I popped on today to plan, prep, and cook for my gal pal's dinner party. Of course, I wasn't prepared, and my mini chopper would not work, but…

We prepped some great dishes for my ladies’ dinner party.

The Menu

* Bootleggers - the Minnesota Cocktail

* Miso Glazed Salmon (exclusive Substack recipe here)

* Roasted Potatoes with a garlic scape, basil pesto drizzle on a bed of yogurt cream (1/3 cup cottage cheese - 1/3 cup whole fat Greek yogurt- 1/4 cup chopped pickles - 1/4 cup feta cheese, 3 Tbsp Feta brine, one teaspoon kosher salt, blended until smooth)

* Roasted Pepper and white bean salad with basil and balsamic (exclusive Substack recipe here)

* Green salad with hard-boiled eggs and lemon vinaigrette

* Zukes and Squash gratin (Recipe from True North Cabin Cookbook Vol. 1)

* Plum Fruit Buckle

Miso Glazed Salmon

Ingredients:

* 8 (4-6-ounce) skin-on salmon fillets, about 1-inch thick

* 2 teaspoons Kosher salt

* Freshly ground black pepper

* 3 Tbsp honey

* 1/4 cup Hikari minute miso

* 3 Tbsp rice wine vinegar

* 3 teaspoons soy sauce

* 1 garlic clove, grated on a microplane

* 1 teaspoon ground ginger

Instructions:

Preheat oven to Broil

In a small bowl, whisk together the salt, pepper, honey, miso, vinegar, soy, garlic, and ginger.

Arrange the salmon skin side down on a sheet pan.

Brush the mixture over the salmon. Let marinate for 20 minutes while the oven comes to temperature.

Broil until the salmon is opaque and cooked through and the glaze is toasted, about 6 minutes. Internal temperature should be about 135-140

Roasted Pepper and White Bean Salad with Basil and Balsamic

Ingredients:

4 peppers

2 cans of cannellini beans, drained

1/3 cup Basil leaves torn into pieces

1/3 cup olive oil

3 Tbsp Balsamic vinegar

2 Tbsp lemon juice

2 teaspoons lemon zest

2 teaspoons salt

1 teaspoon cracked black pepper

Instructions:

Roast 4 peppers -Heat the oven to 425 degrees. Place 4 whole bell peppers (any color) on a sheet pan, drizzle with olive oil, and roast for 35 to 40 minutes, rotating halfway through, until the peppers are blackened and collapsed. Remove the peppers from the oven and let them cool.

Carefully peel away the skins and discard the core and seeds. Pull into 1/4 inch strips

Drain beans and add to peppers in a large bowl

Tear Basil and add to bowl

Mix the vinaigrette and add to the beans

Let sit for 30 minutes at room temperature, marinating before serving

Variations to consider:

* Adding feta or small mozzarella balls

* Subbing oregano for Basil leaves

Here is how the dishes came out

These were the flowers I added from my Home Garden.

Thank you to everyone who tuned in to my live video! I will plan for more live videos if you enjoyed it.

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Besides having a new baby, two restaurants and two cookbooks @chefsuzannevizethann made time to chat with me on the podcast about her beautiful brunch cookbook.

Stephanie Hansen:

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Dishing with Stephanie's Dish podcast. We are here today with Chef Suzanne Vizethann

Chef Suzanne has written a book called Brunch Season, and the subtitle is A Year of Delicious Mornings from the Buttermilk Kitchen.

And I love a book that takes, like, a single subject but really, like, elaborates on it, because I think when you think of brunch dishes, you have, like, you know, the top five in your mind, and you really have done a comprehensive guide here of how to explore brunch from not just like, egg dishes, but all the way through seasonality. So for me, I love books that either give you seasonal guidance because, like, I'm in summer right now, so how do I make a brunch for friends and what ingredients do I use? I love the way you organize this book. Did you. Is this your first book?

Suzanne Vizethann :

It's our second book. You know, the first book, “Welcome to Buttermilk Kitchen” Was more of a restaurant focused book, like 100 recipes from the restaurant. So this. This book is, you know, more of a standalone book. It's definitely recipes that you would find maybe as specials in the restaurant, but more as me as a chef, like, my voice as a chef.

“Welcome to Buttermilk Kitchen”

Stephanie Hansen:

So let's talk about that for just a second, because I think a friend of mine, Gavin Kaysen from the Twin Cities, he has, like, a book called At Home that's more of his, like, personality and style. And then he has the restaurant books, which are highly stylized. Obviously, it's a beautiful restaurant. What, after writing the restaurant book, made you want to kind of bring that home into your point of view?

Suzanne Vizethann :

I think that I love. Well, first of all, I love cooking, and I love sharing recipes with people. And, you know, like you said kind of, you brought up a really good point that chef recipes and restaurant recipes are just that. They're restaurant recipes, and they're sometimes really difficult to pare down to something small and make them accessible in the home kitchen. And so while we attempted to do that in the first book, I think that this was more of an opportunity to say, okay, hey, this is something that I might cook at home, or, you know, this is something that I like to cook in the summer or in the fall, and kind of really bringing that, like, you in my home with me.

Stephanie Hansen:

So can you tell me a little bit more about your restaurant?

Suzanne Vizethann :

Sure, yeah. So we actually have two the original restaurants in Atlanta, Georgia. It's been open almost 13 years. You know, brunch focused restaurant, open in the morning, you know, breakfast and lunch primarily. And then I actually just opened a restaurant up in Maine. I live here full time up on the mid coast in a town called Camden. And we have, we took over an 81 year old diner and opened another Buttermilk Kitchen here. And that one's called Buttermilk Kitchen at Mariners to honor the old name.

Suzanne Vizethann :

So, yeah, same, same style, you know, still a breast brunch driven restaurant, but a little bit more of a coastal flair since we are right on the water.

Stephanie Hansen:

And did you have a, did you have a move that precipitated opening in another location? Because I'm fascinated by how people can run restaurants. A one and then two, like in two different states. I just don't.

📸 Angie Mosier

Suzanne Vizethann and her restaurant Buttermilk Kitchen serve up some of the tastiest biscuits in the south.

Yields 12-14 biscuits

INGREDIENTS

4 Cups of all-purpose flour2 Tablespoons sugar2 Tablespoons baking powder2 ½ Teaspoons salt½ lb of cold unsalted butter, grated2 ½ Cups Banner Butter buttermilk

INSTRUCTIONS

* Mix together all dry ingredients (everything from flour through salt) into a mixing bowl.

* Add grated butter and mix into dry ingredients until crumbly and fully incorporated.

* Slowly add buttermilk until a sticky dough consistency is achieved (start with 2 cups and add a ½ cup more if needed).

* Scoop biscuits onto a pre-greased cookie sheet. Bake at 350 in a convection oven for 10 min (you might need to add time if using conventional oven).

* Rotate and continue to cook another 10-12 min until golden brown and ready to eat.

Suzanne Vizethann :

It's challenging, I'm not gonna lie to you. It is hard and. But I'm very, you know, blessed that I have great people working for me. And I think that because I waited so long to open the second one, I was able to really establish a great team under me that can handle a lot of the heavy lifting when I'm gone. And, you know, I come back, I try to travel back like six to eight times a year to check on them. But I am primarily in Maine and this restaurant's very new, so it requires more of my attention and time. But, you know, I really just am a firm believer that if you attract great people and you treat them well and you pay them well, that they'll be very loyal to you. And, you know, obviously everything's not perfect and.

Suzanne Vizethann :

But you've gotta relinquish some of that control and trust other great people around you.

Stephanie Hansen:

So it's changed a lot in the restaurant business. You've been at it for a while. Like, I just remember the days of like the chef, you know, yes, chef, and the really aggressive screaming and you have to be here 22 hours a day in order to be taken seriously. Like, that culture has changed. And I'm wondering for you if that feels like a refreshing change because you've been in it a long time.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Yeah, no, it definitely does. You know, started off in fine dining, kind of working late, late nights. And I always was really fond of breakfast and kind of breakfast service because not only did it allow you to have your nights free, which I always loved. I'm a morning person. I think too, what I learned very quickly is how important work, life, balance is. And it is, it is A really tough industry and a tough job. And as you know, the, the gen. The next generation coming up is just.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Is different and you talk to them differently and they have different needs and different wants. And I don't think it's a bad thing. I just think that you. I've learned that, you know, you just have to be accepting of those changes and learn something from that new generation.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, it's a very feeling generation. They're very oriented towards having feelings, wanting to share those feelings, wanting those feelings to be heard. Which is probably not surprising when you look at the rise of social media in the last 15 years, where that's what we do. We share over share and share again and share some more and really feel like. And I'm guilty of it too. Like, I really feel like everyone needs to know my feelings at all times. It's very interesting when you put that into a setting of a restaurant, because a restaurant is such a living, breathing microcosm of society or whatever is happening at the time.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Yes. And it's, you know, my first kitchen job, I worked silently. I made $7 an hour. You know, you never challenged the chef. You never challenged anyone around you. You know, you kept your head down and just kept going.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah.

Suzanne Vizethann :

So it's different for me, for sure. But, you know, I really embrace this younger generation and their needs and wants because I do think it is important to speak up and, you know, value your life and, and have a balance. So we. And we find that when we're flexible with people that it just creates a much better work environment for everybody. And it's challenging. I'm not going to say it isn't because it is challenging to be flexible in restaurants. But, you know, overall, I think that's a reason why we've been so successful is, you know, when. When we do have the daytime and we just try to treat our people really well.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. And I think it shows. When you talk about your book in particular, did you do all the photographs? Because they're stunning.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Oh, I wish. No, I'm not that talented. No. I have a photographer, Kelly Berry, who's. We've worked together a very long time and she shot the book. And then my good friend Tom Driver was the stylist and he's so great. Phenomenal. He's phenomenal.

Stephanie Hansen:

So great.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Great time doing it.

Stephanie Hansen:

What I want people to know about with this book, because honestly, if you have a person in your life that's into brunching, because there's sort of that brunch crew, this book should Be number one on your list. It's brunch season, and not only do I love the way it's organized in the pictures, but you have very approachable recipes, and also it feels very modern. So kale and mushroom frittata. Obviously, everybody's got a good cinnamon roll recipe, including you. Pumpkin glaze coffee cake. I have a cookbook that has literally, like 10 pumpkin recipes in it because I'm obsessed. Pecan and cranberry chicken salad. I was kind of surprised to find on a brunch menu, and I loved it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Also, you've got drinks in here. Summer squash omelette, corn pancakes, and the chia pudding that has been more popular in the last couple of years. What are some of favorite recipes in here or ones that you just think are not to be missed?

Suzanne Vizethann :

Oh, gosh. So in the summer, I love the. The squash blossoms. They're like a pancake battered stuff. Fried stuffed squash blossom. So hard. Yeah. And it's, you know, I know not everybody knows what a squash blossom is or has worked with one before, but I thought it was just a fun.

Suzanne Vizethann :

First of all, they're beautiful, and you can only get them in this, you know, small window. And they're, of course, you know, the flowers on the. On the squash. And most people will, you know, stuff them with ricotta or do some sort of, like, Italian preparation. And I was like, I'd be really fun to do some sort of, like, brunch twist on that. So we had a lot of fun doing that. And that was kind of like one of my ideas that actually worked right away. You know, a lot of times I'll have to edit a dish and do a dish many times over.

Suzanne Vizethann :

And that was like, the one dish I was like, on the first try, I was like, oh, this. This worked out exactly how I thought it was going to work out. So that was really fun. I'm trying to think. I really like the winter chapter. I love the chicken soup. You know, especially up here in Maine, we have a lot of cold days and nights.

Stephanie Hansen:

Your topography is very similar to Minnesota, where I'm from.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Okay. Yeah. It's was a big change moving from Georgia, but I. I do really love that chapter. Just being cozy. And there's a lot of. There's some chocolate crepes and again, like.

Stephanie Hansen:

That chicken soup, a meatloaf slider, felt.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Meatloaf sliders with persimmon chutney. So again, you know, I'm really. I'm A lot of the recipes, I'm trying to take a familiar dish, like A slider, but then teaching you how to work with a persimmon that most people probably haven't really worked with. So, again, it's just really about going to your local markets, supporting those farmers, and then finding a way to bring that into your home in an approachable way.

Stephanie Hansen:

Your cinnamon rolls looked really doable. A lot of times, I think when we see cinnamon rolls in books, you know, they look so puffy. And, like, I just. I know that when I make those at home, that's not how they turn out because they don't proof like that. So I felt like yours literally looked like something. Something I could make.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Oh, awesome.

Stephanie Hansen:

Good.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Well, you should try to make them for sure. You know, baking's like. I feel like baking is one of those things that you can actually really follow the recipe, you know, because in. In cooking, like, even day one culinary school, we're taught recipe is just a guideline. You know, interpret it the way you're going to interpret it. Use your common sense, use it as your baseline. But it's okay to, you know, something doesn't taste salty enough, add a little more salt or add this or add that. But with baking, baking, it's very scientific and exact.

Suzanne Vizethann :

So I feel like if you're somebody that likes to follow a recipe, you know, baking can be a lot of fun.

Stephanie Hansen:

Who are some of the people that inspire you or books that you find yourself going back to?

Suzanne Vizethann :

Oh, gosh. I love cookbooks, but there's so many choices. But I. I've always been a really big fan of Donna Hay. I don't know. Yeah, that is, of course, of Australia. And I always. Just when I was really young, when I worked in for a catering company, my boss had a bunch of her books.

Stephanie Hansen:

They're so gorgeous.

Suzanne Vizethann :

I would just get lost them.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah.

Suzanne Vizethann :

I love just her stylistic approach. You know, I love just. I not only do I love, like, preparing food, I love styling food. I love making a plate look beautiful. So I feel like she does that really well. I love anything Jamie Oliver, I think he has such a way, approachable way to cooking. Gosh, I'm, like, looking over at my cookbooks right now. You know, Thomas Keller books.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Any, like, any of the classics.

Stephanie Hansen:

Have you ever cooked anything from a Thomas Keller book, though?

Suzanne Vizethann :

Oh, definitely. I have more, like in culinary school, when I was, like, deeper into it. But yeah, again, I think as I get older, the less pretentious my cooking gets and just the more like, stripped down and relatable it gets, because now it's more just about like, oh, what do I want to cook for at home or on my day off or. I work in a very casual restaurant. So I feel like that's kind of what's made us successful is, you know, kind of marketable. Marketable dishes, you know. Yeah, they gotta taste good, but, like, they gotta grab the. The customer's attention as well.

Suzanne Vizethann :

So.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes, I think, too, when you look at cookbooks and how they're packaged, there's the aspirational books or the books you go to for inspiration, and then there's the, like, oh, I'm really gonna cook out of this one. And.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Oh, yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

Right away, yours was in my pile of. I'm going to call.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Thank you.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Cuddled eggs and shired eggs. And eggs and little ramekins are always, like, such good brunch dishes when you get them, but then, like, they're kind of hard to do when you're making brunch at home. Do you have any, like, tricks or what makes your coddled egg better than most?

Suzanne Vizethann :

I don't. I mean, I don't know if it's better than most, but it is.

Stephanie Hansen:

Looks amazing.

Suzanne Vizethann :

I think the big thing with it, with a coddled egg, is just trying to cook it correctly, you know, not over, like, deciding kind of how you like your egg. Do you like it runny or do you like it more set? And then for there, just keeping an eye on it, you know, making sure. I like mine a little runny.

Stephanie Hansen:

Me, too.

Suzanne Vizethann :

So.

Stephanie Hansen:

But.

Suzanne Vizethann :

And then, of course, like, you know, I'll tell. I tell chefs this all the time, especially home cooks. Take a look at your equipment that you're cooking on. You know, it's all dependent upon, like, how good your oven is and your stove top and your pan that you're cooking in and the ramekin you're putting the egg in. And then, obviously, most importantly is the ingredients. You know, like, it's. I love doing the coddled egg with the kale or, like, fresh spinach, and it's like, go. Go to your market and grab, you know, fresh spinach.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Like, just grab something beautiful, and that's going to make the dish shine.

Stephanie Hansen:

One recipe in here that I was really pleased to see, and I felt like I could make it, but it also felt a little bit Southern. Was the winter greens gumbo.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

Well, filet in there, which, of course, that's what makes it the gumbo. It looks so homey and so hearty.

Suzanne Vizethann :

It's so good. It's so good. And it's just a different twist on a regular Gumbo, because it's got a lot of the greens in it. So it just. Again, it's like one of those very comforting dishes, but it also feels very healthy at the same time. But, yeah, I love that dish.

Stephanie Hansen:

I'm gonna for sure make that one. It looked just amazing. When you were working on the book and thinking about what recipes to put in it, was it pretty easy to figure out what you wanted to add, or did you have to cut a lot?

Suzanne Vizethann :

It really depended on the chapter. You know, I think it was a lot of. Definitely some editing, you know, some trial and error. Some dishes. I just knew I'd. I'd had them before, you know, on the restaurant menu. So those were more of the easy ones. But, yeah, I mean, it takes a lot of.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Of editing and remaking and testing, and a lot of testing goes into the book. So from there, it really just depended on did I like the way it turned out, did other people trying it, like it? And then. But I really. The easy part about the book was leaning in on the seasons. You know, like, you take your inspiration from the market, what's growing, and it's like, okay, well, what can I do with tomatoes? Or what can I do with this? And then it was like, you give yourself a theme of brunch, and that makes it all. You know, I call it creative constraints. And that really helps you kind of narrow down what you're going to do, because the sky's the limit and there's so many dishes out there. Right.

Suzanne Vizethann :

So.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes. Is it hard for you to do a book tour? I mean, running two restaurants. And does having a restaurant kind of. Is that the sales mechanism for the book? I would imagine it might be, yeah.

Suzanne Vizethann :

It's, you know, and it's. It kind of my opinion kind of goes back and forth sometimes, like doing a true book tour, because they're great and they're helpful and they're obviously great exposure. But having two restaurants is such an important platform to sell the book because you're, you know, you got to think about it. In the Atlanta restaurant, we see over 2, 000 people a week. And then up here in Maine, obviously much smaller town, but we're in such a high tourist area, so our population triples in the summer.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yep.

Suzanne Vizethann :

All the foot traffic we're getting, it's really important that you have them in the stores, and then obviously from there, they can go on our website and have them shipped, and they can. There's other ordering platforms obviously they can get it from. But I would say having them in two restaurants is very important.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, it seems like it'd be such a great way to sell books. I was like, yeah, absolutely.

