Endurance Planet

On this episode of Ask The Coaches, with Lucho and guest coach/host Brock Armstrong we answer the following listener questions:

– The study that Lucho was talking about: Sprint and endurance power and ageing: an analysis of master athletic world records

I am training for a hilly 10k in 1 month and have been using the stairmill machine for cross training once or twice a week. My goal is sub 46 minutes.

For the first few months, I was just doing a 40 to 60-minute progression workout gradually and going from 96 steps per minute to 117 steps per minute.

I ran a 5k recently on the course that I will be racing on and I completed it in 22:49 which was an all-out effort (I collapsed at the end).

Since that, I switched to doing intervals on the stairmill (8 x 1 minute at 160spm with 1-minute recoveries at 80 spm). I am hoping this will help my vo2 max. I find this shorter workout significantly more mentally and physically challenging so am hoping it will translate to better fitness for those hills. However, I read online that it is bad for your joints and that it’s cheating to run on the stairmill. At 160 spm I feel like I have to run up the steps rather than fast walk. Is this ok or am I negating the benefits of the stairmill by running rather than speed walking up? Also is this interval-based approach more effective for building fitness than doing a long and steady progression?

Thank you for reading my long question!

The coaches say:

Hi Guys. I’m a running and triathlon coach, helping one of my customers train for the Vermont 100 in late July. He is 56 years old, has been using the MAF method since December, and we’ve seen big gains with his aerobic fitness. He’s now up to 3 and 5 hour long runs on Saturdays and Sundays and setting himself up for an awesome 100 miler.

Here is our question: During these long runs, and on race day, what is the appropriate time or distance to stop paying attention to heart rate and start running by feel?

The coaches say:

How does one estimate current marathon capability and set a realistic goal from data gathered from a recent VO2Max run test?

Metabolic Turn Points:

Test conducted on a treadmill at 1% grade. Started at 6.5 MPH increasing .5 mph every 2 minutes. Pooped out at 15 Minutes could only sustain 10 MPH for 1 minute. Test was preceded by thorough 15-minute warm-up and 5-minute recovery before test.

Other Data:

10 years ago my VO2Max was measured at essentially the same level, but I could run much faster then. In the last 10 Years, my 5K Times have slowed by 15%. I’ve been an active athlete for 45 years – Skiing at international level in teenage years to mid 20’s. Then local age group runner from 30s to present 61 years old.

The Exercise Physio Conducting the Test said my neuro-muscular system way underperforms my energy system as I had trouble running at the higher speeds. They advised that this particular test probably underestimated my Max HR and VO2Max. Using a more standard protocol of holding the speed steady and increasing the incline would probably recruit more muscle fibers and result in higher Max HR, VO2max and much higher Lactate Levels.

They suggested I compete at cycling instead of running as biking has less dynamic requirements compared to running. Probably due to ageing I have lost a lot of dynamic elasticity (spring) in connective tissues.

Thanks for the informative show.

The coaches say:

Love your podcast and can’t get enough of it. Lots of talk about different type of nutrition helping athletes to fuel better, but I think a big problem for some people is the rate glycogen store replenishment.

I have a theory that my body is not able to replenish the glycogen I used up and not able to maintain the pace after 3 to 4 hours into the events. I came across this topic and hope you can include it into one of the next shows, I.e https://youtu.be/eYb6_w5nusc

Background: 11x DCs, 1x 70.3 & 3x marathons.

The coaches say:

On this episode of Ask The Coaches, with Coach Lucho and guest coach/host Brock Armstrong, we answer the following listener questions:

The “reset your relationship with food” program that Brock talks about in the intro can be found at Weighless.Life.

I am doing my first (and only) Ironman distance triathlon in Hudson valley NY My goal is to complete it not race it.

My question is about fueling for the bike portion. I have run over 170 marathons (4:10 average) and one 50-mile and one 48-hour, so I set plan on what I eat and drink for a marathon.

I want to keep my nutrition the same for the run part of the race to make myself think it is just another marathon. The fall back will be Coke and pretzels.

For the bike, I want something different. Ideally, should I try to eat twice as many calories per hour on the bike? So 180 calories every 30 minutes? I did a 54-mile ride at race pace on the course and ate 630 calories in 3:30 hours (Alan Lim rice cakes and Scratch = 180 calories per hour). I was not hungry. At the end of the ride, a had a banana and 16 oz of Scratch (185 calories) and then ran 3-miles and it was fine.

Typically, I do shorter bike rides and don’t eat while riding so eating on the bike is something I need to work on. Do you think I should try and eat more than 180 calories per hour while riding?

