Deep Transformation

Ep. 25 (Part 2 of 2) | Thomas Hübl, renowned spiritual teacher, author, expert on collective trauma, and creator and facilitator of The Collective Trauma Integration Process, shares fascinating, life changing information about the dynamics of collective trauma—how it is embodied and perpetuated in the language we use, and how we are bound together in a sort of “mutual collusion” that predisposes us to repeat our past, and to repeat over and over the things we would much rather leave behind. With remarkable insight and wisdom garnered from years of study, exploration, and effectively working with large groups to integrate collective shadow, Thomas also explains how we can create space for a new future by metabolizing the suffering held in both our personal and collective unconscious and making awakening and spiritual clarity the indubitable priority of our lives. Recorded at the Science and Nonduality Conference, October 2019, with Dr. Roger Walsh, John Dupuy, and Douglas Prater.

“Healing the broken glass of reality.”

(For Apple Podcast users, click here to view the complete show notes on the episode page.)

• The work of purification is more than only shadow work (00:48)
• Shadow, encoded trauma, and the “it-ification” of processes: how language embodies and perpetuates shadow (02:40)
• We are in mutual collusion in perpetuating shadow in this collectively traumatized world (06:22)
• Language keeps the past in place and the destiny of humanity fixated (08:50)
• Our relational network is an extension of our immune system (10:43)
• The word is creation and the art of truth telling is a practice (11:10)
• Climate change is an externalization of the pollution in our interiors (15:44)
• The need for us (and our leaders) to say I’m sorry to each other publicly (16:52)
• Letting go of the need for comfort (20:01)
• We are all writing or composing our experience moment by moment (22:07)
• We find God in the deepest expression of our own purpose (23:42)
• Our energy needs to be consciously integrated to clear a space for a new future (27:37)
• It is essential to adjust our practice over time (31:11)
• Spiritual clarity = knowing what we see and also what we don’t see is God’s will (35:05)
• Opening to the bottomless mystery (37:45)
• Walking the path of karma yoga (39:36)

• Collective Trauma Summit 2021: Collective Healing in Action
• William Ury, leading expert on negotiation and mediation and best selling author of Getting to Yes* (with Roger Fisher and Bruce Patton), Getting Past No,* and Getting to Yes with Yourself*
• Carlos Castaneda, The Teachings of Don Juan* 
• Thomas Hübl & Julie Jordan Avritt, Healing Collective Trauma: A Process for Integrating Our Intergenerational and Cultural Wounds*
• Thomas Hübl's Academy of Inner Science
• Thomas Hübl’s website: https://thomashuebl.com
• Thomas Hübl’s YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/thomashuebl
• Thomas Hübl, Modern Mystic - Principles for Living Consciously: Thomas Hübl in Conversation with Stephan Breidenbach*

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

---

Thomas Hübl is a renowned teacher, author, and international facilitator whose lifelong work integrates the core insights of the great wisdom traditions and mysticism with the discoveries of science. Over the last two decades, Hübl has taught and facilitated programs with more than 100,000 people worldwide. His events have focused on processing the collective trauma of racism, oppression, colonialism, genocides, and the complexities of those regions and groups which experience multiple historic and current challenges. He is the author of the book Healing Collective Trauma: A Process for Integrating Our Intergenerational and Cultural Wounds, which outlines his methodology called the “Collective Trauma Integration Process” as a safe framework for guiding groups through collective trauma. His non-profit organization, the Pocket Project, works to support the healing of collective trauma throughout the world. Hübl’s educational organization, the Academy of Inner Science, offers a master’s and doctoral studies program in cooperation with universities in Europe and the US. In 2020, Hübl received an honorary doctorate from Ubiquity University in California for “his pioneering work in the field of trauma.” He has been teaching workshops and presenting trainings for Harvard Medical School since 2019.

---

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 24 (Part 1 of 2) | Thomas Hübl, renowned spiritual teacher, author, expert on collective trauma, and creator and facilitator of The Collective Trauma Integration Process, shares fascinating, life changing information about the dynamics of collective trauma—how it is embodied and perpetuated in the language we use, and how we are bound together in a sort of “mutual collusion” that predisposes us to repeat our past, and to repeat over and over the things we would much rather leave behind. With remarkable insight and wisdom garnered from years of study, exploration, and effectively working with large groups to integrate collective shadow, Thomas also explains how we can create space for a new future by metabolizing the suffering held in both our personal and collective unconscious and making awakening and spiritual clarity the indubitable priority of our lives. Recorded at the Science and Nonduality Conference, October 2019, with Dr. Roger Walsh, John Dupuy, and Douglas Prater.

“Healing the broken glass of reality.”

Note: This podcast was recorded live and includes, at times, some extraneous noises in the background. Please excuse them -- we felt the conversation was very valuable and well worth sharing with our audience. We hope you enjoy it as much as we do.

(For Apple Podcast users, click here to view the complete show notes on the episode page.)

• Introducing Thomas Hübl (01:03)
• By definition, awakenings are not nondual if people haven’t dealt with their shadow: nondual needs to be the talk and the walk (3:03)
• The body is a sophisticated energy pipe system; mystics are like plumbers or electricians who free up the pipes (05:50)
• On stabilizing, generalizing, integrating insights: state practices versus process awareness (07:10)
• Tibetan Buddhism’s three developmental maps: 1) turning towards contemplative practice, 2) the stabilization of realized states, 3) ongoing purification (08:56) 
• We need to commit to a spiritual path, to cleaning up, and make space to clear things or the same difficulties will repeat again and again (10:12)
• Trauma is the collapse of time/space (11:46)
• Making divine awakening your highest priority is what constitutes a serious practitioner (14:06) 
• All serious shadow and trauma work is relational (15:24) 
• How can we stay committed to the path? Community, an externalization of our intention (18:22)
• Two challenges: We are tempted to abandon our practice both when it gets very dark—and when life gets very good (20:35) 
• Consciousness is catching: the way to develop desired qualities is to hang out with people who embody the qualities we want (22:14)
• Our cultural relationship to hierarchy: we’ve thrown it out, but there are hierarchies of development, maturity, wisdom, insight, and compassion that should be honored
• What are the most valuable ways to engage with what is inside us and integrate what we discover? (25:18) 
• Paying attention to congruence and coherence in our mental, physical, and emotional expression (28:21)
• Collective trauma: all of us have been born into a traumatized world (29:10) 
• Healing the broken reality: every trauma healing needs to result in an ethical upgrade; we have to become better people (31:54) 
• Thomas’ collective trauma group work where the field in the room is able to mirror the unseen dimension stored in the cultural unconscious  (32:31)
• We are all sculptures in a transpersonal nervous system, called to metabolize the suffering held in both our personal and collective unconscious (38:14)

