In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, host Paul F. Austin welcomes Brian Robertson—creator of Holacracy and founder of Ledgeway Sangha—for a thought-provoking conversation at the intersection of organizational design, spiritual community, and psychedelic practice.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-315/?ref=278

Best known for reimagining how companies structure authority through Holacracy, Brian now brings his systems-level insight into the realm of psychedelic spirituality. He shares the origin and mission of Ledgeway Sangha, a legal psychedelic church rooted in peer-to-peer healing, communal practice, and non-dogmatic love. Together, Paul and Brian explore how this innovative model bypasses conventional hierarchy, integrates softer entheogens like 2C-B and 6-APB, and builds a path toward legal protection for churches operating outside mainstream psychedelic frameworks.

Brian Robertson is best known for creating Holacracy, the most comprehensive framework in the world today for running self-managed companies using a decentralized power structure in lieu of a traditional management hierarchy. He’s founded and built many organizations over the past 30 years as an entrepreneur, including HolacracyOne, which helps companies use self-management to unleash creativity and empowered leadership, and the software company GlassFrog, which helps both traditional and self-managed companies drive organizational transparency, agility, and alignment to purpose.

To date, tens of thousands of companies in over 50 countries have embraced his pioneering methods and ideas, and his frequent public speaking seamlessly weaves between business, management, consciousness, and love. Brian is currently focused on building Ledgeway Sangha, an entheogenic church and community-building organization that’s harnessing psychedelics to help people release judgments and resistances into loving acceptance of all that is.

Highlights:

• From Holacracy to entheogenic spirituality
• Why Ledgeway Sangha has no doctrine or belief system
• Love as the norming force in community
• 2C-B and 6-APB as self-integrating medicines
• The case for subtle, sovereign psychedelic journeys
• A new model of psychedelic integration through consistency
• Why hierarchy undermines safe psychedelic containers
• Legal strategies under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act
• Creating a church for mystics, not priests
• Poetry, presence, and redefining spiritual transmission

Episode links: 

• Ledgeway Sangha
• Holacracy
• Brian’s social media

Episode Sponsor:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.