Conscious Chatter

In episode 245, Kestrel welcomes Eshita Kabra-Davies, the CEO and founder of By Rotation, to the show. A UK-based social fashion rental app and platform, By Rotation is dedicated to transforming the way we consume fashion.

"I think no one's really attempted to make fashion rental about the sharing economy, to make it about women sharing with each other. It's always been seen more as a "oh, I want to wear designer clothing" or "oh, I want to wear something new" or "oh, I have a charity gala or a ball to go to". It's always been for those sort of reasons — it's never really addressed the fact that we all have enough fashion in our existing wardrobes." -Eshita

Have you heard the recent discussion about how the rental market could have a worse impact on the planet than just throwing your clothes in the trash? It's been circulating around across the mainstream media after a new study was released in the journal - Environmental Research Letters.

First of all — research within the fashion space is so important and necessary and needed. We are lacking in accumulated data as an industry, so it is always exciting to learn about new studies and the way they go about putting their findings together. At the same time, when it comes to research, there are going to be biases involved, every detail cannot be accounted for, and there will be some assumptions made. It's complex, yet important to continue to question and explore the nuance with the arrival of new data and new framings of analytics.

When it comes to reports like this, it's very important to hear from individuals on different sides of the results and to listen to multiple perspectives. On this week's show, we talk with Eshita — the founder and CEO of By Rotation — on how they are working to make the sharing economy personal. For By Rotation, fashion rental is not another sales avenue to sell hundreds of dresses (to the rental company instead of the consumer) — it's instead an opportunity to allow us to use / rent what we already have in our own closets.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• "People are feeling pressure to always update their look, you know, always have something new happening in their lives — whether it's going to the newest restaurant or wearing the latest handbag or whatever — there's this pressure to always show new things. And I thought it would be so interesting if we could create a sharing economy around fashion, because fashion, turns out, is one of the most polluting industries in the world. It overtakes maritime and aviation industries combined — which is shocking because you would think that traveling and taking airplanes is the biggest contributor, but actually, it's what we wear every day." -Eshita

• "Innovative recycling or extended use? Comparing the global warming potential of different ownership and end-of-life scenarios for textiles" -study by Environmental Research Letters

• Follow Eshita on Instagram >

• Follow By Rotation on Instagram >

This week's episode is brought to you by For Days — they call themselves the "first closed loop clothing brand" and are dedicated to building a better, waste-free future.

If you're interested in checking out For Days, you can use code CHATTER15 to get 15% off.

Learn more and shop at For Days.com

In episode 244, Kestrel welcomes Alyssa Beltempo, a Canadian slow fashion expert and stylist, to the show. Through her YouTube channel with over 144K subscribers to her Instagram and website, Alyssa is dedicated to reminding us that there is a power in advocating for creativity over consumption.

"I wanted to fill the gap of showing that you can consume less and it can actually be fun and it doesn't have to be a sacrifice — which, like society has made it out that way — like we have to be in this constant search of more, when in fact, the opposite can actually be a very fruitful and rewarding endeavor." -Alyssa

The idea for this conversation was actually sparked when Alyssa reached out to Kestrel, after listening to episode 241 with Akilah Stewart of FATRA. In that chat, there was a lot of discussion about creativity, and Alyssa said she loved how Akilah highlighted that everyone can be creative, and that resonated a lot with her own approach to styling.

So, thanks to Akilah for inspiring the seeds for this episode!

We explore more on the power that creativity holds, when we are thinking about how to get beyond the rhetoric of consuming less, shopping your own closet when you can, how the narrative is finally shifting away from putting *all* of the responsibility on the shopper to address fashion's messes, and more.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• "Using less and being creative with what you have — this is not a new concept. Maybe I'm presenting it in a different way, but being more sustainable in your mindset is rooted in the way of life for poor and marginalized communities. My immigrant grandparents were reusing and being creative because that was what was available to them." -Alyssa

• "It's almost like we need to be a bit more materialistic in a sense — like we need to love what we have — when you love what you have, you tend to want less." -Alyssa

• Episode 240 with Maxine Bédat

• Episode 47 with Timo Rissanen

• Power Of My People, brand that makes linen shirt Alyssa mentions

• Live virtual "Shop Your Closet" event

• Subscribe to Alyssa's YouTube Channel >

• Follow Alyssa on Instagram >

This week's episode is brought to you by For Days — they call themselves the "first closed loop clothing brand" and are dedicated to building a better, waste-free future.