• Thomas Hübl & Julie Jordan Avritt, Healing Collective Trauma: A Process for Integrating Our Intergenerational and Cultural Wounds*
• Thomas Hübl's Academy of Inner Science
• Thomas Hübl’s website: https://thomashuebl.com
• Thomas Hübl’s YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/thomashuebl
• Thomas Hübl, Modern Mystic - Principles for Living Consciously: Thomas Hübl in Conversation with Stephan Breidenbach*
• Roger Walsh, Essential Spirituality: The 7 Central Practices to Awaken Heart and Mind*

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

---

Thomas Hübl is a renowned teacher, author, and international facilitator whose lifelong work integrates the core insights of the great wisdom traditions and mysticism with the discoveries of science. Over the last two decades, Hübl has taught and facilitated programs with more than 100,000 people worldwide. His events have focused on processing the collective trauma of racism, oppression, colonialism, genocides, and the complexities of those regions and groups which experience multiple historic and current challenges. He is the author of the book Healing Collective Trauma: A Process for Integrating Our Intergenerational and Cultural Wounds, which outlines his methodology called the “Collective Trauma Integration Process” as a safe framework for guiding groups through collective trauma. His non-profit organization, the Pocket Project, works to support the healing of collective trauma throughout the world. Hübl’s educational organization, the Academy of Inner Science, offers a master’s and doctoral studies program in cooperation with universities in Europe and the US. In 2020, Hübl received an honorary doctorate from Ubiquity University in California for “his pioneering work in the field of trauma.” He has been teaching workshops and presenting trainings for Harvard Medical School since 2019.

---

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 23 (Part 2 of 2) | Integral leaders Kateryna Yasko, Vytautas Bučiūnas, and Bence Gánti illuminate many of the most poignant and pressing questions of our time, brought to the fore by the ongoing war in Ukraine: Can postmodern people embrace a warrior consciousness when necessary? Are Russians, brainwashed by propaganda, who explicitly support the war worthy of compassion? Can people remain sane and humane while at the same time taking up arms? How can we handle the effects of the psychological trauma that will cascade over generations? And how do we prevent the mass delusion and psychosis that is so easily propagated via modern media technology?

What are the global consequences of the Russian war on Ukraine? The trillions of dollars now being diverted to defense and military weaponry in the West are trillions of dollars that will not be spent on social programs, global health, education, climate change, and food—many people in Africa will starve as a result of this war on the breadbasket, wheat-producing Ukraine. What is wrong with democracy if its leaders can’t step up to the plate, be authentic, strong, and stand up for what is right, while autocrats do whatever they please? A powerful, heart wrenching conversation asking the right questions, pointing towards the answers. Recorded April 15, 2022.

For more wrestling with the questions, and to share wisdom, ideas, support, and inspiration, there is IEC 2022 (Integral European Conference) this May online and in Budapest. And to donate directly to help the Ukrainian people via Kateryna and Vytautas using iAwake's Funnel to Help, Heal, and Support the Ukrainian People, see below.

The reality is: “If Russia stops fighting, there will be no war. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no Ukraine.”

(For Apple Podcast users, click here to view the complete show notes on the episode page.)

• The difference between Ukrainians and Russians is Ukrainians long to be and remain human and humane; but Russians have been through a long dehumanization process (01:00)
• How can we stick to the Geneva Conventions and not become what we’re fighting against? (01:59)
• Around 60% of Russians on the street honestly believe they are liberating Ukraine (04:59) 
• The power of today’s information and communication technology, coupled with our awful vulnerability to delusional thinking, is a recipe for inducing culture-wide psychosis (07:05)
• The analogy with Nazi Germany and Putin’s Russia is right on (10:30)
• Are Russians who are brainwashed and explicitly supporting warfare worthy of our compassion? (11:30)
• What are the global ramifications, the psychological and cultural implications, of this great tragedy that will affect global health, social welfare, even the survival of the human species? (16:20) 
• The systems we have been trusting to maintain global order were not good enough to save us from this challenge (20:34)
• How to come up with more Integral, inclusive solutions and systems of sensemaking? (21:22)
• The leadership factor in the West over the last 20+ years has been reactive, compliant, generally avoiding facing reality – until Zelensky (Vytautas’ keynote at IEC will be about this) (21:52)
• Working on solutions at the Integral European Conference (IEC) May 2022 online and in Budapest (25:05)
• How this invasion has opened hearts, created an explosion of trust, people are really “showing up” (Kateryna’s keynote at IEC will be about this) (26:57)
• Showing up – what will you do when it’s time to act? There is a way to contribute for everyone (28:09)
• iAwake’s Funnel to Help, Heal, and Support the Ukrainian People (30:15)
• IEC will be an opportunity to involve people from Latin America in the fight for democracy and freedom in Ukraine, and hear about their ongoing wars as well (32:35) 
• IEC will sponsor a global discussion on war and peace everywhere; there are more than 100 wars going on at any given time on the planet (35:06)
• Are only autocratic leaders allowed to be bold, decisive, real, and authentic? (37:31)
• Zelensky is the role model for other democratic leaders (38:50)

• Integral European Conference 2022: World Peace with the Integral Approach, online and in Budapest
• Vytautas Bučiūnas’ website: Upgrade of Leader’s Operating SystemTM
• The Annexation of Crimea
• The Budapest Memorandum

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

---

How can I help? iAwake's Funnel to Help, Heal, and Support the Ukrainian People

Deep Transformation sponsor, iAwake Technologies, sends all funds raised on behalf of the Ukrainian people directly to Kateryna Yasko and Vytautas Bučiūnas, who are giving on-the-ground support to Ukrainian refugees in the bordering countries, and sending life-saving medicines and emergency first aid kits into Ukraine via trusted drivers. Sending money directly to the people who are doing the work is much more effective at this stage than sending money to an established NGO or other aid organization, as there is a lot of paperwork and bureaucratic red tape that greatly delays the money from reaching the people who need it the most.