Suzanne Vizethann :

It is.

Stephanie Hansen:

I need to open a restaurant.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Yeah, don't do that.

Stephanie Hansen:

No, I probably won't. But can we talk a little bit about the drinks? Because with brunch, a lot of times there's drinks. Are there drinks or mocktails that you really feel partial to in the cookbook?

Suzanne Vizethann :

Oh, gosh. Trying to think. I love the. I gotta go look back at the drinks I put in there.

Stephanie Hansen:

I'll tell you some.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Yeah, tell me something.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, okay, hang on. I'm just gonna get into this chapter here because I always think, you know, I don't know. I like to drink when I go to brunch. You've got the blueberry jam lemonade, a chocolate.

Suzanne Vizethann :

That's a popular one.

Stephanie Hansen:

Blueberry jam. People don't realize that, like, jams. You know how you have all these jars of jams in your house? They make great drink components.

Suzanne Vizethann :

They really do. Yes. We actually have that on the. At the Atlanta. Well, actually, we have them on both. We're. We have, like, a signature blueberry basil jam that we make in house, and it goes with our biscuits and, like, all our toast and stuff like that. And it's just been wildly popular.

Suzanne Vizethann :

And one day I think a server was like, we should put this in the lemonade. And we also serve a version of it with vodka, as we call it the boozy blue.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, I like it.

Suzanne Vizethann :

But, yeah, it makes great. It's like, you know, it just would replace, like, the simple syrup or the sweetener or whatever you're going to use. So.

Stephanie Hansen:

So in this recipe, they've got a quarter cup of jam, plus 2 tablespoons, and then 4 cups of prepared lemonade and the basil, and then it's just shaken and. Yep, all set.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Really good in the summer. Oh, and I love the. The watermelon popsicle. Gosh, why am I blanking so hard here?

Stephanie Hansen:

I'll tell you, because I just saw a picture of it. It is watermelon ice pop mimosas with the basil.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Those were so fun to make. So I actually was inspired by that. I don't know if you've ever heard of Eleven Madison Park.

Stephanie Hansen:

Oh, yes. The granola is legendary. Daniel Humm. Come on. He's the best.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Yeah, I got to go. A couple years ago, and we had just the most phenomenal experience. And we sat at the bar, which was so fun. A girlfriend of mine, and we went in, and it just. This bartender was Amazing. And everything on the drink menu was seasonally inspired. And they just had all these cool things. And I just was really, really inspired.

Suzanne Vizethann :

And I was like, what can I do with a watermelon? And so I made these, like, really cool watermelon popsicles and just stuck it into glass of Prosecco. And it's awesome because, you know, it's great way to entertain.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Because then once the people grab their drinks and eventually it melts and then you have this awesome, you know, watermelon slush in your.

Stephanie Hansen:

Have you ever. Have you ever heard of something called a Johnny Pop where you are Johnny Pop?

Suzanne Vizethann :

I don't think so. I know a Johnny cake.

Stephanie Hansen:

Okay. So they're these natural popsicles that are. Were invented by a college kid in. In Minneapolis. And they're starting to get more nationwide exposure because they're at Costco and Target and some other places.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Okay.

Stephanie Hansen:

They have these really great flavors and they have like a watermelon flavor or a sugar free hibiscus. And they are great as a shortcut to put in a Prosecco, just like you did. It's got a fun presentation and it's really colorful, but tastes great.

Suzanne Vizethann :

That's awesome.

Stephanie Hansen:

Let's talk about your frying chicken. I'm working on a fried chicken episode, so I sort of have chicken on the brain.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Okay.

Stephanie Hansen:

You fry yours in a shallow fry of about an inch of oil. Is that correct?

Suzanne Vizethann :

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

And is that how, like, did you see your mom do it that way? Because there's different theories. Like, some people shallow fry, some people deep fry.

Suzanne Vizethann :

So growing up, you know, I didn't grow up in a traditional southern family, but my dad loved fried chicken. And he would shallow fry it. He would always do, like, the thighs and he would get one of those big, like electric griddles that you would plug in.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yep.

Suzanne Vizethann :

And do like, you know, an inch of the oil and dry that way. At the restaurant, we actually deep fry it like real low on like 275 degrees. But I like this recipe because I think it's more approachable for the home kitchen. You know, most people are not going to be deep frying or. Yeah, it makes a mess. And so I really, I like both ways, but I feel like in more of a home setting, it's better to use like a big cast iron and fried on both sides and then finish it in the oven. It gets really nice and crispy.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, same. Same theory. But I did like that you in your garnish, you have like, it looks like you fried up some basil maybe.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Yeah, I Love frying herbs.

Stephanie Hansen:

Okay. I never do that, but I should.

Suzanne Vizethann :

And people. It's such like an old. I hate to say outdated. It's like a very. I mean, I've seen Thomas Keller do it. Like, it's.

Stephanie Hansen:

It's kind of a 1980s thing.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Yeah. But I love it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, for sure.

Suzanne Vizethann :

To me, it never goes out of style. And most people don't know they can do it. Like, you could take, you know, beautiful sprigs of fresh basil and throw them into the fryer, and they just pop up and crisp, and they're like the. They look like stained glass.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, they're cool looking.

Suzanne Vizethann :

And you can do it with thyme and sage and all that stuff. And it's just kind of a really cool little entertaining little trick to kind of wow your guests with.

Stephanie Hansen:

We have a dry rubbed fried chicken wing spot here. Part of what they do is they fry the basil with the rub. And really, it just makes a nice presentation. Well, this has been really delightful to talk to you.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah. You have a great food scene up there.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, we do. Yeah, we do. And we just. We just had one of our restaurants win the James Beard award this year. So I'm really excited about that. Before we let you go, I'm going to ask you about Hollandaise, because as someone who has a brunch restaurant, you've probably made more hollandaise than you can even imagine making in the world of Hollandaise. Do you even like it?

Suzanne Vizethann :

A couple times. I do like it. You know, it's funny, I. I never order a Benedict on a menu ever.

Stephanie Hansen:

Me neither.

Suzanne Vizethann :

I just don't. And I like it, but I just. Yeah, I never order it.

Stephanie Hansen:

What is the secret to making the delicious sauce to the Hollandaise? Yeah.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Well, you. You want to make sure it doesn't break, so you need to incorporate your butter very slowly. A trick, a really good trick is to use a blender because you get that motor going, but, you know, you want to make sure that your yolks are in there first and you allow them to blend and incorporate before adding your melted butter.

Stephanie Hansen:

Good trick.

Suzanne Vizethann :

That's kind of it, you know, and then you just. It's just a little practice, a little confidence, and just slowly streaming in that butter. We have been playing around with the maple hollandaise at the restaurant right now where we're sweetening it with maple syrup.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yum.

Suzanne Vizethann :

And it's come out really well. And the base of it are little mini butterbilt pancakes. So that takes place at the bread.

Stephanie Hansen:

Cute.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, I love that. All right.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Fun. Way to throw different seasonings in it, too. You know, you don't have to just do the traditional holidays. You can do all sorts of things.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, I love it. And just mixing it up, that would be good, too, with chicken.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Yeah, definitely.

Stephanie Hansen:

Just like a chicken and waffle on holiday situation. All right, well, we are really delighted to speak with you. It's Chef Suzanne Visitan. I said it wrong that time, didn't I? Okay, okay, One more time. Chef Suzanne Visathan van. Wrong again, Chef Suzanne Veffan. And it is brunch season. A year of delicious mornings from the Buttermilk kitchen for photographed by Kelly Berry, which we talked about because the book is really beautiful.

Stephanie Hansen:

I will put a link to purchasing the book. I will also put a link to both your restaurants so if people are in Georgia or in Maine, they can check you out. And I'll put a link to your first book, too, so that everyone can find your recipes. Because, again, really beautiful book. I think home cooks are really going to like it. And if you're a bruncher, it's for you.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Thank you so much, Stephanie. I appreciate it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Thank you so much. I appreciate your time. It was fun to chat.

Suzanne Vizethann :

Yeah, you too. Have a great day.

Stephanie Hansen:

You too. Bye. Bye.

Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe

Stephanie Hansen:

Hello everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's Dish, the podcast where we talk to people that are obsessed with food and they come across their obsessions through cookbooks, podcasts, content writers, and today we're talking with Maggie Hoffman. And I was excited because I said I don't get to talk to fellow podcasters very often. Congratulations on your podcast. It is the Dinner Plan podcast.

Maggie is the former digital director of Epicurious. She also has many newsletters. So I'm excited to talk to you about that. The Dinner Plan plus What to Drink , plus The Vintage Table

Maggie Hoffman - You are my person.

Maggie Hoffman:

Maybe too many newsletters. We'll see.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, I'm sure it's a lot. So where should we jump in first? Let's just, let's talk about your newsletters because you already commented on my background. I have a lot of vintage pieces in the background. How did you start the Vintage Table or what was your first newsletter?

Maggie Hoffman:

Well, it's a little bit complicated, but I actually started with what to drink. In sort of a previous life, I was mostly a cocktail writer. I used to review bars for the San Francisco Chronicle. And I've written two books about cocktails that were published by Ten Speed.

The One-Bottle Cocktail: More than 80 Recipes with Fresh Ingredients and a Single Spirit

Batch Cocktails: Make-Ahead Pitcher Drinks for Every Occasion

And so that's like a whole side of my life. And I was running a drinks newsletter for Epicurious when I was there. And when I left, that was sort of the, the going independent. I was able to send one newsletter to that audience and say this is where I'll be.

So, you know, I don't update that one as often, but I do have. I like to talk about what I'm drinking, you know, when I'm trying new non alcoholic beers, or sometimes I'll share cocktail recipes from new books I'm reading. So that one was actually first. My main gig is the Dinner plan, which is a podcast and substack. It's sort of a living, breathing system. So the podcast goes Every week I interview a cookbook author every week. We talk about inspiration and where they find dinner ideas and the books they love. And then at the end of every show, someone calls in and shares what's in their fridge and the cookbook author guest comes up with a dinner idea for them.

And usually these folks are people with cookbooks, often new cookbooks. And so in the substack each week, we share all of the links to all the recipes that they have talked about so people don't have to like, take notes. Anything they've recommended, it's all there in the newsletter. And then we reprint a recipe from Their books. You can get a little preview of the book, and that's why you should sign up for the newsletter. Someone told me they were taking notes on the show, and I was like, oh, no, no, no, you don't have to do that.

Stephanie Hansen:

You have such good notes on the episodes.

Maggie Hoffman:

And, I mean, I listen to these things over and over.

Stephanie Hansen:

You have, like, attached and linked every single recipe idea anyone's ever discussed in the pod. I mean, it's extensive, you guys, you gotta follow.

Maggie Hoffman:

And then I have a big list, which I think is really fun, of every book that has gotten recommended. So each person comes with, like, two or three ideas. Well, that has become a very big list. We're getting close to 50 episodes, and each person. I mean, you do the math. So, yeah, that's the main project, and then the vintage table is a little side project, and maybe they'll get merged at some point, but I just cannot buy every piece of vintage tableware that I love. And so I thought I should probably start sharing the links so that I get. Maybe other people will take them off the market.

Stephanie Hansen:

That is smart, because once you start, like, in that Facebook marketplace or Etsy channel of looking for vintage things, ebay, they find you. Yeah, yeah.

Maggie Hoffman:

So there's usually, like, a theme, you know, sort of beachy things for summer or, you know, whatever is the thing that I'm sort of obsessing over. And that's just for fun, but it's a lot of fun.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, I. I find it very fun. When you were so how long were you the digital director at Epicurious?

Maggie Hoffman:

I think I was there a total of four years. I started as the senior editor under David to Markin, who's at King Arthur Flour now, and I took over running it when he left.

Stephanie Hansen:

And we're probably better off now because we have so many different avenues for creators. Right. Substack has really, like, democratized the creating world. From podcasting, did you find, like, you know, when you work for a big company, there's resources and podcast studios, and then all of a sudden you're on your own and you have to figure it all out. Substack makes it so easy.

Maggie Hoffman:

Yeah, substack and all the other ways. You know, I think everyone's ability to sort of launch their own independent media is truly exciting, and people are doing it in all sorts of, you know, not just substack, but also their own websites and Patreon and, you know, people have huge success.

Stephanie Hansen:

Do you think that that is. I mean, I feel sad about that. I think it is cutting into traditional magazine resources, digital resources, digital archives, because people don't necessarily need that to be seen anymore. They can create their own engines. But I also, like, every time I get a magazine, it's a little bit thinner. I think, like, oh, don't wait. Because I still love some of those traditional printed forms and I love linear television, and I also like terrestrial radio still. Like, I want there to be all those things and not have it be just one thing.

Maggie Hoffman:

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a little more complicated. I wouldn't blame independent creators for the shrinking of food media. I think that has a lot more to do with, you know, everything moving to digital and then sort of being flooded with ads and then search changing so much. I mean, there's just so many things that have shaped that. And I think it's incredibly sad to see, you know, so much of, you know, both book publishing and magazine publishing struggle. It has to do with ad dollars. And, you know, those are places where there are the resources for everything to be tested and tested again. And, you know, I think there's going to have to be a question of how many independent creators people can support.

And I don't think advertising is over. I think that is a way to fund some of this as well. You know, if an advertiser wants to support an independent creator, I think that's great. The budgets are going to be smaller than what they were paying for something else. And maybe it can all coexist, I'm.

Stephanie Hansen:

Hoping, because I think it ultimately, if it raises all boats right. But I mean, we are consolidating in a pretty rapid clip with the top seven media companies and social influencers. But when you think about your podcast and when you conceived it and knew who you wanted to talk to, what did that look like? Like, did you know right away what you were going to zero in on?

Maggie Hoffman:

Did I know? I was at the beach and was taking a long walk with my husband and sort of saying, were to do this thing, what would it be? I had gone through the process of pitching a show to Conde, which they decided they didn't want, and so I was pretty heartbroken and kind of had lost confidence. I've been in food media about 15 years now, a really long time. I actually worked in book publishing before that and blogging, and I was at Serious Eats in very early, exciting years. And. And I love being a part of that community. I love being able to see what's coming soon. Like, one of the biggest joys when I first started at epicurious, was I showed up and there was this stack of cookbooks on one of the, like, files sitting on one of the file cabinets. And people would sort of say, hey, does anybody have a copy of this? Does anybody have a copy of that? I was like, this is where I'm supposed to be like, you know, I mean, you can see the.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yep.

Maggie Hoffman:

Stacks of cookbooks continue. And so I sort of was like, what will be Feel like it sort of captures some of that excitement that I could do independently, and what would it take to do independently, and who would I want to talk to, what new books are, am I excited about? And, you know, just what would that conversation be? And I knew I didn't want it to be a podcast, really, about feeding kids. That's really not what it is. It's really for all cooks, and it focuses a lot on that moment of inspiration. And, you know, I was really burnt out, and it was affecting my cooking. And I think everyone who works really hard can feel that affecting their cooking.

Stephanie Hansen:

I'm just coming off a cookbook launch or getting ready to launch, and I'm like, sometimes the idea of what to eat, I'm just like, all I've done is cook this week. Like a million places for a million people, for a million things, documented it all. And I just want a piece of peanut butter toast.

Maggie Hoffman:

Yeah. And that's fine, I think. But, you know, even if you don't work in food, I think if your job is stressful, the world is stressful. Everything, you know, everything feels like it's on fire. Cooking can be really nourishing, sort of mentally and, you know, spiritually, or it can be a thing that causes stress. And how do you get to a place where it feels like it is soothing, where it feels like it's a meditation. Meditation. Whatever it is you need from cooking, how do you get to a place where your dinners make you happy, where you're delighted by what you eat? And so we talk a lot about that.

And so I think that came out of. I had written a story about cooking burnout during the days of the early pandemic. And it was something I kept getting notes about where people would be like, oh, my gosh, this is totally me. And so that's the thing I come back to, and people's answers are very different. I sort of wondered, like, if we kind of bring up this topic with so many different food people, is it going to start to get repetitive? But sometimes someone will just floor me with a totally different response to this problem. And so that's been really interesting.

Stephanie Hansen:

During the pandemic, I've had a radio show about food for, gosh, 18 years, I think. And during the pandemic, we did a lot of that. We called it pantry panic because you were going into the grocery store with your mask and your cart or your bucket, whatever you were putting your groceries in, and you were just literally like throwing staples in just because you didn't want to run out of yeast or flour or sugar and beans and rice and whatever you had. And then you'd get home, you'd be looking at your pantry and like, oh my gosh, how am I going to actually turn this into a meal for cooks and home cooks? You know, that was what we do. Like, okay. But for a lot of people that were two working families had really relied on a lot of convenience type of foods, that was a really new experience for them. To be staring at a bag of split peas and figuring out how to get that to the table.

That was such a great. For me as a cook, it was such a great reorienting of how we look at our food systems and how to help people. And it reinvigorated my love of cooking and wanting to write cookbooks that would be for everybody necessarily. Not like, you know, I'm from the Midwest, we cook pretty. Basically, we don't have access to a lot of the fresh stuffs on either coast, but we do have these great grains and we have all these things that are in the breadbasket of the United States. It that pandemic, silver lining for me was going back to actually cooking.

Maggie Hoffman:

Yeah. I also think we saw the rise of a lot of small businesses that are making things to make life easier and to add flavor. You know, there's. There's so many more companies selling various, you know, sauces and seasonings and things. You know, I think I was in a moment where I was like, oh, man. Like you had to replace restaurant food with home cooked food. And was I really going to do something complicated? And that's where, you know, I just am really cheering for these small businesses because it can be so amazing to have those on hand. And you can usually mail order them.

Stephanie Hansen:

And just thinking about, like, the condiments, like chili crisp is a condiment that has been around for a long time, but just came into the zeitgeist in the last five years. You know, obviously the proliferation of hot sauces, but also like sumac and za' atar and some of these more world spices that we weren't familiar with necessarily. It's really brought a whole new way of looking at your basic home cooking.

Maggie Hoffman:

And, of course, some people have been cooking with those things forever, for sure. But I also think there, you know, the cookbook publishing industry is very slow because it takes two years for books to come out. Right. It's a very slow process. And so I think you're finally seeing so many more books from so many more voices, and so you have a guide. You're not just blindly using something you've never seen before.

