This podcast reflects on my extensive and diverse work journey, which has been profoundly enriching. Yet, it transcends a mere work biography; it delves into an emotional journey shared. Work occupies a significant portion of our lives, yet we seldom reflect on how our experiences in the workplace impact and shape us.

Every time I recount this story to a live audience, I am surprised by how it evolves. The adage "you can't step into the same river twice" holds. My unconscious seems to guide me as I speak, causing me to omit certain details or emphasize aspects that typically escape my attention. Sometimes, I even find myself becoming emotional at specific points that resonate deeply. This story has a life of its own, continually revealing new insights about my past and present self as I revisit it.

We all have countless stories to tell about ourselves, and I've recounted my own tale, "what authored the author," numerous times, both in writing and in various settings. Interestingly, this particular narrative elicits a strong emotional response in people, a fact that initially caught me off guard. However, I've come to realize that this is precisely the essence of the story. It's not about me; rather, it serves as a mirror, reflecting something back to the reader. What it evokes, stirs, and ignites within you is significant; it prompts the question, "what authored you?"

Bio 

Simon Western is a leading academic and practitioner in coaching and leadership, and the author of several books, reports, and academic papers. He is the host of the Edgy Ideas Podcast and the author behind the Re-enchanting Our Worlds newsletter on Substack. Simon has also developed and led the organisation’s popular courses.  He is the founder of the Eco-Leadership Institute which runs coach training and leadership programmes and is a think-tank to create a more adaptive, ethical and impactful leadership approach for today's precarious-interdependent age.

Sudarshan and Shweta are key leadership figures in Bal Raksha Bharat (also known as Save the Children India). Sudarshan is CEO and Shweta is Head of Governance & Organisation Development.    

In this podcast, they generously share their thoughts and experiences. Their approach is inspiring and enlightening, and it aligns closely to the Eco-Leadership Institute approach. They focus on shifting power from the centre to the edges. Their humanitarian work aims to create capacity, but not only through raising funds from external resources. They see the recipients of the aid they provide as key to creating capacity, as the children and citizens they support are full of potential that they aim to resource. They also look for long term solutions and focus on moving away from crisis reactions,  and reliance on external funding, to build sustainable capacity through civic and state collaboration. They discuss some of their pioneering approaches to humanitarian aid and development and what is striking is the emphasis on deep caring and a holistic approach. Sudarshan and Shweta have to constantly adapt to the fast changing landscape. Key to their work is what we call LEDGE approaches - leadership from the edge, and they focus on bringing people from the edge to make their contribution heard and relevant. Whilst they face many challenges, they see their ecosystems are filled with resources. At the heart of their work is hope, fuelled by a collaborative and generous mindset.   

Sudarshan is a strong advocate of developing a learning culture in the workplace. He shares insights from Bal Raksha Bharat’s most recent annual ‘Knowledge & Learning Exchange Week’ which focussed on ‘failing intelligently’; to remove any blame culture and learn from both the successful and unsuccessful initiatives. India is a place of diversity and challenges for them, but from this podcast you can feel the power of their hope and the energy they have to create a good society.

Sudarshan Suchi is the Chief Executive Officer of Bal Raksha Bharat (also known as Save the Children India). As a staunch believer in participatory processes, Sudarshan believes in co-creation and inclusion of all voices within design and action. Passionate about building self-reliance and creating livelihood opportunities, he has himself dabbled in creating and promoting eco-friendly farming practices.

Although he graduated in Philosophy, Law and completed Masters in Participation Power and Social Change, Sudarshan admits that most of his education happened outside the classroom. Over the past three decades, he has held leadership positions with eminent organisations like Reliance Foundation, Reliance Life Sciences, and National Dairy Development Board (NDDB). He has also taught at Institute of Rural Management, Anand (IRMA) and is part of Academic Council of IIHMR’s Rural Management Program.

As CEO of BRB, Sudarshan believes in creating a living organisation that is built on its people and their ability to be vulnerable, embrace shortfalls productively and aim towards improvement. His vision is to build and grow the movement for child rights in India, wherein children have a voice and agency, and participate as active citizens of the country.