→ Donate here

Please know that 100% of your donation (after PayPal fees) will go directly to Kateryna and Vytautas to be used at their discretion to address the greatest needs as this terrible situation unfolds hour to hour, day to day. This couple has our absolute trust and confidence that they will use the funds we send them in the best and most compassionate and effective way possible.

#StandWithUkraine

---

Kateryna Yasko (Ukraine) is an organizational psychologist, a trainer for the development of emotional intelligence, trust, cooperation, effective communication, and peaceful conflict resolution, and co-founder of the consulting company U-Integral. Her academic background is in the area of international relations and law (MSc), business (MBA), and psychology (MSc). She bases her programs on the principles of Ken Wilber’s Integral approach and Marshall Rosenberg's Nonviolent Communication, and is certified in Spiral Dynamics Integral and in Susanne Cook-Greuter’s Maturity Assessment Profile. Kateryna is also head of the public association "International Institute for Integral Development" and a founder of the educational initiative EMPATIA.PRO, specializing in bringing  holistic approaches into educational leadership and learning cultures.

Vytautas Bučiūnas (Lithuania–Ukraine) is a co-founder and managing partner of U-Integral, an integral leadership development company. Vytautas also has vast experience as a top manager in the banking sector including working as the Head of Resident Office, Senior Banker, Associate Director at the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (Russia, Ukraine). Vytautas' professional profile includes building organizational units from scratch, carrying out large-scale transformations, and managing crises. Vytautas is a certified Integral Master Coach™ (Integral Coaching Canada), an ICF Professional Certified Coach (PCC)™, and the only business consultant in Ukraine certified in Leadership Maturity Framework – Maturity Assessment for Professionals (LMF-MAP) and Global Leadership Profile (GLP). Vytautas explores the development of human consciousness and complex social systemsfrom a holistic perspective. He considers the growth of a critical mass of mature leaders with systemic thinking and transformational capabilities to be the key to society's healthy development.

Bence Ganti, MA, is the main organizer, co-founder, and director of the Integral European Conferences (since 2014) and the co-founder of Integral Europe team (since 2012). He also created the Integral Academy in Budapest, a 3-year adult education program on integral psychology in 2006. Bence is an integrally oriented clinical psychologist, vipassana meditator, and international teacher of integral psychology. Being a dual citizen of the USA and Hungary, Bence bridges cultures delivering keynote addresses, making presentations, and leading experiential workshops worldwide, including his version of a cutting-edge we-space practice called Integral Flow Experience. In the US, he has taught integral psychology at Meridian University and San Francisco State University and at integral events at  Bay Area Integral, Integral Center in Boulder, and the Integral Theory Conferences. He also represented integral consciousness during the World Economic Forum week in Davos, Switzerland, in 2019.

---

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 22 (Part 1 of 2) | Integral leaders Kateryna Yasko, Vytautas Bučiūnas, and Bence Ganti illuminate many of the most poignant and pressing questions of our time, brought to the fore by the ongoing war in Ukraine: Can postmodern people embrace a warrior consciousness when necessary? Are Russians, brainwashed by propaganda, who explicitly support the war worthy of compassion? Can people remain sane and humane while at the same time taking up arms? How can we handle the effects of the psychological trauma that will cascade over generations? And how do we prevent the mass delusion and psychosis that is so easily propagated via modern media technology?

What are the global consequences of the Russian war on Ukraine? The trillions of dollars now being diverted to defense and military weaponry in the West are trillions of dollars that will not be spent on social programs, global health, education, climate change, and food—many people in Africa will starve as a result of this war on the breadbasket, wheat-producing Ukraine. What is wrong with democracy if its leaders can’t step up to the plate, be authentic, strong, and stand up for what is right, while autocrats do whatever they please? A powerful, heart wrenching conversation asking the right questions, pointing towards the answers. Recorded April 15, 2022. 

For more wrestling with the questions, and to share wisdom, ideas, support, and inspiration, there is IEC 2022 (Integral European Conference) this May online and in Budapest. And to donate directly to help the Ukrainian people via Kateryna and Vytautas using iAwake's Funnel to Help, Heal, and Support the Ukrainian People, see below.

The reality is: “If Russia stops fighting, there will be no war. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no more Ukraine.”

(For Apple Podcast users, click here to view the complete show notes on the episode page.)

• Ukraine update: the level of trauma has grown very high in the last month, both inside and outside Ukraine, with the discoveries in Bucha and elsewhere (03:18)
• Everyone feels guilty: the people who have fled, the people in the cities, the people in territorial defense: everyone feels a strong need to contribute more (05:03)
• The West is consolidating; there’s less naivete about Russia (07:45)
• People around the world can and need to contribute (09:34)
• True heroism is coming to the fore; this could be a wake up call for a lot of us (11:35)
• Bence Ganti, Integral leader and director of the Integral European Conference, talks about the situation in Hungary and the coming IEC in May 2022 (12:32)
• Kateryna’s perspective on recent weeks: facing an overwhelming, multi-fronted battle on all levels, it’s impossible to give yourself space to take care of yourself (15:40) 
• In Russia, children in school are taught only propaganda; refugee children are traumatized and don’t speak the language of their host countries (18:28)
• Disappointment and frustration with opinion leaders, prominent intellectuals in the West, writing articles totally disconnected from the realities of the Ukrainian situation (19:55)
• Ukraine is slowing gaining agency on several fronts (21:35)
• This is a meta historic conflict; the West saying this conflict is their fault or the US’ fault is going too far; Russia has been threatening Ukraine since before the US existed (24:40)
• Otto Scharmer’s article about collaborative diplomacy is not good enough; it’s abstract and divorced from the physical realities of the situation (27:52)
• The reality is: “If Russia stops fighting, there will be no war. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no more Ukraine.” (30:38)
• What is the most strategic response we can make in this situation to directly address this tragedy and its needs? (32:38)
• Children in primary school are very tuned in to the collective: smart teachers are using military analogies when teaching (35:12)
• We have to integrate the “red” stage of development in the educational system…we have to let boys play with guns and speak about it (37:40)
• We need an Integral stage to understand when to act with which stages (38:57) 
• Green = a postmodern stage where we strive for harmony, unity, authenticity, connectedness and believe only with love we will solve all conflicts; red = the warrior stage; Integral = a yogi with a rifle (40:35) 
• Ukrainians fighting from a place of love, somehow they are integrated (43:17)

