Look at another way to get your ideal targets attention via the mail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVi9yHRGmU8

Transcription

One way to reach a specific person.

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

I wanted to talk a little bit about how you would go about reaching a specific person, I was having a conversation with some fellows that are getting that they're really scaling up a new business, and we were having a really lively conversation.

It occurred to me, one of the ways that they'd be able to reach people, once they know who it is that they're looking to reach would be direct mail.

I've talked a lot about direct mail here. It's not sexy. It's not appealing to most people, but direct mail is absolutely something that is very useful nowadays, but only if you do it the right way.

If you have a very specific idea about who you're trying to reach and what you're wanting them to do. So I'm going to I'll give you a scenario if there's someone's attention you're looking to reach and let's say this person is the head of a business, how would you get to them, because most of the time, they're not going to be the ones looking through their mail.

Let's say they want a small business but if they're in a larger business, they're going to have someone else's sifting through their mail, taking out all the junk mail, getting all of the stuff that matters.

That would be pertinent and then putting that in front of you and taking it out of the envelopes and everything else. So how do you get past this person who is oftentimes referred to in any form of sales as the gatekeeper is what they call the gatekeeper?

It's usually an assistant or someone somebody specifically in the office that is set to block out salespeople and other people from reaching the principal in charge.

So how would you go about reaching somebody?

First off, before you do anything, you have to know really who it is you're looking to reach and why and what it is you're wanting them to do.

So in other words, you gotta have a really clear cut, offer something that's centered around them something that they would pay attention to, and would matter to them.

Not just, Hey, I got something you want to buy, you know, it's got to be something that's very central to that person, and something that they would could possibly be looking for.

Then once you have that, once you got all that worked out, and you know exactly what you would say to them, if you only had a few seconds of their attention or less.

What do you go about doing that?

Well, what you do is you craft a very simple, straightforward letter to them. And there's a bunch of different ways, I'm not gonna go into how you would lay out the letter and everything else that's dependent on this scenario.

I'm not going to talk about the different examples of that here. But here's a good simple straightforward way for you to go about doing it.

What you do is you craft a letter, you make sure it's personalized, you make sure it's directly to them. And then you send it via usually a FedEx envelope.

In the best-case scenario, you do like a, like an overnight FedEx, you get that to them. That is one of those things that someone had to pay extra for it because they're making it important to put it in this very clear-cut envelope.

It's guaranteed to get opened. Okay,

Thoughts on keeping your priorities in order.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwUPXWiAtZI

Transcription

Watch your priorities.

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

I just saw this article about YouTuber that crashed his plane trying to get some views. This is one of those issues where priorities really make a big difference.

I'm a Business Investor, for those of you who don't know, and I work with a lot of different businesses in different industries. But what I come across is a lot of similar problems regardless of what industry, regardless of what type of business that you're running.

Here's what I'm getting from this news story.

Whether it's true or not, I haven't read into all the details. But what ends up happening is when a person is looking for attention, more than they're thinking about what they're going to do with that attention, they end up getting into a lot of trouble.

It's really easy to get caught up in that loop of saying, well, we need is more views, we need more attention we need. Yes, you need to stand out, I wrote a whole book about standing out, 9 Ways to Amazon-Proof Your Business, and how to make yourself completely stand out and be different from your competitors. In fact, you get a free copy at AmazonProofBook.com.

But if you put that ahead of everything else, and you don't have a game plan beyond that, if your whole game is nothing, but making noise and standing out and getting attention for today.

But you don't have a plan for tomorrow, or how to take the people that are viewing you today because of some outrageous stunt, how to convert them over to something else, then your whole focus is on how to be more and more outrageous, how to be crazier and crazier.

I'm all for being outrageous and crazy. That's good stuff.

It's important to get to make yourself stand out but there's a limit to it.

If you're focused on just making yourself outdoing yourself and becoming crazier and more outrageous. There's a burnout period to that eventually, it's very common among YouTubers, people on any type of visual video media, whether Instagram, Tik Tok any of these places.

If you're constantly trying to outdo yourself, if that's your only game, then you're going to run out of steam eventually, or you're going to end up doing something stupid that get you to put into jail or kicked off of your platform, or something of that sort.

