Construction Brothers

If you're interested in learning more about the construction of Hoover Dam, scroll to the end of the show notes for links.

00:00 - A Quick Dam Joke, the Consortium, and Some Stats
We question our ability to keep our puns in check. Sorry, Mom.

Then we move on to the contractors. We discuss the consortium called Six Companies Inc. that won the bid at nearly $49 million, approximately $860 million in today’s dollars.

Eddie makes a conveniently timed comparison to the Washington Monument. The Hoover Dam is 726 feet tall–almost 200 feet taller than the Washington Monument. Only 6 buildings in the US were taller than the dam when it was built.

We discuss some stats:
-4.4 million cubic yards of concrete were used in the project. That is enough to pave a two-lane road from Seattle to Miami or a four-foot-wide sidewalk around the Earth at the Equator or enough to pave a two-lane road from Seattle to Miami.
-Its base is as thick as the length of 2 football end-to-end
-It has 4 intake towers (30’ diameter each) that can carry enough water to fill 900 bathtubs in only one second. That means 1,448,100 “bathtubfuls” of water will have passed through the dam in the time it takes you to listen to this episode.

07:15 - Construction Costs and Power Output
Tyler mentions that the cost of the initial construction, which finished in 1936, wasn't paid off until 1987. Eddie discusses the way that we handle financing for capital projects, spending not just tomorrow’s money–but money that won’t come in for decades.

We compare these expenses to the absolutely monumental amount of economic impact that the electricity from the dam has had. Here’s where the 4 billion kilowatt-hours each year goes:

• 19% to Arizona
• 23% to Nevada
• 58% percent goes to California (15% to LA, which is 270 miles away)

10:46 - Hoovervilles and Fatalities
Eddie fills the gaps in Tyler’s history education with an explanation of the Hoovervilles from the Great Depression. Hoover didn’t get much positive PR aside from this dam.

We discuss the desperation of the Great Depression is shown by the fact that the ability to line up workers for a job to do this. Tyler shares the troubling coincidence is the fact that the first and last men to die on this project were father and son.

Thinking about these human costs leads us into a discussion about the structure of incentives and penalties that drove the owners of Six Companies to push the pace of construction.

19:53 - Takeaways: Big Projects, Green Energy, Old-school Drafting
We discuss the fact that bold projects lead to emboldened people who move on to even bolder projects. Sometimes biting off more than you can chew leads to growth.

Tyler makes the point that this dam was a green-energy project long before the term “green energy” was coined. He also expresses awe at the thought that all of the drafting for this massive project would have been done by hand.

Eddie stops short of calling himself a history buff, but he expresses a deep respect for the teams of designers and workers who accomplished massive projects like this with so little help from what we consider advanced technologies.

Tyler invites you to submit your ideas for future research-based projects.

If you’re interested in additional details about the Hoover Dam, explore these sources:

• EIA.gov
• USBR.gov
• B1M video: compares the world’s largest dams to other structures
• Lake Mead historical water-level chart
• NPS.gov
• Bechtel’s page about construction of the dam
• Old publicity/education video
• Library of Congress Photos
• Video of the physics and engineering involved

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Today we bring you the last of our February series on things we love about the construction industry. Today, we're talking about variety.

When it’s Friday and you just wanna go home. What keeps you there?

Eddie and Tyler point out that you could be in a dull, repetitive cubicle job that is going to be taken over by AI. But instead, you’re in a field where you encounter something new every day.

There are tampers to ride, new guys to send out for the beam stretcher, all kinds of fresh and exciting variety. And, yes, there are new regulations, new owners, new contractors to work with. Is all that variety wonderful? Probably not. Still, it’s not dull.

So hang in there at least until lunch.

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Today we’re talking to Jeffrey Michael and Darren Draper, two commissioning agents. If you’re not sure what that means, then you’ve come to the right episode.

00:00 - Superbowl reflections
We’re not sure what we were thinking to schedule a recording session the day after the Superbowl. Also, we’re sorry that you’re listening yet again to thoughts about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce just so we can get some SEO juice.

03:21 - Introductions
Jeffrey Michael has been in the design and construction world for about 15 years, the last several of those years of that in commissioning. He discusses his earlier experience with manufacturing controls–working with automated guiding vehicles, assembly lines, welding robots, and the like. In the commercial sector, his controls expertise means that he deals with HVAC, lighting, security.

