Creative Genius Podcast

All designers aim to create environments for their clients that will improve their lives and support their health and wellness. In the execution of those designs, that often focus on functionality and aesthetics, other areas of wellbeing may get overlooked. Taking a broader, more holistic approach to client needs and the connection of the space to the natural environment can produce additional benefits.

In this episode, Gail welcomes back to the podcast Matthew Tenzin, principal designer with Joe McGuire Design, with offices in Aspen, Boulder and Denver, Colorado. Previously Matthew appeared in an episode with the firm’s founder and partner, Joe McGuire. A former Buddhist monk, Matthew has had a lifelong love for creativity and interconnectivity with spirituality and the natural world.

In 2017, Joe and Matthew launched a Holistic Design Consultancy, now known as Home Within, where they focus on offering the healthy, sustainable and energy-balancing aspects of their design process. Matthew explained that their method is to examine the project in the context of five levels of holistic wellbeing in the home, taking a top-down approach. Those are the spiritual and/or sacred level, a wellness vision, symbolic or meaningful level, sensory level and functional level.

Matthew said that normally the energetic level in the home is not addressed in traditional building and design. He explained that spaces contain residual energies from previous inhabitants that can affect the current residents, either for good or for ill. From an energy perspective, the space may be out of balance and require cleansing before any other work is undertaken.

Connectivity is also central to their process. Matthew urged designers to make more of an effort to connect with their clients. “If only the designer could just breathe and slow down for a minute to connect with client, it’s amazing what can come out of that,” he said. Connecting to the natural environment is also essential. “If we can’t connect to the planet and the whole from our home, where are we going to do that?” he noted.

Matthew also talked about how the firm is using a new wellness space they opened up next to their studio and their work with indigenous communities in the rain forests of South America.

Listen to the entire podcast for more details and insights from Matthew.

If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s12e3-shownotes

Mentioned in This Podcast

For more information about Matthew and Joe McGuire Design, go to the firm’s website at www.joemcguiredesign.com.

For more information about their wellness consultancy, Home Within, go to the firm’s website at www.homewithin.com.

Listen to the previous podcast with Matthew and Joe discussing ways designers can break out of the cycle of constant business ups and downs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-ZgO8K21sU

Episode Transcript

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Welcome to the Creative Genius podcast, Matthew. You've been with us before, but our listeners might not have heard that episode. So we're gonna dive right in. So how did you become a designer? Tell us about that. Well, hi, Gail. Thanks for having me back. Of course. It's wonderful. I always love chatting with you and I'm excited to get to talk a little more with your listeners. So yeah, I became an interior designer in a little bit of an unusual way.

didn't go to design school, my background was more, I was more interested in fine art. And even though as a kid, I told people I wanted to be an interior designer, I grew up in a very conservative Christian family and community. And I think at the time when I said I wanted to be an interior designer, it was a teacher and I can't remember which one said, well, that's what women do. So you should be an architect. And so that sort of planted a seed of.

Okay, well, I'll explore architecture. And that wasn't quite my thing. And then I got into painting and that led through a whole creative and spiritual path, I guess, of exploration. When I was living in Chicago, I got to hear the Dalai Lama talk and I went to hear him and got very into meditation, ended up becoming a Buddhist monk for a number of years, for about five and a half years living in retreat.

But I always had a very creative aspect of my being and I wanted to, after my time as a monk, which was an incredible life-changing time, I wanted to figure out how to integrate what I'd learned and express it creatively. I also felt a real deep connection to nature and to the planet and that's something that's always been a part of my life and I wanted to find a way to do something meaningful or beneficial to help others feel more connected.

to nature and to the planet because it felt like we wouldn't do the things we do to the planet if we felt more connected to it. And right after my time as a monk, I met my husband, Joe, in Aspen at a talk by the Dalai Lama. We just happened to be sitting next to each other. And he was an established interior designer in Aspen. He'd been designing homes there for many years at that point. But he also had a background of interest in meditation and

healing arts, he had gone to massage school, he had lived at the Dalai Lama's monastery and taught English before I was there. And so we had all these overlapping interests and we were really soulmates, know, it was meant to be. And so we started, you know, dating and, you know, became partners in life. And then over a few years, we started working together in design as well after tagging along with him on projects and things. Eventually he got

a number of projects and needed help. And he's like, well, what do you think about helping me? And I thought, okay, great, let's give it a shot. And that was 12 years ago. So I really learned through working with Joe, as well as just, you know, so much of it is just intuitive and a part of me, or there was sort of a natural impulse to design spaces, even from a young age. it's an unusual path.

but I feel so grateful for it. It is so fascinating. And every time I hear you talk about being a Buddhist monk, I just try to imagine what would that be like? Because that is such a different lifestyle than what you have now. And of course, it informs what you're doing. But and we'll talk about that a little bit more. But what was that like? What was the difference in how you felt about yourself versus?

now that you're away from that. What is that like? Yeah, I mean, it's it's something that's it's really hard to to put into words, of course, because it's just such a such a powerful experience. It's just so different from from the way that that pretty much all of us live. I felt really lucky. Like most days I felt like I won the lottery to have the opportunity to fully immerse in nature. For two and a half years, I was

in solitary retreat. So I would go for six or seven months at a time without seeing another human being, including other monks. There were a few of us in little cabins in this remote valley in Big Sur. So we were kind of over a ridge in a valley tucked in near the ocean, but we couldn't see the ocean. just to have the opportunity to immerse in meditation all day, that connection to nature and to

the web of life, you become very sensitive to things when meditating that much. Wasn't exposed to any news about the outside world. I would get letters when I would come out for those breaks and I would see my teachers and then go back in. And so to have that opportunity to not be distracted by devices and email and news and all that we have to process on a daily basis.

That was an amazing opportunity. when doing that, become, think, I mean, when anybody meditates, I know you meditate, we've talked about that before. We just naturally become more sensitive because we start to slow down and tune into the present moment, which is what meditation is, mindfulness especially, is being aware of what's arising in the present. And then we start to notice things that we didn't notice before. And they've always been there, but we just didn't tune into it.

thoughts, our emotions, the breeze, the sensation on our skin, the way we're breathing, the way we're sitting, we start to open and sense in a deeper, richer way. And that's just an incredible opportunity to do, especially in nature, because it opened up this feeling of connection to the web of life. I felt like I was communicating with nature. I would notice that I would have certain prayers or thoughts or intentions.

that would seem to be reflected in nature around me, in the animals, in the plants. And at times on the non-physical level, when you meditate deeply, you start to have connections on a more subtle level and where I was really sensitive to the energy of spaces and places, as well as to non-physical beings that have become kind of a part of my reality. I know a part of most world religions or spiritual traditions acknowledge

the possibility of life beyond the physical body. so that was such an interesting thing to learn about and to experience and to feel was real. so even though I was in solitude, I didn't feel alone. I felt so much more connected than I had ever felt before. How interesting, because that's something that you would think, I guess you would, some people might.

assume that you would be lonely because you weren't interacting with people. But this is a whole different level as you're describing. So interesting. were moments of loneliness for sure, you that would arise when I think about my family, friends, and just with that craving to be around people and to talk to people. you get used to emotions like that, thoughts like that arising and passing and, and, coming back to

the moment into the beauty and the present and to the sense of connection that I had there with

Many interior designers are uncomfortable with the idea of selling their services to a client. For them, the word “selling” carries a connotation of persuading someone to buy something that maybe they don’t want or can’t afford. There are other ways to approach a sale, however. Keep in mind that prospective clients are looking for help from you, the expert. Explain to them what you have to offer and explore whether you are a good fit for each other.

In this episode, Gail talks with Shannyn Lee, managing director of Win Without Pitching, based in Kaslo, British Columbia, Canada. Shannyn stated the firm seeks to help people in the interior design industry and others to learn to sell more professionally.

Shannyn stressed that designers need to accept that “it’s okay to sell and price like the experts they are.” She said a professional sales approach is a combination of understanding the client’s mindset and then giving them a framework for the different conversations that happen during the sales process. Let them know they have choices and options.

From the designer’s perspective, said Shannyn, think of the discussion with the prospective client not as an opportunity to pitch a sale but as a qualifying conversation. Leave room for the client to open up and talk about what they want, what’s motivating them to make a change. You’re looking to see if you’re a good fit for each other. You may find that you have reservations about taking on this project or working with this client.

“It’s okay to have power in the sale,” said Shannon. She advises that before meeting with the prospective client that designers repeat a helpful mantra: “I am the expert. I am the price to be won. I am on a mission to help. I will only be able to help you if you let me lead. All will not follow, and that is okay.”

For many designers, Shannyn said, it’s a matter of getting “comfortably uncomfortable” with selling. They just need to shift their mindset that it’s okay. “When you have the right mindset, typically the correct behaviors follow.” Keep in mind it takes a lot of practice to build up your confidence. Work on your skills and give it time.

Shannyn noted some common mistakes designers make when selling or pitching a project. She also discussed why the better option for some designers might be not to sell but rather to hire a business development person to handle that side of the business.