• Integral European Conference 2022: World Peace with the Integral Approach, online and in Budapest
• Vytautas Bučiūnas' website: Upgrade of Leader’s Operating SystemTM
• Presencing Institute, founded in 2006 by MIT Sloan School of Management Senior Lecturer Otto Scharmer and colleagues to create an “action research platform at the intersection of science, consciousness, and profound social and organizational change.”
• Otto Scharmer, “Putin and the Power of Collective Action from Shared Awareness”
• Robb Smith, “Russia is Catalyzing the Transformation Age”
• Michael McFaul, columnist and former ambassador to Russia, “Ukraine is Putin’s Afghanistan,”
• Michael McFaul, “Why the West Must Boost Military Assistance to Ukraine”
• Robert Person & Michael McFaul, “What Putin Fears Most”
• Otto Scharmer, Theory U*

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

---

How can I help? iAwake's Funnel to Help, Heal, and Support the Ukrainian People

Deep Transformation sponsor, iAwake Technologies, sends all funds raised on behalf of the Ukrainian people directly to Kateryna Yasko and Vytautas Bučiūnas, who are giving on-the-ground support to Ukrainian refugees in the bordering countries, and sending life-saving medicines and emergency first aid kits into Ukraine via trusted drivers. Sending money directly to the people who are doing the work is much more effective at this stage than sending money to an established NGO or other aid organization, as there is a lot of paperwork and bureaucratic red tape that greatly delays the money from reaching the people who need it the most.

→ Donate here

Please know that 100% of your donation (after PayPal fees) will go directly to Kateryna and Vytautas to be used at their discretion to address the greatest needs as this terrible situation unfolds hour to hour, day to day. This couple has our absolute trust and confidence that they will use the funds we send them in the best and most compassionate and effective way possible.

#StandWithUkraine

---

Kateryna Yasko (Ukraine) is an organizational psychologist, a trainer for the development of emotional intelligence, trust, cooperation, effective communication, and peaceful conflict resolution, and co-founder of the consulting company U-Integral. Her academic background is in the area of international relations and law (MSc), business (MBA), and psychology (MSc). She bases her programs on the principles of Ken Wilber’s Integral approach and Marshall Rosenberg's Nonviolent Communication, and is certified in Spiral Dynamics Integral and in Susanne Cook-Greuter’s Maturity Assessment Profile. Kateryna is also head of the public association "International Institute for Integral Development" and a founder of the educational initiative EMPATIA.PRO, specializing in bringing  holistic approaches into educational leadership and learning cultures.

Vytautas Bučiūnas (Lithuania–Ukraine) is a co-founder and managing partner of U-Integral, an integral leadership development company. Vytautas also has vast experience as a top manager in the banking sector including working as the Head of Resident Office, Senior Banker, Associate Director at the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (Russia, Ukraine). Vytautas' professional profile includes building organizational units from scratch, carrying out large-scale transformations, and managing crises. Vytautas is a certified Integral Master Coach™ (Integral Coaching Canada), an ICF Professional Certified Coach (PCC)™, and the only business consultant in Ukraine certified in Leadership Maturity Framework – Maturity Assessment for Professionals (LMF-MAP) and Global Leadership Profile (GLP). Vytautas explores the development of human consciousness and complex social systemsfrom a holistic perspective. He considers the growth of a critical mass of mature leaders with systemic thinking and transformational capabilities to be the key to society's healthy development.

Bence Ganti, MA, is the main organizer, co-founder, and director of the Integral European Conferences (since 2014) and the co-founder of Integral Europe team (since 2012). He also created the Integral Academy in Budapest, a 3-year adult education program on integral psychology in 2006. Bence is an integrally oriented clinical psychologist, vipassana meditator, and international teacher of integral psychology. Being a dual citizen of the USA and Hungary, Bence bridges cultures delivering keynote addresses, making presentations, and leading experiential workshops worldwide, including his version of a cutting-edge we-space practice called Integral Flow Experience. In the US, he has taught integral psychology at Meridian University and San Francisco State University and at integral events at  Bay Area Integral, Integral Center in Boulder, and the Integral Theory Conferences. He also represented integral consciousness during the World Economic Forum week in Davos, Switzerland, in 2019.

---

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 21 (Part 2 of 2) | Steve McIntosh, philosopher, author of the groundbreaking book Developmental Politics, and co-founder of the Institute for Cultural Evolution, outlines an extraordinary framework to make sense of our political conflicts—extraordinary in that it points to ways through and out of our persistent polarity consciousness. Steve convincingly argues our opportunity is right now: to create a synthesis, a cooperative agreement space, that transcends and includes thesis and antithesis, left and right, individual and community. Steve’s is a passionate and prophetic voice; there is hope for politics. With vertical development we can recover a common sense of truth, a common sense of goodness—transcendent ideals could become social norms. Steve ends with an invitation to listeners to investigate this new concept of cultural intelligence and the implications of the new truth: consciousness and culture co-evolve. Recorded on September 8, 2021.

