Delivering Adventure

Is good judgment the most important skill to have when it comes to delivering adventure? In this episode, professional adventure guide and athlete Will Gadd returns to help us to make the case that it is. The power of good judgment is often the difference between delivering exceptional adventures and catastrophic misadventures. Mastering this skill is a must for anyone who wants to deliver adventure to themselves or others effectively.

Will Gadd is one of the perfect people to help us to explore this topic. Will is used to making high consequence decisions for himself and others from ice climbing Niagara Falls, to setting world records for paragliding, to elite-level white water kayaking.

Guest Bio

Will Gadd is a professional sponsored athlete and ACMG Alpine Guide. Among many of Will’s feats are first accents ice climbing Niagara Falls, Helmcken Falls, Icebergs and many other ice climbs around the world including on the top of Mt Kilimanjaro. Will is also a world-class white-water kayaker and paraglider. He has twice set the world record for the longest paragliding flight.

As an elite athlete and professional guide, Will is extremely experienced when it comes to evaluating risk and making decisions that could have serious consequences for himself and the people he is leading, or working with. This makes Will one of the perfect people to talk about the power of judgment.

Guest Links

Contact Will to be your Guide, Instructor or Speaker: https://willgadd.com/

Instagram: @realwillgadd

The Last Ascent, Kilimanjaro: https://www.redbull.com/ca-en/films/the-last-ascent-will-gadds-return-to-kilimanjaro

A Fun Ted Talk: Three Simple Tools to Manage Risk, Fear and Children: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTdFkPTTnsA

Key Takeaways

Why decision making is the most important skill to have and how we can be better at it:

The Difference Maker: Good decisions are what separate great adventures from mishaps and misadventures.

Outcome Versus Process: A good decision and a good outcome are not always the same thing. Just because something worked out doesn’t mean we made a good decision. It could be that we were just lucky.

Power of judgement: Good judgment increases our chances of getting good outcomes, while poor judgment can increase our chances of getting bad outcomes, also known in adventure circles as misadventures.

Self-Awareness: One of the keys to being able to exercise good judgment and make good decisions is the ability to be self aware. A lack of self awareness leads to not knowing what is going on in our own head.  That can lead to us not recognizing what others are thinking.  On the other hand, an abundance of self awareness helps to us know our weaknesses and capabilities. It also helps us to recognize and manage human factors like bias.

Why decision-making is hard: We are often making very consequential decisions with limited information.  Adding to this is the fact that adventure guides and adventure instructors are often making decisions in complex environments with hard to predict weather, and changeable conditions. It can also be hard to know how the people they are working with will perform under stress.

Decision Making Strategies: These include collecting as much information as possible, slowing things down, and stepping away from people so that we can process information. It can also be helpful to avoid setting objectives that can be hard to change, although this isn’t always possible.

Role of a Guide: Overall, the role of a guide, instructor or leader is to reduce uncertainty so that there can be less drama. Excitement feels good, drama feels stressful and possibly much, much worse.

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Cover Photo by Christian Pondella

Every group needs a leader. If you are a professional adventure guide or instructor, there is an expectation that you can be the leader. While being the leader can be fun, it isn’t always easy for everyone.

In this episode, we explore what it takes to be the leader and how to do it effectively. Joining us to share her unique insight on leadership is Erin Tierney. Erin has had many leadership roles within the adventure industry. These include leading and managing teams of guides and guests as a ski guide and ski guide examiner. She is also the current President of the Canadian Ski Guides Association (CSGA) and the General Manager of Whistler Heli-Skiing.

Guest Links

Whistler Heli-Skiing: https://www.whistlerblackcomb.com/explore-the-resort/activities-and-events/whistler-heli-skiing/whistler-heli-skiing.aspx

Canadian Ski Guide Association: https://canskiguide.com/

The Avalanche Hour Podcast with Erin Tierney: https://soundcloud.com/user-23585762/tah-erin-tierney-csga-10

Guest Bio

Erin is a certified CSGA ski guide and the current President of the Canadian Ski Guide Association. In addition, to guiding in the Heli-ski industry since 1999, Erin is also a guide trainer and examiner with the Canadian Ski Guide Institute. Erin currently works as the General manager of Whistler Heli-skiing.

Erin has worked extensively with teams of guests and guides in a number of roles, which makes her a perfect person to give us some insights on being a leader!

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At some point in time, we all find ourselves in the role of being someone else’s guide. We could be guiding our friends, family or doing it professionally for strangers. In this episode, we try to answer the question of how guides provide exceptional value to the people they are leading? Joining us is Ken Bélanger.

Ken has been operating skiing, hiking, and cycling trips around the world through his company Elevation Guides. Ken taps into his extensive experience leading high end custom trips to share some of the secrets that go into delivering exceptional guided experiences.

Key Takeaways

To provide value as a guide:

Identify What People Really Want: Just because they might be asking for one thing doesn’t mean that is what they really want. This is where you have to be a curious detective. Remember, you can’t give people what they want if you don’t know what it is.

Make it Special for Them: This might be something you have done many times, but it could be the first time the people you are with have ever done. Ask yourself, how can I make this feel fresh? Are there aspects of this experience I can provide that they couldn’t get on their own or with someone else? Ken talked a lot about custom trips. In a way, every trip should be a custom trip.

Check in with People: Ask, is this what they want? Are they happy? Are they aware of the other options available to them? There is nothing worse than having someone go away from an experience feeling like they missed doing something better. It’s way better to uncover that early.

Great Guides are Selfless: A great guide puts service to others ahead of serving themselves. Regardless of whether you are being pay to be the leader, or you are leading your friends or family, you would be wise to adopt the mindset that the people you are with are your customers. As such, you may need to put your own aspirations aside if they conflict with the needs and goals of the people you are guiding.

Remember guiding family, friends and peers is harder than guiding strangers: The closer we are to people, the harder it can be for them so see us as being credible, regardless of how well intentioned, how professional, or how qualified we might be. Try not to take it personally.

Have sympathy: People can be scared, they can struggle to do things that are easy for us, they may not be as resilient, and they may not grasp information as well as we want them to. This last point is especially true when they are under duress. They may also struggle to imagine what you are telling them if they have no experience with that situation. This is where it is important to try to view the situation through their eyes.

Guest Links

Elevation Guides: www.elevationguides.ca

Ken Bélanger on Instagram: @elevationguides

Guest Bio

Ken Bélanger is an ACMG Ski, Hiking, and Via Ferrata Guide, CAA Professional Member, CANSI Level 1 Nordic Ski & Telemark instructor, CSIA level 1, and Advanced Wilderness Adventure Medic.

Although Ken grew up in Calgary not far from the mountains with his single father and two brothers, they didn’t have the financial means to explore them. It wasn’t until his late teens when he could self-fund trips that he finally discovered skiing and hiking.

He was immediately hooked. It was a steep learning curve to overcome his fear of heights and water, but within a few years he was instructing and guiding watersports, climbing, cycling, and nordic and telemark skiing.

Ken considers himself extremely fortunate to have learned under some fantastic guides and instructors along the way.

Now operating Elevation Guides with nearly 30 years of guiding experience in 23 countries, he couldn’t imagine a better career. Ken resides in Canmore, Alberta at the doorstep of beautiful Banff National.

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Why should anyone hire a guide? If you are in the role of being a guide, do you know why people would want your help? These are two of the topics that we explore with Ken Bélanger. Ken is the owner of Elevation Guides, and works around the world as a ski, hiking and cycling guide. Using his unique perspective as someone who has had a lot of guides and who has guided a lot of people, Ken shares with us why people hire guides and why having a guide is valuable.

Key Takeaways

Reasons why People Hire a Guide: They want to go somewhere they either can’t or don’t think they can access on their own. They want to improve their skills or learn something so they can be better at what they are doing. They want to get more out of the experience by having someone else there with them, who can help to structure the experience in a positive way.

Guides help us with all the little details: These are things we might not have thought of or known about.

Guides help us to fast-track improvement:  They do this by showing us the short cuts, the better way to do things, they can help us to become better technically and show us how to be more efficient.

Guides can maximize the experience: By making the most of the time we have and helping us to manage the risks more effectively.

Help to build connections: They can connect us to the place and the activity by increasing understanding of where we are and what we are doing. This boosts our sense of place and purpose.

Guides and instructors help us to go farther: than they otherwise could or believed they could on their own thanks to coaching, support, knowing where to go and how to do it.

Guest Links

Elevation Guides: www.elevationguides.ca

Ken Bélanger on Instagram: @elevationguides

Guest Bio

Ken Bélanger is an ACMG Ski, Hiking, and Via Ferrata Guide, CAA Professional Member, CANSI Level 1 Nordic Ski & Telemark instructor, CSIA level 1, and Advanced Wilderness Adventure Medic.

Although Ken grew up in Calgary not far from the mountains with his single father and two brothers, they didn’t have the financial means to explore them. It wasn’t until his late teens when he could self-fund trips that he finally discovered skiing and hiking.

