This is the start of something new. The episodes you have told us you love most are the ones where the three of us sit down together, so we are making them a monthly gathering. Once a month, Tonda, Barbara, and I will open the letters and answer the questions women are actually asking: the real ones, the tender ones, the slightly awkward ones, and the ones you would only ask us at two in the morning with the door shut.

If you are new to the show, here is who you are sitting with. I came out in my fifties, and I have kept all the receipts. Barbara is a psychotherapist who will advise you gently, and she means it as the highest compliment. Tonda has been out for more than forty years, so she has quietly seen most of it. We think of ourselves as the slightly older, slightly wiser, occasionally ridiculous friends who happened to get here first.

This month we read five letters, and the same quiet question ran underneath every one of them. Woman after woman, wondering whether she is allowed to believe what she feels.

Here is what we opened this month:

How do I know if what I'm feeling is real, or if I am imagining it?

I have never been with a woman. Am I allowed to call myself sapphic or queer at all?

Is there such a thing as too late? (from a listener in her late sixties)

What is compulsory heterosexuality, and how do I know if I have been living inside it?

I know I am not straight, but I do not feel drawn to women the way I expected. Where do I fit?

We talk about the comfort zone and the fear that shows up the moment you step out of it, the gatekeepers who think they get to decide who belongs (they do not), why it is never too late, and the grace you deserve when the feelings arrive on their own timeline instead of the one you imagined. Pour something you like, get comfortable, and come sit with us.

🌈Email your questions to [email protected]. You might hear yours answered on a future episode.

🌈Leave your questions in the comments below.

🌈If you are already inside Authentically Us, you can privately message Anne-Marie or Barbara with your question.

🌈This Authentic Life, the community course Barbara and Anne-Marie are hosting together, begins the first week of October. Registration is open now at https://annemariezanzal.com/this-authentic-life-community-course/

🌈Join Authentically Us, our online community, at https://community.annemariezanzal.com/

If the questions in this episode sound like the ones living quietly in you, you do not have to sit with them alone. Authentically Us is our online community, a growing circle of women who are all somewhere in this process of coming out and coming home to themselves. You can ask your own questions there and hear from us, and from women who understand because they are walking it too. We would love to see you inside.

Join us here: https://bit.ly/Authentically-Us

Some mornings change everything. Marissa Mitchell was 39, a teacher and army veteran in southern Indiana, married to her junior high sweetheart and quietly certain that the distance she felt in her marriage was a problem she could fix if she only tried harder. Then one ordinary morning, about a week into summer break, she woke up understanding something that reordered her whole life. She was in love with a woman, and she had been moving through the world as someone she was not.

In this conversation, one we are revisiting from Season 1, Marissa tells the story of what came next with rare honesty. She talks about the depth of the sadness, about telling her husband first and the grace he met her with, and about the tender moment she came out to her eight year old daughter at a stoplight on the way home from therapy. She is generous about her ex, who remains one of her closest friends, and clear eyed about the particular grief of reframing a life you thought you already understood.

What stays with you is where she lands. Marissa found her way to community, first through an online group and then a weekend with women who simply understood her, and she calls it the most life altering weekend of her life. It is a truth we return to again and again on this show. When you first come out, the instinct is to go looking for a partner. What you actually need is community, the company of other women who get it without explanation.

She carried that clarity back into her classroom, starting a Gay Straight Alliance that drew 45 students to its very first meeting. Her daughter draws rainbows. And for the first time in her life, Marissa says, she is comfortable in her own skin.

Whether you came out at 18 or are sitting with these questions in midlife, there is room for you here. We are so glad you are with us.

This episode is really about the thing Marissa needed most, which was community. That is exactly what we have built inside Authentically Us, our online home for women coming out and figuring things out in midlife, with group support gatherings every week. You do not have to walk this one alone. Come and see: https://bit.ly/Authentically-Us

It is the second Friday of the month, which means Anne-Marie is back with the company she loves most: her fellow coach Barbara Rowlandson and her wife Tonda McKay. This is the monthly conversation so many of you tell us is your favorite, where we take the real questions women ask about sapphic dating and answer them with honesty, humor, and a lot of love.

