Conversations as you Go

In this episode, Dave connects with Rich Robinson, leader of the Movement Leaders Collective, during his time in Nairobi, Kenya. Rich brings profound insights into pioneering leadership in Western contexts, emphasizing biblical faithfulness and cultural adaptability. His reflections inspire movement leaders to take risks and embrace new paradigms for making disciples in a rapidly changing world.

Key Themes & Takeaways:

• New Paradigms for Ekklesia (Church):

People often resist alternative forms of church that fit today’s mission context. Rich unpacks how these “vehicles” can serve the Kingdom.

• Insights from Rich’s Book, All Change:

Rooted in the Gospel of Luke, Rich outlines four phases of Jesus as a leader who pioneered a movement:

1. Catalyst (Luke 1–5): Unlocking dreams and vision.

2. Discover (Luke 6–11): Coaching small groups and building discipleship.

3. Design (Luke 12–22): Teaching Kingdom principles that can be contextualized.

4. Deploy (Luke 22–24): Mobilizing disciples for mission.

Rich’s book provides language for pioneering leaders to articulate the vision God has placed on their hearts.

👉 Explore free resources: allchangejourney.com/resources

👉 Get the book: Amazon Link

• Western Urban Challenges:

Rich explores how Western cities, with their fractured relational networks and competition for time, differ from rural contexts. He highlights how:

• Urban relationships are affinity-based, not geographically based.

• Missionaries need to find “people or places of peace” and experiment with connecting points (e.g. community needs, mental health, or physical care).

• Western urban contexts are complex, like a Rubik’s Cube, requiring us to stop, look, and listen to God’s work.

• Encouragement for us as leaders:

• Acts 4:13 reminds us that ordinary people, with the presence of Jesus, can be bold leaders.

• Leadership involves faithful obedience, learning from mistakes, and remaining passionate in discipleship.

• Find others to share the journey with—pray, encourage, and pioneer together.

Final Challenge to Listeners:

“Wherever God has placed you, be a disciple, be good news, and make disciples who make disciples. You’re not alone—find your community of pioneers and step boldly into the work of the Kingdom.”

📖 Scripture Highlight: Acts 4:13

🎙 Guest Links:

• Movement Leaders Collective

• Rich Robinson’s Book: All Change

Let’s journey together as we explore what it means to lead faithfully in complex, urban mission fields.

We reconnect with Jim Britts, author of 21 Days to Becoming a Disciple Maker, whilst both he and Dave gather in Africa with other DMM leaders. In this episode, we get an update from Jim from the States of some of the highlights happening around him with both his own community and collaborating with others. Highlights such as doing a ‘push week’.

A push week is when people come together from different places and focus on the harvest for a few days. Finding and then following up people of peace for the remainder of the week is what this ‘push’ is all about. The week can be covered in ‘live prayer’ through, for example, group messaging. This is a great way to get ‘unstuck’ for people who want to bring together a few others to engage a particular harvest field together.

“Breakthrough happens through coaching – when someone helps you walk through doors that they have already walked through”

Choosing this journey of making disciple is choosing a journey of rejection. Discouragement can come with this. Jim then asked us this question: ‘Will you do disciple making only if others are doing it with you or if God brings the fruit? Or are you doing disciple-making for the rest of your life? Instead of an ‘only if‘, we need to have an ‘even if‘ mentality. Even if our dreams aren’t met or even if everyone else walks away.

Today we have the privilege of hearing from Tom and Sophie Butler who have intentionally placed themselves in the multicultural suburb of Auburn in West Sydney. They have an awesome vision of seeing multiplying hubs established all across the city. Be blessed as you hear their heart and stories of how God has called them into DMM and how lost people around them in Sydney are being impacted by Jesus.

Tom and Sophie have spent almost 5 years pursuing God’s call to see disciple making movements birthed in Sydney. They share how exposure to DMM as late teenagers influenced them to follow God’s lead and start Discovery Groups with old school friends and jump into Auburn for the last two years. Jesus’ focus on discipling the lost and his unconditional love has captured their hearts to fully embrace God’s vision for the nations in and beyond Sydney. 

These guys have been intentionally reaching out amongst the nations in Auburn, seeing Discovery Bible Studies start in places like a local Mosque and seeing people’s lives transformed by Jesus. Tom shares a powerful story of seeing a young Nepalese man reconciled with his father after responding to one of Jesus’ parables.

Tom and Sophie are part of a team called ‘Fruitpickers’ who carry a vision of seeing catalytic teams in every urban centre of Sydney and across Australia. They dream of seeing Discovery Groups grow into simple and organic churches amongst every people and affinity group of the city and into the nations. 

Tom reflects on Jesus’ parable of the persistent widow (Luke 18:1-8):

“Movement will take sustained effort for a long time. Jesus is asking us, ‘Will I find faith on earth when I come?’ Will we maintain faith that a movement is not only possible but it is God’s will and desire?”

