The next decade of global dairy growth may look very different from the last one.
For years, much of the world’s additional milk came from pasture-based systems. New Zealand added acres. Production expanded across parts of South America, Australia and Europe.
But those regions are not growing the way they once did.
Today, the next unit of milk is increasingly coming from grain-fed systems. That shift could put the U.S. in the driver’s seat for global dairy markets over the next 5 to 10 years.
In this episode of The Milk Check, host Ted Jacoby III and the Jacoby team are joined by Scott Briggs of Bridgecape Commodities.
Plus, beef income has helped support dairy farm margins and encouraged producers to breed more cows to beef.
What happens if beef prices fall?
The cows are ready. The plants are being built. What’s next for U.S. dairy?
Listen to The Milk Check episode 102: Who Wins the Next Decade of Milk Production?
Also available on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.
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We’d love to hear them. Submit below, and we might answer it on the show.
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Ted Jacoby III: Coming up on the Milk Check.
Ted Jacoby III: You’ve got the U.S. dairy industry now in a position where even the worst-case scenario continues to be a threat for Europe or the rest of the world from a milk supply standpoint.
Ted Jacoby III: Welcome to the Milk Check from T.C. Jacoby & Co., your complete guide to dairy markets, from the milking parlor to the supermarket shelf. I’m Ted Jacoby. Let’s dive in.
This week, we are excited to have Scott Briggs from Bridgecape Commodities joining us. Scott lives in Australia and really understands what’s going on with dairy markets on that side of the pond.
Scott, thank you so much for joining us. We’re excited to have you. Why don’t we start by having you tell everybody a little bit about yourself?
Scott Briggs: Thanks very much for the intro, Ted. I’m Scott Briggs, Bridgecape Commodities, based down in Melbourne, Australia and work with a number of Asian and Oceanic consumers to try and understand global dairy markets and try and help them risk manage. Thanks very much for the opportunity to be a part of the podcast.
Ted Jacoby III: Scott, thanks for joining us. We’re really excited to have you. We’re gonna have a little bit of a debate: How do U.S. dairy production costs compare to those in New Zealand, Europe, and China today? Do we think the U.S. is building a lasting competitive advantage?
And what does that mean for the global dairy market over the next five years? Scott, I’ll start with you. You’re based down under. Do you think the U.S. Is developing a competitive advantage, or do you think New Zealand will continue to be in the driver’s seat?
Scott Briggs: It’s a very big topic Ted, but I think the short answer is that yeah, the U.S. is really in a great position to drive global dairy markets over the next 5 to 10 years. One of the major things that’s changed probably since about 2015, we’ve been in a transition period where the marginal milk growth is not coming from a grass-fed system anymore, it’s coming from a grain-fed system.
Between 2000 when a lot of global dairy markets started to deregulate and we had falling trade controls and those sorts of things, quotas in the EU eventually coming off, between 2000 and 2015, the marginal milk growth was really coming from a grass-fed system, be it New Zealand growing the number of acres that it planted or the number of acres that it farmed.
Places like Uruguay or southern Brazil or Argentina growing quite strongly and other parts of Europe and Australia as well. So that was the driver of the growth, and that’s why we saw that volatility in global dairy markets driving back towards a grass-fed cost of production. But since then, those places have stopped growing and really the next unit of growth or the next liter of growth comes from grains and ultimately that does mean that the U.S. is in a great position to respond to the milk production needs of the world.
At the end of the day, you’ve got the greatest exportable surplus of grains and you’ve got a fantastic platform to grow from. That’s the 10,000-foot view of why the U.S. is in the box seat.
Ted Jacoby III: You mentioned that even New Zealand is starting to go towards a grain-based system.
Could you tell me a little bit more about that?
Scott Briggs: I would say that’s pretty incipient, Ted, but there’s certainly steps that are being taken in New Zealand that seem to mirror what Australia’s been doing for probably the last five to 10 years. You have a marginal cost of production that is grain-fed and it’s being led by the U.S. At the moment, if we looked at the margins in the U.S. for a dairy farmer, they’re pretty good given your beef situation.
But if you were to remove that beef situation or that beef revenue, you’re probably at a pretty low income over feed cost. But that’s still a highly profitable milk price for a grass-fed system. And a lot of the fixed costs are already being paid off, be it the farmer’s labor the equipment on the farm all of those overheads, they’re already being paid off by a pasture fed system.
So, there’s a huge marginal return for that extra liter of milk that comes out of a pasture fed system. If you look at the steps that have occurred in Australia and that are probably starting to come to New Zealand, it is a lot more shared housing in wetter areas, feed pads, dry feed pads.
