The Sunday Times’ tech correspondent Danny Fortson brings on Dr John Ioannadis to talk about why the coronavirus response could be an “evidence fiasco" (0:00), the China model (3:20), the importance of testing (5:00), the case of the Diamond Princess (6:35), and of Italy (9:45), Imperial College's estimates (13:25), the problem with models (16:45), a lack of historical precedent (18:20), the monumental failure of not having tests (21:35), scaling up testing (24:25), and herd immunity (27:25). PLUS, Claes Gustafsson, co founder of ATUM Bio, to talk about the company’s work making copies of coronavirus (33:00), how this compares to other outbreaks (34:25), the rush for a cure (38:15), and being partially shut down by the government (41:00).

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