T3, Josh and Tristan sat down with Jeroen Lemmens, who joined Cefetra Dairy in Singapore after spending multiple years trading dairy in China.

We’d spent months looking for the right person to talk to about China’s dairy buying habits past, present and future. The conversation gave some color to the disappearance of Chinese demand for American milk and some backbone to the hope that some of that demand will return in 2024.

Discussion ranged from trade agreements with New Zealand and the state of the hog market to domestic macroeconomic factors like China’s property market and industrial challenges.

Give it a listen, and let us know what you think.

Ted: Our special guest today is Jeroen Lemmens from Cefetra. Jeroen lives in Singapore and handles the Asian operations for Cefetra. Jeroen, why don't we start by telling us a little bit about yourself?

Jeroen: I'm glad to be here. Thank you for the invitation. My name is Jeroen Lemmens. I have now been in dairy for, I think, close to 24 years. I worked in various trading firms in Holland, dealing mostly in Middle East, Eastern Europe, and Russia.

Then, about seven years ago, I went to China. I was active in the China operation, importer-distributor dealing in dairy commodities, dealing with the biggest dairy companies in China, both in food and feed. I think that was a very valuable experience. China has a dynamic all of its own. I think that's also showing in the market at this moment.

Also, during the dark times, the last few years during COVID, that was actually a very trying time. Then, early this year, I decided to leave the company I was working for and join Cefetra. For Cefetra now, setting up the operation in Singapore for Asia with, again, also a focus on China again.

Ted: Wonderful. China for the United States is a key dairy trade partner. Really, so much of what happens in China, all of Southeast Asia tends to follow that lead. A lot of times the dynamics tend to be very similar.

It's especially an important trade partner for the US when it comes to nonfat dry milk, and whey powder and whey derivatives. There's been a lot of talk lately about ... The import volumes in China are dropping, and, of course, in the US, our questions are always, "What does that mean for dairy prices in the US?"

I want to start with a very simple question, which is, from a dairy perspective, what is going on in China? What is driving the decrease in imports of dairy products? Is it across the whole spectrum of dairy products, or is it just certain dairy products? What are your expectations, going forward?

Jeroen: I think at the moment there's a lot of different things happening at the same time, all affecting the markets. I think a lot of buyers actually have been expecting that, with the reopening of China after COVID, there would be a boom in consumption. People were trying to take positions to be ready for this.

Actually the import values this year so far have been bigger than last year, year to date, whereas the consumption dropped away by a variety of reasons. One is local consumption took a hit, especially the consumption of, let's say, higher grade, fresh products. That consumption reduced a lot, so that's less consumption, more imports. That's one reason early in the year.

Second one is that the local production of milk powder in China actually continues to be strong. It has been very, very strong last few years, but it's still growing. You have growing local raw milk availability coupled with reasonable stocks and lowered amount, and I think that's dragging the market down now to a certain extent.

Then, looking at nonfat for US, you have the other situation that's starting this year. There will be no duty for New Zealand milk farmers, full year. Normally, there would only be a period in early Jan that the first 100,000 tons of product would be low duty. Now it's no duty, full year.

That means that the incentive for buyers to go to ...