Shweta Malhotra is a seasoned professional with 17 years of dedicated service at Bal Raksha, Bharat (Save the Children India), currently serving as the Head of Governance & Organisation Development. In this role, she adeptly oversees the Board, CEO’s office, and plays a pivotal role in enhancing the organization’s adaptability in an ever-changing dynamic environment. A true advocate for fostering a human-centric culture, Shweta thrives on meaningful connections with people.

Her professional narrative includes a fascinating chapter as a freelance fashion designer, where she successfully ran her own label. Beyond her professional pursuits, she finds joy in travelling with her family and relishes the simple pleasures of snuggling up with a good book and a cup of coffee.

Chloe is co-director of Lighthouse Relief a small NGO set up 8 years ago in Greece to respond to the influx of more than 900,000 refugees arriving in Greece from Syria at that time.  Chloe shares her experience and the changing nature of the challenges they face. Initially, Greece was a very welcoming country, as Greek citizens personally and collectively identified with their own histories of forced migration in the 1920s. However, the wars in the Middle East that led to the refugee crisis coincided with the collapse of the Greek economy during the financial crisis, impoverishing many many Greeks. Rightwing politicians exploited this vulnerability and gained a stronger foothold in Greek politics.   

Today refugees and asylum seekers are much more diverse coming from many different countries, and often arriving in desperate and vulnerable conditions.  Chloe explains how their previous support strategies were being undermined through policy and law changes, such as restricting access for NGOs from entering refugee camps where they had been supporting children for the past 7 years, or preventing them from going onto beaches to support the rescue of asylum seekers in trouble at sea. 

Many organisations espouse being agile these days, and many could learn from small NGOs like Lighthouse Relief who pivot and adapt to the fast-changing conditions they have to work in.  Chloe shares how the NGO teams support each other to do this work and Simon and Chloe end the podcast reflecting on the importance of what it means to have a home.  This is an important and powerful podcast to begin 2024.

Often we question if the money we give to charity goes directly to the people impacted and who need the support.  Chloe's NGO is small but has a big impact on so many lives;  please give to support Chloe and the Lighthouse Relief team doing their vital work.

 You can donate here: www.lighthouserelief.org/donate

Bio: 

Chloe draws on her professional experiences in the arts, journalism, and at human rights organizations to run partnerships and advocacy for Lighthouse Relief. As Co-Director, she helps drive its strategic direction and navigate the changing humanitarian landscape. 

Previously, Chloe has written about art and cultural diplomacy for publications including The New York Times and served as United Nations correspondent for several media outlets, reporting through the lens of gender equality. Her engagement with refugees and the issues affecting them in Greece began while reporting from camps near the North Macedonian border in 2016. She holds a B.S. in Foreign Service from Georgetown University and a M.A. in International Affairs from Sciences Po, Paris. 

This podcast focuses on Richard Carter's work and life as a vicar at St Martin-in-the-field, a bustling church in Trafalgar Square London, known for its work on social justice and in particular its work with the homeless.  Richard and Simon met when Simon was experiencing a deep personal trauma and loss.  Richard became a very important spiritual support and friend during the early days of grief.  Previous to his work in London Richard spent 15 years in the Solomon Islands as a chaplain to, then member of, the Melanesian Brotherhood, an Anglican monastic community.  During this time Richard too experienced a deep traumatic loss when 7 brothers of his community who were working for peace were taken hostage and killed.  Richard and Simon discuss their response to their grief, highlighting the hope and grace that transcends grief, enabling new life to emerge. 

Richard shares the impact of the move from a quiet island in the Pacific Ocean with no electricity, to the heart of busy, noisy London.  Over the years he wondered about returning to a life of more silent prayer, yet realized that he had a calling to build community and offer stability through his work in London.  On a retreat, he found spiritual clarity and the words came to him… ‘The city is my monastery’.   Seeking community, it was homeless people, particularly international refugees who became an essential part of his community.  He founded the Nazareth Community to respond to people's spiritual need for community, silence and sanctuary and to offer service when living in the bustling city and the Nazareth Community welcomes members from all walks and experiences of life.  Richard shares the joys of multi-cultural London, his life is enriched by diversity, the nature found in London’s parks, and the gifts he receives from a life of service to others.