This happens across the business in that the business owner tends to get focus overly focused in one area or gets splattered all over the place in a million different areas.

And just pays attention to anything that excites them at that moment, as opposed to making sure that all the areas are covered properly. I was having a conversation with some really close friends that are with one of the clients that I work with.

They're having this issue, it's an ongoing issue with the organization that they work at.

And this is common across the board. It's something you got to watch for yourself, if you are the executive, if you're the business owner, if you're one of the people in charge, this is a huge thing you have to watch for and you have to ask for help.

You have to ask for help from the people you work with.

You may have to ask for help for people outside of where you work with is one of the things that I'll go in with companies and try and see it from the business owners' perspective.

Value of patience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz0dkKMwddg

Transcription

Wait for the answer.

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

I'm a Business investor, we talk on this show about things that affect business people. So whether you own a business, whether you are the executive and in charge of a business, we like to see things from that perspective and kind of talk about the issues that you deal with.

What are some shortcuts?

What are some tactics, strategies and principles that you could put into play right away in your business?

This is a situation that has been a long time coming for me. And I've been getting bits and pieces of this all for really the last 12 months, 12 to 18 months?

I've been waiting on a very specific answer about a problem that I've been having in one of my businesses, it's one of my favorite ones.

I wasn't quite sure what to do and I had a huge piece of that answer come to me today in the form of a book that I was reading, which I would have never guessed. Out of all the books that are out there, that would be this book that would be helpful to me.

I'll tell you, maybe we'll talk about that tomorrow, or in a future episode, what book that is and give you a little book review.

I'm waiting for my hard copy to come because I listened to the audio already. And so I'm really jazzed about it. It was, it's been one of the best books I've read in the last couple of years.

Actually, some of the best books that I've read recently, have all been about this same subject matter. And these things have just started coming to me. Really not.

Not through any fault of my own but I wanted to talk about this.

This is a scenario that I hear I hear from a lot of different people, but specifically about business people they'll say this in conversation, but it never gets brought up enough in terms of the scenario that we almost all go through.

This is it, we hit a problem, we hit a wall, we hit a plateau, we hit something with our business, and with and with how we're handling and how we're thinking about it.

When you reach that point, what do you do?

Really, you just have to wave your hands up in the air and say, I don't know what the next step is. I don't know how to fix this. But I still have ideas on things to try.

We're going to keep trying things but I'm going to wait for the answer.

There are a lot of different ways that answers come to you. Sometimes it just comes in the middle of the day while you're doing something else.

Sometimes it can be while you're working with your hands or something. I've heard that from a lot of people if they're working if they've got themselves engaged physically in something, that's when the answers come to them.

Other people say it's when they take a shower when they're taking a shower on a daily basis, the answers just pop into their head, other people to first thing when they wake up in the morning or in the middle of the night, they get an answer.

They have to make sure they write it down so they don't forget it.

Sometimes it comes in very specific forms. Sometimes it comes in the form of conversation, you're talking to someone. So it could be someone that has nothing to do with business.

This could be a business question you have on your mind but something they say opens up...

Brian gives a mail review on a recent piece of mail he received from DIRECTV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVatDPvTXwQ

Transcription

DirectV, sneaky mail review.

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

Forgive my messy hair I didn't quite do anything with right came on with you. But I want to talk a little bit about this direct mail piece that I got there. I haven't really opened it yet. I've only partially opened it.

I know it's from DirectV because there's a lot to this and it can tie back into your business if you're paying attention to it.

I'm a Business Investor, so I like to watch for different styles of marketing.

What are the lessons, and what are the takeaways you could take from it.

So from this piece of mail, it says right over here presort, standard US postage paid direct TV. Other than that, I have no idea that this was from DirectV, if you're just looking on the outside.

It's got an address a peel Box address, who knows where that's from says electronic service requested, says that timely material opened immediately, right. This is the style, a style that was very common years back, not as common anymore but still is very useful for people of a certain age.

Sadly, I'm in that group where it looks like a check, it looks like one of these automatic checks, I know that the government still uses the system, and certain institutions are still useful for people who are sending out paper checks, they may receive one that looks like this.