“An Invitation to Creating a World That Works for Everybody”

• The practice of virtues: character development is an important psychological technology (01:34)
• Deep happiness, Aristotle’s eudaimonia (05:07)
• Reestablishing cultural agreements around transcendent character development: an “upward current of the good” (06:48)
• How do you practice courage? (11:26)
• The magnetism towards being better: towards the good, the true, the beautiful (12:12)
• The evolutionary power of value polarities (13:05) 
• Understanding the new inter-subjective We Space: a social medicine that can help heal the wounds of history (20:11)
• How do we begin to walk this path of cultural emergence and post-progressivism as a practice? This new truth that consciousness and culture co-evolve? (21:43)
• The need to build a political movement, break through into mainstream culture with the new truth of the vertical dimension of development (25:27)
• Truth is one of the casualties of the current culture wars (28:25)
• How does technology come into it? (35:05)
• The Black Death plague and the impact of COVID-19 (38:14)
• With post-progressivism, we’re trying to negate the negations of progressivism (40:18)
• The role of contemplative practices and spiritual development in fostering psychological development and helping transcendent ideals become social norms (43:10)
• An invitation to listeners to participate and investigate this new cultural intelligence (48:41)

• Aristotle’s eudaimonia, the highest human good
• Create your personal Portrait of the Good, online character development exercise at Institute for Cultural Evolution
• Lao Tzu, Heraclitus, Nicholas of Cusa
• The Post-Progressive Post (now The Developmentalist)
• The Worldview Questionnaire at The Developmentalist
• Aldous Huxley, Island*
• Al Gore’s movie, An Inconvenient Truth
• Winston Churchill, “...truth should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies”
• Jesus, “...the truth will set you free”
• Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, The Phenomenology of Spirit*
• Steve McIntosh, Developmental Politics: How America Can Grow Into a Better Version of Itself*
• Institute for Cultural Evolution, co-founded by Steve McIntosh
• Post-progressive.org is now The Developmentalist.org
• Steve McIntosh's author website is stevemcintosh.com.

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

---

Steve McIntosh, J.D. is author of Developmental Politics—How America Can Grow Into a Better Version of Itself (Paragon House 2020), and co-author of Conscious Leadership—Elevating Humanity Through Business (Penguin 2020), with John Mackey and Carter Phipps. McIntosh is president of the Institute for Cultural Evolution think tank, which focuses on the cultural roots of America’s political problems. His work has appeared in USA Today, Real Clear Politics, The Daily Beast, The Hill, Areo Magazine, and The Developmentalist. He has been interviewed on NPR, Oxford Review, Rebel Wisdom, and many other podcasts. His author website is: stevemcintosh.com.

---

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 20 (Part 1 of 2) | Steve McIntosh, philosopher, author of the groundbreaking book Developmental Politics, and co-founder of the Institute for Cultural Evolution, outlines an extraordinary framework to make sense of our political conflicts—extraordinary in that it points to ways through and out of our persistent polarity consciousness. Steve convincingly argues our opportunity is right now: to create a synthesis, a cooperative agreement space, that transcends and includes thesis and antithesis, left and right, individual and community. Steve’s is a passionate and prophetic voice; there is hope for politics. With vertical development we can recover a common sense of truth, a common sense of goodness—transcendent ideals could become social norms. Steve ends with an invitation to listeners to investigate this new concept of cultural intelligence and the implications of the new truth: consciousness and culture co-evolve. Recorded on September 8, 2021.

“Almost every problem is a problem of consciousness.”

• Introducing Steve McIntosh and Developmental Politics (02:08)
• Normality is not the ceiling of development—more like a collective form of developmental arrest (04:04)
• We can keep growing, not only personally but politically and culturally; right now we have the perfect conditions for the next phase to emerge: a cultural renaissance (06:22)
• Progressive spirituality: the intersection of science and spirituality (08:08)
• Spiral Dynamics, the Cultural Creatives, and Integral consciousness (10:51)
• The emergence of the post-progressive worldview and the profound truth that consciousness evolves (13:02)
• A calling to apply the new worldview to politics, climate change: founding the Institute of Cultural Evolution (15:17)
• Making the ideas and political philosophy of developmental politics accessible to people, so people can recognize their worldview and the positive and negative of other worldviews too (20:23)
• The structure of emergence in the noosphere: America’s trajectory in the world is not done yet—we can grow our way out of this and give birth to a new worldview (25:10)
• Breaking out of modernity: progressive postmodernism breaks the spell of the old establishment (29:04)
• Our bedrock values have energetic properties like magnets, attracting and repelling. How can we create new forms of agreement so we can all work together in a new type of culture? Cultural intelligence (32:19)
• Recognizing how the hinges of history continue to animate our political climate and that the dialectical pattern of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis is in the structure of emergence itself (34:58)
• Worldviews oscillate between focusing on the whole/community and focusing on the part/individual (36:33)
• Tug of war between moral systems on either side of modernity with traditionalism pulling on one side and progressivism pulling from the other (37:49)
• Our current opportunity is to create a synthesis, a new cultural agreement space, that includes traditionalism, modernity, and progressivism, characterized by interdependence (39:07)
• How can we overcome hyperpolarization if people have their own facts? (42:49)
• Transcendence is the key to reclaiming a sense of common good and restoring sufficient unity for a functioning democracy (44:37) 
• Higher ground rather than common ground: a new political agreement space, where people can begin to appreciate that the existential polarity in politics is permanent and interdependent, where people can embody the left and the right in themselves, preserving what’s right and fixing what’s wrong (47:07)

• Steve McIntosh, Developmental Politics: How America Can Grow into a Better Version of Itself*
• Steve McIntosh, Integral Consciousness and the Future of Evolution*
• Steve McIntosh, Evolution’s Purpose*
• Institute for Cultural Evolution, think tank co-founded by Steve McIntosh with Carter Phipps
• Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, The Phenomenon of Man*
• Paul Ray, The Cultural Creatives: How 50 Million People Are Changing the World*
• Clare Graves, adult developmental stages psychologist foundational to Spiral Dynamics
• Don Beck & Christopher Cowan, Spiral Dynamics*
• Integral Institute and Ken Wilber
• Al Gore’s movie, An Inconvenient Truth
• Jonathan Haidt, The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion
• Esalen Institute, leading center for exploring human potential
• John Mackey, Carter Phipps, and Steve McIntosh, Conscious Leadership*
• John Mackey and Raj Sisodia, Conscious Capitalism*
• Brandon Goleman, Emotional Intelligence*
• Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen
• Herbert Spencer’s Theory of Social Evolution
• Charles Taylor, A Secular Age*
• Steve McIntosh’s author website: stevemcintosh.com

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

---

Steve McIntosh, J.D. is author of Developmental Politics—How America Can Grow Into a Better Version of Itself (Paragon House 2020), and co-author of Conscious Leadership—Elevating Humanity Through Business (Penguin 2020), with John Mackey and Carter Phipps. McIntosh is president of the Institute for Cultural Evolution think tank, which focuses on the cultural roots of America’s political problems. His work has appeared in USA Today, Real Clear Politics, The Daily Beast, The Hill, Areo Magazine, and The Developmentalist. He has been interviewed on NPR, Oxford Review, Rebel Wisdom, and many other podcasts. His author website is: stevemcintosh.com.

