A dialogue between Rupert Spira, a teacher of the direct path method of Advaita and an internationally acclaimed ceramic artist; and Henry Shukman, Zen teacher and award winning poet and writer.

Well known as influential spiritual teachers, both men have also had prestigious careers in the arts, and in this episode they discuss the intersection of art and spirituality.

Rupert and Henry consider such issues as the true purpose of art, narrative as a healing device, art as interruption of the subject object distinction, the darshan of Rembrandt, and how Chekov relates to the Vedantic witness.

Rupert and Henry also reflect on their own artistic careers, including the importance of mentors, finding one’s unique voice, and the relationship between discipline and spontaneity.

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Video version at: https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep131-art-spirituality-rupert-spira-henry-shukman

Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.

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Topics include:

00:00 - Intro

00:56 - Art and awakening

02:34 - Rupert Spira as a ceramic artist

03:03 - Henry Shukman as a poet and author

03:40 - Differences between Spira and Shukman

06:09 - The purpose of art

11:06 - What Henry discovered in poetry

19:07 - Intimacy and collapsing the subject-object distinction through art

25:40 - Tang Dynasty poetry and interrupting linearity

27:37 - Imagination vs conceptualisation

30:57 - Using concepts to point to the pre-conceptual

33:36 - Art as interruption and portal

35:53 - Narrative as a healing device

36:33 - The disinterested affection of great art

42:44 - Rembrandt’s darshan

44:24 - Irony and sympathy of the vedantic witness

47:00 - The most real and essential thing in life

50:14 - The power of apprenticeship in Rupert’s life

55:00 - Liberation from the teacher and finding your own voice

58:37 - Henry’s poetry apprenticeship

01:00:58 - Discipline and spontaneity

01:02:38 - Finding a teacher

01:05:20 - The death of Zen

01:07:20 - The real lineage

01:14:55 - The artistic process

01:17:26 - What makes effective art and an effective artist?

01:18:14 - The master’s eye view

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To find out more about Rupert Spira, visit:

- https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep124-art-of-awakening-rupert-spira

- https://rupertspira.com/

To find out more about Henry Shukman, visit:

- https://www.guruviking.com/search?q=shukman

- https://originallove.org/

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For more interviews, videos, and more visit:

- www.guruviking.com

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Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James