This month we open four questions from the Late Bloomer Lesbian forum. What do you do when you are in your late thirties, newly aware of who you are, and embarrassed that you have not even had a first kiss yet? How do you make sense of a libido that roars to life the moment you come out, and how do you have honest conversations about sexual health along the way? Why do so many of us keep falling for straight women, and what is really underneath that pattern? And how do you set down the guilt that rises up when someone you love reacts to your truth with hurt or anger?

Tonda brings decades of lived experience. Barb brings her training as a therapist and dating coach. And underneath all the laughter is the reminder we return to again and again. You are not behind. This is your timeline. There is no race to run, and there is a whole community of women who came out later in life ready to welcome you.

We also have news. These conversations have grown so popular that we are expanding to twice a month, which means even more room for your questions and your stories.

Queer joy is what this looks like, and we are so glad you are here.

Barb's viral clap back at a troll who asked what she would do if no one ever married her. She answered by tearing across her land on her ATV, dog running happily alongside, grinning and completely unbothered. Two years later people are still liking it. Watch it here: https://www.tiktok.com/@late_2_the_party_lesbian/video/7369204187428670725

Send us your dating questions. Drop them in the YouTube comments, add them in the comments on Spotify, or reach out directly at [email protected].

Like, comment, and share the episode so more women who need this can find it.

Keep listening, because the show is expanding to twice a month. Alongside the monthly Sapphic dating episode, there will be a second episode covering broader Sapphic questions.

The episode briefly touches on an OP's suicidal thoughts, and Barb reminded listeners that anyone in North America can call or text 988, available 24/7.

If this episode made you feel a little less alone, that is exactly why we built Authentically Us. It is our community for women navigating identity, coming out, and dating later in life, created by someone who knows the isolation of doing this in midlife firsthand. Inside you will find real connection and at least three group gatherings every week, from Speed Friending to our book club, along with courses and a place where you are always met with understanding instead of judgment. Membership is $39 a month or $390 a year. Come find your people. https://bit.ly/Authentically-Us

What if fear is not a stop sign but a signal that you are growing?

In this month's first Friday conversation, Anne-Marie is joined by regular guest Anna Empey, business development consultant and LGBTQ+ coach, for an honest look at fear. Not how to get rid of it, because we cannot, but how to stop letting it make our decisions for us.

Together they explore why the brain works so hard to keep us in our comfort zones, even the miserable ones, and why so many women stay in marriages, jobs, and closets for years because familiar feels safer than free. Anna gets wonderfully nerdy about the amygdala and neuroplasticity, explaining how every small brave step literally teaches the brain that change is survivable. Anne-Marie draws on her years as a hospice chaplain, where she sat with thousands of people at the end of life and heard their real regrets. No one ever told her they wished they had stayed more comfortable.

You will also hear why "blowing up your life" is the wrong phrase, how to recognize when practicality is really fear wearing sensible shoes, why the anticipation of coming out is often scarier than the act itself, and Anne-Marie's beloved reframe of coming out as "letting in," where you hold the power to choose who enters your inner circle.

We leave you with one question to sit with this week. Where in your life is fear making your decisions for you? No need to act yet. Notice, and consider your first brave step.

Fear loses its grip in community. When we sit with other women who understand this road from the inside, the fear, the guilt, and the shame all begin to loosen their hold, because shame cannot survive being met with empathy. Both Anne-Marie and Anna are inside Authentically Us, our ongoing community for women navigating identity, coming out, and everything beyond. If you are tired of carrying this alone, we have saved you a seat. Join us at https://community.annemariezanzal.com

This week we return to one of our most beloved conversations from the archives, my talk with Dr. Mallory Hanfling, a fellow later in life queer woman, therapist, and the creator of the term Firefly.