Get Richard's book here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Letters-Nazareth-Contemplative-Journey-Home/dp/1786224917

Richard Carter is Associate Vicar at St Martin’s where he has been working and living as a priest since 2006 on the edge of Trafalgar Square. Richard has special responsibility for the education and formation programme, pastoral care and outreach to those facing homelessness.  Richard is the founder of the Nazareth Community, whose members gather from everyday life to seek God in contemplation and to live compassionately and generously building a community of welcome on the edge of Trafalgar Square. He also started and coordinates the International Group which provides community and support for migrants and asylum seekers and those with no recourse to public funds.  He is the author of The City is My Monastery: A Contemporary Rule of Life, Canterbury Press and editor of Who is My Neighbour? The Global and Personal Challenge (SPCK, 2018). His latest book Letters from Nazareth: A Contemplative Journey Home (Canterbury Press 2023) are letters of encouragement for our times, and how contemplation and reflection lead to resolute action. Richard leads many retreats and quiet days and is a regular contributor to BBC Radio 4’s Daily Service. 

Before living in London Richard was a member of the Melanesian Brotherhood a simple community working for peace in the South Pacific. His experiences there are described in In Search of the Lost (Canterbury Press 2006), a moving first-hand account of loss and grief after the violent deaths of seven members of his religious order.

In this deeply insightful podcast, Niall shares findings and thoughts from his research and study of the conflict in Northern Ireland, published in his recent book Deniable Contact: Back-Channel Negotiation in Northern Ireland. Niall has spoken to key actors in the peace process, and in particular has sought to understand the conflict by seeking data from the back-channel negotiators, those courageous people who put their lives at risk and whose mediation work was done in secret and without acknowledgement. Niall found a rich store of historical evidence, including the private papers of key Irish Republican leaders, and the papers of Brendan Duddy, the intermediary who acted as the primary contact between the IRA and the British government on several occasions.  

Simon shares his experience of meeting Brendan Duddy after inviting him to a Faith in Leadership conference when working at the Tavistock Clinic. Brendan attended Tavistock group relations conferences and was able to utilise this learning in his mediation work, identifying the essential issues with great clarity. At great personal risk, Brendan worked to bridge the unbridgeable divide and bring two sides together in secret negotiations.  

Niall shares his thoughts on what learning can emerge from the Northern Irish peace process and warns about what cannot be generalised. This is a truly fascinating discussion.  

Get Niall's book here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deniable-Contact-Back-Channel-Negotiation-Northern/dp/0192894765

Niall Ó Dochartaigh is a Professor of Political Science and Sociology and Director of the MA in Public Policy at the University of Galway. He has published extensively on the Northern Ireland conflict, on peace negotiations and on territorial conflict. His publications include Civil Rights to Armalites: Derry and the Birth of the Irish Troubles and the co-edited books Political Violence in Context and Dynamics of Political Change in Ireland: Making and Breaking a Divided Island. His most recent book, Deniable Contact: Back-channel Negotiation in Northern Ireland, published by Oxford University Press in 2021, was awarded the Brian Farrell book prize of the Political Studies Association of Ireland and was shortlisted for the 27th Christopher Ewart-Biggs Literary Prize. 

Napoleon is back in the cinemas, and apparently, there are more movies made about him than any other person, he is third on the list of most books written about a person (behind Jesus and Hitler).

So what is the allure and what can we learn from this Mesianic leadership figure?   

To dig deep into these questions Jonathan Gosling and Stephanie Jones join me as guests, bringing their insights from their book on Napoleonic Leadership, a study of power which you can download from here www.napoleonic-leadership.com

This is a rich conversation, exploring ideas of charisma, power, and patronage, and asking questions about how certain contexts create the conditions for different leadership approaches.  We explore the object of desire and how charisma is not just about having an extrovert personality, but how a leader harnesses the desires of a nation to their own desires, and most importantly takes action. 

Jonathan reflects on this active element of leadership and how tactics and power, mixed with the drive to act were a big part of Napoleon's leadership approach.  If you've watched the movie, listen to the analysis and review if you are interested in leadership, this is a must-listen anyway.

Bios

Jonathan acts in an advisory capacity for leadership-related projects in commercial, governmental and activist organisations. He has been Professor of Leadership at renowned universities around the world; is a key-note speaker on leadership, power and change; is principal investigator for complex research projects; and coordinates Pelumbra’s growing portfolio of programs. His writing covers a spectrum from scholarly philosophical articles on ethics and wisdom, to applicable lessons drawn from historical leaders such as Napoleon Bonaparte and Horatio Nelson.

Jonathan was recently appointed as a Visiting Professor at the Bristol Leadership and Change Centre (BLCC) at the University of the West of England and runs his own consulting company, Pelumbra Ltd.

You can find out more about Jonathan at: www.jonathangosling.com

Associate Professor of Organizational Behavior at Maastricht School of Management, having graduated with a PhD from University College London, and a Bachelor’s degree (in History) from the London School of Economics. Dr Jones has authored over 25 full-length internationally-published books on business and management – three of them with Professor Jonathan Gosling. She teaches MBA students across the world, especially courses on leadership, culture and change. Her teaching locations include Kuwait, Egypt, Yemen, China, Vietnam, Peru, Surinam, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and several African countries. With a background managing businesses in recruitment, consulting, and training operations in China, India, the Middle East and Australia, Dr Jones gained extensive experience in the corporate sector before returning to academe a decade ago. She is still active in consulting and training. Dr Jones also supervises student theses, at Doctoral, Masters and Diploma levels, assessing and evaluating theses around the world. Napoleonic Leadership: A Study in Power is her third book with Professor Gosling, the others being Nelson’s Way: Leadership Lessons from the Great Commander (2005, published by Nicholas Brealey) and Key Concepts in Leadership (2012).

In this episode, the iconic and world-renowned management expert Henry Mintzberg shares his wisdom on issues of management, organisations and how society needs rebalancing. More than this, Henry generously reflects on his own working methods and approaches, which gives a fascinating insight into his success. 

 

When asked by Simon how he sees things that others don’t see, Henry points to his hero, the boy in the Hans Christian Anderson story who told the truth to the crowd that the emperor was naked. This is Henry’s perceptive gift, to see what others don’t see, or what they don’t want to see.

 

His first success was the book, 'The Nature of Managerial Work'. Henry observed what 5 CEOs actually did at work. This research found that the widely accepted idea that the manager's role was to plan, organise, coordinate & control, was false. By setting out what they actually did, Henry’s observations had a major impact on how we think about

management. Henry doesn't think he is particularly creative, nor is he a contrarian as some claim, he believes he is perceptive and reports what he sees. Much of Henry’s management education approach places observation at the heart of the work; Henry quotes the baseball coach Yogi Berra, who said, ‘You can observe a lot just by watching’.

Alongside his strength of perception, his other self-identified strength is to be able to reframe. He reframed strategy from being an exercise of future planning to learning and emergence, and he reframed management education as social learning.

 

Henry strongly challenges the MBA as “training the wrong people, in the wrong ways with the wrong consequences”. Henry believes management is a mixture of art, science and craft, and yet the MBA focuses only on the science. Challenged to address this deficit in

management education, Henry alongside colleague Jonathan Gosling and others, created the International Masters Program for Managers, which aimed to rethink management training, placing learning from practice, and learning from each other at the heart of this work.

Rebalancing society is Henry’s continuing passion, where he realises that we are stuck on thinking about two sectors, how the private and public work, but a vital third sector sits outside the other two, which he calls the plural sector. This is made up of those organisations, not private, or public i.e. NGOs, foundations, universities, charities, community groups, non-profits, etc. The plural sector is a vital part of society, and we are presently way out of balance. Henry’s latest book is titled Understanding Organisations…Finally!

This is a deeply insightful podcast that we are sure you will both learn from and enjoy!

Henry Mintzberg is a writer and educator, mostly about managing originations, developing managers, and rebalancing societies (his current focus). After receiving his doctorate from the MIT Sloan School of Management, he has made his professional home in the Desautels Faculty of Management at McGill University in Montreal, where he sits in the Cleghorn Chair of Management Studies, with extensive stints along the way in England and France. He has authored 21 books which have earned him 21 honorary degrees and an officership in the Order of Canada. He publishes a regular blog, a collection of which was published as Bedtime Stories for Managers. He co-founded the International Masters Program for Managers (impm.org) and the International Masters for Health Leadership (mcgill.ca/imhl) as well as CoachingOurselves.com, all novel initiatives for managers to learn together from their own experience. More of his work can be found on mintzberg.org.

Photo credit: Lisa Mintzberg (2019)

In this podcast, Nora Bateson shares her thinking about the ecology of communication, which is at the heart of her latest book 'Combining'. 

Nora shares her experience of being the daughter of Gregory Bateson the world-famous ecological thinker, and how he lived his ecology, rather than treat ecology and systems thinking as objects to study. Nora internalised this and explains how she works with people on her concept of Warm Data and Warm Data Labs, to practice this ecological way of being. Working organically with them, not to solve specific problems in a linear way, but to discover emergent and nuanced possibilities unknown to them at the start of their work together.   

This recording took place on Halloween and Nora shares readings from her new book relating to this time of year, her first reading is 'Lurking Monster' which expresses how the ghosts of industrialisation lurk in our speech and pervade our lifeworlds, entrapping us in cultural patterns of repetition. This is a rich and at times beautiful podcast, which we highly recommend you take your time to listen to when you have the space to feel as well as think. 

Nora Bateson is an award-winning filmmaker, research designer, writer, educator, and international lecturer, as well as President of the International Bateson Institute based in Sweden. She is the creator of the Warm Data theory and practices.  Nora’s work brings the fields of biology, cognition, art, anthropology, psychology, and information technology together into a study of the patterns in the ecology of living systems. 

In her latest second book Combining, Nora invites us into an ecology of communication where nothing stands alone, and every action sets off a chain of incalculable consequences. She challenges conventional fixes for our problems, highlighting the need to tackle issues at multiple levels, understand interdependence, and embrace ambiguity.

Get the book: https://www.amazon.com/Combining-Nora-Bateson/dp/1913743853

In this podcast, Professor Cary Cooper shares his extensive experience of working to create healthier and happier workplaces. Cary shares his belief that in times of rapid social change, organizational workplaces are more important than ever as sites that can provide healthy environments that support our well-being. Cary identifies key turning points that informed his work; firstly in the 1970s  stress was for the first time identified as a big challenge, and the response was to support the individual to cope with their stress better, e.g. stress management and responses such as today's mindfulness. In the 2008 financial crash and the subsequent 'job restructuring' when organizations stripped their workforce to the minimum, Cary observed a change in workplace responses when a manager said to him that the number one challenge he had was staff retention. This began a shift whereby organizations weren't so concerned with managing individual stress but realized they had to provide workplaces that offered healthy environments where employees could flourish, in order to ensure their well-being, get the best performance from them and to retain them.

Cary identifies the line manager as perhaps the key ingredient for a healthy and productive workplace. Most line managers are chosen for their technical ability, and yet their role is vital in terms of people management skills. Reflecting on the UK's focus on growth, he points to the lack of a policy that focuses on this key area of people management; improving this he believes would be vital to increase growth.

Cary reflects on his personal journey and shares that his life from an Eastern European Jewish working-class background story continues to impact on him,  citing the constant need to 'prove himself' as the driver of his success.

This is a wonderful podcast with one of the great figures of our generation, who has contributed to organizational health and well-being. 

Enjoy the listen!

