Brand Growth Heroes

In this episode, I’m joined by digital strategist Sara Wilson, who coined the term “digital campfires” in Harvard Business Review, to explore why community is becoming one of the most important growth channels for CPG challenger brands. Sara works with brands including Nike, Netflix, YouTube, Airstream, Yahoo, PopSockets and Prince Street Pizza, helping them understand how to show up inside the communities where influence, identity and belonging are really being shaped.

This conversation completely EVOLVED how I think about social media and its role in driving brand growth - genuinely.

We talk about why the most important conversations may no longer be happening publicly on Instagram or TikTok, but in DMs, WhatsApp groups, niche communities, gaming spaces, Substack, Reddit and beyond.

Sara shares why brands need to stop thinking only about reach and followers, and start thinking much more deeply about identity, transformation and the communities their consumers already belong to.

Watch the episode on Youtube here.

What You’ll Learn

•  Why Sara believes the future of influence is happening inside “digital campfires”. 
•  The three types of digital campfires: private messaging, micro-communities and shared experiences. 
•  Why relevance matters more than reach if you want people to share your brand. 
•  How brands like Poppi and McDonald’s have embedded themselves into communities. 
•  Why founders need to understand the transformation their brand offers. 

Key Topics Discussed

•  Community as a growth channel. 
•  Why DMs and private spaces matter. 
•  The “OMG, that’s so me” effect. 
•  Identity, belonging and relevance. 
•  Why brands should embed into existing communities. 
•  Poppi’s winning 'sorority' strategy. 
•  McDonald’s Grimace and Mets community moment. 
•  How to create high-value community engagement. 
•  Why sampling and discounts are not enough. 
•  How founders can rethink brand strategy through a community-first lens. 

Useful Links

Connect with Sara Wilson on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/saraewilson/

Sara Wilson’s newsletter
https://communitycatalysts.substack.com/

Sara Wilson’s website
https://swprojects.co/

We love inspiring you and helping your business to grow! PLEASE share the love by sharing this episode with another founder building a challenger brand, a colleague or a mate who loves thinking about community, culture and the future of brand growth.

Don't forget to FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE to Brand Growth Heroes on your favourite podcast app, and even LEAVE A REVIEW - both of these actions make a MASSIVE difference to our mission to help more founders just like you.

Join our community on Instagram, LinkedIn, and find out more about the programmes and courses Fiona runs, as well as the NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning in to the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours.

**** Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor - Joelson, the commercial law firm.****

If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.

But scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.

That’s why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands.

Joelson works with brands like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze and Pulsin, and advised the innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola - and still work with them at JamJar Investments today!

***The fabulous team at Joelson is offering a free legal consultation to any CPG founder listening -  Book your session today!**

Credits

Thanks to our Sound Engineer Gyp Buggane at Ballagroove.com.

In this week’s episode, I’m joined by Sarah and Michael Vachon, the founders of Citizens of Soil, one of the most exciting challenger brands in food and drink right now. We explore how they are transforming olive oil from a commoditised pantry staple into a brand built on transparency, craft, regenerative farming and fairer value for producers, while building a modern consumer brand with real emotional connection and standout commercial momentum.

What I loved about this conversation is that it is about so much more than premium olive oil. Sarah and Michael share how they spotted a broken supply chain, why they chose to back small producers and female-led groves, and how a simple shift from calling something a subscription to calling it a club changed the business's growth trajectory. If you are building a consumer brand and thinking about community, premiumisation, founder focus and how to create real value in a category, there is so much to learn here.

What You’ll Learn
- Why Citizens of Soil saw a much bigger opportunity than simply selling premium olive oil

- How changing “subscription” to “club” drove a dramatic increase in member growth

- What founders can learn from borrowing packaging and positioning cues from adjacent categories

- Why direct customer insight and social listening led to the launch of the Health Club

- How Sarah and Michael are balancing rapid growth, team building and direct producer relationships

Key Topics Discussed
- Rebuilding value in a commoditised olive oil category

- Regenerative farming and fairer producer economics

- Borrowing premium cues from the wine category

- DTC growth and the Olive Oil Club model

- Community building versus transactional selling

- Nutrition-led innovation and high polyphenol oils

- Retail growth across Waitrose, Ocado, Booths, Fortnum & Mason and Selfridges

- Building a team to support DTC and brand-led growth

- Working as a husband-and-wife founder team

- Premium pricing, value creation and consumer behaviour

Useful Links
Website https://www.citizensofsoil.com/
Connect with Michael https://www.linkedin.com/in/vachonline/
Connect with Sarah https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahfulton/
Connect with Citizens of Soil on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/citizens-of-soil/posts/?feedView=all

We love inspiring you and helping your business to grow! PLEASE share the love by sharing this episode with another founder building a challenger brand, a colleague or a mate who loves brilliant food brands and category reinvention. Don't forget to FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE to Brand Growth Heroes on your favourite podcast app, and even LEAVE A REVIEW - both of these actions make a MASSIVE difference to our mission to help more founders just like you.

Join our community on Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube, and find out more about the programmes and courses Fiona runs, as well as the NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning in to the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours.

Follow Brand Growth Heroes on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube.

*****Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor Joelson, a B Corp-certified commercial law firm****************

If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.

Scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.
That’s why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands.

Joelson works with brands like Little Moons, TRIP, Two Chicks, graze and Crosta & Mollica, and advised the Innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola - and still work with them today!

Joelson are SO brilliant that they are offering a free consultation to any CPG brand founder -  book your consultation with one of the Joelson lawyers here: https://joelsonlaw.com/contact/bookings/

*****************

Thanks to our Sound Engineer Gyp Buggane at Ballagroove.com and podcast producer/content creator Kathryn Watts, Social KEWS https://socialkews.co.uk/

Today, I’m joined by Emma Woods, Chair of Ancient+Brave, ex CEO of wagamama, and one of the most experienced growth leaders I know.
Emma has done the full journey - Unilever, high-growth markets in Mexico, PizzaExpress, Merlin, Wagamama and now she brings all of that to the challenger brands who need it most, as a chair and board director.

This isn't a conversation about corporate playbooks. It's about what actually works when you're building something from the ground up.
We go deep on boards -  why so many founders get this wrong, and what to do instead. Emma introduces the concept of a Growth Chair: not just governance, but someone who's been at your stage of growth and can help you make better decisions, faster.

We also get into confidence, imposter syndrome, leadership stretch,  and why, despite real progress, women are still underrepresented in the rooms where it matters.

Emma shares her Vital 5 -  a framework for the metrics and decisions that actually move a brand forward.
If you're building a challenger brand, this one will change how you think.

What You'll Learn
- Why most founders get their board wrong and what a Growth Chair actually does

- How to find and brief the right advisors for your stage of growth

- Emma's Vital 5: the metrics and mindset shifts that drive real growth

- How to lead when you're constantly outside your comfort zone

- Why confidence isn't a personality trait… it's a practice

- The real state of women in senior business leadership and what needs to change

Key Topics Discussed
- Emma Woods’ journey from Unilever to Wagamama CEO to board leadership

- What high-growth markets teach you about speed, instinct and leadership

- When founders should introduce a board and why timing matters

- Governance vs growth: what boards should actually be doing

- The “Vital Five”  and how to focus your business

- Why consumer brands are “leaky buckets” (and what to do about it)

- The PizzaExpress promotion lesson and the long-term cost of short-term growth

- What makes a great chair-founder relationship

- Growth leadership vs traditional leadership

- Women in business: boards, CEOs and the “power seat” gap

- Confidence, imposter syndrome and leadership stretch

- Emma’s Conversations in Confidence series

Useful links:
Connect with Emma Woods on LinkedIn
Emma’s Conversations in Confidence series

We love inspiring you and helping your business to grow. Please share this episode with another founder building a challenger brand, a colleague, or a mate who is interested in the future of food, content-led growth and scaling consumer brands. Don’t forget to follow or subscribe to Brand Growth Heroes on your favourite podcast app, and please leave a review too. Both of those actions make a massive difference to our mission to help more founders just like you.

You can also connect with Brand Growth Heroes on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube, find out more about the programmes and courses I run, and join our NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning into the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours.

======================================================================================================

Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor - Joelson, a B Corp certified commercial law firm.

If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.

But scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.

That’s why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands.

Joelson works with brands like Little Moons, TRIP, Two Chicks, graze and Crosta & Mollica, and advised the Innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola - and still work with them today!

Do you need legal advice as you grow your brand? Take this BIG opportunity and book a free consultation with one of Joelson lawyers here. 

=====================================================================================================

Thanks to our Sound Engineer, Gyp Buggane, Ballagroove.com and podcast producer, Kathryn Watts, Social KEWS.

This week, I’m joined by Henry Firth & Ian Theasby, the founders of BOSH!, to explore how an audience-first approach helped them build one of the most recognisable plant-based consumer brands in the UK. For founders scaling challenger brands, this is an incredible lesson in brand growth through content & community first. Long before their recent Tesco launch with their delish PIZZA, BOSH! had already spent years building attention, trust and demand through daily recipe content, bestselling cookbooks and a clear mission to put more plants on plates.

What makes this conversation especially useful is that Henry and Ian did not stumble into this model by accident. They set out to build a food brand, but chose to do it the lean way: validating demand, learning from audience behaviour and evolving from videos to cookbooks, licensing and then fully controlled product ranges. We talk about how they used views, comments, polls and first-principles thinking to shape products, why they moved away from licensing, what it took to launch into Tesco in just nine months, and what all of this means for founders who want to think more like media companies and less like traditional CPG brands.

What You’ll Learn

- How BOSH! built an audience before building a food brand
- Why a media-first strategy can reduce risk for scaling consumer brands
- How social content, polls and engagement can inform product development
- Why Henry and Ian moved from licensing to building their own supply chain
- What founders can learn from BOSH!’s rapid Tesco launch and lean operating model

Key Topics Discussed
- Building one of the world’s biggest plant-based video channels

- Using The Lean Startup mindset to validate product-market fit

- The shift in plant-based eating from niche to mainstream

- Why BOSH! focused on taste first, then health, then sustainability

- Using audience insights, comments and polls to shape NPD

- Moving from content to cookbooks, TV and supermarket shelves

- Why licensing was useful, but ultimately too limiting

- Building an in-house team and supply chain for greater control

- Choosing product categories like meals, pizza and curry from first principles

- Launching into Tesco and trading ahead of forecast

- Co-founder dynamics, leadership and role splitting

- AI, learning mode and operating leaner as a modern brand team

USEFUL LINKS
Connect with Henry on LinkedIn 

Connect with Ian on LinkedIn 

BOSH! Website 

Instagram 

Facebook 

YouTube
Read: The Lean Startup by Eric Ries
Tesco links:
BOSH! Creamy Mac & Greens

BOSH! Teriyaki Mushroom Noodles

BOSH! Ultimate Bean Chilli

BOSH! Hearty Lasagne

BOSH! Tofu Tikka Masala

BOSH! Comforting Veg Pie

BOSH! Goan Chickpea Curry

BOSH! Creamy No-Duja Pasta

BOSH! Spicy N-Duja Sourdough Pizza

We love inspiring you and helping your business to grow. Please share this episode with another founder building a challenger brand, a colleague, or a mate who is interested in the future of food, content-led growth and scaling consumer brands.
Don’t forget to follow or subscribe to Brand Growth Heroes on your favourite podcast app, and please leave a review too. 
Both of those actions make a massive difference to our mission to help more founders just like you!

You can also connect with Brand Growth Heroes on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube, find out more about the programmes and courses I run, and join our NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning into the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours.
======================================================================

Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor — Joelson, the commercial law firm.

If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.

But scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.

That’s why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping fou...

Want a deliciously sharp lesson in brand growth, category creation and how challenger brands can win by bringing new shoppers into tired categories rather than fighting for share at the bottom shelf?

Then dive into the insight served up in this episode by guest Rob Wallis, co-founder of MOTH Drinks, who takes me through how the brand created a new premium space in ready-to-drink cocktails and is driving significant category value.

Rob explains how MOTH spotted a gap in the market for cocktails that tasted as good as what you would make at home, but with the convenience of a can. Most importantly, instead of designing to the existing category price point, MOTH built the best liquid first and priced it accordingly.

Our conversation also explores what founders can learn from MOTH’s approach to where to play, how to build a strong category story for retail buyers, what premiumisation really looks like in practice, and why a culture of kindness and low ego can be a commercial advantage. Rob also shares how the team is approaching US expansion, why California matters so much in RTD, and how MOTH is thinking about AI without losing the human side of the brand.

What You’ll Learn

• How Moth went about creating a premium cocktail proposition - and persuading retail buyers that the market was there!
• Why challenger brands should build product quality first, then price from there
• How to identify the right channels and occasions to drive brand growth
• What makes a strong category story for grocery buyers
• Why culture, consistency and kindness can become commercial advantages

Key Topics Discussed

• Creating a top-shelf RTD cocktail brand
• Premium pricing versus category norms
• Building category value with incremental shoppers
• UK versus US cocktail culture
• Choosing where to play in retail and foodservice
• Brand design and standing out on shelf
• DTC growth and omnichannel strategy
• Building culture in a scaling consumer brand
• Managing quality with co-manufacturing partners
• Using AI carefully inside a fast-growing CPG business

If you enjoy this interview, PLEASE share it with a fellow founder, mate or colleague, subscribe or follow the show, and leave a review - it makes a real difference to us at Brand Growth Heroes!

============================================================

Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor - Joelson, the commercial law firm

=============================================================
If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.

But scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.

That’s why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands.

Joelson works with brands like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze and Pulsin, and advised the Innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola - and still work with them today! To learn more contact [email protected]

==============================================.

You can also connect with Brand Growth Heroes on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube, find out more about the programmes and courses I run, and join our NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning into the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours.

Thanks to our Sound Engineer, Gyp Buggane, Ballagroove.com and podcast producer/content creator, Kathryn Watts, Social KEW

What if I told you that there is a mathematical formula that separates those brands that scale really quickly and those brands that just tick along nicely? Well, there is one. I wish I had found out about it 25 years ago, but today the guest that we've got on the show (all the way from the USA) has studied this IN DETAIL, and comes on the show today to help YOU learn all about it.

***If you like this episode and learn from it, PLEASE share it with a fellow founder or colleague, subsrcibe or folllow the show, and leave a review - it makes a real difference to us at Brand Growth Heroes**

Dr James Richardson, author of 'Ramping Your Brand - How to Ride the Killer CPG Growth Curve', unpicks this maths for the first time, giving you the formula to help your brand scale like the enormous skate ramp brands in the USA.

Ramping Your Brand (2nd Edition) - Dr. James Richardson's book on scaling premium CPG brands Dr. Richardson has lowered the price of the UK paperback from £18 to £9.99 until March 10

What You'll Learn in This Episode

The Premium Pricing Trap - Why founders face unit economics that are 10-15x worse than big CPG companies (and why you can't avoid it)

The 6-10% RoS Rule - The specific monthly growth rate in same-store sales that creates exponential "skate ramp" growth

The Heavy User Strategy - Why your first $10-25M requires a completely different customer acquisition approach than Byron Sharp's mass market playbook

Distribution vs. Velocity - How to layer exponential velocity growth on top of linear distribution expansion

The Founder Evolution Journey - The #1 reason investors take over brands (and it's not what you think)

Early Fan Research - How to identify and replicate your "Gonzo fans" without spending a fortune on market research

The Danger of Slow Growth - Why growing too slowly can be just as fatal as not growing at all when you're undercapitalised

Useful Links

Connect with Dr James Richardson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/premiumgrowthsolutions/

Ramping Your Brand (2nd Edition) - Dr. James Richardson's book on scaling premium CPG brands Dr. Richardson has lowered the price of the UK paperback from £18 to £9.99 until March 10

Website: https://www.premiumgrowthsolutions.com/

Podcast: Startup Confidential (available on YouTube, Apple, Spotify)

***If you like this episode and learn from it, PLEASE share it with a fellow founder or colleague, subsrcibe or folllow the show, and leave a review - it makes a real difference to us at Brand Growth Heroes**

============================================================

Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor - Joelson, the commercial law firm

=============================================================

If you're a founder, you already know how much of your energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with your consumers.

But don’t forget that scaling a CPG business also comes with a maze of legal complexities that can make or break your business journey. From contracts, term sheets and regulatory compliance to protecting your brand's intellectual property as you expand, it's essential to get it right.

And that starts with the right legal partner.

So we're thrilled to introduce you to Joelson, a leading commercial law firm that specialises in guiding the founders of scaling CPG brands, as Brand Growth Heroes' sponsor.

With long-term relationships with clients like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze, and Pulsin, Joelson is also famous for advising the innocent founders in their landmark sale to Coca-Cola! As a female team, we are especially impressed by Joelson's commitment to championing female founders in CPG.

Not many law firms are also BCorps, nor do they specialise in helping founders navigate the legal challenges of scaling without stifling the creativity and momentum that got you here in the first place. So thanks, Joelson—we’re delighted to have you on board for the second year running.

If you'd like to get in touch to find out more, why don't you drop them a line at [email protected]

==============================================.

Follow us on our Brand Growth Heroes socials: LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube.

Thanks to our Sound Engineer, Gyp Buggane, Ballagroove.com and podcast producer/content creator, Kathryn Watts, Social KEWS.

If you've ever heard me talk about Superconsumers, SuperGeos, or why you should Name, Frame, and Claim your new category - all of that thinking comes from today's guest, one of my heroes: Eddie Yoon.

Eddie is one of the world's leading thinkers on category design. He's a longtime Harvard Business Review contributor, co-founder of Category Pirates (a top Substack you must subscribe to), and has spent decades advising Fortune 100 companies on how to create new categories instead of just fighting for scraps of market share.

I've studied Eddie's work obsessively for years because he doesn't just teach marketing - he teaches thinking. AND in this conversation, we jam together (riffing on ideas, building on each other's thoughts) about why everything you've learned in marketing strategy is likely wrong.

We talk about K-pop Demon Hunters, how Nespresso and Gillette grew massive categories, and why breakthrough categories don't come from better features or nicer packaging - they come from deeply understanding what outcomes your super consumers are looking for.

This episode is PACKED with real-life brand examples: Velveeta, Keurig, Tesla, Spam Musubi, frozen peas, and more. Eddie brings category design to life with stories that will completely change how you think about growing your business.

Next Steps: Go find your K-pop moment, your Velveeta insight, your frozen peas problem - that's where exponential growth lives!

In This Episode You'll Learn:

Why 99% of CPG brands are playing the wrong game - stealing market share vs. growing categories, and why the biggest companies are least likely to create new categories

Benefits are dead, outcomes are everything - The Velveeta $100M growth story: how solving one super consumer outcome (getting kids to eat greens) unlocked massive growth

The power of super consumers & super geos - Why you should hire your super consumers, and the shocking Cherry Garcia data: 3,000 of 30,000 stores drove 80% of sales

Lightning strike marketing - How to turn a £60K budget into £600K of impact (the Dude Wipes strategy of keeping 75% of marketing unplanned)

Don't be afraid to niche down - Why 99% of experts are wrong when they say you're leaving people behind

Useful links

Connect with Eddie Yoon on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/eddie-yoon-ewg/

Connect with Category Pirates on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/category-pirates/

https://www.categorypirates.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@categorypirates

Mentioned in This Episode: Books & Frameworks:

• Competitive Strategy by Michael Porter
• Superconsumers by Eddie Yoon
• Clayton Christensen's "Jobs to Be Done" (milkshake example)
• Byron Sharp (mentioned as conventional wisdom)

Mentioned in This Episode: Brands & Case Studies:

• Gillette (China market expansion)
• Keurig vs. Starbucks Verismo
• Nespresso
• Velveeta
• Ben & Jerry's Cherry Garcia
• Spam & Spam Musubi (Hawaii)
• Tesla
• Nvidia
• K-pop Demon Hunters (Netflix)
• Dude Wipes
• Rogaine
• Royal Canin
• Anheuser-Busch

============================================================

Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor - Joelson, the commercial law firm

=============================================================

If you're a founder, you already know how much of your energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with your consumers.

But don’t forget that scaling a CPG business also comes with a maze of legal complexities that can make or break your business journey. From contracts, term sheets and regulatory compliance to protecting your brand's intellectual property as you expand, it's essential to get it right.

And that starts with the right legal partner.

So we're thrilled to introduce you to Joelson, a leading commercial law firm that specialises in guiding the founders of scaling CPG brands, as Brand Growth Heroes' sponsor.

With long-term relationships with clients like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze, and Pulsin, Joelson is also famous for advising the innocent founders in their landmark sale to Coca-Cola! As a female team, we are especially impressed by Joelson's commitment to championing female founders in CPG.

Not many law firms are also BCorps, nor do they specialise in helping founders navigate the legal challenges of scaling without stifling the creativity and momentum that got you here in the first place. So thanks, Joelson—we’re delighted to have you on board for the second year running.

If you'd like to get in touch to find out more, why don't you drop them a line at [email protected]

==============================================.

Please don't hesitate to join our Brand Growth Heroes community to stay updated with captivating stories and learnings from your beloved brands on their path to success!

Follow us on our Brand Growth Heroes socials: LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube.

Thanks to our Sound Engineer, Gyp Buggane, Ballagroove.com and podcast producer/content creator, Kathryn Watts, Social KEWS.

Yep - we are at the start of a new world - a world where AI is going to be 'even bigger than the internet'.

And as the leaders of challenger brands in CPG, we've gotta lean in. In this episode of Brand Growth Heroes, I’m joined by one of my oldest and best friends, Paul Adams, CPO & Marketing at a multi-billion dollar company, Intercom AND he is building Fin.ai.

If you're not in 'Tech' you may not have heard of him, but Paul Adams is one of the world's most prominent tech product designers, researchers, and authors -  recognised as one of the world's leading thinkers on the the intersection between humans and technology... and now between humans, commercialisation and AI.... amongst many other aspects of tech that most of us are not even privy to!
 
Described as "one of Silicon Valley's most wanted", he's also one of my closest friends, and I can't tell you how proud we are of the young man who rocked up to live with us in Balham in 2002 to work at Dyson, his very first job. After only a few years he was poached by Facebook, where he made the platform 'mobile' and then Google, where he worked on making Gmail, Google and YouTube mobile too. It was while working for these behemoths that he moved to San Francisco with his wife Jennifer, who's one of my three besties (Love you, Jen), and became globally renowned on the Tech speaker scene. 

In this episode, Paul argues that AI isn’t just another new channel or tool. It’s a platform shift on the scale of the internet and potentially bigger. We talk about why the moment we’re in feels eerily similar to 1999, why marketing is getting less effective across the board, and why the brands that win next will look very different to the ones that won the last cycle.

A bit more background on Paul:

• "Most Wanted" Status (2011): Paul Adams was highlighted by Fortune as a highly sought-after talent in Silicon Valley following his significant contributions to major tech firms.
• Google (Social Research): At Google, he led the social research team, and his work directly influenced the creation of "Circles," which became the foundational feature of Google+. He also worked on Gmail, YouTube, and mobile products.
• Facebook (Brand Experience): He later joined Facebook as the Global Brand Experience Manager, where he focused on research, design, and product strategy, working with marketers and advertising agencies.
• Intercom (Product Strategy): He joined Intercom as VP of Product in 2014, later becoming the Chief Product Officer.
• Thought Leadership: Adams is the author of Grouped: How Small Groups of Friends are the Key to Influence on the Social Web. His work on "The Real Life Social Network" is widely recognized as one of the most viewed presentations on the evolution of social networks.
• Background: Before his time in tech, he worked as a product designer at Dyson, where he designed electronic appliances. 

Current Status: As of September 2023, he was working as the Chief Product Officer at Intercom, focusing on product strategy in the age of AI.

This isn’t a tactical 'AI' for the sake of AI episode.

It’s a big-picture conversation about what’s actually changing, what’s already changed, and what brand builders need to understand to stay relevant over the next decade.

it was this conversation that made me set up a buzzing new community called NextGen CPG -  a community for AI-native founders.   Take a look and see if you're eligible to join us here

Useful links

Connect with Paul Adams on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/pauladams/

Connect with Intercom The #1 AI Agent https://www.linkedin.com/company/intercom/

Join the NextGen CPG WhatsApp community and LinkedIn page 

============================================================

Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor - Joelson, the commercial law firm

=============================================================

If you're a founder, you already know how much of your energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with your consumers.

But don’t forget that scaling a CPG business also comes with a maze of legal complexities that can make or break your business journey. From contracts, term sheets and regulatory compliance to protecting your brand's intellectual property as you expand, it's essential to get it right.

And that starts with the right legal partner.

So we're thrilled to introduce you to Joelson, a leading commercial law firm that specialises in guiding the founders of scaling CPG brands, as Brand Growth Heroes' sponsor.

With long-term relationships with clients like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze, and Pulsin, Joelson is also famous for advising the innocent founders in their landmark sale to Coca-Cola! As a female team, we are especially impressed by Joelson's commitment to championing female founders in CPG.

Not many law firms are also BCorps, nor do they specialise in helping founders navigate the legal challenges of scaling without stifling the creativity and momentum that got you here in the first place. So thanks, Joelson—we’re delighted to have you on board for the second year running.

If you'd like to get in touch to find out more, why don't you drop them a line at [email protected]

==============================================.

Please don't hesitate to join our Brand Growth Heroes community to stay updated with captivating stories and learnings from your beloved brands on their path to success!

Follow us on our Brand Growth Heroes socials: LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube.

Thanks to our Sound Engineer, Gyp Buggane, Ballagroove.com and podcast producer/content creator, Kathryn Watts, Social KEWS.

David Lester is the co-founder of OLIPOP, one of the MOST FAMOUS challenger brands in the United States. After our first interview IN PERSON at Bread & Jam Fest, London, David returns to us at Brand Growth Heroes to delve deeper into what it truly takes to scale a challenger brand at speed in the US. (cont'd below)

============================================================

The Brand Growth Heroes Mini MBA 2026 is back!

Built for founders, marketers and brand leaders who want to grow brands the right way — with practical frameworks, real case studies and honest insight.

Applications open: Monday 5th January 2026

Applications close SOON: Midnight Sunday, 25th January 2026

Limited places available

All info & how to apply visit: https://www.brandgrowthheroes.com/mini-mba-2026

============================================================

(Cont'd) In this episode, David and I explore how businesses fundamentally change as they grow from a small founding team to an organisation of 250+ people. 
David shares why founders must constantly reassess their role as the company scales, how to think about hiring ahead of growth, and why senior hires should create an immediate sense of relief rather than uncertainty.

The conversation also dives into fundraising across different stages of growth, with David unpacking what investors really care about at seed, Series A, B and C, why growth becomes the defining metric once revenue appears, and why raising more capital than you think you need can be a smart strategic move.

Finally, David shares his perspective on expanding into the US, explaining why the scale, complexity and cost of the market are so often underestimated and why each state effectively operates like its own country.