If you're interested in checking out For Days, you can use code CHATTER15 to get 15% off.

Learn more and shop at For Days.com

In episode 243, Kestrel welcomes Julia Perez, the creator of Jae and Leona, to the show. Through her company — Jae and Leona — Julia offers small batch, plant + botanical skin care products, as well as in-person facial treatments. She is also an intuitive esthetician, energy healer, and model.

"Self care should be an everyday thing, and it almost should be an every moment thing — like every thing that you're doing is with intention to support yourself, to preserve yourself, so that you can then continue to go on to live your life's purpose, whatever that may be." -Julia

Have you felt like you're hearing a lot more about *self care* over the last year or so?

I mean, let's be real - the last year+ has been intense on so many levels - from COVID-19 to the resurgence of the Black Lives Matter movement after the murder of George Floyd to job insecurity to economic difficulties … it's been a lot. And with all of that, there has been a heightened need to find ways to care for ourselves, in order to keep going.

But one of the things I notice is how much the *growth* of self care has been directly aligned with capitalism - you know, it's companies marketing products to us, as these things we have to have to take a break, or something we need to help us rest or do something for ourselves.

When, there are so many ways we can slow down without buying anything new.

This week's guest reminds us that self care doesn't mean retail therapy — and that self care can be little things that we do for ourselves on a daily basis. She shares more on her work as an intuitive esthetician, how she released her own skincare line during the pandemic, some of the ways her own heritage has been built into her products, and what skincare as liberation means to her.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• Julia's favorite ingredients? "There are 2 ingredients — one is tamanu, which is a nut that comes from the South Pacific that has incredible healing properties, and the other one is tulsi which is sweet basil. But both of those ingredients actually have links in history to my own heritage — my Dad is from Guam, so from the South Pacific, a lot of Natives actually used those two ingredients or those plants to do their own healing. In my research, I wanted to create a link to my own heritage and healing and really investigate and be connected to that."

• "I hope that many businesses can really step away from the scarcity model — of like 'you need to buy this right now or it's no longer going to be available for you'. You know, not only is that mind frame and that model toxic, but it also doesn't support others that may not be able to make that investment at that moment, and is kind of exclusionary in a lot of senses." -Julia

• Jae and Leona's Awakening Hydrosol

• Jae and Leona's Bare Face Cleansing Oil

• Follow Julia on Instagram > for all things sustainable fashion for larger bodies

• Follow Jae and Leona on Instagram > for all things skincare + self care

In episode 242, Kestrel welcomes Nishanth Chopra, the founder of Oshadi Collective, to the show, alongside Mairin Wilson, the head of regenerative practices at Christy Dawn. A regenerative farm and textile production community based in Erode, India, Oshadi Collective has been working in partnership with Christy Dawn to develop and release farm-to-closet garments.

"It's about connection, connecting to everything you do and having an alternative way of looking at things. Whether it be a relationship with another being or another person or a relationship with the plants or a relationship with any aspect — anything that you interact with in the supply chain. So, when we talk about agriculture, it's about the soil, it's about ecosystems, it's about the biodiversity, it's about the animals. You know, it's not just about *not* adding chemicals — it's about recreating something which we have destroyed for years and years and years." -Nishanth

The word regenerative has been popping up in mainstream fashion conversations more regularly over the last year or so – it's been written about in Vogue, Marie Claire, Women's Wear Daily, and more. But a lot of the methods and concepts used in regenerative agriculture are not new at all – they're rooted in circular practices cultivated by Indigenous people over thousands of years. And they are tied to ancient practices for the cultivation of fiber and beyond.