For all that and more, listen to the entire podcast.

If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s12e2-shownotes

Mentioned in This Podcast

For more information about Win Without Pitching, including the many resources they have available, go to the firm’s website at www.winwithoutpitching.com.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJv3Ji76LhY

Episode Transcript

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Welcome to the podcast, Shannon. I am so excited to have you on here. Thank you, Gail. I am too. I've been looking forward to this, so thanks for having me on. it's my pleasure. Well, we met in a mastermind, and it has been a lot of fun. And I have found out what great expertise you have in an area that I think will be great for our listeners today, which is sales, especially for people in the services business. Yes.

I can't wait to talk about that. But first, I have to ask you a few questions that are a little bit personal, and I would love to hear about these. And we asked this question about what your biggest life lesson was. Why don't you share with us what you shared? So I have to remember honestly what I shared, but I'll tell you what I think I shared. Okay.

There's a lot of life lessons, but I know one that made a big impact on me was when I was fired from a job. And it definitely was humbling, but also lit a fire. And what I mean by that was it caused me to take a hard look at who I was and what I was doing and where I belonged. And I did not let myself give in to the story that I had failed.

I reframed it for myself because I do think that was the truth. And the truth was it wasn't the right fit. I shouldn't have been there. They probably shouldn't have hired me. And it was a beautiful moment in a lot of ways because it caused me to really just think hard about where do I add value? Where do I want to be? And that really started a journey for me that ended up at win without pitching eventually. But it started a journey for me where I went to work for small to medium sized independently owned businesses and left.

corporate America, which I wouldn't have traded that experience on the corporate side, but I certainly figured out what my unique ability was after that. Well, I think sometimes it's important to have those setbacks because if we had it all going so well, I don't think we would learn the lessons that we really are here to learn. 100%. I am unafraid of failure, of setbacks,

hard conversations, like it just changed so much for me in that moment. And so it was a good thing in the end. Well, that's an interesting comment that you bring up about having the hard conversations. I was just having a conversation with another client this week about hard conversations and I still struggle with it. tell me your secret to doing that. You know, it's a really good question and I don't know for sure if I've landed on why it's

okay for me or why it feels comfortable for me. But I think it has something to do with a combination of life experience, a combination of just trusting myself and knowing what's right and finding the right words to convey that to somebody that that honestly come with a lot of love and a lot of care. Like I really believe in empathy and vulnerability in life and in the professional setting. And I think if we're just really focused on

the greater good and this idea of an abundance mindset. When something feels hard, I think we should be able to talk through it. And I did have a boss at a previous job tell me one time that it's almost like climbing a mountain or having a baby. She said, like, it's scary and the moment is going to come and it might cause you, this is what she said, it was so like visual. It might cause you to just kind of feel like you have to throw up.

But the minute you start talking, everything is okay. The minute you start climbing, everything is okay. The minute labor starts and you're having that baby, everything is okay. So it funny analogies I know, but it really like struck me as yeah, it might feel hard in the moment, but the minute you get going, it'll work itself out. I think too what happens, I know for me, if I'm pushing myself and I haven't done something before or it seems uncomfortable to do, I probably should do it because I'm going to learn from that. And it's

hard to overcome that resistance to doing that, making that leap from wherever you are, which is a status quo to something that's going to be probably a hugely important learning lesson for you in life, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's okay to practice a little and think a little bit about what that hard conversation is going to be and how you might handle it. So you're just a little more prepared.

And then I think you don't want to overthink it. It's time to just take action. that's another really good topic too, which is following that gut instinct about what to do. And I think sometimes we take that away from, or we quit doing it because we feel as if we should follow a process or do things a certain way or somebody has taught us a certain way. But in the end, I think that gut instinct, don't you, is really critical.

Trust your gut. It is really critical and I agree with you that most of us don't give ourselves enough credit for trusting our gut instinct. And after years of coaching and working with lots and lots of clients, they are smart and they have good instincts and I see it in them. And I see it as they're working through a problem and talking it out. And in most cases, I'm just raising my hand saying, you actually know what to do here. You just need to trust your gut and…

and be unafraid to say what you need to say. So I think we all need to listen to ourselves a little more. that's well said. Well, and because you're teaching how to sell without really being salesy, I think it's so interesting that we as individuals tend to maybe have a poor feeling about people that are in sales, which is unfortunate because we all sell every day.

We sell our ideas, we sell what we want, if we're trying to talk our spouse into doing something that maybe they didn't think about or didn't know they wanted to do. So we want to sell them on our ideas so that we're getting them to do what we want them to do. So I don't think it's a bad word. So talk to me about sales. Why did you get so interested in that? Yeah, I kind of fell into what I guess is considered a more

formal sales role, but you're right that I'd been selling all my life in various forms. And I really view selling as a mechanism for helping and as a mechanism for change. And again, it comes down to how are you framing this for yourself? And is it coming from a place of good? Like, I really think we should be using our power for good in the sale and can we help these clients? And so for me, it happened at that moment when

corporate America ended and the design firm that I had hired to create the annual report for this company that I was working for said, hey, why don't you come and sell for us? And I just thought that is wild. I don't know what that means, but I love the culture there. I love what you do. I love being around that creative personality and mindset. So yes, and then I'll figure it out later. So it was a jump moment and a trust my gut moment. And they had a really

values-driven approach to selling, which was just about that. Like, can we help?...

Sometimes a designer latches onto a particular period or style and builds their career around it. It may appeal to their sense of aesthetics or taste. Or it may speak them in more profound ways. They look for clients who also respond to that style and adapt when possible to meet that client’s needs.

In this episode, Gail talks with Christopher Kennedy, principal, Christopher Kennedy in Palm Springs, California. Christopher has a B.A. in architecture and an MBA in finance. He has been labeled an architectural designer but considers himself an interior designer, not an architect. He designs interiors, not buildings. He is the author of California Modern and Making Mid-Century Modern.

Christopher related his journey of how he eventually found his way to becoming an interior designer. He said that from a young age he was interested in creating positive environments for people. Although he is perhaps best known for his revival of mid-century modern design, he stressed that above all he thinks about how his clients will be impacted by the spaces he designs.

As designers, he said, “we’re not like selling a chair or a pillow. We’re really creating the home where someone is going to live out their human drama.”

Gail asked Christopher about his own books and what books he’s been reading lately. He mentioned a few titles and added that he basically reads three types of books, those on healing, spirituality and business.

In addition to his interiors work, Christopher has also developed a furniture line and currently has a number of licensing agreements with various manufacturers. In the future, he said, he would like to try his hand at designing fabrics, lighting and perhaps some smaller accessories, such as mirrors.

Christopher is a strong believer in giving back. Some years ago he created the Christopher Kennedy Compound showhouse in Palm Springs and helped to establish a Modernism week celebrating local design. Showhouses are not for everyone, he acknowledged, but there are many other ways designers can contribute to their communities. “We all have ways that we can give,” he said.

To learn more about Christopher and his work, listen to the entire podcast.

If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s12e1-shownotes

Mentioned in This Podcast

To learn more about Christopher and to read his blog, go the firm’s website at www.christopherkennedy.com.

Christopher’s book, Making Mid-Century Modern, is available from online booksellers. His other book, California Modern, is currently out of print but available from used booksellers.

Gail asked what Christoper was currently reading, He said,

Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect by Will Guidara

You Are a Badass: How to Stop Doubting Your Greatness and Start Living an Awesome Life by Jen Sincero

Forever Strong: A New, Science-Based Strategy for Aging Well by Gabrielle Lyon

He also said he was reading various writings by Abraham Hicks, who writes about manifesting and related topics.

Gail mentioned the book, Areté: Activate Your Heroic Potential by Brian Johnson. She called it inspiring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac-6UZBkbQo&pp=ygUYcGVhcmwgY29sbGVjdGl2ZSBwb2RjYXN0

Episode Transcript

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So Christopher, welcome. So glad to have you on the podcast. Thank you, Gail. I've been a fan of yours for a long time, as you know, and I'm thrilled to be here. it's just a delight for us. I want to start off and talk a little bit. We're going to dive into your background and all of that, but I want to go to your About page on your website. love that About page. So please share that with us.

sure. You mean the one that talks about like I believe in humanity? Is that the copy? Yeah, that's the one. I happen to have it here. okay, what it says, I'll just read it for you guys. I believe in humanity. I believe in beauty. I believe in crafting spaces that enhance the lives of my clients. I believe that our physical environments have power. Creating rooms that inspire people, that elevate them, that help them live in the moment, to have meaningful conversations with their loved ones, to get a good night's sleep. That is what inspires me.

impacting people's lives for the better. I think that's such a beautiful statement. And I'd love to know how much wine did you drink when you were writing that? know me. Too much wine or too much coffee, I'm not sure. For me, it's 2. It's 9 AM now, so it's just the coffee kicking in. But yeah, I don't know. I think I wrote that for my first book. I don't remember. But I was of the Hemingway School. know, write drunk, edit sober. I wouldn't say that.

