In this episode, Jesse and Lindsey talk through the desire to have competency and how this is expressed in the qualities of the Enneagram Type 5. Phil Vischer of The Holy Post and creator of VeggieTales joins the show and shares how the desire to be competent has shaped his story as well as his journey to tell the difference between being competent versus all-knowing. Everyone plays Your Worst Nightmare, where they discover if Phil has any secret fears.