Cary L. Cooper is the 50th Anniversary Professor of Organizational Psychology and Health at the Alliance Manchester Business School, University of Manchester. He is a founding President of the British Academy of Management, Immediate Past President of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development (CIPD), former President of RELATE and President of the Institute of Welfare. He was the Founding Editor of the Journal of Organizational Behavior, former Editor of the scholarly journal Stress and Health and is the Editor-in-Chief of the Wiley-Blackwell Encyclopaedia of Management, now in its’ 3rd Edition.

He has been an advisor to the World Health Organisation, ILO, and EU in the field of occupational health and wellbeing, was Chair of the Global Agenda Council on Chronic Disease of the World Economic Forum (2009-2010), then served for 5 years on the Global Agenda Council for mental health of the WEF, and was Chair of the Academy of Social Sciences 2009-2015. He was Chair of the Sunningdale Institute in the Cabinet Office and National School of Government 2005-2010. Professor Cooper is currently the Chair of the National Forum for Health & Wellbeing at Work (comprising 40 global companies e.g. BP, Microsoft, NHS Executive, UK government (wellbeing lead) , Rolls Royce, John Lewis Partnership, etc.). Professor Cooper is the author/editor of over 250 books in the field of occupational health psychology, workplace wellbeing, women at work and occupational stress. He was awarded the CBE by the Queen for his contributions to occupational health; and in 2014 he was awarded a Knighthood for his contribution to the social sciences.

This podcast came about in relation to Caroline and Simon’s personal reactions to the Barbie movie and in recognition that this movie is a 'cultural event' that demands some thought.

As Caroline says, 'this movie needs psychoanalysis': Freudians would say it's all about death, desire, and sexual difference. For anyone interested in object relations, themes of play, transitional spaces, and phenomena, aggression and pain make up the substance of the plot. For Caroline, a key part of the movie's pleasure is linked to its radical owning of the patriarchy as a fact, a given of contemporary society. It's the first time she can recall having seen this depicted on film in a mainstream movie in such a bold, incontrovertible way. This, in itself, makes the movie radical, she argues, despite its unevenness in parts. Caroline talks inspiringly about how her repeat viewings of the film revealed the extent of its play with ideas, and she shares her deep and thoughtful views on why this movie is important.

Simon watched the movie once and found himself both very impressed and also very troubled: while he admires the outing of the patriarchy that Caroline mentions, this doesn't outweigh his concern about the portrayal of men as degrading, and he found the depiction of seemingly binary differences between men and women troubling. For Simon, this potentially feeds into the right-wing populist agenda that, in turn, feeds off the gender and culture wars.

Caroline sees it a little differently, suggesting there are some subtle nuances built by director Greta Gerwig, especially in her play with the distinctive absence of genitalia in Barbie and Ken dolls. She suggests that the film centers this idea, the better to open up space to explore what non-binary, trans, and more fluid ideas of gender might be like. Similarly, Caroline notes that critics sometimes describe Barbieland as a matriarchy, but Gerwig actually does something novel here. There are no mothers in Barbieland, and no children either - in fact, the film goes to great lengths to show how maternal versions of the doll such as Midge have been discontinued, and narrator, Helen Mirren, plays with the idea of smashing associations between doll play and being a mother from the very beginning. The implication is that Barbieland is not so much a matriarchy as a woman-to-woman sociality, and this has important implications for how Gloria (America Ferrera) and Sasha (Ariana Greenblatt) are able to find one another afresh and to re-navigate their complex relationship.

Simon's Substack blog on the film which led to this podcast can be read here.

Caro Bainbridge is Emeritus Professor of Psychoanalysis and Culture and a former editor of Free Associations and of the film section at the International Journal of Psychoanalysis. She co-edits a book series on psychoanalysis and popular culture for Routledge. She's a Fellow of the RSA, a Founding Scholar of the British Psychoanalytic Council, Research Associate at the Freud Museum, London, and a member of ISPSO and Opus. Caro has recently co-founded the MiNDings consultancy (www.mindings.org), where she works in the organizational processes and leadership space. She is also a member of the Eco Leadership Institute, and she practices as an executive and personal coach. Outside work, she makes the most of living close to Another Place, an art installation on a beach that evokes edges and possibilities in equal measure.