---

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 19 | Connie Zweig, Ph.D., Elder, award-winning author, and Shadow expert, has provided us with a rare gift in her recent book, The Inner Work of Age: Shifting from Role to Soul. Upon discovering there was a surprising lack of any information, resources, or even language with which to contextualize the inner work of aging and the crucial rite of passage to elderhood, Connie has given us just that. In this conversation, we come face to face with our own inner ageist shadow character and we learn that if we do the inner work, we can make the all-important shift from doing to being, let go of our roles, begin to identify with our spiritual nature, and open the door of our awareness to further developmental stages. Rather than becoming seniors in decline, Connie illuminates who we can become as elders. “The world needs elders now: for their compassion, their gratitude, their generosity, their skills, their shadow awareness, and their spiritual development. The world is starved for this nourishment.” Recorded on October 6, 2021.

“There is a whisper, a restless longing, inside of people for something more.”

• The surprising lack of information, language, and context for inner soul work for those of us living beyond midlife (03:44)
• Connie realizing her own “ageist” bias, and how ageism is internalized from our culture (08:08)
• The first inner obstacle to overcome on our way to elderhood is the Inner Ageist shadow character (10:06) 
• Internalized ageism affects our health, cognitive and physical, quality of life, and longevity and becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy (10:44)
• Challenges that elders face specific to our time (12:15)
• Aging from the inside out, from “role to soul,” doing contemplative practice and inner work, turning in, is available to all regardless of circumstance (15:32)
• What practices and spiritual experiences have led Connie on the wisdom path? (19:49)
• Connie’s primary practice now: gratitude (23:07)
• What can we become, as elders? (24:39)
• Aging is a crucial rite of passage; it becomes a developmental process if we’re open to doing the inner work (28:38)
• A door opens for us to ask again, Who am I? Who am I now? (31:26)
• From role to soul: what is the soul? And letting go of our roles (33:07)
• Differences in the ways masculine and feminine types tend to struggle with letting go of roles (35:58)
• Holy longing: the calling to be something more and the suffering that is caused when we don’t fulfill our higher needs (38:12)
• Gerotranscendence: a spontaneous movement towards a transcendent perspective as people age (43:31)
• The shadow defined and the shadow of spirituality (45:32)
• How can we improve our capacity to work with the shadow? (49:14)
• The world needs elders now (51:12)

• Roger Walsh & Frances Vaughan, Paths Beyond Ego*
• Connie Zweig & Jeremiah Abrams, Meeting the Shadow*
• Connie Zweig & Steve Wolf, Romancing the Shadow*
• Connie Zweig, Meeting the Shadow of Spirituality*
• Connie Zweig, The Inner Work of Age: Shifting from Role to Soul*
• Father Thomas Keating
• Becca Levy, PhD studied ageism at Yale and how it affects our health, quality of life, and longevity
• Margaret Mead, Culture and Commitment: A Study of the Generation Gap*
• Turning Inward with Ram Dass (shifting from roles to souls)
• Depth Psychology
• Vedanta, one of the 6 schools of Hindu philosophy
• Abraham Maslow, A Theory of Human Motivation*
• “The Holy Longing,” a poem by Goethe (this version translated by Robert Bly)
• Marion Woodman, The Owl Was a Baker’s Daughter: Obesity, Anorexia Nervosa, and the Repressed Feminine*
• Lars Tornstam, Gerotranscendence: A Developmental Theory of Positive Aging*
• Ken Wilber, The Religion of Tomorrow*
• The “shadow,” a term coined by Carl Jung to represent the personal unconscious

---

Connie Zweig, Ph.D., is a retired therapist, co-author of Meeting the Shadow and Romancing the Shadow, author of Meeting the Shadow of Spirituality and a novel, A Moth to the Flame: The Life of Sufi Poet Rumi. Her new book, The Inner Work of Age: Shifting from Role to Soul (Sept. 2021), extends shadow-work into late life and teaches aging as a spiritual practice. Connie has been doing contemplative practices for 50 years. She is a wife and grandmother and was initiated as an Elder by Sage-ing International in 2017. After investing in all these roles, she is practicing the shift from role to soul.

---

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 18 (Part 2 of 2) | Jonathan Rowson, brilliant, driven, articulate, shines a bright light of understanding on the metacrisis we face today, what feeds it, and what could help us find our way through. What is metamodernity and what does it have to offer? Is the ecological crisis fundamentally an educational crisis? Can we grow into our problem rather than thinking of ourselves as “failing beings” as the climate collapses around us? From the metaperspective to the deeply personal, Rowson shares his wisdom, including life lessons he gleaned from being a chess Grandmaster, before becoming a philosopher, research fellow, nonprofit director, and author. Recorded on November 17, 2021.

“Let’s be careful what we’re talking about because we’re creating a world…”

• What is metamodernity and what does it have to offer us? (01:04)
• The “cultural between”: serious about the meaning of life (04:48)
• The political “after”: an antidote to hyper modernity, returning to basic human sensibilities and a time-rich relationship with life (06:22)
• The mystic beyond: a return to metaphysics (08:28)
• What does “a time between worlds” mean? (09:32)
• We’ve got to perceive the context clearly in order to orient ourselves: our interiors, our capacity for growth, bio precarity, technology innovation, and more (12:50)
• On the nuances of confusion (14:27) 
• Can we grow into our climate collapse problem rather than thinking of ourselves as “failing beings”? (17:07)
• The importance of Bildung = transformative, civic, and aesthetic education (18:17)
• Is the ecological crisis fundamentally an educational crisis? (20:18)
• What chess taught Jonathan about life: jewels of wisdom from The Moves That Matter (23:42)
• Concentration = freedom (25:31)
• Making peace with our struggles: we’re always going to be a work in progress (30:38)
• Successful underachievement and living with regret (35:42)
• Living in an algorithm-driven culture (40:52)
• Longing for a clearer sense of relationship with the divine, the cosmopoetics of life (43:59)
• Our unbidden tears are the best of us (46:03)

• Hanzi Freinacht, The Listening Society: A Metamodern Guide to Politics (Vol 1)*
• Hanzi Freinacht, Nordic Ideology: A Metamodern Guide to Politics (Vol 2)*
• Jonathan Rowson, Metamodernism and the Perception of Context: The Cultural Between, the Political After and the Mystic Beyond
• David Foster Wallace, David Foster Wallace-Books
• Cobra Khai, martial arts comedy-drama
• Stranger Things, movie
• John Vervaeke, award-winning lecturer on subjects like Awakening from the Meaning Crisis
• Jürgen Habermas, German philosopher
• Jonathan Rowson, essay, Metamodernism and the Perception of Context: The Cultural Between, the Political After and the Mystic Beyond
• Confucius’ Rectification of Names
• Thomas Metzinger, German philosopher
• Bildung, linking philosophy and education for both personal and cultural maturation
• Jonathan Rowson, “Bildung in the 21st Century: Why Sustainable Prosperity Depends on Reimagining Education”
• Zachary Stein, Education in a Time Between Worlds: Essays on the Future of Schools, Technology, and Society*
• Jonathan Rowson, The Moves That Matter: A Chess Grandmaster on the Game of Life*
• Jonathan Rowson, Aeon magazine article Concentrate!
• The Bhagavad Gita
• Jonathan Rowson, Spiritualise: Revitalising Spirituality to Address 21st Century Challenges
• Jonathan Rowson, anthology Metamodernity: Dispatches from a Time Between Worlds: Crisis and Emergence in Metamodernity*
• Perspectiva, systems-soul-society.com, interdisciplinary nonprofit organization developing responses to our epistemic metacrisis; Jonathan is co-founder and director.
• Jonathanrowson.me

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

---

Jonathan Rowson, Ph.D. is co-founder and director of Perspectiva, an organization committed to understanding the relationship between systems, souls, and society in theory and practice, with a view to help overcome collective immunity to transformation in a time between worlds. He is also an open society fellow and a research fellow at the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity at the University of Surrey. He  was previously Director of the Social Brain Centre at the RSA, where he authored a range of influential research reports on behaviour change, climate change, and spirituality, and curated and chaired a range of related events. By background, Jonathan is an applied philosopher with degrees from Oxford, Harvard, and Bristol Universities. In a former life he was a chess Grandmaster and British Champion and views the game as a continuing source of insight and inspiration. His book, The Moves that Matter: A Grandmaster on the Game of Life, was published in 2019.

---

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 17 (Part 1 of 2) | Jonathan Rowson, brilliant, driven, articulate, shines a bright light of understanding on the metacrisis we face today, what feeds it, and what could help us find our way through. What is metamodernity and what does it have to offer? Is the ecological crisis fundamentally an educational crisis? Can we grow into our problem rather than thinking of ourselves as “failing beings” as the climate collapses around us? From the metaperspective to the deeply personal, Rowson shares his wisdom, including life lessons he gleaned from being a chess Grandmaster, before becoming a philosopher, research fellow, nonprofit director, and author. Recorded on November 17, 2021.

“Let’s be careful what we’re talking about because we’re creating a world…”

• What are Jonathan’s daily practices (while also being very much “in the world” these days)? (05:37)
• Being a cartological hedonist: intellectual mapmaking (10:27)
• What does Christianity have to offer that we should be paying attention to? (11:58)
• Becoming “construct aware” in the political spectrum and elsewhere: cultural progress depends on it (14:29)
• The UK Brexit quagmire: what are we talking about when we say democracy? (18:32)
• Why developmental psychology may not be the best lens to look at our culture and politics (20:15)
• What is the most strategic contribution you can make? (29:45)
• Progressive imperialism: assuming everyone is or could be on the same page—but conflict and opposition will always be a feature of the world (32:04)
• Who is included in the word “we,” getting people to face up to the fallen nature of the world, and the Manichaean worldview (34:51)
• The contemplative perspective and our fundamental state of delusion (36:30)
• Underlying delusion in the progressive community that there is a fundamental “right” way or that we will come to a common agreement on issues like climate (38:28)
• The imperative to mobilize to face the epistemic crisis as well as the environmental crisis (40:23)
• How do we work together in a context where we may disagree and dislike each other: making friends with conflict (42:05)
• The metacrisis, confusion, and the bottomless mystery: a time between worlds (45:08)
• Carlos Castenada’s 4 traps for the person of knowledge: fear, power, clarity, old age (47:57)
• Confusion is not necessarily a bad thing (48:35)

• Jonathan Rowson, The Moves That Matter: A Chess Grandmaster on the Game of Life*
• Perspectiva, systems-soul-society.com, interdisciplinary nonprofit organization based in London, developing responses to our epistemic metacrisis; Jonathan is co-founder and director
• Jonathan Rowson, essay Tasting the Pickle: Ten Flavours of Meta-Crisis and the Appetite for a New Civilisation
• Jonathan Rowson, Spiritualise: Revitalising Spirituality to Address 21st Century Challenges
• Jonathan Rowson, anthology Metamodernity: Dispatches from a Time Between Worlds: Crisis and Emergence in Metamodernity*
• Jonathan Rowson, essay, Metamodernism and the Perception of Context: The Cultural Between, the Political After and the Mystic Beyond
• Vedantic philosophy
• Confucius’ Rectification of Names
• Robert Kegan, The Evolving Self (first chapter “The Unrecognized Genius of Jean Piaget”)*
• Alistair McIntosh, Hell and High Water: Climate Change, Hope and the Human Condition*
• Aldous Huxley, Island*
• The Manichaean worldview
• Daniel Schmachtenberger, founding member of The Consilience Project, aimed at improving public sensemaking and dialogue 
• Carlos Castaneda, The Teachings of Don Juan*