Sophie finishes the podcast by praying for us and says, “Don’t let the fear of making mistakes get in the way of living out the call of God on your life!” 

Before moving on from this podcast, allow Jesus to ask you, “Will I find faith on earth when I come?”. Ask yourself, “Is fear of making mistakes creeping into my life as a disciple maker?”. Pray for God to give you fresh faith to take risks in pursuing his heart for disciple making movements in your context.

In this podcast, we jump into a word of encouragement that Dave gave to the Thailand ’24 gathering with some of our international leaders. As a group, we’d just done a Discovery Bible Study (DBS) from the story of Jesus crossing the lake with his disciples, encountering and stilling a great storm and then encountering another storm of spiritual warfare when confronting the demoniac upon arrival in the Decapolis. We explore the themes of fear and faith from the reflections of this DBS found in Mark 4:35-5:41. 

God is in partnership with us and the whole of creation. He calls us out to “go” and be apostolic. To be ‘sent ones’. However we will always confront fear as we respond to his call to “go”, just like in this story. 

Like the people in the story, we will face different fears as we join in God’s work of kingdom advancement. We are called to respond with faith in Jesus who is power and authority. 

This story is a story of taking new ground for the kingdom of God. The storm that this story is talking about is one that comes from a response to God’s call to “go” and see the Kingdom of God advance in a new place. 

‘Faith is about prayer and hearing the voice of the Spirit and then obedience to God.’

We are to listen to God’s kingdom advance plan in the place of prayer. All apostolic advancement begins in prayer. As we pray, God speaks to ‘go’. Just as God must have spoken to Jesus about going into this new gentile region, God always speaks to us about not settling for where we are right now. Vision birthed by God is always bigger than what we can handle. This is because it is God’s vision not ours.

“Without the element of risk, there is no need for faith” (Hudson Taylor). 

As we step into the boat, fear always comes up against faith. Fear can cause us to withdraw. However apostolic advancement happens through our obedience and faith in Jesus, knowing his presence in ‘our boat’.

When God calls us into new territories, we will run into spiritual powers and forces of darkness like in this story. But can put our faith in Jesus’ presence that comes and surrounds us as we obediently go, responding to Jesus’ words in the Great Commissions…

“And surely I will am with you always” (Matthew 28:20)

“Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit”. (John 20:21-22)

“Obey Jesus. Go where he is calling you. Let it be birthed by the Spirit. He will lead us into dark places. Don’t compare yourself to others. You have ground God has called you to. It will require you to have faith in Jesus when fear confronts you. Go, take the land God is calling you to. Expect more than what you have right now!”

We continue listening to part 2 of Rey’s case study from the Hong Kong team sharing at our Thailand 24 gathering. In this second episode Rey shares with us exciting stories of how multiplication is happening from Hong Kong back into his home country, all across the Philippines. 

Rey shares how DMM will only work if it is fully embraced. He finishes by sharing what he calls the head, heart and hands operating system of DMM: 

After listening to Rey, ask yourself this question: “How can the Gospel spread and multiply in my context?”

*In the last episode, Rey calls a DBS a DOBS (Discovery Obedience Bible Study) since he says “there can only be movement if there is obedience”.

We continue our Thailand 24 gathering series as we listen to case studies from around the world. In this episode, we listen to Rey from the Hong Kong team. In this first of two episodes, you’ll hear how God prepares a person. This includes the tests that happen in the life of a leader as they seek to embrace God’s vision for movements. 

We hear how God called Rey and his wife Ethel (both from the Philippines) to pioneer disciple making amongst filipino maids (foreign domestic workers) in Hong Kong. It began by being exposed to movements from around the world. However their church and community were not convinced about DMM with no obvious initial results. 

After stepping out of traditional church leadership, Rey shares how God said to him, “Work for me, don’t work for money.” After praying and fasting, God told Rey, “If you want a church to do DMM with in Hong Kong, then why don’t you start one?”. This led to Rey starting a new ‘DOBS’ in a park. Rey calls DBS (Discovery Bible Study) a ‘DOBS’ with the O standing for Obedience. 

“We cannot have DMM without obedience.”

“When foreign domestic workers in Hong Kong retire, everyone can bring DMM home.”

Rey and his team tells them, “First you are a missionary to Hong Kong. Then if you train well and master the DBS and DMM principles, you can go back and make disciples when you go home. And we will support you!”

There are many integrity tests God leads us through as he calls us. As you listen to this podcast, ask yourself this question: What’s God’s challenge to you as you hear Rey’s story?

In this episode, you will hear a particular case study coming out of South Asia as one of the movement leaders to shares with us. 

The podcast begins by encouraging us to keep things simple. Just share the Word and allow the Holy Spirit to help us apply the Bible in our lives. If we keep things simple, multiplication of disciples, leaders and churches can happen. 

