Interior designer Ghislaine Viñas talks to Amy and Jaime about what it was like to grow up in apartheid South Africa, how she accidentally landed her first real interior design job, and how she’s too adventurous to work for anyone but herself. Plus, she's not scared of anything.

Images and more from our guest!

Clever is created, hosted and produced by Amy Devers and Jaime Derringer with music from El Ten Eleven and editing by Chris Modl.

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