Now, there's a little side here that can be torn off. I tore that off already. I haven't opened up the rest, but I just wanted to make sure it was not check-in and it was a direct mailer to begin, so I just poked my poke my eyeball and just make sure that, and then it says a fold increase this side here.

So we're going to take a look and see what the rest of this holds for us. And there's nothing on the back. You know, it just says you know, lift up here, which direction to open it from.

We open that and what is the first thing we see is direct TV, get direct TV and enjoy all of this. It's an ad for Direct TV and it's got HBO plus, it's got a lot of personalization.

There's my name there Brian Pombo. And little letter Hi Brian. It still sticks with that it's got my name everywhere it can put it, We hope you enjoy AT&T wireless service so I do have AT&T wireless, there's never been a better time to get DirectV.

This was there tying in that this is a very important thing besides the sneak approach which is very useful because the toughest thing with direct mail if you're not aware, is getting people to open the darn thing.

If you can get someone to open it, you've won at least half the battle that far. If not more. Another thing is getting their attention and so using personalization makes a big difference.

But if you can go beyond that and say something that only an insider would know like you know the first line is we hope you're enjoying your AT&T wireless service.

They're speaking directly to me it's not just a piece of thrown to everyone This has my name, they know I'm using AT&T, now AT&T either sold or gave them this info I don't know the deals they have with AT&T but that's why that's how they were able to do this.

But it's also something you can keep in mind. If you know somebody that you can team up with. Even if you're a local business,

Thoughts on the importance of not getting too "caught up" with guru's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScCwueqgJWo

Transcription

Experts are people too.

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

One of the things that you're seeing right now around the world is questioning and worshipping at the same time expertise in all its forms. In terms of people that have degrees, in terms of people that have specialized knowledge, in terms of just across the board, on all levels, you a lot of people say that experts cannot be questioned.

Here's the thing we have to keep in mind, this is not a political issue. It's used within the world of politics but there is no political party that is free of this. There is no political philosophy, there are no people within any given philosophy that is not prone to expert worship.

If there's something built into the human psyche, that causes us to first hold a person up, and then pass off all of our reliance on that person for judgment on any given topic.

Oftentimes, we'll let them go far beyond what we consider their specialized knowledge. Because if they're smart, they're they miss, they must be smart in other areas.

So we saw this, we saw this quite a lot, you know, regardless of what side that you were on, during the COVID 19 pandemic, a whole lot of this happened where you were not allowed to question, expertise on any given level.

Then so that leads a whole section of the population to I don't know if you could call it overly question, but to become to where they automatically assume that the experts are wrong, because it seemed safer than going along with the experts being right.

Neither side I think is in the right in that I do think that proper questioning needs to happen. Now let's pull it back into the business. That's what I'm talking about very broadly, I want to talk about this in terms of business, the same thing is true.

Whoever you're looking to bring on as an expert, whoever you're looking to bring into the fold, or to trust or to hire any of those experts, they're all people.

People make mistakes, right down to the person I haven't met yet, that is not making mistakes.

I haven't met one yet. That isn't, in most cases, really good at something. Most people are good at something. Some people are outrageously good at certain things, but you go outside of that realm for them. And they could be very wrong, deadly wrong, in many cases on things.

If we don't acknowledge that for one thing, the desire for expertise, the desire for the wizard, you know, for us having somebody that knows much more than us on any given topic. The desire for us to hand over the reins to that person that's built into humans, but also built into humans is the reality that they're that experts are people too, and they're going to make mistakes, one way or another.

Now, how does that come back to you?

This comes back to a phrase that I've heard only uttered by Dan Kennedy, where he says…and if you're not aware Dan Kennedy, as a marketing expert, has written a number of books, you can go and look him up. Dan Kennedy said to be the wizard, beware of the wizard.

In other words, while you need to be were the wizards out there those people who we give almost magical abilities because they're so far beyond us in a given field, you also need to be that person because in a sense, if you are out there, putting forth a personality in your marketing.

Brian shares a recent experience he had at his local chamber of commerce meeting.

Podcast with Candy Morasch - https://grantspassvip.com/candy-morasch-once-upon-a-horse/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chjXoco9meI

Transcription

Testimonials are very important.

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

Every night, nearly every night, I will promote my book, 9 Ways to Amazon-Proof Your Business.

It's just because it's the latest book I've come out with it is the main way in which I start a conversation with many of the people I ended up doing business with as a business investor, I am always looking for partners I'm always looking for people to team up with.

I don't have a very clean process because depending on whether we're actually a good fit or not whether I move forward with people. And sometimes I work on an equity deal, or sometimes I work on just a straight line, a very specific short-term deal.

But one thing is true, I always tried to recommend this book, or have people at least peruse it before we go any further with business. Because I've had so many great business conversations today.

I'm not even sure where to start but I want to talk a little bit about testimonials.

I'm going to tell you how they handle testimonials at my local chamber meetings. So what they'll do is they'll that will have a group of people and of course, we're all meeting in person nowadays. So we had a really good-sized group of people.

And they'll tell everybody, you can give one testimonial to one other person, all right.

And you'll do that after they get up and give their 30-second talk.

So everyone gets 30-seconds that's there. And they get 30-seconds to give their pitch or talk or whatever.

Then if there's someone with a testimonial, they can talk and give a testimonial but you're always only able to get one because they don't have to have limited time.

So it's kind of fun. It's kind of cool to see. And there's always good stuff that comes out of that. Well, I was lucky enough to have some people bring me up. I actually got to I think I got two testimonials when you're always supposed to get one.

I ended up with two testimonials from some great people, Mr. Tom Parker and Mr. Steven Sable, I really appreciate what they said about me today.

I like to say what Candy Morasch said during her own time, she took time out of her own time to talk about a section in my book, 9 Ways to Amazon-Proof Your Business now she spoke about an area that I talked about in here regarding lumpy mail, and how to basically show up differently.

It's in my it's in the third chapter on being different and lumpy mail an example of that.

Now how you do that is if you're sending a piece of mail to somebody a piece of direct mail, physical snail mail to somebody, you could send it in a regular envelope. If you just put something in there that they can feel through the envelope, they're more likely to open the envelope.

It's just it's an old trick but it's extremely useful, especially if you're trying to get somebody's attention. And there are other tips on how to get that type of attention.

But that very specific idea of having that piece of mail be a little bit lumpy and if you've ever noticed, if you get something that's a little bit strange,

Brian talks about Elon Musk's involvement in Twitter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjh3rhOBw0k

Transcription

Musk invades Twitter.

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

Elon Musk has moved forward in his pursuit of acquiring Twitter, looking at kind of a hostile takeover of the company, especially since he first purchased made a large purchase of 9% of the company's stocks, and then was looking to get on the board and then wasn't going to be joining the board.

Then the head of this poison pill option that was put up by the current board of Twitter, and Musk now assembling a team supposedly to fully take over the company.

It's pretty crazy, but I'm not going to talk about the ins and outs of the politics, I'm not gonna take a side one way or the other one I do want to do is focus on whether this helps Elon Musk's brand?

Does he have anything to lose from this?

And I am going to venture to say that he doesn't while Twitter may have something to lose, because they are in a sense, doing a lot of things that can be harmful to their company.

If that, you know the poison pill basically sets the company up for a new suicide if Musk were to take over but so so you could definitely say that there are issues there with Twitter.

That's not what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about Elon Musk, as the head of some major brands, you know, SpaceX, and Tesla and everything else that he's working on.

He has made a habit of doing this year after year after year is putting himself out there in public and making a making noise about something saying something controversial about something.

In the same way that Donald Trump would use it. For really his entire career, be able to use the ability for the free press, it appears that Elon Musk can do the same thing.

So even if Elon Musk didn't do anything with Twitter, other than just play with it a little bit here and there. Even if he did nothing of any significance with that company. The fact that he's out there doing this and making noise and attempting it appearing like he's attempted to do it puts him out there as a person to either love or hate as a person to take sides on.