Darren Draper is Principal at the Epsten Group. He has been working in commissioning since he left college. Before that, he did summer work with his dad in HVAC work. He shares about how little he expected to end up in the world of controls.

06:56 - Commissioning - the what and the how
We ask Jeffrey and Darren to explain commissioning. Darren explains that a commissioner is there to make sure the building operates the way the owner wants it to operate. They make sure the HVAC units and anything else mechanical is operating the way it should.

Jeffrey and Darren share a bit about how they do the testing they do. The documentation and protocols involved are numerous. All of this is to ensure that the outputs within an actual building are what the design engineers intended them to be.

Darren explains that commissioners want to be hired by the owner so there’s a solid third-party objectivity. We discuss what market/industry forces led to the creation and growth of this position. As building components became increasingly complex, more buildings were reaching the end of the construction process without functioning the way they should.

18:30 - Equipping, informing, and training owners and support crews
Darren and Jeffrey explain that part of a commissioner’s function is training the owner’s repair and maintenance specialists on the nuances of their building’s systems. Many of the elements these crews will need to maintain are concealed once construction is complete.

The guys share about a recent poultry building they completed and then discuss mission-critical elements. We discuss the importance of functional redundancies that are central to the safety of those who will be using a building.

We discuss the importance of effective communication in this process–the need for people to be able to approach training with a teamwork/partnership dynamic.

32:42 - Dealing with conflict
Tyler asks the guys to share about how they deal with conflict. They share that tact is incredibly important in their work. Jeffrey talks about tactics for diffusing tension and keeping everyone focused on solutions and a building’s long-term functionality.

We discuss how the landscape of engineering, design, and construction have shifted over the years. A few decades ago, most engineers and designers contributing to a project would likely have had at least a little more boots-on-the-jobsite familiarity with the actual construction process.

Add to this the product manufacturers who sell a product that can do what it is designed to do only if it is installed properly in the proper environment and surrounded by the proper components. We also touch on outsourcing of isolated parts of the design or engineering process.

45:58 - Designing and building with the end in mind
Darren and Jeffrey discuss the importance of designing buildings with controls in mind so that the operational intent of the building is the focus. Jeffrey shares some thoughts about why this is not the way things are done.

We explore some thoughts about how disconnects in the industry could be reduced.

01:04:09 - Megaphone Message
Jeffrey: Know your worth. Also, in order to know what you do want to do, explore things so you can know what you don’t want to do.
Darren: Take pride in what you do. If you don’t like what you do, find something you do like to do and take pride in that.

Find Jeffrey on LinkedIn
Find Darren on LinkedIn

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We’re back with some more love. Today is the third episode in our “For the love of…” series.

Eddie loves solving problems. He loves seeing all of the pieces laid out in front of him and then figuring out how to put them all together.

His favorite is solving problems as part of a team. He loves to spitball ideas and build off of the ideas of his teammates until there’s a solid, impressive, satisfying result.

Tyler expresses his appreciation for the fact that construction still involves a hefty amount of face-to-face interaction when a group of people get together in a room and hash it out. With coffee, of course.

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If you enjoy the podcast, please rate us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to us! Thanks for listening!

Today we’re talking to Jennifer Wilkerson of the National Center for Construction Education and Research, where she’s now the Vice President of Innovation and Advancement. Our conversation today focuses on the recruitment and training of tomorrow’s skilled trades workforce.

01:20 - TSwift, JWilk, and the Family Welding Business
We recorded this episode pre-Superbowl, so we start out with Tyler’s speculations about a potential earth-shaking breakup that might follow the game.

Jennifer shares with us about her path from aspiring financial advisor to high school English teacher to VP of Innovation and Advancement at the NCCER. She’s now been with NCCER for 14 years.

Tyler asks Jennifer to share about how hiring has changed since the days when she and her husband started their welding business. She discusses the cultural shifts that have made it necessary to have a greater amount of structured training.

08:15 - Poaching and Jumping
Eddie refers to the retention challenges that employers face, and we discuss employee etiquette. The job market makes it a serious challenge.

Jennifer points out how much of a teacher mindset many tradespeople have. We share about how we’ve seen that within ABSI.

12:53 - NCCER
Jennifer outlines what the NCCER offers. Much of their work has to do with guiding contractors toward the rich network of organizations that can provide them with support in hiring and training employees as well as other aspects of managing their business.

She points out that many community colleges and high schools are experiencing a long-overdue pendulum swing back toward training for the trades. She mentions the spirit of cooperation at a recent American Association of Community Colleges conference.

Jennifer mentions that employers need to adjust their expectations as far as how much experience they can expect workers to have when they enter. Many of these incoming workers will have training that is wide but shallow. Employers need to be prepared to fill the gaps.

17:10 - High Schools and Shop Class
Tyler asks about the responsiveness of high schools to the return to an emphasis on shop classes. Jennifer shares how the NCCER helps high schools navigate this process.

The need is clearly there, but the infrastructure has deteriorated and significant cultural attitudes need to be addressed. Jennifer explains how culture defined success after WWII and how it has developed since then.

Eddie asks about the differences in employee demand between different regions and markets. Jennifer shares some insights on this and also touches on the advancement opportunities present within construction–including owning your own business.

25:50 - Colleges
Tyler discusses the structure of college curricula and how it provides a perceived path toward a career. He sees this as a weak point in the construction industry. Eddie talks about his son’s recent experience with a surveyor.

Jennifer shares about the fact that contractors don’t know how to reach out to schools. She discusses the persistence required to make these connections.

31:15 - Urgency and How to Take Action
Eddie asks Jennifer for some numbers. She shares these troubling ones:
-By 2025, 25% of the current workforce will retire.
-By 2028, it will be 30%. That’s almost a third of the workforce.
-For every 5 people that retire out of construction, only 1 is entering.

She points out that we have to establish a consistent presence in the schools. Eddie points out that Gen Z seems to have a “Show me the money” attitude.

Tyler asks Jennifer for action points for contractors seeking young workers, and she encourages them to go to BYF.org, NCCER’s site designed to help people build their future. The site contains packets of activities and materials for career days.

Tyler mentions the Heavy Metal Summer Experience that we discussed with Angie Simon.

Jennifer also suggests that you ask about helping math teachers with lessons that are connected to workplace application.

39:48 - Megaphone Message
Here’s Jennifer’s message to the construction industry: Carpe diem. Seize the day. Build something that will last longer than you. This is the time. Get off your a**. Get on your feet and go visit your local schools. Do something to address this problem.

Find Jennifer on LinkedIn

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Sometimes they were forged in the fire, but we have some really good relationships because of our involvement in the construction industry.

Tyler shares about his amusement at what people consider difficult in his new field of work. He says it just doesn’t compare to the challenges he encountered in construction.

Eddie encourages you to not underestimate the benefits of working really hard alongside others.

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If you enjoy the podcast, please rate us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to us! Thanks for listening!

Today we talk to Dr. Noland White, Professor of Psychology at Georgia College & State University.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Today’s conversation touches on issues of mental health. Although we hope you find the insights helpful, we want to be clear that this content is for educational purposes only. If you’re experiencing symptoms of anxiety or depression, please talk to a medical professional.

02:06 - Settling In
Dr. White gives us a run-down of his academic and professional history. We discuss the benefits of ropes courses. It’s all about facing challenges–even if you don’t overcome them.

Dr. White lists some of the courses he teaches and shares about his research pursuits. This includes everything from intimate relationships to ADHD.

07:59 - Confrontation
Tyler explains that we invited Dr. White today to talk to us about how to handle confrontation. Dr. White explains that, first of all, it’s a lot easier to know what to do than it is to actually do it.

That being said, he explains that the first step is to not take the conflict personally.

Eddie asks about the physiological responses to conflict. Dr. White talks about how these responses can be the signal that it might be time to step back. Let tempers cool. Do a “physiological sigh” and let the body’s fight or flight reflex recede. We also discuss “box breathing.”

Tyler talks about the challenges of focusing on these things in a true, real-world moment of confrontation. Dr. White says it certainly requires practice–and maybe getting feedback from your peers about how you handle situations. 17:40 - It’s Almost the Job
Eddie mentions that confrontation is a huge portion of the work done by many people in construction. He asks Dr. White to explain how to approach these situations when you know they’re coming. We discuss the importance of framing thoughtful questions that focus on the problem itself rather than the personal tensions.

Tyler confesses to blaming and assuming and also being a dumb butt. But he also says that he’s made progress toward coming to people with a more controlled tone. He mentions that self-deprecation can really help.

Eddie explains that recognizing the day as a series of confrontations–some large, some small–can lead you to maintain a readiness and keep the skillset ready for use.