My Garmin said I burned 2700 calories during a marathon and 1640 during the 54-mile ride. So does that mean I need less on the bike and 180 calories per hour is good for both the bike and run?

Thanks for any guidance. It is always great to hear you talk through different ways to look issues. Of course, it all depends.

The Coaches say:

Hi, I recently discovered your show and am absolutely hooked! Great information!

Background: I’m 43 years old and I’ve been in the Military for 22 years so I’m no stranger to doing things I don’t want to do out of necessity. Winning battles against the central governor is required training.

Anyway, that’s all over now…I started running in my late 30s and have continued more or less consistently for the past 6 years (I’m 43 now). While stationed in DC for a year I ran six 50Ks, two 50 mile races, the Army Ten Miler, and a 20-mile race (all in ten months). Returned home in may of 2014 and then ran the MN Voyageur 50 mile that summer. Lately, I’ve been battling some injuries (Plantar Fasciitis, calf problems), and have had to reduce volume. Just ran a 3:40 Marathon on May 19th.

My training now is anywhere from 25 to 50 miles a week, long runs 12-18 miles (this will increase significantly very soon as I’m training to run the Lean Horse 100). With a goal of sub 24hrs.

50k PR = 4:45 (2013)

Question: This happened at the 2013 Mesquite Canyon 50 miler (my 2nd ultra and first 50-miler)

There has been one instance where I believe I won the central governor battle but I have no clue as to how or why. To be clear I didn’t just deal with it and push through the pain and suffering…the pain and suffering and the urge to just lay down on the trail completely went away. I was at about mile 43 of the 2013 mesquite canyon 50 mile when it happened. Prior to this at mile 38 aid station I had been completely trashed, and severely dehydrated. I was at the point of a DNF but I sat at the aid station for 20 minutes and ate M&Ms and gummy worms and drank Gatorade until I felt like I could continue (very slowly). So I barely made it back up the mountain and felt like I was going to die the entire way…but at about mile 43 something changed in the way everything felt.

I suddenly felt a spring in my step and the pain went away. I soon was bounding down the trail like a dang mountain goat! I ran strong the last 7 miles and finished feeling ok. Although when I got in my car to drive to the hotel I felt horrible and I felt terrible for the rest of the night. But those last 7 miles on the trail were unreal! What was it? And how do I do it again? How do my muscles and entire body just “recover” in a few minutes like that. To me it seems like it has to me mental and not physical…it’s like my brain just told the “central governor” to give it up, he’s not stopping and flooded my system with endorphins or adrenaline.

Any experience like this from either of you? Or have you ever heard of this before?

The Coaches say:

Hi Lucho and Brock, first off, please give my love to Tawnee.

Thank you for the valuable resource to athletes you all provide through this Podcast!

My priority race this summer is the San Francisco Marathon. My goal is to run a 3:30-3:35, which puts me right around an 8 min pace. My long runs have ranged from 14-20 miles, and while I feel pretty good running them, I can’t seem to go much faster than a 9 min pace. My tempo runs and interval work suggests I am in the 3:35 neighborhood, but I just can’t get the speed I am looking for during the long run days.

I guess my question is what should my target pace for the long run be? I know I can’t expect to run them at race pace, but 9 min pace seems too slow. One thing to note is that I am running at altitude (6,500 fasl) and the marathon will be at sea level.

A little background: This will be my 7th or 8th marathon, my PR is a 3:33, but this is my first marathon back from having a baby 13 months ago. I would like to qualify for Boston but am beginning to wonder if I need to readjust my goals.

Thank you so much!

The Coaches say:

I hope you’re well!

I am a 21-year-old girl, from Cape Town South Africa. I just have a few questions to ask, or would just like some of your advice

I have been doing sport for most of my life, mostly lifesaving competitively, and marathon paddling/canoeing, both I in which I have represented my country a couple of times. I run a lot, and swim a lot too, for training. Last year, June 2017, I did my first half ironman with picking up cycling about 2 months before that. So I did a lot of emergency training for the bike, along with my swimming and running – however, I didn’t have a coach and so was not doing a lot at all, or at least not nearly as much as most triathletes I know would normally do.

After the Ironman, I began to get a sore (left) knee. It got progressively worse, until August when I actually had to stop running. I haven’t run since.

It has been diagnosed as patellar femoral pain syndrome, which is very broad and it does not seem to be getting much better at all. I am so frustrated, and almost always feeling down and upset, mostly in fear of never being able to run again. Being active is part of who I am, it makes me happy, and not being able to do anything really, really sucks. I have also spent so much money on physio/doc appointments over the last year. I know it is worth it, but it is not normal for it to take this long.