Leaders in DMM are intentional about seeking to make another leader. Ministry without leadership cannot stand. Jesus himself created leaders that multiplied. Multiplying church happens on the back of multiplying ordinary disciples and leaders. 

There is no hierarchy in DMM, at the core, everyone is a disciple. 

“If you are a good disciple, you are a good leader. If you are a good leader, you are a good pastor. If you are not a disciple, how can you be a good pastor and leader?”

One of his leaders shares with us how he started with 12 traditional house groups but he soon caught the vision of DMM and started to implement some of the DNA. 

“I used to think, ‘I am the boss’. Now I know that God is pleased with our obedience not our knowledge. These days I am giving authority to local leaders and churches are multiplying as a result! Today we have 126 house groups with 70 leaders across 70 villages. Our vision is to reach all 700 villages in our district which consists of 1.6 million people.” 

He shares how his teams create short and long term Discovery Bible Study stories. They coach their leaders through their challenges after six months of DMM training. 

“Just like human children, our leaders need to learn to eat by themselves after six months.” 

The podcast finishes by urging us to pray:

“We have 1.4 billion people. Official statistics say that 3% are Christian however we believe that it is more like 6%. Please keep praying for us!“

We continue our Thailand gathering series and hear part one of a two part case study of what God is doing in South Asia. The leader shares part of his journey into DMM and his current context which now sees over 2000 churches planted down to over 10 generations deep.

We hear how the vision of ‘ordinary’ people leading from the beginning captured his heart as he stepped out of traditional church ministry. He share’s how he was attracted to DMM because of how it is centered on obedience to God’s Word and multiplication.

These days, the leader and his team meet people where they are at and train them in DMM. They keep things really simple so that anyone can easily apply and multiply what they learn.

Persecution is an everyday challenge. Matthew 28:16-20 is what encourages his team when they are faced with persecution. Their response is to pray for endurance and courage since they know persecution will not stop but keep coming.

“We are not praying that persecution will stop. No, it will come. The one thing matters to us is endurance and courage.”

Finally, He gives us a brief insight into the challenges he and his leaders are facing to see DMM in the South Asian context. Firstly, the cultural barriers of the diverse harvest fields in the region. They are seeking to continue trying to contextualize the gospel when connecting with new peoples. Secondly, the traditional church is another barrier for them.

This is our first episode of a new series from our Thailand 24 gathering. This gathering saw fruitful movement leaders come together from 15 nations. This introduction from Dave is a call to collaborate with others as we build team. Dave draws us into a reflection on the resurrection of Christ and his triumphant procession. He hear how Jesus gave the gifts of people as an establishment of his movement. 

Movement methods or tactics are tools in our tool belts. They include:

The strategy applies the methods. It is the view of saturation of a region, people group, city or state. How do we create a momentum of leaders and workers that will ‘fill the area’ with the teachings of Jesus? It includes a focus on building catalytic hubs of leaders, bound together by a common vision and strategy. 

When Christ ascended on high he led a host of captives (like a Roman Caesar), and he gave gifts to men (2 Corinthians 2:14-16, Psalms 68:18). The gift of God in the context of the resurrection are people. He gave gifts to men… he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers (Ephesians 4:7-12). 

When God wants to start a movement, he gives gifts. His gifts are people. You are that gift. That’s why you matter so much. But we are not enough. Our big task is to multiply workers. You can start … but 100 can create a saturation movement. God wants to multiply workers through you. Focus on building catalytic hubs of leaders, bound together by a common vision and strategy. 

Image: Triunph(us) Caesaris (The triumph of Julius Caesar), plate 6. Andrea Andreani, fl. 1584-1610 – Library of Congress Prints and Photographs Division. http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/cph.3g02830

We continue our conversation with Scott and hear him share about the kingdom of God and our participation in it as we simplify our walk with God in complex cities.

“The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!” (Mark 1:15).

Scott begins by giving us an overview of the kingdom of God from a biblical perspective. Drawing from Mark 1:15, Scott shares how the gospel is itself the kingdom. It is where we participate in God ruling over us.

Scott described the kingdom of God as an upside down triangle where everyone can listen and obey God, helping others do the same. Luke 10 gives us a glimpse of Jesus’ excitement (and the disciples’ astonishment!) of how the kingdom of God is for everyone, even the unlearned and ordinary.

‘At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children….Then he turned to his disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see. For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.” (Luke 10:21,23-24)

Scott also shares an analogy of the kingdom being like poured out wine. We need to keep in mind that our Christian culture or ‘wineskins’ are not necessary the most helpful vessels of God’s kingdom for some people.

Some keys can include:

Check out Scott’s blog here.

Check out the ‘Two Four Eight’ movement website here.

Scott finishes by encouraging us to keep our discipleship walk simple…

“Simply ask, ‘Am I listening, trusting and obeying God? And am I helping others do the same?’ This is all we need to do. God will guide us when we give him space…He wants sons and daughters who are living and sharing life with him. He will work the fruit out!”