25:23 - De-escalation
Tyler asks for concrete steps toward deescalation. Here’s Dr. White’s advice
-Recognize when you need to step away and digest the situation. If it can wait until you’re calmer, then wait.
-Realize that a direct confrontation doesn’t need to be bad. Front-loading of your work environment can help with this.
-Think about the best physical space and time of the day to have the conversation that needs to be had.

31:18 - Email and Tips for the Timid
Eddie requests advice for those who tend to avoid confrontation. Dr. White shares the importance of setting up strategies that enable you to have a couple productive confrontational conversations. This can break the loop that leads to an increasing fear of confrontation. Think of it as baby steps.

We discuss what to do when you’re tempted to write one of those spicy emails. Write the text and then let it sit for a few hours. Revisit it in a calmer state and revise before sending. Doris Kearns Goodwin does indeed claim that Lincoln practiced this simmer-down delayed-send routine. Several of them he never even sent.

We discuss the fact that email and text messages are ripe for misunderstanding because of the absence of nonverbal communication. Eddie mentions that he wishes he’d have held onto a few of his from years gone by.

Another solution? Pick up the dang phone. Let someone hear your tone of voice. Tyler mentions Cal Newport’s thoughts on email.

42:28 - Anxiety
Tyler asks Dr. White for an explanation of anxiety. Tyler mentions that he didn’t experience true anxiety until his 20s. Dr. White shares his thoughts: Anxiety has various physiological manifestations. Anxiety comes from various sources or social circumstances. Anxiety is your body reacting to a situation that your mind for some reason perceives as a threat.

Part of the solution is to identify the source of the anxiety. We discuss some of the ways to get above the anxiety-inducing situations. Reach out to those who are in positions to give you insights and help.

52:20 - Megaphone Message
Dr. White shares this insight: You don’t have to be perfect. You can ask for help. You don’t have to do things the way you’ve always done them. Despite all of your experiences and all you’ve done, can you imagine that someone else’s experience might have been different.

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Today we trigger our PM friends.

00:40 - Intro
We chat about our studio setup and Eddie’s perceived curmudgeonliness. Eddie insists that it’s almost always about expecting people to be a good roommate.

03:57 - Tyler is giddy.
Tyler shares about the comment thread on one of his recent LinkedIn posts. The initial post asked people to make a project manager fly off the handle in five words or less. Here are some of our favorites:

-“Cleaners erased your whiteboard.” We wonder if cleaners should carry insurance for this offense.
-“As per my last email…” We have a hard time seeing this one used in a tone that is not passive aggressive.
-“Rev 16 is being issued tomorrow.” We’ve seen the numbers climb even higher than that.
-“That is excluded from my proposal.” This one always comes six months down the road.
-“Why is the OSHA truck outside?” We throw Dad under the bus with a story from OSHA’s early days.
-“You see the new plans?” We can all work together to make sure this one goes extinct. Eddie submits a plea that people don’t nudge elements when you’re tempted to.
- “They’ve been scanned in.” …Meaning you can expect some coffee stains.

24:15 - Our additions and some honorable mentions
Eddie shares a trigger phrase that he didn’t share on LinkedIn: “Yeah, but you lost your slot.” He shares some thoughts about the chain of events that leads to this one. Someone is wanting to put everyone else on pause.

We run through a few more responses:
-“That’s above my pay grade.”
-“I may not have said that, but that’s what the consultant’s intent was.”
-“The permits were never obtained.”

30:03 - Confessions
We also posted an invitation for people to share about bizarre project-manager-related stories you’ve experienced or heard. Here are some highlights from that one.
-A traveling employee who angered his girlfriend by visiting a specific sort of club
-A worker who went AWOL under suspicious circumstances
-The contractor who demonstrated his objections to excessive meetings by painting figurines in the corner of the meeting room

We invite you to share some more via DMs.

36:52 - Meetings
We discuss the merits and annoyances of meetings. Are they necessary? Well, yeah, for sure they are to a point. Can we all agree to manage them as thoughtfully as possible, though?

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We’ve reached our fourth and final episode focused on resolutions.

This week, after we wade through some brotherly tensions, Eddie encourages you to identify someone who is “below” you in the business and take them out to eat.

As he said last week, don’t make it weird! Just be intentional about creating space where trust can be established and advice can be shared. Make it clear that you’re available if they have questions. That’s all.

Check out the partners that make our show possible.

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If you enjoy the podcast, please rate us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to us! Thanks for listening!