Stephanie Hansen:

Along those lines, are there, like, a handful of books that have come across your desk recently that you're like, yes.

Maggie Hoffman:

I mean, so many. That's, like, my whole thing. Let me think. I mean, there's so many, I think, of the recent one. Zaynab Issa, Third Culture Cooking, is really wonderful. She was a Bon Appetit, and it's just incredibly talented with flavor. She does a lot of development for NYT Cooking now, and that's a good place to find her recipes. But that book's really lovely.

Norma Rod's book, she was at Yotam Ottolenghi, and her book is called “Lugma, Abundant Dishes and Stories From My Middle East”, and she's from Bahrain. And that book is just. You just want to cook everything in it. Just really, really. I mean, the photography is stunning.

Oh, my gosh. What else? Rick Martinez's new salsa book, “Salsa Daddy, a Cookbook: Dip Your Way Into Mexican Cooking” is really fun and really just, like, a smart thing. If you are feeling bored with sort of, you know, your rotation of, like, protein.

Like, if you are doing rotisserie chicken, can of beans, pasta, like, if you were doing that rotation, the answer. When I talked to Rick, he was talking about how when you make salsas, like, so many of them, you could freeze. And so then you can mix and match. You can pull one from your freezer. You can, you know, toss that rotisserie chicken with a green salsa one night and a different salsa the other night. And that was just, like, so exciting to me.

Stephanie Hansen:

Do you use your freezer a lot? I mean, I find, like, cooks. I have two freezers, and they're always loaded, and I'm trying to eat out of the freezer constantly with the very little success.

Maggie Hoffman:

That's always the challenge. You really have to keep a list. You really have to put, like, a freezer night on your schedule. My husband travels a lot, and so I try to eat from the freezer when he's gone. So it's like, this is super easy when I'm juggling. I use the freezer for all kinds of things. You know, I do try to put sauces in there. But he had that problem of, like, chucking half of the can of chipotle is in the freezer.

Stephanie Hansen:

You never get to it.

Maggie Hoffman:

One thing, I did have one sort of freezer epiphany recently. Not so much of summer food, but I often make turkey chili. It's one of my favorites. Really comforting. And I always put beans in it, which is how I grew up with it. And I was freezing a big, big batch and realized there was no way I was going to fit this batch in the freezer. But I'm just, you know, putting a can of beans in it and letting it simmer for half an hour. Right.

So I was like, oh, wait, I'm not going to include the beans in the frozen version. I'm just going to freeze the part that is less bulky, and then when I take it out of the freezer, I can add the can of beans, heat it all up, and that way I'm not taking something from the pantry where it's fine, and using up the space in my freezer.

Stephanie Hansen:

Gosh, that is kind of, like, weirdly groundbreaking because I'm using Ziploc bags and freezing them flat. I'm using super cubes, mason jars, quartz pints, but.

Maggie Hoffman:

Yeah, that's right.

Stephanie Hansen:

Wow. Yes. Okay. I'm just. I'm that.

Maggie Hoffman:

And I wonder if there's other things like that.

Stephanie Hansen:

Well, I was just trying to think.

Maggie Hoffman:

And you just don't need to add something bulky before freezing.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Maybe even, like, just sauces, like adding the meats where you can just quickly saute the meats, throw in the sauce, and. Huh.

Maggie Hoffman:

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

All right. You might be on to something. This is exciting.

Maggie Hoffman:

I mean, and especially I use the instant pot a lot in the summer. My kitchen's really hot. And so if you're making just, like, a basic, you know, shredded chicken in an instant pot, any sauce could be the liquid.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yep. I also find, like, I make a lot of soups and Stewie and breezy things, and there's only two of us, and I cook, like, for eight. So by the time I'm done after making the initial meal, having a leftover meal, maybe a lunch, I still have, like, four portions, and by then, I don't want to eat it anymore. So I'm like, oh, okay, how can I freeze this? And how can I make it into a handy meal for the next? I give away a lot of food probably because of that, because I just don't want to deal with it anymore.

Maggie Hoffman:

Yeah. If you're recipe testing, if you're working on books, there's just, you gotta share.

Stephanie Hansen:

And you've made three of the same thing and it's very similar. Maybe a little dash of this or dash of that. You're just like, ugh, I don't want to look at it one more second. When, when you think about the vintage table, just going back to that a second, we're seeing a lot of vintage things come back in vogue. So like the sterling silver platters and the farm glass. And you mentioned DANSK, you know, food 52 reinvested in that company and rebought it out of bankruptcy. Are there trends that you're seeing like with linens or silverware or things that you're excited about?

Maggie Hoffman:

I mean, I love weird silver. Sort of how this all started is that my favorite thing is, you know, and they're not that expensive if you have just like a tiny little fork. But you know, there's forks for everything. There's a lemon fork and an olive fork and a sardine fork. And so I love that a berry spoon. I had, I found this beautiful berry spoon that kind of had. It was pierced so that if you had like, you know, something that was a little wet, the, the water would run off and it was just gorgeous. And I put it in the newsletter and a friend of mine reached out and said, I have that.

Maggie Hoffman:

I got it for my wedding for my grandmother and I've never seen a similar one. And there it was on ebay.

Stephanie Hansen:

That's so cool.

Maggie Hoffman:

I think that's neat. And, and so, yeah, I'm really into the strangest silver you can possibly find.

Stephanie Hansen:

It's funny because you don't think about how many pieces there are. And you were like. The first time I ate at a French restaurant with my mother in law who was very proper, I was so intimidated. There was literally like 18 pieces of silverware on the place setting. And I mean, I knew like from the Joya cooking diagram that my mom showed me, like, but there were so many pieces of silver, I had no idea. And I just waited to eat. I ordered the same thing she did. And I waited to eat until she picked up something and then I would pick it up.

And years later I kind of confessed and we laughed. And she was like, I didn't know what half of that stuff was. We just don't eat like that now.

Maggie Hoffman:

No. And I like to have these little things, like to set out snacks for friends, you know, put out a bunch of bowls of things and then it's just like that. The little serving fork you know, on the plate of charcuterie or whatever is old.

Stephanie Hansen:

I want to tell people too. Like, if you have pieces that are real sterling or fancy crystal dishes, whatever it is, like, use them, you know, Like, I think we wait for this special occasion, that our lives are special occasions. You know, we are being inundated with a lot of information and a lot of weird news. And if you can just have that moment of feeling luxurious by yourself or in your own home or with your friends, I think it brings. Breaks down the barriers of entertaining. Like, serve beans and rice on crystal dishes if you want to. Who cares?

Maggie Hoffman:

And like, anytime you're in real life with an actual human is especially. Yes.

Stephanie Hansen:

Like, get out that vintage coupe glass and pour yourself a mocktail or a cocktail, whatever.

Maggie Hoffman:

Yeah, I have these. My husband grew up with these little cocktail. They're like cocktail picks. I think they're for like an olive and your martini. And they're little swords from Toledo, Spain, which is where, like, swords are made. And they're real little swords. And he and his cousins used to like, sword fight with them. And they're absolutely dangerous.

It's a terrible idea. But they're really fun. For olives or for like, you know, that little tapa that's like pepper and an anchovy and an olive.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes. What do they call those? Pinchos.

Maggie Hoffman:

Yeah, so we do that sometimes and we had the little swords and one time someone was clearing the plates and just threw one out. Oh, a little like. So in the end, I actually ended up finding another set. They're around, they're not expensive. And so now the ones that were his grandmother's are like on a shelf sort of displayed. And the. The ebay ones are in rotation.

Stephanie Hansen:

Wow, that's pretty great. When you are looking for guests, do you search the Internet? Do you spend a lot of time on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook? What's your.

Maggie Hoffman:

I have known the book publicists from all the different publishing houses for a long time. So often I get an email when a book's coming out. I also go on. Just like if you go on a. On a bookstore website, you can go on Amazon and sort by date. I can see what's coming out. You know, like, here are all the books coming out in August under Cooking and Food. So I often do that.

I'm planning several months in advance. So it's really sort of trying to figure out when is the right time to talk to somebody. And often, you know, people are juggling like a European tour and an American tour. I try to talk to them before things get really busy. And in fall. Fall's the big cookbook season, and so there's so many new releases, and some of them are too busy to talk to me, but I'm talking to some really exciting people. This.

Stephanie Hansen:

Oh, nobody would be too busy. I always think it's kind of shocking. Like, the first time I reached out to Yodam Odalingi, actually, and I just was like, oh, I don't know what he's doing, but I want to talk to him. He's fun. And so I just, like, sent him an Instagram message, and he replied. And we booked an interview for the radio show, and he was so delightful that we recorded a video podcast of it, too. And he was just so great. And people were like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe you got him.

I was like, well, maybe sometimes people just don't ask. And I don't know. I just think you always can ask. People can always say no.

Maggie Hoffman:

Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I'm not strict. I'd say almost all of my guests are people with, like, a book coming out that week. But then there's also just people I want to talk to. I talked to Hetty McKinnon, and now that was last year, and she has a new book coming out this year, and maybe we'll do it again. But, you know, this challenge, it can be interesting to talk to people in different moments of their lives. People who have just finished a book sometimes are kind of overwhelmed, and it's not the moment where they're, like, thinking about cooking for themselves necessarily.

So it can be useful sort of across the board.

Stephanie Hansen:

When you are booking a guest, do you think about, like. And maybe this is a separate question, too, but the monetization of the podcast, like, do you worry about that? You're a freelance person. Is this, like. I. I'm kind of thinking about the substack algorithm and wondering if it's peaked for. Because people feel like they're subscribing to lots of things, and people are feeling kind of poor right now because the economy's not necessarily been great. Do you worry about that, or do.

Maggie Hoffman:

You just let me tell you about my business a little bit? So, I mean, I'm making it up as I go, but very early on, I felt like I wanted the newsletter to be visible to everyone because it's part of the service of the show. I want everyone to get all those links, and I want people to listen, and I want it to serve as a reminder, like, hey, there's, a new show up, you know, and the day that I publish the show every week, you know it's going to show up. If you follow in Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen, you know, that's a thing. But so I have paid subscriptions as an option on Substack and that is people who want to support the show. The show costs money. I record at a studio. I don't record at home mostly because there's a construction project going on next door. I recorded a studio with an amazing engineer and his team.

So I pay them for the space and for the help and everything else I do myself. It is my full time job. So in order to pay for all those things, I have advertising and I sell the advertising myself. So yeah, so I'm reaching out to people and saying, look like this is this wonderful audience that loves to cook and is looking for things that will make their cooking life better or easier, more delicious. And people are interested. And so the people who are paid Substack subscribers are supporting the show and to thank them, every week I give away a copy of the author's book and that goes to paid subscribers. So my hope is that people might sign up for an annual subscription. It's 30 bucks.

Maggie Hoffman:

And then they might win a book. That would be 30 bucks and it would all work out. I have a super exciting. I'm doing like a big thank you to paid subscribers for the 50th episode of the show which is coming up. And it is an unbelievable prize. It's going to be so awesome. But so that's the most of my money is not being made by paid subscribers. I have like not very many.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah.

Maggie Hoffman:

And, but I love substrate and I love the community. Something I'm really into is the notes part of it which I think some people hate because it's social media. But I think there is a cool food scene on there and something that I do is just post my like actual boring dinner, not a picture. It's literally just like this is my plan. First thing in the morning I'll say this is what I'm doing tonight and that can be fun. And so most of the money that pays for the production of the show and for my full time work is coming from advertisers. I'm so grateful for them. And you know, I think when I listen to a podcast and I hear a recommendation in the host voice, I often consider buying those.

And so I believe, I believe in the power of it. And I work with advertisers who I think are cool. And it's a fun part of the business, which is that I get to talk to founders of food companies and cookware companies. And so I actually wouldn't give that up. I think it's really fun.

Stephanie Hansen:

That's very unique because I came from a sales background myself. I've owned a couple of companies and food is my full time life too. But it's freelance. I mean, I'm freelance. Radio, freelance podcast, freelance TV show, all the things. Freelance cook, write a cookbook. And you cobble together the pots of money and at the end of the year you have 15 W9s and you pay your own insurance. But there is a little bit of freedom in that.

That's nice too. So I'm impressed that you're doing all that yourself. That's cool.

Maggie Hoffman:

I mean, freelance writing, I would say. There's so many great writers out there and people who are writing features for magazines and that's their like full time gig. Like those are really amazing people. I am an editor at heart, really. I've always been an editor and it's harder to put together editing gigs and so the writing, the things that I was being offered weren't that exciting. And I was like, what if I just invest in this? What if I take a couple of months and see what it's going to cost and what I can raise in advertising? And I told myself I was going to take the leap and not evaluate whether it was a good idea or not for six months.

Stephanie Hansen:

Smart.

Maggie Hoffman:

And it turned out we sort of said, okay, I'm going to learn how to do it. I'm going to get better at it and try to make it good. Then I'm going to try to grow it and increase the audience and then I'm going to try to monetize it. And it's turned out that I've sort of done all those things at once.

Stephanie Hansen:

It is the dinner plan and I can really think of no better way than to end this podcast than those last three minutes of you describing what it's like and what it feels like to make this a full time endeavor and why people want to listen and support you. I really enjoyed this chat. You're really doing some incredible work and I just like everything you're doing. So congratulations on getting this all figured out.

Maggie Hoffman:

Thanks so much.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah, I'm going to put links to all the newsletters and the pod. I'll work on getting this episode prepared and send you a proof before we release it. But thanks, Maggie. I appreciate you being a guest today.

Maggie Hoffman:

Thank you.

Stephanie Hansen:

All right, we'll talk soon.

Maggie Hoffman:

All right. Bye.

Stephanie Hansen:

Okay, bye. Bye.

Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe

Stephanie:

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's Dish, the podcast where we talk to cool people in the food space. We talk to a lot of cookbook authors, and today I'm excited to talk to Sally Ekus. She is a literary agent, which, if you've written books or you're trying to get a book published, you know how important the agent process is. She leads a boutique culinary and lifestyle division via @JVNLA and is the lead agent at the Ekus Group. Did I get it right?

Follow Sally’s Substack Newsletter Not So Secret Agent

Sally Ekus:

Oh, I was just gonna say, yeah, I lead the Ekus Group. So we're a culinary and lifestyle division within a broader agency.

Stephanie:

And the Ekus Group was started by your mom.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

A legend. Your mom has, like, one of the largest cookbook collections that I'm aware of.

Sally Ekus:

In fact, the largest, according to Guinness. Yes.

Stephanie:

A couple of months ago, I think maybe it was on your Instagram page, someone posted a picture of her library of her home that is literally looks like a library that you would see in New York city or Washington, D.C. or somewhere fancy with just walls and walls of books. It was so gorgeous.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah, It's a two store, all cherry wood, gorgeous library. She built the edition. It was a dream edition. It took a lifetime to build. And it is filled with cookbooks, almost exclusively cookbooks. Her fiction and children's books and other personal books are scattered elsewhere around the house. But the library is almost entirely culinary with over 6000 titles. It's really cool.

Stephanie:

It's amazing. And your mom's name is? Lisa. Please, can I ask you a question? I'm going to go all over the place here, but sure, please. I have a daughter and only one daughter and no sons. So my only child. And there are things that we have in common about cooking and about food, and I always think, like, oh, maybe she'll follow in my footsteps. But then she is quick to point out, like, no, I'm never doing that. But then she's sort of leaning sort of my way.

Stephanie:

How did that work with you and being in the publishing space?

Sally Ekus:

Yeah. So how old is your daughter now?

Stephanie:

26.

Sally Ekus:

Okay. Yeah. So growing up, my mom had this vibrant culinary business. At the time, it was a PR agency before we did agenting, and it was never supposed to be a family business. She never pressured me or said, you know, maybe one day. In fact, it was just like. If you had asked me before I started working with her, what does Lisa do for a living? I would have said something with books and something in food. So I was like, growing up in this.

Sally Ekus:

And I was immersed and sort of absorbing by osmosis. And, you know, in the, in my younger years, I would be like, collating press kits for PR campaigns and, you know, I was like earning a allowance, mailing catalogs and whatnot. But it wasn't, it wasn't something she was really like, whatever you want to do, follow your heart. I was on a different path. I went to school for counseling and I was about to go for a master's in social work. And I deferred. I broke up with a bad decision, moved home, started helping out at the agency and realized that I'd been informally training for this my whole life. I really fell in love with it.

And I was very fortunate to step into the legacy of her reputation. And then also, once we decided this is something I wanted to do, talk about what the succession plan would look like and really carve out my own, you know, vibe and skill set and cultivate my own list, supporting her list. And so it was really a unintentional natural progression that then became quite intentional and, you know, quite effortful. So I think that's kind of why it worked out. And if, you know, but it's hard to say in hindsight.

Stephanie:

It's funny too. You talk about this like being in training of knowing this thing and you not even really realizing that until you've left and gone to do something else. And also, it does track that you were going to be a social worker.

Sally Ekus:

Absolutely.

Stephanie:

And now you're an agent.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah. I somewhat sarcastically but realistically acknowledge that I was trained in crisis counseling, active listening, and negotiation. So all of those things play a very big role in the work that I do as a literary agent working with books. But, you know, at the end of the day, it is a book. It is you know, not somebody's. Well, it is somebody's mental well being, but in a. In a different light. So I get to utilize those skills all the time.

Sally Ekus:

And it feels, it feels quite, quite lucky. And, you know, it's really the client management and author care and author advocacy that I love so much. And that has kept me, kept me in this, in this business for as long as it has.

Stephanie:

What is it about cookbooks in particular that makes you solely focus on that?

Sally Ekus:

Well, that I stepped into, you know, that was Lisa's area of expertise. She was one of the very first cookbook publicists. Publicist. She essentially created the category of culinary publicity before there were massive agencies handling, you know, influencers and brand campaigns. And so that was her area of expertise. So that's what I stepped into and was hyper mentored in. And I also equally just felt in love with it. I mean, there are many different things that bring people together, and at the end of the day, it feels like food is that one.

Sally Ekus:

Through line. Everyone has some relationship to food, recipes, cooking, memory, good, bad, complicated, probably somewhere in the middle. And so to have a little. To have a role in helping to bring that to fruition in published form is a tremendous honor.

Stephanie:

You are the publisher, or the agent, actually, of Entertaining 101 with Beth Lamana.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah. Yes.

Stephanie:

We just talked with. With her last.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah, I listened to that. It was such a fun conversation.