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

---

Jonathan Rowson, Ph.D. is co-founder and director of Perspectiva, an organization committed to understanding the relationship between systems, souls, and society in theory and practice, with a view to help overcome collective immunity to transformation in a time between worlds. He is also an open society fellow and a research fellow at the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity at the University of Surrey. He  was previously Director of the Social Brain Centre at the RSA, where he authored a range of influential research reports on behaviour change, climate change, and spirituality, and curated and chaired a range of related events. By background, Jonathan is an applied philosopher with degrees from Oxford, Harvard, and Bristol Universities. In a former life he was a chess Grandmaster and British Champion and views the game as a continuing source of insight and inspiration. His book, The Moves that Matter: A Grandmaster on the Game of Life, was published in 2019.

---

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 16 | Kateryna Yasko and Vytautas Bučiūnas crossed the border into Lithuania three days before this conversation took place, after a five-day exodus from Kyiv, following the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. This conversation is a call for action and support of the incredibly brave Ukrainian people, and illuminates their willingness to fight to the death to throw out the invaders who are there to crush their freedom and make Ukraine a colony of Putin’s Russia. This is an informative, inspirational, and heartbreaking dialogue with two exceptionally insightful Integral leaders from the Ukraine—about propaganda and myth-making in our post-truth world, about integrating power, force, and love, about a new worldwide unity, and how the Integral perspective might pave the way towards world peace. Recorded March 5, 2022.

“One nation has opened the hearts of the whole world. What kind of conversations should we have now to foster this care and compassion, and move it in a constructive direction?”

• Witnessing the beginning of this phase of Putin’s aggression: the Revolution of Dignity and the Annexation of Crimea in 2013 and 2014 (04:29)
• The Russian propaganda machine: painting Ukraine as a fascist country of Nazis (06:32)
• Putin’s masterful creation of a myth in this post-truth world (10:05)
• This is a fight for truth (17:40)
• Is there anything good about Putin? (23:51)
• Kateryna & Vytautas’ experience: the beginning of the invasion and the exodus to Lithuania (26:31)
• Sirens and bomb shelters are becoming routine; fear has turned to anger (39:55)
• Europe is united, NATO is united, Ukraine is united (42:15)
• How this invasion has reinforced Second Tier consciousness in the West (44:49)
• How long can Ukraine hold out? Are the sanctions enough? What about a Russian oil embargo? (46:58)
• What can Western countries do, what are they not doing, and why sanctions are so useful (50:58)
• Russian oligarchs and Putin in his bunker (54:50)
• Do we need to allow Putin to save face or just fight to the bitter end? (58:21)
• Denazification, demilitarization…dePutinification and other parallels (01:01:41)
• Putin’s narrative and the Russian Orthodox Church (01:03:01)
• Europa = Gayropa, Putin has assumed the role of protector of traditional values (1:06:18)
• How can we use the Integral metaperspective to heal what’s happening? (1:10:43)
• Why what Ukraine is doing is so inspiring: fighting out of love, not fear (01:12:05)
• Ukraine and others’ “showing up” is very Second Tier (01:13:06)
• One nation has opened the hearts of the whole world. How shall we integrate this and foster the care and compassion to steer it in a constructive direction? (01:14:18)
• Integrating power and love: facing our need to engage power with force (01:15:30)
• A new focus on World Peace from a Second Tier perspective (01:19:21)
• Glory to Ukraine, glory to heroes (01:22:15)

• Vytautas Bučiūnas' website: Upgrade of Leader’s Operating System
• The Revolution of Dignity
• The Annexation of Crimea
• Brave New World of Putin, propaganda article waiting to be published after the occupation of Ukraine
• Philosopher Alexander Filonenko, Ph.D., “We Need Holiness”
• Spiral Dynamics’ Second Tier of consciousness
• The Russian Orthodox Church
• Russian Ministry of Culture website
• Adam Kahane, Power and Love: A Theory and Practice of Social Change*
• Martin Luther King, Jr.’s quote, “Power without love…”
• World Peace with the Integral Approach, Integral European Conference 2022
• Gravitas Plus, "Why Putin wants Ukraine,'' an overview of the Russian-Ukrainian crisis

How can I help? List of resources curated by RazomForUkraine.org

#StandWithUkraine

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos

Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

---

Kateryna Yasko (Ukraine) is an organizational psychologist, a trainer for the development of emotional intelligence, trust, cooperation, effective communication, and peaceful conflict resolution, and co-founder of the consulting company U-Integral. Her academic background is in the area of international relations and law (MSc), business (MBA), and psychology (MSc). She bases her programs on the principles of Ken Wilber’s Integral approach and Marshall Rosenberg's Nonviolent Communication, and is certified in Spiral Dynamics Integral and in Susanne Cook-Greuter’s Maturity Assessment Profile. Kateryna is also head of the public association "International Institute for Integral Development" and a founder of the educational initiative EMPATIA.PRO, specializing in bringing  holistic approaches into educational leadership and learning cultures. 

Vytautas Bučiūnas (Lithuania–Ukraine) is a co-founder and managing partner of U-Integral, an integral leadership development company. Vytautas also has vast experience as a top manager in the banking sector including working as the Head of Resident Office, Senior Banker, Associate Director at the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (Russia, Ukraine). Vytautas' professional profile includes building organizational units from scratch, carrying out large-scale transformations, and managing crises. Vytautas is a certified Integral Master Coach™ (Integral Coaching Canada), an ICF Professional Certified Coach (PCC)™, and the only business consultant in Ukraine certified in Leadership Maturity Framework – Maturity Assessment for Professionals (LMF-MAP) and Global Leadership Profile (GLP). Vytautas explores the development of human consciousness and complex social systemsfrom a holistic perspective. He considers the growth of a critical mass of mature leaders with systemic thinking and transformational capabilities to be the key to society's healthy development.