It’s certainly not moving to the barn fed system that the States has got. More multiple calvers, if you like, to flatten out that milk curve. A lot more maize silage production, which just stores that little bit better and gives you more dry matter per acre as well. It’s these kind of marginal steps which have occurred a lot in Australia or even in some of our more grass-fed areas, and that are starting to occur in New Zealand.
And some of the incentives that are being given, market-wise, in New Zealand to produce that shoulder milk or that additional milk are starting to respond with additional investment on farm.
Ted Jacoby III: So, is maybe another way to put it that core pasture-based part of New Zealand dairy farming continues to be very profitable, but any marginal increase in milk production that would come from New Zealand, the cost of that marginal increase is probably the same or more likely probably less than the same marginal increase in milk production in the U.S.?
Scott Briggs: Look, I would say that the marginal cost of production out of the States is pretty good. If you think that you’ve already got all the infrastructure paid for and it’s really just an additional growth there. But I think it’s more so the profit margins that sit in a pasture-fed system in New Zealand allow for that investment to try and get that little bit of extra milk as well.
So, I wouldn’t say either or are better placed. It’s just that we do have a lot of low-hanging fruit in Oceania, if you like, to start moving into that kind of system.
Ted Jacoby III: That makes sense. That makes sense.
Mike Brown (2): One thing I think about New Zealand and why the system is the way it has been historically has been your cost of concentrates or grains hasn’t always been as competitive.
You lead world price in a lot of cases, and your location makes you very competitive. Your dairymen have more room to pay some of those higher costs for that marginal production. So my question is the strong world price has a fair amount to do, obviously , with everybody’s growth, but in your case when you look at that difference in marginal cost versus that pasture based cost, are you more sensitive to that marginal change in price than maybe some other markets just simply because your feed costs are higher?
Scott Briggs: Let’s have a look at world milk prices at the moment. The U.S. at $17 a counterweight, if you like, $16.50, $17 a counterweight.
That’s low on your range. On the New Zealand numbers, that’s coming out at a $9.50 dollars per kilo in New Zealand dollars, which is a historically pretty high milk price.
So, they do have that ability to just bring in PKE exports. One of the major sources of additional feed or additional milk growth in New Zealand is this palm kernel expeller which comes off of the palm kernel crushing. It’s kinda like soybean meal, if you like that they bring in from Indonesia and other palm kernel or palm crushing countries. Fonterra had placed limits on that for a long period of time because it was affecting the fat composition of the milk.
Once they removed those limits, PKE imports went up 20% or 30% almost in one or two years. The last two seasons, New Zealand milk growth has been about 4% or 5% this year, and probably 2% or 3% the year before, so 6 or 7%.
Nearly a third to a half of that has come from the additional energy that’s coming in the PKE. So it’s having a huge marginal impact on their growth, and it’s coming at a pretty low cost ’cause it’s a low-cost feed source. So, I think, Mike, going back to your question, they have that ability to grow because there’s such a lot of low-hanging fruit between that grass-fed cost of production, which is already paying for their farm, and the milk price that they’re getting paid, which is actually a marginal cost of production out of the U.S.
Mike Brown (2): What kind of world fat price might change their incentive on PKE? We’re seeing a little bit of that here because it’s very expensive here, and people look at their marginal return.
It isn’t, of course, near what it was when fat was $2.50. Do you think, depending where that world market settles, will that change the incentive to use PKE? ‘Cause in our case, it’s fat production is the real gain that you get compared to other alternative rations we feed.
Scott Briggs: I think it’s seen more as just a bulk source of feed and source of energy- to get the cow up early in the season, Mike, and peak it as high as possible, and then to keep going on the shoulder. It’s a milk solids game rather than a tweak the fat percentage game.
At $9.50 they’ll be feeding it.
Scott Briggs: $9.50 a kilo of milk solids they’ll be feeding it.
Mike Brown (2): Oh, yes. Yeah. I would be feeding it here, too. Yeah. At that price for sure. Yeah.
Ted Jacoby III: My thoughts immediately go to Europe.
The U.S. is well-positioned for growth. New Zealand is building off a very profitable base, which insulates them and puts them in a very good position of at least maintaining their position in the global market. Where does that put Europe?
Scott Briggs: Europe is an interesting situation where realistically I think that they’re gonna struggle for the main drivers of additional milk production. They seem to be struggling to add any additional land at a reasonable cost, whether it be to the feed base or to the dairy base. That’s obviously being driven by environmental policy, which is very different in Europe than it is say in the U.S. or even Latin America. So I think that they’re gonna struggle at that policy level to be able to keep driving forward.
The other thing that does sit within Europe is that we’re only 10 years removed from quota coming off, and so we’re still in that process of losing milk production where we should in the more marginal areas, or from the smaller farms, or from the more marginal land, and trying to drive it into places like Germany or the Netherlands.
