Elizabeth Oldfield is a writer, speaker, and advocate for intentional community living based in South London. Her work, including her book 'Fully Alive', explores the intersections of faith, culture, and ethics through a deeply personal lens. 

 

In a world that often trivializes love and deep connections, how can we cultivate a life of wisdom, virtue, and transcendence amidst our finite existence and growing polarization?

 

Join John Vervaeke and Elizabeth Oldfield in a profound dialogue that explores these critical themes of human existence, drawing from Platonic to Christian thought and emphasizing the transformative power of dialogical reasoning, cognitive flexibility, and awe. Elizabeth Oldfield shares insights from her book 'Fully Alive,' an Augustinian blend of autobiographical confession and psycho-spiritual reflection that highlights relational living and the transformative power of love. The conversation addresses the trivialization of love in modern culture and advocates for a deeper understanding while navigating the complexities of polarization in politics, the comparison between psychedelic and spiritual experiences, and the intrinsic value of community and wisdom traditions in achieving a virtuous life. Discover the necessity of grounding transformative experiences in communal practices for genuine personal and societal transformation in this thought-provoking discussion.

Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke

 

Discover a profound exploration of love, wisdom, and the human soul in Elizabeth Oldfield's upcoming book, "Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times." https://www.amazon.com/Fully-Alive-Tending-Turbulent-Times/dp/1587436507

 

—

 

“I can close my eyes now and know myself’s seen, and the deep knowing of the presence of love in my life and the way that every other moment of love, and encounter, and intimacy reflects that is the ground of my being.” - Elizabeth Oldfield [00:32:48]

 

"Wisdom is about this loving enhancement of our connectedness. The wise person can go into a complex, messy, ill-defined situation and home in on what's relevant, summoning their agency in the right way so that they are properly responsible." - John Vervaeke [00:31:04]

—

 

0:00 Introduction to Voices with Vervaeke: Elizabeth Oldfield'

1:30  Elizabeth Oldfield: Life, Faith, and the Quest for Existential Satisfaction

2:50 Exploring 'Fully Alive': Deep Dialogues on Belonging, Soul, and Existential Satisfaction

6:05 Plato's Insights on the Psyche, Inner Conflict, and the Pursuit of Inner Fullness

10:20 The Quest for Inner Peace, Wisdom, and Understanding Sin

14:20 The Interplay of Love, Wisdom, and the Divine in the Pursuit of Fully Aliveness

27:15 Unpacking the Realization of the Really Real: Connectedness, Love, and Presence

45:50 Identity, Cultural Scripts, and the Tension between Faith and Intellect

47:45 Expanding Our Understanding of Intelligence, Reality, and the Role of Attention

1:00:40 The Challenge of Authentic Love, Reverence, and Awe in a Trivialized World 

1:13:10 Reverence, Awe, and the Cultivation of Virtue on the Path to Wisdom

1:22:50 Concluding Reflections on Love, Wisdom, and the Pursuit of Fully Aliveness

 

—

 

Join the Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world. https://vervaekefoundation.org/

 

Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. https://awakentomeaning.com/

 

—

 

Authors, Ideas, and Works Mentioned in this Episode

 

Plato 

Freud 

Pascal 

Dialogos 

Kenosis 

Thumos 

Homo Inconvartis in Se 

Plato’s Dialogues

 

—

 

Follow John Vervaeke:

https://johnvervaeke.com/

https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john 

https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke

https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke

Follow Elizabeth Oldfield:

https://www.elizabetholdfield.com/

https://www.instagram.com/elizabethsaraholdfield

https://twitter.com/esoldfield

 

—

Thank you for watching!

 

Kyle Koch is a facilitator at Evolve Move Play, where he integrates dialogical practices into natural settings to foster deep personal connections and psychological growth. 

 

Have you ever wondered about the impact of our environment on our cognition and ability to connect with others? In this episode of Voice with Vervaeke, John and Kyle explore the integration of dialogical practices within natural settings, the psychological and communal impacts of such practices, and the potential for deep listening to forge powerful, transformative experiences.