Stephanie:

Yeah, she was pretty great. And the weirdest thing happened to me the other day. I was at my radio partner's office, and we were talking about a project, and she had a stack of cookbooks, and I was like, oh, what are you working on? She's like, oh, I'm. I'm helping our friend from Muriel, Karen Tomlinson, put her proposal together.

Sally Ekus:

Oh, my gosh.

Stephanie:

Oh, that's interesting. And she goes, yeah, she's got a really great agent already. And I'm like, who's her agent? And it's you.

Sally Ekus:

Yes, it is. Yeah. I'm so excited to be working with her. Yep. Yeah.

Stephanie:

Her point of view on food and her storytelling of the purveyors that she works with and her just completely beautiful recipes. I'm so excited for you, and I'm so excited for that book.

Sally Ekus:

Thank you. Yeah, I mean, that's a great example of really early development. You know, I often say that I work with people, not proposals. You know, we can get to the proposal. I help guide people through that process as an agent. And, you know, this is a great example where it's like, you know, I'm so captivated by the food and the media attention and the accolades and the intentionality of what is happening from the farm to the plate. And so, you know, sometimes chefs work with writers or collaborators to help bring that to the. To the printed page.

Sally Ekus:

And that's where we're at with that project. So it's in very early stages, which is super exciting.

Stephanie:

Yeah. You're going to not be disappointed. She is just a great person. She's a great storyteller, and that you had a really good eye to pick her up, because I think she's.

Sally Ekus:

Thank you.

Stephanie:

What other projects do you have on the docket right now that you're excited about? I see Potluck Desserts behind you.

Sally Ekus:

Oh, yeah. Justin Burke, Potluck Desserts. Justin's book came out the same day as Beth's just a couple weeks ago.

And I try to rotate in my background the books that are sort of newly rotating. So The Meathead Method over here, that is Meathead's second book. His first book called Meathead, came out almost 10 years ago. And it's all. Both books are all about the science and art and science of barbecue and grilling and outdoor cooking.

Sally Ekus:

I have books in a bunch of different levels of activity, so that's also fun because I have something that's like, you know, proposal and development and then things that are coming out. So it really, it really runs the gamut. I just saw Frankie Gaw, whose Instagram handle is @littlefatboyfrankie. He's up for a James Beard Media Award, and he just turned in the manuscript for his second book called Asian Americana. So I'm really excited about that. So it's really all levels of development over here.

Stephanie:

Once someone does their first book, is it easier to market them the second time around?

Sally Ekus:

Great question. I find that yes, because really, once that first book is to, you know, publishers need you to have or want you to have a big platform to warrant signing a book deal. And then the book helps sort of level up that platform, promotion, name recognition, certainly moving beyond like the core community of that author. It helps introduce new readers, new cooks, new fans to that person's work. And so I find that that second book, third book, fourth book, 10th book, really helps just keep that momentum going.

Stephanie:

You wrote something recently on your substack that people should follow you because you're a good follow that I really have spent a lot of time thinking about, and I'm probably going to get the name of the author wrong. So you may have to come.

Sally Ekus:

We can figure it out together. Yeah.

Stephanie:

The idea of it was is that a new cookbook writer launched a book tour in a way that was a little unconventional and in some ways maybe controversial because instead of the usual like going out to the booksellers and having a Q and A and talking, she hired her friend who is a comedian and really created more of like, I'll call it in air quotes, like a Real Housewives type in person cooking experience. That there was cooking demonstration, there was talking about the book. Do you know who I'm talking about?

Sally Ekus:

No, actually. Was it one of my clients or maybe a reshare?

Stephanie:

I think it's a reshare because she has been on the New York Times bestseller list now with her book for a couple weeks and it was the literary agencies kind of looked down on what she did a little bit because it was unconventional and maybe a little.

Sally Ekus:

I mean, I love unconventional.

Stephanie:

I kind of did too.

Sally Ekus:

Oh, yeah.

Stephanie:

I wanted to ask you about that because I'm, you know, I'm getting ready to launch my own tour and thinking about, like, locations and. Yeah, it really blew my mind to think, like, for me in particular, and people that have really strong performing skills, like, you know, I am, I would say I'm more of a performer of cooking content than I am of necessarily creating recipes. I do recipe development, but it's more about the presentation of it. And I think that's so cool to think about that we're bringing books into this digital age in that way.

Sally Ekus:

Absolutely. So my overarching advice with every anything in publishing is it depends and you do you like, what fits for one person is not one size fits all for the other book or other campaigns. And so I love to share information, whether it's on my substack not so secret agent or on my social or just with my clients. Like, I like to share. Here's an example or here's five examples of what another author has done, what is helpful, what resonates with you, and like, move on from the rest. You know, how can you evolve this into your own campaign? And cooking is such a tactile experience. It's so experiential in and of itself. It's such a connector.

Sally Ekus:

It also can be so beautiful alone. Like, do what feels right for you, your book, and share in a way that feels true to you. Because that's what I think really attracts people to come out first and foremost and like, spend their free time and free re and any sort of additional resources they may have and make it fun and memorable. You know, I mean, I think more and more we see brands and individual authors and companies just evolving. You know the term like activation into experiences, into just moments that matter.

Stephanie:

You mentioned your substack not so secret agent, and I'm wondering if substack is changing or improving the landscape for cookbook authors.

Sally Ekus:

I think substack's changing all kinds of things. You know, it used to be that at least as a cookbook agent, we would sort of scout on Instagram or TikTok. And now substack is certainly a major player and there's a ton of food content and creators on substack. But even just a year ago when I got on, there's a lot less and I think there's still a lot more room because there's so many hyper focused areas of interest in foods that you have this opportunity. You know, maybe you can't land a publishing deal, but if you can build a community of the people that want your recipes, your voice, your food, whatever it is in that specific space, go for it. I mean, you can be so hyper focused and really build this, this beautiful community. And I love the Substack ecosystem. It's been incredibly generous to me and I try to give back as much as possible.

Sally Ekus:

Like the recommendations and resharing and discoverability aspect of Substack has been a really beautiful thing to experience.

Stephanie:

They've really democratized the idea of podcasting too. I've been podcasting for seven years. Actually longer than that, maybe even closer to like nine.

Sally Ekus:

Wow.

Stephanie:

Well, I was a broadcaster so it makes sense to go from radio to developing a podcast space and just the ease of ability of doing it now, you know, before you had to have special equipment and people to host it. And it's just gotten so much simpler. And we're also seeing that, I think with video that's making it so easy to go live. You don't necessarily need 10,000 watch hours on YouTube or 3,000 subscribers or whatever, you know.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah, most of my readers come like my email goes to their actual email inbox though people find me through substack and so it's been fun. I'm not by any means a seasoned or polished content creator, but I've been doing videos as one means of explaining other things about publishing and just kind of seeing how that resonates with people in their inbox versus other mediums. And it's been really fun. They are super lo fi and quite off the cuff. But most people that are not tuning in live to me on Substack, they'll find it in their inbox the next morning, which has been really fun too.

Stephanie:

I think the lo fi aspects too are almost what people are looking for.

Sally Ekus:

I hope so.

Stephanie:

I have not the TikTok algorithm and I are not friends, probably never will be friends. And I don't understand it at all because I can produce like something that looks great, tastes good, you. It's just mouthwatering to watch. And then I can post like a picture of my dog and that will be the thing that.

Sally Ekus:

Right. Well, I think animals will always outperform us on, on the socials as they should at this point.

Stephanie:

You know, it's so crazy. It's so crazy. A single subject book has popped into the zeitgeist that I'm really. I think it's a really great book. Sesame, it's called.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

And it's like a single ingredient versus and they take that. She takes that single ingredient and uses it in many different ways throughout the book. You must see like single ingredient books, seasonal books, like, are there trends in what's hot right now?

Sally Ekus:

I love single ingredient books or single subject. Oftentimes it's a lower recipe count, somewhere between like the 50 to 75 range, as opposed to 75 to 100 or 125. It just feels like a little bit more giftable, a little bit more impulse buy. And it's really fun to see those. There's always single subject books cropping up. But I think particularly in the shift in the cookbook market, meaning there's a bigger gap between creator led books, big robust cookbooks and then sort of a place for everyone else. And sometimes that place where you can settle in for everyone else if you don't have this massive following is in a single subject book that could be your expertise or deep, deeply researched. I don't necessarily think that's so much a trend as it is something that like ebbs and flows.

Sally Ekus:

And we see a little bit more of on the cookbook shelf because they've always been there. But now people can nerd out on one thing and they'll go to the cookbook shelf because the food scene just in the zeitgeist has become so popular. There's strawberry earrings and I've got a sweater with cherries on it. So why not a book about just sesame? It's really a time to celebrate ingredients and food.

Stephanie:

When you are on like Instagram or TikTok and you're trying to relax, like you're not working. And I know that's really hard to even do.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

Are you following like other creators and other spaces and thinking like, gee, how are they doing this or does that work for you?

Sally Ekus:

Well, I would, I would just clarify that I don't go on social to relax, but and also I'm almost always working. However, to answer your actual question, I have. Most of the people I follow outside of the food space are in the body inclusivity, body positivity space. I follow some fashion people that are highly inclusive, plus size fashion people that have completely changed my relationship to even the fact that I've said fashion on a podcast interview. I just never would have been that person a while ago. But it's offered me an opportunity to see like color and textures and textiles and just the lifestyle of how we have a relationship to our closet In a new way. Also the home and space, you know, I sometimes represent outside of the cookbook shelf. And so I like to say that I, I represent the home with a focus on the kitchen, but I also, you know, hang out in the living room and I have a tiny human, so I hang out with the kids space.

Sally Ekus:

And so it's just focusing on other rooms at the home at times has been really fun too. So that's kind of where I dabble on social as well.

Stephanie:

Speaking of kids, I don't know why this comes to mind, but I always get asked, you know, what are the cookbooks that you should be buying for kids and better homes or not. Betty Crocker's Boys and Girls is still like a best selling book, right?

Sally Ekus:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

And then there's one other one that I'm going to not think of the name right off the top of my head, but there feels like there is kind of an empty space in Cooking with Kids and Cooking with Families.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah, there's a few. So I love the ATK books. I think it's a great brand. They've got great recipes for Cooking with Kids. Deanna Cook, who is a story publishing author, has a bunch of kids books that are awesome. And for me, I think sometimes it's not that there's like a lack of. It's just that there's still space for. And the tricky part about pitching and representing those books or selling them is it, is, is it a book for cooking with kids? Is it a book for kids to cook from? You know, and those are different age groups and those are different recipe styles.

Sally Ekus:

So much down to like the page and the format and the illustrations or the pictures or the how to steps. So there's just so many practical considerations and logistical ones that it's a slightly trickier category, but one that we've, we, we've dabbled in a little bit and there's some great books and I think a lot of space for, for others. The author of Indian Ish did a kids cookbook as well that I found really fun and just wonderful recipes. I forget the name of the book off the top of my head.

Stephanie:

That Indian Ish was a really cool cookbook.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah. Yes.

Stephanie:

There's been some just beautiful, texturally colorful books written by people from more diverse backgrounds. And while it seems like we see a ton of that right now, and we are, it is fairly new in the last 10 years.

Sally Ekus:

It has become magnified and intensified though our agency. And kudos to Lisa for carving out her space as a Literary agent representing underrepresented voices from the get go. It's been a part of the ethos of our agency since day one. And so to see publishers in the past 10 years really prioritizing marginalized voices is amazing. And also a little about time, you know?

Stephanie:

Yeah.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

Okay. Kind of a controversial question. Sometimes people in the media can be a little snooty about influencers and about social media in particular, because I think they feel maybe like people are treading on their. Their authority of space. Yeah, you get people that feel snarky sometimes about, like, oh, they're an influencer. It's another influencer cookbook and kind of eye rolling because there are some not so great cookbooks written by really good content creators, but maybe they're not great at putting it all in a book format or maybe the recipes aren't necessarily great. Once they get past that beautiful shot, do you think that there'll be, like, almost a backlash to this whole genre, as it were?

Sally Ekus:

I don't know that it would necessarily be a backlash in that a lot of the creator led books, both the great ones and the more challenging ones. I think the positive outcome of all of those books is that it has put this spotlight on food and the cookbook shelf. And I think the more people who are interested in what books are on the cookbook shelf, the better. What I do feel, and I've already started feeling this as an agent, is that the shift back to experts or an evolution to what is the next version of people that have really robust followings, capturing their audience in a meaningful way and delivering content that rings true to that audience and honors what the industry is looking for. I'm already hearing that shift from acquiring editors from publishers that I work really closely with and even in my own scouting. So I feel like we are moving towards the. Thank you very much for bringing a spotlight to the shelf. And where are we going and how can we all support the industry at large and.

Stephanie:

And the trend that we're talking about or hearing about is more expertise, you know, more of a microscope on something in more detail.

Sally Ekus:

Exactly, yeah. Which is so fun. I mean, more interest, more books, more. More food, more deep dives.

Stephanie:

And also, like, I mean, we just start scratching the surface about, like, my husband and I are working on books about place of food. So, like, we've written a fiction book about Croatia that has recipe as a component to it.

Sally Ekus:

I'm seeing a lot more crossover among different genres, even between fiction and nonfiction. I was just pitched a proposal, probably the first Maybe it's the second one that has sort of a fictional component to it. And I, you know, I don't represent fiction. That's for my colleagues at the agency and other agents in the industry. But it is fun to see how food has like penetrated every aspect of our lives and it's just delightful.

Stephanie:

Yeah, I'm super excited about that. In just my personal journey, it's keeping it fresh and interesting.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah.

Stephanie:

You know, my husband is a writer as a fiction writer. And for us to like collaborate on a project together in a way that I know what my lane is and he knows what his lane is is pretty fun.

Sally Ekus:

Well, I think that's one of the many gifts that have come out of this like creator led book or just like the, the intensification of food in the zeitgeist is that people who are, who are an expert in a certain culinary topic could be a consultant on a novel or who knows, you know what I mean? And it's just, it's blowing the fridge doors wide open.

Stephanie:

I feel like it's sort of like the white lotus effect for books and cooking and food generally that put that lens on travel and exotic locales. And I just feel like that's the next thing and I'm gonna be there, I promise.

Sally Ekus:

Cool. Well, it is, it's so fun to just see our beloved culinary space be celebrated across, across genres and like just.

Stephanie:

To get back to as a little kid going into a bookstore or going into the library and just the joy of, you know, books have been under attack for the last 20 years as the Amazonification of the world has happened. But we're seeing in Minneapolis in particular, like lots of local bookstores are opening again and people are making them multi purpose. So they might be selling cooking things, but also they might have a coffee shop, they might do pastry.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah, my. One of my favorite recommendations for authors or aspiring authors or just dear friends is to go to your local independent bookstore and talk to the people that work there and ideally talk to the owner and the people who make the decisions about what books to bring in. It is a wildly fascinating conversation.

Stephanie:

Yeah, it's the best part about a book tour for me is actually like getting to talk to the people that recommend and sell the books and then.

Sally Ekus:

Also buy books there. Not. I think that's implied, but you never know.

Stephanie:

Yes. Sally, it's been a delight to talk to you. Thank you for joining the program today. I'll put links to your substack, also your information. If I don't know if anyone's listening is thinking about pitches, but if you are.

Sally Ekus:

Yeah, I have really comprehensive nonfiction book proposal guidelines that definitely pertain to those looking to write food books, but also are really applicable to anyone that's looking to learn about publishing. So that's a great link to share. And thank you so much for having me on.

Stephanie:

Yeah, it's great. And keep pitching me your authors. You have good authors. And the books. Beth was a joy.

Sally Ekus:

Oh, thanks.

Stephanie:

All right, we'll talk soon.

Sally Ekus:

Okay, bye.

Stephanie:

Okay, bye. Bye.

Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe

I had a real fun time chatting with Beth La Manach, whose new cookbook, “Entertaining 101” just released. Beth’s YouTube channel is wildy entertaining and she is also on Substack so you can follow her Entertaining with Beth

Now since Beth makes it so easy lets all get to Entertianing!

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Stephanie Hansen:

Hello, everybody. Welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's Dish. I'm Stephanie Hansen and I like to talk to people obsessed with food. In particular, I enjoy cookbook authors and today I'm with Beth Lamonic and she is the author of a cookbook that just the title alone, I feel like holy cats. That's so intimidating. It is called entertaining one zero one. Beth, that just makes you, like, right on the level of Martha Stewart in my brain. Were you nervous about calling it one zero one?

Beth Le Manach:

No. Because the way that I'm thinking about the title is it's really targeted towards beginners or veterans who just need it to be easier and quicker. And I think everybody loves a one zero one entry point because they know it's not gonna be intimidating. It's gonna be accessible.

Stephanie Hansen:

Well, you are not a one zero one in your chops. You have over 662,000 followers on YouTube. They were like, oh, she has a a YouTube channel. And I went to look. I was like, holy cats. Tell me the name of your YouTube channel because I forgot to write it down. Recipes for entertaining. Was that what it was called?

Beth Le Manach:

No. It's called Entertaining with Beth.

Stephanie Hansen:

Got it. Okay. So you also are very fascinating, but I'm gonna get to that part in just a second. Take me through, like, your journey of, like, the how you started the YouTube and how we are that you're just is this your first book?

Beth Le Manach:

Yes. It isn't my first book. I know. I've been in a long time. I know exactly. Yeah. So it's kind of a long story, but I'll give you the highlights. I started my YouTube channel because I was by trade a producer for television, lifestyle television, and I got my start with the Scripps network.

Beth Le Manach:

So Food Network, HGTV, Fine Living, I was producing a bunch of content for them. I saw everything going online, digital. So I was like, I wanna produce digital content for the web. I got a job at a company that had a huge order for YouTube. So this was right around 2011 when YouTube started getting grants to media companies to produce quality content so they could get the advertisers to actually advertise against it. Because up into that point, it was a lot of, you know, skate board tricks and cat videos and stuff like that. Yeah. And so since I had come up with all of this kind of lifestyle content, my boss was like, okay. Create a YouTube channel that women will love. And I was a new mom. I had two small kids, and I was into all this lifestyle content, but I knew nothing about YouTube. So I had to really learn what it was, and little by little, we started to just create content. That was food content, fashion, beauty, all the things that I thought, like, women would be interested in.