Unfortunately, as we see over and over again, the often whitewashed sustainability movement has a reputation of taking ideas or practices from Black and Brown Indigenous communities, without giving credit or acknowledgement, and then finding new ways to repackage and commercialize them.

As I observe the word regenerative begin to infiltrate the fashion space, it's key to ask more questions about what this concept actually means to these brands, and what the behind-the-scenes in the supply chain really looks like for them.

On this week's show, we explore some of these ideas with Nishanth of Oshadi Collective and Mairin of Christy Dawn. The two have been working closely over the last two years in a distinct partnership — they have been working to build a new fashion system, one that is hyper-localized and regenerative, and that has now produced farm-to-closet garments.

Quotes & links from the conversation:

• "It's really amazing when you create these regenerative systems and these systems — as Nishanth said, of trust and mutually beneficial relationships — I feel like, although it is a lot of hard work and everyone's doing their part, it feels easy because you're doing your part but then you're also benefiting from it." -Mairin

• "With regenerative, you start to have a different outlook and you think them as you, just another version of you. You treat them how you'd treat yourself — anything you interact with like soils, insects, animals, the people you work with — it's a respectful relationship with everything you interact with. That's what regenerative is for me." -Nishanth

• "I just really want to make sure I play my part — you know, I can't change the world or you know, I can't change big systems but I can play my part to create something small, and if that kind of leaves an impact, and it can be these ripples it starts. And I can take it to a certain distance — someone after me will take it to a slightly bigger distance hopefully, and it keeps going on. I won't be able to accomplish this in one lifetime — not anyone — because it's been happening for such a long time, but eventually the goal is completely change the system and create a system that is fair, respectful." -Nishanth

• Peeling Back The Layers Of The Green Revolution, episode on Art Of Citizenry podcast that has been very helpful to Kestrel when contextualizing some of the history connected to agriculture / fashion in India

• Green Dreamer episode featuring Nishanth — episode 307 — that Kestrel mentions

• Follow Oshadi Collective on Instagram >

• Follow Christy Dawn on Instagram >

This week's episode is brought to you by Gem - an app and web platform that brings all online vintage and secondhand clothing and accessories into one search.

Learn more & download the app at Gem.app!

In episode 241, Kestrel welcomes Akilah Stewart, the founder and creative director of FATRA, to the show. A creative waste management company, FATRA makes luxury bags from recycled plastics and fabric.

On this week's show, Akilah shares stories about some of the ways her grandmothers have influenced her and her work today. She also reminds us of the importance of thinking about creativity as a tool for building solutions — and not just an aesthetics-oriented idea.

Kestrel and Akilah talk about the way in which we must be reimagining waste, and truly looking at it as a resource. As Akilah highlights, when so-called "waste" is generated by other animals, they are always finding creative ways to use it in different ways — it's not something to be simply "thrown away".

Another big topic that comes up in this conversation is financial sustainability, and some of the ways that the nuances around it have been missing from the sustainability conversation.

• "I just want to keep it going in that manner — you know, working with immigrant women, working with women who want to develop their skill sets, working with lots of marginalized groups of people — so I think that ultimately, the growth doesn't have to mean exploitation anywhere — it just means literally doing more good for more people." -Akilah

• Episode 4 of The Root, mentioned in the conversation — Akilah was featured in part 3 of this episode

• "We can't be puritans to the point where we're not seeing action." -Akilah

• "This is where I feel the creativity is lacking — because generally, when you're making a product, your creativity is only bound and limited to what's viable to commerce, to how you can sell that creativity, so therefore, you cannot be fully creative if it doesn't sell, if it's something that doesn't make money." -Akilah

• "Lived experiences should be way more valued than they have been." -Akilah

• Akilah featured on EMPOWHER NY

• Akilah featured on Metal Magazine

• Akilah quoted in Architectural Digest's Clever

• Akilah's Upcycling Workshop on Slow Factory

• Akilah's CashApp: $FATRA

• Follow Fatra on Instagram >

This week's episode is brought to you by OEKO-TEX® - a worldwide association of 18 independent research and test institutes that sets standards for safer textile and leather production and products. The OEKO-TEX® portfolio of independent certifications and product labels help all of us make responsible decisions to choose products that are safer, more environmentally friendly, and manufactured in a socially responsible way.

