Conversations as you Go

In this second episode with Aila Tasse, the conversation goes deeper into the mindset and character of a movement leader. Drawing mainly from Acts 20:17–32 and the early chapters of Acts, Aila reflects on dependence on God, obedience, Kingdom vision, leadership multiplication, and modelling the life of Jesus. At the heart of the episode is the conviction that disciple-making movements are sustained through developing obedient, reproducing leaders.

Key Takeaways

1. Dependancy on God

John 15: “Remain in me” — movement leadership begins with dependence on God, continual prayer, and following the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1:8 gave the early church a roadmap beyond Jerusalem, but growth and internal needs distracted them from Kingdom expansion.

Acts 8:1 shows how persecution pushed the church into Judea and Samaria — God will often move His people toward obedience and mission.

2. Having a Kingdom Mindset

Keep the focus on the Kingdom of God, not methods, brands, or labels like “DMM” or “T4T”.

Kingdom leaders seek collaboration rather than tribalism or competition between ministries.

The vision is disciples making disciples until the whole world hears and follows Jesus.

3. Motivation for Movement

Habakkuk 2:14 reminds us that God desires the earth to be filled with His glory.

Movement is motivated by the Father’s heart for lost sons and daughters (Luke 15 – the prodigal son).

The mission is ultimately about God’s love for the lost, not building our own ministries.

4. Teaching Obedience

Focus on teaching obedience to Scripture, not just increasing knowledge.

Transformation comes through practicing what Jesus taught, not simply knowing more.

God often uses ordinary, obedient believers powerfully, regardless of education or status.

5. Downloading Ourselves into Others

Paul modelled transferring spiritual DNA and leadership into others (Acts 20).

“Disciple-making movement = leader development. No leaders, no movement.”

Every disciple should be developed into a reproducing disciple-maker and leader.

6. Taking Care of Ourselves

Acts 20:28: “Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock” — leaders must care for themselves as well as others.

Many movement leaders burn out because they neglect rest, sabbath, and spiritual renewal.

Healthy and sustainable movements require healthy leaders.

7. Other Characteristics of Movement Leaders

Movement leaders stay teachable: willing to listen, learn, obey, and grow.

They invest deeply in others, modelling the life of a disciple rather than simply teaching principles.

Collaboration and Kingdom partnership are essential for long-term multiplication.

8. Final Encouragement

1 Peter 5:2–3: shepherd God’s people by being an example.

1 Thessalonians 2:7–8: Paul shared not only the gospel, but his very life.

Movement leadership is about modelling humility, grace, weakness, and faithful obedience to Jesus.

In this episode, Aila reflects on a DBS on Acts 20:17–32 (last episode) and what it means to think like a movement leader. At the core is the heart: movements belong to God, not us. As we follow Jesus’ example, we’re called to faithful stewardship—trusting that God is the one who begins, sustains, and multiplies.

1. Movements Belong to God 

Like Paul, leaders prepare others even if they won’t “see the results”

We don’t own or control movements—God does

Parable of the Tenants (Matt 21:33–46): we are stewards, not owners

Holding onto what isn’t ours can lead to it being “taken away”

God can spark movement anywhere—even where it seems impossible

2. Humility & Self-Emptying (Acts 20:18–19)

“I served the Lord with great humility and with tears…” (v.19)

Pride quietly kills movements—humility sustains them

Follow Jesus’ model: daily surrender and self-emptying

Be catalysts—point to God, not ourselves

Leave no trail of personal glory; make disciples of Jesus, not of us

3. Focus on the Task (Acts 20:24)

“My only aim is to finish the race and complete the task…” (v.24)

This is a marathon, not a sprint—perseverance matters

Stay focused despite pressure, praise, or hardship

Don’t chase numbers or outcomes—trust God for fruit

Depend on God daily: fruit grows naturally, not by force

“I’ve never seen a tree that forces itself to bear fruit. Trees bear fruit naturally. But there are things that you have to do with the tree so they can bear fruit.”

In this recording, Aila Tassie isn't just speaking; he is leading a room of Australian movement leaders through a Discovery Bible Study (DBS) on the final words of the Apostle Paul. It is a raw, interactive session where the "expert" intentionally steps back to let the community discover what it truly means to lead a movement.

What does a movement leader leave behind when they know they will never see their people again?