I have seen 2 physios, a biokineticist, 2 surgeons… I have been doing rehab exercises, mostly strengthening glutes, for months and months. There has been the slightest improvement, but walking up and down stairs is still quite sore, and any weight bearing movement on a slightly bent knee is painful.

Another thing I have to mention is I have amenorrhoea. For well over a year now. I feel like I have upped my energy intake and of course, lowered my energy expenditure due to my injury. I currently swim 2/3 times a week and gym upper body once or twice a week. Just to keep me sane. I know you will have some advice to give to me on this. I am struggling to get my period back, and I am not sure what I am doing wrong.

I am really losing hope. I’d really appreciate it if you have any advice for me, even if it is just a few tips on how to get over having such a long-term injury mentally.

Thanks so much and I hope you have a super day.

The Coaches say:

On this episode of Ask The Coaches, with Lucho and guest coach/host Brock Armstrong we answer the following listener questions:

— Lucho’s Twitter feed including pictures.

Hello – Haven’t heard Lucho nerd out on bike stuff in a while. So, here’s one for him – what do you think of the 650B all-road bike phenomenon? Are the days of skinny road tires on their way out? Curious on if anyone in the endurance planet family has considered/participated in a gravel race, such as Rebecca’s private Idaho, or Dirty Kanza? Thanks!

The coaches say:

I am a 48-year-old female age group trail runner who has been running various distance events including marathons and 50Ks during the last 5 years (prior to that I most ran road HMs).

I’ve been plagued by nagging tendonitis issues (hip flexors, piriformis, peroneal tendon, and plantar fasciitis on the right side) on and off for the last few years. It culminated in a rough spring in 2017 where I couldn’t run, but last summer I lost about 25 pounds, reduced my inflammation with a low carb paleo-ish diet, and along with a lot of PT managed to get back slowly, first to walking and then running, and finally building back up to training for distance events.

As I ramped up the mileage in preparation for a hilly 50K in March though, I was a bit less strict about diet and the injuries started coming back again with the increased mileage (the biggest week was 48 miles). The 50K itself was rough–cold, wet (rain, sleet, snow, wind), super muddy conditions that led to my feet being numb for the whole VERY LONG 8.5 h and cold and swelling induced nerve damage (no feeling in some of my toes for about a month).

I took a couple of weeks off (except for one 15K race) and have decided to go back to more strict paleo eating and am committing to MAF training for a while to try to deal with the chronic inflammation. So far the MAF training has been humbling (I can run most days but there are some days when it takes me 2 miles of mostly walking to get my heart rate into a range where I can run).

My question is can I still race every 2-4 weeks and still get the benefits of the MAF training, or am I basically shooting myself in the foot by doing any racing? There are a couple of race series I am participating in this year and I’d like to keep earning points! If so, is it better to race longer races at lower heart rate or shorter distances at higher heart rates?

As an example, my heart rate during the hilly 15K race I did two weeks ago (after only one week of MAF training) was about 22 bpm over MAF on average whereas the crazy muddy, windy, rainy, sleety 50K (prior to any MAF training) was about 10 bpm over MAF on average. My ultimate goal is to try to get to a 50 miler before I turn 50! Thanks for your help!

The coaches say:

Hi Brock and Lucho,

Love the podcast and although I miss Tawnee (please give her my best wishes), you guys are doing a great job and are fun to listen to. It’s also cool to hear from a fellow western Canadian! I’m hoping you can give me some guidance.

Quick background: 38yr old female; have been consistently exercising for 5-7hrs/week for 20 yrs- mostly running with a running group and doing weights a couple times/week. I’ve done several half marathons ranging from 1:50-2hrs finish time. I have an auto-immune disease and made the connection that the training I was doing was overstressing my body. Over the past 2 yrs, I’ve gotten away from training with a running club and have been focussing on the MAF approach. For the past 6 mo’s, I’ve been only doing MAF, hoping to build an aerobic base to build upon.

The good: I haven’t had any injuries, I am sleeping well and don’t feel exhausted after these slow jogs the way I did after some of my previous training runs. My MAF pace is super slow and barely improving (13-14min/mile pace) but I take a few fewer walk breaks and can breathe through my nose better than I could when I started.

