The podcast by project managers for project managers. Have you ever wondered why project team members decide to quit? Join us as we unravel the mysteries behind team turnover with HR expert Cindi Filer. Discover the pitfalls project managers should avoid to retain their team members, foster a thriving workplace environment, and optimize your most valuable resource: your people.

Table of Contents

03:22 … Why are People Quitting?05:13 … Survey: Three Reasons People Quit06:03 … Employee Engagement Categories08:14 … Loud Quitting10:31 … Importance of Leadership Training12:23 … What Impacts Employee Engagement?19:24 … Where to Start as a PM20:58 … Kevin and Kyle22:22 … Building Your Team Culture26:05 … Pitfalls to Avoid29:43 … Dealing with Pay Issues32:47 … Well-Being at Work35:15 … Contact Cindi36:18 … Closing

CINDI FILER: ...make sure you and your team is catching each other doing things that are positive, and then speaking those out to people.  Because I think encouragement is oxygen.  You’ve heard that.  And so it’s amazing when somebody’s leader calls them out for something that they’ve done well.  It’s amazing how much they feel grounded in that area.

WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I’m your host, Wendy Grounds, and with me is Bill Yates.  He is our seasoned project management expert.

Today we’re diving into a topic that’s at the forefront of every organization’s success.  We’re talking employee retention.  And together with our guest we’re going to unravel some of the complexities and insights into the importance of maintaining employee and team member retention.  Why do people quit their jobs?  Why do they quit project teams?  What are the top factors driving this trend?  We’re going to be exploring the nuances behind this phenomenon and hopefully answering some of those questions for you today.

BILL YATES:  Absolutely.  This is going to be a, we believe, a very helpful conversation.  We’ll be tackling the crucial question of how much of team engagement is attributable to the manager, and what advice do we have for the project manager who claims they don’t have time to focus on engagement, I’ve got a project to deliver.  Spoiler alert, there’s always time for strategies that boost team morale.

And of course we can’t ignore the pitfalls and mistakes that project managers should steer clear of to prevent turnover on their teams.  We’ll learn from the errors of others so we don’t have to repeat those mistakes ourselves.

WENDY GROUNDS:  We are honored today to have a distinguished guest with us in the studio.  We’re so excited.  We actually have a guest in the studio that we’re not sitting on Skype or Zoom.  We have Cindi Filer with us in the studio.

BILL YATES:  Yeah, Wendy, this is exciting to have Cindi in the studio with us.  By the way, we have been using a new studio.  It’s called Summer Street Productions.  It’s a local Kennesaw-based studio that has fantastic equipment and facilities.  We’re delighted to be in here, and super excited to be enjoying the quality and the production value they bring to us.  So thank you guys at Summer Street.

WENDY GROUNDS:  Cindi is a seasoned professional who has dedicated her career to help companies acquire and optimize their most valuable asset, their people.  She spent the early days of her career at Delta Airlines and Worldspan, a Delta company in the human resources space.  Twenty-nine years ago she founded Innovative Outsourcing, which is a staffing and recruiting firm dedicated to helping companies find and keep talented professionals, both part-time and full-time.  So stay tuned as we unravel the secrets to fostering a workplace where team members not only stay, but thrive.

Hi, Cindi.  Welcome to Manage This.  Thank you so much for joining us.

CINDI FILER:  Oh, I’m so glad to be here.  Thank you for asking.  Can’t wait to talk about some human resources stuff.

WENDY GROUNDS:  Yeah, it’s good to have an expert in the studio.  We’re so excited.

BILL YATES:  In the studio, yes.

CINDI FILER:  It’s nice to be in person.

BILL YATES:  Yes, yeah.

Why are People Quitting?

WENDY GROUNDS:  Yes, yes.  To start off with, why are people quitting their jobs?  What are some of the top factors that are causing people to leave their jobs?

CINDI FILER:  Yeah, it’s amazing how still today, you know, we had this great resignation several years ago, or even up until last year.  And the reason why people were leaving their jobs then was there was just so much opportunity.  So there was such a shortage of workers.  And when you have a shortage of workers, you really have a great opportunity and market for the employees to go looking; right?  And so there were some employers that were offering, you know, 20, 30, 40% more pay than other employers.  So we had a lot of people jumping ship really fast because many of those people were still working home remotely.  And when you work home remotely, you know, you can kind of unplug from one company and plug into another company, and your life really doesn’t change.