You’ll hear a diverse group of practitioners grappling with the "mind shift" required to move from being a professional manager of a church to an "ordinary catalyst" of a movement. It’s a conversation about tears, severe testing, and the terrifying yet beautiful act of entrusting a mission entirely to the Holy Spirit.

"Paul says, 'You saw my life. I don't have to tell you about my life.' As a catalyst, I lived among you... and he was not ashamed to tell them that." — Aila Tassie

What if the greatest threat to your mission isn't the world outside, but the ego within?

We explore:

The Power of Tears: Why humility and vulnerability are the primary currencies of a movement.

The "Stay or Go" Tension: How to know when you’ve done enough to hand the reins over to the Spirit.

The Australian Context: Real talk from local leaders on overcoming the fear of reputation and the lure of the "Comfort Zone."

If you’ve ever wondered if your leadership is building an institution or a movement, the answer lies in how you handle your exit.

Before God calls anyone to "go," He first calls them to "follow."

We often focus on the results of leadership—the numbers, the movements, and the strategies. But what if the most powerful thing a leader can do is simply unlearn everything they thought they knew? In this episode, we dive into a deep, vulnerable conversation from the Movement Leaders Weekend in Melbourne.

You'll hear from Aila Tassie, a movement leader who has seen the Gospel multiply across nearly 180 unreached people groups, alongside Roy Moran and Dave Lawton. Together, they explore the radical "mind shift" required to move away from professionalized, knowledge-based ministry toward an intimate, ordinary walk with Jesus.

What does it mean to truly gather as a movement church today? In this episode, Roy Moran challenges the traditional "Sunday morning" legacy model, asking a vital question: what does a gathering look like that brings life but doesn't breed dependency? Drawing from his experience transitioning a traditional congregation into a "hybrid church" strategy, Roy unpacks the gritty realities of planting multiplying, biblically flourishing communities. Whether you are wrestling with the limitations of consumer-driven religion or looking for ways to spark true disciple-making movements that reach people far from God, this conversation will push you to deeply rethink how, where, and why we meet.

Roy Moran kicks off a leaders weekend in City (last year in October 2025) with a powerful recap and vision for disciple-making movements.

He shares key insights from global movements, including:

What defines a movement (100+ churches across 4 generations)

The scale of impact through New Generations (3M+ people, 177,000 groups)

Why the gospel must not just grow—but scale

Key Themes

The Father’s Heart: God is building a family—He is a lovesick Father pursuing His children

Generators > Generations: Focus on forming people who multiply

Movement Dynamics: The gospel spreads virally through relationships, not programs

Western Challenge: Many need to rediscover God’s heart—not just forgiveness, but family and mission

Simple Obedience: Real multiplication happens when people engage Scripture and obey.

Key Insight

Roy shares real stories of multiplication—from college campuses to families—showing that what’s happening globally is beginning to take root in the West.

“God has chosen to need you… to pour His truth through your life.”

Also Covered

Diffusion of innovation (20/80 principle)

Communicating without “church language”

Practical tools (including an AI DMM coach: Put this WhatsApp Number to the test: +1 816 284 8470)

Prayer

Roy closes with a prayer, calling us back to the joy of the Father’s family—and the invitation to join the family business of finding those not yet home.

Final Reflection:

If the gospel is meant to multiply, what would it look like in your life to see it move virally through your relationships, networks, and culture?

Introduction

In this final episode with Roy Moran from his time with us in the Dandenong Ranges (Melbourne, 2025), we explore how to help local churches embrace Disciple Making Movements (DMM). Roy challenges our posture—calling us to humility, service, and a true Kingdom heart as we seek to empower others rather than bring ready-made solutions.

Managing the Tension Between Traditional Church and DMM

Come with humility, not superiority

Don’t approach as someone who has “figured it out.”

Come with questions, not answers (e.g. “What do you dream for in this community?”)

Discover what drives people before offering anything.

Discern shared vision

If there’s no shared goal, it’s okay to move on.

Most church leaders are not ill-intentioned—they genuinely want God’s Kingdom to come but often feel constrained by existing systems.

Asking them to change everything can feel like asking them to “commit suicide” within their context—so empathy is essential.

Start Personally, Not Institutionally

Infusion of innovation diagram

Don’t wait for permission or structures—begin disciple-making in your own life.

Reach out to the lost, experiment, and live it out before trying to implement it in a church system.