He was immediately hooked. It was a steep learning curve to overcome his fear of heights and water, but within a few years he was instructing and guiding watersports, climbing, cycling, and nordic and telemark skiing.

Ken considers himself extremely fortunate to have learned under some fantastic guides and instructors along the way.

Now operating Elevation Guides with nearly 30 years of guiding experience in 23 countries, he couldn’t imagine a better career. Ken resides in Canmore, Alberta at the doorstep of beautiful Banff National.

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What is adventure and how can we deliver it? These are just two of the topics that Mark Sedgwick and Jeff Marks help us to explore as we talk about adventure and the challenge zone. Mark and Jeff are two of the founders of the newly launched Professional Ski Instructors of Canada (PSIC). The PSIC has delivering “the adventure” at the core of its mission. Mark and Jeff walk through what “the adventure” is and how it relates to our challenge zone.

Key Takeaways

Interesting new Organization: Promoting the delivery of the entire experience, free of judgment, promoting development, recognizing that delivering these experiences requires a diverse skill set that includes both hard and soft skills.

Components of Adventure: Fun, safe, learning were three key components of adventure for the PSIC. To achieve an adventure, it has to be remembered as being enjoyable either in the moment or later, the experience has to fit inside people’s risk tolerance, and people generally want to feel like they have improved in some way.

The Challenge Zone: Tis the performance zone you are in when you are excited and can perform well, without being overwhelmed or bored. When we go above your challenge zone, we can become stressed, and our survival instincts can kick in. When we go below our challenge zone, we can become complacent and lose interest. The level of adversity we are exposed to determines where we are operating.

Adventure Happens in the Challenge Zone: This is where we are stimulated and can try new things without becoming frustrated. To deliver an adventure we need to create an environment here people can operate in their challenge zone.

Guest Links

Professional Ski Instructors of Canada (PSIC): www.psic.pro

Model of the Challenge Zone: https://deliveringadventure.com/the-adventure-zone/

Guest Bio

Mark Sedgwick is a proud product of the ski industry – skiing is his passion, and he is an obsessed student of the sport. His career spans over 35 years in the industry. He is currently President and co-founder of both the Professional ski instructors of Canada (PSIC) and 2XO Ski Consulting, offering his expertise as an industry advisor. He is a recognized and respected global thought leader and author in the ski space.

Mark spent 16 years as a senior executive with Whistler Blackcomb and played a strategic role in all aspects of the resort’s journey and growth as it became the most visited resort on the planet. During his tenure at Whistler Blackcomb, he was involved in the delivery of the 2010 Winter Olympic Games, a successful Initial Public Offering (IPO), leading to the establishment of Whistler Blackcomb as a publicly traded company. This series of achievements culminated in Whistler Blackcomb’s significant acquisition by Vail Resorts.

Mark's ski education spans three pathways: Austrian, Australian, and Canadian. Mark participated at two Interski events, representing Australia in 1995 and Canada as Technical Lead and Coach in 2023.

Like Mark, Jeff has worked extensively in the ski industry. Jeff was born and raised in the Canadian Rockies in Jasper and currently lives in Banff Alberta.

Jeff has had various leadership roles in the ski industry including Director of the Club Ski program in Banff and the Niseko Village Snow School in Japan as well as 12 years as Program Coordinator and National Program Director for the Canadian Ski Instructors Alliance.

Jeff has represented Canada at three Interski events including as Head Coach of the Canadian team in March, 2023 in Levi, Finland. 

Now being involved with the Professional Ski Instructors of Canada, Jeff finds himself again in a creative new challenge zone with an opportunity to do his best to support an industry and profession that he loves.  While being a founder of this new entity certainly keeps him busy, he keeps his connection to the core of the industry, teaching skiing for the Snow School at Lake Louise Ski Area.

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Delivering Adventure returns with Season 2. In this season, we continue to explore what it really takes to share adventure like a pro - with yourself, your family, your friends and as a profession.

Listen as top adventure guides, instructors, managers and marketers share their best stories, insights and trade secrets on how you can take yourself and others further.

This second season focusses on introducing the essential adventure skills like decision making, communicating risk, leadership, skill improvement, and so much more.

Your hosts Chris Kaipio and Jordy Shepherd use their extensive knowledge to supplement the lessons that their expert guests bring. Each episode explores a new topic with the goal being to tell the story of what it takes to deliver adventure at a pro level.

Go further, become better and achieve more. That's Delivering Adventure.

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Who regulates adventure? Who trains guides and professionals? Who advocates for access or promotes safety and skill development? The answer to all of these questions are organizations. Jordy and Chris are joined by Angela Hawse to explore the role of organizations in the delivery of adventure. Angela shares her perspective as the President of the American Mountain Guides Association. She discusses what everyone should know about how some of these organizations work, their challenges and the value that they bring to everyone.

Key Takeaways

Start small and evolve: Organizations tend to start with a group of people that band together to push forward a small number of objectives and then grow.

Anyone can help them to evolve: Everyone has the ability to use the power of their influence to drive change within these organizations by jointing boards, committees, and lobbying membership with solutions.

Organizations are groups of people: They are not faceless corporations. They can be contacted, influenced, and they often appreciate positive feedback!

These organizations are essential: They can play important roles in educating the public, creating and sharing best accepted practices, accrediting and regulating guides and instructors, and lobbying for protection, development and access.

Guest Links & Resources

American Mountain Guides Association: https://amga.com/

Angela’s Instagram @alpinist007

IRIS: https://irisalpine.com/about/guides/

The Power to Influence: how to get the best out of yourself and others - find it here

Partner Podcast

The Avalanche Hour: https://www.theavalanchehour.com

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The line between an adventure and a misadventure is often defined by our decisions, how we manage the challenges that we face and how the experience is remembered afterwards. In this episode, Bruce Wilson returns to share a story that seriously tested his skills to deliver adventure. This is a story from early in his sea kayak guiding career. Afterward, Chris and Jordy share their insights into the lessons that we can all learn from Bruce’s experience and how he ultimately turned what could have been a disaster into an exciting adventure for his clients.

Key takeaways:

Human factors can compromise judgement: These factors include bias, blindness and a lack of foresight.

Pressure to deliver: Every guide can succumb to the pressure to deliver an amazing adventure, even when they have concerns about about the wisdom of doing so.

Letting people suffer to convince them: Sometimes, a leader has to expose people to a small measure of the adversity they are going to face, so they can understand why following a course of action is not in their best interest.

Practice failure: Spending time to practice rescue, recovery and reactions skills effectively, can save time and stress in a moment of crisis.

Debrief: Taking time to talk about challenging and traumatic experiences can be the difference between whether a situation is remembered as an adventure or a misadventure.

Guest Links

You can contact Bruce through Wolf Warrior Guide Services

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How can we help people to succeed when they are faced with the challenges that come with adventure? In this episode, Sylvia Forest draws upon her experience to share some of the key strategies that have allowed her to help others to succeed.

Sylvia has worked as a national park warden, mountain guide, guide trainer and examiner and is the current President of the Association of Canadian Mountain Guides.

Key Takeaways

Safe environment: Anyone in a leadership position can work to create an environment that is as physically safe as possible, free of judgment and harassment, and full of support.

Involve people where you can:  Involving people in the decision making process can help to give them ownership over the experience.

Create a team atmosphere: People want to feel like they belong. Involving people in the decision-making process, in leadership positions, and in tasks helps to create this.

Accept that people won’t always like what you are doing: Despite your best actions and intentions, you can’t be all things to all people. Knowing when to listen, when to push back and when to tune it out, is a hallmark of a great leader.

Guest Links & Resources

Association of Canadian Mountain Guides: Website

Guardians of the Peaks by Kathy Calvert and Dave Portman: Available Here

Understanding Group Formation: More Info Here

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Sylvia Forest joins us to explore her path into the adventure delivery industry from being a park warden to becoming an ACMG / IFMGA Mountain Guide. Sylvia shares some of her challenges, successes, and a few key pieces of wisdom that we can all learn from.

In addition to guiding, Sylvia is a guide trainer and examiner and is also the current President of the Association of Canadian Mountain Guides.

Key Takeaways

How to help yourself and others on the path to adventure includes:

Knowing yourself: Figuring out what you want to do in life starts with knowing yourself and what you are capable of.

Knowing your audience: it is hard to get the best out of people if you don’t know what they can do, their expectations, how they react under duress, and who they are as people.

The first one is to learn to embrace failure: Failures help to make us more resilient. 

Avoid punishing people for mistakes: While some people thrive on constant critiquing, most people don’t perform at their best when they are forced to dwell on their missteps. 

Help others to find value in failure: Some strategies that we can use include: highlighting lessons learned, successful strategies that were used, processes and what could be done to get a better result in the future, are all ways of turning a negative experience into a valuable one. Another important component is to draw attention to what went right.

Guest Links & Resources

Association of Canadian Mountain Guides: Website

Guardians of the Peaks by Kathy Calvert and Dave Portman: Available Here

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