Some podcast apps may not display links from our show notes properly, so we have included a list of links at the end of this description.

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Why do we assume romantic relationships are more important than friendships? In this episode, clinical psychologist Margaret Boucher has an illuminating conversation with NPR journalist Rhaina Cohen on the power of platonic partnerships and how the thrill, intimacy, and commitment we seek is often found through meaningful friendship.

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Sharing insights from her years of original reporting and social science research, Rhaina argues that we undermine romantic relationships by expecting too much of them and diminish friendships by expecting too little of them. At a time when many Americans are spending large stretches of their lives single, widowed, divorced, or feeling the effects of the "loneliness epidemic," Rhaina challenges us to ask what we want from our relationships—not just what we’re supposed to want—and helps us to examine how we define a fulfilling life.

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This episode was recorded during a live online event on July 31st, 2025. You can also watch it on the CIIS Public Programs YouTube channel. A transcript is available at ciis.edu/podcast. To find out more about CIIS and public programs like this one, visit our website ciis.edu and connect with us on social media @ciispubprograms.

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We hope that each episode of our podcast provides opportunities for growth, and that our listeners will use them as a starting point for further introspection. Many of the topics discussed on our podcast have the potential to bring up feelings and emotional responses. If you or someone you know is in need of mental health care and support, here are some resources to find immediate help and future healing:

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-Visit 988lifeline.org or text, call, or chat with The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline by dialing 988 from anywhere in the U.S. to be connected immediately with a trained counselor. Please note that 988 staff are required to take all action necessary to secure the safety of a caller and initiate emergency response with or without the caller’s consent if they are unwilling or unable to take action on their own behalf.

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-Visit thrivelifeline.org or text “THRIVE” to begin a conversation with a THRIVE Lifeline crisis responder 24/7/365, from anywhere: +1.313.662.8209. This confidential text line is available for individuals 18+ and is staffed by people in STEMM with marginalized identities.

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-Visit translifeline.org or call (877) 565-8860 in the U.S. or (877) 330-6366 in Canada to learn more and contact Trans Lifeline, who provides trans peer support divested from police.

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-Visit ciis.edu/ciis-in-the-world/counseling-clinics to learn more and schedule counseling sessions at one of our centers.

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-Find information about additional global helplines at befrienders.org.

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LINKS

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Podcast Transcripts: https://www.ciispod.com/

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California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) Website: https://www.ciis.edu/

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CIIS Public Programs YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/ciispublicprograms

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CIIS Public Programs Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ciispubprograms/

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Mental Health Care and Support Resources:

https://988lifeline.org/

https://thrivelifeline.org/

https://translifeline.org/

https://www.ciis.edu/ciis-in-the-world/counseling-clinics

https://befrienders.org/