And then one day, my boss came to me and said, you know what? We are, like, really behind on the hours here that we have to deliver. We gotta pep this up a bit. What do you got? And I was like, I think we should do, like, entertaining shows, like, thirty minute shows, like what we used to do for TV. Like, let's do the perfect dinner party. He's like he was like, well, who are we gonna get to do that? And I was like, me. I love to cook, and I have a lot of recipes. And at the time, I just bought a house, and I was like, you know, come to my house. You don't have to pay me.

You're already paying me, and let's knock off a few of these episodes. So we did about 16 of them, and then my boss was like, you know, this is really resonating with people. Like and and it really hit me at that point that I thought, how is this new information for people? Because I had grown up with Martha Stewart and Ina Garten, and I just thought that everybody was watching this. But people at the time on YouTube were just getting into, like, all the beauty gurus, and those girls were now aging up and sort of, like, having their first apartment and getting married. And they weren't suddenly gonna go offline and go look at magazines and books. They were staying online.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah.

Beth Le Manach:

And I think that's where it really resonated. And so long story short, I did that until I started to do it full time, and now the channel is mine, and I just do it full time.

Stephanie Hansen:

It explains lots of things. One, how prescient of you to see this digital age coming. So very smart.

Beth Le Manach:

Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

Two, I always talk about first mover advantage. And whenever there's a new platform or something, I always make sure that I log on. I save my handle. Even if I don't know if I'm gonna use it or do anything with it, I I believe that being the first in a space or in in a being a handful of first in a space is part of what gets you that first mover advantage. So note to self people because there's gonna be a lot of social enterprises that are coming in our future. And then also, like, sometimes the keeping it simple is the best. Like, you just assume that everybody knows how to, you know, make a delicious apparel spritz, but necessarily they don't. So that what you can offer in your most authentic way is, valuable.

And that's, I guess, why you did this as your first book because you seem like you really are taking and packaging a lot of this in a way that feels authentic to you, and that's what people want.

Beth Le Manach:

I think they do. I mean and I think that's what YouTube has really taught me is that there are thousands of chicken Parmesan recipes on YouTube, but people will still ask me, but we want your recipe. Not because my recipe is gonna be better than anybody else's recipe because there's only a couple of ways around making a chicken parm, but because they want my point of view. And I think that that's what makes YouTube so human, and that's why they called it YouTube because it is about you and how you how I prepare chicken parmesan recipe could be different than how you prepare it. And the things that we're gonna highlight could be different based on our own lived experience, and I think that's what makes it really human and really fun.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Your show is also very beautiful. I just started doing a TV show, with Fox here locally, and lighting is so important. And my own YouTube is horribly lit and embarrassing. Yours is incredible.

Like, do you have my normal lights set up?

Beth Le Manach:

No. My gosh. You know what my light setup is now? No lights. The light setup is no lights because I went round and round, and I have, you know, a lot of different experience. Like, I started with the big crew of seven people people that would come, and then I would go back, like, after COVID, and there was no people. And then I had to learn it all myself, and then I moved to France, and I was like, I can't carry all this stuff with me. I have gone back and forth on the lighting, and I always go back to the fact that, like, natural lighting for food is just the best lighting, and then just adjust the camera settings. Like, you're much better off doing that and know which angles of the kitchen give you the best softest light because that you can always reproduce the camera, but you can't always reproduce the exact temperature and light. And, like, that just was making me crazy. So I just decided to finish the lights.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. That is really the tip. Yes. I like it. You mentioned this move to France, and I I you have through the course of your channel and through the course career here. Also, you had a like, it sounded like a rental in France that you made into a full time home.

Beth Le Manach:

Yes. Exactly. So my husband is French, and we had been coming to France every year or so when we were married. And then we took a break when we had kids, and then we started to bring the kids when they were, like, five and two.

Stephanie Hansen:

So you and your husband moved to France, and he's French. Yes. So he's like your Jeffrey.

Beth Le Manach:

Yeah. You could say that. Yeah. He, he he definitely, has inspired me a lot, I think, with the French lifestyle and French cooking. And we would come to France every summer just to vacation, and then we thought, okay. Let's stop renting all these houses. Let's buy a house and then become the renter like, become the person renting. That was a better investment for us.

Beth Le Manach:

And then, I don't know, we just he got to a point in his life where he was like, I see all my friends retiring in France. That's where I wanna be. And I think that's the blessing and the curse of marrying a foreigner. At one point, they're gonna wanna go back, and you just have to be ready for that. So I was always ready for it because I've always loved France, and I just thought, like, that's a fun experience. Yeah. Let's go do that.

Stephanie Hansen:

Do you read David Leibovitz's blog?

Beth Le Manach:

Yes. I do. I love him. Yeah. He's great.

Stephanie Hansen:

I've learned so much. I have, relatives that are from Montreal, which is not France, but they've spent time in France. And Yeah. He just talks a lot about the difficulties of living in France and being an American transplant living in France.

Are there things that you have found that you're just like, oh, I just wish I could get this or something that you're craving to miss?

Beth Le Manach:

Prepared broths and stocks. Like, you know, when you go in The States, you go to the grocery store and you see, like, a million organic chicken broth, beef broth, like, in every brand that takes up practically a whole file. Here, you cannot get that. You can get the cubes where you're making it, but it's like you're wasting a whole cube for two cups of broth, and you may not need the two cups of broth. Like, I love those little one cup ones that we can get in those days. That, we cannot get here. And I I don't know why. A lot of me thinks, like, it just takes up too much space on the shelves, and maybe the little cubes are better, but I do miss that.

Stephanie Hansen:

Do you have that better than bouillon product?

Beth Le Manach:

We don't have that. I have not seen that. Uh-uh. Like, there's a lot of different kinds of these little broth cubes too, and I've been trying all of them. Some of them are horrible, and some of them are okay, but there's nothing like the Swanson's chicken broth. Like, I really kinda miss that. I love that. And Land O'Lakes spread the butter.

Beth Le Manach:

Land O'Lakes butter. Even though we have a million wonderful butters here in France for baking, nothing is quite like the Land O'Lakes salted butter in my opinion.

Stephanie Hansen:

I live in Minnesota, the home of Land O'Lakes, so that makes me real happy. Alright. So entertaining one zero one is about simple, easy ways to start your entertaining life, whether it be like a signature cocktail for mom's brunch or an egg bake for Christmas or, just a simple, like, Friday night dinner party. What are some of your favorite entry points for entertaining?

Beth Le Manach:

Yeah. Well, I think brunch. I think brunch is the beginners, like, home run because there's no fancy roasts that you have to learn how to carve. It's pretty inexpensive because you're not serving a ton of wines and cocktails. It's fairly cheap too because of what you're making. It's eggs and bread and fruit. And it's easy because you can, like, prep in the morning, and then people come at, like, eleven. And it doesn't take the whole night.

Beth Le Manach:

Like, it's not gonna go on for hours and hours. Like, people usually leave around two or three. I just think it's a great entry point for people. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, once you get into the holidays, like the Thanksgiving and the Christmas, you wanna get a few brunches under your belt, maybe a few dinners. I always say start with four, then have six, but don't ever start having 10 guests, which is what Thanksgiving is. So don't start there. Yep.

Beth Le Manach:

Because people usually get themselves so stressed out for entertaining because I think they don't start at the right entry point. And then they never wanna do it again because it was a big mess and, you know, it was so stressful because I think they didn't work their way up to it. You know what I mean?

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. I never thought about that, but that's really a clever way to think about it. I also think too choosing, like, the main dish and then building from there is helpful. Like Yes. I I don't know why I was afraid to cook salmon for forever, but, but, really, roasting a whole side of salmon is a great dish for entertaining.

Beth Le Manach:

Super easy, beautiful, super delicious. Yeah. I I think that people feel like they get sort of stressed out at all of the organization, like, the the timing of it. Because most people don't have, like, restaurant cook experience where everything is timed. So my philosophy is always, like, one or two things, two max that's, like, active cooking, The rest, assembly and the rest, premade. So, like, if you balance out the portfolio of dishes so that they're not all active cooking, it's just gonna make your life so much easier.

Stephanie Hansen:

And so Don't you think too, like, what I always discover with entertaining is people are just so delighted to come, to be invited to something. We don't do this enough.

Beth Le Manach:

We don't do it enough because I think people are afraid of how it's gonna go because maybe they had one or two bad experiences or because, you know, for better or for worse, I'm probably contributing to this, but there is so much food media out there between the blogs and the Instagram and the Pinterest and television and books that, like, it can get very overwhelming. What do you serve and, you know, where do you begin? That I really wanted to create, like, here are the hundred and one recipes that, like, everybody should just know how to make. Like, it's just should be part of your repertoire. Like, get the basics down first and get the ones that you crave. So, like, of course, everybody wants to know how to make a turkey at Thanksgiving or a key lime pie at Easter or barbecue chicken in the summer. Like, these are the things we are all sort of craving perennially. And if you can get those right, then you go to, like, one zero two, which is, you know, the more sophisticated flight files and that kind of thing.

Stephanie Hansen:

Second book, are you already thinking about it?

Beth Le Manach:

Oh my gosh. No. Because I'm still recovering from the first book. You know, you're a good book author. I had no idea how all consuming it is. In a good way. Of it taken. It was a definite two year project, you know, between the testing, the writing, the photography, like, all of it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. What part did you love, and what part did you hate?

Beth Le Manach:

I really love the testing. You know? Like, really taking the time to test each recipe and getting excited about being able to share it, thinking of all of my subscribers that I've had over the years and thinking, oh, this person's gonna love this, and, oh, that person is really this is really gonna help that person. I love that. I love the writing. I didn't think I would love that as much, but I really love that, the stories and the tips and the kind of bringing the recipe to life. As much as I love the results of the photo shoot, that was probably the most exhausting, I think. And to have to then remake all a hundred and one recipes again. And, you know, at that point, it's not just me in the kitchen.

It's a whole team of people and making sure, like, oh, that's not supposed to look like that or, like, oh, that crust shouldn't be like you know? And, like, that I found very taxing. But it was great to see all the photos at the end of the shoot. Like, oh, wow. We did all that.

Stephanie Hansen:

Did you have to cut some recipes, and was that hard to do?

Beth Le Manach:

We didn't I would cut them in the testing. We didn't we we basically shot everything that we planned, so that was great. But there were recipes that I just kept thinking, this is good, but it's too complicated, or this is not delivering on my motto of, like, minimum effort, maximum impact. This is, like, maximum effort from maximum impact, but, like, I didn't wanna go there. I wanted to keep it really easy and accessible for people. So those were the recipes that usually got the pitch.

Stephanie Hansen:

Was it harder? When did you move to France, and was this in the middle?

Beth Le Manach:

Yeah. It was. Of course. That was the craziest thing about it. We did the photo shoot in May, and we moved in June. So as soon as the, like, photo team left at the May, we were like, okay. Let's wrap it up. And we started to just put things in boxes and because I couldn't, like, take the whole house apart because I needed all the props, and I needed a certain amount of furniture and dishes and thing, you know, that I couldn't take.

Beth Le Manach:

So yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

did you move all that stuff? Do you still have it? Because people don't realize, like, when you're styling photos, you know, you need all this stuff that you have.

Beth Le Manach:

You you need all this stuff, and I had a ton of props as we all do. You know, anybody that's in this business has a ton props. And I used them all for the cookbook, but I could not take them all with me to France. It's just it was gonna be too expensive. And I was actually afraid that some of them would break anyway, so I gave them to a lot of the, prop master who was working on the cookbook. Like, she took a a bunch. Everybody on the shoot took some, and we had a fully furnished house here in France that we were renting. So and, of course, every time I come, I would hit a flea market and buy more stuff.

So, like, I just had no more rooms for any more stuff, so I just had to, you know, give away.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. That's it's kinda liberating and kinda freeing, though, in and of itself.

Beth Le Manach:

It is. It is.

Stephanie Hansen:

Who do you look up to for entertaining?

Beth Le Manach:

Oh, you know, all the greats. I love Martha Stewart. I love Ina Garten. I'm trying to think, like, if I there's a couple of substackers that I really love. There's a woman, little Chavita is the name of her substack. I let do you know her? Do you follow her substack? I think yeah. I just I love her sort of effortless elegance. I love things that don't feel overly fussy or feel overly staged.

Beth Le Manach:

Yeah. There's a lot of Instagrammers too that you just see that you're like, oh, yeah. I love that. I don't know. Yeah. I think and my parents, like, I love the way that they entertain, and I've always, like, looked up to their sort of style of entertaining.

Stephanie Hansen:

You mentioned, chicken parm experience, and I just happen to have read a whole thing about an influencer that apparently grabbed some very similar recipes from, some recipe writers and then repackaged them and put them in her book in Australia that's been, like, a multimillion bestseller. And I always worry and wonder about that because it's very hard to make a recipe your own for something like a chicken farm. And I really cooking very basic and presenting very basic recipes that people have been doing for forever and short of, like, saying, you know, I got inspiration or I adapted from. I do wonder if we're getting into this place where the Internet is just full of 6,000 chicken parmesan recipes that are all the same.

Beth Le Manach:

Yeah. I mean, I think what really, sets them apart though is the way you go about it. Like, I can remember a copyright lawyer telling me, like, you can't actually copyright the ingredients, but you can copyright the method. And I think, you know, for anybody who cooks a lot, there is a method that you go about making the recipe that's based on your experience, like the do's and more importantly the don'ts. Like, don't do that because you're gonna have a salvee chicken parm. Make sure you do this because it'll crisp up more. So, like, in my chicken parmesan video on YouTube, I labeled it a little bit different. I think it's something like the six tips to a great chicken parm, and that's just based on my experience.

Like, fry it in a cast iron pan, presalt the chicken so that it's nice and juicy. Once it comes out of the pan, put it on a cooling rack with a, you know, something like a cookie rack so that it doesn't get all soggy. Add a little Parmesan tea. Like so I think that people make very classic recipes their own by adding their own personality and their own little tips and tricks that they've learned along the way to guarantee success. So I feel like, you know, even in the age of AI and everybody's like, oh, you know what? They're only gonna get these recipes from AI. It's like, yeah. But you're not gonna get that human experience of, like, here's what I did that doesn't work. Here's what I've done that works really well.

So I think that's kind of our, you know, competitive edge, I guess, against the robots.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. And the superpower that maybe will separate, finally, the weed from the chaff as it were. Because if we are all then making similarly the same thing, it is how we're doing it and also how we're performing the content because, like, people get interested in you as a human and you as how you do things, and they wanna follow you and your point of view and think you're funny or whatever your superpower is.

Beth Le Manach:

Exactly. And that's why I think video is so powerful because that doesn't always come across on the printed page or with a photograph. But when you are on video and you're spending time, like, building this audience on YouTube, it is a way to connect in a more human way with people. And that also, when they search chicken parm and they see three or four results come up, if they already know you because they've watched your video, they you do feel like a friend to them, and they want your point of view. So I think, you know, it was worth all those years and years of uploads because it does help you, like, ingratiate yourself a little bit more to the audience. You know?

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. And, also, I think if you just this is a weird thing to say, but I've been thinking about this a lot because I have a speech later today, and and I wasn't sure what I was gonna speak about. And my husband's like, oh, are you gonna talk about women in business? I was like, no. I think I'm gonna talk about my regs to not riches story, which is, like, people have all these different experiences. Right? And you're always comparing yourself to other people or trying to measure up or trying to get as many likes or follows or comments. And really what I always keep coming back to is that people just want authentic, friendly, nice people in their kitchen to spend time with them.

Beth Le Manach:

I think so. A %. Especially if it's something that they're a little unsure about, they want the reassurance that, like, it's going to be okay. Like, yeah, we're gonna do it together. You know? Like, I think that that's very reassuring for people.

Stephanie Hansen:

One of the, recipes that I happen to see on your YouTube really just, like, blew my mind, and I think it's based on your French experiences about almond croissants.

Beth Le Manach:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's from the book.

Great. It is in the book. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

I'm obsessed with almond croissants, and what you did was you took day old croissants and then made, like, a beautiful almond filling, and voila, almond croissants. It's it never occurred to me that that would be a way that you could do that without, you know, like, laminating dough and I mean doing all the hard work.

Beth Le Manach:

Yeah. Well, I laughed out loud because I didn't realize, and my husband shared this with me when we were sort of newly married, that almond or croissants were made because that was a way that the bakeries could use up the day old croissants that didn't sell because very few things go to waste in France, especially foods. Then it, like, made perfect sense. Like, oh, of course. So if they're doing that, like, we could be doing that. Yeah. Absolutely. Have, like, the yeah.

We just don't have the day old croissants, but, like, you can do it with fresh if you just split them open and let them dry out while you make the filling, and it's just as good.

Stephanie Hansen:

So you have an event that's coming up at Cooks At Crocus Hill, June Eighth, 4 PM. As we record this, there's only a few tickets left. So by the time it actually airs, you probably won't have the privilege of getting tickets unless you decide to do another night. Is that a possibility?

Beth Le Manach:

We don't know because I have to leave the next day for my next tour. So this is the thing that I yeah. I'm learning about the book tours is you have to be quick about it because it is expensive to go to all these cities.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes. And how many cities

Beth Le Manach:

are you going to on your tour? I'm going to seven.

Stephanie Hansen:

Okay. Okay. That is gonna be great. Yeah. So we are speaking with Beth Lamonic, and she is the author of entertaining one zero one. And you can find her book, recipes every host should know how to make. I thought that was a great subtitle too, by the way. Very clear. Everybody knew exactly what they were gonna be getting from your book. Do you have a Substack too, or how do you want people to follow it?

Beth Le Manach:

Yes. I do. I have a Substack. That would be great. People can follow me there. It's called entertaining with Beth.

Stephanie Hansen:

And how are you enjoying that as a platform?

Beth Le Manach:

I love it. I mean, this is the funny thing is, like, writing the cookbook did introduce me to this, like, other way to create, which is writing. And I think it came at the perfect time because we moved to France around the same time that I was doing more on Substack. So I share the recipes there, which are free. But then if people wanna be part of my paid community, once a month, I do an essay about what it's like living in France. I'm kind of the good, bad, and the ugly, you know, because there is so much material that happens, and that's just been a really fun exercise to share that, just in the written page. And and sometimes I include little videos in it too. So It's been It's always fun too,

Stephanie Hansen:

I think, as creators to have other outlets and more outlets. Yeah. And, you know, I I know people find this hard to believe, but with the exception of, like, in any industry, the top 10% of us are cobbling this together. Right? You're at the end of the year, when you're doing your taxes, you have 52 tiny pots of money that you add up together. Right. And Substat is another tiny pot, but is giving a lot of joy to a lot of people and allowing them to flex in unique and creative ways.