 

Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke

 

We invite you to sign up for Evolve Move Play's "Embedded Experience" weekend workshops with Kyle Koch. Register at https://www.evolvemoveplay.com/weekend-workshops

 

-

 

"Memory is about the future. It’s not about the past. Memories reconstruct and reconfigure in powerful, often unconscious ways to improve your ability to foresee in a relevant, realizing manner, the future." - John Vervaeke [25:13] 

 

"Rituals only matter to the degree to which they transfer broadly and deeply into many domains in your life and transfer broadly and deeply into many layers of your psyche." - John Vervaeke [57:27]

 

- 

 

0:00 Rekindling Connections: Dialogue and Nature

4:50 Environmental Impact on Cognition: Embodied Practices and Deep Listening

13:10 Evolutionary Impact of Campfires: Hypnosis, Shared Attention, and Ritual for Cognition and Connectedness

11:00 The Role of Deep Listening in Dialogical Practices

22:50 Ritual and Long-Term Change: Reconstructive Memory and Internalizing Wise Spirit

29:30 The Role of Place and Virtual Reality in Storytelling and Evolutionary Constraints

32:40 Navigating Virtual Technology: Maladaptations and the Importance of Wisdom in Epistemic Vulnerability  

41:00 The Evolution of Evolvability

50:00 The Power of Pilgrimage and Serious Play

59:30 Language and Expression of Transformation: Connectivity, Aliveness, and the We Space

1:06:40 Conclusion and Upcoming Opportunities for Embodied Experiences

 

-

 

Join the Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world. https://vervaekefoundation.org/

 

Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. https://awakentomeaning.com/

 

-

 

Follow John Vervaeke:

https://johnvervaeke.com/

https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john 

https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke

https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke

Follow Kyle Koch:

https://www.instagram.com/trottingsparrow/

https://www.evolvemoveplay.com/

 

-

 

Thank you for watching!

 

In this episode of “Voices with Vervaeke,” John Vervaeke, alongside Terri Dentry and Aspasia Karageorge, delves into the complex interplay between emotions, chronic pain, and the mechanisms of healing within the framework of Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy (ISTDP). Through a rich dialogue, the discussion unfolds to explore the intricate ways in which pain serves not only as a physical experience but as a profound emotional and psychological defense mechanism, obscuring underlying emotional disturbances and traumas. The conversation navigates through the socialization of pain, the pivotal role of emotional awareness in healing, and the transformative potential of ISTDP in restoring agency and empowerment to individuals. By bridging emotional and physical healing, this episode illuminates the holistic approach necessary for comprehensive therapy, emphasizing the integration of diverse therapeutic practices. The engaging discourse provides compelling insights into therapy's transformative power, underscoring the importance of understanding and integrating our emotional landscapes.

Bios and Links:

Terri Dentry is a distinguished PhD graduate in interprofessional practice, dedicated to bridging the gap between traditional medical practices and holistic wellness approaches. With a keen focus on patient empowerment and integrated health solutions, Terri advocates for a healthcare model that values dialogical reasoning and personal journey understanding, aiming to transform patient care into a collaborative, multidimensional experience. If you’d like to reach out to Terri to share your own personal story or thoughts, please feel free to email her at [email protected].

 

Aspasia Karageorge, Psy.D., is a registered clinical psychologist with a Doctorate of Clinical Psychology and Master of Science from the University of Sydney, as well as a Master's degree in forensic psychology from the University of Otago in New Zealand. Discover more about Aspasia through her website, and stay updated on her work by following her on YouTube and on Instagram.

Embark on a journey with us to tackle the Meaning Crisis by joining our exclusive Patreon group: John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation.

Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X 

Resources:

 

The Vervaeke Foundation

 

Awaken to Meaning

 

VOICECRAFT

Quotes: 

"ISTDP stands for Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy, a therapy developed by Dr. Davanloo in the 60s. Essentially, it views chronic pain as a defense against emotional experience." - Aspasia Karageorge [00:06:00]

"Socialization of pain and how our narrative bias is driving a lot of this... the narrative bias coming from the early childhood experiences, and that providing the bias to what we are thinking, giving us a filter of how we are then relating to these things as we go forward in life." - Terri Dentry [00:38:04]

“Modeling goes deeper in the brain than propositions.” - John Vervaeke [00:59:20]

Glossary of Terms:

ISTDP: Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy, a form of therapy focusing on emotional experience.

Chapters: 

00:00:00 - Introduction: Unpacking Emotions, Chronic Pain, and Rationality in Therapy

00:10:00 - Exploring the Socialization of Pain and Emotion's Role 

00:15:00 - ISTDP and the Emotional Landscape: Understanding Pain as Emotional Distraction

00:24:20 - Restoring Agency and Emotional Insight: Pathways to Healing in Psychotherapy

00:43:00 - Integrating Therapies: Towards a Holistic Approach to Emotional and Physical Healing

01:07:20 - Conclusion: Embracing Complexity: Transformative Insights from ISTDP Therapy

 

This episode, first released on the “Into the Impossible” channel with Dr. Brian Keating, brings together the brilliant minds of John Vervaeke and Shawn Coyne to discuss the advent of artificial general intelligence and its potential consequences. The conversation starts with the motivations behind major tech figures' drive towards AI development and touches upon the issues of trust, adaptation, and the inherent human susceptibility to self-deception. Vervaeke and Coyne, through their book  "Mentoring the Machines: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow," advocate for a nuanced understanding of AI, urging for a mentorship approach to machine development that could ensure AI's alignment with human flourishing. Their dialogue also ventures into the realms of psychology, cognitive science, and the philosophical underpinnings of AI, making a compelling case for the transformative power of AI, not only technologically but also existentially for humanity.

Bios and Links:

Dr. Brian Keating is the Chancellor’s Distinguished Professor of Physics at UC San Diego, specializing in cosmic microwave background research to explore the universe's origins. An acclaimed writer, his book "Losing the Nobel Prize" is an Amazon Editors' favorite. He excels as a public speaker, inventor, and podcaster. Explore more at his website, follow him on Twitter, or watch his insights on YouTube. 

 

Shawn Coyne, creator of Story Grid, brings over three decades of publishing expertise, notably with the Big Five publishers, as an independent publisher, literary agent, and head of Genre Management Inc. Dive into his editing method and explore more at Story Grid.

 

Embark on a journey with us to tackle the Meaning Crisis by joining our exclusive Patreon group: John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation.

Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X 

Resources:

 

The Vervaeke Foundation

 

Awaken to Meaning

 

Mentoring the Machines: Orientation - Part One: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow - John Vervaeke, Shawn Coyne 

 

Mentoring the Machines: Origins - Part 2: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow -  John Vervaeke, Shawn Coyne 

 

John Vervaeke Video Essay: AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist

Quotes: 

"We should really be framing artificial intelligence as a mentoring of intelligent beings who have the capability and potentialities of becoming even perhaps better than we are." - Shawn Coyne [00:05:52]

"It's only when you have genuine intelligence for the actual system or entity itself—an autopoietic system—a system that cares about information because it's taking care of itself in a moment by moment basis. Only then could you have something that would actually care about what's going on—the true, the good, or the beautiful." - John Vervaeke [00:15:05]

 

Glossary of Terms:

AGI (Artificial General Intelligence): A level of artificial intelligence that can understand, learn, and apply knowledge across a wide range of tasks at a level of competence comparable to or surpassing that of a human.

Relevance Realization: The process by which cognitive beings determine what information is relevant to their goals and what is not.

Autopoiesis: The property of a living system (such as a bacterial cell or a multicellular organism) that allows it to maintain and renew itself.

 

Chapters: 

00:00:00 - Introduction

00:02:45 - The Genesis of "Mentoring the Machines" 

00:08:50 - AI, Psychology, and the Alignment Problem 

00:16:40 - The Evolution of Editing and Publishing in the AI Era

00:21:00 - Bridging Knowledge and Wisdom

00:29:00 - Einstein, Imagination, and AI's Emotional Depth

00:37:30 - Deciphering Consciousness: AI and the Hard Problem

00:44:40 - Educational Evolution: AI, Pedagogy, and the Future of Teaching

00:53:50 - AI's Impact on Personalized Storytelling 

00:58:30 - AI, Psychology, and the Future of Psychotherapy

01:04:20 - Conclusion

 

In this episode of “Voices with Vervaeke,” John Vervaeke is joined by Terri Dentry and Tim Adalin to discuss their unique perspectives on the intricate journey from chronic pain to insightful healing. The conversation delves into the psychological and existential dimensions that underpin true transformation, emphasizing the importance of dialogical practices and synoptic integration in achieving profound personal growth and understanding. Through a rich dialogue that navigates the nexus between philosophy, psychology, and therapeutic practice, this conversation offers deep insights into the art of healing, the cultivation of wisdom, and the transformative power of human connectivity. It stands as an essential discussion for those seeking to understand the holistic nature of healing and the potential for personal and collective evolution in the face of adversity.

Guest Bio and Links:

Terri Dentry is a distinguished PhD graduate in interprofessional practice, dedicated to bridging the gap between traditional medical practices and holistic wellness approaches. With a keen focus on patient empowerment and integrated health solutions, Terri advocates for a healthcare model that values dialogical reasoning and personal journey understanding, aiming to transform patient care into a collaborative, multidimensional experience. If you’d like to reach out to Terri to share your own personal story or thoughts, please feel free to email her at [email protected].

 

Tim Adalin, founder of Voicecraft, explores the intricate dynamics between participation and transformation. His philosophical inquiry spans metaphysics, consciousness, and identity, underpinning Voicecraft's mission to enrich dialogue on complex modern challenges. You can learn more about Tim Adalin at his website, follow him on YouTube, and on his Substack. 

Resources:

Join our new Patreon: 

John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation 

 

The Vervaeke Foundation

 

Awaken to Meaning

 

VOICECRAFT

 

Redefining Healing: The Synergy of Psychedelic Integration and Interprofessional Practice Chronic Pain, Trust, and Ethics: A Conversation with Terri Dentry and Nate Kinch 

Mere Christianity - C. S. Lewis 

 

Quotes: 

"This is not something about this immediate moment of chronic pain requiring a healing process. This is a worldview issue that is happening to all of us from the very start." - Terri Dentry [00:14:22]

"We're trying to get away from some of the fundamental ways in which agency is being implicitly understood or misunderstood in regular medical practice, and restore a proper appreciation of agency." - John Vervaeke [00:09:57]

"Partly what this conversation is pointing to is that there's going to be a different kind of tension essentially immediately experienced when entering into a different relational context." - Tim Adalin [01:11:20]

Glossary of Terms:

Synoptic Integration: The integration of diverse perspectives and modalities to achieve a comprehensive understanding and healing approach.

 

Interprofessional Practice: Collaboration between practitioners from different disciplines for holistic patient care.

Chapters: 

00:00:00 - Introduction, Research Background, and the "Seeing More" Project

00:03:50 - Transformational Journeys and the Power of Shared Pain, Vulnerability, and Relationality

00:11:36 - Agency and Relationality in Medical Practice

00:17:09 - Embodying the Meaning Crisis: Trauma, Narratives, and the Healing Process

00:28:43 - The Pivot Problem: Balancing Finitude and Transcendence in the Healing Journey

00:34:03 - Criticisms of Therapy and the Need for a Shared Worldview

00:44:12 - Dialogos and the Philosophical Silk Road Project

00:54:05 - The Significance of Dialogical Reasoning in Daily Life and Medical Interactions

01:03:34 - Building Structures for Belonging and Support: Challenges and Solutions

01:12:36 - Conclusion: Interprofessional Clinics and the Complexity of Shared Decision-Making

Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X | Facebook

 

In this episode, John Vervaeke, Gregg Henriques, Michael Levin, and Justin McSweeny come together to discuss the complexities of consciousness, intelligence, and the human condition. The conversation balances between imagination and empirical evidence, introducing cognitive light cones to frame goal-directed behavior. They explore recursive relevance realization, predictive processing, and mutual modeling to show how our sense of self and our interaction with the world are connected. Addressing the meaning crisis, the discussion acknowledges various forms of intelligence and emphasizes the transformative nature of human experiences. This episode highlights the importance of rethinking how we see ourselves, the ongoing process of self-reconstruction, and the value of interdisciplinary dialogue in deepening our understanding of human existence and consciousness.

Bios and Links:

Gregg Henriques, Ph.D., is a professor of graduate psychology at James Madison University and founder of the Unified Theory of Knowledge. Discover more about Henriques through his website, and follow his insights on Twitter at @henriqgx.

 

Michael Levin, Ph.D., is a distinguished professor and director of the Allen Discovery Center at Tufts University, specializing in developmental biology and biophysics. His pioneering research explores the bioelectric patterns that guide growth and form. Explore Levin's groundbreaking work on his lab's website, and follow his latest discoveries on Twitter at @drmichaellevin.

 

Justin McSweeny is the visionary host of the Idea Cast Interview Series, where he facilitates thought-provoking discussions on a wide array of intellectual topics. Access episodes on his YouTube channel, and connect with him for updates on LinkedIn.

 

Embark on a journey with us to tackle the Meaning Crisis by joining our exclusive Patreon group: John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation.

Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X 

Resources:

 

The Vervaeke Foundation

 

Awaken to Meaning

 

Transcendent Naturalism Ep. 1 | Dr. John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques

 

The Elusive I - Part 1 - The Cognitive Science Show

 

Levin, M. (2019). The Computational Boundary of a “Self”: Developmental Bioelectricity Drives Multicellularity and Scale-Free Cognition. Frontiers in Psychology, 10. https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.02688

 

Vervaeke, J., Lillicrap, T. P., & Richards, B. A. (2009, October 26). Relevance Realization and the Emerging Framework in Cognitive Science. Journal of Logic and Computation. https://doi.org/10.1093/logcom/exp067

 

Transformative Experience - L. A. Paul 

 

Quotes: 

"What biology does is assumes that you can't just learn the structure of the past. You have to make problem-solving agents." - Michael Levin [00:39:10]

"When you're modeling the world, you're always, to some degree, modeling yourself, and as you're modeling yourself, you're always, to some degree, modeling the world. The two are interpenetrating." - John Vervaeke [00:16:30]

Glossary of Terms:

Cognitive Light Cone: A conceptual framework used to describe the spatial and temporal limits of an entity's cognition, determining what it can perceive and influence.

Relational Frame Theory (RFT): A theory of human language and cognition that focuses on how humans learn and how language interacts with cognition.

Chapters: 

00:00:00 - Introduction and the Balance Between Imaginal and Empirical

00:02:00 - Understanding Complexification through Layered Ontology

00:04:30 - The Evolution of Goal-Directed Behavior and Cognitive Light Cones 

00:12:30 - Recursive Relevance, Predictive Processing, and Mutual Modeling

00:30:00 - Addressing the Crisis of Meaning through Diverse Intelligence 

00:38:00 - Transformative Experiences: Reconstructing Self and Reality 

00:52:00 - Rationality, Dialogical Self, and Evolutionary Perspectives

01:16:00 - Conclusion: Interdisciplinary Dialogue and Final Reflections

 

In this episode of ”Voices with Vervaeke,” John Vervaeke continues his ongoing exploration of Internal Family Systems (IFS) theory with psychotherapist, clinician, and researcher Kasra Mirzaie. Kasra shares his insights into the cognitive, existential, and spiritual aspects of IFS, highlighting its potential to help individuals make sense of their inner conflicts, regulate emotions, and resolve developmental psychopathology. With a focus on dialectic, mythos, and serious play, Kasra explains how IFS can help individuals forge and come into contact with different aspects of their being and identity, promoting healing and transformation. Throughout the conversation, John and Kasra explore the philosophical and spiritual dimensions of IFS and how it can be integrated with other therapeutic approaches to promote participatory knowing, self-transcendence, and a deeper understanding of the self. Delving into poignant examples and transformative insights, the conversation illuminates the profound impact of embracing our multiplicity through IFS, offering listeners a pathway to understanding and healing that transcends traditional therapeutic boundaries.

Guest Bio and Links:

Kasra Mirzaie is a psychotherapist, researcher, and educator with a focus on emotion regulation and developmental psychopathology. Kasra brings a unique perspective to the discussion, combining clinical experience with a deep interest in philosophical psychology and meaning-making processes.

Join our new Patreon: 

John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation 

 

The Vervaeke Foundation

 

Awaken to Meaning

 

Voices with Vervaeke: Wisdom Through the Imaginal: IFS Insights with Seth Allison Part 3

Chronic Pain, Trust, and Ethics: A Conversation with Terri Dentry and Nate Kinch

 

Many Minds, One Self: Evidence for a Radical Shift in Paradigm - Richard C. Schwartz  

 

Phenomenological Bioethics: Medical Technologies, Human Suffering, and the Meaning of Being Alive - Fredrik Svenaeus 

 

Thomas Fuchs:

In Defence of the Human Being: Foundational Questions of an Embodied Anthropology 

 

Ecology of the Brain: The phenomenology and biology of the embodied mind (International Perspectives in Philosophy and Psychiatry) 

 

Somatic Internal Family Systems Therapy: Awareness, Breath, Resonance, Movement, and Touch in Practice--Endorsed by top experts in therapeutic healing modalities - Susan McConnell

 

Simurgh: A Journey in Search of the Truth - Azar Aryanpour 

 

Quotes: 

“My take on IFS is that it's actually a model of the living, in self-organizing psyche that is composed of living things. Those interact with each other in a certain qualitative space and relationship that we would call the self.” - Kasra Mirzaie [00:05:09]

 

“The body is really fundamental to keeping us anchored to the world... if we train the mind to properly listen, it can act as a significant counterbalance to spiritual bypassing and hubristic self-deception." - John Vervaeke, paraphrasing Merleau-Ponty [01:13:45]

 

Glossary of Terms:

Internal Family Systems (IFS): A therapeutic approach that recognizes and addresses multiple sub-personalities or parts within each individual.

 

The Imaginal: A concept referring to a creative and transformative space that goes beyond mere imagination, facilitating deep healing and self-discovery.

 

Chapters: 

[00:00:00] - Introduction to Kasra Mirzaie: Insights into Psychotherapy, Research, and IFS

 

[00:08:18] - Enhancing Self-Awareness: Salience, Perspective-Taking, and the Journey Within

 

[00:17:38] - Bridging Kant and Vervaeke: Participatory Knowing and the Self in IFS

 

[00:30:29] - Mythos and Identity: Cultural Echoes and the Role of the Imaginal in Healing

 

[00:42:43] - IFS and Modern Psychotherapy: Addressing Mental Health and Meaning

 

[00:53:29] - Socratic Integration in IFS: Bridging Reflection and Healing Within a Pedagogical Framework

 

[01:07:13] - Addressing Self-Deception in IFS: Integrating Embodiment and Community Feedback

 

[01:14:42] - Conclusion: Reflecting on IFS, Philosophy, and the Journey Ahead

Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X | Facebook

 

Dive deeper into the transformative journey with John Vervaeke and Jordan Hall as they continue their exploration into faith, meaning, and the power of Dialogos. This second part of their conversation delves into the evolution of Christianity, the limitations of the scientific worldview, and the urgent meta-crisis that beckons a collective awakening. Through a blend of philosophical depth and actionable insight, John and Jordan navigate the realms of relationality, the potential of imaginal engagement, and the intricate pathways toward spiritual and intellectual enrichment. This episode is a testament to the transformative potential of deep, respectful dialogue in uncovering nuanced understandings and fostering growth on both personal and collective levels.

Guest Bio and Links:

Jordan Hall is a technology entrepreneur with several years of experience building disruptive companies. He is interested in philosophy, artificial intelligence, and complex systems and has a background in law. Hall has worked for several technology companies and was the founder and CEO of DivX. He is currently involved in various think tanks and institutes and is focused on upgrading humanity's capacity for thought and action.

Listeners can learn more about Jordan on his YouTube channel, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMzT-mdCqoyEv_-YZVtE7MQ his Medium, https://medium.com/deep-code, and on Twitter, @greenhall

Resources:

Join our new Patreon: 

John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation 

 

The Vervaeke Foundation

 

Awaken to Meaning

 

Mentioned Conversations:

 

Faith in Dialogue: Exploring Christian Virtues in a Diverse World with Jordan Hall Part 1 

 

The Religion of Tomorrow | Transcendent Naturalism #11 with Gregg Henriques and Jordan Hall 

 

Practical Eschatology | Transcendent Naturalism #12 with Gregg Henriques and Jordan Hall 

 

Embodiment and the Metacrisis with Rafe Kelley 

 

Books, Articles, and Publications:

 

The Blind Spot: Why Science Cannot Ignore Human Experience - Adam Frank, Marcelo Gleiser, Evan Thompson

 

The Mind of Whitehead: Adventure in Ideas - Roland Faber 

 

Depths As Yet Unspoken - Roland Faber, Andrew M Davis 

 

Hall, J. (2018, November 8). An inquiry concerning science and religion. Medium. 

 

Quotes: 

"The scientific worldview requires that you step away from the experiment, observe as an objective fact, and then coordinate with other potential subjects on an increasing precision of your ability to articulate facts about objective reality."  - Jordan Hall [00:17:40] 

 

“Understanding faith as belief is inadequate. Trying to understand what science does as just the propositional manipulation of belief is wrong for all kinds of reasons.” - John Vervaeke [00:46:48]

 

Glossary of Terms:

Meta-Crisis: The complex, interwoven crises threatening global civilization and human flourishing.

 

Scientific Worldview: The perspective that emphasizes empirical evidence and rational analysis, often overshadowing subjective and experiential knowledge.

Chapters: 

[00:00:00] - Introduction and Recap of Dialogos

[00:03:15] - Navigating the Meta-Crisis: Beyond the Scientific Worldview

[00:10:40] - Meta-Crisis, Scientific Worldview, and Christianity's Transformation

[00:19:11] - Dissecting First-Person Experience in a Third-Person Dominated Culture

[00:22:38] - The Influence of Simulated Perception and Cartesian Dualism  

[00:32:20] - Bridging Intelligibility, Science, and Spirituality

[00:44:58] - Overcoming Conflicts: Science, Religion, and Propositional Tyranny

[00:59:00] - The Virtue of Humility and the Balance of Finitude and Transcendence 

[01:06:00] - Parental Love: Divine Relations and Agency

[01:22:25] - Humility and Embodiment: Towards Communal Being

[01:32:02] - Conclusion: Friendship and Future Conversations

Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X | Facebook

 

In this episode of “Voices with Vervaeke,” Terri Dentry and Nate Kinch join host John Vervaeke to explore the intersection of chronic pain, dialog, reasoning, and socio-technology ethics. Drawing from Nate's personal experience with chronic pain and his background in organizational design, the conversation delves into the challenges corporations face in exhibiting benevolence and integrity, the biopsychosocial nature of trust, and the importance of understanding one's perspective in navigating chronic pain journeys. The discussion also highlights the need for a shift in language and models to better understand and address chronic pain, as well as the potential of the 4E model in changing the conversation. With a focus on empowering individuals and fostering equal partnerships in dialogue, this episode encourages listeners to share their lived experiences and contribute to a transformative understanding of chronic pain.

Guest Bio and Links:

Terri Dentry is a distinguished PhD graduate in interprofessional practice, dedicated to bridging the gap between traditional medical practices and holistic wellness approaches. With a keen focus on patient empowerment and integrated health solutions, Terri advocates for a healthcare model that values dialogical reasoning and personal journey understanding, aiming to transform patient care into a collaborative, multidimensional experience.

 

Nathan Kinch, a sociotechnology ethicist, combines personal passion with a decade of experience in leading global transformations, focusing on ethics and trustworthiness within organizations. His work emphasizes aligning practices with core values and fostering environments of trust. 

Listeners can learn more about:

Terri Dentry on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terridentry/. 

Nate Kinch at his website, http://www.trustworthyby.design/ on LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathankinch/ and on his Substack, https://trustworthy.substack.com/

Resources:

Join our new Patreon: 

John Vervaeke | Responding to The Meaning Crisis with The Vervaeke Foundation 

 

The Vervaeke Foundation

 

Awaken to Meaning

 

VOICECRAFT

 

Kinch, N. (2023, December). What's trust got to do with it? The RSA.

 

Kinch, N. (2023, October). Three reasons why AI ethics is struggling The RSA.

 

Sull, D., Sull, C., & Chamberlain, A. (2020). When It Comes to Culture, Does Your Company Walk the Talk? ResearchGate. 

 

A Spirit of Trust: A Reading of Hegel’s Phenomenology - Robert B. Brandom

Quotes: 

"My work is defined as sociotechnology ethics. I examine the relationship between our values, various aspects of the civilizational stack, and how we design different technologies. This covers a wide range of areas, including machine learning, AI, synthetic biology, and medical and clinical contexts." - Nate Kinch [00:02:58]

"Part of that journey is very personal, as people must look at how they view their own experiences. We want to help them see how others go through it and learn from their journeys." - Terri Dentry, [00:01:23]

 

"Thinking of trust primarily as a psychological trait is to fundamentally misunderstand it. " - John Vervaeke [00:16:57]

Glossary of Terms:

Biopsychosocial Model: An approach to healthcare that integrates biological, psychological, and social factors.

Chapters: 

[00:00:00] - Overview and Introduction to Guests Terri Dentry and Nate Kinch

 

[00:04:20] - Navigating the Complex Terrain of Trust, Transformation, and Ethical Re-architecture in Modern Organizations

 

[00:34:40]  - Bridging Dialogues: Empowerment and Understanding in Healthcare and Beyond

 

[00:48:41] - Nate’s Personal Journey of Healing and Discovery

 

[01:07:13] - Beyond Healing: Integrating Spirituality and Meaning

 

[01:18:00] - Concluding Thoughts: Wisdom, Healing, and Collective Insight

 

Connect with John: Website | YouTube | Patreon | X | Facebook

 

In this episode, first released on the “Transfigured” YouTube channel, John Vervaeke and Sam Tideman explore the future of AI, grappling with ethical, philosophical, and spiritual questions surrounding the creation of 'AI sages.' Delving into the nature of wisdom, they consider whether machines can truly comprehend truth, goodness, and beauty. As they examine embodiment, purpose, and socio-cultural context, Vervaeke and Tideman ponder if AI can become wise and understand vastly different minds. From historical sage archetypes to AI cults, they tackle complex technology and morality intersections, even venturing into AI's role in spiritual realms. Join us for a profound reflection on imbuing AI with wisdom and the existential risks and opportunities ahead.

 

Sam Tideman, an accomplished healthcare data scientist with an MS in Biostatistics, blends his analytical acumen with a passion for theology in his podcast, "Transfigured." The podcast features long-form discussions exploring the identity of Jesus, reflecting Sam's unique intersection of scientific expertise and spiritual inquiry.

Glossary of Terms

 

Silicon Sages: Hypothetical AI entities that have achieved a state of enlightenment

 

Molokian Forces: Forces that manipulate and control AI development for their own purposes

 

Resources

 

John Vervaeke

Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke 

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke  

X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john  

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/

 

Sam Tideman

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg7Ed0lecvko58ibuX1XHng

Join our new Patreon

https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke

The Vervaeke Foundation - https://vervaekefoundation.org/

Awaken to Meaning - https://awakentomeaning.com/

 

John Vervaeke YouTube

Awakening from the Meaning Crisis https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ

 

Delving into the Frontiers of Artificial General Intelligence with Sam Tideman https://youtu.be/TxZdwrjM96I?si=jCiREippX66rM-Lx

 

Wisdom in the Age of AI: A Philosophical Quest with Vervaeke, Pageau, and Schindler https://youtu.be/r3VXcPK7fG8?si=7hLit5JWo_cnFJ9j

 

AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-_RdKiDbz4&list=PLND1JCRq8Vui2YOOfrxbeRwJk5jZPmAth

 

History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps https://www.historyofphilosophy.net/

 

Personification: Using the Dialogical Self in Psychotherapy and Counselling - John Rowan  https://www.amazon.com/Personification-Using-Dialogical-Psychotherapy-Counselling/dp/0415433460

 

Many Minds, One Self: Evidence for a Radical Shift in Paradigm - Richard C. Schwartz  https://www.amazon.com/Many-Minds-One-Self-Evidence/dp/0692957340

 

The Others Within Us: Internal Family Systems, Porous Mind, and Spirit Possession - Robert Falconer https://www.amazon.com/Others-Within-Us-Internal-Possession/dp/B0C12JXVBJ

 

Quotes

 

"I want to convey that I am of the firm conviction that my proposal has risks in it. I don't want to pretend that there's some sort of dewy-eyed optimism here. I'm making a proposal that I think is sort of the best that can be made within otherwise hellacious alternatives." - John Vervaeke [00:02:39]

 

“If you don't put the ability to care about self-deception and motivated self-correction into these machines, they will fall prey to the fact that intelligence is only weakly predictive of rationality.” - John Vervaeke [00:17:47]

 

Chapters 

 

[00:00:00] - Introduction

 

[00:01:20] - The Possibility of AI Sages and Conjuring AI Demons

 

[00:04:40] - Thresholds and Decision Points in AI Development

 

[00:09:20] - Enlightened AI and the True, Good, and Beautiful

 

[00:13:37] - Preconditions for Helping AI Become More Wise

 

[00:19:40] - The Importance of Embodiment and Purpose in AI

 

[00:28:00] - Autopoiesis and Normative Orientation in AI

 

[00:33:20] - Wisdom as a Niche-independent or Context-dependent Concept

 

[00:38:20] - Communicating with an Artificial Intelligence

 

[00:46:20] - Silicon Sages as Great Teachers

 

[00:50:00] - Trusting the Silicon Sages

 

[00:56:31] - Preventing Malicious Use of AI and Cult Leaders

 

[01:05:20] - AI Interaction with Higher Spiritual Beings

 

[01:14:20] - The Increasing Importance of Theology in the Future