Learn more about their labels at www.oeko-tex.com.

In episode 240, Kestrel welcomes Maxine Bédat, the founder and executive director of New Standard Institute, to the show. A think-and-do-tank, New Standard Institute is dedicated to turning industries into a force for good. Maxine is also the author of Unraveled: The Life and Death Of A Garment.

"The society in which we live in is very much a result of the rules of our society — in that, it is people who change the rules, who create them and can change them, I should say. And so, I think that was definitely my biggest takeaway, is like, nothing about this system that we live in right now is inevitable. You know, where women garment workers are exploited and we're just trashing rivers and throwing up climate change-causing emissions into the air and creating this product that isn't making us happy — that's not an inevitability, it's just the systems of rules that we create and have to change." -Maxine

On this week's show, Maxine shares more on her past journey, from law to fashion, and what has culminated in the writing of her new book — Unraveled: The Life and Death Of A Garment.

Maxine and Kestrel quickly discover their mutual love of "context", which plays into the overall conversation. They explore more on the origins of business — something Maxine discusses in her new book — and how corporations were initially founded on democratic ideals with the intention of being for the peoples' benefit, where citizens were also considered as shareholders in the model. This may be surprising, considering how businesses have now become aligned with profit, profit, and profit, at the expense of everything else.

Maxine helps tie some of these layers of context into how we should be looking at the current state of the fashion industry, and how we must get beyond these buzzwords (how circularity won't save us), to move toward doing business based on equity, that exists within planetary bounds.

• "We have learned that there has been an enormous investment in getting us - citizens - to see ourselves as docile buying machines, which social media has only exacerbated, rather than powerful stakeholders in our democracy." -quote Kestrel mentions from Maxine's book

• "This adoption of circularity as this kind of panacea that's gonna get us to this magical place where we can keep growing to infinity, in a land of limited resources — it's those frameworks that are just denying really the central problem that you just identified. And I think, to me, when I first was reading about the origins of business, which as you said — it was not to maximize profit, the whole corporate forum was created as a vehicle to pool resources for public goods like bridges and hospitals. And that's why the government of the people would give corporate paperwork and created the legal infrastructure around it. And then, as you said, it was Milton Friedman and the conversations from the '50s, '60s and '70s that just took this in a completely different direction, and that's … where we now really need to have the serious conversation. We desperately and do not have any time to waste in moving beyond these like "win, win", "triple bottom line", "circularity" — this fluffed … how do we actually go from a society that is based now on maximizing profits for shareholders to a society that is much more equitable and that exists within planetary bounds. And nobody within business has a good answer to that right now, but that's where the conversation has to be." -Maxine

• "I will not just be a consumer, passively consuming while things fall apart." -quote Kestrel mentions from Maxine's book

• Follow Maxine on Instagram >

• Follow New Standard Institute on Instagram >

This week's episode is brought to you by OEKO-TEX® - a worldwide association of 18 independent research and test institutes that sets standards for safer textile and leather production and products. The OEKO-TEX® portfolio of independent certifications and product labels help all of us make responsible decisions to choose products that are safer, more environmentally friendly, and manufactured in a socially responsible way.

Learn more about their labels at www.oeko-tex.com.

In episode 239, Kestrel welcomes Lauren Bartley, the head of sustainability and CSR for GANNI, to the show. A Danish contemporary ready-to-wear fashion brand, Ganni is known for building a cult following in the fashion space.

"Nowadays, sustainable or sustainability — it means different things to different people. To you, it might mean plastics and to me, it might mean human rights or circularity or carbon. You know — it's so broad. I just think we need to move away from this broad brush approach to the subject and I guess, be more specific with which issues actually we're trying to tackle." -Lauren

On this week's show, Lauren shares a bit of background on her distinct way into the fashion industry, and how she found her way to working with Ganni.

We talk about the brand's resistance to labeling themselves as "sustainable", how their 44 responsibility gameplay is driving them, and some of the ways they are working to creatively reduce their overproduction and waste, by adjusting their business model.

• Soil Association - their mission is to help everyone understand and explore the vital relationship between the health of soil, plants, animals and people. Lauren worked with them in the past.

• "Brands Are Claiming That They Are Not Sustainable. Here's Why That's A Good Thing", Refinery29 article Kestrel mentions

• Open Apparel Registry, an open map of global apparel facilities

• Fair Wear Foundation, Ganni is working with a consultant to further explore what a living wage means throughout their supply chain

• Fashion On Climate Report by McKinsey x Global Fashion Agenda

• circular.fashion

• Ganni's 2020 Responsibility Report

• Ganni Repeat, Ganni's rental platform

• Ganni's Responsibility page

• Follow Ganni Lab on Instagram >

• Follow Ganni on Instagram >

This week's episode is brought to you by OEKO-TEX® - a worldwide association of 18 independent research and test institutes that sets standards for safer textile and leather production and products. The OEKO-TEX® portfolio of independent certifications and product labels help all of us make responsible decisions to choose products that are safer, more environmentally friendly, and manufactured in a socially responsible way.

Learn more about their labels at www.oeko-tex.com.

In episode 238, Kestrel welcomes Jazmine Rogers (AKA @thatcurlytop) and Gabby Masuda Ambata (AKA @gabrielasage) to the show. A Black + Mexican creator, Jazmine is passionate about sustainable fashion and living, and sharing about it in a fun and graceful way. A Japanese American digital creator, Gabby is focused on sustainable fashion and lifestyle, and she's also a mental health advocate.

"I'm trying to reclaim the word influence because I think the word is so special and so powerful. Like I said earlier — it's such an honor to be able to influence others to do things. Like with all things with capitalism, it just takes it and commodifies it, but I think we can go back to the definition of what influence is, which is to have an effect on others, and I want to be a positive influence and a good influence to encourage others to think new ways and try new things and be encouraged and be empowered." -Jazmine

On this week's show, Jazmine and Gabby share more about how they first met in college, and how valuable their friendship has been in the process of navigating their individual growth in the "influencer" space, while advocating for people and the planet.

We also explore the meaning of "influence", whether or not Gabby and Jazmine identify as "influencers", and some of the ways they are in favor of reclaiming the word to represent the work that they're doing today. Jazmine and Gabby also share some of their thoughts on the complexities of growing your following amidst trauma.

• conversation with Diandra Marizet of Intersectional Environmentalist that Kestrel mentions

• conversation with Shakaila Forbes-Bell that Kestrel mentions

• Jazmine's YouTube channel

• Follow Jazmine on Instagram >

• Follow Jazmine on TikTok >

• Follow Gabby on Instagram >

• Follow Gabby on TikTok >

This week's episode is brought to you by OEKO-TEX® - a worldwide association of 18 independent research and test institutes that sets standards for safer textile and leather production and products. The OEKO-TEX® portfolio of independent certifications and product labels help all of us make responsible decisions to choose products that are safer, more environmentally friendly, and manufactured in a socially responsible way.

Learn more about their labels at www.oeko-tex.com.

On episode 237, Kestrel welcomes Ben Mead, the Managing Director of Hohenstein Institute USA, to the show. Hohenstein Institute USA is one of the founding members of the OEKO-TEX® Association, and Ben serves as the company's liaison with government agencies, industry collaborations and trade associations.