Beth Le Manach:

It is. It absolutely is. And and I think too because if you stay with, like, kinda one medium, like, I've been doing video for so many years, thirteen years video, it gets really tiring, and you start to get a little fatigued by it all. So it kinda jump starts your creativity again to be like, oh, now I'm gonna write some things, and now I'm gonna and then it sort of helps the video because you look at it with fresher eyes.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. I love it. Well, Beth, it's been a delight to speak with you. Thanks for being on the podcast today. Good luck with the tour.

Beth Le Manach:

thanks for having me.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes. Are you on presale right now?

Beth Le Manach:

Yes. We're on presale, and then it goes on sale, for real on June 3.

Stephanie Hansen:

Okay. So we're gonna launch this podcast, I believe, right before the launch. If you can presale, because you guys that listen know presales are super important to cookbook authors, all of those sales that they've generated up on the presale count towards the first day sales, which hopefully, if all things go great, launches them on bestseller list. Right? That's what we're all trying to do. Beth, I think you've got a great shot at it because your book, looks great. I've watched a bunch of your videos, and I'm just glad that you're getting a chance to come to Saint Paul, Minnesota. Cooks Of Crocusil is a great spot. You're gonna have a blast.

Beth Le Manach:

Yes. I hope so. It looks amazing.

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Enjoy your travels. Hopefully, we'll speak again sometime. Sounds good

Stephanie Hansen:

Thanks, Stephanie. Bye.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to another episode of "Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish," the podcast for everyone obsessed with food, cookbooks, and the stories they tell. Today, host Stephanie Hansen sits down with Jenna Helwig —a true powerhouse in the cookbook world. You may know Jenna as the creator of the Cookbookery Collective newsletter

but she's also the food director at Real Simple magazine and a prolific cookbook author herself.

In this conversation, Stephanie and Jenna dive into their mutual love for cookbooks, discuss the enduring charm of print in a digital world, and explore the evolving landscape of cookbook publishing, from celebrity chefs to everyday cooks and influencers.

Jenna shares insights from her career, talks about the resurgence and diversity of cookbooks, and lets us in on what it’s like to balance her editorial roles at Real Simple and her Substack. They chat about memorable cookbooks from childhood, the pressure (and freedom) of home cooking, and the unique joys of discovering new recipes and makers.

Whether you're a cookbook collector, home cook, or just love a good food story, this episode is packed with inspiration, nostalgia, and plenty of practical wisdom. So grab your favorite cookbook, get comfy, and join us for a delicious discussion!

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS:

Stephanie Hansen:

Hello, everybody, and welcome to @DishingwithStephaniesDish, the podcast where we talk to people that are obsessed with food, cookbooks, and all things in the food space. And today, I'm speaking with Jenna Helwig, and I kinda came across her mostly on Substack, which I think maybe will make her be surprised. I found her as the creator of the cookbookery collective cookbook newsletter, and I was like, hey. You're into cookbooks. I'm into cookbooks. Let's talk about cookbooks. And we got the call set up, and then she said, oh, and by the way, I am the food director of Real Simple magazine. And I was like, oh, just that small detail that I literally did not even know about you.

I'm so embarrassed. Welcome to the program.

Jenna Helwig:

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. And I'm thrilled that you found me through the substack because that's a newish thing for me, and I love that, you know, people are reading it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes. And I was so like, I'm just obsessed with cookbooks, and I am a cookbook writer. I'm on my second book that's coming up, and I read a lot about trying to get published and different points of view of cookbooks. And we have quite a few good cookbook authors that hail from the Midwest in the Twin Cities here. And you had, I think, done an interview with my friend Zoe from Zoey Bakes, which probably is how I found out about you.

Jenna Helwig:

That is probably right. Yes. Zoey. Also, I think of Amy Theilan. I know she's not right there, but she's, you know, in the vicinity. Right? So yeah. For sure. And Pinch of Yum, aren't they based in Minneapolis? So yeah.

Jenna Helwig:

They are. A good a good food thing going.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes. And the Food Dolls just published their book. They have, like, 8,000,000 followers.

Jenna Helwig:

Amazing. I guess I've been through that interview. Yeah. And who is that?

Stephanie Hansen:

Sarah Kiefer, do you know her?

Jenna Helwig:

Oh, yes. Of course. Her cookies, baked goods. Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. We are all from, the Twin Cities, and most of them have, like, specialty angles. Like, I am just a home cook, so that's sort of my point of view on the Midwest. But it has been a really great market to be in. And one of the things that I started a radio show about seventeen years ago, so we've talked a lot of these people along the way. And right when we started the radio show, you know, Facebook and Instagram were launching, and it's been such an interesting trajectory to see cookbook authors in particular. And, like, everyone's like, oh, print is dead. Like, magazines are dead.Publications are dead. And yet, you know, cookbooks are, in some respects, doing better than ever.

Jenna Helwig:

Yeah. I agree. I feel like they are thriving. I also feel like, you know, at least for me personally, and I do notice this though with a lot of other people that we are on our screens all the time, and we're kinda tired of it. So whether it's a cookbook or even a print magazine, like, there's just something so lovely about turning pages, just, like, shutting out everything else. No other notifications are popping up on your screen. So print is very special.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. And it feels like you can have, like, personal one on one time with it because you can set your phone down and really immerse yourself in the story.

Jenna Helwig:

Yes. Exactly. We all need more of that.

Stephanie Hansen:

I think so. My food magazines too, you mentioned that you're the food director of Real Simple, and you guys are having your twenty fifth anniversary. Yes. And I literally before you sent me that text, I was, like, reading it. And I'm a subscriber, so I'm gonna hold up my copy here. Because I really I love food print too. I worked in the newspaper business, and I'm kind of a tactile print person also. And you had a really cool feature this month about what's the best takeaway you've ever gotten from Real Simple because you guys are in your 25th birthday. So I thought I'd ask you what your best takeaway is.

Jenna Helwig:

Oh my gosh. That's such a hard question. Alright. I I'm sure it's going to be food related, and I'm kinda gonna cheat and pick something from that month. I worked with Molly Ye on the beautiful birthday cake that's on the cover. And, you know, one of the things she did that I feel like I've used in other in other applications, but never for frosting, was she used instead of food coloring, freeze dried raspberry powder to make the beautiful pink frosting. And I just hadn't done that before, and it was so easy and such a kind of natural way to make something look so lovely.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. That's funny because, yeah, and the cake, it's a it's a lemon poppy seed cake, and then it has like a a raspberry pink frosting on the outside and then raspberry jam on the inside. It really it also gives you a little bit of that raspberry flavor in the frosting, but it's not like super wet like it would be if you used real raspberries or also, like, super overly sweet if you used just jam.

Jenna Helwig:

You know what? That is exactly right because it lends that little bit of tartness to it too, and so it's just such a nicely balanced frosting.

Stephanie Hansen:

So you are a cookbook writer yourself.

Jenna Helwig:

Mhmm.

Stephanie Hansen:

I'm forgetting the name of your books. It's Minute Dinners or Dinner and

Jenna Helwig:

“Bare Minimum Dinners.” The most Bare minimum. Yes. “Bare Minimum Dinners”.

Stephanie Hansen:

I'm all for that. And you've had, a number of cookbooks, I think. Aren't you? Like, you've had a few more of that too.

Jenna Helwig:

Yes. So I've written five books. Three of them were more in the, like, family baby toddler space. I used to be the food editor at Parents Magazine. Sure. And so that was really how I kind of got into cookbook writing. I started with real baby food and then wrote one called baby led feeding. And I will say that is by far my best selling cookbook.

Jenna Helwig:

You know, it's still something we actually did a reissue a couple of years ago, so I did an updated version. It's still something that parents are finding, and that just makes me so happy.

Stephanie Hansen:

My neighbor who just had a baby, she's gonna be two, was obsessed with that book because I just she knows I write cookbooks, and I film a TV show in my house too. So I'm always bringing them food. And when she first had the baby, she showed it to me, and she was like, have you ever heard of this book?

Jenna Helwig:

And it was yours. Oh my gosh. That's amazing. Well, that's so great. I'm I that's a really hard time of life as I you know, just, like, trying to figure out no one really tells you how to feed your baby, which is strange. And so I think anything that I could do to make it just less stressful, that was always my goal with those books.

Stephanie Hansen:

And I think that there's so much to be said about just getting dinner on the table. Like, it's almost a political act these days just to, like, be working, be taking care of your mental health, be worrying about your social time with your kids, your family, your family, aging parents, and then all of a sudden every day someone is supposed to, like, be putting all these elaborate meals on the table, like, sometimes just even surviving a day without the food, and then you have this whole other stressor on top of it.

Jenna Helwig:

I could not agree more. I mean, which is why I thought of bare minimum dinners. Like, it's this idea, and we do this also in real simple. You know, it's very similar. They're like I call fussy the f word. I'm like, nothing fussy, you know, especially when we're talking about recipes in the magazine. Skip the garnish. Like, you know, there's you're not putting on a show for anyone.

You know? Just do what you can. That's really you know? But is it better or good is better than perfect. Done is better than perfect. Just get it done.

Stephanie Hansen:

And some people, like, because they feel like they're trying to live up to something in a Instagram photo, it prevents them from having a dinner party or, making food for a neighbor because maybe it's, like, not good enough. You know, just the sheer act of eating and providing food for your family, whoever your family looks like, or even just for yourself, you are gonna eat better. You're gonna have more control over what you eat. I have eaten at a million restaurants in my life, and I just find that I always feel so much better when I'm cooking at home.

Jenna Helwig:

I agree. I love to go out to eat. However, then if if I do that too much, I'm like, okay. I just need to reset at home. And, you know, I've also noticed that in some cookbooks, there has been this trend towards the food not being overly styled or the author doing that themselves and thinking about, like, Julia Tershen with her last book. You know, she photographed that herself, and the food looks great, but also real.

Like, you could do it. And, also the book Chinese Enough that I just featured in Cookbookery Collective. You know, those recipes just don't feel like nitpicked to death. You know? They're just very natural

Stephanie Hansen:

looking. I feel like we might see more of that. I photographed my own book, but it was simply out of necessity because I didn't have $20 to pay someone. So I said to the publisher, well, if my Instagram's okay, I'm gonna do, like, similar to that. Is that okay? And they were like, sure. Oh, great. As we look at cookbooks as a genre, things have changed a lot because it used to be that you were a professional chef or you were a restaurant chef and you were writing about your restaurant or you were a small group of people that were super experienced in cooking, and maybe you had, you know, 10 books that you were writing in the different genres. You did vegetarian and gluten free and then dairy free.

Now, like, the cookbook space is really kind of being taken up by regular people or influencers in a lot of respects. Does that, open the door for more excitement or is it sometimes do you worry that maybe the books aren't as good? Oh,

Jenna Helwig:

Oh, that's a tough question. I think that anything that gets people cooking is good. So I am you know, if the it is someone without a lot of cooking experience who has a book, but it still excites people to get into the kitchen, fantastic. So that's really my main goal. I do think, you know, where I am in my life, like, I really wanna learn something new from a cookbook. So that's what I personally am looking for, but there are cooks of all different, you know, ability levels and experience levels. So I think that having a variety of cookbooks that can reach everyone where they are is probably the answer.

Stephanie Hansen:

There is so much diversity too in cookbooks now. Like, the no offense to the old beautiful Asian cookbooks that you would get, but, you know, you didn't really feel like you could make a lot of the things out of there because maybe you didn't have the ingredients or you weren't familiar with technique. The the more recent diversity in cookbooks, it feels like you can actually make some of these things.

Jenna Helwig:

Well, I think that's right. Some of the things do feel more accessible. And, also, we just have access to so many more ingredients now, which is amazing. Just even at, like, regular grocery stores. My parents live in Colorado and, like, in the suburbs, and I was, you know, just driving by where I used to live. And there was an H Mart, you know, which I like, my jaw just, like, fell on the floor. There's no H Mart there when I was growing up. So the fact that I could have had access to all of those ingredients, and now the people who live in Broomfield, Colorado do is a miracle.

Stephanie Hansen:

That's so funny because I'm actually reading crying in H Mart right now for my book club, and it's just a delightful memoir about a woman who's experiencing the loss of her mother through the Korean cooking and heritage that she had growing up, and it's really a delightful book. It's so good. When you are thinking of what you wanna write about for your substack, because I'm in some ways, I'm surprised that you still find this topic and this genre interesting after having worked at Real Simple for five years because I've I it's almost like feels like is it too much of the food, but it it really is steeped in you. And how do you pick, like, what you wanna feature on your Substack versus what would maybe be a potential something in the magazine down the road, or is it just all the love and all of the same?

Jenna Helwig:

So I for real simple, you know, obviously, I get to kind of put a lot of myself into there and, you know, kind of direct that coverage, you know, pitch what I think we should cover. But I'm always doing that through the lens of our audience. You know? What and I she's usually a she. You know? What does she want? How much time does she have? What's gonna make make her life easier? So I really hyper focus on that. And a lot of it does kind of mirror my life because I am, you know, kind of similar to the real simple reader, but that's primary. I feel like with the substack, I can just do whatever I want. It's really, like, the books and the authors that speak to the me the most. It's nice to kind of have that, you know, freedom even if it's something that maybe we wouldn't cover in the magazine or might be a little more obscure.

Jenna Helwig:

You know? It's just fun to be able to follow my passions and my interest. And I do love food, and I really love cookbooks. So it's it's funny that I spend even extra time with them, but it really makes me so happy.

Stephanie Hansen:

I am hoping that in substack's evolution that we get more information about who our readers are. Because when you're, like, at a magazine, you know, you have a deep dive in your target market and the radio show, they know exactly who your p ones are. In Substack, you have followers, but you don't exactly know that much about them except basically where they come from.

Jenna Helwig:

That is such a good point, and I'm sure you also know so much more about this than me. I'm still I'm such a newbie. I've been a Substack subscriber for a long time. But now I just, you know, launched this, you know, like, over a month just over a month ago, and so I'm still figuring out all the analytics and everything. But I agree that that would be super helpful just to know more. Like and I'm I've also been thinking, and maybe you've done this. Like, have you done surveys of your audience, your subscribers? Yeah. And, also, like, people don't love to fill them all out.

Jenna Helwig:

I love surveys.

Stephanie Hansen:

See, I do too, but that's probably because we're, like, the publishing types. Right? So I did a survey, and it kind of mirrored what I thought from an age perspective, but I didn't get much more details than that. K. So I think if I was gonna give Substack advice, and maybe they'll ask me someday. Who knows? Mhmm. That it would be to help us understand who those markets are more because it does help you frame who you're writing for. As you look at the the newsletter, are you going to continue to speak to authors? Will you ever do recipes on your own like you've been in that space?

Jenna Helwig:

So I don't think I will do recipes on my own. I feel like, you know, when I have ideas for, new dishes or new, you know, like, stories. I kind of direct those to Real Simple. And I've done a lot you know, I've done all those cookbooks. So I sort of feel like the world maybe doesn't need more recipes from me. You know? I'm I'm very interested in what other people have to say. I think that I love doing these author interviews or just the interviews with other people in the cookbook community. Like, recently interviewed the woman who started Instagram's oldest cookbook club.

And so she was fascinating. Oh, great. Yes. And there was such a good response to that. I'm interested in talking to people in cookbook publishing. So just really kind of anyone in that community. I I think there might be room later for more, like, reported stories.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah.

Jenna Helwig:

You know? That so not interviews, but, like, on a certain topic, like book design or titles or spines. I don't know. But, but I I don't think it's gonna be recipes for me. We'll see.

Stephanie Hansen:

It is interesting. You asked, the woman with the cookbook collection how she organized her collection, and she said by, type of food or genre. But then there's other people that I know that organize it by color.

Jenna Helwig:

I do that.

Stephanie Hansen:

Okay. And and it looks so cool. Like, when you have a huge collection, it just it looks so cool on the shelves. But I was like, oh, that would be so hard because unless you remember the color of the cookbook, how could you find it?

Jenna Helwig:

Yeah. You know, I will say so I live in Brooklyn, New York in a not huge apartment. So I first of all, everything has to look as tidy as possible, and color colors help with that. And I really only have room for about 250 books as opposed to, like, Deborah was saying, she has 2,000 Yeah.

Stephanie Hansen:

It was crazy. Thousand.

Jenna Helwig:

So jealous. But so somehow in my mind, I know what the color is. I don't know how to say it, but I

Stephanie Hansen:

don't know how to catalog it. Purple one.

Jenna Helwig:

Yeah. So if I had more, maybe that wouldn't work.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Well and you okay. So you live in Brooklyn. That is such an amazing food community. Yes. And you just have so many great makers. And I do find a lot of good makers in Real Simple, like people making new artisanal products, and I had a podcast about that for a long time. That is really like, when you feel like you've discovered something that someone turns you onto and it's great, That's, like, one of my favorite discoveries about being involved in the food business, and I feel that way about cookbooks too.

Jenna Helwig:

Absolutely. And I think that when it comes to Real Simple, that's really one of the things that people come to us for. They trust our recommendations, you know, and things that we've discovered. And I feel like that is especially true with our holiday gift guide Yes. Which, you know, is, like, pages and pages every year. We spend months on it, you know, finding things, testing things. And believe it or not, I'm gonna be starting that again soon. But, yes, I I think that that it's such a privilege to be finding these new things and sharing them, and I think we really do get good feedback from them.

Stephanie Hansen:

Do you get to travel a lot around the country? Or

Jenna Helwig:

Yeah. I mean, you know, there are certainly trips that I am taking for like, I went out to Expo West recently. Do you know that? It's a big, huge, like, food trade show in Anaheim and, went and met with a bunch of different brands, saw what was going on, what was new. So I try to take as many opportunities for travel as possible. I really love to just be out and about.

Stephanie Hansen:

Did you run across, at that show two gals? They have a product called Maza Chutney.

Jenna Helwig:

Okay. I was literally just talking to someone about this today. In fact, I was I sent a photo to my executive editor because, yes, I did meet them, and then I was at the Cherry Bomb Jubilee Yes.

Stephanie Hansen:

And they sampled there.