As we've discussed before, if you do that, if you put yourself out there in a way that is can be controversial, where you're doing things that are remarkable meaning people are remarking one way or the other people are talking about you, then there's really no way to lose as long as you continue on with it, as long as you do not back off from it.

As long as you continue to have something that the public get an offering that the public can partake in, you will get more and more attention.

And that attention, even though it's negative to a certain part of the population to the other part of the population, it's positive, and becomes more positive, the more negative it is to one side.

Regardless of politics, when a person goes about doing this, in a sense, oftentimes called trolling, you know when it comes to getting the other person's goat to getting attention to making a lot of noise.

Almost to the point of being a provocateur provoking a reaction from the other side, when a person does this, regardless of their political band, regardless of their nationality, regardless of anything that gender or anything else. It when a person does this, they get attention, and they move forward.

They have the ability to do more with that attention.

New ruling on mask mandates on airplanes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G2Rz0nTMyA

Transcription

Mask mandate over?

H, I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

This is the just news that just broke and that is that, the federal judge has struck down the mask the federal mask mandate for travel, one of the last remaining pieces of COVID government outreach.

If you get I don't know why you would say that basically, all the things that the government has done to protect against COVID are still in place.

One of the major ones was this federal mask mandate. So with this going, what's that mean? And what's that mean to business?

I'm a Business investor.

I like looking at really big picture ideas, and concepts that affect business, and I like to talk about them here. So if you own a business, or if you are an executive in charge of a business, this is a good place.

It's a good question to ask is not whether the mass mandate is actually over. But how did you handle the politics of this situation and is it actually possible for a business owner to ignore politics after this wave of regulations, and you know, protections, whatever else that came through that had such a direct impact on the business?

Now, sure, if you're in the tourist business, if you own a business that has anything to do with travel, this is going to affect you directly.

But really, if you look at all of the different policies that were being put out by both state and government, and in some cases International, is a really a chance that you can ignore it is there really a chance that you can put your head in this end, just because this is over?

That doesn't mean there will never be anything else that will affect you know, this was just one of the most drastic, most widespread, impacting laws or quasi laws or regulations that came into play in the past 20 years or longer, probably in the last 50 years.

As far as the United States is concerned. We haven't really seen anything that has had this dramatic effect. When it comes to business, oftentimes, the types of laws that affect us or they don't affect everybody.

You're talking about tax law, or corporate tax law, or regulations that are oftentimes very industry specific. When these things come out, not everyone cares.

Not everyone's paying attention. If it affects your industry, yeah, you're paying attention. But in other words, you're not.

But in this case, in this case, we're starting to see more and more policies by government, that affect everybody, and really have an effect, a huge effect on the economy.

You're seeing situations of inflation and other things that are occurring right now a lot of this is due to the COVID regulations be lifted, a lot of it's due to monetary policy, a lot of it's due to international policy, all these not one of these things can be said to be the one thing, they're all affecting it.

So the question is, how close do you pay attention though, because you do need to be you need to pay attention to some extent, you need to know how it affects you and how you're going to bob and weave. To get around it.

The best thing to do is to work as close as you can with what this current situation is and be ready for the situation to change and be willing to move, be willing to be flexible, be willing to change how you do business, in order to keep things going.

Happy Easter!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85WRSK_QvMA

Transcription

Easter reflections.

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

What does Easter have anything to do with business, we talk a lot about business concepts here, perspectives of being a business owner of being a person who's in charge of some type of business here or there.

So what's Easter has to do with any of these things, I'll tell you what it has to do with, because when you're out there, talking, if you're putting out any form of content marketing, and you're doing it yourself or someone on your team is doing it on a regular basis, you have to realize that different things that different words, we use mean completely different things to different people.

And people may visualize, you know, when they think of Easter, they may visualize the religious connotations of Jesus Christ rising from the dead.

They may visualize the Easter Bunny, Easter egg hunts, and all that. Or they may not think of any of that stuff, because they didn't have any background to that growing up or anything else, a whole lot of this comes down to how we grow up, what we experienced, and so forth.

When it comes to holidays that are well known, but not celebrated equally across the board. Easter is one of those that has very deep religious connotations but is not seen the same way by everybody.

