So everyone knows where their cup is. Like the cups all go in the same, like stacked shelf. They all are the same style. So they fit together and they go in, like, that makes so much more sense. Also, it's so much less stressful than like, Oh, well for my, my youngest daughter, he, she has this cup.

And then my older daughter, she has this cup and like, you have to, you know, you're losing it all the time and it's a problem and this just, yeah. There's in so many ways, it's way lower stress. Like, honestly. I would rather cook a meal for 50 people than for like two persnickety people. From a [00:48:00] chef perspective, it's just a lot easier and the food's not worse.

Sometimes it's, it's easier to screw up a two person meal than it is to screw up a 50 person meal. So yeah, I just, it changed the way I looked at parenting and I love that she constantly blows my mind with that. All right. Let's do it.

Speaker 31: What you doing, buddy? You don't

like phonics? That's phonics, buddy. Shimmy, what else does your Chromebook do?

Do you like it? Do you like [00:49:00] school?