Focus on function over form.

Understanding the Innovation Gap

Early adopters respond to vision; the majority responds to story and social proof.

Don’t try to replace a church’s “complete system” with your “pieces and parts.”

Instead, humbly offer what you have and let it grow.

A Posture That Opens Doors

Ask: “How can I help?”

Avoid pushing solutions until invited.

When asked, respond gently as one without all the answers.

Plant a garden, don’t force growth

Share stories.

Offer small, relevant resources.

Look for hunger and respond to it.

Don’t overwhelm—don’t feed a baby with a firehose!

Honour always

Affirm the work already done.

Never tear down—build up.

Creating Space: “Building a Wall”

Help churches create separation between traditional structures and DMM efforts.

Encourage them to release people to make disciples.

Keep things informal and low-key—avoid over-structuring.

Start small with a committed group focused on reaching the lost.

Strategy: Quiet, Humble, Relational

Go under the radar—don’t self-promote.

Stay low, honour others, and avoid drawing attention.

Under-promise and over-deliver.

If people start promoting you—step back.

Key Quote

“The gap between vision and multiplying reality is closed by one simple thing - people and connection.”

Real movement leadership is relational, messy, and slow.

It requires vulnerability, patience, and deep investment in people—not just strategies or systems.

Final Prayer (Summary)

Roy closes by praying for:

God’s power beyond our human understanding

Fruitfulness and Kingdom multiplication

Divine appointments with people ready for transformation

Courage to pursue “impossible” Kingdom dreams

Humility—even through refining and difficulty

A deep awareness of our identity as children of God

Final Encouragement

As we conclude this series with Roy:

Reflect on what you’ve heard across these episodes

Ask:

How is God speaking to me?

What is my response?

Take the next step—simply, humbly, and with others.

What role should organisation play in disciple-making movements? In this episode, Roy Moran explores how structure, function, and money can either fuel or hinder movements.

“The question is not the presence of structure, the question is whether the structure is being served or serving.” — Roy Moran

Form and Function in Movements

Movements are often described as organic, but every living organism has structure. Because we are created in the image of a triune God who exists in community, forming tribes, teams, and simple structures is part of our nature.

The issue is not whether movements have structure, but what the structure serves. Healthy movements keep structures lightweight and low-maintenance, designed to support disciple-making rather than replace it.

Roy highlights a key principle: Form always follows function.

Movements begin with making disciples. As disciples multiply, forms of church and leadership naturally emerge. But when people try to create the form first and then add disciple-making later, the result often struggles.

Video (played in the podcast – audio only):

Roy references Buurtzorg, a healthcare organisation in the Netherlands that shows how a large organisation can operate with lightweight structures, strong values, and decentralised decision-making that empowers local teams — watch here.

The Role of Money

Money can also derail movements if it creates dependency.

“If money causes dependency, then money kills movement.”

Healthy movements emphasise local generosity and stewardship, where resources serve real needs—caring for community, enabling mission, and supporting training—without creating unhealthy dependence.

Questions to Reflect On

Are the structures around us allowing form to follow function, or are we trying to force the function to fit the form?

When it comes to money, are we strengthening mission—or unintentionally creating dependency that could stall the movement?

In this short episode, Roy Moran shares practical insights on facilitating Discovery Bible Studies (DBS) without becoming a bottleneck. He encourages leaders to be ruthless about empowering others to facilitate, allowing people to “fail forward” as they learn.

Roy explains that the simple DBS process is built around three core values: helping people hear from God, respond in obedience, and share with others. The seven DBS questions function like a simple liturgy—repeatable, memorable, and designed to keep the focus on Scripture rather than the facilitator’s teaching.

He also challenges listeners to develop deep self-awareness. Our habits from traditional church can unintentionally get in the way, so ongoing reflection and “ruthless inventory” are needed to keep giving the process away.

Reflect: How can I step back and avoid becoming a bottleneck when new Discovery Groups begin?

In this short episode, we continue our series with Roy Moran as he explains disciple-making movements in simple, everyday language. Starting with the question, “What does God want?” Roy describes how he would explain movements on the back of a napkin—beginning with who God is and His relational heart for people. Rather than starting with jargon like “DMM,” Roy shows how movements are simply the natural outcome of God at work as disciples multiply and a culture of replication takes shape.

Reflect: How would you explain disciple-making movements in everyday language?