BILL YATES:  Your commute’s the same.

CINDI FILER:  Exactly.  You’re not losing your best friends.  You’re not missing the Friday lunches, those kind of things.  And so I think it just became very easy to switch jobs.  And because right now, well, in 2023, if you left your job and went to another company for a job, the average increase was about 12 to 15%.  If you stayed in your company and got a promotion, the average increase was 5 to 6%.  So basically they knew those numbers.  And so they decided, “Hey, in order to really increase my pay, I’m going to have to get out rather than move up in my own company,” which is unfortunate because we know as company owners it’s really, really important to keep talent within the company because it helps you grow the company.

BILL YATES:  It’s important for project managers, too.  Retention is so big.  I think of some of the projects I’ve worked on in the past, and I’d have a key team member either get plucked away from my team and put on another team.

CINDI FILER:  Right.

BILL YATES:  Or, you know, the same kind of thing happened that you were describing.  They left for a better opportunity.

Survey: Three Reasons People Quit

CINDI FILER:  Yeah, it’s amazing.  You know, there’s this survey that came out last year, and basically they said that in ‘21 and ‘22 there were three reasons people quit their jobs.  So 63% of those workers say that low pay was the reason.  So it wasn’t really low pay, but they could get higher pay.  No opportunities for advancement, 63%, meaning that they could advance better at a different company.  And feeling respected at work, which is amazing; 57% said they left because they didn’t feel respected at their jobs.

BILL YATES:  And that’s something that we can all have a part in.

CINDI FILER:  Absolutely.  And as leaders of people, we can all change that.  We may not be able to, as the leaders and maybe not the CEO, change the low pay or that opportunity.  But we can definitely change how they feel respected and like they’re part of something.  It’s amazing.

Employee Engagement Categories

BILL YATES:  All right, Cindi.  Let’s talk about retention, and let’s talk about employee engagement.  You’ve given presentations on this topic.  I’ve actually had the privilege of hearing you speak on this.  In my experience, I think back to project teams.  I think about project leaders and what can they influence and what can they not.  So much of what you share just really speaks to that.  But I want to start out with the three categories for the project manager to consider, the statistics.  And this was back to an employee engagement survey that you referenced in June of 2023 in the United States.  Talk a bit about those three categories and just let us know what those percentages are.

CINDI FILER:  Yeah.  This was actually done by the Gallup organization, and it kind of is a little bit stunning because they put people into three categories.  One is people are thriving at work.  So, well, let’s go back and talk about what is employee engagement.  You hear that word a lot, and a lot of us business owners kind of throw that thing around, and HR people.  But what does that really mean to you as a leader of people or as people that are working somewhere?  It basically means that I feel totally connected to my job.  Not only do I enjoy what I do, but I feel like what I do matters; right? 

And so I feel connected to the company, I feel connected to the work I do every day, and I feel connected to the people around me.  Surprisingly, only 31% say they are thriving at work.  And those are employees that really do feel that sense that we just talked about of high level of employee engagement.  I definitely feel connected.

And then the next category is quiet quitting, which is 52%.  So we’re saying 52% of our employees, they’re not actively pursuing getting out of here, but they are not totally engaged.  And so that is a huge number.  In Europe and overseas, that number is even bigger.  But for here in the United States, to have 52% of our workers be sitting somewhere thinking, I will do the minimum amount of my job to get by, and I’m not going to do anything more because I don’t really love the company.  I don’t really love what I’m doing.  I’m just kind of existing.  That’s better.

BILL YATES:  So they’re punching in and punching out.  But it’s like, I’m just going to give you the minimum, and my brain is sort of halfway here?

Loud Quitting

CINDI FILER:  Exactly.  You know, it might go from I’m halfway here to I have my opportunities open for other things, my ears open.  And then this is so interesting.  17% are loud quitting.  What the definition of that is that these employees are actually trying to undercut their employer.  I mean,