"Green chemistry has a kind of textbook definition around design of chemicals and processes really to help reduce or eliminate hazardous substances or the toxicity and those sort of hazard type characteristics — and so, I think that's pretty well been defined by some of the organizations that really focus on green chemistry. I think one of the other things that's important when we consider, or we do other work — is not only what goes into the actual chemical itself, but also how can that influence the impact of how it's used as well." -Ben Mead

On this week's show, Ben shares more on his background working in chemistry and textiles, and some of the work he does with OEKO-TEX® today.

Also, he helps explains some of the origins of OEKO-TEX® as an association, and the key differences between their certifications — STANDARD 100, MADE IN GREEN, and STeP. Kestrel also asks Ben to specify some of the ways in which OEKO-TEX® holds themselves accountable, when it comes to the validity of their labels.

Ben also walks us through the layers verified in their MADE IN GREEN label — including the way it can be traced using a unique product ID or QR code, to give shoppers access to additional detailed information about the supply chain of that product.

• MADE IN GREEN by OEKO-TEX®

• STeP by OEKO-TEX®

• OEKO-TEX®

• Follow OEKO-TEX® on Instagram >

This week's episode is brought to you by OEKO-TEX® - a worldwide association of 18 independent research and test institutes that sets standards for safer textile and leather production and products. The OEKO-TEX® portfolio of independent certifications and product labels help all of us make responsible decisions to choose products that are safer, more environmentally friendly, and manufactured in a socially responsible way.

Learn more about their labels at www.oeko-tex.com.

In episode 236, Kestrel welcomes Emi Ito, a Multiracial Japanese American mother and educator, as well as Gina Stovall, the founder of Two Days Off, to the show. Emi, @littlekotoscloset on Instagram, is the founder and co-moderator of Buy From BIPOC, and Gina was featured back on episode 224. The two recently came together on a collaborative collection — The Yoko Capsule — envisaged in the spirit of Emi's late mother.

"I felt acutely my own mortality and the urgent need to leave something behind for my own child, that would also honor the creative legacy of my parents, and particularly — my mother. I come from a long line of creative, powerful women who brought beauty and art into the world." -Emi Ito

On this week's show, Emi and Gina share more on what originally brought them together, and how their relationship developed into collaborating on a capsule collection. Emi walks us through what inspired her to reach out to Gina last year around her 40th birthday — a significant decade for Emi, the one in which she lost both her mother and father to AIDS.

The two came together to build The Yoko Capsule — a 5-piece collection envisaged in the spirit of Emi's late mother — and not only does the collection honor Emi's mother's legacy, it also sets new standards for some of the ways sustainable fashion can be more generous, accessible, and inclusive. Emi and Gina share snapshots of some of the conversations they had throughout the development process, that eventually led to the integration of intentional initiatives, in alignment with these values.

• The Yoko Capsule

• The Community Fund, a program to harness the collective power of the Two Days Off community and make sustainable options more accessible. TDO customers and supporters can opt to contribute to the fund, which will be redistributed to other community members to help subsidize their Two Days Off purchase

• Redistribution of Funds, fifteen percent of the profits from this capsule will be redistributed to organizations that reflect the values Emi's parents instilled in her

• Black Border's Sliding Scale Policy, Gina and Emi mention this as inspiration for their Community Fund

• Leila Kelleher, collaborated with Emi and Gina to consult on the size expansion aspect of the collection

• Reading Rainbow "Paper Crane" — episode of the iconic children's television series, in which Emi's mother was featured; Emi was there for the recording as a child

• Emi's Patreon >

• Follow Emi on Instagram >

• Follow Gina on Instagram >

• Follow Two Days Off on Instagram >

This week's episode is brought to you by OEKO-TEX® - a worldwide association of 18 independent research and test institutes that sets standards for safer textile and leather production and products. The OEKO-TEX® portfolio of independent certifications and product labels help all of us make responsible decisions to choose products that are safer, more environmentally friendly, and manufactured in a socially responsible way.

Learn more about their labels at www.oeko-tex.com.