Mallory shares her story with such honesty. She married a kind man, built a genuine friendship with him, and still felt that something was quietly wrong. Like so many of us, she searched everywhere for an answer. Individual therapy, couples therapy, sex therapy, endless blood work, and doctors who offered birth control and even exploratory surgery. She was looking for a physiological explanation for a truth her spirit already knew. She is queer.

Together we explore why the question "have you ever considered your sexuality" is so rarely asked, how compulsory heterosexuality teaches us to dismiss our own knowing, and why women are socialized to carry discomfort quietly rather than speak up for their own pleasure and peace. We also talk about opening a marriage as a bargaining stage of grief, what actually happens when a third person is brought into a struggling relationship, and the moment Mallory chose to end her marriage with love rather than let it end in heartbreak.

And of course, we talk about fireflies. Mallory coined the term as a gender and sexuality expansive alternative to late bloomer language. Fireflies spend most of their lives underground, and when they finally emerge as their most authentic selves, they glow and bring joy to others. You do not need to have all the labels figured out to belong. If you are somewhere in the metamorphosis, this conversation is for you.

Dr. Mallory Hanfling is a therapist in Philadelphia, licensed in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, and Indiana. Her practice, Courage to Grow Counseling, serves the queer community with a focus on identity development, coming out, and connecting with one's most authentic self. Her doctoral research explores how community mitigates the impact of compulsory heterosexuality on the Firefly identity.

Mallory's resources

🌈Courage to Grow Counseling: couragetogrowcounseling.org (she provides a superbill for out of network benefits)

🌈The Firefly Circle weekly peer support group, linked on her website

🌈Instagram: @thefireflyjourney

🌈TikTok: Mal's Courage to Grow (home of the original Firefly video)

Community changes everything. It is the thread running through this entire conversation, and it is why Authentically Us exists. If you are questioning, coming out, or rebuilding your life in midlife, you do not have to walk this road alone. Inside Authentically Us you will find weekly gatherings, resources, and women who understand from the inside because we have lived it too.

🌈Come find your people: https://community.annemariezanzal.com/

🌈Visit annemariezanzal.com for resources, articles, videos, and the free downloadable guide for coming out later in life.

🌈Subscribe to Coming Out and Beyond on Apple Podcasts and Spotify so you never miss an episode.

What if the single biggest factor in whether we come out, when we come out, and how we heal along the way is the community around us? Dr. Mallory Hanfling returns to the show, this time with research in hand. Mallory recently completed her PhD in human sexuality, and her dissertation explored how community mitigates the impact of compulsory heterosexuality on the Firefly experience, the journey of those who discover something new about their sexuality or gender after committing to a relationship that appeared straight from the outside.

Mallory shares why she coined the term Firefly, what her 21 participants taught her about the systems that keep us underground, and why the people we surround ourselves with shape everything about this journey. We talk about grief, religious communities, workplace culture, family planning, neurodivergence, and how to choose online spaces that truly support us. Whether you are 30 or 86, this conversation is a reminder that we were never meant to do this alone.

• [03:39] Mallory's academic journey and how the term Firefly was born out of isolation, biphobia, and the need for something beautiful in a messy experience
• [08:16] The preconceived ideas that did not survive contact with reality, and the grief that surprised her
• [09:16] Grief as a portal. Why coming out later in life often brings every ungrieved loss to the surface
• [13:15] How the study was designed, who participated, and why Mallory insisted on a participant pool that reflected a range of genders, sexualities, races, and backgrounds
• [18:42] The central finding: community makes a world of difference in how, when, and whether we come out
• [22:00] The communities that most often restrict authenticity, beginning with religious spaces
• [24:13] Workplace culture, family planning, and the institutional barriers that keep people in straight presenting marriages
• [29:16] A-M's story of finding her first online community and the words that changed how she saw her ex-husband's new partner
• [31:26] How to be a careful consumer of online groups, and the difference between spaces that heal and spaces that harm
• [36:22] The overlap between recovery, neurodivergence, and coming out later in life
• [41:51] Treasure hunting: looking back with hindsight glasses at the signs that were there all along
• [47:01] Sexual scripts, caretaking roles, and the abandonment of self
• [51:55] Addressing the old trope about childhood abuse and sexuality, and what the science actually says
• [54:38] Mallory's advice for anyone figuring this out, at 30 or at 75