This episode is packed with practical insight for founders building teams, raising capital and navigating rapid growth especially those with ambitions to scale in the US.

Useful links

Connect with David Lester on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-lester-4b71b512/

Connect with OLIPOP on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/olipop-pbc/

OLIPOP WEBSITE https://drinkolipop.com/?srsltid=AfmBOooJ-CAEJQJEk4PaYpk7F5mOj0_nDbLy5H5PWaqed1idZWDd50NW

Follow OLIPOP on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/drinkolipop/

Follow OLIPOP on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/drinkolipop

========================================================

Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor - Joelson, the commercial law firm

=============================================================

If you're a founder, you already know how much of your energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with your consumers.

But don’t forget that scaling a CPG business also comes with a maze of legal complexities that can make or break your business journey. From contracts, term sheets and regulatory compliance to protecting your brand's intellectual property as you expand, it's essential to get it right.

And that starts with the right legal partner.

So we're thrilled to introduce you to Joelson, a leading commercial law firm that specialises in guiding the founders of scaling CPG brands, as Brand Growth Heroes' sponsor.

With long-term relationships with clients like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze, and Pulsin, Joelson is also famous for advising the innocent founders in their landmark sale to Coca-Cola! As a female team, we are especially impressed by Joelson's commitment to championing female founders in CPG.

Not many law firms are also BCorps, nor do they specialise in helping founders navigate the legal challenges of scaling without stifling the creativity and momentum that got you here in the first place. So thanks, Joelson—we’re delighted to have you on board for the second year running.

If you'd like to get in touch to find out more, why don't you drop them a line at [email protected]

==============================================.

Please don't hesitate to join our Brand Growth Heroes community to stay updated with captivating stories and learnings from your beloved brands on their path to success!

Follow us on our Brand Growth Heroes socials: LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube.

Thanks to our Sound Engineer, Gyp Buggane, Ballagroove.com and podcast producer/content creator, Kathryn Watts, Social KEWS.

Why do so many of us founders try to do the equivalent of building a flatpack house without the instructions? And then beat ourselves up internally when it turns out to be harder than expected? Or when you make mistakes that anyone would in the same situation? Would you spend years trying to make it work with no instructions — just half-torn pages you’ve collected along the way, doing your best to stitch them together?

Not just the furniture mind you - The foundations. The skeleton. The plumbing. The electrics. The legal and safety stuff too....

... and while you're trying to build it, you're also trying to market it, sell AirB&B rooms and put the entire place up for sale?

Would you spend 50-500k of your own money doing this, not to mention your unpaid time?

That’s effectively what we do as consumer packaged goods founders.

After a tough few years, after countless marathons, we often end up with good products, and a brand we feel passionate about.

Perhaps we get some early D2C wins, and some early retailer traction too.

But then the stakes get higher. 

We need to making pricing, channel, hiring and funding decisions without ever being able to see how the whole system fits together.

So decisions get made in isolation - without us realising they are joined up. (think pricing decisions and customer or channel read-across - and if you don't know what that means, ask below and I will tell you from my own experience, mistakes and learnings!)

Problems get fixed as they appear.
But the cost shows up later - in margin, stress, or decisions that need undoing.

This is happening to thousands of us, everyday. 
How ridiculous is that? 
We're all making the same mistakes, incurring the same costs, getting more and more stressed - without ever asking: 

Why am I not looking for a set of instructions for this? 

Why am I beating myself up for not getting it right without them?

After 25+ years working inside and alongside consumer brands - from global blue-chip FMCG to fast-scaling challengers, I kept seeing this pattern repeat.

So I built the decision-making framework I needed and I wrapped it up inside the BGH Mini MBA. 

With a peer and expert network, so you don’t have to carry this level of complexity on their own.

Stop thinking you *should* be able to do this on your own.

Fi Fitz ⚡ 💛 

Applications for the Brand Growth Heroes Mini MBA 2026 cohort are now open.
https://www.brandgrowthheroes.com/mini-mba-2026