For me and my family, I'd mentioned before we travel all the way down from Southern Oregon, all the way down to Northern California, it's about with my kids, it's about eight, nine-hour drive.

It's about six and a half hours long if you don't have kids, but with kids, it can take a little bit longer. So in that process of doing that every year to come and visit my family, it's just part of what I've always done.

If I came on here and talked about Easter, the same way that a lot of people would talk about Christmas are those times of the year are those holidays, that's a different feeling for a lot of people.

Whereas with my family, it's another big holiday where the whole family gets together. And different parts of my family all get together at different times. We have to kind of schedule things out and make sure that we hit up all these different places.

It's a very different scenario for a lot of other people, it's not that you shouldn't bring out your perspective, and talk about where you're coming from and what you're all about.

The thing is, you just have to acknowledge that not everybody is necessarily from that perspective, they're not all necessarily have that same background, or that same view of any particular holiday, especially when it comes to holidays.

So it really comes back to the rule of iterating the conversation that's in your customer's mind.

For to be able to do that you got to know kind of, you got to have a really good guess, solid guess on where your customer's minds at.

If there's a real mixture of it, you just have to acknowledge it, you have to point it out that you understand that other people may not see things the same way as you. It's just it's helpful.

I mean, you can always be a jerk about or you can always try and clear out a whole portion of your potential customer base that you don't want to be around. Because they don't have the same perspective as you and that's fine, but do it with the foreknowledge that that's what you're doing. Do it with intention.

So hopefully that makes sense.

Brian talks about trying out interval training as he looks to increase his workouts.

link - https://youtu.be/cUINHbh2HkY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSq37aTKd3Q

Transcription

Phil Campbell, HIIT and Sprint 8.

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

This is a very interesting episode. And I'm sure I'll have people watching that wouldn't normally watch.

So I want to introduce myself, I'm a business investor and what we normally talk about here are things surrounding the world of owning a business running a business, how to make it more profitable, how to take it to the next level, how to eventually sell it if you want to, but getting the best out of your business for yourself, and your family and so forth.

What today is about specifically though, I wanted to talk about something I'm getting a lot of questions back on, which is an exercise that I discovered years ago, have not been consistent with, but I can honestly say, is the very best exercise I've ever used personally.

I want to give you a little bit of background here and I can't go into all the details. But I can't stand exercising, I am not a person that enjoys. I honestly, I'm not a person that enjoys physical movement in general. If I could sit still and hang out with people, I'm okay.

The closest thing to the movement that I enjoy is I, I do enjoy hiking, I enjoy going for a nice brisk walk. But besides that, it's just not it's never been a thing I was into I did sports as a kid, I did baseball I did. I did basketball, I did football.

But I was never good at them naturally and I did not enjoy them. The physical moving part of it. I certainly didn't enjoy practices and things of that sort when you just work yourself to death, it was never my thing.

I know that I'm not typical for that. I know there are a lot of people that do enjoy that type of thing and do enjoy pushing themselves to the absolute limit.

I loved being thinner when I was working out I really liked that, as I started getting older, even into just my early 20s, I noticed that it didn't matter what I did to work out I would hit a wall with cardio and everything which I've studied this stuff for years.

The general consensus is if you're going to burn fat, you got to you got to do cardio, you got to get your heart rate up and do all this stuff.

So for a number of years, I'd go to the gym, I'd get on the treadmill, and just work out workout and workout to try and lose that extra weight and I would be able to lose quite a bit. And then I'd hit a wall.

No matter how faster I went on that treadmill, no matter how much longer I spent on that treadmill, no matter how much of an incline I put up on it. Nothing would take me to that next level, I just felt more and more tired, more and more worthless when I was done. never achieved any sense of runner's high or anything of that sort.

Why am I talking about all this, I'm talking about all this because how you take care of your mind and your body has a huge effect on your business.

If you can't handle this part, you're not going to be able to handle the rest somewhere along the line, you're going to hit a wall, and you're not going to be able to get any further because your health is declined.

So that's why this is why I'm going into his and I have earlier videos where we discussed this. So I just want to tell you about the thing that I found. So a number of years ago,