Dr. Mallory Hanfling (she/they) is a therapist located in Philadelphia and licensed in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, and Indiana. Her practice, Courage to Grow Counseling, serves mostly the queer community, working with individuals and couples on identity development, coming out, communication skills, and connecting with one's most authentic self. She is a doctor of human sexuality, and her dissertation explored how community mitigates the impact of compulsory heterosexuality on the Firefly late bloomer identity. Mallory received her Bachelor of Arts in Psychology and Bachelor of Science in Family Science from the University of Maryland and her Master of Social Work from the University of Pennsylvania. She has presented nationally and internationally on her academic work with the Firefly community.

• Instagram: @thefireflyjourney (the survey link for sharing your own story is in her bio)
• Website: couragetogrowcounseling.org
• Mallory is currently accepting new clients in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, and Indiana
• Mallory's previous episode of Coming Out and Beyond, where she shares her personal story: https://youtu.be/Wn0EWBEsOtw

Authentically Us is our community for women finding their way toward a more honest life. It is a soft place to land, a space for your queerness to bloom, and a room full of people who understand the questions you have not said out loud yet. We would love to welcome you. Come find us at https://community.annemariezanzal.com/

Content note: This conversation includes language that references homophobic slurs and a discussion of suicidal ideation and mental health struggles. Please listen with care, and reach out for support if you need it.

What happens when the thing you love most is the very thing the world tells you is wrong?

This week we sit down with Stef Vachon, a proud queer man, husband, father, keynote speaker, and former international professional figure skater with over 30 years of experience performing around the world. Stef grew up in a small French speaking town in Quebec where every boy was expected to play hockey. Instead, he fell in love with figure skating, and the bullying began almost immediately.

Stef shares his decades in survival mode, the breaking point that led him to write his entire life story and hand it to a therapist, and the piece of homework that sent him back onto the ice and back to himself. We talk about learning to be alone before finding love, the pressures of image and perfection in gay male culture, chosen family, and the movie that opened the door to fatherhood in his fifties.

Today Stef hosts the Together Moving Forward podcast and speaks on moving from survival into self respect, self love, and pride. His story is a reminder for all of us that it is never too late to come home to who we are.

Resources and Mentions

• Together Moving Forward podcast, hosted by Stef Vachon: https://www.youtube.com/@TogetherMovingForwardPodcast
• Reinventing Your Life by Jeffrey Young and Janet Klosko, the book Stef's therapist recommended: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/43866.Reinventing_Your_Life
• Lion (2016), the film that opened the door to fatherhood for Stef and his husband: https://youtu.be/-RNI9o06vqo?si=YvZBBnQhp24aX3XY
• Heated Rivalry, the series we cannot stop talking about (hear our full episode on it with Barb Rowlandson): https://youtu.be/7ws7-FvaW38
• This Time I Know It's for Real by Donna Summer, Stef's coming out song: https://youtu.be/U4_X2p6rPJI?si=-J9S3QpetZS5lu3n

Connect with Stef

• Website and podcast: togethermovingforwardpodcast.com
• Instagram and social media: @togethermovingforwardpodcast

If Stef's story stirred something in you, that feeling is worth paying attention to. Our 3 Day Clarity Experience is a live, guided event for women who are questioning, wondering, or somewhere in the middle of figuring out who they are. Over three evenings together, July 21 to 23, we create a safe and welcoming space to help you find clarity about your own journey, surrounded by women who understand because they are walking it too.

You do not have to have it all figured out to join us. You only need to be curious about what your most authentic life might look like.

Learn more and register at https://annemariezanzal.com/3-day-clarity-experience/

It is the second Friday of the month, which means Anne-Marie is joined by dating coach Barbara Rowlandson and Nashville photographer Tonda McKay, to talk all things sapphic dating and relationships. This month the trio takes on four real questions from women navigating the queer dating world. How do you slow down when every connection turns intense within weeks? Are you a jerk for losing interest when someone shows up looking nothing like their photos? What do you do when you want more intimacy than your partner does? And how do you recover when a promising connection ends after six lovely dates?

Along the way, Barb teaches the WIN language formula for hard conversations, Tonda shares her hard-won wisdom on representatives, resentment, and why community will pick you up when heartbreak knocks you down, and Anne-Marie reminds us that bed death is not a lesbian thing, it is a long-term relationship thing. Expect honest talk, big laughs, and one unforgettable New Year's Eve story from the Lipstick Lounge.

If you are questioning your sexuality or reconsidering who you are, you do not have to figure it out alone. Join Anne-Marie and Barb for the Three Day Clarity Experience, July 21 to 23, a safe and supportive space to explore your questions alongside women who understand. Our last event welcomed 54 women and many called it life changing. Save your seat at https://annemariezanzal.com/3-day-clarity-experience/

New episodes of Coming Out and Beyond drop weekly. Follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube https://youtu.be/NXWUe52DKmM so you never miss a conversation, and if this episode spoke to you, consider leaving a review. It helps other women find us.

When you come out to someone, you learn very quickly to tell the difference between the half embrace and the full embrace. The half embrace turns the conversation back to your husband, your children, your family system within the first thirty seconds. The full embrace simply asks, how are you doing.

In this episode, Anne-Marie sits down with frequent guest Anna Empey for a tender and honest conversation about what we wish straight allies actually knew. Together they unpack why coming out is never about sex, but about identity, love, community, future, and wholeness. They name the responses that wound, the ones we have all heard, like this is just a phase, you are so brave, and I will pray for you. And they move toward something more hopeful, the real allyship that defends us when we are not in the room, that learns our partners by name, that follows up two years and five years and ten years later, because coming out is not a single moment. It is a lifelong unfolding.

Whether you are walking your own coming out path or you love someone who is, this conversation offers language for the difference between the ally sitting safely in the chair and the ally who steps into the room beside you.

If this conversation stirred something in you, and you are sensing there is more clarity waiting for you in this chapter of your life, we would love to welcome you into the Three Day Clarity Experience. It is a gentle, guided space to listen to yourself and begin to understand what is true for you, in community with women who understand. There is no pressure here, only an invitation. You can learn more and join us at https://annemariezanzal.com/3-day-clarity-experience/

In Part 2 of this conversation, Anne-Marie Zanzal continues her talk with Dahron Johnson, a trans woman, advocate, lifelong cyclist, and chair of the Metro Human Relations Commission in Nashville, who came out in her late forties after decades of quietly knowing.

Dahron shares the rush of the days right after she realized a change had to be made, from calling care providers within 48 hours to playing the "wait list shell game" that shortened a six month wait down to six weeks. She remembers her first public moment out in the world, changing into a brand new outfit in the back of her car and walking across legislative plaza into a Glennon Doyle book reading just days before the world shut down for COVID.

The conversation moves into the tender territory of telling her wife, "I need to let you know that I'm trans," after almost 25 years together, and the grief work both of them have navigated in the six years since. Anne-Marie and Dahron, both former hospice chaplains, talk about ambiguous grief, the courage it takes to trust your own inner voice, privilege and representation, and what it means to be married to several different people over the life of one marriage. It is an honest, hope filled conversation about becoming the self you could never have imagined.

Connect with Dahron Johnson on social media. Her name is spelled D A H R O N Johnson, and you can also find her as DJ Contraption on most platforms.

Feeling that quiet inner voice nudging you toward your own truth? Join Anne-Marie for the 3 Day Clarity Experience, July 21 to 23 at Authentically Us, three evenings of guided support for women navigating identity discovery in midlife and beyond. Save your spot here: https://annemariezanzal.com/3-day-clarity-experience/