Maybe a glass. But I still think it holds up. that's so good. Well, I think it's a beautiful statement. And it was very inspiring to me. And I like the best part about getting a good night's sleep. I think that was humorous, too. well, we do. I mean, we don't, you know, we're not like selling a chair or a pillow. You know, we're really creating the home where someone's going to live out their human drama. You know, they're going to.

you know, fight with their dog and love their kids, probably love their dog and fight with their kids. You know, we're really setting the stage for where they live their human lives and their human existence. And that's a really big deal. It really is. And it's a beautiful thing to be able to inspire people and create that space for that. Yeah. So let's talk about your mother because she was a big influence on you and how she influenced your direction toward interior design. thank you. My mom, Marilyn had

polio she was born just before the vaccine in 1944 and she was ever supposed to be able to walk but her mother Sela was a nurse and did physical therapy at home on the farm in North Dakota before it was a true discipline and my mom was able to walk she could never run and she wasn't really supposed to be able to have kids but she had me so we were very close obviously and I'm an only child and I think she could tell that I was creative really early on and she fostered that and you know.

gave me all the art supplies that I wanted and all the books that I could devour. So she definitely inspired me and fostered my creativity. my gosh. And of course you've had an interesting journey along the way and you lost your parents at a very early age in their twenties. And how much did that impact the direction of your life and besides leading you to Palm Springs? Yeah, I was in my twenties, my parents passed away and my dad had me when he was 56.

He was about twice my mom's age. He was in his 50s, she was in her 20s. It was San Francisco in the 70s. You can probably get the whole picture. So he was 82 when he passed away when I was 27 and my mom died a couple of years later. And yeah, you kind of do realize you're an orphan, you know, and I think like you're looking for the adults in the room, right? And I think, you know, I'm 48 now, I'm still sometimes looking for the adults in the room. It's you and you got to boss up and put your big boy or big girl pants on.

and do all the things. I mean, just caring for her as she was dying definitely was a big responsibility and a big privilege. Yeah, I think the thing about it, you've lost your parents, right? It's like you like, like when something good happens, like what do want to do? Like you want to call your mom or something bad happens. You want to call your mom. And it took a good year to like break that habit of picking up the phone. So now we just try to talk to her when I think about it. That's so cool. I love that. Well, and our mothers do have a big influence on us. I know that

That was in my background and she, my mother was very artistic and had all those skills. And that was part of what led me into design. I think we all have some, something that leads us that direction. So even behind me is a piece of art that she did. She's right there looking over your shoulder. I she is. I think of her every day. Well, let's talk a little bit about your background. Now you have a BA in architecture and an MBA.

And you say you're an interior designer and not an architect, which I find interesting. And you are so much more than that, which we're going to talk about today. But how important was education to your success and which part was the most impactful, the MBA or the architecture? all the questions, Gail. I mean, I don't call myself an architect because I'm not a licensed architect. have a bit of a hate-hate relationship with architects that we can talk about later, but or over a glass of wine sometimes. OK.

I mean, I wanted to be an architect since I was like seven. It's really all I ever wanted to do. I was drawing floor plans and furniture layouts as a kid. My dad gave me my first book on Franklin Wright, I think when I was nine or 10. And as I was looking at colleges, really, I was only looking at schools with an architecture school. So I always wanted to do that. And I chose Drury, which is a five year bachelor of architecture program. about halfway through school, like in my third year, I kind of realized I didn't really want to follow the typical architecture path.

Not sure why. I want us to be a brand, which is weird. And then I just sort of didn't want to like draw bathrooms for five years and then sit for this really hard exam. could get sued. I know it just didn't sound what I wanted to do. So I decided to get my MBA. Seemed like a good idea. I was really into Martha Stewart at the time. Reading all about her in the late 90s and early 2000s. And I went to work for Disney. Actually, what I wanted to do was be a Disney Imagineer. I spent summers at the Walt Disney World College program in Florida.

wanted to be an Imagineer,...

Interior designers deal with hundreds, if not thousands, of details every day. It only takes one slip-up to jeopardize a project and potentially lose a client. Being well organized can help prevent mistakes from happening or deadlines falling through the cracks. You need someone on your team with top-notch project management skills.

In this episode, Gail talks with Kathleen DiPaolo, founder and CEO of Kathleen DiPaolo Designs, based in Newport Beach, California. Kathleen also operates a website and a blog called Return on Interiors dedicated to helping designers take control of their businesses. For the past several years she has been living abroad and attributes her ability to keep operating her design business remotely to being well organized.

Kathleen recounted that she has been obsessed with being well-organized since she was very young. “It gives me a sense of calm and frees up space in my mind to do what I need to do,” she said.

Over time, Kathleen also has found that it is a competitive advantage for her business. As a client, she said, “you want to have the organized designer working for you.” In her experience, clients have greater respect and confidence in you as a designer. They also will pay more because they trust you will save them time and money.

For an interior design firm, a key component of being organized is having top-notch project management. Kathleen defined project management as organized processes. Usually these are processes that are frequently repeated. Standardizing them makes the business more efficient and effective by helping to prevent mistakes, avoiding duplicating routine work, and improving communication among members of the team and with clients.

“We’re creatives, but you have to keep the machine going, even when you don’t want to,” she said. She suggested designers who can’t afford to hire or outsource someone to do project management start with a simple project, such as setting up a digital file structure for documents, to begin to get better organized. As a next step, she recommended “taking something that’s repeatedly a roadblock or time suck, and building a better process around it.” Begin to develop a repository of these processes.

In her conversation with Gail, Kathleen also talked about her experiences living abroad and some of the challenges and life lessons she’s picked up along the way. Listen to the entire podcast to get all the details.

If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s11e10-shownotes

Mentioned in This Podcast

For more information about Kathleen and her design firm, go to the website www.kathleendipaolodesigns.com.

To learn more about Kathleen’s Return on Interiors time savings and organizational tactics system, and to read her blog, go to www.returnoninteriors.com.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SotGamHTIys

Episode Transcript

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Welcome to Creative Genius. Kathleen, it's so great to see you. So where are you living these days? Gail, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Of course. am here in London right now. So I've been here for about two years now, believe it or not. my gosh. You have been on quite the journey. As long as I've known you, you started, I believe, in India? Yes. When I first knew you. And then from there, you went to?

Budapest I was there for four and a half years and then moved here. So I was in India for two years too. So two and four and a half and now I've been here too. Wow. Are you ever coming back to the U S I really thought maybe we would be doing that at the end of this second year, but we just found out.

last week or the week before that we'll be staying for another year and they said it's a little open-ended. So you never know. my gosh. Well, that is so different. So what is it like being an expat and being gone for all this time? Well, I have to say the biggest thing that was for me kind of more of a shock is that expat life wasn't just something I'd always wanted to do and thought I was going to do.

Thought I was going away for a year to India. And now here I am, like living all over, doing everything. But I have to say, it's been the best thing that's ever happened to me and to our family. And just has opened my mind to so many things that I never even knew were out there. for me, it's just every day is an experience to learn and to understand a culture.

and be on a journey that you wouldn't necessarily thought you'd be on. Well, it's definitely sounding pretty interesting. So we'll see if you come back after the next year. I know. Who knows? At least we still have our house. That's the one good thing. Well, yeah. So you were California based before all of this, right? Yeah. Well, we didn't even rent our place out at first thinking we were coming back. So I thought, with three kids and we'll have

Christmas is there and spend every holiday and it never happened. my gosh, I just can't even imagine how different that must be Well, I of course there are so many questions I have I'm going to try to hold myself back today, but What's the biggest life lesson you've learned as a result of being on the road? Hmm. Well, I think there are two different things here because my biggest life lesson was not actually

probably before, it was before I was on the road. And then there's also the biggest challenge really that I've had since being on the road. hmm, what do think I should do? Maybe my life lesson? Why don't you do both? Okay. Well, I think the biggest life lesson happened, I think when that market crashed in like 2007 and eight. And at that point I was,

I had just done a few design clients, I mean maybe three at the most, and I was flipping houses. So I flipped hundreds of houses and I loved all of the remodeling and the guts of the houses and learning about how everything works. And I just got way too confident and lent money to one of my family members who was building a spec house. Don't you remember how everyone was getting into it?

It's crazy that even look back, I think, what an idiot. But, you know, that that happened. And then I invested in a project that, of course, I thought was going to be a sure thing. And I lost money, hundreds of thousands of dollars of money. And at that point, I know just it was literally devastating. And I still think about it like with such craziness. But

The fact is it was such a good lesson to me in the end. You know how bad things like really show what you can and cannot do because I kept thinking, I had just completed this remodel in the house and I had just made this a perfect home for, you know, our family of five. And I just knew that I woke up one day and was like, I have to let it go. You know, when you just are so emotionally attached to something,

there was no reason for me to be attached to a home. It was literally a number on a street when I thought about it. And yes, I put all this energy in it and yes, I've lost a lot of money, but once you let it go, you just open yourself up to what's coming ahead and what's new. And I think being able to find a new property, the one I still have actually in California,

And being able to total remodel that and make it for, you know, it was more modest, which was much better for everyone, right? You know, things you just don't have the, you don't have that knowledge of having something, you know, traumatic like that happen. So I think that has just helped me be a lot more just calm and modest and have that attitude that, you know what, if you don't let,

go to the bed, then you can't open up for the new. Okay. Well, it sounds like you learned a lot from that. And of course, living overseas as well has taught you a few things. So what do you think is the biggest lesson? Okay. So the biggest thing I've learned from overseas wasn't, you know, how to run my life or anything like that, or how to be a better person. was literally how can I have a design business that is

across the world and not next to a project and not let people down. I was so worried about leaving my business that I just wanted to make sure that I had systems and processes in place. And that for me was like the biggest and most scary thing about leaving. And I think just

It wasn't pretty, let me tell you. I mean, I had to hire people and I, you know, wasn't going to be profitable in some of my projects. But for me, that was totally okay because in the long run, I really wanted my clients to be happy and have a good reputation and to make sure that at some point I can get them back as clients again, you know? And so having all of that and then learning Zoom before COVID.

All of that kind of stuff. Great. I'm so glad I learned it before I had to learn it. I don't know. Those are the things that… that was one of the hardest things to learn honestly. Gosh, I can only imagine. Well, sometimes things happen the way they're supposed to so that you learn life lessons that you can apply later. So it's not always a bad thing. No. Well, so with you. Absolutely.

You are one of the most organized people I've ever met. So how in the world did you manage to coordinate all these international moves and do it so seamlessly? OK, that's a good question because I literally went, I found out there might be a possibility we may be moving to India. Nothing 100%. They said, why don't you just fly out there and take a look at it? You know what? Just go ahead and get a real estate agent with you to meet you and show you some places.

Well, that was two days. found a place to live. And before we were even going back on the plane, I found out we're literally doing this. And I don't know how I didn't get the memo beforehand. I You just were in denial. I was in total denial. And so at that point,...

In his 2020 account of his 15 years as CEO of the Disney empire, The Ride of a Lifetime, Roger Iger proclaimed the maxim, "Innovate or Die". It quickly became a mantra for business executives and would-be executives hoping to emulate Disney’s phenomenal success. Whether or not you share the same sense of passion and urgency for innovation as Iger does, the fact is that some degree of innovation is needed for any business to maintain competitiveness and move forward. Knowing how to apply innovation to your business can be a strategic advantage.

In this episode, Gail talks with consultant Jeff Standridge, based in Conway, Arkansas. Jeff also teaches in the College of Business at The University of Arkansas. He is the author of The Innovator's Field Guide: Accelerators for Entrepreneurs, Innovators and Change Agents and The Top Performers Field Guide: Catalysts for Leaders, Innovators and All Who Aspire to Be.

Innovation, as Jeff defines it, is “planned change directed at better ways than we are currently doing things today.” He identified three types of innovation that occur in businesses: incremental, breakthrough, and disruptive. Innovation, he said, is happening exponentially in today’s businesses. Much of it is driven by new technologies, such as the digital revolution and AI.

Gail asked Jeff how owners can apply innovation to their businesses. He said designers already have expertise in one of the main tools for innovation, design thinking. Beyond that, he said, first learn what innovation is and how it can impact a business, utilize an innovation process, conduct quantitative and qualitative research to determine what things in your business could be done better than how they’re being done today. Having identified those things and confirmed that they are things that are negatively impacting the business, develop solutions and implement them.

Gail also asked Jeff what key messages from his book he would like to share with listeners. He offered the following:

Sustained success comes from the ability to balance results and relationships.

Failure is only failure if you quit.

The only thing required for innovation to occur is a constraint.

To hear why Jeff believes innovation and leadership are inseparable and other insights, listen to the entire podcast.

If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s11e9-shownotes

Mentioned in This Podcast

To learn more about Jeff and to contact him, go to the firm’s website at jeffstandridge.com.

You will also find information about his books and a page with a list of his podcasts and videos. You can also message Jeff through his page on LinkedIn.

Jeff recommended the book The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable by Patrick Lencioni. Both Jeff and Gail recommended another book by the same author, The Advantage: Why Organizational Health Trumps Everything Else in Business. Both are available from online booksellers.

Gail mentioned the book The Obstacle Is the Way: the Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph by Ryan Holiday.

In speaking about their use of AI, Gail and Jeff mentioned a couple of AI tools they are currently using. Gail mentioned one called Granola, a self-described AI notepad for meetings. Jeff recommended a site called Auxigen, a library of AI-driven tools that bills itself as the “the world's first Entrepreneurial Support Platform.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SCaDSkYCPs

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Well, welcome to the Creative Genius podcast. this we have today, our guest, Jeff Standridge, and he is from Arkansas. And we were just sharing with each other before we started the recording today that I also lived in Arkansas for about 10 years of my life. So I'm glad to meet with another Arkansan. There you go. That's right. How are you doing, Gail? It's good to be here today. It's my pleasure to have you. So why don't you share a little bit about your background with us?

Sure. Well, I grew up in a very rural part of Arkansas, down in Pike County. It's a very small County. The town was about 1200 people had 28 people in my graduating class in the public school, the local public school. it was not a one room school, but it was a one campus school. So, first grade through 12th grade, we're all on the same campus. Came to the university of central Arkansas in Conway, Arkansas in the mid eighties and, and, after cramming a four year degree and almost six years.

I actually got into the healthcare world, spent about 10 years as a paramedic respiratory therapist on the helicopter team at Children's Hospital as a professor at the University of Arkansas for medical sciences. And I knew academically, I didn't want to get another graduate clinical graduate degree. So I got a degree in organizational behavior and that led me into the business world. I spent about 20 years with a company called Axiom Corporation, which was a publicly traded.

Data analytics company, worked all over the world, ran global operations, acquired multiple companies on five continents. And then about eight years ago, I left to focus on growing entrepreneurs in the state of Arkansas. And that's where I spend some of my time today and created a venture fund to also invest in some of those entrepreneurs and then do some billable consulting with,

larger companies around the world as well. So that's kind of my story. I'm a granddad of two and a daughter of a granddad of two and a dad of two daughters. And so all I can do is raise girls. So I'm a girl dad, girl granddad. Well, that's good because we have about 80 % of the people on this podcast that are listening are females. So you're speaking to the right people. Awesome. Awesome. Well,

I want to start with one of the questions that I thought would be very interesting, which is what is the biggest challenge that you've overcome and how did that drive you to what you're doing now?

I may have two for you, right? So I mentioned in my, in my intro that I crammed a four year degree into six years. I had the academic underpinnings from, from my days at, a very small rural school, but it took me three or four years to actually become a good student, to develop the academic skills. So I had the foundation, but I didn't have the skills. So I,

First course I ever took was an intro to finance and economics thinking I was going to be a finance major because I had an interest in finance and I made the only D I've ever made in my life. Went to college on a music scholarship because I was an all-state instrument player, all-state musician in one instrument, the baritone or the euphonium, a brass instrument. And when I decided I couldn't major in finance, I thought I would major in music.

And I did that until I learned and everyone at the university learned that I wasn't particularly talented. I just worked hard. And then after I graduated high school, rather after I graduated college, I purchased the business that I had worked at all through junior high and high school, which was a gas station muffler shop where I learned to change the oil service, the vehicles, fixed flats.

weld mufflers mufflers on. I bought that business and hired someone to run it for me while I was working on the helicopter team at Arkansas Children's Hospital. And I lost that business after a couple of years and had to dig out from under the the stigma of that but also the debt that was associated with it because I couldn't once I liquidated everything I didn't have enough money to pay off.

all of the debt that had been incurred in that business. So I spent the next eight or 10 years doing that. So those three, two or three different stories, led me to this concept that being gritty, being resilient, that failure's only failure if you quit. Probably the greatest realization I've come out with in that regard, went on to get a master's and a doctorate and.

literally work around the world on five continents doing business. And I now teach entrepreneurial finance in that same university where the only course I ever took there in business, I received a D in. I love that because I think sometimes you have to have those failures. I have plenty of them. I can tell you multiple ones. But I think that really gives you that grit and

Ironically, the name of our company is Pearl Collective and pearls are made from sand or grit. And so it really is appropriate to, or the name of our company, to what you have to go through as an entrepreneur, in my view. Don't you think it's interesting that two precious stones, so to speak, in the terms of diamonds and pearls are created with grit and pressure and resistance and heat and what have you? It teaches us a lot about

what it really takes to be successful in all aspects of life. Agreed. So let's talk a little bit about innovation because that is one of your areas of focus. I noticed that on your website. So what exactly is innovation as it applies to business? Well, innovation, and I have a definition that I like to use and there are parts of that definition I think that are important. First of all, it is planned change. It's planned or orchestrated change.

that's directed at better ways, better can be more effective, more efficient, more profitable, easier, but better ways at doing things than we're currently doing them today or have done them in the past. So plan change that drives better ways of doing things. There are three different types of innovations that we see kind of on a day-to-day basis. One of those is we're probably all most familiar with, which is incremental innovation.

which sometimes gets described as process improvement or continuous improvement. It's making those incremental changes that if we make incremental improvements over a period of time could result in massive ou

Using social media to market products and services is not a new practice. But in recent years it has increased exponentially with the massive popularity of channels like TikTok and Instagram. That proliferation presents new opportunities for interior designers, but it also presents some challenges. With so much competition for consumers’ attention, you need a consistent, coherent strategy if you want to reap the benefits.

In this episode, Gail talks with Darla Powell, director and self-proclaimed Head Wingnut, with Wingnut Social, based in Leonardtown, Maryland, which specializes in providing social media management and marketing services to the interior design and home decor industries. Darla ran her own interior design firm, Darla Powell Interior Design, for many years. During that time, she became interested in the commercial use of social media and how she could apply it to growing her business. Following a break up with her partner, she decided to close the design business and devote herself to helping interior designers use social media to market themselves and their services.

Social media marketing involves leveraging social media platforms to share content, build networks, and engage users with the goal of growing a business. Darla pointed out that while we hear a lot about social media celebrities and influencers and how many followers they have, the best metric of success for social media marketing for businesses is growing reach and awareness. You want to increase the number of potential ideal clients who are viewing your content.

Darla explained that to see meaningful results from social media marketing requires a long-term, organic strategy. You have to have great content, keep refreshing your content, be responsive to inquiries, and be consistent in doing so week in and week out. You are working on building relationships with potential ideal clients. “It takes three to six months of doing everything 100 percent before you really start building up momentum,” she said.

Darla said there was no set formula or pattern for the way one should do social media marketing. It is different for each designer. She said that while, in her experience, Instagram is currently the best platform for interior designers to market on, for some designers LinkedIn, Facebook and Pinterest can also produce results. TikTok is growing for business use, she said, but is not currently a major focus for her firm.

Darla also talked about the services her firm offers, what type of firm is a good fit to work with her firm, what kind of budget one needs, what qualities to look for when outsourcing social media marketing, and why you need to be able to scale your business quickly in preparation for the influx of new clients. For all that and more, listen to the entire podcast.

If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s11e8-shownotes

Mentioned in This Podcast

To learn more about Wingnut Social and the services it provides, go to the firm’s website at wingnutsocial.com. You will also find there a link to Darla’s podcast, Designed by Wingnut Social.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO_MEZmpPoY&pp=ygUYcGVhcmwgY29sbGVjdGl2ZSBwb2RjYXN0

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Welcome to the Creative Genius podcast, Darla. Hi, Gail. Thank you for having me. It's my pleasure. it's pleasure having you. So tell us about Wing That Social. How did that come to be? wow. How much time do you have? My goodness. Okay, well, let's settle in. I was born. So long, very long story. I'll make it very short for you. I was a police sergeant for the Miami-Dade Police Department in Miami up until 2017.

And I retired early because I wanted to follow my love for interior design, which I had been doing off and on in an amateur semi professional kind of way over the years. My marketing efforts for the interior design firm, did I say Darla Palinteria's menopause brain was was pretty aggressive. And I was turned out that I was kind of a savant unbeknownst to me at marketing, digital marketing, particular, social media marketing.

And I had other interior designers saying, how am I seeing you everywhere? You're in designers today and our ad pro. And I told them, you know, it's just through my social media efforts, my social media marketing. they said, okay, well here, I'm going to pay you to do that for me. I said, are you kidding me? I don't have time. I barely have time to do my own. So when I did get really busy with the design firm, I decided, you know, I need to outsource my social media marketing. And I went to ABC marketing firm, one size fits all.

kind of marketing firm and said, Hey, can you do my social and some Google ads for me? And I was super excited about it. And it ended up being awful, really bad. Like the, the creative, the content, their whole strategy was they had zero idea of an interior design business, how it is that we work, what our sales funnels and flow look like. And it was such a miserable experience. And I still had designers coming to me saying, you know, what are you doing? What's your secret that my wife and I at the time,

looked at each other and said, you know what, there's a there's room in the market for this for someone who knows what to do in this niche. And very long story short, wingnut social was born, it was a DBA under the design firm for a while there. And then my wife at the time, which you may have picked up on was at the time. No longer pass. We were about we were running both businesses and really burning both candles at the end, right? We we separated, got divorced, and I had to pick

one, I had a really good business coach. said, if you had to put a gun to your head and pick one, which is kind of violent, I guess, immediately I was like wing nut because it just offered me so much more flexibility, freedom at the time, a lot less headache and mobility. could work from anywhere and knowing my current situation and here we are. So not doing design at the moment, although sometimes I still say, I want to do that again? I figure it's like having a baby. You you forget the pain and just the beauty of the baby.

But here we are. Winged and social is here. huh. And so how did you become this maven that you are a social media? You just said that you just naturally had a talent, obviously, but yeah, it's kind of like what comes, what came first? The chicken and the egg, right? So in an authentic way, I just kind of fell into it, right? From being a cop. clearly I'm not really doing a lot of self promotion for being a Sergeant, right? Of the police. But I knew starting a business that I would need to grow my

name, reach and awareness, starting out with the Facebook groups and community groups. And I started teaching myself by, you YouTube studying, going to webinars, going to seminars, going to events and finding out that I had a real knack. And I don't know you can see behind me, I'm kind of a geek. I have all my little my adult grown adult woman, child, toys, action figures and stuff back there. So I'm kind of a nerd. And I really enjoyed, you know, the the

technical side of it, you know, the social media marketing and it just just grew. I'm just self taught really. But my team at Wingnut, however, I don't do the actual marketing. They all have their degrees in marketing. So don't worry about that. you know how to run the business. Exactly. I'm like what I did with the design firm, right? I'm like the big picture person, the rainmaker overseeing all the big picture stuff. But the day to day, the nitty gritty, I'm delegating that.

I like to say I'm the queen of delegation and it works out well. Yeah. Yeah. So what this determines success in social media today, followers engagement. my gosh. Yes. Yes. Yes. And again, I guess this could be a, this could be a 10 hour show. so at the end of the day, the best metric of success for us, for our clients is growing reach and awareness. How many eyes from potential ideal clients are we getting on our

interior design clients accounts, how many leads from their social media are we getting to their sales funnels and that can be their website, their intake forms, their blogs, whatever that looks like for them. How many DMs with direct messages we're getting from potential clients asking about their services and what it's like to work with them. Engagement is really important. Followers are kind of important too, as long as they're quality, right? Not quantity.

because those metrics help to grow the other two things that I mentioned. But there's, those are the main ones. And of course there's, there's all, you know, when I say impressions and then reach and then how many likes you have, you're kind of, you know, there's an algorithm there that you have to kind of play the game. But at the end of the day, it's, it's a, it's an investment, right? So you want to make sure that it's paying off in a way. And those are the three main things that I look for when I go over my client stats or how many website visits are we getting?

You know, the reach and their awareness follower account for me is the last that I look at for sure. Okay. Okay. How do you get to the point where you have lots and lots of followers and how do you do that quickly? I know that's a big million dollar question. Everybody wants to know that a lot of crying. Are there any hacks? Any ticks? No life yet. Well, okay. So Instagram, when I started Darla Powell interiors,

which is no more. Right. So, I mean, there's a website for it, but it'll link you to wing that social. and in 2017 was pretty easy to grow in an organic way. Right. So I went from like zero to 30 some odd thousand followers in a year and a half, something like that. now it's very difficult because you know,...

Along with marketing, public relations can be an effective means of expanding into new markets and attracting more of your ideal clients. Also like marketing, to produce the desired results, you need to devote a certain amount of time each week to PR and consistently implement your plan week in and week out. It may take some time, but persistence will pay off in the long run.

In this episode, Gail talks with Amy Flurry, a nationally recognized speaker on do-it-yourself public relations. She has a particular focus on DIY PR for interior designers. She is the author of Recipe for Press: Pitch Your Product Like the Pros and Recipe for Press: Designer Edition.

Amy noted that compared to just five to ten years ago, today there are so many more opportunities across so many channels for DIY PR. Whereas in the past the emphasis was getting published in print vehicles such as magazines and newspapers, now there are also online versions of those publications, e-newsletters, blogs, custom publishers for niche audiences, manufacturer vehicles, and a plethora of local and regional materials from just about every industry and organization imaginable.

While it can be overwhelming at first to identify which media or publications you want to target, the variety of opportunities makes it more likely you can be more focused on reaching your ideal client audience. That will produce better results than trying to place content with sources that reach a broader audience.

Amy offered several tips for how to use your PR work time well and how to get better results. The key, she said, was you need to work with consistency so that you create relationships so that you end up having a presence all the time across a number of outlets. She said that a minimum commitment of two hours a week “will move the needle.”

If you have your eye set on someday being featured in prominent national publications or other outlets, bear in mind that you need to start first at the local and regional level, said Amy. Editors of national media want to see that you have been vetted by editors in your area. They are not going to take a chance on an unknown entity. Also bear in mind that editors often are planning content six months to a year or more in advance. Don’t expect to see your project or interview appear any time soon, even after having been accepted.

Amy also shared her tips for the right to pitch a story or project, what editors are looking for, and how to maximize the benefit when you do succeed in getting published. For all that and more, listen to the entire podcast.

If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s11e7-shownotes

Mentioned in This Podcast

To learn more about Amy, view a list of her products and services, access her blog, and subscribe to her Media List, go to her website at amyflurry.com. You can purchase her books from the Products page on the website.

At the end of the podcast, Gail asked Amy about her line of hand-stitched quilts and pillows. You will find more information on the Aloka Home website at alokahome.com.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwqWLxU0Cy8&pp=ygUQcGVhcmwgY29sbGVjdGl2ZQ%3D%3D

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Welcome to the Creative Genius podcast, Amy. I'd love for you to share a little bit about your journey into the design industry. I know it wasn't traditional. You're not an interior designer by trade, but tell us about that.

Well, my entree is through journalism. And I was a journalist and a freelance writer for 20 years. And I wrote about so many interior designers and interior designers who had boutiques. And when I, that's kind of my perspective. So when I decided I'm going to transition into a new season of my professional career, I wrote a book called Recipe for Press. It was in response to just how many coffees I had had with people who wanted to know

how to get press on their own, how could they make what I did happen, especially if they didn't have the budget or were not ready yet for a publicist. So as someone on the receiving end of so many pitches, I wrote a book that was basically, is what every editor everywhere wants to tell you, but they're not gonna tell you. These small mistakes can really mean the difference between getting published and not.

because it shows the editor that you get it. You understand how to, the reciprocation that goes back and forth when you are doing the dance of pitching a project or pitching a product. And so I wrote that book, Recipe for Press. From there, I got out into the major design centers and markets across the country, speaking to this and sharing the book. And the…

the number one audience that filled the seats were interior designers. And I took note of that. The reason being is because they have more opportunities than any other audience that I've come across. And also because they're operating in beautiful imagery that everyone needs. so I wrote a second book, Recipe for Press Designer Edition in 2018. And for a decade now, now I've been advising interior design firms.

And that's even expanded to advising manufacturers and showrooms on how to position their business through communications. Wow. Well, it's a big job and for sure it has changed quite a bit over the years. And maybe you want to touch on that a little bit about how the industry has changed in terms of media, because we are now in this age of social media versus just the traditional media, which was magazines that were in print.

So do you want to chat about that a little bit and just share what you see? Yeah. worked for a number of those major publications, they meant big impact. They had big impact. you were in the pages that we were talking about before they all went online, it was very impactful to the businesses that were shared.

It meant more jobs, it meant more clients. Sometimes it was so much attention it could break websites. So they had to, these places had to start preparing people for that kind of attention and for that kind of visibility. Now what's happened is that there is so much opportunity across so many channels that none of them are really the heavyweights anymore. I mean, they are heavyweight in title.

but they don't impact, most of them don't have the impact that they did 10 years ago, 15 years ago. So the idea to me is that that's changed in video. I would say video has come onto the scene pretty quickly. My thought, even back in 2010 when I wrote my first book, is that

You need to work at this to not in fits, spurts and fits, you know, like with a consistency that you create relationships that you end up having a presence all the time across a number of different outlets. It's not just one big happening, one big event or three big events because because you worked out it for a month and then you got tired, you know, that you

Stay with it. So you almost create this cloud effect and you know, sometimes it drools, sometimes it rains, sometimes it pours, but that's because you're working at it. It's a part of your business. Right. And it is hard, especially for our industry, for you to find time because you're so busy designing that sometimes it's really hard to work on the marketing piece or the PR piece.

so that you're getting out there, so that you're getting those clients. And it's really hard to manage all pieces of this business. Yeah, I know. Especially someone who has a product-based business. And for the first year, we did a full-on gift guide push, because that happens in July when you have a product because the editors are working six months in advance. you would think I would have gotten it.

together before now to do that for my own business. But we finally got organized. We said, we're going to do it. And we committed to doing it. I think part of it is, and the interior designers I advise and that come to me sometimes just for a one-on-one consult, they're not ready for a publicist, but they know they can do something. What we do together is just simplify, simplify the approach.

understanding you don't need to know personally 100 editors. know, you need to begin to create your editor list who you are going to who these are people who are good fits for your work, whether they are regional, locally, regionally, nationally to the trade, who are these people, you know, and who makes sense to me, not who makes sense. In theory, really, you know, looking at the work that you're doing.

and matching it to places where you see like work and beginning to create your list, really customizing your list. And when we simplify and create roadmaps, it actually works for starters. People are capable of that, but just getting started sometimes on that seems overwhelming. This can be a two hour commitment a week and it will move the needle.

if we just stay consistent like that. I agree with you. Yeah. Consistency is everything. And if people just do it and they start and then all of sudden it's three months later and they have it, they're just now getting back around to it. You don't have any momentum if you're just doing it occasionally. Right. And I get it that we have so much exposure to so much, so many names, you know, and you

might be on social media and you're like, my gosh, there's an editor, there's another one. And you kind of try to grasp at this, these things, but really at the fundamentals of book one, and that was written almost 15 years ago. It, they still apply. It's like read the publications you want to be a part of, put two together side by side. You will see there is a formula to the way those go together. Similarly,

online start to look when you see work like yours and you have that feeling like gosh that could have been me that's a good sign but be realistic you know be realistic could it have been are are we does do y

You have many reasons to be proud of your business. But as we all know from having sold homes or cars, it’s not what we value that matters, it’s what the buyer values. If you plan to sell your business, either in the near or distant future, you need to start now to ensure that it has a high value for those who might be interested in buying it. That can vary from buyer to buyer.

In this episode, Gail welcomes back to the podcast financial consultant Manny Clark. Manny has many years of experience with mergers and acquisitions, joint ventures, and other forms of business buying and selling. Residing in Charlotte, North Carolina, Manny is a member of the Texas-based business law firm Winstead, PC.

In his earlier appearance on the podcast, Manny discussed many of the pitfalls that can occur when selling a business and how best to avoid them. In his conversation with Gail this time, he focused more on examining the question, Why would a buyer want to purchase your business?

Manny explained that, in general, there a two types of buyers for a business. There are those he referred to as strategic buyers and those he referred to as financial investors.

Strategic buyers are those who want your business because they want to eliminate it as competition or because they are employees who want to perpetuate the business after you’ve exited. These buyers are likely to either request an acquisition, which could be an outright purchase or a management buyout, a merger, or an aqua-hire (hiring away your team but not purchasing the entire business). Any of these could involve acquiring the business over a period of time as opposed to a one-time purchase.

Financial investors foresee that the business has the potential to grow and increase its revenue and profit into the future. They will offer to invest a certain amount of money or purchase a certain portion of stock now with an eye to increasing their share of ownership in the business over time. If the business continues to perform according to expectations, they may eventually purchase the business outright.

Manny said the two main things prospective buyers are looking for are sufficient net income and potential growth. Therefore, it’s critical on the part of the seller to begin as early as possible to build up the business in order to increase its value at the time of sale.

During their conversation, Gail and Manny touched on many other topics related to exiting and selling a business. Manny also described again the many steps involved in selling a business. To get all the details, listen to the entire podcast.

If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s11e6-shownotes

Mentioned in This Podcast

To learn more about Manny or to contact him, go to his webpage on the Winstead PC website at www.winstead.com/People/Manny-Clark.

To see the previous podcast with Manny, which includes in the show notes Manny’s information sheet for prospective sellers, listen to the full episode here: “9 Best Practices for Maximizing Sale Value"

Manny recommended the book, The Exit-Strategy Playbook: The Definitive Guide to Selling Your Business by Adam Coffey. It is available from online booksellers.

Manny and Gail talked about the metric EBITDA, short for earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization, often used in evaluating a business’s worth. You will find a good explanation of what it is, how it is computed and how it is used at www.investopedia.com/terms/e/ebitda.asp.

Also mentioned in their conversation was the term GAAP, which stands for Generally Accepted Accounting Principles.

One of the practices used in management buyouts is an employee stock ownership plan (ESOP).

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Welcome back, Manny. Thanks for coming back for session two of our Creative Genius podcast. We're talking about exiting your business and we had so much good content in the first round that we realized we needed to go back and shoot it again. So here we are. Yeah, I'm glad to be back and really excited to talk to you and the Creative Genius listeners. All right. Thank you. Well, I heard that the statistic is very low for the percentage of businesses that actually sell.

So let's talk about why that is the case and what can be done to ensure that you can actually exit your business and get through the process successfully. Absolutely. So, you know, it's likely the case that most businesses will never reach a sale as a form of exit simply because most businesses that are ever formed fail. I think the prevailing statistic that most folks in the entrepreneurial community

are aware of that 80 % of businesses fail sometime, I think within the first five years after formation. So it's the case that it's hard to reject it simply because no business was that such businesses weren't able to ultimately achieve any kind of ongoing income that made their owner satisfied with keeping them around. Otherwise, I generally think it's the case that a lot of businesses fail to exit simply because they never

really become attractive acquisition targets for potential buyers. You have to really think about why a buyer would want to purchase your business. Generally, there are two types of buyers. We may have covered some of this in our last session, but there are strategic buyers, which are other businesses that are operating also within your same space. They may be your competitors. They may be far larger than you, but still operating within your space and may see you as someone who

you know, ultimately is taking some share, you know, of the market away from them. And then additionally, there are financial buyers. These are your search funds. These are your private equity funds. In many cases, you could also consider VC, you know, as another potential buyer in this instance. And so for a seller to make yourself attractive to those folks, one, you want to have a sufficient amount of income associated with your business.

for them to say that you are an attractive acquisition prospect. And you also have to have potential for future growth associated with your business to make someone say, gee, I'm interested in potentially laying down cash now because the value associated with what I'm putting in as an investment now is expected to grow. And so for most sellers, because they're not able either to achieve sufficient income and a large enough share of the market,

That would make them unattractive for strategic buyers who will say, gee, I can just wait this person out. Their business will likely go under, but their customers will need somewhere in order to source whatever thing that they need for the market. And they'll be able to turn to me at that point. And for the financial folks, without sufficient income or sufficient growth, it's just the case that they look around and say, I will put in money today, that unfortunately I'm not going to be able to return.

with any additional value to my limited partners. So that's what makes it difficult for sellers to be able to achieve any kind of sale-like exit. So if you're a seller and you're thinking about, how do I ultimately achieve a future sale? It's one, you need to have sufficient revenue and sufficient net income associated with your business to make you attractive.

And then again, you've got to find and execute a growth plan. And so that's really integral to a decision ultimately about exiting in the future. It is how am I going to grow my business and my income to satisfy myself, my family, and my partners? And then additionally, if I'm looking at a potential exit, how does this grow enough that it makes a strategic say, I've got to get them out of the arena?

Or alternatively, I've got to get them into this company so that I can grow and increase the size of my own dream and my own business. Same with respect to a potential financial sponsor. What makes a financial sponsor look at your business and say, gee, that is so appetizing if I can get and make this person my partner, because really that is what a sponsor-backed deal is. It's a partnership.

By making this person my partner and leveraging their management experience and their operating experience, how can I turn that into returns for my investors and therefore returns for me as well? So those are the keys that you need to be thinking about and executing on to ultimately achieve an exit in the future. And there are a lot of ways to exit. And you mentioned, since it's an acronym, let's define it. You said VC. So let's talk about what a VC is.

Sure sure so BC is venture capital and their their investments often aren't viewed necessarily as exits really they are their capital partner in this instance. So a VC investor and they fit under the umbrella of private equity. are professional investors. Often they are looking for very high growth businesses to make investments in their investments are geared towards

not just an attractive growth prospect where you see growth in the business at 8 % or 10 % a year, they are really looking for home runs. And so they will often back businesses very, very early in their life cycle. So you have early stage VCs, seed stage VCs. Those are among professional services firms. They tend to be a little bit difficult to find. There are not a lot of VCs within the space.

particularly those operating outside of the technology assisted professional services realm. So technology consulting companies may be able to attract them. You're more likely within professional services, like for example, interior design firms, architecture firms to see private equity sponsors that may be interested in your business. They are like to VC in that they are laying down a monetary investment to be able to join you in

Practicing interior design is highly demanding. So is running a small business. Combine them and you have a perfect storm for generating stress and burnout. You can ease some of that pressure by getting help. Whether you’re a sole practitioner and like it that way or a firm with a small team, you don’t have to do everything yourself. You may not want or are not able to hire an employee or two, but you can get assistance by outsourcing to others who have expertise in areas you don’t have or don’t have time for.

In this episode, Gail talks with Danae Branson, founder of Elite Design Assistants, based in Alexandria, Minnesota. Since the early 2000s, her firm has helped hundreds of interior designers to grow and scale their businesses through a menu of virtual outsourced services. Danae has a background in interior design, but found her true calling was in helping other designers.

Gail asked Danae what kinds of services her firm provides. She said in the beginning they mostly focused on administrative and operational support. But over the years her clients asked for more services. Today, they also offer CAD drafting and 3D rendering, procurement and sourcing, bookkeeping, social media marketing, and project management. She said one reason for her firm’s success is that they are very good at matching clients with the appropriate people, both in terms of expertise and personality.

Danae said many of her clients stay with them for two to five years. Some just for short periods at a time, for example, to cover staff on vacation or during a position vacancy. It makes no difference to her firm. They work on an as-need basis with no minimums.

The main reason clients come to them is that they are feeling overwhelmed and stressed from trying to take on too much. “Every interior designer at some point has to outsource something,” she said. They just are unable to keep up.

Danae said outsourcing may not be for everyone. She admitted that when she started the business, ironically, she herself was reluctant to outsource. However, she came to realize, as do many of her clients, that there are so many opportunities when you start to outsource. Yes, there is always the risk that the arrangement may not work out well. But she said, “With risk comes reward.”

Gail and Danae also talked about how to find quality outsourced services, what to look for when selecting an outsourced service or freelancer, and how to prepare for outsourcing. For all that and more, listen to the entire podcast.

If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s11e5-shownotes

Mentioned in This Podcast

To learn more about Elite Design Assistants and the services they provide, go to the company website at www.elitedesignassistants.com. You will also find information towards the bottom of the home page about how to sign up for the weekly newsletter Danae mentions near the end of the podcast.

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to the Creative Genius podcast today. We are so excited that you're here. I'd love for you to start off and just tell us about yourself. How did you find your way into the interior design industry? Sure, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, Gail. I appreciate it. Yes, so I have been in the interior design industry since the early 2000s. I was mainly self-taught and I did that for a while while my husband was in construction.

And then I kind of got a quote day job in the financial industry. That is where I actually created a virtual assistant agency. So I was in the financial industry for several years until I decided to get back into interior design around 2015, 2016. And in networking with designers, they were like, wait a minute, you have a virtual assistant agency that's not an interior design. We think you need to start looking into

helping interior designers and outsourcing. And so that's kind of where I developed Elite Design Assistance. And that's where we've been ever since. Needless to say, I never did get back into interior design as a designer. I now just focus on helping interior designers grow and scale their businesses and their outsourcing. Well, that is a lot. it's a great background that you have because you do understand the industry. You've been in it. You've done it.

and then you're jumping in to assist people that are needing to scale, which is of course what we do as well. And it is definitely different to be thinking about how do you do this with somebody that you outsource to versus having somebody in-house. So we'll dive into that quite a bit in our conversation today, but I think to me, that's a great place to start for people who are fairly new to the business.

and they don't have maybe the payroll capacity to handle somebody full time. So there's definitely a lot of good to what you're doing. Well, let's really talk a little bit too about some of the things that you've experienced. For example, what is one of the biggest challenges that you've overcome? Sure, for me,

That is, it's kind of ironic because I do help people outsource. I mean, that's what I do for a living and I'm very good at it. But I look at my own business. I had an issue with that. And I think it was because I spent so much time making sure my clients were well taken care of and doing all of putting in all of the hours, all of the time and the energy into their businesses. It's kind of like when you become a first time parent and you spend all this time on your child and then you step back and think, wow.

It really benefits the child if I take care of myself. It's the same thing in your business. I think so many business owners focus on their clients and that excellent customer service and what they're doing that they don't really look at their own business and take care of it as well. And so it sounds like I said, extremely ironic, but I really had to learn how to outsource and let go of the tasks in my own business so that I could continue to grow and scale to better help and serve all of my interior design clients.

Okay. And so that, going back to what you just said before this too, and our earlier question, you started this business as a result of just networking with other designers. So that's really interesting that, you, you went this direction. Do you miss interior design? I don't, I mean, I love still being involved to a point, but I don't miss, I love working with designers. I guess that's where I should say I,

I really love working with designers and that are the type, those are the type of people that I actually hire for my business. Most all of them were interior designers at one point or went to school for interior design. And they really fell in love with the idea with helping and supporting interior designers and not having their own clients. And I guess that's where I kind of fell into. So I love this business because I can work with designers. I can work with the virtual design assistants, but I'm not actively working with my own clients.

in a design process. Well, I think you and I are alike there because I actually prefer the business part of the business. And this end of it is so much more fascinating to me. So to me, what I'm hearing is you're more of the tactical on the back end for the business. You're providing the tactical people to get things done, executing things for the person that's running the firm. We're more on the strategic end where we're teaching people how to

think about their business, how to scale their business from an intellectual viewpoint. And then you're helping them actually make that happen. So this is kind of a nice little blend of our two businesses. So let's talk a little bit about the services that you provide to the industry. were talking about hiring people who had run their own interior design business. So what are some of the things they provide?

Yeah, so there are a lot of services. I would say the most popular people come to us for is anything admin. So all of your backend office tasks, your procurement, your sourcing, 3D renders, CAD drafting, bookkeeping, social media marketing, project management, operations. It's really anything that can be done virtually. When we started, we maybe only offered three or four services, but as we grew and our clients

We're interested in getting more services because of how well we are at matching with the appropriate people that will really help them in their business. They wanted us to start adding more services. And so we've grown to quite a few. We even have somebody who helps with influencer support, which is really a lot more in the social media marketing, kind of leveraging those designers that have a lot of followers. great. Well, that's an interesting little part of the niche too. Yeah, that's a big job.

Social media is not easy to outsource. So let's go off on that tangent for a second. So how do you do that? Because the voice of the designer, the vision of the designer is something that I hear them complain about. We can't outsource this. Nobody understands our vision. They don't know how to talk for us. How do you deal with that? Right, so obviously it's finding the people that have the experience doing it. I mean, I had to do it for myself. I did all of my marketing, social media, excuse me,

by myself for years. Then when I went to outsource it, I had to find somebody who sounds exactly like me. It's a little bit of research. They take a look at all of your social media, your website, your copy, and they really kind of hone down into what your voice looks like. They obviously can write sample copy. Everything's approved by the designer anyway before it goes out.

but that's kind of how we work to get that tone. And since everybody on the team's used to working with interior desig

People have many reasons for why they do the jobs that they do. Certainly, some may have more options than others. Yet, time and again studies, personal accounts and memoirs attest to the fact that people who devote themselves to doing what they love—even when it involves great sacrifice—experience the greatest satisfaction from what they do and while they are doing it. And often, they eventually achieve high levels of success.

In this episode, Gail talks with multi-media artist Dawn Sweitzer, of Dawn Sweitzer Studio in High Point, North Carolina. Dawn started her arts career in the mid-90s with a product design firm called Notre Monde. She currently designs for a number of top brands, including Banana Republic, Art House Furniture, Crate and Barrel, Anthropologie, and others. Her work includes painting, textiles and other forms of decorative art.

Dawn said one of her key attributes in working for major brands is that she is good at understanding and maintaining the aesthetic of the company. She also works with interior designers and their clients, both residential and commercial.

Gail and Dawn talked a lot about the creative process and how one keeps going year after year. Dawn said she is discovering and experimenting with new techniques all the time. That helps to keep her creative process fresh. Having her studio space, which has separate areas for different types of arts, helps to inspire her. She is surrounded by creative projects and possibilities.

Dawn acknowledged that she did not always have such a high level of confidence in her work. She was concerned about how others might judge it. In time, though, she learned to let go of that doubt and to be content with what she can produce. “If it brings me joy, then that’s enough,” she said. That has given her the confidence to try new things. “When you feel solid in what you’re doing and you share that with a fearlessness, I think that’s contagious.”

Gail asked Dawn what advice she had for listeners who perhaps are experiencing some doubt about their work. She said,

Believe in yourself. Trust your instincts.

Put yourself out there. Work really hard on your vision.

Start somewhere. Do something.

As a final thought, Dawn added, “Stay true to your vision, because your time will come.”

For more of Dawn’s story, listen to the entire podcast.

If you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s11e4-shownotes

Mentioned in This Podcast

For more information about Dawn and her work, go to her website at www.dawnsweitzerstudio.com.

Gail mentioned the book The Obstacle Is the Way by Ryan Holiday. You can find out more about it at theobstacleistheway.com.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_ObjBp9Yio&pp=ygUQcGVhcmwgY29sbGVjdGl2ZQ%3D%3D

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Hello Dawn, welcome to Creative Genius podcast. We are so excited to have you on today. Hi Gail, thanks for having me. Well, it's a pleasure having you and I understand this is you are a virgin on podcast, which is awesome. I think it is great to have somebody who's brand new to it, but you're such a natural. I think it's going to be a lot of fun today. We had the pleasure of visiting your studio at High Point in North Carolina at the most recent market.

And we really appreciated your generous hospitality and seeing your space and your whole process. How did you find your path to becoming a multimedia creative? Cause I think that's kind of what you are. You know, I, as far back as I can remember, I was always a creative person or appreciated the creative process. And, after I had traveled a while and I came back to the States, I'd lived out of the country for about

five years I came back to the states and that's when I. You know was trying to figure out what what it was that I wanted to do and I started a company. Called no tremont which was an accessory company started out with trays mirrors accessories and then morphed into furniture and while I was doing.

you know, starting that company to supplement my income, I would paint murals and facilitate my income with, with, know, painting murals and stuff. So I, I started back in, you know, the early nineties, mid nineties when I, when I started, and that was with it, it all sort of started with no Tremont, my accessory company.

Well, and you were so kind to show us your process for thinking about how you develop your ideas. And we're going to get into that in a second. But I'm just really curious why High Point High Point is not a place that one would think would be an artist area destination. Well, that's a funny story. So, you know, I'd always come to High Point with my accessory company, No Tremont, you know, twice a year. They have the High Point furniture market.

And then I was, I met someone, another artist, and he became my partner and he was living here at the time. And so I decided that I would move here. And that's what brought me here was that relationship. I found this beautiful studio space, which was an old warehouse, an old mattress factory.

about 18 ,000 square feet. so I found this great space and I just, mean, it sort of blew the doors open for creativity and me to explore different, you know, categories and things. And I just, yeah, so I started, you know, when I came to High Point, that's when I really started to explore different avenues outside of my company, Notre Monde. What brands do you design for?

So I designed for several different brands. I designed for Banana Republic. I designed for R House Furniture. I do a lot of art for Creighton Barrel, Anthropologie. I've also designed in the past for companies like Mitchell Gold, which is no longer existing, but that was…

in the past, but also on a global level. I worked with Harrods in London and higher end brands there. yeah, so I've worked with quite a few different brands. Yeah. And it's so fun to see some of the projects. We had that chance to wander around and see some of the things you're working on. was really exciting. Did they find you or did you find them? Well, it was kind of both, you know, I've been in this industry for so long that

you know, when you're when you're working in an industry like this, it's really, you know, one of the important things is about creating relationships with people. And, you know, in this industry, you know, there can be a lot of movement with buyers and, you know, designers and creators and CEOs and things like that. And I, I've always, you know, and I'm very proud of the fact that I've always had wonderful relationships with people. And so, you know, we

we sort of knew each other in the industry. yeah, so they would seek me out for my aesthetic and integrity in the industry. And I also, one thing that I think that I'm good at is understanding the aesthetic of each company, is they're all different, right? And maintaining that aesthetic. think there's a mutual respect.

you know, working with buyers and collaborating with other creatives when you're working with larger brands. you work with interior designers directly on their projects? do. I do. love working with them. Yeah, me too. You know, I love collaborating. love, you know, and I also work with their clients as well, you know, and they're, know, through them, you know, it really is a collaboration when we're doing

you know, when I'm doing commissions and stuff, because I love the fact that not only the designer, but the client who's living with the artwork or the textile or the mural, you know, they, they help collaborate and create, you know, they're part of that creative process, which I think is wonderful. So it's not only that, you know, we, I help them understand it. So when, you know, they're living with the art or, you know, that

bespoke piece, you know, they have, they're part of that story. What type of work is most appealing to you?

Gosh, you know, see, the truth is, is that I'm discovering different techniques all the time. You know, I don't just work in one medium. You know, I, one thing that I find fascinating is, you know, being a painter and an artist and a creative, but also seeing how that translates throughout, you know, different categories. You know, whether it is, you know, rugs or tabletop or

you bedding, you know, or a wall mural or, you know, because really when you look at what you're surrounded by, it's designed, it's touched by whether it's a glass or, you know, a table, a chair, whatever. So, I like to work in different mediums and I like to discover how, you know, it usually starts with a painting or a moon board to get.

I get, you know, a vibe and an idea down. And I usually start with I start with a muse. He's always this woman who, you know, well, is my muse and inspires me. And I sort of live vicariously through her. Like, what would she wear? Where would she travel? What does her house look like? What does she eat?

You know, what is she, what music does she listen to? You know, so that's, that's where it starts when I, when I start creating and then I see how, how it translates throughout, know, whatever it is I'm designing. you might say she's your alter ego while you're working. Yeah, probably. I love that. Yeah.

I can be from South Africa, I can be from Indonesia, I could be all over the world. Because what really inspires me ultimately is the beautiful cultures on a global level. That really is something that I value. Do you ever get stuck in your process? Do you find that you might start on a project and all of a sudden you don't know where you want to go with it? All the time.

Okay, all the time. Yeah, and part of it, you know, I think that's part of the process of a creative. I think you have to get stuck in order to sort of appreciate what it is that you're trying to do,...