Jenna Helwig:

Days ago. Yes. And they sampled there, and I actually got a couple bottles. I was like, can I take that? And they let me. And so I was just I made some eggs for lunch today, and I put the cilantro chutney on top. It was so good. And I was, yeah, just telling one of my colleagues about it. So funny.

Stephanie Hansen:

I produce culinary markets in the Twin Cities, and they were one of the first makers that I met when I started doing this. And I was just like, oh, those those girls are onto something, and it's a family business. Their story is so great.

Jenna Helwig:

The branding is amazing Yep. And the food tastes great. Are they from there?

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. From the Twin Cities. Wow. They've just developed to, like a lentil spread. That's a like a hummus, but with lentils and also super flavorful and delicious. So watch for that because that's a brand new product line that they just are launching. But, yeah, weird coincidence, but Oh, funny. Yeah.

Great product. When you can you can you remember your actual first cookbook that you got?

Jenna Helwig:

Oh, okay. So I don't I know it was a Betty Crocker, like, cooking or baking for kids book. I am not I think it was baking. I actually was trying to find the cover recently, just, like, Google search, and I couldn't. But I think that's what it was. Do you have one?

Stephanie Hansen:

Well, I mean, I have a few vintage.

Jenna Helwig:

I kinda select Yeah. It wasn't that one because it was for kids book, but I love that. It was like baking for kids or something.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. And then did it have, did it have, like, wiener roll ups in it?

Jenna Helwig:

Oh my god. Maybe. The thing I remember the most were little English muffin pizzas or something like that. I remember my brother and I making those over and over.

Stephanie Hansen:

It I think it also had these, like, clown cupcakes.

Jenna Helwig:

That also sounds familiar. And maybe like cat cupcakes?

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes. Oh, so funny. Every year, we do a cookbook swap, and it's a super fun event. And people come and bring books that they no longer want or use, and we kinda sort them loosely in this huge room. And then we say go, and everybody, like, runs in. And however many books you bought or brought, you get to roughly take the same amount out, but you don't have to. But it's been fascinating, the books that people bring. And, I mean, I there's, like, a New York Times 1973 edition that has this recipe in it that's only in that book that's for a lamb ragu.

Stephanie Hansen:

And every year, I see that book come by, and I, like, pick the woman who's probably, like, twenty, twenty four. And I like press this book into her hands and I'm like, you need to have this book and you need to make the recipe on page one twenty one. And it's like three times it's happened and then they'll email me and they're like, I would have never found that recipe without you. It's such a great fun event.

Jenna Helwig:

That sounds wonderful. I love that idea.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. It is really fun, and we get a lot of, like, boxes of people's recipe cards that were, like, someone's grandma's. And my radio partner and I always sort of move that stuff to the side, And then we keep it for a year and, like, go through it and look at it, and then we bring it back the next year. We've been doing this for, like, ten years. So it's been so fun to see what, like, really are in people's collections and what they get rid of. And, I mean, how many peanut butter blossom recipes there are in the world.

Jenna Helwig:

You know what? The world needs more peanut butter blossoms. Delicious.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Always delicious and always tasty. Well, it has been super fun to chat with you. I want people to follow your Substack. It is the Cookbookery Collective Cookbook newsletter, and we are with Jenna Helwig. And I'm just really appreciative for your time today. Congratulations on your twenty fifth anniversary with Real Simple. That's fun too.

Jenna Helwig:

Thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure to talk to you.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes. Absolutely. Thanks, Jenna. Mhmm. Bye bye.

Jenna Helwig:

Bye.

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Welcome to another exciting episode of "Dishing with Stephanies Dish." In this episode, I am joined by my fellow travel enthusiast, Michael Kenney from Defined Destinations, as we dive into the world of adventurous group travel. Fresh from their trips to Croatia and Asia, they're setting their sights on a new journey to Sicily, Italy. Whether you're a seasoned traveler or a wanderlust-driven explorer, you'll discover the unique experiences that Sicily promises, from breathtaking historic cities to mesmerizing volcanoes and, of course, delectable Italian cuisine.

Join Stephanie and the Michaels for a delightful conversation about the joys of traveling with a group, the thrill of meeting new people, and the authentic charm that awaits in Sicily. Whether you're considering joining their next adventure or simply living vicariously through their tales, this episode offers a captivating glimpse into the magic of defined destinations. Let the journey begin!

Stephanie Hansen:

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the podcast, Dishing with Stephanie's Dish. I hope you're doing great today. I am here with my friend, Michael Kenney, and Michael and I have been traveling together a couple years now. Right, Michael?

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. We've had, two trips under our belt. So it's, a trip to Croatia and, just recently that Cambodia Vietnam trip. So we've been we've been putting some miles down, Stephanie.

Stephanie Hansen:

I actually actually was somewhere last night and ran into someone from our trip, and we were comparing our bracelets from when we met the Buddhist monk because both of us still have ours on. Yes.

Michael Kenney:

Mine, like, just kinda fell apart.

Stephanie Hansen:

It was such a Oh,

Michael Kenney:

I woke up in the sun.

Stephanie Hansen:

Trip. Yes. I'm I'm gonna keep it on as long as I can. It was such a life changing trip. Asia was somewhere that I'd always wanted to go and really didn't have the confidence to do it by myself. So you gave me confidence. Going with other people gave me confidence, and we ended up having such a great time. Pretty good.

Stephanie Hansen:

I have had another great trip with you. We went to Croatia, and that was an awesome trip. We were on kind of like an exclusive private yacht with, Stan, our tour guide, who was probably one of the best tour guides ever.

Michael Kenney:

For sure.

Stephanie Hansen:

And you're going back there to Croatia this summer, aren't you?

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. Personally, I'm not. I'm gonna have somebody else. I'm a little envious because, yeah, that that trip was straight out of a dream. And, you and your, listeners, followers, they were so much fun.

Stephanie Hansen:

So Yeah. We did have a good time.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. It was great.

Stephanie Hansen:

So I wanted to podcast with you because people ask me all the time about these trips and, like, how it works and what we do and, you know, like, are you, like, checking people's passports? I'm like, no. Silly. I'm not. But we have a trip coming up to Sicily, a taste of Sicily, which you have so sweetly on your your background there. That's smart. October 14 through the twenty second. And our final payments, I think, are due in June. So we're kind of in the hunt for getting everybody signed up and confirmed.

And I wanted to talk with you. I've been to Italy a lot, actually, but I've never been to Sicily. So I'm excited about what that area is gonna be like and you've been. So I thought, alright. Let's just talk a little bit about this and get to know a little bit about how these trips work. So, I like to do trips with people because I like to travel with others. And people always ask me, well, are they food trips? Yes. They are food.

Like, we eat food. We enjoy food. We talk about food, but it isn't, like, exclusively a food trip. We know that when you're going to some of these historic destinations that you also wanna see some of the beautiful sites. So we try to mix in some food things like special tastings, special wine events, or special dinners, but we also wanna give you some time to explore the region on your own so that you can go to the restaurants that really appeal to you. And, you know, when you're going with the group, sometimes it's not easy to go to some of these really exclusive special places because you have a larger group. Our group on a trip like this would be, what, would you say, like, less than, like, 26 probably?

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. It this group size will be anywhere from 20 to 30 maximum on this trip. So it's a real nice, you know, size group for sure.

Stephanie Hansen:

And you've been to Sicily before. When was the last time you went?

Michael Kenney:

I was with a group two years ago in Sicily. So I've been there three other times. So just most recently, just two years ago.

Stephanie Hansen:

And you and I like, I kinda gave you my short list of places. And you asked me about Sicily, and I was like, oh, well, I don't know. I've never really thought about that. And you were like, oh my gosh. It's one of your favorite places in Italy. So tell me what it is that you love about Sicily in particular.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. No. That that that's a great question. You already mentioned you've been to Italy several times, and we get a lot of people that have been to Italy. And they're like, alright. I've already done that. Or maybe you haven't, you know, seen the the Colosseum and Venice and things like that. Sicily is is Italian, but it's an island in the middle of the Mediterranean.

Michael Kenney:

So it's just it's it's it's similar, but it's different. I think everything is elevated. Their food, their sites. I mean, the history has a whole Greek, northern the Arabs. It's a Spanish influence in Normans. They've all kinda come to this island in the middle of the the Mediterranean and put, like, their best foods, their their best everything. And it's kinda mixes and makes a Sicilian dish, which is really cool. So it's it's similar, yes, with their pastas and things like that in Mainland Europe, but it's it's a different notch.

Michael Kenney:

I think it's above, regular standard Italian food. It's just the flavors, the the spices, everything like that is just it's so good. And that's just the food side of it. And then, of course, I already mentioned with with the Greeks in the Spanish and the Normans, they have their own architectures that they brought, a mix of different languages. So you really feel like you're in a whole another country. It says in Italy, but the Sicilians say we're Sicilian first, then we're Italian.

Stephanie Hansen:

That's funny.

Michael Kenney:

So it's it's really so different, of an experience on that end. And I even have, a couple of friends going on this trip, and they've never been to Europe before. And they're saying, hey. We're we're gonna join you on this trip because it sounds lovely, but we've never been to Europe. We've never seen the Colosseum, things like that. Like, is this a good trip for us to take? I go, for sure it is. I mean, you don't have these, you know, the Leaning Tower Of Pisa, but once you get get to these places, you'll say, oh my gosh. I mean, a church that's, a thousand years old, or the little villages that are, you know, 500 years old and just oozing with this with charm.

So you're really, having this real great Italian Sicilian experience, but maybe not knowing the sites, but it'll kinda resonate even better when you come back and tell your stories. It's just a beautiful, beautiful trip.

Stephanie Hansen:

And I think, you know, I've been to Rome. I've been to a lot of the little Italian islands on sailing trips with my husband. And we've been to Naples. We've been to Venice. We've been all over, really. And each of Italy has its own uniqueness, but the islands themselves are just something different because you really did get a lot of influences of people coming through and the trading that happened. And they also weren't as involved in the wars because they were sort of moving to the mainland. So you get a lot of different preservation possibilities, and the culture just held up because they weren't impacted by the wars in the same way.

Michael Kenney:

Exactly. And I think even early on, Sicilians were were very poor as well. So a lot of things just really, held. So they didn't, you know, knock down buildings and build new skyscrapers, things like that. It's like you're being, on the set of The Godfather, which was filmed there too, part of it at least. And, it was, like, set in time, and you're going there and just really experiencing the the feel, the taste, the smell, even you could call, like, the grit of, like, Palermo. I mean, it has this edge to it in a sense, like, this is a real living city. It sound like all spruced up to be perfect, like, on a set, but that's what makes it so so fantastic.

It it's it's real. And I don't think you always get that experience that you're in in Central Rome, and they they, you know, it's all beautiful up. Again Palermo and all these cities that will visit are extremely beautiful but it has it's just a different edge to it and every group that I've ever been there with Stephanie if they've come back and said wow this is a dream. Not just the food, the sites, the experiences, the people. The people are real. They're they're fabulous. So it's it's a real real, just an amazing immersion, if you will, to Sicily.

Stephanie Hansen:

One of the things that people ask me about too, and I'll be honest with you. I'm not really, like, someone that you would think of as a group traveler. I like a certain amount of, alone time. I don't love to have every single thing coordinated for me. My husband, as you know, is a big adventurer and explorer. He's always the first one to do anything crazy on these trips. But it having a group is it's so nice when it's a smaller group like this because you do get to meet new people. You do get to create a community amongst your travelers.

And I'll tell you, my friend Laurie Bargini that went on our Asia trip with us, she was very she's a big traveler too, and she was like, I don't know about this group thing. I was like, just give it a try. Like, Asia's a good one to test it out because it's probably a destination you wouldn't go alone. And she signed up right away for Sicily. She was like, I loved the group elements because when I wanted to, I had a group of friends and it was fun and we could hang out together and do fun things, but also when I wanted to be alone, I could do that too. It she thought it added a whole another layer to the travel experience than you just get either with you and your spouse or you and your friends because you have this whole other dynamic of people that for the most part is pretty great.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. I know. And I and that's great. And Laurie was great. I'm glad she signed up because on the flight back from Asia, she sat next to me on the flight, and that's a seventeen hour flight. And if she wants to go back, then that that that's great.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. It's good. Well, you know she talked to you the whole time probably.

Michael Kenney:

No. I tried to again, maybe it's like the group element. You know, have time on, time off. So I'm glad that was brought up. And I've been doing group tours for twenty eight years now, which I I I can't believe. And I I first started getting into tourism because I wanted to see sites. I'm like, I know I can't pay for it, so I need to be a tour guide and and going from that. I didn't realize the whole experience and having shared experiences with others was gonna be my highlight.

And to this day, that's my favorite part is going to meet people that I've never met before and going having these shared experiences with. And and sometimes, you know, you build friends for a lifetime off of that.

Michael Kinney:

I think especially our last group too, we we really, built that with several of the the travelers, which is great. So and I so if you're hesitant, like, well, I'd like to this trip sounds great or any of our trips, but I am kind of worried about that. We really try to balance all our tours out. It's it's it's imperative that we have that balance of, some of the group time to have these, shared experiences to leisure time so that you can go and have your own adventures. And that is so crucial to all of our trips. That's why our hotels, and we can talk about that later, are centrally located. So once we go out and do, say, our city tour, our our our food tour in Palermo and walking around, you'll have, like, the remainder of the day to go explore on your own or some of those new friends that you met. Maybe you can go out and have a glass of wine with them.

But again, it's all about that balance. And we each and every itinerary that we put together, we really work on making sure we have that balance in in the trips itself. Because I think that is the success of it. So we don't pack the days all day long on, like, seeing this, this, and this. We give you the nice highlights, and we'll have some other fun inclusions. But again, each place that we go to centrally located hotels, we have that free time too. So you can do your own thing or jump on with a group that you've met and have cocktails, Aperol spritzes in the main, Piazza later on. So it it's so fun, but it it really comes back.

You register for a trip, but you don't know you're gonna meet some great people. And at at the end of the trip, it's typically these, these people and these, shared experiences come back, and that's where the meaning of the the trip comes in. It's so it's it's so much fun to see them build together.

Stephanie Hansen:

On each of the trips that I've done with you, we've had solo travelers

Michael Kenney:

Mhmm.

Stephanie Hansen:

Which I think people are like, oh, you know, I don't know. I don't have a partner to go with or my friend can't go. And that to me has also been super fun, like the solo travelers and the friends that they've made. And, like, one of the gals I saw from our Asia trip, I saw our friend Annie last night, and she was a solo traveler. Ended up pairing up with Laurie in a room and sharing, actually, actually, which a lot of solo travelers don't wanna share. I get that. But in this case, they both did, and they are like fast friends.

Michael Kenney:

That I mean, that's that's so much fun to see that. First off, if, you know, we all have it like your maybe your husband or wife or friend they don't want to go but you're like interested in this trip. We get that on all of our trips and we specifically specifically have, several single rooms set aside for those, adventure traveler seekers to have that. So you can pick your own room and go as a single or maybe you want us to to pair you up. We can do that too and get you in contact with another solo traveler like lorian annie did and that typically works out really well too but it's it's I think the like minded people looking for adventures you'll never feel like you're by yourself on any of our trips So, like, oh, I'm a third wheel. Never ever ever. And sometimes that's the best way to travel because you don't have to make sure your traveling partner is having a great time. You only can worry about yourself.

Hey. I'm gonna have a great time. And, you know, all of our trip travelers that I've I've ever heard from, they've had a great time going solo, and they meet these like minded people. And, again, all of a sudden, they have friends for a lifetime, like, you know, Lori and Annie did. So if you're you're even thinking about it, like, I'm solo and I'm a little skeptical about going by myself, give us a call. Send us an email. We we can get you your own, room, single, room. They are filling up quick, though.

We have a few left, or we can pair you up with somebody too to share that single supplement. But, again, you'll never feel like a third wheel with any of our tours. And this, in addition, just works really, really well for single travelers, and you'll meet some probably good friends on it.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. And, also, like, ladies, some of you I know, like, getting coming out of relationships or divorce, you wanna do something unique. I have someone in my family who are shall remain nameless, who's gonna be joining us, who wanted to get back to Europe, but she's just not in a relationship status that would work for that as the way she thought it was gonna be. So I was like, come with us. Like, we're gonna have a ball. There's men. There's women. You know, my husband has come on some trips, but others, he hasn't.

And Mhmm. It's just there's a great mix of people.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. No. It it it it's great. Now this isn't a singles trip, but maybe you can find Giuseppe at the local cafe. You never know. So you never know. So anyway, yeah, it it works great for whatever status you are in life, single, you know, whatever. It these really, really work really nice.

And sometimes, like, my brother came, and we shared a room on our the last trip, and he just wanted to kind of have a experience and get away from, you know, what's going on in life over here and just do a reset. And he came back and said, I'm really recharged. And he's kinda like going into he's retired, and he wants to do something else in his, you know, second part of his life. And he he's going after something right now because he he was able to kinda just disconnect Yeah. And then just take it all in and then kinda come back and, like, let's go. So regardless from relationships to job hunting or whatever, sometimes these trips are great. Even if you go solo, that could even be better.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Just to get a reset.

Can you give us, like, without, like, going into all the detail, like, a high level, not day by day, but just, like, what are the towns we're gonna visit? What are because we're gonna be in, I think, three different areas.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. Correct. So if you if you go on our, at definedestinations.com and look at, taste of Sicily Twenty Twenty Five, you can find the day by day, itinerary on that, and you'll get to be able to see through it. But again, it reads like a brochure, and you go through each item. And everything that we mentioned on that, it's, it is included. But the neat thing is we go from the North to the South and then all the way over to the, the East side of the island. So you're really having a great feel for the entire island itself. And, we have three nights in Palermo, and then we have one night in Agrigento, which is at the very southern on the beach, our hotel's right on the beach.

You can walk right down there. And even October mid October is a great time to go too because the temperatures are, like, mid seventies, so it's super comfortable. And the water temperature is still pretty nice if you want to jump in. And then we have three nights in Siracoosa. So we we have these, like, kind of, hub and spoke places that we we do our adventures from the but we always come back to our centrally located place. So, anyway, we'll we'll find the Palermo. We have a connection. If you do our included flights, there's no, direct flights from from Minneapolis into Sicily.

So we have a connection, on that.

Stephanie Hansen:

And let me just touch on that because some people want to work with the travel agent to have all of the flight things arranged for them, and that is an option with you. But you also do have options where people can meet you at the destination. So, like, for me, we have a lot of miles that we're always trying to burn up. Yeah. So for us, we book our own airfare so that we can use our miles, and then we sometimes add a few days on at the end, or we might even go to a different destination. With your group travel plans, both of those options are available to people.