The bad: I feel weak and scrawny and am not sure whether I should continue to devote this much time to MAF. I’m having to avoid all kinds of cool trails and beaches with hills nearby just because I know I won’t be able to keep my heart rate low. I miss running with friends. I miss the strong feeling I got from doing things like hills and weights.

My goals: To be fit and healthy without overstressing my body. To be able to compete in a 10-15k race a few times a year and not totally suck. To run with friends once every week or two (which doesn’t work when trying to control heart rate). To build back some muscle that I feel I’ve lost over the past couple years. side note – osteoporosis runs in the family and I’m trending towards becoming more skinny with age…

So I guess my big question for you whether you have some advice on how I might restructure my training to achieve my goals.

The coaches say:

My name is Dane and I am 31 years old. I’ve been racing triathlon for 7 years with the main focus on off-road/ Xterra. I have had great results over the years. My best race was winning the USAT Cross triathlon National championship 2017.

I have been self-coached from day one and most of my workouts come from a Friel book. I generally get in 3-4 runs a week (20ish miles) with at least 1 MAF run (6:20-6:40 pace) and 3-4 rides (80-110 miles) a week. I am a UPS Driver and get plenty of wind sprints and weighted 3rd-floor stair climbing in when delivering averaging 25k-30k steps a day.

I rarely get “recovery” workouts due to the demand of my job. My training volume is much lower than other top amateurs in the sport, however, I do feel like I’m still getting faster.

Should I be getting more active recovery workouts in or is my job doing the trick? Would upping my mileage/volume be beneficial for a “blue collar baller” like me?

The coaches say:

In this episode of Ask the Coaches, guest host Brock Armstrong joins Lucho to answer these questions.

Hey gentlemen, after listening to ATC #259 I started to think about myself and how I coach myself. I’ve been coaching for 15+ years and have read almost every book on training philosophy by every coach possible. Because my athletes seem to do so well, I trained myself too.

In the past I seemed to do pretty well too, but recently it appears that I am not performing as well as I like or should. After really looking deep into it, I think I am now “quitting” on myself far too frequently during workouts than in the past. So my question is when should a coach get a coach?

There are good and bad sides to being self-coached and I am curious as to your takes. On one side I know my body better than anyone so if I know my body isn’t feeling great I shouldn’t do that day’s hard work out and move it. However, that same knowledge can be a detriment as maybe I am not giving my body a chance that day after an extra warm up.

Also, Lucho I’ve heard you discuss you “reverse taper” in the past and would like to try it for my next marathon. Say mine is the 1st weekend in November, how would it look?

Thanks again for all you do for us regular athletes.

The coaches say:

Dear Brock and Lucho: First please pass along my best wishes to Tawnee. I’m a long time listener and my heart goes out to her and John.

My goal is to break 3 hours in the marathon. I come from a rugby and hockey background (living in Canada) and so even though I’ve been participating in endurance sports for 8 years I still carry a lot of muscle. I’m 5’5″ and weigh 152 lbs with about 8% body fat. I’ve done pretty well in my endurance racing, here are some relevant results:

2011 Boston marathon 3:01

I followed the Hanson Advanced Marathon program to run 3:02 in 2016 and loosely followed the Jack Daniels Blue plan for the 3:01 in Boston in 2011. I’m currently 44 years old. I have a busy life running a law firm, working about 50-60 hours a week and have two young kids. I have about 8-10 hours a week to train maximum.

My MAF pace is 7:12 per mile. I have a low max heart rate. I have had a few field tests and never got above 165 max heart rate. I find running at my MAF pace to be moderately difficult. My run all day pace is at 8 min/mile with a heart rate of 125 bpm.

With this background what would you recommend to get ready for my attempt to break 3 hours at the Scotiabank Toronto Marathon on October 21st? I’m doing a 70.3 in Muskoka on July 8th but don’t have any other races planned before the marathon in October. Should I follow Hanson’s model, Jack Daniels or another plan?

Thanks for your time and keep up the great work. Love the show. Shout out to Brock from Canada. Keep well eh.

The coaches say:

Hey everyone. After 4 months off due to sacral fracture, I have been base building with slow, easy miles all on dirt and grass for 1.5 months.

I want to get my Mona Lisa-esque stride back (Its a stride that’s a work of art but the beauty is in the eye of the runner, not for everyone).

Should I use grass strides or short dirt hills strides (both roughly 200m) once a week to start getting my stride back? Is there a benefit to one over the other like less impact going up a hill but requires greater push off?

And how long post-recovery should I test my MAF to see where it’s at so I can get back into training? 2 months of recovery running before MAF test? 3 months?

Thanks for every piece of information and more importantly, the comic relief you provide and the…

The coaches say:

HI there! I’m struggling with a training dilemma.  I simultaneously want to increase my speed while doubling my distance.

Specifically, I want to train for & race a marathon. The longest distance I’ve gone is the half-marathon. My time was 2:21. I’d like to complete a sub-4 marathon. Is this crazy talk? Most info I’ve come across says to focus on one or the other in order to avoid injury.

Thanks for your guidance!

The coaches say:

On this episode of Ask The Coaches, with Lucho and guest coach/host Brock Armstrong:

Background. I am 39, been running for 4 years mostly MAF-paced, but with a weekly tempo run of 8-10 miles. And for the main part, injury free. Until the last half year. After running a big PR trail 5k last summer, which included a very steep downhill section, I received ITBS (cause & effect?), which stayed with me for months. During that time, I couldn’t really run much and I kinda lost motivation. One fine day, inspiration returned, I signed up for a marathon, started training but my fitness was gone! With 19 weeks to go, I began upping the mileage again and slowly rebuilding. I reached 60 miles for the week (which I had been at prior to the ITB injury) and a 20-mile long run 4 weeks out when disaster struck in the form of a minor soleus injury… (I should mention, my training plan was approved by the physio). Those marathon aspirations were over.

I realized that 19 weeks for marathon training wasn’t ideal, but in order to jump-start training again, I needed to jump into it. Now, I want to do it again and do it properly. I have entered next year’s marathon, which is April 9, 2019. Right now, I’ve started running again, currently at 25 mpw over 3 runs and building up slowly.

How would you structure and periodize the coming year? How long for base, how long for long tempo work, how long for speedwork and what kind? How many long runs and what length; when and how often? How much volume and when? What kind of races would you include and when?

Oh, and here’s another question. Lucho has mentioned often that the long run is the key. Which of course it is. In context, it seemed that overall weekly mileage was not so important. However, my (prior) understanding was that long runs should not exceed a third of the weekly volume. Can you please clarify that. What is the function of high weekly mileage outside of the long run and how does the long run fit within it?

Or, now that I’m rebuilding again, the “10% rule?” I’ve often heard Lucho say, ‘listen to your body.’ Yet those injuries occurred out of the blue… What do you say? I’m listening…

The coaches say:

In the last 5km of a 70.3 and in the last 10-15km of an Ironman, I feel I need to shorten my run stride due to cramps or the feel cramps are coming.

I am getting crazy cramps in the top part of my hamstring (I suspect it is my semitendinosus), When I cramp, it feels like I have a ball of muscle just pop out and it stops me dead mid-stride and I carry on like a pork chop for half a minute trying to stretch it out and massage it back to normal. While I can handle the pain, I can’t handle the feeling of needing to slow down from 5min km pace to 5:30 km pace just to keep cramps at bay.

I never get these cramps in training, I run 30-32km long runs every two weeks and the following week my weekly long run is somewhere around 20-22km Average training weeks are between 15-20 hours a week.

During these races, I am taking a gel every 30min or so and a salt tablet every 30min or so. If I miss a gel, it is because I am drinking coke or good old fashion RedBull (yet to give me wings)….

Any help would be great.

The Coaches say:

Coaches, I have enjoyed Endurance Plant for several years and incorporated MAF training into my 2-man Race Across America (RAAM) in 2014. I credit the MAF method for a strong performance in that race.

I am a 55 yr old male, 5’9” and weigh 158lbs. I come from a road background and have participated in team RAAM six times. I recently purchased a mountain bike and ended up with a 2018 Leadville MTB 100 slot after finishing my first 100 mile Leadville qualifier and being selected in the post-race lottery.

I am looking for some advice regarding my prep for that race. My thought is to focus on MAF with my road bike for several months and in June start to incorporate multi-hour (6-8) tempo rides with intervals mixed in.

Most of that training will be on my road bike with one or two training rides each week on my MTB bike. With the exception of riding the MTB bike, that plan seemed to work for my 2014 RAAM. Do you think that the Leadville different enough from team RAAM that I need a different training plan?

I live in the Phoenix AZ area and my access to altitude and climbs is limited. I plan on arriving in Leadville about a week before the race to help with acclimatization.

My goal is to finish Leadville strong and earn the Leadville Buckle! Any advice would be appreciated.

The Coaches say:

I’d love for Lucho and Tawnee to compare/contrast/discuss how self-coached athletes can and should choose which approach to follow of the generally available like Daniels, McMillan, Hudson, MAF, etc.

The Coaches say: