BackTable Vascular & Interventional

Ep. 251 Race and AI in Radiology with Dr. Judy Gichoya


Listen Later

In this episode, Dr. Ally Baheti interviews interventional radiologist Dr. Judy Gichoya about her recent paper on artificial intelligence (AI) and the use of a deep learning model to recognize patients’ self-described racial identity, based on radiology images.


---


CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS


Medtronic Concerto

https://mobile.twitter.com/mdtvascular


Viz.ai

https://www.viz.ai/


---


EARN CME


Reflect on how this Podcast applies to your day-to-day and earn AMA PRA Category 1 CMEs: https://earnc.me/XIPsKR


---


SHOW NOTES


Dr. Gichoya had started by tackling the original problem of bias in diagnoses for chest X-rays, since it has always been difficult to tell whether something is a real diagnosis, or simply just a finding. Her team built a deep learning model; however, they saw that it did not work well for black patients. With further investigation, they discovered that their model had learned signals that correlated with self-identified race.


Intrigued by this finding, Dr. Gichoya and her team sought to identify the factors that the model used when making its race determination. Because AI is black box in nature, the methods by which the algorithm learns remains largely unknown. When tested in other imaging modalities (mammogram, chest CT, spine imaging), the model still showed high accuracy. Additionally, the model retained accuracy when different information was eliminated from the images (ex. age, disease distributions, bone densities). The model was also able to predict race in healthy patients, showing that it did not rely on patterns of disease prevalence in specific ethnic groups.


Next, we spoke about the implications of this research in developing risk scores. Deep learning models are able to look at factors that humans are not trained or able to see. Dr. Gichoya highlights the model’s potential effectiveness in predicting osteoarthritis risk in black patients. We also look at applications in opportunistic screening and information about social determinants of health. For example, most patients presenting with chest pain often get chest CTs. Dr. Gichoya thinks that these images can be used by the model to learn about patients’ environmental exposures, like pollution.


We finish the episode with a discussion on the changing landscape of IR and how AI can be used as an assistive technology. Interventional cardiologists are already using AI to dictate their procedural reports in real-time. In the interventional oncology space, AI could help integrate imaging and pathology findings to determine personalized treatment courses. All of these applications depend on researchers’ ability to market their findings to peers and the public, Dr. Gichoya gives tips on how to do this.


---


RESOURCES


AI recognition of patient race in medical imaging: a modelling study:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7500(22)00063-2/fulltext

...more
View all episodesView all episodes
Download on the App Store

BackTable Vascular & InterventionalBy BackTable

  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8

4.8

133 ratings


More shows like BackTable Vascular & Interventional

View all
Freakonomics Radio by Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher

Freakonomics Radio

32,076 Listeners

Behind The Knife: The Surgery Podcast by Behind The Knife: The Surgery Podcast

Behind The Knife: The Surgery Podcast

1,305 Listeners

Pivot by New York Magazine

Pivot

9,040 Listeners

How I Built This with Guy Raz by Guy Raz | Wondery

How I Built This with Guy Raz

30,256 Listeners

White Coat Investor Podcast by Dr. Jim Dahle of the White Coat Investor

White Coat Investor Podcast

2,421 Listeners

The Daily by The New York Times

The Daily

111,121 Listeners

The Indicator from Planet Money by NPR

The Indicator from Planet Money

9,526 Listeners

The Daily Show: Ears Edition by iHeartPodcasts and Paramount Podcasts

The Daily Show: Ears Edition

14,178 Listeners

Money Meets Medicine by Doctor Podcast Network, Jimmy Turner MD

Money Meets Medicine

217 Listeners

The Passive Income MD Podcast by Peter Kim, MD

The Passive Income MD Podcast

280 Listeners

The Kinked Wire by Society of Interventional Radiology

The Kinked Wire

6 Listeners

The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway by Vox Media Podcast Network

The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway

5,279 Listeners

BackTable MSK by BackTable

BackTable MSK

2 Listeners

Prof G Markets by Vox Media Podcast Network

Prof G Markets

971 Listeners

BackTable Tumor Board by BackTable Inc.

BackTable Tumor Board

0 Listeners