Michael Kenney:

A %. I'm glad you asked that too because, yes, there's people that have miles or if they only wanna stay exclusively with Delta or United or whatever, that's fine. Our trips truly begin and end at at the hotels. With that, we do offer an included group package you can jump on, but the whole group will not be on that flight for sure. It's just an option to do that. And my my team can also, get you, flights separate from that too if you wanted to come early like you said, Stephanie, or stay light. Hey. I wanna go see the Colosseum on this trip.

Great. My team can put a pre tour, post tour package together if you want to do that. Or even if you don't want any of our help, that's fine. You can just book our land only. You'll be able to see our group flight numbers on there too so you can kinda coordinate that. But the great thing is that both, airports, in Palermo we fly into, and then we fly out of Catania. They're close to both, towns, so you can easily take an Uber. So it's really pretty easy to get to and from, and that's where the, the the the tour start from.

So if you're hesitant, hey. I need to book the group air. Don't worry about that. You don't have to do that by any means. We're happy to help you, on all the other aspects too to to get the airfare, with that. So, yep, we fly into Palermo. We'll settle into our our our three, our centrally located hotel, which is fabulous. Again, remind me that we need to touch on the the hotels too a little bit.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yep.

Michael Kenney:

But it's right in the center. We'll do a food tour of one of the local markets. Again, like you mentioned, maybe we have some guests on the trip that could care less about food or wine tastings. It's just a a piece of of our trip. So even if you're, a modest food lover or you only like cornflakes, there's gonna be some fun things to do on this as well. And we find that, you learn a lot about the culture through the food. Yeah. That's the reason we we do part of that too.

So it'll be fun regardless. You're going through the markets. You're learning about the foods. Things like that. We go to, the the Cathedral Of Monreali, which, hey. We're seeing another church. We typically don't always do that, but this is really specific. This church is beautiful.

It's got, it's it's a massive church built in the twelfth century, and they're famous for all its mosaics. The whole interior, the churches, all these fine mosaics they did almost a thousand years ago. It's unreal. So it's beautiful that we'll be doing that. We'll go to Cefalu, a little, seaside village, which is outside of Palermo a little ways. Maybe you've seen White Lotus. Part of that was filmed there or all parts of the, that, season two was filmed in Sicily. So we'll have a lot of White Lotus moments, as well on that, which which will be a lot of fun.

And then from there, we'll be driving after our three nights in, in Palermo. We'll be heading south, crossing the entire, island itself. Absolutely beautiful. Even our coach rides, which aren't a lot, that they're just stunning. And and enjoying the countryside is absolutely beautiful. And we'll be going to that's where Agrigento is, and it feels like you're being stuck in Greece. Like, wow. There's all these Greek ruins, you know, two, three thousand years old.

It's like, this is unbelievable. They have some of the better Greek ruins even outside of Athens, which is amazing. So walking through Agrigento, experiencing that, seeing that during the sunset, it's it's it's magical. I use that word a lot, but I think the whole trip really is. And then we we we settle into our hotel right on the beach, which is lovely. And then from there, we'll be going over to Siracusa, which is one of my favorite places ever. My first time I went to Sicily, we didn't go there. And I went back and I said, how do we skip that the first time? Siracoosa is, it's unbelievable.

And you've agreed too. We we're staying right in they called it Ortega. That's like the old city of Siracusa. And we're staying right inside the city wall. So our bus will drop our private bus for our group will drop us off, and then we have to walk about ten minutes to our hotel, which is on a small little alleyway. And we'll talk about that later on. But it's a great location that we'll be doing, having different experiences, seeing all the the ruins, walking around at night. It's just beautiful.

And from there, we'll be out we'll also be going to see Mount Etna, which is still an active volcano. We'll be on the sides of it. It's unbelievable. All of a sudden, you feel like you're being transported onto the moon. You see the vents and things like that. It's beautiful. And they grow some amazing wines there too on the slopes of it, and we'll be tasting some of those.

Stephanie Hansen:

That's so cool.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. It's it's it's it really is pretty cool, because of that that rich soil just offers great Sicilian wines and the dry and the the elevation. So it it culminates to be really, really good. So, work on your Sicilian, reds. They're they're quite good.

Stephanie Hansen:

It will be exciting. Yeah.

Michael Kenney:

No. It it it's great. So I mean, it's it's seven, nights, a nine day trip, in Sicily. You'll have a real good flavor of the city, of all the areas that we visit. So it's it's quite nice. And if you go on the, the website, you'll see all the the inclusions as well. So we include mostly everything that we've talked about. There's really, we don't include all the meals because we want some experiences, for yourself too to go out and go, hey.

Michael Kenney:

We're gonna go to this little restaurant or whatever. Mhmm. And we have a local guide with us the entire time that will really help, talk about the history, and, you know, what's going on with the people itself, but then just pointing out great restaurants and other little experiences you can do

Stephanie Hansen:

during the free And that's I love that because when we go to some of these places, like, I think I told you my husband is, he's kind of an you know, he's in venture. He always wants to do his own thing. So if we land in a place, he's like, okay. We're gonna take off. We're gonna go do this. We're gonna do that. And, you know, we try to balance, like, doing the group things with also him having his best life and doing some unique, food experiences just on our own. So every everybody gets a little bit of everything.

It's a real delightful mix. You've been to Sicily. Now I think this will be, you said, your third time, fourth time?

Michael Kenney:

Fourth time.

Stephanie Hansen:

I'm so impressed that you're coming.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. I'd well, I can't miss with your groups too. I can't go on all our trips, but this is definitely one I I, notched away because I think, part of me still is in Sicily. There's there's just something about it, and you can't you know, I've been to other parts of Italy plenty of times, and I feel like I'm an Italian, but, there's just something with Sicily. Maybe I meant I meant the grit. I've talked about that. It feels like a real city, real sites, real food, just from the the different markets, the fish markets is just everything seems really authentic.

Stephanie Hansen:

I love it.

Michael Kenney:

That's what I really, really love, and I think the guests do too. I'm I'm just envisioning myself walking and through Palermo with my last group, and there was, like, there was music being played in the streets, and people are sitting down and having glasses of wine. There was no festival going on. It was just this this zest for life that

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. The Italians just in general, they stay up late. They eat late. So they have, like, a happy hour kind of at, like, six to seven, and then they go home and get ready to go out for the dinner time in a lot of cases. So they spend a lot of time outdoors, and they like to do it when it's not in the blazing hot sun. So things really there's a great nightlife. People are, out and about into all hours of the evening, which is fun. So I'm just super excited.

So if people wanna join us, you said I mean, I know we've got some rooms booked already. Yeah. So are there some rooms left if people wanna book, and what is the timeline that they should be doing that, and how do they do it?

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. That's a great question. So I said we have about we can handle maximum of 30 people. So we have about seven rooms up, so about 14 people. So if someone calls and say, well, will this be booked up by next week? It probably won't be, but I always tell people, go ahead, put your deposit down, hold the seat on the trip itself. And you just have to go to definedestinations.com. You can book everything right then then and there. It's super simple process.

You just put your your information in. You don't need a valid passport right now to to enter that in. But you just go ahead and you fill that out, put your deposit down, at least then you'll you'll have a, a seat held for you. Then you can work on if you wanna get your own air fryer or if you wanna stay earlier, you know, stay after later on the trip itself. You you can do that all right there as well. So it's pretty simple.

Stephanie Hansen:

And then once you're booked and we know who's coming, we usually try to have a call to kinda give everybody the particulars of that trip. Sometimes depending on our time frame, we try to get together in person. I wasn't able for the last one because I had so many things coming, and I'm not sure what'll happen with this one because I've got the cookbook coming out, in September. But one way or another, we will see each other's faces, and we will get on that plane, and we will arrive together and have a blast. So I'm looking forward to it, and we've got other trips planned. I know we're trying to book another Croatia trip possibly for the following year for the fall and something in the spring. So if you guys have any destinations you wanna check out with me, let me know. I'm always looking for new places to go. You just went to the Galapagos. It sounded like it was amazing.

Michael Kenney:

Yeah. It that that was, fabulous. I was just doing a site inspection because we're looking about having groups go to the Galapagos and the Amazon, and it it was it was unreal. I loved it. Completely different experience from going to, to going to Sicily. Well, that's great. There's so many experiences to have on our on the world, and we only have so much time to be able to do those. So you gotta kinda hit that hierarchy of, you know, what's what's important.

For anybody that's just thinking about it or if this is the first time you've ever even heard of Sicily, please take a look at this because it is really a magical trip, and we have so many fun inclusions. Our hotel locations are in the city center. I wanted to mention that, not, just because we're on tiny little streets. So you mentioned, like, the the nightlife. It's we're not on a bustling street where all the cars are going by. It's like you feel like you're a local. You'll go out the door, and there's mama Rosita across the street, you know, cutting her

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. Sitting outside. Yes.

Michael Kenney:

That's the experience we want, not just on this trip, all of our trips. We want you to feel like you're kind of a, a local for even three nights when we're there, so you'll know where the the nearest bakery is and, the restaurants. And I think you'll have that on this trip. I it's it's really

Stephanie Hansen:

I love it.

Michael Kenney:

Something else with all our hotels. You'll absolutely love that. We know exactly where to stay, and sometimes that's overwhelming when you're looking at doing a trip in your own, like, where should I go? What should I where should I stay? Like, it's overwhelming. We want this to be just book the trip. We're gonna be taking care of all the highlights for you.

Stephanie Hansen:

Pack your bags and come along. Yes.

Michael Kenney:

Exactly. So that's that's what's really important to us. And I

Stephanie Hansen:

think I'm looking forward to it. It's gonna be awesome. I'm gonna release this podcast, not this Friday, but next Friday. So k. Between now and then, you guys, I hope you get your seats booked, and I hope to see you on this amazing trip. Thanks, Michael.

Michael Kenney:

Wonderful. Thanks, Michael.

Stephanie Hansen:

It was awesome. It's defined destinations. You can find them at defineddestinations.com. Taste of Italy is right on the front page. Click that, and you can see all the itinerary of the whole trip. And we're gonna have a great time.

Michael Kenney:

Taste of Sicily.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yes. The taste

Michael Kenney:

of Sicily.

Stephanie Hansen:

Oh, what did I call it? What did I say? Taste of

Michael Kenney:

Italy. We have one of those too. Oh, okay. The Sicily one.

Stephanie Hansen:

Taste of Sicily specifically. Yes. And then if you like Italy, you can go back because there are a lot of places to go back to. Amalfi Coast is great, but it's different. And, like, I there I've been to a lot of different places in Italy, and they're all a little bit different. And I like them all for different reasons. So I'm really excited to explore Sicily.

Michael Kenney:

Yep. It's gonna be great. Well, thanks so much for the time.

Stephanie Hansen:

Yeah. We'll talk soon.

Michael Kenney:

Yep.

Stephanie Hansen:

Bye. Bye bye.

Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

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Follow Rachael White's Blog at https://www.setthetablephotography.com/

or follow her on Instagram @setthetablephotography

Watch the episode of "Taste Buds With Stephanie" that Rachael styled

Get the @FoodDolls cookbook "Pretty Delicious"

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe

Join me for my next live video on the Substack app.

Live Video and Recipes will eventually be paywalled as a perk for Subscribers so join me now

Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscribers

Get the Recipe we made:

GRANDMA BEA’S DILLY CRACKERS

Serves 8

Ingredients

(2) 12 oz packages of oyster crackers

1 package Hidden Valley Ranch Original Dressing Mix

Or alternately

2 Tbsp Dried Dill

1/3 cup fresh dill minced

4 Tbsp garlic powder

1 tsp black pepper

2 tsp fine sea salt

2/3 cup olive oil

Instructions

Preheat oven to 250

Put all dressing ingredients in a 3 qt Jumbo plastic Ziploc Bag and shake

Distribute crackers evenly on two large baking sheets covered in foil

Bake for 20 minutes

Shake pans to redistribute crackers

Turn oven off but leave pans in the oven for 15 more minutes so crackers have more time to lightly brown.

Crackers will keep in an airtight container for about 30 days.

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This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe

Join me for my next live video in the app

Let's get into it. I've never done a live on Substack before, but I thought it would be fun and I've been wanting to do them more.

So I'm going to just tell you about a few things that I got today.

I went to Surdyks and it had been a while since I'd been there and I was glad to revisit them - on their 90th Anniversary!

They are a local store in Minneapolis and I am a big fan and I bought some things

that I wanted to tell you about.

The first one is a product that is made in Minnesota.

It's called Pommeau and it is from Milk and Honey.

And it is the most delicious like honey apple Brandy liqueur.

And what I do with it is I will pair it with whiskey or with rum.

So I might have like an ounce and a half of whiskey or an ounce and a half of rum

and then an ounce of this and I have it on the rocks and

And it's just a delightful after-dinnery type drink.

So milk and honey, I was out of it.

I was happy to see it was back on the stores.

Here is a new product that I'm excited about.

I got it because it's from Vietnam and I was just there, fun!

Song Cai the name of the gin.

They had three different kinds of these Vietnamese gins at Surdyks

And I happened to chat with one of the folks there and they said this one was their favorite.

So I have not tried it yet, but can you see how pretty the bottle is inside it?

It just looks amazing.

So I'm going to go ahead and give this a try.

I think I'll, it's floral gins are kind of good with tonic or with club soda.

So I'm excited about trying that.

I will report back.

Something that is not alcohol, but I do have two of those left too.

It is Ryze Mushroom Coffee

This is something that I'm nervous about.

Now they say that mushrooms are super good for you.

And I absolutely believe that, but

Could this product replace like my love of coffee or is it just like another thing

to give you more of a wellness supplement?

There's 2000 milligrams of mushrooms in here, which is a lot.

So what you do with it,

and I haven't done it yet,

is you apparently take a tablespoon of this and then eight to 10 ounces of hot or

cold water and you can ice it if you want to or hot.

from 9-11 on MyTalk 107.1 and Ill chat about it with Stephanie March

So I'm going to do this in the morning tomorrow before my radio show.

It's called Ryse and there's 30 servings in here.

It's from Massachusetts and there's 15 calories in a tablespoon.So it's low cal, which is fine, but we'll have to see how I feel about the mushroom coffee.

Okay.

Also,

I got this at Christmas time and Beauty Counter was, all the rage

and I don't know all the things that happened,

but it was like a woman started the company and then she enlisted all these people

to sell it and it was a great product.

Then someone bought it like an investment company and apparently trashed the company,

This product in particular is a Beauty Counter Hydrating Body lotion and it's

but somehow it's back.

This product in particular is a hydrating lotion.

Okay, at Surdyks today, they had a wine that is from Croatia.

It is called Plavac Bura.

It is made with Plavac Mali grapes.

It is called Plavac Bura.

And it is a very delicious red table wine.

And I also noticed it at my friend Leslie's place, Sip Better Wines

I got this at Surdyks - I have noticed this at Total Wine too.

This is like a $19 bottle of wine and it is fantastic for the value.

It is Croatian.

You'll find it kind of in the weird section where sometimes the best wines are.

But I would like you guys to try this.

I just love this wine.

Another wine and  I have only found this at Surdyks before.

I'm going to be bringing it to a party tomorrow.

a,

drier fruitier kind of bubbly effervescent type of white,

that's not like full on champagne.

It's not probably like that, but just has a tiny bubble.

A Gruner Vertliner is a good wine for you to try.

And this is from Austria, Weingut Brundlmayer

I really like the wines that they have from Austria at Surdyks

But when I hear about organics, it makes me happy.

So this is something that you would have with like a fish,

Or if you're someone that likes a Sauvignon Blanc,

but you just want to try something a little bit different,

I'd highly recommend this.

And then last but not least, La Croix.

Okay, right.

Everybody loves a good La Croix.

I don't really love like the weird little flavors of some of these soda things,

but I do like this Limoncello La Croix.

It has like a vanilla taste almost to it and a little hint of lemon.

It is still no calorie, so it's nothing, but it has some weird sweetener stuff in it.

Let's face facts.

They put chemicals in these things.

I don't know why, but it tastes good.

So this is the LaCroix.

What I like to do actually,

and that's here,

is I take one of these cans and a plain can so that it tempers down the flavoring a

little bit, but it still tastes good.

And then last but not least, I was on Jason's show today and this darling couple.

I ran out of there because I had a meeting.

And when I came back, they had left this on my bag of my Jason show things.

And it is says taste buds on there.

It is adorable, a little embroidered tea towel.

As you know, I did a textile, a class at textile center and it was super fun.

They have really great classes there.

If you are a Minnesota person and you want to

get your needling skills going.

So you guys, that's it.

My first live on Substack.

I would like to do more.

I'm also considering like maybe another format where I talk with someone else.

But if this is something that you liked or you would like to see more of,

I could even do like cooking things that are live.

I just decided I would try it today since I had the good hair and I was alone with

just little Stanley here tonight.

For dinner,

we're going to be having the spring roll in a bowl that I made on Jason's show

today that I marinated some carrots in a fish sauce that I put on my spring roll in

a bowl,

and it made the entire Fox Studio smell like stinky fish.

But it's delicious,

and that's what I'm going to be having for dinner tonight with a glass of this white...

that I'll be having.

And then in the morning, I'm going to try the mushroom coffee so you can tune in.

We'll probably talk about it during the top two an hour or two, which is at 10.05 exactly.

And if you want to hear what I thought about the mushroom coffee, feel free to tune in tomorrow.

Otherwise, have a great weekend.

It's supposed to be super nice.

I'm very excited about that.

I am going to be sitting with my seed catalogs.

Planning for some of my seeds because I've got to get things planted.

And if you follow along,

you know that I garden in a very cold northern place that I only have about 50 to

60 days with the seeds to get them to do anything.

So I'm going to be getting my seeds going in the next couple of weeks.

If you have any early plants like early tomatoes that you recommend or anything

that you've tried and you want to pass that along,

I'm always open to new gardening ideas.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you for following along on Substack.

I started my Substack about a year and a half ago.

It is just a joy.

I love it.

I love spending Sunday mornings writing it.

I think about all of your faces and like what recipes I want to share.

And it really just gives me joy.

So thanks for following along.

I hope that you guys have a great night and we'll try and do Substacks again if you like it.

Thanks.

Bye.

Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe