Jason chats with David Heinemeier Hansson (2:03) about global governments reacting to COVID, Basecamp’s Twitter cycle blowup last spring when more than 1/3 of the company left, the shift from debating in the public square (Twitter) to debating in private with friends on group chats. We also talk about why David now sees a case for Bitcoin after Canada leans toward authoritarianism.

To wrap, Producer Rachel does another OK BOOMER segment where Rachel talks to Tony Tran (96:02), the founder and CEO of Lumanu, a company for creators to run their business.