And so whenever you’ve got a core base of pretty uneconomic sticky milk, it takes a fairly heavy price response to drive change in those farms. So down at the lowish milk prices that we’ve got globally at the moment and I say, I’m happy to debate that point.
I think we’re at pretty low milk prices on the range since the end of COVID, particularly with the low feed prices. Where we are at the bottom of the price range, you’re gonna still struggle to get some of these European guys out given the subsidies that they’ve got.
But that also means you’re not driving efficiency back into the system. So it feels to me like Europe’s gonna really struggle to meet the global needs and be a quick mover like the States has been. Probably the call-out on that one to me would be Russia. They’ve got probably huge settings if they wanted Russia and the Stans to really grow into dairy production.
But it’s not gonna be something that’s being done for the rest of the world. I think it’s gonna be getting done for their part of the world and for China.
Ted Jacoby III: Speaking of Eastern Europe, do you think Poland still has a lot of room to grow as well?
Scott Briggs: I wouldn’t know the specific micro settings of Poland.
It does seem like they are growing pretty well. If you look at the investments that are going into some of the Stans, eventually Ukraine and some of the other parts of the former Eastern Bloc, if you like, it does seem like there’s a lot of investment in Belarus still.
It does seem like there’s a lot of investment going in there to help feed parts of the world that longer-term probably aren’t gonna be getting fed by the U.S.
Ted Jacoby III: That makes sense to me. With all these different factors, what about China?
China’s in a pretty interesting spot from a milk production standpoint. They really increased their milk production three or four years ago, and then more or less stabilized it. Where is their cost of production and where does China go from here?
Scott Briggs: Probably the first point to make is that we’ve all learned not to bet against China on dairy production in the last four or five years on milk production in particular.
That’s been an incredible rise. And I think the second thing is that lesson to me is then, don’t bet against them and what they might be able to do with the quality of the product, and the investments that they’re making in manufacturing capacity now. There’s a huge push from China to value add, particularly on the protein side, and to then try and drive that down in sales into Southeast Asia and other parts of the world.
They’ve obviously got a huge domestic market, but when it comes to starting to grow into things like processed cheese or fat exports or even micellar casein exports and MPC exports, that’s where I think that their next push is gonna be, is trying to move out anything that they don’t need domestically.
So it’s not just gonna be bulk whole milk powder, which has been the story of the last two or three years. The structural issue that they’ve got is that their population versus their arable land is just huge. That’s a long-term limiter, if you like, for how much you can push into exports.
Ultimately, as their productivity grows and their incomes grow, they’ll be consuming more dairy themselves. The steps that we’ve seen the last four or five years were really about shoring up domestic milk capability so that they weren’t a victim of world markets, and then now they’re trying to value add that milk.
They’ve learned the lesson that you don’t grow milk but not grow factories, and they’ve learned the lesson that you don’t grow demand without growing milk. The policy now is, let’s do step changes as productivity rises to drive income rises.
I think that they’re gonna be putting a push on certain functional products into Asia But I don’t think that they’re necessarily in a place to be the driver of global milk production because ultimately their cost of production, going back to where you started, Ted, is higher, and it’s structurally higher because of the fact that they just don’t have enough arable land for the population that they’ve got.
Ted Jacoby III: But with China doing that and really trying to expand into value add and even trying to export, I gotta believe that’s causing Fonterra and the other New Zealand exporters to really shift their export strategy. What’s happening there?
Scott Briggs: When you look at Fonterra, their stated strategy is to basically be a skim protein and fat company.
They have recognized that the days of whole milk powder are limited. China went through a period where they went from 500,000 tons of imports pre-COVID to 800,000, and now they’re back down to 500,000 again.
They’ve really gone through that boom and during that period, Fonterra’s basically said, “We need to move out of whole milk powder and move back into being a skim and fat company.” And when I say a skim and fat company, a skim protein and fat company. And so, we have seen them push 50 to 70,000 tons more skim into Southeast Asia.
But what they’re now starting to do is to value add that skim, similar to what the U.S. is doing: putting on more ultrafiltration in front of dryers, ’cause that’s the highest marginal investment that you can do. Starting to do more MPCs, starting to do more value add on the fat side, as well.
There’s been some huge investments in UHT cream which are gonna be going ahead or have already gone ahead and are being launched for this year, which draws fat away from butter and AMF. Overall, their stated strategy is to be a nutrition and food service company.
Nutrition: protein-heavy products. Food service: fat-heavy products. And so they’re moving away from that whole milk powder. I think that the next stage for them is to try and drive those two sorts of products into Southeast Asia. Because China itself is already quite a big market for those sorts of products and is probably screaming out for, “How do we not use WPC and WPI?”
‘Cause that’s the highest priced protein in the world right now. So how do we move away from that? I think they’re also trying to help Southeast Asia grow protein as a category.
Ted Jacoby III: But based on what you said of China’s strategy, it almost sounds like it means China and New Zealand are going head-to-head in that market in Southeast Asia.
Scott Briggs: Yeah. Yeah. I think- And- And look, that’s a 5 to 10-year view. We’re already seeing traditional Fonterra markets or New Zealand markets, Open Country Dairy’s obviously nearly 20% of the market down there now, as well, and are making their own steps towards value-adding fat.
So that’s always one to keep in mind. We’re certainly seeing a competition of powder flows and functional product flows from China, including fat, laminated fat, pastry butter, those sorts of things, coming into Southeast Asian markets that were traditionally New Zealand-dominated markets.
Diego Carvallo: Going back to China’s milk production, a lot of rumors about a disease in the northwest of China hand, foot, and mouth. Very little information. We have several customers that have asked about it. Without going down the rabbit hole, is there any update in that regards?
Scott Briggs: Super important if it were to be a big story.
I think that the likelihood of it being a massive story is low at the moment from what I’ve seen at least. The key thing to watch for me in China is always the spot milk price. They’ve got a fantastic not that it’s particularly visible, but they do have a huge trade of liquid milk market between different zones and between companies in specific zones.
It’s a little bit like your plus/minus to the Class III. So that spot milk price to me is always the one which tells you: are they having any problems? And it does seem to me like the containment strategy was quite effective early on. Lock down the zones, stop the movement of the cattle. So yeah, it doesn’t look like it, but, it’s a bit of a black box.
Diego Carvallo: So, we don’t expect a long-term impact to their production as of right now?
Scott Briggs: Not at this stage, but that could change tomorrow.
Ted Jacoby III: Everybody, we will be right back after these messages.
Diego Carvallo: I’m Diego Carballo with T.C. Jacoby & Co.. T.C. Jacoby & Co. specializes in international dairy markets. For new customers that haven’t done business with Jacoby, I would tell them that we can provide them with many of the powders, dairy products that they consume, not only with the physical product, but we can also help them mitigate their risk.
We know dairy. We know the main players. We know the main providers for the whole value chain. We are one of the strongest players in the U.S. market because we have contact all the way from the farmer moving the liquid milk all the way to the end users that buy the end products. I am Diego Carballo with T.C. Jacoby & Co., and we bring dairy to the world.
Ted Jacoby III: Josh, I’m gonna put you on the spot. Is the U.S. gonna continue to increase our exports? And if so, who do we increase those exports at the expense of? How is that gonna play out?
Josh White: Yes. We’re going to absolutely continue to increase our exports. The most obvious area is where there’s gonna be a need, and that’s fat, at the moment. It’s pretty well-noted that we’ve invested heavily in cheese production, boy, if those new cheese process facilities are running at the moment, they’re happy to have a co-product in whey proteins.
Things are looking pretty good at the moment. As a result of that, we’re assuming that anybody who can produce cheese or process cheese is trying to process just as much as they possibly can. As a result of that, it seems pretty eminent that the U.S. will continue to have available cheese for the global consumer.
Now we’ll take a look at the protein side. One of the expected results of this protein movement in the U.S., and now again, I wanna clarify this movement because I think there’s a lot of chatter about GLP-1 being the main driver, and I would almost view that as just a catalyst and a reason why the U.S. market might be leading in protein consumption.
‘Cause if you look around the world, this is a health and wellness trend that is not exclusive to the United States, not exclusive to Europe. It’s happening everywhere. We receive inquiries from all over the world, including import regions, for protein. Given the limitation on whey protein availability, one would assume that we’re gonna see quite a migration to milk proteins, and Scott did a great job of alluding to that earlier.
We’re finding different ways of concentrating protein and delivering it to the consumer. The result of that, fat’s going to come along with it. I’ve listened to Gus, Mike and the team talk fairly openly about the incredible improvements in components over the past several years from the U.S. dairymen.
Scott alluded to component growth in other parts of the world as well. We’re going to have surplus fat, and there’s going to be extra fat beyond what the U.S. consumer can take in, and as a result of that, we’re going to be hungry to capture market share in the global market. Now, you ask, “At whose expense?”
And that’s a loaded question in some ways because I think there’s two things going on. I also think fat consumption globally is increasing, maybe not at the rate protein is and maybe not as popular right now, but if you look, ever since the early 2000s when we made this paradigm shift in the U.S. to moving away from the old food pyramid model and moving into this clean label, healthy consumable products, fat no longer was the enemy, and it seems like ever since that happened, the world has also agreed, and we’ve continued to see more clean label dairy fat being consumed per capita globally.
So, two things will happen. One is the U.S., we’re in position to grow our milk production more quickly than anywhere else in the world. We have the infrastructure, currently, we have the economics to do that, and we might outpace that fat consumption growth globally. Which means then, yes, we will have to capture some market share.
And from who? It, it’s either going to be Europe or Oceania, and I think that’s a seasonal thing. I don’t know that I would point to either single market as being the loser in that, other than that the dairy support and economic situation and the outlook for dairy growth in Europe seems to have more headwinds than the rest of the world.
One would assume that they’re a bit more vulnerable, right now, to the U.S. capturing market share.
Ted Jacoby III: Joe, what about fat?
Joe Maixner: Josh summed it up pretty clearly. We’re going to have to continue to be a net exporter of fat. We’re gonna continue to add fat into our system with all of these high protein demand and these components that just continue to creep higher and higher.
We’re not going to consume everything that we can supply. We will have to be a net exporter of fat moving forward until either the supply structurally shifts or we find a different way to utilize it.
I agree with Josh and Scott that it’s going to be seasonal dependent on whose expense it comes at because I think that our fat market, our butter market specifically, is going the direction that cheese has gone over the past 15 years, where it becomes almost a cyclical market.
We’ll be really competitive, we’ll get a lot of exports on the books, we’ll clean up our inventories, and then our pricing will spike, we will not be competitive on exports for a while, which will develop this surplus of domestic inventory and force us to depress pricing again and go back into the export markets.
Josh White: We have a U.S. bias obviously, as we’re looking at the world. The one limitation to U.S. capturing fat market share is the reputation of U.S. fat being quite a bit different. Our commodity butter is an 80% salted butter.
Our packaging is different. The visual appearance of our product is different. The flavor profile of our product is a bit different. Up until now, the opportunity for us to capture market share has happened largely in the processing sector as an ingredient to make something else. As of late, we’re starting to realize a little bit more of a win in, say, food service applications in developing markets and other things.
From your perspective, how close is the U.S. to penetrating into the food service or retail business in import regions for butterfat?
Scott Briggs: Yeah. It’s a good question. I think there’s two parts to that answer. The first is that you break down trade barriers slowly, but it happens. It’s been happening since the start of trade, right?
You know, I do think that there’s the ability to continue educating the consumer to get them comfortable with the product, the appearance of the product. I think I said that to Joe once: U.S. butter, it’s not terrible.
It’s a great tagline. But I’m not a marketing guy. It will continue to gain acceptance, I think, Josh. I think the second thing to recognize is that with Fonterra, so New Zealand, trying to put so much fat into food service applications, I think for the point of educating, as you say, what does that mean in Asia and China?
It’s not necessarily just butter. UHT cream is just this massive category which keeps on growing in Asia. Asia’s not this singular thing. Like they’re all sub-markets. But as a generalization, bakery is huge through a lot of Southeast Asia China itself.
If you travel there, it’s cakes, it’s pastries, it’s a hell of a lot of really nice product. It’s seen as a luxury good if you like and through the supermarkets and convenience stores and everything like that. That’s a huge sector which needs a more functional application.
There’s a lot of growth in there. That’s actually leaving behind ingredient markets for U.S. fat, whether that be in Australia or whether that be into Southeast Asia or the Middle East. So that is actually to me, probably the lowest hanging fruit, and it’s what you’ve already seen.
So it’s not like you need to necessarily change the spec immediately to go for these applications. It can be just as easily going for what’s been left behind by New Zealand. Just one point that I’d make about whose market share is the U.S. gonna take on certain products?
The European milk growth in late last year really does mask the fact that we probably still need U.S. butterfat exports to balance the world market. If you were to take the 100,000 excess tons that Europe made in the second half of last year out of the market, say that was unsustainable milk growth for a period of time, once we eat through that stock, we’ve taken a lot of the U.S. growth, if you like.
We’ve absorbed a lot of that growth in what you’ve made, and we needed it. So I do think that we’re going through a process of still eating through those European stocks overall, and that glut that we had, which was driven by two years of fantastically high milk prices.
But once we get through that, the global consumer is buying $5,000 butter, and they’re buying $3,000 skim. And that is a price level that’s comfortable in a lot of the world. Mideast is obviously going through a few lumps right now, so we may have some problems on demand in the next six months.
But once we get through that and, hopefully the conflict there is over and they return to some kind of growth, we do get to a position where we probably need U.S. fat in the world market.
Mike, you made the comment about how well the U.S. farmer is now not feeding for fat, and it does seem like some of that fat component growth at least is slowing.
Do you see responsiveness to fat prices significantly, and how can that change the U.S. fat balance of being a reliable or necessary exporter?
Mike Brown (2): As far as producer decisions, I’ve had some conversations, particularly with cheese plants, who are seeing some changes and talking with their producers. And some are making some adjustment to ration changing sources, and what those sources are finding is what we’re seeing in the milk supply, protein remains relatively strong and still grows.
Fat has slowed down a bit, and most of it is PKE. That seems to be the change. Talking with producers, I had a good conversation, actually, last fall with a very high producing Jersey herd who said that if fat gets below about $1.70, it doesn’t really make sense for him to feed PKE anymore because he isn’t getting enough return from it.
I think there’s probably some doing that. Is it broad? I think when the U.S. cows are milking so well, they’re reluctant to make a lot of ration changes that might slow things down. But we’re seeing somewhat on the margin. Will it solve the problem? No, because it’s genetics.
It’s the genomics, our selection for fat. There’s so much variability in fat genetics within cattle, particularly Holsteins, that they’ve been able to make huge progress, and of course that’s permanent. So I expect that fat will continue to stay high. So, will we see some moderate fluctuations from time to time?
Sure. That market will, I think, have some effect, particularly since they’ve gotten so high. Will our trend change? No. We’ll continue to improve in fat and in protein with time just because genetic selection in the U.S., particularly with sexed semen and genomics, has just gotten so intense that I don’t see that changing.
The rate of gain will slow because the base population is higher versus the sires that are being used, but that will continue. We may slow down. We’re not gonna turn around and go the other way.
Ted Jacoby III: Awesome. Thanks, Mike.
Jacob Menge: I was gonna stir the pot a bit and almost take the other side by saying I have a degree in economics, so I succumb to liking to pretend that free trade is how everything works in the world.
And it doesn’t. And I think we’re pretty clearly going down this path of almost a bifurcated world of trade relationships. And I really think it would be a mistake to ignore that moving forward, especially with Russia potentially being able to supply China in the future.
We’re almost taking for granted that everyone is gonna buy from the most efficient producer in the world, and we’re really going into this kind of tumultuous geopolitical landscape that it feels like we’re probably ignoring.
I don’t think that changes the fact that the U.S. is still gonna have to export. We’re producing more than we’re gonna consume. We’re not gonna let the product rot. We’re probably not gonna shut down all these nice facilities we just built. But it does make me question what price we are going to be getting when we go to export the products.
What happens to the basis on those export sales? There’s a big geopolitical issue when it comes to a lot of the analysis we’ve just been doing.
Scott Briggs: How much of the cake is baked? How much growth are we guaranteed to see on U.S. milk supply in the next two to three years, and cheese supply, just as a function of these investments that have already been made?
How much of the world trade has already bifurcated? China’s getting it from New Zealand.
Okay, that could break. I could see that breaking. I could see the Middle East possibly breaking, like you’re already seeing Iran getting certain product from Belarus or you already seen China get part of it. So there could be massive breakages in there, you’re right. The challenge is if we were to stop trading between Russia, the ‘Stans, and China, if that became one zone and we all became the other zone, like the two biggest linkages are the Middle East and New Zealand, and you probably do flood the market if you were to stop that.
Who would get hurt in that scenario? It’s probably Europe. It’s Gonna be a race to the bottom to try and kill some of the highest cost milk production.
Yeah, how much of the cake is baked?
Ted Jacoby III: I would say it is pretty baked. But I think of it more in terms of between the current trends we’re seeing and how sticky we suspect they are from a breeding-to-beef standpoint, specifically cattle supply, beef cattle supply, and being able to continue to supply the beef market with beef, I think we’re gonna continue to see some really good returns to dairy farmers breeding to beef, which means they are going to resist and be pretty resistant even when the milk price is low to reducing the number of cows in the U.S.
That’s number one. That puts in a really hard floor. In addition to that, those dairy farmers, especially the really big ones, are making really good money when you add the beef income on top of the milk income, and they’re looking to continue to expand as a result. So, in terms of the capacity that’s already added, they’re gonna fill it up.
In terms of the additional capacity, which, let’s just put it this way: Over the last two to three years, we’ve had a lot of new capacity. Over the next couple of years, we will continue to have additional capacity added, but at a lower rate than what we just saw, but it’s all gonna get filled up.
I don’t think we’re gonna have a problem over the next three to five years filling the capacity that we build because I think that the income situation for the dairy farmer in the U.S., it’s just in a really good spot. Even if you take, what’s our worst-case scenario from a milk revenue standpoint?
Whey protein prices collapse. We produce so much milk that butter prices stay low, nonfat prices stay low, cheese prices stay low. All that means is we’re just gonna be that much more competitive in the global market, and I think our overproduction is probably gonna hurt Europe more than it’s actually gonna hurt the U.S.
Josh White: I’ll just maybe add to it that, the most obvious way that the U.S. has invested is to add a lot of cheese processing capacity over the past few years, massive investments. People are well aware of it.
But the aggregate of all of the incremental expansions and all of that has been really significant as well. It feels almost imminent right now that we were already investing in dairy growth before the beef on farm income reached a level that it’s at today, and it just doesn’t feel like that’s going to change any time in the near future.
And as a result of that, it only maintains or accelerates that desire to make more milk. We were having conversations 24 months ago about how would we have the heifers to grow the herd? How would we do this? We found a way to grow the herd.
The component growth outperformed expectations, and it’s only been more consistently profitable because the revenue stream’s been spread across more things.
So we’re gonna have milk, and if we’re gonna have milk, we’re going to figure out a way to process that milk. And so far, there must have been some really good foresight to do that and build all of this cheese processing capacity to absorb it up till now, and we’ve got a little runway left to continue to fill them up.
But there’s conversations at every major place about how do we extend our put-through and extend our yield by shipping more condensed skim, by processing more UF milk products, by… I can go on and on. I don’t know if it’s exactly what you were asking, but are we done in investing in our ability to process more milk?
I don’t believe so. The next move had to have already been thought about and has to be under construction. We’re years out from the one after that. I think there’s plenty that are thinking about the next move.
Mike Brown (2): It’s kinda like the beef has created this amazing revenue stream for dairy producers in the U.S., and our use of sexed semen and beef selection has just improved that. Same with whey proteins and plant profitability.
With these very high whey protein isolate and whey protein concentrate prices, even at a 70-cent whey market, your margins on your whey proteins are very high, which gives those plants a little more room to grow. But I think the other part is: we’ve always talked about growth in cheese, the milk proteins are growing, too, and as whey protein prices get higher, manufacturers and product developers are figuring out ways to use lower-priced dairy protein alternatives, and that market’s gonna grow as well. How much milk do we have left to dry into whey?
How much milk are we gonna have left to dry into powder if those markets continue to grow? We don’t think they’re done yet. We think that growth is there. Will these prices stay where they are forever? Probably not, but the demand seems to be continuing to grow.
Part of it isn’t will we grow our plants, it’s also what will we be making in those plants? Are we gonna be making more focus on other protein products than just cheese?
Ted Jacoby III: I think one of the most ironic things about milk production in the U.S. right now is the fact that the biggest danger, the thing that would hurt the dairy farmer the most right now, is actually not milk cost.
What would happen if the beef price collapses to the point where breeding the beef is no longer profitable? We’re going to double the amount of dairy heifers we start producing. You know how that plays out?
That plays out by, right now the number of lactations out of a cow has gone from two to three to four, which is decreasing the rate of increase of the components in the milk because you’re turning over a smaller percentage of your herd every year. All you’re gonna do is speed that up. So maybe our milk production plateaus or even drops a little bit, but the components in the milk increase will speed up as a result.
You’ve got the U.S. dairy industry now in a position where even the worst-case scenario continues to be a threat for Europe or the rest of the world from a milk supply standpoint.
Mike Brown (2): We look at the percentage of milk in the U.S. that is now produced by these extremely efficient, very well-managed, very well-leveraged herds, and so our susceptibility is less.
It’s kinda like we’re going through a heat wave right now, Scott, and everybody says, “What’s that gonna do to milk?” A whole lot less than it used to because of the controlled environments of our modern barns. We’ve done a lot and kinda like I think in a lot of industries, we’ve had some good profitability, people have made investments for the long term.
And when you make big investments for the long term, you don’t usually turn around. You’re committed to being in the business. I think the biggest thing for us, in my mind, is for years we’ve been looking at the whey and dry milk markets, exports are a huge part of those sales.
Cheese is growing, and we’ve reached a point with cheese where those export sales are becoming more and more important, and so how do we sustain them over time? What do we need to do? I think a good example, Joe’s been working a lot with our opportunities in butter over the last few years and working with folks that we work with and what do I need to make to take best advantage of those export markets?
We’ll continue to do that as well. We’re just thinking a lot more world demand than just, “I need to make a 40-pound block of cheddar and who will buy it?” We’re trying to think a little harder than that now.
Scott Briggs: Mike, you touched on if we’d had the milk production growth that we’ve had in the last two years 10 years ago, we would’ve wiped out certain pieces of milk production around the world.
The market would not have absorbed that level of additional product. Now, we certainly had a period in October, November, December last year, where things got uneconomic in certain part of the world, and we didn’t last. Because ultimately, the demand shone through and, having listened to the podcast, protein demand and that protein story is a huge part of that in the States.
That, to me, is a trend that’s really only beginning around a lot of the other parts of the world. It can go underestimated from your side of the world. You guys are the vanguard in that. You’re the leaders in it. You’ve got the category. China’s got a great category in this area and is making some huge investments in it.
But, we’ve just seen here in Australia and in Southeast Asia some massive investments from European companies into cottage cheese, into ready-to-drink categories with the principal idea of exporting them to Asia. And, that growth model into developing markets is always put a high price product in there that’s branded from a developed market, and then grow the category with the local champion. You get an imported product, it looks sexy and it looks great, and it’s like a luxury product, and then you grow the category by producing a lower price point product to try and then get the local population really going for it.
And so that’s just started. The other thing that’s really hot in different parts of Asia is, funnily enough, processed cheese for food service. It’s a really quickly growing category. It’s a category that gets a lot of interest. We’ve spent a lot of time on the point of does the U.S. have a competitive advantage for supply, in this kind of changing world.
I think one of the biggest pieces of competitive advantage that the States has is its ability to grow an export pathway. It’s a mindset; it’s a trade infrastructure, as well, with government relations and everything like that allows you to grow into world markets in a way that probably a lot of other places don’t have.
If we’ve got a growing demand, and I made this point before, we might see a few lumps here, mainly because of the Middle East, right?
The Middle East looks a little bit overbought, looks a little bit quiet. Southeast Asia’s having a few little hiccups with changes in Indonesia and some of their currency devaluation, like these sort of short-term issues. But longer term, it’s very comfortable for a Southeast Asian consumer buying $2,800 to $3,200 skim and $5,000 butter.
These are price points that work now, which never worked before, that’s the growth price point now. I do think that we’re going to have a situation where the world market is gonna be the next engine for some of the growth in protein demand and fat demand as well.
Tristan Suellentrop: Scott, being based in Australia, I’d be interested to hear your perspective on the potential super El Niño that was confirmed this week. How does that factor into your outlook for dairy production in Oceania over the next year or two?
And how concerned should producers in Australia and New Zealand be if it develops as forecasted?
Scott Briggs: So it’s a very detailed topic. The El Niño indicator that everybody looks at is the Southern Oscillation Index, which is screaming El Niño at the moment. The reality is that what impacts Australia and New Zealand is not just the El Niño.
It can be a major impact, but we’ve also had years where it has had no impact, and probably even at a similar level of El Niño indicator. And the reason for that is the El Niño obviously talks about what’s happening out in between South America and Asia, so that pressure, but our weather system, particularly in our dairy regions, is just as impacted by how much moisture is exiting Antarctica and moving north, into the southern parts of Australia, which are our heavy dairy regions, and also into New Zealand.
The other weather system that impacts our dairy production during spring and our moisture levels is how much tropical cyclone activity is actually exiting the Pacific Islands and moving down into the North Island of New Zealand, which really doesn’t have a lot to do with El Niño either.
The key point is that, right now El Niño, yeah, it’s a real phenomenon, but it’s not the only thing that’s gonna impact Oceania. when you look back at the history, which we have, some years it’s a really important thing, and other years you can have a fantastic spring in what seems to be an El Niño year. The other point that I’d make is that we have fantastic moisture right now. We’re getting huge rainfalls through Australia particularly, but also in New Zealand, which are really recharging things over winter. Economics would also mean that we’ve all got a fair bit of silage buffered away from the last 12 months of good weather.
So I don’t think, at this stage, we’re seeing anything that’s like a huge impact on Oceanic dairy, but it’s very early. The thing that we’re all gonna need to watch out for is how much does it rain, particularly in New Zealand in December. New Zealand in December, January, that’s really when we have to start looking at what might happen.
Ted Jacoby III: Cool. All right. Scott, this was a fantastic discussion. Thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate your insight and your expertise in what’s going on the other side of the pond. Thank you.
Thank you. Lockhart, thank you very much. Cheers, guys.
Next time on The Milk Check.
Will Loux: The U.S. exports as we go forward here over the next few years is at a crossroad. Do we swing back to balancing to milk fat, which would mean we’re probably short of protein? Or do we start balancing to protein, which means we’re gonna need to find homes for a heck of a lot more cheese and butter.
Ted Jacoby III: Join us and our special guest, Will Loux from the U.S. Dairy Export Council as we discuss the future of U.S. dairy exports.
The best part of my job is working directly with cheesemakers and helping their businesses run better because they make wonderful, great products. Anything we can do to make them more successful not only helps them, but helps Jacoby. We look at how milk flows through their plant, what their real cost of products are, so when they’re making marketing decisions, making new investments, particularly on whey processing, they have a benchmark to use to determine what opportunities they have and what the returns would be.
Whey has become so valuable with these high-protein markets. There’s added value that they can get by just condensing it, and maybe moving further down the supply chain in the longer term, making products themselves. My role is to help them cost that so they have a better understanding of what the
Longer term, we expect the whey protein market to remain very valuable. For one part of the supply chain to be successful, everyone has to be, and part of my role is trying to help people be as competitive as they can possibly be. My superpower is practical application of data and analysis. I believe firmly that Jacoby’s success is because we help our suppliers and our buyers be successful.
I’m Mike Brown, and I love working for T.C. Jacoby & Co. because I get to help people make their businesses more successful.
